1 01:00:00,375 --> 01:00:01,125 Good morning, Thomas. 2 01:00:01,125 --> 01:00:01,666 It's great to have you 3 01:00:01,666 --> 01:00:02,541 on the podcast today. 4 01:00:04,375 --> 01:00:04,541 Hi. 5 01:00:04,750 --> 01:00:04,958 Yeah. 6 01:00:05,416 --> 01:00:07,333 If memory serves, I think we first met 7 01:00:07,333 --> 01:00:08,041 back at the Health 8 01:00:08,041 --> 01:00:10,916 Optimization Summit in around 2023. 9 01:00:11,416 --> 01:00:12,416 I think you were there 10 01:00:12,416 --> 01:00:14,000 with Omnossa at the time. 11 01:00:14,916 --> 01:00:17,041 Anyway, it's been a minute and here we 12 01:00:17,041 --> 01:00:18,500 are in 2025 to talk about 13 01:00:18,500 --> 01:00:20,833 your latest venture, VTX. 14 01:00:21,708 --> 01:00:23,708 Before we dive into that particular 15 01:00:23,708 --> 01:00:25,250 conversation though, would you mind just 16 01:00:25,250 --> 01:00:26,291 introducing yourself 17 01:00:26,291 --> 01:00:27,708 to the audience for us? 18 01:00:27,875 --> 01:00:31,208 I know you have a fascinating history 19 01:00:31,208 --> 01:00:34,666 when it comes to science, to health, to 20 01:00:34,666 --> 01:00:36,708 exercise physiology, and I think it would 21 01:00:36,708 --> 01:00:39,500 be great to get that background again. 22 01:00:40,333 --> 01:00:40,666 Yeah, sure. 23 01:00:41,500 --> 01:00:43,750 Quick background, I will try 24 01:00:43,750 --> 01:00:45,500 to keep the story very short. 25 01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:48,375 But I like to say that 26 01:00:48,375 --> 01:00:49,166 I'm a failed athlete. 27 01:00:50,958 --> 01:00:53,500 When I was 16, I was a 28 01:00:53,500 --> 01:00:54,541 French champion of swimming, 29 01:00:56,250 --> 01:00:56,916 believe it or not. 30 01:00:58,625 --> 01:01:01,500 This is where it all started for me 31 01:01:01,500 --> 01:01:08,583 because I was training very intensively 32 01:01:08,583 --> 01:01:12,166 as you would do every day, every single 33 01:01:12,166 --> 01:01:15,708 day for two hours, holidays for me as a 34 01:01:15,708 --> 01:01:19,041 young 16 years old was twice a 35 01:01:19,041 --> 01:01:20,500 day in the pool for two hours. 36 01:01:22,500 --> 01:01:24,666 Everything was fine until 37 01:01:24,666 --> 01:01:27,041 I started to change pool. 38 01:01:28,208 --> 01:01:30,875 Went for the local Olympic 39 01:01:30,875 --> 01:01:32,291 pool, like change the club. 40 01:01:33,041 --> 01:01:36,000 One thing has changed there, which was 41 01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,250 the proximity of a bakery. 42 01:01:40,333 --> 01:01:44,666 The result of this is obviously when 43 01:01:44,666 --> 01:01:47,375 you're a 16 years old male, 44 01:01:48,791 --> 01:01:51,291 growing very fast, or when you're like 45 01:01:51,291 --> 01:01:53,166 busting testosterone, training like 46 01:01:53,166 --> 01:01:55,708 crazy, you just eat all the time. 47 01:01:56,333 --> 01:01:59,625 I remember going out of the training 48 01:01:59,625 --> 01:02:04,000 sessions and just I had my, in my 49 01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:05,458 backpack, the 50 01:02:05,458 --> 01:02:08,541 literally kilo pot of Nutella. 51 01:02:09,500 --> 01:02:11,583 I was passing by this bakery 52 01:02:11,583 --> 01:02:14,166 and I had this old baguette. 53 01:02:14,708 --> 01:02:16,416 I was opening, I had a knife as well, 54 01:02:16,458 --> 01:02:19,791 like old school opening the whole thing, 55 01:02:19,791 --> 01:02:22,375 putting half of it and just eating this 56 01:02:22,375 --> 01:02:23,750 on the way back home. 57 01:02:23,750 --> 01:02:26,541 That was just literally two 58 01:02:26,541 --> 01:02:27,541 hours maybe before dinner. 59 01:02:27,750 --> 01:02:29,500 I was still ready for dinner. 60 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:31,000 Fifteen hundred calories. 61 01:02:32,708 --> 01:02:33,541 The amount of calories I 62 01:02:33,541 --> 01:02:35,583 was burning was just crazy. 63 01:02:36,708 --> 01:02:40,041 You have to replenish, but obviously I 64 01:02:40,041 --> 01:02:43,041 learned very quickly the hard way, but I 65 01:02:43,041 --> 01:02:44,708 was replenished the wrong way. 66 01:02:45,541 --> 01:02:47,833 And I've learned this by literally 67 01:02:47,833 --> 01:02:49,916 crashing the day after I was in school, 68 01:02:50,791 --> 01:02:53,333 falling asleep and going to see the 69 01:02:53,333 --> 01:02:54,416 doctors and like, "Oh, 70 01:02:54,416 --> 01:02:55,458 you're all the training." 71 01:02:55,458 --> 01:02:57,041 I was like, "Whoa, what was the case?" 72 01:02:57,041 --> 01:02:58,833 And I didn't change my training regimen. 73 01:02:59,458 --> 01:03:00,666 I just changed the pool. 74 01:03:00,666 --> 01:03:01,541 I wasn't changing anything. 75 01:03:03,208 --> 01:03:06,125 So anyway, this is where I started to 76 01:03:06,125 --> 01:03:07,041 look into what could 77 01:03:07,041 --> 01:03:10,916 be the real issue here. 78 01:03:11,541 --> 01:03:14,166 And I was interested in nutrition and I 79 01:03:14,166 --> 01:03:16,916 fell into probably one of the 80 01:03:16,916 --> 01:03:18,416 first men's health at the time. 81 01:03:18,833 --> 01:03:19,583 And we're talking 82 01:03:19,583 --> 01:03:22,583 about early 2000s, right? 83 01:03:22,583 --> 01:03:26,541 And it was about nutrition for athletes. 84 01:03:27,375 --> 01:03:31,750 And I was shocked, but actually eating 85 01:03:31,750 --> 01:03:33,083 eggs and salmon in the 86 01:03:33,083 --> 01:03:34,208 morning was a good idea. 87 01:03:35,166 --> 01:03:38,291 And my cereal's box that was saying 88 01:03:38,291 --> 01:03:42,041 athletes was actually rubbish, right? 89 01:03:42,291 --> 01:03:46,250 And maybe the old baguette with half a 90 01:03:46,250 --> 01:03:47,250 pot of Nutella was 91 01:03:47,250 --> 01:03:48,333 not a good idea either. 92 01:03:48,875 --> 01:03:50,666 And when I changed this really quickly, 93 01:03:50,666 --> 01:03:51,833 things changed for me. 94 01:03:52,500 --> 01:03:55,000 And I got fascinated by nutrition and 95 01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:56,041 really trying to optimize 96 01:03:56,041 --> 01:03:58,208 my performance, my health. 97 01:03:59,375 --> 01:04:03,208 You know, so yeah, it opens a lot of new 98 01:04:03,208 --> 01:04:04,750 avenue for me to explore. 99 01:04:05,500 --> 01:04:07,750 And I felt it fascinating, especially 100 01:04:07,750 --> 01:04:11,083 since then, genetically speaking, I 101 01:04:11,083 --> 01:04:15,416 wasn't going to be the top swimmer 102 01:04:15,416 --> 01:04:17,041 because I'm not two meters. 103 01:04:18,750 --> 01:04:20,708 I'm 180 and actually 104 01:04:20,708 --> 01:04:22,875 it's short for a swimmer. 105 01:04:23,791 --> 01:04:26,625 And yeah, past 17, I was out, right? 106 01:04:26,625 --> 01:04:28,875 When everybody started growing and 107 01:04:28,875 --> 01:04:32,791 reached those size, I was just very, 108 01:04:32,791 --> 01:04:34,166 very, those height, I was 109 01:04:34,166 --> 01:04:35,500 just out for the competition. 110 01:04:35,958 --> 01:04:37,958 So I decided to stop and as a fair 111 01:04:37,958 --> 01:04:39,583 athlete went into sport science. 112 01:04:40,291 --> 01:04:40,958 Yeah, sure. 113 01:04:40,958 --> 01:04:42,125 Well, I'm far back. 114 01:04:42,333 --> 01:04:46,000 So you're doing pretty well by my steps. 115 01:04:46,541 --> 01:04:48,166 Yeah, anyway, so cutting 116 01:04:48,166 --> 01:04:49,416 down, so we're short from there. 117 01:04:49,958 --> 01:04:53,666 I, as I said, sport science, then arrived 118 01:04:53,666 --> 01:04:55,750 in London and started coaching. 119 01:04:56,083 --> 01:04:58,916 And I'm obviously going to go on step 120 01:04:58,916 --> 01:05:01,000 here, but coaching athletes. 121 01:05:02,083 --> 01:05:04,875 And what I really enjoy doing was trying 122 01:05:04,875 --> 01:05:08,000 to get as personalized as possible before 123 01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:10,666 personalized personalization was a thing. 124 01:05:11,958 --> 01:05:14,875 And again, looking at what was available, 125 01:05:15,458 --> 01:05:18,291 I fell into some research 126 01:05:18,291 --> 01:05:19,875 paper about nutrigenomics. 127 01:05:20,666 --> 01:05:21,791 And at the time it 128 01:05:21,791 --> 01:05:23,666 was in South Africa lab 129 01:05:24,958 --> 01:05:27,291 that we're looking at certain genes, like 130 01:05:27,291 --> 01:05:30,541 the famous old ones like FTO, you know, 131 01:05:32,250 --> 01:05:33,250 which basically 132 01:05:35,125 --> 01:05:37,291 taught me that, wow, we can actually have 133 01:05:37,291 --> 01:05:40,083 a very personalized approach to caution 134 01:05:40,291 --> 01:05:43,125 and to potentially educating someone 135 01:05:43,125 --> 01:05:44,916 about their own genetic 136 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:49,875 to be able then to, you know, have a 137 01:05:49,875 --> 01:05:51,791 tailored plan for 138 01:05:51,791 --> 01:05:54,416 performance, recovery, training. 139 01:05:54,833 --> 01:05:56,333 So it was all very exciting. 140 01:05:57,916 --> 01:05:59,750 Was that Tim Noakes's lab by any chance? 141 01:06:00,583 --> 01:06:02,583 DNA analysis, it was at the time. 142 01:06:02,583 --> 01:06:03,250 Oh, yes. 143 01:06:03,583 --> 01:06:04,416 I remember that company. 144 01:06:04,458 --> 01:06:05,500 Accuray Accuray up in South Africa. 145 01:06:06,291 --> 01:06:06,791 Exactly. 146 01:06:07,250 --> 01:06:12,666 And I bothered them a lot because I was a 147 01:06:12,666 --> 01:06:14,666 coach at the time and, you know, I had no 148 01:06:14,666 --> 01:06:16,375 medical background and I was like 149 01:06:16,375 --> 01:06:19,583 harassing them to learn and do a course, 150 01:06:20,666 --> 01:06:21,125 which we did. 151 01:06:22,416 --> 01:06:25,000 So the first course they made, and I 152 01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:26,333 think I was one of the first students, 153 01:06:28,166 --> 01:06:31,250 they became nutrigenomic certified 154 01:06:32,666 --> 01:06:35,666 and I started implementing this in London 155 01:06:35,666 --> 01:06:37,916 for all the athletes. 156 01:06:37,916 --> 01:06:38,750 And the test was still 157 01:06:38,750 --> 01:06:40,000 quite expensive at the time. 158 01:06:40,250 --> 01:06:40,458 Right. 159 01:06:40,750 --> 01:06:43,625 And we're looking at a few SNPs. 160 01:06:44,125 --> 01:06:47,541 So looking at maybe, you know, 20, 20 161 01:06:47,541 --> 01:06:50,250 SNPs maximum, probably even less. 162 01:06:51,708 --> 01:06:55,791 But then quickly start to try to improve 163 01:06:55,791 --> 01:06:57,583 all of this and also, especially in the 164 01:06:57,583 --> 01:07:00,416 recommendation aspect, not just the 165 01:07:00,416 --> 01:07:03,708 hardcore sort of gene and gene variation 166 01:07:03,708 --> 01:07:05,625 without explanation. 167 01:07:06,083 --> 01:07:08,333 So I was helping in putting this together 168 01:07:08,333 --> 01:07:10,708 and again, getting the whole story short, 169 01:07:10,708 --> 01:07:11,875 starting with first company. 170 01:07:13,416 --> 01:07:17,791 And I will make this very short because I 171 01:07:17,791 --> 01:07:22,666 decided to leave this company because, 172 01:07:24,041 --> 01:07:26,750 as you probably know, back in the day, 173 01:07:26,958 --> 01:07:27,916 DNA was the wild west. 174 01:07:29,125 --> 01:07:31,000 And when there's a 175 01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:32,000 wild west, there's cowboy. 176 01:07:33,333 --> 01:07:38,750 And there is definitely a lot of actors, 177 01:07:38,750 --> 01:07:41,083 let's say, that wanted to sell a product 178 01:07:41,083 --> 01:07:43,250 without really a continuity. 179 01:07:44,541 --> 01:07:45,833 And it worked for them, but 180 01:07:45,833 --> 01:07:47,750 it's not what I wanted to do. 181 01:07:49,083 --> 01:07:50,875 And so I exited all this 182 01:07:50,875 --> 01:07:53,208 and my vision was really to 183 01:07:55,500 --> 01:07:58,375 educate people on how to 184 01:07:58,375 --> 01:08:00,791 learn, explore their gene. 185 01:08:01,708 --> 01:08:03,875 So I sort of stepped back and wrote a 186 01:08:03,875 --> 01:08:04,916 book which was cracking 187 01:08:04,916 --> 01:08:06,458 your health code in 2014. 188 01:08:07,625 --> 01:08:09,083 And it's about that. 189 01:08:09,291 --> 01:08:12,958 It's about an invitation to explore your 190 01:08:12,958 --> 01:08:14,208 genes and learn about 191 01:08:14,208 --> 01:08:17,083 your different variation. 192 01:08:18,041 --> 01:08:19,166 And what can you do about it? 193 01:08:19,166 --> 01:08:19,791 So really, 194 01:08:19,791 --> 01:08:21,125 nutrigenomic connection, right? 195 01:08:21,166 --> 01:08:25,625 So how can we adapt, change with many 196 01:08:25,625 --> 01:08:26,791 habits, your behavior 197 01:08:26,791 --> 01:08:28,583 based on your genetic? 198 01:08:30,083 --> 01:08:32,666 But also while doing this, realizing that 199 01:08:32,666 --> 01:08:34,625 it's definitely not the whole story. 200 01:08:35,916 --> 01:08:38,000 And this is where we created GenSmart, 201 01:08:38,291 --> 01:08:40,833 which was my first platform 202 01:08:41,833 --> 01:08:45,291 where we were uploading 23 enemy data. 203 01:08:46,458 --> 01:08:47,958 And at the time it was quite funny 204 01:08:47,958 --> 01:08:52,208 because I was just going 205 01:08:52,208 --> 01:08:54,125 towards 23 enemy accounts. 206 01:08:54,708 --> 01:08:56,708 Hashtag 23 enemy Instagrams, like, hey, 207 01:08:56,708 --> 01:08:57,750 you can upload your data to 208 01:08:57,750 --> 01:08:59,291 GenSmart and find out more. 209 01:08:59,625 --> 01:09:01,583 More than learning that you are the 210 01:09:01,583 --> 01:09:03,583 cousin of Marie Antoinette or whatever. 211 01:09:04,916 --> 01:09:07,000 And give you actually insight already in 212 01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,083 terms of what are your predisposition? 213 01:09:11,541 --> 01:09:13,083 What can you learn about it? 214 01:09:14,041 --> 01:09:15,541 And so, yeah, maybe your data 215 01:09:15,541 --> 01:09:17,333 classification pathways are not optimal. 216 01:09:17,625 --> 01:09:20,500 So what can you do as many goals and 217 01:09:20,500 --> 01:09:23,250 tasks to implement in your daily life to 218 01:09:23,250 --> 01:09:25,625 potentially help you do better? 219 01:09:27,166 --> 01:09:29,500 But again, GenSmart was amazing, I think, 220 01:09:29,500 --> 01:09:31,000 at the time because 221 01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:32,500 we're talking about 2016. 222 01:09:32,875 --> 01:09:34,458 It was one of the first. 223 01:09:35,875 --> 01:09:38,083 But then I really wanted to connect the 224 01:09:38,083 --> 01:09:40,125 dots with functional testing. 225 01:09:41,125 --> 01:09:43,458 So functional medicine approach with the 226 01:09:43,458 --> 01:09:44,375 hormone test, the 227 01:09:44,375 --> 01:09:46,375 microbiome, blood markers. 228 01:09:47,333 --> 01:09:50,208 To really try to have a whole picture 229 01:09:50,208 --> 01:09:53,916 here of your risk factors, the where you 230 01:09:53,916 --> 01:09:55,000 are now in your journey 231 01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:56,750 based on the biomarkers. 232 01:09:57,666 --> 01:09:58,041 And also 233 01:09:58,041 --> 01:09:59,750 understanding your context, right? 234 01:09:59,750 --> 01:10:00,333 So the symptoms. 235 01:10:01,375 --> 01:10:03,750 And this is what we have been doing with 236 01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:05,458 HONOS and first with Imperial College, 237 01:10:05,458 --> 01:10:06,875 trying to develop this 238 01:10:06,875 --> 01:10:08,541 interconnectivity between the dots. 239 01:10:10,125 --> 01:10:12,333 And again, because data and 240 01:10:12,333 --> 01:10:15,041 isolation are just points, right? 241 01:10:15,541 --> 01:10:17,583 But when you start connecting the dots 242 01:10:17,583 --> 01:10:19,708 together, you can see pattern, you can 243 01:10:19,708 --> 01:10:21,000 you can understand the story. 244 01:10:22,083 --> 01:10:24,000 And it makes a great difference. 245 01:10:25,250 --> 01:10:29,333 And this is where we created HONOS, which 246 01:10:29,333 --> 01:10:33,250 looks at things by order of priority and 247 01:10:33,250 --> 01:10:35,958 looked at the combination of genetic 248 01:10:35,958 --> 01:10:38,500 symptom assessment and 249 01:10:38,500 --> 01:10:39,708 all functional testing. 250 01:10:41,291 --> 01:10:44,125 And by doing so, we really 251 01:10:44,125 --> 01:10:47,166 saw an uptake of practitioner. 252 01:10:47,583 --> 01:10:49,166 But those two camps, those practitioners 253 01:10:49,166 --> 01:10:51,208 looking at this and saying, oh, well, 254 01:10:51,208 --> 01:10:54,166 it's you know, it's not good because it's 255 01:10:54,166 --> 01:10:56,041 fancy colors and everything. 