1 00:00:00,038 --> 00:00:01,018 Hello, friends. 2 00:00:01,048 --> 00:00:03,158 Welcome to this week's episode 3 00:00:03,364 --> 00:00:05,434 of the hourly to exit podcast. 4 00:00:05,839 --> 00:00:07,620 I'm here with a another 5 00:00:07,819 --> 00:00:09,530 edition of the copyright 6 00:00:09,530 --> 00:00:10,600 ability series. 7 00:00:10,815 --> 00:00:12,846 This is part two of three. 8 00:00:13,123 --> 00:00:14,794 Last week, talked 9 00:00:14,794 --> 00:00:16,234 about the originality 10 00:00:16,234 --> 00:00:17,824 requirement in order for 11 00:00:17,824 --> 00:00:20,570 something https: otter. 12 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,491 ai Copyright laws, it 13 00:00:22,575 --> 00:00:24,638 has to be copyrightable. 14 00:00:24,793 --> 00:00:26,023 And one of those requirements 15 00:00:26,083 --> 00:00:27,523 is that the material 16 00:00:27,523 --> 00:00:29,163 needs to be original. 17 00:00:29,361 --> 00:00:31,472 And so last week, we 18 00:00:31,472 --> 00:00:32,502 talked about that. 19 00:00:32,762 --> 00:00:33,678 This week, we're going 20 00:00:33,678 --> 00:00:34,938 to talk about something 21 00:00:34,938 --> 00:00:36,458 that is related to 22 00:00:36,488 --> 00:00:38,756 originality, which is. 23 00:00:38,885 --> 00:00:40,849 Derivative derivative works 24 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,755 and then next week we will 25 00:00:43,755 --> 00:00:46,504 talk about public domain 26 00:00:46,654 --> 00:00:48,703 materials and whether or 27 00:00:48,703 --> 00:00:50,093 not we can copyright those 28 00:00:50,133 --> 00:00:51,613 and how that relates to 29 00:00:51,841 --> 00:00:53,889 publicly available materials. 30 00:00:53,909 --> 00:00:54,719 I know there's a lot of 31 00:00:54,719 --> 00:00:55,729 confusion about that. 32 00:00:55,942 --> 00:00:57,579 Just so you know, I did 33 00:00:57,609 --> 00:00:59,559 a prior series about 34 00:00:59,619 --> 00:01:00,789 copyright infringement. 35 00:01:01,055 --> 00:01:02,985 So those were episodes 65, 36 00:01:02,985 --> 00:01:06,294 66, and 67, where I talked 37 00:01:06,294 --> 00:01:08,638 about, what constitutes a 38 00:01:08,718 --> 00:01:10,294 copyright infringement, how 39 00:01:10,294 --> 00:01:12,514 you can avoid accidentally 40 00:01:12,649 --> 00:01:14,281 infringing someone's copyright 41 00:01:14,439 --> 00:01:16,374 and steps you can take To 42 00:01:16,414 --> 00:01:18,244 minimize the possibility 43 00:01:18,436 --> 00:01:21,074 that you will be the victim 44 00:01:21,104 --> 00:01:22,674 of copyright infringement. 45 00:01:22,931 --> 00:01:24,941 So back to today, 46 00:01:25,113 --> 00:01:26,888 copyright ability with 47 00:01:26,888 --> 00:01:28,878 respect to derivatives. 48 00:01:29,428 --> 00:01:31,528 So I get questions like this. 49 00:01:32,006 --> 00:01:33,661 What makes something truly 50 00:01:33,661 --> 00:01:35,391 original versus derivative? 51 00:01:35,649 --> 00:01:37,601 We take so much from so 52 00:01:37,601 --> 00:01:38,981 many sources and develop 53 00:01:38,981 --> 00:01:40,141 our ideas from that. 54 00:01:40,403 --> 00:01:41,644 Another version of that 55 00:01:41,644 --> 00:01:43,151 is there are thousands of 56 00:01:43,151 --> 00:01:44,481 books on leadership and 57 00:01:44,591 --> 00:01:45,861 all of them do not have 58 00:01:45,991 --> 00:01:47,401 super original ideas. 59 00:01:47,756 --> 00:01:48,864 Is each book a 60 00:01:48,874 --> 00:01:50,374 copyrighted original? 61 00:01:50,666 --> 00:01:52,684 And so, I talk in depth 62 00:01:52,684 --> 00:01:54,304 about the original. 63 00:01:54,488 --> 00:01:56,004 and the originality standard 64 00:01:56,014 --> 00:01:58,524 in the prior episode, but 65 00:01:58,544 --> 00:02:00,391 briefly, the confusion when 66 00:02:00,391 --> 00:02:02,308 we use the term, original 67 00:02:02,348 --> 00:02:03,729 is that we think like, I'm 68 00:02:03,729 --> 00:02:05,109 an original and that means 69 00:02:05,109 --> 00:02:06,629 you're, absolutely unique 70 00:02:06,689 --> 00:02:08,719 and innovative and novel. 71 00:02:08,871 --> 00:02:10,136 And when we're talking about. 72 00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:11,389 originality in terms of 73 00:02:11,389 --> 00:02:12,469 copyright protection. 74 00:02:12,674 --> 00:02:14,263 It simply means that it 75 00:02:14,263 --> 00:02:16,433 was independently created 76 00:02:16,601 --> 00:02:18,286 that it is not copied. 77 00:02:18,508 --> 00:02:20,223 it is not that it is the 78 00:02:20,223 --> 00:02:22,163 most mind blowing original 79 00:02:22,163 --> 00:02:25,513 novel that anyone's ever 80 00:02:25,593 --> 00:02:27,806 expressed, but that it 81 00:02:27,846 --> 00:02:29,776 was independently created. 