- The views and opinions

expressed during this podcast

are those of our guests.

No one person speaks for A.A. as a whole.

- Clinton T. Duffy served as the warden

of the San Quentin

Penitentiary from 1940 to 1952.

A pioneer in prison reform,

focusing on rehabilitation

instead of punishment,

Duffy was one of the first to introduce

Alcoholics Anonymous behind prison walls.

Even in those early years,

Duffy noticed how many men

were coming to his prison

as a direct result of their drinking.

Becoming convinced of the

potential benefits of A.A.,

he recognized the necessity

of bringing in outside A.A. members

who could share their own recovery

to the men behind the walls.

He was the very first to do so.

Here is Duffy speaking at the

1950 International Convention,

telling the story of the

first outside A.A. member

who came to San Quentin.

- I'll never forget his opening remarks.

"Fellows," he said, looking

over the stiff audience,

"before we start talking

about Alcoholics Anonymous,

I have a confession to make.

I want to tell you,

but for the grace of a

power greater than myself,

I would be sitting out

there with you today,

listening to someone

else make this speech.

For you see, I am an

alcoholic, just like you.

I'm one of the guys who

knows what it's like

to go through those blackout spells

where you can't remember where you've been

or what happened when you got there.

There's been a lot of mornings

when you could have told me

I killed or robbed someone

and I would have had to

take your word for it.

There have been plenty of

times on the day after a spree

that I've answered my doorbell

expecting a policeman to be there.

Maybe there should have been one

because there are plenty of nights

that I don't remember what happened.

Alcoholics Anonymous deserves full credit

for the difference from the way

you entered those front gates

and the circumstances under

which I came through them today.

Alcoholics Anonymous is the only thing

that makes it possible for me

to leave again this afternoon

when the meeting is over."

- Duffy went on to say

that those who participated

in A.A. while in prison

were more than three times as likely

to make a success of parole

than the man who avoided the program.

Despite this stat,

our primary purpose of

delivering the A.A. message

into correctional institutions

proves to be a challenge time and again.

But since Duffy introduced

A.A. Behind the Walls,

we've yet to be deterred.

My name is Nathan, and I'm an alcoholic.

Welcome to GSO.

(light thoughtful music)

I sat down with Eileen, the

Corrections Staff Coordinator,

to discuss how her experience

in the position had been,

and how the General Service Office,

along with countless trusted servants,

carry the message of A.A.

to the persons inside

and released from custody.

Hi, Eileen.

- Hi, Nathan.

- Thanks for joining us.

- Thanks for having me.

- You were hired in 2022.

- Yeah.

- And they immediately put

you on the corrections desk.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

And the correspondence you

have with persons in custody,

these are letters.

- Yeah.

Yeah, we get anywhere from 80

to 100 a week that we read,

and we respond to.

And we meet the need,

whether they want literature,

whether they want a service we provide,

the Corrections Correspondence Service.

- Yeah, what's that?

- So the Corrections

Correspondence Service

is a service where we match

an inside member, outside

member, and they correspond.

So I think, in 2023,

we've matched 3,500 pairs.

- Wow.

- So it's a huge service that we offer.

And what it helps to provide

is that personal support

for a member in custody,

who, especially now after COVID,

many facilities don't have staff.

So there's not a lot of

volunteer activities going on

where people come in and bring meetings.

And so this gives that person

in custody an opportunity

to have contact with an A.A.

member on a more regular basis.

- Could anyone get involved

with the Corrections

Correspondence Service?

- Yes. Any outside member can write to us.

There's a signup sheet

on the website, AA.org.

If you go to Corrections Committee,

there's all sorts of information

on correction service work,

and there's a CCS signup form.

- And now what about the

Pre-Release Contact Service?

What's that?

- Yeah, that service is a little different

because we provide it

as well as local areas.

So the pre-release is when a person's

gonna come out of custody;

we try to match them with a member outside

who's gonna take them

to their first meeting.

We want to meet them and take

them to their first meeting

and be that contact for them.

- On this desk you're in contact

with persons in custody a lot,

but then also you have

a lot of correspondence

with trusted servants.

- Mm-hmm. Yeah.

- What is it like to

be immediately working

with trusted servants?

- They are so passionate.

It's an interesting service position

because often the facility requires

a relationship with that A.A. member.

So you're going to have a longer

relationship with the

correctional facility,

and people don't rotate

like we usually do in A.A.

And I feel like I share all the time

that I have been spiritually rearranged

by working on this desk.

It is like nothing I've ever

experienced as an A.A. member,

when you talk to people who are in custody

who are grateful for a

"Grapevine," for the preamble,

for contact, and for

a piece of literature,

and I realize how much I took for granted.

