welcome back to another great episode. My name is Sarah Karakaian.

I'm Annette Grant. And together we are, Thanks for visiting.

Let's start this episode like we do each and every week. And that is sharing one of you, our incredible listeners, who's going over to strshare. com, entering information about your short term rental so that we can share it here on the podcast. On our Instagram account, on Sundays, Annette, who are we sharing this week?

This week we are sharing at dollhousedaydreamaz. And this is a Barbie inspired home. And it is Barbie inspired. It, every inch of this place.

It's good though.

There is no inch that is not Barbie pink. The cabinets are Barbie pink.

I would live there.

Their refrigerator is Barbie pink. One thing that I absolutely love, super custom is they have a photo op in the home where it's a life-size Barbie box where you can be like, you could be in the box by yourself like you are the Barbie. How fun. So fun and the details here. Are maxed out. They even took the Barbie theme outside and I just love that this host, Danielle, I mean she went all in. You have to those same places, you have to be dedicated 'cause she's in it. Super competitive market wants to stand out in the crowd. Then other part that I've noticed that was really well done is she brought, she didn't just do the theme in the home throughout her entire listing on Airbnb, she wove in the barbie theme So even the copy that she uses, uh, she acts like she is Barbie when she's talking to her guests. So check, check out the Instagram and then go into the account and see how she's done that. Um, and, and each individual like room has a Barbie theme also. Well done. Well done. So fun.

All right, let's change the tune a little bit and talk about whether or not you should fire your property manager or co host. It is a topic that we hear often. Honestly, sometimes people join our mastery and they join because they want to prepare themselves to let go of their property manager slash co host, whatever you want to call them. This person. And sometimes the answer, when we dig in a little bit with them, is yes, you should. They're not aligned. And it's time to go our separate ways.

Sometimes, it's time for you to re read your contract, look yourself in the mirror, and think about, do you have unrealistic expectations? We see two, we, we see this happening. People are jumping property manager's co hosts, and they're also jumping, um, property management software. So sometimes it's like, wait a second, there's a theme here. Let's settle in, let's see, should they stay or should they go?

So In today's episode, we're going to go over the common pain points we hear. The property manager or co host isn't responsive, there's a lack of transparency, feeling like they're not doing enough or not meeting expectations, finding out about new tools or strategies, and you feel like your property manager isn't using them. So the purpose of today's episode is to, if you're in the same boat, help you decide. If you're not in this boat, but you're thinking about hiring someone to help you, this episode could help you. Set your expectations appropriately ahead of time, which is always the key, but let's get into it.

Here are some of the common issues we hear with hosts and their property manager. One is communication is either just not there or It's just bad. And then also just lack of transparency of what's going on with the property, what's going on with the bookings, what's going on with the guests.

We also hear that the property manager just isn't doing enough. You feel like they're not earning their commission or they're not up on, you've been listening to podcasts or YouTube videos and you're like, are they doing that? They're not even doing that. I don't even know if they're doing that. Are they doing enough? They're seeing up on trends and new strategies and then you get frustrated. We want to help you get to the bottom of it. Should you really fire your property manager or are your expectations misaligned? Or are you not asking the right questions? Are you not sitting in that CEO seat of your property and taking charge and making sure you understand what set of services that they're supposed to be providing you? Are you getting everything that you discussed? When you hire them in the first place.

We've been on both sides. We are property managers We've also hired property managers We have we talked to a lot of owners who have had property managers and now take it over So we really have sat in both seats We've seen both sides and now we just want to get to the bottom of it and help you.

What is a property manager? Or what is a co host? So having someone manage someone else's furnished rental, vacation rental, whatever you want to call it, is not something new. But with the boom of Airbnb and they're coined a term, the co host, it does make it, I think, a little bit more difficult to really understand who is responsible for what and what they do. Because honestly, I don't, I didn't really see the difference between a property manager or co host. Some people might argue that a property manager is licensed professional. Uh, real estate salesperson, um, but varying laws from state to state, it might not matter. Um, there are co hosts out there who do everything for the property owner and their license, but they prefer to call themselves a co host because of the popularity of the term. And so maybe you are just misaligned because You thought they were a co host and they're actually a property manager or you thought they were a property manager and they're really a co host and Neither of you have talked about the fact that you have different understandings of what those titles bring to The property and your relationship

and I want to highlight one thing that Sarah said there again asterisks We are not Legal advice at all. No. And so different states do require different licenses, certifications, etc. Some places you cannot co host without being licensed. Some of them you can't be a property manager and vice versa. It gets very gray. So again, you need to understand in your area what the laws are for having someone Manage, take care of your property with guests inside.

