We are looking forward our way from Studio C.

and the five one one studios.

This is Brett and with me, as always, is Carol.

How are you this morning? I'm good, Brad.

How's it going? Good.

All right.

So we're pretty excited with today's guest.

You all know

many of us see government offices as a one dimensional place to solve a problem.

So transportation clears and builds roads.

And needless to say, they've been busy

here in Columbus for the last couple of months.

But human resources employees, workers, courts take care of law breakers.

Well, then I got to the auditors website and I have a whole new perspective on

issues that have to be addressed to make our community stable and secure.

Yeah, we found that the auditors office has such varied areas of responsibility

that I'm guessing many citizens we figured as well.

They just don't understand the scope of work.

If a citizen were to review the auditors

website, if you get some time, you're going to have the impression that every

task not wanted by another agency was published in the auditors lab.

However, when you filter through the details, the auditor is here to help each

county resident in numerous ways, including maintaining the fiscal integrity

of the county, its funds and reports, which is really important for maintaining

property value, information on homes and businesses which every one of us gets

every year to take a look at what our homes are supposedly valued at

maintaining a safe environment for our residents dog, while also insurance items

can be measured, whether it's gas in our cars or cigarets purchased and most

importantly, maintaining vast quantities of information databases needed for safety

securely and easily meeting the needs of the county.

Yes. And it is it's

I have a whole new perspective and respect

for our Franklin County auditor, Michael N.S.A., who's joining us today.

Thank you so much for coming. Thank you.

I'm glad to be here. So understand Siano.

It's a nice long I'm used to calling him Mike.

So Jeff East.

This is tough.

So let's first hear your background.

Tell us a little bit about what you've

done, your path to the auditors office, and then can you kind of like

let us figure out how this organization works and your responsibilities.

You're the chief fiscal and measurement guy for the county.

I am happy to talk about all functions. County Auditor.

I would agree.

It did appear that when they were passing out duties and responsibilities, the

auditors weren't in the room at all for this meeting.

Yes, yeah. Yeah.

Tag, you're it. Yeah.

So born in Columbus, Mount Carmel, we take a lot of pride.

And having been born in Franklinton, mom and dad had a place up in the hilltop,

boldly moved to the short north in the early 80s, which was unheard of for

families to do and just really had a great childhood.

With Ohio State being my background

or backyard and seeing our community continue to grow.

I did grow up in a political household.

Dad was an elected official on day one when I was born.

I had already served in the General Assembly about six years.

Mom worked for a state agency.

And what I really share with folks that left the impression before Facebook,

before Twitter, before podcast's, dad gave out our home phone number.

And so at a very early age, I would be the front line constituent

intake person if I was the first one to answer the phone.

I don't title title. I always say so.

You are the one I called. Is that it?

Occasionally.

And so having been a household and seen

the impact an elected official can have, it was really wonderful.

And so that led, as I kind of thought, through what I wanted to do in my future.

My first goal at eighteen was to leave Ohio, never come back.

So I went south to University Richmond go spiders.

But knowing the ability to buy a home, the opportunities that central Ohio had as a

growing community, I really drew me back and then starting a family and so came

back for law school at Ohio State, started working.

And then Secretary of State Jennifer Bruner's office during election law led to

the opportunity to become director of the French County Board of Elections.

I got to tackle the 08 presidential election, which sounds

much different than what we experience now.

And it was but that was when the Board of

Elections was still held, quartered at the old Karsai.

We used Vets' Memoria, the Old Vets Memorial as the early vote center.

And we had a record breaking early votes and lines and lines and lines.

But it was the first election in Ohio since 2000, 2004 that people

really were looking for accountability, improving the experiences that voters had.

And so the General Assembly had opened up

a lot of laws and really started down that path of what access could mean.

What could voting mean? Good.

Talk to a.

Although you can't both run elections and run for office, so February 18, 2010,

resigned from the Board of Elections, turned around, came back in and filed

paperwork to run for the then 25th House District.

It was central west. Southern Franklin County

was successful, one with one percent of the vote because my opponent withdrew

either run scared or run unopposed.

Moment, take the win.

It's a W.

They got to represent that district.

For two years, I found myself in a hyper, hyper gerrymandered situation.

So they combined six other districts to

form the newly created 18th House District.

Put it in context.

That 25th House District was about 120 square miles.

The House District was 22.

They packed, packed and packed voters.

But it was still the area that I had the

largest portion so well other and I lived in.

And so it was able to run for the 18th House District, ran two more times,

but had the opportunity again and again there, decided to leave Oklahoma City

Council and run for mayor to move to the local level.

A lot of people wonder, why would you go from the state to the local

at the state representative, about 120000 people in the city of Columbus writ large.

So it's represent 850000.

And I got to go back to that hilltop west

side area that just because of a stroke of a pen I no longer was representing.

Right. And so that was really appealing and

enjoyed the opportunity to be in a majority tackle some of the city

challenges, bring kind of some of the things that I value in public service.

So accessibility, giving people my cell phone number, putting my email out there

and working at the local level in that regard.

But I was approached about what? About the county.

You can now represent one point four million people and that was appealing.

