1 00:00:01,050 --> 00:00:03,660 - The views and opinions expressed during this podcast 2 00:00:03,660 --> 00:00:05,160 are those of our guests. 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,550 No one person speaks for A.A. as a whole. 4 00:00:08,550 --> 00:00:10,860 - Clinton T. Duffy served as the warden 5 00:00:10,860 --> 00:00:15,450 of the San Quentin Penitentiary from 1940 to 1952. 6 00:00:15,450 --> 00:00:17,160 A pioneer in prison reform, 7 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,520 focusing on rehabilitation instead of punishment, 8 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,380 Duffy was one of the first to introduce 9 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:25,620 Alcoholics Anonymous behind prison walls. 10 00:00:25,620 --> 00:00:26,940 Even in those early years, 11 00:00:26,940 --> 00:00:29,850 Duffy noticed how many men were coming to his prison 12 00:00:29,850 --> 00:00:32,580 as a direct result of their drinking. 13 00:00:32,580 --> 00:00:35,310 Becoming convinced of the potential benefits of A.A., 14 00:00:35,310 --> 00:00:37,260 he recognized the necessity 15 00:00:37,260 --> 00:00:40,350 of bringing in outside A.A. members 16 00:00:40,350 --> 00:00:41,910 who could share their own recovery 17 00:00:41,910 --> 00:00:44,040 to the men behind the walls. 18 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,530 He was the very first to do so. 19 00:00:46,530 --> 00:00:50,550 Here is Duffy speaking at the 1950 International Convention, 20 00:00:50,550 --> 00:00:53,220 telling the story of the first outside A.A. member 21 00:00:53,220 --> 00:00:54,573 who came to San Quentin. 22 00:00:55,650 --> 00:00:57,723 - I'll never forget his opening remarks. 23 00:00:58,687 --> 00:01:01,897 "Fellows," he said, looking over the stiff audience, 24 00:01:01,897 --> 00:01:05,234 "before we start talking about Alcoholics Anonymous, 25 00:01:05,234 --> 00:01:07,740 I have a confession to make. 26 00:01:07,740 --> 00:01:09,060 I want to tell you, 27 00:01:09,060 --> 00:01:12,240 but for the grace of a power greater than myself, 28 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,060 I would be sitting out there with you today, 29 00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:17,210 listening to someone else make this speech. 30 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,773 For you see, I am an alcoholic, just like you. 31 00:01:24,030 --> 00:01:26,970 I'm one of the guys who knows what it's like 32 00:01:26,970 --> 00:01:29,550 to go through those blackout spells 33 00:01:29,550 --> 00:01:32,100 where you can't remember where you've been 34 00:01:32,100 --> 00:01:34,143 or what happened when you got there. 35 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:36,960 There's been a lot of mornings 36 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:40,380 when you could have told me I killed or robbed someone 37 00:01:40,380 --> 00:01:42,963 and I would have had to take your word for it. 38 00:01:43,890 --> 00:01:46,690 There have been plenty of times on the day after a spree 39 00:01:48,004 --> 00:01:49,680 that I've answered my doorbell 40 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,560 expecting a policeman to be there. 41 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,566 Maybe there should have been one 42 00:01:54,566 --> 00:01:55,817 because there are plenty of nights 43 00:01:55,817 --> 00:01:57,903 that I don't remember what happened. 44 00:01:59,130 --> 00:02:02,100 Alcoholics Anonymous deserves full credit 45 00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:03,240 for the difference from the way 46 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,267 you entered those front gates 47 00:02:05,267 --> 00:02:09,063 and the circumstances under which I came through them today. 48 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,971 Alcoholics Anonymous is the only thing 49 00:02:12,971 --> 00:02:16,450 that makes it possible for me to leave again this afternoon 50 00:02:17,340 --> 00:02:19,017 when the meeting is over." 51 00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:20,853 - Duffy went on to say 52 00:02:20,853 --> 00:02:24,120 that those who participated in A.A. while in prison 53 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:25,830 were more than three times as likely 54 00:02:25,830 --> 00:02:27,480 to make a success of parole 55 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,880 than the man who avoided the program. 56 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,380 Despite this stat, 57 00:02:31,380 --> 00:02:34,140 our primary purpose of delivering the A.A. message 58 00:02:34,140 --> 00:02:36,090 into correctional institutions 59 00:02:36,090 --> 00:02:39,030 proves to be a challenge time and again. 60 00:02:39,030 --> 00:02:42,870 But since Duffy introduced A.A. Behind the Walls, 61 00:02:42,870 --> 00:02:44,910 we've yet to be deterred. 