Hello, and welcome to Home to Her, the podcast that's dedicated to reclaiming the lost and stolen wisdom of the sacred feminine. I'm your host, Liz Kelley, and on each episode, we explore her stories and myths, her spiritual principles, and most importantly, what this wisdom has to offer us right now. Thanks for being here. Let's get started. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Hey, everybody. And welcome to the show. This is Liz joining you as usual from central Virginia and the unceded lands of the Monacan nation. And I am so glad that you are here with me again today. And as always, if you want to know whose native lands you are residing on, please check out the map at native land. ca. It's a map of the entire world pretty much. And it will tell you. Who was there before you. So really good information for you to have and I'll put that in the show notes so that you've got it. And if you are interested in learning more about The sacred feminine there's so many ways that you can do that There have been so many guests that have been on this show in the last five years Who've given wonderful perspectives on that if you want to learn from me in other ways, too You can check out home to her. com. You will definitely find all of the old podcast episodes there you will find some articles and things that I've written and You can find out more information about my book there, Home to Her, Walking the Transformative Path of the Sacred Feminine, which is published by WomanCraft Publishing. It's available wherever you buy your books, and it's also available on Audible, so if you like to listen to me, you can listen to me read to you the greatest story that maybe you've never been told, which is hers. And yeah, follow me on social if you want to keep up. I've been a little sporadic lately, but it's a home to her at Facebook and Instagram. And then if you want to give me any feedback, ideas, suggestions, anything that's coming up for you, social is also a really, really good way to do that. And I love to hear from you. I love to hear what is present for you from these episodes and things that get sparked and ideas that you have. So please always feel free to reach out. And with that, let's get on with the show. So I am so honored to call my guest today my friend, and also just a wonderful, wonderful inspiration to me. We first had the opportunity to meet in person at the parliament of the world's religions in Chicago back in August of 2023. Although I had heard of her, she was in my circle. You know, I knew, I knew about her. She was in my sphere for years before we connected. But she was stewarding the Women's Village there. I'll say more about that in a second. And I was just so moved by her passion and her presence and all the ways that she's been showing up in the world so powerfully. Over the last couple of decades. And yeah, I've kind of been in that space of awe ever since so I feel like this conversation is long overdue. I'm so excited. We're having it and I can't wait for you to hear from her. So let me go ahead and tell you about her. Sande Hart is a mother, grandmother, and the founder of the global woman's village. Women's organization formerly known as Sarah stood, which stands for the spiritual and religious alliance for hope, which is now in its 23rd year. She is the author of the liminal odyssey, the alchemical power of the spaces in between a, I can't think of a more sacred feminine inspired title than that. Also a Nautilus book award winner, and she is actively engaged in leadership in the peace, compassion, community building and women's re and empowerment sectors. Thank you Her most recent work is in service to the role of women in this evolutionary impulse we are in during these transitional times. CND served on the Women's Task Force for the Parliament of the World's Religions and developed and produced the first ever Women's Village at the 2023 International Conference. She founded and served as director for the international organization, the charter for compassion's women and girls sector as creator and director of the ninth sector of the international organization focused on compassion. And she's also the founder of compassionate California, which recently became established into law by the governor's office as the first compassionate state in the world. And Sande, I forgot to ask you before we hopped on where you're joining us from, but I believe you're joining us from your home in Santa Barbara, California. Do I have that right?

I'm actually on the the unceded territory of the Louisiana Band of Mission Indians in Southern California, which is a San Diego area.

Excellent. Thank you so much for being here. Like I said, this conversation is long overdue and I'm so excited. We're having it.

I am too. Thank you so much for having me Liz. And aren't we lucky that we're on one another? Aren't we lucky that we can meet one another at this great Sort of place. And I just love, I love your program. Thank you for having me.

Yeah. Oh, it's my honor. It's totally my honor. I, yes, I was telling Sande before we hopped on, like, I think this is going to be one of those conversations where the challenge will be like, oh, we've got so much to talk about. There's no way we're going to fit it all in, but we're just going to flow and see where it goes. But you know, if you guys have been listening for a while, you know, this, I always love to start with my guests and hearing about their spiritual background and those experiences that were formative and that. Guided them perhaps in supportive ways, but also the ones that maybe, you know, We're, we're nurturing in unsupportive ways, which then pointed them where they needed to go. So Sande, if that's okay with you, I would love to start there.

