Good morning, Thomas.

It's great to have you

on the podcast today.

Hi.

Yeah.

If memory serves, I think we first met

back at the Health

Optimization Summit in around 2023.

I think you were there

with Omnossa at the time.

Anyway, it's been a minute and here we

are in 2025 to talk about

your latest venture, VTX.

Before we dive into that particular

conversation though, would you mind just

introducing yourself

to the audience for us?

I know you have a fascinating history

when it comes to science, to health, to

exercise physiology, and I think it would

be great to get that background again.

Yeah, sure.

Quick background, I will try

to keep the story very short.

But I like to say that

I'm a failed athlete.

When I was 16, I was a

French champion of swimming,

believe it or not.

This is where it all started for me

because I was training very intensively

as you would do every day, every single

day for two hours, holidays for me as a

young 16 years old was twice a

day in the pool for two hours.

Everything was fine until

I started to change pool.

Went for the local Olympic

pool, like change the club.

One thing has changed there, which was

the proximity of a bakery.

The result of this is obviously when

you're a 16 years old male,

growing very fast, or when you're like

busting testosterone, training like

crazy, you just eat all the time.

I remember going out of the training

sessions and just I had my, in my

backpack, the

literally kilo pot of Nutella.

I was passing by this bakery

and I had this old baguette.

I was opening, I had a knife as well,

like old school opening the whole thing,

putting half of it and just eating this

on the way back home.

That was just literally two

hours maybe before dinner.

I was still ready for dinner.

Fifteen hundred calories.

The amount of calories I

was burning was just crazy.

You have to replenish, but obviously I

learned very quickly the hard way, but I

was replenished the wrong way.

And I've learned this by literally

crashing the day after I was in school,

falling asleep and going to see the

doctors and like, "Oh,

you're all the training."

I was like, "Whoa, what was the case?"

And I didn't change my training regimen.

I just changed the pool.

I wasn't changing anything.

So anyway, this is where I started to

look into what could

be the real issue here.

And I was interested in nutrition and I

fell into probably one of the

first men's health at the time.

And we're talking

about early 2000s, right?

And it was about nutrition for athletes.

And I was shocked, but actually eating

eggs and salmon in the

morning was a good idea.

And my cereal's box that was saying

athletes was actually rubbish, right?

And maybe the old baguette with half a

pot of Nutella was

not a good idea either.

And when I changed this really quickly,

things changed for me.

And I got fascinated by nutrition and

really trying to optimize

my performance, my health.

You know, so yeah, it opens a lot of new

avenue for me to explore.

And I felt it fascinating, especially

since then, genetically speaking, I

wasn't going to be the top swimmer

because I'm not two meters.

I'm 180 and actually

it's short for a swimmer.

And yeah, past 17, I was out, right?

When everybody started growing and

reached those size, I was just very,

very, those height, I was

just out for the competition.

So I decided to stop and as a fair

athlete went into sport science.

Yeah, sure.

Well, I'm far back.

So you're doing pretty well by my steps.

Yeah, anyway, so cutting

down, so we're short from there.

I, as I said, sport science, then arrived

in London and started coaching.

And I'm obviously going to go on step

here, but coaching athletes.

And what I really enjoy doing was trying

to get as personalized as possible before

personalized personalization was a thing.

And again, looking at what was available,

I fell into some research

paper about nutrigenomics.

And at the time it

was in South Africa lab

that we're looking at certain genes, like

the famous old ones like FTO, you know,

which basically

taught me that, wow, we can actually have

a very personalized approach to caution

and to potentially educating someone

about their own genetic

to be able then to, you know, have a

tailored plan for

performance, recovery, training.

So it was all very exciting.

Was that Tim Noakes's lab by any chance?

DNA analysis, it was at the time.

Oh, yes.

I remember that company.

Accuray Accuray up in South Africa.

Exactly.

And I bothered them a lot because I was a

coach at the time and, you know, I had no

medical background and I was like

harassing them to learn and do a course,

which we did.

So the first course they made, and I

think I was one of the first students,

they became nutrigenomic certified

and I started implementing this in London

for all the athletes.

And the test was still

quite expensive at the time.

Right.

And we're looking at a few SNPs.

So looking at maybe, you know, 20, 20

SNPs maximum, probably even less.

But then quickly start to try to improve

all of this and also, especially in the

recommendation aspect, not just the

hardcore sort of gene and gene variation

without explanation.

So I was helping in putting this together

and again, getting the whole story short,

starting with first company.

And I will make this very short because I

decided to leave this company because,

as you probably know, back in the day,

DNA was the wild west.

And when there's a

wild west, there's cowboy.

And there is definitely a lot of actors,

let's say, that wanted to sell a product

without really a continuity.

And it worked for them, but

it's not what I wanted to do.

And so I exited all this

and my vision was really to

educate people on how to

learn, explore their gene.

So I sort of stepped back and wrote a

book which was cracking

your health code in 2014.

And it's about that.

It's about an invitation to explore your

genes and learn about

your different variation.

And what can you do about it?

So really,

nutrigenomic connection, right?

So how can we adapt, change with many

habits, your behavior

based on your genetic?

But also while doing this, realizing that

it's definitely not the whole story.

And this is where we created GenSmart,

which was my first platform

where we were uploading 23 enemy data.

And at the time it was quite funny

because I was just going

towards 23 enemy accounts.

Hashtag 23 enemy Instagrams, like, hey,

you can upload your data to

GenSmart and find out more.

More than learning that you are the

cousin of Marie Antoinette or whatever.

And give you actually insight already in

terms of what are your predisposition?

What can you learn about it?

And so, yeah, maybe your data

classification pathways are not optimal.

So what can you do as many goals and

tasks to implement in your daily life to

potentially help you do better?

But again, GenSmart was amazing, I think,

at the time because

we're talking about 2016.

It was one of the first.

But then I really wanted to connect the

dots with functional testing.

So functional medicine approach with the

hormone test, the

microbiome, blood markers.

To really try to have a whole picture

here of your risk factors, the where you

are now in your journey

based on the biomarkers.

And also

understanding your context, right?

So the symptoms.

And this is what we have been doing with

HONOS and first with Imperial College,

trying to develop this

interconnectivity between the dots.

And again, because data and

isolation are just points, right?

But when you start connecting the dots

together, you can see pattern, you can

you can understand the story.

And it makes a great difference.

And this is where we created HONOS, which

looks at things by order of priority and

looked at the combination of genetic

symptom assessment and

all functional testing.

And by doing so, we really

saw an uptake of practitioner.

But those two camps, those practitioners

looking at this and saying, oh, well,

it's you know, it's not good because it's

fancy colors and everything.

