And when I got to the door, he took me by
the arm, walked me around
2
00:00:04,087 --> 00:00:08,008
the corner, backed me up against the wall,
and then he just kind of leaned over me
3
00:00:08,008 --> 00:00:11,011
and he told me what you did was wrong.
4
00:00:11,302 --> 00:00:12,971
And if you're ever going to be
the kind of person
5
00:00:12,971 --> 00:00:15,890
I thought you were going to be
when you are an adult,
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00:00:15,890 --> 00:00:20,020
you have a lot to learn about
how to relate to people
7
00:00:20,186 --> 00:00:23,189
and how to deal with problems
and what you're going to do now.
8
00:00:23,189 --> 00:00:26,192
You're going to go back in the shop,
you're going to find that shop foreman,
9
00:00:26,526 --> 00:00:28,820
you're going to apologize to him
for what you just said,
10
00:00:28,820 --> 00:00:30,905
and you're going to tell him
that you are willing to drive
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00:00:30,905 --> 00:00:34,200
that front end loader
as long as you need to the way it is.
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00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,287
And if he ever gets it into the shop
to fix it, you'll say, thank you.
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00:00:43,710 --> 00:00:44,502
Well Merle
14
00:00:44,502 --> 00:00:48,298
Burkholder, thanks for coming on
the Anabaptist Perspectives podcast.
15
00:00:48,631 --> 00:00:52,719
You have a lot of varied life experience.
16
00:00:52,802 --> 00:00:55,555
Been in ministry
for something like 45 years.
17
00:00:55,555 --> 00:00:57,015
Served in church leadership.
18
00:00:57,015 --> 00:00:59,350
You've traveled quite a bit in ministry.
19
00:00:59,350 --> 00:01:00,977
all around the world.
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00:01:00,977 --> 00:01:04,397
And As we were prepping for these
episodes, we were thinking, you know what?
21
00:01:04,522 --> 00:01:06,107
What are some topics we can do with you?
22
00:01:06,107 --> 00:01:09,402
And one thing I know about you
is you're a bit of a storyteller.
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00:01:09,402 --> 00:01:12,072
and,
and people really enjoy your stories.
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00:01:12,072 --> 00:01:14,741
And so we're like, well, it'd be great
to, to do some stories with you.
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00:01:14,741 --> 00:01:18,703
And one of the things you've worked on
is things
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00:01:18,703 --> 00:01:21,706
you've learned throughout your life
from these different experiences. So.
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00:01:22,165 --> 00:01:24,000
Maybe a little different
than our typical episode,
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00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,503
where I have a topic
and ask all these questions and things.
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00:01:26,503 --> 00:01:29,881
I would like to just hear some of
those lessons and some of those stories.
30
00:01:30,048 --> 00:01:33,051
So however you'd like to begin
and wherever you'd like to go with it.
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00:01:33,384 --> 00:01:36,137
and we'll just, see where it takes us.
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00:01:36,137 --> 00:01:38,056
Okay. Thank you Reagan. Yeah.
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00:01:38,056 --> 00:01:41,226
God has given me the opportunity
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00:01:41,226 --> 00:01:44,229
to do a lot of things in life
that have been interesting, and.
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00:01:45,146 --> 00:01:47,357
And, I am a storyteller, so
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00:01:48,650 --> 00:01:50,819
that, is true.
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00:01:50,819 --> 00:01:52,028
but here's some things.
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00:01:52,028 --> 00:01:55,782
one of the things that I've learned in
life is that
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00:01:56,407 --> 00:01:57,992
there will be misunderstandings.
40
00:01:57,992 --> 00:02:00,870
I will misunderstand other people,
and other
41
00:02:00,870 --> 00:02:03,790
people will understand
me, misunderstand me.
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00:02:03,790 --> 00:02:07,460
And trust is so foundational to just
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00:02:08,962 --> 00:02:11,131
trust that
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00:02:11,131 --> 00:02:14,134
people's intentions are good and that,
45
00:02:14,259 --> 00:02:17,262
there's probably things
I just didn't, didn't understand.
46
00:02:17,303 --> 00:02:21,266
things that that, happened
47
00:02:21,266 --> 00:02:26,271
that I, I misunderstood
what was what was being said.