And these members, when

you get that feeling

of what it's like to give that,

that's the magic of A.A., right?

This is our purpose.

We get sober to help others.

So when you find something

that hits that so deeply,

it's no wonder there's a lot of passion.

And so a lot of the correspondence are...

A lot of them are just from members

who wanna bring a meeting to a facility.

We say, "Okay, let's connect you

to the area committee chair,

the district committee chair,

so we can all connect in a way that's

we're not just showing up at

a correction facility door."

Although I'm sure that

sometimes happens, too.

The pioneering of A.A. is still going on.

We still have so much work to do

as far as getting the message out.

- What kind of requests

do you receive directly

from persons in custody?

- So we get requests on what

the Fellowship is asking for

and trusted servants in Corrections

that we're asking for

information on online meetings,

facilitating online meetings

in prisons and jails.

The people inside are in a

room; they're in the meeting,

and it's just like you would imagine

an online meeting that we attend.

And the people on the inside

are the ones facilitating the meeting.

They're leading; they're

reading how it works.

It's literally an A.A. meeting,

just like you would imagine.

So what we've done on the

desk, what we often do,

is we'll reach out to the Fellowship

and say, Please share your experience

with facilitating online meetings

or any experience you've had."

A service piece we're working on

is a way to communicate this

service to the Fellowship.

We have shared experience from the members

who benefit from this service,

and they said, "Whatever you do,

you need to get these stories out."

So that's our work.

- So, correspondence, meetings.

I wanna talk about literature, too.

But what about sponsorship?

- The other thing that we worked hard on

was the inside sponsorship.

In order to serve a member,

you have literature,

you have meetings, but

you have sponsorship.

And often when committees bring

a meeting into a facility,

you cannot have personal contact

with those members inside,

so you can't sponsor.

So inside visitation allows

the A.A. member to get on

the person in custody's visitation list

and have one-on-one meetings,

and then sponsorship can emerge.

And that's another new way of

serving the people in custody

so people can contact

the corrections desk,

and we can put you in contact with members

serving in that way.

- Getting literature into

correctional facilities

is always a big challenge.

You have certain requirements,

usually no staples, no hard covers.

But still, when you follow

all those protocols,

a lot of the time it'll still get denied.

So I've heard about these

tablet programs in jails

and prisons.

The folks who are incarcerated

are able to access emails,

books, music, other media.

How does A.A. fit in?

- We're able to have

contracts with the vendors

who supply information on those tablets.

So we have so many pieces of literature,

and we also have audiobooks.

And we just did the "Daily

Reflection" in audiobook,

and, like, I think there's

thousands of people

who have already downloaded that

within, like, a very short amount of time.

So it's been an amazing

opportunity to provide the message

of A.A. to people who sometimes

don't get mail physically.

It is one of hopefully many

services we can provide,

and that can only help for

people who are in custody.

- Do you have an estimate

of how many tablets

are in correctional facilities?

- Over 400,000 and I know

that we had literature

in about 340 prisons in a year.

- Has there been any big surprises

while working on the Corrections desk?

- So it's changed my perspective

and my respect for just the people.

They're people who do

their time; they come out,

and then we get busy just

treating them like A.A. members.

- I can see behind your desk

there's this very powerful photograph.

It's a group of men, but

I can't see who they are

because each person is holding

up a copy of the "Grapevine"

in front of their face.

- It's a picture of a group

in the Angola prison in Louisiana.

The group is called The Last Supper,

and it is a group of people on death row,

and they meet feet from where

they're gonna be executed,

and they carry the message

of Alcoholics Anonymous

a day at a time and stay sober.

- Thanks for joining us.

- Thanks so much for having me.

(light thoughtful music)

- For current and all previous

issues of the newsletter,

"Sharing from Behind the Walls,"

please visit our website, aa.org.

If you are interested in getting involved

in the Corrections Correspondence program,

sign-up forms as well

as Insider Request forms

can also be found on our website

along with all kinds

of helpful information.

- For more information about A.A.,

please visit our website at aa.org.

For more information on

"Grapevine" and "La Viña,"

including the magazines,

podcast, Instagram, and apps,

please visit aagrapevine.org

and aalavina.org.

For local A.A. resources,

check out the AA Near You finder

on our homepage, at aa.org.

- We've heard about how folks

in the General Service Office

try to support the dedicated A.A. members

who carry the message of hope and recovery

to those on the inside of

correctional facilities.

But what is like to get

sober when you're locked up?

We had a chance to sit

down with one member

who agreed to tell us their story.

- Hi, my name is Tabber.

I'm an alcoholic.

I've been sober since January 28th, 2013.

I got sober a few days

before I went into prison.

I had been to A.A. prior

for about six months,

but I relapsed.

