Good morning everyone.

This is gonna be such a fun podcast.

Today I have Kelly Coy, one of my Uvac Lab students, and you might hear some sweet little noises 'cause she is snuggling up with Carter right now.

So, welcome Kelly.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Excited.

I'm,

I'm so excited.

So I wanted to start out, because you came to us on the VBAC lab.

So just like, you know, quickly, can you tell us like your first birth and what you were looking for and why you decided on the VBAC lab?

Yeah, so, my first son is almost three, so, they're almost three years apart, so I. Really I don't feel like I prepared a ton for my birth the first time around.

And, basically, long story short, I ended up getting recommended to be induced at my 38 week appointment.

'Cause my blood pressures had been running a little high, but I, there's a myriad of reasons why I don't necessarily think it was, you know, a real diagnosis of gestational hypertension, but at the time I was worried about.

Talking, you know, not doing the thing that the OB is recommending.

So we just kind of went along with it and I was, not dilated at all.

My body really wasn't ready at that point.

But so we went ahead and went in with the induction and, they ended up trying to induce me for like three days and really never got past about four centimeters.

And I just, I didn't have the education that I do now as far as what I should have been doing, moving around and all of these things that would've helped facilitate me progressing more.

And ultimately, they had my water broken and everything.

They started worrying about infection and I still wasn't progressing.

And then we kind of ended up getting left with a C-section and then I ended up hemorrhaging after and having some post-op complications from that as well.

And it was like a seven day hospital, stale and all, which was pretty, pretty rough.

So I knew I wanted to do things differently this time.

Really, really wanted a vbac, to try and have some form of, you know, kind of redemption just to, do what my body was, made to do.

And, you know, I, I just don't feel like the C-section needed to happen in that circumstance.

So just wanted to learn more, advocate for myself better.

And I really found that through the VBAC lab, which was awesome.

Remind me how you found us.

I found you on Instagram.

Okay.

Well, so Instagram and, but it was, somebody recommending your podcast.

I actually was going through my phone this morning and I found, I think what must have been the very first screenshot of your podcast from a GI followed on Instagram, which was like a little over two years ago.

I need to shout her out.

Out.

Who

was, who was it that you were following that said, was it another student or was it an influencer or, I don't,

I, I don't think so.

I think it was like an influencer.

She was a, like Beachbody coach or something like that at the time, but I think, I don't know, she, I don't think she was a student, but I just came across, her on Instagram and she had had your podcast on there, so I found that and started listening to it periodically and then.

Looked into the, looked into the courses after that

and then became one of ours.

Yeah, I actually ended up purchasing the course while I was still like trying to get pregnant, so I was like way ahead of the game.

'cause I was very determined to get that vba.

Did I know that?

I dunno that I knew that.

I think so.

I think I post maybe I posted on maybe in the Be like in the Facebook community initially and I think I had said like once or twice I kind of popped in.

I was like, Hey, not pregnant yet, but here I am and just trying to learn and everything.

So many, it's so funny.

Many I kind of the back background for a while, many,

how many of my VBAC Lab students come that way.

Yeah, they come when they're still trying.

'cause they just wanna be as educated as possible before they choose providers, before they start navigating all the roadblocks.

Right?

Yeah.

So I'm, I'm glad I did it that way.

It gave me a chance to go through the course, you know, like 10 times.

'cause I'm, yeah.

Very type A.

So I was like, I'm doing this.

And just so you guys know, tell, tell them a little bit about your background, which is, I feel is funny too.

Like that plays into a lot of it.

Yeah.

So I, I do work in the medical field, so I'm a pa I work in primary care.

I've done that for about four years now.

I've been a PA since I was, or since 2018, so I, you know, I do have some medical knowledge, but not necessarily in the OB realm.

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, even as a provider myself, you still, when you're out of your element, you still don't feel super confident mm-hmm.

Going up against, you know, the specialist.

Yeah.

So it was tricky.

So we had some different things that came up along the way that had to kind of decide between which, I mean, it was nice to have some of that extra knowledge, but.

Kind of trying to find that balance where you're not

mm-hmm.

Pushing too hard, but still, advocating for yourself and everything too.

Yeah.

Because ultimately it comes out to, like, if you don't, you're gonna regret that.

