Matt Edmundson: Welcome to this week's Crowd Church service.
We are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps
us live a more meaningful life.
We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place
where you can contribute and grow.
I want to invite you to connect with us here at Crowd Church and there are
a few ways that you can do just that.
Firstly, you can engage with crowd from any device during our live
stream, and if you're up for it, why not invite a few friends over
and experience the service together.
Church is all about connecting with God and connecting with others, and
one of the easiest ways for you to do that is to also join one of our
mid week groups where we meet online together to catch up and discover
more about the amazingness of Christ.
You can also subscribe to our podcast called What's the Story, where we
deep dive into stories of faith and courage from everyday people.
More information about all of these things that I've mentioned can
be found on our website at www.
crowd.
church.
Or you can reach us on social media at crowd.
church.
Crowd Church.
If you're new to Crowd or new to the Christian faith and would like to know
what your next steps to take are, why not head over to our website crowd.
church forward slash next for more details.
And now the moment you've been waiting for is here.
Our online church service starts right now.
Good evening and welcome to Crowd Online Church.
Now, if you are watching this on YouTube or Facebook, it's going to feel a
little bit different because normally there is someone sat right next to me.
And there is, but there's a bit of a gap because I can I just flipped
this switch and there's Oh, hello.
There's Will.
Will Sopwith: We are multi platforming.
Matt Edmundson: We are multi platforming tonight, ladies and gentlemen.
For the first time ever, we are live streaming on Instagram as well.
Hence the reason we have two camera setups.
If you're on Instagram, it will make much more sense.
But hopefully we're going to keep it real, but it's a massive experiment, right?
Will Sopwith: It is I have never been multi platforms before.
It's incredibly exciting.
Matt Edmundson: Let, but let's see how it goes.
Yeah, you really need to be careful who you say that
Just putting that out there.
But technically we multi-platform every week.
'cause we go to No that's very true.
YouTube and to Facebook.
But now we've had it already.
We've only just started.
Come on.
Added the gram.
So yes.
So if you are watching us on Instagram, a very warm welcome to you.
It's great that you are here.
Do write in the comments.
It'd be great to see if anyone watches it on Instagram.
It is a bit of a trial.
We do, we appreciate that and we're going to see how it goes.
And Dan Orange, if you're watching, you are going to have to do this next week.
Will Sopwith: That's on the other end of the phone though.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah no.
Next week is my birthday.
Will Sopwith: Is
Matt Edmundson: it?
Yeah.
Happy birthday.
Next Sunday is my birthday and our will be thirty three.
Fantastic.
Let's finally reach that
Will Sopwith: milestone.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
It's great news, isn't it?
And yeah, but actually, next week, I'm on a course from 7:45 in the morning till
7 o'clock, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Wow.
So I am, I'm literally going to be incognito next, and I might actually
try and sneak crowd at the end of the course if it's boring, but yeah.
Will Sopwith: I hope it's interesting three days of that,
like 12 hour days on your birthday.
It's got to be good.
Matt Edmundson: It was supposed to be this Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday, but they moved it.
To the weekend.
So anyway that aside, warm welcome to Crowd Church.
If you don't know us already, my name is Matt.
Beside me, this rather handsome chap is Will Sopwith.
Hello everyone.
And it's great that you are with us too, with our online church
service now on three platforms, streaming live on three platforms.
Do say hi in the comments.
It'd be great to hear from you.
Matt says happy 500th birthday to Matt.
Charming.
It's unlike Crew to be rude.
Will Sopwith: It is.
It is unlike him, actually.
Did you know that
Matt Edmundson: Crew is the Greek word for rude?
Oh, we're just joking, obviously.
But yeah, a warm welcome to you.
Whatever platform you're on, it'd be great to hear from you.
Do say hi in the comments.
What have we got coming up today, Mr.
Will?
Will Sopwith: We have got the wonderful Dave Connolly giving an overview of
the gifts of the Holy Spirit at the beginning of a new I believe new season
in crowds talking about the Holy Spirit.
So please have your questions and your comments ready and yeah, we'll
be chatting a little bit further after the talk from Dave Kohn.
Matt Edmundson: Yes, we will.
So without further ado, again, this is an experiment with the talk for today.
So again, if you're watching on Instagram, let us know how this works out.
I've actually got it on my phone here as well.
Oh, I've just switched it off.
That's not what I wanted to do.
There we go.
So I've got it on my phone as well.
But yeah, so we're going to play the talk.
Will and I will be back after this for Conversation Street, which
is just where we go through your questions, your thoughts, your
comments, your ideas about the talk.
And so this is the amazing Dave Connolly, a good friend of Crowd Church, one of
my one of my closest mentors, dad's just an all round good old chap, isn't he?
He's a dude.
He's a dude, absolutely.
All right, here's Dave, we'll be back shortly.
Dave Connolly: Welcome, good to be with you.
Today's topic is the gift of the Holy Spirit and our reading is taken
from 1 Corinthians chapter 12 verses 4 to 11 and I'm going to read today
from the English Standard Version.
Now there are a variety of gifts but the same Spirit and there are varieties of
service but the same Lord and there are varieties of activities But it is the
same God who empowers them all, in every one, to each is given the manifestation
of the Spirit for the common good.
For to one it is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and
to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to
another faith by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles.
To another, prophecy.
To another, the ability to distinguish between spirits.
To another, various kinds of tongues.
To another, the interpretation of tongues.
All these are empowered by one and the same spirit, who apportions to
each one, individually, as he wills.
There is something so amazing about this scripture, and there is so much
that we can learn about the Holy Spirit.
