1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,069 Yeah, it kind of goes back to the the build it and forget about it like 2 00:00:04,769 --> 00:00:08,949 The email list, like your website and your email list go hand in hand. 3 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:13,170 You can't, you know, build the website, never update it, and expect 4 00:00:13,170 --> 00:00:15,465 people to Shop on the website. 5 00:00:15,824 --> 00:00:22,885 Um, and you can expect people to use that 20% off or whatever you're enticing 6 00:00:22,885 --> 00:00:24,595 them to do through your email list. 7 00:00:25,114 --> 00:00:30,054 If you're not going to be, um, popping up, you know, at least I like to say 8 00:00:30,054 --> 00:00:34,795 twice, uh, in the month and saying, Hey, this is something new with our 9 00:00:34,795 --> 00:00:38,434 brand or, Hey, how are things going with you through your email list. 10 00:00:38,710 --> 00:00:43,469 Like, you can't just forget about the people on your email list, um, you 11 00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:48,469 want to make them feel like they're valued because, you know, people, 12 00:00:48,710 --> 00:00:52,579 like, businesses are made up of people so if you're not valuing those 13 00:00:52,579 --> 00:00:56,469 people on your email list, valuing the people going to your website, then 14 00:00:56,469 --> 00:01:00,719 you can't expect to make sales, um, it just, it doesn't work that way. 15 00:01:06,413 --> 00:01:11,103 Welcome to the e commerce podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 16 00:01:11,113 --> 00:01:16,553 Now, the e commerce podcast is all about helping you deliver e commerce well. 17 00:01:16,583 --> 00:01:22,443 And to help us do just that, today, I'm chatting with Diana Simpson from Simpsons 18 00:01:22,443 --> 00:01:28,413 Web Design about maximizing e commerce sales through strategic website design. 19 00:01:28,413 --> 00:01:30,013 We're getting back to the basics. 20 00:01:30,013 --> 00:01:32,373 We're talking about website design. 21 00:01:32,373 --> 00:01:32,913 But before... 22 00:01:33,433 --> 00:01:35,913 We dive into our conversation. 23 00:01:36,133 --> 00:01:40,393 Let me share with you a podcast pick, a previous episode that 24 00:01:40,393 --> 00:01:42,093 I think you're going to enjoy. 25 00:01:42,443 --> 00:01:47,973 Check out my amazing episode with the wonderful Reece Spikerman on how to 26 00:01:47,973 --> 00:01:50,683 create a killer about page that converts. 27 00:01:50,983 --> 00:01:52,493 You're not going to want to miss that conversation. 28 00:01:52,493 --> 00:01:53,933 Reece is an absolute legend. 29 00:01:54,293 --> 00:01:57,723 Uh, and then how to get traffic that buys to your website by 30 00:01:57,723 --> 00:02:00,463 another legend, uh, Chloe Thomas. 31 00:02:00,493 --> 00:02:01,893 Oh, the women are killing it today. 32 00:02:01,923 --> 00:02:02,413 Oh yeah. 33 00:02:02,893 --> 00:02:05,223 So, check out those podcast picks. 34 00:02:05,223 --> 00:02:09,653 You can access our podcast picks and our entire podcast archive for free 35 00:02:09,963 --> 00:02:12,563 on our website at ecommercepodcast. 36 00:02:12,793 --> 00:02:13,273 net. 37 00:02:13,573 --> 00:02:17,543 Plus, if you sign up for our newsletter, we'll send you the links to the podcast 38 00:02:17,573 --> 00:02:21,523 picks along with the notes and the links from our conversations all straight 39 00:02:21,523 --> 00:02:23,603 to your inbox at no cost to you. 40 00:02:24,003 --> 00:02:27,203 No spam, no messing, no hassle, it's just amazing stuff, so 41 00:02:27,203 --> 00:02:29,433 make sure you sign up for that. 42 00:02:29,863 --> 00:02:33,223 Now, I'm sure you've come across a bunch of folks stuck with their e 43 00:02:33,223 --> 00:02:37,383 commerce website, or maybe they've just got siloed into working on 44 00:02:37,393 --> 00:02:39,743 one or two areas of their business. 45 00:02:40,103 --> 00:02:41,883 and miss the big picture? 46 00:02:42,013 --> 00:02:46,913 Well, enter eCommerce Cohort to solve this particular problem. 47 00:02:47,203 --> 00:02:52,033 It's a lightweight membership group with guided monthly sprints that cycle 48 00:02:52,033 --> 00:02:54,463 through all the key areas of eCommerce. 49 00:02:55,193 --> 00:02:59,723 The sole purpose of Cohort is to provide you with clear, actionable jobs to 50 00:02:59,723 --> 00:03:03,793 be done, so you'll know what to work on with the support to get there. 51 00:03:03,793 --> 00:03:04,783 It done. 52 00:03:05,143 --> 00:03:08,413 So whether you are just starting out an e-commerce or if like me, you're a 53 00:03:08,413 --> 00:03:12,553 well established e-commerce, uh, or a bit of a dinosaur like me is probably a 54 00:03:12,553 --> 00:03:18,703 better way to put it, I encourage you to definitely check out eCommerce cohort.com. 55 00:03:18,783 --> 00:03:22,443 That's eCommerce cohort.com, or you can email me directly 56 00:03:22,443 --> 00:03:26,733 matt@ecommercepodcast.net with any questions and I'll try my 57 00:03:26,733 --> 00:03:28,173 level best to answer them for you. 58 00:03:29,543 --> 00:03:30,773 So, that's today's show sponsor. 59 00:03:30,773 --> 00:03:37,013 Let's talk about today's guest, Diana, a web designer for product based businesses 60 00:03:37,353 --> 00:03:39,903 who hails from the sunny south of Georgia. 61 00:03:40,233 --> 00:03:44,063 Now, when she's not on her tech grind, she's out and about soaking 62 00:03:44,063 --> 00:03:48,463 up the sun and sharing giggles with her sprightly toddler, who we may 63 00:03:48,463 --> 00:03:50,643 hear from during the conversation. 64 00:03:50,953 --> 00:03:51,953 Uh, oh yes. 65 00:03:52,503 --> 00:03:54,043 So, Diana, welcome to the show. 66 00:03:54,073 --> 00:03:54,873 Great to have you. 67 00:03:54,913 --> 00:03:56,053 How are we doing today? 68 00:03:57,263 --> 00:03:58,853 Thank you so much for having me, Matt. 69 00:03:58,893 --> 00:04:02,973 I am having an awesome day, uh, just happy to be here. 70 00:04:03,343 --> 00:04:09,233 I tune into your e commerce podcast, so super happy to be able to share some of 71 00:04:09,233 --> 00:04:12,133 my, uh, information with your listeners. 72 00:04:12,718 --> 00:04:16,258 Ah, wow, it's lovely to have a listener on the show, uh, and, 73 00:04:16,258 --> 00:04:17,578 uh, and talk to you, good self. 74 00:04:17,578 --> 00:04:21,288 Now, uh, you, it said in the bio that you're from sunny Georgia, 75 00:04:21,308 --> 00:04:24,048 but actually you're in Florida today, uh, is what you're saying. 76 00:04:24,058 --> 00:04:25,388 Are you down there on vacation? 77 00:04:26,618 --> 00:04:30,608 Yes, I am down here on Vacation slash work trip. 78 00:04:30,668 --> 00:04:34,478 Uh, my husband is on a work trip and my son and I are on 79 00:04:34,478 --> 00:04:37,448 vacation , so it's lovely this week. 80 00:04:38,068 --> 00:04:39,098 Yeah, fantastic. 81 00:04:39,108 --> 00:04:40,698 Getting a bit of R& R, which is lovely. 82 00:04:40,698 --> 00:04:41,528 How old's your son? 83 00:04:42,638 --> 00:04:44,198 He is two years old. 84 00:04:44,518 --> 00:04:45,158 Oh, wow. 85 00:04:45,258 --> 00:04:46,268 The terrible twos. 86 00:04:46,508 --> 00:04:47,498 Or is it? 87 00:04:47,853 --> 00:04:51,963 The tangly twos, because, you know, our kids, they, I appreciate this is 88 00:04:51,963 --> 00:04:54,193 not anything to do with e commerce, we'll get into e commerce in a 89 00:04:54,193 --> 00:04:57,203 little minute, but our kids when they were two were absolutely brilliant. 90 00:04:57,303 --> 00:05:00,603 It was the first two years where my daughter was an absolute nightmare, 91 00:05:00,603 --> 00:05:03,493 but everybody else was pretty good, and then when the twos hit, everything was 92 00:05:03,493 --> 00:05:04,893 downhill from there, so it was great. 93 00:05:05,303 --> 00:05:09,933 I never experienced the terrible twos, so, hopefully, you'll be like me and not 94 00:05:09,943 --> 00:05:11,373 have to go through all of that, you know. 95 00:05:12,428 --> 00:05:12,728 Yeah. 96 00:05:12,733 --> 00:05:14,648 I feel like I'm going through it a little bit. 97 00:05:14,678 --> 00:05:20,108 Uh, he is definitely a little bit of a, has his own personality, throws 98 00:05:20,108 --> 00:05:22,208 tantrum, doesn't get his own way. 99 00:05:22,628 --> 00:05:23,378 Uh, but I think 100 00:05:23,523 --> 00:05:23,923 we all? 101 00:05:23,983 --> 00:05:24,643 Don't we all? 102 00:05:24,723 --> 00:05:26,113 that goes with 103 00:05:27,143 --> 00:05:29,673 I think I still do that and it's a long time since I was two. 104 00:05:30,643 --> 00:05:33,813 But listen, it's great to have you on the show and no doubt we'll be hearing 105 00:05:33,813 --> 00:05:36,993 from your son in the background as you're enjoying your vacation time. 106 00:05:36,993 --> 00:05:38,053 Thanks for squeezing us in. 107 00:05:38,903 --> 00:05:39,803 So let's jump into this. 108 00:05:39,803 --> 00:05:41,553 How did you get started in website design? 109 00:05:43,028 --> 00:05:47,138 Yeah, so I never really thought I would be doing this for, uh, 110 00:05:47,178 --> 00:05:48,768 as a business, as a career. 111 00:05:49,098 --> 00:05:54,908 I was in the banking industry, so I was a banker for, uh, two years and just 112 00:05:54,908 --> 00:05:56,858 in the finance industry for five years. 113 00:05:57,308 --> 00:06:02,328 Uh, but I really just wanted something that fused design and tech together, 114 00:06:02,478 --> 00:06:06,238 um, having I had my son in 2020. 115 00:06:06,268 --> 00:06:10,408 I didn't want to go back to the banking world, uh, and just 116 00:06:10,408 --> 00:06:11,638 wanted to try something new. 117 00:06:11,648 --> 00:06:16,538 So I started my own business, uh, kind of just offering here and 118 00:06:16,538 --> 00:06:22,253 that, uh, not really focusing on, uh, Specifically websites, until 119 00:06:22,273 --> 00:06:27,293 I worked on a specific project and I just fell in love with websites. 