Here's an example of where you could be misaligned and both of you didn't even know to talk about it. Maybe you heard all this talk about midterm rentals and you're like, well, why isn't my property manager or why isn't my co host doing midterm rentals during this time period to maybe pivot strategies or try them both? Well, it could be because in the state you're living in The person who's helping you isn't licensed to be able to, to, uh, manage stays that are 28 days or longer or 30 days or longer. They didn't think to tell you, or maybe they did somewhere a long time ago. And you didn't even like, you didn't even know what a midterm rental was. So you didn't really even like pay attention to it. And now you've heard it on YouTube or podcasts, and now you want to know, and now you're frustrated. So that's where it can. Um, those nuances can

matter significantly. It's not that they're not doing their job for you. They just aren't allowed to host those 30 day plus.

So let's just talk about, so it's like there's cleaning coordination, maintenance coordination, financial coordination, guest communication coordination, um, capital, capital improvement coordination. Um, preventative maintenance coordination, all those things. I'm sure there's more, but like, have you all agreed on what they would be responsible for and what you would be responsible for?

And I want to share, I will be case in point when I started my. Co hosting, because that's what I called it, my co hosting, um, journey, I just had a handshake agreement. Okay. And so I can share that that relationship, it was several years long, but the reason, one of the main reasons that relationship ended was that we didn't have anything clearly defined because what happened is a lot of other property managers and co hosts started And Coming to my current client with what they could do, how they could do it, and basically, you know, trying to lure them away from me with. All of these, um, parameters that I didn't have in place. Uh, luckily it all ended up working out. He actually kept it in house. We are still friends. He's still doing an awesome job. But I want to share that that was eventually what led to us not working together anymore is we didn't have that agreement nailed down. Again, this is like 10 years ago. And I mean, no excuses, but I didn't know I was property managing. I thought I was just helping my You know, friend host on Airbnb. So, uh, again, you got to pause for the cause there, get that contract, get that understanding. And what's so great is let's say you're already working with someone. It's okay to do this now, even if you're already working together. It's not to say that you have to like stop working with them and find someone new. You can, you can work with them if you don't have that contract in place.

Speaking of contracts, do you have one? Is it clear? Do you understand it? Have you reviewed it recently? Sometimes, listen, we're actually talking about a vendor right now in our, in our business that we've been frustrated with. And we do both kind of pause sometimes we look at each other and we're like, we have to be sure that we're not to blame.

Right. Because a lot of times when you first sign a contract, I can share like you'll read it, but until you're actually in the relationship till you're doing business with that person, sometimes those line items don't make sense. True like they don't make sense to you until they're like an action. So that's where you want to go back through and Review it, you know kind of write down maybe what your questions are Maybe what your frustrations are and honestly, this is where I would Go into ChatGPT, let ChatGPT maybe know what your frustrations are, like, Hey, I am, I want my pricing to be updated more, this, that, I want my photos to be updated more. Skim this contract and let me know what the contract says about it. Like, let, let ChatGPT help you do the work there.

Let's go over some really important terms right now. That you might be frustrated with and we can chat with you in our experience being on both sides of the table, what you could ask them for further clarification or maybe see like, Oh, That's right. They say they wouldn't be doing that, or that would be my responsibility, or I didn't choose the package with that service provided. So, we have a list over here, and let's go through them. So, listing management. We've heard from hosts who are frustrated that the photos aren't updated enough. Or the description isn't updated enough, or there's some things in there that they're outdated, and the property manager or co host will say those interchangeably, haven't updated them, or the title's been the same for a year, so who's in charge of updating the listing? Can you update it? Do they want you to be hands off? And so do you need to find out, okay, so then when are you going to refresh the listing? Um, what about their website? Are they just listing you on a website? Online travel agencies like Airbnb and Vrbo, do they have their own direct booking website? And if they do, what are they doing to attract new people to the site?