Oh, and I love that you do this because that's my favorite place to meet people at the root of who they are and how they show up in the world. And what informs them and their, their, their religion or their spirituality. So thank you for posing this question. So my roots I was born into an already. established family in the seaside town in Southern California, which was the occupied territory of the Tongva in a little town called Palos Verdes. I was one of four Jewish kids in my entire elementary school and not much more in my middle school. So I was always, I always felt like I was the other. I never felt like I fit in. Or for that matter, I never felt that I was really made for this world. Yet I had this love affair with the ocean who I lovingly referred to as grandmother. So while I didn't know it, I was literally. Or at the time I should say I was literally being drenched in her spirituality. I was gifted by her consistent presence in my life. I knew that she was teeming with life and I could talk to her and play on her and in her and I was gifted these amazing lessons and treasures of sand dollars and endless days away from my otherwise existence. And she was for me. The definition of unconditional love and acceptance that I wasn't getting at home. Both of my parents are, were first generation Americans born in the early 1920s whose families escaped Nazi Germany or Lithuania, Latvia, Eastern Europe, Eastern Europe. And and because their lives were threatened, of course, and And that's so as Jews, our, you know, fear is woven into our DNA. It's, and it's, My understanding, it's always been our inherited mission to keep the traditions and the religion of Judaism alive. So, in my household, in my life, generational trauma is a fact. And while not everybody would respond that way, what we know about gene expression and intergenerational behavior patterns, Everyone is impacted in different ways, and those behavior patterns impacted me. In my household, there was no consideration of anything outside the rigidity of Judaism, which was still even very limited for me at that time. Anything other than that was unfathomable. So there was no, there was little room for spirituality. It was as if if you relax into spirituality, Then down goes your guard. And my folks were also not expansive thinkers, I say, and to their credit, it was their, they were informed by their very difficult upbringings. Yet, I thought every Jew thought this way. I thought this was the totality of Judaism in every Jewish home, here at least. And that spirituality was as foreign a word to the tongue as was Jesus. So, I now know how wrong I was. And that was just again based on my restrictive thinking. By this upbringing I had yet I joke as I do in my book that I must have come with spiritual potential stamped on my forehead, you know, because I've come with this spark that that would flicker enough to keep me curious. And then later would rage into a wildfire later in my life and that happened when as a young mom, my kids were in middle school and I was an active volunteer at our synagogue because I wanted them to have, you know, a formal upbringing, which I really didn't have. Other than again that limited viewpoint. And then there I grew increasingly interested in Jewish mysticism and spirituality of women. And I, and even the word mysticism, I don't even think I, that was on my radar at the time, but I wasn't finding anything about the faith I knew so little about because really there was no program 2001 there was barely even an internet. So, I basically decided to create such a thing and I proposed, I, I wrote up a proposal for our synagogue board of directors to allow me to lead a Jewish women's spiritual group to explore who we were As spiritual beings is the women of Judaism, and I wanted that to come from everyone's own personal lives and lived experiences in their stories. I, at this point, had learned that not everybody was raised like I was so I really wanted to know what was going on in their home and in their life and in their heart, and how they live that out in the world. So I wrote the proposal called it Miriam circle. Yeah, Moses's sister who co led the Hebrews through the desert with the tambourine and I joke in my book Directions to the Well. And the week before the board meeting was to happen and I was to present my proposal, 9 11 happened. And Liz, this is where I have to stop and say that while in retrospect that flicker and I can point to all those flicker moments Was her, was the divine feminine showing up in me, protecting me, blowing in my cells. She was in every lesson. She was in every joy. She got me through delivering my babies. She was on the floor with me during the dark nights of the soul. And she was the, the strength that I had to get up off the floor. And, but it wasn't until the morning of 9 11 that I first actually heard her voice. Still, I didn't know it was officially her until later in life. As a matter of fact, even in my book, which I wrote a few years ago, I think I made the comment that I don't know who was whispering in my ear, but I said yes. And what I said yes to was gather women. That's what I heard. That was the whisper. It was more like a blaring horn. Gather women. And, and the next thing I know, I have a living room full of women of diverse faith traditions Transcribed Discussing women's spirituality from our different faith perspectives and lived experiences and and later we grew to a global level. But while Miriam's circle didn't fit the bill, because of course that would have been for women's spirituality, It made sense to give her the name Sarah, the mother of all nations, spiritual and religious alliance for hope. And for the next 20 years, we hosted monthly meetings. We you know, our conversations were all over the board from month to month. But what was always anchored in our spiritual approaches, solutions, lots and lots of stories. Lots of food, laughter, some tears, difficult conversations. But we always had a safety net in our protocol for care and caregiving, which lives on our website. And we were the mothers of the community. We were invited. By universities and all different faith, you know, places of worship to sit on panels and to come and talk and we galvanize thousands of people out to hundreds of service projects and our annual interfaith weekend of community service, which. We referred to as covert community building, you know, in our faith reconciliation, by getting people to work side by side with one another to get to know who they really were. Not unlike learning who they are, spiritual as spiritual beings, what do they care for, you know, that's where we can meet. So we did that. And then again, as we started adding more programming and then comes zoom and even, and COVID really catalyzed us to be the world's largest And longest running grassroots interfaith women's organization. So we were literally living out what it looks like when women of faith show up or women who are conforming to their higher and their deepest value systems. And like you and why you start this show this way, I've always been extremely fascinated what makes people tick and where they come from, what's the root of their longing, you know? Yeah. So, and I want that for every woman. I want us all to meet there. I want us all to show up there and in that way we get to be the creatrix of our own life. And, and listen, listen with reverence.