120 00:06:28,753 --> 00:06:32,473 And then I noticed that I was working with mainly product based businesses. 121 00:06:33,353 --> 00:06:37,493 And I niched even further with working with Shopify. 122 00:06:37,893 --> 00:06:43,743 Um, so yeah, I started my business in April 2021 and it's been. 123 00:06:43,988 --> 00:06:48,778 Really fun, uh, like hardships and fun times like any other 124 00:06:48,788 --> 00:06:50,788 entrepreneur, but it's, it's been fun. 125 00:06:51,943 --> 00:06:54,833 So April 2021, it's quite a new business, isn't it really? 126 00:06:54,943 --> 00:06:57,983 Um, I say new, it's, it's in the digital space. 127 00:06:57,983 --> 00:07:00,783 Anything over two months is, is, is pretty old, isn't it really? 128 00:07:00,783 --> 00:07:05,573 But, um, but for, if you've been doing Shopify then for a few years, 129 00:07:06,113 --> 00:07:08,323 what sort of things have you... 130 00:07:08,488 --> 00:07:12,248 Figured out during those two years, I mean, you've obviously, you've 131 00:07:12,248 --> 00:07:15,288 obviously learned a lot of lessons going through what you've gone through, 132 00:07:15,778 --> 00:07:17,238 working with product based businesses. 133 00:07:17,238 --> 00:07:21,778 What are some of the common themes or common, maybe common problems you 134 00:07:21,778 --> 00:07:26,418 see people making over and over again that you're, you're always hitting? 135 00:07:27,968 --> 00:07:34,348 So a lot of times, uh, clients or potentials would come to me and focus 136 00:07:34,348 --> 00:07:36,308 on like one area of their website. 137 00:07:36,388 --> 00:07:39,248 And that's not really a problem. 138 00:07:39,298 --> 00:07:42,068 Like you do want to start with something and not get overwhelmed. 139 00:07:42,568 --> 00:07:47,908 Uh, but they don't realize that the website is composed by all of the things, 140 00:07:47,908 --> 00:07:54,143 like All the pages, not just the homepage, not just the product page, um, and then 141 00:07:54,643 --> 00:07:59,733 They tend to kind of just want to focus on one task and then, uh, optimize it and 142 00:07:59,733 --> 00:08:02,393 then wonder why the website isn't working. 143 00:08:02,793 --> 00:08:08,133 Uh, so I like to tell folks that it is a long term, uh, project. 144 00:08:08,183 --> 00:08:11,683 Like, you always have to be optimizing and updating your website. 145 00:08:12,163 --> 00:08:15,823 Uh, it's not something that you build and, like, people are going to come 146 00:08:15,923 --> 00:08:18,863 to your shop and shop automatically. 147 00:08:19,353 --> 00:08:21,183 So you have to keep optimizing it. 148 00:08:21,293 --> 00:08:21,893 Um... 149 00:08:22,678 --> 00:08:28,078 But you do have to have a strategy in order to really drive people to your 150 00:08:28,078 --> 00:08:30,148 website and get people to buy from you 151 00:08:30,468 --> 00:08:30,478 hmm. 152 00:08:30,488 --> 00:08:30,818 Mm 153 00:08:30,918 --> 00:08:35,623 if you like a lot of people DIY their website, which is It's not a problem 154 00:08:35,623 --> 00:08:41,873 when you're starting out, but if you DIY, DIY the website with the point of view 155 00:08:41,913 --> 00:08:47,533 of, let me just create the website, no plan, no strategy, then it's not going 156 00:08:47,533 --> 00:08:50,413 to work, um, as well as you want it to. 157 00:08:50,493 --> 00:08:52,073 So it's not going to drive the sales. 158 00:08:52,483 --> 00:08:57,583 Um, so I would think the biggest pain point is not having a plan from the get 159 00:08:57,583 --> 00:09:04,183 go and then later realizing that their, their website is lacking something, which. 160 00:09:04,643 --> 00:09:09,703 Started off with the planning and the strategy, um, and by what I mean 161 00:09:09,713 --> 00:09:15,073 by that is like who is their target audience and then asking questions 162 00:09:15,083 --> 00:09:19,343 about, you know, what is different about their product and why do 163 00:09:19,343 --> 00:09:21,528 people care, um, because people care. 164 00:09:22,328 --> 00:09:24,388 You know, there's a ton of products out there. 165 00:09:24,478 --> 00:09:26,698 People want to know why they should care about your product 166 00:09:26,868 --> 00:09:28,088 and why they should buy it. 167 00:09:28,728 --> 00:09:33,348 Um, so those are two main things that, uh, a lot of product based businesses 168 00:09:33,738 --> 00:09:36,078 don't know when they're fairly new. 169 00:09:36,468 --> 00:09:40,378 And, and sometimes when they've been in business for a while, they still kind 170 00:09:40,378 --> 00:09:45,778 of have these, uh, the pain points of not knowing who they're selling to. 171 00:09:46,138 --> 00:09:46,538 Yeah. 172 00:09:47,178 --> 00:09:48,828 Oh, I'm dropping my pen in the background there. 173 00:09:49,938 --> 00:09:52,078 There's a lot to what you said there, Diana. 174 00:09:52,368 --> 00:09:55,568 Let me just come back and pick on a few of the points if I can. 175 00:09:56,398 --> 00:10:02,648 This idea that your website is not a one term project, but 176 00:10:02,718 --> 00:10:04,508 you have to keep optimising it. 177 00:10:04,518 --> 00:10:05,798 You've got to start somewhere. 178 00:10:05,828 --> 00:10:07,058 You've definitely got to start. 179 00:10:07,798 --> 00:10:09,548 And you've definitely got to begin. 180 00:10:10,723 --> 00:10:14,243 What the industry likes to term the MVP, the Minimum Viable Product. 181 00:10:14,243 --> 00:10:16,673 It doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be pretty reasonable. 182 00:10:17,273 --> 00:10:21,313 Um, and that's actually not hard to do with a Shopify website, is it? 183 00:10:21,313 --> 00:10:24,923 It's pretty reasonable to get something quite basic, pretty easy to get 184 00:10:24,923 --> 00:10:26,303 something quite basic and reasonable. 185 00:10:27,243 --> 00:10:31,303 Um, but I liked what you said about this idea of keep optimising it. 186 00:10:31,303 --> 00:10:35,413 It was for us, um, in my own e com journey, one of the things I 187 00:10:35,423 --> 00:10:40,603 realised was that we would do a major redesign every two years. 188 00:10:40,973 --> 00:10:44,433 Um, and this was just something that I budgeted for because technology will move 189 00:10:44,433 --> 00:10:48,933 on so rapidly that what you design now in two years time, you're probably, you 190 00:10:48,933 --> 00:10:51,803 know, you're gonna have to think about some other form, like now, you know, 191 00:10:51,813 --> 00:10:55,573 Apple's released the VR head goggles, so somehow we're gonna have to tie websites 192 00:10:55,583 --> 00:10:57,313 into that at some point, I'm fairly sure. 193 00:10:57,993 --> 00:11:03,283 Um, so you've got all these things going on, so we always planned, and we still 194 00:11:03,313 --> 00:11:05,973 do plan to have a pretty big, robust. 195 00:11:06,583 --> 00:11:10,963 Site update every two years, but that doesn't mean for those 196 00:11:10,963 --> 00:11:12,323 two years we don't do anything. 197 00:11:12,503 --> 00:11:15,563 Um, there's constant iterations and changes. 198 00:11:15,583 --> 00:11:18,853 And so we're probably updating the site on a weekly basis. 199 00:11:19,303 --> 00:11:21,163 Now bearing in mind, my site is not a Shopify site. 200 00:11:21,163 --> 00:11:23,573 We don't do Shopify sites, not because I'm against Shopify. 201 00:11:23,933 --> 00:11:26,043 I just have my own platform, which I really like. 202 00:11:26,513 --> 00:11:29,313 Um, and the team have developed and they work on it and they know how 203 00:11:29,313 --> 00:11:30,443 to make it work, which is great. 204 00:11:31,333 --> 00:11:33,153 So we, at the moment we have our own platform. 205 00:11:33,763 --> 00:11:40,353 Um, I'm super, I'm, I, I, and I, I kind of, I get what you're saying 206 00:11:40,363 --> 00:11:41,593 about this constant iteration. 207 00:11:41,593 --> 00:11:44,183 That's what we do, the constant iteration, the redesign every two years. 208 00:11:44,803 --> 00:11:54,053 I am intrigued how you came to the, this understanding of, you know, where 209 00:11:54,053 --> 00:11:58,073 you said you've not got a plan from the get go, um, you need to think about who 210 00:11:58,073 --> 00:12:01,613 your target audience is and what makes your product stand out to your audience. 211 00:12:02,363 --> 00:12:06,433 What have you, I guess, what have you experienced that's made you realise 212 00:12:06,473 --> 00:12:10,943 actually these are really critical, important parts and where, where are 213 00:12:10,943 --> 00:12:14,143 people missing it, do you think on, where do you typically see people 214 00:12:14,143 --> 00:12:17,823 missing it and what, what's the implications of that on their website? 215 00:12:18,968 --> 00:12:23,888 So, I guess because of the conversations that I've had with some potentials 216 00:12:23,888 --> 00:12:28,758 and then also with clients, um, for example, the latest project that 217 00:12:28,758 --> 00:12:34,638 I did, uh, she was struggling with knowing who her target audience was 218 00:12:34,638 --> 00:12:37,008 because of the way her product is. 219 00:12:37,178 --> 00:12:42,808 She sells Peshtemal, uh, and so there's a lot of other boutiques or stores 220 00:12:42,808 --> 00:12:45,213 that sell You know, Turkish towels. 221 00:12:45,693 --> 00:12:50,643 So, um, the product isn't unique, but the mission behind it is unique. 222 00:12:50,913 --> 00:12:57,663 So she, uh, donates to, uh, breast cancer patients and really focuses on like women 223 00:12:57,663 --> 00:13:02,123 and how to help women when they're going through these, uh, breast cancer journeys. 