You are listening to the we need to Talk About Oscar podcast, and this is our conversation with Alex Disenhoff, cinematographer of the Limited series Dask.

But ultimately, what I think I'm always looking for is, you know, a story that resonates with me, a script that resonates with me.

It's not defined by its genre.

It could be a comedy, it could be fantasy.

Unfortunately, you don't always get that.

It's, you know, there's not.

They're not always out there, these things.

But you always hunt for something that really resonates with you because, you know, we spend so much time away from our families and so much of our blood, sweat and tears and stress and all these things into these projects.

So you want to care.

And if you don't care, then I've never done anything I don't care about because I just don't think I could do it foreign.

I often ask not only DPs, but pretty much everyone occupying different jobs within the industry about going from feature to episodic filmmaking or vice versa.

But maybe right now, in your case, there is another aspect to this story.

By going from the Rings of Power to Task, and now you're saying back to the Rings of Power just before we started recording.

So from Middle Earth to Philadelphia.

Yeah.

From fantasy to reality and then back.

So what I'm curious about is do you, I don't know, have to do or switch anything specific within your mindset when shifting from a. Yeah.

A fantasy epic to an extremely grounded human story?

Good question.

Well, first of all, I'd say I think it's one of the best parts of my job as a cinematographer is that I get to explore different avenues of making different stories in different worlds on different scales.

Right.

And as, you know, a movie and TV fan, you know, different genres, it's fun to be able to play in all these, you know, these various genres.

From a creative perspective, I don't find there to be much difference because it always just starts at the script, regardless of whether it's comedy, drama, fantasy, you know, and.

And budget wise, yes, there is definitely a difference in the structure of the production.

You know, Rings of Power is an enormous machine with thousands of people working on it, you know, and enormous sets and.

And that's really fun to tackle.

There's a lot more management involved in some ways of that because of the scale at which you're working.

Something like task was fun because it's, you know, it's kind of the complete opposite.

It's all location based.

We did have a few sets we built, but pretty minor small things that we really worked a lot with.

The locations around Philadelphia, just outside of Philadelphia.

But my approach from a photographic standpoint was different because the scripts were different.

But my overall philosophy of how I break down a script doesn't really change depending on the genre.

And you mentioning as well how the best part of it is how you can go back and forth and delve into all these different genres and types of projects.

But on the other hand, there is.

Since Brad Ingoldsby is the creator and writer on this show, and a couple days ago I listened to his conversation from earlier this year on the Tim Deakins podcast and that's where he talked about one of his wise words for the younger generation is to write in a genre that you feel comfortable writing in because it's so easy to be put in a box with the genre you're choosing.

And yeah, it seemed like that Roger Dickens was resonating with and yeah, somewhat agreeing with the dangers of that.

So I'm curious, what's your experience with this?

Oh, I think from a.

Let's.

I mean, cinematography and writing are different jobs.

I do think that I certainly.

There's more.

You know, it just depends on where your interest lies, I think.

And what if you like the script?

You like the script.

I mean, I'm a fan.

I'm a huge fan of Tolkien's work, for instance.

And I love being able to be in Middle Earth and help create Middle Earth and walk onto these sets that I get to walk onto every day is a special experience from a.

Just from a very personal perspective for me.

But I'm also drawn towards dark, gritty stories like the one that Task is that.

You know what, when I read Task, I also felt like it was a little bit different than some of the other crime dramas.

That.

Which I love.

I love the crime.

Crime genre.

I think Brad's other work is fantastic.

But what I loved about Task was that it's.

There's also a lot of poetry in it.

It's not just this kind of cat and mouse chase or anything like that.

There's a lot of character moments, a lot of quiet moments, poetic moments, and each character is so complex.

There's a lot of depth there.

And I think I could see when I read the scripts a lot of opportunity to capture those quiet moments in a really beautiful way that would help round out this more complex or this darker story in a more complex way.

And I feel like, you know, I spoke with the director, Jeremiah Zagar, who's fantastic.

Real artists.

And he had that same vision, you know, he really wanted it to be.

Actually, you know, I read a review today about saying how it's almost like more of a novel than a TV show.

And that is to me is like the biggest compliment.

Like I.

That's what we were going for.

You want to like seep in it like a book and take your time with it.

And that's what we were going for visually.