48
00:02:26,312 --> 00:02:28,690
I think about one time,
49
00:02:28,690 --> 00:02:32,360
in Canada, there was a man
that I would buy firewood from,
50
00:02:32,861 --> 00:02:35,864
and we lived about
ten miles outside of town.
51
00:02:36,364 --> 00:02:38,616
and he would bring my firewood out there
52
00:02:38,616 --> 00:02:41,619
and, and then we were going to move
53
00:02:41,744 --> 00:02:43,913
into town.
54
00:02:43,913 --> 00:02:49,002
And so he came, brought me a load of firewood, and we were talking and he said,
55
00:02:50,044 --> 00:02:52,338
I hear you're moving out of the country.
56
00:02:52,338 --> 00:02:54,966
And I'm thinking,
oh, he knows I'm from the United States.
57
00:02:54,966 --> 00:02:56,843
And he thinks I'm moving
back to the United States.
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00:02:56,843 --> 00:02:59,596
And I was like,
no, I'm not moving out of the country.
59
00:02:59,596 --> 00:03:01,973
And and he was like, well,
that's what I heard.
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00:03:01,973 --> 00:03:05,476
I heard you're moving out of the country
and it's, No, we're just moving into town.
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00:03:05,476 --> 00:03:06,686
And he said, that's what I said.
62
00:03:06,686 --> 00:03:09,022
You're moving out of the country.
And I was like.
63
00:03:09,022 --> 00:03:10,732
Oh, yeah, well, yeah.
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00:03:10,732 --> 00:03:14,694
I am moving out of the country and and,
I realize, you know, I,
65
00:03:15,236 --> 00:03:17,030
I totally misunderstood.
66
00:03:17,030 --> 00:03:19,782
I put my own assumption onto what
67
00:03:19,782 --> 00:03:22,785
he was saying.
68
00:03:23,203 --> 00:03:25,663
because I'm thinking I'm sensitive
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00:03:25,663 --> 00:03:30,126
about being a dual citizen, sensitive
about being an American living in Canada.
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00:03:30,126 --> 00:03:33,880
And and so I my mind immediately went to
he thinks I'm moving back
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00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,757
to the, to the United States.
72
00:03:37,425 --> 00:03:38,218
another time
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00:03:38,218 --> 00:03:41,721
I think about was,
well, we lived in Haiti
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00:03:41,721 --> 00:03:44,724
for a year, and,
75
00:03:45,058 --> 00:03:48,061
we were, we were,
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00:03:48,645 --> 00:03:51,648
building a church building
when we got there,
77
00:03:52,273 --> 00:03:54,776
the people knew that
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00:03:54,776 --> 00:03:57,779
the mission had land to build a church on,
and they had the money
79
00:03:57,779 --> 00:03:58,571
to build the church.
80
00:03:58,571 --> 00:04:03,534
And so they automatically assume
that this American family's coming here.
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00:04:03,534 --> 00:04:05,078
And so they're going to build the church.
82
00:04:05,078 --> 00:04:09,874
And so after I got enough of language
ability, people started asking me,
83
00:04:09,874 --> 00:04:11,251
when are you going to start building
the church?
84
00:04:11,251 --> 00:04:12,877
And I was like,
I don't know anything about a church.
85
00:04:12,877 --> 00:04:15,088
I'm not building a church building.
I'm not a builder.
86
00:04:15,088 --> 00:04:16,673
You don't want me to build a church
building.
87
00:04:16,673 --> 00:04:19,259
It's not going to be good.
88
00:04:19,259 --> 00:04:25,431
And, and,
so they were, they were disappointed.
89
00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,017
And I was disappointed
because they were disappointed.
90
00:04:28,017 --> 00:04:32,105
And so we talked about it
and I said, well, in Canada,
91
00:04:32,105 --> 00:04:35,775
if that was the case, what we would do is
we would hire a contractor
92
00:04:35,775 --> 00:04:39,654
to supervise it, and we would get together
and we'd volunteer,
93
00:04:39,654 --> 00:04:43,992
and we would build the church building
under the supervision of a contractor.