And then others that starting to

understand that actually very subsistence

to it and can use it as a tool to improve

my practice, because I can reach a higher

level of network information that I

couldn't do on my own

because I'm just a hormone expert.

I'm not necessarily a microbiome expert.

And I'm not so good at reading blood

markers, for example.

And definitely not trained as a

nutritional practitioner.

So this is what we have done.

And we had within less than six months of

maybe a thousand

practitioners using our platform.

And this is where we took a leap of faith

to acquire Regeneris Labs,

which is the UK

leading company for testing.

Right.

So we managed forces and this is what

created now a CRM that's really support

practitioner to have an efficient

practice because you can order a test.

You can have all your

patients in one place.

The results.

Everything is in one place.

And that's what I'm very proud of.

What we have achieved here is to create a

very much seamless experience from

different labs to the end user, which is

the practitioner here for efficiency.

Right.

So, yeah, that's the whole journey.

Yeah, no, no, it is.

It's an amazing journey.

And I can vouch for the

Ominous platform personally.

I think it's incredible.

The fact that you can, as you said

yourself, just bring in these different

types of data from various different

types of functional lab testing and then

just be able to look at it as a whole.

And just the algorithm at play that just

makes it so accessible, not only to

people who are practitioners, but also to

people like myself who maybe got more of

an academic background

and this sort of stuff.

But it just brings it all together.

It really does.

And it makes the data actionable.

That's always my mission.

Still is to make things accessible for

everyone, but also effective to anyone.

Right.

In a sense of getting the

insight for all those data.

But what does it mean in terms of

mechanism of process of turning this into

real time action and adjustments for

preventive prevention, for example?

Yeah.

And as you alluded to earlier, I think it

really sort of supports physicians as

well, because then they can sort of they

can work through the biochemistry.

They can work through the endocrinology.

They can work through the the gut stuff

and just it's all provided there and they

get this feedback on a patient and they

can ultimately provide

better care as a result.

And there's also the learning hub.

Right.

So if you are a practitioner, not

necessarily within the platform, you have

all those amazing practitioners.

You have workshops, you have video

training, you have

courses you can you can do.

So, yeah, it's a great platform.

So very proud of that.

No, I love the one that Dean St.

Mark did a while ago on.

He's done two or three now,

but those were incredible.

Anyway, Thomas, that's that's that's

quite the story and it's quite the jump

as well, sort of going from the sort of

background and sort of sports science and

I suppose exercise physiology all the way

into the sort of tech startup world.

Yeah,

I think a great place to sort of continue

this conversation would be actually let's

backtrack slightly and

talk about mutual genomics.

And again, it's a passion of yours and

evidently something you're

well you're well learned in.

Now, the way I understand it, it's basic,

of course, it's a relationship between

what we eat, our genes, and I suppose

fundamentally our health.

Of course, there's a

lot more to it than that.

But would you mind breaking down this

concept for us and maybe how you some

examples of how you

utilize the it earlier on with.

With the athletes that you were training,

I think it would be quite interesting to

delve into some of those that you answer.

I think you you made it very clear and

trying to make it a complex simple

because the tradition

makes me a bit complex.

But for the audience here, which I'm sure

is a very educated audience, but the

traditional mix is really the interaction

between the food, your

lifestyle, your environment, right?

And your gene and how they express.

So the idea is you have a certain set of

genes and your bio individuality, right?

So my genotype will be different venues.

And based on this, we obviously have

different way of

expressing those genotypes.

And I'll give you examples based on the

story from what I have, for example, the

reason why I was crashing, for example,

was an insulin sensitivity issue.

Many years later, I tested for the genes,

but I realized that all my insulin

sensitivity genes

were sort of high impact.

Right.

So the PPA-RG genes, for example, which

has to do with insulin regulation.

It regulates all the fat cell development

and glucose metabolism and more really.

But what I had this variance, right?

I had my insulin resistance was

definitely not there.

So when I got this baguette and the

Nutella, I'm down to crash.

And the long term of doing this also

could have been well, being an athlete

was a bit different.

But let's say if I was sedentary, that is

high risk of type 2 diabetes.

Right.

So they've long term type 2 diabetes.

I am a high risk of type 2 diabetes.

And that's why in my lifestyle, I have

implemented things

like intermittent fasting.

All the little tools that I can use to

regulate my glucose

are still very important.

If I were again, still acting like a

French ninja, not understanding

nutrition, I would crash.

Right.

So it's very important for

me to have protein when I eat.

And if I don't fast, you

know, break my fast with protein,

it is almost things are very important.

And there's many, many different genes

and variation you can have.

So the most known, for example, is maybe

caffeine metabolism.

Right.

So this gene CYP-OMA2, which is your

short, I mean, fast

metabolism or slow metabolism.

So that explains some people with just

after one espresso,

which is habitory, right.

And over time, all the genes to do with

again, I have all this sassy genes as

well, where like MC4 are, I call it the

Deft-Bufet syndrome.

Because you put in front of me a Bufet

and if I'm hungry and if I'm tired, I'm

just wired to go and

eat without stopping.

Right.

I don't have this switch off button.

So all those things, these things that

I've learned and have the habits, develop

the habits to like mindful eating and

making sure I have enough protein, making

sure, you know, to switch off those genes

to express a bit too much.

Right.

So and then you can go into

health-related issue, cardiovascular

detoxification pathways like GST-M1,

which I think is a fine

living in London, very toxic city,

having all those detoxification pathways,

you know, like phase one and

phase two, not being optimal.

I do need to support my detoxification

pathways on an ongoing basis.

I would fall asleep literally as soon as

I arrive in the tube because it's so

toxic with all different things.

Right.

So implementing, well, a lot of training,

supporting my with certain supplements,

but also doing things like making sure I

eat food that is not, you know, full of

pesticides, the clean 15 and all those

different things and also making sure

that I now and then have sonars.

All of these are things

that are very important for me.

Yeah, that's fascinating.

And it's interesting to see, just going

back to the sporting analogy for a

moment, how and I'm sure you still follow

endurance sports to some extent, but just

how this genetic data has almost

driven the industry in terms of how

athletes are feeling and eating.

I remember I don't know if you follow

cycling at all, but when Chris Froome,

who won the Tour de France, I think three

or four years in a row, was really

performing well before he had a crash at

the Crète d'Ephane.

He was following a very

high fat, low carb diet.

And at the time it was

assumed that that was optimal.

And nowadays it's interesting that you

see these same athletes and what they're

now doing is running a very low quality.

That is very nice actually with cyclists.

The difference from a person to another

can be amazing, especially in terms of

recovery, performance.

