Margaret Feinberg Audio

[00:00:00] The Missional Life Podcast, inspiring Kingdom-minded believers around the world to live the mission of God in their lives.

Dan: All right. Welcome back to Micheli podcast. Today we have Margaret Feinberg on the show. Margaret is a beloved bible teacher, bestselling author, and host of the Joy Cast Podcast. Her latest book, the God You Need to Know, dives deep into the Old Testament to uncover the powerful and often overlooked work of the Holy Spirit before Pentecost, through her thoughtful, biblical insights and heartfelt storytelling.

Margaret challenges us to experience spiritual renewal and a deeper connection with the spirit of God. Margaret, welcome to the show.

Margaret: Welcome. What a delight. We're gonna have so much fun today. I can't wait. Yes,

Dan: absolutely. Let's just get into it. Your new book that God You Need to Know, takes a unique route by exploring the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.

What led you to start? [00:01:00] That journey of rediscovery.

Margaret: I grew up in a family where we moved around a ton and whenever we moved, we went to a different church. And so I grew up in Southern Baptist, Episcopal, Presbyterian, non-denominational charisma. I mean like kind of a spiritual mut. But wherever we went, I would ask about Holy Spirit and I would get very different answers.

And some people were a little bit on the spectrum of, we don't really talk about that here. And other people were like, that's all we talk about. , And I, I saw at times some of the some people maybe using Holy Spirit to, to justify things that. Probably weren't from God at all. I saw some of the abuse that can come out of that.

And some of the unhealthy things as well as the hesitancy and experienced, you know, some woundedness myself along the way. It wasn't a topic I really ever wanted to write about. And a few years ago decided, okay, you know it's been enough years, it's been enough. Decades have gone by.

This is something I wanna look at. And what I realized is that when often I would ask about Holy Spirit, almost. Almost exclusively people would send me to the Book of Acts and often a [00:02:00] Pentecost, and it makes perfect sense. It's where the spirit is poured out in the New Testament. The only problem with that is that going and jumping to the Book of Acts and particularly Acts two and Pentecost, in order to counter the Holy Spirit, well, first of all, my life.

Doesn't look like that at all. Like I don't say a few words and thousands of people come to know Jesus and there's tongues of fire and wind. I mean, this isn't I, that is not my daily life problem, number one. Problem number two is if I go there, it's kind of like, it's kinda like showing up in your wedding.

And being like, this is, is is you're gonna marry. And you're like, but who is this? Did we date? Did we court? What do we know about you? Did we ever fall in love? And I think as I was sorting through, I began to realize most books look at Holy Spirit in the New Testament. And I found this scholar out of Texas by the name of Jack Levinson, and he really focused his work on Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.

When I started reading his work, I mean, I just came alive. I was like, oh my goodness, this makes so much [00:03:00] more sense. Sense. So I began to write this book in this Bible study starting to look at Holy Spirit through the major turns in, in the moments of history throughout Israel's history. And, and as you start to understand and know Holy Spirit from the very beginning and moving through when you arrive at Acts two, then you think, oh.

This is normal. Of course it would happen this way. It's consistent with who Holy Spirit has been all along, and it's really been transformative, I think, in my own life and understanding of the work and the power and the presence of Holy Spirit, and it's made it a whole lot less weird.

Dan: Wow. Wow. That's really good.

Before we get too deep, , I'm hearing language and I wanna make sure that we as listeners, 'cause we actually say oftentimes when we're talking we say Holy Spirit, but many people say the. Holy Spirit. And so can you define why you address Holy Spirit as Holy Spirit, not the Holy Spirit?

Margaret: Yeah. At a conference a number of years ago, I think it was an Alpha conference actually. I remember a [00:04:00] woman getting up and talking about Holy Spirit without lava, and I was like, I was at utterly raptured. Like, I don't know what else she said that day, but I remember that. It really stuck with me because what I realized is that language is so powerful.

I mean, our words shape, our thoughts, our minds, our actions, and I'd grown up saying the Holy Spirit. But when you put the in front of Holy Spirit, it almost makes Holy Spirit an entity. Rather than a person and, and Holy Spirit is a person of the Godhead. If somebody was like I prayed to Va Jesus today would be like, that's weird, right?

We'd be like, who is VA Jesus? Like what are we, can I buy one of those? And I don't even know. Like, is that a figurine? No, it's Jesus. Jesus a person. Jesus is Son God. And I realized that by changing my language, just calling Holy Spirit, holy Spirit, it's like, oh yeah. That's a person, that's the person of the Godhead.

And it's really shifted for me, and I've gotta know what causes you guys to use that language? When was your turning point? Or did you always call Holy Spirit? That,

Amanda: Actually in Colorado, we talked about before recording, that we both have lived there before. [00:05:00] But when we, um, were around friends at the church, we went to, I took notice that they said Holy Spirit, and I thought.

Huh. I had that same reaction, but in that setting, not a conference, but with my friend, I thought, that's interesting. I've always said the Holy Spirit, but it makes a lot more sense. So what you were saying resonated so much.

Margaret: Yeah. That's beautiful.

Dan: That's

Margaret: really cool.

Dan: As you've dug super deep into the topic, I'm just wondering, like What was the one of the most surprising appearances or roles of Holy Spirit? In the Old Testament?