94
00:04:43,992 --> 00:04:46,327
And and there was a man in
the church that was a mason.
95
00:04:47,662 --> 00:04:48,162
Let me talk to
96
00:04:48,162 --> 00:04:51,165
the mission and see if they'll hire him
to supervise it.
97
00:04:51,165 --> 00:04:53,376
And we could have workdays
and we could all work together
98
00:04:53,376 --> 00:04:54,919
and we could build a church building.
99
00:04:54,919 --> 00:04:56,587
So the mission was agreed, and they were.
100
00:04:56,587 --> 00:04:59,132
And so we started
building a church building.
101
00:04:59,132 --> 00:05:01,342
It was 36 by 72.
102
00:05:01,342 --> 00:05:03,970
And we had to dig a foundation.
103
00:05:03,970 --> 00:05:10,101
We had to dig a footer, about 48in deep
and to hit the subsoil.
104
00:05:10,643 --> 00:05:11,936
We didn't have any power equipment.
105
00:05:11,936 --> 00:05:13,855
Everything was done by hand.
106
00:05:13,855 --> 00:05:15,523
And so we worked and worked.
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00:05:15,523 --> 00:05:16,941
after about a month,
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00:05:16,941 --> 00:05:21,154
we were up to ground level
and and then, we went on from there.
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00:05:21,529 --> 00:05:24,699
But every week we would have a workday,
110
00:05:24,699 --> 00:05:27,702
when everybody would come
and and work together on the church.
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00:05:27,744 --> 00:05:30,163
There was one man in the church
that had a job.
112
00:05:30,163 --> 00:05:32,040
He had a formal job,
113
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,334
he was highly respected
because he had a job.
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00:05:34,334 --> 00:05:37,462
Most people well, he was the only one
in the church that had a job.
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00:05:38,004 --> 00:05:40,798
And he worked from Monday to Thursday,
had off Friday,
116
00:05:40,798 --> 00:05:43,760
Saturday, Sunday
and could never get a day off.
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00:05:44,093 --> 00:05:47,138
So at the end of the service
one Sunday, the
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00:05:47,930 --> 00:05:50,475
pastor said, okay, on Tuesday
we're going to have a work day
119
00:05:50,475 --> 00:05:54,604
and who can come raise your hand
if you can come help with the workday.
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00:05:54,604 --> 00:05:57,607
So I noticed that Brother
Jeremy raised his hand.
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00:05:57,732 --> 00:05:59,025
I thought, That's interesting.
122
00:05:59,025 --> 00:06:01,319
I didn't know
he could get a day off of work,
123
00:06:01,319 --> 00:06:04,364
and but apparently
he's he's going to come.
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00:06:05,406 --> 00:06:06,324
So after
125
00:06:06,324 --> 00:06:10,328
church, I met him before he went home
and I said, okay, I'll see you on Tuesday.
126
00:06:10,328 --> 00:06:12,538
And he's like, Tuesday, Tuesday,
what's Tuesday?
127
00:06:12,538 --> 00:06:14,248
And I said, well, the workday.
128
00:06:14,248 --> 00:06:17,210
Oh, he said, I can't come, I'm working.
129
00:06:17,210 --> 00:06:20,546
And I said, well,
I saw that you raised your hand and said
130
00:06:20,546 --> 00:06:21,506
you were going to come. Oh.
131
00:06:21,506 --> 00:06:24,509
He said, well, I raised my hand
because I'm a church member
132
00:06:24,509 --> 00:06:28,971
and I should come and I want to come,
but I can't, and everybody knows I can’t.
133
00:06:29,389 --> 00:06:33,684
but I'm just saying that I would come
if I could and I'm willing to come and.
134
00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:36,229
But everybody knows I can't come.
135
00:06:36,229 --> 00:06:38,189
So that's interesting.
136
00:06:38,189 --> 00:06:40,983
So I asked the pastor,
137
00:06:40,983 --> 00:06:43,653
I saw that Brother
Jeremy raised his hand and said he's,
138
00:06:43,653 --> 00:06:46,948
you know, for the workday and, and,
but do you think he's going to come? No.
139
00:06:46,948 --> 00:06:48,074
He said he's not going to come.
