Good morning, Thomas.
It's great to have you
on the podcast today.
Hi.
Yeah.
If memory serves, I think we first met
back at the Health
Optimization Summit in around 2023.
I think you were there
with Omnossa at the time.
Anyway, it's been a minute and here we
are in 2025 to talk about
your latest venture, VTX.
Before we dive into that particular
conversation though, would you mind just
introducing yourself
to the audience for us?
I know you have a fascinating history
when it comes to science, to health, to
exercise physiology, and I think it would
be great to get that background again.
Yeah, sure.
Quick background, I will try
to keep the story very short.
But I like to say that
I'm a failed athlete.
When I was 16, I was a
French champion of swimming,
believe it or not.
This is where it all started for me
because I was training very intensively
as you would do every day, every single
day for two hours, holidays for me as a
young 16 years old was twice a
day in the pool for two hours.
Everything was fine until
I started to change pool.
Went for the local Olympic
pool, like change the club.
One thing has changed there, which was
the proximity of a bakery.
The result of this is obviously when
you're a 16 years old male,
growing very fast, or when you're like
busting testosterone, training like
crazy, you just eat all the time.
I remember going out of the training
sessions and just I had my, in my
backpack, the
literally kilo pot of Nutella.
I was passing by this bakery
and I had this old baguette.
I was opening, I had a knife as well,
like old school opening the whole thing,
putting half of it and just eating this
on the way back home.
That was just literally two
hours maybe before dinner.
I was still ready for dinner.
Fifteen hundred calories.
The amount of calories I
was burning was just crazy.
You have to replenish, but obviously I
learned very quickly the hard way, but I
was replenished the wrong way.
And I've learned this by literally
crashing the day after I was in school,
falling asleep and going to see the
doctors and like, "Oh,
you're all the training."
I was like, "Whoa, what was the case?"
And I didn't change my training regimen.
I just changed the pool.
I wasn't changing anything.
So anyway, this is where I started to
look into what could
be the real issue here.
And I was interested in nutrition and I
fell into probably one of the
first men's health at the time.
And we're talking
about early 2000s, right?
And it was about nutrition for athletes.
And I was shocked, but actually eating
eggs and salmon in the
morning was a good idea.
And my cereal's box that was saying
athletes was actually rubbish, right?
And maybe the old baguette with half a
pot of Nutella was
not a good idea either.
And when I changed this really quickly,
things changed for me.
And I got fascinated by nutrition and
really trying to optimize
my performance, my health.
You know, so yeah, it opens a lot of new
avenue for me to explore.
And I felt it fascinating, especially
since then, genetically speaking, I
wasn't going to be the top swimmer
because I'm not two meters.
I'm 180 and actually
it's short for a swimmer.
And yeah, past 17, I was out, right?
When everybody started growing and
reached those size, I was just very,
very, those height, I was
just out for the competition.
So I decided to stop and as a fair
athlete went into sport science.
Yeah, sure.
Well, I'm far back.
So you're doing pretty well by my steps.
Yeah, anyway, so cutting
down, so we're short from there.
I, as I said, sport science, then arrived
in London and started coaching.
And I'm obviously going to go on step
here, but coaching athletes.
And what I really enjoy doing was trying
to get as personalized as possible before
personalized personalization was a thing.
And again, looking at what was available,
I fell into some research
paper about nutrigenomics.
And at the time it
was in South Africa lab
that we're looking at certain genes, like
the famous old ones like FTO, you know,
which basically
taught me that, wow, we can actually have
a very personalized approach to caution
and to potentially educating someone
about their own genetic
to be able then to, you know, have a
tailored plan for
performance, recovery, training.
So it was all very exciting.
Was that Tim Noakes's lab by any chance?
DNA analysis, it was at the time.
Oh, yes.
I remember that company.
Accuray Accuray up in South Africa.
Exactly.
And I bothered them a lot because I was a
coach at the time and, you know, I had no
medical background and I was like
harassing them to learn and do a course,
which we did.
So the first course they made, and I
think I was one of the first students,
they became nutrigenomic certified
and I started implementing this in London
for all the athletes.
And the test was still
quite expensive at the time.
Right.
And we're looking at a few SNPs.
So looking at maybe, you know, 20, 20
SNPs maximum, probably even less.
But then quickly start to try to improve
all of this and also, especially in the
recommendation aspect, not just the
hardcore sort of gene and gene variation
without explanation.
So I was helping in putting this together
and again, getting the whole story short,
starting with first company.
And I will make this very short because I
decided to leave this company because,
as you probably know, back in the day,
DNA was the wild west.
And when there's a
wild west, there's cowboy.
And there is definitely a lot of actors,
let's say, that wanted to sell a product
without really a continuity.
And it worked for them, but
it's not what I wanted to do.
And so I exited all this
and my vision was really to
educate people on how to
learn, explore their gene.
So I sort of stepped back and wrote a
book which was cracking
your health code in 2014.
And it's about that.
It's about an invitation to explore your
genes and learn about
your different variation.
And what can you do about it?
So really,
nutrigenomic connection, right?
So how can we adapt, change with many
habits, your behavior
based on your genetic?
But also while doing this, realizing that
it's definitely not the whole story.
And this is where we created GenSmart,
which was my first platform
where we were uploading 23 enemy data.
And at the time it was quite funny
because I was just going
towards 23 enemy accounts.
Hashtag 23 enemy Instagrams, like, hey,
you can upload your data to
GenSmart and find out more.
More than learning that you are the
cousin of Marie Antoinette or whatever.
And give you actually insight already in
terms of what are your predisposition?
What can you learn about it?
And so, yeah, maybe your data
classification pathways are not optimal.
So what can you do as many goals and
tasks to implement in your daily life to
potentially help you do better?
But again, GenSmart was amazing, I think,
at the time because
we're talking about 2016.
It was one of the first.
But then I really wanted to connect the
dots with functional testing.
So functional medicine approach with the
hormone test, the
microbiome, blood markers.
To really try to have a whole picture
here of your risk factors, the where you
are now in your journey
based on the biomarkers.
And also
understanding your context, right?
So the symptoms.
And this is what we have been doing with
HONOS and first with Imperial College,
trying to develop this
interconnectivity between the dots.
And again, because data and
isolation are just points, right?
But when you start connecting the dots
together, you can see pattern, you can
you can understand the story.
And it makes a great difference.
And this is where we created HONOS, which
looks at things by order of priority and
looked at the combination of genetic
symptom assessment and
all functional testing.
And by doing so, we really
saw an uptake of practitioner.
But those two camps, those practitioners
looking at this and saying, oh, well,
it's you know, it's not good because it's
fancy colors and everything.
