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And we're live. Welcome to the podcast editor

mastermind, the podcast about the business side of podcast

editing, the show by editors, for editors.

We are so glad you decided to join us. I'm

Jennifer Longworth. You can find me at Bourbon Barrel Podcasting, and below

me is Bryan Entzminger. You can find me at toptieraudio.com.

And, Jennifer, do you wanna introduce our guest? I would love to. Our special guest

today is Janiel j Lewis, one of the newly inducted

members of the podcast hall of fame. Got to

be there for that and, at Podfest. So congratulations, and welcome

to the show. Thank you so much. It was great to have you there with

Daniel J. Lewis: me as well, Jennifer, to celebrate, and and it's great to be here to

Daniel J. Lewis: talk about one of the things I'm most passionate about right now besides podcasting, of

Daniel J. Lewis: course, in general, but one of the specific things. Yeah. And that topic

is podcasting 2.0, which I don't know anything

about. I went to a session about it at Podfest and went,

yeah. I know nothing about this. I need to have someone on my show to

tell me all about this. I'm happy to help. So

just as a overview, I've been hearing podcast

2.0 for a while, but I had no idea what it was. For someone

who's like, well, I don't even know. I haven't even figured out 1 point o

yet. What is this 2 point o? And what's the basic

overview? Yeah. Think about it as 1.0 first. We've had

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 1.0 pretty much untouched since the

Daniel J. Lewis: beginning. Sure. Along the way, Apple added some additional

Daniel J. Lewis: tags, like we got the episode number field, season number field, and a

Daniel J. Lewis: couple other things here and there. But besides that, podcasting

Daniel J. Lewis: development and innovation has been somewhat stagnant for

Daniel J. Lewis: years. Even though the ability to extend

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting has existed since the beginning because RSS

Daniel J. Lewis: let's get a little technical here. RSS is just a

Daniel J. Lewis: particular flavor of XML code, and the

Daniel J. Lewis: x in XML stands for extensible. So

Daniel J. Lewis: from the beginning, this thing, the core technology that makes the distribution

Daniel J. Lewis: of podcast possible, RSS feeds, has always been

Daniel J. Lewis: extensible, but people have tried to do things with it

Daniel J. Lewis: and extend it, and it's just not gone anywhere. So

Daniel J. Lewis: when Adam Curry, the cocreator of podcasting

Daniel J. Lewis: himself, decided to really start innovating more in the

Daniel J. Lewis: space and to create podcasting two point o, then things

Daniel J. Lewis: started catching on. Then we started getting momentum, and

Daniel J. Lewis: developers jumped on board, podcasters jumped on board, podcast

Daniel J. Lewis: hosting providers, and even what's so exciting like,

Daniel J. Lewis: we might do all of this innovation even if Apple and

Daniel J. Lewis: Spotify and Google and all of the big companies never do anything with

Daniel J. Lewis: the innovations we're making, but it's so exciting that

Daniel J. Lewis: as of a couple of weeks ago, Apple announced official

Daniel J. Lewis: support for the transcript tag, which is coming from

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2.0. They don't say it's podcasting 2 point o, but

Daniel J. Lewis: they do reference the podcast namespace, which is the

Daniel J. Lewis: technical thing that is extending the RSS feed in order

Daniel J. Lewis: to enable those podcasting 2.0 feeds. So what

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2.0 enables is extra functionality

Daniel J. Lewis: inside of a podcast app if you put this information in your feed and use

Daniel J. Lewis: your publishing tool to put that in there, and the extra functionality

Daniel J. Lewis: can benefit you, it can benefit your audience, it can benefit

Daniel J. Lewis: developers making a better experience in their app, and it can even

Daniel J. Lewis: benefit those nasty advertisers. Oh, nasty

advertisers. Well, I know a lot of podcasters especially the the us

Daniel J. Lewis: indie types, we tend to sometimes think, oh, I don't want advertisers,

Daniel J. Lewis: advertisers are stinky, and I don't like listening to ads.

Daniel J. Lewis: There's a place for ads for sure, but the thing that we often

Daniel J. Lewis: forget to think about when we are innovating in the space is really

Daniel J. Lewis: how does this also help the advertisers, the people who have all the money?

Daniel J. Lewis: There are ways that even the advertisers can benefit from this,

Daniel J. Lewis: even if some podcasters don't care about them. This is really interesting to me

because I've been very much the open source fanboy for a

while. I love what this is about. At the same time, I remember

Spotify or some people previously from Spotify shared some

articles a couple years ago about how real innovation

can never take place in an open environment, that you have to have a closed

system to truly innovate and that kind of stuff. This seems to

be kind of revealing that as maybe not

entirely true. What's your perspective? Not true at all. Yeah. Spotify

Daniel J. Lewis: is, they're frustrating because that

Daniel J. Lewis: is their perspective, is they only really know

Daniel J. Lewis: themselves. And even with the tools that they've developed with Anchor

Daniel J. Lewis: or now Spotify for Podcasters, it's really about promoting

Daniel J. Lewis: Spotify, and they look internally

Daniel J. Lewis: for their solutions instead of externally. And that's really hurting the

Daniel J. Lewis: industry because there's so much innovation happening that

Daniel J. Lewis: they just won't listen to. People will ask them, when are you going to support

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2 point o? And they're just like deer in the headlights,

Daniel J. Lewis: and they just don't know what it is. They

Daniel J. Lewis: won't look into it. They seem to not care. They

Daniel J. Lewis: just decide, we're just gonna do our own thing. So, like,

Daniel J. Lewis: even Daniel Ek, the founder, the head of,

Daniel J. Lewis: Spotify right now, has come out and said certain things like

Daniel J. Lewis: RSS is holding us back. We can't innovate on top of RSS. I

Daniel J. Lewis: think he even said something like we can't extend RSS.

Daniel J. Lewis: And you heard me say it earlier. It is in the very

Daniel J. Lewis: definition of what RSS is to be

Daniel J. Lewis: extensible. So, yes, we can extend it. And will Spotify ever

Daniel J. Lewis: support any of these new features? I don't know. Maybe now that

Daniel J. Lewis: Apple supports some of them, maybe. But the thing is that

Daniel J. Lewis: we shouldn't be waiting on

Daniel J. Lewis: these big companies to fix things. Instead, we should be

Daniel J. Lewis: innovating regardless of what they're doing, and that's what podcasting

Daniel J. Lewis: 2.0 has been doing. And it's just so nice to see some

Daniel J. Lewis: validation though from a big company like Apple. That's just 1

Daniel J. Lewis: feature, and transcripts would be we've had people talking about transcripts,

Daniel J. Lewis: so I want to explain that one a little bit more first. People have been

Daniel J. Lewis: talking about transcripts for a while, but pretty much what they've been talking about

Daniel J. Lewis: putting in with your podcast is a block of text somewhere.

Daniel J. Lewis: And even worse, putting that block of text in a PDF

Daniel J. Lewis: file that someone could download. That is not accessible, and

Daniel J. Lewis: the whole point really of transcripts is for accessibility. Yes.