82 00:02:29,979 --> 00:02:30,999 And so. 83 00:02:31,209 --> 00:02:33,424 When we compare original 84 00:02:33,444 --> 00:02:35,651 versus derivative, think about 85 00:02:35,661 --> 00:02:37,591 derivative, on the other hand, 86 00:02:37,858 --> 00:02:39,394 is one of the rights that 87 00:02:39,394 --> 00:02:41,124 we have as copyright owners. 88 00:02:41,374 --> 00:02:43,064 So, briefly, when we are 89 00:02:43,064 --> 00:02:45,088 copyright owners, we have 90 00:02:45,088 --> 00:02:47,531 the exclusive rights to make 91 00:02:47,541 --> 00:02:49,648 copies, to distribute the 92 00:02:49,648 --> 00:02:51,671 work, to publicly perform the 93 00:02:51,671 --> 00:02:53,451 work, to publicly display the 94 00:02:53,451 --> 00:02:56,208 work, and to create derivative 95 00:02:56,218 --> 00:02:57,928 works from that work. 96 00:02:58,261 --> 00:02:59,411 creating derivative works 97 00:02:59,551 --> 00:03:00,891 is an exclusive right 98 00:03:00,971 --> 00:03:02,231 of the copyright owner. 99 00:03:02,431 --> 00:03:03,271 And so that's where this 100 00:03:03,591 --> 00:03:06,278 question comes from, can I be 101 00:03:06,338 --> 00:03:08,258 influenced by somebody else's 102 00:03:08,288 --> 00:03:10,664 work without, tripping into 103 00:03:10,694 --> 00:03:12,638 it being a derivative work? 104 00:03:12,944 --> 00:03:13,901 Just to get it out of the 105 00:03:13,901 --> 00:03:15,161 way, because I know you're 106 00:03:15,161 --> 00:03:16,944 all asking about it, I will 107 00:03:16,954 --> 00:03:18,714 start by having a brief 108 00:03:18,714 --> 00:03:21,124 conversation about fair use. 109 00:03:21,548 --> 00:03:23,518 So fair use is a legal 110 00:03:23,518 --> 00:03:25,601 doctrine that allows 111 00:03:25,884 --> 00:03:27,784 the limited use of 112 00:03:27,854 --> 00:03:29,014 copyrighted material 113 00:03:29,074 --> 00:03:30,931 without needing permission 114 00:03:30,941 --> 00:03:32,181 from the copyright owner. 115 00:03:32,408 --> 00:03:34,268 Remember, copyright ownership 116 00:03:34,288 --> 00:03:35,758 gives us exclusive rights. 117 00:03:35,758 --> 00:03:36,438 That means if somebody 118 00:03:36,438 --> 00:03:37,318 wants to do something 119 00:03:37,318 --> 00:03:38,178 with my copyrighted 120 00:03:38,178 --> 00:03:39,538 work, then they have to 121 00:03:39,538 --> 00:03:40,968 get permission from me. 122 00:03:41,154 --> 00:03:42,318 But fair use says there 123 00:03:42,318 --> 00:03:43,838 are limited circumstances 124 00:03:43,848 --> 00:03:45,538 where they can use your work 125 00:03:45,538 --> 00:03:46,768 without your permission. 126 00:03:47,021 --> 00:03:49,888 So basically, typically, 127 00:03:49,968 --> 00:03:50,758 and all these things are 128 00:03:50,798 --> 00:03:52,238 going to be generalizations. 129 00:03:52,238 --> 00:03:53,168 Of course, there's always 130 00:03:53,168 --> 00:03:54,654 going to be, fact specifics. 131 00:03:54,978 --> 00:03:56,616 But generally, when you're 132 00:03:56,626 --> 00:03:58,496 using fair use, you're taking 133 00:03:58,496 --> 00:04:00,629 that original work and you 134 00:04:00,669 --> 00:04:02,613 are, using it somehow, like, 135 00:04:02,763 --> 00:04:05,633 in commentary or, in, teaching 136 00:04:05,633 --> 00:04:07,643 or in education or research. 137 00:04:07,889 --> 00:04:09,456 and so it's not 138 00:04:09,456 --> 00:04:11,366 transformative nature of 139 00:04:11,366 --> 00:04:12,546 creating something new. 140 00:04:12,762 --> 00:04:14,239 It's about kind of taking. 141 00:04:14,472 --> 00:04:15,843 Your copyrighted work, 142 00:04:16,066 --> 00:04:18,216 some or all of it and using 143 00:04:18,216 --> 00:04:20,352 it, in a way that adding 144 00:04:20,352 --> 00:04:21,616 it to my thing in whole. 145 00:04:21,903 --> 00:04:23,373 So what we need to think 146 00:04:23,373 --> 00:04:25,453 about with fair use is that 147 00:04:25,543 --> 00:04:27,733 fair use is not a license. 148 00:04:28,111 --> 00:04:28,813 Because we're doing it 149 00:04:28,823 --> 00:04:29,873 without a license that is 150 00:04:29,873 --> 00:04:32,053 by definition, we are using 151 00:04:32,053 --> 00:04:34,373 that work without a license. 152 00:04:34,676 --> 00:04:37,366 So what it is, is it is a 153 00:04:37,366 --> 00:04:40,221 defense against a copyright 154 00:04:40,231 --> 00:04:41,371 infringement claim. 155 00:04:41,631 --> 00:04:43,351 So when we are relying on 156 00:04:43,481 --> 00:04:45,288 fair use, we are saying, 157 00:04:45,348 --> 00:04:46,738 I am going to use your 158 00:04:46,748 --> 00:04:48,275 copyrighted work without 159 00:04:48,275 --> 00:04:50,298 permission, because I think 160 00:04:50,368 --> 00:04:52,798 it falls under this exception 161 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,675 to require permission. 162 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,098 And that's all great. 