And then others that starting to
understand that actually very subsistence
to it and can use it as a tool to improve
my practice, because I can reach a higher
level of network information that I
couldn't do on my own
because I'm just a hormone expert.
I'm not necessarily a microbiome expert.
And I'm not so good at reading blood
markers, for example.
And definitely not trained as a
nutritional practitioner.
So this is what we have done.
And we had within less than six months of
maybe a thousand
practitioners using our platform.
And this is where we took a leap of faith
to acquire Regeneris Labs,
which is the UK
leading company for testing.
Right.
So we managed forces and this is what
created now a CRM that's really support
practitioner to have an efficient
practice because you can order a test.
You can have all your
patients in one place.
The results.
Everything is in one place.
And that's what I'm very proud of.
What we have achieved here is to create a
very much seamless experience from
different labs to the end user, which is
the practitioner here for efficiency.
Right.
So, yeah, that's the whole journey.
Yeah, no, no, it is.
It's an amazing journey.
And I can vouch for the
Ominous platform personally.
I think it's incredible.
The fact that you can, as you said
yourself, just bring in these different
types of data from various different
types of functional lab testing and then
just be able to look at it as a whole.
And just the algorithm at play that just
makes it so accessible, not only to
people who are practitioners, but also to
people like myself who maybe got more of
an academic background
and this sort of stuff.
But it just brings it all together.
It really does.
And it makes the data actionable.
That's always my mission.
Still is to make things accessible for
everyone, but also effective to anyone.
Right.
In a sense of getting the
insight for all those data.
But what does it mean in terms of
mechanism of process of turning this into
real time action and adjustments for
preventive prevention, for example?
Yeah.
And as you alluded to earlier, I think it
really sort of supports physicians as
well, because then they can sort of they
can work through the biochemistry.
They can work through the endocrinology.
They can work through the the gut stuff
and just it's all provided there and they
get this feedback on a patient and they
can ultimately provide
better care as a result.
And there's also the learning hub.
Right.
So if you are a practitioner, not
necessarily within the platform, you have
all those amazing practitioners.
You have workshops, you have video
training, you have
courses you can you can do.
So, yeah, it's a great platform.
So very proud of that.
No, I love the one that Dean St.
Mark did a while ago on.
He's done two or three now,
but those were incredible.
Anyway, Thomas, that's that's that's
quite the story and it's quite the jump
as well, sort of going from the sort of
background and sort of sports science and
I suppose exercise physiology all the way
into the sort of tech startup world.
Yeah,
I think a great place to sort of continue
this conversation would be actually let's
backtrack slightly and
talk about mutual genomics.
And again, it's a passion of yours and
evidently something you're
well you're well learned in.
Now, the way I understand it, it's basic,
of course, it's a relationship between
what we eat, our genes, and I suppose
fundamentally our health.
Of course, there's a
lot more to it than that.
But would you mind breaking down this
concept for us and maybe how you some
examples of how you
utilize the it earlier on with.
With the athletes that you were training,
I think it would be quite interesting to
delve into some of those that you answer.
I think you you made it very clear and
trying to make it a complex simple
because the tradition
makes me a bit complex.
But for the audience here, which I'm sure
is a very educated audience, but the
traditional mix is really the interaction
between the food, your
lifestyle, your environment, right?
And your gene and how they express.
So the idea is you have a certain set of
genes and your bio individuality, right?
So my genotype will be different venues.
And based on this, we obviously have
different way of
expressing those genotypes.
And I'll give you examples based on the
story from what I have, for example, the
reason why I was crashing, for example,
was an insulin sensitivity issue.
Many years later, I tested for the genes,
but I realized that all my insulin
sensitivity genes
were sort of high impact.
Right.
So the PPA-RG genes, for example, which
has to do with insulin regulation.
It regulates all the fat cell development
and glucose metabolism and more really.
But what I had this variance, right?
I had my insulin resistance was
definitely not there.
So when I got this baguette and the
Nutella, I'm down to crash.
And the long term of doing this also
could have been well, being an athlete
was a bit different.
But let's say if I was sedentary, that is
high risk of type 2 diabetes.
Right.
So they've long term type 2 diabetes.
I am a high risk of type 2 diabetes.
And that's why in my lifestyle, I have
implemented things
like intermittent fasting.
All the little tools that I can use to
regulate my glucose
are still very important.
If I were again, still acting like a
French ninja, not understanding
nutrition, I would crash.
Right.
So it's very important for
me to have protein when I eat.
And if I don't fast, you
know, break my fast with protein,
it is almost things are very important.
And there's many, many different genes
and variation you can have.
So the most known, for example, is maybe
caffeine metabolism.
Right.
So this gene CYP-OMA2, which is your
short, I mean, fast
metabolism or slow metabolism.
So that explains some people with just
after one espresso,
which is habitory, right.
And over time, all the genes to do with
again, I have all this sassy genes as
well, where like MC4 are, I call it the
Deft-Bufet syndrome.
Because you put in front of me a Bufet
and if I'm hungry and if I'm tired, I'm
just wired to go and
eat without stopping.
Right.
I don't have this switch off button.
So all those things, these things that
I've learned and have the habits, develop
the habits to like mindful eating and
making sure I have enough protein, making
sure, you know, to switch off those genes
to express a bit too much.
Right.
So and then you can go into
health-related issue, cardiovascular
detoxification pathways like GST-M1,
which I think is a fine
living in London, very toxic city,
having all those detoxification pathways,
you know, like phase one and
phase two, not being optimal.
I do need to support my detoxification
pathways on an ongoing basis.
I would fall asleep literally as soon as
I arrive in the tube because it's so
toxic with all different things.
Right.
So implementing, well, a lot of training,
supporting my with certain supplements,
but also doing things like making sure I
eat food that is not, you know, full of
pesticides, the clean 15 and all those
different things and also making sure
that I now and then have sonars.
All of these are things
that are very important for me.
Yeah, that's fascinating.
And it's interesting to see, just going
back to the sporting analogy for a
moment, how and I'm sure you still follow
endurance sports to some extent, but just
how this genetic data has almost
driven the industry in terms of how
athletes are feeling and eating.
I remember I don't know if you follow
cycling at all, but when Chris Froome,
who won the Tour de France, I think three
or four years in a row, was really
performing well before he had a crash at
the Crète d'Ephane.
He was following a very
high fat, low carb diet.
And at the time it was
assumed that that was optimal.
And nowadays it's interesting that you
see these same athletes and what they're
now doing is running a very low quality.
That is very nice actually with cyclists.
The difference from a person to another
can be amazing, especially in terms of
recovery, performance.