62 00:02:44,910 --> 00:02:47,790 My name is Nathan, and I'm an alcoholic. 63 00:02:47,790 --> 00:02:49,012 Welcome to GSO. 64 00:02:49,012 --> 00:02:52,512 (light thoughtful music) 65 00:02:56,460 --> 00:02:59,910 I sat down with Eileen, the Corrections Staff Coordinator, 66 00:02:59,910 --> 00:03:03,180 to discuss how her experience in the position had been, 67 00:03:03,180 --> 00:03:05,040 and how the General Service Office, 68 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,110 along with countless trusted servants, 69 00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:10,380 carry the message of A.A. to the persons inside 70 00:03:10,380 --> 00:03:12,333 and released from custody. 71 00:03:14,820 --> 00:03:15,870 Hi, Eileen. 72 00:03:15,870 --> 00:03:16,703 - Hi, Nathan. 73 00:03:16,703 --> 00:03:17,536 - Thanks for joining us. 74 00:03:17,536 --> 00:03:19,320 - Thanks for having me. 75 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,270 - You were hired in 2022. 76 00:03:21,270 --> 00:03:22,103 - Yeah. 77 00:03:22,103 --> 00:03:24,480 - And they immediately put you on the corrections desk. 78 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:25,313 - Yeah. - Yeah. 79 00:03:25,313 --> 00:03:28,260 And the correspondence you have with persons in custody, 80 00:03:28,260 --> 00:03:29,253 these are letters. 81 00:03:29,253 --> 00:03:30,090 - Yeah. 82 00:03:30,090 --> 00:03:34,050 Yeah, we get anywhere from 80 to 100 a week that we read, 83 00:03:34,050 --> 00:03:36,540 and we respond to. 84 00:03:36,540 --> 00:03:39,870 And we meet the need, whether they want literature, 85 00:03:39,870 --> 00:03:42,480 whether they want a service we provide, 86 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,130 the Corrections Correspondence Service. 87 00:03:44,130 --> 00:03:45,180 - Yeah, what's that? 88 00:03:45,180 --> 00:03:47,160 - So the Corrections Correspondence Service 89 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:48,690 is a service where we match 90 00:03:48,690 --> 00:03:53,010 an inside member, outside member, and they correspond. 91 00:03:53,010 --> 00:03:58,010 So I think, in 2023, we've matched 3,500 pairs. 92 00:03:58,499 --> 00:03:59,332 - Wow. 93 00:03:59,332 --> 00:04:03,600 - So it's a huge service that we offer. 94 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,300 And what it helps to provide 95 00:04:06,300 --> 00:04:09,180 is that personal support for a member in custody, 96 00:04:09,180 --> 00:04:11,880 who, especially now after COVID, 97 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,670 many facilities don't have staff. 98 00:04:14,670 --> 00:04:17,100 So there's not a lot of volunteer activities going on 99 00:04:17,100 --> 00:04:19,110 where people come in and bring meetings. 100 00:04:19,110 --> 00:04:23,370 And so this gives that person in custody an opportunity 101 00:04:23,370 --> 00:04:27,660 to have contact with an A.A. member on a more regular basis. 102 00:04:27,660 --> 00:04:28,890 - Could anyone get involved 103 00:04:28,890 --> 00:04:30,360 with the Corrections Correspondence Service? 104 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,540 - Yes. Any outside member can write to us. 105 00:04:33,540 --> 00:04:37,860 There's a signup sheet on the website, AA.org. 106 00:04:37,860 --> 00:04:39,630 If you go to Corrections Committee, 107 00:04:39,630 --> 00:04:43,410 there's all sorts of information on correction service work, 108 00:04:43,410 --> 00:04:46,290 and there's a CCS signup form. 109 00:04:46,290 --> 00:04:48,720 - And now what about the Pre-Release Contact Service? 110 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:49,553 What's that? 111 00:04:49,553 --> 00:04:50,760 - Yeah, that service is a little different 112 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,790 because we provide it as well as local areas. 113 00:04:53,790 --> 00:04:55,500 So the pre-release is when a person's 114 00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:57,660 gonna come out of custody; 115 00:04:57,660 --> 00:04:59,880 we try to match them with a member outside 116 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:01,980 who's gonna take them to their first meeting. 117 00:05:01,980 --> 00:05:04,080 We want to meet them and take them to their first meeting 118 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,060 and be that contact for them. 119 00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:07,950 - On this desk you're in contact 120 00:05:07,950 --> 00:05:10,050 with persons in custody a lot, 121 00:05:10,050 --> 00:05:12,630 but then also you have a lot of correspondence 122 00:05:12,630 --> 00:05:13,860 with trusted servants. 123 00:05:13,860 --> 00:05:14,845 - Mm-hmm. Yeah. 124 00:05:14,845 --> 00:05:17,047 - What is it like to be immediately working 125 00:05:17,047 --> 00:05:17,880 with trusted servants? 126 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:19,050 - They are so passionate. 