He descends, he decides, and he gives.
It's the Holy Spirit, he knows all things, and he determines
who will receive which gift.
Each gift is given with the same objective, to edify the church.
Each church will have unique people but not unique needs and the Holy Spirit will
exercise his authority to manifest the gifts in the people of God for that church
and for that season, for those needs.
Each gift is a powerful display of God's authority and power on the
earth today and as believers we have access to all nine gifts and the
ability to stir up these gifts today.
In us, through the Holy Spirit.
Let's take a moment to list and comment on these nine gifts.
Let's begin with the Word of Knowledge.
This is a supernatural knowledge.
It's insight into things we would not or could not naturally know.
The Word of Wisdom.
Supernatural ability to correctly apply knowledge to a situation.
Prophecy, receiving a direct word from the Lord, usually to give to someone else.
Faith, a supernatural measure of faith to be able to trust
God for a specific situation.
Healing, the supernatural ability to pray for someone to receive healing.
Working of miracles, the supernatural ability to perform a divine act by
which God reveals himself to people.
An example of this would be parting the Red Sea.
Discerning of spirits, supernatural insights and
knowledge involving other spirits.
For example, angelic or demonic activity or influences.
For different kind of tongues.
Supernatural ability to speak in a natural foreign language or
to speak in a heavenly language.
Interpretation of tongues.
A supernatural ability to interpret the heavenly language.
When praying and seeking God for the gifts of the Spirit, we must ask ourselves,
why am I pursuing these gifts in my life?
We don't want to find ourselves being like Simon the Sorcerer.
Who we can read about in Acts chapter 8, verses 4 to 24.
Who after witnessing the power of the Holy Spirit in the life of Peter
and John, offered them money to have the same authority in the Spirit.
He was seeking the gifts out of a place of jealousy for personal gain and benefit.
Do we desire to manifest the gifts to make our name known?
Or do we really deeply love the Church?
We love it so much that we want to be part of the life and the
growth of the Church of Jesus.
Paul concludes in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 with this, With the importance of
working in unity to glorify God, the Church members are not competing or
attempting to outdo each other but instead are moving in oneness to reach
out to the lost with the message of salvation and to see God glorified.
Paul further clarifies that we should search our hearts and our motives when
we exercise the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians chapter 13 verse 1 and 3.
He says this, if I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but I've not love,
I am a noisy gong or a clanging symbol.
And if I have prophetic powers and understand all the mysteries
and all knowledge and if I have all of the faith so as to remove
mountains, but I have not love.
I am nothing if I give away all I have and if I deliver up my body
to be burned, but I have not love.
I gain nothing.
I found it interesting that there are 9 fruits of the Holy Spirit
and 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit.
The number 9 in the Bible symbolises divine completeness.
Where there are 9 fruits show God's importation of his divine nature into us.
The 9 gifts are a manifestation of his power working through our lives.
Allowing the Holy Spirit to import and manifest.
In our life, it's one of the greatest gifts from God.
Jesus said in John 16 verse 7, For I tell you the truth, it is
to your advantage that I go away.
For if I do not go away, the Helper, Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor,
Counselor, Strengthener will not come to you, but if I go, I will
send Him, the Holy Spirit, to you, to be in close fellowship with you.
As we draw to a close today, can I leave these thoughts with you?
The Holy Spirit is our lifelong companion.
We should strive to develop our ongoing relationship with Him.
We should want to see the evidence of His fruit.
in our lives as we grow and seek to make our heart a home.
It is such a blessing and privilege to partner with the Holy Spirit, also
to receive gifts that will encourage and strengthen and empower other
believers and to lead others to Jesus.
Our salvation is a gift from God and a life partnered with the Holy
Spirit, activated in love, is our greatest contribution to this world.
As we draw to a close today, my prayer is that we would learn to walk in all
the authority and power the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit has granted
to each of those he calls his own.
God bless you.
Matt Edmundson: So welcome back.
Great talk by Dave there, who's actually watching on Facebook.
He's joined us on Facebook.
So thanks for doing that.
You're absolute legend.
If you joined us during the talk, my name is Matt and beside me, this
handsome chap here is Will Sopwith.
And we're doing things slightly differently tonight.
If you're a regular to crowd, you'll notice that we have a two shots,
this one and this one and this one.
Oh, yes.
So normally we're side by side and it's a single shot, but tonight
we are livestreaming to Instagram, as well as Facebook and YouTube.
And the thing about Instagram is it needs vertical video, right?
Whereas YouTube and Facebook are horizontal.
So we have to do it this way.
So if you watch on Instagram, there's just me in the middle.
Otherwise, if we tried to do the shot where we're both together, then
it's like we have to get very close.
Will Sopwith: We're a little too huddled.
Matt Edmundson: A little too huddled.
So I'm going to try and remember to flick back and forth like this on the scenes.
But yeah, warm welcome to you.
If you join us on the Instagram on the old graham, or if you're on YouTube or
Facebook, it's great to have you here.
So let's get into Dave's talk.
What stood out to you, Mr.
Will?
Will Sopwith: Yeah, spiritual gifts.
It's a massive area that can feel a bit weird.
I think sometimes for some people it because it's what it's supposed
to because it's supernatural, like I suppose anything that's not natural,
supernatural feels a bit, it's not your everyday experience for most people.
But no, I thought that was a great unpacking.
I love Dave's point about the motivation.
And the fact that they're all from the same Lord.
Yeah.
And although there's such a diversity of spiritual gifts,
they all come from the same God.
And they're all a reflection of that same character of the God that we know.
