1 00:00:00,667 --> 00:00:04,087 And when I got to the door, he took me by the arm, walked me around 2 00:00:04,087 --> 00:00:08,008 the corner, backed me up against the wall, and then he just kind of leaned over me 3 00:00:08,008 --> 00:00:11,011 and he told me what you did was wrong. 4 00:00:11,302 --> 00:00:12,971 And if you're ever going to be the kind of person 5 00:00:12,971 --> 00:00:15,890 I thought you were going to be when you are an adult, 6 00:00:15,890 --> 00:00:20,020 you have a lot to learn about how to relate to people 7 00:00:20,186 --> 00:00:23,189 and how to deal with problems and what you're going to do now. 8 00:00:23,189 --> 00:00:26,192 You're going to go back in the shop, you're going to find that shop foreman, 9 00:00:26,526 --> 00:00:28,820 you're going to apologize to him for what you just said, 10 00:00:28,820 --> 00:00:30,905 and you're going to tell him that you are willing to drive 11 00:00:30,905 --> 00:00:34,200 that front end loader as long as you need to the way it is. 12 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,287 And if he ever gets it into the shop to fix it, you'll say, thank you. 13 00:00:43,710 --> 00:00:44,502 Well Merle 14 00:00:44,502 --> 00:00:48,298 Burkholder, thanks for coming on the Anabaptist Perspectives podcast. 15 00:00:48,631 --> 00:00:52,719 You have a lot of varied life experience. 16 00:00:52,802 --> 00:00:55,555 Been in ministry for something like 45 years. 17 00:00:55,555 --> 00:00:57,015 Served in church leadership. 18 00:00:57,015 --> 00:00:59,350 You've traveled quite a bit in ministry. 19 00:00:59,350 --> 00:01:00,977 all around the world. 20 00:01:00,977 --> 00:01:04,397 And As we were prepping for these episodes, we were thinking, you know what? 21 00:01:04,522 --> 00:01:06,107 What are some topics we can do with you? 22 00:01:06,107 --> 00:01:09,402 And one thing I know about you is you're a bit of a storyteller. 23 00:01:09,402 --> 00:01:12,072 and, and people really enjoy your stories. 24 00:01:12,072 --> 00:01:14,741 And so we're like, well, it'd be great to, to do some stories with you. 25 00:01:14,741 --> 00:01:18,703 And one of the things you've worked on is things 26 00:01:18,703 --> 00:01:21,706 you've learned throughout your life from these different experiences. So. 27 00:01:22,165 --> 00:01:24,000 Maybe a little different than our typical episode, 28 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,503 where I have a topic and ask all these questions and things. 29 00:01:26,503 --> 00:01:29,881 I would like to just hear some of those lessons and some of those stories. 30 00:01:30,048 --> 00:01:33,051 So however you'd like to begin and wherever you'd like to go with it. 31 00:01:33,384 --> 00:01:36,137 and we'll just, see where it takes us. 32 00:01:36,137 --> 00:01:38,056 Okay. Thank you Reagan. Yeah. 33 00:01:38,056 --> 00:01:41,226 God has given me the opportunity 34 00:01:41,226 --> 00:01:44,229 to do a lot of things in life that have been interesting, and. 35 00:01:45,146 --> 00:01:47,357 And, I am a storyteller, so 36 00:01:48,650 --> 00:01:50,819 that, is true. 37 00:01:50,819 --> 00:01:52,028 but here's some things. 38 00:01:52,028 --> 00:01:55,782 one of the things that I've learned in life is that 39 00:01:56,407 --> 00:01:57,992 there will be misunderstandings. 40 00:01:57,992 --> 00:02:00,870 I will misunderstand other people, and other 41 00:02:00,870 --> 00:02:03,790 people will understand me, misunderstand me. 42 00:02:03,790 --> 00:02:07,460 And trust is so foundational to just 43 00:02:08,962 --> 00:02:11,131 trust that 44 00:02:11,131 --> 00:02:14,134 people's intentions are good and that, 45 00:02:14,259 --> 00:02:17,262 there's probably things I just didn't, didn't understand. 46 00:02:17,303 --> 00:02:21,266 things that that, happened 47 00:02:21,266 --> 00:02:26,271 that I, I misunderstood what was what was being said. 48 00:02:26,312 --> 00:02:28,690 I think about one time, 49 00:02:28,690 --> 00:02:32,360 in Canada, there was a man that I would buy firewood from, 50 00:02:32,861 --> 00:02:35,864 and we lived about ten miles outside of town. 51 00:02:36,364 --> 00:02:38,616 and he would bring my firewood out there 52 00:02:38,616 --> 00:02:41,619 and, and then we were going to move 53 00:02:41,744 --> 00:02:43,913 into town. 54 00:02:43,913 --> 00:02:49,002 And so he came, brought me a load of firewood, and we were talking and he said, 55 00:02:50,044 --> 00:02:52,338 I hear you're moving out of the country. 56 00:02:52,338 --> 00:02:54,966 And I'm thinking, oh, he knows I'm from the United States. 57 00:02:54,966 --> 00:02:56,843 And he thinks I'm moving back to the United States. 58 00:02:56,843 --> 00:02:59,596 And I was like, no, I'm not moving out of the country. 59 00:02:59,596 --> 00:03:01,973 And and he was like, well, that's what I heard. 60 00:03:01,973 --> 00:03:05,476 I heard you're moving out of the country and it's, No, we're just moving into town. 61 00:03:05,476 --> 00:03:06,686 And he said, that's what I said. 62 00:03:06,686 --> 00:03:09,022 You're moving out of the country. And I was like. 63 00:03:09,022 --> 00:03:10,732 Oh, yeah, well, yeah. 64 00:03:10,732 --> 00:03:14,694 I am moving out of the country and and, I realize, you know, I, 65 00:03:15,236 --> 00:03:17,030 I totally misunderstood. 66 00:03:17,030 --> 00:03:19,782 I put my own assumption onto what 67 00:03:19,782 --> 00:03:22,785 he was saying. 68 00:03:23,203 --> 00:03:25,663 because I'm thinking I'm sensitive 69 00:03:25,663 --> 00:03:30,126 about being a dual citizen, sensitive about being an American living in Canada. 70 00:03:30,126 --> 00:03:33,880 And and so I my mind immediately went to he thinks I'm moving back 71 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,757 to the, to the United States. 72 00:03:37,425 --> 00:03:38,218 another time 73 00:03:38,218 --> 00:03:41,721 I think about was, well, we lived in Haiti 74 00:03:41,721 --> 00:03:44,724 for a year, and, 75 00:03:45,058 --> 00:03:48,061 we were, we were, 76 00:03:48,645 --> 00:03:51,648 building a church building when we got there, 77 00:03:52,273 --> 00:03:54,776 the people knew that 78 00:03:54,776 --> 00:03:57,779 the mission had land to build a church on, and they had the money 79 00:03:57,779 --> 00:03:58,571 to build the church. 80 00:03:58,571 --> 00:04:03,534 And so they automatically assume that this American family's coming here. 81 00:04:03,534 --> 00:04:05,078 And so they're going to build the church. 82 00:04:05,078 --> 00:04:09,874 And so after I got enough of language ability, people started asking me, 83 00:04:09,874 --> 00:04:11,251 when are you going to start building the church? 84 00:04:11,251 --> 00:04:12,877 And I was like, I don't know anything about a church. 85 00:04:12,877 --> 00:04:15,088 I'm not building a church building. I'm not a builder. 86 00:04:15,088 --> 00:04:16,673 You don't want me to build a church building. 87 00:04:16,673 --> 00:04:19,259 It's not going to be good. 88 00:04:19,259 --> 00:04:25,431 And, and, so they were, they were disappointed. 89 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,017 And I was disappointed because they were disappointed. 90 00:04:28,017 --> 00:04:32,105 And so we talked about it and I said, well, in Canada, 91 00:04:32,105 --> 00:04:35,775 if that was the case, what we would do is we would hire a contractor 92 00:04:35,775 --> 00:04:39,654 to supervise it, and we would get together and we'd volunteer, 93 00:04:39,654 --> 00:04:43,992 and we would build the church building under the supervision of a contractor. 94 00:04:43,992 --> 00:04:46,327 And and there was a man in the church that was a mason. 95 00:04:47,662 --> 00:04:48,162 Let me talk to 96 00:04:48,162 --> 00:04:51,165 the mission and see if they'll hire him to supervise it. 97 00:04:51,165 --> 00:04:53,376 And we could have workdays and we could all work together 98 00:04:53,376 --> 00:04:54,919 and we could build a church building. 99 00:04:54,919 --> 00:04:56,587 So the mission was agreed, and they were. 100 00:04:56,587 --> 00:04:59,132 And so we started building a church building. 101 00:04:59,132 --> 00:05:01,342 It was 36 by 72. 102 00:05:01,342 --> 00:05:03,970 And we had to dig a foundation. 103 00:05:03,970 --> 00:05:10,101 We had to dig a footer, about 48in deep and to hit the subsoil. 104 00:05:10,643 --> 00:05:11,936 We didn't have any power equipment. 105 00:05:11,936 --> 00:05:13,855 Everything was done by hand. 106 00:05:13,855 --> 00:05:15,523 And so we worked and worked. 107 00:05:15,523 --> 00:05:16,941 after about a month, 108 00:05:16,941 --> 00:05:21,154 we were up to ground level and and then, we went on from there. 109 00:05:21,529 --> 00:05:24,699 But every week we would have a workday, 110 00:05:24,699 --> 00:05:27,702 when everybody would come and and work together on the church. 111 00:05:27,744 --> 00:05:30,163 There was one man in the church that had a job. 112 00:05:30,163 --> 00:05:32,040 He had a formal job, 113 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,334 he was highly respected because he had a job. 114 00:05:34,334 --> 00:05:37,462 Most people well, he was the only one in the church that had a job. 115 00:05:38,004 --> 00:05:40,798 And he worked from Monday to Thursday, had off Friday, 116 00:05:40,798 --> 00:05:43,760 Saturday, Sunday and could never get a day off. 117 00:05:44,093 --> 00:05:47,138 So at the end of the service one Sunday, the 118 00:05:47,930 --> 00:05:50,475 pastor said, okay, on Tuesday we're going to have a work day 119 00:05:50,475 --> 00:05:54,604 and who can come raise your hand if you can come help with the workday. 120 00:05:54,604 --> 00:05:57,607 So I noticed that Brother Jeremy raised his hand. 121 00:05:57,732 --> 00:05:59,025 I thought, That's interesting. 122 00:05:59,025 --> 00:06:01,319 I didn't know he could get a day off of work, 123 00:06:01,319 --> 00:06:04,364 and but apparently he's he's going to come. 124 00:06:05,406 --> 00:06:06,324 So after 125 00:06:06,324 --> 00:06:10,328 church, I met him before he went home and I said, okay, I'll see you on Tuesday. 