Daniel J. Lewis: They're a little bit better than nothing for search engine optimization,

Daniel J. Lewis: but it was just so limited what you could do before. Now there is

Daniel J. Lewis: a specific tag in the RSS feed that enables you to

Daniel J. Lewis: upload a transcript format, not just a PDF, a block of

Daniel J. Lewis: text, but an SRT or a VTT file, which

Daniel J. Lewis: is a special time stamped where it's line by line with time

Daniel J. Lewis: stamps in it, you can upload that with your episodes so that in a

Daniel J. Lewis: modern podcast app that supports the transcripts, it can play

Daniel J. Lewis: like closed captioning in a show. And that's great not

Daniel J. Lewis: only for the accessibility to hearing impaired

Daniel J. Lewis: people, but also just understandability. Like, if

Daniel J. Lewis: someone was trying to hear, wait, what was that thing that they said? I couldn't

Daniel J. Lewis: quite hear them, or they said it too fast, or I didn't quite get that.

Daniel J. Lewis: They could enable the transcript for a moment, see what was said,

Daniel J. Lewis: or maybe they're trying to jot down exactly what you said because it was such

Daniel J. Lewis: an inspirational quote that they want to write it down verbatim,

Daniel J. Lewis: and they can see that from the transcript. And that kind of idea

Daniel J. Lewis: of using excerpts, that's something else that some of these apps could

Daniel J. Lewis: start to build in where we've had all of these apps before that let you

Daniel J. Lewis: clip audio. Well, you can have an app that has a little bit of

Daniel J. Lewis: AI to it to recognize where a sentence starts and ends, and

Daniel J. Lewis: let you very easily clip the last sentence that you heard

Daniel J. Lewis: or the last 2 sentences because that would be enabled through the

Daniel J. Lewis: transcript. And and that's just one feature here with

Daniel J. Lewis: the transcript. Some of the other really exciting features

Daniel J. Lewis: are the ability to have what we call cross app

Daniel J. Lewis: comments, which would be where you could comment on a podcast

Daniel J. Lewis: episode inside of your podcast app. So none

Daniel J. Lewis: of this going somewhere else to comment on the episode, but you comment in

Daniel J. Lewis: your app, and then someone in a different app

Daniel J. Lewis: could see that same comment and respond to it, and the podcaster could

Daniel J. Lewis: get involved with their own app or third party service like Podgagement

Daniel J. Lewis: or something else. So it's creating this engagement around the

Daniel J. Lewis: episodes inside of the app. There are other features

Daniel J. Lewis: like live streaming. If you do live streaming like you guys are doing right here,

Daniel J. Lewis: what you could do is is powered by the thing called the live item

Daniel J. Lewis: tag, which is like a new item or a new

Daniel J. Lewis: episode in an RSS feed, but it's wrapped with this live

Daniel J. Lewis: item tag instead of a normal item tag, and that

Daniel J. Lewis: enables these modern podcast apps to recognize a

Daniel J. Lewis: couple extra features that you add in to say when you're going live. So,

Daniel J. Lewis: like, when we went live tonight, if you use the live item tag

Daniel J. Lewis: in your podcast RSS feed, someone with a podcasting 2 point

Daniel J. Lewis: o compatible app would see that notification that you're

Daniel J. Lewis: going live soon, and then when you go live, they

Daniel J. Lewis: would receive a notification to be able to tap in that. And

Daniel J. Lewis: inside of the podcast app, they could listen to the

Daniel J. Lewis: episode live being recorded. That's some of the cool

Daniel J. Lewis: stuff. So much more that is around engagement, around

Daniel J. Lewis: enabling extra features for your podcast, or ways that

Daniel J. Lewis: things can display better. Like, one of the other really cool things is

Daniel J. Lewis: the person tag. Think of it as adding credits to your podcast as a

Daniel J. Lewis: whole or your individual episodes. So, like, if you look inside of

Daniel J. Lewis: Apple Podcasts, for some of the podcasts, if you look down at the bottom of

Daniel J. Lewis: the listing, you'll see a picture of the hosts and cohosts.

Daniel J. Lewis: Well, that right now inside of Apple Podcasts, that's all proprietary

Daniel J. Lewis: stuff, but we have the ability to do that with RSS feeds now

Daniel J. Lewis: so that you could very easily see who the hosts are for this

Daniel J. Lewis: particular episode or the show as a whole, and then the apps can

Daniel J. Lewis: expose that information and cross link it. So if you tap on Brian

Daniel J. Lewis: Inspiner, you would get to see all the other podcasts that Brian

Daniel J. Lewis: has been on or been a guest on or hosted. That

Daniel J. Lewis: kind of thing can be brought into the app. So

Daniel J. Lewis: all of this stuff, then so many more features too, is

Daniel J. Lewis: about giving the podcaster more control, more features,

Daniel J. Lewis: giving the audience more ways to engage with the podcast and learn about

Daniel J. Lewis: the podcast, and giving developers more opportunities

Daniel J. Lewis: to make their apps better and a more engaging experience to

Daniel J. Lewis: keep the audience inside of the app. And even for

Daniel J. Lewis: advertisers, there are opportunities like being able to better

Daniel J. Lewis: track consumption of an episode or track the

Daniel J. Lewis: engagement a little bit better or like with chapters. That's another

Daniel J. Lewis: thing, another really fun feature. We've had chapters in podcasting for a

Daniel J. Lewis: while, and a chapter is think of it like this. If you're listening

Daniel J. Lewis: to an audio podcast, and then an image pops

Daniel J. Lewis: up at a certain point for your sponsor or something that you're talking

Daniel J. Lewis: about. Maybe you're talking about Hindenburg, and so you display the Hindenburg

Daniel J. Lewis: logo and a link to Hindenburg that's made possible with a

Daniel J. Lewis: chapter when it happens in the middle of the episode. We've had chapters

Daniel J. Lewis: for a long time before, m p 3 chapters, enhanced AAC

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast, but the big problem with that was they were embedded in

Daniel J. Lewis: the media file. So if you have ever wanted to change the chapters,

Daniel J. Lewis: you had to change the media file. So if you wanted to update

Daniel J. Lewis: a chapter, especially for the audience that already downloaded your

Daniel J. Lewis: episodes, you couldn't update it. They would have to redownload it, but would they

Daniel J. Lewis: wouldn't even know to do that just to get new chapters. So podcasting

Daniel J. Lewis: 2.0 has what we call now super chapters, and that

Daniel J. Lewis: extends things. 1st, it moves it outside of the media file

Daniel J. Lewis: into a separate file so you can update those chapters

Daniel J. Lewis: anytime, in the podcast apps that support these modern

Daniel J. Lewis: chapters will check the chapters every time your audience engages with

Daniel J. Lewis: your episode, so it looks for any updates. You can do really cool

Daniel J. Lewis: things with that that can help you as the podcaster, help the audience, even help