Margaret: Oh my goodness, there are so many. Okay. Can I bible nerd out for a second?

Dan: Yeah,

Margaret: of course. Yeah. I love this so much. Okay, there's this passage I stumbled upon. I don't even know if I wrote about it in the book 'cause I keep reading and finding more.

You're like, oh, it just doesn't end. 'Cause that's the way the Bible works. But, numbers 11, we got Moses and he's super burnout fried, like a crispy pie, like he is just. Over it. He's leading the Israelites. They're complaining. He is like, I wanna quit. I kind of wanna die. Which if you've been in [00:06:00] ministry for very long, you may have felt similar things.

It's just part of the journey. I know, I know. Somebody's like, what? No, everybody went through 2020s. Like yes, but, okay, here's Moses numbers 11. God in his love says, I'm gonna take some of the spirit that I have in you and I'm gonna put it on the 70 elders. And and so he gathers them to come together.

And so the 70 elders come together, except there's two guys, LDA and me dad, if you read this passage, are just like, they don't show up. We don't know why there are no shows. Like were they playing hooky? Did their dude buggy get caught in the sand? We don't know. But these guys are no shows. What's amazing about the passage is that even though they didn't do what they were supposed to do, God's spirit also filled them.

And just like the 70 elders, they began prophesying. But if you look at the actual text, it says that after the elders prophesied, then they were done prophesying like it ended, but it never says [00:07:00] that specifically about LA and me dad and I looked at that and I was just like, what? That is so bizarre. Why is that?

What, what is, what is trying to be communicated in this text? And then I went and I looked up the meanings of the name LA and me dad, and LAD means God has loved, and me dad means object of affection. And I love that because what it reveals is God poured out his spirit. I mean, this says numbers 11, right?

Long, long way from Pentacot. Not an LA and me dad, and even the elders in some ways, not based on what they did or what they left undone, not how they behaved, how perfect they were, what they achieved, how hard they were striving or trying. God poured out a spirit. Because they are the object of his affection and they are loved by God.

And if that is true of Elda and me dad, how much truer is that of you and of me? [00:08:00] And so we start to catch these glimpses tucked into the Old Testament of, oh, this is what God has been doing with his spirit all along. Wow,

Dan: that's so good. I'm just thinking like you said earlier, alluded to that most of us, when we think about.

The Holy Spirit or Holy Spirit, right. I still do that sometimes. I don't know. We'll see what happens, um, but yeah, we, we, we go to acts, right? We go to Pentecost of that falling, but like, take us back. When do we first begin to see Holy Spirit in action? I think if. It's a lot sooner than we, we all may think.

Right? Right. It

Margaret: I mean there is I always like to highlight, 'cause I'm a Bible nerd, so all the Bible nerds out there, I'd be like, Ooh. And everybody else will be like, gonna take a little nap here. But whenever somebody is introduced in scripture, like you always have to pay attention because. Their introduction matters.

It's gonna tell something about their character, how things are gonna fold. Usually there's a hint about who they are, not just in the meaning of their names, but how it unfolds. Great example, Saul. How do we meet Saul? He is literally hiding in the baggage and can't find his own donkey. Like, you know what I'm saying?

You're like things are not gonna go well for [00:09:00] this guy. That's just kind of like, you're like, mm-hmm. Yep. I see where we're going. So we pay attention to the introduction. And so we pay attention to how Holy Spirit is introduced in scripture. And it comes so early on. I mean, it says in Genesis chapter one in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and they were, they were formless and void.

And that word in the Hebrew is the word Tohu. Wavo, who? And the imagery is actually similar to that of like a desert wasteland. It is like almost an empty, I don't wanna call it an empty vortex, but it is just empty, barren, desperate and it says the earth was formless in void. And the spirit of God, the Ru Elohim, the spirit hovered over the waters.

And we've got a couple things going on there. First of all, we have to understand the spirit over the waters, that in antiquity, uh, large bodies of water, were always representative of. Chaos, uncertainty and the unknown. Why? Because in a very basic, practical way, those small manmade ships, in antiquity, like they were no match for a large body of water, whether that be the Galilee, [00:10:00] whether that be the Mediterranean, whether that be an ocean, it didn't take much of a large storm even in the Galilee, which isn't that big because of the terrain of the bottom of the Galilee, where if a storm rolls in, it will cook.

Create huge waves that can destroy those manmade ships. And so there was a lot of fear and folklore. The rumors of leviathan, swallowing ships whole, uh, was common. And so, so you have this, this, this picture of chaos. And here is the spirit hovering, uh, the word in Hebrew is the word. Fat and, and it, it's kind of a, it's a hovering, it can also be translated brooding.

Um, one rabbi translates its fluttering and I love that imagery so much. Um, but, but we see the spirit brooding like a mother equal over the midst of the chaos. And the uncertainty and the unknown, which encourages us who are in those seasons of the chaos and the uncertainty and the unknown, and our finances and our employment, and our workplaces and our families.

And are estranged relationships that just as the spirit began [00:11:00] hovering over those places since the beginning of time, he hovers over those places. Not just in a cosmic reality, but in a personal reality for you and for me. And we start to carry that through the text. Where else do we find the spirit hovering?