And I think that's a really important point to remember when
you start getting into the detail.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it is.
And I love how in 1 Corinthians 12, in that portion of
Scripture, Paul lists the gifts.
And then he talks about the body.
And there's that famous phrase, I say it's famous, it was famous
to me, the hand cannot say to the foot, I have no need of you.
And so there's that expression of actually, Paul says that the
manifestations of the spirit are given different ways to different people
at different times, and they're all as he wills, the same Lord, it's all
God's doing, but we are all one body.
And it doesn't matter what part we play in that body, we're all needed.
And so I remember, you'd read stories about people like Smith Wigglesworth,
who obviously operated in things that we would call like the gifts
of healings, the gifts of faith.
The working of miracles.
I think it's easier to judge yourself against that.
Do you know what I mean?
And think, yeah.
I'm not as much of a Cris bow maybe a Smith with worth, but I love that
it's the same God, but I he cannot say this for, I have no need of you.
Will Sopwith: Yeah, no, absolutely.
And it's like picking any team, isn't it?
It's like God is building a team.
It's a great way to think about a church or any kind of community of faith, even
if it's an online community like crowd.
That if you're building a team, you want to build that, those different
skills and those different gifts and you don't want the same one, you don't want
everyone to be operating in prophecy the whole time, you might get nothing done
or there's a kind of, if everyone's got that same gift, there's a kind of, there
could be a competitive edge that maybe comes in if you're not building a team.
Really operating in God's grace.
But I love that idea that God looks at any community around the world any church
community and says, these, this is the balance of gifts that are needed for this
community to express the kingdom of God.
And to express my character to the population that they are and that may look
different in different settings, which yeah, I think it's really interesting.
Matt Edmundson: So thinking then about the gifts of the spirit we're if we're let
me just put everything in context because we're talking about becoming whole.
That's the series that we're in right.
We're talking about wholeness.
The first part of that we're talking about is about being spiritually
healthy right and so someone who is spiritually healthy is going to be.
A man of or a woman of prayer.
They're going to know, have revelation of scripture as we'd call it.
They're going to hear God.
They're going to know a few things we're going to get next week.
We're going to start this sort of little sidestep into the fruits of the spirit
because if you're spiritually healthy, the fruits of the spirit, love, joy,
peace, patience, all those sorts of things are going to be evident in your life.
You're doing one of the talks, right?
Indeed.
Yeah.
Did you know this?
Yeah, I did.
Will Sopwith: It's all under control, Matt.
It's all under control.
Matt Edmundson: I've just actually finished draft one of my talk on kindness.
But we've got that coming up.
Now, sandwiched in between then the fruits of the spirit and the other
things that we have talked about where spiritual health is concerned, is this
whole idea of the gifts of the spirit, the manifestation of the spirit, that
someone who is spiritually, healthy is going to be experiencing in some degree,
the gifts of the spirit in their life.
Would you concur with my conclusion?
And you have to.
Will Sopwith: I concur.
It's an interesting challenge, though, isn't it?
Because as I said, this is supernatural stuff.
And we might think, as Christians, that this belongs to the
kind of heroes of the Bible.
Yeah.
The apostles, healing people, working miracles.
Jesus, working miracles we don't necessarily think of
it as part and parcel of God.
Just being a healthy Christian, I think it's a really good challenge for us
that actually, yes, the same God, this is the God, this is the same spirit.
It's the Holy Spirit that we profess to, to have at work in our lives.
So therefore the gifts of the Spirit are going to feature.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's not something, certainly in the stream of church that I grew
up in, it's not, it wasn't really talked about in the same kind of way.
Yeah.
So I don't think I grew up thinking Yeah, this is just a natural part of
being a Christian, but it absolutely is.
Yeah.
Seeing the manifestation of God in that kind of unusual way,
supernatural way actually should be part of of being a Christian
and that's an exciting adventure.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it really is.
And the gifts of the spirit in effect that, that it's the working
of God or the outworking, isn't it?
The manifestation, the outworking of God through his people.
Yeah.
Yeah, on earth through various different ways, the nine gifts that were listed.
So Matt wrote in the comments, what spiritual gifts has God given
you, Matt and Will, how would you, I'm going to see if I can put
this, how would you answer that?
Will Sopwith: So I asked Matt before we came on.
It wasn't what spiritual gift you had so much as what spiritual gift you'd want.
And he said healing.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
Will Sopwith: I think, yeah, God's definitely given me a gift of
prophecy and of healing, I'd say.
Yeah.
And that's been something that I've sought God for.
It's not something, yeah, I guess it's not something I feel I've
naturally had so much as something I've particularly asked God for.
All grown in God.
And yeah, but I'd say those two.
So what about you?
Matt Edmundson: Very good question.
I would say in some respects, I've touched all of them.
And there are definite stories or experiences of God that I would
put down through to some of them.
I think sometimes I remember when we were at, when I was at Bible
school and we were, we spent weeks studying the gifts of the spirit.
Like, how do you define the difference between this and this?
And I think sometimes it's less about the definition and more
just about getting on with it.
Will Sopwith: Absolutely.
I'm totally with you there.
That would've driven me, absolutely.
Me,
Matt Edmundson: spending weeks of that.
But I think, here's the interesting thing, isn't there?
The every, in some respects.
When you say, what's your favorite gift or what gift would you admire
the most and I go obviously the power gifts, Jeremy Clarkson, more power.
Just because that's how my brain works, but that's not how every brain works.
Praise the Lord.
But I definitely, I'm a big fan of those kinds of things.
So here's another question for you.