If you know that, you know that this situation is not best for you and you are like, I don't wanna speak up and I don't want to, you know, argue with the providers, then yeah.

You are gonna regret that

a lot.

Yeah.

And you know, there's always that fear as well.

You're like, okay, if I do go against what they say and something bad does happen.

Mm-hmm.

You know, especially if they're waving this diagnosis in your face.

Yeah, I can have complications.

Then you're like, well if, if something bad happens that's on me and I'm gonna have to live with that.

Yeah.

So it's a tough, tough decision all around.

But

yeah, it, it's.

That's why even in both my courses I say, we can refuse anything, but should you, that's where the education comes in.

Mm-hmm.

That's where knowing how to ask the right questions, asking for them to print.

Studies that they're putting.

'cause what I have found with my students, a lot of the doctors when they're like, well, can you go print that study?

They're like, well, you know, this is, and they blow it off.

'cause there is no like mm-hmm.

Study really.

Maybe they heard it at a conference or they heard it somewhere, but they really don't have proof.

And I, I love that for my mom's listening who aren't in the medical field to hear that.

Like, it's a struggle for us in the medical field too, because we, there's a balance.

So let me ask you about the journey this time, because I know you navigated some things and I would love for you to talk about the baby Aspira because I get asked that on the Daily mm-hmm.

That someone's being recommended to take baby Aspirin for this reason or that reason.

And I just want you to kind of chat with.

Why they were recommended baby aspirin for you and how you came to the choices that you.

First, you know, my, my blood pressures, I had a couple high readings in the office, but that first pregnancy, I, I really didn't monitor it a whole lot at home, so we really weren't totally sure what my baseline was.

But with it running a little high, you know, basically it runs the, you run the risk of developing preeclampsia, and the baby aspirin can help reduce the risk of that.

And the earlier you're started, the better.

But so this time around, you know, with how everything played out and I, I felt like I was a little passive, so to speak, kind of in my, decision to go through with the induction last time, just, you know, a little bit of out of fear.

So I look back through all of my, my notes, through my chart and everything and, and try to piece back together more objectively.

With some of my medical background.

Trying not to mix it up too much with my, you know, having been obviously personally going through it.

To kind of determine if I felt like it was a really real diagnosis and if I was truly at risk for it in this pregnancy.

And I, I really felt like it was not that way.

And so I, I thought about it for a very long time.

We talked about it multiple times for a series of months Hangouts.

Yeah.

On the Hangouts.

Yeah.

And I did my own research on it and listened to some other, you know, evidence-based podcasts on it and.

I just, ultimately, it just didn't sit right with me and I wasn't at peace with it, so I decided not to take it.

And you know, I felt very confident through that and I monitored my blood pressure all throughout my pregnancy and it really did stay, pretty much in normal range.

It did kinda end up backfiring a little bit just because I ended up with a kind of atypical presentation.

I ended up actually having preeclampsia, but not necessarily the typical, presentation they normally see.

So it was kind of funny, not ha ha funny, I guess, but

yeah.

So if I ever did it again, I, I would, I would definitely do it this time around, but at the time I was not just at, at peace with it.

Mm-hmm.

And thankfully everything turned out fine, but, yeah.

Okay.

So you would do it next pregnancy?

I would, I think now that I have, I've seen.

The, the labs and everything to justify that, you know, the diagnosis truthfully was there this time around.

Yeah.

Even though it wasn't, you know, the, the typical presentation where the blood pressure kind of shoots up and you've got all the symptoms.

Yeah.

Mine is really just based off some abnormal, labs and my liver enzymes.

But just knowing where that ended up this time.

I, I do feel like I would be more comfortable doing it the next time around.

Mm-hmm.

If we, if we have another one, which we're not sure right now.

Okay.

I was wondering.

We'll see.

So tell us about, we'll keep going back and

forth.

Tell us about Carter's.

Your pregnancy journey.

So for those of you guys listening, you probably know by now, 'cause I talk about it a lot.

When you join one of my birth classes, you also get our pregnancy hangouts.

We call them happy hours.

Mm-hmm.

We have a VBAC happy hour once a month on the first Monday of every month.

And then on Wednesdays we have our pregnancy Happy hours.

And you were really involved.

