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[00:00:00] Welcome to episode 11 of The Heart Chamber. I am your host, boots Knighton. On the program today is Chris Mole. Chris underwent a heart transplant from the University of Utah. Chris and I first met each other. Years and years ago when working for Teton Youth and Family Services in Jackson, Wyoming. It was so great to reconnect with him again over our hearts.
I'm so excited to share this episode with you, so let's get to it.
Track 1: Well, Chris, thanks for coming on the episode today of the Heart Chamber. Chris and I first met, gosh, at least 20 years ago when we were both working at Red Top Meadows in Wilson, Wyoming, which is a residential treatment facility for teenage boys. And since then, he has stayed in his, almost his same role, [00:01:00] and it's incredible to see all the changes that he has been a part of at Teton Youth and Family Services.
So thanks Chris for your service there. It's an incredible organization here in the Tetons. but I brought Chris on today to talk about his incredible heart journey. He is a heart warrior and his journey is a little different than most. And so Chris, I'm gonna let you just take it from here.
chris_moll: Yeah, sure. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. so yeah, for me, it all started, I mean, in hindsight it really started in about 2000 and, I noticed in the fall of that year that I noticed it particularly on a, on a fishing trip, you know, where you're hiking up and down a lot of steep hills. and I know fishing kind of sounds sedentary, but it's, it's not, this style of fishing is fairly athletic. then I, I'd get to [00:02:00] the top of, of some steep hills and I'd be really out of breath, like more so than usual, and it would take longer to recover you know, that was sort of hindsight. at the time I, you know, I sort of, you know, maybe I rationalized it or was in some denial that I was 50.
Now had maybe thrown on a little bit of weight and my kids were younger at the time, so I was busy and I wasn't exercising as much. I was like, yeah, I guess this kind of makes sense that I'm a little bit more outta shape than accustomed. however, over the next 3, 4, 5 months, um, that changed pretty dramatically. it got to the point that I couldn't walk up a flight of stairs in my house without needing to sit down and take a break. I remember vividly I couldn't walk across a parking lot, and I was like, Ooh, this isn't good. so I wound up, you know, going to my, My general [00:03:00] doctor, he did some blood work, listened to my heart, did an E K G, and was like, yeah, you better go to the cardiologist, like immediately
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
Chris did the EKGs show something at that time?
chris_moll: yeah, it showed, I had several arrhythmias going on with my heart,
Track 1: Okay.
chris_moll: and it just didn't sound right.
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: so I go, I went to Bill Mullen, the local cardiologist who I think the world of, he ordered, basically an, an echocardiogram of the heart. And, as it turned out, my heart was functioning at 6%
Track 1: so that the echo showed 6%.
chris_moll: Yeah.
Track 1: Wow.
chris_moll: nobody's heart at a hundred percent.
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: know, most people are at 70 to 75%. I think that's sort of in the normal range,
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: down to 6%.
Track 1: he hear a heart murmur?[00:04:00]
chris_moll: no, no
Track 1: Okay. Okay.
chris_moll: but I had some atrial fibrillation. and I also had, gosh, now I can't think of, it's another, it's a tachycardia.
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
was it vent, ventricular, tachycardia?
chris_moll: Yeah.
Track 1: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: and sort of plagued me throughout my stay. So really, I went back to a follow-up appointment and, Dr.
Mullin was essentially like, you're about a half a step away from going to Salt Lake. So I came home and reported the findings to my wife she immediately started plotting with Dr. Mullin. And I was admitted to the hospital the following morning, which was,
Febu St. John's,
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: February 17, 2018. And I was only admitted really for the facts so that they could prep me for a flight down to Salt Lake.
Track 1: Okay.
chris_moll: I remember [00:05:00] vividly there was a really significant winter storm going on, so I, I think I spent maybe two nights, at St. John's and then was transported down to the University of Utah.
Track 1: So while you were at St. John's, what did they do for you?
chris_moll: Not much, basically stabilized
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: got me on a bunch of diuretics because my heart wasn't pumping very well. My body was maintaining a lot of fluids, they were, I think, you know, at the time they were just trying to move those fluids out of me.
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: it turned out, my kidneys weren't working great at the time either.
Track 1: Yeah.
Isn't that interesting how the two are so dependent upon each other? They're, they're almost like their own, their own team. so,
chris_moll: Um, did you run into kidney issues?
Track 1: uh, surprisingly no, surprisingly no. Um, but I still have issues with fluid retention and have to take a diuretic off and on. [00:06:00] It's, it's not comfortable when it builds up on you.
before we fly to Salt Lake with you,
chris_moll: Yeah.
Track 1: walk me through just preparing even to go to the hospital. Like even just, what was it like to hear from the cardiologist, you know, that this is, this is not heading in the right direction.
chris_moll: you know, it was, I'm not gonna call it a slap in the face. you know, I think much as I wanted to deny how serious things were, I knew in the back of my head, and it was, I think a combination of a relief okay, we need to deal with this, let's move forward because I'm not on a good track. but it was, you know, it was also pretty scary, of the unknown of. You know, at that point we really had no idea what was wrong.
Track 1: So even, even the cardiologist was like, I don't know what's wrong, but we've gotta get you to Salt Lake.
chris_moll: absolutely. as it turns
Track 1: Mm.
chris_moll: for about [00:07:00] a month leading up to this, I was, I was fairly sick. I had a virus that I just couldn't seem to kick. I just felt crummy. so at the time, Dr. theory was that the virus had attacked my heart. and that was, that's what had caused it to go into such decline. Specifically over the previous month. said he had had another patient who was their mid to late thirties who had the same exact thing happen. So we're all sort of like, okay, well go down there. We're gonna get your heart strung again. You're gonna get over this virus and you'll move on. as it turns out, I think the virus is probably what put my heart into, of an overdrive of decline. but I had, I got down there and they're trying to figure it out, they offered to do genetic testing. So we jumped on
And [00:08:00] as it turns out that I really only later learned, following my transplant that I had a genetic disorder.
Track 1: Mm-hmm. . Wow. And, okay, so let, we ha obviously listeners, we have a lot to unpack. He just gave away the ending . Spoiler alert. He lives thankfully, but, so, okay. You fly to Salt Lake. I've always wanted to know what is it like to be on, and I hope I never find out , but what is it like to be on a, on a medical flight from Jackson, Wyoming to Salt Lake City, Utah.
chris_moll: Well, I've gotten to enjoy a couple of them.
Track 1: Oh, lucky you.
chris_moll: yeah, and I can, I'll talk about that and I'll talk about the second one in a
Track 1: Okay. Golly.
chris_moll: it wasn't nearly as sort of exciting as I thought it was gonna be. you know, basically what happens is, it's a fixed wing aircraft, that flies up from salt. I believe there's one based in Jackson now. [00:09:00] but at the time there was not, flies up from Salt Lake. So initially it couldn't get here because of winter storms. So you just wait, wait, wait, wait. They get the word that they're taking off. It's about a 45 minute flight. you get word that they're taking off and then basically you get packaged up in the hospital, wheeled into the back of an ambulance and driven up to the airport and loaded into, a fixed wing aircraft. it's, you know, it's not so glamorous that it's like a private jet. It's a prop plane.
Track 1: You don't get like warm nuts and a hot towel and a foot rub, none of that. Okay.
chris_moll: there was no champagne, no mimosas, no nothing. and basically a nurse sits with you in the back of the plane and makes sure you're comfortable. Fly your 45 minutes down to Salt Lake, get loaded into another ambulance, and then you arrive at the University of Utah.