Maybe Dave can answer this actually, because Dave's in the comments as well.
And I see Dave, you've put a comment there, we'll come to that.
But is things like praying for healing, when you pray for someone
at church to be healed, or it doesn't have to be a church, obviously.
But when you pray for somebody to be healed and they get healed, is that
the gift of healings or is that just a general being obedient to the word of God?
Will Sopwith: You've been watching Matt and Will.
Yeah, no, I think that there is, when you dig into it, as you did in Bible
College, there are there are kind of offices, and there are just offices.
natural being part of a Christian.
I think what we're talking about probably today is more that
just flow of God's power in our kind of everyday Christian life.
And so those gifts of the spirit, I believe, are absolutely available to
anybody, anyone that's a Christian.
I think sometimes it may be a particular time in your life, maybe
a particular person that's appointed to be a prophet or a teacher.
Discerner of Spirits or something and that becomes then an office
in a sense of someone's sort of identity in God a little bit more.
But no, I agree that it's a part of following, yeah, obeying God's
Word and therefore being gifted.
Yeah.
As His Word says, and I think people in talking about it in depth, you can get a
little bit hung up on whether you've got this gift or whether you've got that gift.
And I think you do begin to lose something there that just being
open really to however God wants to use us in any situation.
And many times he'll use us in a way that We don't recognize as
maybe being part of who we are.
It may not be something that happens a lot.
There may be times when you pray for someone and they get healed
and other times they don't.
It may be a one off.
I don't think it matters too much, but it's the faith that God can bring
something that's not of ourselves, that actually Breaks in empowering
in some way, not of our own ability.
And that's an important faith journey for each of us to see
how God uses us in that way.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
No, it's very good.
It's very good.
It was a slightly trick question.
But because I think like you say, we can get sometimes just caught up
in the definitions of these things.
And maybe it is, maybe, interestingly, Dave wrote his answer here.
Dave said it's both, so he's put here, we can all stand on God's word
as and when, but there are people who carry a greater measure of the gift
and are regularly involved in praying for the sick and seeing them healed.
That's a really interesting point.
And you talked about that, didn't you, in terms of there are officers.
So I think it is the responsibility.
of Christians to pray for the sick based on what we
Will Sopwith: see in scripture.
Absolutely.
And I think we can sometimes hide behind it say, Oh I've not
been given that particular gift.
So I'm not going to do such and such.
And that's missing the point of growing in God.
Yeah, just that relationship of God.
And Paul says in the New Testament, he says, Desire The Gifts, and then
he talks to Timothy about fanning to flame the gifts given you.
It's both, there's those that are particularly given and it might be
someone particularly praying for you and saying, yeah, I believe God's giving
you this particular gift and I've prayed that for individuals and people have
prayed that for me, and sometimes it's just getting on with it and allowing
God to use us in lots of different situations and lots of different ways.
I like you said you touched on all of the gifts at some point
in your life and I think that's that is a healthy Christian life.
Yeah, absolutely.
Matt Edmundson: And I remember Dave, and help me if I'm remembering this story
incorrectly, but I remember when Dave came back from I'm going to say Argentina but
I think it was in South America somewhere and he had seen someone who I would say
was operating in the gifts of the church.
miracle, the working miracles and healings as I was listening to them with stories
of arms growing out, legs growing out.
And just, crazy miracles, people being raised from the
dead, and so on and so forth.
And what fascinated me, I remember the talk, because, and again, Dave correct
me if I'm wrong here, but the way I remember it is, the chat that was talking
about raising people from the dead.
He was like, everybody wants to be able to do that because
that sounds really cool, right?
But his comment was, I have paid a high cost.
Do you see what I mean?
And there was a high cost in his life.
And I think when you look at the apostles, the working in miracles,
gifts of healings, all those sites they ultimately paid a high cost for the
manifestation of the spirit in which wherever God leads me, that's fine.
But I think there is a grace upon us to work and function in those
gifts, if that's our office.
Does that make sense?
And I think for the guy that was raising the dead, on a fairly regular basis, there
was a grace upon him to be able to deal with the cost of walking in that calling.
Does that make sense?
Will Sopwith: Yeah.
Oh, we're going deep this evening.
We're going very
Matt Edmundson: deep.
Very deep.
I've got a thumbs up from Dave.
Will Sopwith: And I think that's part of the that point that I was making
before about God kind of selecting his team and choosing the gifts.
And Dave mentioned this about appointing different gifts for different individuals.
And I imagine in that setting, there was a real that's a massively powerful
thing, people being raised from the dead, that's massively going to get attention
of all sorts of communities who hear that.
And I believe that for that community in that setting, that was a really
important part of their living in kingdom and seeing others come to know Jesus.
Now in other settings, that might not be the thing that does it, and it
might be a discernment, and I can't remember all the nine, this is terrible.
It might be healing.
It might be prophecy.
It might be faith.
Other less kind of obvious things.
But where someone has an office for it, then it's a particular
need that God appoints someone to say, no, this is your function.
This is your identity in this church community.
But actually in the more kind of run of the mill, it could be the whole range.
But I think that point of listening to God and hearing it and desiring
more of God in our lives is a really important, opening up then for
those gifts and that's supernatural.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.
And I think it's such a powerful point, isn't it?
Absolutely.
We, the claim that we make is that we serve a supernatural God that has involved
himself in a supernatural way in humanity and as Christians, we believe he is going
to continue to do that through his people.
Therefore, as his people, we should expect and not be surprised if God
outworks the supernatural through us.