127 00:05:19,050 --> 00:05:21,210 It's an interesting service position 128 00:05:21,210 --> 00:05:25,530 because often the facility requires 129 00:05:25,530 --> 00:05:27,420 a relationship with that A.A. member. 130 00:05:27,420 --> 00:05:29,610 So you're going to have a longer 131 00:05:29,610 --> 00:05:31,680 relationship with the correctional facility, 132 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,010 and people don't rotate like we usually do in A.A. 133 00:05:35,010 --> 00:05:39,150 And I feel like I share all the time 134 00:05:39,150 --> 00:05:41,190 that I have been spiritually rearranged 135 00:05:41,190 --> 00:05:42,330 by working on this desk. 136 00:05:42,330 --> 00:05:45,510 It is like nothing I've ever experienced as an A.A. member, 137 00:05:45,510 --> 00:05:48,000 when you talk to people who are in custody 138 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,450 who are grateful for a "Grapevine," for the preamble, 139 00:05:51,450 --> 00:05:54,480 for contact, and for a piece of literature, 140 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:59,280 and I realize how much I took for granted. 141 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:02,040 And these members, when you get that feeling 142 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:03,630 of what it's like to give that, 143 00:06:03,630 --> 00:06:06,330 that's the magic of A.A., right? 144 00:06:06,330 --> 00:06:07,890 This is our purpose. 145 00:06:07,890 --> 00:06:10,260 We get sober to help others. 146 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:15,000 So when you find something that hits that so deeply, 147 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,070 it's no wonder there's a lot of passion. 148 00:06:17,070 --> 00:06:20,520 And so a lot of the correspondence are... 149 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,100 A lot of them are just from members 150 00:06:23,100 --> 00:06:25,320 who wanna bring a meeting to a facility. 151 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:26,880 We say, "Okay, let's connect you 152 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,760 to the area committee chair, the district committee chair, 153 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,240 so we can all connect in a way that's 154 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,000 we're not just showing up at a correction facility door." 155 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,860 Although I'm sure that sometimes happens, too. 156 00:06:37,860 --> 00:06:39,955 The pioneering of A.A. is still going on. 157 00:06:39,955 --> 00:06:42,150 We still have so much work to do 158 00:06:42,150 --> 00:06:44,190 as far as getting the message out. 159 00:06:44,190 --> 00:06:45,960 - What kind of requests do you receive directly 160 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,520 from persons in custody? 161 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,570 - So we get requests on what the Fellowship is asking for 162 00:06:51,570 --> 00:06:53,430 and trusted servants in Corrections 163 00:06:53,430 --> 00:06:57,090 that we're asking for information on online meetings, 164 00:06:57,090 --> 00:07:00,150 facilitating online meetings in prisons and jails. 165 00:07:00,150 --> 00:07:03,270 The people inside are in a room; they're in the meeting, 166 00:07:03,270 --> 00:07:04,500 and it's just like you would imagine 167 00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:06,300 an online meeting that we attend. 168 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:07,800 And the people on the inside 169 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,510 are the ones facilitating the meeting. 170 00:07:09,510 --> 00:07:11,340 They're leading; they're reading how it works. 171 00:07:11,340 --> 00:07:14,040 It's literally an A.A. meeting, just like you would imagine. 172 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,250 So what we've done on the desk, what we often do, 173 00:07:17,250 --> 00:07:19,170 is we'll reach out to the Fellowship 174 00:07:19,170 --> 00:07:21,600 and say, Please share your experience 175 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,050 with facilitating online meetings 176 00:07:25,050 --> 00:07:26,610 or any experience you've had." 177 00:07:26,610 --> 00:07:28,080 A service piece we're working on 178 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:33,080 is a way to communicate this service to the Fellowship. 179 00:07:33,420 --> 00:07:35,700 We have shared experience from the members 180 00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:39,090 who benefit from this service, 181 00:07:39,090 --> 00:07:40,350 and they said, "Whatever you do, 182 00:07:40,350 --> 00:07:42,150 you need to get these stories out." 183 00:07:42,150 --> 00:07:43,800 So that's our work. 184 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,350 - So, correspondence, meetings. 