126 00:06:10,328 --> 00:06:12,538 And he's like, Tuesday, Tuesday, what's Tuesday? 127 00:06:12,538 --> 00:06:14,248 And I said, well, the workday. 128 00:06:14,248 --> 00:06:17,210 Oh, he said, I can't come, I'm working. 129 00:06:17,210 --> 00:06:20,546 And I said, well, I saw that you raised your hand and said 130 00:06:20,546 --> 00:06:21,506 you were going to come. Oh. 131 00:06:21,506 --> 00:06:24,509 He said, well, I raised my hand because I'm a church member 132 00:06:24,509 --> 00:06:28,971 and I should come and I want to come, but I can't, and everybody knows I can’t. 133 00:06:29,389 --> 00:06:33,684 but I'm just saying that I would come if I could and I'm willing to come and. 134 00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:36,229 But everybody knows I can't come. 135 00:06:36,229 --> 00:06:38,189 So that's interesting. 136 00:06:38,189 --> 00:06:40,983 So I asked the pastor, 137 00:06:40,983 --> 00:06:43,653 I saw that Brother Jeremy raised his hand and said he's, 138 00:06:43,653 --> 00:06:46,948 you know, for the workday and, and, but do you think he's going to come? No. 139 00:06:46,948 --> 00:06:48,074 He said he's not going to come. 140 00:06:48,074 --> 00:06:50,827 He said he works and he can't get a day off. 141 00:06:50,827 --> 00:06:52,495 But he said it's really good he raises his hand 142 00:06:52,495 --> 00:06:56,249 because then everybody knows that he would come if he could and he wants to come. 143 00:06:56,249 --> 00:06:58,334 And then the people who can come, 144 00:06:58,334 --> 00:07:01,671 They realize, well, yeah, he would come so I can so I should. 145 00:07:01,671 --> 00:07:04,549 So he said he gets more people's hands up and it's good he raises his hand. 146 00:07:04,549 --> 00:07:06,175 So I was like, okay. 147 00:07:07,218 --> 00:07:09,053 So then the workday came 148 00:07:09,053 --> 00:07:12,682 and I thought, I'm going to ask some other people. 149 00:07:12,682 --> 00:07:15,560 So I would get beside some of the men and there's no trees there. 150 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,395 We're all working in the hot sun and 151 00:07:17,395 --> 00:07:19,021 and you know, it would have been nice to have a few more people. 152 00:07:19,021 --> 00:07:20,940 And so I'd get beside different men. 153 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:21,858 And I would say, 154 00:07:21,858 --> 00:07:25,570 you know, this is really hard work and, it's hot here and we could use 155 00:07:25,570 --> 00:07:28,656 more people and I'd try to get them in a negative frame of mind. 156 00:07:28,656 --> 00:07:32,702 And then I would say, and you know what I saw on Sunday that brother Jeremy 157 00:07:32,702 --> 00:07:36,456 raised his hand and said he was going to come and help with the work project, 158 00:07:36,456 --> 00:07:39,959 but I haven't seen him and you know, have you seen him? 159 00:07:40,251 --> 00:07:41,294 No, and. 160 00:07:41,294 --> 00:07:44,630 and every one of those men, without fail, they would say to me, 161 00:07:44,630 --> 00:07:46,174 you shouldn't talk like that. 162 00:07:46,174 --> 00:07:47,842 Like he would come if he could. 163 00:07:47,842 --> 00:07:51,679 And he raises his hand because he wants to come, but he can't. 164 00:07:52,555 --> 00:07:55,850 And I realized I was the only person in that church that thought 165 00:07:56,517 --> 00:07:59,395 that because he raised his hand, he was physically going to come 166 00:08:00,563 --> 00:08:02,106 and help with the work project. 167 00:08:02,106 --> 00:08:05,193 Everybody else knew it just meant he wants to come, 168 00:08:05,193 --> 00:08:07,695 and he would if he could. 169 00:08:07,695 --> 00:08:09,989 But I didn't understand culturally. 170 00:08:09,989 --> 00:08:15,578 I didn't understand what was what that what raising his hand really meant. 171 00:08:15,578 --> 00:08:20,374 And, you know, sometimes we get into other cultural situations 172 00:08:20,374 --> 00:08:24,712 and we see things and we interpret it in one way, but maybe everybody else 173 00:08:24,712 --> 00:08:29,258 interprets it a different way and we can start saying, well, people lie. 174 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:32,303 They say they're going to come and then they don't come and, and, 175 00:08:32,512 --> 00:08:35,598 but maybe, maybe we didn't understand what was really being said. 176 00:08:35,598 --> 00:08:38,851 And, and and then we lose trust. 177 00:08:38,851 --> 00:08:41,395 And when trust is lost, 178 00:08:41,395 --> 00:08:45,733 then relationships really nosedive and things go downhill and 179 00:08:46,192 --> 00:08:49,695 and eventually it can become almost irreconcilable. 180 00:08:49,695 --> 00:08:50,613 And so, 181 00:08:52,615 --> 00:08:54,283 communicating and finding 182 00:08:54,283 --> 00:08:58,329 out, what didn't I, where there things here that I didn't understand 183 00:08:58,829 --> 00:09:01,832 and or did I misunderstand what you were saying? 184 00:09:02,625 --> 00:09:05,378 And that can clear up a lot of, 185 00:09:05,378 --> 00:09:08,965 a lot of mis just misunderstandings and, 186 00:09:09,507 --> 00:09:13,219 and often the things that we think people mean 187 00:09:14,136 --> 00:09:16,514 when it doesn't seem right isn't what they meant at all. 188 00:09:16,514 --> 00:09:18,891 And, and communication is the solution to that. 189 00:09:18,891 --> 00:09:22,228 And just being able to talk and just ask people, well, what do you mean? 190 00:09:22,228 --> 00:09:24,855 What were you trying to say? 191 00:09:24,855 --> 00:09:27,233 can clear up a lot of those things. 192 00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:30,444 Like not jumping to conclusions right, or assumptions 193 00:09:30,444 --> 00:09:33,990 or judgment of that person until you know more, right. 194 00:09:34,323 --> 00:09:38,828 So what other lessons would you would you have? 195 00:09:39,078 --> 00:09:42,081 Well, another one would be that I'm not always right. 196 00:09:42,623 --> 00:09:46,419 And, I need I need guides and I need the Holy Spirit’s 197 00:09:46,961 --> 00:09:49,797 guidance in, in my life. 198 00:09:49,797 --> 00:09:52,800 And there are times when I need people 199 00:09:53,092 --> 00:09:56,596 to tell me when I've been, when I've been wrong. 200 00:09:57,930 --> 00:10:00,099 I grew up in a bit of a business family. 201 00:10:00,099 --> 00:10:04,061 My dad had was partners in a business, and it was a concrete 202 00:10:05,229 --> 00:10:05,980 business. 203 00:10:05,980 --> 00:10:09,609 And so I would work in his business, 204 00:10:09,650 --> 00:10:12,653 in the summers when I wasn't in school. 205 00:10:13,946 --> 00:10:14,614 And I was probably 206 00:10:14,614 --> 00:10:17,617 the stereotypical boss's son, I thought I had a lot more authority 207 00:10:17,617 --> 00:10:21,871 and power than I did, because after all, I eat dinner with the boss every night. 208 00:10:21,871 --> 00:10:24,582 So maybe you should pay attention to me. And what I say and what I think. 209 00:10:24,582 --> 00:10:28,711 And so I think I was a little arrogant and, and, 210 00:10:29,795 --> 00:10:32,340 I had a bit of a overrated opinion of myself. 211 00:10:32,340 --> 00:10:35,343 And one summer I was driving front end loader 212 00:10:35,718 --> 00:10:37,762 and there was a cement salesman that came into that business. 213 00:10:37,762 --> 00:10:41,724 He came every week and he would sell my dad's cement. 214 00:10:42,391 --> 00:10:45,936 And when he would come in the summertime when I was there, 215 00:10:45,936 --> 00:10:49,106 he would go in the office and talk to my dad about buying cement, 216 00:10:49,106 --> 00:10:52,068 and then he'd come out in the plant and find me and and, 217 00:10:52,443 --> 00:10:54,737 he would take me to the break room and buy me a mountain dew. 218 00:10:54,737 --> 00:11:00,493 And he talked to me, and and he would take me to places and do stuff with me. 219 00:11:00,493 --> 00:11:02,620 And I knew he didn't have to do that to sell cement. 220 00:11:02,620 --> 00:11:04,955 I knew he I knew he liked me for some reason. 221 00:11:04,955 --> 00:11:07,124 And I was 14 and he was 50. 222 00:11:07,124 --> 00:11:11,504 And it was just it was a significant relationship for me. 223 00:11:11,504 --> 00:11:15,132 And so I was driving this front end loader and there was a problem 224 00:11:15,132 --> 00:11:16,342 with the steering. 225 00:11:16,342 --> 00:11:20,513 And I had talked to the shop foreman about fixing it and nothing was happening. 226 00:11:21,806 --> 00:11:24,016 So I was kind of frustrated about that. 227 00:11:24,016 --> 00:11:27,520 And one day the steering wheel spun around 228 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,063 and there was a knob on the steering wheel, 229 00:11:29,063 --> 00:11:32,858 and it hit me on my crazy bone in my elbow, and I was like... 230 00:11:33,442 --> 00:11:36,737 So I jumped off of the front end loader, went into the shop 231 00:11:36,737 --> 00:11:39,740 and I found the shop foreman and, and, 232 00:11:40,658 --> 00:11:43,577 I told him what I thought of his ability to schedule things 233 00:11:43,577 --> 00:11:46,580 in the shop and fix things, and I just told him how it was and 234 00:11:47,206 --> 00:11:49,458 and how or I, how I thought it was. 235 00:11:49,458 --> 00:11:53,295 And then I turned around to go out of the shop, 236 00:11:53,963 --> 00:11:56,298 and there was Sam, this cement salesman 237 00:11:56,298 --> 00:11:59,427 standing in the doorway, and he had seen the whole thing. 238 00:12:00,177 --> 00:12:03,597 And when I got to the door, he took me by the arm, walked me around 239 00:12:03,597 --> 00:12:07,518 the corner, backed me up against the wall, and then he just kind of leaned over me 240 00:12:07,518 --> 00:12:10,521 and he told me what you did was wrong. 