Let's say I'm a sprinter, right?

I'm designed to be, I've got this

ACTN-free fast-twitch metabolism.

You make me swim a thousand kilometres,

people take me far away, but a hundred

metres was the best, right?

Back in the days.

It's just harm design, right?

But also the recovery.

So cyclists, for example,

had a cyclist who had very slow recovery

and was suffering

from it, always in pain.

And there's a gene called SOD2, which has

to do with antioxidant.

And obviously when you train that much,

you create a lot of oxidative stress.

And when we started juicing and getting

as many as antioxidant for supplements

and food, it was a game

changer for this person.

The recovery was much faster,

the pain almost disappeared.

And that's just because you are adapting

to what you are designed for, right?

So I think Nutriusion Mixer definitely

has its value in not only for

performance, but for health as well,

which is what I'm focusing on now.

Yeah, definitely.

And I think the other sort of nugget of

wisdom in there is that you can also

utilise genetics and eugenomics to almost

identify what you would

do well in within a sport.

Just going back to cycling, for example,

as you alluded to earlier, if you are

ACTN, if you're sort of version of the

ACTN 3 gene, if you're an RR phenotype,

you're obviously going to be far more

effective at sprinting than

you would say at climbing.

So I think when you look at it through

that lens too, it can really help you to

sort of identify maybe where in your

sport or you would expel or what sort of

sport you would

expel, not expel, as well.

So there's a lot of gene, for example,

like the O2 Max and all those things.

That makes quite a difference, right?

So if you are a Nutri

marathon runner, for example,

and if you do all those different genes

to do with like performance,

ultra long performance,

they do make a big difference.

However, one thing I would say here for

all the listeners is if you're an

athlete, yes, you want to look at that,

but you also, even athletes actually will

benefit from any disciplines and the

variation as a whole is

very important actually.

And you will find that most top athletes,

say Michael Jordan was also good at

golfing, right, or other things, because

baseball, right, it's a different set of

skills that makes you

an athlete, I would say.

So it's not just down to genetics, but

genetics definitely give you a

predisposition to certain things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm a chemist again.

My physiology is well behind me, but is

that the said principle of the specific

adaptation to impose demands?

Would that be correct?

The idea that your performance can

improve if you drive

that variation in it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yeah, of course, I think it's just

like anything, right?

So the more you do it.

So right now, I'm very focused on on my

VO2 max and all those

different things as a marker.

And I'm really doing half

protocol in the way I train.

For example, I will do like, you know,

I can't remember the name of this

protocol, but I think it's

something to do with Norway.

It's basically, you know, you run 800

meters and then you top again for two

minutes and do it again.

You're actually a lot more likely to

develop your VO2 max than just

going for very long distance.

So there's many protocols like this that

you can implement based on

what you want to achieve.

What is your goal?

And this is a more true if you know your

genetics, you know where you are now, you

know how you react with those biometrics

and you can track and progress with where

you can adapt and make it dynamic.

And I think this is how any

athletes should do it now.

And most of them do anyway.

But we're still learning, but it's

exciting that now you can track, you can

see what you are made of and you can see

where your weaknesses

are, what you can prove.

So, you know, already back in the day,

right, if someone had certain athletes,

like, I don't know, rugby players I was

coaching, if they had a lot of issues

with tendon injury, collagen genes,

COL5-1 and all those different genes.

Well, we would supplement for sure and

we'll make sure the recovery is on top.

Also in terms of the conditioning, the

training would be a lot about

conditioning was tendon and

preventing those injuries.

Whereas, but someone who never had any

injury and didn't have any of those

genes, we will focus on other things

where we were showing the weakness.

So it's very interesting to see that in a

team, there's different way

of training an individual,

because none of them are average, right?

So, but they shouldn't

have the same training.

They should have the same training for

sure as a team, but individually, it

should be different.

Yeah.

Thomas, I think we could probably spend

all day just talking

about genes and DART.

If I think we should probably,

maybe, and that's my fault, I apologize,

I'm the king of tangents, we should

probably go back to talk about

the topic of today's conversation, which

is your latest venture, VTX.

Now, you're kind enough to send me a

white paper in

preparation for this podcast.

And it was quite the monster, to be fair,

there was a lot there.

My main takeaway for your vision for VTX

is that you're aiming to sort of create,

I suppose, a platform driven by a

framework, or maybe an operating system

is a better term, which I believe you've

turned the smart health

ecosystem or SHE or she.

The idea is to use AI to help move

medicine away from sort of a reactor

model, i.e. one that deals with health

issues as they arrive to one that is more

preventative and I

suppose regenerative in nature.

Now, chances are, I know I probably

butchered that to some extent, but I hope

that I got the gist of it.

Would you mind elaborating on this idea

of VTX and what drove

you to develop the project?

Well, what drove me to this project?

I mean, I've been in the industry for

over 20 years now, and it's always the

same problem, right?

Trying to fix the system that...

Well, the problem is that we have a 21st

century disease burden, but we still have

a 21st century system to deal with it.

And what I mean by that is if you look at

the healthcare system as it is now, and

when I'm saying all this, by the way,

it's not pointing the finger and saying,

"Oh, this is very bad," especially not

other people who work in that system

because they're amazing people that save

life on a daily basis, right?

But this is exactly it.

They save life on a daily basis because

it's an acute care system.

However, if you want to deal with the

problem of today, which are a massive

burden for individuals,

communities, governments,

whether it's economical, social burden,

it's diseases that are multi-factorials

that develop over decades, if not more,

and that we cannot treat as a one-cause

effect sort of scenario, which we do with

the healthcare system.

So if you go with anxiety, chronic

anxiety, let's say, and see the

healthcare system, they will treat you

with one single solution,

which is medication, right?

But it's not the source of the problem.

What is the source of the problem?

And this is where we want to find out

because we want to eradicate the issue

here before it becomes a bigger problem.

And yeah, I think it comes from there.

It's like, how can we create a system

that is about predictive prevention that

is in real time, but that is very much

personalized because it's a reality.

The healthcare system, as it is now, is

an average treat people as average, but

we are not average people.

We're all very different and we need to

have this very hyper-personalized

approach if we want to fix things.

And we also need a system that actually

includes the person in the middle,

because Reiner is very fragmented, is

very siloed, and you only go there when

you break down, and in between,

you're on your own, right?

And you don't know how to

participate in your health.

And with this sort of context, you're

almost like, "Oh, I don't know what to do

because I'm not a doctor."

But actually, when it

comes to prevention,

the fundamentals are lifestyle, diet,

environment, because this is what are the

issues of today to

develop the disease of today.