163 00:04:57,538 --> 00:04:59,528 Unless you're the copyright 164 00:04:59,528 --> 00:05:01,408 owner disagrees with you. 165 00:05:01,630 --> 00:05:03,018 And chances are, if you 166 00:05:03,038 --> 00:05:04,418 hear from them, that means 167 00:05:04,418 --> 00:05:05,348 they disagree with you. 168 00:05:05,398 --> 00:05:06,751 They're not, checking in with 169 00:05:06,751 --> 00:05:07,621 you just to tell you what a 170 00:05:07,621 --> 00:05:09,141 brilliant job you did, maybe, 171 00:05:09,171 --> 00:05:10,698 but probably they're checking 172 00:05:10,698 --> 00:05:11,968 in with you because, hey. 173 00:05:12,151 --> 00:05:13,091 that's my work. 174 00:05:13,225 --> 00:05:14,021 You didn't ask me for 175 00:05:14,021 --> 00:05:16,351 permission and either, they 176 00:05:16,351 --> 00:05:17,661 want you to stop doing it 177 00:05:17,711 --> 00:05:18,801 or they want to be paid 178 00:05:18,801 --> 00:05:20,551 for it or maybe both. 179 00:05:20,825 --> 00:05:23,310 the only way to assert 180 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,763 your fair use defense 181 00:05:26,651 --> 00:05:28,050 is in court, right? 182 00:05:28,050 --> 00:05:28,650 Cause that's what 183 00:05:28,650 --> 00:05:29,250 a defense is. 184 00:05:29,260 --> 00:05:30,668 So it is, coming 185 00:05:30,668 --> 00:05:32,208 back and saying. 186 00:05:32,406 --> 00:05:33,001 You're right. 187 00:05:33,233 --> 00:05:34,035 I used it. 188 00:05:34,210 --> 00:05:35,415 I didn't get permission, 189 00:05:35,616 --> 00:05:36,711 but I'm not infringing 190 00:05:36,711 --> 00:05:37,441 your copyright. 191 00:05:37,441 --> 00:05:38,571 And this is why and 192 00:05:38,571 --> 00:05:40,441 that is fact specific. 193 00:05:40,580 --> 00:05:42,491 And that means that you 194 00:05:42,491 --> 00:05:44,698 need to make your case 195 00:05:45,123 --> 00:05:46,506 that it is a fair use. 196 00:05:46,848 --> 00:05:47,998 People will ask, you know, 197 00:05:47,998 --> 00:05:49,348 well, is there a percentage? 198 00:05:49,348 --> 00:05:51,334 Is it 5 percent or 10%? 199 00:05:51,370 --> 00:05:52,555 And there's not 200 00:05:52,676 --> 00:05:53,885 a formula for it. 201 00:05:54,278 --> 00:05:56,068 Courts have consistently 202 00:05:56,188 --> 00:05:57,038 refused to say 203 00:05:57,038 --> 00:05:57,858 there's a formula. 204 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,121 They have a framework for 205 00:06:01,121 --> 00:06:03,101 the court who's listening 206 00:06:03,141 --> 00:06:04,661 to it, to your case. 207 00:06:04,850 --> 00:06:07,410 To evaluate your facts, but 208 00:06:07,410 --> 00:06:08,680 they do not have a formula 209 00:06:08,700 --> 00:06:09,980 that you plug in and say, 210 00:06:09,980 --> 00:06:11,490 okay, I only took 1 page 211 00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:13,843 out of a 300 page novel. 212 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:15,800 So it's 1, 300 and 213 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:16,460 therefore it's for us. 214 00:06:16,530 --> 00:06:18,583 It's not, it could be the most 215 00:06:18,713 --> 00:06:20,220 important, maybe it's like 216 00:06:20,270 --> 00:06:22,320 the resolution of the entire. 217 00:06:22,439 --> 00:06:23,568 novel that you've taken 218 00:06:23,628 --> 00:06:25,003 like, is that fair use? 219 00:06:25,003 --> 00:06:25,323 Right? 220 00:06:25,588 --> 00:06:28,573 And so, fair use is user 221 00:06:28,643 --> 00:06:30,783 beware because there is no 222 00:06:30,783 --> 00:06:32,727 guarantee that you'll win. 223 00:06:32,935 --> 00:06:34,520 And even if you do, you've 224 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,360 expended a fair amount of 225 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:37,945 resources to get there. 226 00:06:38,095 --> 00:06:38,728 All right, so enough 227 00:06:38,728 --> 00:06:39,438 about fair use. 228 00:06:39,805 --> 00:06:40,568 I don't like fair use. 229 00:06:41,008 --> 00:06:41,745 So let's talk about 230 00:06:41,745 --> 00:06:42,535 derivative works. 231 00:06:42,788 --> 00:06:44,592 So again, a derivative work 232 00:06:44,795 --> 00:06:48,188 is a new original work that 233 00:06:48,198 --> 00:06:50,268 includes aspects of a pre 234 00:06:50,298 --> 00:06:52,098 existing copyrighted work. 235 00:06:52,342 --> 00:06:53,602 to create a derivative 236 00:06:53,602 --> 00:06:55,802 work, you need permission 237 00:06:55,852 --> 00:06:56,632 of the copyright. 238 00:06:57,025 --> 00:06:57,497 Holder. 239 00:06:57,537 --> 00:06:59,163 Remember the right to 240 00:06:59,163 --> 00:07:00,983 create derivative work is 241 00:07:01,083 --> 00:07:03,180 an exclusive right held 242 00:07:03,220 --> 00:07:04,570 by the copyright owner. 243 00:07:04,910 --> 00:07:06,967 So you need to get 244 00:07:06,967 --> 00:07:07,977 that right from the 245 00:07:07,977 --> 00:07:08,977 copyright owner, right? 246 00:07:09,145 --> 00:07:11,110 And so derivative works 247 00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:13,023 include things like sequels or 248 00:07:13,073 --> 00:07:15,940 adaptations or translations. 