Track 1: Okay Just like that. Wow. [00:10:00] Of course, in the back of my mind, having been through my own expensive medical endeavors, I'm like, I hope he has insurance. I hope he has insurance, which I know you do, but Yes. Oh my gosh. So yeah, you get to Salt Lake.
chris_moll: Get to salt. Yeah. And, um, you know, fortunately the local cardiologist, is good friends with the head of the team down there, Dr. Fang, Dr. James Fang, who I think the world of. And, you know, immediately I was greeted by, they have an entire heart failure team. it's a team of sort of rotating doctors, nurses, everybody you can imagine.
It's also a teaching hospital, so there are a lot of residents there as well.
you know, I'm greeted by like a team of 12 and sort of was, I was really overwhelmed. Um, and they were just basically, you know, grilling me on my entire life.
and that's how it [00:11:00] started.
Track 1: Okay. So it's now been, let's see if I'm doing the math right, like thr okay. You were in the hospital for two nights in, in Jackson. . And so now we're on day three and
chris_moll: maybe one
Track 1: maybe one one
chris_moll: have a great memory
Track 1: that, that, you know? Fair enough. We'll, we'll give you a pass on that, but I, I, I just know this journey is long, so, okay, we're now in Salt Lake.
You're greeted by a heart failure team. That's incredible. You must have just immediately felt like you were in such great hands. But I, I just keep going back to, like I said, I, I've had the, I had the honor of knowing you, you know, years ago, bridge, we've just recently reconnected and you've just been this larger than life, Chris Mole in my mind.
And now your heart is failing you. And like you said, it was a slap in the face. What are you thinking now that you're in Utah and you're greeted by this huge team, you've just flown on a plane, [00:12:00] like how were you doing mentally and emotionally at this point? Do you remember?
chris_moll: I do remember The way I've always kind of operated is okay a problem in front of me look at the problem let's figure it out how do we best get to the other side
Track 1: That's the Chris. I know . That's what I remember about working with you, so that doesn't surprise me.
chris_moll: so I I sort of break my time up in Utah into about two week segments
I should say at the ho at the hospital
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: frankly in the first 10 days to two weeks really couldn't figure out was wrong with me or how to address it physically I felt really tired you know I The physical therapist would come around and you know I'd go for walks with him up and down the hall every day which was great But I just felt tired all the time So [00:13:00] I was I was pretty good for the first few days you know really with the hopes of okay I'm I'm with these fantastic physicians and they're gonna figure out what's wrong with me and I'm gonna move on but after five after let's call it a week or so they really couldn't figure out what was going on how to fix it and then you know what concepts of such as well your heart is failing we need to figure out how to make it work You know I went through a ton of tests trying to figure out if we could use some medical devices to make my heart function better And whatever reasons and I don't remember the exact reasons um they weren't gonna work for me So at about the two week mark they determined that what I really needed was a heart transplant
Track 1: Wow. So [00:14:00] before we dive into that, those two weeks leading up to determining you needed a heart transplant, what test did they run while you were in the hospital? Do you
chris_moll: can't rem I can't I mean I remember getting heart an MRI of my heart
know a lot of Echocardiograms
Track 1: Yeah,
chris_moll: a lot of blood work
Track 1: yeah,
chris_moll: and yeah to be honest the ex the exact tests that they were doing are sort of a blur
Track 1: yeah. No, that's fair. Oh, okay. And then at what point did they do the genetic testing?
chris_moll: So they did the genetic testing pretty early on
but it took I believe it took about eight weeks for the genetic testing to actually come back
Track 1: Oh I wonder why. Uh, it always takes so long for that. so you never found out about the mutation that you later learned you had until [00:15:00] well after. Because w when
chris_moll: I was discharged Yeah
Track 1: okay, and we'll get to the mutation in a minute. Let's go in chronological order here. So at two weeks they come to you and they're like, Chris, you need a heart transplant.
chris_moll: Yep
Track 1: Wow.
chris_moll: So at that point you know I'm like okay great you know
Track 1: Okay, great. . But you, you, you just probably wanted to feel better. You were like, I'm gonna do, you've
chris_moll: feel
Track 1: your dad, your husband.
chris_moll: be able to breathe
Track 1: Yeah. You, you wanted to Yeah. Basic life stuff.
chris_moll: Yeah
so you know then they lined out what that would really look like and and what it means You know their protocol was once you're discharged from the hospital you have to stay in Salt Lake City for six months you know you're gonna have to take medication for the rest of your life this is the protocol that you're signing on to
Track 1: [00:16:00] Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: And you know there were some other conditions that came along with it know basically for the first six months you're not gonna drink alcohol you're not gonna use illicit drugs you're gonna see a mental health therapist you know at this point I'm like I'm all in
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: let's get the process rolling
so Basically in order to there's my understanding is there's two different lists for transplants One there's one list for people that external medical devices will help their heart pump for you know a year or two they can wait a little bit longer Then there's a list for people that are not gonna make it that long you know it was explained to me by one of the doctors that they could basically keep me alive for about two months with their medications so the heart team then had to have a big meeting to see[00:17:00] if they actually wanted to put me on this basically on on the immediate list
fortunately the team voted to put me on that
Track 1: Wow.
chris_moll: that vote occurred Yeah
Track 1: I am just like picturing a whole bunch of white coats in a room. being like raising their hand. Hey. Does he, does he get, uh,
chris_moll: Does he
I
Track 1: Yes. . I mean, yeah. I almost didn't wanna say that, but yes.
chris_moll: that yeah I mean that's the grim reality of it and I mean I could I probably shouldn't but I could talk about that process for a little while
Track 1: we can talk, we can make this as detailed as you want, Chris, like as much as you want to share. I mean, the listeners who are,
chris_moll: I probably don't wanna talk about it because
could be offensive
Track 1: Okay.
chris_moll: because I I have some I have some strong opinions about
Track 1: Okay.
chris_moll: don't particularly wanna share in a public forum so once I [00:18:00] once they voted to put me on the list then essentially I had to go through lots of medical testing to make sure that I was otherwise healthy enough to maximize the generous donation of a heart colonoscopy Every cancer test you can imagine uh I mean know
Track 1: So you're still in the hospital?
chris_moll: protocol for the testing
Track 1: Yeah. You're still in the hospital. And the,
chris_moll: entering
Track 1: sorry I interrupted you, but like I just a picture you with a schedule of like all these tests each day just to like get you ready.