Yes, you cannot do brain

surgery, but that's acute care.

You don't need that, right?

Well, I hope we don't need that.

And this is where the idea of VITAX came,

is to create a system of our time where

with all the data we collect based on

someone's goals, how can we make

something that is real-time and give

nudges for you to adjust in real time and

put you back in this road of recovery or

actually de-aging pretty much, right?

Because we know that all those diseases

as well are aging-related diseases.

So how we can do all this is about making

you at the center of it.

And it has to be behavioral-centric.

But based on your data,

that is the idea of the platform.

And this is what we're doing now.

And then it's to really try to develop a

model where later, and I think we

shouldn't underestimate how things are

progressing very fast nowadays,

where we want to remove

people from their dashboard, right?

Or things like that.

Go outside.

And one of the real pillar

of longevity is communities.

Go outside and share.

So try to make things ambient in the

sense that you are being monitored if

things are going wrong and you're being

nudged only for adjustment.

And everything works

as an orchestra for you.

And that is the idea, is to create an

ecosystem where you have an end-to-end

system that works for

you in the background.

And you're being told, "Okay, you've done

very well because this

is your top priority.

This is your protocol.

And you've been doing

this for three weeks.

And you have, let's say for me, you have

reduced your insulin resistance by 30%

and decreased your chances of type 2

diabetes by 50% and

looking at numbers, right?

But that means also that your biological

age has reduced of five years in the last

three months, right?

And this is powerful because that is

something that is tangible,

that is prioritized, and that's real-time

predictive prevention.

Now, it's incredibly powerful information

to have because I also think it creates a

lot of accountability for

the individual in question too.

If you, it's, I mean, I suppose the

closest thing that we have today is maybe

a diabetic on an insulin pump or who has

a CGM or someone who is regularly

watching their weight.

But if you don't have that sort of

immediate feedback, you're not going to

be able to course correct, are you?

So I think from that perspective alone,

this sort of technology is amazing.

Yeah.

And also, do you actually

need this feedback, right?

Is that for you?

And this can be also monitored by a

practitioner, right?

So if things are clinical, it should

always involve a practitioner anyway.

Yeah.

That's a question I have

for you a little later on.

Thomas, I'd love to dive a little deeper

if that's okay into the SHG, the SHG

framework, if that's okay.

Now, from what I remember, it's sort of

compromised, not compromised, are four

pillars, mainly predictive, proactive,

personalized, and participatory.

Now, I know you sort of covered that to

some extent already, but would you just

mind running through each of these in a

little more detail and then, yeah, maybe

we could bring them all

together for the audience.

Yeah.

So the SHG is just a name in a smart

paper, but it's for a

small health ecosystem.

And the pillar really predictive is about

using biomarker and AI to identify risks

before symptom appear, right?

As simple as that.

It's a bit like, you know, if you know,

and I'll give you a concrete example,

you're in London, and by

your door, you have an umbrella.

If you look at the weather forecast, and

it's 20% chances of rain, maybe not going

to take that umbrella.

If you have 50% of rain,

you might take the umbrella.

If it's 80% of rain or more, you're going

to take the umbrella and the rain cold.

This is how we should

approach our health, I think.

And this is what is right

now my most important priority.

So what is my priority for me to not age

quicker than my chronological age and

actually decrease that, right?

So decrease my pace of aging, let's say,

by addressing one of my most important,

you know, things that I need to do.

So it can be everything.

Let's take again, insulin

sensitivity, inflammation.

Those are very important

things, stress management, right?

Was all very common.

And what can I do right now to prevent

this to happen with those biomarkers and

my symptoms, and potentially even, you

know, if you can applaud those things or

those data, a lot of people

are wearing wearables nowadays.

And how can you make it proactive, right?

So, proactive in a sense that the system

help you, guide you on your journey by

giving you little nudges.

You know, if you're very stressed and

you're low in magnesium and your cortisol

is very high, hey, don't forget your

magnesium tonight, or, you know, what

about doing a little two minute breathing

exercise in the middle of the day, right?

Because your cortisol is

spiking or your HRT is high, right?

So that's low, sorry.

So your stress response is very high, so

this is the sort of things

that will keep you in check.

And the more you do those things, it's

also about creating this behavior of

self-awareness and actually building

habits that are relevant to you.

And what I like about AI is we'll learn

from you and you will

learn from each other.

And you can, when you talk about AI,

we're not choosing chatty-pity, by the

way, it's our own system.

My co-founder, Christian Schwartz, can

look it up on LinkedIn,

is a top guy when it comes to AI.

And, I mean, I've learned so much the

last six months, which is crazy.

But we're talking about AI machine

learning, having our own system with

rules and we keep on learning about you.

And then personalized in a sense that

based on all of those data,

based on what you want to do,

what can you do as a protocol based on

your preferences, on

your goals, your lifestyle?

How can we actually make this as

frictionless as possible for you?

I like the idea of helping you, guiding

you and trying to make it as less

friction as possible because

we want to simplify your life.

We don't want to give you another thing

to do, another thing to do.

But when it's necessary to invite you

into doing things and hopefully to do

this within a community and help you to

achieve those goals.

And this is where participatory comes

from, is about you being in charge.

You probably heard a lot about

being your CEO of your health.

So it's a bit this way.

It's like you can set your own goal.

I mean, I have goals about,

I want to limit my gray hair.

But there's actually, when you're doing

that, there's markers, we know, there's

genetic, there's certain supplementation.

So, okay, this is your goal.

Fine.

Your priority is this and this.

This is what we want you to do.

But if you want to do

that on top, you can do that.

And this is what you can do for it and

see the improvements of the time.

So yeah, this is the idea

really of these four pillars.

And by doing this, we are most

importantly, reversing

the trend from a reactive,

a little too late model to a proactive

take things early on, learn, implement,

and make the changes that counts to

actually have a big impact in the long

term, in both social impact, individual

impact, and the economy even, because if

we don't change anything now, it's a 47

trillion dollar debt that

we have with the healthcare.

It's collapsing everywhere.

It's not sustainable.

We have to do something.

And unfortunately, why now is still not

the top emergency on

most government agenda.

It has to start with us.

If it starts with us,

legislation will follow.

Oh, definitely.

And I think that, I still think that if

you, if anyone ultimately wanted to

change the world and they sort of came to

sort of global power, I think the one

thing that would change the world faster

than anything else would be to focus on

healthcare and then focus on people being

sound metabolic health.

Because when you improve health, you

improve psychological outcomes, you

improve an individual's ability to create

wealth, to improve their financial state.

And it just has that trickle down effect.