Now one of the things it says here in the scripture that Dave read, all of these
gifts all come from the same spirit who gives to each one individually as he wills
and I think this is an important point when it comes to these kind of things
because when it comes to stepping out in the gifts of the spirit, I think it's as
he wills, not as I will, not as we will.
Will Sopwith: Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I think the point made that the story Dave, referred to the motivation
of the gift is really important.
And it's this guy in Acts that if you've been following the series, you'll remember
the story of where he sees the power from the laying on of hands of the disciples.
And he offers the money and he says, Oh, this would be great.
This would be great for my little brand going on.
I'd like this as well.
I can make a lot of money out of this.
And the subject now you've got this all wrong and I think our motivation,
it probably isn't as obvious as that but where our motivation is maybe
a little bit more self focused than Christ focused, then yeah, that whole.
gifting area.
It gets messy.
I think you do see people that actually are definitely anointed by God.
And I feel very uncomfortable with the way they're using that gifting
because it just feels all about them and all about their platform.
But who are any of us to judge, but I think the motivation is absolutely key.
That if you're interested in pressing more into God and into that kind of power
side of God, then yeah, make sure you've got a good heart in it and make sure
you're doing it for the right reasons.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah I've just put on the screen.
Oh, it's just disappeared as I flipped from one side to the other.
There is purpose in the gifts.
God gives gifts for the strengthening, building up of God's people.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's a really key point.
It's such an impact.
I'm just gonna put my glasses on.
It says 1 Corinthians twelve verse seven, to each is given the manifestation
of the spirit for the common good.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think That's the critical thing.
It's what Dave says there, that there is a purpose behind the
gifts of the spirit and it's not to build the Matt Edmundson brand.
No.
It's not even to build the Crowd Church brand, but it is to build
his kingdom and it is for his glory.
It is for the common good and I think I've seen a lot of people
who are gifted at certain things.
Like you say, they It starts to be more about their good rather than
the common good, if that makes sense.
And I get, like you, I get very uncomfortable in those kinds of
situations when I see people doing that.
Because it becomes more about the gifts rather than the giver of the gift.
Yeah,
Will Sopwith: absolutely.
And it's not a good witness for the God, for the church at all,
because it becomes grandstanding.
And you start talking about the humility of God and servant
heartedness and all the rest.
And yeah, it just doesn't tally.
And it says very clearly in the Bible, in the New Testament says, test the
spirits, don't just take any gift and go, Oh, this must be from God.
It's no, test it very carefully.
And I love Dave's point again, if they come from the same Lord,
that we can look at the kind of character behind the gift or, yeah.
I can't think of an example off the top of my head, but if it doesn't match up
with the character of God as we understand it from the rest of scripture, then I
think that's a really good test of I'm not sure where this is coming from.
Yeah.
And I think particularly with something like prophecy where something is
spoken and says, thus saith the Lord and there's a kind of an authority on
something someone says because they say, I'm gifted as a prophet, and I think
we've seen this actually quite recently in the last few years about kind of
pronouncements being made that actually have turned out to be completely false.
Yeah.
And yeah, just adding Oh, God says this and I'm a prophet to something.
It's on us all to test that anyway.
Yeah.
To test it against scripture.
Yeah.
Test about our understanding of God.
Yeah.
And with an open mind and say, God teach me where I'm wrong and
challenge me where this is real.
Yeah.
But it's important as well to test that motivation.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.
Very true.
And I think if you're listening to this and you're new to Christianity, you've
not really, moved in the gifts of the Spirit as you as we're talking about them.
It can almost come across as, what we're talking about is a bit of a scary thing,
something to be afraid of, but it isn't.
Because it's God in you, you can discern what is going on, and you can trust God.
And Sadaf's put here in the comments, through Instagram, and
I'm going to look at that, it works.
I just love it when it works.
I'm so excited that this is working right now.
Sorry if you've already covered this, but my question is,
can you have different spiritual gifts at different phases of life?
Will Sopwith: So I think, yeah, absolutely.
But I'd be interested to know what you think.
And again, it's because thinking about the giver and the reason the gifts are given,
there are particular seasons, particular situations, particular groups of people
where a gifting is, oh, have we gone?
Yeah,
Matt Edmundson: you've gone.
Why
Will Sopwith: have you gone?
I've no idea.
I touched nothing.
I'm just going to do this.
Carry on.
I'm not on that screen either.
So I don't know where it's the camera.
Anyway yeah.
So if you could imagine being in a particular community of faith, particular
fellowship at one point where, yeah, there's a need for a particular gift and I
think God could give you that for a time.
There may be another time when actually it's There we go, sorry,
just fiddling with the tech here, where maybe that's not needed.
And it may be, for me, certainly, I know there's been times in my
life and I've moved in a particular gift much more than others.
It doesn't necessarily have to happen that way.
And I think it probably depends a little bit on the way we're using it
and fanning the flame and practicing it.
But I think, yeah, there were times when I felt gifted by God in something
and other times when I just really haven't, and I've just not felt at
peace to, to operate in that gift.
And sometimes that's because there's other people that are doing that.
And God needs me to be doing something else.
Yeah, so yeah, I absolutely think so.
But what do you think, Matt?
Yeah.
Oh, hang
Matt Edmundson: on.
Sorry.
It's all going a bit Pete wrong with these cameras, isn't it?
Do me a favor, Will, just turn that radiator off while I answer your question.
I think the cameras are overheating.
Just open the door slightly, let some air in.
It is like sauna in this room right now.
So yes, to answer Sadaf's question, can you have different spiritual
gifts at different phases of life?
I think you can have different spiritual gifts at different times of the day.