And having been in the legislative branch of both the state House and council for

eight years, opportunity to be a county executive position was appealing my own

team, not having to kind of horse trade on votes, follow my vision and agenda.

And so I've been very fortunate.

We're almost coming to our two year

anniversary on March 11th of serving as the county auditor.

You know, Mike, we have so many different

ways that we've like passed either passed in the night, ships

passing in the night or or hit on on topics.

And whenever anybody talks to me about networking, it's real easy to network in

Columbus because we all have surrounded each other.

So you had the advantage of having a wonderful mentor in your dad

who I placed interns with and one of my previous lifetimes.

You worked with Judge Bruner?

I worked with Judge Bruner and placing

interns with her now when she was in Franklin County Court doing the the

special docket program and then City Council, our age friendly Columbus project

that you spearheaded for us on city council, which was phenomenal.

So and now I have a whole new respect for

your abilities with all of this stuff that you're doing.

I mean, for being the 15th, hopefully eventually the 14th largest city.

You're absolutely right.

In terms of the networking, my chief of staff and the other office, I

actually interned for her when I was in law school.

Wow. At the Ohio Supreme Court.

And so those networks, that connection and

the accessibility, I mean, that's what I really challenge when I'm talking to young

people is if you have an idea of what you want to do or meet someone, just reach out

to him and both our city's values, our communities, values and all likelihood

they're going to be accessible because they had someone do that for them.

Exactly. Yeah, we're really good.

And it's it's not one side of the aisle or the other.

We're all really good about helping each other in Columbus.

And so that's great. So wonderful.

You know, looking at the auditors website

for real estate information, let's just get back to your job.

We all want to know what our neighbors paid for their homes.

So funny because I saw a listing of a neighbor just down the street.

Their home sold, you know, in the dispatch list, the pricing.

And I look at that number going, wow, OK.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with what

you're paying, but the sale prices, you know, it's like, wow, OK.

But, you know, your office provides information on the value of the home and

the tax level we pay, including a three year reevaluation of property values.

The reevaluations likely caused confusion.

I know they do for me and concern my homeowners.

However, your office has created services

for property owners to better understand the process and how to appeal the results.

Let's talk about that and mean can you

provide some information on property revaluations,

how you're making this complicated process a bit more transparent and equitable?

Absolutely. So the property assessment function of the

Otter's office is the one that's most well known.

We have a statutory obligation under Ohio law every six years to do a mass

reappraisal where we go out and view each parcel in a three year increment.

Of those six year cycles, we do a

triennial update and it's not the physical review.

It's looking at real estate trends and values in those communities.

And so in 2020, that's what the.

Franklin County office conducted, we had requested a one year delay because

we weren't sure the impact of the pandemic.

That request was denied,

didn't exist in the statute as well as if

you were looking at the sales, they continue to be very active.

And so we performed our function.

But the data and the try or just generally

presented on the website has an immense impact.

It impacts people's pocketbooks.

It impacts their communities

the way Ohio structures our school, funding those property taxes that are

built off the values, plus your taxing district all trickle down.

And so it's an important role, but it's

one the property owner has a seat at the table and should be

participating as actively as they want or not.

And when I say as active as they want or not, when we did the training process,

there is an opportunity for an informal review.

So if you felt the value was too high or

too low to come in and educate our appraisers, and then we would take the

information that was given and we don't go inside any homes.

So if ceilings are dipping or kitchen hasn't been updated since the 50s,

we won't know that unless the property owner shares it.

And so the website doesn't always reflect

that information unless it's been provided after the outcry.

If people still aren't satisfied or didn't

think it was time to participate and then they go through the border revision and

the border revisions is a statutory entity made up of an auditor, treasurer in the

board of county, commissioner, representative.

And again, it's a forum with a little more

wiggle room to present why you feel the value is incorrect.

By the time people are at the boards, it's

typically they want their value to go down.

I would just say you have the reverse. That's interesting.

But I could see a scenario likely going to be selling in the next year.

You want the highest value listed on the website.

For whatever reason, the realtors are still going to come tell you this is what

should be exact at this time, but kind of fooling yourself.

Absolutely. People.

Oh, we're going to be selling.

Can we get it higher? Tell us why.

Yeah, and we'll conduct that.

But with through the buyer again, it's that opportunity for that property owner

to provide any information they feel is important.

And it, again, is a little more broader than the informal tri review where it is

looking really at sales and so encourage as much participation

as a property owner wants. But the challenges, how many people know about it?

Are they intimidated by it? And because of the pandemic, what changes have we made?

And so we have moved it all virtual.

We've added a e-filing for the first time

so you can complete the entire process just through your computer.

It'll make sure all the documents are filled out correctly.

And if there is anything incorrect, you'll

hear from the office so we can make sure we're capturing it and at the same time

wanting to make sure our entire community is participating.

What was a nuance thing that was counterintuitive for me was

some of our opportunity neighborhoods see some of the larger value increases because

it's a lot easier to flip a home that was 80000 to get it to 160000 than it is to

flip a one point three million dollar home.

You're not flipping a one point three and you're not going to see that.