Daniel J. Lewis: advertisers too, like maybe an advertiser, you're using

Daniel J. Lewis: dynamic ad insertion, and you can then make whatever that

Daniel J. Lewis: chapter link is for your advertiser, you can switch it out based on whatever

Daniel J. Lewis: your advertiser is for that or whatever you are promoting. Maybe you're

Daniel J. Lewis: promoting a limited time thing. So for

Daniel J. Lewis: this week, the image of that chapter is something that says, like,

Daniel J. Lewis: this week only, and then, a few days later, it

Daniel J. Lewis: says 2 days left. And then after this week, that image then

Daniel J. Lewis: says, sorry, this isn't available anymore or check back later or something

Daniel J. Lewis: like that, and that's all done without your having to

Daniel J. Lewis: reupload your media file or anyone having to redownload the

Daniel J. Lewis: episode or anything like that. It's much more dynamic. So it's

Daniel J. Lewis: so much more engagement is possible with podcasting 2 point

Daniel J. Lewis: o. So since we're a show by editors for

editors, why should editors care? And how do we

absorb and process this knowledge and then convey it to our

clients? Brian? I've got my podcaster hat on right now, and I'm loving this. And

part of me is going, how do I do all these things? The other part

is if I put on my editor's head, like, is there a way that I

can use this to differentiate myself? Is there a way that I can use this

to bring value to my clients that they wouldn't have normally expected in a way

that's valuable to them? Like, I'm gonna be selfish. How can I make it valuable

to me? Yeah. Most of this happens on the publishing side because

Daniel J. Lewis: it's in the RSS feed. So most of it would then

Daniel J. Lewis: be something that if you're only editing the audio or

Daniel J. Lewis: video of the episode,

Daniel J. Lewis: and eventually someday coming to Adobe Audition and

Daniel J. Lewis: Audacity recently started implementing transcripts in Audacity,

Daniel J. Lewis: there's the option and the opportunity for you as the

Daniel J. Lewis: editor to go ahead and get that transcript for your

Daniel J. Lewis: client. And as you're editing the audio,

Daniel J. Lewis: you're able to also refine the transcript a little bit because you're

Daniel J. Lewis: familiar with what's in the episode. Like, for example, when I edit my own transcripts,

Daniel J. Lewis: and I use an AI system to generate my transcripts, but one

Daniel J. Lewis: of the things I look for is I always look for, proper nouns

Daniel J. Lewis: and URLs, and I go back and correct those. Because, like, just my own

Daniel J. Lewis: domain, for example, theaudacitytopodcast.com,

Daniel J. Lewis: there are several things that the AI often gets wrong. Like,

Daniel J. Lewis: sometimes it doesn't include the word the in the

Daniel J. Lewis: domain. Sometimes it has that as the space

Daniel J. Lewis: audacity to podcast. Sometimes it says the 2 is the number

Daniel J. Lewis: 2 instead of t o. Sometimes

Daniel J. Lewis: it hears audacity as some different word

Daniel J. Lewis: like oddity or something else like that, and so weird things

Daniel J. Lewis: like that can happen. So I just look for any occurrence of, like,

Daniel J. Lewis: .com, .org, .net based on whatever I remember saying in my episode.

Daniel J. Lewis: I look for any occurrence of a slash to make sure whatever comes after the

Daniel J. Lewis: slash is correct. So like theaudacitytopodcast.com/microphones.

Daniel J. Lewis: So I check to make sure that's correct, And those proper nouns, I

Daniel J. Lewis: can check. So this is because I'm familiar with my own content and

Daniel J. Lewis: what I said in it, I can correct the transcript. So you as

Daniel J. Lewis: editors could also do that same thing, especially if you're working

Daniel J. Lewis: with a tool. Now several of them are starting to let you see the

Daniel J. Lewis: transcript in your editing workflow. You could very easily

Daniel J. Lewis: see, wait, that transcript doesn't match what was just now

Daniel J. Lewis: said. I'm just gonna correct that really quickly. And, yeah, that does

Daniel J. Lewis: take a little bit more time, but then that's a value add that you

Daniel J. Lewis: can offer to your clients to say, by the time

Daniel J. Lewis: this episode is edited, I can also provide for you the

Daniel J. Lewis: transcript. It's AI powered, but I did a little bit of touching

Daniel J. Lewis: up as I was going through and editing your content to make sure

Daniel J. Lewis: your names, brand names, proper nouns were all correct, and your

Daniel J. Lewis: URLs are all correct. You can offer that. As well as

Daniel J. Lewis: since you're working with the audio, you could either

Daniel J. Lewis: by AI powered or just as you're making it, you could take

Daniel J. Lewis: note of the time stamps for when the subject

Daniel J. Lewis: changed because those could be chapters, and you could offer

Daniel J. Lewis: those chapters, even create the chapter file for

Daniel J. Lewis: your client so that they could upload that in their system or copy and

Daniel J. Lewis: paste it. So that could be something too that's coming then

Daniel J. Lewis: from the audio editing process. That then is

Daniel J. Lewis: a value add for you to then give to them and

Daniel J. Lewis: say, here's something else. Now your podcast can be podcasting 2 point

Daniel J. Lewis: o compliant because here are these 2 things I've done for you that you can

Daniel J. Lewis: then add in your publishing tool, or if you work with the publishing

Daniel J. Lewis: tool yourself, certainly, you can do a lot more for them with

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2 point o. So I do publish for,

like, half my clients. About half of them, I send them the file back,

and the other half, I put into their media host, some of which have podcast

two point o and some of them that are getting there maybe.

Daniel J. Lewis: Lipson. I didn't say any memes. I

Daniel J. Lewis: didn't say Lipson. Like, who was talking about Lipson? Who who

Daniel J. Lewis: thinks that Lipson is behind on this? But that's a great

point. Right? Because as these are new features, right, they're not

evenly supported among media hosts. How much would we have to

stay on top of which hosts our clients are using and

what's available to them. Because I would hate to I'm not gonna throw

any particular company on the bus. But let's say that I was creating the chapters

for them, and I haven't done my due diligence or I'm on a consulting call

and they haven't decided who they're gonna host with and then they hire me. I

provide them this chapter's file, and their host doesn't support it. Like, that's kind of

an embarrassing situation to be in. I'm charging them for something that they now can't

use. Do we have to stay on top of this? Like, what are your thoughts?

Daniel J. Lewis: It is something that I think that you can encourage your clients to

Daniel J. Lewis: make sure that they're using a hosting provider that supports podcasting 2 point

Daniel J. Lewis: o or at least gives the flexibility that you can add

Daniel J. Lewis: these tags in manually yourself, which gets complicated.