Imagine the chaos and the uncertainty and the unknown that surrounded the very death of Christ, right? The disciples fleeing in all directions. The one they had pushed all their chips and bet on this guy for, and suddenly he's gone. And who raises Jesus Christ from the dead? It is Holy Spirit hovering over.

Chaos. Hovering over the uncertainty, hovering over the unknown, raising Christ to resurrection power, and even in the midst of sitting in that room in Acts two, right in the uncertainty of an upper room going, something's gonna happen, but we don't know what it is. It feels like chaos. The political authorities are against us.

We don't know how this is gonna unfold, and in the [00:12:00] midst of it, once again, holy Spirit hovers or bruise the actual imagery in Acts chapter two is that imagery of the Holy Spirit descending, right? Like tongues of fire that come and rest. Almost like. Hovering or brooding the same imagery in the book of Isaiah.

God is created to an eagle, who hovers over its brood. It also appears in Deuteronomy. Jesus takes on the same imagery when he compares himself, almost like a hen who wants to come around. It's brood and protect. And you see this as consistent as father, son, and spirit, and it's consistent with who God is.

I mean, this is the mystery and the beauty of the trinity. And so I think there's such comfort recognizing that from the very be begin, beginning, this is something Holy Spirit does, has been doing and will continue to do in our lives and in our world.

Dan: I don't know about you, Margaret, but we've been through some stuff in line challenges but I think that all stops when you've write your first book. So [00:13:00] maybe you're past all that. But you know it's so funny when we go through and we're in the storms of life when everything feels like we're going to be engulfed by the waters, when we feel like everything's, our ship's gonna capsize, the leviathan's gonna come up and eat us., We have this expression that when we get.

Into the spirit. We have this expression like, oh man, I just gotta get into the spirit and out of the flesh and into the spirit. It's when tho when we get into the spirit that those things begin to settle. And I love that imagery of how it just flutters over when we get away from those things and we allow ourselves to almost be pulled up by the spirit and just be above those situations.

God can just minister to us through, through Holy Spirit. And it's just such a great example. Of Jesus and Holy Spirit being above every situation in our entire life. And as we get our eyes off of our own situations, our own problems, and look at Jesus, at, look at Holy Spirit and fellowship, and, and begin that intimacy, those waters become calm and our life can, not that it becomes perfect, but, but situationally it [00:14:00] becomes.

More controlled. I know you've researched this pretty extensively, and in your research you come up with some characteristics of the spirit. Mm-hmm. Can you tell us about those, those three primary char characteristics that you've written? Hmm.

Margaret: Yeah I think that the big thing that I see the Holy Spirit doing over and over again is revealing the character, the kindness.

The competency and the compassion of God. And I think that when we see those things, we, we can walk in a certain confidence that that indeed is the work of the spirit. I was just recently listening to a sermon on Jesus being led into the desert to be tempted. And it was really interesting. I can't remember if it was the loose gospel that it's in, but we know that Jesus was led by the Spirit into the dead.

So we sometimes assume that if we're being led by this. Spirit, it's gonna be easy. Or, if we, if we kind of have those, what I call sacred echoes, those things where we're like, man, we're praying about doing this. We're thinking about doing this. We saw this lineup, this lineup, this lineup, this lineup.

We're sure we're gonna do it. And then we move our whole lives. To me, Mexico. It is the hardest, most [00:15:00] difficult, terrible thing that's ever happened, it seems like. And we get through it and we grow through it, but we're like, was that really Holy Spirit? And I think that one of the things that we have to remember is that just like Jesus being led into the wilderness, sometimes the Holy Spirit leads us to uncomfortable places and hard places.

And areas of growth. Sometimes we just think it's a spirit and it's not. We make a mistake, but the beautiful part is God is big enough to hold it and handle it and grow us through it anyway, but I think in those moments. Even when we're in it, we can still look for God to or Holy Spirit to reveal the character, the competence, and the compassion of God.

A number of years ago, I had a, just a horrific battle with cancer, and for anybody who's ever battled a disease like that or won like it, or perhaps you've been in a custody battle or walk through a divorce. Or maybe you've had to file for bankruptcy. You know that when there's a crisis in your life or maybe you're just struggling to get employed again that often can become the centerpiece of your life.

It just [00:16:00] takes up your days, applying for applications, you know, talking to lawyers, going back to the hospital for more treatment. And in that season, I remember just being so defeated and so beat down and I was like. Holy Spirit, I just don't even know. Like I don't even know how to get through that. I don't even know what to do.

And I remember in that season, I sensed a thought pop into my mind that was not my own. And it simply said, you can clinging to the crisis or you can clinging to Christ, but you do not have arms big enough for both. Wow. And I remember going, holy Spirit, I wanna clinging to you. I do, I, I, I, I wanna cling to you.

I just, I don't know how, I don't know how, I don't know how to do that when I'm so sick. I can't walk across my living room. I don't know. I don't know how to do that when literally every day is just consumed with this. Just medical, it seems like never ending whole with treatment. And I remember in that season I was praying and I was like, oh Christ, I wanna clean you.

I don't know how. And, and there was that passage that came to mind from Jeremiah 29 that talks about God has a hope and a future for you. And I thought, God, how do I make that a reality? In other words, like if you have a hope and a future, [00:17:00] how do I get my eyes just like you are describing Dan, above the crisis that I am in back upward.

