0:00:00 - Nikki Nash

If you choose to get help, you have to truly understand the type of help you need and the type of help you're getting, because what often happens is, when you're newer in business or you're not making bank, what you can afford is typically someone that is tactical and they're like a technician and they can get stuff done, but that doesn't mean that they're actually a strategist. So I wouldn't say, hey, go, you're in charge of my Instagram or you're in charge of my TikTok or you're in charge of my website, and hope that they're going to be the one that actually brings you clients.

0:00:36 - Natalie Jennings

This is the Photo Business Help podcast, a resource for photographers of all levels, from brand new to burnt out, who believe that business growth starts with personal growth. I'm your host, natalie Jennings. I created Jennings Photo back in 2010 and have been happily full time since, but not without some mistakes along the way. Those lessons, plus what's really helped me thrive financially and personally, are what I want to share with you so you can grow with your photo business, too. You'll also hear stories from other photographers and industry folks, as well as my favorite ways to be more mindful and happier on this journey.

Today, my conversation is going to help you figure out what to do if you are wondering how to market your business. Marketing is a big thing, and one of the things that Nikki and I talk about today is the difference between just knowing a platform, knowing what you're doing as far as, for example, really understanding Instagram versus having a strategy, and how those two things complement each other and how you need both of those things To attract more clients. She also just gives some awesome tips for attracting more business and just making sure that you are on the right foot with all of your marketing efforts. So if that's something that you feel is something you struggle with. This is a great episode for you, but first a few words from folks that support this show. This is something that you talk about a lot, then, or is this something like so you used to do this as like a job for big companies and then now are you doing more podcasting stuff, or what's going on?

0:02:26 - Nikki Nash

Yeah, when you say this, what do you mean? Like, because I want to make sure I'm answering your actual question.

0:02:32 - Natalie Jennings

That's true, it wasn't a very clear one. Just marketing in general, like helping companies with marketing and helping people understand marketing. Thank you for that catch.

0:02:40 - Nikki Nash

Yeah, no worries, I ended up in marketing pretty much straight out of college. It was an accident sort of, but I worked in magazines. So I worked at Instile magazine and Tram and leisure magazine, things like that, and then, I would say, after working at magazines and then ad agencies, and then I ended up at Fortin 100 companies, I decided I wanted to do my own thing and I quit without a plan and I spent two weeks in Mexico straight out of leaving my job at Intel and I, like, loved the people I work with. My job was cool. I was making six figures. I was like in my late twenties and I was just feeling that I didn't want to spend my whole life kind of in a cubicle. And this was before. Like I worked from home on Fridays, but it wasn't a big work from home type of culture and so, long story short, I left corporate. First week in Mexico was amazing because I had zero responsibility. Second week in Mexico I freaked the F out because I'm like, how am I going to make money?

And I ended up taking a job as head of marketing for a tech startup and I did that and my side hustle, honestly, just because I liked it was teaching entrepreneurs marketing, and so I would teach marketing to all different types of businesses. I did it with a company called General Assembly. I would kind of make up curriculum and courses based off of what I saw my students meeting and then I would convince them to pay me to teach it. Essentially, I'd be like, hey, here's a course idea that I think people would like. They're like, let's give it a try, and I'd write the curriculum. I teach it. I taught everything from like 10 week long courses to 90 minute workshops and everything kind of in between. And then I realized that there is a big need for entrepreneurs to learn how to acquire clients and customers and then retain this client and customers and do it in a way that makes sense for the stage and size of their business, because mimicking what large companies did and what a lot of the companies I used to work for did does not work.

And I learned a lot of that real time when I was head of marketing at a tech startup and there were kind of 10 people total and we were doing it, doing all of these things, and we were selling a physical product, and so I learned a lot on that job and brought a lot of my expertise to that job, so teaching was a lot of fun and then I turned that into a business and so it's been about eight years of me doing it full time.

But I essentially work with primarily my client base tends to be primarily women, probably because my I have a book that's pink and I clearly wear a lot of pink, so I think I just attract a certain crowd. But I typically help people come up with a marketing strategy and action plan that's actually gonna work for them to bring in more revenue. And Then, because I've been working with a ton of businesses in the past eight years it's usually in the coaching or service-based business space and my businesses I consult and coach are doing anywhere from like 50 million in annual revenue to just getting started and because I've seen what works and doesn't work at a lot of different sizes of business. I then also ultimately provide some guidance beyond just marketing, but that's usually what people come to me for.