And understanding it's not just the updates, but when they are going to do them and how to communicate, uh, that you would like a change made. Uh, we see that a lot of times think of also, I want you while you're digging into that contract, uh, take a look at how you're supposed to be communicating with. Your property manager or co host, um, probably shouldn't be texting.

Texting them midday and maybe again, this could help you get some perspective. They're out there putting out fires at different properties and you're texting them your frustrations or your concerns or a question and they're out in the field doing the thing. So having an understanding of hey, how can I share a question with you where it'll sit and how often Or how quickly will you get back to me? I would wager to guess they want you to email them. And so then you need to know that's fine. I'm happy to email you. Can I expect a response in what? 24 hours, 48 hours. Setting those parameters is something they should do for you, honestly. But if you need to guide them and let them know that, Hey, you're happy to follow their rules and not text them, but here's how quickly you'll hear back. And when will that action be? question, when, when can it be put into, into place? Um, another thing that you can talk about is pricing strategy. So are they updating your pricing? If they are, what are their systems for it? Are they using a third party dynamic pricing tool? How do you know if it's been successful? Are they tracking the history of it? Um, or maybe. They can't touch your pricing because they have to be licensed in your state to be able to do that. So that's, that's a concern that could be true for you. Communication expectations. Here's one that I see a lot on the host side, Annette, where there are, I'm sorry, a co host side, where the co host is like, Well, I was hired to communicate the guest and the owner swoops in an Airbnb and is responding to the guest before I can. It's not how I would do it. They're mad about how I did it. It's giving me anxiety right now. Just thinking about it. Yeah. And it's like. If you hire this person, you have to let them do their job. And if you have a question about the way they did their job, let's go back to what we just talked about. How can I communicate with you? How can we set up a call to have this discussion? And then give them a chance, right? To like, do their job. To do their job. Right. Hopefully you hired them because there was some level of trust there to begin with. Absolutely. Now, they're just being outright, like, not responding or not professional in their responses. That's different, but I really want you to, like, zoom out and make sure that's what's happening and it's not just that they're not doing it your way.

Mm hmm.

For sure. Um,

Repairs and maintenance. Are they approved to a certain dollar amount to take care of things? Are we using their preferred providers, your preferred providers? This is something you really want to make sure, uh, that is understood. You know, are you getting quotes? Is there a certain amount of quotes they need to get? Uh, and, and what Actually, what institute or what constitutes repairs or maintenance and what's that line crossing where maybe there's a huge project that needs to be, be done versus changing out some filters. So, there needs to be some very strict, um, uh, just boundaries on what are repairs, what are maintenance and how are those, how are those going to be taking place.

Some, I can give you some perspective here from the property manager's side. If they're a good property manager, they have great relationships with service providers. And so you might have your guy who you know and love, but now you're in your co hosts or your property manager's program, and they can't necessarily get out of their own system and their own flow to use all of their owner's individual vendors. If that's something that. It's like, make or break for you. I would have that conversation with them, but I want you to kind of understand where they're coming from. They built their own relationships. They have their own flow for communicating with this person. They know how to act on property. They show up in a certain like uniform, whatever that, maybe it's the pricing is really great because they're their preferred vendor. I mean, there's a whole. whole slew of things that could be the case there. And so they might have an in house team. They might have an in house team. So even if you're like going through this video and you're like, yes, we're misaligned. I want, when you do schedule that call to talk with your person, I want you to ask them first, their perspective. I want you to kind of listen more than you talk at first, because they might have a really good reason as to why they do things the way they're doing them and see if you can kind of see it from their perspective. And you're like, you know what? Let me try it your way. So just a little zoom out there for you. Um, who handles guest complaints? Who handles calling the shot when it comes to cancellations? Refunds. Refunds, right. Have you talked about that? We've seen co hosts or our property managers get stressed out because they know that's the right thing to do to save the review, to save the reputation of their company on Google, is to make this customer happy. And they have the owner over here who's not really involved in the, in the relationship with the guest and not really involved in the situation. And so for the owner, it's a little easier to just say, no cancellations, like make them