Daniel J. Lewis: I'm working on the website. We didn't even mention this. Podcasting2.org

Daniel J. Lewis: is now the home of podcasting 2 point o. It has a lot of technical

Daniel J. Lewis: technical information there, but we're also working on making it a

Daniel J. Lewis: whole lot more user friendly, and podcaster and

Daniel J. Lewis: audience friendly and speaking in regular terms that

Daniel J. Lewis: mere mortals, the rest of us can understand, but we really wanna

Daniel J. Lewis: focus on the benefits through that site. So one of the things I'm making

Daniel J. Lewis: there is a tag generator. So even if

Daniel J. Lewis: like, from since I mentioned Libsyn, Libsyn

Daniel J. Lewis: 4 lets you actually manually insert RSS tags. I

Daniel J. Lewis: think Podomatic also lets you

Daniel J. Lewis: manually insert some RSS tags yourself. So even if they don't

Daniel J. Lewis: support some of these features, if you have that ability to put in the RSS

Daniel J. Lewis: code yourself, you could generate that and put that in. But the

Daniel J. Lewis: the big thing so if someone is let's say they're

Daniel J. Lewis: going to Spotify for podcasters, why would you have them

Daniel J. Lewis: as a client if they're gonna do that? But that aside, if they're going

on It's a conversation we've had. Yeah. And if they're going on a

Daniel J. Lewis: platform like that, you could encourage them to do something

Daniel J. Lewis: different, but if they're really set on whatever platform it is,

Daniel J. Lewis: I mentioned Spotify for Podcasters because that's probably going to be the last

Daniel J. Lewis: ever to support podcasting 2 point o. What you could do

Daniel J. Lewis: is if they just will not switch, you still

Daniel J. Lewis: have an option of a couple services are starting

Daniel J. Lewis: to enable you to layer on some of these features.

Daniel J. Lewis: Like, Blueberry has a service called podcast mirror,

Daniel J. Lewis: podcastmirror.com. It was free for a while. Now it does

Daniel J. Lewis: cost. There is no free plan. You might remember the old

Daniel J. Lewis: days of FeedBurner where we would take an RSS feed that

Daniel J. Lewis: was not a podcast RSS feed and turn it into a

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast RSS feed with feed burner through what back then they had the

Daniel J. Lewis: smart cast feature. Feed burner is completely rebuilt now. It's

Daniel J. Lewis: really just pretty much a feed proxy service. You still can add some of

Daniel J. Lewis: that podcast information. Don't use it like that, but

Daniel J. Lewis: what podcast mirror from Blueberry, the podcast hosting company,

Daniel J. Lewis: what podcast mirror can do is it can take a podcasting 1

Daniel J. Lewis: point o feed and turn it into a podcasting 2 point o

Daniel J. Lewis: feed, allowing you to add some extra stuff

Daniel J. Lewis: on mainly the main top level. So you can't add

Daniel J. Lewis: the episode transcripts, at least not yet. You can't add

Daniel J. Lewis: episode level information, but you could add things like

Daniel J. Lewis: the value for value, Satoshi streaming. You could add

Daniel J. Lewis: things like the person tag at the top level of the

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast. You can add a few other things like that to the

Daniel J. Lewis: RSS feed. So you'd run your feed through podcast

Daniel J. Lewis: mirror, and on the other side, you get a new feed URL

Daniel J. Lewis: that then has some of these podcasting 2 point o features.

Daniel J. Lewis: That does cost. Right now, it's I believe it's $60

Daniel J. Lewis: a year with Blueberry. I don't know if it's even part of their

Daniel J. Lewis: affiliate program that you're getting any kind of affiliate payment if you referred

Daniel J. Lewis: people to them. I'm not sure about that. But it's a proposal that you could

Daniel J. Lewis: include with them to say, alright, if you want

Daniel J. Lewis: transcripts and chapters, I'm happy to do that for you. That's going to be

Daniel J. Lewis: this little add on, an additional service, and we're going

Daniel J. Lewis: to have to set you up with PodcastMirror so that

Daniel J. Lewis: you can take advantage of a few of these more features. Although,

Daniel J. Lewis: unfortunately, chapters and transcripts are not something that PodcastMiner can do

Daniel J. Lewis: Right. Yet. They said it's just a technical limitation right

Daniel J. Lewis: now, so it's something I'm sure they're working on. So when I had these

consultation calls with new clients, which seem to be coming out of the

woodwork for me right now, and they say, which media host should I

choose? I'm starting to think I need to steer them away from certain

places and to other places, but I'm not sure which places those

are nor if how much it really matters. And I

don't have anybody on Lipson. I kind of hate to throw Lipson under the bus

Daniel J. Lewis: a bit because they've been around the space and supported podcasters

Daniel J. Lewis: for so long. It's just the truth that we have to be honest about

Daniel J. Lewis: is that they do not have native support for podcasting 2 point o

Daniel J. Lewis: features built in. So if you have a client that's really

Daniel J. Lewis: interested and wants to take advantage of the podcasting 2 point o features,

Daniel J. Lewis: The places that I personally recommend are if

Daniel J. Lewis: they like a WordPress workflow, then Blueberry because it's all right

Daniel J. Lewis: there with WordPress, and it integrates really nicely and everything. If

Daniel J. Lewis: they're not wanting a podcast focused workflow, then the

Daniel J. Lewis: other 2 places I highly recommend are Captivate and Buzzsprout.

Daniel J. Lewis: Both of them are really good with their podcasting 2 point o support,

Daniel J. Lewis: Captivate more so than Buzzsprout. And I think that Captivate,

Daniel J. Lewis: while they don't have the most podcasting 2 point o features,

Daniel J. Lewis: I think that they've implemented them the best, and

Daniel J. Lewis: Buzzsprout, I would say, is the easiest. I think that

would probably mirror my impressions of them. I've not worked on a Buzzsprout

show, but hearing them talk about how they work with their or how

their workflows work, because I listen to their podcast because I'm a nerd,

it sounds like they're very focused on that new indie podcaster that

doesn't wanna learn all the, the technical stuff. We're

hosted with Captivate, so I'm reasonably familiar with what they offer in

terms of 2 point o features. We've got some of them enabled for our show

right now. One thing I'm wondering is I would love

to be able to use the live item tag, but I don't think that that's

currently supported natively by Captivate. Is there a workaround

other than PodcastMirror? Right now, no.

Daniel J. Lewis: But that is something that you can do with Podcast Mirror

Daniel J. Lewis: because, technically, even though it's a live

Daniel J. Lewis: item, it actually goes at the channel level. So it would go

Daniel J. Lewis: before the episodes. It doesn't go inside an episode.