But the moment you're sort of stuck in

this state of ill health as an

individual, as a society, everything else

just collapses

subsequently and as a result of that.

So I think, yeah, I can only praise you

that this project is incredible and I

really look forward to seeing it develop.

Thomas, I'd love to go take another step

back if that's okay and chat about the

e-code, the sort of system again from

maybe from a product or from

a sort of a wearable hardware

side of things.

Now, I imagine there'll be some buy-in in

terms of hardware that's needed.

Things like your wearables,

your devices, things like that.

Now, a few years ago, I don't, I wouldn't

have foreseen this to be an issue because

you bought something like an auto ring or

your Woot band and that was it.

And you just used it and you

got the data that you needed.

Now, everything is on

a subscription model.

So you're not necessarily only just

buying the product, you're obviously

having to pay for its use monthly.

Obviously, from a business standpoint,

from an individual, for individual

companies, that makes a lot of sense.

That's a great way of creating recurrent

revenue for your brand.

But obviously, for the average

individuals, those bills

all are going to add up.

What do you feel about this idea in

general within the health space?

And obviously, that's a speculative.

And maybe to add to

that, what do you think,

again, speculatively is a good sort of

baseline point of admission to in terms

of wearable tech that individuals should

be looking to utilize or acquire when

trying to make the most

of a platform like VTX?

Yeah, I mean, you can go from the basic

to the specialized, right?

So obviously, if you just counting steps,

you know, it might not be enough for

certain goals you may have.

However, if you're getting started,

and metabolic health is a top priority,

that's already quite valuable, right?

Because that's very easy.

And that's something, okay, I need to do

those 10,000 steps a day.

And then on top of the nutrition and

rubber, and that's already making a

massive change enough to potentially

prevent things, right?

Now, if you want to be specialized, and

you go very targeted, and you're like a

biohacker, and yeah, you want to have

more data, the more data is to debate up

to get a clearer, more defined, more

hyper personalized picture.

But let's do thing here.

The first thing is,

whatever data you have, you may have, if

you carry a phone like this,

you already have Apple Health.

And a lot already is

being tracked, right?

And what are the like the idea of is to

create universal upload of data.

So something for sure, we are doing on

this platform is allowing people to

upload their data for free, whatever data

they have, and to get

already some insights,

preferences, goals, and everything sort

of already will make

sense to for an individual.

Now,

the second thing is, the amazing thing

about AI and machine learning, and the

more it develops, the

better it becomes at predicting,

and making assumptions based on your

lifestyle, your diet, your environment.

So what something that AI is amazing at

is that looking at all those data,

and understanding which one are relevant

based on your goals, your

preferences, your symptoms.

And then suddenly, you

don't have 100 things to track.

So then maybe we can recommend you this

is the best thing for you to track.

You don't have to have 20 devices, right?

It can just be one for now.

And then once you have learned the

habits, maybe yes, now, because you have

changed this, and you have lost a lot of

weight, and you love training,

and you want to increase your value to

max, because you got hooked

by the whole thing of training.

Yeah, get to boot back, why not?

This, there's another thing, actually.

But what about if all of those data,

which by the way, something that is very

close to my heart is data ownership, full

data ownership means

your data remain your data.

And you should be able to opt in or opt

out to share those data.

But let's say you're opting to share

those data, those data have value.

And the value should be going back to

you, not to, and this is why let's not

talk about the two, three and me.

But this model didn't work probably

because basically take data off someone

and you make money out of it.

This is the old school way of doing it.

And I think we need to have a lot more

sustainable approach where you have your

own data, it's your

health data, you own them.

And if you wish to share them,

you should be rewarded for it.

And maybe you should be rewarded by

discounts or even freebies of this type

of wearables and have the one that you

need and you want based on your goal,

your preferences, and

also your health symptoms.

So there is ways of doing it.

I'm not saying we're doing it now,

maybe.

But it's important to look at things

first of how, where the trends are going,

and what can we do with what we have now

to make those things

a lot more accessible.

Yeah, definitely.

I'm still very analog.

I find that for most people and the

clients that I do work with things like,

for me, I think a CGM, maybe a digital

BEP cuff, and then occasionally tracking

HRV are probably the tools in an analog

capacity, of course, that you can sort of

glean the most information from, purely

from just a metabolic health standpoint.

And I think those are, for me, would

probably be if somebody really wants to

start investigating their health beyond

the sort of the basics or the core key

blood work, those are

great tools to start off with.

Thomas, I'd love to get back to this

idea, sort of sovereignty and data

ownership again, and all of that.

It was something I was going to ask you

later on, but I think this is a great

time to discuss the point.

Now, until recently, sort of companies

owning my data never actually bothered me

because I didn't actually sort of see it

as being a major issue.

Yeah, I've got my own 23andMe data, and

I've had 10 emails telling me that

somebody else has stolen it at

least once every other month.

And I thought, okay, so what?

Somebody knows my genetics.

But I've since sort of started to learn

and wake up to the fact, and maybe just

grow up and be a little less naive, that

there is really an issue with companies

owning your data, and they can start to

sort of impact the way that you're

insured, for example, healthcare, etc.

Would you be able to sort of expand upon

that and why, as a society, we should

actually be so protective of our data,

especially our health data?

I think this

is your health data.

Again, if we can secure them in a

encrypted way, let's say, for you,

and nobody has access to them, only if

you want to share them, right?

I think it should be the way forward.

And actually, this should

be supported by legislation.

There's different reasons.

Obviously, we don't want to go into the

utopian version of you have your DNA data

leaked in someday, in a far, far utopian

future, someone will make a

personalized bio weapon for you.

But at least looking at your data, and

yes, having an insurance, like, you've

got high risks of cancer, let's say,

because of this gene.

First thing is false, like in the sense

that you can have a high risk variant of

something, let's say, apogee form, which

is related to Alzheimer, but it doesn't

necessarily mean you will

develop the disease, right?

It's the same with BRCA1 and BRCA2.

Actually,

breast cancer is not the gene, it's your

lifestyle, your diet, your environment,

the epigenetics that will amplify the

expression of that gene.

So yes, if you have this gene and you

drink every day, and you're stressed, and

you're very low in vitamin

D, that would be a problem.

But if you do all the right things, it

won't be a problem at all.

So that's the first thing is to make sure

that there is also accuracy in how those

institutions are thinking.

And the second thing is, basically not

have access to those

data without your content.

But actually, if you want to share them,

because you're doing the right thing, you

should rip off the benefits of having a

premium at a discount.

And it's also giving the opportunity to

solve a problem like cohort compiling for

research, for example.

Let's say the platform like

Ondos is over 100,000 users.