pay. Don't give them a refund. Right, and

the coast over here, like I'm really trying to like save this like retalitative. Review or any sort of, I mean, I had one guy one time, everyone, he wanted to cancel this really high nightly rate stay well past, like, I think it was like a week before his arrival. Okay. So these people booked this property six months out. He wanted to cancel his stay. And we said, unfortunately, sir, um, as you agreed to on the cancellation policy, we can't, we can't honor that. He built a one page website to slander the company. And he was like, I will go on Twitter. And I will share this with all of my followers. I am not lying to you right now. Right. So like I was trying to explain to my client, like this guy is unhinged. Right. I think it's best to just let him win this one. Let our egos just kind of like, let's go stay at the property and like maybe do some maintenance or do some marketing shots, but sometimes it's just not worth the anger. Don't. Get a customer or a guest. Don't let them make you their project. It's just not worth it to have them like so focused on destroying you like this guy wanted to do because you were upholding your cancellation policy that they agreed to. Like, I get it. But again, before you get too frustrated, you really should be on the side of your co host or your property manager. And then ask questions to see if there is a misalignment, but at first, I guess, assume that they're trying to do what's best for you and your, and your property.

And then one of the final things is your, your supplies, your inventory. Who's responsible for paying for, let's say, all of your consumables? Maybe like we were talking earlier, like that HVAC, um, filter. Just really getting an understanding of is that included in their services? Is it not? And this is where we see So like I was telling you that story earlier about how my client had been approached by so many different property managers wanting to take over his portfolio. This is what we see. You are not looking apples to apples. You might see, um, as a, an owner, someone's Commission rate is half of what your current one is, but it's not, there's all these other fees and additions that aren't included in that. So that is another thing that we want to make sure, like really understanding all of those line items, all of supplies, inventory, commission, refunds, the more, the more, you know, the more, uh, aligned you possibly would be. But that's also when you're, when you're out there shopping these potential, uh, new property manager co hosts, you want to make sure that you're looking at the contracts, apples to apples.

Let's move into zones of red flags. And I think the biggest red flag that you should look out for is whether or not you're getting performance updates. Now, if you've hired someone to just help you with your guest messaging, and they're doing so well that you then forget That all they're supposed to be doing is communicating with their guests, but you're like, maybe you've layered things on and they're yes people and they're like, Oh yeah, I can make sure that the, you know, smart pricing is on or, Oh sure, I can call that plumber for you. Right. And all of a sudden we've all lost sight of what you originally agreed to, but if they are meant to be full service and you're not getting performance reports, whether that's in your contract or not, that would, that would. I think you should be motivated to meet with them on a, uh, on a zoom call or a phone call or at least email communication because if they're not giving you performance updates on, on your property, holistically, maybe you're just on Airbnb, maybe you're just on Verbo, maybe they've got a great direct booking website and you don't know how your property is performing. I think that's an issue because then how do they know they're doing a good job? Right? And you may, you don't know what you don't know. And so I'm, we are telling you right now in this video, like you need to know if your property is performing well compared to the market. And if you have a full service property manager or co host, they should be keeping you updated on this and backing it with some sort of data. But I just say that with the caveat of only if they're supposed to, but if they're just messaging guests for you or just doing like a small portion and you are really meant to run the whole show, then obviously they're not going to be doing that because they don't have that kind of insight. Alright, so we just gave you like warning signs. Now, let's discuss when it is time to fire your property manager or your co host.

And like anything, don't think that like this is going to be easy. Don't think that, um, you know, if you haven't researched whether you are going to do it or whether you're going to hire somebody else, that that all of a sudden is going to be like this silver bullet fix with your property. This is one of those things that I do before you do this, I want you to take a good hard look in the mirror. And make sure that there isn't anything that you could have done or that you're doing in the relationship that, you know, you don't want to carry over A, into a new relationship with a property manager or B, if it's going to be you doing it, remember all these things are now going to be on your plate and can you handle it?

