This is an AI transcription, apologies for any errors.

[00:00:00] Andrew Picken: This cancer is a crafted little bugger and it doesn't actually provide any symptoms for people to, to sort of grab onto.

[00:00:12] Alex Melia: Welcome to Stories of Men Beneath the Surface. I'm Alex Melia. Join me as we discover what it means to be a man in the modern era.

Our health is something a lot of us take for granted, especially when we're generally feeling bright and well. It's easy to skip checkups and continue living our day-to-day lives without even thinking about it twice. Andrew was invited to a senior's tour golf event that had partnered with the charity, prostate uk.

Always a fan of the sport. He and his wife went along to enjoy the festivities for what he assumed was just a nice weekend away.

[00:01:01] Andrew Picken: It was a glorious autumn weekend as far as the weather was concerned. It was fantastic walking. There was some brilliant golf with some people from my era that I, I'd love to follow, you know, a really well run professional event. The television cameras there and there was a tent that was in one of the main areas by the Tented Village, and it was staffed by a number of volunteers who were helping out the charity, prostate cancer uk.

When they were handing out information leaflets about risk factors for men, I did what I bet 90% of most men listening to this podcast would do. You take the leaflet, you think to yourself, well, I'm not gonna offend anybody. I'm, I'm not gonna let them see me. Stick it in the next bin, round the corner, popped it in my pocket, and.

Left it there. I'll be honest, I didn't read it and the leaflets lay unread in my pocket a little while later, probably, I dunno. A couple of days later, I'm putting my coat on, ready to go out and walk the dock, stuffed my hands in the pockets to make sure that I've got the pool bags and all the rest of it.

And out comes this little folded leaflet. I thought to myself, you know, really, I should read this. I should know more about this. Having read and analyzed the document and then. I applied it to my own personal circumstances. I started to realize that I really did need to know more about my own health in relation to prostate cancer.

Needless to say, having recognized that, Bring up the gp, make an appointment. I've got no worries. I've got no symptoms. There's nothing wrong with me, but it would really help me if I can come and talk to you about these issues and then you can tell me whether or not I'm wasting your time. And she explained that there's, uh, something called the D R E A digital rectal examination.

Now, I'd never had that before. I felt like I was about to lose my virginity if I'm being brutally honest. She asked me to drop my trousers to lie side saddle, if you like, sideways on, on the bed, and then to just raise my knees up to my chest and to just try and be as comfortable as possible. Obviously, she'd love to herself up, used a little bit of lubricant and literally within a few seconds the examination was over.

It was as simple as that.

It is about the size of a golf ball, and it's involved in the production of sperm basically. So, Is took down below, but by accessing through the back passage, she was able to run her finger around the hole of the prostate. If it's a healthy prostate, then it's very, very smooth, so it's very simple for her to be able to detect that.

In my case, on the reverse side of it, she found some roughness and that was the first indicator. That there might have been some kind of an issue. The doctor was very, very matter of fact, and actually she, having reassured me that she was gonna ask for me to have a, a blood test. I was then sent away and told to expect contact within the next week or so.

I'll be honest, I was very, very nervous.

[00:04:09] Alex Melia: So after you've had this rectal examination, you've been waiting one week for the results. Can you tell us what they were?

[00:04:16] Andrew Picken: Yeah. What happens is that, uh, they contacted me and said that the, the PSA test that had been done on the blood sample that I'd given showed some anomalies and that as a result of that, I was gonna be referred to a consultant, urologist, uh, one of the experts at Darby Royal.

And very quickly they got in touch and an appointment was made. So basically the time scale from. Presenting to the GP to actually waiting nervously outside the neurologist's door was probably in the region of six weeks, but in the, in the in between times, um, what they'd arranged was for me to go into, have a full body CT scan.

That was a, an incredible experience in itself because you literally go into a machine where, They do a complete three-dimensional body mapping of your entire body. Obviously they're concentrating particularly on the groin I was in the machine for in the total for about two hours, and it literally takes cross-sectional views of your body.

So I'm now in a position to be able to say this is the body mapping of my image in the autumn of 2018. So that if there's the slightest change or anything in any of the body masses or the prostate or anything else, they've got this guideline to go to because prostate cancer, because it's so prev prevalent and because so many men will have it one in eight.

Uh, white men wanting four Afro-Caribbean. There are a lot of people who will have it, who will never know they have it. The problem is, is if it migrates from outta the prostate and it moves onto different areas of the body, if it migrates into the bones or whatever, then that can then become, um, one of the 12,000 a year that die through the disease.