241 00:12:10,813 --> 00:12:12,481 And if you're ever going to be the kind of person 242 00:12:12,481 --> 00:12:15,401 I thought you were going to be when you are an adult, 243 00:12:15,401 --> 00:12:19,530 you have a lot to learn about how to relate to people 244 00:12:19,697 --> 00:12:22,700 and how to deal with problems and what you're going to do now. 245 00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:25,703 You're going to go back in the shop, you're going to find that shop foreman, 246 00:12:26,036 --> 00:12:28,330 you're going to apologize to him for what you just said, 247 00:12:28,330 --> 00:12:30,416 and you're going to tell him that you are willing to drive 248 00:12:30,416 --> 00:12:33,711 that front end loader as long as you need to the way it is. 249 00:12:33,711 --> 00:12:36,797 And if he ever gets it into the shop to fix it, you'll say, thank you. 250 00:12:37,715 --> 00:12:40,301 And he said, I'm going with you. So. 251 00:12:40,301 --> 00:12:43,596 So we went into the shop and I found the shop foreman. 252 00:12:43,804 --> 00:12:47,099 I apologized, I told him, I'll drive the front end loader 253 00:12:47,099 --> 00:12:50,686 as long as I need to the way it is, and if he ever fixes it, I'll say thank you. 254 00:12:50,853 --> 00:12:52,605 And then Sam took me to the break 255 00:12:52,605 --> 00:12:55,316 room, bought me a mountain dew, and everything was fine. 256 00:12:55,316 --> 00:12:57,193 But that was tremendously valuable. 257 00:12:57,193 --> 00:12:59,153 I hadn't seen him. 258 00:12:59,153 --> 00:13:02,907 He could have walked away and said, well, I guess Merle's not going to be 259 00:13:02,907 --> 00:13:04,617 the kind of person I thought he was going to be, and. 260 00:13:04,617 --> 00:13:07,578 But he cared enough about me to take me around the corner 261 00:13:07,787 --> 00:13:11,123 and tell me what I had done wrong, how to fix it, and then 262 00:13:11,123 --> 00:13:15,211 go with me to actually actually fix it. 263 00:13:15,377 --> 00:13:17,546 And I need people like that. 264 00:13:17,546 --> 00:13:20,216 in, in my life. 265 00:13:22,134 --> 00:13:23,886 probably another story, probably, 266 00:13:25,012 --> 00:13:28,474 25 years ago, my wife and I were in 267 00:13:29,099 --> 00:13:33,938 we were facing a decision that she knew in 30s what we should do. 268 00:13:33,938 --> 00:13:36,649 And it took me about three months to figure it out, 269 00:13:36,649 --> 00:13:40,110 because I felt like I was in a situation where 270 00:13:40,986 --> 00:13:43,989 no matter what I did, I was going to violate something 271 00:13:43,989 --> 00:13:47,159 that I really believed in and that I tried to live by. 272 00:13:47,159 --> 00:13:49,328 And so I just couldn't. 273 00:13:49,328 --> 00:13:51,497 I couldn't make a decision. 274 00:13:51,497 --> 00:13:53,249 And I was stuck. 275 00:13:53,249 --> 00:13:55,459 And it affected our relationship. 276 00:13:55,459 --> 00:13:58,462 It was a difficult time. And, 277 00:13:58,838 --> 00:14:00,548 so during that time 278 00:14:00,548 --> 00:14:05,511 we were going to visit a, we were came to the States 279 00:14:05,511 --> 00:14:11,308 and we were going to visit a couple that, is about 20 years older than us. And, 280 00:14:12,393 --> 00:14:13,686 this man's been, 281 00:14:13,686 --> 00:14:17,773 you know, a man who I talked to and, like, who I knew cared about me. 282 00:14:17,773 --> 00:14:21,443 And and so I thought, okay, we're going to be at their house. 283 00:14:21,443 --> 00:14:22,611 I'm going to tell him 284 00:14:22,611 --> 00:14:24,822 this whole situation, and I'm just going to do 285 00:14:24,822 --> 00:14:28,325 whatever he tells me to do, so that's what I'm going to do. 286 00:14:28,576 --> 00:14:31,537 So we went and, 287 00:14:31,537 --> 00:14:34,123 our wives went shopping and we're sitting in the living room. 288 00:14:34,123 --> 00:14:39,003 So I told him my whole sad story and where it was at with this decision, 289 00:14:39,003 --> 00:14:43,674 and he just kind of leaned back in his chair and said, well, you'll be all right. 290 00:14:44,091 --> 00:14:46,468 Like my wife and I went through something like that 291 00:14:46,468 --> 00:14:49,847 when we were about your age, and and, you'll be okay. 292 00:14:50,598 --> 00:14:53,601 And I thought he didn't understand what I said, like, 293 00:14:53,601 --> 00:14:58,647 no, I'm not going to be okay, like, I need I just need him to tell me what to do. 294 00:14:58,647 --> 00:15:01,400 And so I told him the whole thing again. I said, so what shall I do? 295 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,527 And he just kind of said, you'll be okay. 296 00:15:03,527 --> 00:15:08,532 and we went through something like that to and and you'll be all right. 297 00:15:09,491 --> 00:15:10,326 Well, I went away from that. 298 00:15:10,326 --> 00:15:11,243 I was really frustrated. 299 00:15:11,243 --> 00:15:12,620 I was like, come on. 300 00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:14,788 Like I was going to I was ready to do whatever he told me to do. 301 00:15:14,788 --> 00:15:16,206 And then he doesn't tell me anything. 302 00:15:16,206 --> 00:15:18,792 And, and, that wasn't helpful at all. 303 00:15:18,792 --> 00:15:20,002 And I was kind of upset about it. 304 00:15:20,002 --> 00:15:23,005 And then about three days later, I thought, wait a minute. 305 00:15:23,047 --> 00:15:24,381 Like, what did he say? 306 00:15:24,381 --> 00:15:27,134 He said, when I was your age, 307 00:15:27,134 --> 00:15:30,596 we went through something like similar and you'll be okay. 308 00:15:30,596 --> 00:15:35,517 So he's from his perspective now, 20 years later, he's not even worried about me. 309 00:15:36,477 --> 00:15:40,189 And so probably 20 years from now, I'll look back on this decision and say, well, 310 00:15:40,773 --> 00:15:42,066 it turned out all right. 311 00:15:42,066 --> 00:15:44,693 And I just needed, I just need to make a decision. 312 00:15:44,693 --> 00:15:49,031 And, and that helped me to get off center and get unstuck 313 00:15:49,698 --> 00:15:52,701 and feel like I can decide something. 314 00:15:52,701 --> 00:15:55,829 But it was that perspective 315 00:15:55,829 --> 00:16:00,084 from a little further down the road that helped me to. 316 00:16:00,084 --> 00:16:02,252 So I just needed that encouragement 317 00:16:02,252 --> 00:16:05,172 and that confidence that you're going to be okay. 318 00:16:05,172 --> 00:16:08,592 don't don't worry about it. 319 00:16:08,926 --> 00:16:12,888 and then we, we have those people 320 00:16:12,888 --> 00:16:16,141 who are influential in our lives and who are directed to us, 321 00:16:16,976 --> 00:16:19,186 and then we also get to do that for other people. 322 00:16:19,186 --> 00:16:21,021 and we get to, 323 00:16:22,898 --> 00:16:24,984 we get to, 324 00:16:24,984 --> 00:16:28,278 to give guidance and some input and direction to other people 325 00:16:28,278 --> 00:16:33,534 because the whole principle, the book of Proverbs, is that wisdom 326 00:16:33,534 --> 00:16:36,620 can be passed on from one generation to another, and that 327 00:16:37,538 --> 00:16:40,582 but we only do that if we're willing to invest in the lives 328 00:16:40,582 --> 00:16:45,254 of other people, and we're willing to some of what we receive, we pass on 329 00:16:46,338 --> 00:16:47,464 to others. 330 00:16:47,464 --> 00:16:51,176 So there was a man that there is a man that I've known for, 331 00:16:52,261 --> 00:16:53,637 probably 40 years now. 332 00:16:53,637 --> 00:16:57,182 And, when he was nine years old, 333 00:16:58,142 --> 00:17:00,769 his dad was a, 334 00:17:00,769 --> 00:17:02,229 a Mennonite pastor. 335 00:17:02,229 --> 00:17:05,399 But when he when this man was nine years old, his dad came home, 336 00:17:06,442 --> 00:17:09,194 gave him a bag of candy and said, I'm leaving. 337 00:17:09,194 --> 00:17:10,195 I'm never coming back. 338 00:17:10,195 --> 00:17:13,615 You're the man of the house now and left and never came back. 339 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,244 Well, this man and I have had a lot of conversations 340 00:17:17,244 --> 00:17:21,331 about the impact of that in his life and just living without a father, and 341 00:17:22,374 --> 00:17:26,462 how that affected, affected his ability to make decisions and just his own sense 342 00:17:26,462 --> 00:17:32,051 of confidence and direction in life and and the pain that he experienced as, 343 00:17:32,134 --> 00:17:36,305 a child and as a growing into adulthood 344 00:17:36,305 --> 00:17:39,308 without a father in his home. And, 345 00:17:39,349 --> 00:17:42,853 and it was just devastating for him. 346 00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:47,524 Well, almost unbelievably, when his he had three boys 347 00:17:47,524 --> 00:17:50,527 and when his sons were about the age 348 00:17:51,195 --> 00:17:55,657 that he had been when his father left, he left 349 00:17:55,657 --> 00:17:59,119 his wife and moved in with another woman. 350 00:17:59,828 --> 00:18:02,289 And I just couldn't hardly believe it. 351 00:18:02,289 --> 00:18:06,627 I just and his wife came to our house with her three boys 352 00:18:07,628 --> 00:18:09,463 said she doesn't know what to do 353 00:18:09,463 --> 00:18:12,466 and she knew where he was. 354 00:18:13,258 --> 00:18:14,218 and the town 355 00:18:14,218 --> 00:18:17,638 where he was was about three hours from where we lived. 356 00:18:17,638 --> 00:18:20,057 And she knew he worked in the grocery store. 357 00:18:20,057 --> 00:18:23,060 Well, I, 358 00:18:23,393 --> 00:18:25,145 after a couple days, 359 00:18:25,145 --> 00:18:27,856 I decided I'm not going to let him do that. 360 00:18:27,856 --> 00:18:32,653 Like, he he knows what his dad did. 361 00:18:32,653 --> 00:18:35,030 And I'm, I'm not going to let him repeat that. 362 00:18:35,030 --> 00:18:38,033 So I went over. Drove over there. 363 00:18:38,534 --> 00:18:41,703 I walked into the grocery store, and I found him there stocking shelves. 364 00:18:42,287 --> 00:18:45,290 And so I asked him, what are you doing here? 365 00:18:45,582 --> 00:18:46,667 He said, I'm working here. 366 00:18:46,667 --> 00:18:51,505 I tell him, well your wife and sons are at my house. 367 00:18:51,672 --> 00:18:56,009 And you know how you felt when your dad left. 368 00:18:57,010 --> 00:19:00,556 And I don't think you want to do that to your boys. 369 00:19:01,098 --> 00:19:02,683 it's just wrong. 