249 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:16,670 So something where 250 00:07:16,670 --> 00:07:17,270 you're taking. 251 00:07:17,497 --> 00:07:19,107 That original work pre 252 00:07:19,107 --> 00:07:21,007 existing copyrighted work, 253 00:07:21,203 --> 00:07:23,313 like a book, and you are 254 00:07:23,490 --> 00:07:24,877 adding some new elements 255 00:07:24,877 --> 00:07:26,947 to it, like a new language 256 00:07:27,007 --> 00:07:29,570 or making it a sequel or 257 00:07:29,620 --> 00:07:31,120 turning a book into a movie, 258 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,390 and so that new work, the 259 00:07:33,390 --> 00:07:34,880 derivative work is also 260 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:35,750 eligible for copyright 261 00:07:35,750 --> 00:07:38,117 protection, except if you 262 00:07:38,117 --> 00:07:40,207 don't have the right to use To 263 00:07:40,207 --> 00:07:41,437 create that derivative work. 264 00:07:41,437 --> 00:07:42,507 I don't care how original 265 00:07:42,507 --> 00:07:43,940 what you did like you create 266 00:07:43,967 --> 00:07:45,663 a sequel to Harry Potter. 267 00:07:45,703 --> 00:07:46,633 I don't care how 268 00:07:46,643 --> 00:07:47,703 original it is. 269 00:07:47,928 --> 00:07:48,997 If you don't have permission 270 00:07:48,997 --> 00:07:50,517 to create that sequel, then 271 00:07:50,527 --> 00:07:51,947 even the original parts 272 00:07:52,017 --> 00:07:53,877 of that are not eligible 273 00:07:53,887 --> 00:07:54,737 for copyright protection. 274 00:07:55,475 --> 00:07:55,740 All right. 275 00:07:55,750 --> 00:07:58,000 So, just to compare fair use. 276 00:07:58,227 --> 00:07:59,438 Versus derivative use, you 277 00:07:59,438 --> 00:08:00,222 know, that fair use is kind 278 00:08:00,222 --> 00:08:02,105 of taking some portion. 279 00:08:02,105 --> 00:08:03,495 I'm taking some portion 280 00:08:03,535 --> 00:08:05,082 of the Harry Potter book, 281 00:08:05,092 --> 00:08:06,565 and I'm putting it into 282 00:08:06,565 --> 00:08:08,548 some sort of, slide show 283 00:08:08,548 --> 00:08:10,125 that I'm creating, or I am 284 00:08:10,165 --> 00:08:12,245 having commentary about, the 285 00:08:12,245 --> 00:08:14,612 portrayal of, people with 286 00:08:14,782 --> 00:08:17,118 glasses in popular culture, 287 00:08:17,238 --> 00:08:19,763 or something versus taking. 288 00:08:19,938 --> 00:08:21,548 Harry Potter and 289 00:08:21,548 --> 00:08:22,708 creating a new work 290 00:08:22,768 --> 00:08:23,698 based on Harry Potter. 291 00:08:23,922 --> 00:08:24,248 All right. 292 00:08:24,515 --> 00:08:26,205 So if we get back to that 293 00:08:26,205 --> 00:08:28,265 question, what makes something 294 00:08:28,325 --> 00:08:30,445 original versus derivative? 295 00:08:30,792 --> 00:08:32,435 Well, that isn't the 296 00:08:32,435 --> 00:08:33,805 right question to ask. 297 00:08:34,288 --> 00:08:35,472 And for a couple of reasons, 298 00:08:35,532 --> 00:08:38,875 one, it suggests that there is 299 00:08:38,905 --> 00:08:41,315 some kind of continuum between 300 00:08:41,315 --> 00:08:43,372 original and derivative. 301 00:08:43,542 --> 00:08:45,768 Like we started, once and it's 302 00:08:45,912 --> 00:08:47,015 For me on the left, because I 303 00:08:47,015 --> 00:08:48,738 go left to right is something 304 00:08:48,738 --> 00:08:50,875 completely original right with 305 00:08:51,055 --> 00:08:54,378 not copying or using any 3rd 306 00:08:54,378 --> 00:08:55,928 party material of any kind. 307 00:08:56,158 --> 00:08:57,982 we kind of go and yeah, we 308 00:08:58,175 --> 00:08:59,152 corporate a little bit that 309 00:08:59,152 --> 00:08:59,882 I got from someone else. 310 00:08:59,882 --> 00:09:01,092 So it's mostly original. 311 00:09:01,092 --> 00:09:01,492 I'm having a 312 00:09:01,492 --> 00:09:03,085 little bit or it's. 313 00:09:03,357 --> 00:09:04,780 my idea, but I've 314 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:05,790 incorporated some stuff 315 00:09:05,790 --> 00:09:06,570 from some other people. 316 00:09:06,570 --> 00:09:07,487 So it's, a little 317 00:09:07,497 --> 00:09:09,177 less original. 318 00:09:09,217 --> 00:09:09,647 Right. 319 00:09:09,837 --> 00:09:11,723 And then at some point, as 320 00:09:11,723 --> 00:09:13,403 I continue to incorporate 321 00:09:13,413 --> 00:09:15,673 somebody else's stuff, it 322 00:09:15,793 --> 00:09:17,343 flips over into derivative 323 00:09:17,610 --> 00:09:19,690 and it doesn't work like that. 324 00:09:19,923 --> 00:09:21,823 copying is very. 325 00:09:22,060 --> 00:09:22,858 Binary. 326 00:09:23,115 --> 00:09:24,778 So either it's 327 00:09:24,778 --> 00:09:26,348 original or it's not. 328 00:09:26,522 --> 00:09:28,172 So if you've copied anything 329 00:09:28,212 --> 00:09:30,378 from somebody else and by 330 00:09:30,378 --> 00:09:31,738 copying, I literally mean 331 00:09:31,738 --> 00:09:33,818 copying, then it doesn't 332 00:09:33,818 --> 00:09:35,038 matter how small it is. 333 00:09:35,385 --> 00:09:36,915 It's not original. 