And I thought, you know what? I have to put a pin in the fact that God has a hope in a future. 'cause right now all it looks like is darkness. And I remember I was sitting around in our house and we had this like super eighties, peachy, icky paint in our living room. And I thought, what if we went to the hardware?

Store and got a couple of gallons of paint

and I didn't

Margaret: have the strength to do it, but I remember my husband did and started painting walls. And what happened is all of a sudden, like there was something else to focus on and something to talk about. Other than the crisis and the disease, not just with friends, but a different touch point.

When we went to church and then we started selling a little furniture that we had online on Facebook or Craigslist or whatever, you know, it was at the time. And, and then we began like, like buying some new you stuff and trading it out. And all of a sudden people are like, how's, how's the little updates in your house going?

And it was like, oh wait, there's [00:18:00] something besides the crisis to focus on that, that, that, that, that implies like, I'm still gonna be alive. I'm still gonna live here. God still has a hope and a future. And, and so I think in those moments that God has those ways for us to shift our focus to find those little things that are always super spiritual.

Sometimes they're, they involve just like a gallon of paint from Home Depot, but they can make such a differe. In, in the ways that we move through those tohu, those seasons of darkness and struggle and chaos and uncertainty and the unknown and Holy Spirit wants to help lead us through those.

Dan: I'm, you just, I love I love the, the charisma, but just, the depth because it's. The more you know and the more you study of the Lord, it pulls you into deeper intimacy and it just pulls and, and it just builds more excitement. More excitement. Because , I know when, I know as you've studied, you know, you read something and you're reading and then all of a sudden, man, the light goes on and you make these different connections and you're like, wow, that's incredible.

This number matches this number. Or, this place matches this place. And you know, and you just, you think, wow, this [00:19:00] is just impossible. But not right. Uh, because nothing is impossible with the Lord. And so that, it's just amazing. And so it, it is and it pulls you into just, such a wonder. And uh, looking back again into the Old Testament

sure. With us more, uh, about some of the different people and some of the other ways that Holy Spirit was active. You

Margaret: One of my favorite is in the book of Exodus describing Beal and a Holy Am. And when it came to the very first person who was noted as being filled with the spirit, it's a guy named Be Beal.

And and, and I love that because he was an artisan, he was an artist. So all of our creatives out there are. Amen. Yes. And, and, and he was filled with the spirit and with, with these gifts to really work in kind of like metalworking and carving kind of the physical items. And what's cool is that he was given a partner in crime by the name of the Holy ab.

So he had like his buddy with him who was gifted in a very different area, which tended to be more textiles and fabrics and together. Filled with the spirit. They are empowered to teach and [00:20:00] to lead an entire guild of artisans to fashion the temper tabernacle. And, and as that unfolds, you just see that what they're doing is they're actually creating a blueprint for Christ and the process of forgiveness that will last for thousands and thousands of years besides meeting the Israelites right where they were with the presence of God.

And I think, man. What goodness, what graciousness, what power of Holy Spirit. And, and I think one thing that we can do that in a biblical context is to, to realize the behind the scenes to the scripture. If Holy Spirit is inviting and empowering, and. Filling people to make things for good and for God's glory, and they aren't specifically mentioned, but they line the scripture.

I mean, think about the people who harvested the grain and who made the bread that Jesus would put his hands on and bless. And break and give, or those who plucked and crushed and made the wine, who would, Jesus [00:21:00] would say, do this in remembrance of me. We think about those who constructed in, in, in architecture and in wood.

Uh, Upper room who, who fashioned perhaps wove the rugs and made the tables as those disciples were gathered around. And I think it's a call for each of us to recognize that God in the power of the Holy Spirit can use what we make to make a difference. There's a wonderful Psalm that cries out and, and, and ask God and it says you know, to basically to to give what we make meaning and.

Permanence that is beyond ourselves, that, that God would establish the work of our hand, and, and I love that invitation that we have no matter what we're making, whether you are crafting a sermon, whether you are watching this, and you are making a casserole for someone. Whether you are sewing or knitting or building, uh, blueprints for a house or spreadsheets that you can pray and say, holy Spirit, [00:22:00] would you establish the work of my hand?

Would you add a permanence and a meaning to this? That goes beyond anything I could do on my own. And just like the tabernacle, just like that loaf of bread that Jesus had, just like that glass of wine, just like that upper room, that Holy Spirit can do that. Our lives too. And so it just opens us as creatives and innovators and thinkers and people are reaching out to recognize, oh, holy Spirit wants to be in and through this.

And that's pretty exciting stuff.

Amanda: That's amazing. Just everything you just shared. I, you know, I was just thinking about, how God, you know, holy Spirit filled the creatives as you know, as you shared, but it's interesting 'cause you look back and what, like the Israelites didn't even have time to create anything other than what the Egyptians told them to make

in that whole time. So it's like God's like, Hey, I'm gonna empower you by my spirit. To make something new that will honor me. Not the Egyptian gods, not the pyramids, whatever else they were making bricks [00:23:00] for, but God said, now it's time to use your work for me.

Margaret: Yeah. And all those gifts. It's incredible.

That's such a great insight, Amanda. I love that. Yeah. That constant. It's so beautiful how constantly Holy Spirit. Christ and God is constantly redeeming their journey, whether it's introducing the Sabbath, providing the manna that they just get to eat and it's sweet bread, that actually I think Deuteronomy knows, has olive oil in it, which has the healing properties, I think in part to heal them physically, mentally, spiritually, from the toil of being in Egypt.