That return on investment at that percentage, right?

And so we really want to encourage

homeowners that are in those situations to participate.

So we've created a homebuyer assistance program, a free

opportunity for low to moderate income property owners in Franklin County

to work with Legal Aid Society representative, both on their filing.

So what will make a strong filing and then if they continue to qualify, having

representation at the different board of revision programs.

So trying to make it as accessible and not both explaining the process, but also

people going and taking advantage of the process, you know.

Right.

You know, I had an ulterior motive to have him here today because I don't live in

Franklin County and I'm currently battling with my county auditor

who managed over a six year period of time to only increase the value of my house,

1000 dollars and the next year increased it by 30000.

So I'm like, this makes no sense to me.

Let's be transparent.

And oh, my gosh, did I get a reaction?

So appraisal, as I've seen, is a little bit of art and a little bit of science.

Yes. And then what also was very Eye-Opening

was the role that the Department of Taxation at the state level plays so well.

We go through our entire training process.

It ultimately gets approved at the state, really.

So every county except Franklin, we were asked to make changes to some of

their evaluations in the last cycle that participated.

And in some cases, one county is suing and saying we don't agree.

Now, the hammer for the state is they can

withhold about 50 percent of the local government funding.

So that would be devastating in those communities if it doesn't come through.

But I mean, a lot of back and forth.

We understood we were hot real estate market, we understood we were leading not

only the state of Ohio, but in some portions of the country.

And so we knew it was

a little sticker shock, but understood where it was coming from.

And we continue to

work and improve both the data we're collecting and the explanation.

Right. But really trying to get those appraisers

to explain why did we make that determination?

And before it was, well, it's a hot real

estate market is like we got to do better than that.

Yeah, yeah. Zack really got to dig into it.

And so the documentation was something that our third party

appraiser wasn't quite used to, but we got there.

Yes.

Well, yes, because we've been a hot market for a long time.

So that was my you know, I'm like, well, we were hot market five years ago.

Why is it now?

You know, so it's it's been an interesting process.

But so this kind of gets to my next question, too, is you can't control the

market, but you can help stabilize it helps strengthen it.

Absolutely.

In terms of representing what the sales are and what the right balance is.

So the appraised value, again, is one piece of then the taxing district, which

gets us to the property taxes, which people are really concerned about.

And so we are looking at the trends.

If things need to be held flat or if there aren't the investments that are reflected

in other areas, the office can have a say and in a.

Put their thumb a little bit in that

direction, we really broke down to make sure we were doing a better job of

creating what we refer to as training or neighborhoods.

So appraising the right sections, a lot of

the feedback we heard coming into the new administration where I was being compared

to properties that were out of bounds and that's where I was seeing value increases.

And so we added about 200 new appraised neighborhoods.

So really focused on a micro level to

capture the right features, land grade school district.

And there's a whole science behind that of the appraisal.

Sure.

OK, so how many can I ask how many are you now up to in terms of this? About 425.

So you almost doubled it? We did.

Well, that's phenomenal because that's

exactly what I'm seeing in my in my area, you know, to to to take a condominium

association and compare it to the McMansion down the road.

Make no sense. Right.

And that's what we were experiencing.

Ali's up Arlington as the example.

We got a lot of feedback from our Burlington folks that depending on what

street you're on, there is a big difference in the real estate value.

And so they were all being lumped together.

We really took pen to paper and we're able

to use investments in technology to create better boundaries and reflect.

And part of that justification, when people say, well, why did my value go up?

We said this is the train, the whole neighborhood in the sales we looked at

encourage them if there's other sales or if they think there's other properties

that are better to submit that to us as well.

Right, great.

Well, our community is reeling from

inequities and division throughout all the sectors.

One very important issue that created

incredible discrimination in many communities.

What was that? Historic redlining?

Can you give us some of the history on this practice and how your office can

support communities and ensure it does not continue to occur?

So one of the things when we came into the

office, we were committed to doing a performance audit at the mass appraisal

and whether or not some of the systematic redlining or changes of our community have

impacted values, we can see based on zip code pretty clearly that

wealth within those communities aren't being gained at the same rate.

At the same time,

some properties are the exact same

buildings are being valued drastically different.

And the explanation?

Well, it's just real estate.

It's location, location, location.

Well, is it?

And so we've partner with the Kirwan

Institute at Ohio State to really dove into the role redlining in our community

has played in setting valuations and then how it's kind of built off of that.

So a lot of other colleagues have challenged, well, you know, the numbers of

the numbers and that's all we're looking at, that redlining doesn't play a role.

But when you kind of see where it was implemented, it absolutely has.

And so we continue to work with that lens and mind as we do our evaluations, trying

to make it equal the catch and what we don't want to see in some communities.

Detroit, for example, when they got caught up, it shot up.

And some of those opportunity

neighborhoods, the values and we don't want to then all of a sudden be creating a

weird dichotomy of, you know, you were wronged.

We're trying to right it.

But now you're being asked to pay property taxes.

That is so attaway way. Right.

And so trying to balance those interests out.

In Michigan, though, there's a cap on how much your property taxes can go up.

