0:00:05.4 Vickie Brett: Welcome to the Inclusive Education Project. I'm Vickie Brett.

0:00:09.2 Amanda Selogie: I'm Amanda Selogie. We're two civil rights lawyers on a mission to change the conversation about education, civil rights, and modern activism.

0:00:20.9 VB: Each week, we're gonna explore new topics, which are going to educate and empower others.

0:00:25.5 AS: And give them a platform to enact change in education and level the playing field.

0:00:33.5 VB: Welcome, listeners.

0:00:35.7 AS: Hi, friends.

0:00:36.0 VB: This is an exciting episode. They're all exciting, but it's just you and me, and we're gonna dig into project 2025. We're not gonna beat you over the head with it, we're just...

0:00:43.9 AS: We're gonna probably get fired up. Just be ready.

0:00:46.4 VB: We're gonna, we're giving you a taste. This is gonna be a smaller of our podcast simply because there is so much that can...

0:00:54.5 AS: Yeah.

0:00:54.9 VB: We can get into. And I think we just...

0:00:56.1 AS: Our goal is to dive a little bit today, and then please send any questions your way. And maybe we'll, like, hop on in Instagram live or something to talk more in-depth if you have specific questions.

0:01:07.7 VB: The election is a few weeks away, and we felt it was important to kinda give our perspective of what project 2025, the Republican party, and a lot of the far right kind of think tanks. That's who created this, the Heritage Foundation. And they've been around since Reagan. And it's really important for people to understand it's not just about economics and numbers. It is completely trying to turn, our, what it is to be American on its head. So just first and foremost, they wanna start with deleting terms. The most important, obviously, not most important. They're all very important, but the ones that speak to us are deleting terms such as diversity, equality, inclusion, gender, gender equality, the list goes on. Basically, out of every federal rule, agency regulation, contract grant, regulation, and piece of legislation that exists.

0:02:02.3 AS: We should caveat that, like, when we talk about the risks that are at... The things that are at stake in this election, like, we're not just talking about the presidency. Obviously, that's a big factor, and that leads the charge. But, like, we're talking about our congressional races. We're talking about our state races. We're talking about our school boards. Like, these are all people who are trying to change the way that we support our country. And like Vickie said, like, what it is to be American, our public education system, say what you will about our system as it is right now. And you all know, if you've been listening for a while or even just short time, Vickie and I are not, we don't shy away from criticizing the current system. We know it's flawed. We know there's problems. However, you can't just eliminate things just for elimination's sake.

0:02:50.4 VB: Right. And things that you don't like. Right? That's what it is. 'Cause literally, the sentence before that sentence that says this starts with deleting the terms. The sentence before that says, the next conservative president, which they believe would be Trump.

0:03:06.7 AS: Yeah.

0:03:07.2 VB: Must take the institutions of American civil society hard targets for woke culture warriors. Okay. So and then you're saying and then we gotta delete all this. There's literally no rhyme or reason other than just, like, we just have to delete this because this just does not fit into our and for us, obviously, equity, inclusion, that's what we are trying to advocate on behalf of our students for right? And a couple of the other just, like, key phrases that this is literally just within the four. This is page 5, everyone. Okay? End of page 4, top page 5. This is over 900 pages. That's why Amanda and I wanna just kinda hit some key things and kind of really speak to what this would mean. Another quote is a school serve parents, not the other way around. So this is kind of going towards what we had talked about when Betsy DeVos was in the department of education. I know I'm kinda skipping around, but we'll get back to this. We try very hard to talk to our IEP teams, teachers, administrators. It is all of us against the problem, the issue. Right?

0:04:11.3 AS: Yes.

0:04:12.6 VB: We are all on the same team and this is already very divisive. Right? And then one of the last ones that I just kinda wanted to point out was that basically any states, cities, counties, school boards, union bosses, principals, and teachers who disagree should be immediately cut off from federal funds. Again, everybody, this is just looking forward, and this is very, this is, like, fighting words. Right? I understand county state, and then you're going down to the individual teacher. And this is why a lot of teachers and a lot of administrators are speaking out against it.

0:04:44.6 AS: So, a big portion of what the plan has in place is specifically eliminating title 1 funding, converting billions of IDEA programs and converting them to either block grants or private school choice. And then the big one is eliminating the Department of Education. And one of the criticisms I've seen online is, Well, federal funding for schools is only, like, 10%. It's not really a big deal, yada yada yada. First of all, it is a huge factor. If you think about there's certain states that, Yes, may have more funding. Other states when you think about that average, it's not really across the board. The reason why we have the Department of Education and we have these federal laws is because we need that structure to ensure that children are receiving appropriate education. And without that let me give you an example. We had, so we have an episode. We'll direct you to back when Betsy DeVos was our secretary of education. We talked specifically about voucher programs that was a key factor that she tried to push through. So, again, even though people try to say that Trump isn't gonna do this, he already tried to do this. The voucher programs and all of these plans of having these block grants, they're already problematic because they actually don't support the average student.