256 01:10:57,208 --> 01:10:59,083 And then others that starting to 257 01:10:59,083 --> 01:11:01,166 understand that actually very subsistence 258 01:11:01,166 --> 01:11:04,750 to it and can use it as a tool to improve 259 01:11:04,750 --> 01:11:07,750 my practice, because I can reach a higher 260 01:11:07,750 --> 01:11:10,458 level of network information that I 261 01:11:10,458 --> 01:11:11,333 couldn't do on my own 262 01:11:11,333 --> 01:11:13,166 because I'm just a hormone expert. 263 01:11:13,166 --> 01:11:14,625 I'm not necessarily a microbiome expert. 264 01:11:14,958 --> 01:11:17,250 And I'm not so good at reading blood 265 01:11:17,250 --> 01:11:18,250 markers, for example. 266 01:11:19,333 --> 01:11:22,541 And definitely not trained as a 267 01:11:22,541 --> 01:11:23,375 nutritional practitioner. 268 01:11:24,500 --> 01:11:26,166 So this is what we have done. 269 01:11:26,583 --> 01:11:30,125 And we had within less than six months of 270 01:11:30,125 --> 01:11:31,250 maybe a thousand 271 01:11:31,250 --> 01:11:32,708 practitioners using our platform. 272 01:11:33,333 --> 01:11:35,250 And this is where we took a leap of faith 273 01:11:35,250 --> 01:11:37,791 to acquire Regeneris Labs, 274 01:11:39,500 --> 01:11:43,958 which is the UK 275 01:11:43,958 --> 01:11:46,333 leading company for testing. 276 01:11:46,541 --> 01:11:46,750 Right. 277 01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,750 So we managed forces and this is what 278 01:11:49,750 --> 01:11:53,250 created now a CRM that's really support 279 01:11:53,250 --> 01:11:55,541 practitioner to have an efficient 280 01:11:55,541 --> 01:11:57,375 practice because you can order a test. 281 01:11:58,375 --> 01:11:59,166 You can have all your 282 01:11:59,166 --> 01:12:00,291 patients in one place. 283 01:12:00,500 --> 01:12:00,916 The results. 284 01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:04,250 Everything is in one place. 285 01:12:04,875 --> 01:12:06,583 And that's what I'm very proud of. 286 01:12:06,791 --> 01:12:08,916 What we have achieved here is to create a 287 01:12:08,916 --> 01:12:11,291 very much seamless experience from 288 01:12:11,291 --> 01:12:15,166 different labs to the end user, which is 289 01:12:15,166 --> 01:12:19,625 the practitioner here for efficiency. 290 01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:20,208 Right. 291 01:12:21,250 --> 01:12:23,291 So, yeah, that's the whole journey. 292 01:12:24,208 --> 01:12:25,541 Yeah, no, no, it is. 293 01:12:25,541 --> 01:12:26,416 It's an amazing journey. 294 01:12:26,833 --> 01:12:28,250 And I can vouch for the 295 01:12:28,250 --> 01:12:29,250 Ominous platform personally. 296 01:12:29,500 --> 01:12:30,250 I think it's incredible. 297 01:12:30,375 --> 01:12:31,958 The fact that you can, as you said 298 01:12:31,958 --> 01:12:34,583 yourself, just bring in these different 299 01:12:34,583 --> 01:12:38,125 types of data from various different 300 01:12:38,125 --> 01:12:42,250 types of functional lab testing and then 301 01:12:42,250 --> 01:12:45,166 just be able to look at it as a whole. 302 01:12:45,625 --> 01:12:47,916 And just the algorithm at play that just 303 01:12:47,916 --> 01:12:50,708 makes it so accessible, not only to 304 01:12:50,708 --> 01:12:52,291 people who are practitioners, but also to 305 01:12:52,291 --> 01:12:54,208 people like myself who maybe got more of 306 01:12:54,208 --> 01:12:55,041 an academic background 307 01:12:55,041 --> 01:12:55,833 and this sort of stuff. 308 01:12:56,041 --> 01:12:57,875 But it just brings it all together. 309 01:12:57,916 --> 01:12:59,708 It really does. 310 01:12:59,708 --> 01:13:03,250 And it makes the data actionable. 311 01:13:04,750 --> 01:13:07,208 That's always my mission. 312 01:13:07,500 --> 01:13:11,916 Still is to make things accessible for 313 01:13:11,916 --> 01:13:14,375 everyone, but also effective to anyone. 314 01:13:14,375 --> 01:13:14,583 Right. 315 01:13:14,833 --> 01:13:17,208 In a sense of getting the 316 01:13:17,208 --> 01:13:18,750 insight for all those data. 317 01:13:19,416 --> 01:13:22,208 But what does it mean in terms of 318 01:13:22,208 --> 01:13:26,375 mechanism of process of turning this into 319 01:13:26,375 --> 01:13:31,750 real time action and adjustments for 320 01:13:31,750 --> 01:13:33,875 preventive prevention, for example? 321 01:13:34,541 --> 01:13:34,750 Yeah. 322 01:13:34,750 --> 01:13:36,916 And as you alluded to earlier, I think it 323 01:13:36,916 --> 01:13:39,166 really sort of supports physicians as 324 01:13:39,166 --> 01:13:41,000 well, because then they can sort of they 325 01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,208 can work through the biochemistry. 326 01:13:43,416 --> 01:13:45,125 They can work through the endocrinology. 327 01:13:45,333 --> 01:13:47,791 They can work through the the gut stuff 328 01:13:47,791 --> 01:13:50,208 and just it's all provided there and they 329 01:13:50,208 --> 01:13:52,166 get this feedback on a patient and they 330 01:13:52,166 --> 01:13:53,125 can ultimately provide 331 01:13:53,125 --> 01:13:54,750 better care as a result. 332 01:13:55,250 --> 01:13:56,708 And there's also the learning hub. 333 01:13:56,708 --> 01:13:56,875 Right. 334 01:13:56,875 --> 01:13:58,416 So if you are a practitioner, not 335 01:13:58,416 --> 01:14:01,750 necessarily within the platform, you have 336 01:14:01,750 --> 01:14:03,250 all those amazing practitioners. 337 01:14:04,208 --> 01:14:06,916 You have workshops, you have video 338 01:14:06,916 --> 01:14:08,083 training, you have 339 01:14:08,083 --> 01:14:10,000 courses you can you can do. 340 01:14:10,791 --> 01:14:12,208 So, yeah, it's a great platform. 341 01:14:12,416 --> 01:14:13,250 So very proud of that. 342 01:14:13,625 --> 01:14:15,125 No, I love the one that Dean St. 343 01:14:15,125 --> 01:14:16,583 Mark did a while ago on. 344 01:14:17,125 --> 01:14:18,375 He's done two or three now, 345 01:14:18,375 --> 01:14:19,500 but those were incredible. 346 01:14:21,500 --> 01:14:23,416 Anyway, Thomas, that's that's that's 347 01:14:23,416 --> 01:14:25,416 quite the story and it's quite the jump 348 01:14:25,416 --> 01:14:26,833 as well, sort of going from the sort of 349 01:14:26,833 --> 01:14:28,458 background and sort of sports science and 350 01:14:28,458 --> 01:14:30,333 I suppose exercise physiology all the way 351 01:14:30,333 --> 01:14:32,000 into the sort of tech startup world. 352 01:14:32,708 --> 01:14:32,916 Yeah, 353 01:14:34,750 --> 01:14:36,541 I think a great place to sort of continue 354 01:14:36,541 --> 01:14:39,625 this conversation would be actually let's 355 01:14:39,625 --> 01:14:40,625 backtrack slightly and 356 01:14:40,625 --> 01:14:41,875 talk about mutual genomics. 357 01:14:43,041 --> 01:14:44,750 And again, it's a passion of yours and 358 01:14:44,750 --> 01:14:46,375 evidently something you're 359 01:14:46,375 --> 01:14:48,125 well you're well learned in. 360 01:14:48,750 --> 01:14:52,208 Now, the way I understand it, it's basic, 361 01:14:52,208 --> 01:14:54,166 of course, it's a relationship between 362 01:14:54,166 --> 01:14:55,916 what we eat, our genes, and I suppose 363 01:14:55,916 --> 01:14:56,875 fundamentally our health. 364 01:14:57,375 --> 01:14:58,000 Of course, there's a 365 01:14:58,000 --> 01:14:59,500 lot more to it than that. 366 01:14:59,750 --> 01:15:02,208 But would you mind breaking down this 367 01:15:02,208 --> 01:15:06,041 concept for us and maybe how you some 368 01:15:06,041 --> 01:15:07,166 examples of how you 369 01:15:07,166 --> 01:15:10,458 utilize the it earlier on with. 370 01:15:10,500 --> 01:15:12,375 With the athletes that you were training, 371 01:15:12,833 --> 01:15:14,125 I think it would be quite interesting to 372 01:15:14,125 --> 01:15:16,125 delve into some of those that you answer. 373 01:15:17,041 --> 01:15:20,416 I think you you made it very clear and 374 01:15:20,416 --> 01:15:22,375 trying to make it a complex simple 375 01:15:22,375 --> 01:15:23,083 because the tradition 376 01:15:23,083 --> 01:15:24,375 makes me a bit complex. 377 01:15:26,166 --> 01:15:28,375 But for the audience here, which I'm sure 378 01:15:28,375 --> 01:15:31,750 is a very educated audience, but the 379 01:15:31,750 --> 01:15:33,666 traditional mix is really the interaction 380 01:15:33,666 --> 01:15:35,333 between the food, your 381 01:15:35,333 --> 01:15:38,000 lifestyle, your environment, right? 382 01:15:38,416 --> 01:15:40,416 And your gene and how they express. 383 01:15:41,291 --> 01:15:43,875 So the idea is you have a certain set of 384 01:15:43,875 --> 01:15:48,291 genes and your bio individuality, right? 385 01:15:48,625 --> 01:15:52,625 So my genotype will be different venues. 386 01:15:53,875 --> 01:15:56,083 And based on this, we obviously have 387 01:15:56,083 --> 01:15:57,041 different way of 388 01:15:57,041 --> 01:15:59,083 expressing those genotypes. 389 01:16:00,416 --> 01:16:02,875 And I'll give you examples based on the 390 01:16:02,875 --> 01:16:05,166 story from what I have, for example, the 391 01:16:05,166 --> 01:16:07,833 reason why I was crashing, for example, 392 01:16:08,500 --> 01:16:11,000 was an insulin sensitivity issue. 393 01:16:11,791 --> 01:16:15,166 Many years later, I tested for the genes, 394 01:16:15,500 --> 01:16:17,583 but I realized that all my insulin 395 01:16:17,583 --> 01:16:19,083 sensitivity genes 396 01:16:19,083 --> 01:16:21,916 were sort of high impact. 397 01:16:22,250 --> 01:16:22,458 Right. 398 01:16:22,458 --> 01:16:25,291 So the PPA-RG genes, for example, which 399 01:16:25,291 --> 01:16:26,875 has to do with insulin regulation. 400 01:16:29,041 --> 01:16:31,875 It regulates all the fat cell development 401 01:16:31,875 --> 01:16:37,166 and glucose metabolism and more really. 402 01:16:37,416 --> 01:16:40,708 But what I had this variance, right? 403 01:16:42,541 --> 01:16:46,375 I had my insulin resistance was 404 01:16:46,375 --> 01:16:47,416 definitely not there. 405 01:16:47,416 --> 01:16:51,625 So when I got this baguette and the 406 01:16:51,625 --> 01:16:54,416 Nutella, I'm down to crash. 407 01:16:54,625 --> 01:16:57,125 And the long term of doing this also 408 01:16:57,125 --> 01:16:59,458 could have been well, being an athlete 409 01:16:59,458 --> 01:17:00,291 was a bit different. 410 01:17:00,750 --> 01:17:04,125 But let's say if I was sedentary, that is 411 01:17:04,125 --> 01:17:05,708 high risk of type 2 diabetes. 412 01:17:06,208 --> 01:17:06,416 Right. 413 01:17:06,416 --> 01:17:08,125 So they've long term type 2 diabetes. 414 01:17:08,416 --> 01:17:10,125 I am a high risk of type 2 diabetes. 415 01:17:11,333 --> 01:17:14,500 And that's why in my lifestyle, I have 416 01:17:14,500 --> 01:17:15,541 implemented things 417 01:17:15,541 --> 01:17:16,916 like intermittent fasting. 418 01:17:18,041 --> 01:17:20,791 All the little tools that I can use to 419 01:17:20,791 --> 01:17:22,250 regulate my glucose 420 01:17:22,250 --> 01:17:24,375 are still very important. 421 01:17:25,833 --> 01:17:29,208 If I were again, still acting like a 422 01:17:29,208 --> 01:17:33,875 French ninja, not understanding 423 01:17:33,875 --> 01:17:36,291 nutrition, I would crash. 424 01:17:36,708 --> 01:17:36,791 Right. 425 01:17:36,791 --> 01:17:38,750 So it's very important for 426 01:17:38,750 --> 01:17:41,583 me to have protein when I eat. 427 01:17:41,625 --> 01:17:43,708 And if I don't fast, you 428 01:17:43,708 --> 01:17:45,291 know, break my fast with protein, 429 01:17:46,416 --> 01:17:48,166 it is almost things are very important. 430 01:17:48,791 --> 01:17:50,750 And there's many, many different genes 431 01:17:50,750 --> 01:17:52,541 and variation you can have. 432 01:17:52,750 --> 01:17:54,958 So the most known, for example, is maybe 433 01:17:54,958 --> 01:17:55,833 caffeine metabolism. 434 01:17:56,375 --> 01:17:56,583 Right. 435 01:17:57,166 --> 01:18:03,125 So this gene CYP-OMA2, which is your 436 01:18:03,125 --> 01:18:05,458 short, I mean, fast 437 01:18:05,458 --> 01:18:06,916 metabolism or slow metabolism. 438 01:18:07,416 --> 01:18:09,333 So that explains some people with just 439 01:18:09,333 --> 01:18:10,250 after one espresso, 440 01:18:10,833 --> 01:18:12,333 which is habitory, right. 441 01:18:13,083 --> 01:18:16,000 And over time, all the genes to do with 442 01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,500 again, I have all this sassy genes as 443 01:18:18,500 --> 01:18:21,833 well, where like MC4 are, I call it the 444 01:18:21,833 --> 01:18:23,000 Deft-Bufet syndrome. 445 01:18:24,208 --> 01:18:28,000 Because you put in front of me a Bufet 446 01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,666 and if I'm hungry and if I'm tired, I'm 447 01:18:30,666 --> 01:18:32,666 just wired to go and 448 01:18:32,666 --> 01:18:34,083 eat without stopping. 449 01:18:34,083 --> 01:18:34,291 Right. 450 01:18:34,291 --> 01:18:36,208 I don't have this switch off button. 451 01:18:36,750 --> 01:18:38,041 So all those things, these things that 452 01:18:38,041 --> 01:18:42,500 I've learned and have the habits, develop 453 01:18:42,500 --> 01:18:45,333 the habits to like mindful eating and 454 01:18:45,333 --> 01:18:47,250 making sure I have enough protein, making 455 01:18:47,250 --> 01:18:50,166 sure, you know, to switch off those genes 456 01:18:50,166 --> 01:18:51,541 to express a bit too much. 457 01:18:51,541 --> 01:18:51,750 Right. 458 01:18:51,750 --> 01:18:53,625 So and then you can go into 459 01:18:53,625 --> 01:18:55,458 health-related issue, cardiovascular 460 01:18:55,458 --> 01:19:00,416 detoxification pathways like GST-M1, 461 01:19:01,458 --> 01:19:02,750 which I think is a fine 462 01:19:02,750 --> 01:19:07,333 living in London, very toxic city, 463 01:19:08,833 --> 01:19:11,416 having all those detoxification pathways, 464 01:19:12,166 --> 01:19:14,708 you know, like phase one and 465 01:19:14,708 --> 01:19:16,291 phase two, not being optimal. 466 01:19:16,708 --> 01:19:18,958 I do need to support my detoxification 467 01:19:18,958 --> 01:19:20,875 pathways on an ongoing basis. 468 01:19:21,500 --> 01:19:23,250 I would fall asleep literally as soon as 469 01:19:23,250 --> 01:19:24,666 I arrive in the tube because it's so 470 01:19:24,666 --> 01:19:27,125 toxic with all different things. 471 01:19:27,125 --> 01:19:27,458 Right. 472 01:19:27,791 --> 01:19:31,666 So implementing, well, a lot of training, 473 01:19:31,875 --> 01:19:34,666 supporting my with certain supplements, 474 01:19:35,083 --> 01:19:39,041 but also doing things like making sure I 475 01:19:39,041 --> 01:19:42,500 eat food that is not, you know, full of 476 01:19:42,500 --> 01:19:45,125 pesticides, the clean 15 and all those 477 01:19:45,125 --> 01:19:48,083 different things and also making sure 478 01:19:48,083 --> 01:19:49,958 that I now and then have sonars. 479 01:19:50,458 --> 01:19:51,625 All of these are things 480 01:19:51,625 --> 01:19:53,500 that are very important for me. 481 01:19:54,250 --> 01:19:56,416 Yeah, that's fascinating. 482 01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:59,791 And it's interesting to see, just going 483 01:19:59,791 --> 01:20:02,083 back to the sporting analogy for a 484 01:20:02,083 --> 01:20:05,041 moment, how and I'm sure you still follow 485 01:20:05,041 --> 01:20:07,000 endurance sports to some extent, but just 486 01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:10,708 how this genetic data has almost 487 01:20:12,208 --> 01:20:14,791 driven the industry in terms of how 488 01:20:14,791 --> 01:20:16,666 athletes are feeling and eating. 489 01:20:16,666 --> 01:20:17,916 I remember I don't know if you follow 490 01:20:17,916 --> 01:20:20,250 cycling at all, but when Chris Froome, 491 01:20:20,500 --> 01:20:23,333 who won the Tour de France, I think three 492 01:20:23,333 --> 01:20:26,333 or four years in a row, was really 493 01:20:26,333 --> 01:20:28,625 performing well before he had a crash at 494 01:20:28,625 --> 01:20:29,875 the Crète d'Ephane. 495 01:20:30,666 --> 01:20:31,666 He was following a very 496 01:20:31,666 --> 01:20:33,833 high fat, low carb diet. 497 01:20:33,833 --> 01:20:35,250 And at the time it was 498 01:20:35,250 --> 01:20:37,875 assumed that that was optimal. 499 01:20:38,708 --> 01:20:41,583 And nowadays it's interesting that you 500 01:20:41,583 --> 01:20:43,958 see these same athletes and what they're 501 01:20:43,958 --> 01:20:47,333 now doing is running a very low quality. 502 01:20:47,375 --> 01:20:49,416 That is very nice actually with cyclists. 503 01:20:50,416 --> 01:20:54,166 The difference from a person to another 504 01:20:54,166 --> 01:20:56,625 can be amazing, especially in terms of 505 01:20:56,625 --> 01:20:57,875 recovery, performance. 