0:06:05 - Natalie Jennings

Cool, but I have so many questions. But I'm gonna back it up and just start with something basic, since this audience is predominantly lifestyle photographers at either a relatively beginner stage or have, like myself, I've been full-time for 14 years and have you know Like you hit these little plateaus as you grow and that kind of stuff. And I think, with the service-based business Versus a product-based business, there's, if you're not doing anything evergreen, and particularly with photography, it's like there's you're showing up, so there's like not a lot of room to scale unless you want to have a studio. So I'm curious for a single, like you know I don't know how we would define success, but like an established single person business like this, what have you seen is as, like the the biggest change in Marketing I guess needs in the last since you started and now.

0:06:57 - Nikki Nash

Yeah, you know it's funny is that marketing? And I have this belief, fundamentally, that marketing is just building relationships with people who might want to buy what you're selling, and Well put. So, when people are like, oh, you're in marketing, I'm like, yeah, I'm basically good to build relationships with people and I think, innately, one of my skills is listening to people and understanding what they want and making connections. And so, from a marketing perspective, I think the biggest changes have been in the tools available to people that are growing their business not so much the fundamentals of marketing, but I think so often because there's always something new. And so people will be like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna help you grow your business on Instagram, or I'm gonna help you grow your business with YouTube, or I'm gonna help you grow your business in a certain way, shape or form. At the end of the day, what the people really should be teaching is hey, you want to be building relationships with prospective clients and customers, and this tool of Instagram or this tool of YouTube or this tool of insert any Past or new up-and-coming you know, platform like pick, talk or whatever has certain nuances of how to best build relationships, but the fundamentals of relationship building are the same and the fundamentals of what a business wants are the same, like clients and customers Want a product or service that will help them either realize a dream or solve a problem, and Businesses want to sell their product or service to people to help them solve a problem or realize a dream, and I don't think that's changing.

I think it's just how you best communicate and build relationships shifts a little bit depending on the platform and the tool and how humans behave. Right, because right now, attention spans are low, so low, like so Freakin low. It's fascinating. I just watch people and I'm like wow, even myself I'm probably for being a millennial and I'm an older millennial, but I'm a millennial. I am still probably someone who doesn't spend as much time on their phone as, like, the average millennial, but when I do, sometimes I'm like how did I end up on Instagram Looking at all this stuff, like I don't even remember the thought that I had. That somehow got me here and I'm just like, oh my gosh, I fell into the hole again.

0:09:18 - Natalie Jennings

That is one of the like. I do a lot of meditation and blah, blah, blah. Like I practice Presence, I practice not being on my phone and the scariest Frickin thing that's happened in the last, I'd say maybe two or three years for me, and I'm also like right on the cusp of like millennial Gen Z, but like I'll just lose time and I'm really not on that often, but I'll be like I don't remember the thought, like the reason I pick, like I would probably picked up my phone to check my bank balance and now I'm looking at like cockatiels, you know, in the jungle, because I like my whole feed is like animal stuff and I'm like how, what just happened?

0:09:55 - Nikki Nash

Yeah, it's amazing and really being able to Limit those distractions. It's probably gonna be one of the biggest strategies or tools that marketers or people growing a business can have. It's like how do you have someone actually pay attention to you and not kind of get away before they learn what it is that you're out to help them with right?

0:10:18 - Natalie Jennings

Exactly exactly, and I think what's really interesting about the short attention span thing is there's also spaces like Substack and Podcast and stuff where people's attention span is like when they are hooked in, they're in and they will spend hours in your space. So it's like this bizarre like either they're not going to pay attention or they're in, you know.

0:10:39 - Nikki Nash

Yeah, I mean, it's just like watching a movie. If I'm watching a movie and someone tries to talk to me while I'm watching said movie, I am so annoyed Like I went to the movies which I don't do often with a new friend and one of her friends and her friend tried to talk throughout the whole movie. I'm like I am not the person that you talk to during a movie. I am dialed in, just like when I'm listening to a podcast. I'm like please don't interrupt me.