I genuinely do and I think you can have different gifts depending
on who's in front of you as well.
Yeah.
And for example, in a church service, you do this a lot, you pray for
people on a Sunday morning, they come forward, we do prayer ministry, you're
going to cycle through different gifts of the spirit, depending
on who you're praying for, right?
Yeah.
That said, I think that there are gifts, there are talents, they
may be the gifts of the spirit.
Paul goes on to talk about things like, administrations and helps
and all those kind of things.
I think there are things which, like you say, are peculiar in effect to our lives.
Because that's, a unique calling that God's put on us.
And so I would say, for example, the discerning of spirits,
do I have that in my life?
I would say yes.
In certain areas where God has gifted me.
Yeah,
Will Sopwith: right.
Matt Edmundson: So Maybe an understanding, say money or business.
It might be I see and experience God in a different way because I think
there's a call on my life in that area.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
And yes, I think Sadaf, you can definitely have different spiritual
gifts at different phases of life.
And I think God will lead you in those.
They may come around because as Paul said, desire spiritual gifts.
We seek them out.
Or it may be that's just a phase that God's borders into.
And I don't think it's one size fits all at one point in your life.
I just think God's
Way bigger than that.
Yeah.
Will Sopwith: And I think actually that's part of It's a way of
reminding us that he is the giver.
It's not us.
It's not about us.
Yeah, I think it keeps us humble, keeps us listening, keeps us walking with him.
It's going well.
Yeah.
What do you want me to be operating in at this time, rather than just Oh, great.
I'm a prophet, that's what I do.
Yeah.
And that's all I do.
Yeah.
I turn up and every single Sunday morning in a church, I will stand
up and grab the microphone and I will speak some deep utterance.
Yeah, it's a joke, but it happens as well.
Yeah.
You can get so caught up with the, this is who I am.
Yeah.
But actually God wants us to keep walking with them and keep humble and say no, this
is a gift I've given you, this is not you, this is me and you gotta keep in step.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, and I think actually that the other thing that
you can do here is, it's not for me to stand up and say I'm a prophet.
But it's for the Spirit of God to bring that gift through me and bear the fruit
of that which bears testament to that.
Do you see what I mean?
Now I'm saying that with a slight caveat, because I'm aware that Paul,
every time he introduces himself, I am an apostle is very clear on his calling.
I'm an apostle and I'm a slave.
And he was okay.
So I don't think it's bad to identify your calling.
But if you stand up and say a prophet because it gives you some
sense of security or identity.
Yeah,
Will Sopwith: again, it's all about your motivation.
It's like, why are you saying that?
Why do you have to preface whatever you say by that?
Is it because you're trying to Build that sense of your own authority or you want
people to, I don't know, respond to you differently because, oh, you're a prophet.
You just, yeah, look at your motivation as to why you would say that.
I think it's
interesting.
Matt Edmundson: Good question, Sadaf.
Very good question.
So here's a, here's I guess if I'm listening, I'm just trying to
think about different people who are listening to the live stream.
So we've gone a little, fairly deep, which is fine if you're a Christian,
and you've been around a little while.
Let's say you're not a Christian, listening to this,
you're searching things.
Why should someone who's not a Christian care about a very strange sounding topic
called the gifts of the Holy Spirit?
Will Sopwith: It's a really good question, Matt.
Why would they?
And I think Dave made this point and he made it for each
of the gifts he talked about.
They are supernatural.
They are something that you do not have ability to do.
Because if the church is just a load of people following some good teaching on
how to live and trying to love each other.
Yeah, but you worship a God who's all powerful.
You're short selling the church and the Holy Spirit there.
And I think we can all understand we're in places people do
it all the time, don't they?
They have no faith at all that they may turn to prayer in a place of absolute
desperation and go, God, if you're there, please do this, because I can't.
We all have those moments daily, weekly, when we're at the end of our ability.
And they are gifts.
They are given to us by God in his grace and mercy for those very
situations where we can do nothing.
And they're given for people's blessing and they're given for God's glory.
So healing is a great example.
It's a gift.
It's a gift to us.
It's a gift to our families.
It's a gift to our communities, our friends, things we cannot do.
But you could apply that to any of the other gifts as well.
So discernment, wisdom, prophecy, and we're not talking prophecy as this
is going to happen next week, so much as unpacking a picture or a scripture
that really resonates, really gets It really speaks to someone's heart in
a very deep way and unlocks something they hadn't seen before that brings
freedom, that brings healing, that so all these things are gifts and,
generally gifts are there to bless.
So they're here to bless the church, but also to bless the world.
All that the church touches and every place that a Christian is, which is why
they should be part of our everyday life.
Yeah, they can sound a bit weird, but in the end, they're gifts to us as
God's people, because he loves us.
And because there's stuff that we just cannot do.
Yeah, no, very good.
Matt Edmundson: Very good.
And I think I love that.
I love that.
It's stuff that we cannot do.
We need good.
Fundamentally.
That's what we say.
Yeah.
Like you say, I love that because if all it is we just go to church
and listen to a self help sermon.
Yeah.
Will Sopwith: Yeah.
That's it.
It can become self help really quickly without God's power involved.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, and that's just not good at all.
That's not good at all.
So what would your advice be, say, someone who is fairly new in their Christian
faith, or maybe has been a Christian for a while, but has never really
operated in the gifts of the Spirit?
Where would you start?
Will Sopwith: Start with asking God.
Great to read Acts, which is really where those gifts of the Holy Spirit are best.
Probably best described, but then also in the New Testament as Paul unpacks
it in the letters to the new churches.
So read the Bible for sure.