You said this to me before and also wrote on your socials about it and now alluded to it somewhat that Brad script is the most beautiful script you've read to date.

Can you put it into words?

Can it be put into words what that means for your work as a cinematographer?

Like maybe just for example, does it make your job easier or raise the stakes?

And yeah, in general, that's a good question.

I think it emotionally raises the stakes in a way that you just don't want to mess it up because you feel like as long as you do your job well, it will come through.

And also I think it does make my job easier in a way because you don't spend your time during pre production trying to fix problems with the script.

I've been on projects where you spend days just trying to be like, well, how does this really make.

This doesn't make sense.

How can we make this make sense?

And you work with the director to change scenes around to make it work.

Whereas with Brad script, everything worked from the beginning.

It was so beautiful and compelling and so it really was a great jumping off point where it was just about Jeremiah and I trying to get to the, you know, what the kind of core of it was that we could put on screen and really let Brad's script and let the actors performances just live as written because it's so well done.

So yeah, I mean, I think I certainly felt very fortunate.

Like the whole shoot I just kept thinking, man, I'm lucky to be able to be a part of these scripts.

You don't get it very often.

Yeah.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but two, I know it is.

You shot episodes one, two, five and seven.

Yes.

So both the beginning and the end of the story as well as just mentioned, all directed by Jeremiah Zagar.

And of course, as of now, I don't know what order you shot Teski in the blocks or how you divided it.

But as for this aforementioned beginning and end angle and to maybe after all, because of course I can help myself bring it to the difference or possibly in this case a similarity with feature filmmaking and here episodical, how you could not only kick things off with scouting, starting production, etc.

But to also have a proper bookend to this entire venture.

In terms of the story.

Was that the case here?

Does that help you better organize and process the experience?

Yeah, absolutely.

It was really important to Jeremiah and I to be able to begin it and end it.

You know, there was talks originally to do the whole thing, but it just became apparent that it just was too, it was going to be too much.

The schedule wasn't going to work.

It, it just didn't, didn't make sense.

And we got a great other team to, you know, help continue the story.

But from a, from a personal point of view, I think it was really nice to be there at the very beginning.

And we shot it pretty much linearly.

So it was great to be there from the very beginning and be there at the very end to that journey.

And also, you know, when you're starting a show, it's, you're setting, you're, you're creating the blueprint and you're, you're creating the roadmap for the, for everyone else.

And it's.

For me that's really important.

I really like being able to be the first in and be on the ground floor because, you know, in the world of Task, for instance, it was really important for us to not just create this world.

Jeremiah and I wanted warmth to the images to a certain degree.

We wanted it to feel like these lot, these people's lives, which are not easy, you know, there's a lot of heavy stuff, as you know, but that there were lives worth living and worth fighting for, that was important.

And working with Keith Cunningham, who's a fantastic production designer, who I've actually worked with several times before, creating these very lived in homes and these, these worlds that feel also distinct from each other.

You know, Robbie's world and Tom's world are very different.

If you look at their homes and how that reflects their characters, all of that is done and kind of figured out in that first prep period before you even shoot episode one.

And it's, it's great because you get to really understand the characters.

And then so when the next team comes in and takes over, they understand as well what kind of the sandboxes they get to play in.

And they, they can still kind of flex their creative muscles and do their beautiful work that they do.

But there's this, this tone that has been set and I think that really allowed us to feel like there was a Nice, fluid kind of continuation throughout all the way to the end.

And then.

And then the finale.

You know, I really was so happy to be able to shoot that because I just find it to be so emotional.

There's a scene, Mark Ruffalo, the speech that Mark Ruffalo has at the end, which I won't talk too much about, but, you know, it's.

It's beautiful and heartbreaking and everyone on set was crying.

I still watch it and I cry.

You know, I'm a pretty new parent and anyone who's.

Who has kids, I think it really hits extra hard.

I remember reading that and I just.

Visually, it's nothing, you know, spectacular.

It's a very kind of, you know, if you want to say bland setting.

It's in a courthouse that's pretty.

There were no windows.

It's not a beautiful setting, but it's just so emotionally resonant and so impactful that I just was so.

Again, I was so grateful to be able to shoot that and to be there on the day watching Mark give this incredible performance.

To be the first audience for that kind of stuff is always is a treat.

Yeah.