I'm like mentally taking notes, or literally taking notes, like I'm tuned in and so when people are as much as we joke and say how low attention spans are, I'm still sitting through long ass Lord of the Ring movies or Marvel movies or other things. Like they can get me sitting there watching a long period of time. Or I have friends that will and I've done this before too. I shouldn't just throw friends under the bus. But there will be like a new Netflix series and suddenly you watch the entire season in a night and so, like you can get people tuned in for long periods of time. So you just have to essentially know how to give people dopamine heads so that they keep paying attention. Oh my gosh.

0:11:41 - Natalie Jennings

Okay, well, let's. Maybe we'll bring it back kind of to the photographer realm a little bit, but you mentioned. There's some notes I have, but like why CEO shouldn't be their own CMO and I realize that applies to a larger company, but when it comes to like a one or two person business, would you recommend that everyone have someone dealing with their marketing, or is it? Does it kind of depend like?

0:12:03 - Nikki Nash

Yeah, so here is like my best friend. One of my best friends is has a photography business and she's actually a unique case because she used to have a career in marketing as well. But what I've noticed, and one of the challenges, is that there are a lot of different types of marketers and not every person that's an expert in an area is also a strategist. So there's differences between somebody who understands, like customer behavior and how to take someone from interested in having photo shoot or something along those lines done, whether they're looking for maternity photos or wedding photos or personal branding photos or business headshots or, you know, bourgeois border Boudoir.

0:12:52 - Natalie Jennings

You got it Making up words. It's cool.

0:12:56 - Nikki Nash

What I mean.

0:12:58 - Natalie Jennings

That's what we do.

0:13:00 - Nikki Nash

Like there's a difference between somebody who can understand what someone's behavior will be when they're searching for something and wanting something, and a person who's just aesthetically great at posting on Instagram.

And so I think one of the biggest challenges for people that are, you know, one man shops from a marketing perspective is that if you choose to get help, you have to truly understand the type of help you need and the type of help you're getting, because what often happens is, when you're newer in business or you're not making bank, what you can afford is typically someone that is tactical and they're like a technician and they can get stuff done, but that doesn't mean that they're actually a strategist.

So I wouldn't like say, hey, go, you're in charge of my Instagram or you're in charge of my Tik Tok or you're in charge of my website, and hope that they're going to be the one that actually brings you clients, because more likely than not, they are not someone who truly understands consumer behavior.

They probably don't understand your target audience very well, and if you're doing something particularly like wedding photography or, you know, newborn photography or a type of photography or even brand photo shoots, and they aren't someone who's ever been married, had a kid or had a business, they probably can't even relate to your target audience to get a sense of what they want, and so you've still end up being, in that case, the person that knows your audience best, and so it's really understanding how to best build a relationship with someone who is going to help you if they're not a strategist at heart, so that you don't feel like you are wasting money and also so that you don't make the mistake of thinking, hey, they know marketing, so I am, and I'm doing that in air quotes for people listening like they know marketing like they know something about marketing right and therefore they can be in charge of my staff, because I've seen a lot of businesses try to remove responsibility of bringing in clients from their plate and put it on someone who's allegedly an expert and then be upset and pissed off and frustrated that it's not working.

And, in my opinion, like you are the person in charge of generating revenue in your business at the beginning.

0:15:09 - Natalie Jennings

That's a great way to tie that up, like especially in the beginning, but also probably because photographers, as I said, it's like you're not working for volume, you're working. You know you could have a beautiful career with 100 clients, you know, I mean depending on what you're doing. So I'm curious if you could speak a little bit to just strategy, because that's another part of like this piece that you just mentioned. Like they might not have a strategy, but they might understand the platform. So if a photographer is like okay, I'm going to, I have a basic understanding of what I need to do on Instagram or whatever, just fill in the blank. What might a strategy? Sort of 101, or just like a couple of tips, like what might that look like? What? Why is that important?

0:15:51 - Nikki Nash

Yeah. So I have a framework for this. It's based on my belief that, because marketing is just building relationships what are relationships that most people, if not everybody, understands, either firsthand or from watching rom-coms and that is dating. Right, because business is not very different from dating, at least like the stages. And so when you really think about it and I'll talk through dating and pretend, insert rom-com here and then I'll align it to the marketing strategy for someone building their photography business but when you think about it, there's first what the if you're familiar with terminology in the entertainment space I actually learned this from the holiday, so it's very meta. It's like a rom-com teaching me about rom-coms.