chris_moll: just to get me so I can actually go on the list you know once we got through all those tests which was over a period of a few days I passed and I wound up on the transplant list and that's sort of enters what I call the the middle [00:19:00] two weeks the middle third of my hospital stay So I was on the transplant list for about I think it was almost exactly two weeks and that was difficult it was a relief that I was on the list and it really sort of gave me something to look forward to but then I got impatient and I think one of the Physically like was sort of getting excited you know like I was doing I was going for a lot of walks around the hospital and starting to actually feel a little bit stronger even though my heart was basically the same But I had sort of come out of that tired period of just needing to rest and I was feeling motivated and sort of in the back of my mind I was thinking okay well the stronger I can be going into this better off I'll be on the other end and I know you know for me sort of being athletic has been what I do my whole life So [00:20:00] it's it was sort of a big mental shift of like okay well I'm going for 10 minute walks and that's gonna help me on the other side But sure I'll I'll do what it takes It's what I can do right now
But then you know so after about a week goes by and I s I was starting to get impatient and I and I shouldn't be you know and I remember I remember thinking know I'd look out the window of my my hospital room and it's snowing out you would have these sort of dark thoughts of well it's snowing out Maybe somebody will get in a car crash tonight and I'll get a heart And like and it was like what the f are you thinking Like you're wishing ill on other people Hey hey And you know it's just terrible thinking And I remember vividly talking to one of the nurses about it I was like I need to talk to somebody about this Is this normal and they're like oddly enough this is completely normal [00:21:00] because your survival instinct is so strong But I didn't like thinking that way it really bothered me I mean I there wasn't much I could do about it obviously
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: while you're you know sitting around basically waiting for an organ to save your own life there has to be tragedy on somebody else's side And that was really hard for me to digest I'm you know do I deserve this and that was hard was a really hard emotional part of it
Track 1: I can only imagine. Yeah. I'm just, it makes sense that you would think all of that. I mean, yeah. You so desperately wanna live yet, you know, it hinges on a death, and that is the ultimate and dialectic thinking.
chris_moll: Yeah it really is
Track 1: Mm-hmm. , can't think of anything more intense than that.
chris_moll: Yeah And so yeah You know and you basically don't have a lot of outlets to [00:22:00] sort of emotionally process that because you're just a hospital bed you know typically for me is a place where I can work out a lot of my thoughts and being active and it it sort it helps maybe compartmentalize isn't the right phrase it's always helped me sort things out Like even when I was in grad school and had a difficult paper to write could think most clearly when I was being active So now the fact that I'm just being sedentary really allowed my places my brain to go places that I didn't like a whole lot
Track 1: Yeah, it doesn't sound comfortable at all. while you're also waiting, you have a wife, a family, your brother. What did they do? Were they just kind of taking turns coming down? And just for listeners who maybe aren't familiar with our area, where Chris was compared to his house is about a five hour drive, give or take with [00:23:00] weather.
So
chris_moll: the in the winter
Track 1: in the winter. Right. And we we're just a very tight-knit community. Chris has been around for a long time. He's beloved in the community. So help me understand your, before we get to the transplant piece, help me understand your support network,
chris_moll: Yeah absolutely
Track 1: because this had to be hard on them.
chris_moll: really really hard so if we think back to when I first got to Utah and the timing was really sort of uncanny my wife's parents were actually en route to Seattle to visit my brother-in-law and his family ironically my brother-in-law is a cardiologist a top-notch cardiologist at the University of Washington so I'm getting ready to go to the hospital My wife calls her parents realizing that she's gonna need some help they were actually [00:24:00] in Salt Lake City in Route two Seattle and they were able to change their flight on the spot and were able to come to Jackson to help with the kids at the time let's see my kids were in and seventh grade so they weren't really capable of being independent so their grandparents were super helpful during that initial phase
Track 1: Wow, is fortunate.
chris_moll: realized yeah once we realized this was not gonna be a couple day visit to the University of Utah Hospital we've sort of started making alternate plans you know my wife has a she works for herself as an attorney but she still had work to do my kids had school so it sort of became this I think exactly like you said a rotation I'm lucky enough that my brother lives here um and we're [00:25:00] unbelievably close they would sort of take turns coming down We were trying to as hard as it was for the kids let's keep 'em in school Let's keep 'em in the sports that they're doing because it's a really good distraction so yeah it became this rotation of people coming down My brother my wife The kids would come down on weekends friends would come down Maybe friends would give the kids a ride home They could stay with some friends and that's sort of how it worked
Track 1: Sounds like the Jackson community,
chris_moll: real yeah over that first Four weeks that I was in the hospital the community was incredible and you know I good friends would come down and see me and yeah so that's how it worked It it really took a lot of help from a lot of friends and and everybody was just incredible to us
Track 1: Hmm. I'm really glad to hear that. And I'm also, like I just said, I'm not surprised. I'm so grateful for that. So, okay, so you're getting, [00:26:00] you're getting, let's go back to the hospital. You're, you're inpatient, you're, you're having uncomfortable thoughts, which sound completely normal. your body's in a survival instinct and, and you're just waiting.
You're in the waiting game,
chris_moll: Yep
Track 1: and then you get the news.
chris_moll: Yeah so that Sort of concludes that second two week period that I was in the hospital
Track 1: I.
chris_moll: know much of my hospital stay is is sort of a blur which it it was a blur for whatever reason but I vividly recall you know every morning the the team would make rounds the medical team and they walked in I believe it was Saturday March 17th and they walked in that morning and they said they had a new heart for me and that I would be having a transplant that evening I'm like fantastic however it gets a slightly [00:27:00] more logistically complicated This was uh one of the rotations where I think my brother was down in Salt Lake at the time and my wife was at home and she was actually staying with was staying over with some friends in Victor because my youngest daughter had qualified the regional championships in ski racing which was taking place that weekend which we obviously we wanted her to ski in cause she worked really hard to qualify for that she had to you know we call my wife and she's like what You're getting a heart tonight yep yep It's real it's happening so she had to run up to Grand Targe and pick up my daughter Who Funny enough was disappointed that she couldn't race
Track 1: But at the time, what was her age?
chris_moll: Well she was in um she was in
Track 1: [00:28:00] Fifth grade? Yeah. I mean, that's age appropriate, right? Like
chris_moll: a hundred percent and you know after the fact she was also really able to talk about how much she hated seeing me in the hospital which and I get she to this day she loves ski racing that's what she does she's a ski racer and she wanted to ski in this race nonetheless she didn't ski in the race and yeah I remember My in-laws came My brother-in-law flew in from Seattle and yeah you know chronologically they said you know we are we're gonna do the surgery this evening And I remember sort of at about three o'clock in the afternoon I was like all right I've thought about this enough now Like maybe you should have told me about an hour before because now I want this to happen Like immediately Like I'm [00:29:00] tired of sitting around and waiting Let's do this
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: and yeah You know I
Track 1: Chris, if I can interrupt, what, what were you thinking about? Like what, during, when you, you just said, I've thought about this enough. I mean, I read into that maybe you were, your, your mind was going in a lot of different directions. I mean, what is it like knowing it's about to happen?
chris_moll: Well so right there's gonna be there's a possibility of a couple outcomes
one being things head terribly south and you don't make it through the surgery so there was sort of that but at the time um you know of course I thought about that but I sort of concluded that well that's sort of outta my hands that's probably not really constructive for me to focus on that for me the focus then became what am I gonna do What are my goals and what am I gonna do I [00:30:00] start to recover from this surgery Which
Track 1: Ooh, I that.
chris_moll: helpful Way to think
so it would be great if you could really control how your mind works but you can't as much as we might try our mind is our mind Um so Sure You know I definitely had those thoughts of like well if I expire tonight then that's what happens Like I can't do that me it was much more helpful to look forward and what I'm gonna do with this incredible gift
Track 1: Well, Chris, if, if I may, I also think, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you just naturally tend towards the positive anyway. Like that's just a skillset you have.
chris_moll: I try
Track 1: And
just thinking about the listeners here. Not everyone has that skillset, and that's okay. You know, it's something you can always strive for. but I just wanna normalize for anyone listening that is facing the same [00:31:00] situation or any heart surgery, it's, it's normal to have like the range of thoughts, but I can't agree more, Chris, that the more you can focus on afterwards, it's just such powerful medicine that can't be put in a bottle.