140
00:06:48,074 --> 00:06:50,827
He said he works
and he can't get a day off.
141
00:06:50,827 --> 00:06:52,495
But he said it's really good
he raises his hand
142
00:06:52,495 --> 00:06:56,249
because then everybody knows that he would
come if he could and he wants to come.
143
00:06:56,249 --> 00:06:58,334
And then the people who can come,
144
00:06:58,334 --> 00:07:01,671
They realize, well, yeah,
he would come so I can so I should.
145
00:07:01,671 --> 00:07:04,549
So he said he gets more people's
hands up and it's good he raises his hand.
146
00:07:04,549 --> 00:07:06,175
So I was like, okay.
147
00:07:07,218 --> 00:07:09,053
So then the workday came
148
00:07:09,053 --> 00:07:12,682
and I thought,
I'm going to ask some other people.
149
00:07:12,682 --> 00:07:15,560
So I would get beside some of the men
and there's no trees there.
150
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,395
We're all working in the hot sun and
151
00:07:17,395 --> 00:07:19,021
and you know, it would have been nice
to have a few more people.
152
00:07:19,021 --> 00:07:20,940
And so I'd get beside different men.
153
00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:21,858
And I would say,
154
00:07:21,858 --> 00:07:25,570
you know, this is really hard work
and, it's hot here and we could use
155
00:07:25,570 --> 00:07:28,656
more people and I'd try to get them
in a negative frame of mind.
156
00:07:28,656 --> 00:07:32,702
And then I would say, and you know what
I saw on Sunday that brother Jeremy
157
00:07:32,702 --> 00:07:36,456
raised his hand and said he was going
to come and help with the work project,
158
00:07:36,456 --> 00:07:39,959
but I haven't seen him and you know,
have you seen him?
159
00:07:40,251 --> 00:07:41,294
No, and.
160
00:07:41,294 --> 00:07:44,630
and every one of those men, without fail,
they would say to me,
161
00:07:44,630 --> 00:07:46,174
you shouldn't talk like that.
162
00:07:46,174 --> 00:07:47,842
Like he would come if he could.
163
00:07:47,842 --> 00:07:51,679
And he raises his hand
because he wants to come, but he can't.
164
00:07:52,555 --> 00:07:55,850
And I realized I was the only person
in that church that thought
165
00:07:56,517 --> 00:07:59,395
that because he raised his hand,
he was physically going to come
166
00:08:00,563 --> 00:08:02,106
and help with the work project.
167
00:08:02,106 --> 00:08:05,193
Everybody else knew
it just meant he wants to come,
168
00:08:05,193 --> 00:08:07,695
and he would if he could.
169
00:08:07,695 --> 00:08:09,989
But I didn't understand culturally.
170
00:08:09,989 --> 00:08:15,578
I didn't understand what was what
that what raising his hand really meant.
171
00:08:15,578 --> 00:08:20,374
And, you know, sometimes
we get into other cultural situations
172
00:08:20,374 --> 00:08:24,712
and we see things and we interpret it
in one way, but maybe everybody else
173
00:08:24,712 --> 00:08:29,258
interprets it a different way
and we can start saying, well, people lie.
174
00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:32,303
They say they're going to come
and then they don't come and, and,
175
00:08:32,512 --> 00:08:35,598
but maybe, maybe we didn't understand
what was really being said.
176
00:08:35,598 --> 00:08:38,851
And, and and then we lose trust.
177
00:08:38,851 --> 00:08:41,395
And when trust is lost,
178
00:08:41,395 --> 00:08:45,733
then relationships really nosedive
and things go downhill and
179
00:08:46,192 --> 00:08:49,695
and eventually
it can become almost irreconcilable.
180
00:08:49,695 --> 00:08:50,613
And so,
181
00:08:52,615 --> 00:08:54,283
communicating and finding
182
00:08:54,283 --> 00:08:58,329
out, what didn't I, where there
things here that I didn't understand
183
00:08:58,829 --> 00:09:01,832
and or did
I misunderstand what you were saying?