But as you are pointing out the beautiful redemption of even the creative elements. And all those gifts that have been tucked in or forced out and used for something that they never wanted to build to gods, that they never wanted to help fashion, and all of a sudden they got to use them and their kids and their kids' kids.

Oh, it's incredible. That's the kind of stuff, Dan, that's what we love seeing in the Bible.

Dan: Absolutely. And that just totally resounds with my spirit too because I play piano professionally. I've recorded multiple albums and and so. [00:24:00] When I get ready to write a song or I'm sitting down and I, I.

Just pray, Lord, like, write the music of heaven through my fingers right there, and so, but when I would go to the studio, when I'd go to the studio, I would, I would record it international, you know, world class studios, and I'd show up. And hey, what are we working on that, what we work on the day producer dad.

I'm like, I think we're working on these two or three songs. I'm not a hundred percent certain because I would write, I would write about 70% of the song, and then it's like the rest of it, it was just spirit led. And so I'd sit down at the piano and I'd have them turn off the lights and just sign a light down on the piano, and it would just be completely spirit led.

So every track would be. Would be different in some ways. There was still kinda that same map, but spirit led. And that, that style, and that's just my own style. It, it still. I think about like Hebrews 11, that face still speaks. And what you were saying earlier that like, that thousands of years later, these different people like, like their stories and how God worked in them is still speaking.

And I look at some of the music that I've created and that God's, you know, written through me it's still blessing people. I mean , we go back to different areas and like, wow, I, you know what I was. Going through [00:25:00] cancer. I was in an MRI machine and I heard your music and it just brought this piece and, and and when we allow the spirit to do the creative work we show up and we bring the gifts that he's given us.

Like first Peter four 10 tells us that we all have gifts, but when we bring those things, then we allow the spirit to breathe. Like that breath, like when we allow it to breathe in US and through us, it has an impact in our own lives. But it, it. It impacts countless others. And so I just, I love how you've brought that to life in so many different ways.

Margaret: My friend Susie Nelson taught me about this, she's a florist and she just makes these asymmetrical, stunning pieces. And a group of girlfriends and I got together we're like, Susie, can you teach us how to have flower, make flower arrangements one day? 'cause I used to be like, the buy from stored stick and vase.

Yes. And right, like, oh, Arnold. And um, and she changed my life in like four hours when she started to show. And she actually made us go forge in the yard for like branches and leaves and all kinds of creative stuff. And we got done with this. But what I'll never forget from that lesson beyond how , all the things about flowers, and I read a little bit about the impact of that [00:26:00] is how she recognizes that every.

Bouquet that she puts together is actually an altar of prayer, and so if she's putting it together, it becomes that opportunity to pray for the recipient, whether or not she knows them or not, often she doesn't. Obviously people are placing orders, but that person will receive something and they have been prayed for intensely and intently, and she'll pray about how to put together the flowers and which ones to use in such a way that it will truly bless.

Them. And I thought, man, if you can turn a handful of flowers into an altar of prayer, then there is no spreadsheet, there's no document, there is no whatever we are making in our daily jobs, that can't be turned into an altar of prayer too. Wow.

Dan: I wanna shift gears a little bit here. . We can sit here , and we, we talk about the Bible and it's exciting.

And I think there's like, when our spirit touches your spirit, when we, when we get among other believers, there's just that excitement. But you know what, that's not every day. And there's a lot of listeners that are out there. They're doing their job or they're listening to this and, it's just been a challenging day.

We had this day yesterday, I was in the flesh. Yesterday. We came back from being in the States, everything. The [00:27:00] electricity was not working in our house. The car wasn't working. We went to ride our bikes to the, our friends to get help. Our flat, our tires were flat on the bikes. We tried to get outside of our gate.

The little ants had shooed through the electrical wire on the gate so we could not get outside our gate. It was just everything I was complaining I was a little bit griping to get I don't know. Maybe you what? You're human What?

Margaret: I can't believe it. What? No, you have to be perfect all the time.

What?

Dan: So I had to go buy a new battery. I show up and I would just complaining like, God, you know I don't have anybody to help. We live in a different country. I can't do these sorts of things. And I show up at the mechanic, at the. The auto supply starts, and like the guy that we, that's in our discipleship group, and he comes and just puts his hand on me, and he's a mechanic and his uncle is a mechanic, and they're both in there and they're, Hey, well, we'll just ride back with you.

And we're like, we'll, put it in your car for you guys. And I'm just like, all right, God. Like, like I was riping about not having help and here it is, , you've supplied that you know, there's days that, we just. Aren't experiencing the Holy Spirit.

And I know it's not us, but I'm just wondering like, what do you think? For people, we all have these days. What do you think holds us back from experiencing the [00:28:00] fullness of the Holy Spirit?

Margaret: I'm glad that you think, I'm glad you only have days. Like I have years. I mean, I'm sorry, I dunno.

Have years like that. I do think there's just some basic tactics. And I talk about this a lot, particularly in the, God you need to know Bible study. Um, but number one, of course, the scripture, it, it's the obvious Go you just, I, everybody has to say that. Like you'll never hear from God is loud or clear, or precise or concise as they're spending time in God's work.