You were there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I tried to be at every VBAC one for sure, and then I wasn't able to be at all the.

Pregnancy, but I tried to pop on whenever I could.

Just ended up kind of falling during bedtime for my toddler.

Yeah.

So we tried to do it whenever I could, but yeah.

Well, we do the V lab a little bit later.

Yeah.

Yes.

Knowing because there's other brothers involved.

Toddler, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

So that worked out well.

Yeah.

That was my, so my beta students, when I launched the VBAC lab, I put it out there and I'm like, I want 15 beta students that can help me create the best VBAC course ever.

And all of them were like, we can't hang out at six o'clock.

So we started it.

Yeah.

We used to do it a little bit later, but it was too late for me.

So, but yeah, that's why we do that.

How did you, did you feel like the VBAC Hangouts helped you and like in what ways?

What would you say about that?

Yeah, yeah.

No, I thought the Hangouts were really helpful.

It was nice to have a group of women, not only that were pregnant, but had, you know, that were also striving for that VBAC and had similar goals and similar experiences and you know, some element of kind of some birth trauma.

A lot of times with the.

From the first time around.

So just having that community and kind of solidarity in that, and then being able to talk through some of those decisions with somebody else besides just my husband who You know, doesn't have that medical background.

So, it, it was nice to be able to kind of feel things out and hear what other people are, you know, going through or, or questioning as well.

Questions.

You may not have even thought of that.

Yeah.

Just being able to even be a fly on the wall for that aspect of it, hearing other people's stuff get brought up is, it was really helpful.

That's what I love about the VBAC lab, because you might hear someone discussing something that's, you know, 15, 20 weeks ahead of you and you're like, oh, okay.

And you kind of store it in your brain and then you face that same thing and you're like, oh, that's how she handled it.

Or you hear another one, like that's how she handled it.

And now.

I have some options on how I can handle it.

Yeah, I noticed there was a, a lot of blood pressure stuff that got brought up, so I think it, it really opened the door for some good conversation with other, some of the other girls as well.

Yeah.

Which was, which was nice to see.

So tell us about your birth.

We wanna hear days leading up.

Yeah, so

I really, yeah, so I had a very smooth pregnancy with him.

I was very lucky.

I have pretty smooth pregnancies.

I just.

And to have exciting births for whatever reason at the end.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I ended up going into labor actually on my due date that night.

I remember waking up around 11 o'clock, that night with some mild contractions and, wasn't able to really sleep great through them.

So I just kind of tossed and turned, got up, went downstairs, kind of wandered around a little bit, tried to do some stretching and you know, bouncing on my ball and stuff like that.

And then.

In the morning, you know, things just kind of kept going.

I sent my husband to work.

I was like, nothing's crazy happening.

Things are still kind of slow.

So, he went in for half the day and I just hung up in my bedroom, had some candles lit, had my ball, and just trying to be mellow and just let things progress and, just try to stay as calm as I could and, really just try to rest up as much as possible.

And, so I labored really all day and into the evening, into the night.

So I talked to the midwife with my group a couple times and ultimately as things continued to progress and things started to get more intense that next or that evening.

So it had been almost 24 hours that I had been in labor at that point.

When things were starting to get a little bit more intense with the contractions, we decided to go in around 10 o'clock or so that night.

So that was, I was 40 in one at that point and then got in, I was five centimeters when I got there and then got checked in.

I knew I wanted to do some laboring in the tub, so they went ahead and started to get that set up for me.

And, just, kept going through the contractions.

My husband would come over and do some counter pressure, hip squeeze stuff for me.

Whenever I needed that.

And then, they checked me again.

They wanted me to be at six centimeters before I got in the tub.

So did that.

And, you just checked me again after a little bit and I was at six, six to seven.

So then I got in and I spent a couple hours, laboring in the tub, which was really nice.

I do think it helped.

A lot.

I mean, obviously the contractions are still ramping up, so it's not the most Yeah.

You know, you're not just hanging out completely.

But it did, it did help quite a bit.

And I, I kind of ended up stalling out a little bit at seven and was in the tub for probably a couple hours or so, and, they checked me again.

I was still at a seven and, at that point it's been well over 24 hours.

I haven't really slept.

know, we're all kind of getting a little bit worn out and I'm just wanting things to pick up a little bit.