370 00:19:02,683 --> 00:19:07,938 And so you need to come back with me... 371 00:19:08,522 --> 00:19:12,568 figure out whatever you need to do with your wife and get things resolved. And 372 00:19:13,735 --> 00:19:15,571 and be with your family. 373 00:19:15,571 --> 00:19:17,865 No, he said, I'm not not going to do that. 374 00:19:17,865 --> 00:19:20,868 And, I said, well, 375 00:19:22,161 --> 00:19:25,622 you know, it's the right thing to do, and you know, what you're doing is wrong. 376 00:19:26,123 --> 00:19:29,334 And, so why can't you come back? 377 00:19:29,334 --> 00:19:31,044 And he said, well, I'm working here. 378 00:19:31,044 --> 00:19:32,546 I have a job. 379 00:19:32,546 --> 00:19:33,714 I said, yeah. 380 00:19:33,714 --> 00:19:35,757 And up in the corner of the store is the office. 381 00:19:35,757 --> 00:19:39,094 And two weeks ago you walked in here and you asked that man for a job, 382 00:19:39,761 --> 00:19:43,015 and he gave you a job, but what you did was wrong. 383 00:19:43,015 --> 00:19:46,018 And what you're going to do now is you're going to go up to the office 384 00:19:46,476 --> 00:19:48,645 and you're going to tell that man, you can't work here anymore 385 00:19:48,645 --> 00:19:51,815 because you're getting back together with your wife and you're leaving town. 386 00:19:51,815 --> 00:19:55,235 And if he's any kind of a man, he'll respect you for what you're doing. 387 00:19:56,528 --> 00:19:58,864 So. And I said, I'm going with you. 388 00:19:58,864 --> 00:20:02,367 And, so we went up to the office and he quit his job. 389 00:20:02,367 --> 00:20:05,662 And then he said, well, I have to go get my stuff at the house. 390 00:20:05,662 --> 00:20:07,289 And he said, that woman's going to kill me. 391 00:20:07,289 --> 00:20:07,915 No, she's not. 392 00:20:07,915 --> 00:20:10,792 I'll run interference with her. And, you get your stuff. 393 00:20:10,792 --> 00:20:14,963 And so we went over to the house, got his stuff, and went back and, and, 394 00:20:14,963 --> 00:20:18,050 and he and his wife got 395 00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:21,053 together, talked about their issues, and, 396 00:20:21,929 --> 00:20:23,305 you know, he and his wife are still together today. 397 00:20:23,305 --> 00:20:25,349 It hasn't been a 398 00:20:25,349 --> 00:20:28,310 an easy road, but. 399 00:20:28,435 --> 00:20:31,438 And he and I have talked about it a number of times how 400 00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:36,193 his children's experience is so different from what his was. 401 00:20:36,568 --> 00:20:40,072 And he knows his grandchildren and he's there with his family. 402 00:20:41,281 --> 00:20:43,909 But we when people 403 00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:46,912 do things, when we experience things and we can 404 00:20:47,663 --> 00:20:51,792 we can do those things for other people as well, and it just becomes part of 405 00:20:52,793 --> 00:20:56,046 generationally helping each other to to walk on 406 00:20:56,546 --> 00:20:59,341 a good path. 407 00:20:59,341 --> 00:21:01,927 But I need guides and so do others. 408 00:21:01,927 --> 00:21:05,722 And I can be part of, of, receiving guidance 409 00:21:05,722 --> 00:21:07,724 and input and correction and also giving it. 410 00:21:07,724 --> 00:21:08,976 Yeah. 411 00:21:08,976 --> 00:21:11,979 It's, it sounds like you were given a gift 412 00:21:12,187 --> 00:21:15,774 at one point in your life of some correction 413 00:21:15,774 --> 00:21:18,777 when you needed it, and then you're taking that 414 00:21:18,777 --> 00:21:22,447 on to the next in your own life and doing that for others. 415 00:21:22,739 --> 00:21:23,949 Yeah. 416 00:21:23,949 --> 00:21:28,328 It's not easy to do to do what you did, but it was it just 417 00:21:28,453 --> 00:21:31,456 this is the right thing to do, and I need to stand for what's right. 418 00:21:31,623 --> 00:21:34,626 And it was also somebody that I knew really, really well. 419 00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:37,713 so I wouldn't have done that for just anybody. 420 00:21:37,713 --> 00:21:40,507 But yeah, I did know this man really well. 421 00:21:41,842 --> 00:21:43,635 That's powerful though. 422 00:21:43,635 --> 00:21:44,261 That's powerful though. 423 00:21:44,261 --> 00:21:46,555 yeah. What other what other lessons? 424 00:21:46,555 --> 00:21:50,017 Well, a wise man told me one time, you'll never make yourself 425 00:21:50,017 --> 00:21:51,393 happy with your own money. 426 00:21:51,393 --> 00:21:53,979 You can make other people happy with your money, 427 00:21:53,979 --> 00:21:56,940 but you'll never make yourself happy with your own money. 428 00:21:56,940 --> 00:21:58,108 That's. 429 00:21:58,108 --> 00:21:59,026 Ooh, I like that. 430 00:21:59,026 --> 00:22:01,361 That's pretty profound, actually. 431 00:22:01,361 --> 00:22:01,903 And I. 432 00:22:01,903 --> 00:22:03,363 And I think that's true. 433 00:22:03,363 --> 00:22:05,282 And there are people that chase wealth 434 00:22:05,282 --> 00:22:07,743 and think that, well, if I just have a little more. 435 00:22:07,743 --> 00:22:09,578 I have this or that than I'd be. 436 00:22:09,578 --> 00:22:11,371 Then I'd be happy. 437 00:22:11,371 --> 00:22:13,874 And, it's a false narrative. 438 00:22:13,874 --> 00:22:15,042 It's not really true. 439 00:22:15,042 --> 00:22:19,671 It's, it's it's, it's a false dream to chase, 440 00:22:19,671 --> 00:22:22,924 to think that wealth is going to bring bring happiness. 441 00:22:25,594 --> 00:22:26,762 of course, we spent most of 442 00:22:26,762 --> 00:22:29,806 our lives in, in ministry, 443 00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:34,936 I have never, I haven't done things in life because of how much it pays. 444 00:22:34,936 --> 00:22:38,690 And, so, Yeah. 445 00:22:39,149 --> 00:22:41,443 Never have been, never will be a wealthy person. 446 00:22:41,443 --> 00:22:44,863 But, when we lived in Dryden, 447 00:22:44,863 --> 00:22:48,533 there was a, a couple there business couple that we related to, 448 00:22:49,576 --> 00:22:52,496 and it was a wealthy business couple 449 00:22:52,496 --> 00:22:55,707 and, and, he was an agnostic. 450 00:22:56,625 --> 00:22:59,920 he felt like, well, he believed that you can't know if God exists. 451 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:01,755 Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't. 452 00:23:01,755 --> 00:23:04,758 And you don't find out until you die, and then it's too late. 453 00:23:05,133 --> 00:23:10,430 So. And he and I had a lot of conversations about it, but, anyway, 454 00:23:10,430 --> 00:23:13,767 that was he maintained that that position 455 00:23:14,726 --> 00:23:17,437 he got in his strategy was that he would get involved in the church 456 00:23:17,437 --> 00:23:21,525 just enough that if he died and God did exist, he thought he'd be okay, 457 00:23:21,983 --> 00:23:25,237 but not too much so that if he died and God didn't exist, 458 00:23:25,237 --> 00:23:27,406 he hadn't wasted a lot of time and money in the church. 459 00:23:27,406 --> 00:23:31,076 So that was sort of his his strategy and. 460 00:23:31,660 --> 00:23:35,914 Odd philosophy Yeah, but it was kind of how he, he lived life. 461 00:23:36,164 --> 00:23:39,543 And then and we had been to their we'd go to their house for dinner, 462 00:23:39,543 --> 00:23:42,546 they'd come to our house for dinner some times and, and, 463 00:23:42,879 --> 00:23:47,217 and we enjoyed talking to each other and, and then we went to Haiti. 464 00:23:47,217 --> 00:23:48,718 We lived in Haiti for a year. 465 00:23:48,718 --> 00:23:50,762 And when we came back from Haiti, 466 00:23:52,180 --> 00:23:53,473 he said, Merle, I want to 467 00:23:53,473 --> 00:23:57,394 have you come over to my cottage and, and, talk about Haiti. 468 00:23:57,686 --> 00:24:01,189 So he said, I'll meet you up by the Trans-Canada highway because it's 469 00:24:01,189 --> 00:24:02,816 a little challenging to find my cottage. 470 00:24:02,816 --> 00:24:04,943 And so he did, 471 00:24:04,943 --> 00:24:05,861 and it was good. 472 00:24:05,861 --> 00:24:07,571 He did, because there were a lot of turns back, 473 00:24:07,571 --> 00:24:09,990 these little gravel roads back to his cottage on the lake. 474 00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:13,869 And, and my problem started when he met me by the Trans-Canada highway 475 00:24:13,869 --> 00:24:17,205 because he was driving a Jaguar, and I was driving 476 00:24:17,205 --> 00:24:20,459 a Ford Escort station wagon that wasn't too new. And, 477 00:24:21,668 --> 00:24:24,880 looking at his car and thinking, you know, we parked beside him 478 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,340 when we got to his cottage and I'm looking in his car 479 00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:28,967 and thinking, that's a real car. 480 00:24:28,967 --> 00:24:31,094 And like, I wonder what wonder what he thinks of my car. 481 00:24:31,094 --> 00:24:34,181 And I wonder what it feels like to drive a Jaguar like that. 482 00:24:34,431 --> 00:24:35,640 That would be. 483 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:36,850 That would really be something. 484 00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:39,311 And, then went to their cottage. 485 00:24:39,311 --> 00:24:40,812 Well, their cottage, we'd been to their house, 486 00:24:40,812 --> 00:24:41,980 but this was their cottage, 487 00:24:41,980 --> 00:24:44,983 and their cottage was bigger and nicer than my house and that. 488 00:24:44,983 --> 00:24:47,110 Oh, this is yeah, this is really nice. 489 00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:49,029 And then he said, well, dinner's 490 00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:52,073 not quite ready yet, so, I'll take your family sailing. 491 00:24:52,073 --> 00:24:54,576 while we wait for dinner to be ready. 