506 01:20:59,375 --> 01:21:01,875 Let's say I'm a sprinter, right? 507 01:21:02,125 --> 01:21:03,416 I'm designed to be, I've got this 508 01:21:03,416 --> 01:21:05,916 ACTN-free fast-twitch metabolism. 509 01:21:06,708 --> 01:21:10,458 You make me swim a thousand kilometres, 510 01:21:10,791 --> 01:21:12,750 people take me far away, but a hundred 511 01:21:12,750 --> 01:21:14,375 metres was the best, right? 512 01:21:14,375 --> 01:21:14,875 Back in the days. 513 01:21:15,708 --> 01:21:17,500 It's just harm design, right? 514 01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:19,083 But also the recovery. 515 01:21:19,333 --> 01:21:20,541 So cyclists, for example, 516 01:21:21,666 --> 01:21:24,375 had a cyclist who had very slow recovery 517 01:21:24,375 --> 01:21:25,125 and was suffering 518 01:21:25,125 --> 01:21:27,000 from it, always in pain. 519 01:21:27,250 --> 01:21:29,333 And there's a gene called SOD2, which has 520 01:21:29,333 --> 01:21:30,416 to do with antioxidant. 521 01:21:31,666 --> 01:21:36,041 And obviously when you train that much, 522 01:21:36,041 --> 01:21:38,500 you create a lot of oxidative stress. 523 01:21:39,333 --> 01:21:42,875 And when we started juicing and getting 524 01:21:42,875 --> 01:21:45,166 as many as antioxidant for supplements 525 01:21:45,166 --> 01:21:49,000 and food, it was a game 526 01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:50,041 changer for this person. 527 01:21:50,416 --> 01:21:52,166 The recovery was much faster, 528 01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:56,125 the pain almost disappeared. 529 01:21:57,125 --> 01:22:00,750 And that's just because you are adapting 530 01:22:00,750 --> 01:22:03,500 to what you are designed for, right? 531 01:22:03,500 --> 01:22:06,583 So I think Nutriusion Mixer definitely 532 01:22:06,583 --> 01:22:09,625 has its value in not only for 533 01:22:09,625 --> 01:22:11,250 performance, but for health as well, 534 01:22:11,250 --> 01:22:12,916 which is what I'm focusing on now. 535 01:22:13,500 --> 01:22:14,375 Yeah, definitely. 536 01:22:14,833 --> 01:22:17,166 And I think the other sort of nugget of 537 01:22:17,166 --> 01:22:19,000 wisdom in there is that you can also 538 01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:22,000 utilise genetics and eugenomics to almost 539 01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:23,875 identify what you would 540 01:22:23,875 --> 01:22:25,416 do well in within a sport. 541 01:22:25,416 --> 01:22:27,500 Just going back to cycling, for example, 542 01:22:27,750 --> 01:22:30,000 as you alluded to earlier, if you are 543 01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:33,291 ACTN, if you're sort of version of the 544 01:22:33,291 --> 01:22:37,250 ACTN 3 gene, if you're an RR phenotype, 545 01:22:37,250 --> 01:22:39,291 you're obviously going to be far more 546 01:22:39,291 --> 01:22:40,875 effective at sprinting than 547 01:22:40,875 --> 01:22:41,833 you would say at climbing. 548 01:22:42,375 --> 01:22:44,166 So I think when you look at it through 549 01:22:44,166 --> 01:22:47,041 that lens too, it can really help you to 550 01:22:47,041 --> 01:22:50,500 sort of identify maybe where in your 551 01:22:50,500 --> 01:22:53,041 sport or you would expel or what sort of 552 01:22:53,041 --> 01:22:53,541 sport you would 553 01:22:53,541 --> 01:22:56,125 expel, not expel, as well. 554 01:22:56,875 --> 01:22:58,458 So there's a lot of gene, for example, 555 01:22:58,458 --> 01:23:00,000 like the O2 Max and all those things. 556 01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:01,916 That makes quite a difference, right? 557 01:23:02,250 --> 01:23:04,000 So if you are a Nutri 558 01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:05,625 marathon runner, for example, 559 01:23:06,833 --> 01:23:08,708 and if you do all those different genes 560 01:23:08,708 --> 01:23:10,750 to do with like performance, 561 01:23:11,833 --> 01:23:13,875 ultra long performance, 562 01:23:14,541 --> 01:23:17,583 they do make a big difference. 563 01:23:18,166 --> 01:23:20,791 However, one thing I would say here for 564 01:23:20,791 --> 01:23:24,916 all the listeners is if you're an 565 01:23:24,916 --> 01:23:27,000 athlete, yes, you want to look at that, 566 01:23:28,166 --> 01:23:31,625 but you also, even athletes actually will 567 01:23:31,625 --> 01:23:34,250 benefit from any disciplines and the 568 01:23:34,250 --> 01:23:36,125 variation as a whole is 569 01:23:36,125 --> 01:23:37,416 very important actually. 570 01:23:38,166 --> 01:23:40,458 And you will find that most top athletes, 571 01:23:40,666 --> 01:23:42,791 say Michael Jordan was also good at 572 01:23:42,791 --> 01:23:46,166 golfing, right, or other things, because 573 01:23:46,166 --> 01:23:51,375 baseball, right, it's a different set of 574 01:23:51,375 --> 01:23:52,583 skills that makes you 575 01:23:52,583 --> 01:23:53,500 an athlete, I would say. 576 01:23:54,083 --> 01:23:56,041 So it's not just down to genetics, but 577 01:23:56,041 --> 01:23:59,125 genetics definitely give you a 578 01:23:59,125 --> 01:24:00,708 predisposition to certain things. 579 01:24:01,083 --> 01:24:01,291 Yeah. 580 01:24:01,375 --> 01:24:01,583 Yeah. 581 01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:03,041 I'm a chemist again. 582 01:24:03,416 --> 01:24:06,041 My physiology is well behind me, but is 583 01:24:06,041 --> 01:24:08,416 that the said principle of the specific 584 01:24:08,416 --> 01:24:09,833 adaptation to impose demands? 585 01:24:11,166 --> 01:24:12,041 Would that be correct? 586 01:24:12,250 --> 01:24:15,583 The idea that your performance can 587 01:24:15,583 --> 01:24:18,041 improve if you drive 588 01:24:18,041 --> 01:24:19,541 that variation in it? 589 01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:20,208 Yeah. 590 01:24:20,458 --> 01:24:20,625 Yeah. 591 01:24:20,875 --> 01:24:24,125 So yeah, of course, I think it's just 592 01:24:24,125 --> 01:24:25,958 like anything, right? 593 01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:26,916 So the more you do it. 594 01:24:27,500 --> 01:24:29,833 So right now, I'm very focused on on my 595 01:24:29,833 --> 01:24:33,125 VO2 max and all those 596 01:24:33,125 --> 01:24:35,291 different things as a marker. 597 01:24:35,500 --> 01:24:38,250 And I'm really doing half 598 01:24:38,250 --> 01:24:39,958 protocol in the way I train. 599 01:24:41,166 --> 01:24:42,875 For example, I will do like, you know, 600 01:24:44,125 --> 01:24:45,625 I can't remember the name of this 601 01:24:45,625 --> 01:24:46,583 protocol, but I think it's 602 01:24:46,583 --> 01:24:48,291 something to do with Norway. 603 01:24:49,916 --> 01:24:54,000 It's basically, you know, you run 800 604 01:24:54,083 --> 01:24:57,500 meters and then you top again for two 605 01:24:57,500 --> 01:24:58,458 minutes and do it again. 606 01:24:58,916 --> 01:25:00,500 You're actually a lot more likely to 607 01:25:00,500 --> 01:25:01,958 develop your VO2 max than just 608 01:25:01,958 --> 01:25:03,375 going for very long distance. 609 01:25:04,333 --> 01:25:06,541 So there's many protocols like this that 610 01:25:06,541 --> 01:25:08,250 you can implement based on 611 01:25:08,250 --> 01:25:09,916 what you want to achieve. 612 01:25:09,916 --> 01:25:10,625 What is your goal? 613 01:25:11,625 --> 01:25:14,333 And this is a more true if you know your 614 01:25:14,333 --> 01:25:16,041 genetics, you know where you are now, you 615 01:25:16,041 --> 01:25:18,166 know how you react with those biometrics 616 01:25:18,166 --> 01:25:20,666 and you can track and progress with where 617 01:25:20,666 --> 01:25:22,208 you can adapt and make it dynamic. 618 01:25:22,541 --> 01:25:25,083 And I think this is how any 619 01:25:25,083 --> 01:25:26,625 athletes should do it now. 620 01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:28,666 And most of them do anyway. 621 01:25:29,791 --> 01:25:31,333 But we're still learning, but it's 622 01:25:31,333 --> 01:25:34,583 exciting that now you can track, you can 623 01:25:34,583 --> 01:25:37,541 see what you are made of and you can see 624 01:25:37,541 --> 01:25:38,291 where your weaknesses 625 01:25:38,291 --> 01:25:40,000 are, what you can prove. 626 01:25:41,208 --> 01:25:43,375 So, you know, already back in the day, 627 01:25:43,375 --> 01:25:48,583 right, if someone had certain athletes, 628 01:25:49,125 --> 01:25:51,791 like, I don't know, rugby players I was 629 01:25:51,791 --> 01:25:56,958 coaching, if they had a lot of issues 630 01:25:56,958 --> 01:26:01,958 with tendon injury, collagen genes, 631 01:26:02,250 --> 01:26:04,541 COL5-1 and all those different genes. 632 01:26:05,250 --> 01:26:07,166 Well, we would supplement for sure and 633 01:26:07,166 --> 01:26:08,916 we'll make sure the recovery is on top. 634 01:26:08,916 --> 01:26:11,875 Also in terms of the conditioning, the 635 01:26:11,875 --> 01:26:13,541 training would be a lot about 636 01:26:13,541 --> 01:26:15,916 conditioning was tendon and 637 01:26:15,916 --> 01:26:17,125 preventing those injuries. 638 01:26:17,625 --> 01:26:19,208 Whereas, but someone who never had any 639 01:26:19,208 --> 01:26:21,000 injury and didn't have any of those 640 01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:22,833 genes, we will focus on other things 641 01:26:22,833 --> 01:26:24,583 where we were showing the weakness. 642 01:26:24,875 --> 01:26:26,833 So it's very interesting to see that in a 643 01:26:26,833 --> 01:26:28,458 team, there's different way 644 01:26:28,458 --> 01:26:29,583 of training an individual, 645 01:26:30,833 --> 01:26:33,041 because none of them are average, right? 646 01:26:33,333 --> 01:26:35,416 So, but they shouldn't 647 01:26:35,416 --> 01:26:36,166 have the same training. 648 01:26:36,458 --> 01:26:37,666 They should have the same training for 649 01:26:37,666 --> 01:26:39,916 sure as a team, but individually, it 650 01:26:39,916 --> 01:26:40,458 should be different. 651 01:26:41,500 --> 01:26:41,708 Yeah. 652 01:26:42,333 --> 01:26:43,833 Thomas, I think we could probably spend 653 01:26:43,833 --> 01:26:45,500 all day just talking 654 01:26:45,500 --> 01:26:46,583 about genes and DART. 655 01:26:47,708 --> 01:26:48,708 If I think we should probably, 656 01:26:50,125 --> 01:26:52,125 maybe, and that's my fault, I apologize, 657 01:26:52,125 --> 01:26:53,333 I'm the king of tangents, we should 658 01:26:53,333 --> 01:26:56,416 probably go back to talk about 659 01:26:57,750 --> 01:26:59,458 the topic of today's conversation, which 660 01:26:59,458 --> 01:27:00,916 is your latest venture, VTX. 661 01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:03,541 Now, you're kind enough to send me a 662 01:27:03,541 --> 01:27:06,000 white paper in 663 01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:07,833 preparation for this podcast. 664 01:27:08,416 --> 01:27:10,583 And it was quite the monster, to be fair, 665 01:27:10,625 --> 01:27:11,541 there was a lot there. 666 01:27:12,166 --> 01:27:15,333 My main takeaway for your vision for VTX 667 01:27:15,333 --> 01:27:17,791 is that you're aiming to sort of create, 668 01:27:17,791 --> 01:27:21,000 I suppose, a platform driven by a 669 01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:22,750 framework, or maybe an operating system 670 01:27:22,750 --> 01:27:25,541 is a better term, which I believe you've 671 01:27:25,541 --> 01:27:27,875 turned the smart health 672 01:27:27,875 --> 01:27:30,041 ecosystem or SHE or she. 673 01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:34,875 The idea is to use AI to help move 674 01:27:34,875 --> 01:27:37,375 medicine away from sort of a reactor 675 01:27:37,375 --> 01:27:39,708 model, i.e. one that deals with health 676 01:27:39,708 --> 01:27:42,125 issues as they arrive to one that is more 677 01:27:42,125 --> 01:27:43,750 preventative and I 678 01:27:43,750 --> 01:27:45,458 suppose regenerative in nature. 679 01:27:46,291 --> 01:27:47,458 Now, chances are, I know I probably 680 01:27:47,458 --> 01:27:50,125 butchered that to some extent, but I hope 681 01:27:50,125 --> 01:27:51,250 that I got the gist of it. 682 01:27:51,625 --> 01:27:55,458 Would you mind elaborating on this idea 683 01:27:55,458 --> 01:27:57,375 of VTX and what drove 684 01:27:57,375 --> 01:27:58,708 you to develop the project? 685 01:27:59,500 --> 01:28:02,000 Well, what drove me to this project? 686 01:28:02,250 --> 01:28:03,875 I mean, I've been in the industry for 687 01:28:03,875 --> 01:28:09,000 over 20 years now, and it's always the 688 01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:09,916 same problem, right? 689 01:28:09,916 --> 01:28:13,208 Trying to fix the system that... 690 01:28:14,583 --> 01:28:20,375 Well, the problem is that we have a 21st 691 01:28:20,375 --> 01:28:22,791 century disease burden, but we still have 692 01:28:22,791 --> 01:28:26,041 a 21st century system to deal with it. 693 01:28:26,041 --> 01:28:29,208 And what I mean by that is if you look at 694 01:28:29,208 --> 01:28:33,000 the healthcare system as it is now, and 695 01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:34,458 when I'm saying all this, by the way, 696 01:28:34,500 --> 01:28:36,916 it's not pointing the finger and saying, 697 01:28:37,125 --> 01:28:38,958 "Oh, this is very bad," especially not 698 01:28:38,958 --> 01:28:40,666 other people who work in that system 699 01:28:40,666 --> 01:28:43,041 because they're amazing people that save 700 01:28:43,041 --> 01:28:44,583 life on a daily basis, right? 701 01:28:46,208 --> 01:28:47,500 But this is exactly it. 702 01:28:47,708 --> 01:28:49,666 They save life on a daily basis because 703 01:28:49,666 --> 01:28:51,250 it's an acute care system. 704 01:28:51,958 --> 01:28:53,833 However, if you want to deal with the 705 01:28:53,833 --> 01:28:56,041 problem of today, which are a massive 706 01:28:56,041 --> 01:28:57,500 burden for individuals, 707 01:28:58,500 --> 01:29:00,000 communities, governments, 708 01:29:01,250 --> 01:29:03,875 whether it's economical, social burden, 709 01:29:06,041 --> 01:29:09,166 it's diseases that are multi-factorials 710 01:29:09,166 --> 01:29:12,625 that develop over decades, if not more, 711 01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:17,833 and that we cannot treat as a one-cause 712 01:29:17,833 --> 01:29:21,041 effect sort of scenario, which we do with 713 01:29:21,041 --> 01:29:21,916 the healthcare system. 714 01:29:22,541 --> 01:29:25,708 So if you go with anxiety, chronic 715 01:29:25,708 --> 01:29:28,125 anxiety, let's say, and see the 716 01:29:28,125 --> 01:29:30,541 healthcare system, they will treat you 717 01:29:30,541 --> 01:29:33,750 with one single solution, 718 01:29:33,750 --> 01:29:35,750 which is medication, right? 719 01:29:36,250 --> 01:29:37,916 But it's not the source of the problem. 720 01:29:38,166 --> 01:29:39,583 What is the source of the problem? 721 01:29:39,583 --> 01:29:41,375 And this is where we want to find out 722 01:29:41,375 --> 01:29:43,708 because we want to eradicate the issue 723 01:29:43,708 --> 01:29:47,333 here before it becomes a bigger problem. 724 01:29:48,375 --> 01:29:52,250 And yeah, I think it comes from there. 725 01:29:52,250 --> 01:29:55,500 It's like, how can we create a system 726 01:29:55,500 --> 01:29:59,541 that is about predictive prevention that 727 01:29:59,541 --> 01:30:03,333 is in real time, but that is very much 728 01:30:03,333 --> 01:30:07,625 personalized because it's a reality. 729 01:30:10,083 --> 01:30:12,958 The healthcare system, as it is now, is 730 01:30:12,958 --> 01:30:15,708 an average treat people as average, but 731 01:30:15,708 --> 01:30:17,041 we are not average people. 732 01:30:17,375 --> 01:30:19,208 We're all very different and we need to 733 01:30:19,208 --> 01:30:21,916 have this very hyper-personalized 734 01:30:21,916 --> 01:30:24,875 approach if we want to fix things. 735 01:30:26,333 --> 01:30:30,000 And we also need a system that actually 736 01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:32,208 includes the person in the middle, 737 01:30:32,875 --> 01:30:35,666 because Reiner is very fragmented, is 738 01:30:35,666 --> 01:30:39,500 very siloed, and you only go there when 739 01:30:39,500 --> 01:30:42,083 you break down, and in between, 740 01:30:43,166 --> 01:30:44,291 you're on your own, right? 741 01:30:44,458 --> 01:30:45,708 And you don't know how to 742 01:30:45,708 --> 01:30:47,666 participate in your health. 743 01:30:48,250 --> 01:30:50,541 And with this sort of context, you're 744 01:30:50,541 --> 01:30:52,333 almost like, "Oh, I don't know what to do 745 01:30:53,458 --> 01:30:54,625 because I'm not a doctor." 