185 00:07:46,350 --> 00:07:48,057 I wanna talk about literature, too. 186 00:07:48,057 --> 00:07:49,950 But what about sponsorship? 187 00:07:49,950 --> 00:07:51,660 - The other thing that we worked hard on 188 00:07:51,660 --> 00:07:54,090 was the inside sponsorship. 189 00:07:54,090 --> 00:07:57,450 In order to serve a member, you have literature, 190 00:07:57,450 --> 00:07:59,400 you have meetings, but you have sponsorship. 191 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,270 And often when committees bring a meeting into a facility, 192 00:08:03,270 --> 00:08:06,750 you cannot have personal contact with those members inside, 193 00:08:06,750 --> 00:08:08,460 so you can't sponsor. 194 00:08:08,460 --> 00:08:12,180 So inside visitation allows the A.A. member to get on 195 00:08:12,180 --> 00:08:15,450 the person in custody's visitation list 196 00:08:15,450 --> 00:08:18,180 and have one-on-one meetings, 197 00:08:18,180 --> 00:08:20,580 and then sponsorship can emerge. 198 00:08:20,580 --> 00:08:24,330 And that's another new way of serving the people in custody 199 00:08:24,330 --> 00:08:27,180 so people can contact the corrections desk, 200 00:08:27,180 --> 00:08:29,130 and we can put you in contact with members 201 00:08:29,130 --> 00:08:30,840 serving in that way. 202 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,210 - Getting literature into correctional facilities 203 00:08:33,210 --> 00:08:34,680 is always a big challenge. 204 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:36,240 You have certain requirements, 205 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,000 usually no staples, no hard covers. 206 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,640 But still, when you follow all those protocols, 207 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,340 a lot of the time it'll still get denied. 208 00:08:44,340 --> 00:08:47,490 So I've heard about these tablet programs in jails 209 00:08:47,490 --> 00:08:48,360 and prisons. 210 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,320 The folks who are incarcerated are able to access emails, 211 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,510 books, music, other media. 212 00:08:54,510 --> 00:08:56,280 How does A.A. fit in? 213 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,220 - We're able to have contracts with the vendors 214 00:08:59,220 --> 00:09:02,100 who supply information on those tablets. 215 00:09:02,100 --> 00:09:06,060 So we have so many pieces of literature, 216 00:09:06,060 --> 00:09:07,950 and we also have audiobooks. 217 00:09:07,950 --> 00:09:10,800 And we just did the "Daily Reflection" in audiobook, 218 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,050 and, like, I think there's thousands of people 219 00:09:13,050 --> 00:09:14,370 who have already downloaded that 220 00:09:14,370 --> 00:09:16,920 within, like, a very short amount of time. 221 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:21,780 So it's been an amazing opportunity to provide the message 222 00:09:21,780 --> 00:09:26,190 of A.A. to people who sometimes don't get mail physically. 223 00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:29,310 It is one of hopefully many services we can provide, 224 00:09:29,310 --> 00:09:31,960 and that can only help for people who are in custody. 225 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,950 - Do you have an estimate of how many tablets 226 00:09:34,950 --> 00:09:36,630 are in correctional facilities? 227 00:09:36,630 --> 00:09:40,350 - Over 400,000 and I know that we had literature 228 00:09:40,350 --> 00:09:43,860 in about 340 prisons in a year. 229 00:09:43,860 --> 00:09:45,240 - Has there been any big surprises 230 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:46,980 while working on the Corrections desk? 231 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:49,080 - So it's changed my perspective 232 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,010 and my respect for just the people. 233 00:09:53,010 --> 00:09:55,530 They're people who do their time; they come out, 234 00:09:55,530 --> 00:10:00,270 and then we get busy just treating them like A.A. members. 235 00:10:00,270 --> 00:10:01,860 - I can see behind your desk 236 00:10:01,860 --> 00:10:04,410 there's this very powerful photograph. 237 00:10:04,410 --> 00:10:07,710 It's a group of men, but I can't see who they are 238 00:10:07,710 --> 00:10:10,320 because each person is holding up a copy of the "Grapevine" 239 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,080 in front of their face. 240 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,580 - It's a picture of a group 241 00:10:14,580 --> 00:10:17,670 in the Angola prison in Louisiana. 242 00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:19,860 The group is called The Last Supper, 243 00:10:19,860 --> 00:10:23,310 and it is a group of people on death row, 244 00:10:23,310 --> 00:10:26,430 and they meet feet from where they're gonna be executed, 245 00:10:26,430 --> 00:10:28,890 and they carry the message of Alcoholics Anonymous 246 00:10:28,890 --> 00:10:30,513 a day at a time and stay sober. 