224 00:13:02,633 --> 00:13:07,823 Um, and so she wanted to really focus on that and, um. 225 00:13:08,193 --> 00:13:11,763 Sell the mission and the value versus just selling the product 226 00:13:12,203 --> 00:13:12,213 hmm. 227 00:13:12,223 --> 00:13:12,563 Mm 228 00:13:12,693 --> 00:13:14,593 and she really didn't know how to do that. 229 00:13:14,973 --> 00:13:20,153 She was kind of concerned about Focusing on a target audience because she 230 00:13:20,153 --> 00:13:26,473 thought she was going to miss out on the other Buyers or the other people that 231 00:13:26,473 --> 00:13:28,173 weren't you know women and all of that 232 00:13:28,323 --> 00:13:28,333 hmm. 233 00:13:29,353 --> 00:13:35,203 But I feel like in the e commerce space you can't attract everybody like it's one 234 00:13:35,203 --> 00:13:40,588 of those famous things if you You know, sell to, or if you talk to everyone, 235 00:13:40,598 --> 00:13:42,478 you're really not talking to anybody. 236 00:13:42,728 --> 00:13:48,428 Um, so it was one of those things where we had to ask deeper questions, like, 237 00:13:48,968 --> 00:13:54,418 you know, the mission, the values, uh, what her brand was all about, 238 00:13:54,428 --> 00:13:56,758 and even go into like brand identity. 239 00:13:57,068 --> 00:14:01,448 Um, which I really feel like when you're designing a website, that should be 240 00:14:01,448 --> 00:14:04,258 the first thing that you do is have a. 241 00:14:04,633 --> 00:14:10,443 Well thought out and, um, not just individuals, but brand strategy, uh, 242 00:14:10,503 --> 00:14:15,693 behind that so that the website actually works and that it all flows together 243 00:14:16,143 --> 00:14:20,363 because if you don't have a well established brand identity, uh, everything 244 00:14:20,363 --> 00:14:25,478 else kind of It's so much harder to do, even through marketing and all of that. 245 00:14:25,898 --> 00:14:29,348 And I know that's a completely different conversation, but I do 246 00:14:29,838 --> 00:14:34,668 feel like brand identity has a lot to do with, um, creating a 247 00:14:35,288 --> 00:14:37,528 website that really works for you. 248 00:14:38,518 --> 00:14:46,148 Yeah, again, I, I, that's very wise and, um, I think for me when, you know, when 249 00:14:46,148 --> 00:14:49,388 people talk about competing with Amazon, how do you compete with Amazon when 250 00:14:49,388 --> 00:14:51,198 Amazon sells the same product as you? 251 00:14:51,198 --> 00:14:53,608 You know, you may sell it cheaper, but people are going to buy from Amazon 252 00:14:53,668 --> 00:14:54,828 because of Amazon Prime, blah, blah, blah. 253 00:14:55,468 --> 00:14:57,338 Um, the one thing Amazon can't do. 254 00:14:58,998 --> 00:15:04,638 It seems as best as I can tell, uh, is they can't copy your story. 255 00:15:05,148 --> 00:15:06,738 Um, they don't have your vision. 256 00:15:06,738 --> 00:15:07,878 They don't have your values. 257 00:15:07,878 --> 00:15:09,518 They don't have your story. 258 00:15:09,518 --> 00:15:11,608 They don't have what's authentically you. 259 00:15:12,278 --> 00:15:14,398 Um, and I, I. 260 00:15:14,913 --> 00:15:21,483 I, I love what you said there about, um, about the, for the, the, the lady 261 00:15:21,483 --> 00:15:24,753 with the, was it Turkish towels that you said the product wasn't unique, the 262 00:15:24,753 --> 00:15:26,803 mission behind the product was unique. 263 00:15:27,323 --> 00:15:31,813 And so positioning her brand to tell her unique story, 264 00:15:32,613 --> 00:15:34,823 um, is super, super critical. 265 00:15:35,353 --> 00:15:38,313 And I, and I think if you're listening to the show and you have a site where 266 00:15:38,313 --> 00:15:43,033 you're selling a, um, a product, which is common to many sites. 267 00:15:43,853 --> 00:15:48,473 You stand out on your mission, on your story, on your brand identity, don't you? 268 00:15:48,473 --> 00:15:49,723 That's how you differentiate. 269 00:15:49,733 --> 00:15:51,983 That's what we did in the beauty space for years. 270 00:15:52,508 --> 00:15:53,798 Um, how do we differentiate? 271 00:15:53,798 --> 00:15:56,738 Well, we, we just had a very different look, feel and brand story. 272 00:15:56,738 --> 00:16:00,298 We, we sort of told our story in a different way and that 273 00:16:00,298 --> 00:16:01,388 worked really well for us. 274 00:16:01,568 --> 00:16:03,948 Um, that works super, super well. 275 00:16:03,948 --> 00:16:05,518 And so I love that. 276 00:16:05,548 --> 00:16:10,248 I love, uh, how the mission is unique, even if the product isn't. 277 00:16:10,588 --> 00:16:14,638 So how did you help this lady position that story on her website? 278 00:16:14,658 --> 00:16:15,288 How did you? 279 00:16:15,573 --> 00:16:19,083 What was some of the, I guess, I guess the reason I'm asking this Diana is because 280 00:16:19,083 --> 00:16:21,673 there's going to be people listening to the show who are just starting out 281 00:16:21,673 --> 00:16:24,923 and setting up who are going to go, I don't know what a brand identity 282 00:16:24,923 --> 00:16:28,793 is, um, I'm selling a product maybe that some other websites are selling. 283 00:16:28,793 --> 00:16:33,303 So how do I, how do I tell my missional story in a way that's 284 00:16:33,303 --> 00:16:35,243 attractive to my target audience? 285 00:16:37,098 --> 00:16:40,368 So we started asking questions that were... 286 00:16:41,183 --> 00:16:46,313 Targeted to, um, bring out some deeper understanding. 287 00:16:46,313 --> 00:16:50,023 So some of the questions we asked were like, who would 288 00:16:50,023 --> 00:16:52,783 you, um, sell the product to? 289 00:16:52,783 --> 00:16:55,903 Like, obviously, but then why would you sell it? 290 00:16:56,003 --> 00:17:01,683 Why do you feel like this is important to have as your brand story? 291 00:17:02,003 --> 00:17:07,873 Um, because a lot of times, uh, people don't really know why until they start 292 00:17:08,063 --> 00:17:11,923 exploring, um, realizing, like, maybe... 293 00:17:12,558 --> 00:17:17,348 You know, I have a deeper desire to position this product in the 294 00:17:17,358 --> 00:17:21,428 market because of this reason, because, you know, she went through, 295 00:17:21,468 --> 00:17:23,988 uh, that same journey herself. 296 00:17:24,438 --> 00:17:30,018 So she was really passionate about that, uh, so therefore she could really show the 297 00:17:30,028 --> 00:17:33,418 brand story, uh, for her product that way. 298 00:17:33,778 --> 00:17:38,398 Um, and then another thing that we did is we also researched the 299 00:17:38,398 --> 00:17:40,878 market, so what other boutiques sold? 300 00:17:41,373 --> 00:17:44,603 We're already out there that sold Turkish towels. 301 00:17:45,013 --> 00:17:46,163 Um, and there's a lot. 302 00:17:46,233 --> 00:17:52,783 So, uh, you know, and from there we started noticing that people were only 303 00:17:52,783 --> 00:17:57,033 targeting people that were visiting the beach, like, you know, sunny areas, 304 00:17:57,223 --> 00:18:03,893 uh, nothing really towards women, uh, nothing that was really had a mission. 305 00:18:04,243 --> 00:18:10,823 Um, so I think the first step would be to research also, um, in the market and 306 00:18:10,823 --> 00:18:16,768 see If your product already exists in the market, do some research and try to gather 307 00:18:16,808 --> 00:18:21,498 insights on, you know, what are they doing and how can you do it different? 308 00:18:21,708 --> 00:18:24,918 Who can you target that nobody else has targeted? 309 00:18:25,328 --> 00:18:27,968 Or if they have, how can they, how can you do it different? 310 00:18:30,133 --> 00:18:38,333 Yeah, that's a very good, um, another very good point, and again, I agree, I think 311 00:18:38,333 --> 00:18:42,153 it's one of those things that we get in such a rush to get the website up and 312 00:18:42,153 --> 00:18:49,143 running, especially in the early days, doing the research becomes problematic. 313 00:18:49,503 --> 00:18:53,183 Um, and then if you, if you sort of, if you do that without doing the research 314 00:18:53,183 --> 00:18:56,143 and you sort of stumble across something that works and you start to become sort 315 00:18:56,143 --> 00:19:00,263 of semi successful, you understand I'm talking from experience here, um, you 316 00:19:00,263 --> 00:19:03,243 start to become semi successful then you're too busy to do the research 317 00:19:03,243 --> 00:19:05,983 anyway and why do you need to do research because you're sort of semi successful. 318 00:19:06,663 --> 00:19:10,853 But actually sitting down and trying to figure out more information about your 319 00:19:10,873 --> 00:19:15,923 customers and what their story is, how it relates to you, what they're interested 320 00:19:15,923 --> 00:19:17,303 in, what they're not interested in. 321 00:19:17,713 --> 00:19:21,343 where they shop, what kind of places they eat at, what kind of clothes they wear, 322 00:19:21,943 --> 00:19:24,753 um, what kind of brands they connect with. 323 00:19:24,753 --> 00:19:27,413 I mean, all of these things are super, super important, right? 324 00:19:28,053 --> 00:19:31,653 So how did you, how did you do that research? 325 00:19:31,653 --> 00:19:36,443 You said you researched, um, you saw that some of her competitors were 326 00:19:37,153 --> 00:19:40,973 advertising specifically to people going to the beach and sunny places. 327 00:19:42,118 --> 00:19:46,168 How did you figure that out, um, and what other type of research 328 00:19:46,168 --> 00:19:48,948 did you do, um, on her competitors? 329 00:19:48,948 --> 00:19:49,298 Mm hmm. 330 00:19:51,548 --> 00:19:57,033 Uh, we really just went through like a, um, Research on like Google. 