I don't know if you've ever had a management position at a more corporate setting, but it's, so if you haven't, I'll, I'll share this with you. Because I, Annette and I do believe in firing fast. It's kind of like a saying. It's nice to say because it's like alliteration, but here we we haven't done it and every time we haven't done it It's bit us in the butt. Okay, and so it's work to find someone new. It's work to find someone new It's not fun to fire someone right all we can go and think about is like well now they're not gonna have they've got kids They I know that their car was broke last month I know that like right like you like maybe it's on social media that they someone passed away in their life like all these things can Can put them as a priority over you and your property and that's on you to decide you certainly don't have to take our advice But all I can tell you is when we don't fire fast and we let it linger on it doesn't get better So there's that but it doesn't mean firing fast without a plan is gonna make it Well, that's what I was gonna say So if you ever work in corporate America if you are in HR or you're a management position You first talk to the employee and you document it the date what you discussed What was missed? Okay. Then it happens again or something else happens again. You can say, Hey, property manager, we talked a couple months ago about this, this, and that I haven't seen any improvements. Plus this has happened. So where can we go from here? Because I really would rather us not have a third call where I'm unhappy with your services. And they're like, no. Host or property owner, we're going to like make it right, blah, blah, and then that third call comes and that on that third call, it's not discussing what you can make right, that third call is letting them go. How are we offboarding? How are we offboarding? Right? So that's what I mean by fire fast. It's like, yes, fire fast. It makes sure that you've talked to them and you're very clear and you outlined it, you dated it, you have your own documentation of that call. Then you do it again. That way you feel really good on that third call. Like I've talked to you on this date. I talked to you on this date. In my opinion, these things haven't approved. So, improve, so how can we off board? So here are other things that you have every right to let this person go. Poor communication. So it's inconsistent, it's, it doesn't make sense to you. Like, maybe they, they, their email is written so fast, they've given, they've given no thought to it. They didn't answer your question, or you're not really following their train of thought. And it happens. Often I think communication is one of the key pillars of great customer service and providing a service of what they're doing. So they should be good at that. Next.

What do we have here? Negligence or incompetence. Like this is your property. This is a giant asset. So if there are things that are falling through the cracks or not taking care of the property, that is like. Huge, huge red flag for you and you've got to make sure because what's going to end up happening is there could be an issue then, safety issue with guests, and then that is going to fall back on you. I don't care who is, um, managing your property at the time.

Lack of revenue optimization. If you have, you're very clear that this is their responsibility and they're not doing a good job of it. I mean, this is the one thing. Not the one thing they're, they've got to do a lot of things, but this is the thing that really helps them make money. It helps you make money and to be able to optimize it should be at the core of the services they're offering. So if they're not pulling all the levers and showing you how They're doing everything they can to make sure that your pricing is optimized, then that would be a reason to move on for me. You see this

one so often is they're just scaling too quickly. They're bringing on too many properties, and then your cleanliness is lacking, your guest communication. Is lacking again, we'll go back to it. Maybe, um, just safety and maintenance aren't being attended to. You really want to take a look at, um, you know, look, have that conversation with them. A lot of times they'll brag of how quickly they're, they're growing when you are, um, in a meeting with them. Just really be, be careful with that. If they're scaling too quickly, they're not going to have the systems. They're not going to have a team and your property is probably going to fall through the cracks.

financial mismanagement. So you're getting your owner statements or they're invoicing you and it just feels like time not feels like it's true. Time and time again, there's a discrepancy. Something's not right. You're having to like really comb through every single time more than usual to make sure they're not making any mistakes. That means they're again, they're probably moving too fast or scaling too fast. They're not putting an importance on making sure they're communicating the financial management of your property and the revenue.

And that is one thing that we see and we just Really pause, like have caution here as if reports are due to you at a certain time and they're not getting to you or depending on how the money is taken care of. Like when are you paying your invoices? When are they invoicing you? When are they releasing the funds? Those, those are things that if they start to just get slightly off, you want to be very, very careful with those. Because we have seen so many incidents where weeks and months go by and then it's no fun for anybody. When is it time not to fire your property manager? Not to. And this is so important. Again, this is one of those let's look in the mirror. Do you have unrealistic expectations? Honestly, and you know who you are. Are you that person? Listen. That is probably me. You, right. You, yeah, you're right. But, you know, are you that person that is never happy? With anyone that you ever hire. Stop talking about me Well, we I just I actually had a call last week with someone that was on their fifth property management system And I'm like wait To me, that's a red flag. It's not, it's not the PMS system, it's you, so if you are constantly hopping from property manager, co host, property manager, I just want you to slow down and think about why and what are these expectations that you have? Are they unrealistic? And also, are they asking you to do things to your property and you're not listening to them?

Ooh, that's really good, Annette. That actually wasn't on our list of things to talk about.