247 00:10:31,860 --> 00:10:32,700 - Thanks for joining us. 248 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:34,425 - Thanks so much for having me. 249 00:10:34,425 --> 00:10:36,630 (light thoughtful music) 250 00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:39,457 - For current and all previous issues of the newsletter, 251 00:10:39,457 --> 00:10:41,490 "Sharing from Behind the Walls," 252 00:10:41,490 --> 00:10:44,460 please visit our website, aa.org. 253 00:10:44,460 --> 00:10:46,440 If you are interested in getting involved 254 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,660 in the Corrections Correspondence program, 255 00:10:48,660 --> 00:10:51,720 sign-up forms as well as Insider Request forms 256 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,970 can also be found on our website 257 00:10:53,970 --> 00:10:57,450 along with all kinds of helpful information. 258 00:10:57,450 --> 00:10:59,400 - For more information about A.A., 259 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,373 please visit our website at aa.org. 260 00:11:05,490 --> 00:11:08,160 For more information on "Grapevine" and "La Viña," 261 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,090 including the magazines, podcast, Instagram, and apps, 262 00:11:12,090 --> 00:11:14,580 please visit aagrapevine.org 263 00:11:14,580 --> 00:11:16,743 and aalavina.org. 264 00:11:19,230 --> 00:11:20,820 For local A.A. resources, 265 00:11:20,820 --> 00:11:25,173 check out the AA Near You finder on our homepage, at aa.org. 266 00:11:26,850 --> 00:11:29,460 - We've heard about how folks in the General Service Office 267 00:11:29,460 --> 00:11:31,830 try to support the dedicated A.A. members 268 00:11:31,830 --> 00:11:33,870 who carry the message of hope and recovery 269 00:11:33,870 --> 00:11:37,230 to those on the inside of correctional facilities. 270 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:40,410 But what is like to get sober when you're locked up? 271 00:11:40,410 --> 00:11:42,810 We had a chance to sit down with one member 272 00:11:42,810 --> 00:11:44,583 who agreed to tell us their story. 273 00:11:45,540 --> 00:11:46,920 - Hi, my name is Tabber. 274 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:48,180 I'm an alcoholic. 275 00:11:48,180 --> 00:11:52,560 I've been sober since January 28th, 2013. 276 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:56,460 I got sober a few days before I went into prison. 277 00:11:56,460 --> 00:12:00,450 I had been to A.A. prior for about six months, 278 00:12:00,450 --> 00:12:02,100 but I relapsed. 279 00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:04,320 And then just before I went in, 280 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,960 I had this thought that drinking 281 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,543 or using drugs is not going to help me in prison. 282 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,970 So I went into prison as a result of drinking 283 00:12:14,970 --> 00:12:19,050 and driving during a blackout and hitting this person. 284 00:12:19,050 --> 00:12:22,530 And I ended up going to prison for three years 285 00:12:22,530 --> 00:12:23,970 and three months. 286 00:12:23,970 --> 00:12:27,540 They didn't have A.A., and they didn't have an alcohol 287 00:12:27,540 --> 00:12:30,150 and substance abuse treatment program. 288 00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:31,950 And I lobbied for both. 289 00:12:31,950 --> 00:12:34,890 And two volunteers who had combined 290 00:12:34,890 --> 00:12:38,730 over 60 years of sobriety began coming once a week 291 00:12:38,730 --> 00:12:41,010 to that prison to bring meetings to us. 292 00:12:41,010 --> 00:12:43,660 - What was that like, trying to stay sober in prison? 293 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,290 - Prison is awful. 294 00:12:46,290 --> 00:12:50,490 Some people have tools to survive; some people don't. 295 00:12:50,490 --> 00:12:54,540 So being in prison was extremely challenging. 296 00:12:54,540 --> 00:12:57,000 But gaining access to A.A., 297 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,840 I was able to get a benefit of having A.A. in prison 298 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,820 with these volunteers that, again, you know, 299 00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:05,220 went to great lengths to be there, 300 00:13:05,220 --> 00:13:07,470 to volunteer to drive in. 301 00:13:07,470 --> 00:13:08,850 People think that when you're in prison, 302 00:13:08,850 --> 00:13:11,100 you don't have access to alcohol and drugs, 303 00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:13,050 but that's not true. 304 00:13:13,050 --> 00:13:18,050 In prison, there's lots of supply of drugs 305 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,030 and alcohol if you really want it. 306 00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:22,320 - So how did you get help? 307 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,490 - With A.A. there and having these volunteers coming in 308 00:13:26,490 --> 00:13:27,900 and hearing their stories 309 00:13:27,900 --> 00:13:31,170 and having them relate to us their journey, 310 00:13:31,170 --> 00:13:34,350 their way of overcoming their own addiction, 311 00:13:34,350 --> 00:13:37,530 and sharing with them our stories and our struggles, 312 00:13:37,530 --> 00:13:39,750 I think really helped us tremendously. 