331 00:19:57,263 --> 00:20:03,053 Uh, so you type it, type it in Peshtemal Boutique and seeing came up, uh, 332 00:20:03,143 --> 00:20:05,563 which the first ones were wholesalers. 333 00:20:05,573 --> 00:20:07,523 So that was like a big one. 334 00:20:07,593 --> 00:20:12,543 There was a lot of wholesale companies that were selling the Turkish towels. 335 00:20:12,943 --> 00:20:18,803 Um, and then the next one was like, You know, actual boutiques that were selling 336 00:20:18,803 --> 00:20:23,663 the towels, but once again, they were targeting people going to the beach. 337 00:20:23,968 --> 00:20:23,978 hmm. 338 00:20:23,988 --> 00:20:24,338 Mm 339 00:20:24,493 --> 00:20:29,263 this is the use for the towel, which, uh, you know, it's very common. 340 00:20:29,293 --> 00:20:33,703 People go to the beach, they need a towel, but the way that my client. 341 00:20:33,993 --> 00:20:38,943 was wanting to position it, and we positioned it this way, is that she 342 00:20:38,943 --> 00:20:44,943 wanted the pessimal to be as a symbol for women to embrace themselves, so 343 00:20:44,948 --> 00:20:45,308 hmm. 344 00:20:45,973 --> 00:20:51,513 the Peshtemal could be worn, um, to make them feel more confident after 345 00:20:51,523 --> 00:20:57,003 having gone through the breast cancer, um, surgeries, and all of that. 346 00:20:58,358 --> 00:20:58,878 Oh, wow. 347 00:20:59,568 --> 00:21:03,248 That's, uh, And again, there's a unique story in that, isn't there? 348 00:21:03,248 --> 00:21:05,408 And, and, and, and figuring that out. 349 00:21:05,718 --> 00:21:06,608 That's, that's awesome. 350 00:21:06,618 --> 00:21:10,488 So just going back, one of the things that you said that I wanted to pick up 351 00:21:10,488 --> 00:21:13,938 on, uh, and again, not to pick on the lady with the Turkish towels, but were 352 00:21:13,938 --> 00:21:16,638 some, there's some good lessons here that I'm quite enjoying talking about. 353 00:21:17,028 --> 00:21:19,498 Cause this is old school, um, e commerce. 354 00:21:19,508 --> 00:21:22,018 It's this sort of e commerce 101, right? 355 00:21:22,018 --> 00:21:26,088 Which, um, I think too many people sort of skip this part, uh, and go 356 00:21:26,108 --> 00:21:28,998 to the nice shiny bits, like give me the latest marketing thing. 357 00:21:29,638 --> 00:21:30,068 Um. 358 00:21:32,328 --> 00:21:37,318 The thing that you mentioned, which I thought was super interesting was how, 359 00:21:37,678 --> 00:21:45,268 um, how there was a fear to niche down, um, both in, in her target audience. 360 00:21:45,278 --> 00:21:47,768 So, you know, like you say, you can't sell everybody. 361 00:21:47,778 --> 00:21:50,718 If you try and sell everybody, you won't sell to anybody kind of thing. 362 00:21:51,348 --> 00:21:59,318 Um, and this is a constant thing that I see, uh, in a lot of conversations I have. 363 00:21:59,893 --> 00:22:03,323 The fear to niche down to something quite specific and 364 00:22:03,323 --> 00:22:05,913 focus on a specific, um, product. 365 00:22:07,353 --> 00:22:11,503 For those listening who are trying to sell everybody and therefore not selling 366 00:22:11,503 --> 00:22:15,853 anybody and they're not really niching down, what advice would you give? 367 00:22:17,973 --> 00:22:18,833 I would say... 368 00:22:19,518 --> 00:22:26,188 That you don't specifically have to niche down to like a target audience There's 369 00:22:26,188 --> 00:22:27,868 different ways that you can niche down. 370 00:22:28,278 --> 00:22:34,018 This just happened to be her way of niching down So you can niche down by the 371 00:22:34,028 --> 00:22:39,178 type of products that you offer Like if you're just niching down into the beauty 372 00:22:39,178 --> 00:22:47,138 space, you can do it that way if you want to niche down by the way that your product 373 00:22:47,188 --> 00:22:49,763 is made like if it It's eco friendly. 374 00:22:50,073 --> 00:22:51,363 Is it, you know, ethical? 375 00:22:51,703 --> 00:22:54,523 Um, that's also another way that you can niche down. 376 00:22:54,833 --> 00:22:58,883 So there's so many ways that you can niche down, but it's really what makes sense 377 00:22:58,943 --> 00:23:06,363 to your brand and your product and what's going to be, um, the most beneficial to 378 00:23:06,903 --> 00:23:12,583 get eyes on your product and that you feel aligns with your mission and values 379 00:23:13,293 --> 00:23:13,313 Um, 380 00:23:15,433 --> 00:23:20,593 is um, Targeting the way like they niche down, that's, that's what 381 00:23:20,593 --> 00:23:21,653 they need to be thinking about. 382 00:23:21,683 --> 00:23:25,553 What makes sense for their brand and their mission and their values. 383 00:23:26,773 --> 00:23:27,193 okay. 384 00:23:27,933 --> 00:23:32,723 And so, uh, what are the, I mean, again, it doesn't have to be from 385 00:23:32,723 --> 00:23:35,073 The Lady with the Turkish Tales, although I'm quite intrigued now. 386 00:23:35,143 --> 00:23:37,033 I'm, I'm, I'm intrigued by her story. 387 00:23:37,653 --> 00:23:43,613 Um, what are the things have you seen, uh, people do on their websites 388 00:23:43,613 --> 00:23:46,223 that are a bit of a big no no, that aren't really helping them? 389 00:23:47,983 --> 00:23:48,403 Mm-hmm. 390 00:23:48,733 --> 00:23:55,593 So I would start with the header, which is the above the fold when people land on the 391 00:23:55,643 --> 00:23:58,153 home page, if they land on the home page. 392 00:23:59,573 --> 00:24:04,023 All they have is a picture of the product, but they don't have anything 393 00:24:04,043 --> 00:24:07,093 that describes who the product is for. 394 00:24:08,423 --> 00:24:15,453 Why people kind of give the experience of what they want to make their customers 395 00:24:15,483 --> 00:24:20,373 feel when they purchase a product, um, and having the call to action to 396 00:24:20,503 --> 00:24:27,213 shop now, um, and then even offering some incentives to, to shop with them. 397 00:24:27,543 --> 00:24:32,563 And I'm not talking about bombarding them with pop ups, because I personally 398 00:24:32,593 --> 00:24:34,733 don't like having every page. 399 00:24:35,218 --> 00:24:40,998 With a pop up here, pop up there, but like having incentives like, hey, buy 400 00:24:40,998 --> 00:24:47,168 one, get one free, like on that header image and updating it, um, constantly, 401 00:24:47,518 --> 00:24:51,718 uh, because like I said before, some people, like, build a website and then 402 00:24:51,728 --> 00:24:56,988 they never, um, update it with, like, the latest sales or something that 403 00:24:56,988 --> 00:25:01,188 keeps their customers coming back, you know, interested in shopping with them. 404 00:25:02,713 --> 00:25:04,123 Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? 405 00:25:04,123 --> 00:25:08,443 The, the hero section on the homepage, the most viewed section on anybody's website. 406 00:25:09,093 --> 00:25:12,853 Um, in a lot of ways, especially with organic, but it's one of 407 00:25:12,858 --> 00:25:19,993 those where, um, where you're right, I don't, excuse me one sec. 408 00:25:21,423 --> 00:25:21,993 Excuse me. 409 00:25:21,993 --> 00:25:24,423 Just getting a bit of, a bit of a frog in my throat. 410 00:25:24,783 --> 00:25:28,683 Um, so with our homepage, you kind of see that. 411 00:25:31,008 --> 00:25:33,838 I get that you're, what you're saying is that a lot of homepages 412 00:25:33,868 --> 00:25:34,938 are stagnant, aren't they? 413 00:25:34,948 --> 00:25:38,278 They sort of, they, they set it and forget it, uh, and they're not updating 414 00:25:38,278 --> 00:25:42,118 on a regular basis, especially that hero section, the first fold above 415 00:25:42,118 --> 00:25:44,678 the screen, which is, like I say, it's one of the most visited areas. 416 00:25:45,198 --> 00:25:48,448 And so if you're returning visitors, that becomes quite an important part to sort 417 00:25:48,448 --> 00:25:51,968 of, you know, pique their curiosity and get them interested in what's going on. 418 00:25:52,768 --> 00:25:56,118 What sort of things have you seen work well in the hero section? 419 00:25:58,418 --> 00:26:04,898 I would say having like, the most popular ones that I've seen is like, using it 420 00:26:04,898 --> 00:26:12,408 as GIFs, so G I F, I don't know if I'm saying it right, uh, where, yeah, so, 421 00:26:12,748 --> 00:26:19,478 they have, it's actually a video, um, so, if, it keeps playing, um, which, 422 00:26:19,918 --> 00:26:24,403 it can be a good thing and a bad thing, so, if it's If the video is too, um, 423 00:26:25,873 --> 00:26:30,053 the sizing is not right, then it can be heavy on the website and it, you know, 424 00:26:30,053 --> 00:26:35,203 slows it down, but it can be helpful because it catches people's attention. 425 00:26:35,203 --> 00:26:41,083 Like it, it just keeps playing, um, and then as, uh, like the section 426 00:26:41,183 --> 00:26:47,123 talking about the product, um, like it makes you want to, you know, Look 427 00:26:47,123 --> 00:26:48,443 and see what their product is about. 428 00:26:48,443 --> 00:26:49,203 Like, it's different. 429 00:26:49,413 --> 00:26:54,433 Not a lot of websites have that, so that would be something that people 430 00:26:54,433 --> 00:26:58,833 could, you know, use for their own advantage to get people to shop. 431 00:26:59,843 --> 00:27:06,873 And then another thing would be, um, like having on the, on the header, um, 432 00:27:06,953 --> 00:27:11,643 I don't think I've seen a lot of these, but having like a little, uh, underneath 433 00:27:12,083 --> 00:27:18,243 the hero section where they can offer like a freebie, um, Some people can 434 00:27:18,243 --> 00:27:23,623 sign up to their email list, um, cause then, that way they're getting people 435 00:27:23,633 --> 00:27:29,363 on their email list and, um, they can like, target them to shop with them, so. 436 00:27:31,668 --> 00:27:32,288 Very good. 437 00:27:32,848 --> 00:27:36,138 I'm intrigued and interested by the idea of the video GIFs. 438 00:27:36,278 --> 00:27:39,788 And when you were talking about it, I was smiling because, uh, 439 00:27:39,798 --> 00:27:43,008 you are way too young for this, Diana, but I am not, unfortunately. 