Yeah, I love that language. You the root of the root of your longing. Like that's, do you, do you know that book that at the root of this longing, Carol Lee Flinders? Yeah, that was an early book I read. It's, and it's funny that you I wrote down the word mysticism when you were talking, and I wonder if there are those of us, cause that word called to me in my twenties. Actually, I read Carol. Lee Flinder's book, Enduring Grace, which was a portraits of seven different women, Christian mystics, and like the word, you know, and it didn't you know, for me, I was just kind of searching for like, where, where, where's the thing that I can relate to in these faith traditions, you know, because I'm not seeing me in anything, but I'm not quite ready to give up the tradition that I grew up with. But there was something about that word mystic. And like the mysticism that I was like, oh, I don't know what that is, but I want to go towards that. And as you were talking, I was like, oh, I think this is our, you know, ancestral or past life remembrance of us having these roles. There's some kind of knowing of like, oh, this is a thing that. Was important to me or my lineage in some way. And it's like that spark that brings it back into our, our attention. And yeah. And, and then to see how it's going to play out in this lifetime is so, is so fascinating. And it, what I love about your background, Sande, is that you're holding that kind of. It seems to me that you're holding that kind of mystic energy, but also really channeling it into action. Because I think sometimes we think about mysticism, it's like a, we're off in the cave or we're in our isolated spiritual community. And I love how you've moved it out and into the world. I think it's really beautiful.

Well, thank you. And I, I accept that as my responsibility. And I, I do kind of lie right at the, at the intersection of being able to hold that vision and have these sort of conversations, but also boots on the ground at the community level and bringing that down to a digestible level for. for everyone. You know, this is something Home to Her does. Your book does so beautifully. You have such, there's such honesty and elegance that makes everything in your book, and I mean everything, you should see your pages. They're all like, there's lines everywhere and stars and arrows and circles. Yes. You know, and all over the pages because you speak with such, like I said, honesty and clarity. And it's digestible and savory. And that's what we get to do. I feel like you do the same for the world. Like you bring, you bring things down to such a digestible way. And we all have to show up with what we have. And my skill is community. Yeah. You know, that's my lane.

Yeah. Well, and I'm curious too, because you alluded to it, so you heard the voice, gather the women, gather women when did you figure out, like, hey, there's this thing that I call the sacred feminine, but you can call it whatever you want, you know, but it's like, the her, when did, when did that kind of, Click for you. And how did that happen?

Well, I can, in retrospect, go back and see all the flickers and go, okay, she was there, you know, she was in every single story in my book, right? Making every adventure possible and also protecting me along the way and bringing me these people into my lives that would teach me lessons and be my guides. And, and as well as a plethora and platoons of angels that had sense of humors and caliprods. But where did I first come to really know? I have to say it was at the parliament. This is just last year. Now I've been on this journey for 22 years. Well actually my whole life. I honestly, I think I was born to take this odyssey. And to answer these questions and to fill in the gaps. That's why the word liminal was so important to me. It's like, let's slow down to the speed and not wonder what's happening in these gaps, but at the parliament, it all just came together. And I have to say that building the village, it wasn't the end result. That was the proof of my concept of what was possible for what a space looked like that was designed for women by women. It was the year of planning that we took to develop it. And we always said that while there were seven of us or eight of us on the committee, there was a ninth. And when something didn't want to happen, or when something flowed into us, It was her. She was our accountability partner the whole way. And something that was always said by particularly one of our members, but then we all adopted it is at every turn. We are so protected. She is there. We are so protective. So she was starting to flutter into my life in this more condensed way. But then the, the, the women's villages built. Everything's up, the pictures are up, the waterfall is flowing, and by the way, do you Yes, and

I want to, yeah, can I pause you for a second? Yeah. Because I want to just, can you help set the stage for people who are like, what is this Parliament of World Religions? Oh. What are you talking about? Like, just, like, I know we were there, and I'm like, I can see it, but like, let's, let's I mean, there's like thousands of people that come from all over the world to this thing, right? Like, how many, there was something like eight or nine thousand people there, right?