Daniel J. Lewis: It basically goes before the episodes even though it is an episode,

Daniel J. Lewis: technically different. So that is something that could work with podcast

Daniel J. Lewis: mirror. The support for these specific features

Daniel J. Lewis: is changing as some of these developers are implementing support,

Daniel J. Lewis: and it's changing in the apps too. So that's why podcasting

Daniel J. Lewis: 2.org exists is to help track some of this so you can

Daniel J. Lewis: see what features are supported in what apps. And there's going to a spin

Daniel J. Lewis: off-site, by the way, that I've actually been working on longer

Daniel J. Lewis: to show a whole grid of, like, this is how

Daniel J. Lewis: this feature works in this app, or this is

Daniel J. Lewis: supported fully in this app or partially in this app, even

Daniel J. Lewis: down to stuff like what apps support hyperlinks in their show

Daniel J. Lewis: notes, that kind of thing. But that's a spin off site that's not

Daniel J. Lewis: completely podcasting 2 point o related, but right now

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2.org, if you go there and, like, if you look at the

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast namespace section and you click on a tag, then you can

Daniel J. Lewis: see the publishing tools and the hosting providers that

Daniel J. Lewis: support that tag, so that if that particular

Daniel J. Lewis: feature is really important to you, then you can know this is what you should

Daniel J. Lewis: recommend then to your clients to use. And thinking

about how to, as a listener,

these aren't in Spotify. Spotify doesn't care. What app do

I need to download and have my listeners download to be able to

take advantage of these. Does that make sense? Yeah. Right

Daniel J. Lewis: now, it is limited, but it is growing. Because,

Daniel J. Lewis: like, for example, with Apple, with the upcoming Ios

Daniel J. Lewis: 17.4, or maybe it's even out by the time that the people

Daniel J. Lewis: listening, download this episode and listen to it. 17.4 is

Daniel J. Lewis: the version that will include support for the transcripts. So that

Daniel J. Lewis: will be inside of Apple Podcasts as of 17.4.

Daniel J. Lewis: Other popular apps, Podcast Addict supports a few of these things.

Daniel J. Lewis: Podcast Guru is supporting some of these things.

Daniel J. Lewis: Pocket Casts has done some work to

Daniel J. Lewis: support things, but they not fully, but they are

Daniel J. Lewis: excited about it. They just haven't done all that much yet.

Daniel J. Lewis: I don't quite know what's going on there. But then there are other apps that

Daniel J. Lewis: are more independent. Some of them programmed by 1

Daniel J. Lewis: person somewhere, and the best thing to do is go to

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2.org, and there's an apps page where you can then

Daniel J. Lewis: see here are all of the apps for right now, you can pick a

Daniel J. Lewis: platform. Like, you wanna see what's everything that works on iOS, what's

Daniel J. Lewis: everything that works on Android. You click on an app, then you get to see

Daniel J. Lewis: the list of here are the features that this app supports. So

Daniel J. Lewis: you can know, oh, this is a really good one, or try it out yourself

Daniel J. Lewis: to know how good it is that supports all of these features. These are important

Daniel J. Lewis: to my client. So this is why I'm going to suggest

Daniel J. Lewis: that my client then promote to their audience

Daniel J. Lewis: and encourage them even saying things like when they start

Daniel J. Lewis: to use some of these features, they could say things

Daniel J. Lewis: like, hey. If you need the transcript for this episode, did you know

Daniel J. Lewis: that I put transcripts out with the episode and you need a special

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast app to play it? Get the new podcast app through, and one

Daniel J. Lewis: of the places that you can send them is podcastapps.com or newpodcastapps.com or modernpodcastapps.com or

Daniel J. Lewis: podcastin2.org/apps.

Daniel J. Lewis: They all pretty much have the the same information. It's just different domains, different

Daniel J. Lewis: designs on these things, but encouraging then your clients

Daniel J. Lewis: to encourage their audience to use a modern podcast app

Daniel J. Lewis: to be able to take advantage of these features and

Daniel J. Lewis: to really focus on how does this benefit

Daniel J. Lewis: the audience. That's the thing that I think is always important to

Daniel J. Lewis: to bring this back to is even though we can get excited about some of

Daniel J. Lewis: the technical things or, oh, this is going to be so cool to make this

Daniel J. Lewis: possible, we need to really think about does the audience

Daniel J. Lewis: care? Not just even the podcast editors, but the people that

Daniel J. Lewis: we're editing for their people, do they care

Daniel J. Lewis: about this kind of stuff? And we can encourage them to care

Daniel J. Lewis: by pointing out the benefits of things like the transcripts, the

Daniel J. Lewis: engagement, the interactions, the opportunities

Daniel J. Lewis: to stream money to their favorite podcast through the value

Daniel J. Lewis: for value system that the the streaming Satoshis and all of

Daniel J. Lewis: that, that kind of thing focusing on that end

Daniel J. Lewis: user benefit. One of the things I'm wondering,

as an editor who occasionally gets questions from my clients, Is

it worth it for us to educate our clients or

even taking it a bit further if a client has heard something through

a certain unnamed podcast person at a large company

who thinks it's a big joke, right, is it worth investing the

time to do that? And if so, what are those specific benefits for our

clients that we should be prepared to to share with them that that will

help us build that? I have some ideas, but I wanna hear yours.

Daniel J. Lewis: Well, if not you, because some of your clients are might not even be

Daniel J. Lewis: listening to any podcast about podcasting or keeping up with podcasting

Daniel J. Lewis: news because maybe they're just so busy creating their content and then

Daniel J. Lewis: doing whatever else they do, running their business or their hobbies or their

Daniel J. Lewis: life, that they're just not interested in what's going on in the podcasting

Daniel J. Lewis: industry. So this can be opportunities for US

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast editors to step up and help educate your

Daniel J. Lewis: clients on here are some new cool things that you could do with your

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast. Would you be interested in taking advantage of these features?

Daniel J. Lewis: And I think that those top few features to really point

Daniel J. Lewis: them toward would be transcripts, chapters,

Daniel J. Lewis: and cross app comments. Those are the the big things that really stand out, I

Daniel J. Lewis: think, that don't cost any money, don't get involved that

Daniel J. Lewis: aren't involved with the crypto and the streaming Satoshis in case anyone is

Daniel J. Lewis: afraid of Bitcoin. But the Bitcoin thing, the streaming Satoshis is

Daniel J. Lewis: kind of nice to be able to do, or micropayments

Daniel J. Lewis: we could call it. I think those are some of the the

Daniel J. Lewis: top things to really focus on for the

Daniel J. Lewis: audiences. I'm actually glad that you mentioned that. The cross app

comments, of course, sounds great to me as a podcaster. I've always

thought it's ridiculous to have to send people somewhere else to have the conversation.

Right? We're having this. We wanna extend our conversation, so please

connect with me on, I don't know, Circle. So or Facebook

or whatever. So I I love that idea. Is that even

implemented? Yes. It is. And it is

Daniel J. Lewis: very cutting edge right now. It's a little bit complicated. There

Daniel J. Lewis: are some issues that need to be figured out, like moderation abilities

Daniel J. Lewis: and such, but it is something that is being worked on,

Daniel J. Lewis: and it is, I think, the most exciting feature because it is very

Daniel J. Lewis: audience focused. It's engaging. It's something a podcaster can get

Daniel J. Lewis: excited about. It just has to be supported, and

Daniel J. Lewis: there are some little hurdles to be worked through. But I think

Daniel J. Lewis: that this year, 2024 for the record, we will have

Daniel J. Lewis: this solved, and it will then be more by other

Daniel J. Lewis: apps. Right now, it's just kind of a lot of stuff is questionable

Daniel J. Lewis: and a little bit seemingly complicated, but some people are

Daniel J. Lewis: saying, no. It's not all that complicated for developers to support this,

Daniel J. Lewis: but it's going to get easier. And that's the cool thing about all of this

Daniel J. Lewis: is that the technology will disappear

Daniel J. Lewis: in the sense that we won't have to care about the technology. It can just

Daniel J. Lewis: get to the point of you publish a podcast episode,

Daniel J. Lewis: and now you can comment from whatever app you want. You the actual

Daniel J. Lewis: technology you use doesn't matter. That's coming. We're working toward that.