So we're just kind of talking about our options at that point.

And my water had not broken yet, so they brought up the option if I wanted to have them break my water, to have that kind of speed things up and, you know, knowing things would pick up a little bit or a lot of, bit after that.

So I did end up deciding to have them do that.

It ended up being a little tricky just because right around the time after they broke my water is when all my blood work came back and that's when my liver enzymes were like quadrupled what they should have been.

And, and that alone, during labor is a diagnosis in and of itself just once eclampsia so.

They kind of told me then, you know, I'm not low risk anymore.

So then they said, we really need you to get out of the tub.

So that was kind of bad timing because then right after they broke my water, it did intensify quite a bit and then getting outta the water pretty quickly after that, things, ramped up quite a bit, we'll say.

So, got out of the tub and I was really trying to get through contractions.

They started getting a lot more intense and we were talking about.

Options at that point I was interested in maybe doing the nitrous oxide 'cause it is available at our hospital.

But I was, it was a little, I was struggling a little bit at that point that I wasn't sure.

Knowing as a vbac I could have been pushing for quite a while, just since I hadn't.

I had vaginal birth before, so I debated between the nitros versus considering an epidural.

And when and when they checked me, when I got out, I was at eight centimeters and I was starting to think a little wacky stuff.

So in hindsight, I'm like, I was travel.

Transition.

Transition.

Yeah.

But at that point I was, I was really not sure.

I was like, if I'm gonna be potentially pushing for a few hours, I was like, I'm not sure if I. We'll be able to do this for another hours, few hours.

And of this was happening while we

were asleep.

Your labor bat signal team was asleep.

Yes.

Yeah.

Everything happened at night.

Yeah.

So this was of course, probably at like three in the morning or so, or something like that.

All the times are kind of a blur of course.

But so that was kind of tricky.

You know, in hindsight I would've loved to try the nitrous and I think I was starting to get a little panicky, so I think it might've helped with some of the anxiety at that point.

But again, I didn't know how long or how much relief it would give me, so

mm-hmm.

At eight centimeters I knew, you know, it was kind of one or the other and had to kind of make a decision and roll with it.

So at the end of the day, I did end up deciding to go ahead and get the epidural.

So they came in and sitting still through those couple contractions of getting that it's intense was probably the, probably the hardest point of the whole thing.

Because I, all I wanted to do was like throw my body in a different position.

And so I just, my midwife I had at that point was amazing.

And she let me just clench onto her with all my might and, you know, just kind of do whatever I needed to do without, to, to not move while they got that set up for me.

So they got that all set up.

It unfortunately didn't work super well, and it was placed, I think, a little bit off to one side.

So like one of my legs was really, really numb.

The other leg was barely numb.

Like I could still moving my feet, but my stomach was fully numb.

So.

And then I could still feel contractions like enough that I, that's very dis through.

I'm pretty uncomfortable.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So they tried to add another dose of the medicine and it still really didn't do much.

So, they checked me and I was at 10, I was complete at that point.

So they were like, you know, if you're uncomfortable enough, do you wanna go ahead and try to start pushing?

And I was like, I don't know what else to do, so let's just do it.

But because my stomach was so numb, I really.

I couldn't feel the muscles I needed to push effectively.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, having kind of this wacky like, asymmetrical numbness, I, I was, I ended up on my back, which is not necessarily what I originally wanted, but, that's kind of where, where I ended up and it just, it was kind of hard.

Yeah.

It was hard to push in that position and hard to really, especially not being able to, I was doing it effectively.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like my stomach in my part of my, that's where I wish numb part of me.

Yeah.

Because the tug of war would've been perfect for that.

So they did end up doing that.

So I ended up.

Pushing.

So we tried for like a half hour or so and really wasn't making a ton of progress.

So they tried, just kind of flipping me back and forth for, you know, 30 to 60 minutes to try and see if he'd drop a little bit more.

Mm-hmm.

And then they'd kind of come back and we'd regroup and try again.

Of course, at that point that's like right at shift change.

So then I'm getting a new nurse, I'm getting a new midwife.

It was, I loved the team I had, you know, at first, and the team I had that came on was, was fine, but I don't feel like they were quite as encouraging, which, which was a little disappointing.

That's hard.