There's no screening program like there for breast cancer. A lot of men leave it just too late and where they present to be checked or they go with symptoms, then it's too late because all of the treatment options are not available to them. So I myself, Tapped on the door and go in to see the consultant, who is an incredibly good looking guy, dressed head to toe in Italian fashion gear.

My wife subsequently said that she quite fancied him. My initial reaction. To look at him was just to try and get some kind of an assessment. It's amazing how often you do this. With the experience that I've had, the first thing you look for is the size of people's hands because with most of the visits that have been done, because it's such a diagnostic toll, the D, the d r e gets done.

So the first thing you do is clock out. Big people's fingers are, in his case, they looked dainty. And I remember, I do remember it, a beautiful sunny day outside and I remember thinking to. The first thing, oh, his fingers aren't too big. And then my wife, Sharon, was with me throughout the whole of the process when he actually said, yes, we can confirm.

You definitely do have prostate cancer. This is your Gleason score. And went into all the other kinds of stuff, and I'll be, I'll be honest, when he said, yes, you definitely have cancer. You sort of go into like a. Thing and.

The fact that Sharon was there as my supporter, she understood exactly what he was saying. She was asking questions on my behalf. She knows more about the disease than I do, and I'm now an ambassador for prostate cancer cause of the research that she's done and, and it was just an incredible experience, but, Having, having been told, yes, you have prostate cancer and yes, prostate cancer kills.

In actual fact, I consider myself to be incredibly lucky because because of the fact that I presented myself early enough to get the diagnosis, it means that I've got the total range of treatment options.

[00:08:36] Alex Melia: From, from everything that you've said there, Andrew, it makes me think as a 36 year old man that perhaps I should get this check because in the past I've always known about prostate cancer, and every so often you might see an advertisement or you might hear about someone who's got it or had the test, but I've always thought to myself, well, I'm too young to get that.

And I'm now starting to think, especially with the fact that you said that sometimes people can be asymptomatic like you, that maybe it's definitely worth me going ahead and having that test. What I

[00:09:06] Andrew Picken: would say is check out the risk factors. Go onto the prostate cancer UK website. The risk factors are on there, and you can do it a check on their website.

It's 30 seconds flat to give you an indication as to whether or not you need to take it to the next level.

It's not wasted time. What I would say is probably age 40 to 45. Certainly you need to talk about that. I know I've had really in depth conversations with my son who's 27 because his risk as a result of me having this cancer, his increased by a factor of two 50%. So he needs to be really aware. He needs to be proactive about this.

One of the things that men tend to do is that'll. Getting checks until they think, oh, I need to look out for blood in the urine. If there's blood in the urine, then that's an indicator that things have actually gone very, very far down the road. So that's not helpful. So what you have to realize is that this, this cancer is a crafted little bugger and it doesn't actually provide any symptoms for people to, to sort of grab onto.

I, I know of a man who went to his GP because he thought he'd pulled his back while he was gardening. The reason that he went was because I've pulled me back with the gardening. But two weeks before, he'd heard one of my awareness talks and he said, while I was sat there, I said to the GP, It's mate mine's been diagnosed with this, and I've, I explained about that.

It couldn't be connected to that, could it? And this was just in the first couple of weeks of the pandemic. Within four weeks, he was having a full prostatectomy because his, um, prostate cancer was so advanced that the treatment option was the full withdrawal of the entire prostate in order to give him the best chances of life.

Now, uh, from the talks I've done subsequently, uh, I know that. Who've had similar experiences because they've heard me blathering on and then decided, yeah, I'll go and get checked. And all the reason why I'm talking to you today, Alex, is that I'm wanting to encourage any man, probably more importantly, any women listening to this podcast who have any connection or love or affection for a man of any age if they're above 40.

N them. Ask them, tell them, persuade them checked because if

asmp. I've got a cancer in there and I've got no, ever since that cancer diagnosis, every four to six months I've been checked. My bloods have been checked, variety of other checks have been done, and I know that it's not yet migrated. I'm in the safer position with a cancer diagnosis than, than people. So in actual fact, this is where it was so lucky for me to be in the position I'm in now to find out about the cancer because if things do change, And it does mean living your psych, your life on a six month cycle because I have to present myself to be checked out every six months.

But surely to God that's a better position than not knowing. And then going to the doctor and finding that there's some blood in your pee and you're a stage four cancer victim and being given life limiting advice. The whole point of me doing this is try and encourage people. Be proactive. It's your health, it's your life.

