Steve Palmer [00:00:00]:

All right, Steve Palmer here, lawyer talk off the record, on the air. What's the appeal? Well, what's the appeal? Well, we talk about all things appellate. I know it sounds boring, but people actually are liking it, they're digging it. I'm getting lots of questions. If you've got a question, by the way, lawyertalkpodcast.com or shoot it in a, or leave it in a comment in the socials. Either way, today I'm going to talk about a phenomenon I've seen. Maybe phenomenon is not the right word, but it involves what I'll call unique criminal convictions. And by unique I mean maybe it's a SBS case.

Steve Palmer [00:00:29]:

What is sbs? It stands for shaken Baby syndrome case. Or maybe it's the worst of the worst type of case, like a child sex case. These are horrible cases, folks, and nobody wants to talk about this stuff out loud, but I am because I do this for a living. I defend lots of folks charged with these types of crimes, both at the trial and the appellate levels. And what makes them unique. Here's what makes these unique. First and foremost, there are, I don't, I'm not a statistician, but I have watched a few things over the years and there are lots and lots of folks, I think, who have been convicted on very, very questionable evidence in these types of cases. Doesn't mean that everybody accused these crimes innocent certainly doesn't mean that everybody accused of these types of crimes is guilty.

Steve Palmer [00:01:10]:

But I have seen this, I have seen lots of folks, and by lots, maybe, you know, a handful in my career of the appellate work I've done who have been convicted of these types of crimes and who I honestly and genuinely, genuinely believe are innocent. And, and the family calls me and says our loved one, our husband, our son has been convicted of one of these horrible crimes. And here's what is often the case. They have hired an attorney, maybe a good lawyer, a lawyer who knows how to try cases, who knows the game. But maybe it's a small town and the lawyer just didn't have the Rolodex or the playbook to handle the case and get the proper expert witnesses involved, do the proper investigation with outside sources, get the proper help from the national groups that help defend these types of cases and the individuals convicted. And they call me for the appeal. This sets us on the appellate path, both ladders that I've talked about, both a post conviction ladder and the direct appeal ladder. And immediately upon getting these cases, what I do is I read the record, I talk to the family, I, I Almost always employ my investigator to talk to the family and some of the witnesses and we start contacting experts right away.

Steve Palmer [00:02:29]:

I'm talking day one and I know what you're thinking. You've watched the other episodes of what's the Appeal? And you're thinking, well, wait a minute, Palmer told us before that we can't call witnesses or present evidence on direct appeal. And you're right, you can't. But you can on the post conviction side. And here's the problem. If you don't identify and retain these experts right away, the clock is ticking and you may lose the opportunity to do it. Now, you have one year from the date in Ohio anyway that the transcript is filed in the direct appeal. It doesn't make any sense, but you have about a year, we'll call it maybe a little bit more to file a post conviction petition.

Steve Palmer [00:03:05]:

And I start working on that immediately while I'm working on the direct appeal. And that means I get the medical records, maybe, maybe records for the first time because the trial attorney didn't do it for one reason or another. And I get the psychological records, I get the school records, I get all the records that I would normally get if I were defending the case at trial. And if there are, if it's a unfortunate tragedy where a child is dead, we get the birth records, we go all the way back and we start consulting with experts. We get this information to experts and we get opinions. Because you have to do this if you, particularly if experts weren't called at trial and you have to do it in order to file and perfect your post conviction petition in Ohio, and this is true in other states. I'm working on a case in Virginia right now where they don't call it post conviction in Virginia, they call it habeas corpus. And we have already engaged and sent off information to our experts to try to get opinions while we're working on the direct appeal.

Steve Palmer [00:04:03]:

And it doesn't mean you ignore the direct appeal or don't focus on it. You have to, but you have to focus on these other things. Here's the lesson to take from this. If you think that you can wait on these experts and just do the direct appeal and think that's going to be enough, don't. Because if you don't do this stuff on direct appeal and you've got a post conviction deadline in two months, you don't have time, you don't have time to get the opinions back, you don't have time to get the records, you don't have time to build the record that you need, the foundation you need to try to undo a wrongful conviction. So what's the takeaway from all this? Talk to a lawyer who understands how to appeal and defend these cases, really at all levels. Because the skill set that we have working on these cases at the trial court level applies at the appellate court level, too. The same list of experts, the same playbook that we use.

Steve Palmer [00:04:58]:

Maybe you're thinking, well, we got the wrong lawyer at trial. You don't have to make that same mistake twice. So what's the appeal? It's hard to talk about these kind of cases, obviously. And they get, you know, people don't like it because they're tragic on every level. But if you're in that spot and maybe your loved one is not guilty and maybe you want to appeal that conviction, make sure you identify somebody who has the playbook. If you've got questions you want me to answer something on what's the appeal? Or elsewhere, just go to lawyertalkpodcast.com you happen to need help on a case like this? We work all over the place. Palmer Legal Defense. Check us out.

Steve Palmer [00:05:35]:

Lawyer talk off the record, on the air. Till next time.