And it's interesting to see that you can

potentially, people have their data

there, and it's all secure, and Ondos

will never share data.

But if you were to have a system that

allows you to switch on or switch off

your data access to a research institute,

you could be part of a cohort.

And this is Imperial College, you want to

do a study on this, and your genes is

matching, you are the right

age bracket, blah, blah, blah.

And you could get free testing and plus

potentially be paid.

And for Imperial College, trying to

advance something and cover something

that could help the whole

population, that is beneficial.

So it's not the same angle of trying to

sell a data set to pharma

to make a single drug use.

Let's not go there.

But it's a very different ecosystem here.

And I think this is where we should, the

legislation should look at things and

say, okay, this should be allowed.

And this is how it should be.

And this should not be, right?

Because that's just pure for profits.

So this is my stand on it anyway.

And probably, you know, some investor

would probably not like that.

But I think this is where it's going. 70%

of people now are happy to share the data

for insight, but they're not happy to

share their data if they know they're

going to be used for profit.

And there is a real awakening about this.

And it's normal, I believe.

Yeah, no, I think it is.

It's starting to sort of develop in

society as to why people's data is not

only important, but it's a value to them.

It's not to just binary information on

the internet that someone is just going

to utilize to sort of take email address

and sort of send you an offer for the

latest, I don't know, TV ad, whatever.

It is definitely a value.

Thomas, I'd love to sort of pick your

brains about what I think about from time

to time, which is the

Wi-Fi and EMF piece.

Now, obviously, when we start to talk

about AI and technology, that's going to

start to sort of come to

the forefront a bit more.

Now, I'm not a physicist.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm a chemist.

I understand what these non-native

signals can do to the

body to some extent anyway.

And I do believe that where there's

smoke, there's fire.

Now, how much things like Wi-Fi are

actually detrimental to human

physiology is up for debate.

However,

and they're definitely

hard to get away from.

For everybody's best efforts, I mean, you

have 5G everywhere now,

whether that's an issue or not.

You have obviously Wi-Fi broadband and

now Elon Musk's

Starlink satellite's going up.

So we're constantly surrounded by that

sort of Wi-Fi exposure.

What do you think of this in terms of, I

suppose, mixing healthcare, AI together?

Do you think this is broadly speaking an

issue, or do you feel sort of this

electromagnetic hypersensitivity piece is

a bit blown out of proportion?

Well, blown out of proportion, it depends

where you stand on it.

But there is definitely an impact, right?

It's for sure.

And we are electric currents after all.

So it definitely has an impact on us.

I would definitely not leave somewhere

where there is those 5G antenna.

And we know we studied.

It's as many papers, it's various impact

on your health, on your

sleep, on a lot of things.

So I guess, what is the solution there?

And I don't have the solution, but I

would definitely think that with the

progress being made and it's things we

need to adapt and to

potentially find solution for.

We are already making biodiesel, why not

one day, sort of making a hub find

solution for sort of

emission free internet, right?

So I don't think it's stupid of thinking

that because, well, things are

progressing very fast.

And there's always some innovation that's

like, wow, blow your mind,

especially, you know, probably in two,

three years time, AI might find a

solution for us, not for us, but from us,

but maybe AI itself.

So maybe I'm not hyper optimistic.

I'm a founder.

So maybe it's a character trait

of being very optimistic on this, but I

hope we will find a solution that because

using AI and as a tool will

definitely improve our life.

And we obviously need

a connection for that.

And yeah, just to see how,

what are the alternatives.

So I'm not an expert on this particular

field, but I'm quite hopeful

that we will find solution.

And at least what we can do now again is

to track the effects on us and to

understand this more.

And it's maybe a first step to understand

it more, to really raise this as not a

hoax, but as actually not a conspiracy

theory, but actually as a fact.

Now that it is a fact, validated as a

fact, what can we do with it?

What is the first step?

Because something that we realize is

we're sort of running out of

conspiracy theory nowadays.

So yeah.

Yeah.

No, thank you for that.

It's great to get your opinion there.

And for anyone who is interested in the

wifi piece, the non-native EMF field

piece, I invite you to listen to the

podcast I did recently with Tristan

Scott, who really is,

he's an electrical engineer.

I'm sure you're familiar with him.

He's helping to run

daylight in future at the moment.

Of interest, I think is the fact that I

don't know if you've heard of LiFi.

They are a web, they're obviously an EMF,

an EMF based protocol that utilizes light

to transmit information

instead of wifi radiation.

But that is, yeah, that was something

that will hopefully

develop as time progresses.

Okay.

So Thomas, another question about VTX.

The way I said it's definitely at the

moment, it's aimed at, well, it is.

It's aimed at helping people to maintain

their health or maybe people with sort of

mild health challenges

reclaim their health.

But I think what I'm interested in seeing

the tech, where I'm interested in seeing

the technology go would be where,

would it be able to help us say issues

like, or do you have any plans to

integrate it into more

sort of acute conditions?

So do your autoimmune illness conditions,

your things like your post viral

fatigues, complex metabolic issues.

Do you have any plans in regard to

getting the technology to that point?

Or is your aim at this

point solely preventative?

Yeah, I mean, this is

part of prevention, right?

And I think is from fatigue, chronic

fatigue to diabetic to early, you know,

early sort of cancer markers, and the

interconnection between those different

things are very important.

So obviously, you don't want to through a

platform tell someone you have an high

risk of developing a cancer.

And this is why having a practitioner in

the loop monitoring is very important.

And I think understanding this sort of

biosignals to catch all the deviation

before this is start of progressing is

definitely a goal, right?

So mitochondrial dysfunction in fatigue

is identified via genomics,

for example, already, right?

And then so you tie up the HRB, right?

And certain nutrient depletion.

And that's already a sort of cocktail

that can really help

with your chronic fatigue.

So what are you deficient on, you know,

you're suboptimal in vitamin D, you're

suboptimal in vitamin B12, B9, B1,

you're, you know, all

those different things.

And you're very stressed.

That's where you start and try to address

all those points, and see the change over

time and see the symptoms over time.

Is it still chronic fatigue now?

Well, actually, no,

I'm feeling much better.

I have a lot, I don't have this

afternoon's stop anymore.

And oh, maybe it's because you're, you

know, your your B vitamins and your

vitamin Ds are back to optimal ranges.

Because that was your protocol in the

last few weeks, right?

And you're less burnout because you're

implementing breath work on an everyday

basis, which only takes you

three minutes by the way, right?

There's very simple things to reduce

cortisol and remove stress,

which is just breath work.

It's just how breath, right?

So it's easy.

And there's many techniques I'm not going

to go through there, but it's easy.