And then just before I went in,

I had this thought that drinking

or using drugs is not

going to help me in prison.

So I went into prison

as a result of drinking

and driving during a blackout

and hitting this person.

And I ended up going to

prison for three years

and three months.

They didn't have A.A., and

they didn't have an alcohol

and substance abuse treatment program.

And I lobbied for both.

And two volunteers who had combined

over 60 years of sobriety

began coming once a week

to that prison to bring meetings to us.

- What was that like, trying

to stay sober in prison?

- Prison is awful.

Some people have tools to

survive; some people don't.

So being in prison was

extremely challenging.

But gaining access to A.A.,

I was able to get a benefit

of having A.A. in prison

with these volunteers

that, again, you know,

went to great lengths to be there,

to volunteer to drive in.

People think that when you're in prison,

you don't have access

to alcohol and drugs,

but that's not true.

In prison, there's lots of supply of drugs

and alcohol if you really want it.

- So how did you get help?

- With A.A. there and having

these volunteers coming in

and hearing their stories

and having them relate

to us their journey,

their way of overcoming

their own addiction,

and sharing with them our

stories and our struggles,

I think really helped us tremendously.

I also availed myself of the

program where you can write

and request having a pen pal through A.A.,

- You mean the Corrections

Correspondence program?

- Absolutely, yes.

So, I would write letters to this person,

and they would write back to me

about once every couple months.

And that was very helpful as well.

And that was through A.A.

The relationship was

extremely helpful to me

because I built a connection to people.

And by having that Fellowship

in that meeting in prison,

it was almost like for a little bit

each time we had that

meeting, not being in prison.

And so it made it actually easier overall.

It felt a little bit more human again.

It felt like we were a little

bit freer in some ways.

(gentle contemplative music)

One of the things that people

in my situation are faced with

are these parole hearings

where you're judged over and over again

based on something that you cannot change.

So one of the things that you can do

to show evidence of your change

is not just in words but in actions.

So going to A.A.,

committing to doing that,

learning from the volunteers,

the communications with

people on the outside,

it shows that you have a

connection to the community.

And I think that that all helps you

to show to the parole

board that you deserve

a fair chance at success in the

community outside of prison.

It also laid the groundwork

when I got out of prison

for me to be a success

out in the community

when I returned home.

- So what was it like

when you returned home?

- So when I was released from prison,

I had lost all my money.

I had a property bag that

I was carrying around,

and I didn't have a stable place to live

for quite some time.

But what I did have was A.A.

I met other people in the program

who gave me hope, you know?

I completed the 12 steps,

and I actually apologized

to the person that I hurt

drinking and driving in person.

I was able to apologize to him

and make amends to him in person,

which was a very powerful experience,

only because, I think, of A.A.

and my sober way of living.

I was told by my sponsor when I got home

that I should basically

say yes to everything,

within reason, but everything within A.A.

So anytime someone asked me,

even if I thought initially

it was at a bad time,

I found ways to schedule around it

and to speak about my story.

And I started speaking on

DWI victim impact panels

at hospitals and schools

and rehab facilities,

co-chairing meetings.

Set up before and after.

Put away chairs, man, you know?

- What would you say to anyone listening

who's struggled with drinking

that's now in jail or prison?

- You are not alone.

You are not alone.

There are people in A.A.,

people who are sober,

that will connect with you.

And you may need to reach out to them,

but I would highly encourage doing that.

I'd highly encourage going

to A.A. meetings in prison.

It's a fantastic way to set yourself up

for greater success

when you come back home.

I would encourage people that are in A.A.

to think about bringing

meetings to prisons

or jails where they can, if

that's a possibility for them.

If not, to volunteer with GSO

to be people that can be reached

out to in a confidential,

anonymous kind of way.

And also contributing funds

where it helps to spread literature

and send literature to people in prison.

People in prison are people.

Let's not judge people based solely on

the very worst thing that

they've ever done in life.

Just like you are not the worst thing

that you've done in life.

And so I believe that if

we show love and compassion

and support and connection with A.A.,

I think it could be a

huge benefit to people.

And to people on the outside,

based on my own experience.

I think being of service

is a way to get you

outside of your own head,

is a way for you to live a better life,

and this new way of living is really one

where you can connect with people,

and that's really what

it's all about I think.

(light mid-tempo rock music)

- We hope you enjoyed this week's episode;

be sure to subscribe so

you can keep coming back.

- In this podcast, we respect

the anonymity of A.A. members.

Last names are shared only

for those who are not in A.A.

Thank you for listening

to "Our Primary Purpose,"

a podcast produced by the

General Service Office

on behalf of the Fellowship

of Alcoholics Anonymous

in the U.S. and Canada.