We don't have that in Ohio. Yes.

So something like that would be helpful. Right.

But we are working very hard to make sure it's equitable and a fair process,

recognizing and being really to tell that redlining story.

Kerwin has done a fantastic job.

We've got a couple of YouTube videos on

the auditors website that walks through very

systematically of kind of how this has occurred over time and

where that impact is played and and Preysing property values.

Well, I grew up in London.

My parents grew up in Miloje.

I mean, you want to talk about redlining.

Those neighborhoods were just decimated.

I remember Seventy-one being built right next to my aunt's house.

You want to talk about loss of value of a

house with a with freeway going in next door?

Yeah.

Just look at the difference between Clintonville and Linden.

Exactly.

The highway went through the middle of it and that just drastically impacted.

Absolutely. The values.

Yes.

Location, location, location is a great real estate term.

But for our community and again, the role that housing can play in helping build

family wealth and personal wealth is something

personally think should continue to be shared.

It's a good, equitable way and we want to see those investments

continue to grow and not be because of the stroke.

PAPEN or systematic racism role, and some of what had occurred in the past

continuing well, and it's and it's not just the value of a property per say, but

it's a person's ability to get a loan to buy that that I mean, as a single female,

I literally had to threaten the guy to, like, approve my loan.

There is no reason in the world that I can't be approved for a loan.

But as a single female, I was being discriminated against.

Yeah.

And we are looking at other ways in which we can improve within our community.

The challenge of someone that wants to maybe buy a parcel that's 120000 dollars.

We want to get more homeowners than renters in our community.

Right. And so how we can do that?

And it's getting that bank loan.

That's one of the biggest

challenges just to get in that first wave

of either starter home or the stable place within a school district or looking for.

Right. Right.

So you had mentioned just a bit ago about state policies.

Yes. We would love to have in case any of those

legislators are listening, we'd like to have a cap.

Your office released policy priorities for 2020, but I was fascinated.

Had that been something that the auditors

office had done in the past or is this something that you brought in?

I don't think they've been as blatant.

I know previous administrations have worked either through the association or

through their own personal policy preferences.

But some of the staff we brought in my legislative background knowing these are

areas that need to be improved and trying to be ahead of it and help lead

to get not only the county delegation, but ultimately good laws passed was a go.

Right. And it's not just a limit on for taxes for

seniors, but you're looking at the veterans of the disabled who could

as you said, they can't suddenly take this huge leap on on taxes.

Some of the other things were, you know, local control on

approval of large tax incentives, the Tax Incentive Review Council.

Can you give us a little bit of an overview of where you're trying to go?

Yeah, so now we're really into that, the

Web site and all the many, many things that we do.

So I'll start with the TURC, the county auditor serve as the statutory

chair of the Tax Incentive Review Commission.

So every jurisdiction in our community

that gives out a tax abatement or a tiff, so.

We then review it, but all we do is look

at it and say, OK, it's meeting the rules or not and then make a recommendation to

their local body, we would like to evolve that to a Turk

with teeth so we are better able to a capture equal information.

Last year we had 21 different Turk

meetings, 17 were pretty consistent in the information,

and then five, they just said, well, we're meeting the statutory

standard, but we're not going to really help with additional information.

And in some cases, the information isn't good.

We as a Turk would probably suggest

drastic changes to those economic incentives because those are deferring

taxes that other property owners then have to help make up the difference.

And so a Turk with teeth is a good goal

on the property piece, along with property

values or role with helping set the tax rate.

The state does have a homestead exemption,

a disability exemption that has not been, I think, as realized as

was originally intended when the governor made some changes.

And this was Governor Kasich adding a economic component along with an age

component to qualify for the homestead exemption.

It wasn't tied to inflation.

So the vast majority of applicants that

qualify are ones that were grandfathered in before that changed.

The program is not growing now.

The state backfills that money.

And so I think it was a budget decision

when we were down to a rainy day budget of 70 cents.

But we're we're much better fiscal position now.

And as a Otar growing population of

Ohioans, Homestead needs to be improved and be a little more of an access, because

particularly in Franklin County, we are very generous community when

entities go to the ballot.

And we just approved a bond issue for Columbus State, that is an additional

property tax component or a piece of your property tax.

And so that is going to impact

particularly older residents ability to continue to stay in their home.

And the worst thing we hear people feeling or being property tax out of the place

that they have put so much into the overtime decades and generations.

Right. And a lot of times folks who are voting

don't remember that they're voting for a tax that they don't have to pay,

that it's property owners paying and they may not be a property owner.

So it's. Yeah, I mean, so with covid in particular,

I don't think a lot of people thought about the Oklahoma State bond issue

with the primary got played, gets passed, but now it's showing up on people's

property tax bill and it's not always substantial.

But if you're on a fixed income, any dollar has an impact.

Right? At the same time, we're in a lot of

questions of, you know, the majority of my property taxes go to paying for schools.

Schools aren't meeting in person.

What am I paying for?

And so that continue

consideration of what we're willing to support and then how it plays itself out,

then tied to the value all comes to a head every day.

And the auditor saw that. Yes.