184
00:09:02,625 --> 00:09:05,378
And that can clear up a lot of,
185
00:09:05,378 --> 00:09:08,965
a lot of mis just misunderstandings and,
186
00:09:09,507 --> 00:09:13,219
and often the things that we think
people mean
187
00:09:14,136 --> 00:09:16,514
when it doesn't seem right
isn't what they meant at all.
188
00:09:16,514 --> 00:09:18,891
And, and communication
is the solution to that.
189
00:09:18,891 --> 00:09:22,228
And just being able to talk and just ask
people, well, what do you mean?
190
00:09:22,228 --> 00:09:24,855
What were you trying to say?
191
00:09:24,855 --> 00:09:27,233
can clear up a lot of those things.
192
00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:30,444
Like not jumping to conclusions right,
or assumptions
193
00:09:30,444 --> 00:09:33,990
or judgment of that person
until you know more, right.
194
00:09:34,323 --> 00:09:38,828
So what other lessons would you
would you have?
195
00:09:39,078 --> 00:09:42,081
Well, another one would be
that I'm not always right.
196
00:09:42,623 --> 00:09:46,419
And, I need
I need guides and I need the Holy Spirit’s
197
00:09:46,961 --> 00:09:49,797
guidance in, in my life.
198
00:09:49,797 --> 00:09:52,800
And there are times when I need people
199
00:09:53,092 --> 00:09:56,596
to tell me
when I've been, when I've been wrong.
200
00:09:57,930 --> 00:10:00,099
I grew up in a bit of a business family.
201
00:10:00,099 --> 00:10:04,061
My dad had was partners in a business,
and it was a concrete
202
00:10:05,229 --> 00:10:05,980
business.
203
00:10:05,980 --> 00:10:09,609
And so I would work in his business,
204
00:10:09,650 --> 00:10:12,653
in the summers when I wasn't in school.
205
00:10:13,946 --> 00:10:14,614
And I was probably
206
00:10:14,614 --> 00:10:17,617
the stereotypical boss's son,
I thought I had a lot more authority
207
00:10:17,617 --> 00:10:21,871
and power than I did, because after all,
I eat dinner with the boss every night.
208
00:10:21,871 --> 00:10:24,582
So maybe you should pay attention to me.
And what I say and what I think.
209
00:10:24,582 --> 00:10:28,711
And so I think I was a little arrogant
and, and,
210
00:10:29,795 --> 00:10:32,340
I had a bit of a overrated opinion
of myself.
211
00:10:32,340 --> 00:10:35,343
And one summer
I was driving front end loader
212
00:10:35,718 --> 00:10:37,762
and there was a cement salesman
that came into that business.
213
00:10:37,762 --> 00:10:41,724
He came every week
and he would sell my dad's cement.
214
00:10:42,391 --> 00:10:45,936
And when he would come in the summertime
when I was there,
215
00:10:45,936 --> 00:10:49,106
he would go in the office
and talk to my dad about buying cement,
216
00:10:49,106 --> 00:10:52,068
and then he'd come out in the plant
and find me and and,
217
00:10:52,443 --> 00:10:54,737
he would take me to the break room
and buy me a mountain dew.
218
00:10:54,737 --> 00:11:00,493
And he talked to me, and and he would
take me to places and do stuff with me.
219
00:11:00,493 --> 00:11:02,620
And I knew he didn't have to do that
to sell cement.
220
00:11:02,620 --> 00:11:04,955
I knew he
I knew he liked me for some reason.
221
00:11:04,955 --> 00:11:07,124
And I was 14 and he was 50.
222
00:11:07,124 --> 00:11:11,504
And it was just
it was a significant relationship for me.
223
00:11:11,504 --> 00:11:15,132
And so I was driving this front end loader
and there was a problem
224
00:11:15,132 --> 00:11:16,342
with the steering.
225
00:11:16,342 --> 00:11:20,513
And I had talked to the shop foreman
about fixing it and nothing was happening.
226
00:11:21,806 --> 00:11:24,016
So I was kind of frustrated about that.
227
00:11:24,016 --> 00:11:27,520
And one day the steering wheel spun around
228
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,063
and there was a knob
on the steering wheel,
229
00:11:29,063 --> 00:11:32,858
and it hit me on my crazy bone
in my elbow, and I was like...