I mean, holy Spirit, what loves to do is flutter those words from stories from the Bible and imagery right into our daily lives when we're in the midst. Of having those terrible days where I call like nothing can go. Right? That's the way it sounded like. You were, you guys were having Yeah, I was just like, I can't make it stop.

And, and, and yet then all of a sudden you see the con kindness of God on display and you go, oh, oh, okay. I got it. I got it. You, you still hear. Thank you. I needed that. Um, so definitely spending time in scripture. I think a, a second tactic is to make space to listen. You know, if you wanna grow in your relationship with Holy Spirit.

I, I don't know about you guys, but I'm like pro. Run on sentence, girl in prayer. Like, I'm like, God, oh, gotta go. And not making time to listen and, and so setting an alarm on your [00:29:00] phone or your watch, 60 seconds. Two minutes just to sit in the silence. You've just, you just. Spoken, but take the time to listen.

Pay attention. What thoughts pop into your mind, what scripture pops into your mind. You may have somebody's face pop into your mind, a family member, and you're like, I haven't thought about them in a long time. Maybe I should just send a quick encouraging text. So I think to, to engage Holy Spirit is to make space to listen.

The third is something that my friend Drake taught me earlier this year, and it's really impacted my life, but he works with a lot of youth and college students. I said, how do you help them? Like with practical, let's get, you know, buy your toilet paper at Sam's Club or Costco, like 72 rule, like practical.

How do you help them awaken to the reality of Holy Spirit and relationship? And he says, what he tells them to do is to get a journal and to each day simply write down one question. Now that question can be about identity, purpose, action, who they are, who God is. Questions like, what's my purpose? What are you calling me to do?

Who am I? What do you say about [00:30:00] me? What's on your heart, and you write down that one question instead of the, the kind of the shotgun approach to prayer, right? Which is like me, like run on blah, blah, 55 a, DD, a ADHD one, and then throughout the day you return that one question throughout prayer and, and so you just keep coming back to it.

Lauren is gonna keep asking you this question, who am I? Who am I? Who am I? And and to, to pay attention to what comes to mind and the conversations you have, perhaps what your podcast you're listening to, just how your day unfolds and where Holy Spirit might be bringing an answer to that you may have thought like, you are my beloved.

I have called you by name. You are mine. You, you may have people just say, oh, I've never, you so appreciate this, whatever that is. And then at the end of the day or the next morning, write it down. The next day you can ask the same question or shift it out, shift it out to a different question. But I started practicing this about six months ago, and I can honestly tell you it has changed my relationship with Holy Spirit.

Uh, my husband and I have been in a lot of transition and health issues and challenges, and in that, in this over the last few months, it's just been like, I don't even know how this. I, I can't, I don't, I, I don't, I, I don't know. And so I just write down one thing. Holy [00:31:00] Spirit, we order our steps. Just writing it day after day, week after week, month after month.

And now I can look back and be like, wow, holy Spirit answered that. Holy Spirit has been working. Holy Spirit has made holy the spirit's presence real and vibrant, and provided clarity and ways forward in ways that I never would've anticipated in the process grown my faith and my trust in Christ. And I think for some listeners who are out there and feel like, man, holy Spirit feels like 10 billion miles away, or I still wanna keep the in front of Holy Spirit, totally cool.

We love you. But, but maybe hesitant. Consider this idea of journaling and just narrowing it down to one question and returning to it throughout your day and just, just change the posture of your life to start paying attention to whole Holy Spirit might answer.

Dan: I wanna come back to you on this with holy Spirit.

Mm-hmm. There that might be the most like. Controversial topic in, in scripture among so many different you know, there's, there's people parked in all camps that maybe [00:32:00] listen to this podcast or across Christianity but we're all on the same team, you know? And, but I'm just wondering for, for the, the listener that's for new to Holy Spirit, or, or is, is wanting to develop a relationship with Holy Spirit.

Where do you start? Like how do you personally, Margaret, how do you discern. This is the Holy Spirit speaking, or this is my lunch, , that is not, like leading me, leading me somewhere different. And so just wondering how can you, how can listeners begin that journey? Start from the get go and, and can you help them give some, some, some steps or some questions to ask?

Margaret: Yeah I'm just being honest, like borrow from a library. I don't care. I wrote the God you need to know book and bible study because this is what I would've had 30 years ago. I wish somebody would've written and given me this with such clarity, such warmth, such inviting nature such, such biblical basis from, from the beginning, not just jumping to Acts two.

I wish this had existed. Get a copy, read it, steal it. Oh, I didn't really say that. Okay. Maybe I did like, whatever. Like, okay. Just get your and read [00:33:00] it. Because I'm not interested in you liking the book, I'm interested in you knowing and recognizing throughout the Old Testament where Holy Spirit is, because that establishes that this relationship is normal.

It is every day. It's not weird, it's just, Hey kids, it's just part of following Jesus. But I think that when we have things that we're like. Unsure. Okay. Was that Holy Spirit, was that not, did I have too much Chinese takeout? Like what? MSG? Like override? Like what was that? We've got some guardrail questions.

Number one, does what I'm sensing or feeling prompted? I hate the word feel. Okay, by the way, side note, I go to churches and the worship leader, take no offense here, Dan. I was like, the Holy Spirit is here. Can you feel him? And so often I'm like, Nope.