But, yeah, but at that point we were, we were just kind of in it and that was kinda what it was.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

So then, we did pushing, they ended up putting the squat bar up for me, mostly just to put my legs on to get some leverage.

And we did the tug of war.

Did you do it with the spot bar?

With

the sheet sheet and your feet on there?

So we did both.

So we did it with like one of the, either the midwife or nurse or somebody kind of just pulling against me and then they did it where they wrapped the sheet around the squat bar and I had both ends of it.

And then I would just pull and had my feet up on the squat bar as well.

And yeah, that's one of my favorites.

Then pushed that way since I was pretty numb.

Tug of wars.

No jerk.

How did your arms feel?

It really helps.

I did

that.

After.

I have never been more sore in my life.

Oh my God.

That next day I've never been more sore.

So I did it with Ashley.

It was

intense between that and my back.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I did it with Ashley.

So for you guys who don't know if you're new here, I have my courses, but I also have my mama membership call Mama Society, and Ashley is our community manager.

She's also our postpartum doula.

And she asked me to be her doula for her birth.

And so I went there and normally I had gotten, throughout my career, I used to do it, but I would be so sore, but also.

It's really dangerous for your nurse 'cause you can slip right into someone's vagina, which is not fun.

And so I started doing it with the squat bar for both those reasons.

Mm-hmm.

But with Ashley, it was Ashley and I was the doula family member.

Right.

So her and I like, she'd hardly move her arms for like a.

Yeah, no, that's about how it was like, I think the first few days, I think my arms and my back were more sore than anything else.

Yeah.

Which was wild.

That's how wild was like, I literally felt like I did the,

but it works, it works to get the baby, I say for the roadblock, so it works to get the baby up and under like the pelvis.

Mm-hmm.

It just, and, and over that tailbone like it works.

And what I love about it is that when you can't feel those muscles.

It's activating them anyway.

Like you don't need to feel them.

Right.

Tula, you just need to pull, you know?

Yeah.

The dog.

Yeah.

So

that's really what they utilized.

Yeah.

So, so we, yeah, we utilized that pretty much the whole time, or I handle, they had handlebar on the side of the bed.

It ended all in all, it ended up being like four hours,

which was, yeah, it was, it was a lot.

I was very, very tired and having not really.

Slept for.

Mm-hmm.

Like, you know, a couple days at that point.

Labor's no joke.

It was, it was no joke.

It's hard work.

I know you've said.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They, I know you've said on previous like podcasts and on your birth course, they, you know, they don't call it labor for, you know, no reason.

And that's a hundred percent true.

It was definitely the thing I've ever done.

Yeah.

But it's, it really was.

Yes.

Yeah, it was.

It was.

It was definitely worth it.

So tell

me your recovery differences besides not being able to move your arms or back for a week because of tug of war.

Let's ignore that all of you guys, because tug of war is my favorite go-to for a first time mom.

And if you're a VBAC mom who has never gotten to complete and pushing, then you're basically a first time mom when it comes to vaginal delivery.

Mm-hmm.

So remember that tug of war.

Tug of war is the best.

Yeah.

You might have been pushing longer.

Yeah.

Yeah, we looked, I looked back, I think some of the timestamps, 'cause I had a friend of mine take photos, birth photos for me, which was so cool.

Yeah, I think all in all, 'cause he was born, I think I started pushing, well actually shift changes at seven.

So I had that little, like half hour of, you know, trial and then I think it was another three to three and a half.

So he was born at like 1130 that morning.

But.

It was, yeah, it was a long, it was a long way.

Yeah.

But I did get to, um, help, like deliver him.

So I got to help pull him out, which was Oh, I love that.

So cool.

So I love, you know, it was a rough, it was, it was a long, you know, long process and very, very challenging.

But to be able to do that and just like pull him straight up onto my chest was like, amazing.

I did that with Brion too.

You forget about it all very.

Yeah, it is such an ama.

So if you guys are listening, you're like, what do you mean?

So what she's talking about is that you can actually be the one who pulls your baby out and up onto your chest.

So basically what you do is you lean down, you put your hands under the baby's armpit, and you wanna do it that way because that anchors a little more 'cause they are a little messy and slimy.

So.

It's it's nerve wrack.