746 01:30:55,125 --> 01:30:56,166 But actually, when it 747 01:30:56,166 --> 01:30:57,000 comes to prevention, 748 01:30:59,333 --> 01:31:01,708 the fundamentals are lifestyle, diet, 749 01:31:01,958 --> 01:31:05,208 environment, because this is what are the 750 01:31:05,208 --> 01:31:07,416 issues of today to 751 01:31:07,416 --> 01:31:09,000 develop the disease of today. 752 01:31:10,083 --> 01:31:12,000 Yes, you cannot do brain 753 01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:15,000 surgery, but that's acute care. 754 01:31:15,291 --> 01:31:16,375 You don't need that, right? 755 01:31:17,208 --> 01:31:18,666 Well, I hope we don't need that. 756 01:31:20,666 --> 01:31:23,625 And this is where the idea of VITAX came, 757 01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:31,458 is to create a system of our time where 758 01:31:31,458 --> 01:31:35,500 with all the data we collect based on 759 01:31:35,500 --> 01:31:38,875 someone's goals, how can we make 760 01:31:38,875 --> 01:31:43,000 something that is real-time and give 761 01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:47,375 nudges for you to adjust in real time and 762 01:31:47,375 --> 01:31:52,291 put you back in this road of recovery or 763 01:31:52,291 --> 01:31:56,625 actually de-aging pretty much, right? 764 01:31:56,625 --> 01:31:57,958 Because we know that all those diseases 765 01:31:57,958 --> 01:32:00,333 as well are aging-related diseases. 766 01:32:00,958 --> 01:32:06,250 So how we can do all this is about making 767 01:32:06,250 --> 01:32:08,125 you at the center of it. 768 01:32:08,875 --> 01:32:10,750 And it has to be behavioral-centric. 769 01:32:11,500 --> 01:32:12,750 But based on your data, 770 01:32:13,833 --> 01:32:15,791 that is the idea of the platform. 771 01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:17,583 And this is what we're doing now. 772 01:32:18,791 --> 01:32:21,458 And then it's to really try to develop a 773 01:32:21,458 --> 01:32:24,375 model where later, and I think we 774 01:32:24,375 --> 01:32:26,291 shouldn't underestimate how things are 775 01:32:26,291 --> 01:32:28,208 progressing very fast nowadays, 776 01:32:29,250 --> 01:32:31,041 where we want to remove 777 01:32:31,041 --> 01:32:33,333 people from their dashboard, right? 778 01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:35,208 Or things like that. 779 01:32:35,208 --> 01:32:35,750 Go outside. 780 01:32:36,333 --> 01:32:39,375 And one of the real pillar 781 01:32:39,375 --> 01:32:41,666 of longevity is communities. 782 01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:43,083 Go outside and share. 783 01:32:43,750 --> 01:32:47,500 So try to make things ambient in the 784 01:32:47,500 --> 01:32:49,500 sense that you are being monitored if 785 01:32:49,500 --> 01:32:52,416 things are going wrong and you're being 786 01:32:52,416 --> 01:32:54,833 nudged only for adjustment. 787 01:32:55,916 --> 01:32:56,708 And everything works 788 01:32:56,708 --> 01:32:59,083 as an orchestra for you. 789 01:32:59,500 --> 01:33:01,541 And that is the idea, is to create an 790 01:33:01,541 --> 01:33:06,500 ecosystem where you have an end-to-end 791 01:33:06,500 --> 01:33:08,250 system that works for 792 01:33:08,250 --> 01:33:09,208 you in the background. 793 01:33:09,833 --> 01:33:11,916 And you're being told, "Okay, you've done 794 01:33:11,916 --> 01:33:13,500 very well because this 795 01:33:13,500 --> 01:33:14,416 is your top priority. 796 01:33:14,791 --> 01:33:15,666 This is your protocol. 797 01:33:17,125 --> 01:33:18,583 And you've been doing 798 01:33:18,583 --> 01:33:19,583 this for three weeks. 799 01:33:20,041 --> 01:33:21,541 And you have, let's say for me, you have 800 01:33:21,541 --> 01:33:23,666 reduced your insulin resistance by 30% 801 01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:27,041 and decreased your chances of type 2 802 01:33:27,041 --> 01:33:29,041 diabetes by 50% and 803 01:33:29,041 --> 01:33:30,083 looking at numbers, right? 804 01:33:30,375 --> 01:33:31,958 But that means also that your biological 805 01:33:32,166 --> 01:33:35,000 age has reduced of five years in the last 806 01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:35,958 three months, right? 807 01:33:36,291 --> 01:33:39,375 And this is powerful because that is 808 01:33:39,375 --> 01:33:41,208 something that is tangible, 809 01:33:42,291 --> 01:33:45,166 that is prioritized, and that's real-time 810 01:33:45,166 --> 01:33:46,125 predictive prevention. 811 01:33:47,458 --> 01:33:50,125 Now, it's incredibly powerful information 812 01:33:50,125 --> 01:33:51,708 to have because I also think it creates a 813 01:33:51,708 --> 01:33:52,958 lot of accountability for 814 01:33:52,958 --> 01:33:54,250 the individual in question too. 815 01:33:54,708 --> 01:33:56,416 If you, it's, I mean, I suppose the 816 01:33:56,416 --> 01:33:58,375 closest thing that we have today is maybe 817 01:33:58,375 --> 01:34:02,250 a diabetic on an insulin pump or who has 818 01:34:02,250 --> 01:34:04,541 a CGM or someone who is regularly 819 01:34:04,541 --> 01:34:05,291 watching their weight. 820 01:34:05,291 --> 01:34:06,416 But if you don't have that sort of 821 01:34:06,416 --> 01:34:08,791 immediate feedback, you're not going to 822 01:34:08,791 --> 01:34:10,458 be able to course correct, are you? 823 01:34:11,291 --> 01:34:13,166 So I think from that perspective alone, 824 01:34:13,833 --> 01:34:15,541 this sort of technology is amazing. 825 01:34:16,125 --> 01:34:16,333 Yeah. 826 01:34:16,500 --> 01:34:17,500 And also, do you actually 827 01:34:17,500 --> 01:34:18,708 need this feedback, right? 828 01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:19,708 Is that for you? 829 01:34:20,708 --> 01:34:24,500 And this can be also monitored by a 830 01:34:24,500 --> 01:34:25,250 practitioner, right? 831 01:34:25,458 --> 01:34:28,125 So if things are clinical, it should 832 01:34:28,125 --> 01:34:30,666 always involve a practitioner anyway. 833 01:34:31,500 --> 01:34:31,708 Yeah. 834 01:34:31,916 --> 01:34:33,291 That's a question I have 835 01:34:33,291 --> 01:34:34,916 for you a little later on. 836 01:34:36,458 --> 01:34:38,041 Thomas, I'd love to dive a little deeper 837 01:34:38,041 --> 01:34:41,916 if that's okay into the SHG, the SHG 838 01:34:41,916 --> 01:34:42,916 framework, if that's okay. 839 01:34:43,333 --> 01:34:45,458 Now, from what I remember, it's sort of 840 01:34:45,458 --> 01:34:48,333 compromised, not compromised, are four 841 01:34:48,333 --> 01:34:50,416 pillars, mainly predictive, proactive, 842 01:34:50,416 --> 01:34:52,291 personalized, and participatory. 843 01:34:52,916 --> 01:34:55,791 Now, I know you sort of covered that to 844 01:34:55,791 --> 01:34:57,541 some extent already, but would you just 845 01:34:57,541 --> 01:35:01,458 mind running through each of these in a 846 01:35:01,458 --> 01:35:03,791 little more detail and then, yeah, maybe 847 01:35:03,791 --> 01:35:05,083 we could bring them all 848 01:35:05,083 --> 01:35:06,125 together for the audience. 849 01:35:06,750 --> 01:35:06,958 Yeah. 850 01:35:07,125 --> 01:35:11,125 So the SHG is just a name in a smart 851 01:35:11,125 --> 01:35:13,166 paper, but it's for a 852 01:35:13,166 --> 01:35:14,541 small health ecosystem. 853 01:35:16,250 --> 01:35:19,333 And the pillar really predictive is about 854 01:35:19,333 --> 01:35:24,958 using biomarker and AI to identify risks 855 01:35:24,958 --> 01:35:27,375 before symptom appear, right? 856 01:35:27,375 --> 01:35:28,791 As simple as that. 857 01:35:30,166 --> 01:35:32,541 It's a bit like, you know, if you know, 858 01:35:33,333 --> 01:35:34,666 and I'll give you a concrete example, 859 01:35:35,458 --> 01:35:38,500 you're in London, and by 860 01:35:38,500 --> 01:35:39,708 your door, you have an umbrella. 861 01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:43,500 If you look at the weather forecast, and 862 01:35:43,500 --> 01:35:47,208 it's 20% chances of rain, maybe not going 863 01:35:47,208 --> 01:35:48,166 to take that umbrella. 864 01:35:48,416 --> 01:35:50,375 If you have 50% of rain, 865 01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:52,625 you might take the umbrella. 866 01:35:52,625 --> 01:35:54,791 If it's 80% of rain or more, you're going 867 01:35:54,791 --> 01:35:56,208 to take the umbrella and the rain cold. 868 01:35:57,458 --> 01:35:58,208 This is how we should 869 01:35:58,208 --> 01:35:59,916 approach our health, I think. 870 01:36:00,208 --> 01:36:03,375 And this is what is right 871 01:36:03,375 --> 01:36:09,250 now my most important priority. 872 01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:14,250 So what is my priority for me to not age 873 01:36:14,250 --> 01:36:17,750 quicker than my chronological age and 874 01:36:17,750 --> 01:36:20,541 actually decrease that, right? 875 01:36:20,708 --> 01:36:23,416 So decrease my pace of aging, let's say, 876 01:36:24,958 --> 01:36:29,000 by addressing one of my most important, 877 01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:32,333 you know, things that I need to do. 878 01:36:32,333 --> 01:36:33,458 So it can be everything. 879 01:36:33,708 --> 01:36:35,000 Let's take again, insulin 880 01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:36,583 sensitivity, inflammation. 881 01:36:38,291 --> 01:36:40,000 Those are very important 882 01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:41,916 things, stress management, right? 883 01:36:42,166 --> 01:36:43,083 Was all very common. 884 01:36:45,458 --> 01:36:49,500 And what can I do right now to prevent 885 01:36:49,500 --> 01:36:52,625 this to happen with those biomarkers and 886 01:36:52,625 --> 01:36:55,625 my symptoms, and potentially even, you 887 01:36:55,625 --> 01:36:57,500 know, if you can applaud those things or 888 01:36:57,500 --> 01:36:59,041 those data, a lot of people 889 01:36:59,041 --> 01:37:01,125 are wearing wearables nowadays. 890 01:37:03,041 --> 01:37:05,541 And how can you make it proactive, right? 891 01:37:05,750 --> 01:37:08,333 So, proactive in a sense that the system 892 01:37:08,333 --> 01:37:14,291 help you, guide you on your journey by 893 01:37:14,291 --> 01:37:16,500 giving you little nudges. 894 01:37:17,541 --> 01:37:19,125 You know, if you're very stressed and 895 01:37:19,125 --> 01:37:25,333 you're low in magnesium and your cortisol 896 01:37:25,333 --> 01:37:28,500 is very high, hey, don't forget your 897 01:37:28,500 --> 01:37:31,166 magnesium tonight, or, you know, what 898 01:37:31,166 --> 01:37:35,375 about doing a little two minute breathing 899 01:37:35,375 --> 01:37:37,625 exercise in the middle of the day, right? 900 01:37:37,625 --> 01:37:39,083 Because your cortisol is 901 01:37:39,083 --> 01:37:41,958 spiking or your HRT is high, right? 902 01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:45,583 So that's low, sorry. 903 01:37:46,125 --> 01:37:49,333 So your stress response is very high, so 904 01:37:49,333 --> 01:37:51,125 this is the sort of things 905 01:37:51,125 --> 01:37:52,708 that will keep you in check. 906 01:37:53,708 --> 01:37:55,458 And the more you do those things, it's 907 01:37:55,458 --> 01:37:58,833 also about creating this behavior of 908 01:37:58,833 --> 01:38:02,625 self-awareness and actually building 909 01:38:02,625 --> 01:38:04,708 habits that are relevant to you. 910 01:38:05,375 --> 01:38:07,791 And what I like about AI is we'll learn 911 01:38:07,791 --> 01:38:09,333 from you and you will 912 01:38:09,333 --> 01:38:10,416 learn from each other. 913 01:38:11,791 --> 01:38:14,000 And you can, when you talk about AI, 914 01:38:14,291 --> 01:38:15,916 we're not choosing chatty-pity, by the 915 01:38:15,916 --> 01:38:19,875 way, it's our own system. 916 01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:23,916 My co-founder, Christian Schwartz, can 917 01:38:23,916 --> 01:38:24,708 look it up on LinkedIn, 918 01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:28,875 is a top guy when it comes to AI. 919 01:38:29,958 --> 01:38:32,250 And, I mean, I've learned so much the 920 01:38:32,250 --> 01:38:34,250 last six months, which is crazy. 921 01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:36,458 But we're talking about AI machine 922 01:38:36,458 --> 01:38:38,291 learning, having our own system with 923 01:38:38,291 --> 01:38:41,333 rules and we keep on learning about you. 924 01:38:42,250 --> 01:38:44,750 And then personalized in a sense that 925 01:38:44,750 --> 01:38:46,041 based on all of those data, 926 01:38:46,375 --> 01:38:48,166 based on what you want to do, 927 01:38:49,458 --> 01:38:52,541 what can you do as a protocol based on 928 01:38:52,541 --> 01:38:53,541 your preferences, on 929 01:38:53,541 --> 01:38:54,875 your goals, your lifestyle? 930 01:38:55,375 --> 01:38:58,458 How can we actually make this as 931 01:38:58,458 --> 01:39:01,000 frictionless as possible for you? 932 01:39:01,708 --> 01:39:06,708 I like the idea of helping you, guiding 933 01:39:06,708 --> 01:39:10,166 you and trying to make it as less 934 01:39:10,166 --> 01:39:11,916 friction as possible because 935 01:39:11,916 --> 01:39:13,208 we want to simplify your life. 936 01:39:13,208 --> 01:39:14,541 We don't want to give you another thing 937 01:39:14,541 --> 01:39:15,750 to do, another thing to do. 938 01:39:16,375 --> 01:39:19,708 But when it's necessary to invite you 939 01:39:19,708 --> 01:39:22,583 into doing things and hopefully to do 940 01:39:22,583 --> 01:39:26,333 this within a community and help you to 941 01:39:26,333 --> 01:39:27,500 achieve those goals. 942 01:39:28,166 --> 01:39:30,208 And this is where participatory comes 943 01:39:30,208 --> 01:39:34,958 from, is about you being in charge. 944 01:39:35,250 --> 01:39:37,333 You probably heard a lot about 945 01:39:37,333 --> 01:39:42,791 being your CEO of your health. 946 01:39:43,958 --> 01:39:46,000 So it's a bit this way. 947 01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:47,666 It's like you can set your own goal. 948 01:39:48,125 --> 01:39:49,833 I mean, I have goals about, 949 01:39:50,458 --> 01:39:52,083 I want to limit my gray hair. 950 01:39:52,083 --> 01:39:53,666 But there's actually, when you're doing 951 01:39:53,666 --> 01:39:55,916 that, there's markers, we know, there's 952 01:39:55,916 --> 01:39:58,500 genetic, there's certain supplementation. 953 01:39:58,916 --> 01:40:00,166 So, okay, this is your goal. 954 01:40:00,166 --> 01:40:00,375 Fine. 955 01:40:00,791 --> 01:40:02,333 Your priority is this and this. 956 01:40:02,333 --> 01:40:03,500 This is what we want you to do. 957 01:40:03,500 --> 01:40:04,208 But if you want to do 958 01:40:04,208 --> 01:40:05,750 that on top, you can do that. 959 01:40:06,708 --> 01:40:09,750 And this is what you can do for it and 960 01:40:09,750 --> 01:40:11,166 see the improvements of the time. 961 01:40:12,375 --> 01:40:14,000 So yeah, this is the idea 962 01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:16,125 really of these four pillars. 963 01:40:17,208 --> 01:40:20,750 And by doing this, we are most 964 01:40:20,750 --> 01:40:22,583 importantly, reversing 965 01:40:22,583 --> 01:40:25,875 the trend from a reactive, 966 01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:31,333 a little too late model to a proactive 967 01:40:32,166 --> 01:40:35,708 take things early on, learn, implement, 968 01:40:36,333 --> 01:40:38,625 and make the changes that counts to 969 01:40:38,625 --> 01:40:40,833 actually have a big impact in the long 970 01:40:40,833 --> 01:40:43,875 term, in both social impact, individual 971 01:40:43,875 --> 01:40:48,166 impact, and the economy even, because if 972 01:40:48,166 --> 01:40:51,208 we don't change anything now, it's a 47 973 01:40:51,208 --> 01:40:56,125 trillion dollar debt that 974 01:40:56,125 --> 01:40:57,166 we have with the healthcare. 975 01:40:57,583 --> 01:40:58,708 It's collapsing everywhere. 976 01:40:59,000 --> 01:40:59,791 It's not sustainable. 977 01:41:00,208 --> 01:41:01,166 We have to do something. 978 01:41:03,250 --> 01:41:05,833 And unfortunately, why now is still not 979 01:41:05,833 --> 01:41:07,916 the top emergency on 980 01:41:07,916 --> 01:41:10,583 most government agenda. 981 01:41:11,125 --> 01:41:12,791 It has to start with us. 982 01:41:12,791 --> 01:41:14,000 If it starts with us, 983 01:41:14,708 --> 01:41:15,833 legislation will follow. 984 01:41:17,083 --> 01:41:17,583 Oh, definitely. 985 01:41:18,041 --> 01:41:21,500 And I think that, I still think that if 986 01:41:21,500 --> 01:41:23,541 you, if anyone ultimately wanted to 987 01:41:23,541 --> 01:41:25,666 change the world and they sort of came to 988 01:41:25,666 --> 01:41:27,375 sort of global power, I think the one 989 01:41:27,375 --> 01:41:29,958 thing that would change the world faster 990 01:41:29,958 --> 01:41:32,041 than anything else would be to focus on 991 01:41:32,041 --> 01:41:34,458 healthcare and then focus on people being 992 01:41:34,458 --> 01:41:36,750 sound metabolic health. 