Yeah, depending on the parliament, anywhere from 7 to 10, 000 people come from 70 or 80 different countries representing their faith traditions or walk in the world or, or, or, you know, spiritually ethical or you know, ways of being in the world, but our seekers or educators or clergy are environmentalists, you know, are working on just most any social impact issue on the planet. Yeah. will come to, you know, participate in 400 different workshops or, or discussions. There's there's a huge exhibit hall that not only has a marketplace, but also you'll find expressions of religion and spirituality through ritual and ceremony that you can observe right there in the, you know, in the otherwise sterile halls of, you know, The of a convention center, which is, of course, blown out to its full capacity. There are there's food. The Sikh community comes and does a langar every year, which is, or every parliament, which is where they feed every one of those thousands of people. This must be, you ate there, huh? I could have eaten there every single day if I could have gotten away as much, but the most delicious, you know meal that they served thousands and thousands of people every single day for lunch. So that's been happening for many, many parliaments. So there's just, and then there's plenaries and assemblies and, and, Having been, this has been my fifth or sixth parliament, and the third parliament I was on the Women's Task Force for, I said, you know what, it's really time that there be a dedicated space. Designed for and by women that is for everyone. Really. I mean, we want everyone to come, but let's look at what happens when we, you know, provide a safe space. And this was all inspired because if you've ever been to a big conference before, sometimes, you know, that the most juiciest and meaningful connections are when you're just sitting down to take a load off on a bench that you can find. To give your feet a rest and, you know, just breathe and process everything that's going on. And so the first thing I wanted were velvet benches. And then, of course, we wanted to do a water ceremony, so we had to have a water fountain. And and I found one at Lowe's in the shape of a vagina. I was so excited. We had a red tent room where we had props. Constantly programming in there the whole week. And by the way, this parliament lasts a week, and every few years, three to four years, it moves from city to city, country to country. My first parliament was in Australia, and so it's bopped around the world. It's possible the next one will be in Scotland, but it really, but it takes millions and millions of dollars, and entire city initiatives. To bring a parliament to your state or your city. So that is the parliament and that was. We know what we had the privilege of doing with 1300 square feet that I was, you know, given permission to build in

and I didn't mean to interrupt you. So you were talking about like being in the women's village and like, that's sort of like where you knew her. So I, yeah, apologies for that. But yeah, I'd love to hear that too. Yeah,

no apologies. As a matter of fact, thank you. Because I skipped right over that. So the, you know, we knew we wanted, you know, to have these things happen, right? We had crown making session, we station, you know, where women everywhere were walking around the parliament with these gorgeous crowns that they made with, you know, a glue stick and all these flowers and different ribbons and things that we had provided. We had a mother tree where people could write their prayers on her leaves and stick them up. Where there were just branches or acorns. This is a last minute thing. And I rushed from Amazon these little acorn shaped papers where you can write your wishes that we want to flourish into 10, 000 for us. Right? And then bark that you can write. The name of your ancestors on and affix it to the, her trunk. And so we had, we had just circles of chairs. So we, you know, for spontaneous circles to happen, we had roses everywhere. And our whole container was held by women's woven voices, tapestries. That were brought to us by Women's Woven Voices, the organization, and these are little one square strips of fabric that were crafted by thousands of women from all over the world that made 1, 700 square feet of tapestry that we, that we, that held our space. We were literally held in women's voices. So, we've got all of these fixtures, all of these material things. Holding the space and providing space for women as well as the candle lit red tent room where we didn't met maiden mother and crown ceremonies and there were programs in there and silence in there and movement and all kinds of juicy things. I've used that word a lot here. I guess that's the word of the day yet. But day one, I'm walking out of this space, having witnessed people enjoying it. Being in there, you know, actually actualizing the place and I'm walking out and I'm like, my feet are not touching the floor and there is a gentle breeze blowing my hair off my shoulders and I am one with the universe. I felt so elevated. Could have, I could, I could have probably struck a match if there was an unlit match around me. I felt that I felt that hollow rod at the same time going through me. And, and I heard that from other women in different degrees. So that was when I knew she was present. That's when I, I found her. She had been trying to get my attention my whole life, but that's when I said, I'm here, you're here, we're here. I hear you.

I just, I love that you, you called it a flicker and like, you're using the language of flame and you know, in my book, I talk about her as like throwing a match at my feet and kind of setting me on fire. And and I even, yeah. And I've even thought about For me right now, kind of metaphorically, I'm working with, like, if anybody has seen my, my work, you may have seen that there's a butterfly. There's like a little kind of stylized butterfly that's connected to my work. And that's such a common metaphor of transformation. And and I've also been really, really more drawn to the, the feeling and the, the imagery of a moth lately, and specifically a moth to a flame, because the butterfly. To me, you know, we sort of, at least when we speak about it metaphorically, we know, we know it's going to, it's going to, it's Caterpillar and it's going to go through the goo, but we're going to come out something beautiful, you know, and isn't there reassurance in that journey? And, and I, I guess I'm sharing this, Sande, because I want to hear your reaction to it. But, To me working with the divine feminine and sacred feminine energy, it's more like she is the flame and I am the fricking moth and I have got to go, and I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know that I'm going to emerge on the other side as a butterfly. I have no idea. It is like stepping into that space of liminality to use your language or, you know, the unknown. I just did a co facilitated retreat around that topic last weekend, but you know, it can feel like. Like, moving towards annihilation in a way, and yet It's irresistible. Like we, we need to follow her, you know, because it's that powerful. So I'm going to stop there. I don't know how that,

please never stop. It, it's as if we don't have a choice in the matter.