It can't be written on a script.
chris_moll: I agree And you know perhaps a little bit of the backstory to that the treatment center that we work at and in my work
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: licensed therapist one of our focuses the kids that we treated was to be strength-based Let's focus on what a kid is doing well versus what are the behaviors and what is the thinking patterns That they're not doing well Because I think in life it's much easier to build upon things that we do well versus the things that we struggle with
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: If we focus on what we do well that can hopefully roll into [00:32:00] our struggles be able to reframe the struggles in a from a different perspective So that's all my training in basically my my career since I've been you know 21 22 years old has always been strength-based So don't know if you know I think back to maybe before was I always strength-based I have no idea Um but I think I embraced the ideals of the program that we worked at which is really
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: So to me that was sort of natural fit of I can look back on the past but I'm I can't change anything about the past I can learn from it and how am I gonna apply that moving forward Which as I just said for me thinking about how I'm gonna move forward post-transplant much more helpful thinking and and was much better for my own mental health
Track 1: So wise, and I mean, when I went through my heart surgery, [00:33:00] I would've loved to have heard those words prior. So helpful from Yeah. Another heart friend. and just real quickly, when I went into my heart surgery, I slightly different but similar approach. I pictured the, the surgeon and the nurses and the helpers in the room all having a really good day.
And, I'm, I'm not religious, but I, I'm spiritual, I believe in, you know, higher beings and I just pictured the room filled with. Helper guides and angels. And I started focusing also on what could I do afterwards once I got the remodel of my heart. I call it the heart remodel
chris_moll: Yeah I like that
Track 1: but it, it's normal to have, uh, both though I did wonder what, you know, if I did, did not wake up, was I happy with how my life went. And the only two regrets I had was I hadn't skied enough and I hadn't published my book
chris_moll: Yeah
Track 1: I was at peace, everything.
chris_moll: [00:34:00] well it's funny you talk about skiing cuz I vividly remember getting wheeled into the operating room And I think it was the anesthesiologist you know we're just sort of late I'm laying there waiting for things to happen and I strike up a conversation turns out the anesthesiologist lived up in Park City and he was a huge skier so you know we're talking about powder skiing and mountain biking and how great the trails are up in Park City And it it sort of took the edge off because of course there's anxiety you know anytime I think you're gonna go under general anesthesia there's a little bit of anxiety sort of about what's gonna happen with that But not to mention I was gonna get an entirely new organ
Track 1: This is just such a trip.
chris_moll: I rem Yeah So I remember you know just sort of going into it and just sort of having an a little bit of an easier feeling talking with this man about things that we both loved And he was like okay this guy's on my team He knows what I'm talking about
Track 1: [00:35:00] and then it was probably lights out.
chris_moll: Yeah Then it was lights out
Track 1: for how long? How long was the surgery?
chris_moll: they said the surgery was about six hours which of course I know nothing
Track 1: thankfully.
chris_moll: in hindsight I you know I was talking to my wife and my family I'm like well what did you guys do during this six hours and they were like well they told us there's nothing we can do here and we should probably go do something to try and You know get a little sidetracked so they went back to the hotel and went swimming and took a hot tub and had a nice dinner but I suppose it was probably around midnight or 1:00 AM by the time my surgery was complete
Track 1: you
chris_moll: you know I oddly enough what the allegedly they had me up walking after surgery obviously with a lot of assistance and at some point over the next couple days the one [00:36:00] thing I can vividly remember is Dr Mora Lafa was down scene She's a local ob good friends of ours and she was down there in Seeing me this is my first memory Um she's like videoing me walking and she says Chris say something Yeah I'm sure I'm all groggy And I was just and I just responded something That was my response And then dang And that is like the first thing I remember
Track 1: So you don't remember waking up?
chris_moll: no
Track 1: Okay.
chris_moll: I know I was intubated for a couple days and they had me had a morphine pump I remember at one point being like well if I'm gonna be compromised And I'm on morphine I'm gonna enjoy this somehow I think I asked my wife to put my headphones on the ones that I'm wearing now cuz some friends of mine brought these to me in the hospital so I could listen to music I said put my headphones on and put some [00:37:00] 1977 Grateful Dead on And then I remember hitting the morphine pump and just going to outer space that is sort of um told which I'm not surprised about this I was not a good patient when I was Probably not a good patient to begin with but apparently I really did not like being intubated and they just got to the point that they were tired of wrestling me and they were like all right let's just rip this thing out And they called it a rodeo extubation They're like this isn't gonna go smooth but it's gonna be better in a minute And they just basically held me down and ripped the thing outta my throat
Track 1: The intubation was the worst part for me, and I w I remember waking up and I was intubated and they had my hands tied to the railings and I w I I immediately. A reaction to the anesthesia. And I knew I was gonna throw up, [00:38:00] but I had this thing and
chris_moll: Yeah
Track 1: I couldn't say anything, but I was so terrified I was gonna asphyxiate on the vomit and so I just kept flipping off my surgeon, my nurses, my husband, cuz it was the only way I knew how to communicate.
And they just thought I was being a jerk. But I was like, no, I was trying to tell you something was wrong. And I just knew
chris_moll: like I have I have issues here
Track 1: the moment they took it out, I just, yeah, it just went everywhere. . Oh my gosh. All right. So you're, so now they've, they've taken it out the tube out and, but you're likely, probably still on morphine, but and walking,
chris_moll: I've
Track 1: you're saying something.
chris_moll: Something Yeah
Track 1: Oh my gosh, Chris.
chris_moll: So that
Track 1: you
chris_moll: you know
the I
Track 1: go
chris_moll: few days You know I have
Track 1: Yeah,
chris_moll: idea sort of what transpired
Track 1: that makes sense. and you know,
chris_moll: but [00:39:00] I remember
Track 1: you were on the heart and lung machine too, and the anesthesia, and that affects your memory. But yeah, go ahead,
chris_moll: Well and I'm sure they sedated the shit out of me while I was intubated cuz I know I I did not handle that well just knowing my personality and sort of my anti-authoritarian attitude I I can only imagine I was a handful but sort of I remember the first thing I really thought sort of coming out of that haze was that I can and sort of what a relief that was that I wasn't struggling to breathe or feeling like I was gonna pass out
Track 1: Wow,
chris_moll: couldn't get a good breath
Track 1: you knew immediately.
chris_moll: I knew immediately
Track 1: Ugh.
chris_moll: And then you know sort of the next week you know I remember walking a bunch and I'm still in the I C U at this point but they took me outside It was I remember it was sort of a warm sunny day and I was like [00:40:00] is there any way you guys can take me outside I would really like that and they loaded me up with piles of blankets and a wheelchair and me outside for a while and that that was incredible know and at this point my kidneys were still not doing So they got me on some dialysis which really got the fluid out of me in a hurry one of my sort of vivid memories is the dialysis machine sort of stopped working
Track 1: Oh God.
chris_moll: was a there there was a lot of hustle going on and I'm just sort of laying there clueless And you know my wife is there sort eyeballing everything and she's like yeah that was the only time they really moved quickly your care is when the dialysis machine stopped working
Track 1: Wow. Wow.
chris_moll: Yeah
Track 1: I, I've heard about dialysis and if the kidneys aren't working, it can also, [00:41:00] from what I've heard, and correct me if I'm wrong, it can also kind of cloud your memory and your thinking.
Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: but then I remember I got off dialysis and for whatever reason at this point food did not taste good to me Like any sort of like Turkey sandwich like it just tasted like absolute garbage but the one thing I really did eat a lot of was fruit Fruit and yogurt tasted great to me But at this you know now we're you know call it a week out they're like you need to start eating or you're getting a feeding tube So I essentially started force feeding myself Uh like I don't want a I don't want a feeding tube
I want
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: want less inside of me another great memory I had um is I was still in the I C U I was sort of at the point where they wanted me to get out of the I C U but they didn't have a bed available I think it was on [00:42:00] the fourth floor it was still cardiac care but it was not I icu and I was like you know can I go outside for another breath of fresh air And They sent like this young nurse in I'm not sure if he knew any better but he was like all right dude get dressed We're going outside And instead of a wheelchair he walked me outside like down several flights of stairs I was like this is cool I feel like I'm making progress here stood outside for a little while till I got cold and then coming back inside and having to walk up call it two flights of stairs two two floors it sort of hit me I was like Ooh this recovery is gonna be brutal I was dragging my butt up those stairs was like okay but I made it I can do this but it was sort of like you're starting from scratch it was a a real reminder that like you got some work [00:43:00] to do here
Track 1: Well, yeah. I mean, if you think about it, how many weeks now had it been since you had really used your legs for more than just a walk down the hallway.
chris_moll: Other than walking around the hallways It had been a while
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: and at this point it's know let's call it roughly five five and a half weeks in the hospital
Track 1: And like you said, you hadn't been able to breathe very well. I'm not a doctor here. But if your heart wasn't working, if, if you know, it was only 6% . , your lungs probably had to go through a whole new learning. Well, first of all, it's working with a new teammate, right? It's got a new team member, . So your body is like trying to get to know your new heart and plus, you know, the whole use it or lose it thing.
Your legs probably were just atrophied. Oh my gosh. That's just a lot. Yeah.
chris_moll: Yeah Yeah And you know like you know this is you know a lot of my life before that was skiing [00:44:00] the back country you know being able to ski between six 8,000 10,000 feet a day and then all of a sudden that 10,000 feet is climbing two sets of stairs
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: You know my body had sort of that similar reaction to being that tired And I was holy crap I need a knack And that was exhausting
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: You know and then sort of chronologically I finally got out of the cardiac I C U and into the regular ward I really didn't like being in the I C U basically your feet were not allowed to touch the floor unless there was a nurse there to assist you you know so if you let your mind wander a little bit any sort of humility that I had with my body and body functions was completely
Track 1: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: care at that
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: so being able to move into a room where I could get up and walk around [00:45:00] on my own and not have to call the nurses I could take a shower That was a huge step forward for me emotionally
Track 1: Well, you had autonomy again.
chris_moll: And I'm yeah I'm a fiercely independent
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: so having that autonomy for me just to be able to get out of the bed and go sit on the couch because that's what I felt like doing w felt wildly successful
Track 1: and it's an important step cuz you have to be able to do that at home. There's all these steps that while in the hospital you have to be able to prove you can do all these different things so they can let you go.
chris_moll: Yep Exactly and then I remember so I was sort of I was in that ward for a few days and one of the younger doctors came in I was like listen I'm re I need to get out of the hospital Can we make a plan for me going home and I probably pushed a little bit and he was like I fully support that And I went home that day
Track 1: [00:46:00] Now when you say home
chris_moll: They dis well they discharged me
Track 1: right? You didn't go to Jackson cuz you had to stay close.
chris_moll: no
Track 1: Yeah.
chris_moll: so which sort of triggered off another rodeo of wife knew it was coming and she knew we had to stay down there And my wife and kids were staying in a hotel and within hour she found us a place to live for a couple weeks which was amazing and we I was able to be discharged and to this spot we had to figure out more of a permanent solution And then are we gonna do with the kids at that point kids said they wanted to move down to Salt Lake so we can all be together and that they would finish out the school year down there which they did and yeah
Track 1: That's incredible that your kids were willing to do that. I mean, at such formative times in their lives [00:47:00] that's so impactful.
chris_moll: and yeah so at the time um now we moved into soccer season my youngest daughter didn't wanna miss soccer games with her team so And you know my wife is just incredible lined it up so that she could practice with a team down in Salt Lake And then and for people who don't know the geography our we don't really have any quote unquote home soccer games The closest we would travel for a games in Jackson it's two and a half hours like down to Pocatello Idaho we'd play in Boise and Salt Lake we were able to work at the she never missed a game with her team
Track 1: Wow. So she practiced in Salt Lake, but played for the Jackson team.
chris_moll: Yep
Track 1: That's incredible.
chris_moll: again lots of help from
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: if they were playing in Boise friends wife would take her up to Pocatello which is about halfway They'd meet in Boise then do that again at the end of [00:48:00] the
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: we'd get her a one way flight to Boise I'm lucky enough to have a good friend that lives in Boise and he would pick her up at the airport and then get her to the soccer games so just trying as hard as possible to keep our lives as normal as as possible for the kids while I was recovering from my transplant And then sort of once the school year ended So they were really down there for about a quarter and at this point you know it seemed I was getting stronger I my mental functioning was coming back once the summer hit my wife and kids really started going back to Jackson more and more full-time and I was like listen I'm fine You guys don't need to be down here go back go home but they would you know still come back and forth And um you know I had agreed that I was gonna stay in Salt Lake for six months which I did I maybe snuck a couple trips in home
Track 1: we won't tell
chris_moll: I would [00:49:00] no but nonetheless I was was pretty good
Track 1: I was just gonna ask, what was that six months like for you? What did that entail? As far as like dealing, you know, I'm, I'm suspecting blood work and more testing and cardiac rehab.
chris_moll: Yeah so well there were a couple pieces of it one so initially think it started the first month It was every week Um I would go in I would go and have a cardiac where they would in through my neck and in down the artery they would they were actually able to go in and take little snippets of my new heart and do biopsies on him to see if I was demonstrating any signs of rejection so I think for the first month that was every week Then after that I think it went to every two weeks for the next month And then it went to once [00:50:00] a month and then every other month the way out to every six months and now it's once a year and then yeah it was blood work every week and I think pretty quickly I started with cardiac rehab as
Track 1: Mm-hmm. . What was that like getting that started?
chris_moll: uh I remember the first sort of where they were establishing a baseline you know sort of in my mind I'm like I'm gonna show these bitches What's up And I just
Track 1: instead they showed you what's up?
chris_moll: it was just an a was an absolute beat down
Track 1: You were thinking you were bringing your A game, but it was more like your Z game,
chris_moll: Yeah I'm not even sure I brought a game think I went to 30 sessions but by the end I was apparently I had set the record for the most recovery from my
Track 1: that does not surprise me.