230
00:11:33,442 --> 00:11:36,737
So I jumped off of the front end
loader, went into the shop
231
00:11:36,737 --> 00:11:39,740
and I found the shop foreman and, and,
232
00:11:40,658 --> 00:11:43,577
I told him what I thought of his ability
to schedule things
233
00:11:43,577 --> 00:11:46,580
in the shop and fix things,
and I just told him how it was and
234
00:11:47,206 --> 00:11:49,458
and how or I, how I thought it was.
235
00:11:49,458 --> 00:11:53,295
And then I turned around
to go out of the shop,
236
00:11:53,963 --> 00:11:56,298
and there was Sam, this cement salesman
237
00:11:56,298 --> 00:11:59,427
standing in the doorway,
and he had seen the whole thing.
238
00:12:00,177 --> 00:12:03,597
And when I got to the door,
he took me by the arm, walked me around
239
00:12:03,597 --> 00:12:07,518
the corner, backed me up against the wall,
and then he just kind of leaned over me
240
00:12:07,518 --> 00:12:10,521
and he told me what you did was wrong.
241
00:12:10,813 --> 00:12:12,481
And if you're ever going to be
the kind of person
242
00:12:12,481 --> 00:12:15,401
I thought you were going to be
when you are an adult,
243
00:12:15,401 --> 00:12:19,530
you have a lot to learn about
how to relate to people
244
00:12:19,697 --> 00:12:22,700
and how to deal with problems
and what you're going to do now.
245
00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:25,703
You're going to go back in the shop,
you're going to find that shop foreman,
246
00:12:26,036 --> 00:12:28,330
you're going to apologize to him
for what you just said,
247
00:12:28,330 --> 00:12:30,416
and you're going to tell him
that you are willing to drive
248
00:12:30,416 --> 00:12:33,711
that front end loader
as long as you need to the way it is.
249
00:12:33,711 --> 00:12:36,797
And if he ever gets it into the shop
to fix it, you'll say, thank you.
250
00:12:37,715 --> 00:12:40,301
And he said, I'm going with you. So.
251
00:12:40,301 --> 00:12:43,596
So we went into the shop
and I found the shop foreman.
252
00:12:43,804 --> 00:12:47,099
I apologized, I told him,
I'll drive the front end loader
253
00:12:47,099 --> 00:12:50,686
as long as I need to the way it is, and
if he ever fixes it, I'll say thank you.
254
00:12:50,853 --> 00:12:52,605
And then Sam took me to the break
255
00:12:52,605 --> 00:12:55,316
room, bought me a mountain dew,
and everything was fine.
256
00:12:55,316 --> 00:12:57,193
But that was tremendously valuable.
257
00:12:57,193 --> 00:12:59,153
I hadn't seen him.
258
00:12:59,153 --> 00:13:02,907
He could have walked away and said, well,
I guess Merle's not going to be
259
00:13:02,907 --> 00:13:04,617
the kind of person
I thought he was going to be, and.
260
00:13:04,617 --> 00:13:07,578
But he cared enough about me
to take me around the corner
261
00:13:07,787 --> 00:13:11,123
and tell me what I had done wrong,
how to fix it, and then
262
00:13:11,123 --> 00:13:15,211
go with me to actually actually fix it.
263
00:13:15,377 --> 00:13:17,546
And I need people like that.
264
00:13:17,546 --> 00:13:20,216
in, in my life.
265
00:13:22,134 --> 00:13:23,886
probably another story, probably,
266
00:13:25,012 --> 00:13:28,474
25 years ago, my wife and I were in
267
00:13:29,099 --> 00:13:33,938
we were facing a decision
that she knew in 30s what we should do.
268
00:13:33,938 --> 00:13:36,649
And it took me about three months
to figure it out,
269
00:13:36,649 --> 00:13:40,110
because I felt like I was in a situation
where
270
00:13:40,986 --> 00:13:43,989
no matter what I did,
I was going to violate something
271
00:13:43,989 --> 00:13:47,159
that I really believed in
and that I tried to live by.
272
00:13:47,159 --> 00:13:49,328
And so I just couldn't.
273
00:13:49,328 --> 00:13:51,497
I couldn't make a decision.