334 00:09:37,185 --> 00:09:39,695 And derivative is a 335 00:09:39,875 --> 00:09:41,948 separate right under 336 00:09:42,068 --> 00:09:43,878 copyright law than copying. 337 00:09:43,918 --> 00:09:45,558 Remember copying is its 338 00:09:45,648 --> 00:09:47,308 own standalone, right? 339 00:09:47,515 --> 00:09:49,385 Under copyright law and 340 00:09:49,535 --> 00:09:50,935 creating derivative works 341 00:09:51,065 --> 00:09:52,595 is its own standalone 342 00:09:52,695 --> 00:09:54,342 right under copyright law. 343 00:09:54,442 --> 00:09:55,882 If it were the same thing, 344 00:09:56,048 --> 00:09:56,848 there would be two of them. 345 00:09:57,055 --> 00:09:57,568 They're different. 346 00:09:57,808 --> 00:10:01,045 And so someone can create 347 00:10:01,045 --> 00:10:02,668 a derivative without 348 00:10:02,758 --> 00:10:04,865 actually copying anything. 349 00:10:05,048 --> 00:10:07,012 So, let's take Harry Potter. 350 00:10:07,168 --> 00:10:09,958 If I don't copy a single word 351 00:10:10,118 --> 00:10:13,522 out of a, Rowling's, book. 352 00:10:13,746 --> 00:10:14,598 But I... 353 00:10:14,628 --> 00:10:17,155 create a novel that is 354 00:10:17,155 --> 00:10:21,415 based on a, boy wizard who, 355 00:10:21,585 --> 00:10:24,592 fought an evil Lord and 356 00:10:24,592 --> 00:10:27,242 survived, death as an infant. 357 00:10:27,462 --> 00:10:29,132 but I've not copied 358 00:10:29,328 --> 00:10:31,312 anything from the novel. 359 00:10:31,518 --> 00:10:33,012 And I create a new 360 00:10:33,012 --> 00:10:34,392 series based on that. 361 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,273 I have, infringed on her 362 00:10:38,273 --> 00:10:40,270 JK Rawlings right to create 363 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,010 derivative works based on 364 00:10:42,020 --> 00:10:44,227 her Harry Potter novels, even 365 00:10:44,227 --> 00:10:45,987 though I have not literally 366 00:10:46,198 --> 00:10:48,147 copied any part of her novel. 367 00:10:48,395 --> 00:10:50,928 this is where it gets tricky, 368 00:10:51,143 --> 00:10:53,392 which is, are we taking an 369 00:10:53,422 --> 00:10:56,712 idea which is permissible? 370 00:10:56,827 --> 00:10:58,678 We cannot copyright ideas. 371 00:10:59,110 --> 00:11:01,802 Versus have we taken so 372 00:11:01,802 --> 00:11:04,620 much of an idea that is 373 00:11:04,968 --> 00:11:08,700 unique, like a boy wizard 374 00:11:08,912 --> 00:11:10,072 he was almost killed as an 375 00:11:10,072 --> 00:11:12,372 infant who defeats a Lord. 376 00:11:12,547 --> 00:11:14,172 And created something 377 00:11:14,352 --> 00:11:15,725 that trips us into 378 00:11:15,725 --> 00:11:16,995 being a derivative. 379 00:11:17,355 --> 00:11:20,455 And so there is a continuum 380 00:11:20,465 --> 00:11:22,982 there, not between how much 381 00:11:23,042 --> 00:11:24,628 is copied and how much is 382 00:11:24,628 --> 00:11:26,115 derivative, but there's 383 00:11:26,115 --> 00:11:28,045 a continuum between the 384 00:11:28,045 --> 00:11:30,565 nature of the idea that 385 00:11:30,565 --> 00:11:32,235 you're taking and whether 386 00:11:32,235 --> 00:11:33,015 or not you're using it to 387 00:11:33,015 --> 00:11:34,495 create a derivative from it. 388 00:11:34,767 --> 00:11:35,187 I think it's 389 00:11:35,187 --> 00:11:36,557 fairly easy to see. 390 00:11:36,985 --> 00:11:37,813 Please let me know if it's 391 00:11:37,813 --> 00:11:39,647 not, when we look at literary 392 00:11:39,647 --> 00:11:41,197 fiction example, like Harry 393 00:11:41,197 --> 00:11:43,455 Potter versus what we do 394 00:11:43,654 --> 00:11:44,895 and what we do every day. 395 00:11:45,112 --> 00:11:47,803 And so, when we are influenced 396 00:11:47,943 --> 00:11:49,413 and create our expertise, 397 00:11:49,533 --> 00:11:50,643 you know, we are taking 398 00:11:50,643 --> 00:11:52,243 in ideas all the time 399 00:11:52,243 --> 00:11:53,313 and we are incorporating 400 00:11:53,323 --> 00:11:54,873 them into our work. 401 00:11:55,034 --> 00:11:56,755 We are improving upon them. 402 00:11:56,755 --> 00:11:57,695 We are seeing them 403 00:11:57,695 --> 00:11:58,755 from new ways. 404 00:11:58,755 --> 00:11:59,805 We're writing about it. 405 00:12:00,015 --> 00:12:01,518 there's not align. 406 00:12:01,528 --> 00:12:02,928 There's not a bright line 407 00:12:03,093 --> 00:12:04,915 where it's idea idea idea. 408 00:12:04,915 --> 00:12:06,245 I'm taking an idea idea and 409 00:12:06,245 --> 00:12:08,075 then it becomes a derivative. 410 00:12:08,278 --> 00:12:09,398 So that's what's kind of, 411 00:12:09,602 --> 00:12:11,635 that it depends part so 412 00:12:11,635 --> 00:12:13,435 much of legal analysis. 