And in the holiday they talk about a meet queue, which is when, like you know, two characters that will ultimately fall in love or have that relationship meet. So it could be oh my gosh, I dropped my pen at this cafe and then a man picks it up and looks me in the eyes and we're just like snitching, and then we start talking, et cetera. But there's usually that initial interaction where your business and your perspective client connects. Right, they hear about you, they connect with you, they see you. So there's the meet queue and then there's the hopefully, a conversation that leads to exchanging contact information.

So it's like, ultimately you want to get each other's digits or give a potential partner your number or something along those lines, and yeah, right. And then from there it's like all right, well, hopefully we'll go on a first date and maybe the first date will lead to a second date, and a second date will lead to a third date, and then ultimately we're dating at some point and then, depending on if you want resonate more with a phrase that my grandmother used to say or a phrase that Beyonce sang, my grandmother would say then you ultimately piss or get off the pot, right, like you, either like that's her phrase, or Beyonce would say you know, if you like it, then you better put a ring on it. And ultimately you decide are we like committing or not? And then you know, hopefully there's a wedding and a bunch of anniversaries and all that magic, right. And the same thing applies to your photography business. So you but you want to think through what is the logical sequence of events that mirror that for your business. So it's like the meet queue.

0:18:09 - Natalie Jennings

So you're not just like running out into the world like who's engaged, I will shoot your wedding, pay me the money, like that's like showing up on the first date and being like let's get married.

0:18:20 - Nikki Nash

Yeah that usually doesn't. That usually doesn't go too well. So you want to think like okay, how are people? And we'll just choose wedding photography as an example, but this could work, okay, sure, actually I lied. Since I've never been married, I probably have a better psyche of someone who's a business owner. So we're going to do brand photography. Yeah, let's do headshots. Yeah, that's great. Or like yeah, so you have someone that wants a personal brand photo shoot. Let's say their name is Nikki and they are the head of a marketing, consulting or coaching business, right. And so Nikki wants photos to use on our social media and to put on her website. And so what is Nikki going to do? Well, she's probably going to go all right. Well, who's great at this?

I may ask friends and ask around. I may also just head to Instagram and start typing in brand photography in Florida or just in general, because maybe Nikki's willing to travel and I'll just start searching, and then I'll look at people's stuff and get a sense of who has photography that I love, right, and it could be a way that we are first introduced. It could be through a referral or it could be through search, right? So I happen to tend to search on Instagram, your person may search on Google, so there's that way. If that could be the meet queue, then it's really okay what happens when they search and find you? So if I'm searching on Instagram and I get to your Instagram, do you have an easy way for me to then give you my contact information so that we can have a dialogue about what it really looks like to work together? Or, let alone, if you do brand photography, is your feed filled with the type and style of brand photography that you do? So I get a sense of if you're right for me in the first place. So you really want to kind of infuse that content in there. Maybe it's even you have stuff that's like, hey, behind the scenes of me doing brand photography with folks, or hey, here's how I recommend clients prepare for brand photo shoots, or here's content on how to know if you need a brand photo shoot in the first place, right, like there's just stuff for me to binge watch, like I'm watching Netflix and I consume, and that's kind of a combination of it's not necessarily an order in this analogy, but being able to have that, maybe initial conversation with you, and then maybe we kind of didn't even exchange contact information and we're kind of dating, right. But when there's some form of like, ooh, we're really like the person who's interested in working with you is really getting a sense of who you are and what it would be like to work with you. And then ultimately, if I were that client or customer, I'd then fill out a form on your site, hopefully, or maybe you have something where I can just, instead of filling out a form and then waiting for you to contact me, I could just book time on your calendar Maybe you have a calendar link or an acuity or something like that and I can just go bam, I picked a time we're going to meet and then it's really just a vibe check. I can tell you what I want and need, you can tell me if that's right for you, we can talk pricing and then we can kind of go from there.