OK, now your office probably has the

biggest exposure point of anybody, the county, because you're on

every gas pump, you're on every deli weighing machine.

Do you go to each one of those gas pumps and put that little sticker on there? I do

not go personally, but the staff in the office do so.

Yeah, the weights and measures function. Right.

But talk a little bit about that in regards to how to

define a gallon as a gallon and what goes through that process.

Our pound is a pound. One of the things we think a lot of pride

in is our consumer protection division and weights and measures is a key

component of that has been fascinating to watch the team in action.

When they do a gallon a gallon, they pump.

They've got a drug that's been calibrated to the state standards.

There's a ceiling process to even our drug.

But the team does a great job.

They joke I can't get it to stop at the right point.

So they've got to do the job all over again.

But then on the scale, it's just cost us

one hundred dollars, guys, to get the gallon right on the scales.

It is truly putting in a ten pound weight

and making sure the skill says ten pounds, but it's shocking.

Over time they wear down, they need to be recalibrated.

But it's been a great opportunity to work with local businesses.

Mom and pop shops are very welcoming and then giving that assurance to

people that purchase or engage that, yes,

this is meeting the standards and you don't have the heavy thumb.

But you're right.

But yes, the stickers show up a lot. Yeah.

What is unique, though, you'll be able to

tell if you're in Franklin County or the city of Columbus City.

Columbus has its own weights and measures team.

And so occasionally you will find city Columbus stickers.

Christine, I would never have.

So the history of that.

The city charges to do their inspections, of course, and so

it was meant to be a revenue generator at

some level, it hasn't quite equated to that.

But over time, they've really been proud of their division as well.

But that's how you know where you are,

particularly around the Grandview Heights, fifth by northwest.

Right. Right.

A City of Columbus sticker. You're actually in the city of Columbus.

Not not in Grandview, right?

Oh, my gosh.

Goodness gracious.

So but in terms of all that work that

you've done, it's been very, very successful.

You've had almost no complaints.

We have a great team.

Complaints do come up and they respond quickly.

And so appreciate both their

commitment to that consumer protection, but they have a lot of fun with it.

I mean,

a great story.

So we are monthly highlighting local business and we call that our true

transaction, a word we found ourselves last week in Urban

Crest at the Tropical Knutsen Candy Factory.

It was amazing and I never knew it was down.

There is a very cool place.

It is and they are.

And I want to say Walgreens

across the country, 150 employees running three shifts, six days a week.

Do they have like a gift shop they do next Christmas? They do.

Yes. I remember them being in it.

I think a different location of one time when I found them.

They think they've moved so, so cool.

I think when it started, she the president mentioned they were in Grandview at one

Worthington event where they went around Bush, Bullmann area, that sort of thing.

You know, this giant factory.

But you don't you wouldn't know.

And I've been to Urban Crest a lot of times down and Grove City.

Who knew?

But the weights and measures team helps us identify those good partners at school.

And so got to leave with a lot of chocolate pretzels.

No, no, no downfall of that.

A lot of people in the office, one of

those interns every day, that that's that's a job to have.

Goodness. Yeah.

Well, so when I was doing this deep dove

into your website and continually surprised at everything that

was involved, I don't know why I was surprised.

You're the auditor.

Why was I surprised that you have to look over the money for Franklin County?

I don't know. But that, you know, do the commissioners call you

and say, Mike, is there any money, yes or no?

So I'm very popular in that my name is on all the paychecks.

Oh, and so at that fiscal officer

responsibility, that was one of the two things.

When I came into office, another auditor said, you can't screw up.

Payroll always has to get out and get out on time.

Oh, yeah.

And not that we've had close calls, but occasionally technological systems

malfunction and then we are making sure we meet the standard.

Oh yes.

But work well with the commissioners.

They also have their own Department of office and management.

And so we work closely with them.

We produce

the statutory requirement documents.

So the CAFO and PAFA

and they play a role in making sure that we have sound fiscal standing,

particularly when than the county or the treasurer go out for some bonding issues.

So it's an interesting system between the Treasurer Office Management Budget and the

Audit Office, but we all work really well together to the credit of the team on the

fiscal side, they continue to receive recognition from the state auditor and

really do a wonderful job with their diligence and standards of not only the

auditors office, but working with other county agencies as well.

Great. OK, well, another piece is the catch all

bucket is that the dogs and you know, our home is a dog haven.

I mean, I'm at your doorstep every year with the dog license for our dog, Miles.

So why does the auditor deal with licenses

for dogs, kennels, breeders, vendors, cigarets, how that got jumped in their

junkyards? And also why just dogs and not cats and exotic animals?

Again, I am convinced the auditors weren't in the room.

I thinkso.

It's a statutory requirement.

If the General Assembly came and said, we

need a license, cats or gerbils, we would do it.

You would.

No one has ever really explained the history.

There is a public health component of why they wanted dogs licensed.

Why didn't fall through public health at the time.

Unclear. But was that a rabies issue?

It used to be huge.

So in Franklin County, we require a rabies tag.

We're the only county that also requires that.

But just generally why they went through

and design licensing was, I think, the rabies.