413 00:12:13,855 --> 00:12:15,845 That it really does depend 414 00:12:15,885 --> 00:12:17,325 on the circumstances. 415 00:12:17,648 --> 00:12:18,888 So the question about 416 00:12:18,898 --> 00:12:19,808 leadership books, for 417 00:12:19,808 --> 00:12:21,925 instance, there are a lot 418 00:12:21,925 --> 00:12:23,342 of leadership books and 419 00:12:23,342 --> 00:12:25,002 there are lots of generic 420 00:12:25,002 --> 00:12:26,332 leadership skills that we 421 00:12:26,332 --> 00:12:28,512 learn throughout our careers. 422 00:12:28,878 --> 00:12:30,605 And so if we're talking about, 423 00:12:30,605 --> 00:12:32,375 you the way to build culture 424 00:12:32,375 --> 00:12:34,048 and, you to lead by example 425 00:12:34,048 --> 00:12:36,018 and reward the behaviors you 426 00:12:36,018 --> 00:12:36,888 want to see and things like 427 00:12:37,038 --> 00:12:38,294 that that are considered 428 00:12:38,304 --> 00:12:40,519 generally Generic leadership 429 00:12:40,519 --> 00:12:43,056 skills, and for me to write 430 00:12:43,056 --> 00:12:44,709 about that, even though I 431 00:12:44,769 --> 00:12:45,889 read it in somebody else's 432 00:12:45,889 --> 00:12:48,252 book is without copying, but 433 00:12:48,252 --> 00:12:50,112 taking the ideas about how 434 00:12:50,112 --> 00:12:51,292 to build leadership skills 435 00:12:51,539 --> 00:12:53,412 is working with an idea, 436 00:12:53,619 --> 00:12:56,209 but let's say someone has. 437 00:12:56,536 --> 00:12:58,731 Written about, some very 438 00:12:58,731 --> 00:13:00,841 innovative, very distinctive 439 00:13:00,881 --> 00:13:02,181 leadership skills that 440 00:13:02,191 --> 00:13:03,741 everyone immediately knows. 441 00:13:03,741 --> 00:13:05,231 I wish I had a good example 442 00:13:05,446 --> 00:13:06,799 a real life example of 443 00:13:06,799 --> 00:13:08,576 someone who does something 444 00:13:08,616 --> 00:13:10,817 radically different in order 445 00:13:10,817 --> 00:13:12,724 to, create leadership skills. 446 00:13:12,881 --> 00:13:13,731 and I can't even say, 447 00:13:13,731 --> 00:13:14,484 like, going out in 448 00:13:14,484 --> 00:13:15,114 wilderness things. 449 00:13:15,274 --> 00:13:16,064 I know that the people who 450 00:13:16,064 --> 00:13:17,354 do that, but someone who does 451 00:13:17,364 --> 00:13:18,444 something radically different. 452 00:13:18,697 --> 00:13:20,956 Now, for you to take that 453 00:13:20,996 --> 00:13:21,986 idea, even though you 454 00:13:21,986 --> 00:13:23,766 don't copy the words from 455 00:13:23,766 --> 00:13:25,332 their book, but you take 456 00:13:25,332 --> 00:13:26,742 their radically different 457 00:13:26,742 --> 00:13:28,432 way of teaching leadership 458 00:13:28,432 --> 00:13:29,932 skills and you use them to 459 00:13:29,932 --> 00:13:31,262 create your own training 460 00:13:31,262 --> 00:13:32,922 program, that starts to 461 00:13:32,922 --> 00:13:35,309 look like a derivative work. 462 00:13:35,511 --> 00:13:36,589 And I say it looks like 463 00:13:36,589 --> 00:13:38,104 it because it really would 464 00:13:38,104 --> 00:13:40,054 need more analysis to know 465 00:13:40,054 --> 00:13:41,897 exactly whether or not you 466 00:13:41,897 --> 00:13:42,917 create a derivative work. 467 00:13:43,132 --> 00:13:45,049 And, to make an analogy 468 00:13:45,049 --> 00:13:46,159 that maybe will help 469 00:13:46,189 --> 00:13:47,369 also drive this home. 470 00:13:47,616 --> 00:13:49,782 if we think about, sent 471 00:13:49,782 --> 00:13:51,536 a fair in literature. 472 00:13:51,746 --> 00:13:52,976 it is a French term that 473 00:13:52,976 --> 00:13:54,536 refers to the situations, 474 00:13:54,536 --> 00:13:55,606 characters, settings, or 475 00:13:55,626 --> 00:13:57,189 incidents that are standard 476 00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:58,689 or customary in a particular 477 00:13:58,689 --> 00:14:00,766 genre, and therefore 478 00:14:00,786 --> 00:14:01,986 they aren't protectable. 479 00:14:02,106 --> 00:14:03,609 So, scenes d'affaires 480 00:14:03,689 --> 00:14:04,629 are not protectable 481 00:14:04,659 --> 00:14:05,549 under copyright law. 482 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:07,589 So examples of that would be, 483 00:14:07,712 --> 00:14:09,839 in a vampire movie, that the 484 00:14:09,839 --> 00:14:11,129 vampire sleeps in a casket and 485 00:14:11,129 --> 00:14:11,829 they can't go out during the 486 00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:13,856 day and they don't eat garlic 487 00:14:13,856 --> 00:14:15,282 or are afraid of garlic. 488 00:14:15,464 --> 00:14:16,299 Those aren't protectable 489 00:14:16,299 --> 00:14:18,279 elements, but if you have 490 00:14:18,299 --> 00:14:20,502 a vampire who, travels to 491 00:14:20,502 --> 00:14:21,652 the dark side of the moon 492 00:14:21,662 --> 00:14:22,582 or to get away from the 493 00:14:22,632 --> 00:14:25,722 sun, that is not even that 494 00:14:25,722 --> 00:14:27,652 would not qualify as a 495 00:14:27,702 --> 00:14:29,094 sense of air and it would 496 00:14:29,104 --> 00:14:30,824 be protectable that concept. 