Daniel J. Lewis: So that's definitely one of the exciting things. I I think I can't remember if

Daniel J. Lewis: I said it too, but chapters would be I think another really cool thing that

Daniel J. Lewis: could help break up the content, make the content more reviewable.

Daniel J. Lewis: Yeah. That does mean it's also skippable, but would you rather your

Daniel J. Lewis: audience abandon your episode or skip to exactly what they

Daniel J. Lewis: want? That's a good question that you could ask to your clients if they're saying,

Daniel J. Lewis: well, would won't they be able to skip? Yeah. And that's a good

Daniel J. Lewis: thing. Yeah. And David says that they're using it. I'm

assuming that he's talking about the cross app comments. That,

to me, seems like the no brainer because I have never talked to a client

who said I'm getting too much engagement. I wish people would stop getting back to

me. Right? What I always hear is I'm talking into a vacuum.

I never hear anything. I ask people to email me, and they don't.

Yeah. Of course, this can't necessarily fix that, but it

certainly removes a hurdle. Oh, for sure. And that big

Daniel J. Lewis: hurdle of stepping outside of the app,

Daniel J. Lewis: that's a big one because once you leave the app,

Daniel J. Lewis: then where do you go? And when you're outside of the app, there are all

Daniel J. Lewis: of these other distractions of other apps or you get on

Daniel J. Lewis: to Twitter to send a tweet, an x

Daniel J. Lewis: tweet, which sounds like you're tweeting your x, that's not it.

Let's not do that. Yeah. You get on there and you want to send a

Daniel J. Lewis: comment and then you get distracted by, oh, here are these other things I'm reading

Daniel J. Lewis: or just if you're doing this while driving, well, don't.

Daniel J. Lewis: You can't do that. But what if it could be

Daniel J. Lewis: so that while you're listening to a podcast and you have something you wanna

Daniel J. Lewis: say back to the podcast, you just press a button

Daniel J. Lewis: and start talking, and let go of the button or press the button

Daniel J. Lewis: again. You stop talking, confirm it, send it, and that's your

Daniel J. Lewis: app. That's your comment, and it's posted in the app, and it's posted in

Daniel J. Lewis: all of the other apps. It could be that kind of thing, and

Daniel J. Lewis: it's right there inside of the app. So keeping people inside

Daniel J. Lewis: of the app then makes that that,

Daniel J. Lewis: process for people to engage so much more seamless because they

Daniel J. Lewis: don't have to go somewhere else then. And so one of the things also I've

heard is about a pod roll to keep people in the app as a 2

point o that you can, like, recommend your favorite pod to, hey. If you

like this, you'd like them too. I mean, am I on target? Or

Daniel J. Lewis: Yes. Exactly. Right now, if you look in Apple Podcasts, for example,

Daniel J. Lewis: many podcasts will have this, and I've started tracking this with one of my other

Daniel J. Lewis: services, that you'll see basically, like, you

Daniel J. Lewis: might also like or listeners also listens to. That's all algorithmically

Daniel J. Lewis: generated, and you can't control that. So maybe, you know,

Daniel J. Lewis: you've got the I Love Cats podcast, and then

Daniel J. Lewis: down at the bottom is the Cats Are Evil, Let's Kill All

Daniel J. Lewis: Cats podcast. You don't want that recommended on

Daniel J. Lewis: your podcast. No. Apple for some reason decided you've got enough crossover

Daniel J. Lewis: audience between these 2 podcasts that they're recommending that, or

Daniel J. Lewis: maybe you get more control of that with your own recommendations

Daniel J. Lewis: and that's powered by Podroll. You could also recommend your other

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasts that you host or your clients could recommend their other podcasts

Daniel J. Lewis: or other podcasts that they think are very relevant, have some

Daniel J. Lewis: opportunity to cross promote, even maybe selling some

Daniel J. Lewis: cross promotion there. What this does then in the apps when

Daniel J. Lewis: you put in this pod roll, and I hate the name,

Daniel J. Lewis: but the pod roll comes from the idea of blog roll, and some people

Daniel J. Lewis: don't even know what blog roll was. It it's really just it's a

Daniel J. Lewis: word to describe recommending other podcasts.

Daniel J. Lewis: So think of it as recommendations. You put in there

Daniel J. Lewis: a certain number of podcasts that you want to recommend, whatever that number is, and

Daniel J. Lewis: then these podcast apps that support it can then display that, and they

Daniel J. Lewis: might display it in different ways. It might say something like this podcast

Daniel J. Lewis: also recommends these, or you might also like

Daniel J. Lewis: just like Apple Podcasts has, but the thing is the podcaster

Daniel J. Lewis: is in control of this. And that presents

Daniel J. Lewis: all kinds of opportunities then for some of the collaboration between

Daniel J. Lewis: these different podcasters and the cross promotion or just growing

Daniel J. Lewis: the other podcasts that that same podcaster hosts.

Do wanna hit a quick comment before we change directions. David's saying that

people are always like they have to install another app. Don't like that. Yeah. Totally

get that. I'm in the same boat. And especially when I think about if I

was to send people to a platform that's specifically

designed to distract them. Right? Most of our

platforms are designed to get in the way of what you wanted to do to

keep you there so you come back and do what you forgot to do. Right?

And so if it's comment on my thing, I want them to be able to

do that. So I'm totally with that. I would love to be able to get

people into one place that's distraction free so they could

focus and then move on with their lives. Thinking about this, again, putting on the

editor or the producer or the podcast manager hat, are there things that we need

to be careful of or cautious about when it comes to Podcasting 2

point o and our clients' shows? If you are working with

Daniel J. Lewis: transcripts, this is something that you need to watch out for is

Daniel J. Lewis: potential liability. If you're working

Daniel J. Lewis: and you might not always know what to look for because

Daniel J. Lewis: it could come up in random places, but just an

Daniel J. Lewis: example here. If your client

Daniel J. Lewis: said in the podcast, let's not kill puppies,

Daniel J. Lewis: but the transcript didn't catch the word not. So the

Daniel J. Lewis: transcript would say, let's kill puppies. You have to watch

Daniel J. Lewis: out for that kind of thing. That could be very

Daniel J. Lewis: problematic because then what if it's some kind of medical advice that's being

Daniel J. Lewis: given? What if it's financial advice or anything like that

Daniel J. Lewis: that if the wrong advice is practiced, then

Daniel J. Lewis: it puts someone in trouble, the podcaster in trouble. And then the podcaster would

Daniel J. Lewis: say, well, I didn't personally write that. It was my editor who

Daniel J. Lewis: put that in there, so then you're in trouble for having something