I actually think the dating process for someone that is in a photography business can be shorter than some other industries, because typically somebody is actually looking for a photographer Like you already look half the battle, right. I think you're in a better place because typically people are actively seeking you, right. So I'm just about how can you best show up so that you're easy to find and that you have a mechanism in place for to be easily referred. And so you want to be able to say, okay, how, where are people likely searching for me? And then, how can I make sure that I show up Well, in the search engine, whether that's Google or Instagram or, you know, pinterest or whatever it is that use tend to be able to get clients from, and and then kind of builds an Ecosystem or or something there, so that people can, almost by the time they get on the phone with you, pretty much be a heck yeah, right, so that's incredibly helpful to really kind of think about.

Really, look at everything through the lens of somebody who is seeking the type of photographer that you are, and then, from a marketing perspective, I actually think it's easier To be in this type of business because people are seeking you and if you have people that are seeking you, how can you make their lives easier to be a heck yeah before they even get on the phone, so that really, if you're having phone conversations with folks, it's really a gut check like, oh yeah, we like each other. It's gonna be a quick wedding, not literally the photography wedding, but the wedding of the marketing analogy.

0:22:48 - Natalie Jennings

Yes, totally no. I'm glad I asked you that, though, because I think, like back to what I was referring to, I think, particularly with higher ticket items, like a wedding you know people are paying four grand or whatever to a photographer to it's not cheap, like you don't want to. Just even though the the road is a little shorter, as you said, like the dating time between meeting and and getting engaged or whatever, marketing wise, is shorter, it's still, I think, really Important to remember that you don't just want to like splatter the world with, like I'll shoot your wedding, you know, like you really want to build a little bit of a relationship First, and like that Part of strategy is not something that everybody thinks about because they immediately want to just sell the best thing they have yeah, and a piece that a lot of people don't think about and in Photography, when you have a photography business, the marketing isn't done once you're, for example, shooting the wedding, right, and here's what I mean.

0:23:41 - Nikki Nash

I was in a left in Richmond, virginia. This was years ago. It had to have been let's see if I wrote my book in 2020. It had to have been in maybe 2019 or 2018 and I was going to speak at a event, at a conference, and I'm in this lift ride and the driver literally just occasionally does rides to meet people because he had had a very successful Barber shop in New York. It was in one of the boroughs I can't remember which one, but he had a very successful business and Then he, when I told him that I was a coach or, you know, marketing coach etc. He's like, oh, you know what? I actually got into coaching because I had such a successful barber shop. People asked me how I did it. So he's like wasn't officially a coach, but he mentored people and and he said, you want to know what my secret was. I was like, yeah, he's like I would kiss my clients ass and then I would ask them to bring more asses in the door.

0:24:39 - Natalie Jennings

That's the list.

0:24:40 - Nikki Nash

Yeah, and he's like if I knew a client like champagne, I made sure I had the type of champagne that they liked when they had an appointment. If I knew they wanted a coke, I made sure I had Coca-Cola. Like, if I knew they liked sparkling water, I made sure they had sparkling water. He said I treated them like kings, to the point where they were like, oh my gosh, you're so generous, this is such an amazing experience. What can I do for you? And he's like just bring a friend, just tell somebody about me and have them make an appointment, that's it. And so his business blew up because he just treated people really well. And then when they were like, wow, this was such an amazing experience, how can I ever repay you? It's like I just spread my name around town. And so when you have this type of business, especially when it's like I still am not gonna be able to say this right, well, I'm trying, it's cool.

0:25:26 - Natalie Jennings

We all know.

0:25:28 - Nikki Nash

Sexy photos or baby photos or weddings. You're getting intimate with your client in a way that if you can make them feel Freaking amazing, if you can make it such an amazing experience Especially because they're probably really stressed out or really nervous or a little embarrassed, but a lot of emotions come out if you can handle that with grace and make them feel like they are literally like royalty, they're going to refer you even without you asking, but they may ask you what you need and you can ask for referrals, and that's to me the best marketing for this business a thousand percent and I just popped into my head like, from a photography perspective, I know that I'm doing that and a Version of that.

0:26:13 - Natalie Jennings

Well, when someone says to me at like I'm packing up my gear and getting ready to leave, when they're like that was amazing, I'm gonna refer you to people, like I'm gonna leave a review, like when they really praise me at the end of a shoot and they haven't even seen their photos yet, exactly so it's like no, you've already Delivered when someone's super happy. People used to do this at weddings. I don't shoot weddings anymore, but I did for ten years and people used to always be like you did such a great job. Today you did a great job, you know, and I'm like guys, you haven't even seen the photos yet, but you know that that that's when you know they're happy already.