492 00:24:54,576 --> 00:24:58,371 So he had a 40ft sailboat, and we went out on the lake sailing, and 493 00:24:59,164 --> 00:25:01,374 and I'm out on the lake with him sailing and I’m thinking, you know, 494 00:25:01,374 --> 00:25:04,377 this is how a person ought to live. This is. 495 00:25:04,419 --> 00:25:06,338 This is the way life should be done. 496 00:25:06,338 --> 00:25:10,300 You have the jaguar, the cottage, the sailboat. 497 00:25:10,300 --> 00:25:13,428 And this is this is living. 498 00:25:13,428 --> 00:25:16,431 This is this is how life should be done. 499 00:25:16,932 --> 00:25:19,684 And then we go back into the dock and 500 00:25:19,684 --> 00:25:23,063 and we were going to have dinner down on the dock and, and he said, now 501 00:25:23,063 --> 00:25:24,481 we're going to have dinner down here on the dock. 502 00:25:24,481 --> 00:25:27,609 And, but after dinner we're going to go up to the cottage and talk about Haiti and, 503 00:25:28,318 --> 00:25:30,237 but we have a Jacuzzi on the dock. 504 00:25:30,237 --> 00:25:32,113 And so if your children want to go in the Jacuzzi 505 00:25:32,113 --> 00:25:33,823 while we go talk about Haiti, they could do that. 506 00:25:33,823 --> 00:25:36,243 And I'm thinking, now, he has a Jacuzzi, too. 507 00:25:36,243 --> 00:25:41,289 And and, so we're there, and we had steak and baked potatoes, 508 00:25:41,289 --> 00:25:42,541 and my steak and baked 509 00:25:42,541 --> 00:25:45,585 potato didn't taste very good because I was feeling sorry for myself. 510 00:25:45,585 --> 00:25:50,590 And I'm thinking, you know, like, I don't have anything like he has it all. 511 00:25:50,590 --> 00:25:54,553 He has the Jaguar, the sailboat, the cottage, the jacuzzi, and 512 00:25:55,178 --> 00:25:56,763 and I had nothing. 513 00:25:56,763 --> 00:26:00,016 And the problem is, the way I'm living my life, I never will, 514 00:26:00,016 --> 00:26:02,394 and I even have to go to somebody else's house to eat steak. 515 00:26:02,394 --> 00:26:05,397 And it's just like my life is so miserable. 516 00:26:05,438 --> 00:26:07,566 And, then we get up to the cottage 517 00:26:08,733 --> 00:26:09,734 and we're talking about Haiti. 518 00:26:09,734 --> 00:26:11,987 And partway through the conversation, 519 00:26:11,987 --> 00:26:14,573 he turned to his wife and said, you know what, Pat? 520 00:26:14,573 --> 00:26:17,576 We should have got more involved in the church. 521 00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:20,328 because he said, we never have done anything for anybody. 522 00:26:20,328 --> 00:26:23,290 We travel, but we just go look at stuff and come home. 523 00:26:23,290 --> 00:26:26,167 And he said, look at the things that Marle and his family did. 524 00:26:26,167 --> 00:26:27,627 Like, we don't know anything about that. 525 00:26:27,627 --> 00:26:29,462 Like we've never done anything like that. 526 00:26:29,462 --> 00:26:34,134 And you know, I just kind of find it kind of felt God talking to me and saying, 527 00:26:34,134 --> 00:26:34,509 you know what? 528 00:26:34,509 --> 00:26:35,218 Like you were down there 529 00:26:35,218 --> 00:26:38,430 crying into your steak and baked potato and feeling sorry for yourself, 530 00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:41,433 but actually, if anybody should feel sorry for themself, it's him. 531 00:26:41,558 --> 00:26:44,978 Because, yeah, he has all the stuff. 532 00:26:45,186 --> 00:26:51,276 but he's never really done anything of significance, for people. 533 00:26:52,694 --> 00:26:55,488 And, you know, if I get to the end of my life and I had lived 70 534 00:26:55,488 --> 00:27:00,493 or 80 years, and all I had was a sailboat and a Jaguar and a Jacuzzi, it's not. 535 00:27:00,910 --> 00:27:03,913 It's not enough. Like it's not worth it. 536 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,708 and the world's filled with people that are 45, 537 00:27:06,708 --> 00:27:10,420 50 years old that met all their financial goals and are bored 538 00:27:10,754 --> 00:27:13,757 and don't know what to do with the rest of their life. And 539 00:27:14,466 --> 00:27:18,428 so chasing wealth is just kind of a it's a phantom 540 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,932 and we'll never make ourselves happy with with the pursuit of wealth 541 00:27:23,141 --> 00:27:28,396 and the things that make a difference for eternity are the things that are really 542 00:27:29,105 --> 00:27:32,108 fulfilling and. 543 00:27:32,609 --> 00:27:33,652 You know, the 544 00:27:33,652 --> 00:27:38,114 the path that God takes us on is it's a, it's a it's a life of adventure, 545 00:27:38,448 --> 00:27:41,534 because you don't know what he has coming next. 546 00:27:41,534 --> 00:27:45,163 And we'd like to have the 20 year plan, but he doesn't do that. 547 00:27:45,372 --> 00:27:50,085 And, and so it's it's exciting because you never know 548 00:27:50,085 --> 00:27:54,756 what God has around next year or that round the next bend. 549 00:27:54,756 --> 00:27:57,384 And it's also fulfilling because you realize 550 00:27:58,343 --> 00:28:01,346 it's making a difference for for eternity. 551 00:28:01,888 --> 00:28:05,308 So, I think you had something, 552 00:28:06,309 --> 00:28:08,478 something powerful there where you said money, 553 00:28:08,478 --> 00:28:11,981 our own money won't, won't make us happy, but it can make other people 554 00:28:11,981 --> 00:28:17,195 happy in this sense of you can use it in service to others. 555 00:28:17,529 --> 00:28:20,323 Do you want to elaborate on that statement at all? 556 00:28:20,323 --> 00:28:23,618 Well, I think of, like 557 00:28:23,618 --> 00:28:27,789 when people have have needs and we are generous and give, 558 00:28:28,415 --> 00:28:31,418 we can bless people in their moment of need 559 00:28:32,001 --> 00:28:36,548 and what they experience is 560 00:28:36,548 --> 00:28:39,759 way beyond the joy of what we'll experience by keeping it. 561 00:28:40,301 --> 00:28:44,055 And so it's true what Jesus said, that 562 00:28:44,055 --> 00:28:47,809 it's more blessed to give than than to receive. 563 00:28:48,309 --> 00:28:52,814 And in the church community, that giving and that caring for one another is 564 00:28:52,814 --> 00:28:58,236 just there's a blessing there that that is really, really powerful. 565 00:28:59,529 --> 00:29:00,655 When we lived in Haiti. 566 00:29:00,655 --> 00:29:04,033 one Sunday morning in Sunday 567 00:29:04,033 --> 00:29:08,997 school, the lesson in Sunday school was, I've been young and I've been old, 568 00:29:08,997 --> 00:29:12,000 but I've never seen the righteous forsaken or his seed begging bread. 569 00:29:12,917 --> 00:29:16,337 And the people were like, yeah, that's right, that's that's true. 570 00:29:16,546 --> 00:29:21,342 And so that afternoon I was talking to the, the Haitian pastor, 571 00:29:21,718 --> 00:29:24,637 and I said to him now we had that verse in Sunday School, 572 00:29:24,637 --> 00:29:25,764 I've been young and I've been old 573 00:29:25,764 --> 00:29:28,767 and I've never seen the righteous forsaken or his seed begging bread. 574 00:29:29,225 --> 00:29:33,229 But you and I both have people coming to our house every day asking for food. 575 00:29:33,730 --> 00:29:37,066 So? So how can you say, yeah, that's true. 576 00:29:37,734 --> 00:29:40,820 When we have people. 577 00:29:41,821 --> 00:29:44,824 coming every day asking for food. 578 00:29:44,908 --> 00:29:47,202 So they are begging bread, right? 579 00:29:47,202 --> 00:29:51,039 And he's like, no, what you're what you're thinking is wrong. 580 00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:54,834 He was saying, you will never see a person in our church 581 00:29:55,335 --> 00:29:58,296 at the market begging from the public. 582 00:29:58,338 --> 00:30:01,716 But we do tell each other what we need and we give to each other 583 00:30:02,133 --> 00:30:03,343 and we help each other. 584 00:30:03,343 --> 00:30:05,470 And so you will never see 585 00:30:05,470 --> 00:30:08,765 one of our church members begging bread from the general public. 586 00:30:08,973 --> 00:30:12,560 and there's that dignity in being able to give to someone else 587 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:13,645 in their time of need 588 00:30:14,854 --> 00:30:18,316 that brings joy and and, yeah. 589 00:30:19,984 --> 00:30:23,363 To both, to both us as a giver and to the person who receives it. 590 00:30:24,239 --> 00:30:27,116 That's so powerful because of the deception 591 00:30:27,116 --> 00:30:30,745 that comes with wealth is, is really hard to untangle. 592 00:30:30,954 --> 00:30:31,246 Yeah. 593 00:30:31,246 --> 00:30:34,999 Because it can feel like such a solution to life's problems. 594 00:30:34,999 --> 00:30:37,252 And maybe it's a, it's, 595 00:30:37,252 --> 00:30:39,629 I heard someone say money doesn't solve all your problems. 596 00:30:39,629 --> 00:30:43,800 It does solve money problems, but it doesn't solve the really deep things 597 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:44,217 in life. 598 00:30:44,217 --> 00:30:47,762 You know, the search for joy and meaning and fulfillment and purpose. 599 00:30:48,805 --> 00:30:49,764 wow. That's that's. 600 00:30:49,764 --> 00:30:51,391 There's a lot to unpack there. 601 00:30:51,391 --> 00:30:51,891 Yeah. 602 00:30:51,891 --> 00:30:55,687 I will say I'm glad you didn't, go for the sailboat and the Jacuzzi 603 00:30:55,687 --> 00:30:58,147 and the cabin because I feel like. Wow. 604 00:30:58,147 --> 00:31:01,234 You know how many of these stories that you have wouldn't even exist 605 00:31:01,359 --> 00:31:02,443 if you'd went that route? 606 00:31:02,443 --> 00:31:02,610 What other lessons do you have? 607 00:31:02,610 --> 00:31:04,279 What other lessons do you have? 608 00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:09,492 Well, I think, another one is, there is a god, and it's not me. 609 00:31:09,826 --> 00:31:12,912 And, God is sovereign. 610 00:31:13,288 --> 00:31:15,039 He knows what he's doing. 