274
00:13:51,497 --> 00:13:53,249
And I was stuck.
275
00:13:53,249 --> 00:13:55,459
And it affected our relationship.
276
00:13:55,459 --> 00:13:58,462
It was a difficult time. And,
277
00:13:58,838 --> 00:14:00,548
so during that time
278
00:14:00,548 --> 00:14:05,511
we were going to visit
a, we were came to the States
279
00:14:05,511 --> 00:14:11,308
and we were going to visit a couple that,
is about 20 years older than us. And,
280
00:14:12,393 --> 00:14:13,686
this man's been,
281
00:14:13,686 --> 00:14:17,773
you know, a man who I talked to and, like,
who I knew cared about me.
282
00:14:17,773 --> 00:14:21,443
And and so I thought,
okay, we're going to be at their house.
283
00:14:21,443 --> 00:14:22,611
I'm going to tell him
284
00:14:22,611 --> 00:14:24,822
this whole situation,
and I'm just going to do
285
00:14:24,822 --> 00:14:28,325
whatever he tells me to do,
so that's what I'm going to do.
286
00:14:28,576 --> 00:14:31,537
So we went and,
287
00:14:31,537 --> 00:14:34,123
our wives went shopping
and we're sitting in the living room.
288
00:14:34,123 --> 00:14:39,003
So I told him my whole sad story
and where it was at with this decision,
289
00:14:39,003 --> 00:14:43,674
and he just kind of leaned back in his
chair and said, well, you'll be all right.
290
00:14:44,091 --> 00:14:46,468
Like my wife and I went through
something like that
291
00:14:46,468 --> 00:14:49,847
when we were about your age,
and and, you'll be okay.
292
00:14:50,598 --> 00:14:53,601
And I thought he didn't understand
what I said, like,
293
00:14:53,601 --> 00:14:58,647
no, I'm not going to be okay, like, I need
I just need him to tell me what to do.
294
00:14:58,647 --> 00:15:01,400
And so I told him the whole thing
again. I said, so what shall I do?
295
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,527
And he just kind of said, you'll be okay.
296
00:15:03,527 --> 00:15:08,532
and we went through something like that
to and and you'll be all right.
297
00:15:09,491 --> 00:15:10,326
Well, I went away from that.
298
00:15:10,326 --> 00:15:11,243
I was really frustrated.
299
00:15:11,243 --> 00:15:12,620
I was like, come on.
300
00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:14,788
Like I was going to I was ready
to do whatever he told me to do.
301
00:15:14,788 --> 00:15:16,206
And then he doesn't tell me anything.
302
00:15:16,206 --> 00:15:18,792
And, and, that wasn't helpful at all.
303
00:15:18,792 --> 00:15:20,002
And I was kind of upset about it.
304
00:15:20,002 --> 00:15:23,005
And then about three days later,
I thought, wait a minute.
305
00:15:23,047 --> 00:15:24,381
Like, what did he say?
306
00:15:24,381 --> 00:15:27,134
He said, when I was your age,
307
00:15:27,134 --> 00:15:30,596
we went through something like similar
and you'll be okay.
308
00:15:30,596 --> 00:15:35,517
So he's from his perspective now, 20 years
later, he's not even worried about me.
309
00:15:36,477 --> 00:15:40,189
And so probably 20 years from now, I'll
look back on this decision and say, well,
310
00:15:40,773 --> 00:15:42,066
it turned out all right.
311
00:15:42,066 --> 00:15:44,693
And I just needed,
I just need to make a decision.
312
00:15:44,693 --> 00:15:49,031
And, and that helped me to get off center
and get unstuck
313
00:15:49,698 --> 00:15:52,701
and feel like I can decide something.
314
00:15:52,701 --> 00:15:55,829
But it was that perspective
315
00:15:55,829 --> 00:16:00,084
from a little further down the road
that helped me to.
316
00:16:00,084 --> 00:16:02,252
So I just needed that encouragement
317
00:16:02,252 --> 00:16:05,172
and that confidence
that you're going to be okay.
318
00:16:05,172 --> 00:16:08,592
don't don't worry about it.