993 01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:39,041 Because when you improve health, you 994 01:41:39,041 --> 01:41:40,583 improve psychological outcomes, you 995 01:41:40,583 --> 01:41:43,541 improve an individual's ability to create 996 01:41:43,541 --> 01:41:46,500 wealth, to improve their financial state. 997 01:41:46,750 --> 01:41:48,541 And it just has that trickle down effect. 998 01:41:48,875 --> 01:41:50,750 But the moment you're sort of stuck in 999 01:41:50,750 --> 01:41:52,000 this state of ill health as an 1000 01:41:52,000 --> 01:41:54,708 individual, as a society, everything else 1001 01:41:54,708 --> 01:41:56,000 just collapses 1002 01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:58,416 subsequently and as a result of that. 1003 01:41:58,791 --> 01:42:01,416 So I think, yeah, I can only praise you 1004 01:42:01,416 --> 01:42:03,916 that this project is incredible and I 1005 01:42:03,916 --> 01:42:05,750 really look forward to seeing it develop. 1006 01:42:07,416 --> 01:42:09,291 Thomas, I'd love to go take another step 1007 01:42:09,291 --> 01:42:11,750 back if that's okay and chat about the 1008 01:42:11,750 --> 01:42:13,583 e-code, the sort of system again from 1009 01:42:13,583 --> 01:42:15,666 maybe from a product or from 1010 01:42:15,666 --> 01:42:17,500 a sort of a wearable hardware 1011 01:42:18,625 --> 01:42:19,375 side of things. 1012 01:42:20,750 --> 01:42:25,583 Now, I imagine there'll be some buy-in in 1013 01:42:25,583 --> 01:42:28,500 terms of hardware that's needed. 1014 01:42:29,750 --> 01:42:31,083 Things like your wearables, 1015 01:42:31,083 --> 01:42:33,041 your devices, things like that. 1016 01:42:33,791 --> 01:42:36,375 Now, a few years ago, I don't, I wouldn't 1017 01:42:36,375 --> 01:42:37,958 have foreseen this to be an issue because 1018 01:42:37,958 --> 01:42:40,333 you bought something like an auto ring or 1019 01:42:40,333 --> 01:42:43,458 your Woot band and that was it. 1020 01:42:43,958 --> 01:42:46,250 And you just used it and you 1021 01:42:46,250 --> 01:42:47,333 got the data that you needed. 1022 01:42:48,041 --> 01:42:49,625 Now, everything is on 1023 01:42:49,625 --> 01:42:50,541 a subscription model. 1024 01:42:51,458 --> 01:42:52,833 So you're not necessarily only just 1025 01:42:52,833 --> 01:42:54,791 buying the product, you're obviously 1026 01:42:54,791 --> 01:42:57,000 having to pay for its use monthly. 1027 01:42:58,041 --> 01:43:00,500 Obviously, from a business standpoint, 1028 01:43:01,125 --> 01:43:03,541 from an individual, for individual 1029 01:43:03,541 --> 01:43:05,375 companies, that makes a lot of sense. 1030 01:43:05,375 --> 01:43:07,708 That's a great way of creating recurrent 1031 01:43:07,708 --> 01:43:09,291 revenue for your brand. 1032 01:43:09,500 --> 01:43:10,833 But obviously, for the average 1033 01:43:10,833 --> 01:43:12,833 individuals, those bills 1034 01:43:12,833 --> 01:43:15,000 all are going to add up. 1035 01:43:15,500 --> 01:43:18,291 What do you feel about this idea in 1036 01:43:18,291 --> 01:43:20,125 general within the health space? 1037 01:43:20,125 --> 01:43:21,500 And obviously, that's a speculative. 1038 01:43:21,791 --> 01:43:23,416 And maybe to add to 1039 01:43:23,416 --> 01:43:25,041 that, what do you think, 1040 01:43:26,083 --> 01:43:29,250 again, speculatively is a good sort of 1041 01:43:29,250 --> 01:43:33,250 baseline point of admission to in terms 1042 01:43:33,250 --> 01:43:35,583 of wearable tech that individuals should 1043 01:43:35,583 --> 01:43:38,375 be looking to utilize or acquire when 1044 01:43:38,375 --> 01:43:40,041 trying to make the most 1045 01:43:40,041 --> 01:43:41,333 of a platform like VTX? 1046 01:43:42,250 --> 01:43:45,541 Yeah, I mean, you can go from the basic 1047 01:43:45,541 --> 01:43:47,125 to the specialized, right? 1048 01:43:47,125 --> 01:43:50,000 So obviously, if you just counting steps, 1049 01:43:50,875 --> 01:43:53,750 you know, it might not be enough for 1050 01:43:53,750 --> 01:43:55,791 certain goals you may have. 1051 01:43:56,333 --> 01:43:58,708 However, if you're getting started, 1052 01:43:59,791 --> 01:44:03,333 and metabolic health is a top priority, 1053 01:44:03,333 --> 01:44:05,291 that's already quite valuable, right? 1054 01:44:05,791 --> 01:44:07,708 Because that's very easy. 1055 01:44:07,958 --> 01:44:09,500 And that's something, okay, I need to do 1056 01:44:09,500 --> 01:44:10,958 those 10,000 steps a day. 1057 01:44:11,458 --> 01:44:13,500 And then on top of the nutrition and 1058 01:44:13,500 --> 01:44:16,041 rubber, and that's already making a 1059 01:44:16,041 --> 01:44:18,458 massive change enough to potentially 1060 01:44:18,458 --> 01:44:19,708 prevent things, right? 1061 01:44:20,333 --> 01:44:24,458 Now, if you want to be specialized, and 1062 01:44:24,458 --> 01:44:26,500 you go very targeted, and you're like a 1063 01:44:26,500 --> 01:44:29,500 biohacker, and yeah, you want to have 1064 01:44:29,500 --> 01:44:31,958 more data, the more data is to debate up 1065 01:44:31,958 --> 01:44:34,916 to get a clearer, more defined, more 1066 01:44:34,916 --> 01:44:36,500 hyper personalized picture. 1067 01:44:37,958 --> 01:44:40,000 But let's do thing here. 1068 01:44:40,375 --> 01:44:41,541 The first thing is, 1069 01:44:42,958 --> 01:44:45,166 whatever data you have, you may have, if 1070 01:44:45,166 --> 01:44:46,375 you carry a phone like this, 1071 01:44:46,375 --> 01:44:47,666 you already have Apple Health. 1072 01:44:48,833 --> 01:44:51,500 And a lot already is 1073 01:44:51,500 --> 01:44:52,583 being tracked, right? 1074 01:44:54,791 --> 01:44:57,916 And what are the like the idea of is to 1075 01:44:57,916 --> 01:45:01,375 create universal upload of data. 1076 01:45:01,625 --> 01:45:04,708 So something for sure, we are doing on 1077 01:45:04,708 --> 01:45:07,583 this platform is allowing people to 1078 01:45:07,583 --> 01:45:09,833 upload their data for free, whatever data 1079 01:45:09,833 --> 01:45:12,750 they have, and to get 1080 01:45:12,750 --> 01:45:14,250 already some insights, 1081 01:45:15,583 --> 01:45:18,958 preferences, goals, and everything sort 1082 01:45:18,958 --> 01:45:21,291 of already will make 1083 01:45:21,291 --> 01:45:23,125 sense to for an individual. 1084 01:45:25,166 --> 01:45:25,500 Now, 1085 01:45:26,583 --> 01:45:31,083 the second thing is, the amazing thing 1086 01:45:31,083 --> 01:45:34,000 about AI and machine learning, and the 1087 01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:35,958 more it develops, the 1088 01:45:35,958 --> 01:45:38,791 better it becomes at predicting, 1089 01:45:40,041 --> 01:45:44,208 and making assumptions based on your 1090 01:45:44,208 --> 01:45:46,166 lifestyle, your diet, your environment. 1091 01:45:46,625 --> 01:45:49,166 So what something that AI is amazing at 1092 01:45:49,166 --> 01:45:51,333 is that looking at all those data, 1093 01:45:52,583 --> 01:45:55,500 and understanding which one are relevant 1094 01:45:55,500 --> 01:45:56,708 based on your goals, your 1095 01:45:56,708 --> 01:45:57,875 preferences, your symptoms. 1096 01:45:58,875 --> 01:46:00,000 And then suddenly, you 1097 01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:01,666 don't have 100 things to track. 1098 01:46:01,666 --> 01:46:03,416 So then maybe we can recommend you this 1099 01:46:03,416 --> 01:46:04,958 is the best thing for you to track. 1100 01:46:04,958 --> 01:46:08,083 You don't have to have 20 devices, right? 1101 01:46:08,625 --> 01:46:10,291 It can just be one for now. 1102 01:46:11,125 --> 01:46:12,416 And then once you have learned the 1103 01:46:12,416 --> 01:46:15,250 habits, maybe yes, now, because you have 1104 01:46:15,250 --> 01:46:17,041 changed this, and you have lost a lot of 1105 01:46:17,041 --> 01:46:18,333 weight, and you love training, 1106 01:46:19,416 --> 01:46:20,833 and you want to increase your value to 1107 01:46:20,833 --> 01:46:22,083 max, because you got hooked 1108 01:46:22,083 --> 01:46:23,333 by the whole thing of training. 1109 01:46:24,541 --> 01:46:25,875 Yeah, get to boot back, why not? 1110 01:46:27,291 --> 01:46:29,000 This, there's another thing, actually. 1111 01:46:30,125 --> 01:46:33,541 But what about if all of those data, 1112 01:46:33,833 --> 01:46:36,041 which by the way, something that is very 1113 01:46:36,041 --> 01:46:39,166 close to my heart is data ownership, full 1114 01:46:39,166 --> 01:46:40,333 data ownership means 1115 01:46:40,333 --> 01:46:42,375 your data remain your data. 1116 01:46:43,125 --> 01:46:45,916 And you should be able to opt in or opt 1117 01:46:45,916 --> 01:46:47,416 out to share those data. 1118 01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:49,500 But let's say you're opting to share 1119 01:46:49,500 --> 01:46:52,166 those data, those data have value. 1120 01:46:53,125 --> 01:46:55,333 And the value should be going back to 1121 01:46:55,333 --> 01:46:58,625 you, not to, and this is why let's not 1122 01:46:58,625 --> 01:47:01,375 talk about the two, three and me. 1123 01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:06,416 But this model didn't work probably 1124 01:47:06,416 --> 01:47:09,708 because basically take data off someone 1125 01:47:09,708 --> 01:47:10,916 and you make money out of it. 1126 01:47:11,125 --> 01:47:13,250 This is the old school way of doing it. 1127 01:47:13,250 --> 01:47:14,791 And I think we need to have a lot more 1128 01:47:14,833 --> 01:47:17,625 sustainable approach where you have your 1129 01:47:17,625 --> 01:47:19,125 own data, it's your 1130 01:47:19,125 --> 01:47:21,166 health data, you own them. 1131 01:47:21,625 --> 01:47:23,291 And if you wish to share them, 1132 01:47:23,291 --> 01:47:24,625 you should be rewarded for it. 1133 01:47:25,041 --> 01:47:26,583 And maybe you should be rewarded by 1134 01:47:26,583 --> 01:47:30,083 discounts or even freebies of this type 1135 01:47:30,083 --> 01:47:33,250 of wearables and have the one that you 1136 01:47:33,250 --> 01:47:37,583 need and you want based on your goal, 1137 01:47:37,583 --> 01:47:39,291 your preferences, and 1138 01:47:39,291 --> 01:47:40,708 also your health symptoms. 1139 01:47:41,500 --> 01:47:43,458 So there is ways of doing it. 1140 01:47:43,875 --> 01:47:45,291 I'm not saying we're doing it now, 1141 01:47:46,500 --> 01:47:46,875 maybe. 1142 01:47:47,791 --> 01:47:50,916 But it's important to look at things 1143 01:47:50,916 --> 01:47:54,583 first of how, where the trends are going, 1144 01:47:55,291 --> 01:47:58,541 and what can we do with what we have now 1145 01:47:58,541 --> 01:48:00,250 to make those things 1146 01:48:00,250 --> 01:48:01,166 a lot more accessible. 1147 01:48:02,250 --> 01:48:02,750 Yeah, definitely. 1148 01:48:03,208 --> 01:48:04,458 I'm still very analog. 1149 01:48:04,708 --> 01:48:08,000 I find that for most people and the 1150 01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:10,541 clients that I do work with things like, 1151 01:48:10,541 --> 01:48:13,333 for me, I think a CGM, maybe a digital 1152 01:48:13,333 --> 01:48:16,000 BEP cuff, and then occasionally tracking 1153 01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:20,500 HRV are probably the tools in an analog 1154 01:48:20,500 --> 01:48:23,041 capacity, of course, that you can sort of 1155 01:48:23,041 --> 01:48:25,958 glean the most information from, purely 1156 01:48:25,958 --> 01:48:27,750 from just a metabolic health standpoint. 1157 01:48:28,958 --> 01:48:31,375 And I think those are, for me, would 1158 01:48:31,375 --> 01:48:33,916 probably be if somebody really wants to 1159 01:48:33,916 --> 01:48:35,791 start investigating their health beyond 1160 01:48:35,791 --> 01:48:37,416 the sort of the basics or the core key 1161 01:48:37,416 --> 01:48:39,083 blood work, those are 1162 01:48:39,083 --> 01:48:41,875 great tools to start off with. 1163 01:48:42,375 --> 01:48:44,458 Thomas, I'd love to get back to this 1164 01:48:44,458 --> 01:48:47,125 idea, sort of sovereignty and data 1165 01:48:47,125 --> 01:48:48,708 ownership again, and all of that. 1166 01:48:48,708 --> 01:48:49,875 It was something I was going to ask you 1167 01:48:49,875 --> 01:48:51,291 later on, but I think this is a great 1168 01:48:51,291 --> 01:48:53,750 time to discuss the point. 1169 01:48:55,333 --> 01:48:59,041 Now, until recently, sort of companies 1170 01:48:59,041 --> 01:49:01,416 owning my data never actually bothered me 1171 01:49:01,416 --> 01:49:03,208 because I didn't actually sort of see it 1172 01:49:03,208 --> 01:49:04,416 as being a major issue. 1173 01:49:05,166 --> 01:49:07,625 Yeah, I've got my own 23andMe data, and 1174 01:49:07,625 --> 01:49:09,375 I've had 10 emails telling me that 1175 01:49:09,375 --> 01:49:11,000 somebody else has stolen it at 1176 01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:12,333 least once every other month. 1177 01:49:12,708 --> 01:49:14,625 And I thought, okay, so what? 1178 01:49:15,250 --> 01:49:16,541 Somebody knows my genetics. 1179 01:49:16,541 --> 01:49:19,041 But I've since sort of started to learn 1180 01:49:19,041 --> 01:49:21,875 and wake up to the fact, and maybe just 1181 01:49:21,875 --> 01:49:25,375 grow up and be a little less naive, that 1182 01:49:25,375 --> 01:49:28,541 there is really an issue with companies 1183 01:49:28,541 --> 01:49:30,291 owning your data, and they can start to 1184 01:49:30,291 --> 01:49:33,416 sort of impact the way that you're 1185 01:49:33,416 --> 01:49:36,541 insured, for example, healthcare, etc. 1186 01:49:37,000 --> 01:49:39,791 Would you be able to sort of expand upon 1187 01:49:39,791 --> 01:49:43,000 that and why, as a society, we should 1188 01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:45,208 actually be so protective of our data, 1189 01:49:45,208 --> 01:49:46,208 especially our health data? 1190 01:49:46,583 --> 01:49:47,375 I think this 1191 01:49:48,708 --> 01:49:50,291 is your health data. 1192 01:49:50,666 --> 01:49:53,750 Again, if we can secure them in a 1193 01:49:53,750 --> 01:49:56,833 encrypted way, let's say, for you, 1194 01:49:58,333 --> 01:50:02,041 and nobody has access to them, only if 1195 01:50:02,041 --> 01:50:03,750 you want to share them, right? 1196 01:50:04,125 --> 01:50:05,583 I think it should be the way forward. 1197 01:50:05,583 --> 01:50:06,416 And actually, this should 1198 01:50:06,416 --> 01:50:08,416 be supported by legislation. 1199 01:50:10,250 --> 01:50:11,958 There's different reasons. 1200 01:50:12,291 --> 01:50:13,666 Obviously, we don't want to go into the 1201 01:50:13,666 --> 01:50:17,041 utopian version of you have your DNA data 1202 01:50:17,041 --> 01:50:20,250 leaked in someday, in a far, far utopian 1203 01:50:20,250 --> 01:50:21,750 future, someone will make a 1204 01:50:21,750 --> 01:50:24,375 personalized bio weapon for you. 1205 01:50:24,416 --> 01:50:30,333 But at least looking at your data, and 1206 01:50:30,333 --> 01:50:32,625 yes, having an insurance, like, you've 1207 01:50:32,625 --> 01:50:36,750 got high risks of cancer, let's say, 1208 01:50:37,291 --> 01:50:38,833 because of this gene. 1209 01:50:39,375 --> 01:50:41,833 First thing is false, like in the sense 1210 01:50:41,833 --> 01:50:44,666 that you can have a high risk variant of 1211 01:50:44,666 --> 01:50:47,541 something, let's say, apogee form, which 1212 01:50:47,541 --> 01:50:50,500 is related to Alzheimer, but it doesn't 1213 01:50:50,500 --> 01:50:51,375 necessarily mean you will 1214 01:50:51,375 --> 01:50:52,583 develop the disease, right? 1215 01:50:53,166 --> 01:50:55,375 It's the same with BRCA1 and BRCA2. 1216 01:50:55,875 --> 01:50:56,291 Actually, 1217 01:50:58,250 --> 01:51:02,250 breast cancer is not the gene, it's your 1218 01:51:02,250 --> 01:51:04,958 lifestyle, your diet, your environment, 1219 01:51:05,625 --> 01:51:08,958 the epigenetics that will amplify the 1220 01:51:08,958 --> 01:51:10,208 expression of that gene. 1221 01:51:10,208 --> 01:51:12,000 So yes, if you have this gene and you 1222 01:51:12,000 --> 01:51:16,500 drink every day, and you're stressed, and 1223 01:51:16,500 --> 01:51:19,458 you're very low in vitamin 1224 01:51:19,458 --> 01:51:21,375 D, that would be a problem. 1225 01:51:21,916 --> 01:51:23,625 But if you do all the right things, it 1226 01:51:23,625 --> 01:51:24,625 won't be a problem at all. 1227 01:51:25,458 --> 01:51:28,916 So that's the first thing is to make sure 1228 01:51:28,916 --> 01:51:32,625 that there is also accuracy in how those 1229 01:51:32,625 --> 01:51:33,833 institutions are thinking. 1230 01:51:34,333 --> 01:51:38,750 And the second thing is, basically not 1231 01:51:38,750 --> 01:51:40,208 have access to those 1232 01:51:40,208 --> 01:51:42,375 data without your content. 