Have they asked you, maybe you need To make some updates to the property, maybe you need to get new photos. Are you actually taking the feedback that they're giving you? That is what I see so often is that homeowners are just,

they want everything, but they don't want to do the work for it.

Do any of the work they don't want or do any of the upgrades. And you know who you are if you have it invested back into your property.

So this is not me. Like I will over invest to make the guest happy or to make my neighborhood happy. But I have seen that of like, and you're not a bad person. Like I get it right. The property is not making money. And so to invest more money, it just seems counterintuitive, but we have to look at this third party, which is your PM, your property manager, and the other third party, which is the guest. And if they're showing you like, Hey, this competitor is doing. X amount of revenue each month. And you are not, it's not because of me owner. It's because the photos are terrible. Our expectations aren't set or the couch is disgusting. And like, it's from your grandma's house. And you told me we could get a new one six months in and we still haven't. Right. Like set them up for success.

And that's when, when you are comparing them to other property managers, I just want you to compare your property to others in your area. And are you equipping them? Um, I know that you're in this agreement together, but I really, you know, if you want to be making more money, if you want to, you know, stand out in the crowd, I want to make sure that you are giving them the tools inside the property to do so. So again, like just checking those expectations and, um, looking in the mirror there, and it might not be time. Maybe you need to have there been, has there been feedback coming to you that you have not listened to?

And I love the tip Annette gave. So I'll give it again of take your frustrations, type it in a chat GPT, and then copy and paste the contract after you put your expectations in there. And you want to prompt chat GPT to say, I've been frustrated with my service provider about A, B, and C. I've also pasted the contract. Am I within my right to be frustrated? Can you give me, can you play devil's advocate to me and give me the perspective of the person who is giving the services and let's have a conversation because with the robot, with ChatchPT, you can really. Take a step back, get that ego out of the way and see if maybe you're your own bottleneck.

And as you're comparing your property to others, because maybe you do have other property managers co hosts, um, trying to sell you on their services. Just be really careful of that comparison. Again, make sure it's apples to apples. You know, a lot of people are going to try to sell you on how great their services are, how great, you know, you're not their client yet. So you, A, want to understand what they're providing you and B, Look at their, um, talk to some of their current clients. Look at their website. Look at their Google reviews. So if it, I want you to know like if it's someone brand new who's coming to you versus maybe your property manager is a seasoned vet. They, your property manager Just might know a lot more and have a lot more experience than this person that's trying to woo you and wow you With their lower commission rate and that's what we see so much is people jumping for Supposed more services and less of a commission rate and I that is just in that's pause for her for cause right there Like wait, why am I getting more for less and are they just inexperienced and if you are someone that's considering Letting go of your property manager or co host and self managing, it is absolutely possible, but we do want you to recognize that there is going to be time, energy, money, guest relations involved, so don't let go. Let your, you know, your ambition, A, absolutely do. I think you could do it, especially if you have one property, let's go, but know thyself, know what else is going on in your world, because I can share and just applaud all co hosts and property managers everywhere. It is. Super hard work. You are on 24 7, 365. Even if you don't have a guest there, someone might be messaging you. So, it might feel like it's part time, but it is all the time. So, this is kind of a multi faceted statement of like, you know, Is it time to fire? Is it not time to fire? Is it time to hire yourself? You really need to think it all the way through.

let us know if you're considering firing your PM, why we can maybe help you work through it. If you're thinking about self managing, let us know why we could even see if you're a good fit to join our mastery. And we can help you set up those systems to get you on the right path of self management. And if you're a co host or property manager it's always good to get the perspective of your client. Again, for you, remove that ego and see it from their perspective of, it is hard to invest more money in a property that's not performing well. And so how can you change that, that narrative to really support them and get creative and, and give them the data and the facts that they need to see. Like, if you'll do this, I can all but guarantee that this outcome will happen. So in conclusion, sometimes it's not about firing your property manager. It's about clarity, communication, and making sure you not only have a contract, but you're aligned on the contract and you're clear about what's in the contract. So go forth. Have a conversation with your co host or your PM. Or when you go to hire them, make sure you're asking a lot of questions. Remember, you're interviewing them, they're interviewing you, and you really want to make sure that you're aligned. It's like any other relationship that you get into. And with that, I am Sarah Karakaian. I'm Annette

Grant, and together we are Thanks for Visiting. Talk to you next week.