chris_moll: I was pretty motivated the other thing which[00:51:00] I like to talk about So I couldn't once I was discharged I couldn't drive for six weeks basically because they needed my sternum to heal up in case I was in like a head-on car crash Um it would be bad if I broke my sternum obviously so I remember going to the doctor's at about six months and not six at about six weeks post-transplant and I was like you know what do I have to do to get clearance to drive and they're like well you a surgeon needs to see you I was like okay well one in here cuz I'm ready to start driving I'm ready for some independence here so miraculously there happened to be a surgeon around and he came in and he Thumped on my chest a bit and he is like I think you're good I'm like okay I'm good I was like what do you think about me riding a bike he was like don't see why not You know as long as you're careful that sound good to me So I took that as I can go [00:52:00] mountain biking which I which I did so yeah I was riding a mountain bike six weeks after my transplant I tried to be smart about it I went out and bought like one of those big downhill like like the people wear for downhill mountain biking like a big chest protector and that all sorts of pads and I checked in I knew that if I talked to my team at the University of Utah idea was gonna be quickly shot down So I didn't really wanna run it by them I ran it by my brother-in-law and he was like you know I don't think that's a bad idea he's like you need to be careful And he is like I'd recommend keeping your heart rate I think it was under one 30 so I quit myself with two heart rate monitors this padding and I went mountain biking I'm vividly remember the ride Um you know I took it super slow and on any sort of downhill and I [00:53:00] remember having to stop a lot to keep my heart rate under one 30 which is just fine but I made it about a mile and a half and I was white
Track 1: But you made it a mile and a half. That's incredible.
chris_moll: made it a mile and a half And I remember that being like okay I'm gonna get through this I can do this
Track 1: it.
chris_moll: I need to do this for my mental health basically
Track 1: I'm also just hearing hope, right? Like. because I'm just, I'm just reflecting back to like when you initially flew down there and all the testing and they didn't know what was wrong and then the, and then they were like, so you need a new heart. So then you're waiting for it, and then now six weeks post transplant, you are mountain biking and you made it a mile and a half after your old heart was only at 6%.
This is incredible, Chris.
chris_moll: yeah and you know another sort of part that [00:54:00] I wanted to touch on my mental health was sort of up and down there as during this time and I was doing some pretty extensive therapists or pretty extensive therapy With a guy that I got hooked up with down in Salt Lake who was pretty incredible because you know all this wasn't smooth for me from sort of a thinking standpoint or glaringly Like I remember at some point had mentioned that I'm a fiercely independent person At some point like this whole process to me I I really started to feel like a prisoner that everybody was watching my every move and and judging me and people that would come down and visit her like mothering me and overprotecting me I'm like everybody can just get the f outta my grill you know I I'm Very appreciative of everything that I was doing at this point after you know essentially two months of just being hovered [00:55:00] over left and right I needed some
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: and I remember vividly my therapist was like and I was like I need to talk about this with my therapist Cuz I was I was not being nice to people I was struggling emotionally and he's like you know I think you are really suffering from some medical trauma And in all my training in in my work and my life had never really thought about medical trauma I was associated with sexual assault abuse things like that And I had never really applying medical trauma to my own life and I remember we did He you know I remember him asking are you open to doing some EMDR to think about this And EMDR eye movement um desensitization reprocessing which is a really effective form of trauma treatment and I remember after that one session my whole entire [00:56:00] perspective changed
and it was incredibly uplifting I I sort of cause I sort of fell into that victim role essentially and it didn't it wasn't sitting well with me and I'm so glad that I was able to bring it up with my therapist and that we continue to work through that and that was a really pivotal moment in in my recovery Cause I think oftentimes you know you think about you know whether it was your heart issue or a transplant or What whatever medical condition people might be going through I think the big thing that people focus on is really the physical recovery from it And we don't pay enough attention to the mental health aspect of the recovery and and sort of what that experience does to your overall being and that was a huge moment for me
Track 1: I am so glad you went there with that, Chris. Thank you. And you know, uh, in episode five I interviewed Cassie Fuller, which is my physical [00:57:00] therapist, and we talk a lot about the mental health aspects of heart surgery, and we talk about E M D R. I am a huge fan of emdr and it's what has kept me sane through all of my heart struggles.
So how many EMDR sessions have you done?
chris_moll: I had probably done Really only seven or eight in at least for me it happened pretty fast and you know I think sort of what what what your lead-in question was what was that six months like so sort of overall think all with the exception of about month five to six cuz at that point I was over
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: I was ready to go home it was really a a good thing for me because I was able to establish new lifestyle patterns sort of without being in my old stomping grounds of Jackson I was able to put myself on a [00:58:00] healthier trajectory sort And not that there's pressures I think you feel sort of pressures whether they're real or not but I was able to sort of establish that new lifestyle for myself before returning back to my home
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: Which in you know in talking to the medical team they've since changed that protocol that now you really only have to stay in there three months I hindsight I was really thankful that it was six cause I think it was better for me overall
Track 1: That's a powerful reflection. You mentioned the genetic
chris_moll: that time
Track 1: Oh, sorry.
chris_moll: yeah
Track 1: No, you go first. You go first.
chris_moll: during during that time as I was getting stronger and stronger I was going up to Park City and mountain biking all the time you know kind I was enjoying what I was doing there was also an element of frustration that I wasn't getting stronger faster which I know is sort of that type two mindset [00:59:00] of I have to be better I have to be better and every once in a while then you're able to take a step back and be like okay is where I came from This is where I'm at I'm doing pretty good
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: should just be happy that I'm out riding my bike Like you're up to five and a half six miles This is great
Track 1: That radical acceptance piece that seem, you have to exercise every day of like, okay, so I had to have this heart transplant. This is where I'm at. I, did you find that that was like this constant conversation of reminding yourself where you had come from?
chris_moll: Yes But you know it was sort of like that there's a scene in the movie Animal House where on one shoulder he is he's got the angel talking and the other shoulder he is got the devil talking that was my frequent conversation of okay look where you started You're making progress Then the devil's like you should be better Why aren't you stronger Get stronger try harder [01:00:00] Like you
Track 1: it sounds like, uh,
chris_moll: internal battle
Track 1: The ego versus the new heart.
chris_moll: a hundred percent
Track 1: Mm-hmm. . . Yes. You're speaking to the choir here. Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: Yeah and honestly like that's five years later now It's something I still struggle with and it it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm 55 Like I still want to I should still be performing like I'm 30 in my head you know Um but
Track 1: Wow.
chris_moll: that's my internal dialogue Yeah
Track 1: and I struggle with that too, and like I said in episode five, Cassie and I talk a lot about that and the mountain town perspective versus what's best for the heart. You know, the expectations of our friends and, but mostly our ego versus what the heart needs.
chris_moll: Well and and that's really what I've found because you know even after returning home I had a reluctance [01:01:00] to go mountain biking with people or go backcountry skiing with people because I couldn't accept for the myself that it's not okay to be the slowest person in the group when the reality is my friends my wife just want to do something with me They don't give a shit how fast you go They just want to go out and do something it's completely the internal struggle
Track 1: Right.
chris_moll: else cares It's it's all in my head
Track 1: They're just glad you're alive,
chris_moll: that yeah
Track 1: and, and thriving.
chris_moll: go do something with
Track 1: I mean, the fact that you,
chris_moll: I'm grateful for
Track 1: I would dare say you're thrive. You were thriving relatively quickly. Would you agree with that?
chris_moll: is that an external definition of thriving or
Track 1: Ah,
chris_moll: you know externally you probably perceived that way
Track 1: I, I'm perceiving, yes.
chris_moll: way
Track 1: Okay.
chris_moll: Yeah
Track 1: fair.
chris_moll: But but that's the conflict right
Track 1: Mm-hmm. . I have two more [01:02:00] burning questions. Number one is the gene mutation. So before the heart transplant, you did the genetic testing. It was gonna take eight weeks. So what did you learn?