1233 01:51:42,833 --> 01:51:45,375 But actually, if you want to share them, 1234 01:51:45,375 --> 01:51:47,125 because you're doing the right thing, you 1235 01:51:47,125 --> 01:51:49,500 should rip off the benefits of having a 1236 01:51:49,500 --> 01:51:53,083 premium at a discount. 1237 01:51:54,750 --> 01:51:58,708 And it's also giving the opportunity to 1238 01:51:58,708 --> 01:52:03,500 solve a problem like cohort compiling for 1239 01:52:03,500 --> 01:52:04,791 research, for example. 1240 01:52:06,458 --> 01:52:07,458 Let's say the platform like 1241 01:52:07,458 --> 01:52:09,625 Ondos is over 100,000 users. 1242 01:52:11,000 --> 01:52:14,333 And it's interesting to see that you can 1243 01:52:14,333 --> 01:52:19,166 potentially, people have their data 1244 01:52:19,208 --> 01:52:22,916 there, and it's all secure, and Ondos 1245 01:52:22,916 --> 01:52:23,958 will never share data. 1246 01:52:24,541 --> 01:52:28,166 But if you were to have a system that 1247 01:52:29,250 --> 01:52:30,916 allows you to switch on or switch off 1248 01:52:30,916 --> 01:52:33,458 your data access to a research institute, 1249 01:52:34,083 --> 01:52:35,833 you could be part of a cohort. 1250 01:52:36,583 --> 01:52:39,333 And this is Imperial College, you want to 1251 01:52:39,333 --> 01:52:41,833 do a study on this, and your genes is 1252 01:52:42,166 --> 01:52:44,166 matching, you are the right 1253 01:52:44,166 --> 01:52:45,666 age bracket, blah, blah, blah. 1254 01:52:45,666 --> 01:52:48,791 And you could get free testing and plus 1255 01:52:48,791 --> 01:52:50,708 potentially be paid. 1256 01:52:52,000 --> 01:52:54,583 And for Imperial College, trying to 1257 01:52:54,583 --> 01:52:57,083 advance something and cover something 1258 01:52:57,083 --> 01:52:58,000 that could help the whole 1259 01:52:58,000 --> 01:53:00,000 population, that is beneficial. 1260 01:53:00,500 --> 01:53:03,125 So it's not the same angle of trying to 1261 01:53:03,125 --> 01:53:05,083 sell a data set to pharma 1262 01:53:05,083 --> 01:53:06,708 to make a single drug use. 1263 01:53:07,250 --> 01:53:08,000 Let's not go there. 1264 01:53:08,000 --> 01:53:11,708 But it's a very different ecosystem here. 1265 01:53:12,750 --> 01:53:16,708 And I think this is where we should, the 1266 01:53:16,708 --> 01:53:19,125 legislation should look at things and 1267 01:53:19,125 --> 01:53:20,458 say, okay, this should be allowed. 1268 01:53:21,416 --> 01:53:22,750 And this is how it should be. 1269 01:53:23,500 --> 01:53:26,208 And this should not be, right? 1270 01:53:26,208 --> 01:53:29,500 Because that's just pure for profits. 1271 01:53:30,541 --> 01:53:33,916 So this is my stand on it anyway. 1272 01:53:35,291 --> 01:53:37,541 And probably, you know, some investor 1273 01:53:37,541 --> 01:53:39,333 would probably not like that. 1274 01:53:39,625 --> 01:53:43,458 But I think this is where it's going. 70% 1275 01:53:43,833 --> 01:53:46,583 of people now are happy to share the data 1276 01:53:46,583 --> 01:53:48,666 for insight, but they're not happy to 1277 01:53:48,666 --> 01:53:50,750 share their data if they know they're 1278 01:53:50,750 --> 01:53:52,041 going to be used for profit. 1279 01:53:52,791 --> 01:53:56,875 And there is a real awakening about this. 1280 01:53:57,166 --> 01:53:58,666 And it's normal, I believe. 1281 01:53:59,833 --> 01:54:01,333 Yeah, no, I think it is. 1282 01:54:01,333 --> 01:54:03,958 It's starting to sort of develop in 1283 01:54:03,958 --> 01:54:07,500 society as to why people's data is not 1284 01:54:07,500 --> 01:54:09,958 only important, but it's a value to them. 1285 01:54:09,958 --> 01:54:14,500 It's not to just binary information on 1286 01:54:14,500 --> 01:54:16,291 the internet that someone is just going 1287 01:54:16,291 --> 01:54:18,666 to utilize to sort of take email address 1288 01:54:18,666 --> 01:54:20,291 and sort of send you an offer for the 1289 01:54:20,291 --> 01:54:23,166 latest, I don't know, TV ad, whatever. 1290 01:54:24,166 --> 01:54:25,291 It is definitely a value. 1291 01:54:28,500 --> 01:54:30,041 Thomas, I'd love to sort of pick your 1292 01:54:30,041 --> 01:54:33,291 brains about what I think about from time 1293 01:54:33,291 --> 01:54:34,375 to time, which is the 1294 01:54:34,375 --> 01:54:35,458 Wi-Fi and EMF piece. 1295 01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:37,583 Now, obviously, when we start to talk 1296 01:54:37,583 --> 01:54:39,666 about AI and technology, that's going to 1297 01:54:39,666 --> 01:54:41,208 start to sort of come to 1298 01:54:41,208 --> 01:54:42,125 the forefront a bit more. 1299 01:54:42,625 --> 01:54:43,916 Now, I'm not a physicist. 1300 01:54:44,500 --> 01:54:45,750 As I mentioned earlier, I'm a chemist. 1301 01:54:46,541 --> 01:54:47,833 I understand what these non-native 1302 01:54:47,833 --> 01:54:48,916 signals can do to the 1303 01:54:48,916 --> 01:54:50,916 body to some extent anyway. 1304 01:54:51,291 --> 01:54:53,625 And I do believe that where there's 1305 01:54:53,625 --> 01:54:54,458 smoke, there's fire. 1306 01:54:55,125 --> 01:54:58,500 Now, how much things like Wi-Fi are 1307 01:54:58,500 --> 01:55:00,291 actually detrimental to human 1308 01:55:00,291 --> 01:55:02,750 physiology is up for debate. 1309 01:55:03,250 --> 01:55:03,583 However, 1310 01:55:05,000 --> 01:55:05,833 and they're definitely 1311 01:55:05,833 --> 01:55:07,083 hard to get away from. 1312 01:55:07,708 --> 01:55:10,666 For everybody's best efforts, I mean, you 1313 01:55:10,666 --> 01:55:12,291 have 5G everywhere now, 1314 01:55:12,291 --> 01:55:13,500 whether that's an issue or not. 1315 01:55:13,500 --> 01:55:15,375 You have obviously Wi-Fi broadband and 1316 01:55:15,375 --> 01:55:16,666 now Elon Musk's 1317 01:55:16,666 --> 01:55:18,750 Starlink satellite's going up. 1318 01:55:18,750 --> 01:55:20,958 So we're constantly surrounded by that 1319 01:55:20,958 --> 01:55:22,791 sort of Wi-Fi exposure. 1320 01:55:23,666 --> 01:55:28,833 What do you think of this in terms of, I 1321 01:55:28,833 --> 01:55:32,583 suppose, mixing healthcare, AI together? 1322 01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:35,208 Do you think this is broadly speaking an 1323 01:55:35,208 --> 01:55:37,916 issue, or do you feel sort of this 1324 01:55:37,916 --> 01:55:40,458 electromagnetic hypersensitivity piece is 1325 01:55:40,458 --> 01:55:41,583 a bit blown out of proportion? 1326 01:55:44,500 --> 01:55:46,250 Well, blown out of proportion, it depends 1327 01:55:46,250 --> 01:55:47,500 where you stand on it. 1328 01:55:47,875 --> 01:55:50,208 But there is definitely an impact, right? 1329 01:55:50,500 --> 01:55:52,125 It's for sure. 1330 01:55:54,000 --> 01:55:57,708 And we are electric currents after all. 1331 01:55:58,083 --> 01:56:00,500 So it definitely has an impact on us. 1332 01:56:02,083 --> 01:56:03,666 I would definitely not leave somewhere 1333 01:56:03,666 --> 01:56:05,416 where there is those 5G antenna. 1334 01:56:06,208 --> 01:56:07,375 And we know we studied. 1335 01:56:07,875 --> 01:56:11,500 It's as many papers, it's various impact 1336 01:56:11,500 --> 01:56:12,500 on your health, on your 1337 01:56:12,500 --> 01:56:14,625 sleep, on a lot of things. 1338 01:56:15,416 --> 01:56:18,958 So I guess, what is the solution there? 1339 01:56:20,041 --> 01:56:22,541 And I don't have the solution, but I 1340 01:56:22,541 --> 01:56:25,583 would definitely think that with the 1341 01:56:25,583 --> 01:56:28,708 progress being made and it's things we 1342 01:56:28,708 --> 01:56:31,000 need to adapt and to 1343 01:56:31,000 --> 01:56:33,458 potentially find solution for. 1344 01:56:34,833 --> 01:56:40,250 We are already making biodiesel, why not 1345 01:56:40,250 --> 01:56:44,000 one day, sort of making a hub find 1346 01:56:44,000 --> 01:56:48,083 solution for sort of 1347 01:56:48,083 --> 01:56:50,750 emission free internet, right? 1348 01:56:50,750 --> 01:56:53,916 So I don't think it's stupid of thinking 1349 01:56:53,916 --> 01:56:57,041 that because, well, things are 1350 01:56:57,041 --> 01:56:58,041 progressing very fast. 1351 01:56:58,041 --> 01:57:00,375 And there's always some innovation that's 1352 01:57:00,375 --> 01:57:01,791 like, wow, blow your mind, 1353 01:57:02,958 --> 01:57:04,666 especially, you know, probably in two, 1354 01:57:04,666 --> 01:57:06,291 three years time, AI might find a 1355 01:57:06,291 --> 01:57:10,875 solution for us, not for us, but from us, 1356 01:57:11,125 --> 01:57:13,000 but maybe AI itself. 1357 01:57:13,625 --> 01:57:16,500 So maybe I'm not hyper optimistic. 1358 01:57:17,000 --> 01:57:17,500 I'm a founder. 1359 01:57:17,791 --> 01:57:19,958 So maybe it's a character trait 1360 01:57:21,208 --> 01:57:24,833 of being very optimistic on this, but I 1361 01:57:24,833 --> 01:57:29,166 hope we will find a solution that because 1362 01:57:29,166 --> 01:57:33,708 using AI and as a tool will 1363 01:57:33,708 --> 01:57:35,875 definitely improve our life. 1364 01:57:37,500 --> 01:57:38,541 And we obviously need 1365 01:57:38,541 --> 01:57:40,125 a connection for that. 1366 01:57:40,666 --> 01:57:42,541 And yeah, just to see how, 1367 01:57:42,541 --> 01:57:43,375 what are the alternatives. 1368 01:57:43,666 --> 01:57:46,583 So I'm not an expert on this particular 1369 01:57:46,583 --> 01:57:48,750 field, but I'm quite hopeful 1370 01:57:48,750 --> 01:57:50,083 that we will find solution. 1371 01:57:51,083 --> 01:57:53,500 And at least what we can do now again is 1372 01:57:53,500 --> 01:57:56,791 to track the effects on us and to 1373 01:57:56,791 --> 01:57:57,833 understand this more. 1374 01:57:58,666 --> 01:58:00,708 And it's maybe a first step to understand 1375 01:58:00,708 --> 01:58:04,583 it more, to really raise this as not a 1376 01:58:04,583 --> 01:58:07,833 hoax, but as actually not a conspiracy 1377 01:58:07,833 --> 01:58:09,791 theory, but actually as a fact. 1378 01:58:10,375 --> 01:58:12,500 Now that it is a fact, validated as a 1379 01:58:12,500 --> 01:58:13,916 fact, what can we do with it? 1380 01:58:14,291 --> 01:58:15,500 What is the first step? 1381 01:58:16,375 --> 01:58:18,625 Because something that we realize is 1382 01:58:18,625 --> 01:58:20,041 we're sort of running out of 1383 01:58:20,041 --> 01:58:21,375 conspiracy theory nowadays. 1384 01:58:22,791 --> 01:58:23,000 So yeah. 1385 01:58:23,791 --> 01:58:24,250 Yeah. 1386 01:58:24,583 --> 01:58:25,625 No, thank you for that. 1387 01:58:25,625 --> 01:58:27,541 It's great to get your opinion there. 1388 01:58:28,250 --> 01:58:30,208 And for anyone who is interested in the 1389 01:58:30,208 --> 01:58:32,833 wifi piece, the non-native EMF field 1390 01:58:32,833 --> 01:58:34,708 piece, I invite you to listen to the 1391 01:58:34,708 --> 01:58:36,833 podcast I did recently with Tristan 1392 01:58:36,833 --> 01:58:39,583 Scott, who really is, 1393 01:58:39,583 --> 01:58:40,708 he's an electrical engineer. 1394 01:58:40,708 --> 01:58:41,833 I'm sure you're familiar with him. 1395 01:58:42,166 --> 01:58:44,166 He's helping to run 1396 01:58:44,166 --> 01:58:45,500 daylight in future at the moment. 1397 01:58:47,333 --> 01:58:49,458 Of interest, I think is the fact that I 1398 01:58:49,458 --> 01:58:50,750 don't know if you've heard of LiFi. 1399 01:58:51,541 --> 01:58:54,708 They are a web, they're obviously an EMF, 1400 01:58:54,708 --> 01:58:58,750 an EMF based protocol that utilizes light 1401 01:58:58,750 --> 01:59:01,333 to transmit information 1402 01:59:01,333 --> 01:59:07,583 instead of wifi radiation. 1403 01:59:09,250 --> 01:59:10,916 But that is, yeah, that was something 1404 01:59:10,916 --> 01:59:11,458 that will hopefully 1405 01:59:11,500 --> 01:59:13,875 develop as time progresses. 1406 01:59:16,333 --> 01:59:16,541 Okay. 1407 01:59:16,541 --> 01:59:19,958 So Thomas, another question about VTX. 1408 01:59:21,291 --> 01:59:23,875 The way I said it's definitely at the 1409 01:59:23,875 --> 01:59:27,875 moment, it's aimed at, well, it is. 1410 01:59:27,875 --> 01:59:31,375 It's aimed at helping people to maintain 1411 01:59:31,375 --> 01:59:34,000 their health or maybe people with sort of 1412 01:59:34,000 --> 01:59:35,916 mild health challenges 1413 01:59:35,916 --> 01:59:37,000 reclaim their health. 1414 01:59:37,458 --> 01:59:41,166 But I think what I'm interested in seeing 1415 01:59:41,166 --> 01:59:43,083 the tech, where I'm interested in seeing 1416 01:59:43,083 --> 01:59:44,708 the technology go would be where, 1417 01:59:45,708 --> 01:59:47,958 would it be able to help us say issues 1418 01:59:47,958 --> 01:59:50,000 like, or do you have any plans to 1419 01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:51,041 integrate it into more 1420 01:59:51,041 --> 01:59:52,250 sort of acute conditions? 1421 01:59:52,250 --> 01:59:53,833 So do your autoimmune illness conditions, 1422 01:59:54,083 --> 01:59:56,375 your things like your post viral 1423 01:59:56,375 --> 01:59:58,541 fatigues, complex metabolic issues. 1424 01:59:59,333 --> 02:00:01,625 Do you have any plans in regard to 1425 02:00:01,916 --> 02:00:03,625 getting the technology to that point? 1426 02:00:03,625 --> 02:00:05,833 Or is your aim at this 1427 02:00:05,833 --> 02:00:06,958 point solely preventative? 1428 02:00:07,750 --> 02:00:08,833 Yeah, I mean, this is 1429 02:00:08,833 --> 02:00:09,916 part of prevention, right? 1430 02:00:10,041 --> 02:00:13,333 And I think is from fatigue, chronic 1431 02:00:13,333 --> 02:00:16,625 fatigue to diabetic to early, you know, 1432 02:00:16,625 --> 02:00:20,000 early sort of cancer markers, and the 1433 02:00:20,000 --> 02:00:22,375 interconnection between those different 1434 02:00:22,375 --> 02:00:25,333 things are very important. 1435 02:00:26,125 --> 02:00:28,333 So obviously, you don't want to through a 1436 02:00:28,333 --> 02:00:30,166 platform tell someone you have an high 1437 02:00:30,166 --> 02:00:31,583 risk of developing a cancer. 1438 02:00:33,791 --> 02:00:37,041 And this is why having a practitioner in 1439 02:00:37,041 --> 02:00:39,291 the loop monitoring is very important. 1440 02:00:40,458 --> 02:00:44,041 And I think understanding this sort of 1441 02:00:44,041 --> 02:00:48,083 biosignals to catch all the deviation 1442 02:00:48,083 --> 02:00:54,125 before this is start of progressing is 1443 02:00:54,125 --> 02:00:55,750 definitely a goal, right? 1444 02:00:55,750 --> 02:00:59,083 So mitochondrial dysfunction in fatigue 1445 02:00:59,083 --> 02:01:01,833 is identified via genomics, 1446 02:01:01,833 --> 02:01:03,000 for example, already, right? 1447 02:01:04,500 --> 02:01:08,250 And then so you tie up the HRB, right? 1448 02:01:08,875 --> 02:01:10,208 And certain nutrient depletion. 1449 02:01:10,875 --> 02:01:14,500 And that's already a sort of cocktail 1450 02:01:14,500 --> 02:01:17,250 that can really help 1451 02:01:17,250 --> 02:01:19,791 with your chronic fatigue. 1452 02:01:20,083 --> 02:01:24,125 So what are you deficient on, you know, 1453 02:01:24,958 --> 02:01:28,666 you're suboptimal in vitamin D, you're 1454 02:01:28,666 --> 02:01:32,666 suboptimal in vitamin B12, B9, B1, 1455 02:01:33,500 --> 02:01:34,333 you're, you know, all 1456 02:01:34,333 --> 02:01:35,083 those different things. 1457 02:01:35,291 --> 02:01:36,625 And you're very stressed. 1458 02:01:38,083 --> 02:01:40,625 That's where you start and try to address 1459 02:01:40,625 --> 02:01:43,916 all those points, and see the change over 1460 02:01:43,916 --> 02:01:46,333 time and see the symptoms over time. 1461 02:01:46,333 --> 02:01:47,875 Is it still chronic fatigue now? 1462 02:01:48,416 --> 02:01:49,250 Well, actually, no, 1463 02:01:49,250 --> 02:01:50,375 I'm feeling much better. 1464 02:01:50,375 --> 02:01:51,833 I have a lot, I don't have this 1465 02:01:51,833 --> 02:01:53,208 afternoon's stop anymore. 1466 02:01:55,125 --> 02:01:57,166 And oh, maybe it's because you're, you 1467 02:01:57,166 --> 02:01:58,958 know, your your B vitamins and your 1468 02:01:58,958 --> 02:02:01,250 vitamin Ds are back to optimal ranges. 1469 02:02:01,875 --> 02:02:03,958 Because that was your protocol in the 1470 02:02:03,958 --> 02:02:05,833 last few weeks, right? 1471 02:02:05,833 --> 02:02:08,000 And you're less burnout because you're 1472 02:02:08,000 --> 02:02:10,375 implementing breath work on an everyday 1473 02:02:10,375 --> 02:02:12,041 basis, which only takes you 1474 02:02:12,041 --> 02:02:13,416 three minutes by the way, right? 1475 02:02:13,416 --> 02:02:15,583 There's very simple things to reduce 1476 02:02:15,583 --> 02:02:18,000 cortisol and remove stress, 1477 02:02:18,875 --> 02:02:20,166 which is just breath work. 1478 02:02:20,166 --> 02:02:21,583 It's just how breath, right? 