Let's say I'm a sprinter, right?
I'm designed to be, I've got this
ACTN-free fast-twitch metabolism.
You make me swim a thousand kilometres,
people take me far away, but a hundred
metres was the best, right?
Back in the days.
It's just harm design, right?
But also the recovery.
So cyclists, for example,
had a cyclist who had very slow recovery
and was suffering
from it, always in pain.
And there's a gene called SOD2, which has
to do with antioxidant.
And obviously when you train that much,
you create a lot of oxidative stress.
And when we started juicing and getting
as many as antioxidant for supplements
and food, it was a game
changer for this person.
The recovery was much faster,
the pain almost disappeared.
And that's just because you are adapting
to what you are designed for, right?
So I think Nutriusion Mixer definitely
has its value in not only for
performance, but for health as well,
which is what I'm focusing on now.
Yeah, definitely.
And I think the other sort of nugget of
wisdom in there is that you can also
utilise genetics and eugenomics to almost
identify what you would
do well in within a sport.
Just going back to cycling, for example,
as you alluded to earlier, if you are
ACTN, if you're sort of version of the
ACTN 3 gene, if you're an RR phenotype,
you're obviously going to be far more
effective at sprinting than
you would say at climbing.
So I think when you look at it through
that lens too, it can really help you to
sort of identify maybe where in your
sport or you would expel or what sort of
sport you would
expel, not expel, as well.
So there's a lot of gene, for example,
like the O2 Max and all those things.
That makes quite a difference, right?
So if you are a Nutri
marathon runner, for example,
and if you do all those different genes
to do with like performance,
ultra long performance,
they do make a big difference.
However, one thing I would say here for
all the listeners is if you're an
athlete, yes, you want to look at that,
but you also, even athletes actually will
benefit from any disciplines and the
variation as a whole is
very important actually.
And you will find that most top athletes,
say Michael Jordan was also good at
golfing, right, or other things, because
baseball, right, it's a different set of
skills that makes you
an athlete, I would say.
So it's not just down to genetics, but
genetics definitely give you a
predisposition to certain things.
Yeah.
I'm a chemist again.
My physiology is well behind me, but is
that the said principle of the specific
adaptation to impose demands?
Would that be correct?
The idea that your performance can
improve if you drive
that variation in it?
Yeah.
So yeah, of course, I think it's just
like anything, right?
So the more you do it.
So right now, I'm very focused on on my
VO2 max and all those
different things as a marker.
And I'm really doing half
protocol in the way I train.
For example, I will do like, you know,
I can't remember the name of this
protocol, but I think it's
something to do with Norway.
It's basically, you know, you run 800
meters and then you top again for two
minutes and do it again.
You're actually a lot more likely to
develop your VO2 max than just
going for very long distance.
So there's many protocols like this that
you can implement based on
what you want to achieve.
What is your goal?
And this is a more true if you know your
genetics, you know where you are now, you
know how you react with those biometrics
and you can track and progress with where
you can adapt and make it dynamic.
And I think this is how any
athletes should do it now.
And most of them do anyway.
But we're still learning, but it's
exciting that now you can track, you can
see what you are made of and you can see
where your weaknesses
are, what you can prove.
So, you know, already back in the day,
right, if someone had certain athletes,
like, I don't know, rugby players I was
coaching, if they had a lot of issues
with tendon injury, collagen genes,
COL5-1 and all those different genes.
Well, we would supplement for sure and
we'll make sure the recovery is on top.
Also in terms of the conditioning, the
training would be a lot about
conditioning was tendon and
preventing those injuries.
Whereas, but someone who never had any
injury and didn't have any of those
genes, we will focus on other things
where we were showing the weakness.
So it's very interesting to see that in a
team, there's different way
of training an individual,
because none of them are average, right?
So, but they shouldn't
have the same training.
They should have the same training for
sure as a team, but individually, it
should be different.
Yeah.
Thomas, I think we could probably spend
all day just talking
about genes and DART.
If I think we should probably,
maybe, and that's my fault, I apologize,
I'm the king of tangents, we should
probably go back to talk about
the topic of today's conversation, which
is your latest venture, VTX.
Now, you're kind enough to send me a
white paper in
preparation for this podcast.
And it was quite the monster, to be fair,
there was a lot there.
My main takeaway for your vision for VTX
is that you're aiming to sort of create,
I suppose, a platform driven by a
framework, or maybe an operating system
is a better term, which I believe you've
turned the smart health
ecosystem or SHE or she.
The idea is to use AI to help move
medicine away from sort of a reactor
model, i.e. one that deals with health
issues as they arrive to one that is more
preventative and I
suppose regenerative in nature.
Now, chances are, I know I probably
butchered that to some extent, but I hope
that I got the gist of it.
Would you mind elaborating on this idea
of VTX and what drove
you to develop the project?
Well, what drove me to this project?
I mean, I've been in the industry for
over 20 years now, and it's always the
same problem, right?
Trying to fix the system that...
Well, the problem is that we have a 21st
century disease burden, but we still have
a 21st century system to deal with it.
And what I mean by that is if you look at
the healthcare system as it is now, and
when I'm saying all this, by the way,
it's not pointing the finger and saying,
"Oh, this is very bad," especially not
other people who work in that system
because they're amazing people that save
life on a daily basis, right?
But this is exactly it.
They save life on a daily basis because
it's an acute care system.
However, if you want to deal with the
problem of today, which are a massive
burden for individuals,
communities, governments,
whether it's economical, social burden,
it's diseases that are multi-factorials
that develop over decades, if not more,
and that we cannot treat as a one-cause
effect sort of scenario, which we do with
the healthcare system.
So if you go with anxiety, chronic
anxiety, let's say, and see the
healthcare system, they will treat you
with one single solution,
which is medication, right?
But it's not the source of the problem.
What is the source of the problem?
And this is where we want to find out
because we want to eradicate the issue
here before it becomes a bigger problem.
And yeah, I think it comes from there.
It's like, how can we create a system
that is about predictive prevention that
is in real time, but that is very much
personalized because it's a reality.
The healthcare system, as it is now, is
an average treat people as average, but
we are not average people.
We're all very different and we need to
have this very hyper-personalized
approach if we want to fix things.
And we also need a system that actually
includes the person in the middle,
because Reiner is very fragmented, is
very siloed, and you only go there when
you break down, and in between,
you're on your own, right?
And you don't know how to
participate in your health.
And with this sort of context, you're
almost like, "Oh, I don't know what to do
because I'm not a doctor."
But actually, when it
comes to prevention,
the fundamentals are lifestyle, diet,
environment, because this is what are the
issues of today to
develop the disease of today.