440 00:27:43,048 --> 00:27:43,868 I remember... 441 00:27:44,398 --> 00:27:51,468 In the 90s, in the late 90s, um, we were using GIFs on websites, uh, in the, you 442 00:27:51,468 --> 00:27:55,298 know, like little dancing plants and stuff like this, um, because it was the 443 00:27:55,298 --> 00:27:58,658 only form of animation that we could do and it was just, it was intriguing 444 00:27:58,658 --> 00:28:01,798 and I'm just, if, if you're, if you're listening to the show and you're of a 445 00:28:01,798 --> 00:28:04,458 certain age, you'll, you'll be able to picture some of these things in your 446 00:28:04,458 --> 00:28:07,788 head and you're just going to smile back, you know, to how website design was in 447 00:28:07,788 --> 00:28:09,328 the 90s with the little animated GIFs. 448 00:28:09,728 --> 00:28:10,888 Of course, technology has moved on. 449 00:28:11,108 --> 00:28:11,928 Quite a bit quicker now. 450 00:28:12,488 --> 00:28:14,818 And the reason this intrigues me, the, the video gifs, 451 00:28:14,858 --> 00:28:16,398 because I have seen it actually. 452 00:28:16,398 --> 00:28:18,358 I've seen it done badly and I've seen it done well. 453 00:28:19,298 --> 00:28:21,178 And, um, I think you're right. 454 00:28:21,178 --> 00:28:25,628 I think it does capture your imagination, especially because it was a rage a 455 00:28:25,628 --> 00:28:29,438 few years ago, was to add on your hero section of video background. 456 00:28:29,948 --> 00:28:33,698 So something like Athletic Greens, for example, has quite an interesting 457 00:28:33,708 --> 00:28:35,638 video background on their hero section. 458 00:28:36,278 --> 00:28:37,998 But those video backgrounds for the... 459 00:28:38,373 --> 00:28:42,123 Even now, still don't really play on a lot of mobile devices. 460 00:28:42,673 --> 00:28:47,343 Um, it was really only desktop and then as, um, as desktop has sort 461 00:28:47,343 --> 00:28:51,903 of fallen in popularity and mobile devices have risen, people have sort 462 00:28:51,903 --> 00:28:54,883 of steered away from those video backgrounds because what's the point? 463 00:28:54,903 --> 00:28:56,103 They're not going to show on the mobile. 464 00:28:56,683 --> 00:29:01,553 But with the, the GIFs, a lot of, like 99% of those could potentially show on a 465 00:29:01,553 --> 00:29:03,183 mobile device whereas the videos couldn't. 466 00:29:03,203 --> 00:29:07,293 And so, um, yeah, so I think this is an intriguing. 467 00:29:07,598 --> 00:29:12,148 I wonder if we will start seeing it more and more, like you say, my only, 468 00:29:13,098 --> 00:29:17,148 my only reservation is does it slow the site down, which even in a world 469 00:29:17,148 --> 00:29:21,728 of crazy fast broadband is still a big deal, especially on mobile. 470 00:29:21,748 --> 00:29:23,148 Google are monitoring that. 471 00:29:23,568 --> 00:29:25,928 It's a real big issue for them in terms of site speed. 472 00:29:25,928 --> 00:29:29,678 So, um, so I like that, love that, think that's great. 473 00:29:32,143 --> 00:29:36,743 The offering a freebie to get on your email, we did that, I can tell you 474 00:29:36,743 --> 00:29:39,923 definitely stories about that, uh, when we did the beauty business, we offered 475 00:29:39,923 --> 00:29:42,783 free samples, uh, you could choose anything, and it was just like our 476 00:29:42,783 --> 00:29:47,053 onboarding, it's like, we know you're not ready to buy now, uh, but we know you're 477 00:29:47,053 --> 00:29:50,273 interested in what we've got, so, you know, let's, I'll give you an easy way 478 00:29:50,273 --> 00:29:51,953 for you to give me your email and address. 479 00:29:52,373 --> 00:29:56,713 Uh, is, is in effect what it was, um, although we did, we gave them free 480 00:29:56,713 --> 00:30:02,713 samples, but we did charge for delivery, um, so we did have a small sort of fee 481 00:30:02,713 --> 00:30:07,683 involved, um, as a little qualifier, um, but it did work really well, 482 00:30:07,683 --> 00:30:09,053 actually, we got a lot of good leads. 483 00:30:09,318 --> 00:30:10,308 Just doing that. 484 00:30:10,308 --> 00:30:11,818 So I think that's a great idea as well. 485 00:30:12,048 --> 00:30:13,828 Loving all these ideas, Diana. 486 00:30:13,838 --> 00:30:14,528 Loving them all. 487 00:30:14,568 --> 00:30:15,888 They're, they're super, super good. 488 00:30:16,298 --> 00:30:18,328 And again, coming back to something you said earlier. 489 00:30:18,498 --> 00:30:20,698 Um, you reminded me of a chap called Don Miller. 490 00:30:20,708 --> 00:30:22,508 I don't know if you've ever come across Don Miller. 491 00:30:22,918 --> 00:30:23,358 Um... 492 00:30:24,303 --> 00:30:24,553 don't know. 493 00:30:24,553 --> 00:30:25,263 Don't think I have. 494 00:30:25,698 --> 00:30:29,688 Don Miller, who is, he heads up Storybrand, at least that's what it 495 00:30:29,688 --> 00:30:32,268 used to be called, I don't know if he's changed his name, but Storybrand 496 00:30:32,278 --> 00:30:35,908 was really interesting because he said the hero section of a website within 497 00:30:36,168 --> 00:30:41,608 five seconds has to answer, uh, three questions, which he called the grunt 498 00:30:41,658 --> 00:30:44,288 test, uh, which was a fascinating thing. 499 00:30:44,288 --> 00:30:47,818 And the grunt test was you, you, you should be able to show somebody 500 00:30:47,818 --> 00:30:50,598 your website, five seconds later, close the screen and they need to 501 00:30:50,618 --> 00:30:51,988 be able to answer three questions. 502 00:30:53,868 --> 00:30:54,988 What is it you sell? 503 00:30:56,848 --> 00:30:58,438 How is it going to benefit me? 504 00:30:58,978 --> 00:31:00,218 How do I get started? 505 00:31:00,378 --> 00:31:03,428 Right, those were the sort of the three questions, which is what you mentioned. 506 00:31:03,818 --> 00:31:07,138 Um, your hero section, I wrote it down here, your hero section needs 507 00:31:07,138 --> 00:31:08,528 to clearly answer who it's for. 508 00:31:09,098 --> 00:31:12,538 Um, what it is they're going to feel, what, uh, what benefits they're 509 00:31:12,538 --> 00:31:15,698 going to get from using the product and having a clear call to action. 510 00:31:15,738 --> 00:31:20,128 And I agree on the no pop ups, please, ladies and gentlemen, no more pop ups. 511 00:31:20,178 --> 00:31:21,068 We don't need them. 512 00:31:21,228 --> 00:31:23,088 In fact, we just don't need them. 513 00:31:23,278 --> 00:31:23,478 We don't. 514 00:31:24,333 --> 00:31:25,203 We could cancel them. 515 00:31:25,463 --> 00:31:28,253 There could be a law which barred them and I would be happy with that, 516 00:31:28,343 --> 00:31:29,733 because that would be a beautiful thing. 517 00:31:30,503 --> 00:31:36,143 Um, so, uh, low in that, uh, information there on the, on the header section. 518 00:31:36,343 --> 00:31:37,303 Anything else on there? 519 00:31:37,303 --> 00:31:40,063 Anything you want, anything else you've missed, or you want to throw in there, 520 00:31:40,063 --> 00:31:42,213 or shall we move on to the next bit? 521 00:31:43,593 --> 00:31:48,893 Um, I think that was all for the hero section, um, those were 522 00:31:48,893 --> 00:31:51,293 like my little few tips there. 523 00:31:51,673 --> 00:31:52,283 Few tips. 524 00:31:52,303 --> 00:31:54,083 Okay, so what's after the hero section? 525 00:31:55,533 --> 00:32:00,893 So I would say that the other thing that people sometimes miss when they're, 526 00:32:01,043 --> 00:32:08,173 uh, DIYing their website is the, like they bombard the homepage with like 527 00:32:08,333 --> 00:32:13,583 bestsellers and sometimes, you know, those products may not be the bestsellers, um. 528 00:32:14,483 --> 00:32:18,573 There's stock which we're trying to get rid of and everybody knows it. 529 00:32:18,613 --> 00:32:20,813 This is the stock that nobody else wants to buy, we're going 530 00:32:20,813 --> 00:32:22,943 to put it in the bestseller category and hope you'll buy it. 531 00:32:22,943 --> 00:32:24,083 Yeah, yeah, I know the one you mean, 532 00:32:25,463 --> 00:32:28,923 And like, there's nothing wrong specifically with that, but like, they 533 00:32:28,923 --> 00:32:34,393 don't really have an add to cart or buy now, uh, or sometimes it's just a 534 00:32:34,393 --> 00:32:40,073 product by itself, um, not really a lot of context as to what the product is. 535 00:32:40,793 --> 00:32:44,763 And again, sometimes people would just scroll right through it because they don't 536 00:32:44,773 --> 00:32:47,293 know, you know, why it's a bestseller. 537 00:32:48,583 --> 00:32:55,503 And then another thing would be the email opt in forms, um, like if you're 538 00:32:55,503 --> 00:33:00,043 just saying sign up to my, you know, newsletter, um, you know, why do people 539 00:33:00,043 --> 00:33:03,093 need to sign up, like what are you offering them, what are you giving, 540 00:33:03,563 --> 00:33:09,183 you know, a 20% discount, which I also have a reservation for that because 541 00:33:09,193 --> 00:33:13,673 a lot of, we're now using that, so you have to come, like get more 542 00:33:13,673 --> 00:33:17,393 creative with it so that people will actually sign up to your email list. 543 00:33:18,423 --> 00:33:20,063 yeah, yeah, absolutely. 544 00:33:20,083 --> 00:33:21,873 Not just get 20% off your first order. 