Hey everybody. Welcome to Orange Hatter. Today you'll be listening to part two of my conversation with Ella. I have two daughters and one of them used to give me her phone and say, please take it. I cannot control myself because I'll like, there will be a video that will catch my eye, and then two hours later I wake up from this hypnosis and realize that I had lost so much time. But it takes one video and one temptation, and she would literally throw her phone at me and she'd say, "Just take it."

And I, you, you can, sure, the apps let you put a, like a time setting so you don't use it, but then you can just say, you know, remind me later, or turn off for now. And so it, it really doesn't work. But you know, most people have seen the social dilemma. Most people are more aware of this now, which I think is a good, it's a good thing. And then there's also cool Bitcoin companies that are, um, Zebedee or ZBD, you can look up both of them, but they are kind of recognizing, look, we know Gen Z plays games and we're going to kind of integrate Bitcoin into this and lightning, and we understand that this is just a part of the Gen Z culture. And so we're going to try and again, work within that, work within their interest and, and make it better.

So are you on, on Zebedee? Is there a favorite game that you play that you can recommend?

No, I am on, I'm not a game person, but I am excited to kind of beta test their app and so I maybe I'll, I'll come back to you with a recommendation.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um, so you are a junior in college right now, but you are not in the us.

No, I'm not.

Tell, tell us a little bit more about that.

Sure. So currently I am in Paris at the moment, which I, I, as I was mentioning earlier, one of my favorite things to do is to wander and just kind of explore and walk and think. Um, I think thinking is really hard to do kind of in the culture that we have where we have content coming at us all the time. So I've been very grateful to be here, but I am doing a summer internship focused on energy and kind of renewable energy. It is, it is for a bank. And so, you know, that does go a little bit against Bitcoin, but I think a personal, um, balance I'm trying to find is kinda straddling the two worlds that we have of where I am and then, you know, Bitcoin in the future. But, um, it's been very interesting to learn more about energy and the renewable energy space. The bitcoin mining and energy rabbit hole is one I've started to fall down. And so, you know, I love connecting topics of what I'm interested in, whatever setting I'm in, whether that be in class and school and in work. You know, seeing the Bitcoin connections is something that I find fun.

Um, so you are in Paris and summer is halfway over. What is the biggest difference that you have noticed between, and we're gonna go back to Bitcoin a little bit, so between maybe the the French view of money and how they use their money versus how we use our money here and view our money.

So I'll start with the how question first. And this is something that only recently pretty much occurred to me, but in the US everyone uses a credit card. I never have cash with me in the US ever. Um, it's all credit card. And then when I was in China, it's all WeChat, it's all kind of QR code or Alipay. Here, it's a lot of cash. Card is, of course card is present, but it's I, I now actually have to have cash with me. And so I think that's very interesting, just from maybe the psychology perspective, when you think about how people are used to using money and then Bitcoin. So I'm, I'm reading a Progressives case for Bitcoin right now, which has been an incredible read. And the chapter I just read was all about intrinsic value and kind of what are the properties that you need for money and intrinsic value and the ability to hold money, and that money should be issued by the government are none of the requirements that the Fed, or not requirements, but anything that the Fed talks about. But it's all of the arguments that people originally have against Bitcoin. So I would, and this is all speculation, I really don't know how the French view Bitcoin, but if maybe they're just more used to holding the physical Euro or French Frank or I was also in Switzerland, so um, they were also very kind of cash focused as well there. Maybe they're less inclined to use Bitcoin because you can't hold it. So this is all speculation. That could be completely wrong, but I think just how people use their money, that's very interesting. And then the perception of. Bitcoin. I don't know from a French perspective. Um, however, I started the summer in Prague at the Bitcoin conference there, which was incredible, highly recommended or watching the, the sessions. And I think Europe just generally is way more ahead of the US in terms of Bitcoin. I think the first Bitcoin ETF was started in Paris. So I guess that's a French perspective. But just in terms of regulations and just acceptance of crypto or Bitcoin, I think is more ahead generally on the whole in Europe than it is in the US.