Like every time I would, so if, you know, if we had something go on and I had to bring the baby from, from the birth to the warmer or what have you, I'm like locked down.

That's why we hold the babies the way we do and people look at us like, oh my God, how you're holding that baby is horrible.

But it's safety wise 'cause they are messy.

Oh yeah, they are slimy.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

So you pulled him out.

Those were so

cool.

You put him, pulled him out, put him on your chest.

And at what moment were you like, oh my God, it happened?

Yeah, I think like shortly after that, like I, it was so cool having those pictures to look back on.

'cause I remember there's somewhere I'm looking at my husband, I'm like.

You just see, like you can just see in my eyes and I'm just like, holy crap.

I did it.

And I was like so tired at that point, but I was so, so happy and it was just so, you know, even though it was such a long labor and pushing took so long, it was still like so redemptive.

And I was like, I did that thing and oh, it was so cool.

It just, I felt like on top of the world.

I love that so much.

And that's, you know, the tagline for the VBAC lab is to have your redemptive birth.

And I wanna point out to you guys that, yeah, a lot, you know, some of my students don't get their vaginal delivery, but the majority of them who end up for whatever reason, having a cesarean, again, it still is different and redemptive.

And that's because they're empowered with knowledge and they feel like I made the choice.

Someone else did not choose for me.

I made the choice.

And some of those students yeah, are like you.

They were laboring for a long time and they're like tapping out.

It's not because they couldn't have, but they just tapped out because they were done with it because it, it becomes a mind thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It definitely crossed my mind a few times, but I was so determined.

I was like, yeah, man, this really sucks at this point.

But I was like, no, I'm.

I'm doing this feedback, you know, if, if he's doing well and he tolerated the labor great.

There was no issues with him, thank goodness.

But so I was like, I, nothing is getting in my way.

Yeah.

So I want you guys to hear me.

Here's a little strategy for you if you're your vbac.

VBACs are slow.

They're slower.

Like you've gotta just look at it like a first time labor.

Now, they aren't always, but majority of you guys are gonna have a slow vbac.

And so if you start thinking, I'm done, I wanna tap out, maybe say, okay, when I say that I have to wait two hours.

And then have to reevaluate and, and do some different coping, do some movement.

Get into the mindset where, because I feel like a lot of women who do not have a successful vbac, it's because of their mindset strategy.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah, I would agree.

So, having mindset, I mean, no matter what, if you're trying for a vaginal delivery, you have to be like solid in your mindset.

It's hard work.

Oh, yeah.

It was hard.

It was very hard.

But after having gone through the recovery and, and, and with some complications from my C-section too, I just knew that was not a recovery that I was.

Really wanting to willingly sign up for.

Mm-hmm.

And you know, I did end up with a couple of second degree tears this time around and, had to have some stitches, which I'm still still getting through and there's still days, you know, I still am sore and trying to balance not doing too much too quickly.

Mm-hmm.

But I think still comparatively, you getting your body cut open is no joke.

No.

That really hard.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was really hard.

So, you know, I would, I would do a vaginal delivery 10 times over.

Even with, you know, the, the tearings not fun, of course, but I. I think it was still a much, it's been a much smoother recovery compared to my C-section.

Definitely.

Well, and I, I, I would love to, I dunno if I've ever asked anyone this, but I am assuming that when you're recovering from a C-section, you really can't push too hard.

You just can't, 'cause you've had major abdominal surgery, but with a vaginal delivery, I think you feel like maybe you can push harder, but you shouldn't.

Yeah, I think so.

And I think, you know, I think the tearing kind of plays into it too.

I've got a couple friends that just had babies and they didn't tear, and, you know, they're, they definitely bounced back a little bit quicker.

But yeah, I, you know, I do pretty well.

It's, it's just, it's, it's totally different, you know, it's not just your entire.

Abdomen, you know, all your muscles getting cut open.

Really, you know, if you can't lean forward, you can't like sit up.

I had to have so much assistance from my husband and, I can't imagine doing it when you have a toddler already.

It's a toddler, you know, you've got weight restrictions you can lift and so there's, there's definitely more restrictions with the c-section recovery, just given that it is a major abdominal surgery.

Yeah, I think trying to convince myself that, just to trust the process and, know that I'm, I'm getting there and I will, I will heal and the soreness will not last forever.