545 00:33:22,153 --> 00:33:27,813 What we found actually is, um, if you put things on your website, 546 00:33:27,833 --> 00:33:31,173 like 20% off your first order, um. 547 00:33:31,728 --> 00:33:36,368 A lot of existing customers, so returning customers come into your website that 548 00:33:36,368 --> 00:33:37,788 have purchased from you in the past. 549 00:33:38,813 --> 00:33:44,353 Get pretty annoyed by this because you're, you're giving value to the first 550 00:33:44,353 --> 00:33:48,013 time customer but it feels like you're not valuing your returning customer. 551 00:33:48,023 --> 00:33:51,203 Like, well they get 20% off but I don't, but this is the 552 00:33:51,203 --> 00:33:52,583 fifth time I've ordered so. 553 00:33:53,308 --> 00:33:57,578 Surely, something's wrong somewhere and we noticed actually, uh, when 554 00:33:57,578 --> 00:34:03,258 we used to do that, we got, um, more and more customer service emails from 555 00:34:03,328 --> 00:34:05,158 customers going, how do I get a discount? 556 00:34:05,168 --> 00:34:06,098 What about me? 557 00:34:06,558 --> 00:34:10,698 Um, or, you know, they'd go set up yet another free Google email. 558 00:34:10,708 --> 00:34:12,878 So I wasn't really growing up, growing my email list. 559 00:34:12,878 --> 00:34:15,908 It was the same customers, five bloody emails, um, cause they 560 00:34:15,908 --> 00:34:16,848 were all at the same address. 561 00:34:17,318 --> 00:34:21,858 And so, um, so it was really interesting to see how. 562 00:34:22,703 --> 00:34:27,883 How people then started to try and play the system and so I just felt like it 563 00:34:27,883 --> 00:34:32,413 wasn't working and it has become a thing now which people have become blind to, 564 00:34:32,443 --> 00:34:37,193 that give me your email address and get 10% off your first order, um, and actually 565 00:34:37,193 --> 00:34:40,783 now if I go to a website I just close it knowing full well if I am going to 566 00:34:40,783 --> 00:34:44,383 buy something from that website I can go back and get that pop up to reopen. 567 00:34:44,893 --> 00:34:50,263 But in the first instance, it's just a bit annoying, um, but you know, we had a long 568 00:34:50,263 --> 00:34:53,583 conversations about this, about actually taking that off the site and then focusing 569 00:34:53,583 --> 00:34:55,233 on giving value to returning customers. 570 00:34:56,213 --> 00:35:00,983 Um, I'm finding another way to give an incentive to new visiting customers, 571 00:35:01,353 --> 00:35:05,983 but giving more value to returning customers, um, uh, you know, to 572 00:35:05,983 --> 00:35:09,343 increase our average order value and customer order frequency numbers. 573 00:35:10,093 --> 00:35:13,333 That on the whole as a strategy made a lot of sense to me and it worked very 574 00:35:13,343 --> 00:35:14,933 well and it still does work very well. 575 00:35:16,728 --> 00:35:19,938 But, you know, not just throwing something on there because you're like, 576 00:35:19,978 --> 00:35:21,548 Oh, it's on somebody else's website. 577 00:35:21,568 --> 00:35:22,648 Therefore it should be on mine. 578 00:35:22,648 --> 00:35:24,308 You know, the sort of attempts that I have to get your email. 579 00:35:25,568 --> 00:35:28,158 The other thing, of course, with this, uh, Diana, maybe you can 580 00:35:28,158 --> 00:35:30,398 speak to this actually, is they. 581 00:35:30,833 --> 00:35:34,183 The amount of websites that go to the effort, say, give me your 582 00:35:34,183 --> 00:35:38,133 email and I'll give you 10% off and then don't do anything with 583 00:35:40,128 --> 00:35:41,908 Oh yeah, yeah, 584 00:35:41,978 --> 00:35:42,493 you know what I mean? 585 00:35:42,648 --> 00:35:48,948 on the, like on the actual email, yeah, it's like you're not introducing yourself 586 00:35:48,948 --> 00:35:53,558 to your audience, like they don't know what you're about, what your brand is 587 00:35:53,558 --> 00:36:00,758 about, so personalizing it, uh, the email itself, and then making them feel 588 00:36:00,758 --> 00:36:06,938 like, hey, we know you, we know you want this product, come and shop with us, um. 589 00:36:07,348 --> 00:36:08,738 Yeah, I totally agree with that. 590 00:36:09,443 --> 00:36:10,743 Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? 591 00:36:10,773 --> 00:36:14,593 It's just that, oh, here's your 10% off coupon, but then the amount of 592 00:36:14,603 --> 00:36:17,553 people I've, because I monitor it, because I'm, I'm obviously, I'm, I'm 593 00:36:17,553 --> 00:36:21,243 a bit weird like this, but I'm, I sign up to things on email and then 594 00:36:21,243 --> 00:36:23,863 I want to see what the sequences are that they send me afterwards. 595 00:36:23,863 --> 00:36:25,393 Is there anything that I can learn from this? 596 00:36:25,393 --> 00:36:26,193 What did I like about it? 597 00:36:26,193 --> 00:36:27,293 What did I not like about it? 598 00:36:28,003 --> 00:36:30,213 And the amount of them you set up and they give you the code and 599 00:36:30,213 --> 00:36:33,433 that's it, you never, you just never hear from these people and 600 00:36:33,433 --> 00:36:35,283 you think what a wasted opportunity. 601 00:36:35,913 --> 00:36:38,603 Um, especially if they give me a code and I've not used it. 602 00:36:39,133 --> 00:36:41,493 You know, it's kind of like, well hang on a minute, maybe I should email them 603 00:36:41,493 --> 00:36:44,023 a few days later and follow up, hey did you get your code, is everything 604 00:36:44,023 --> 00:36:45,173 okay, have you got any questions? 605 00:36:45,173 --> 00:36:46,023 You know, those kind of things. 606 00:36:46,673 --> 00:36:53,153 Um, so that always, uh, intrigues me, uh, in a lot of ways, um, is the, so I, 607 00:36:53,183 --> 00:36:54,523 I think you're right, the email sign up. 608 00:36:54,533 --> 00:36:55,413 For me. 609 00:36:56,723 --> 00:37:00,373 And I'll, I've mentioned this before, it's, it's a, but it's something 610 00:37:00,373 --> 00:37:03,493 that I think I'll keep on mentioning because I think it's still important. 611 00:37:05,008 --> 00:37:08,098 In e commerce, your primary aim of that website is to get somebody 612 00:37:08,118 --> 00:37:09,338 to buy your product, right? 613 00:37:09,338 --> 00:37:12,128 The whole reason the website is there is to get somebody to buy your product. 614 00:37:13,108 --> 00:37:16,828 If they're not going to buy your product, the second aim, the second 615 00:37:16,838 --> 00:37:20,448 primary aim of your website, the very next thing should be to try 616 00:37:20,448 --> 00:37:22,148 and get their email address, right? 617 00:37:22,398 --> 00:37:26,678 This is my opinion, you know, um, so the, the transitional call to 618 00:37:26,678 --> 00:37:30,828 action, the secondary call to action, whatever you want to call it, um, 619 00:37:30,828 --> 00:37:34,923 the tertiary call to action, it, The primary call is always to sell. 620 00:37:34,953 --> 00:37:37,393 If they're not ready to buy, get their email address and be 621 00:37:37,393 --> 00:37:39,623 creative in ways to do that. 622 00:37:40,043 --> 00:37:43,863 And then be creative in how you communicate because you can onboard really 623 00:37:43,863 --> 00:37:45,753 well, can't you, with that strategy. 624 00:37:46,273 --> 00:37:50,993 Um, that I think has worked for me very, very well over the years. 625 00:37:51,003 --> 00:37:53,053 And I think that's probably what you're alluding to here, isn't 626 00:37:53,053 --> 00:37:54,113 it, with the sign up forms. 627 00:37:54,113 --> 00:37:58,403 It's like, if you can't get the sale, do something well to get their email address. 628 00:37:59,688 --> 00:38:03,758 Yeah, it kind of goes back to the the build it and forget about it like 629 00:38:04,458 --> 00:38:08,638 The email list, like your website and your email list go hand in hand. 630 00:38:08,988 --> 00:38:12,858 You can't, you know, build the website, never update it, and expect 631 00:38:12,858 --> 00:38:15,153 people to Shop on the website. 632 00:38:15,513 --> 00:38:22,573 Um, and you can expect people to use that 20% off or whatever you're enticing 633 00:38:22,573 --> 00:38:24,283 them to do through your email list. 634 00:38:24,803 --> 00:38:29,743 If you're not going to be, um, popping up, you know, at least I like to say 635 00:38:29,743 --> 00:38:34,483 twice, uh, in the month and saying, Hey, this is something new with our 636 00:38:34,483 --> 00:38:38,123 brand or, Hey, how are things going with you through your email list. 637 00:38:38,398 --> 00:38:43,158 Like, you can't just forget about the people on your email list, um, you 638 00:38:43,168 --> 00:38:48,158 want to make them feel like they're valued because, you know, people, 639 00:38:48,398 --> 00:38:52,268 like, businesses are made up of people so if you're not valuing those 640 00:38:52,268 --> 00:38:56,158 people on your email list, valuing the people going to your website, then 641 00:38:56,158 --> 00:39:00,408 you can't expect to make sales, um, it just, it doesn't work that way. 642 00:39:00,853 --> 00:39:01,243 Yeah. 643 00:39:01,333 --> 00:39:02,563 No, I totally agree with you. 644 00:39:02,683 --> 00:39:03,733 I totally agree with you. 645 00:39:05,513 --> 00:39:09,713 So, uh, we've talked a lot about the, you know, the first page. 646 00:39:09,713 --> 00:39:12,023 We've talked about the header, we've talked about the email signup, we've 647 00:39:12,023 --> 00:39:13,313 talked about the call to action. 648 00:39:14,063 --> 00:39:19,453 Um, Let's talk a little bit about the product page, uh, for a minute, uh, Diana, 649 00:39:19,463 --> 00:39:24,563 what sort of things do you think people can do to improve their product page? 650 00:39:26,378 --> 00:39:29,768 So some of the things, and this is actually, um, I have like a 651 00:39:29,768 --> 00:39:32,058 little freebie, um, on my website. 