0:06:00.5 AS: They only really support the rich students, the families that are already placing their child in private school in the first place who can afford it. They're not supporting equity, inclusion, all of that. But the bigger picture is eliminating the Department of Education is as much as we can say there are problems with the Department of Education, it's kind of the fabric that holds our entire system together. There are consequences for removing things without having a replacement strategy in place. This plan doesn't say we have a better system, let's replace it. It's just saying, let's just wash this all away, pretend it never existed, and go on our merry way.

0:06:35.8 VB: And that's the mindset of this Project 2025 is, like, they don't want oversight. They want there to be potential for fraud. They want to have unlimited power, and that is not something we as Americans in a democratic society have even been taught as a culture and that's why in that episode we did talk about how these vouchers divert funds from public schools. Right? You're cutting programs. You're cutting services. You're cutting teacher salaries, and they're already... We've already seen a max exodus of teachers and administrators after the pandemic because they were not getting the appropriate support even, not just monetarily. Right?

0:07:17.8 AS: Right. And those programs are forcing more segregation, not only of low socioeconomic status of students, but also students with disabilities, students with color.

0:07:25.1 VB: Absolutely.

0:07:28.1 AS: You're basically giving free rein for private school to do whatever the hell they please, which is the whole reason why we have the Department of Education in the first place. Public education relies on a system, and it relies on a system of funding. And the minute you take something away, the minute you eliminate one component, it doesn't work. And so if you really want to sit there and say, Yes. We need to overhaul our education system. And I will be the first to say that. We need a plan in place that is supporting all students, not only the children of extremely rich families, which, I mean...

0:08:02.7 VB: Yeah.

0:08:03.2 AS: Let's get down to brass tacks. This is what this plan is supposed, is meant to do.

0:08:05.9 VB: Right. Right, right. And what's funny is that, even if you were to try to implement this voucher system, it actually increases administrative cost. It increases bureaucratic burdens. It reduces efficiency. And you're just gonna do that while simultaneously just deleting the Department of Education. Make it make sense. Right? It really just doesn't...

0:08:26.1 AS: Well, yeah. I mean, only the rich or the rich, the students that are already in private school will ever see any benefit to these plans. Millions, the majority of American students will effectively lose their education completely if these plans go into place. We're not mincing words here. We're not trying to use... This is the reality of the situation of why the Department of Education is required.

0:08:52.6 VB: And now I'll direct you... It starts on page 319, and it literally is Department of Education mission. This is the first sentence. Federal education policy should be limited, and ultimately, the Federal Department of Education should be eliminated. They are telling you right there.

0:09:08.8 AS: I saw a couple of people online that were trying to say, Well, we have state department of education, so why do we need the federal one? Like, if we're going to the system of trying to do smaller big government, smaller governments of just states and that, one, obviously, there's a problem because there's disparity between states. But the other thing is, guess what? The State Department of Education filters from the Federal Department of Education. Without the Federal Department of Education, we do not have the Department of Education, period. It doesn't work like that. These are not separate entities completely that can operate all by themselves, all of the federal laws that govern what the State Department of Educations are supposed to do. Our education system is not built on states. If you look at most state education codes, it mirrors the federal law. And without that federal law, there is no state law. It doesn't work like that. It's not the same as what we're seeing with, like, say, abortion rights and whether there's federal protections or state protections, it's a little bit different. This is a system that relies on each other. And so to the people who are gonna say those talking points of, like, Oh, well, we're gonna be fine. We live in a state that, like, our education department of education is doing a lot. We'll be fine. No. You won't.

0:10:19.2 VB: And I think words matter. And the way in which they present, like, this overview of, like, Oh, well, federal government has played a minor role in education. This all stems from president Johnson signing into law The Civil Rights Act of 1964. That's where we started to see the, like, little seedlings, right, of the US Department of Education. And I bring this up because, the way in which white supremacy is ingrained just in everything, it's important to kind of see how they're, like, presenting this. Right? If you are somebody that's like, Oh, I'm just reading this. Okay. Well, history. And I mean, they don't mince words. They even point out that since 1965, congress has continued to layer on dozens of new laws and programs as federal, quote, unquote, solutions, so myriad of education problems here are the quote, unquote solutions. 1973, Rehabilitation Act. What do we use all the time for some of our kiddos that don't get IEPs? Section 504 of the rehabilitation act. The next one that they say is, and in 1975, the individuals disability education Act, IDEA, to address educational neglect of students with disabilities. Okay? Like and it's just so funny 'cause they're saying dozens of these.