I don't table them at all.

Margaret: Like, I wouldn't say I'm a feely of Holy Spirit, but, but I can mentally go.

I acknowledge and I honor that Holy Spirit is here, but I don't necessarily feel it. I'm, I'm not the feely ones. Um, but when you have those props and they're different for everyone, number one, does it align with. The narrative of scripture. I don't say scripture [00:34:00] because anybody can pull three or four words outta that book and justify anything.

They've been doing it for a couple thousand years. So we wanna look at the overall narrative of scripture and does it align with the character of who God is, uh, God's character. In other words, if it doesn't align with the character of God and the narrative of scripture, it's probably not from God. I was recently at a party and a gal was like, I had this dream and in it, I just keep having it.

I meet this really attractive guy and we're super attracted, and I leave my spouse and I go off with him and I was like. That is not God. I'm like, what? And we all have those stories where we're like Hey buddy, that is definitely not the Holy Spirit. And so we have to align. Does it align with scripture?

Does it align with the character of God? Um, most of the things that. I would say almost ev, I would say everything Holy Spirit is prompting you to do will cause you to love God more and love others more. That that is the fruit of the work of the Holy Spirit. So we've gotta ask, does it cause us to love God and love others?

Does it increase our dependence on God? I love one friend. I asked her, I said, I'm curious, how do you know when Holy Spirit is prompting you? And she goes, because it's always what I don't wanna do. I love that [00:35:00] answer because so often it's like that call of like, go apologize. Go. You know, go call that person.

Go reach out, go send a gift, go back and make it right. And I'm like, I don't wanna do that. And so often what Holy Spirit's calling us to, we'll increase our dependence and then to ask, , does what I sense or, or, or have that prompting the Holy Spirit, does it yield the fruit of the spirit?

Because what anything Holy Spirit's prompting you to do is. Going to yield love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Now there may be a little bit of uncomfortable inness in that lemme give you an example. Uh, a little while back I was swimming in a pool and I just sensed this thought pop into my head and it was like, talk to this stranger next to you and I.

I don't want to do that. But like when I go through, I'm like, does that line of scripture love your neighbor? Dang it. Is that consistent with the c character of God? Yeah. He calls us to love. Yeah. Oh, you just kinda go down the list to increase independence.. And I was like, okay. So I come up and, he's kick boarding and I come, how you doing today?

And we strike this conversation's. Total non-conversation by the way, like we talk about. Sports [00:36:00] ball teams, the weather, everything empty under the sun and that's it. And I was like, holy Spirit. I don't even know what that was like. Did I miss you? Did I make that up? What was that? And I, and in a way I appreciate it because I think that happens to all of us.

There are times we have these prompts and, and nothing happens. And 'cause that's just part of the journey, that is it. But sometimes we also don't know, like, I don't know if maybe that day he felt less alone. Maybe he felt seen or connected with, or encouraged to exercise more 'cause it's a community thing.

Or maybe it was about me and, and just developing like small acts of obedience quickly and, and maybe I don't know that I'll ever know. And yet I think there are things like that we will do along the course of our life. But there will come a day in heaven when God is gonna pull back that curtain and say, look.

Look at what I did through all your small acts of obedience, and, and we are gonna see that. And so we just go forward and sometimes we see the thing, start the conversation. The person breaks out in tears. Something beautiful [00:37:00] happens and other times it will peer, nothing happens at all, but. I hold onto that suspicion that God is still up to something good and Holy Spirit is still on the move.

So if it's aligning with scripture, character of God, loving others, increasing dependence, and yielding fruit, go for it. And if you're wrong, God's big enough to handle it. Weld them stepping out. Hmm.

Dan: That's true. That's true. Stepping out. That's half the fight, isn't it? It's so the new book, the Guide, you need to know, but also you have that's out, but you have something new coming out very soon as well.

You have a six. Session Bible study. Tell us about that.

Margaret: Yeah. The Bible, the book and the Bible study go together. The content is complimentary but actually kind of different. A lot of times you do a book in a Bible study, you're like, I think it was the same thing. You're gonna find a lot of different stories, a lot of different teachings and insights into both that are still diving.

'cause there's just, the Holy Spirit is just all over the Old Testament. So much. But in the Bible study in particular, it gets really practice practical. It's got the subtitle is 12 Practices to Awaken Your Relationship with Holy Spirit. And so what that does is that invites communities of [00:38:00] people who may be considering God or maybe veteran believers to start diving into Holy Spirit.

Understanding Holy Spirit in the Old Testament, but then engaging in these practical activities of starting perhaps a journal and trying that to see if that helps them connect with Holy Spirit using different practices with scripture to engage Holy Spirit. Making space to listen, listening for the Sacred echoes, the repetitive nature of the spirit's voice.

Um, learning how to talk about others with Holy Spirit. Even in this conversation with you, Dan and Amanda, there's been like this excitement and this energy, it's like, oh, that happened to you and that happened to me. And what happens in a community? And that's how we see the Holy Spirit move. It is, it's constantly bringing people together, not building divides, but building bridges.

And man, if there was any time in history in this world that we need that. It is now. Yes.