Yes, you cannot do brain
surgery, but that's acute care.
You don't need that, right?
Well, I hope we don't need that.
And this is where the idea of VITAX came,
is to create a system of our time where
with all the data we collect based on
someone's goals, how can we make
something that is real-time and give
nudges for you to adjust in real time and
put you back in this road of recovery or
actually de-aging pretty much, right?
Because we know that all those diseases
as well are aging-related diseases.
So how we can do all this is about making
you at the center of it.
And it has to be behavioral-centric.
But based on your data,
that is the idea of the platform.
And this is what we're doing now.
And then it's to really try to develop a
model where later, and I think we
shouldn't underestimate how things are
progressing very fast nowadays,
where we want to remove
people from their dashboard, right?
Or things like that.
Go outside.
And one of the real pillar
of longevity is communities.
Go outside and share.
So try to make things ambient in the
sense that you are being monitored if
things are going wrong and you're being
nudged only for adjustment.
And everything works
as an orchestra for you.
And that is the idea, is to create an
ecosystem where you have an end-to-end
system that works for
you in the background.
And you're being told, "Okay, you've done
very well because this
is your top priority.
This is your protocol.
And you've been doing
this for three weeks.
And you have, let's say for me, you have
reduced your insulin resistance by 30%
and decreased your chances of type 2
diabetes by 50% and
looking at numbers, right?
But that means also that your biological
age has reduced of five years in the last
three months, right?
And this is powerful because that is
something that is tangible,
that is prioritized, and that's real-time
predictive prevention.
Now, it's incredibly powerful information
to have because I also think it creates a
lot of accountability for
the individual in question too.
If you, it's, I mean, I suppose the
closest thing that we have today is maybe
a diabetic on an insulin pump or who has
a CGM or someone who is regularly
watching their weight.
But if you don't have that sort of
immediate feedback, you're not going to
be able to course correct, are you?
So I think from that perspective alone,
this sort of technology is amazing.
Yeah.
And also, do you actually
need this feedback, right?
Is that for you?
And this can be also monitored by a
practitioner, right?
So if things are clinical, it should
always involve a practitioner anyway.
Yeah.
That's a question I have
for you a little later on.
Thomas, I'd love to dive a little deeper
if that's okay into the SHG, the SHG
framework, if that's okay.
Now, from what I remember, it's sort of
compromised, not compromised, are four
pillars, mainly predictive, proactive,
personalized, and participatory.
Now, I know you sort of covered that to
some extent already, but would you just
mind running through each of these in a
little more detail and then, yeah, maybe
we could bring them all
together for the audience.
Yeah.
So the SHG is just a name in a smart
paper, but it's for a
small health ecosystem.
And the pillar really predictive is about
using biomarker and AI to identify risks
before symptom appear, right?
As simple as that.
It's a bit like, you know, if you know,
and I'll give you a concrete example,
you're in London, and by
your door, you have an umbrella.
If you look at the weather forecast, and
it's 20% chances of rain, maybe not going
to take that umbrella.
If you have 50% of rain,
you might take the umbrella.
If it's 80% of rain or more, you're going
to take the umbrella and the rain cold.
This is how we should
approach our health, I think.
And this is what is right
now my most important priority.
So what is my priority for me to not age
quicker than my chronological age and
actually decrease that, right?
So decrease my pace of aging, let's say,
by addressing one of my most important,
you know, things that I need to do.
So it can be everything.
Let's take again, insulin
sensitivity, inflammation.
Those are very important
things, stress management, right?
Was all very common.
And what can I do right now to prevent
this to happen with those biomarkers and
my symptoms, and potentially even, you
know, if you can applaud those things or
those data, a lot of people
are wearing wearables nowadays.
And how can you make it proactive, right?
So, proactive in a sense that the system
help you, guide you on your journey by
giving you little nudges.
You know, if you're very stressed and
you're low in magnesium and your cortisol
is very high, hey, don't forget your
magnesium tonight, or, you know, what
about doing a little two minute breathing
exercise in the middle of the day, right?
Because your cortisol is
spiking or your HRT is high, right?
So that's low, sorry.
So your stress response is very high, so
this is the sort of things
that will keep you in check.
And the more you do those things, it's
also about creating this behavior of
self-awareness and actually building
habits that are relevant to you.
And what I like about AI is we'll learn
from you and you will
learn from each other.
And you can, when you talk about AI,
we're not choosing chatty-pity, by the
way, it's our own system.
My co-founder, Christian Schwartz, can
look it up on LinkedIn,
is a top guy when it comes to AI.
And, I mean, I've learned so much the
last six months, which is crazy.
But we're talking about AI machine
learning, having our own system with
rules and we keep on learning about you.
And then personalized in a sense that
based on all of those data,
based on what you want to do,
what can you do as a protocol based on
your preferences, on
your goals, your lifestyle?
How can we actually make this as
frictionless as possible for you?
I like the idea of helping you, guiding
you and trying to make it as less
friction as possible because
we want to simplify your life.
We don't want to give you another thing
to do, another thing to do.
But when it's necessary to invite you
into doing things and hopefully to do
this within a community and help you to
achieve those goals.
And this is where participatory comes
from, is about you being in charge.
You probably heard a lot about
being your CEO of your health.
So it's a bit this way.
It's like you can set your own goal.
I mean, I have goals about,
I want to limit my gray hair.
But there's actually, when you're doing
that, there's markers, we know, there's
genetic, there's certain supplementation.
So, okay, this is your goal.
Fine.
Your priority is this and this.
This is what we want you to do.
But if you want to do
that on top, you can do that.
And this is what you can do for it and
see the improvements of the time.
So yeah, this is the idea
really of these four pillars.
And by doing this, we are most
importantly, reversing
the trend from a reactive,
a little too late model to a proactive
take things early on, learn, implement,
and make the changes that counts to
actually have a big impact in the long
term, in both social impact, individual
impact, and the economy even, because if
we don't change anything now, it's a 47
trillion dollar debt that
we have with the healthcare.
It's collapsing everywhere.
It's not sustainable.
We have to do something.
And unfortunately, why now is still not
the top emergency on
most government agenda.
It has to start with us.
If it starts with us,
legislation will follow.
Oh, definitely.
And I think that, I still think that if
you, if anyone ultimately wanted to
change the world and they sort of came to
sort of global power, I think the one
thing that would change the world faster
than anything else would be to focus on
healthcare and then focus on people being
sound metabolic health.
Because when you improve health, you
improve psychological outcomes, you
improve an individual's ability to create
wealth, to improve their financial state.
And it just has that trickle down effect.