But some it was up to the discretion of each county if

they wanted to add that additional rabies requirement.

But it is a very important role, one that's very popular.

The funding of the dog license goes to the animal shelter.

And so they're great partners as well.

But it's a quirk in that department, as

you also mentioned, a cigaret licenses and business licenses when they arise as well.

And.

So it's just kind of the licensing function that I inherited, I assume it

started with more of the business licensing.

And they said, well, they're already licensing one thing and the dogs have the

processes that you already were kind of taking care of.

They understand that process. Give it to them.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

Well, and it was done it pre technology, needless to say.

So yeah. It if you if you've got the name of every

person in the county to start with, that's a place to start.

Yeah.

And they to your point on the technology, they just got rid of the Stamper so they

would take each dog tag, roll a number and pound it out.

We don't have to do that anymore.

But that is something that changed in the last three years.

And other counties, they're still doing it that way as well.

And so that's what's fun about the job, is just the depth and breadth.

We absolutely touch everyone's lives in

some shape or form every day across the county.

And so take a lot of pride with the dog licenses were not at the numbers we want.

We're only about 30 percent of dog owners are getting licensed.

And Franklin County really. Oh, my.

Yeah, lack of awareness.

People don't realize they need to do it until the dog's missing.

And then the first question is, what was your dog's license?

And then you find out pretty fast.

The cost is prohibitive for some folks.

And the way the statute is written, it's

one of our priorities this year of trying to get a little more flexibility.

We've got situations where people want to donate additional fees to help buy other

low income licenses, and it's not clear how we can do that.

I've also had very frustrating situations where someone took the time, got license.

Unfortunately, the dog passed away two weeks later.

So now we just have a license that's not being maximized.

So could we allow them to wait till they get another

dog and carry it forward or could they give that license over?

Just

the shelter has been very open to ideas

and now it's got to get the General Assembly on board.

Right?

I mean, that's kind of stopped me from doing the multiple year thinking, OK, you

never know when your dog's going to pass away insights onto a year to year.

But I hadn't thought about that. You know, maybe

I guess it said that for us at that price point that it's like, OK, if he were to

pass away a couple of months within the license, it's not a big deal.

But I understand the multiple dogs.

It can be costly if they're not neutered or spayed.

That's an increase in price of that of the

tag as well as, you know, that, you know, gifting it.

That's a really good idea. I like that, essentially.

Am I on the wrong track here? Did I see

something where you could buy a license for the life of the dog?

So about five years ago, the General

Assembly, in their infinite wisdom, created a annual.

So one year, a three year or a lifetime license.

Okay. All right.

The price points the same other than the lifetimes, a twelve year range.

So annual is the same price as twelve.

If you have the the canine for twelve years, the only difference is if you get a

three or a lifetime, you won't get as much mail for me because we won't send the

annual reminders over and over again to get it there.

There's a reason to it's kind of like voting.

The earlier you vote, the less campaign

stuff you're going to get closer to Election Day.

Harry Truman. Harry Truman.

Okay, so let let's step back a second on taxes again.

And we sort of touched on this just a little bit.

But, you know, people get really upset

when they hear abatements that folks have not half don't have to pay for their

company to come in and buy a building and hire a bunch of people because they're

going to bring in other taxes, other income taxes.

So you don't you really have to react to that.

Correct.

Your office has nothing to do with it in terms of the decision making.

You have to react and watch over it.

Are there some things that you're thinking about that could strengthen abatements?

So they're not just they don't aren't seen just as a gift to companies.

So this goes back to that turc duty and responsibility.

And you're right, we react.

So a municipality will say New Albany wants to attract a Facebook data center.

They decide this is the program, these are the abatements.

This is what's going to be approved to get them here.

And they come and then we take the time and review it.

What we've heard a lot is the need to get more of that information available.

Previous administrations did do a

essentially an economic impact of statements.

The conclusion was it was actually saving at the end of the day, taxpayer dollars.

But we want to have that review done annually.

We're also trying to create a

customer friendly tool so anyone can go in and her

first learn about it, but then also enter

the data and make their own conclusions of is this a benefit or not?

And so we've worked with some regional

economists on creating that tool, but they're complicated.

And again, it goes back to making sure we've got the correct information through

the TURC so that we can present it and make it available.

So while we will never be the ones driving

that municipality's decision that is up to their elected office holders,

because we get so many questions and the desire to have that data in a way that is

equitable and digestible, that's really what we continue to work on.

And unfortunately, what you see in the paper is when it falls through, when a

company gets an abatement and then they close down and they didn't hit or or they

only hit 100 people and not 150 they promised or whatever.

You know, and there are lots of reasons

that could be good reasons that they didn't quite make.

They're part of the abatement.

But having more information could

even if they didn't hit 150, if they hit 100 and it brought in a lot more payroll

income than property income, then, you know, why not?

Yeah. And the Turks, the place the kind of have

those reviews in 21 meetings last year, I think, to members of the public came.

So there's somewhat of a lack of awareness

of a Turk and then there's lack of awareness just of these projects and the

annual review that occurs in all the different jurisdictions.