chris_moll: So I learned that I have this condition condition called n c and I don't really know what the acronym stands for Um like I call it Florida North Carolina
Track 1: That works
chris_moll: it was Discovered relatively recently um within about the last decade so subsequently and and again this is in hindsight and a little bit of guessing pretty sure that's what killed my my dad he had very similar symptoms to what I experienced but they didn't know what it was so subsequently had my kids tested my brother got tested my brother has the gene as well as one of my kids interestingly [01:03:00] so my brother goes down to he's now a patient at the University of Utah He gets an MRI once a year and they look at his heart function and how he is doing It's one of those things where you can't really treat the condition but you can treat the symptoms if you know about it my brother's doing fine my one of my daughters goes down and sees them she was going annually they basically said you're you're coming a little too frequently let's see you about every three years so interestingly the basically the people who discovered it this gene this mutation and who are considered to be the leading experts are at the University of Colorado Medical School in Denver Um my brother actually just went for an appointment with the lead doctor down there and she said There are only 350 people in the world who are registered [01:04:00] to have this gene it's a super small cross section the entire population
Track 1: I always knew you moles were special
chris_moll: Yeah exactly Yeah We're super unique Yeah But I don't have the gene anymore Mine
Track 1: True.
chris_moll: Yeah
Track 1: Oh, the, the
chris_moll: Sorry I have
Track 1: dark humor that comes from this.
chris_moll: me
Track 1: Yes.
chris_moll: Yeah
Track 1: Okay. But your brother's holding stable. Your daughter is looking good. And it's just a matter of, of just knowledge is power and monitoring.
chris_moll: Precisely
Track 1: Okay. Now this heart of yours, this, this new to you heart, do you know the person it came from? you know the name of the person or the family or?
chris_moll: I don't know the name of the person I actually I did at one point when I was well enough you know because everything is incredibly anonymous we basically wrote a thank you letter which [01:05:00] then gets forwarded on to hmm I can't remember the exact name Um but it's through the Intermountain Hospital down in Salt Lake They run the Oregon sort of donation program in our region and they've sent the letter on and You know they act as the middle person because it's highly confidential on both ends but eventually we had contact the donor's mother we sort of corresponded back and forth Um I do not know what happened to the person but it turned out it was about a 32 year old male from Idaho Falls and we were sort of communicating back and forth She really wanted to meet which I was happy to do but then she had a number of events happen Her hu her husband died She was sick I think eventually died And at that point [01:06:00] correspondence just sort of stopped before we could meet you know and given the technology today I could probably figure out what happened to this young man but I just haven't really had the desire to do I don't really need to know the circumstances Maybe one day I'll feel like I need to but for the time being I I don't really know the circumstances of of his
Track 1: Mm-hmm. . Yeah, that sounds like that's a very personal choice cuz there's just so much other medical trauma that you are processing and it's like you almost have to also process the donor's medical trauma too. , if you're gonna choose to know the story, and so like, Hey, let's just stick with my own. I've got enough trauma to deal with.
I'm gonna just remain grateful. Thank you. Maybe if I choose to in the future, if I can, if I have the bandwidth to handle that other medical trauma, then you will. Right? Like that's, that's what I [01:07:00] hear. And think that's just a lot to process
chris_moll: Yeah and you know really my I mean all sort of have this curious nature but what I sort of boiled down to is I is that information that I really need
Track 1: Yeah. Does it help you?
chris_moll: just sort of does it help me in any way Does it help the victim or their family in any way I sort of boiled down to at the time that it wasn't really something that I needed
Track 1: Yeah.
chris_moll: I didn't see how it was beneficial except for it was perhaps more to perseverate on
Track 1: Well, and I also go back to the strength-based skillset that you were sharing earlier in our conversation. I think this goes along with it. It's like you have the wisdom to know that that's just not gonna help your journey. It's not, it's not an way informing you to take a step forward. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . So Chris, it's been five years.
You've just celebrated five years. You've had a lot of time to reflect. reflect.
chris_moll: [01:08:00] up. Yep. March 17th.
Track 1: March 17th though, right? So with that
chris_moll: luck of the Irish,
Track 1: it is. Yes.
chris_moll: I'm not, which I'm not Irish
Track 1: Me neither. Um, glad we got that established. That was very important.
chris_moll: Yeah.
Track 1: now that it's almost at the five year mark, like where are you landing now? Physically? Mentally and emotionally.
chris_moll: yeah, that's sort of an interesting question. you know, initially I used to think about my heart all the time. I had for the first year and a half there were some struggles. some of the medication didn't agree with my body and was causing my white blood cell counts to plummet. got the flu, which landed me in the hospital and, my second airplane ride to Salt Lake City. but once we sort of got that all sorted out, my medications have been incredibly stable [01:09:00] over the last, let's call it three and a half years. there really haven't been any changes to my medications. I take 'em twice a day. I take, two different anti-rejection meds, and then some supplements.
So, and some meds that your average, 55 year old man be that different from being on a blood pressure medication, a cholesterol medication. And then I take supplements like calcium and magnesium. and other than that, like I feel really fortunate, but like my medications aren't that bad, you know, some of my friends ask, well, isn't, you know, a huge pain in the ass to take those meds twice a day? I'm like, no, no. It's really not. Compared to the
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: no, I take 'em at nine 30 and nine 30. It's easy. no problem. So I used to think about my heart all the time. now I don't think about it much at all. it's sort of crossed that hurdle where, this is, this is what I got. [01:10:00] it seems to be working just fine. and it's not to say that I don't think about it. I f you know, I frequently think about how lucky I am and how fortunate I am that was able to receive a new heart. I'm still making progress. I sort of gauge it. sort of my winter time trial, if you will, is, skinning up, snowing. I like to time it. And I also gauge it you know, when I really started going up Snow King again, you know, I guess four years ago, how frequently I had to stop and take a break. I'm going for time. I'm not gauging my efforts by how frequently I have to stop. gauging it by how quickly I'm getting to the top. and because I, I'm a really competitive person by nature, and I don't like that side of myself very much. So I, I do everything I can to sort of keep that stamped down. But I frequently am asking my wife how [01:11:00] fast she's getting up there and then comparing myself,
Track 1: How does Nicole feel about that?
chris_moll: she knows, I tell her my, she knows my motivation. And she's still kicking my butt by a fair amount, but I'm, the margin is coming down. she's got about five minutes on me at this point, but I'm bringing that back. I'm, I'm narrowing that
Track 1: And for listeners, uh, that don't live here, Snow King is our local in town ski hill that allows AHI travel in the winter. So a lot of the locals enjoy doing something called skinning, which is a method of getting up the hill on skis. It kind of looks like cross country skiing, but you put this felt thing on the bottom of your skis called the skin and keeps you from sliding backwards, and you can take it off at the top and then ski down.
It's really fun.
chris_moll: Yeah. Well it's funny, I was going up there the other day and um, this up person who was obviously from out of town [01:12:00] sort of stops and looks at me. He's like, is that fun, And I was like, it's like, well, kind of in a weird sort of way.