You just,

you know, yeah, it's very easy.

So, yeah, definitely.

I hope you answered your question.

No, it does.

And you sort of, you've brought up an

interesting point about doctors and sort

of the systems working

alongside physicians.

Where do you,

obviously, currently you still see

physicians as being vital

to this picture as a whole.

But in the coming years, as you sort of

get to this point of AGI, and as the

technology was developed, do you think

there will still be a place for

physicians in this picture going forward,

say in the next 10 years?

Definitely, because, well, you have the,

we talked about the acute care system

where you're basically

a firefighter, right?

But I think doctors should see, see

themselves merging instead of like, oh,

you're the picture of health, which is

the answer mostly when you have a

condition, but, you

know, your bloods are normal.

Looking into guiding someone into

improving over time to remove

the source of those problems.

So I see this physician to be guiding

people, users to manage the complexity

while AI handled the routine, but it

needs to obviously be

validated by the practitioner.

So this protocol is relevant because the

AI looked at all of the data, which will

take probably a month to a practitioner

to do the Charlo Com works, if you look

at a lot of data, right?

And this is the, you know, the outcome.

And this is actually very interesting for

the practitioner because it's a summary,

and this is what we should do.

And I think we should accept more and

more to work this way to use with

technology to accept, but actually, yes,

there is, and it will be even more

better, I would say, at

making the right conclusion.

Already now in Rajuloji

and all those different

thing, we, you know,

AI is already better.

So we need to accept this.

That's, you know, and the IQ will be

around 1500 within two years, which we'll

never be able to do.

And it's a way scary, but if we use it as

a tool for better outcomes for the

physician is better.

And then obviously the

emotional touch of guiding, right?

So a physician

will help on, you know, guiding this

through the emotion of

the thing and supporting.

So this compassionate guidance, I would

say, that's not something

in the eye can do, right?

So we need this.

So I think the AI will

handle the what and when,

so to speak, and the doctors will indulge

the why and the how, right?

This is how I said.

Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.

And I definitely don't think physicians

are going away anytime soon.

I do think that ultimately, their

positions might change, sort of, as you

alluded to, and then they may be almost

more patient care coordinators maybe

going forward, at least sort

of at a sort of a GP level.

And then obviously, this integration of

AI will really help to just improve

patient health outcomes.

Because I think that's something that the

traditional model really struggles with

and is throttled by is just this lack of

time as you alluded to at the very

beginning of our conversation.

It's not that doctors are

useless or that they don't try it.

They just they are at the mercy of a

system that doesn't actually really

support patient care.

It supports if there's a financial

incentive, ultimately, and you are just

pushed through, you're given your 10

minutes in the doctor's office.

Because the system is designed, the

system is the problem, right?

It's not a doctor, obviously, is the

system is designed for the doctor to be a

responder, not a curator of care, right?

And we want to flip the script here and

to just do that to allow the doctor to

focus on what is best at.

So being human

interpretation, complex decision,

and, you know,

this, again, this

compassionate guidance, right?

And I think it's also a guiding and

helping hand for doctors and

practitioners, because nobody wants to be

under all this paperwork and to be under

the Charler-Cone's work between lab

reports sometimes can

be, you know, very tiring.

And when you realize you're missing some,

you know, important information, but you

have not been given before, and then you

have to redo the whole thing.

It's like, all those

things can be improved.

And that is with the

help of digital AI and tech.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I do appreciate that point.

And I mean, I think it's that's fairly

consistent in any service-based industry.

I mean, my parents are teachers.

I know plenty of doctors and all of them

moan about the amount of

administrative paperwork.

I mean, yeah, administrative work that's

building up is fair.

And people are able to spend, in these

professions, seemingly are able to spend

less time with their patients as they

have to deal with more and more red tape.

So if this sort of infrastructure going

forwards can even offload a lot of that,

I think it would just improve outcomes.

It's, AI will amplify, right?

It will not reflect to

come back to the things.

And in the VxOS,

what we were talking about is helping

about detecting subtle

trends before base scale, okay?

And provide a sort of risk assessment and

suggestions already to the doctor.

And then this is about

automating a health journey.

And having done already a

bit of a triage and reminders,

while the physician will validate,

contextualize those insights.

And I think this is very important.

And make all those clinical decisions on

diagnostic and therapies, because you

don't want to leave that to AI, right?

So yeah, I think it's,

yeah, I see the doctors becoming more of

a relationship-based care sort of thing.

Coaching and patient

education and handling

Yeah, and I'll see this a very

sign-in-bout, sign-in-biotic

relationship, right?

So the AI will help for the precision.

And the doctor again, will bring this

wisdom and the empathy, right?

Yeah, no, I again, I couldn't agree more.

And I think it's just going to streamline

healthcare going forward.

Thomas, I know we're starting to slowly

come up against time.

But I'd love to ask you about the pilot

project that you have VTX.

I think it's based in New York, if I'm

not, if I'm not incorrect.

Can you tell us a little about that?

Excuse me, can you tell

us a little more about it?

Sort of the good, the bad, ugly, what

you've learned and sort of how you sort

of envisage the rollout going forward as

a result of this project?

Well, first, you know,

there's a lot of top secret there,

to a certain extent.

But the, what I can say is, and it comes

back to the viewpoint we've just

highlighted is, it's really important to

have AI and the

practitioners, doctors in the same group,

and putting all of it within a clinic,

which I wouldn't call a clinic.

But let's say a wellness hub for

precision prevention is very powerful.

If you can have an

operating system and try to,

we have, again, we have a very strong

accurate care system in

place, an establishment.

But what about having an establishment

where it's all about predictive

prevention in real time, and looking at

in a city environment,

a smart city, let's say,

the doctor is actually monitoring and

reaching out to someone when things

becoming more or less clinical to stay

below that clinical range and make sure

that we are in the prevention

and real time optimization.

And that is possible

within a clinic environment.

And you can see them

as tower control almost,

where you can have intervention, targeted

intervention in real

time for health utilization.

And another thing, this is really

something that I would

like to achieve there.

That is the first layer.

And the second layer,

which is a bit more top secret,

but what about creating something that

your home is monitoring you?

Because, again, those

things will start to disappear.

And I think with AI, things to like,

those dashboard and

everything will become ambient.

And if your home can track you in the

background as an orchestra, you go to

your bathroom, you do your daily routine,

you do your things, and this data, right?

You're urine, your stool sample, your

microbiome, you already have like, you

know, you can collect

hundreds of biomarkers.

You're going to put

regenerous stuff out of business.

Sorry?

You're going to put

regenerous out of business.

Obviously, I'm part of the founding team.