Daniel J. Lewis: that wasn't correct. That kind of thing is not very

Daniel J. Lewis: likely to happen. You would have to look out for

Daniel J. Lewis: the kinds of fields where stuff could get in

Daniel J. Lewis: more trouble like the scientific, medical, financial, legal

Daniel J. Lewis: fields. Some of those would be more to be very, very

Daniel J. Lewis: careful with those kinds of things. Some of the other dangers of

Daniel J. Lewis: this would be overselling the dream of this because all of these

Daniel J. Lewis: features are great and everything. The unfortunate

Daniel J. Lewis: truth is that as of February 2024,

Daniel J. Lewis: the apps that support all of these cool features make up

Daniel J. Lewis: about maybe 2 to 3% of the global

Daniel J. Lewis: downloads of podcasts. Excluding Apple, I'm guessing since

17.4 isn't out yet. Of course. So that will significantly change. But,

Daniel J. Lewis: like, the live item tag or cross app comments or things like

Daniel J. Lewis: that, not very much support right

Daniel J. Lewis: now. So if you're telling someone about, hey. Let's get you

Daniel J. Lewis: involved with cross app comments, and then they expect to see it inside

Daniel J. Lewis: of Spotify, that's not gonna happen. So you have to be careful not to

Daniel J. Lewis: oversell what's possible. But the cool thing is that the

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasts that support these new features

Daniel J. Lewis: and promote the modern apps that support these features,

Daniel J. Lewis: they see a completely different shift. So instead of

Daniel J. Lewis: for most podcasters, Apple Podcasts is going to be number 1, and then

Daniel J. Lewis: Spotify number 2. They some of these platforms see or

Daniel J. Lewis: these podcasters see significant shifts where instead of it being Apple

Daniel J. Lewis: at number 1, it's whatever the particular app is that they

Daniel J. Lewis: recommend the most as number 1. And then

Daniel J. Lewis: their audience more of their audience is able to take advantage of those

Daniel J. Lewis: features. I was checking my stats because I was like, pretty sure Apple is

our winner. And I shouldn't do this because I'm on a show, but I did

it anyway. So, yeah, Apple's still our winner, but we we don't really

push the other app. So we do have some of those 2 point o features

enabled, but we haven't spent any time really promoting

other apps. Is that something that you would encourage a show like us

that's really for the editors to do? It could be, especially because the

Daniel J. Lewis: editors need to be familiar with what are some of these cool new features coming

Daniel J. Lewis: so that they can better promote it to their clients. You can

Daniel J. Lewis: better promote it to your clients, and it would be nice to then try

Daniel J. Lewis: some of these things. And where this can then trickle

Daniel J. Lewis: down to the podcasters and what they do is not only just recommending

Daniel J. Lewis: these apps in their podcasts or saying, hey. You might wanna try this other

Daniel J. Lewis: app, but they might decide to change some of their marketing

Daniel J. Lewis: instead of making their Apple Podcasts or Spotify link the

Daniel J. Lewis: most prominent link on their website. Maybe instead,

Daniel J. Lewis: they're linking to one of these other apps that a couple of them

Daniel J. Lewis: are cross platform. Some of them are only Android, some are

Daniel J. Lewis: only iOS, but they could make those decisions if

Daniel J. Lewis: they decide, wow, this experience is so much better for

Daniel J. Lewis: my audience. I really want to get my audience moved over to this

Daniel J. Lewis: other app. They can make those decisions to stop saying, find us

Daniel J. Lewis: an Apple Podcasts or wherever get you get your podcast. They could instead instead

Daniel J. Lewis: say, well, I really suggest they don't say podcast apps in

Daniel J. Lewis: their calls to action, but they could link to their

Daniel J. Lewis: page where their page then has those

Daniel J. Lewis: modern apps more prominent than anything else. And then the

Daniel J. Lewis: audience can start to move over, especially if

Daniel J. Lewis: the podcaster is educated by you, the editor,

Daniel J. Lewis: and the podcaster then educates their audience on this is the

Daniel J. Lewis: benefit you would get by switching over to this other app. On a

personal level, I've been on a quest to find a good podcasting 2 point o

app that is cross platform because I like Cast O Matic, but

it's iOS only, and I don't like that. I've been checking out

Podcast Guru, but their list feature is just

abysmal. Like, they've got a lot of things figured out really well and

but, like, I put things into a list so I can listen to them or

I have it on them. Anyway, I'm gonna shut up about that. I do have

a, a question that's a little bit uncomfortable to bring up. But

one of the things that we were looking for is how

well represented is the broader community within the podcast two point o

space. And what I noticed is almost all of the voices that I'm

hearing are male. And I'm wondering, are there any women

involved in this? Is it truly a dude thing? And if so, like, what can

is there anything that can be done? Well, here's the thing,

Daniel J. Lewis: and this some people might not like the way that I put this. I

Daniel J. Lewis: mean, I I have to refer to stereotypes here because

Daniel J. Lewis: stereotypes exist because they're kind of true in many cases.

Daniel J. Lewis: Look back to the beginning of podcasting itself. It was

Daniel J. Lewis: almost all male dominated both on the audience side and the

Daniel J. Lewis: producer side because podcasting is very geeky,

Daniel J. Lewis: and geeky stuff tends to attract

Daniel J. Lewis: more men than women. That's just kind of the nature of the differences

Daniel J. Lewis: between men and women. So because of that, because

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2.0 right now is still very geeky

Daniel J. Lewis: and technical, although it's already gotten easier than it was a

Daniel J. Lewis: couple of years ago. Because it's kind of geeky, that tends to

Daniel J. Lewis: attract a more geeky audience, which tends

Daniel J. Lewis: to be more male. That said,

Daniel J. Lewis: there are some women in the space. I don't think there are

Daniel J. Lewis: any women developing the apps themselves, but I

Daniel J. Lewis: know that, she goes by Dame Jennifer. I don't know what it is with

Daniel J. Lewis: Jennifers and podcasting you guys, but, there

Daniel J. Lewis: is, yeah, a woman who is involved and excited about this, has

Daniel J. Lewis: supported it, and she is not a programmer. She's

Daniel J. Lewis: an animator actually, and she just is passionate

Daniel J. Lewis: about podcasts, and so she's become somewhat of an evangelist for

Daniel J. Lewis: this and supporting it and helping communicate about it and

Daniel J. Lewis: make little videos here and there and things, and that's something that she's

Daniel J. Lewis: able to do, interested in doing even though she's not developing.