313 00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:44,750 I also availed myself of the program where you can write 314 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,460 and request having a pen pal through A.A., 315 00:13:47,460 --> 00:13:49,830 - You mean the Corrections Correspondence program? 316 00:13:49,830 --> 00:13:50,850 - Absolutely, yes. 317 00:13:50,850 --> 00:13:53,190 So, I would write letters to this person, 318 00:13:53,190 --> 00:13:54,300 and they would write back to me 319 00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:55,950 about once every couple months. 320 00:13:55,950 --> 00:13:57,390 And that was very helpful as well. 321 00:13:57,390 --> 00:13:59,340 And that was through A.A. 322 00:13:59,340 --> 00:14:01,470 The relationship was extremely helpful to me 323 00:14:01,470 --> 00:14:04,260 because I built a connection to people. 324 00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:08,340 And by having that Fellowship in that meeting in prison, 325 00:14:08,340 --> 00:14:11,730 it was almost like for a little bit 326 00:14:11,730 --> 00:14:15,570 each time we had that meeting, not being in prison. 327 00:14:15,570 --> 00:14:19,290 And so it made it actually easier overall. 328 00:14:19,290 --> 00:14:21,840 It felt a little bit more human again. 329 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,367 It felt like we were a little bit freer in some ways. 330 00:14:25,367 --> 00:14:29,200 (gentle contemplative music) 331 00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:35,130 One of the things that people in my situation are faced with 332 00:14:35,130 --> 00:14:36,780 are these parole hearings 333 00:14:36,780 --> 00:14:39,120 where you're judged over and over again 334 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,880 based on something that you cannot change. 335 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,010 So one of the things that you can do 336 00:14:44,010 --> 00:14:46,890 to show evidence of your change 337 00:14:46,890 --> 00:14:49,470 is not just in words but in actions. 338 00:14:49,470 --> 00:14:52,950 So going to A.A., committing to doing that, 339 00:14:52,950 --> 00:14:54,900 learning from the volunteers, 340 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:57,630 the communications with people on the outside, 341 00:14:57,630 --> 00:15:00,960 it shows that you have a connection to the community. 342 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,990 And I think that that all helps you 343 00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:07,080 to show to the parole board that you deserve 344 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,803 a fair chance at success in the community outside of prison. 345 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,730 It also laid the groundwork when I got out of prison 346 00:15:14,730 --> 00:15:17,460 for me to be a success out in the community 347 00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:18,510 when I returned home. 348 00:15:18,510 --> 00:15:20,880 - So what was it like when you returned home? 349 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,720 - So when I was released from prison, 350 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,610 I had lost all my money. 351 00:15:26,610 --> 00:15:29,160 I had a property bag that I was carrying around, 352 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:30,870 and I didn't have a stable place to live 353 00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:32,550 for quite some time. 354 00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:35,400 But what I did have was A.A. 355 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,790 I met other people in the program 356 00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:40,800 who gave me hope, you know? 357 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,920 I completed the 12 steps, and I actually apologized 358 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,920 to the person that I hurt drinking and driving in person. 359 00:15:49,170 --> 00:15:51,000 I was able to apologize to him 360 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,430 and make amends to him in person, 361 00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:55,080 which was a very powerful experience, 362 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,040 only because, I think, of A.A. and my sober way of living. 