652 00:39:32,993 --> 00:39:34,703 How to optimize your product page. 653 00:39:35,193 --> 00:39:39,233 So the main thing would be not to overwhelm them with all the 654 00:39:39,233 --> 00:39:41,393 information like front and center. 655 00:39:41,773 --> 00:39:47,313 You always want to start slowly so start off with the product description, the name 656 00:39:47,313 --> 00:39:52,643 of the product, the image of the product, and then slowly start talking about the 657 00:39:52,643 --> 00:39:59,548 benefits, why people should use it, and then Add in, um, a call to action to add 658 00:39:59,548 --> 00:40:05,158 to cart, give them some payment options, uh, like that's another pet peeve of mine. 659 00:40:05,168 --> 00:40:09,558 If they don't have payment options on that product page, I'm most 660 00:40:09,558 --> 00:40:13,378 likely going to click out of the website because I don't want to 661 00:40:13,378 --> 00:40:15,808 grab my wallet to make the purchase. 662 00:40:16,428 --> 00:40:20,988 So have different payment options like, you know, PayPal. 663 00:40:22,258 --> 00:40:25,768 Google Pay, like, the ones that make sense to your 664 00:40:25,993 --> 00:40:26,603 Yeah, yeah. 665 00:40:26,603 --> 00:40:26,893 yeah. 666 00:40:28,478 --> 00:40:35,118 and then also, um, like, have the testimonials of people who have 667 00:40:35,138 --> 00:40:39,288 purchased before, because nine times out of ten, people want to know what 668 00:40:39,288 --> 00:40:45,058 the experience was, uh, what the product is really like, so, having that, um, 669 00:40:45,438 --> 00:40:49,308 and, and then another thing is, not just having the testimonials, like, 670 00:40:49,308 --> 00:40:51,423 just Testimonials, here they are. 671 00:40:51,523 --> 00:40:58,493 But having something that catches the eye, like, you know, um, some color, uh, 672 00:40:58,723 --> 00:41:01,153 if you can, like, get a picture of them. 673 00:41:01,423 --> 00:41:04,983 Something that really shows people that people are buying this 674 00:41:04,983 --> 00:41:06,753 product and that it's amazing. 675 00:41:08,523 --> 00:41:09,693 That is so true. 676 00:41:09,753 --> 00:41:10,603 That is so true. 677 00:41:10,633 --> 00:41:14,088 I, the thing which really stood out to me there from what you were 678 00:41:14,088 --> 00:41:15,553 saying is the payment options. 679 00:41:15,863 --> 00:41:21,968 The buy with Apple Pay, the buy with, Um, PayPal, the buy with Google Pay, I mean 680 00:41:21,968 --> 00:41:26,658 I'm an Apple Pay guy all the time and I, I, I rarely get my wallet out these days, 681 00:41:26,678 --> 00:41:31,758 even when I go to the store, you know, and it's like, I was, whenever I go to a store 682 00:41:31,758 --> 00:41:36,758 and I can't pay with the tap, you know, of my phone, I'm just utterly confused now. 683 00:41:37,168 --> 00:41:39,618 Uh, I'm like, what do you mean I can't, I just stand like an old 684 00:41:39,618 --> 00:41:42,118 fool in the shop going, I don't know what to do, I don't know what to do. 685 00:41:42,568 --> 00:41:46,088 And so websites are quickly becoming a bit like this. 686 00:41:46,108 --> 00:41:48,738 It's like, well, I've got Apple Pay and I've got Google Pay. 687 00:41:48,738 --> 00:41:50,638 So why do I need anything else in my life? 688 00:41:50,638 --> 00:41:54,328 I can just tap a, you know, it reads my fingerprint and it's all done. 689 00:41:54,328 --> 00:41:55,568 Why do I, why do I need anything else? 690 00:41:56,208 --> 00:41:59,328 And so I think having those options are super, super important, aren't they? 691 00:41:59,338 --> 00:42:00,318 Super critical. 692 00:42:00,398 --> 00:42:03,528 And, um, I really like that. 693 00:42:03,728 --> 00:42:07,818 Again, that one step process, that quick and easy checkout, the ability 694 00:42:07,818 --> 00:42:09,358 to get out there super, super quick. 695 00:42:10,238 --> 00:42:15,518 Um, on the product page then, so you start off with basic product information. 696 00:42:15,518 --> 00:42:19,128 We're not overwhelming people and we're giving them as much information. 697 00:42:19,128 --> 00:42:20,838 I think, you know, product pages. 698 00:42:21,138 --> 00:42:22,338 can actually be quite long. 699 00:42:22,348 --> 00:42:25,088 You can give people as much information as they, they want to 700 00:42:25,088 --> 00:42:26,718 consume, I suppose, on that page. 701 00:42:27,158 --> 00:42:29,558 Um, and if they keep scrolling, they'll keep reading. 702 00:42:29,558 --> 00:42:31,748 If they don't, they'll just click the button and they'll, they'll 703 00:42:31,758 --> 00:42:32,788 be on out of there, won't they? 704 00:42:33,378 --> 00:42:38,808 Um, so one of the things that has always intrigued me, Diana, maybe you've seen 705 00:42:38,818 --> 00:42:41,998 this, maybe this was a Turkish lady, I don't know the Turkish towel lady, 706 00:42:43,038 --> 00:42:47,518 um, is when people, you go to their website and they have this product. 707 00:42:48,398 --> 00:42:51,738 And it's like a cut and paste description, right? 708 00:42:51,748 --> 00:42:56,118 So yes, I'm selling a towel that maybe 50 other websites are selling. 709 00:42:56,728 --> 00:42:59,708 And I've got the same description that everybody's used because they've 710 00:42:59,708 --> 00:43:01,458 all copied it from the same place. 711 00:43:01,488 --> 00:43:05,278 You know, it's all like this very dull, dreary description. 712 00:43:05,278 --> 00:43:07,938 It's very vanilla and there's no personality in it. 713 00:43:08,558 --> 00:43:10,128 And so one of the things that. 714 00:43:10,368 --> 00:43:14,298 Um, I loved about what you said and just bringing it all back with that, that 715 00:43:14,308 --> 00:43:20,838 brand voice is a great place to put your brand voices in that product description, 716 00:43:21,348 --> 00:43:26,868 uh, and have, have that sort of come through, especially with the advent of 717 00:43:26,868 --> 00:43:32,018 chat GPT 4, sorry to hark on about AI for those of you that are anti AI, but 718 00:43:32,018 --> 00:43:35,888 it can write some remarkable product descriptions in your tone of voice 719 00:43:35,888 --> 00:43:37,478 if you figure out the right prompts. 720 00:43:38,418 --> 00:43:39,538 And so actually. 721 00:43:40,383 --> 00:43:45,503 Writing something that people want to read and enjoy reading has 722 00:43:45,513 --> 00:43:47,043 tremendous conversion potential. 723 00:43:47,528 --> 00:43:49,908 Uh, events, I think, on your website. 724 00:43:50,228 --> 00:43:55,488 But if it's just the cut and paste, this is 4 inches by 5 inches, this has got 725 00:43:55,758 --> 00:44:00,558 30 threads per inch, this is beige, blue or brown, and it, you know, is machine 726 00:44:00,558 --> 00:44:02,348 washable at 40 degrees centigrade. 727 00:44:02,678 --> 00:44:06,688 It's kind of like, ugh, really, come on, um, whereas you, you could quite 728 00:44:06,688 --> 00:44:10,918 easily do something that's quite fun or luxurious or just something that 729 00:44:10,918 --> 00:44:12,378 fits in with your values, right? 730 00:44:13,458 --> 00:44:16,228 Right, yeah, and like you mentioned, you can now use 731 00:44:16,228 --> 00:44:18,708 ChatGPT, which I absolutely love. 732 00:44:19,078 --> 00:44:24,098 Um, which, uh, can also say that, with that, you also don't want to fall 733 00:44:24,098 --> 00:44:26,448 into the trap of copy and pasting. 734 00:44:26,458 --> 00:44:28,958 Like, you want to make sure that it's your brand voice. 735 00:44:29,468 --> 00:44:34,398 Uh, refining it, tweaking it, um, giving it direction so that it can actually... 736 00:44:35,423 --> 00:44:40,733 Come out with something that is, you know, yours and not just something that's like, 737 00:44:40,733 --> 00:44:46,803 first try, ChatGPT, let me put it on the product description, um, because I mean, 738 00:44:46,803 --> 00:44:52,113 I'm all for a ChatGPT, um, but you also know, have to know how to use it, so. 739 00:44:52,163 --> 00:44:52,803 yeah, you do. 740 00:44:52,913 --> 00:44:54,303 It's worth taking the time, isn't it? 741 00:44:54,613 --> 00:44:57,343 One of the things, as you're, as you're talking, I'm smiling, I'm like, I'm just 742 00:44:57,343 --> 00:45:01,253 picturing actually, because one of the things that you can do with ChatGPT is 743 00:45:01,253 --> 00:45:05,093 say, write this in the style of, you know, and you can write a famous person's name. 744 00:45:05,803 --> 00:45:09,883 And so I was just thinking that if I owned a website that was like a British sort of, 745 00:45:10,973 --> 00:45:15,643 Merch website, you know, like, um, we just sold British merch and, you know, with 746 00:45:15,653 --> 00:45:16,933 Union Jacks and all that sort of stuff. 747 00:45:17,243 --> 00:45:20,363 I'd be tempted to go to JackGPT and say, write this product description 748 00:45:20,363 --> 00:45:21,993 in the style of Winston Churchill. 749 00:45:23,793 --> 00:45:24,313 Do you know what I mean? 750 00:45:24,513 --> 00:45:26,353 Just to see what it would come up with. 751 00:45:26,703 --> 00:45:30,073 Uh, which I would end up, no doubt, tweaking, but I imagine it 752 00:45:30,073 --> 00:45:31,803 would be really quite interesting. 753 00:45:32,283 --> 00:45:34,593 Um, and have like a little cartoon Churchill on your 754 00:45:34,593 --> 00:45:35,813 website or something like that. 755 00:45:36,303 --> 00:45:39,493 Um, I wonder actually if you could, I'm sure you could, you could tell Chat G. 756 00:45:39,493 --> 00:45:39,663 P. 757 00:45:39,663 --> 00:45:39,833 T. 758 00:45:39,833 --> 00:45:42,533 to write in the style of the, you know, a sort of former Queen 759 00:45:42,533 --> 00:45:45,373 Elizabeth, because I imagine, or even King, the present King Charles. 