But it's a reality, things evolve, right?

The only constant is change.

And I think it's where it's going.

But if you have an operating system, but

when you told you with the clinic

structure, and the professional,

a bit like a tower control of planes,

when the red dots, this goes out of path.

Oh, let's reach out to

this client and invite him.

And we already know the reason why this

person goes out of the path, right?

Because of those markers, if it's fixable

by lifestyle, diet and environment, we

can give them nudges, specific protocol

without them coming.

If they need to, if they want to speed up

the process, and maybe your hyperbaric

chamber is going to help them, because

this is post COVID symptoms related,

maybe they need a bit

more oxygen in their blood.

That will be helpful as to that, okay, if

you don't want to do

that, the still those options.

And things are a bit more

clinical, you're really

suboptimal on those things.

Come and do an ID on those things.

Maybe, you know,

that's real time predictive prevention,

and scalable to a level

of, you know, smart cities.

And then you have a model that you can

potentially expand as something that is

interconnected, real

time, and deliver results.

It's incredible.

And it's something I'm

personally excited about.

I think that maybe it's just the inner

sort of biology geek in me, but I think

having this sort of this information is

not only exciting, but it's ultimately

sort of just life changing, and it will

be life changing for so many people.

Thomas, you've been a star.

Before I let you go, would you be open to

answering a few rapid fire questions?

Rapid fire questions.

Rapid fire questions.

Yes, they're never rapid fire.

I have yet to.

I think that's normally my fault, but

let's see if we can give it a go.

Okay.

What's your favorite wearable device?

Whoop.

The reason for this is because I lost two

URAR rings in the sea.

So I didn't want to lose a third one

because, you know, not cheap.

And I'm a swimmer.

So and I like to swim in the sea and

yeah, it just doesn't work.

So I whoop.

The reason is well, I like to track my

workouts and I like to see being working

usually under stress

and intense, let's say.

HRV is a good marker or stress monitor is

a good marker for me to look at.

And sleep is super important for me if I

want to perform what I do.

And as training is on a daily basis, you

know, I have my time block

for it and I like to track.

And also if I see that, you know, the

combination of too much training and too

much work, I know where I need to recover

and potentially do something later.

Right.

So yeah, this is why I like whoop.

And especially now they're launching

those health sort of

lifespan, health span, sorry.

Very excited to unlock this among you

like three or four

days away of unlocking it.

You need it to be 21 days.

I just ascribe to it.

So let's see.

Let's see what it gives.

Yeah, that's my answer.

Trying to sort of fire it right now.

That's fun.

That's fun.

Like I said, these are never quick.

Anyway, yeah, no, I've I saw Chris

Williamson had a podcast with

the founder of Whoop recently.

And yeah, I'm very, I'm looking forward

to the new generation there.

I'll definitely be emailing you and

asking you some questions after the fact.

Okay, besides healthcare, what are you

most excited about in terms of AI?

Which sort of industry do you are you

most excited to see it

get into and develop?

Architecture, design, also something that

I really like outside of tech.

Yeah, but that's fine.

That's a far one.

That's a far one.

Yeah, no, I know

nothing about architecture.

If you asked me to build

something, it would fall down.

So okay, if you could only track one

biomarker for overall

health, what would it be?

I think it would be yeah, I mean, HIV,

the reason being is HIV can

be a lot of things like stress,

obviously the sleep quality, but also can

be showing potentially

sign of chronic inflammation.

If you really don't get this HIV back on

track, and especially because once you

start linking HIV to over biomarkers,

it's become very interesting.

And for me personally, it is, but also

it's quite accessible, right?

You don't need to test and something that

is dynamic, which is like as well.

So you can quickly change your HIV based

on your lifestyle, your

diet environment, right?

So if I decide to go for dinner tonight,

have a glass of wine, I know it's going

to be very bad tomorrow.

But if I do a breathwork session, or when

I go swimming in the

sea, it will be to the roof.

And so yeah, it's very

reactive, which I like.

Yeah, perfect answer.

Thank you for that.

Okay, two more.

There's a lot of interest in the sort of,

I suppose, the health world at the moment

about trying to optimize health sort of

based off sort of single gene

polymorphisms, like MTHFR.

And all of a sudden, if you can try just

sort of dial in this one gene, you can

improve all aspects of your health.

I think I know your answer.

Yeah, this is not about MTHFR saying,

"Oh, it sounds like a squared world."

But I really think it does,

especially the way it is used.

I think it's overrated

to just use MTHFR 100%.

It's marketing, I'd say.

We know that yes, your genes are

important, but a single gene on its own

is just one better point is

far from the whole picture.

And I mean, I've wrote

a book about it in 2015.

I talk about MTHFR,

but alone has little value

and always has been my stand.

Mitillation pathways are

complex and it's not just one gene.

You have comped, you have

like, there's plenty of others.

And also, it needs to be

analyzed as a whole, right?

We've been moving a context.

If you have MTHFR issue and

you are a 55 years old woman,

it's very different if you

are a 25 years old, you go male.

And what does it mean?

So also, what is your goal?

Where are you right now

in your health journey?

And what are all the other

genes, variation and

biomarkers that are related to that?

So the B-litanins, all those different

things, and detoxification pathways.

So yeah, sorry, long answer, but I

couldn't go forever on this because it

doesn't always mean sometimes.

I mean, I don't get it, but yeah, I think

it's sometimes very much

misused for marketing reason.

No, I agree completely.

And now you've actually answered my next

one, which is what you would think of

polygenic risk scores.

But I think you've already answered that

right in the idea that you

think it's valuable for sure.

Again, because a single

SNP is just noise, right?

And it has minimal

impact and little context.

Well,

polygenic score, in contrast, I think

it's you know, combining thousands of

genetic variants into

a meaningful pattern.

And if you interpret this correctly,

they reveal your, you know, your genetic

predisposition and your score, your risks

of where you should be focusing on.

And yeah, it's powerful

for prevention, for sure.

Yeah, definitely is.

Thomas, you've been a

star and an amazing guest.

Where can people find you if they'd like

to connect or learn more about VTAX or

your other projects?

So Thomas Olivier on LinkedIn,

vtaix.health, if people want to join the

waiting list, there's a lot

of amazing things coming up.

The name might change, by the way.

Yes, we want to have

more of the user interface.

But being saved at

x.health is the website for now.

And yeah, I invite people

to be part of this new era.

Perfect.

And I'm sure the domain will redirect if

you do change the

name and we'll update it.

So perfect.

Thank you so much for your time.

It's been a pleasure chatting.

And I look forward to

doing so again in the future.

Likewise.

Speak to you soon.

Thank you very much.