But the moment you're sort of stuck in
this state of ill health as an
individual, as a society, everything else
just collapses
subsequently and as a result of that.
So I think, yeah, I can only praise you
that this project is incredible and I
really look forward to seeing it develop.
Thomas, I'd love to go take another step
back if that's okay and chat about the
e-code, the sort of system again from
maybe from a product or from
a sort of a wearable hardware
side of things.
Now, I imagine there'll be some buy-in in
terms of hardware that's needed.
Things like your wearables,
your devices, things like that.
Now, a few years ago, I don't, I wouldn't
have foreseen this to be an issue because
you bought something like an auto ring or
your Woot band and that was it.
And you just used it and you
got the data that you needed.
Now, everything is on
a subscription model.
So you're not necessarily only just
buying the product, you're obviously
having to pay for its use monthly.
Obviously, from a business standpoint,
from an individual, for individual
companies, that makes a lot of sense.
That's a great way of creating recurrent
revenue for your brand.
But obviously, for the average
individuals, those bills
all are going to add up.
What do you feel about this idea in
general within the health space?
And obviously, that's a speculative.
And maybe to add to
that, what do you think,
again, speculatively is a good sort of
baseline point of admission to in terms
of wearable tech that individuals should
be looking to utilize or acquire when
trying to make the most
of a platform like VTX?
Yeah, I mean, you can go from the basic
to the specialized, right?
So obviously, if you just counting steps,
you know, it might not be enough for
certain goals you may have.
However, if you're getting started,
and metabolic health is a top priority,
that's already quite valuable, right?
Because that's very easy.
And that's something, okay, I need to do
those 10,000 steps a day.
And then on top of the nutrition and
rubber, and that's already making a
massive change enough to potentially
prevent things, right?
Now, if you want to be specialized, and
you go very targeted, and you're like a
biohacker, and yeah, you want to have
more data, the more data is to debate up
to get a clearer, more defined, more
hyper personalized picture.
But let's do thing here.
The first thing is,
whatever data you have, you may have, if
you carry a phone like this,
you already have Apple Health.
And a lot already is
being tracked, right?
And what are the like the idea of is to
create universal upload of data.
So something for sure, we are doing on
this platform is allowing people to
upload their data for free, whatever data
they have, and to get
already some insights,
preferences, goals, and everything sort
of already will make
sense to for an individual.
Now,
the second thing is, the amazing thing
about AI and machine learning, and the
more it develops, the
better it becomes at predicting,
and making assumptions based on your
lifestyle, your diet, your environment.
So what something that AI is amazing at
is that looking at all those data,
and understanding which one are relevant
based on your goals, your
preferences, your symptoms.
And then suddenly, you
don't have 100 things to track.
So then maybe we can recommend you this
is the best thing for you to track.
You don't have to have 20 devices, right?
It can just be one for now.
And then once you have learned the
habits, maybe yes, now, because you have
changed this, and you have lost a lot of
weight, and you love training,
and you want to increase your value to
max, because you got hooked
by the whole thing of training.
Yeah, get to boot back, why not?
This, there's another thing, actually.
But what about if all of those data,
which by the way, something that is very
close to my heart is data ownership, full
data ownership means
your data remain your data.
And you should be able to opt in or opt
out to share those data.
But let's say you're opting to share
those data, those data have value.
And the value should be going back to
you, not to, and this is why let's not
talk about the two, three and me.
But this model didn't work probably
because basically take data off someone
and you make money out of it.
This is the old school way of doing it.
And I think we need to have a lot more
sustainable approach where you have your
own data, it's your
health data, you own them.
And if you wish to share them,
you should be rewarded for it.
And maybe you should be rewarded by
discounts or even freebies of this type
of wearables and have the one that you
need and you want based on your goal,
your preferences, and
also your health symptoms.
So there is ways of doing it.
I'm not saying we're doing it now,
maybe.
But it's important to look at things
first of how, where the trends are going,
and what can we do with what we have now
to make those things
a lot more accessible.
Yeah, definitely.
I'm still very analog.
I find that for most people and the
clients that I do work with things like,
for me, I think a CGM, maybe a digital
BEP cuff, and then occasionally tracking
HRV are probably the tools in an analog
capacity, of course, that you can sort of
glean the most information from, purely
from just a metabolic health standpoint.
And I think those are, for me, would
probably be if somebody really wants to
start investigating their health beyond
the sort of the basics or the core key
blood work, those are
great tools to start off with.
Thomas, I'd love to get back to this
idea, sort of sovereignty and data
ownership again, and all of that.
It was something I was going to ask you
later on, but I think this is a great
time to discuss the point.
Now, until recently, sort of companies
owning my data never actually bothered me
because I didn't actually sort of see it
as being a major issue.
Yeah, I've got my own 23andMe data, and
I've had 10 emails telling me that
somebody else has stolen it at
least once every other month.
And I thought, okay, so what?
Somebody knows my genetics.
But I've since sort of started to learn
and wake up to the fact, and maybe just
grow up and be a little less naive, that
there is really an issue with companies
owning your data, and they can start to
sort of impact the way that you're
insured, for example, healthcare, etc.
Would you be able to sort of expand upon
that and why, as a society, we should
actually be so protective of our data,
especially our health data?
I think this
is your health data.
Again, if we can secure them in a
encrypted way, let's say, for you,
and nobody has access to them, only if
you want to share them, right?
I think it should be the way forward.
And actually, this should
be supported by legislation.
There's different reasons.
Obviously, we don't want to go into the
utopian version of you have your DNA data
leaked in someday, in a far, far utopian
future, someone will make a
personalized bio weapon for you.
But at least looking at your data, and
yes, having an insurance, like, you've
got high risks of cancer, let's say,
because of this gene.
First thing is false, like in the sense
that you can have a high risk variant of
something, let's say, apogee form, which
is related to Alzheimer, but it doesn't
necessarily mean you will
develop the disease, right?
It's the same with BRCA1 and BRCA2.
Actually,
breast cancer is not the gene, it's your
lifestyle, your diet, your environment,
the epigenetics that will amplify the
expression of that gene.
So yes, if you have this gene and you
drink every day, and you're stressed, and
you're very low in vitamin
D, that would be a problem.
But if you do all the right things, it
won't be a problem at all.
So that's the first thing is to make sure
that there is also accuracy in how those
institutions are thinking.
And the second thing is, basically not
have access to those
data without your content.
But actually, if you want to share them,
because you're doing the right thing, you
should rip off the benefits of having a
premium at a discount.
And it's also giving the opportunity to
solve a problem like cohort compiling for
research, for example.
Let's say the platform like
Ondos is over 100,000 users.