And it really is. The DRE check is a simple thing to do. Talk to your GP about it. It might well be that one's not needed because you don't fit the risk factors. Ask the question. Ask the

[00:12:55] Alex Melia: question. Yeah, exactly. Exactly what you got to lose. And for me, Well, I suppose a lot of men are worried about getting their anus inspected because like you, like you say, you know, you were a virgin to that.

And, and same for myself. I, I suppose for most people, Andrew, it would be short-term pain, if you want to call it pain or short-term discomfort, rather for long-term gain. And what I love about your story, Andrew, is that golf saved your life. Maybe that's the headline. Golf saved your life because if you'd not gone to that event, And also, if you'd not picked up that leaflet, you wouldn't be here anyway talking about all of this.

You wouldn't be working for Prostate cancer uk. You wouldn't be speaking to me on the podcast. You wouldn't have helped seven men to. Saved their lives. Basically

[00:13:38] Andrew Picken: it is, it's, it's the greatest mulligan that I could possibly have been given because having ignored it and put it to one side to be then given another chance.

And I've just grasped that it's one of the reasons why now I, I do spend as much time as I do trying to support the charity and try and go out and. Talk to groups of men, uh, to encourage them to get checked because I know from my experience the benefits I've gained from that and the fact that there are people out there who I know are here and have been treated and have had radical treatments because of the fact that it had their particular disease had progressed that they needed radical treatment, the chances dead.

Sharon, your

[00:14:24] Alex Melia: wife, what was her response when she found out that you were diagnosed?

[00:14:28] Andrew Picken: Obviously she was, she was with me throughout. She's been an absolute rock. Um, I, I dunno quite whether or not I would've coped with this as well as I think I've done without her support. Um, She actually has been my Google friend.

Cause as soon as you get any kind of a diagnosis like this, you just go wild on Google and you start searching for medical terms and, and it got to the point where I really disappeared down a dark hole because I was looking at all kinds of material. And as soon as you start searching for these diseases, you get all kinds of stuff comes up on your search engine and people wanting to tell you miracle cures and all of this.

And we ended up coming to an agreement. That she would be the one that would undertake the research and, and inform the process and issue and, and, uh, she's been nothing more than an absolute rock. So, um, yeah, she's, she's been amazing.

[00:15:23] Alex Melia: Of the seven people that you've helped Andrew, in terms of getting, getting the news out there, getting the information or I suppose the awareness out there about prostate cancer, which of those stories were, were particularly memorable for you in terms of.

Them finding out and them getting diagnosed with prostate cancer and, and their recovery.

[00:15:43] Andrew Picken: I actually did an article on this called Richard Story. So, um, he gave me permission to sort of talk about it in general terms. Um, basically I, I did a talk to a group of fellow golfers who were all, uh, Police, golfers, all of whom, friends, colleagues.

Um, after one of their events, there's about 45 people there, and it's one of the most difficult talks I've ever had to do because of the fact that they were all friends and they were all people I'd golfed with. And it was the most, from a personal standpoint, the most difficult presentation that I've ever had to do.

Because of the fact that every single face in the room wasn't a stranger. Every single one I'd worked within the past or played golf with, knew on a personal level. So it was a really, from an emotional point of view, it was a difficult, difficult talk to do, but to then find out five months later, From Richard when he rang me and told me the story in the middle of the pandemic about the fact that he'd reacted to what I had to say, and whilst he was at the GP trying to get sorted out for this ach, came back, he asked the questions about prostate cancer and got checked and literally ended up then with a radical prostatectomy as a result of it.

That, that was such an empowering feeling, knowing that I'd been able to help him identify something that he didn't know he'd got, that he's had treated, he's now recovered, he's got zero psa, and he was comfortable enough for me to be able to talk about the story that I, for me, that's as good as medicine.

[00:17:30] Alex Melia: And you almost don't even think about those sorts of things, you know? So for example, when you, you become an adult and you. You go off in, into your career. I remember you saying that you were working in your career for 36 years, and you think that that's your life's purpose, but then afterwards a different kind of purpose comes up.

And this is obviously something that you're personally affected by. So sometimes I find that fascinating about life. You, you think the impact that you're going to put out to the world is going in this direction, but it actually goes in this direction based on something else that you've had. And I do like that John Lennon quote.