497 00:14:31,008 --> 00:14:32,817 Even if you don't, copy 498 00:14:32,817 --> 00:14:34,877 the words from that novel, 499 00:14:34,907 --> 00:14:36,247 but if you take the concept 500 00:14:36,267 --> 00:14:37,687 of a vampire that travels 501 00:14:37,687 --> 00:14:38,347 to the dark side of the 502 00:14:38,357 --> 00:14:39,591 moon, Maybe there's a lot 503 00:14:39,591 --> 00:14:40,231 of books out there with 504 00:14:40,231 --> 00:14:43,017 that, but, you it may be 505 00:14:43,017 --> 00:14:44,527 that would be derivative. 506 00:14:44,597 --> 00:14:44,977 Right? 507 00:14:45,164 --> 00:14:47,724 And so it is nuanced. 508 00:14:48,111 --> 00:14:49,574 There is not a bright line 509 00:14:49,774 --> 00:14:52,114 like fair use something 510 00:14:52,311 --> 00:14:53,224 you're taking 1 of these 511 00:14:53,254 --> 00:14:55,414 non literary features. 512 00:14:55,414 --> 00:14:56,414 Like, you're not literally 513 00:14:56,414 --> 00:14:58,534 copying, but you're using. 514 00:14:58,712 --> 00:15:00,152 some distinctive and 515 00:15:00,152 --> 00:15:02,072 protectable elements of the 516 00:15:02,072 --> 00:15:04,046 original work and so that 517 00:15:04,169 --> 00:15:06,499 people would identify your 518 00:15:06,499 --> 00:15:08,539 work with the other work. 519 00:15:08,766 --> 00:15:09,446 someone mentioned 520 00:15:09,446 --> 00:15:10,616 this that if. 521 00:15:10,846 --> 00:15:12,746 a normal person read your 522 00:15:12,746 --> 00:15:14,979 work and they assumed that 523 00:15:14,979 --> 00:15:16,956 it was based on some other 524 00:15:16,956 --> 00:15:18,702 known person's work, then 525 00:15:18,712 --> 00:15:20,242 probably it is a derivative. 526 00:15:20,289 --> 00:15:21,102 that is just if we 527 00:15:21,102 --> 00:15:22,102 wanted to have some 528 00:15:22,102 --> 00:15:23,732 kind of really rough. 529 00:15:24,064 --> 00:15:25,914 Test that would be like, would 530 00:15:25,914 --> 00:15:27,034 it just kind of the ordinary 531 00:15:27,034 --> 00:15:28,857 person go, Oh, this must 532 00:15:28,857 --> 00:15:30,907 be, based on, Harry Potter, 533 00:15:30,907 --> 00:15:32,447 because this kid's got, a 534 00:15:32,447 --> 00:15:33,407 lightning scar on his head. 535 00:15:33,801 --> 00:15:35,461 All right, that is the best 536 00:15:35,661 --> 00:15:38,326 we can do without looking at 537 00:15:38,326 --> 00:15:39,757 the specific circumstances. 538 00:15:40,044 --> 00:15:41,012 that brings us to, 539 00:15:41,032 --> 00:15:42,392 okay, how do I. 540 00:15:42,561 --> 00:15:44,161 Navigate, the fact that 541 00:15:44,161 --> 00:15:45,371 I'm out here in the world 542 00:15:45,622 --> 00:15:47,381 consuming information 543 00:15:47,381 --> 00:15:48,291 from all over the place. 544 00:15:48,576 --> 00:15:49,767 And I'd like to leave 545 00:15:49,767 --> 00:15:51,531 you with what we call the 546 00:15:51,531 --> 00:15:53,371 golden rule of copyrights 547 00:15:54,021 --> 00:15:55,447 And that is if you 548 00:15:55,447 --> 00:15:56,267 didn't create it. 549 00:15:56,534 --> 00:15:57,514 Then you don't own it 550 00:15:57,722 --> 00:15:59,391 and you can't use it 551 00:15:59,401 --> 00:16:00,461 without permission. 552 00:16:00,692 --> 00:16:01,771 And so that is kind of 553 00:16:01,791 --> 00:16:03,627 the fundamental principle 554 00:16:03,627 --> 00:16:05,241 of copyright law, which 555 00:16:05,241 --> 00:16:06,331 is to protect the rights 556 00:16:06,451 --> 00:16:07,937 of the creators, that the 557 00:16:07,937 --> 00:16:08,767 right that the creator 558 00:16:08,767 --> 00:16:10,377 has over their original 559 00:16:10,377 --> 00:16:12,494 work, it grants exclusive 560 00:16:12,494 --> 00:16:14,394 rights to the creator. 561 00:16:14,706 --> 00:16:15,626 when we are in the 562 00:16:15,626 --> 00:16:17,076 expertise-based business. 563 00:16:17,477 --> 00:16:20,584 our inventory is copyrighted 564 00:16:20,584 --> 00:16:22,107 works generally when we 565 00:16:22,107 --> 00:16:23,177 are creating deliverables 566 00:16:23,197 --> 00:16:23,937 for our clients. 567 00:16:24,271 --> 00:16:25,207 Generally that is a 568 00:16:25,207 --> 00:16:26,821 copyrighted work when we 569 00:16:26,871 --> 00:16:29,151 are delivering a program, 570 00:16:29,301 --> 00:16:30,741 you know, a training, that's 571 00:16:30,864 --> 00:16:32,087 generally a copyrighted work. 572 00:16:32,401 --> 00:16:33,254 Typically. 573 00:16:33,441 --> 00:16:35,451 what work trade is, is the 574 00:16:35,451 --> 00:16:36,831 delivery of copyrighted works. 575 00:16:37,257 --> 00:16:38,027 so I'll call that 576 00:16:38,027 --> 00:16:38,857 our inventory. 