0:11:36.7 VB: Okay. Those are two. Then they jump from 1975 to 2002. Right? And you're just like, Wait, if I'm really just trying to put my critical thinking hat on, that's not a dozen of new laws, the two pivotal laws that have essential and we say all the time, it's still so new that such the Wild West. Right? And that...

0:12:00.0 AS: Well, our parents lived in a society. Our parents lived in a society where children with disabilities were institutionalized from birth. You've heard us on our podcast. Literally have people on our podcast where their children or their family members were told at birth they have a disability. They need to be institutionalized. That wasn't that long ago. The reason these laws exist is to ensure that all children are given an opportunity. When we talk about why we won't go back, but these people who created this plan, they wanna go back. Guess what? They wanna go back to a time where all these kids can be segregated and separated because they don't want things to look a certain way. And I love how they put in there, it's like wokeness. I'm sorry. It's not about wokeness. It's about equality and treating others the way we wanna be treated. It's about treating every child 'cause let's be real here. We're talking mostly about children. There's a lot of things we could talk about adults, but when we're talking about children, do we really wanna live in a society, in a country where we do not care about the majority of children? We only care about rich white kids? No. We don't.

0:13:12.2 VB: Yes. Page 302, protecting the children indicates we're gonna eliminate safety regulations on baby formula. So, you know what I'm saying? Like, we could pop off, like, on all these things, but I think it's really important to kind of understand the depth, and it's not just eliminating the department of education. It's eliminating current funding for school lunch programs and the way in which they talk about it. It's like well, these were meant in the '60s to help kids of low-income families and now kids who are in middle class and upper class families are getting it? No. And it's like, What? Like, I thought... Studies have shown that since we've been allocating funding for school lunches and then a lot of kids get free school lunches federally mandated that they are Improving they're able to listen.

0:14:01.1 AS: Yes, yes.

0:14:02.0 VB: They're able to function because they're not worried about where their next meal is coming from.

0:14:04.3 AS: They're not in there starving.

0:14:05.6 VB: Whether you're the richest of the rich person which you're probably gonna be bringing food to be honest about it. Or even if you're middle class it's like why are we not helping parents, right? Who are busy who are working who have more probably than one child like just... You have to think outside of these like numbers and cents and these words that they're using that make it seem like there's just no feeling, right?

0:14:28.4 AS: Yeah.

0:14:29.7 VB: Like you're not naming, you know what it actually is and we just wanted to take this opportunity To bring this forth. I know we've talked about it a little bit. We do wanna take this on to maybe like a video that we could do a reel. So if you do have any questions specifically about something that you read or something that you saw that somebody said we have we've downloaded that 925 page pdf. We're still kind of pouring over it and want to do a little bit more with it as we get closer to the election but we really just wanted to bring this to your forefront because it was months ago that it was released or whatever that people were kind of acknowledging it and I feel like at the time a lot of people were like, whoa. And hopefully you had some time if you didn't digest it. That's fine. We've given you some highlights I've given you page numbers. You can go and read it yourself. I read from it so that you know, it's not us trying to fear monger, but it is trying to inform you as the listener.

0:15:25.3 AS: Well, and really trying to look at the real world consequences to these plans that it's not just these big ideas but things that are already happening, things that legislators are already trying to do. There's people who criticize all over the place a lot of these things and we need to really look at what is going on in our education system and what will happen if we go down this road because it's already happening. This is not...

0:15:51.0 VB: Already. Yes.

0:15:52.6 AS: Yeah, we've seen of this and it won't be the last but it is something that we need to be considering and for those of you who are talking to other people because we know anyone listening to our podcast either works with kids or has kids so the demographic that you understand this but for those people who say my kids are already older, we're not in education and why should I care? Well, guess what the whole point of public education is to help get children to be educated and well-rounded contributing members to society. Society as a whole impacts you no matter who you are in this country.

0:16:26.7 VB: Absolutely, yes.

0:16:27.1 AS: So there's a spin to it that we want everyone to kind of hear.

0:16:31.2 VB: Yeah. Well, we hope you enjoyed this. I mean we could have kept going but we're... I'm trying to be mindful. I'm trying to be mindful. We appreciate you and yes, if you have any questions, comments, please just send us a direct message and we'll be more than happy to review it and see what we can do with it. Have a good day.

0:16:48.9 AS: Talk to you later. Bye.

0:16:49.3 VB: Bye.