Dan: So good. So listeners, make sure you go get both of those here as, and we'll have those links in the show notes. We do have, as we're we, we do wanna be conscious of your time here. I wanna have [00:39:00] some fun questions we wanna make sure we, we wind down with.

Are you ready?

Margaret: I'm ready. Boom, boom, boom.

Dan: Alright, cool. We're gonna, we're gonna ease you in here. Okay. Alright, here we go. Let's see. Let's say you could FaceTime one Old Testament character who's picking up the call. What's the first thing you'd ask him?

Margaret: Nebuchadnezzar.

What was that transformation like? I mean, buddy, buddy, you had it all, you couldn't help but point all fingers to yourself and then you're like crawling around like a wild animal on the field. I, I wanna hear some more details of that. Like, like what was that? Did you notice your own odor? Like what did you eat exactly?

How did people look at you and like, what was it like to come out of that? I, I wanna know more about that whole experience from him. That's.

It's just

Dan: weird. Alright. You know a lot about the Bible. You've studied, you, you know, the Hebrew which Bible character would you most want as a sidekick, as your teammate on your Holy Spirit of a.

Margaret: Ooh. Oh gosh, this is a hard one. You know what, I would probably take [00:40:00] John the disciple who Jesus loved, because he had some comments that none of the other gospel writers had, and he had some observations, and I wanna know if the way that we read him was really what he meant.

I, I have some questions for John.

Dan: Cool. One or two more here. How about you've written about divine nudges. Have you ever mistaken one for a caffeine crash or a sugar high?

Margaret: Oh yeah. Terrible. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Terrible. So I was in college and I was, I was praying and I opened the Bible. I played Bible roulette, right?

Narrative of scripture. Don't pull out a word. And I was like, where should I go? Study abroad? And I was in somewhere, I don't even remember what book it was, Romans or something. I think Paul went to Spain and I was like, I should go to Spain. And I went to my advisor counselor, he was like, no, we don't have a program in Spain.

You shouldn't go to Spain. I was like, but I wanna go to Spain. Look, I don't wanna go to Spain. Anyway, I forced myself into. Spain and it was 90 of the worst days of my life. I don't know if you'd call that a caffeine crash or but it was just bad news bears. So yeah. Wwo.

Dan: Oh man. We love that we have a five-year-old son and sometimes he'll walk around going, [00:41:00] WWA

Amanda: friend of ours taught him that, so That's funny.

Dan: Alright, let's do one more here. They kind of go together, but with the last one what's the most. Unspiritual moment when you actually did sense the Holy Spirit moving.

Like maybe was it in the cereal aisle? , When, , when was that?

Margaret: Okay, this Easter, that is crazy sale and these really cute purses at Target. And so I got at four in the morning to order one because I really wanted one, and I got one and I looked at one and I was like, oh, my friend Janelle needs that.

And so I go, boop, boop, boop. And I ordered one. I didn't think anything about it. So she calls me. Right after Easter, it was right before Easter. And she says, Margaret, how did you know? And I was like, know what? And she's explained, and I'd known her mom had died. And so it turned out that every year for Easter, all of her life, for every single year, uh, mom had bought her an Easter dress.

An Easter purse, and this was the first Easter without her mom, and so she had gone shopping and she bought herself an Easter dress, but financially she couldn't justify the [00:42:00] purse. And the purse arrives on her doorstep and it matches her dress.

And she sees it and she goes, how do you know?

And I said, I didn't, but our Holy Spirit did. So, yeah, my most un-Christian wasn't praying, didn't ask anything, and went boop, boop boop on the target website, and God was at work.

Dan: That's so cool. So beautiful, man. God is good. God is good. Yeah. Well the God you need to know out now. New study coming out very, very soon. Margaret, how can our listeners connect with you? Where can they get the book? Tell us all the details.

Margaret: Yeah, I'm on Instagram like twice a year. , No, I'm just really the great at social media, which is the last thing anybody should ever say.

My publisher's gonna kill me. But yeah, I have, I'm on Instagram and Facebook at ma Feinberg, F-E-I-N-B-E-R-G. I've got a website, margaret feinberg.com. But just go to Amazon like. Amazon's our friend and just like scoop up the book and Bible study, grab some friends, read it. I do encourage people do it in [00:43:00] community, like the Holy Spirit works in community.

If you start to look at the Book of Acts, it's not, it's, yes, there's lots of miracles. That's like saying like, like there's a lot of shiny things. But if you actually look at what Holy Spirit is doing in the book of accident, write about this in the book, is bringing people together who could not be more different, who don't really wanna be in the same room.

Together and building bridges and not barriers. And man, we can enact that as followers and it is just so much fun and delightful. .

Dan: Well, mark, what an honor to have you on the show today. It was so great and we just speak blessing on this new book and, just everything you put in your hand too.

We're so excited. Thank you for staying faithful to the call that God has on your life and we're just excited to see him continue to work in and through you. Thank you. And we love the missional life. Amen. Thank you so much.

Thanks for joining us today on the Mission Life Podcast. You enjoyed this episode. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss out on future conversations. And don't forget to share this episode with your friends, family, or anyone you think will be blessed by it. We also wanna invite you to check out our free 31 Day Devotional Living and Mission, all life designed to help you step forward into the purpose he has for you.

[00:44:00] Just click the link below to get your copy today. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you next time on The Mission of Life Podcast.