I read, um, a book called The Psychology of Money, and there's definitely a different perspective from this, the mindset of the spender when you hold physical cash and you are having to hand it to somebody, count it out and hand it to somebody else, versus the swipe of a card and everything is just kind of abstract and unreal.

Yeah, actually that's such a good point. So maybe, maybe the French are more inclined to adopt Bitcoin because they, they understand the value of money more. But yes, that was, that's a great book as well.

Yeah, that was really cool. So tell me more about Prague. You were there and you were a speaker and I don't know how much you were able to kind of mingle off the stage. What was your, the best thing that you learned from there that surprised you?

Yes. So unfortunately my mingling was not as, um, much as I had hoped. There were just some delays getting to Prague physically. But I think any time you can be surrounded by Bitcoiners is just amazing. I think you nev you always, after being with Bitcoiners, you leave feeling more energized. Um, And just, you know, let's, let's go, let's get on the mission. So it was great. Something that was really cool that I just had never considered that I learned while I was there came from the European Bitcoiners' group and something that they're working on is translating Bitcoin, um, knowledge and information. And I, I've completely taken for granted all of the Bitcoin knowledge and information that I have because I speak English and a lot of it's coming from the U.S.. So that was something that I, I really didn't think about. But I loved learning about what they're doing. So, so it was really great. But, um, to go back to the start of your question, yes, I was there for Generation Bitcoin, which is a group of Gen Z Bitcoiners who are really on a mission to try and bring Bitcoin education to Gen Z and really inspire them to be a part of the Bitcoin space and, um, grow it and innovate in it because they will inherit Bitcoin, um, moving forward.

So let's talk more about the GenZ project. So you are one of the four leaders in the group. What is your role and what is the approach that you guys have for carrying out the mission that you have?

Yes, absolutely. So the three co-founders are Arsh Molu, Ishaana Misra, and Autumn Domingo. And then I am very lucky to now be a part of the group, um, but I'm the fourth. And so I am in charge of projects. And so one project that we are just starting is called the Bitcoin University Guide. And so I'll preface by saying the whole reason for the founding of this group is to really emphasize the fact that Gen Z is kind of Bitcoin's future. That it's important for students to feel encouraged to embrace Bitcoin, where their world is changing a lot, but Bitcoin is kind of hope and that Bitcoin is for everyone. So this is really where the Bitcoin University Guide comes in. A lot of students when they're applying to college or when they're first in college, even though they, they say that you can kind of go in undeclared or you don't need to know what you're gonna do or you don't know, you don't need to know what you're going to study. In order to get into college, you have to write a lot of essays and you have to be persuasive about some topic that you're interested in. And so I think we're funneled into, you know, you do need to figure out what you wanna study and what you wanna do kind of early on. And so Bitcoin, I'd say is mostly not marketed, but marketed for math or computer science students. And so if you're not studying math or you're not studying for computer science, maybe you're less inclined to give any of your time to Bitcoin. 'Cause everyone's, everyone's busy. No one has lots of time to listen to a two hour podcast or even know which two Hour podcast is the best for them to listen to. So this guide is for those students. So let's say you are a philosophy major and you're learning about different philosophers and what they define property as. And so then we then talk about those same philosophers and those ideas, but in the context of Bitcoin. So this guide is, it's not super in depth. It's just supposed to be enough that it gives you a taste and hopefully sparks your interest in Bitcoin. So that's one way. And then we're also going to, we're really trying to build out the foundation right now and kind of revamp it, but we'll hold Twitter spaces as well. We're working with another group called the Bitcoin Student Clubs Network, which is all about how do we support each other and bringing Bitcoin to campuses. And we also are almost about to be an official nonprofit. So I think all the papers are filed. We're just waiting on the final, um, the final confirmations. So hopefully we're just trying to reach students wherever they are and, you know, bring them into the space.

Thank you for listening. Did you hear anything in our conversation today that you resonated with? Were you able to identify with some of the feelings that Ella had? If so, I would love to hear from you. Please send your questions or comments to my email Tali@orangehatter.com. I would love to hear from you. Come back tomorrow and hear the rest of our conversation. Thank you. See you soon. Bye-bye.