1479 02:02:21,583 --> 02:02:22,500 So it's easy. 1480 02:02:23,833 --> 02:02:25,625 And there's many techniques I'm not going 1481 02:02:25,625 --> 02:02:27,375 to go through there, but it's easy. 1482 02:02:27,375 --> 02:02:27,583 You just, 1483 02:02:28,958 --> 02:02:31,375 you know, yeah, it's very easy. 1484 02:02:31,583 --> 02:02:32,583 So, yeah, definitely. 1485 02:02:33,875 --> 02:02:35,083 I hope you answered your question. 1486 02:02:35,500 --> 02:02:36,625 No, it does. 1487 02:02:36,625 --> 02:02:37,875 And you sort of, you've brought up an 1488 02:02:37,875 --> 02:02:39,875 interesting point about doctors and sort 1489 02:02:39,875 --> 02:02:40,958 of the systems working 1490 02:02:40,958 --> 02:02:41,916 alongside physicians. 1491 02:02:42,708 --> 02:02:43,625 Where do you, 1492 02:02:44,708 --> 02:02:46,625 obviously, currently you still see 1493 02:02:46,625 --> 02:02:47,750 physicians as being vital 1494 02:02:47,750 --> 02:02:49,500 to this picture as a whole. 1495 02:02:49,916 --> 02:02:51,750 But in the coming years, as you sort of 1496 02:02:51,750 --> 02:02:53,833 get to this point of AGI, and as the 1497 02:02:53,833 --> 02:02:55,750 technology was developed, do you think 1498 02:02:55,750 --> 02:02:57,916 there will still be a place for 1499 02:02:57,916 --> 02:03:00,791 physicians in this picture going forward, 1500 02:03:00,791 --> 02:03:01,833 say in the next 10 years? 1501 02:03:02,250 --> 02:03:05,333 Definitely, because, well, you have the, 1502 02:03:05,333 --> 02:03:07,000 we talked about the acute care system 1503 02:03:07,000 --> 02:03:07,916 where you're basically 1504 02:03:07,916 --> 02:03:09,291 a firefighter, right? 1505 02:03:10,583 --> 02:03:15,125 But I think doctors should see, see 1506 02:03:15,125 --> 02:03:17,416 themselves merging instead of like, oh, 1507 02:03:17,416 --> 02:03:19,958 you're the picture of health, which is 1508 02:03:19,958 --> 02:03:23,458 the answer mostly when you have a 1509 02:03:23,458 --> 02:03:24,791 condition, but, you 1510 02:03:24,791 --> 02:03:26,541 know, your bloods are normal. 1511 02:03:28,541 --> 02:03:31,208 Looking into guiding someone into 1512 02:03:31,208 --> 02:03:34,416 improving over time to remove 1513 02:03:34,416 --> 02:03:36,208 the source of those problems. 1514 02:03:36,958 --> 02:03:43,625 So I see this physician to be guiding 1515 02:03:43,625 --> 02:03:49,875 people, users to manage the complexity 1516 02:03:49,875 --> 02:03:54,666 while AI handled the routine, but it 1517 02:03:54,666 --> 02:03:55,583 needs to obviously be 1518 02:03:55,583 --> 02:03:58,208 validated by the practitioner. 1519 02:03:58,500 --> 02:04:01,583 So this protocol is relevant because the 1520 02:04:01,583 --> 02:04:04,541 AI looked at all of the data, which will 1521 02:04:04,541 --> 02:04:08,333 take probably a month to a practitioner 1522 02:04:08,333 --> 02:04:11,000 to do the Charlo Com works, if you look 1523 02:04:11,000 --> 02:04:12,125 at a lot of data, right? 1524 02:04:13,083 --> 02:04:15,333 And this is the, you know, the outcome. 1525 02:04:15,958 --> 02:04:19,500 And this is actually very interesting for 1526 02:04:19,500 --> 02:04:21,541 the practitioner because it's a summary, 1527 02:04:22,083 --> 02:04:23,458 and this is what we should do. 1528 02:04:24,458 --> 02:04:26,375 And I think we should accept more and 1529 02:04:26,375 --> 02:04:29,375 more to work this way to use with 1530 02:04:29,375 --> 02:04:33,500 technology to accept, but actually, yes, 1531 02:04:34,041 --> 02:04:36,458 there is, and it will be even more 1532 02:04:38,250 --> 02:04:39,791 better, I would say, at 1533 02:04:39,791 --> 02:04:42,083 making the right conclusion. 1534 02:04:42,083 --> 02:04:43,875 Already now in Rajuloji 1535 02:04:43,875 --> 02:04:45,166 and all those different 1536 02:04:47,291 --> 02:04:48,583 thing, we, you know, 1537 02:04:48,583 --> 02:04:49,625 AI is already better. 1538 02:04:49,625 --> 02:04:51,333 So we need to accept this. 1539 02:04:51,541 --> 02:04:55,500 That's, you know, and the IQ will be 1540 02:04:55,500 --> 02:04:59,125 around 1500 within two years, which we'll 1541 02:04:59,125 --> 02:05:00,625 never be able to do. 1542 02:05:01,250 --> 02:05:05,000 And it's a way scary, but if we use it as 1543 02:05:05,000 --> 02:05:10,041 a tool for better outcomes for the 1544 02:05:10,041 --> 02:05:11,041 physician is better. 1545 02:05:12,625 --> 02:05:15,791 And then obviously the 1546 02:05:15,791 --> 02:05:19,541 emotional touch of guiding, right? 1547 02:05:19,541 --> 02:05:20,458 So a physician 1548 02:05:22,708 --> 02:05:26,333 will help on, you know, guiding this 1549 02:05:26,333 --> 02:05:27,791 through the emotion of 1550 02:05:27,791 --> 02:05:29,083 the thing and supporting. 1551 02:05:29,750 --> 02:05:31,916 So this compassionate guidance, I would 1552 02:05:31,916 --> 02:05:33,125 say, that's not something 1553 02:05:33,125 --> 02:05:34,541 in the eye can do, right? 1554 02:05:34,541 --> 02:05:35,416 So we need this. 1555 02:05:36,333 --> 02:05:39,125 So I think the AI will 1556 02:05:39,125 --> 02:05:41,666 handle the what and when, 1557 02:05:42,833 --> 02:05:45,625 so to speak, and the doctors will indulge 1558 02:05:45,625 --> 02:05:48,291 the why and the how, right? 1559 02:05:49,291 --> 02:05:50,625 This is how I said. 1560 02:05:51,583 --> 02:05:53,500 Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. 1561 02:05:53,500 --> 02:05:55,166 And I definitely don't think physicians 1562 02:05:55,166 --> 02:05:57,208 are going away anytime soon. 1563 02:05:57,833 --> 02:06:00,875 I do think that ultimately, their 1564 02:06:00,875 --> 02:06:03,583 positions might change, sort of, as you 1565 02:06:03,583 --> 02:06:05,875 alluded to, and then they may be almost 1566 02:06:05,875 --> 02:06:07,833 more patient care coordinators maybe 1567 02:06:07,833 --> 02:06:09,291 going forward, at least sort 1568 02:06:09,291 --> 02:06:11,291 of at a sort of a GP level. 1569 02:06:11,750 --> 02:06:15,833 And then obviously, this integration of 1570 02:06:15,833 --> 02:06:17,541 AI will really help to just improve 1571 02:06:17,750 --> 02:06:19,000 patient health outcomes. 1572 02:06:19,500 --> 02:06:21,833 Because I think that's something that the 1573 02:06:21,833 --> 02:06:23,500 traditional model really struggles with 1574 02:06:23,500 --> 02:06:25,666 and is throttled by is just this lack of 1575 02:06:25,666 --> 02:06:27,750 time as you alluded to at the very 1576 02:06:27,750 --> 02:06:28,791 beginning of our conversation. 1577 02:06:29,000 --> 02:06:30,375 It's not that doctors are 1578 02:06:30,375 --> 02:06:31,833 useless or that they don't try it. 1579 02:06:32,125 --> 02:06:34,000 They just they are at the mercy of a 1580 02:06:34,000 --> 02:06:35,875 system that doesn't actually really 1581 02:06:35,875 --> 02:06:37,333 support patient care. 1582 02:06:37,333 --> 02:06:39,500 It supports if there's a financial 1583 02:06:39,500 --> 02:06:41,916 incentive, ultimately, and you are just 1584 02:06:41,916 --> 02:06:44,291 pushed through, you're given your 10 1585 02:06:44,291 --> 02:06:45,166 minutes in the doctor's office. 1586 02:06:45,375 --> 02:06:48,333 Because the system is designed, the 1587 02:06:48,333 --> 02:06:49,625 system is the problem, right? 1588 02:06:49,625 --> 02:06:51,833 It's not a doctor, obviously, is the 1589 02:06:51,833 --> 02:06:54,833 system is designed for the doctor to be a 1590 02:06:54,833 --> 02:06:58,291 responder, not a curator of care, right? 1591 02:06:58,791 --> 02:07:01,208 And we want to flip the script here and 1592 02:07:01,208 --> 02:07:04,291 to just do that to allow the doctor to 1593 02:07:04,291 --> 02:07:06,875 focus on what is best at. 1594 02:07:06,916 --> 02:07:09,041 So being human 1595 02:07:09,041 --> 02:07:11,333 interpretation, complex decision, 1596 02:07:12,916 --> 02:07:13,833 and, you know, 1597 02:07:15,083 --> 02:07:15,666 this, again, this 1598 02:07:15,666 --> 02:07:17,041 compassionate guidance, right? 1599 02:07:18,750 --> 02:07:22,625 And I think it's also a guiding and 1600 02:07:22,625 --> 02:07:24,833 helping hand for doctors and 1601 02:07:24,833 --> 02:07:28,666 practitioners, because nobody wants to be 1602 02:07:28,666 --> 02:07:32,250 under all this paperwork and to be under 1603 02:07:32,250 --> 02:07:34,750 the Charler-Cone's work between lab 1604 02:07:34,750 --> 02:07:35,958 reports sometimes can 1605 02:07:35,958 --> 02:07:38,458 be, you know, very tiring. 1606 02:07:38,916 --> 02:07:41,750 And when you realize you're missing some, 1607 02:07:41,833 --> 02:07:45,500 you know, important information, but you 1608 02:07:45,500 --> 02:07:48,000 have not been given before, and then you 1609 02:07:48,000 --> 02:07:49,125 have to redo the whole thing. 1610 02:07:49,125 --> 02:07:50,291 It's like, all those 1611 02:07:50,291 --> 02:07:52,750 things can be improved. 1612 02:07:53,208 --> 02:07:54,125 And that is with the 1613 02:07:54,125 --> 02:07:56,708 help of digital AI and tech. 1614 02:07:57,000 --> 02:07:57,166 Yeah. 1615 02:07:57,458 --> 02:07:59,875 Yeah, no, I do appreciate that point. 1616 02:08:00,375 --> 02:08:03,333 And I mean, I think it's that's fairly 1617 02:08:03,333 --> 02:08:05,916 consistent in any service-based industry. 1618 02:08:05,916 --> 02:08:07,125 I mean, my parents are teachers. 1619 02:08:07,333 --> 02:08:09,875 I know plenty of doctors and all of them 1620 02:08:09,875 --> 02:08:12,541 moan about the amount of 1621 02:08:12,541 --> 02:08:14,208 administrative paperwork. 1622 02:08:14,541 --> 02:08:16,291 I mean, yeah, administrative work that's 1623 02:08:16,291 --> 02:08:17,666 building up is fair. 1624 02:08:18,166 --> 02:08:20,250 And people are able to spend, in these 1625 02:08:20,250 --> 02:08:23,000 professions, seemingly are able to spend 1626 02:08:23,000 --> 02:08:24,958 less time with their patients as they 1627 02:08:24,958 --> 02:08:27,250 have to deal with more and more red tape. 1628 02:08:27,250 --> 02:08:30,166 So if this sort of infrastructure going 1629 02:08:30,166 --> 02:08:32,291 forwards can even offload a lot of that, 1630 02:08:32,500 --> 02:08:35,000 I think it would just improve outcomes. 1631 02:08:35,375 --> 02:08:37,541 It's, AI will amplify, right? 1632 02:08:37,541 --> 02:08:38,500 It will not reflect to 1633 02:08:38,500 --> 02:08:39,666 come back to the things. 1634 02:08:40,083 --> 02:08:42,000 And in the VxOS, 1635 02:08:43,125 --> 02:08:46,416 what we were talking about is helping 1636 02:08:46,416 --> 02:08:47,916 about detecting subtle 1637 02:08:47,916 --> 02:08:50,083 trends before base scale, okay? 1638 02:08:51,250 --> 02:08:55,500 And provide a sort of risk assessment and 1639 02:08:55,500 --> 02:08:57,208 suggestions already to the doctor. 1640 02:08:58,416 --> 02:08:59,666 And then this is about 1641 02:08:59,666 --> 02:09:01,541 automating a health journey. 1642 02:09:03,041 --> 02:09:04,208 And having done already a 1643 02:09:04,208 --> 02:09:06,500 bit of a triage and reminders, 1644 02:09:07,500 --> 02:09:10,875 while the physician will validate, 1645 02:09:11,083 --> 02:09:13,875 contextualize those insights. 1646 02:09:14,416 --> 02:09:15,875 And I think this is very important. 1647 02:09:16,791 --> 02:09:20,416 And make all those clinical decisions on 1648 02:09:20,416 --> 02:09:23,458 diagnostic and therapies, because you 1649 02:09:23,458 --> 02:09:25,000 don't want to leave that to AI, right? 1650 02:09:26,708 --> 02:09:27,458 So yeah, I think it's, 1651 02:09:29,916 --> 02:09:35,500 yeah, I see the doctors becoming more of 1652 02:09:35,500 --> 02:09:38,708 a relationship-based care sort of thing. 1653 02:09:39,750 --> 02:09:41,291 Coaching and patient 1654 02:09:41,291 --> 02:09:43,375 education and handling 1655 02:09:45,041 --> 02:09:46,833 Yeah, and I'll see this a very 1656 02:09:46,833 --> 02:09:48,583 sign-in-bout, sign-in-biotic 1657 02:09:48,583 --> 02:09:49,916 relationship, right? 1658 02:09:50,458 --> 02:09:52,958 So the AI will help for the precision. 1659 02:09:54,041 --> 02:09:56,416 And the doctor again, will bring this 1660 02:09:56,416 --> 02:09:58,666 wisdom and the empathy, right? 1661 02:09:59,750 --> 02:10:02,208 Yeah, no, I again, I couldn't agree more. 1662 02:10:02,208 --> 02:10:03,625 And I think it's just going to streamline 1663 02:10:03,625 --> 02:10:04,583 healthcare going forward. 1664 02:10:05,375 --> 02:10:07,166 Thomas, I know we're starting to slowly 1665 02:10:07,166 --> 02:10:08,125 come up against time. 1666 02:10:08,125 --> 02:10:10,208 But I'd love to ask you about the pilot 1667 02:10:10,208 --> 02:10:11,541 project that you have VTX. 1668 02:10:11,916 --> 02:10:13,625 I think it's based in New York, if I'm 1669 02:10:13,625 --> 02:10:15,666 not, if I'm not incorrect. 1670 02:10:16,500 --> 02:10:18,250 Can you tell us a little about that? 1671 02:10:18,250 --> 02:10:18,958 Excuse me, can you tell 1672 02:10:18,958 --> 02:10:20,250 us a little more about it? 1673 02:10:21,208 --> 02:10:22,916 Sort of the good, the bad, ugly, what 1674 02:10:22,916 --> 02:10:24,625 you've learned and sort of how you sort 1675 02:10:24,625 --> 02:10:27,750 of envisage the rollout going forward as 1676 02:10:27,750 --> 02:10:29,000 a result of this project? 1677 02:10:30,041 --> 02:10:34,291 Well, first, you know, 1678 02:10:34,291 --> 02:10:35,833 there's a lot of top secret there, 1679 02:10:36,833 --> 02:10:37,791 to a certain extent. 1680 02:10:38,625 --> 02:10:42,250 But the, what I can say is, and it comes 1681 02:10:42,250 --> 02:10:45,000 back to the viewpoint we've just 1682 02:10:45,000 --> 02:10:48,500 highlighted is, it's really important to 1683 02:10:48,500 --> 02:10:52,166 have AI and the 1684 02:10:52,166 --> 02:10:54,791 practitioners, doctors in the same group, 1685 02:10:55,791 --> 02:11:00,625 and putting all of it within a clinic, 1686 02:11:01,541 --> 02:11:03,083 which I wouldn't call a clinic. 1687 02:11:03,750 --> 02:11:07,333 But let's say a wellness hub for 1688 02:11:07,333 --> 02:11:10,000 precision prevention is very powerful. 1689 02:11:10,666 --> 02:11:11,625 If you can have an 1690 02:11:11,625 --> 02:11:14,250 operating system and try to, 1691 02:11:15,291 --> 02:11:16,916 we have, again, we have a very strong 1692 02:11:16,916 --> 02:11:18,416 accurate care system in 1693 02:11:18,416 --> 02:11:19,916 place, an establishment. 1694 02:11:20,791 --> 02:11:22,166 But what about having an establishment 1695 02:11:22,166 --> 02:11:24,416 where it's all about predictive 1696 02:11:24,416 --> 02:11:27,416 prevention in real time, and looking at 1697 02:11:27,416 --> 02:11:30,583 in a city environment, 1698 02:11:30,833 --> 02:11:32,250 a smart city, let's say, 1699 02:11:34,000 --> 02:11:37,916 the doctor is actually monitoring and 1700 02:11:37,916 --> 02:11:39,875 reaching out to someone when things 1701 02:11:39,875 --> 02:11:44,625 becoming more or less clinical to stay 1702 02:11:44,625 --> 02:11:47,125 below that clinical range and make sure 1703 02:11:47,125 --> 02:11:48,625 that we are in the prevention 1704 02:11:49,916 --> 02:11:51,416 and real time optimization. 1705 02:11:52,416 --> 02:11:53,458 And that is possible 1706 02:11:53,458 --> 02:11:55,500 within a clinic environment. 1707 02:11:55,791 --> 02:11:56,541 And you can see them 1708 02:11:56,541 --> 02:11:59,125 as tower control almost, 1709 02:12:00,125 --> 02:12:02,083 where you can have intervention, targeted 1710 02:12:02,083 --> 02:12:03,375 intervention in real 1711 02:12:03,375 --> 02:12:05,583 time for health utilization. 1712 02:12:06,500 --> 02:12:08,833 And another thing, this is really 1713 02:12:08,833 --> 02:12:11,791 something that I would 1714 02:12:11,791 --> 02:12:12,791 like to achieve there. 1715 02:12:13,500 --> 02:12:14,583 That is the first layer. 1716 02:12:15,541 --> 02:12:16,625 And the second layer, 1717 02:12:17,000 --> 02:12:18,583 which is a bit more top secret, 1718 02:12:20,041 --> 02:12:26,041 but what about creating something that 1719 02:12:26,041 --> 02:12:29,458 your home is monitoring you? 1720 02:12:31,625 --> 02:12:33,541 Because, again, those 1721 02:12:33,541 --> 02:12:35,541 things will start to disappear. 1722 02:12:37,250 --> 02:12:42,958 And I think with AI, things to like, 1723 02:12:43,541 --> 02:12:44,458 those dashboard and 1724 02:12:44,458 --> 02:12:45,875 everything will become ambient. 1725 02:12:47,708 --> 02:12:50,875 And if your home can track you in the 1726 02:12:50,875 --> 02:12:53,083 background as an orchestra, you go to 1727 02:12:53,083 --> 02:12:54,666 your bathroom, you do your daily routine, 1728 02:12:54,666 --> 02:12:57,166 you do your things, and this data, right? 1729 02:12:57,458 --> 02:13:00,708 You're urine, your stool sample, your 1730 02:13:00,708 --> 02:13:04,541 microbiome, you already have like, you 1731 02:13:04,541 --> 02:13:05,500 know, you can collect 1732 02:13:05,500 --> 02:13:07,541 hundreds of biomarkers. 