And it's interesting to see that you can
potentially, people have their data
there, and it's all secure, and Ondos
will never share data.
But if you were to have a system that
allows you to switch on or switch off
your data access to a research institute,
you could be part of a cohort.
And this is Imperial College, you want to
do a study on this, and your genes is
matching, you are the right
age bracket, blah, blah, blah.
And you could get free testing and plus
potentially be paid.
And for Imperial College, trying to
advance something and cover something
that could help the whole
population, that is beneficial.
So it's not the same angle of trying to
sell a data set to pharma
to make a single drug use.
Let's not go there.
But it's a very different ecosystem here.
And I think this is where we should, the
legislation should look at things and
say, okay, this should be allowed.
And this is how it should be.
And this should not be, right?
Because that's just pure for profits.
So this is my stand on it anyway.
And probably, you know, some investor
would probably not like that.
But I think this is where it's going. 70%
of people now are happy to share the data
for insight, but they're not happy to
share their data if they know they're
going to be used for profit.
And there is a real awakening about this.
And it's normal, I believe.
Yeah, no, I think it is.
It's starting to sort of develop in
society as to why people's data is not
only important, but it's a value to them.
It's not to just binary information on
the internet that someone is just going
to utilize to sort of take email address
and sort of send you an offer for the
latest, I don't know, TV ad, whatever.
It is definitely a value.
Thomas, I'd love to sort of pick your
brains about what I think about from time
to time, which is the
Wi-Fi and EMF piece.
Now, obviously, when we start to talk
about AI and technology, that's going to
start to sort of come to
the forefront a bit more.
Now, I'm not a physicist.
As I mentioned earlier, I'm a chemist.
I understand what these non-native
signals can do to the
body to some extent anyway.
And I do believe that where there's
smoke, there's fire.
Now, how much things like Wi-Fi are
actually detrimental to human
physiology is up for debate.
However,
and they're definitely
hard to get away from.
For everybody's best efforts, I mean, you
have 5G everywhere now,
whether that's an issue or not.
You have obviously Wi-Fi broadband and
now Elon Musk's
Starlink satellite's going up.
So we're constantly surrounded by that
sort of Wi-Fi exposure.
What do you think of this in terms of, I
suppose, mixing healthcare, AI together?
Do you think this is broadly speaking an
issue, or do you feel sort of this
electromagnetic hypersensitivity piece is
a bit blown out of proportion?
Well, blown out of proportion, it depends
where you stand on it.
But there is definitely an impact, right?
It's for sure.
And we are electric currents after all.
So it definitely has an impact on us.
I would definitely not leave somewhere
where there is those 5G antenna.
And we know we studied.
It's as many papers, it's various impact
on your health, on your
sleep, on a lot of things.
So I guess, what is the solution there?
And I don't have the solution, but I
would definitely think that with the
progress being made and it's things we
need to adapt and to
potentially find solution for.
We are already making biodiesel, why not
one day, sort of making a hub find
solution for sort of
emission free internet, right?
So I don't think it's stupid of thinking
that because, well, things are
progressing very fast.
And there's always some innovation that's
like, wow, blow your mind,
especially, you know, probably in two,
three years time, AI might find a
solution for us, not for us, but from us,
but maybe AI itself.
So maybe I'm not hyper optimistic.
I'm a founder.
So maybe it's a character trait
of being very optimistic on this, but I
hope we will find a solution that because
using AI and as a tool will
definitely improve our life.
And we obviously need
a connection for that.
And yeah, just to see how,
what are the alternatives.
So I'm not an expert on this particular
field, but I'm quite hopeful
that we will find solution.
And at least what we can do now again is
to track the effects on us and to
understand this more.
And it's maybe a first step to understand
it more, to really raise this as not a
hoax, but as actually not a conspiracy
theory, but actually as a fact.
Now that it is a fact, validated as a
fact, what can we do with it?
What is the first step?
Because something that we realize is
we're sort of running out of
conspiracy theory nowadays.
So yeah.
Yeah.
No, thank you for that.
It's great to get your opinion there.
And for anyone who is interested in the
wifi piece, the non-native EMF field
piece, I invite you to listen to the
podcast I did recently with Tristan
Scott, who really is,
he's an electrical engineer.
I'm sure you're familiar with him.
He's helping to run
daylight in future at the moment.
Of interest, I think is the fact that I
don't know if you've heard of LiFi.
They are a web, they're obviously an EMF,
an EMF based protocol that utilizes light
to transmit information
instead of wifi radiation.
But that is, yeah, that was something
that will hopefully
develop as time progresses.
Okay.
So Thomas, another question about VTX.
The way I said it's definitely at the
moment, it's aimed at, well, it is.
It's aimed at helping people to maintain
their health or maybe people with sort of
mild health challenges
reclaim their health.
But I think what I'm interested in seeing
the tech, where I'm interested in seeing
the technology go would be where,
would it be able to help us say issues
like, or do you have any plans to
integrate it into more
sort of acute conditions?
So do your autoimmune illness conditions,
your things like your post viral
fatigues, complex metabolic issues.
Do you have any plans in regard to
getting the technology to that point?
Or is your aim at this
point solely preventative?
Yeah, I mean, this is
part of prevention, right?
And I think is from fatigue, chronic
fatigue to diabetic to early, you know,
early sort of cancer markers, and the
interconnection between those different
things are very important.
So obviously, you don't want to through a
platform tell someone you have an high
risk of developing a cancer.
And this is why having a practitioner in
the loop monitoring is very important.
And I think understanding this sort of
biosignals to catch all the deviation
before this is start of progressing is
definitely a goal, right?
So mitochondrial dysfunction in fatigue
is identified via genomics,
for example, already, right?
And then so you tie up the HRB, right?
And certain nutrient depletion.
And that's already a sort of cocktail
that can really help
with your chronic fatigue.
So what are you deficient on, you know,
you're suboptimal in vitamin D, you're
suboptimal in vitamin B12, B9, B1,
you're, you know, all
those different things.
And you're very stressed.
That's where you start and try to address
all those points, and see the change over
time and see the symptoms over time.
Is it still chronic fatigue now?
Well, actually, no,
I'm feeling much better.
I have a lot, I don't have this
afternoon's stop anymore.
And oh, maybe it's because you're, you
know, your your B vitamins and your
vitamin Ds are back to optimal ranges.
Because that was your protocol in the
last few weeks, right?
And you're less burnout because you're
implementing breath work on an everyday
basis, which only takes you
three minutes by the way, right?
There's very simple things to reduce
cortisol and remove stress,
which is just breath work.
It's just how breath, right?
So it's easy.