And as far as the touching, more intimate moments go, of course I'll try my best as well to not spoil anything as of now.

But as for episode one, and yeah, setting the mood with it, I, to a point, clogged it.

And I believe other than the radio, there are pretty much no words spoken by either the characters or anyone else in the first almost five minutes, which means it is one, the music speaking.

Two, the camera speaking, you speaking.

Yeah.

What were the conversations around that?

And yeah, kicking this tumultuous story off like that.

Yeah, that's a good question.

You know what?

If I remember correctly, there was a little bit more dialogue at the beginning.

And what ended up happening was sometime in pre production or might have even been after we started shooting Jeremiah, our director came up with the idea and said, hold on, I think forget about all this other stuff.

Let's push some of the dialogue later.

Let's move these scenes around a little.

And I just want to see these two men, these kind of parallel lives, and I just want to live with each one for a minute and in their actions, in their everyday kind of life, tell the audience exactly who they are without saying anything.

You know, as an audience, though, you can watch those first five minutes and you understand the kind of core of each character and how they different, how they're different from each other, which I thought was really unique.

And in modern television, pretty Brave to do to, you know, not have any dialogue for five minutes of the first episode is.

And, you know, grateful for Brad and for the team at HBO for allowing that to happen.

Because I think a lot of people are afraid of taking time and allowing things to breathe and just showing and not telling.

And we were able to do that.

So, yeah, I really love the opening because of that.

You're just allowing the audience to kind of marinate in these two guys lives.

Yeah.

And another thing you've talked about is how, of course, you want it to look lived in more than just a place.

And this isn't the conventional good guys, bad guys setup.

There is a good amount of blurring the lines going on, not just giving equal time and focus to the task force and Robby and his family.

So when you're trying to make a distinction between the worlds they live in, but still, as far as their characters go and their personalities, their background, everything, what does that mean for your visual approach?

Are you shooting them differently?

How differently?

If.

Yes.

Or treating them the same?

Yes.

I mean, definitely.

I think Jeremiah was interested in finding, framing things in a way that gave maybe a little bit more negative space.

I think tomorrow, Mark Ruffalo's character, you know, he's suffering from a very serious loss and still grieving from that.

And we wanted him to feel.

We wanted to feel uncomfortable, like his.

His world is just not.

He's out of balance.

And so we talk.

And he's also a pretty measured person.

He's not, you know, unlike Robbie, Tom Pelfrey's character, who's a bit more frenetic and frantic and kind of fly by the seat of his pants.

Tom is very considered, and so it's reflected in his.

In the production design.

But we wanted, from a framing perspective, a little bit more stillness, a little bit wider.

You know, let him be maybe pushed to one side of a frame so you get a little bit more negative space in.

In a way that you wouldn't expect.

Just make it feel a little bit off at the beginning.

And then you kind of contrast that with Robbie's world, which was a little bit more handheld, a little bit more following him and reacting to what he's doing, which I think is a bit more of a reflection on how he lives his life, which is, you know, in the moment, kind of making quick decisions, reacting to those decisions, and, you know, the chaos that follows those decisions.

And so there was a very much discussion about how we differentiate these two, these two characters from a framing perspective, from an energy perspective, and Then I'd say from a lighting perspective, we tried to keep everything as naturalistic as we could.

You know, we wanted heightened naturalism, maybe, is the way I describe it.

You know, we want it to be beautiful, but it should never feel too beautiful, should never distract.

It should never feel unreal or lit.

You know, taking the cues from the real light in the real spaces was always important.

And so that was something that.

So I wouldn't say there was made much of a difference in lighting between the two characters.

I mean, each space had its own flavor, I guess.

But yeah, I would say the real difference between them came between where we placed the camera.

Listen, all I need is a curtain with some light seeping through and some dust in there.

You got me.

Technically, or more so logistically, and then realistically, one of the biggest questions, or most usually brought up problem for me in as far as the genre of crime goes is how one can depict different, I don't know, missions, raids, etc.

And there's this fascinating parallel between how meticulously a task force must operate and of course, how a camera crew functions.

When you're lansing an operation, say a raid, the camera basically has to become a part of that unit.

So.

Yeah.

How did you figure that out technically in terms of choreo?

Pretty much everything.

Yeah.

Well, the way Jeremiah and I like to work was.

Well, first of all, actually, he did this incredible thing for the first episode, which again, set the tone really well.