1733 02:13:07,541 --> 02:13:08,166 You're going to put 1734 02:13:08,166 --> 02:13:09,416 regenerous stuff out of business. 1735 02:13:10,208 --> 02:13:10,375 Sorry? 1736 02:13:10,875 --> 02:13:11,333 You're going to put 1737 02:13:11,333 --> 02:13:12,333 regenerous out of business. 1738 02:13:13,291 --> 02:13:18,500 Obviously, I'm part of the founding team. 1739 02:13:19,500 --> 02:13:22,333 But it's a reality, things evolve, right? 1740 02:13:22,708 --> 02:13:24,000 The only constant is change. 1741 02:13:25,458 --> 02:13:29,833 And I think it's where it's going. 1742 02:13:31,583 --> 02:13:34,125 But if you have an operating system, but 1743 02:13:34,125 --> 02:13:36,041 when you told you with the clinic 1744 02:13:36,041 --> 02:13:38,166 structure, and the professional, 1745 02:13:39,541 --> 02:13:42,291 a bit like a tower control of planes, 1746 02:13:42,875 --> 02:13:46,125 when the red dots, this goes out of path. 1747 02:13:47,083 --> 02:13:48,625 Oh, let's reach out to 1748 02:13:48,625 --> 02:13:50,125 this client and invite him. 1749 02:13:50,125 --> 02:13:52,875 And we already know the reason why this 1750 02:13:52,875 --> 02:13:55,958 person goes out of the path, right? 1751 02:13:56,458 --> 02:14:01,125 Because of those markers, if it's fixable 1752 02:14:01,125 --> 02:14:03,708 by lifestyle, diet and environment, we 1753 02:14:03,708 --> 02:14:07,541 can give them nudges, specific protocol 1754 02:14:07,541 --> 02:14:09,833 without them coming. 1755 02:14:10,333 --> 02:14:13,125 If they need to, if they want to speed up 1756 02:14:13,125 --> 02:14:15,291 the process, and maybe your hyperbaric 1757 02:14:15,291 --> 02:14:18,375 chamber is going to help them, because 1758 02:14:18,375 --> 02:14:21,250 this is post COVID symptoms related, 1759 02:14:21,458 --> 02:14:22,416 maybe they need a bit 1760 02:14:22,416 --> 02:14:24,208 more oxygen in their blood. 1761 02:14:25,583 --> 02:14:28,375 That will be helpful as to that, okay, if 1762 02:14:28,375 --> 02:14:28,916 you don't want to do 1763 02:14:28,916 --> 02:14:30,125 that, the still those options. 1764 02:14:31,250 --> 02:14:32,625 And things are a bit more 1765 02:14:33,666 --> 02:14:34,958 clinical, you're really 1766 02:14:34,958 --> 02:14:36,750 suboptimal on those things. 1767 02:14:37,625 --> 02:14:39,750 Come and do an ID on those things. 1768 02:14:40,916 --> 02:14:41,791 Maybe, you know, 1769 02:14:43,125 --> 02:14:44,875 that's real time predictive prevention, 1770 02:14:45,166 --> 02:14:47,125 and scalable to a level 1771 02:14:47,125 --> 02:14:50,250 of, you know, smart cities. 1772 02:14:50,958 --> 02:14:52,625 And then you have a model that you can 1773 02:14:52,625 --> 02:14:58,750 potentially expand as something that is 1774 02:14:58,750 --> 02:15:00,166 interconnected, real 1775 02:15:00,166 --> 02:15:03,125 time, and deliver results. 1776 02:15:04,125 --> 02:15:04,958 It's incredible. 1777 02:15:05,291 --> 02:15:07,291 And it's something I'm 1778 02:15:07,291 --> 02:15:08,666 personally excited about. 1779 02:15:08,666 --> 02:15:12,375 I think that maybe it's just the inner 1780 02:15:12,375 --> 02:15:15,083 sort of biology geek in me, but I think 1781 02:15:15,083 --> 02:15:18,541 having this sort of this information is 1782 02:15:18,541 --> 02:15:20,500 not only exciting, but it's ultimately 1783 02:15:20,500 --> 02:15:23,083 sort of just life changing, and it will 1784 02:15:23,083 --> 02:15:24,833 be life changing for so many people. 1785 02:15:27,291 --> 02:15:28,333 Thomas, you've been a star. 1786 02:15:29,166 --> 02:15:30,791 Before I let you go, would you be open to 1787 02:15:30,791 --> 02:15:32,208 answering a few rapid fire questions? 1788 02:15:32,833 --> 02:15:33,791 Rapid fire questions. 1789 02:15:34,041 --> 02:15:35,250 Rapid fire questions. 1790 02:15:35,250 --> 02:15:36,750 Yes, they're never rapid fire. 1791 02:15:36,750 --> 02:15:37,500 I have yet to. 1792 02:15:37,500 --> 02:15:39,791 I think that's normally my fault, but 1793 02:15:39,791 --> 02:15:41,666 let's see if we can give it a go. 1794 02:15:42,500 --> 02:15:43,083 Okay. 1795 02:15:43,791 --> 02:15:46,208 What's your favorite wearable device? 1796 02:15:47,791 --> 02:15:49,000 Whoop. 1797 02:15:49,541 --> 02:15:52,083 The reason for this is because I lost two 1798 02:15:52,083 --> 02:15:53,833 URAR rings in the sea. 1799 02:15:54,541 --> 02:15:56,000 So I didn't want to lose a third one 1800 02:15:56,000 --> 02:15:57,166 because, you know, not cheap. 1801 02:15:58,166 --> 02:15:59,708 And I'm a swimmer. 1802 02:16:00,000 --> 02:16:02,666 So and I like to swim in the sea and 1803 02:16:02,666 --> 02:16:04,000 yeah, it just doesn't work. 1804 02:16:04,833 --> 02:16:06,625 So I whoop. 1805 02:16:06,875 --> 02:16:10,583 The reason is well, I like to track my 1806 02:16:10,583 --> 02:16:17,416 workouts and I like to see being working 1807 02:16:17,416 --> 02:16:19,666 usually under stress 1808 02:16:19,666 --> 02:16:21,541 and intense, let's say. 1809 02:16:22,291 --> 02:16:24,541 HRV is a good marker or stress monitor is 1810 02:16:24,541 --> 02:16:28,125 a good marker for me to look at. 1811 02:16:29,125 --> 02:16:32,416 And sleep is super important for me if I 1812 02:16:32,416 --> 02:16:33,875 want to perform what I do. 1813 02:16:34,541 --> 02:16:38,166 And as training is on a daily basis, you 1814 02:16:38,166 --> 02:16:39,208 know, I have my time block 1815 02:16:39,208 --> 02:16:40,500 for it and I like to track. 1816 02:16:41,041 --> 02:16:42,625 And also if I see that, you know, the 1817 02:16:42,625 --> 02:16:44,583 combination of too much training and too 1818 02:16:44,583 --> 02:16:46,916 much work, I know where I need to recover 1819 02:16:46,916 --> 02:16:49,291 and potentially do something later. 1820 02:16:49,666 --> 02:16:49,875 Right. 1821 02:16:49,958 --> 02:16:53,583 So yeah, this is why I like whoop. 1822 02:16:54,208 --> 02:16:55,333 And especially now they're launching 1823 02:16:55,333 --> 02:16:57,458 those health sort of 1824 02:16:57,458 --> 02:16:59,125 lifespan, health span, sorry. 1825 02:17:00,333 --> 02:17:02,750 Very excited to unlock this among you 1826 02:17:02,750 --> 02:17:03,500 like three or four 1827 02:17:03,500 --> 02:17:06,250 days away of unlocking it. 1828 02:17:06,250 --> 02:17:07,583 You need it to be 21 days. 1829 02:17:08,083 --> 02:17:09,458 I just ascribe to it. 1830 02:17:09,833 --> 02:17:11,041 So let's see. 1831 02:17:11,375 --> 02:17:13,541 Let's see what it gives. 1832 02:17:15,500 --> 02:17:17,500 Yeah, that's my answer. 1833 02:17:17,791 --> 02:17:19,500 Trying to sort of fire it right now. 1834 02:17:19,500 --> 02:17:20,166 That's fun. 1835 02:17:20,166 --> 02:17:20,625 That's fun. 1836 02:17:20,625 --> 02:17:21,625 Like I said, these are never quick. 1837 02:17:22,333 --> 02:17:24,000 Anyway, yeah, no, I've I saw Chris 1838 02:17:24,000 --> 02:17:25,166 Williamson had a podcast with 1839 02:17:25,166 --> 02:17:27,000 the founder of Whoop recently. 1840 02:17:27,291 --> 02:17:29,041 And yeah, I'm very, I'm looking forward 1841 02:17:29,041 --> 02:17:32,333 to the new generation there. 1842 02:17:32,333 --> 02:17:33,583 I'll definitely be emailing you and 1843 02:17:33,583 --> 02:17:34,958 asking you some questions after the fact. 1844 02:17:36,416 --> 02:17:38,458 Okay, besides healthcare, what are you 1845 02:17:38,458 --> 02:17:40,416 most excited about in terms of AI? 1846 02:17:40,750 --> 02:17:42,500 Which sort of industry do you are you 1847 02:17:42,500 --> 02:17:43,833 most excited to see it 1848 02:17:43,833 --> 02:17:44,708 get into and develop? 1849 02:17:45,916 --> 02:17:49,583 Architecture, design, also something that 1850 02:17:49,583 --> 02:17:51,916 I really like outside of tech. 1851 02:17:52,708 --> 02:17:56,541 Yeah, but that's fine. 1852 02:17:56,541 --> 02:17:57,125 That's a far one. 1853 02:17:57,333 --> 02:17:58,291 That's a far one. 1854 02:17:58,291 --> 02:17:59,791 Yeah, no, I know 1855 02:17:59,791 --> 02:18:00,791 nothing about architecture. 1856 02:18:00,791 --> 02:18:01,375 If you asked me to build 1857 02:18:01,375 --> 02:18:02,250 something, it would fall down. 1858 02:18:02,541 --> 02:18:06,125 So okay, if you could only track one 1859 02:18:06,125 --> 02:18:07,708 biomarker for overall 1860 02:18:07,708 --> 02:18:09,208 health, what would it be? 1861 02:18:11,083 --> 02:18:15,916 I think it would be yeah, I mean, HIV, 1862 02:18:16,250 --> 02:18:20,916 the reason being is HIV can 1863 02:18:20,916 --> 02:18:22,708 be a lot of things like stress, 1864 02:18:24,083 --> 02:18:26,666 obviously the sleep quality, but also can 1865 02:18:26,666 --> 02:18:28,666 be showing potentially 1866 02:18:28,666 --> 02:18:31,416 sign of chronic inflammation. 1867 02:18:32,083 --> 02:18:36,916 If you really don't get this HIV back on 1868 02:18:36,916 --> 02:18:39,166 track, and especially because once you 1869 02:18:39,166 --> 02:18:42,000 start linking HIV to over biomarkers, 1870 02:18:42,000 --> 02:18:43,250 it's become very interesting. 1871 02:18:43,833 --> 02:18:46,708 And for me personally, it is, but also 1872 02:18:46,708 --> 02:18:48,000 it's quite accessible, right? 1873 02:18:48,000 --> 02:18:49,625 You don't need to test and something that 1874 02:18:49,625 --> 02:18:51,708 is dynamic, which is like as well. 1875 02:18:51,958 --> 02:18:55,208 So you can quickly change your HIV based 1876 02:18:55,208 --> 02:18:56,375 on your lifestyle, your 1877 02:18:56,375 --> 02:18:57,833 diet environment, right? 1878 02:18:57,833 --> 02:19:00,625 So if I decide to go for dinner tonight, 1879 02:19:00,708 --> 02:19:03,916 have a glass of wine, I know it's going 1880 02:19:03,916 --> 02:19:05,708 to be very bad tomorrow. 1881 02:19:06,250 --> 02:19:12,500 But if I do a breathwork session, or when 1882 02:19:12,500 --> 02:19:13,500 I go swimming in the 1883 02:19:13,500 --> 02:19:16,375 sea, it will be to the roof. 1884 02:19:17,500 --> 02:19:19,250 And so yeah, it's very 1885 02:19:19,250 --> 02:19:20,500 reactive, which I like. 1886 02:19:21,083 --> 02:19:22,000 Yeah, perfect answer. 1887 02:19:22,250 --> 02:19:22,833 Thank you for that. 1888 02:19:23,208 --> 02:19:23,958 Okay, two more. 1889 02:19:24,833 --> 02:19:27,416 There's a lot of interest in the sort of, 1890 02:19:27,416 --> 02:19:29,083 I suppose, the health world at the moment 1891 02:19:29,083 --> 02:19:31,208 about trying to optimize health sort of 1892 02:19:31,208 --> 02:19:33,375 based off sort of single gene 1893 02:19:33,375 --> 02:19:35,875 polymorphisms, like MTHFR. 1894 02:19:37,458 --> 02:19:39,708 And all of a sudden, if you can try just 1895 02:19:39,708 --> 02:19:42,666 sort of dial in this one gene, you can 1896 02:19:42,666 --> 02:19:44,666 improve all aspects of your health. 1897 02:19:45,833 --> 02:19:46,833 I think I know your answer. 1898 02:19:47,208 --> 02:19:48,750 Yeah, this is not about MTHFR saying, 1899 02:19:48,750 --> 02:19:50,458 "Oh, it sounds like a squared world." 1900 02:19:50,458 --> 02:19:52,000 But I really think it does, 1901 02:19:52,750 --> 02:19:54,666 especially the way it is used. 1902 02:19:56,166 --> 02:19:57,916 I think it's overrated 1903 02:19:57,916 --> 02:20:01,541 to just use MTHFR 100%. 1904 02:20:02,250 --> 02:20:05,041 It's marketing, I'd say. 1905 02:20:06,416 --> 02:20:09,666 We know that yes, your genes are 1906 02:20:09,666 --> 02:20:13,958 important, but a single gene on its own 1907 02:20:13,958 --> 02:20:16,000 is just one better point is 1908 02:20:16,000 --> 02:20:17,500 far from the whole picture. 1909 02:20:19,083 --> 02:20:20,000 And I mean, I've wrote 1910 02:20:20,000 --> 02:20:21,500 a book about it in 2015. 1911 02:20:22,541 --> 02:20:24,041 I talk about MTHFR, 1912 02:20:26,083 --> 02:20:28,166 but alone has little value 1913 02:20:28,166 --> 02:20:30,291 and always has been my stand. 1914 02:20:31,291 --> 02:20:33,291 Mitillation pathways are 1915 02:20:33,291 --> 02:20:35,291 complex and it's not just one gene. 1916 02:20:36,041 --> 02:20:37,208 You have comped, you have 1917 02:20:37,208 --> 02:20:38,500 like, there's plenty of others. 1918 02:20:39,875 --> 02:20:41,666 And also, it needs to be 1919 02:20:41,666 --> 02:20:43,291 analyzed as a whole, right? 1920 02:20:43,291 --> 02:20:44,750 We've been moving a context. 1921 02:20:45,833 --> 02:20:51,958 If you have MTHFR issue and 1922 02:20:51,958 --> 02:20:54,166 you are a 55 years old woman, 1923 02:20:55,208 --> 02:20:56,666 it's very different if you 1924 02:20:56,666 --> 02:20:59,333 are a 25 years old, you go male. 1925 02:21:00,958 --> 02:21:02,291 And what does it mean? 1926 02:21:02,666 --> 02:21:04,083 So also, what is your goal? 1927 02:21:04,375 --> 02:21:05,208 Where are you right now 1928 02:21:05,208 --> 02:21:05,916 in your health journey? 1929 02:21:06,458 --> 02:21:08,333 And what are all the other 1930 02:21:09,458 --> 02:21:12,083 genes, variation and 1931 02:21:12,083 --> 02:21:13,958 biomarkers that are related to that? 1932 02:21:14,166 --> 02:21:16,500 So the B-litanins, all those different 1933 02:21:16,500 --> 02:21:18,333 things, and detoxification pathways. 1934 02:21:19,958 --> 02:21:22,958 So yeah, sorry, long answer, but I 1935 02:21:22,958 --> 02:21:25,541 couldn't go forever on this because it 1936 02:21:25,541 --> 02:21:27,708 doesn't always mean sometimes. 1937 02:21:27,708 --> 02:21:30,375 I mean, I don't get it, but yeah, I think 1938 02:21:30,375 --> 02:21:32,000 it's sometimes very much 1939 02:21:32,000 --> 02:21:33,916 misused for marketing reason. 1940 02:21:34,625 --> 02:21:35,583 No, I agree completely. 1941 02:21:35,583 --> 02:21:36,791 And now you've actually answered my next 1942 02:21:36,791 --> 02:21:38,083 one, which is what you would think of 1943 02:21:38,083 --> 02:21:39,250 polygenic risk scores. 1944 02:21:39,250 --> 02:21:41,208 But I think you've already answered that 1945 02:21:41,208 --> 02:21:42,833 right in the idea that you 1946 02:21:42,833 --> 02:21:44,166 think it's valuable for sure. 1947 02:21:45,125 --> 02:21:46,625 Again, because a single 1948 02:21:46,625 --> 02:21:49,333 SNP is just noise, right? 1949 02:21:50,333 --> 02:21:52,333 And it has minimal 1950 02:21:52,333 --> 02:21:54,250 impact and little context. 1951 02:21:55,458 --> 02:21:56,000 Well, 1952 02:21:57,166 --> 02:21:59,125 polygenic score, in contrast, I think 1953 02:21:59,125 --> 02:22:02,083 it's you know, combining thousands of 1954 02:22:02,083 --> 02:22:04,583 genetic variants into 1955 02:22:04,583 --> 02:22:05,750 a meaningful pattern. 1956 02:22:07,625 --> 02:22:09,666 And if you interpret this correctly, 1957 02:22:10,875 --> 02:22:15,250 they reveal your, you know, your genetic 1958 02:22:16,250 --> 02:22:20,166 predisposition and your score, your risks 1959 02:22:20,166 --> 02:22:23,458 of where you should be focusing on. 1960 02:22:24,541 --> 02:22:26,708 And yeah, it's powerful 1961 02:22:26,708 --> 02:22:27,958 for prevention, for sure. 1962 02:22:28,666 --> 02:22:29,458 Yeah, definitely is. 1963 02:22:29,958 --> 02:22:30,666 Thomas, you've been a 1964 02:22:30,666 --> 02:22:31,750 star and an amazing guest. 1965 02:22:32,000 --> 02:22:33,375 Where can people find you if they'd like 1966 02:22:33,375 --> 02:22:35,875 to connect or learn more about VTAX or 1967 02:22:35,875 --> 02:22:36,666 your other projects? 1968 02:22:36,666 --> 02:22:38,750 So Thomas Olivier on LinkedIn, 1969 02:22:40,333 --> 02:22:43,541 vtaix.health, if people want to join the 1970 02:22:43,541 --> 02:22:44,750 waiting list, there's a lot 1971 02:22:44,750 --> 02:22:46,666 of amazing things coming up. 1972 02:22:47,458 --> 02:22:49,458 The name might change, by the way. 1973 02:22:51,083 --> 02:22:52,375 Yes, we want to have 1974 02:22:52,375 --> 02:22:53,750 more of the user interface. 1975 02:22:54,375 --> 02:22:55,166 But being saved at 1976 02:22:55,166 --> 02:22:58,458 x.health is the website for now. 1977 02:22:58,958 --> 02:23:00,708 And yeah, I invite people 1978 02:23:00,708 --> 02:23:02,000 to be part of this new era. 1979 02:23:02,625 --> 02:23:02,958 Perfect. 1980 02:23:02,958 --> 02:23:04,875 And I'm sure the domain will redirect if 1981 02:23:04,875 --> 02:23:05,500 you do change the 1982 02:23:05,500 --> 02:23:06,625 name and we'll update it. 1983 02:23:06,875 --> 02:23:07,875 So perfect. 1984 02:23:08,416 --> 02:23:09,625 Thank you so much for your time. 1985 02:23:09,625 --> 02:23:10,708 It's been a pleasure chatting. 1986 02:23:10,708 --> 02:23:11,416 And I look forward to 1987 02:23:11,458 --> 02:23:12,500 doing so again in the future. 1988 02:23:13,375 --> 02:23:13,541 Likewise. 1989 02:23:14,041 --> 02:23:14,666 Speak to you soon. 1990 02:23:14,666 --> 02:23:15,291 Thank you very much.