Yes.

Now some accept that readily and go towards the flame and some resisted and we'll continue. I think perhaps to continue circle around this. And I think this is a really important point. I know that, you know, I think we all have similar stuff. Like when you start seeing patterns of behavior and patterns or relationships and patterns of things happening. You know, I think that those are absolute gifts. And she's putting them in front of us constantly until we can look at them and go, okay, dive in. What's this about? Let's get honest. Right. and I love the, the moth versus the butterfly. And I don't think it's a versus cause I think both things can happen at the same time. The, the moth though, we discount, this is just plain and white and every day, just like a w how we would equate the difference between a flower and a dandelion, but a dandelion is medicine. It's earth's medicine.

Yes.

And so when there's illness or dis ease. You'll start seeing dandelions pop around, up around the house, right? Or when we see a dandelion, it's a reminder. And what happens when we blow in a dandelion? Those seeds spread. That's why I didn't mention this, but we, after leaving the parliament, it became very clear to me that Sarah needed to change direction. And we've been grappling with this for, for years. Are we stale? Is this working? We're not community based anymore. We're not in our community. What are we? We don't want to duplicate what's happening out there. And so much is happening out there. Where are we? So we sat back and listened carefully, didn't take our eye off the flame though. And then leaving the parliament. Oh, okay. This is what's next for us. The global women's village. So we changed the name and I'm getting to the point I'm getting to is. The idea of you'll notice that there's a dandelion as part of our logo, and that was really intended to illustrate what we are really about. And that's blowing in one another's dandelion. This is something Jean Shinoda Bolen likes to talk about that blowing in your dandelions. It's what we could do for one another is blow in one another's dandelion. But then just a few weeks ago, I learned this. Fact about dandelions being Earth's medicine.

Yes. And I also learned that they are here on this continent because my English ancestors thought they were so valuable that they needed to bring them over when they immigrated from England. And I think definitely England, maybe other parts of the British Isles too, but they, they are, I'm fairly certain they're not native to the United States. They were brought as medicine, specifically as medicine. So yeah, kind of cool. And I have some

dandelion tea in my cupboard. It's like, I never connected the two. So that Ma, absolutely. You know, it's time we start questioning assumptions. This is what I feel about everything you said. And this is so much a part of what's important for us is the role of women right now in these evolutionary times is that we start questioning assumptions about what we think of things. And I'm so grateful that you are such a. On the forefront of this, I should say that you are willing and able to say, see that the yourself in that moth.

Yes. Well, yes. And I, yes. And I, I have, I feel like I've had lots of experience of Heading towards that flame and it often does feel like annihilation, although sweet in a way, but yeah, there's a lot of like a burning down of old structures that are no longer going to serve. And I've, you know, been actively in that process for one way or another for, you know, since I met her, since I, she, she showed herself to me 10 years ago. So yeah.

I think that's what she wants from us. I think that's, and I used to say marching orders. Those are our dancing orders. We get to do this as the embodied female.

Yes, we do. And I, I love, I'd love to hear you talk. So now you've had this two decades of women's spiritual activism. I don't know if that's how you'd call it, but I love to hear you talk about like what, and now that she is really made herself known to you, like, how is that showing up and where you're headed now? And what's, what's evolving and coming forward for you?

Yeah, thank you for asking. And again, this is all kind of new for me. So it's very fresh, but I'm really celebrating the fact that I'm experiencing a lot of courage in my life that I didn't have before.