Life happens when you're busy making plans. You know you're having these plans for retirement, and boom, you get this, this diagnosis that you were just not expecting and it's taking you down a different route in terms of your own recovery and then helping these seven other men and then these seven other men.

Might then have this sort of ripple effect where they tell other men and then they get checked and then they find out that they have the diagnosis and so on and so forth, and that all of these people can then survive and, and not be victims to this cancer. Yeah,

[00:18:35] Andrew Picken: absolutely. People plan, God laughs.

[00:18:39] Alex Melia: It kind of makes me think about the, the, the phrase I've been using a lot recently because I'm, I'm out of the UK right now.

I've been doing, started to practice learning how to surf and, and the waves, sometimes they can just so they can overpower you and it makes me think of the, the phrase nature laughs last and it kind of the same as the. You know, nature, God, and the intertwining of the two. And at some points, you know, you've got no control.

And it's the same with this. I suppose. You've got no control over the fact that you are. Your mother had cancer, it, you know, cancers in your family increases your likelihood of, of getting cancer by 250%. Yeah,

[00:19:15] Andrew Picken: absolutely. And, and it's just a matter of how you, you know, um, it's, it's how you react to the cards you've been dealt with and, and that there have been times when it gets dark and you start thinking to yourself, you know, oof, you know, you wake up in the middle of the night because, um, Having to go for a p that's something that happens to us all.

The difficulty is, is whether or not you, then it has an impact when you're trying to go back to sleep because you don't wanna let the dark thoughts come in. And I did have a period where I did get really down on myself and quite depressed and what have you. Um, but again, manage to use these talks and to think more positively and to, to turn it into a positive experience, not a negative one.

[00:19:59] Alex Melia: Sports talks. Did they actually make you feel better about yourself when you're going through this dark period? It sounds like.

[00:20:05] Andrew Picken: Yeah, making people aware, knowing that I'm having a positive impact and that people are reacting to those talks in a, in the way in which I want them to react by being proactive and by going out and getting checked, and the fact that those checks have then meant that they've, they've had the opportunity for earlier detections.

That is a major positive for

[00:20:26] Alex Melia: me, and it's, it makes me think about the fact that sometimes when I've had dark periods in my life, When you actually go out and help someone else, or you help a group of people, it could be through a talk. It could be just speaking to a friend on the phone about the problems that they're facing.

It immediately makes me feel better afterwards, even though that that wasn't necessarily the objective for me to make myself feel better. It's almost like a, an unintended side

[00:20:47] Andrew Picken: effect. Encouraging people to talk to each other and to be open and to have a dialogue. One of the big things that, um, I, I've got some quiz questions that I use sometimes, and I do a bit of a quiz when I'm doing these talks and to get people talking about the issue, to just make them think about it sufficiently to be able to respond proactively instead of forgetting all about it, it's dead easy to stick some money in the tin, take the badge and to forget all about it.

With there being no screening program for this disease, you could actually be signing your own death warrant when the option is you get yourself checked, and if you're clear, brilliant, if you're not clear, finding it early enough, there are treatment options available to save people. You don't want to be one of the 12,000 a year.

Who unfortunately die cause they're diagnosed too late to be able to take active treatment options.

[00:21:50] Alex Melia: It's great to hear that Andrew's using his platform to encourage other men to get checked as well. But what really resonated with me was how heartwarming it was that Andrew's wife was there with him. The whole way through. And to hear him encourage other women to get their husbands to get checked out as well.

We as men can be very belligerent and avoid those difficult and embarrassing situations, but by facing up to them collectively, men can start to get better, and we can see these yearly fatalities of prostate cancer start to fall. We get this topic coming up a lot on the podcast about men not wanting to go to the doctor or ask for help.

That's why I'm so grateful to Andrew for coming on the podcast and talking about this issue, especially from the generation that he's from. As we all know, our fathers and grandfathers can be very avoidant in not wanting to talk about their issues. I ask friends and other people in my life all the time about their father's and their grandfather's willingness to go and see the doctor.

There's definitely this. Oh, I'm fine. Leave me alone sort of mentality. But really I just think they're scared as to what the case or what the diagnosis might be. And the reality is the longer you leave it, the scarier it gets. There is no national screening program for prostate cancer in the uk, but you can take a test online and I did it and it literally took 30 seconds.

And the link is prostate cancer uk.org. You're two and a half times more likely as a man to get prostate cancer if your father or brothers had it. Whether or not you've had someone in your family who's had prostate cancer, I'd really recommend taking the test. After all, it only takes 30 seconds.