611 00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:18,376 And the reassurance is 612 00:31:18,376 --> 00:31:22,046 not only is he sovereign, but he's good and he loves me. 613 00:31:23,006 --> 00:31:23,798 And so 614 00:31:23,798 --> 00:31:27,427 there are things that have not gone the way I thought they should go. 615 00:31:27,677 --> 00:31:31,306 And in Romans chapter 11 it talks about, you know, who is God's 616 00:31:31,306 --> 00:31:34,267 counselor, who's been his counselor, or who understands the mind of God. 617 00:31:35,143 --> 00:31:38,563 Well, I've had times when I was God's counselor. 618 00:31:38,563 --> 00:31:40,690 I told him what I thought he should do. 619 00:31:40,690 --> 00:31:42,650 And, and he doesn't... 620 00:31:42,650 --> 00:31:44,485 He doesn't always do it. 621 00:31:44,485 --> 00:31:47,322 And he doesn't do things the way I think it should be done. 622 00:31:47,322 --> 00:31:51,284 but I rest in that he knows what he's doing. 623 00:31:51,284 --> 00:31:52,911 I don't know what he knows. 624 00:31:52,911 --> 00:31:58,958 And, And he he's good, and he loves me, but, 625 00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:02,629 there are things that just, didn't go 626 00:32:03,963 --> 00:32:05,632 the way I thought they. 627 00:32:05,632 --> 00:32:07,717 They should go. And sometimes we misunderstand 628 00:32:08,676 --> 00:32:09,677 who God is. 629 00:32:09,677 --> 00:32:14,349 Back when we lived in Dryden, 630 00:32:15,183 --> 00:32:19,312 I was on the board of the food bank, and it was just, a little. 631 00:32:19,312 --> 00:32:23,691 We rented a room that was just a small, small room. 632 00:32:23,733 --> 00:32:26,194 And the grocery stores donated all the food. 633 00:32:26,194 --> 00:32:29,948 And so our budget was basically the rental of, of the room, 634 00:32:30,490 --> 00:32:34,744 but we were giving food to between 90 and 100 families a week. 635 00:32:34,744 --> 00:32:37,789 Out of that, out of that space that we had. 636 00:32:38,414 --> 00:32:39,290 But we had plans. 637 00:32:39,290 --> 00:32:42,669 We wanted to do Bible studies and financial literacy classes 638 00:32:42,669 --> 00:32:45,672 and cooking classes, but we had no room to do it. 639 00:32:46,005 --> 00:32:50,593 So we thought, well, rather than rent a bigger space, we should buy a building, 640 00:32:51,177 --> 00:32:54,639 and then we'd be able to do all those all those things. 641 00:32:54,639 --> 00:32:58,059 So we looked around at buildings and, buildings the size 642 00:32:58,059 --> 00:33:01,396 we needed at that time would have been maybe $150,000. 643 00:33:01,396 --> 00:33:04,399 So we started a building fund and and we started talking 644 00:33:04,399 --> 00:33:07,402 to people about money for the building fund. 645 00:33:07,568 --> 00:33:10,780 And we weren't getting very much because people didn't 646 00:33:10,780 --> 00:33:13,866 think we were going to be able to raise $150,000. 647 00:33:13,866 --> 00:33:18,788 So we wound up after a number of months with maybe around $3,000. 648 00:33:18,788 --> 00:33:19,664 And, 649 00:33:20,707 --> 00:33:22,542 so we're thinking, oh, you know, the thing 650 00:33:22,542 --> 00:33:25,545 is, and there were people who would say, well, when you get close, let me know. 651 00:33:25,545 --> 00:33:27,213 Yeah, I want to help you. 652 00:33:27,213 --> 00:33:31,759 when you get close, let me know and I'll give you something and so. 653 00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:33,845 But they didn't want to give us $5,000 or $10,000. 654 00:33:33,845 --> 00:33:35,471 Just have it sit in a bank account forever. 655 00:33:35,471 --> 00:33:39,809 So, at the point where they realized we were going to make it, 656 00:33:39,809 --> 00:33:41,644 then they were going to help us. 657 00:33:41,644 --> 00:33:42,311 So we thought, you know what? 658 00:33:42,311 --> 00:33:46,399 We need somebody who will give us a donation of $25,000 659 00:33:46,816 --> 00:33:48,609 that will kickstart our building fund. 660 00:33:48,609 --> 00:33:50,987 And if we would have $25,000 in our building fund, 661 00:33:50,987 --> 00:33:53,740 then we could go back to all those people and say, okay, we're 662 00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:54,532 we're going to make it. 663 00:33:54,532 --> 00:33:57,035 so this is the time to help. 664 00:33:57,035 --> 00:34:01,664 So we were praying for somebody to give us, $25,000. 665 00:34:01,664 --> 00:34:03,833 And during that time we had a, 666 00:34:04,751 --> 00:34:04,876 there 667 00:34:04,876 --> 00:34:08,171 was a trade show in Dryden, and the food bank had a booth at the trade show. 668 00:34:08,171 --> 00:34:12,675 And as board members, we were taking turns manning the booth at the trade show. 669 00:34:13,426 --> 00:34:16,888 So, I was taking my turn, 670 00:34:17,263 --> 00:34:21,142 and this man came by and he looks at the booth and goes, oh, the food bank. 671 00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:23,144 Tell me about the food bank. 672 00:34:23,144 --> 00:34:26,856 So I told him about the food bank, and he said, what do you need? 673 00:34:27,523 --> 00:34:30,526 And I said, well, we need spaghetti. 674 00:34:30,943 --> 00:34:33,529 and he said, how much spaghetti do you need? 675 00:34:33,529 --> 00:34:35,323 I said, I don't know, but I'll give me your phone number 676 00:34:35,323 --> 00:34:39,410 and I'll call you and I'll find out and I'll tell you how much spaghetti we need. 677 00:34:39,410 --> 00:34:42,163 So, okay, I'll see that you have all the spaghetti you need. 678 00:34:42,163 --> 00:34:44,373 So he said, what else do you need? 679 00:34:44,373 --> 00:34:47,376 Well, we could use macaroni and cheese. 680 00:34:47,418 --> 00:34:49,837 And he's like, well, how much of that do you need? 681 00:34:49,837 --> 00:34:50,129 I don't know. 682 00:34:50,129 --> 00:34:51,339 When I call you about the spaghetti, 683 00:34:51,339 --> 00:34:53,966 I'll tell you about the macaroni and Cheese too. 684 00:34:53,966 --> 00:34:55,301 So he was like Okay. 685 00:34:55,301 --> 00:34:58,846 And, then he started walking away, and he got maybe 20ft away. 686 00:34:58,846 --> 00:35:01,808 And then he came back and he said, do you know who I am? 687 00:35:01,808 --> 00:35:03,643 And I was like, no, not really. 688 00:35:03,643 --> 00:35:06,437 I've seen you around town, but I don't really know who you are. 689 00:35:06,437 --> 00:35:10,316 And he said, well, I own a restaurant here in town, 690 00:35:10,316 --> 00:35:13,611 and my wife is a doctor, and we've been in town about five years. 691 00:35:13,611 --> 00:35:16,656 And he said, I'd like to give back to the community. 692 00:35:16,656 --> 00:35:20,576 And, and, I always thought the food bank would be a great way to do it 693 00:35:20,576 --> 00:35:23,538 because I'm in the food business and you're in the food business 694 00:35:23,538 --> 00:35:26,749 and we're Christians and you're a Christian organization. 695 00:35:26,749 --> 00:35:28,209 And so I just thought it was a perfect fit. 696 00:35:28,209 --> 00:35:30,378 But I never met anybody from the food bank before. 697 00:35:30,378 --> 00:35:34,590 And and so he said, this is the first time I've ever met 698 00:35:34,590 --> 00:35:37,051 anybody from the food bank. And so I was interested. 699 00:35:37,051 --> 00:35:38,386 And in what do you need? 700 00:35:38,386 --> 00:35:40,805 I said, well, do you want to know what we really need? 701 00:35:40,805 --> 00:35:42,849 And he said, yeah, I've been trying to find out 702 00:35:42,849 --> 00:35:44,725 for the last 20 minutes and you won't tell me. 703 00:35:44,725 --> 00:35:47,895 And so I explained the whole building thing to him and, 704 00:35:48,437 --> 00:35:49,814 and he's like, well, what's the problem? 705 00:35:49,814 --> 00:35:52,358 And I said, well, people don't think we're going to make it. 706 00:35:52,358 --> 00:35:54,235 And he said, well, how much do you need? 707 00:35:54,235 --> 00:35:57,155 So we need $150,000 and we have a building fund. 708 00:35:57,155 --> 00:36:00,032 But he said, how much is in it? So we have 3000. 709 00:36:00,032 --> 00:36:02,285 And he just laughed at me and he said, so 710 00:36:02,285 --> 00:36:05,746 you're looking at $150,000 buildings and you only have 3000. 711 00:36:05,872 --> 00:36:06,330 Yeah. 712 00:36:06,330 --> 00:36:07,999 Because we know God's going to give us some money. 713 00:36:07,999 --> 00:36:09,041 We just don't know when. 714 00:36:09,041 --> 00:36:12,670 And we want to be ready so that when he does, we're ready to buy a building. 715 00:36:13,838 --> 00:36:16,424 So he said, well, what's the problem? 716 00:36:16,424 --> 00:36:19,093 So I told him that people don't have the confidence we're going to raise it. 717 00:36:19,093 --> 00:36:20,386 And we've been praying for somebody 718 00:36:20,386 --> 00:36:23,472 to give us $25,000 to kickstart our building fund. 719 00:36:24,432 --> 00:36:27,226 And he said, my wife and I will do that. 720 00:36:27,226 --> 00:36:29,103 And I said, I'm not joking. 721 00:36:29,103 --> 00:36:31,189 And he said, I'm not either. You have my phone number, right? 722 00:36:31,189 --> 00:36:33,274 I said, yeah, he said, call me when you're ready for the money. 723 00:36:33,274 --> 00:36:35,443 And so I did, and he gave the money. 724 00:36:35,443 --> 00:36:37,945 And today the food bank has a building. 725 00:36:37,945 --> 00:36:40,948 But, you know, sometimes I think when we're done 726 00:36:41,032 --> 00:36:45,119 praying, God would like to turn around and say, like, do you know who I am? 727 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,873 I think we're asking for the spaghetti 728 00:36:48,873 --> 00:36:52,835 and macaroni and cheese of life, and and God's interested in those things. 729 00:36:52,835 --> 00:36:56,923 But but we're talking to the person who is the sovereign of the universe. 730 00:36:57,965 --> 00:36:58,925 And and 731 00:36:58,925 --> 00:37:02,553 there's things that no human being can do for us that he can, 732 00:37:03,429 --> 00:37:05,556 and just bring those things to him 733 00:37:05,556 --> 00:37:08,184 as as the King of kings 734 00:37:08,184 --> 00:37:11,187 and Lord of lords, the person he really is. 735 00:37:12,063 --> 00:37:14,148 but then he doesn't always do things the way we think. 