It's

coming out in my words. It's coming out in my initiatives. It's, it's getting me really crystal clear on, and I'm not 100 percent there, but I'm getting much more clear. As it's crystallizing for me that I'm, I can be in reverence to something, you know, I, what, one of the biggest evidences of her in my life and to answer your question was, and I'll say, there's this song by George Harrison, My Dear Lord, I Really Want to Know You, I Really Want to Love You, I Really Want to Be Like You. My whole life I really, really wanted to know that yearning or that longing, you know, I really wanted it, but I wasn't finding it anywhere in my experience. And it was not that long ago that I came upon this painting of Mary Magdalene, who exemplifies her in so many ways with all the things coming off of her and how she is painted and the manner in which she was painted. And felt that longing. And now I can I can really, you know, I'm struggling with, do I lower my head in reverence or raise my head, my head in gratitude? You know, no matter what I do, I feel completely embodied for her. And it was the first time I've ever found that. And I have to say, none of this, I haven't abandoned my My Judaism, I found a place for Judaism in my life, which is where it's always been in that is I love to light the Shabbat candles on Friday night, because that connects me to my grandmothers and my ancestors who were right with me. They're lighting the room. If you can't see them, I, I know they're there. Maybe you can imagine them as perhaps I see yours as well. They're, they're a direct connection to not just every woman lighting candles that night at the same time, somewhere else in the world. Or at sunset. So we have the full 24 hours of it. We're all saying a similar prayer, being grateful for this light that we can bring. But also this lineage and mine happens to be all the, go all the way back to the beginning of time. I, my husband wasn't born Jewish, so can't say that about my daughter, but she feels that connection. So she can own that because she is my seed in her as do her, my two granddaughters. Yeah. So that's how it shows up in me. Absolute reverence and courage. And a knowing that I'm here. I have a sacred task. It's where my passions meet the needs in the world. My calling as Aristotle says. And and it, it wasn't that hard to do. It came when I think it was developed when I was writing the liminal odyssey, because I was grappling with all these stories in my life. It's the spiritual memoir. Right. And I'm looking at every one of these experiences that happened. Which immediately was led to the science, or the philosophy, or the folklore, or the mythology of the meaning of what happened. And, and it put everything, and it made everything so full of grace for me, that I had this Indra's net to catch her, to catch me.

Yeah. And so one of the things that I think it comes up for me when you talk about your background and so lovely, that idea of being connected to women all the way back through the beginning of time, which I think, I think actually lots of us can hold that in different ways too, regardless of your, your spiritual tradition, but for you, it seems so deeply connected to your heritage, your Jewish heritage. And yeah, I, I wondering if you would be willing to speak to, you know, you've got all of this work in Compassion and peace. And right now we're in this like powder keg of a situation of what's happening in Israel and Gaza. And I'm just wondering like how you are holding that with this, this deep commitment to that. And also this deep commitment to your, to your Jewish faith, then your Jewish heritage. Like, how are you, how are you navigating that and how are you holding that?

Yeah. Thank you for asking that question because it brings me to my knees. There are no words. It's unfathomable that this is happening. I personally, And this isn't the story of my parents, but I don't personally identify with Israel. I understand it's, it's existence. I understand it's story. My Judaism is really connected, like you said, to pre Israel yet. We're all connected in such profound ways, but I've never aligned with the politics of what it means to survive as a religion, right? I've never aligned with that. I don't think it's a justification for one single murder. And and I, what I'm watching is nationalism. I'm not looking at religion. I'm it's so disgraceful and unfortunate that this is happening in the name of Judaism or it's associated with Judaism because Israel is a Jewish state and it's supposed to embody these values and it was the place that Jews could be safe. And here, how are we treating our brother and cousins? I hear so many stories from my Muslim sisters of how their aunties, their next door neighbors growing up were Jewish, and how they would have each other over for each other's holidays and teach each other how to cook different things. That is how we behave as a humanity. But this is nationalism. I think this is just the epitome of nationalism. Of an example of all of the systems that are breaking down on our planet right now, this leads us right into the conversation of the system of domination and the resistance to what's breaking through. You know, we're at this really fascinating time in history, aren't we? I mean, what a blessing. And I'd like to think I had something to do with choosing to be here, but I'm sure happy I am. Although I was born 10 years too late because I would have been a great hippie, but I can

see that about you, but I think you're too, you know, like you might've gotten too distracted with the fun of it. And then you're here for an important mission. So I think you're right on time, but I could see that.

What kind of trip I would have gotten lost in, but I used to hand out love beads on the bus, and this is during the 70s, where it was hip huggers in neon colors, and here I'm a hippie with, you know daisies in my braids. So the, this dichotomy, you know, we're at this really fascinating time where this right, this rise of frequency on our planet and these conversations are plentiful. They don't make CNN, you know, they don't, you'll never find him on television, unfortunately, maybe one day you will, but the airways are flooded with evolutionary thinkers. Those of us who are accepting that we're at this bend, cosmologists, cosmetologists, everybody, they're all having this conversation no matter where they are. And, and I meant cosmetologists, you know, because I have this conversation when I'm getting my hair done. So they Same, by the way, same. Yes.

You're right. You're so right.

I just don't want anybody to think I mixed up my words. But at any rate and and we're also watching systems fall apart. You know, it's like the seed that has been planted. In us the seed that has been our inherited right and especially women because we know biologically we pass our seeds down through our bloodline to our daughters and our daughters to our daughters daughters. So I'm carrying like great great great great ancestors grandmothers seed. What is my responsibility to that? But like a seed underground that's been just waiting patiently for the right conditions. To start coming through the soil. We can see both. It has to disintegrate first. Of course, it has to fall apart. It has to change its DNA. And I don't like the butterfly. You mentioned its DNA will completely change. It won't resemble anything of what that seed looked like. It'll break through the soil and we have no idea what what it's going to manifest. We don't know if it's going to be 10, 000 forests like oak trees or if it's going to be and whatever it's going to be, whatever species it's going to show up as. We get this privilege. To to garden it to be the sacred gardeners of that seed. So we're watching both of these things happen and we have to really go easy on ourselves. It doesn't have to be this hard. We put a lot of there's enough happening out there to weigh us down. We put enough on ourselves. And by the way, we, you know, this domination trans women have been walking in that we have to play small that, you know, we carry this guilt and the shame and all of these things, which, you know, we could have another three programs on right here. And I know you've had these conversations that we have to take a load off ourselves and give ourselves some love and grace.