He actually worked with an artist who made watercolor storyboards, so painted storyboards of the entire episode.

And they're beautiful.

It's like a work of art.

Oh, I want to see it.

I have a.

He made a book of the whole episode for everybody as a wrap gift.

It's incredible.

It's like really beautiful.

And they were tonal guys.

They weren't necessarily always the exact frames that we had, but they were a great kind of kicking off point for everyone to understand what the tone and what the perspective is from each scene.

And then from there what we did is, you know, we'd find the location or we design the location if it was a build.

And we would go through the beats of the scene and say, okay, this is like, whose perspective is this?

And who do we want to be with?

Who.

Who's experiencing what?

Who do we want to show, you know, in terms of the experience and that?

Let me let it guide us in that way.

And so you're always with someone.

You're always in someone's perspective.

It's not just action for Action's sake.

You're always giving a point of view to it, which I think ultimately was our goal through the whole show.

And we wanted to make sure we continued that, that it was very grounded.

Action.

Um, and so, you know, we used.

I like drawing overheads of, you know, of a set.

So I'd work with the art department, I'd get the actual blueprint of the space, you know, and then I'd scribble all the, you know, okay, this character goes here to here.

This character goes here to here.

Here's where we think the camera might be, you know, and all of those things.

And then I would, you know, Jeremiah and I would go onto the set, we'd walk it, we'd see if it worked in our heads, and then we would do the same thing with the actors.

And so it was just a, you know, you iterate over and over until you feel like you're.

You found it and you found the right perspective.

Of course, I'm not a critic, so I'm.

I'm not going to be the one writing or giving any type of review.

But maybe what I appreciated most about the task is how even in the midst of action sequences, you manage to remain character focused in a way, how their personalities can come to the surface at times.

How did you maintain that intimacy during Chase's high stakes moments?

Because one thing is for sure, you just, I don't know, can't stop and be moody when the tension is at its peak.

Yeah, I think it goes back to what I said about.

About it was really important for us to, when breaking down a scene, to think about whose perspective it was and what each character is experiencing.

Because ultimately, this whole piece, the reason why I think scripts are so beautiful is that it's not just an action piece or a drama.

It's like it's an intimate character study of multiple characters.

They're so well drawn, these characters, and we wanted to give each one of them their time to shine in a way.

And so we kept that up through the action sequences as well.

I think, you know, audience members have seen everything.

We've seen the best action, we've seen the coolest explosions, we've seen it all.

And so I think that audiences actually get bored pretty quickly with action if it's not grounded with characters you care about.

And so that's what we were.

The kind of ethos we were operating with was that why do we care about?

Who do we care about here?

And if we don't care, then we shouldn't be doing It.

We shouldn't be showing this person because it's not important.

Which is not only smart, but after all, emotionally on point.

Yeah.

And finally, somewhat circling back to your high praise for the script, and I'm not trying to give you anxiety or anything like that, but what will you be looking for or what are you looking for in your next project and the one after that and so on.

Can you always raise the bar in terms of expectations or just aim for something different?

Oh, gosh, this is a good question, man.

I mean, I think life is complicated, and so there's a lot of factors that go into what's next.

But ultimately, what I think I'm always looking for is a story that resonates with me, a script that resonates with me.

It's not defined by its genre.

It could be a comedy.

It could be, you know, again, it could be fantasy.

I feel very fortunate to have been able to work on this, because I did.

I think this.

I just think the scripts were so good, and I think the world will agree when they watch it that, you know, the scripts are really good and the actors are really good.

And unfortunately, you don't always get that.

It's.

You know, there's not.

They're not always out there these days, things, and.

But you always hunt for something that really resonates with you because, you know, we spend so much time away from our families and put so much of our blood, sweat and tears and stress and all these things into these.

These projects.

So you want to care.

And if you don't care, then I've never done anything I don't care about because I just don't think I could do it.

So I don't know what's next.

There's a.

You know, there's a myriad of avenues that could.

I could go down, but whatever it is, I'll be looking for something again that resonates with me, you know, a story I want to.

I want to be a part of.

For, you know, many months of my life.

And I'll be watching.

Alex, once again, thank you so much for your time and for your beautiful work.

You make my job easy.

Oh, thank you.

I appreciate it.

Thanks for having me.