363 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,270 I was told by my sponsor when I got home 364 00:16:03,270 --> 00:16:07,263 that I should basically say yes to everything, 365 00:16:08,580 --> 00:16:10,440 within reason, but everything within A.A. 366 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,690 So anytime someone asked me, 367 00:16:12,690 --> 00:16:14,940 even if I thought initially it was at a bad time, 368 00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:16,530 I found ways to schedule around it 369 00:16:16,530 --> 00:16:18,360 and to speak about my story. 370 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,040 And I started speaking on DWI victim impact panels 371 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,160 at hospitals and schools 372 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,370 and rehab facilities, co-chairing meetings. 373 00:16:29,370 --> 00:16:31,470 Set up before and after. 374 00:16:31,470 --> 00:16:33,930 Put away chairs, man, you know? 375 00:16:33,930 --> 00:16:35,760 - What would you say to anyone listening 376 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,973 who's struggled with drinking that's now in jail or prison? 377 00:16:40,740 --> 00:16:42,063 - You are not alone. 378 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,120 You are not alone. 379 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,930 There are people in A.A., people who are sober, 380 00:16:48,930 --> 00:16:51,300 that will connect with you. 381 00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:53,340 And you may need to reach out to them, 382 00:16:53,340 --> 00:16:55,230 but I would highly encourage doing that. 383 00:16:55,230 --> 00:16:58,170 I'd highly encourage going to A.A. meetings in prison. 384 00:16:58,170 --> 00:17:00,750 It's a fantastic way to set yourself up 385 00:17:00,750 --> 00:17:02,950 for greater success when you come back home. 386 00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:07,860 I would encourage people that are in A.A. 387 00:17:07,860 --> 00:17:10,080 to think about bringing meetings to prisons 388 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,020 or jails where they can, if that's a possibility for them. 389 00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:16,470 If not, to volunteer with GSO 390 00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:20,670 to be people that can be reached out to in a confidential, 391 00:17:20,670 --> 00:17:22,200 anonymous kind of way. 392 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,840 And also contributing funds 393 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:26,460 where it helps to spread literature 394 00:17:26,460 --> 00:17:28,980 and send literature to people in prison. 395 00:17:28,980 --> 00:17:31,020 People in prison are people. 396 00:17:31,020 --> 00:17:33,570 Let's not judge people based solely on 397 00:17:33,570 --> 00:17:36,270 the very worst thing that they've ever done in life. 398 00:17:36,270 --> 00:17:37,920 Just like you are not the worst thing 399 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:39,390 that you've done in life. 400 00:17:39,390 --> 00:17:42,930 And so I believe that if we show love and compassion 401 00:17:42,930 --> 00:17:45,450 and support and connection with A.A., 402 00:17:45,450 --> 00:17:47,910 I think it could be a huge benefit to people. 403 00:17:47,910 --> 00:17:51,510 And to people on the outside, based on my own experience. 404 00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:53,490 I think being of service 405 00:17:53,490 --> 00:17:56,160 is a way to get you outside of your own head, 406 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,430 is a way for you to live a better life, 407 00:17:59,430 --> 00:18:02,370 and this new way of living is really one 408 00:18:02,370 --> 00:18:04,230 where you can connect with people, 409 00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:06,579 and that's really what it's all about I think. 410 00:18:06,579 --> 00:18:10,412 (light mid-tempo rock music) 411 00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:15,660 - We hope you enjoyed this week's episode; 412 00:18:15,660 --> 00:18:18,183 be sure to subscribe so you can keep coming back. 413 00:18:21,087 --> 00:18:24,780 - In this podcast, we respect the anonymity of A.A. members. 414 00:18:24,780 --> 00:18:28,653 Last names are shared only for those who are not in A.A. 415 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,480 Thank you for listening to "Our Primary Purpose," 416 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,510 a podcast produced by the General Service Office 417 00:18:36,510 --> 00:18:39,150 on behalf of the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous 418 00:18:39,150 --> 00:18:40,683 in the U.S. and Canada.