But be praying, be asking God and saying, okay, God, give me an understanding
of what these gifts are about.
And start trying to listen and saying is there anything you want me to be?
Yeah, to be moving in.
I don't think there's any particular one gift to start with, so much as
just it's about our posture, isn't it?
It's about listening to God.
That's a very good
Matt Edmundson: point.
It's about our posture.
I think you're right.
There's not a, there's not like a scorecard.
No, level one is prophecy, level 10 is working of miracles.
It's not like that at all.
And I think my experience here is For you as a Christian, you're going to have
some kind of inkling which resonates with you the way that God has made you to
use the modern word, the kids use vibe.
What's the vibe?
And I'm sure the kids do use that.
Do they not?
Okay, moved on.
But I think it's what resonates with you.
Where is it?
Where is God leading you?
And I think Will said, stop praying, start seeking God about it.
And when the opportunities arrive.
Step out in faith and take them and when you don't step out in faith,
because you're a little bit nervous, you're a little bit anxious, don't
waste that, but learn from that.
Journal about it, think about it, pray about it, what was involved in that
and God will give you opportunities to step out in these gifts and my
experience with the gifts of the Spirit.
My experience with things of God is whilst the gifts are not ranked in any way.
I think as we step out deeper and deeper into those gifts.
God seems to trust us more and more as we walk in them.
So I don't think God's expecting you to go to a funeral home and lay
hands on a coffin and raise the dead straight away if you've never walked in.
I'm not saying that can't happen.
I'm just I think that God leads us and our faith grows in these areas.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Will Sopwith: I think that's right.
Another point that Dave just made on the chat is that there's counterfeit and
actually, yeah, I think generally, people are fascinated with the supernatural.
Just have a look at programming schedules or anything to know that there is a
fascination with the supernatural.
I think again because it's outside of our experience and our ability.
But he's absolutely right that there are a counterfeit to the gifts
that if you believe in a spiritual realm, then it's a short step to
know that actually there's stuff that's not from the character of God.
But that might just lead people astray or lead them down a bit of a rabbit hole.
Yeah.
And I'm just remembering it in Liverpool years ago, something that we stepped
out to do as a small group, there was a Y1 boat that was moored in Liverpool
and it's the kind of boat that sails around the world and tries to share
Christ in many different places.
And it was in Liverpool.
And we decided that around Easter time we would go and
we would, what did we call it?
It was like life messages or something.
I can't remember what it was, but it was akin to, using the sort of language
that is used in counterfeit of kind of fortune telling, I guess that kind of
fascination, but it was like, we're very upfront and say, look, we believe that
God has stuff to say into your life.
And I think that's a really, again, as a young Christian, why you'd be interested
because God wants to show his love.
He wants to show his love to you.
In giving you these gifts beyond your ability, but he wants to show
his love through you to others.
So we got together and we prayed and the idea was that passers by
on, and Liverpool docks is a busy area would come and we'd say, do you
want to hear from God in your life?
And we don't know you at all.
We're going to sit and we're going to just pray.
I'm just going to listen to God.
And just say whatever God gives us.
It might be some words, it might be a picture.
Absolutely terrifying.
You do that in church, but because people are sort of part of it, but literally
have these complete strangers, passersby, no real kind of background in faith.
And they just sit there and he's gonna, okay, I'm just gonna sit
for quiet and just listen to God and see, to hear what he says.
Yeah.
And you're like, God, you gotta say something because I'm
gonna feel just such a fool.
There's these like people sat across from me going, yeah, what's all this about?
And it was incredible, some of the things that God spoke
very specific into their lives.
And it just unlock something in them.
Every time we said this, it's not about us.
It's not about us being flash and going, Oh, look, aren't we amazing?
Isn't church exciting?
This is just God wanting to show you that he knows you and he
loves you and he cares about you.
And each of the words was about something we could have never have known about them.
And it might have come through a picture or a word or just a
sort of description of something.
But yeah, it was amazing.
And I think people left going, Oh, yeah God, I don't even
really have a concept of God.
But he told this stranger that about me.
Yeah.
And it's because he loves me.
And one of my favourite stories was it was this, it wasn't that time, it was another
time, but a lady who was on crutches, and older lady not great mobility, and the
word for her was dancer, and I think God's saying that you should be dancing.
And it's yeah.
Look at this lady, she can barely walk, let alone dance.
And this woman just dissolves in tears.
And she then told her story about as a girl, that's all she wanted to do.
She wants to be a dancer and she completely given up on that hope
because of various things that happened in life that have been blocks.
And that just showed her something of God's father heart for her.
I don't think there was necessarily a healing that she was going to become a
dancer, but it was something that person praying for her could not have known.
Yeah.
Not known and didn't, she was a complete stranger to her and yet it
really touched that woman's heart.
Yeah.
And I've no idea what her story was.
Maybe she's watching.
That's God's heart in the end.
He wants to express his love to his people, those who know
him and those that don't.
And I think really that that's one of the ways we can test out
these kind of spiritual gifts is is this communicating God's love?
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, super powerful ways.
Why is it for the common good?
And by good, it's God's goodness.
Yeah, it's the goodness of God manifest here in someone's life.
And we could trade stories all day long.
I remember a few years ago, I was due to speak at a church,
not our church, different church.
And I was the night before, I just couldn't, I was a
bit restless in my sleep.
And I remember waking up, I've got it journaled.
I can't remember the exact time off the top of my head, but it's four
or five o'clock in the morning.
And I remember seeing the clock by the side of the bed.
It wasn't my bed.
So there was an alarm clock.