And there's many techniques I'm not going
to go through there, but it's easy.
You just,
you know, yeah, it's very easy.
So, yeah, definitely.
I hope you answered your question.
No, it does.
And you sort of, you've brought up an
interesting point about doctors and sort
of the systems working
alongside physicians.
Where do you,
obviously, currently you still see
physicians as being vital
to this picture as a whole.
But in the coming years, as you sort of
get to this point of AGI, and as the
technology was developed, do you think
there will still be a place for
physicians in this picture going forward,
say in the next 10 years?
Definitely, because, well, you have the,
we talked about the acute care system
where you're basically
a firefighter, right?
But I think doctors should see, see
themselves merging instead of like, oh,
you're the picture of health, which is
the answer mostly when you have a
condition, but, you
know, your bloods are normal.
Looking into guiding someone into
improving over time to remove
the source of those problems.
So I see this physician to be guiding
people, users to manage the complexity
while AI handled the routine, but it
needs to obviously be
validated by the practitioner.
So this protocol is relevant because the
AI looked at all of the data, which will
take probably a month to a practitioner
to do the Charlo Com works, if you look
at a lot of data, right?
And this is the, you know, the outcome.
And this is actually very interesting for
the practitioner because it's a summary,
and this is what we should do.
And I think we should accept more and
more to work this way to use with
technology to accept, but actually, yes,
there is, and it will be even more
better, I would say, at
making the right conclusion.
Already now in Rajuloji
and all those different
thing, we, you know,
AI is already better.
So we need to accept this.
That's, you know, and the IQ will be
around 1500 within two years, which we'll
never be able to do.
And it's a way scary, but if we use it as
a tool for better outcomes for the
physician is better.
And then obviously the
emotional touch of guiding, right?
So a physician
will help on, you know, guiding this
through the emotion of
the thing and supporting.
So this compassionate guidance, I would
say, that's not something
in the eye can do, right?
So we need this.
So I think the AI will
handle the what and when,
so to speak, and the doctors will indulge
the why and the how, right?
This is how I said.
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.
And I definitely don't think physicians
are going away anytime soon.
I do think that ultimately, their
positions might change, sort of, as you
alluded to, and then they may be almost
more patient care coordinators maybe
going forward, at least sort
of at a sort of a GP level.
And then obviously, this integration of
AI will really help to just improve
patient health outcomes.
Because I think that's something that the
traditional model really struggles with
and is throttled by is just this lack of
time as you alluded to at the very
beginning of our conversation.
It's not that doctors are
useless or that they don't try it.
They just they are at the mercy of a
system that doesn't actually really
support patient care.
It supports if there's a financial
incentive, ultimately, and you are just
pushed through, you're given your 10
minutes in the doctor's office.
Because the system is designed, the
system is the problem, right?
It's not a doctor, obviously, is the
system is designed for the doctor to be a
responder, not a curator of care, right?
And we want to flip the script here and
to just do that to allow the doctor to
focus on what is best at.
So being human
interpretation, complex decision,
and, you know,
this, again, this
compassionate guidance, right?
And I think it's also a guiding and
helping hand for doctors and
practitioners, because nobody wants to be
under all this paperwork and to be under
the Charler-Cone's work between lab
reports sometimes can
be, you know, very tiring.
And when you realize you're missing some,
you know, important information, but you
have not been given before, and then you
have to redo the whole thing.
It's like, all those
things can be improved.
And that is with the
help of digital AI and tech.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I do appreciate that point.
And I mean, I think it's that's fairly
consistent in any service-based industry.
I mean, my parents are teachers.
I know plenty of doctors and all of them
moan about the amount of
administrative paperwork.
I mean, yeah, administrative work that's
building up is fair.
And people are able to spend, in these
professions, seemingly are able to spend
less time with their patients as they
have to deal with more and more red tape.
So if this sort of infrastructure going
forwards can even offload a lot of that,
I think it would just improve outcomes.
It's, AI will amplify, right?
It will not reflect to
come back to the things.
And in the VxOS,
what we were talking about is helping
about detecting subtle
trends before base scale, okay?
And provide a sort of risk assessment and
suggestions already to the doctor.
And then this is about
automating a health journey.
And having done already a
bit of a triage and reminders,
while the physician will validate,
contextualize those insights.
And I think this is very important.
And make all those clinical decisions on
diagnostic and therapies, because you
don't want to leave that to AI, right?
So yeah, I think it's,
yeah, I see the doctors becoming more of
a relationship-based care sort of thing.
Coaching and patient
education and handling
Yeah, and I'll see this a very
sign-in-bout, sign-in-biotic
relationship, right?
So the AI will help for the precision.
And the doctor again, will bring this
wisdom and the empathy, right?
Yeah, no, I again, I couldn't agree more.
And I think it's just going to streamline
healthcare going forward.
Thomas, I know we're starting to slowly
come up against time.
But I'd love to ask you about the pilot
project that you have VTX.
I think it's based in New York, if I'm
not, if I'm not incorrect.
Can you tell us a little about that?
Excuse me, can you tell
us a little more about it?
Sort of the good, the bad, ugly, what
you've learned and sort of how you sort
of envisage the rollout going forward as
a result of this project?
Well, first, you know,
there's a lot of top secret there,
to a certain extent.
But the, what I can say is, and it comes
back to the viewpoint we've just
highlighted is, it's really important to
have AI and the
practitioners, doctors in the same group,
and putting all of it within a clinic,
which I wouldn't call a clinic.
But let's say a wellness hub for
precision prevention is very powerful.
If you can have an
operating system and try to,
we have, again, we have a very strong
accurate care system in
place, an establishment.
But what about having an establishment
where it's all about predictive
prevention in real time, and looking at
in a city environment,
a smart city, let's say,
the doctor is actually monitoring and
reaching out to someone when things
becoming more or less clinical to stay
below that clinical range and make sure
that we are in the prevention
and real time optimization.
And that is possible
within a clinic environment.
And you can see them
as tower control almost,
where you can have intervention, targeted
intervention in real
time for health utilization.
And another thing, this is really
something that I would
like to achieve there.
That is the first layer.
And the second layer,
which is a bit more top secret,
but what about creating something that
your home is monitoring you?
Because, again, those
things will start to disappear.
And I think with AI, things to like,
those dashboard and
everything will become ambient.
And if your home can track you in the
background as an orchestra, you go to
your bathroom, you do your daily routine,
you do your things, and this data, right?
You're urine, your stool sample, your
microbiome, you already have like, you
know, you can collect
hundreds of biomarkers.
You're going to put
regenerous stuff out of business.
Sorry?
You're going to put
regenerous out of business.