760 00:45:45,943 --> 00:45:48,173 Uh, but somebody like Churchill, I think, would be quite funny. 761 00:45:48,343 --> 00:45:50,563 So you can do things like that now. 762 00:45:50,563 --> 00:45:53,623 There's no real excuses to not do them, other than... 763 00:45:53,998 --> 00:45:57,228 I just don't know what I'm doing, but you know, watch a few videos on YouTube 764 00:45:57,228 --> 00:46:01,038 and you can learn pretty much most things about chat GPT, um, especially 765 00:46:01,038 --> 00:46:02,418 when it comes to writing product copy. 766 00:46:02,438 --> 00:46:05,788 But like you say, don't just put it in copy and paste because it does sound very 767 00:46:05,788 --> 00:46:09,188 corporate, very boring, very vanilla, very quickly and gets very repetitive. 768 00:46:09,768 --> 00:46:13,248 Um, so do play around with it, but, um, no, it's awesome. 769 00:46:13,298 --> 00:46:13,858 That's great. 770 00:46:14,258 --> 00:46:15,108 Listen, Diana. 771 00:46:16,468 --> 00:46:17,428 That's some top tips. 772 00:46:17,438 --> 00:46:18,798 I've enjoyed this conversation. 773 00:46:19,098 --> 00:46:23,228 Like I said, it's one of those things where, um, don't get me wrong, every guest 774 00:46:23,228 --> 00:46:27,048 that comes on the show, I think I just, I do enjoy the conversation and sometimes we 775 00:46:27,048 --> 00:46:30,268 go deep, sometimes we get pretty advanced. 776 00:46:30,688 --> 00:46:33,768 And then there are times like this where it's like, I just, it's just 777 00:46:33,808 --> 00:46:37,868 good to go over the basics because wherever you are, um, whether you're 778 00:46:37,868 --> 00:46:40,828 starting out, whether you know you like us, you've got multi million pound 779 00:46:40,828 --> 00:46:43,868 sites or whether you've got a hundred million pound sites or, you know. 780 00:46:45,238 --> 00:46:47,978 You're on Amazon selling five billion dollars a year, wherever 781 00:46:47,978 --> 00:46:48,978 you are on that spectrum. 782 00:46:49,658 --> 00:46:55,238 Um, these principles, these basics apply to all of us and just revisiting 783 00:46:55,238 --> 00:46:58,678 your site and just going through actually what's our hero like? 784 00:46:58,958 --> 00:47:01,158 Do we offer multiple payment options? 785 00:47:01,598 --> 00:47:05,308 Um, just rethinking some of these things is always super, super helpful. 786 00:47:05,318 --> 00:47:05,708 So Diana. 787 00:47:07,128 --> 00:47:09,218 you for coming on and sharing your wisdom. 788 00:47:09,558 --> 00:47:13,188 Uh, if people want to reach out, if they want to connect with you, connect, uh, 789 00:47:13,198 --> 00:47:17,618 with what you're doing with the Shopify sites, um, find out more what it's like 790 00:47:17,618 --> 00:47:19,428 to raise a two year old, whatever it is. 791 00:47:19,468 --> 00:47:21,758 Uh, what's the best way to, to get a hold of you? 792 00:47:22,953 --> 00:47:27,733 Uh, so I have my website, it's, uh, simpsonswebdesign. 793 00:47:27,793 --> 00:47:33,633 com, and you can find pretty much, uh, like free resources and all the good 794 00:47:33,633 --> 00:47:38,433 stuff on there, and then I hang out on Instagram, uh, simpsons underscore 795 00:47:38,473 --> 00:47:44,143 webdesign, um, and yeah, so you'll find some live stories on there 796 00:47:44,153 --> 00:47:48,883 from me and my toddler, and Shopify tips, so all the goods on Instagram. 797 00:47:49,928 --> 00:47:50,518 Very good. 798 00:47:50,838 --> 00:47:53,688 Now, at the time of recording, and this might age the recording 799 00:47:53,688 --> 00:47:57,798 slightly, uh, Threads, Instagram Threads came out last night. 800 00:47:58,298 --> 00:48:00,118 Um, have you signed up for your Threads account? 801 00:48:01,248 --> 00:48:04,458 I have not, but I have heard so many stories already. 802 00:48:04,568 --> 00:48:05,908 Uh, I'm probably going to. 803 00:48:06,408 --> 00:48:08,468 Yeah, I was going to say, is this something you're going to do, I'm really, 804 00:48:08,788 --> 00:48:13,898 it's really, I've signed up for the Threads account, um, under my personal, 805 00:48:14,008 --> 00:48:18,558 uh, account as in Matt Edmundson, I say personal, but you know, my, my personal, 806 00:48:19,078 --> 00:48:22,858 yeah, my personal account, Matt Edmundson account, um, and I've signed up for 807 00:48:22,868 --> 00:48:27,958 the Threads and I've engaged in a few conversations, um, part of me wonders 808 00:48:27,958 --> 00:48:29,538 if it's going to be a bit of a fad. 809 00:48:29,998 --> 00:48:31,708 Do you know what I mean, where it's here today, gone tomorrow, 810 00:48:31,878 --> 00:48:38,938 um, I'm sort of 50 50, I'm on the fence a little bit at the moment. 811 00:48:39,633 --> 00:48:42,533 Um, but yeah, it'll be really interesting to see where that goes. 812 00:48:42,563 --> 00:48:47,153 But, we will of course, uh, put those links to your website and to 813 00:48:47,153 --> 00:48:51,643 your Instagram profile in the show notes, which you can get for free 814 00:48:51,643 --> 00:48:54,613 along with the transcript on the website, which is ecommercepodcast. 815 00:48:56,593 --> 00:48:57,223 net. 816 00:48:58,233 --> 00:49:00,523 Diona, thank you so much, uh, Diona, Diana. 817 00:49:00,963 --> 00:49:03,643 I've got a friend called Diona, she spells the name Diana, but 818 00:49:03,643 --> 00:49:04,863 I have to pronounce it Diona. 819 00:49:04,873 --> 00:49:05,443 This is why. 820 00:49:05,853 --> 00:49:07,153 Um, I don't know why. 821 00:49:07,493 --> 00:49:09,763 I just, that's just what I'm told. 822 00:49:09,803 --> 00:49:11,403 But Diana, thank you for coming on the show. 823 00:49:11,993 --> 00:49:14,053 Uh, super lovely to talk to you. 824 00:49:14,213 --> 00:49:17,253 Um, and it was funny because when we started recording, you were like, my 825 00:49:17,253 --> 00:49:19,953 two year old should be napping now, but he decided to wake up sooner. 826 00:49:20,243 --> 00:49:22,183 I think he's been remarkably well behaved. 827 00:49:22,243 --> 00:49:24,903 Uh, you know, we've, we've not really heard too much from him. 828 00:49:24,903 --> 00:49:25,533 So good on him. 829 00:49:25,533 --> 00:49:26,063 Well done. 830 00:49:27,898 --> 00:49:30,548 Yeah, it's been really fun talking with you, Matt, and I 831 00:49:30,578 --> 00:49:32,148 really enjoyed our conversation. 832 00:49:32,633 --> 00:49:33,463 That's been awesome. 833 00:49:33,473 --> 00:49:34,373 Thanks for coming on. 834 00:49:34,813 --> 00:49:35,883 Uh, it's been great. 835 00:49:35,883 --> 00:49:38,843 And as I said, we will of course link to Diana in. 836 00:49:39,243 --> 00:49:44,173 The show notes, so huge thanks again Miss Diana for joining me and also 837 00:49:44,183 --> 00:49:48,053 a big shout out to today's show sponsor, the e commerce cohort. 838 00:49:48,083 --> 00:49:51,393 Remember to check out their website, ecommercecohort. 839 00:49:52,023 --> 00:49:52,203 com. 840 00:49:52,203 --> 00:49:57,093 They also have free training, which I've done, I recorded and if you are 841 00:49:57,103 --> 00:49:59,523 regular to the show, you may have heard me talk about this before, if this is 842 00:49:59,523 --> 00:50:02,773 your first time and you've made it all the way to the end, you can get access. 843 00:50:03,033 --> 00:50:05,003 to that free training without an email. 844 00:50:05,003 --> 00:50:07,773 Just go and watch it at ecommercecycles. 845 00:50:07,873 --> 00:50:08,323 com. 846 00:50:09,053 --> 00:50:12,373 That's where I talk about the framework that I use to grow my e com businesses. 847 00:50:12,783 --> 00:50:14,643 Some of the stuff that Diana and I've been talking about 848 00:50:15,063 --> 00:50:16,193 in that course, check it out. 849 00:50:16,503 --> 00:50:19,663 Also be sure to follow the e commerce podcast wherever you get your 850 00:50:19,683 --> 00:50:22,933 podcasts from because we've got yet more great conversations lined up 851 00:50:22,933 --> 00:50:24,473 and I don't want you to miss it. 852 00:50:24,688 --> 00:50:26,598 Any of them at all? 853 00:50:26,808 --> 00:50:28,198 No, I don't. 854 00:50:28,458 --> 00:50:32,458 And in case no one has told you yet today, dear listener, let me be the first 855 00:50:32,458 --> 00:50:35,638 person to tell you, you are awesome. 856 00:50:35,738 --> 00:50:36,238 Yes, you are. 857 00:50:36,258 --> 00:50:37,108 Created awesome. 858 00:50:37,318 --> 00:50:39,248 It's just a burden you have to bear. 859 00:50:39,298 --> 00:50:43,588 Diana has to bear it, her two year old son has to bear it, I've got to bear 860 00:50:43,588 --> 00:50:45,228 it, and you've got to bear it as well. 861 00:50:45,533 --> 00:50:46,343 It's just the way it goes. 862 00:50:46,483 --> 00:50:49,603 Now, the e commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 863 00:50:49,923 --> 00:50:53,813 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favourite podcast app. 864 00:50:53,833 --> 00:50:57,983 The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon and Tanya Hutsuliak. 865 00:50:58,283 --> 00:51:00,663 Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson. 866 00:51:00,923 --> 00:51:05,173 And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show notes, head 867 00:51:05,173 --> 00:51:08,823 over to the website ecommercepodcast. 868 00:51:09,273 --> 00:51:09,823 net. 869 00:51:10,293 --> 00:51:11,323 That's it from me. 870 00:51:11,323 --> 00:51:12,143 That's it from Diana. 871 00:51:12,143 --> 00:51:13,823 Thank you so much for joining us. 872 00:51:14,318 --> 00:51:16,468 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 873 00:51:16,818 --> 00:51:17,798 I'll see you next time. 874 00:51:18,298 --> 00:51:18,778 Bye for now.