0:26:45 - Nikki Nash

Exactly because, as much as I'm like, oh, that's the best way to get clients, I am not ignoring the fact that people, probably in this industry of doing photography deal with a lot of what we like to call Pita clients, which you know stands for pain and the you know what. Because people are. I watched a lot of judge Judy and every time there's a photography case it's always just you. These like what are you complaining about? And they're like they missed the photo of me Doing this one thing, which is all I wanted, and it's like, oh my gosh, like yes. So I know that you're not dealing with the easiest of clients, but if you can Handle it well and make them feel like kings and queens, it will do your business a lot of great service. Even when they are a hundred percent wrong, if you can still make them Feel like you were listening and that you care, it will go a long way.

0:27:37 - Natalie Jennings

That's beautiful. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Well, I do want to ask, before we sort of wrap stuff up, just if anything pops in your head. I know you don't probably work with a lot of photographers, but if I'm just starting to grow my photography business Nowadays not like when I started 14 years ago when, like SEO just worked really quickly and it was awesome there's just so much more going on and it's so much noisier. What is something that you would say don't do, because I think that would help people that might already be doing it to go like oh, maybe I should not do that, or maybe what should they do? I mean, whatever pops in your head first, do or don't.

0:28:14 - Nikki Nash

But I thought you were gonna go with do, so I'm gonna start with do and then I feel like a don't might come to me.

0:28:19 - Natalie Jennings

Okay, great. Yeah, my questions are coming out weird today.

0:28:24 - Nikki Nash

It keeps me on my toes. One of the things and I what's really funny is that you're like you probably don't deal with a lot of photographers, but actually a lot of photographers have purchased my book Market your genius. And the reason why I know this is because there's like a free Companion course in it and I can see when people sign up I usually ask them some questions like where they're at or if they stay in my community what they're doing, and I've been seeing a number of photographers. I'm like, oh, this is cool, so it's fun.

0:28:51 - Natalie Jennings

Tell me the name of your book again, just so everyone can hear it. Yeah, it's called market your genius, beautiful, and we obviously will have all this linked in the show notes, but I want to make sure that gets some attention to all. Right back to it. What should the photographer do?

0:29:04 - Nikki Nash

Yeah. So if you are new and let's say you're so new that you don't have like this great big portfolio Of photos and things like that, I see nothing wrong with like hiring and by hiring I don't really mean literally hiring, but asking friends of you like, hey, I am building out my portfolio because I know it's important for people to see the style of photos that I do. Can I shoot your baby? Can I shoot this? Can I? If there's a photographer that already exists, can you be a second shooter? And then can you ask them if, like the photos that you specifically took, if you can use some of those in your portfolio.

Like you know, figure out a way to have a Sample or portfolio of photos, because ultimately, that's what people are. What's going to draw people in, yeah, what's going to send them over the edge to love you is the way you treat them and how organized you are and and how you Work. But people are probably going to make the decision of if they're even interested and working with you are not based off of the photos. It's like the one instance where it's like don't judge a book by its cover. It's like no people are judging you by the cover, like they just are of course no, that's, you're right.

0:30:11 - Natalie Jennings

It's a very quick yes or no for a lot of people. Yeah.

0:30:13 - Nikki Nash

Yeah. So you want to make sure that you have a way to display your work and what I would do is I wouldn't Try to be on all the places. I think with social media there can be a lot of distractions. I would choose your go-to place and I would go all in on that. So, whether it's Pinterest or Instagram or you know, search to your website, but I would choose one thing and master it right and I would get creative.

I personally, if I were starting a photography business today, I would probably start with Instagram for a number of reasons which I'll talk about in a second, but I'll say what I would do. I would put up regularly photos from shoots that I've done. Even if I was just asking friends, I would do reels on, like Things that would be of interest to people, like three things not to do in a photo shoot, or five things to ask your wedding photographer to know if they're right for you, or I would come up with something Snack, like snazzy, or that would hook people really quickly, and I would do reels Every week. If I could do multiple reels a week, I would. I would even do ones of just me walking In a place where I'm a second shooting right or doing some sort of mock photo shoot, and I would just show a video of me walking and then put some text on it and say, like read the caption. And then the captions could be like here are things that you really want to do Before hiring a photographer. If you like my style and you want to have a conversation with me, send me a DM Something really simple, but I would be all in.