For sure.

We're needed right now. We need to clear the gunk. I believe I read in your book and I wrote it in mine. We have got to clear the gunk, remove the wheat from the chaff and be the mothers in the room. You know?

Yeah. And that leads into, I think, you know, conversations that you and I have had separately over email and, and oh, and, and, you know, like on, on in person or at least on zoom too. But like what? What do you see emerging right now in terms of women's lead, and you tell me if you want to use the word leadership or not, because I feel like that's got some patriarchal kind of hang ups with it too, but like women's leadership potential and roles and the possibilities that are there in this moment as everything is breaking down, like where and how are you seeing the opportunity for women to really step forward in different ways? very much.

I am so grateful you mentioned the languaging around the word leadership, because that's really been rubbing me right for me leadership. And this will answer your question where I think we're going, where it's showing up for me I'm seeing evidence of it. And I've been doing this research on this very particular conversation, what is the future of women's leadership and I'm crowdsourcing. The knowledge I'm not looking in books, although I take that back. I am looking and reading books and following threads. But really, my primary clinical research is in having conversations and hearing it from people ages 15 to 93 so far soon to be a 12 year old. And she's brilliant. And because I want to hear from people what they think, and what I'm coming to the understanding is, is we need a new, we need new language. We need new words around this. And the word leadership in itself is hierarchical. Yes. Right. It, it, it, and so how do we stretch the edges of what's possible to the place where it's It needs a new language. It needs a new word. And I think this is going to be the first time I mention this publicly, but I've been using the expression, women who future women who are okay we know where we've come from. I mean, just read home to her. You have this beautiful through line of, of, and for good reason why we're, why we've come this far, but now that we know, now that we've read Liz Childs Kelly's book, now that we know this stuff, and we have an endless supply of other resources that tell us this, Okay, if we still choose to live in that space, we're victimizing now. We got to get really honest and real here. We've got to say, okay, I get that. What do I have to do? What do I have to clear? What do I have to look at? What assumptions do I have to question and, and start, you know, developing, creating a new system for us. And I think you're the one, no, you are the who said, you know, this system that we're trying to fix. Wasn't designed for women in the first place. It's time to recreate a new system. And so what doesn't work hierarchy? What's what's old and tired systems of domination. So we have to look at ourselves, the words we use, what we think of ourselves and how do we, And this is the my favorite part about this whole thing and what women who feature do and that is that we question every assumption.

Yes.

What are these patterns that have gotten me here? And why do I think like that? Why do I use that word? Is that word really relevant? What words are we using that I shouldn't be using anymore? You will not find the word submit on any button on our website. We're just eliminating words. We're creating a new narrative too.

Yeah. Even your point to marching orders. Like there's so many. Metaphors of dominance and violence and hierarchy in our language that we don't, we don't even think about it. Like when people say, I feel really triggered, you know, like there's so many ways that we just accept this into our lives. And yeah, you are, yes, you're, you're so right. And I, I wanted to name too. And I wonder if you feel this Sande, and I actually think that what you're doing with Sarah and its transformation to the global woman's village is so important. But because we're doing this. We have no roadmap like we do and we don't like yes You can look at my book and realize we have not this has been done before but not in this context and not at This scale like the reality is we can look back at other cultures and learn from them, but we've never been As connected globally, the way we are now with this matrix and capital capitalism and 8 billion people on the planet. Yes, like all of that is so helpful and informative. And we're also, you know, we're, there's that Adrian rich poem, the maps they gave us were out of date by decades or something. I'll find it and I'll put it in his show notes. It's so, so gorgeous. And so I wonder, like, for you, how do you hold the Because it can feel like, you know, you're stepping into liminal space. It can feel like annihilation. Like, I don't know where I'm going. I don't know where I'm going. Like, how do you, how do you hold that, you know, like in that, because there's something so exciting about, in a way about these systems falling apart and the opportunity to future, you know, and imagine the new, and there's something also very terrifying about it, because we don't know where we're going, right?