There's not normally an alarm clock by the side of my bed, but
there's this alarm clock there.
And I remember the time.
And when you wake up in the middle of the night, and you remember the dream,
because for whatever reason, I remember this dream where I dreamt, I had this
real clear dream of a woman In a bath, not in a pervy way, just to point that out I
didn't see anything I shouldn't see, but she was leaning over the side of the bath.
crying our eyes out, just pouring a heart out to God.
Now, I couldn't see a face.
I just saw it almost from a bird's eye.
And I saw the tears as they were coming down the side of the bath turned to gold.
It was a pretty memorable dream.
Pretty vivid.
And I remember going to the church next day and doing the talk and it was okay.
I think I don't know.
I didn't they, they've never invited me back.
But I remember thinking I need to share that story and I said, I'm,
I stood up and I shared this story and I said, I don't know why I'd
need to share this dream with you.
This was a dream that I had and this was the time that I woke up
and if that resonates with anyone, then I would love to pray for you.
A woman came up to me and said, it was me in the bath.
I was in the bath at four o'clock this morning, leaning over the side of it.
Like you said, crying and pouring out my heart and I was just tears
coming down my face and I just I don't get those dreams every day.
I just want to be super clear, right?
But this was the gifts of the Holy Spirit in manifestation for her good.
Yeah, now don't get me wrong.
It properly insanely blessed me.
Yeah, because why would it not?
But I remember, and we prayed together and we laugh together and
we just rejoice together because it was such a supernatural occurrence.
Yeah.
For God to do that to break into her life.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
All for the common good.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
I think we should probably end our Conversation Street because I think
we're just going to keep going and I've just noticed the time.
Will Sopwith: I've
Matt Edmundson: just noticed the time.
Listen, I'm going to put on the screen our web address, www.
crowd.
church, or on social media, at Crowd Church.
You can reach us either way.
We would love to hear from you.
Got any stories, anything you want to share, or if you've got any
prayer requests, anything you'd like us to pray about, do let us know.
Reach out to us.
We get lots of prayer requests every week.
And it's so great to hear from people all over the world, just being able to stand
with you guys in prayer is fantastic.
And if you are new to the Christian faith, on the website, you will find
something called the Alpha Course.
Now we started an Alpha Course Three weeks ago, we are now on
week four in the Alpha course.
And so it's not too late to come join us.
In fact, we had an email today from somebody who wants to
come join the Alpha course.
It's not too late.
So if that's you, if you want to know more about the Christian
faith, why not come check it out?
Just drop us if you go to the website, www.
crowd.
church, just follow the link and give us your name and email
address and I will email you all the details for the alpha course.
It'll be great to see you in there.
But Will, in closing, anything else from you, bud?
Will Sopwith: Yeah, just if there's, if this has prompted a load of questions
about spiritual gifts yeah keep listening.
We're talking much more about the Holy Spirit in coming weeks and the
fruits of the Spirit but also, yeah get in touch and very happy to continue
that dialogue offline as it were.
Yeah, please do, please do get in touch and and keep listening.
Matt Edmundson: Fantastic.
Now next week we have the Fantabulous Dan Orange and Ruth Orange, I believe.
Cause as I said at the start, it's my birthday next week
and I, it's not, I'm not here.
You're course birthday course, but I'm on this, I'm on a three
day intensive course, so just literally move the dates last minute.
You've got Dan and Ruth.
I will try and join in the comments.
But you're gonna be back in a few weeks doing your talk.
Indeed.
Yeah.
Will Sopwith: Oh
Matt Edmundson: goodness.
Yeah.
I can't keep him away.
Just can't keep him away.
I'll be back in a few weeks as well.
But listen, it's been great chatting with you guys tonight.
Love these conversations.
Love it.
Because I just come away and going, Oh, yeah, some of these
things that I've forgotten about.
Yeah.
God do that in my life, man.
Yeah.
Will Sopwith: Amen.
Do you know what I mean?
Absolutely.
Should we pray?
Do you for us?
Yeah, let's pray.
Yeah, Lord God, I thank you for the gifts that you give us.
I thank you that you know full well the limit of our abilities, Lord God, and
that's no limitation for being in your kingdom and seeing your kingdom come.
And Lord, I thank you for those gifts that are for the common good.
I thank you from the one spirit.
We can trust you because we know your character, Lord.
We know you from your word.
And we know that operating in those gifts is a safe space.
So Lord, give us a hunger to do that, Lord.
And I just pray for all those that are left wondering, having listened to
this, Lord God, would you Yeah, just start that conversation with them.
Oh, God, and thank you for the gifts.
Thank you for the gifts you've given.
Thank you.
They are ready for our building up and for the common good as we've heard.
So go with us this week as we live supernaturally.
In Jesus name.
Matt Edmundson: Amen.
Amen.
Indeed.
So thanks, everybody.
Thanks for being in the comments.
Peter, good to see you.
Thanks Dave for the talk.
Great spark of a great conversation.
I enjoyed that.
And if you've been on the Instagram live streaming, you've been dropping in and
out, it's been great to see you in there.
We will be doing this more and more, I think over the coming weeks and
months, because why would we not?
Why would we not indeed?
It seems to work.
So very happy with that.
So thank you for bearing with us on this test and trial.
But if you're watching us on Instagram, big shout out to you.
You're a legend.
So that's it for me.
That's it from Will.
Thank you.
I'm just looking for the button on here.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world.
We'll see you next time.
Bye for now.
Thank you so much for joining us here on Crowd Church.
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It has been awesome to connect with you and you are awesome.
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God bless you.
Bye for now.