736 00:37:14,148 --> 00:37:17,902 We had, my wife and I had a, 737 00:37:18,903 --> 00:37:21,322 well, we helped with a Sunday school on the reserve, 738 00:37:21,322 --> 00:37:24,325 and, on the reservation, 739 00:37:24,367 --> 00:37:27,828 and we tried to have, an adult Sunday school class, 740 00:37:27,828 --> 00:37:28,829 but the only adults 741 00:37:28,829 --> 00:37:32,375 that would come were people that would come and a few couple of ladies 742 00:37:32,375 --> 00:37:33,834 that would come when they were intoxicated. 743 00:37:33,834 --> 00:37:39,548 So, then we went to home Bible studies, and we started doing home Bible studies. 744 00:37:39,548 --> 00:37:41,842 And my wife had a ladies Bible study. 745 00:37:41,842 --> 00:37:46,055 There were a couple of ladies that came to the Lord and became Christians. 746 00:37:46,055 --> 00:37:51,018 And, one of those ladies was the daughter of one of the ladies 747 00:37:51,018 --> 00:37:53,354 who would come to Sunday school, when she was intoxicated. 748 00:37:54,605 --> 00:37:57,400 So she was quite concerned about her mother. 749 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,361 And and we were praying for her mother and, 750 00:38:00,903 --> 00:38:03,030 and then one day her mother was found 751 00:38:03,030 --> 00:38:07,326 passed out in a house and unresponsive, went to the hospital 752 00:38:07,326 --> 00:38:11,706 and things just started going downhill for her. 753 00:38:11,706 --> 00:38:13,291 And she got worse and worse. 754 00:38:13,291 --> 00:38:15,918 And, and, 755 00:38:15,918 --> 00:38:18,921 her daughter, who had become a Christian, was quite concerned about 756 00:38:19,964 --> 00:38:21,424 her mother's eternal destiny. 757 00:38:21,424 --> 00:38:26,095 And, and her mother had gone to, Catholic school as a child. 758 00:38:26,095 --> 00:38:29,307 She and, of course, we had had interaction with her. 759 00:38:29,307 --> 00:38:30,599 She knew the gospel. 760 00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:35,646 And, we were, praying for her salvation. 761 00:38:35,938 --> 00:38:40,109 And I told her daughter, you know, they say that 762 00:38:40,109 --> 00:38:43,946 when a person dies, one of the last senses they lose is their hearing. 763 00:38:44,071 --> 00:38:46,157 And so your mother can probably hear us. 764 00:38:46,157 --> 00:38:49,160 And so we went to the hospital room 765 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,330 and we talked to her, and I told her, 766 00:38:53,122 --> 00:38:56,625 you know, you know, the way of salvation, like, 767 00:38:56,625 --> 00:39:01,964 you know about the Lord Jesus Christ, and you can receive Christ in your mind. 768 00:39:01,964 --> 00:39:04,592 You can you can give your life to Christ. 769 00:39:04,592 --> 00:39:07,803 And you know you're not well. And 770 00:39:09,388 --> 00:39:10,431 before you die, you 771 00:39:10,431 --> 00:39:14,435 can you can be sure of where you're going when you die. 772 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,480 And, so I said, I'm going to pray a prayer 773 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,566 and you can pray the prayer with me in your mind 774 00:39:20,775 --> 00:39:23,778 and, and receive Christ. 775 00:39:24,236 --> 00:39:27,990 So I did, and and because there was no response. 776 00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:30,868 And then her daughter wanted to know, 777 00:39:30,868 --> 00:39:32,661 so did she do that? 778 00:39:32,661 --> 00:39:36,290 Like I, I don't want her to die without me knowing 779 00:39:37,208 --> 00:39:41,045 where she's going and what, where she's going to spend eternity. 780 00:39:41,045 --> 00:39:45,424 And so we were praying and I was asking God, like, just have her become conscious 781 00:39:45,424 --> 00:39:49,887 for 30s or something just so she can let her daughter know 782 00:39:51,514 --> 00:39:53,432 whether she 783 00:39:53,432 --> 00:39:54,767 accepted Christ or not. 784 00:39:54,767 --> 00:39:59,647 And one day we were in her room and just telling her, like we, 785 00:39:59,939 --> 00:40:04,360 your daughter really wants to know if you become a Christian and 786 00:40:05,361 --> 00:40:05,694 if you 787 00:40:05,694 --> 00:40:08,697 have, if you could just squeeze my hand. 788 00:40:08,906 --> 00:40:11,033 but there was nothing. 789 00:40:11,033 --> 00:40:13,911 Well, she died, and I was really mad. 790 00:40:13,911 --> 00:40:14,995 I was really angry. 791 00:40:14,995 --> 00:40:17,415 I was like, God, that was really bad. 792 00:40:17,415 --> 00:40:19,583 Here's this lady 793 00:40:19,583 --> 00:40:20,459 who is a new believer. 794 00:40:20,459 --> 00:40:24,213 All she wants to know is where her mother is for eternity. 795 00:40:24,213 --> 00:40:26,882 You could have had her become conscious for 30s. 796 00:40:26,882 --> 00:40:30,886 You could have had her squeeze my hand and you didn't like that... 797 00:40:32,179 --> 00:40:33,514 That wasn't good. 798 00:40:33,514 --> 00:40:35,516 And, 799 00:40:35,516 --> 00:40:40,104 well, in their community, after a person died 800 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,483 within a week or so, somebody would have a dream about them 801 00:40:44,525 --> 00:40:48,237 and they would say, well, I saw that I had a dream about them last night, 802 00:40:48,237 --> 00:40:50,906 and they were in a good place. They were happy and and, 803 00:40:51,949 --> 00:40:55,077 and so then, then people would be okay. 804 00:40:55,077 --> 00:40:57,830 So they're okay now and, and 805 00:40:57,830 --> 00:41:00,708 well, nobody was having a dream about this lady. 806 00:41:00,708 --> 00:41:03,252 And, went a few weeks, then went a month. 807 00:41:03,252 --> 00:41:08,382 And people started to talk about it like, why isn't anybody dreaming about her? 808 00:41:08,382 --> 00:41:10,634 What where did she go, what happened to her? 809 00:41:10,634 --> 00:41:13,429 And and why is nobody dreaming about her? 810 00:41:13,429 --> 00:41:17,016 And then after about two months, there was an old old man. 811 00:41:17,016 --> 00:41:19,894 And in their community, the elders are just highly respected. 812 00:41:19,894 --> 00:41:24,857 And this very old man came to her daughter and said, last night 813 00:41:24,857 --> 00:41:28,152 I had a dream about your mother, and she was in a good place. 814 00:41:28,152 --> 00:41:29,695 She was happy, 815 00:41:29,695 --> 00:41:32,698 and she had one of those things on her head that the Sunday school teachers wear. 816 00:41:33,365 --> 00:41:39,163 And, because it had become a topic of conversation in the village 817 00:41:39,705 --> 00:41:43,959 about why nobody was having a dream about this lady, then that story spread. 818 00:41:44,627 --> 00:41:48,422 All. Over and everybody heard it, and everybody 819 00:41:48,964 --> 00:41:52,176 interpreted the fact that she had that thing on her head, that 820 00:41:52,176 --> 00:41:55,596 the Sunday School teachers wear, as she chose to go the Christian way, 821 00:41:56,263 --> 00:41:59,391 and it was just it was so powerful. 822 00:41:59,391 --> 00:42:03,979 And I was like, oh, like, if she would have squeezed my hand 823 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,315 and we would have told people that they would have said, 824 00:42:06,315 --> 00:42:09,777 yeah, lots of people twitch when they die and it wouldn't have 825 00:42:10,402 --> 00:42:13,906 it wouldn't have had any impact in the in the community. 826 00:42:14,448 --> 00:42:18,786 But the way God did that, it was like everybody, 827 00:42:19,453 --> 00:42:22,873 everybody was sure that she had chosen 828 00:42:23,832 --> 00:42:24,875 the Christian way, and it was 829 00:42:24,875 --> 00:42:28,879 just so much better than what what I would have done. 830 00:42:29,505 --> 00:42:32,049 And then we had, well. 831 00:42:32,049 --> 00:42:35,052 We were praying for a man in the village to become a Christian, 832 00:42:35,427 --> 00:42:37,721 and I had some guys that I thought were pretty good prospects. 833 00:42:37,721 --> 00:42:38,681 They were pretty good people, 834 00:42:38,681 --> 00:42:42,226 and I thought it wouldn't take much for them to get saved. 835 00:42:42,226 --> 00:42:45,104 And so I'd be fishing with them and doing stuff with them. 836 00:42:45,104 --> 00:42:49,400 But I couldn't get them interested in studying the Bible and, and, 837 00:42:49,984 --> 00:42:51,986 and then a man, 838 00:42:51,986 --> 00:42:55,781 came to Christ who was an alcoholic. 839 00:42:55,781 --> 00:43:00,911 He would deal drugs and, and, he came to Christ and his wife got saved. 840 00:43:00,911 --> 00:43:03,247 And so I started doing a Bible study with them. 841 00:43:03,247 --> 00:43:04,665 And he was the kind of person that 842 00:43:05,916 --> 00:43:07,626 nobody in the village could say, yeah, 843 00:43:07,626 --> 00:43:09,545 it'll work for him, but it won't work for me. 844 00:43:09,545 --> 00:43:12,339 Like, it was like, if he got saved, turned his life around. 845 00:43:12,339 --> 00:43:14,133 Anybody can. 846 00:43:14,133 --> 00:43:15,175 So we're. 847 00:43:15,175 --> 00:43:17,344 So then we said, okay, let's put our Bible studies together. 848 00:43:17,344 --> 00:43:18,804 My wife had this ladies Bible study. 849 00:43:18,804 --> 00:43:21,807 I was doing Bible study with this couple and let's put them together. 850 00:43:22,057 --> 00:43:24,977 So we're going to put our Bible studies together. 851 00:43:24,977 --> 00:43:27,980 And I took out a list of Bible study books that we had. 852 00:43:28,355 --> 00:43:30,774 And so we're going to choose a book that we're going to do. 853 00:43:30,774 --> 00:43:34,111 And so I'm trying to direct them to something 854 00:43:34,111 --> 00:43:37,781 in the New Testament like the Gospel of John or something like that. 855 00:43:37,781 --> 00:43:38,574 And so we're 856 00:43:38,574 --> 00:43:42,369 going through the list and we, we had a Bible study book on Leviticus, 857 00:43:42,995 --> 00:43:46,749 and this guy, this man was like, so what's Leviticus about? 