I would be like up Instagram's but I would do stories every day. I would literally just look at how great I am right. So I would do something like that. The reason why I would probably choose Instagram is because it has the Combination of being able to have the portfolio there and it has the ability to kind of get a little viral with reels. It has a place for you to put links and now you can do multiple links and you have stories which people can just see every day. And then I would tell every friend and person I know to please follow me and maybe like share one thing that they like, just to get it in front of more people. And Then I would have like an easy like system, like book a call with me if you're interested in learning more, I think you could build an entire business without even having a website, with just like Instagram and account, lee link or something like that.

0:32:33 - Natalie Jennings

That's just book a call absolutely, that's great advice and I think you're right on with Instagram. It's totally our. When I say are, I mean photographers, like our platform, because it's very visual and that's what people want to see. So good advice and this is something that might put you on the spot, but you can take as much time as you want, because we'll edit out the space. What is like one quote or piece of advice or something that like gets you motivated, or just something you want to leave people with, as far as like Just can be about life. It could be. You know, I have like post-its of quotes and stuff, but is there anything that you kind of go to when you're feeling like you need some Inspiration?

0:33:09 - Nikki Nash

yeah, so I actually have the word limitless tattooed on the inside of my left wrist. I'm like trying to show it to you, awkward because of the hand that it's on and I can't really move it because I broke this wrist in a car accident fairly recently, like I can't move it, but I have limitless printed on myself.

I believe you, and I like to look at it to remind myself that the way that I interpret it is that the only limits that are put upon me are the ones I put upon myself.

And so I like to remind myself that I'm actually limitless and, depending on what you, anybody Listening to this leaves in, whether they believe in the universe or God, like law of attraction or having faith, like doesn't matter to me what you believe in.

But I believe I tend to use the word God and I and that's new for me to actually say it publicly, like on a podcast and stuff like that.

But but I like to remind myself that, like, there is literally no limits and I'm not alone and I have support, and so the only time that I am Stopping myself, I'm being stopped or I feel like there's a roadblock, I'm typically it's some, it's a thought or something in my own head, and so if you can just go for it and realize that you know there's no such thing as failure you there, there are failures, but failures is an event, not a who you are or anything along those lines Then you know, just keep going and don't give up, and I've seen really great years in my business. I've seen terrible years in my business, and I still believe that the best is yet to come, and I just keep Going. And so, as a photographer, I had encouraged all of you to just keep going, regardless of what is happening in your Business or life. If it's something that you truly care about and truly enjoy, it's like. Keep doing it every day and remember that you're limitless.

0:34:56 - Natalie Jennings

I love that so much. It definitely is something that resonates for me and I feel like we could. You should just come back. We should do a whole episode on that, because I think Mindset is and I know that's not to do necessarily Specifically with marketing, but I think it does because I think that people get in their heads all the time about like, oh, I don't want to, like get on camera, I don't want to do a reel, or like there's a lot of mindset stuff personally, personal experience included like around Putting yourself out there and I think, just recognizing that and I'm Phrasing this a little differently than what you said but like you're really the only one in your own, like in your way, you know, I mean, it's just you being like well, maybe I won't, so I Love that. I think that's really powerful and I thank you for sharing that. So, before we jump off and this is in the show notes, but if people just want to hear it from you, where is the best place to find you and your book?

0:35:48 - Nikki Nash

Yes, so my website is nicking ash co. So nicking ash co and on there has like a bunch of free guides. It has access to my book, all that magic. But since I know y'all are on Instagram and I fricking love Instagram and this will hold me accountable because Even I have mindset stuff around consistently doing reels and consistently posting on stories. But I've been Consistently challenging myself to show up each and every day. So you can find me on Instagram at nicking ash official. I'm constantly giving like advice and guidance and if you see me on their comment, let me know. You heard from me from this podcast and you know. Tag Natalie and let her know that you're showing up and we can hold each other accountable for showing up on Instagram.

0:36:34 - Natalie Jennings

Cool, that's a great call out. Yeah, I'm like reaching for my phone like I gotta make sure I'm following you right now. Well, thank you, nikki, let's do this again. I really appreciate your time today.

0:36:43 - Nikki Nash

Absolutely.