We don't know where we're going, but we know we're on our way. And I don't want to poison the water hole when I get there. And so first of all, where do I hold it? I hold it in a container. There's not even a container or constellation of on wonder. I'm constantly going, Oh, that's interesting. Where before I'd go, Oh my God, you know, I'm like, Oh, what's that about? Cause I can remove myself and my ego and my victimization and my traumas. which are real and do deserve real love and care and whatever attention is necessary. I don't want to discount that, but my answer is, I don't know where we're going, but I'm willing to be a sacred gardener. And what I also think is really important is that we show up with our sacred task. What do you do? Liz, you are a phenomenal orator. You're a phenomenal weaver of stories. You are a beautiful expression of the divine feminine, particularly how you hold space on the airwaves, what you're doing with these airwaves that are flooded and why you're, we choose to listen to you. Right. That's for me that I would suggest that that might be one of your sacred tasks. I know another one is being, you know, an amazing mom. And so the, the, and sister and friend, yet we have these sacred tasks that are our seat in our pocket or our womb, you know, and what are we going to do with it? And that was a revelation I had while standing on a walking bridge just down the road from Auschwitz. It's, I don't know if you remember the last chapter of my book where we had spent the day in Auschwitz and the next morning, I'm standing over this bridge that's going, you know, under me and all these ducks and the slush greenery everywhere wondering where did Jews hide in here, you know, and by the way, when I'm walking through the little town of Auschwitz, which is Auschwitz in, in in Polish, I would look at, you know, in churches and look at are those panels hollow or people were people hiding there or in their attics. But here I'm standing on this bridge looking in the trees going. Wow. And then I realized. I am standing over the bridge, over the water that has come down past Auschwitz, the death camp, and now the museum, called the museum, that where ashes of the souls were dispensed up to hide the evidence. And I immediately realized that all of the souls had to have absorbed into Beside the banks of this little teeny river and giving growth and life that I'm going to start crying. I'm there with you. Yes. Tell this story. I wrote it. It's still, it's still new to me, you know, gave refuge in life to for life to continue. And then I heard, and this was, never realized until this moment, but another voice I heard were millions Of souls saying we choose love, we choose love, we don't let mourning be our story, right? Learn, but live, and, and in that way, we can say everything that's come before us, as we're standing over that river, what are we going to do with it? Are we going to, are we going to acknowledge where it's, how it's brought us this far? Are we going to say, we are the ones that get to redirect the river, and we do that through awareness, watching our language, and accepting our dancing orders, and it takes time, it takes practice, it's not that easy, I'm not suggesting it's easy, but it's as easy to do the practice, just pay attention to your words. That's a great start.

Yeah, it also feels, and I think this may be a good place for us to, to wrap. I'm just so like, woof, so full from this, but it also, I had a feeling, you know, when you're talking about the water and the river and imagining you and I are going to be. ancestors one day, and I can promise you we're going to be intentional as heck about it, like, we're living our lives that way now. But I just had that sense of like, stepping into that stream of human possibility and potential. And that I don't know why this is making me so emotional, but that I get to let go of like, knowing the outcome in my lifetime or even my children's lifetime. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't because I'm just, I'm just willing, I'm so willing to put myself into that stream. And I know you are too. And I think if we all do that, I think that's, that's more than enough. It really is more than enough.

You just reminded me of Henry David Thoreau. Go go in the direction of your dreams, harbor, live the life you imagined. And that's what we get to do. Thank you for that beautiful summation.

Oh my gosh. This is so incredibly rich and wonderful, Sande. I just, I, I, every time I get to be with you, my heart is so full and I'm so glad that people get to hear from you and experience You here on the show. So thank you so much for all that you do in the way that you show up in the world. I think I'm really want to acknowledge. I've been paying attention to this a lot lately that I believe that we all have a choice that you, you didn't have to say yes to this path. You didn't, you could have chosen a different life. You really could have. And you said yes. And so thank you. Cause I think we're all, we're all benefiting from it.

Thank you. Yeah, we're all mirrors for each other, too. So thank you. And everyone out there who's listening because that means you're there, too. So I think that this is important to acknowledge. We are so mighty in numbers.

Yeah, oh my gosh. I will put a link to the global website, Global Woman's Village. It's out there. I can send people to it. Yep. Okay. I will do that. And yeah, I don't know. Go have a good cry if you need one. I might do that after this, but just, I want to thank all of you for listening. I just, I know, I, I, If you paid attention, there's been a big gap. I, if you listened, I've, I'm going through a divorce. And so, you know, my, my energy has been in different places, but these conversations, they so like fill my heart and my soul. So I thank you for continuing to show up and and, you know, bringing your own heart into these into these spaces and yeah, until next time, take such good care of yourselves and I will be with you again, very soon. Home to Her is hosted by me, Liz Kelley. You can visit me online at hometoher. com, where you can find show notes and other episodes. You can read articles about the Sacred Feminine, and you'll also find a link to join the Home to Her Facebook group for lots more discussion and exploration of Her. You can also follow me on Instagram, at home to her, to keep up to date with the latest episodes. Thanks so much for joining us and we'll see you back here soon.