858 00:43:46,749 --> 00:43:51,587 And I said, it's no, you don't want to study Leviticus. 859 00:43:51,587 --> 00:43:52,546 Well, what's it about? 860 00:43:52,546 --> 00:43:56,050 I said well, it's about sacrifices and dietary 861 00:43:56,050 --> 00:43:59,970 rules and, and and he sounds interesting. 862 00:43:59,970 --> 00:44:03,265 I said it's not like, believe me, it's not interesting. 863 00:44:03,849 --> 00:44:06,226 And so I'm trying to get them to 864 00:44:06,226 --> 00:44:09,229 we could do John or we could do this or that and 865 00:44:09,313 --> 00:44:12,858 but he kept saying well, I still think Leviticus sounds interesting. 866 00:44:12,858 --> 00:44:16,779 And then one of the ladies was like, well I sort of think Leviticus 867 00:44:16,779 --> 00:44:17,821 would be interesting too? 868 00:44:17,821 --> 00:44:19,907 And I realized I'm going to lose this. 869 00:44:19,907 --> 00:44:23,160 And so we agreed, okay, we're going to study Leviticus. 870 00:44:23,869 --> 00:44:26,413 And then on the way home, I told my wife, that's a disaster. 871 00:44:26,413 --> 00:44:28,248 Like, I don't even want to study Leviticus. 872 00:44:28,248 --> 00:44:31,752 And here these are new believers and to study Leviticus. 873 00:44:31,752 --> 00:44:32,753 Like, why? 874 00:44:32,753 --> 00:44:35,214 Like it's it's going to fall apart. 875 00:44:35,214 --> 00:44:36,548 We're going to get two weeks into that 876 00:44:36,548 --> 00:44:38,258 and they're going to, they're going to lose interest. 877 00:44:38,258 --> 00:44:42,721 And, but I couldn't, I couldn't persuade them to do anything else. 878 00:44:42,721 --> 00:44:45,557 And, and so we started doing Leviticus. 879 00:44:45,557 --> 00:44:48,644 We got there the first week and we get into Leviticus chapter one. 880 00:44:48,644 --> 00:44:50,145 And it's the sin offering. 881 00:44:50,145 --> 00:44:56,110 And it has to be a lamb a year old without blemish and you bring it. 882 00:44:56,110 --> 00:44:59,446 And the the person who, sacrificing it, 883 00:44:59,446 --> 00:45:03,367 has put his hand on its head and slit its throat and and all that. 884 00:45:03,367 --> 00:45:05,119 And they were like, that's really interesting. 885 00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:07,871 Like we have a sacrifice kind of like that. 886 00:45:07,871 --> 00:45:12,376 It's a different animal, but it has to be, a certain age. 887 00:45:12,376 --> 00:45:14,169 It has to be without any spots. 888 00:45:14,169 --> 00:45:18,382 It and there's a procedure you go through as to how it's killed and, 889 00:45:18,966 --> 00:45:22,803 and and it's, it's to be to atone for sin. 890 00:45:22,803 --> 00:45:25,806 It's the same for the same purpose. 891 00:45:26,014 --> 00:45:28,600 And then we got into the, the grain offering 892 00:45:29,893 --> 00:45:30,310 and they were 893 00:45:30,310 --> 00:45:34,273 like, we have something like that in traditional religion. 894 00:45:34,273 --> 00:45:36,859 Like there's things you have to mix together 895 00:45:36,859 --> 00:45:41,029 and then you do it and it's, it's very similar to, to what this is. 896 00:45:41,029 --> 00:45:45,534 And then we get into, the wave offering where you wave the thing through the smoke 897 00:45:45,534 --> 00:45:46,577 and it's for cleansing. 898 00:45:46,577 --> 00:45:49,246 And they were like, that's like our smudging. 899 00:45:49,246 --> 00:45:53,459 And, and you wave, the smoke over you. 900 00:45:53,459 --> 00:45:54,585 And it's for cleansing. 901 00:45:54,585 --> 00:45:56,920 The purpose of the smoke is the same thing. 902 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:02,551 And and then we got to, some of the laws about personal hygiene 903 00:46:02,551 --> 00:46:05,721 and stuff and the ladies were like, that's what our grandmas told us. 904 00:46:06,138 --> 00:46:08,140 Like they told us that stuff. 905 00:46:08,140 --> 00:46:11,477 And then we got to I think it's chapter 25 906 00:46:11,477 --> 00:46:14,897 where it says you can't own the land because it belongs to God. 907 00:46:14,897 --> 00:46:17,274 And they were like, we've been trying to tell you white people 908 00:46:17,274 --> 00:46:20,319 that for 500 years, and you think you can actually own. 909 00:46:20,319 --> 00:46:23,030 And we knew it belongs to the creator. 910 00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:28,452 Then they started to say, so why is this so similar to our traditional religion? 911 00:46:28,786 --> 00:46:31,121 Why is it so much the same? 912 00:46:31,121 --> 00:46:34,124 And we well, where did you come from? 913 00:46:34,124 --> 00:46:37,211 Like when when human beings came off the ark, there was already 914 00:46:37,211 --> 00:46:40,589 a sacrificial system in place like, Noah sacrificed. 915 00:46:40,589 --> 00:46:45,469 So their people left the ark with a basic sacrificial system. 916 00:46:46,386 --> 00:46:49,389 And that sacrificial system pointed toward Christ. 917 00:46:49,765 --> 00:46:52,768 And so just like the Jewish sacrificial system 918 00:46:52,893 --> 00:46:55,896 that's detailed here and in the Old Testament, 919 00:46:55,896 --> 00:46:58,899 pointed to Christ as the ultimate sacrifice for sin. 920 00:46:59,441 --> 00:47:02,653 The sacrificial system of traditional native religion 921 00:47:02,653 --> 00:47:06,156 points to Christ the need for a sacrifice and points to Christ. 922 00:47:06,156 --> 00:47:09,243 So Christ is the fulfillment of your 923 00:47:09,743 --> 00:47:12,496 traditional religious practices. 924 00:47:12,496 --> 00:47:17,960 And and so this, man that was in the Bible study said, I'm 925 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,921 going down to the medicine man, and I'm going to tell him, you think 926 00:47:21,255 --> 00:47:22,589 that this is our 927 00:47:23,549 --> 00:47:24,716 original religion, but 928 00:47:24,716 --> 00:47:27,719 what you don't know is all this stuff comes from the Bible. 929 00:47:27,761 --> 00:47:30,764 And and it was just like it connected with them, 930 00:47:31,181 --> 00:47:33,767 like a tendency would be for people to think, well, Christianity, 931 00:47:33,767 --> 00:47:35,644 that's the white people's religion. 932 00:47:35,644 --> 00:47:38,856 But all of a sudden it was like, no it's not like it's 933 00:47:39,273 --> 00:47:44,069 our religion pointed us to Christ and we had a sacrificial system 934 00:47:44,653 --> 00:47:45,612 that pointed to Christ. 935 00:47:45,612 --> 00:47:51,493 And it it did something just for their sense of, of inclusion 936 00:47:51,493 --> 00:47:58,292 in the story, and that the Bible story is also about them and about their system. 937 00:47:58,292 --> 00:48:00,252 And so I just realized, you know what? 938 00:48:00,252 --> 00:48:05,382 Like I had plans and I have things that I think ought to be, but God is 939 00:48:06,049 --> 00:48:06,675 like, he’s just. 940 00:48:06,675 --> 00:48:11,305 He knows more than I do, and he has ways of making happen what needs to happen. 941 00:48:12,139 --> 00:48:14,850 And so I just need to rest in. 942 00:48:14,850 --> 00:48:17,853 I'm not God. I don't know what God knows. 943 00:48:17,895 --> 00:48:20,439 And I can't do the things that God can do. 944 00:48:20,439 --> 00:48:23,650 And so he is sovereign, 945 00:48:24,276 --> 00:48:26,862 but he loves me and he's good. 946 00:48:26,862 --> 00:48:32,075 And so I can rest in that even when things don't go the way I think they should. 947 00:48:34,077 --> 00:48:35,037 That's powerful. 948 00:48:35,037 --> 00:48:39,082 And it's also hard because we humans, humans 949 00:48:39,082 --> 00:48:42,461 like to want to be in control of things, you know, or know what's happening. 950 00:48:42,878 --> 00:48:45,464 And, 951 00:48:45,464 --> 00:48:47,758 Yeah, be able to figure everything out. 952 00:48:47,758 --> 00:48:49,968 so learning to rest in that. Wow. 953 00:48:49,968 --> 00:48:51,261 That's a powerful lesson. 954 00:48:51,261 --> 00:48:54,222 And it's probably pretty hard to to live out. 955 00:48:54,222 --> 00:48:55,724 It is. 956 00:48:55,724 --> 00:48:58,727 So, do you have 957 00:48:59,019 --> 00:49:02,064 more stories or anything else you would like to add to this episode? 958 00:49:02,064 --> 00:49:03,857 I think that's that's it. 959 00:49:03,857 --> 00:49:05,525 Wow. Well, thank you for sharing. 960 00:49:05,525 --> 00:49:08,528 and I think there's 961 00:49:08,612 --> 00:49:11,907 a lot of value in people that have had experiences like you've had 962 00:49:11,907 --> 00:49:15,827 and, and done a variety of things and being willing to pass that on. 963 00:49:15,869 --> 00:49:19,164 so I guess that's an encouragement for people listening. 964 00:49:19,164 --> 00:49:21,291 You know, if they have stories of life lessons 965 00:49:21,291 --> 00:49:24,002 they can pass on to the next generation to encourage them to do that. 966 00:49:24,002 --> 00:49:26,964 And and I thank you for, for doing that on this episode. 967 00:49:26,964 --> 00:49:28,256 Yeah. You're welcome. 968 00:49:29,508 --> 00:49:32,511 Thank you for listening to this episode with Merle Burkholder. 969 00:49:32,636 --> 00:49:35,430 If you found this interesting, leave us a rating and review. 970 00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:37,808 It helps more people find this podcast. 971 00:49:37,808 --> 00:49:38,809 And of course, you can find 972 00:49:38,809 --> 00:49:42,562 all our content on our website at anabaptistperspectives.org 973 00:49:42,729 --> 00:49:46,566 We also have an exclusive podcast that's available to people who support us. 974 00:49:46,566 --> 00:49:49,736 For a monthly donation of any amount you can get access 975 00:49:49,736 --> 00:49:53,323 to bonus content and a whole nother stream of content that we release there. 976 00:49:53,365 --> 00:49:56,368 It's available through our website or our Patreon page. 977 00:49:56,576 --> 00:49:59,538 Thanks so much for listening, and we'll catch you in the next episode.