Daniel J. Lewis: And I'm sure there are others. Well,

Daniel J. Lewis: take, Elsie Escobar, for example, has said in

Daniel J. Lewis: the feed, Lipson's podcast, that she said some of these features

Daniel J. Lewis: are so exciting, but how do we communicate this? How do

Daniel J. Lewis: we explain this? Or there's limited support. She's bringing out the fact that,

Daniel J. Lewis: yes, there's this truth. Well, her saying that in

Daniel J. Lewis: a recent episode of Libsyn's The Feed is what really

Daniel J. Lewis: pushed James Cridland and I to finally make

Daniel J. Lewis: something happen, and that's why we launched podcasting 2.org

Daniel J. Lewis: to try to solve that problem of people don't

Daniel J. Lewis: understand this, or how do we market this? So

Daniel J. Lewis: that we're hoping that then something like that resource instead

Daniel J. Lewis: of someone like Elsie Escobar see saying this is

Daniel J. Lewis: great, but instead she can just say, this is

Daniel J. Lewis: great. Go here to learn more. So she could become an

Daniel J. Lewis: evangelist because she said she's interested in this. As far as, like, where

Daniel J. Lewis: else there are men or women, I don't really pay attention

Daniel J. Lewis: to that. Sure. So I can't really say. And please don't ask me about

Daniel J. Lewis: skin color or ethnicities because I really have no idea. At all interested in

that. I was more interested because it is something that I look for,

and I'm of the opinion that there are probably some of those women out there,

we just don't know who they are, and I would love to see because I

came in late, but I'm familiar with the history. I would love to see us

shortcut that cycle. Right? So I recognize that it's following a

similar pattern. I would love to see us shortcut that. So if there are women

out there that are technically minded or just wanna be that evangelist, my

encouragement would be please do it. Right? And some of these

Daniel J. Lewis: features, again, speaking in stereotypes here, I think,

Daniel J. Lewis: Brian, you and I can probably talk about podcasting

Daniel J. Lewis: for hours on end to someone and never let them

Daniel J. Lewis: speak at all Because sometimes we can just really nerd

Daniel J. Lewis: out, and then the other person's just like, okay.

Daniel J. Lewis: Bye. But for women, Jennifer, you

Daniel J. Lewis: probably again, I know I'm speaking in stereotypes, but

Daniel J. Lewis: women stereotypically connect more emotionally,

Daniel J. Lewis: and they review conversations in their minds when

Daniel J. Lewis: they're away from the conversation. They really like the

Daniel J. Lewis: conversations with people, and what I'm leading this into

Daniel J. Lewis: is cross app comments. So, like, even for women

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasters, this presents a great opportunity for them

Daniel J. Lewis: to have those conversations more with their audience,

Daniel J. Lewis: to build more intimate connections with their audience, to engage on a

Daniel J. Lewis: deeper level right there inside of the app. So

Daniel J. Lewis: it's not just about, hey. I'm gonna make my podcast look

Daniel J. Lewis: better, or, hey. I'm gonna offer transcripts, but it can be about

Daniel J. Lewis: making those deeper more personal connections

Daniel J. Lewis: with the podcaster and their audience and even enabling the

Daniel J. Lewis: audience to connect more with each other,

Daniel J. Lewis: building a community. And that's also a big

Daniel J. Lewis: thing of what podcasting 2.0 can do is to help

Daniel J. Lewis: then those relationships be fostered. I did

wanna hit we had one other comment from David, helping a lot of people he

met at Podfest get rolling on some two point o features,

telling them about getting workflows in places and getting the mainstream will put them ahead

of the game. So, yeah, I think that's that's absolutely great.

And, you know, again, my heart really is just how can we get as

many people as possible enfranchised in this? Because I think it's good

For us as editors, I think we do have to kinda take that step back

and go, okay. How do I make sure that this is valuable for my clients?

Because it can be it can feel the people like we're pushing stuff on them.

And I don't think that's that's not my desire. But at the same time, I

do want people to take advantage of what's out there. I'm gonna shut up about

that. Jennifer, did you wanna move on to the Poddecks question, or did you have

something else? Nope. I was moving on to Poddecks. Time for the Poddecks question of

the day. This is where, Daniel, you get to choose a number between 1 and

4. We actually have physical cards. These aren't even available anymore. So

choose a number from 1 to 4. 3. 1, 2, 3.

You know, we mentioned sometimes there are some that don't make it on the air.

You managed to do that. Choose a number between 13. 3.

Okay. Maybe you should look at all the choices before we start

next time. Did you just, like, pick all the

Daniel J. Lewis: bad ones from here? I I think I did. Alright. So the question

for today is when were your parents most disappointed in you?

And I'm not sure I wanna answer that one on the air. So if

anybody else wants to, answer that 1 in the comments, you can. How

about I just choose 1? What was your first screen name? We'll go

with that one because that's fun. And the first one I can

remember was Maestro Damas because, you know, I wanted to

be bigger than I really was, and there was a music thing going on there,

so that was mine. What's everybody else's? Selyn DRG.

What? Selyn DRG? S e l y n

n d r g. There's way too much to unpack there. I'm not

gonna do it. Do you do you even remember your

first screen name, Daniel? Yeah. It was s g t kids,

Daniel J. Lewis: k I d z, because my first business

Daniel J. Lewis: was selling kids' books. I was a teenager at that point,

Daniel J. Lewis: selling kids' books like Adventures and Odyssey, audio drama, children's

Daniel J. Lewis: books, and videos and stuff. I was a reseller for Focus on the Family and

Daniel J. Lewis: some other providers, and my mom had

Daniel J. Lewis: a business also selling Christian books and bread baking supplies and

Daniel J. Lewis: certain stuff, and her business was called simply good things.

Daniel J. Lewis: So I thought, well, I'm gonna have the kids division of my mom's

Daniel J. Lewis: business so that she can handle all that legal stuff, And so my

Daniel J. Lewis: business would be SGT Kids, but then, like, certain people

Daniel J. Lewis: started calling it sergeant kids and Sergeant. Yeah. That's what I thought

immediately. Nice. Well, we thank everyone for joining

us live. If you miss it, you can always come back and

watch from the beginning or catch it when it drops. And if you wanna be

a guest on our show, what do you do, Brian? Oh, it's nearly

impossible. You have to go to podcasteditorsmastermind.com/beaguest.

We chose that link because I could remember it. That'll take you to a magical

form that you fill out and let us know if you'd like to be a

guest, how we can contact you, what you'd like to talk about. You can also

use that form to suggest a topic. So if podcasting 2.0 didn't

resonate with you, but you really wanna know how to land that next client, just

let us know that's something you'd like us to cover, and we'll see if we

can get that in the queue. And then if it's really about how you land

your next client, go back and listen to q 4 of 2023.

We did cover that. Yeah. Because that's all we talked about. I'm Jennifer Longworth. You

can find me at bourbonbarrelpodcasting.com and Instagram Burbn

Barrel podcasting. Below me is Bryan Entzmingerr. You can

find me at toptieraudio.com. And Daniel has

been our special guest today. What's the best place for people to connect with

you? Please go to theaudacitytopodcast.com.

Not appearing in today's episode are Daniel Abindroth at

Rothmedia.audio and Carrie Caulfield at

carrie.land. Thank you all so much for joining us, and we'll see

you in a couple weeks. Our next guest will be Heather Seitzwolff talking about

scope creep. Thank you. Yay.

Daniel J. Lewis: So How much is that?