And last year, you could have zoomed in to

all the meetings, couldn't have been any easier.

And had I, for as much concern and understandably for tax

abatements across our community, not seeing the public being more engaged in

those meetings has been a little bit of a surprise.

But. Well, so let's let's go with that.

The public involvement.

How does one prepare to be a party?

OK, we can zoom in.

Is is the meeting understandable?

A, how do you prepare for a meeting to

know to to get the information you want out of it?

Right. And that's one of our challenges.

We need to get that information out there sooner.

When we inherited was a system of some of

the jurisdictions were just providing the information the day of the meeting and

we're asking them to give it to us two weeks ahead.

We post it as part of the public.

Notice where we have it still not required.

We do have a lot of great partners, but some municipalities say it's not required.

So we're not going to provide it

until you until you need it or we're going to do it to the to the law.

But to that point, we're hoping with the website and information we're going to be

putting out later this year, just that awareness.

So, OK, that's that project.

Let's keep track and watch a little bit more.

I think that will help have people more

prepared to understand what's going on and see if they're meeting

what that commitment was when it was originally granted.

OK, how how do people find out about those the TURC meetings?

We publicly notice them.

We don't do it as part of our newsletter,

although I think people will see this year a greater push of Turks are coming up.

This is what they are.

And then we last year, we put out our

first annual Turk report that will be continued along with the tool.

So I think part of our commitment and our less than two years that we've been there

is trying to draw bigger awareness and recognition that these are occurring.

I guess because I'm if I was sitting in New Albany and they

they were talking abatement, I would be thinking of how do I find information from

New Albany? It wouldn't have dawned on me to have gone to your office

information to find out when it was going to be under discussion.

So, yeah, absolutely.

An area where the otter's office can do more and better.

Well, you know, I don't I'm not saying that.

I just think I am, you know, but

I noticed with that. Right?

Yeah. Really, it's just such a confusing yes.

And multi-level multi touch point issue that

Brett and I were talking about this.

You know, how do you find places to send the podcast information?

It's just I mean, the Internet makes it crazy.

Yeah. Yeah.

And see, your point is that someone's on notice.

We hired a new member for the office focused solely on Turk and tax incentives.

So Lane is well aware of what the standard

and duty sorry, Lane, you know, lanes, lanes, a rockstar.

You think you're very lucky to have them.

Well, and it's yeah.

That I mean, that's I have since the last set of elections

that we've gone through, have said people need to educate themselves.

We had a great podcast about that.

If you don't educate yourself on how your

government works, don't sit there and say it's not working.

Yeah.

And one thing the office also does, we put out a tax calculator.

We send out something that we call the value of your vote and postcard notice.

So if there's going to be a bond or levy

issue, that is going to impact your property taxes.

Right. We proactively send that out.

We've added more because of my background in elections, notification of when the

election is, any other information that may be helpful.

Participation in that continues to be varied as well, though.

But that's where then.

Five months later, people are upset about their property tax bill.

Exactly.

They had a direct opportunity to participate or

ask questions then that were going to impact that property tax bill.

I remember several years ago I contacted somebody at my county's board of

elections and said, why isn't the date of the election on your website?

You have to put down the date of the election in an

application for an absentee ballot.

But you can't find the date of the election and you're afraid to guess.

And so it's kind of interesting.

So now it is up there, thank goodness. Yes.

Well, this may continue on with what we just talked about.

You know, we noticed that your community

outreach program provides residents with some great information on the issues of

the day or items to be aware of, such as fraudulent check scams.

Recently, your office reported, was returning funds to local cities and school

districts here in Franklin County, close to three point five dollars million.

Was that savings your office created and how?

What's the story? So in the creation of Ohio law and

auditor's office, maybe this is why we're willing to take on all these duties.

A portion of bonds or levies comes directly to our office.

And so depending on the office's

philosophy or approach, you can not returned that money or you can.

I think those are the school districts dollars.

Those are the library's dollars.

So while we will perform the functions we

need to, it's more important for them to get that return.

And so the commitment is we do it annually.

The audit previous administrations have

done it every four years, likely an election year.

But we are trying to make that commitment.

And so.

Yes, we are very sensitive to being good stewards of taxpayer dollars, making sure

we are creating savings where we can, and we've seen that.

But it's also just the annual commitment

to make sure that this money gets returned as quickly as possible.

So where would it have lived if it didn't go back?

We we've got a line item and the county

level and it just kind of accrues, accrues, accrues.

Wow.

And so, yeah, it's it's an interesting quirk for auditors offices.

Not every county is in as good a position as well.

And so other auditors aren't able to do that.

It really is a county by county decision and opportunity.

What's that's one of which kind of brings up another

piece of the puzzle that may not be in your lap.

So although you watch over the money from

the county, you're not investing the money of the county.

No, that is the county treasurer. Yeah.

So it didn't that just hit me when you were talking about bonds.

Well, that's one thing you don't have to do.

There you go. But we work closely with them.

That's in their bailiwick, though, right?

It's a good partnership.

But we had just talked to a local bank

yesterday, kind of talking about the quiet period they're in.