Track 1: Yeah, it is in a weird sort of way, yes. You know, it, it, I don't know about you, but for me, anytime still I get to move my body and don't have chest pain and I'm not gasping for air. That's fun. You know? It's like, yes it is. The alternative is not fun. I'm going to enjoy moving my body. Yeah, but how about emotionally and mentally
chris_moll: it's, yeah, and it sort of goes in line with, um, sort of the physical aspect is, um, of embracing the agony, emotionally, I'm in a pretty good spot. now, my therapist down in Utah fired me a couple years ago, which is good. I missed talking to him, but he needed to open up some room in his caseload. and he is like, [01:13:00] you know, you're sort of through your struggles from my perspective, which is, which is great. but I'm in a good spot. know, work is going well. Family life is going well. My oldest daughter is heading off to college in the fall, is amazing. and you know, it's really, I sort of decided when I got a little ways out from my transplant and, you know, this is. More anecdotal than anything is like I'm sort of done doing things that I don't want to do you know, there's just sort of, sort of this piece of like, you know what, life is short and now in reality, we all have to do things that we don't want to do. I just do less of them. and if it is and if it's truly something that I don't want to do, I try to figure out how to put a good spin on it, that it's gonna be somehow beneficial.
Track 1: Mm-hmm. . I like what I play. The game I play with myself is I get to pay taxes.
chris_moll: Yeah,
Track 1: I also [01:14:00] get to pay someone else to help
chris_moll: Yeah. Yeah,
Track 1: What? What have you been calling it?
chris_moll: we're, trying to, been trying to avoid giving Ching to the man,
Track 1: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Oh, wow. final,
chris_moll: it's just that sort of stuff.
Track 1: yeah.
chris_moll: you know, work is great. I'm more passionate about my work than ever. kids are in a great spot. So, yeah. And you know how I sort of say it, like the big change is like, you know, like, do you want to go on this fishing trip, for example, in the past it might have been, oh, I need to figure out what's going on, blah, blah, blah. Now it's, yes, want to go on that fishing trip. Yes, I want to go biking,
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: I don't hesitate answering fun things. I don't, yeah. I try not to put other things in front of having a good time with friends and [01:15:00] family
Track 1: Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: and doing adventures.
Track 1: If you could give one piece of advice to others out there that are on the wait list for a transplant for the heart, what would it be?
chris_moll: Wow. well I think that's a really tough question because a lot of people who are on the wait list are on the wait list for a really long time. and my experience was really unique that had happened so quickly, so I'm not really sure. I have great advice. I don't have any profound wisdom because my circumstances were so different, and how I came about getting my transplant. So I'm not really sure I'm the one to doll out any sort of in that
Track 1: Mm-hmm. , I beg to differ just a hair because you were sharing about your thinking and I mean, you asked [01:16:00] for help. You talked to the nurse as you were waiting. I mean, surely other folks who are also waiting, even if it's for longer, have the same struggles you were sharing. You were waiting for tragedy in order for you to be, in order for you to be saved.
There, I, I am willing to bet a hundred percent of the other people out there waiting have those same thoughts.
chris_moll: Yeah. well, I guess if you put it like that, I think what helped me is thinking about the long game. not, I need this transplant. I need this transplant, I need this transplant. For me, it was thinking about what I'm, what I'm going to do after I have the transplant. What are my goals? How do I want to be? because, and I know the sense, sort of strange, but in a sense it's, it's kind of like a rebirthing. you get the opportunity to. Do things different and think about how you would do [01:17:00] things differently than you did before. for me, sort of thinking about that long game of how I want to do things differently really helpful to getting through the process. But then the trick is, you're lucky enough to get a new organ, as are you gonna follow through with those commitments that you've made to yourself?
Track 1: Have you followed through on yours?
chris_moll: I'd like to think I've followed through with many of them. not perfectly. but I think a lot of them I have and I feel good about that.
Track 1: and the only person grading you on those goals is you, of course.
chris_moll: This is myself,
Track 1: Mm-hmm. ? Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: can I sort of talk about one last thing?
Track 1: please.
chris_moll: and this, I, I think this is in line with what we're talking about and I was just having this conversation with my brother. I would like to see a shift, sort of in the way the medical community thinks about this. Um, and this is, it's sort of [01:18:00] bothered me for some time and I get these people are trained, doctors and doctors' jobs are to find something wrong with you. which to me is not a strength-based perspective. frequently I would go in for checkups and what they would say is, well, I can't find a reason to put you in the hospital rather than, this is what I think is going really well for you. these are some things you might be able to work on. The response is, I can't find anything to hospitalize you for. And from a patient perspective that it's just doom and gloom. when you're trying to work on being your best self, that thinking doesn't allow for that. it is interesting and we've both noticed with younger doctors, you see a shift in that thinking. but sort of with the older, and it's really people my age, they don't think that way. from a patient [01:19:00] perspective, that's not helpful.
Track 1: In my cynical mind goes to what? I can't think of anything to make money off of you for
chris_moll: Yeah,
Track 1: that's
chris_moll: it that way necessarily because, and my, dad was a, was a doctor. and the way people practice medicine these days is so different because of insurance
Track 1: mm-hmm.
chris_moll: and it is what it is. I'm not, I'm not here to change or, or tool on the system, all my doctors are on salary.
They're not, they're not making commission by putting me in the hospital. but it's just, it's an evolution of thinking that I think really could go through the medical field would make patients do better rather than thinking about what's wrong. okay, what's actually right? build off what they're doing right. it's a lot easier to build off habits than it is to change bad
Track 1: Mm-hmm. . That's, that's great. I'm glad you shared that. And [01:20:00] I've,
chris_moll: No, that's, that's my soapbox
Track 1: it's a worthy soap box and it's a, I've been having similar conversations with all the other heart warriors that I've been interviewing, and
everyone has a slightly different take on how they'd like to see the medical system shift. And I, I hope that this podcast can start helping move the needle to more.
supportive care for heart patients than what currently exists. And it's, and I don't blame any one person, it's just the system
chris_moll: Oh,
Track 1: everyone's in their own, you know, professional lanes and it's, it's almost like it's too even segmented, right? So like the surgeon's done with you, then they release you.
And that was another conversation I had in episode five with my physical therapist is they, they release you, but then they don't necessarily give you the plan and then you're kind of out in limbo land. And, and so Cassie's [01:21:00] working to try to eliminate that through kilter physical therapy in Jackson. And, but you know, the fact that we're even able to talk about this and that we're, we're, we're cognizant of it and there's conversations happening tells me that, that it.
it is starting to move. If people are willing to say, Hey, something's gotta shift here. It has to start with conversation. Mm-hmm.
chris_moll: yeah. And yeah, the silos, I mean, that's, that's a whole nother hour long conversation is the silos that exist even within the same institution, really for the protection of their own, departments. Is not helpful to good patient care either
Track 1: No,
chris_moll: everybody's, everybody stays in their lane and doesn't wanna look at other folks.
Track 1: Right. Well, we will leave it at that and probably come back to that in another episode. Chris, this has been, this has been everything. It's been, hard. As someone who knows you, to [01:22:00] enlightening and heartwarming pun totally intended. I just really appreciate you taking the time today to share your story, and I know it's gonna help a lot of other people, so thank you.
chris_moll: Thank you so much for having me. Enjoyed talking to you.
And that's our episode for today. Thank you so much for spending a little bit of your day with me. If you enjoyed this podcast, I sure would appreciate if you would go to my website, the heart chamber podcast.com, and make a donation. Also, if you are a fellow heart warrior, I'd love to hear from you.
Would you like to share your story on this podcast? You can either send me an email at boots the heart chamber podcast.com or you can go to my website and go to the contact link and leave me a message there. There's also a way to leave via voicemail on my website. I'm so glad you joined me for today.
Please [01:23:00] be sure to come back next Tuesday to the Heart Chamber Podcast for another inspiring episode.