577 00:16:38,857 --> 00:16:39,854 When when we create 578 00:16:39,864 --> 00:16:41,487 inventory, that means we 579 00:16:41,487 --> 00:16:42,957 need raw materials, right? 580 00:16:42,957 --> 00:16:43,877 We need to get in order 581 00:16:43,877 --> 00:16:45,317 to create inventory. 582 00:16:45,484 --> 00:16:46,740 We need raw materials. 583 00:16:47,124 --> 00:16:47,992 And some of that will 584 00:16:47,992 --> 00:16:49,629 come from us from just our 585 00:16:49,629 --> 00:16:51,825 experiences in the world, from 586 00:16:51,895 --> 00:16:53,612 the certifications that we've 587 00:16:53,612 --> 00:16:56,308 received that, maybe a prior 588 00:16:56,318 --> 00:16:58,262 job and some things that we 589 00:16:58,262 --> 00:17:00,192 read some books that we read 590 00:17:00,342 --> 00:17:01,762 some courses that we took. 591 00:17:01,976 --> 00:17:03,512 And those are all things 592 00:17:03,710 --> 00:17:05,230 that are raw materials in 593 00:17:05,230 --> 00:17:06,780 creating our inventory, but 594 00:17:06,830 --> 00:17:08,440 all of those things when 595 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,890 we are experts are also 596 00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:12,880 copyrighted works being. 597 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,510 That is somebody else's 598 00:17:14,530 --> 00:17:16,496 property when we are 599 00:17:16,675 --> 00:17:18,446 taking, parts of somebody's, 600 00:17:18,733 --> 00:17:19,643 course, or parts of 601 00:17:19,643 --> 00:17:21,353 somebody's book or, parts 602 00:17:21,353 --> 00:17:22,563 of somebody else's training. 603 00:17:22,893 --> 00:17:25,086 And so we should no longer. 604 00:17:25,283 --> 00:17:28,685 Expect to receive for free 605 00:17:28,835 --> 00:17:30,555 the raw materials to create 606 00:17:30,715 --> 00:17:32,771 our inventory than a car 607 00:17:32,771 --> 00:17:34,491 manufacturer would expect 608 00:17:34,501 --> 00:17:36,861 to receive for free the raw 609 00:17:36,861 --> 00:17:38,618 materials to create their 610 00:17:38,628 --> 00:17:39,938 inventory, which is cars 611 00:17:40,198 --> 00:17:42,281 just because our inventory 612 00:17:42,301 --> 00:17:43,501 is intellectual and the raw 613 00:17:43,511 --> 00:17:44,901 materials are intellectual 614 00:17:45,041 --> 00:17:47,185 does not mean it isn't a real. 615 00:17:47,325 --> 00:17:49,371 Asset with value with 616 00:17:49,431 --> 00:17:51,401 a owner who has a right 617 00:17:51,481 --> 00:17:52,501 to be paid for it. 618 00:17:52,845 --> 00:17:54,495 So that would be the golden 619 00:17:54,555 --> 00:17:56,161 rule of copyrights and that 620 00:17:56,181 --> 00:17:58,845 is mutual when we build a 621 00:17:58,905 --> 00:18:01,035 culture of, the golden rule 622 00:18:01,035 --> 00:18:02,285 of copyright, people are 623 00:18:02,285 --> 00:18:03,695 respecting your rights as 624 00:18:03,705 --> 00:18:05,648 a creator and you respect 625 00:18:05,678 --> 00:18:06,828 their rights as a creator. 626 00:18:07,221 --> 00:18:08,691 And so, not that I think 627 00:18:08,691 --> 00:18:09,821 that anyone is doing 628 00:18:09,881 --> 00:18:11,815 anything, they're trying 629 00:18:11,905 --> 00:18:14,335 to intentionally infringe 630 00:18:14,335 --> 00:18:15,685 on anyone's copyright. 631 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,401 But this is where we get into 632 00:18:17,401 --> 00:18:19,191 that unintentional copyright 633 00:18:19,201 --> 00:18:21,198 infringement territory when 634 00:18:21,198 --> 00:18:23,666 we are trying to parse, what 635 00:18:23,686 --> 00:18:25,146 percentage is somebody's 636 00:18:25,351 --> 00:18:27,690 material I can use to you. 637 00:18:27,982 --> 00:18:29,602 So the Copyright Ability 638 00:18:29,622 --> 00:18:30,902 Series is sponsored 639 00:18:30,902 --> 00:18:32,392 by Think Beyond IP. 640 00:18:32,684 --> 00:18:34,665 Think Beyond IP helps B2B 641 00:18:34,705 --> 00:18:36,225 experts with corporate clients 642 00:18:36,285 --> 00:18:37,625 lay the intellectual property 643 00:18:37,625 --> 00:18:39,590 foundation required to build 644 00:18:39,620 --> 00:18:41,690 new scalable revenue streams. 645 00:18:42,124 --> 00:18:44,154 Think Beyond IP has the legal 646 00:18:44,154 --> 00:18:45,734 expertise and the corporate 647 00:18:45,734 --> 00:18:47,774 experience to provide expert 648 00:18:47,774 --> 00:18:49,294 focus to the issues that 649 00:18:49,294 --> 00:18:51,059 matter most to you and to 650 00:18:51,059 --> 00:18:52,089 your corporate clients. 651 00:18:52,526 --> 00:18:54,036 And also please check 652 00:18:54,036 --> 00:18:55,216 out thinkbeyondip. 653 00:18:55,216 --> 00:18:57,006 com to get your free 654 00:18:57,241 --> 00:18:59,079 assessment is your 655 00:18:59,159 --> 00:19:00,479 expertise copyrightable. 656 00:19:00,479 --> 00:19:01,298 All right. 657 00:19:01,461 --> 00:19:02,211 Thanks again. 658 00:19:02,339 --> 00:19:02,950 See you next time.