They're looking in the Treasurer's office to maybe reassign the contract.

And so just trying to learn as much as

they can of what's going on and what we do in that process.

So it's it's it's interesting.

Well, wisdom, yeah, when when the market

goes up, they probably are, you know, everybody's favorite treasurer, but boy,

when the market goes down, I want to be in their spot.

So we talked about tech a little bit.

Your office has lots of tech going on.

And again, another surprise.

You are you you have to deal with a lot of the data and information for the county.

So another one of those, I'm not sure

where the auditor was when the General Assembly created it.

I serve as the statutory chair of the data center.

So some counties have local data centers is kind of.

For yester years

when they were trying to figure out what is this technology and how we're going to

build it, so it's myself, a representative from the court, the clerk of court, Mary

Ellen O'Shannassy, the treasurer of the Board of Elections,

the recorder's office and board of

commissioners to the board's pretty substantial.

But the auditor, when things are going

bad, is the one that takes all the heat for it.

So I get to be the chair, but it's a great opportunity.

Aline's really well with my passions of

trying to make technology improve government services.

We have a wonderful CFO and he really has done a great job of

aligning not only our mission to bring Franklin County into the 21st century, but

working with different agencies and what their needs are

absolutely doing a lot of cost savings

because of that approach, but we still have a long way to go.

Well, given the responsibilities you have on the other kinds of things,

having the database to your it is probably to your advantage as opposed to being

dealing with another office, doing that job.

I hope we I would say we get treated a

little bit the same as all the other offices.

And where we do have priorities, depending

on what the mission of the agency is, we may have to fall back a little bit.

But yes, I do get to have the CFO cell phone number in case something comes up.

But we have a great relationship.

He came in as part of our administration

and so has brought wonderful stability, has a great team.

And again, I think really positioning well, the data center, not only for a

county, but in partnering with the city of Columbus on some initiatives.

And so it's going to be things like body cameras for the sheriff's office that

arose this summer that they weren't required.

County commissioners made that investment now will fall into a data area.

And so the data board will be part of that discussion.

And so, yes, auditor functions are important, but so are supporting and

making sure we're aligning everyone across the county.

The same on the data center piece.

Great.

So unclaimed funds, who doesn't look through that list of names?

I just if your name might pop on it in such a year.

So let's talk about that.

How does that what is this?

And, you know, there's some really great

success stories, I guess you could say that they didn't realize that.

Sadly, I don't have any really great get rich stories here.

But it is.

And these are property owners, taxpayers that engage with the county and different

functions, owed money and for whatever reason did not claim it.

And so we are statutorily required to put out the list.

We also put out a delinquent tax list, not as popular.

I don't look it that way,

but that's really just making sure that we

aren't claiming money that really isn't ours as a government entity.

Is there a timetable on that, that once

you realized there's unclaimed funds, is there a clock that starts?

Not really. Really is a process.

They always get it back. Oh, really?

Okay. Wow.

I've got to fill out some forms now, of course, but.

Well now but the list, though, if I remember correctly,

I'm not I mean, there's there's only one unclaimed funds for each county.

Correct. So when I was the director of the agency,

I had to fill out a form saying we don't have any unclaimed funds.

So even if we didn't have any, we still had to report it as a.

So, for instance, if somebody had paid for a program and and didn't get I

didn't get the money back when they

didn't, you know, come to the program, I would it could have been unclaimed funds.

We didn't charge for anything.

So we didn't have any unclaimed funds.

So, yeah, they just kind of trickle out there.

That's interesting. I yeah.

And I do watch that. Yes.

But I'm glad to hear you also aren't worried about delinquent tax loss.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I know that one scares me more than I claim fun.

Yeah. No, we do not want to go there.

So, you know, Mike, we we have we I did

not want to make this a confusing conversation, but it was kind

of hard to sort of get through all of the different pieces of the auditors office.

So, you know, sort of in retrospect, what

is there any message that you want to make sure that folks here.

Yeah, the commitment that started day one that I learned in my household of giving

out that phone number, we're here to serve the public.

And so if there's any questions, concerns on any function, not only the auditors,

but others across the county, we want to be accessible.

And so encourage anyone listening or going to the website, feel free to email me.

Understands, yanno. Franklin County, Ohio, dot gov.

Feel free to call my cell anytime.

Six one four two in 1992 to four.

I don't give myselfto the.

So it scares the staff to death bed

because they know if they're not happy, he's probably going to get a call.

The cell phone, it's a burner phone.

But that that we're here to provide the services.

And given those different experiences that I shared in the bio of being at the state

level and at the city level, we have good partners and are able to help get you

maybe through some of the malaise that people have experienced before.

Right. And so even if it doesn't fall or feels

mundane about, you know, my dog's rabies situation, let us know.

We've heard it all for the most part

and look forward to anything new that we haven't heard before.

Well, and if the listener is not in Franklin County, this information is

likely pretty close to what everybody is doing.

And in our show notes, I've got information on how to check on other

counties in the state, the state auditor's office and information there.

So just again, you know, if you've got a question, educate yourself.

And that may that process may be the first

step is calling your office and we look forward to it.

Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us today.