Obviously, I'm part of the founding team.
But it's a reality, things evolve, right?
The only constant is change.
And I think it's where it's going.
But if you have an operating system, but
when you told you with the clinic
structure, and the professional,
a bit like a tower control of planes,
when the red dots, this goes out of path.
Oh, let's reach out to
this client and invite him.
And we already know the reason why this
person goes out of the path, right?
Because of those markers, if it's fixable
by lifestyle, diet and environment, we
can give them nudges, specific protocol
without them coming.
If they need to, if they want to speed up
the process, and maybe your hyperbaric
chamber is going to help them, because
this is post COVID symptoms related,
maybe they need a bit
more oxygen in their blood.
That will be helpful as to that, okay, if
you don't want to do
that, the still those options.
And things are a bit more
clinical, you're really
suboptimal on those things.
Come and do an ID on those things.
Maybe, you know,
that's real time predictive prevention,
and scalable to a level
of, you know, smart cities.
And then you have a model that you can
potentially expand as something that is
interconnected, real
time, and deliver results.
It's incredible.
And it's something I'm
personally excited about.
I think that maybe it's just the inner
sort of biology geek in me, but I think
having this sort of this information is
not only exciting, but it's ultimately
sort of just life changing, and it will
be life changing for so many people.
Thomas, you've been a star.
Before I let you go, would you be open to
answering a few rapid fire questions?
Rapid fire questions.
Yes, they're never rapid fire.
I have yet to.
I think that's normally my fault, but
let's see if we can give it a go.
Okay.
What's your favorite wearable device?
Whoop.
The reason for this is because I lost two
URAR rings in the sea.
So I didn't want to lose a third one
because, you know, not cheap.
And I'm a swimmer.
So and I like to swim in the sea and
yeah, it just doesn't work.
So I whoop.
The reason is well, I like to track my
workouts and I like to see being working
usually under stress
and intense, let's say.
HRV is a good marker or stress monitor is
a good marker for me to look at.
And sleep is super important for me if I
want to perform what I do.
And as training is on a daily basis, you
know, I have my time block
for it and I like to track.
And also if I see that, you know, the
combination of too much training and too
much work, I know where I need to recover
and potentially do something later.
Right.
So yeah, this is why I like whoop.
And especially now they're launching
those health sort of
lifespan, health span, sorry.
Very excited to unlock this among you
like three or four
days away of unlocking it.
You need it to be 21 days.
I just ascribe to it.
So let's see.
Let's see what it gives.
Yeah, that's my answer.
Trying to sort of fire it right now.
That's fun.
Like I said, these are never quick.
Anyway, yeah, no, I've I saw Chris
Williamson had a podcast with
the founder of Whoop recently.
And yeah, I'm very, I'm looking forward
to the new generation there.
I'll definitely be emailing you and
asking you some questions after the fact.
Okay, besides healthcare, what are you
most excited about in terms of AI?
Which sort of industry do you are you
most excited to see it
get into and develop?
Architecture, design, also something that
I really like outside of tech.
Yeah, but that's fine.
That's a far one.
Yeah, no, I know
nothing about architecture.
If you asked me to build
something, it would fall down.
So okay, if you could only track one
biomarker for overall
health, what would it be?
I think it would be yeah, I mean, HIV,
the reason being is HIV can
be a lot of things like stress,
obviously the sleep quality, but also can
be showing potentially
sign of chronic inflammation.
If you really don't get this HIV back on
track, and especially because once you
start linking HIV to over biomarkers,
it's become very interesting.
And for me personally, it is, but also
it's quite accessible, right?
You don't need to test and something that
is dynamic, which is like as well.
So you can quickly change your HIV based
on your lifestyle, your
diet environment, right?
So if I decide to go for dinner tonight,
have a glass of wine, I know it's going
to be very bad tomorrow.
But if I do a breathwork session, or when
I go swimming in the
sea, it will be to the roof.
And so yeah, it's very
reactive, which I like.
Yeah, perfect answer.
Thank you for that.
Okay, two more.
There's a lot of interest in the sort of,
I suppose, the health world at the moment
about trying to optimize health sort of
based off sort of single gene
polymorphisms, like MTHFR.
And all of a sudden, if you can try just
sort of dial in this one gene, you can
improve all aspects of your health.
I think I know your answer.
Yeah, this is not about MTHFR saying,
"Oh, it sounds like a squared world."
But I really think it does,
especially the way it is used.
I think it's overrated
to just use MTHFR 100%.
It's marketing, I'd say.
We know that yes, your genes are
important, but a single gene on its own
is just one better point is
far from the whole picture.
And I mean, I've wrote
a book about it in 2015.
I talk about MTHFR,
but alone has little value
and always has been my stand.
Mitillation pathways are
complex and it's not just one gene.
You have comped, you have
like, there's plenty of others.
And also, it needs to be
analyzed as a whole, right?
We've been moving a context.
If you have MTHFR issue and
you are a 55 years old woman,
it's very different if you
are a 25 years old, you go male.
And what does it mean?
So also, what is your goal?
Where are you right now
in your health journey?
And what are all the other
genes, variation and
biomarkers that are related to that?
So the B-litanins, all those different
things, and detoxification pathways.
So yeah, sorry, long answer, but I
couldn't go forever on this because it
doesn't always mean sometimes.
I mean, I don't get it, but yeah, I think
it's sometimes very much
misused for marketing reason.
No, I agree completely.
And now you've actually answered my next
one, which is what you would think of
polygenic risk scores.
But I think you've already answered that
right in the idea that you
think it's valuable for sure.
Again, because a single
SNP is just noise, right?
And it has minimal
impact and little context.
Well,
polygenic score, in contrast, I think
it's you know, combining thousands of
genetic variants into
a meaningful pattern.
And if you interpret this correctly,
they reveal your, you know, your genetic
predisposition and your score, your risks
of where you should be focusing on.
And yeah, it's powerful
for prevention, for sure.
Yeah, definitely is.
Thomas, you've been a
star and an amazing guest.
Where can people find you if they'd like
to connect or learn more about VTAX or
your other projects?
So Thomas Olivier on LinkedIn,
vtaix.health, if people want to join the
waiting list, there's a lot
of amazing things coming up.
The name might change, by the way.
Yes, we want to have
more of the user interface.
But being saved at
x.health is the website for now.
And yeah, I invite people
to be part of this new era.
Perfect.
And I'm sure the domain will redirect if
you do change the
name and we'll update it.
So perfect.
Thank you so much for your time.
It's been a pleasure chatting.
And I look forward to
doing so again in the future.
Likewise.
Speak to you soon.
Thank you very much.