But it's, it's been, it's been very smooth overall, so I really can't complain.

Well, I'm so happy that you came and I'm so happy you're part of our community.

We absolutely love you and we've loved having you.

So I would let, like, what are some words of wisdom for these moms out there that are like, I really wanna have a vba.

I really wanna do this.

What are some tips you would say before, before we sign up?

Because I think Carter is done with the podcast.

I think he's done.

Yeah, no, I think my, like the mindset game is, is so, so important.

I think first of all, definitely working through whatever previous, maybe birth trauma that you have, if you have some from your C-section.

I know your course has a full section on that, which was really helpful to piece through.

So I think making sure you work through that is really important so that you can go in with a clear head space.

Mm-hmm.

And, and then just knowing your why.

If it's, you know, just because you want to, you know, redeem yourself not to like, prove anybody wrong, like make sure it's for you and, you know, just know the reasons behind why you're doing it.

And then just really take in.

All of the education.

And I think learning to really advocate, I think that was the hardest part for me.

Just trying to not be so passive and like really standing up and, and trusting that, you're calling the shots.

And really just kind of hone in on that and, and keep that, keep that mindset and the determination to, to do it if that's what you're kind of really set out to do because it's worth it.

I love that so much.

And so you would recommend the VBAC LAB

1000%?

Yes.

Yeah, no, I love it.

I thought it was fantastic.

I've periodically bopped around to different podcasts throughout my pregnancy and stuff.

Even just learning about other VBAC stuff and I, you know, there's, there's nothing like yours.

I 100% believe.

Believe that.

I think

it was awesome.

Yeah.

And like, and like Kelly said, like I start out the VBAC lab with us walking through your trauma and your triggers because we don't want to bring them into this birth.

This is a new baby, this is a new birth.

And if you bring all that heaviness and all that doubt and all that fear, it's going to affect your pregnancy and your journey.

Mm-hmm.

And so that's why I started out the VBAC lab.

I do have that.

Also in calm labor, confident birth for my moms who have already had a baby, maybe it wasn't a C-section, but it was trauma.

And then also for some of my students, because we can't control everything.

And so I want you guys to have a place to be able to process that because there's so many women that are walking around with years of birth trauma that they've never released.

And so that is just so important to me.

And in fact, I know, you know, I also do business coaching mainly for women in the, the motherhood space.

We just had an in-person retreat and my, I, you know, I have like 11 birth workers there, and then a couple like weird off, you know, I've got a mental health therapist and I've got a podcast services and then I have my financial strategist and she's my age.

And so, which I'm not gonna say what it is, but I'm not chicken and.

We're all talking birth stuff, of course.

'cause the majority of us are birth.

And one of the, the doulas was talking about some, things that she does with her clients after their birth to process trauma, to process this change in your body and.

My financial strategist client like starts crying and she's talking about how no one's ever talked to her about that.

There's so many women that are walking around with such heavy trauma from their birth experience and it's bs.

Like it's not good.

So just so you guys know, when you join my birth programs, this is why it's.

It's holistic.

Like all of you, I wanna work with you.

This is why I do my hangouts, because I don't want you to just buy my course.

And then like if you had just bought the course and not done the hangouts, do you feel like it would've been as powerful for you?

Not as much.

Like I think especially having some of those things come up during the pregnancy, like the aspirin discussion and, and some things like that, that were really weighing on me.

Mm-hmm.

Having the people to discuss it with and being able to discuss it with you and, and Allison and you know, the other girls during the hangouts, I think was really, really valuable.

Yeah, so, and that is why what's so different about me and a lot of other people who have birth classes are like, you're crazy.

That's so much.

But to me that's what sets me apart is that relational aspect and having access to me.

But anyway, we're gonna cut this short 'cause Carter probably needs to eat and my dogs have been very good you guys, so we're really proud of them.

I usually lock them up and today I do not.

But thank you so much for being here today.

I, I just so appreciate you.

Thank

you so

much

for

having me.

You're welcome.

Oh wait, one question.

What is one word you would say that describes your experience with the VBAC lab?

Like after taking it One

word.

Okay.

I love it.

That's the normal word most people say.

Well go take care of Carter.

Thank you for coming today.