319
00:16:08,926 --> 00:16:12,888
and then we, we have those people
320
00:16:12,888 --> 00:16:16,141
who are influential in our lives
and who are directed to us,
321
00:16:16,976 --> 00:16:19,186
and then we also get to do that
for other people.
322
00:16:19,186 --> 00:16:21,021
and we get to,
323
00:16:22,898 --> 00:16:24,984
we get to,
324
00:16:24,984 --> 00:16:28,278
to give guidance and some input
and direction to other people
325
00:16:28,278 --> 00:16:33,534
because the whole principle,
the book of Proverbs, is that wisdom
326
00:16:33,534 --> 00:16:36,620
can be passed on from one generation
to another, and that
327
00:16:37,538 --> 00:16:40,582
but we only do that
if we're willing to invest in the lives
328
00:16:40,582 --> 00:16:45,254
of other people, and we're willing to
some of what we receive, we pass on
329
00:16:46,338 --> 00:16:47,464
to others.
330
00:16:47,464 --> 00:16:51,176
So there was a man
that there is a man that I've known for,
331
00:16:52,261 --> 00:16:53,637
probably 40 years now.
332
00:16:53,637 --> 00:16:57,182
And, when he was nine years old,
333
00:16:58,142 --> 00:17:00,769
his dad was a,
334
00:17:00,769 --> 00:17:02,229
a Mennonite pastor.
335
00:17:02,229 --> 00:17:05,399
But when he when this man was nine years
old, his dad came home,
336
00:17:06,442 --> 00:17:09,194
gave him a bag of candy and said,
I'm leaving.
337
00:17:09,194 --> 00:17:10,195
I'm never coming back.
338
00:17:10,195 --> 00:17:13,615
You're the man of the house
now and left and never came back.
339
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,244
Well, this
man and I have had a lot of conversations
340
00:17:17,244 --> 00:17:21,331
about the impact of that in his life
and just living without a father, and
341
00:17:22,374 --> 00:17:26,462
how that affected, affected his ability
to make decisions and just his own sense
342
00:17:26,462 --> 00:17:32,051
of confidence and direction in life
and and the pain that he experienced as,
343
00:17:32,134 --> 00:17:36,305
a child and as a growing into adulthood
344
00:17:36,305 --> 00:17:39,308
without a father in his home. And,
345
00:17:39,349 --> 00:17:42,853
and it was just devastating for him.
346
00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:47,524
Well, almost unbelievably,
when his he had three boys
347
00:17:47,524 --> 00:17:50,527
and when his sons were about the age
348
00:17:51,195 --> 00:17:55,657
that he had been when his father left,
he left
349
00:17:55,657 --> 00:17:59,119
his wife and moved in with another woman.
350
00:17:59,828 --> 00:18:02,289
And I just couldn't hardly believe it.
351
00:18:02,289 --> 00:18:06,627
I just and his wife came to
our house with her three boys
352
00:18:07,628 --> 00:18:09,463
said she doesn't know what to do
353
00:18:09,463 --> 00:18:12,466
and she knew where he was.
354
00:18:13,258 --> 00:18:14,218
and the town
355
00:18:14,218 --> 00:18:17,638
where he was was about three hours
from where we lived.
356
00:18:17,638 --> 00:18:20,057
And she knew
he worked in the grocery store.
357
00:18:20,057 --> 00:18:23,060
Well, I,
358
00:18:23,393 --> 00:18:25,145
after a couple days,
359
00:18:25,145 --> 00:18:27,856
I decided
I'm not going to let him do that.
360
00:18:27,856 --> 00:18:32,653
Like, he he knows what his dad did.
361
00:18:32,653 --> 00:18:35,030
And I'm, I'm not going to let him
repeat that.
362
00:18:35,030 --> 00:18:38,033
So I went over. Drove over there.
363
00:18:38,534 --> 00:18:41,703
I walked into the grocery store,
and I found him there stocking shelves.
364
00:18:42,287 --> 00:18:45,290
And so I asked him,
what are you doing here?
365
00:18:45,582 --> 00:18:46,667
He said, I'm working here.
366
00:18:46,667 --> 00:18:51,505
I tell him,
well your wife and sons are at my house.
367
00:18:51,672 --> 00:18:56,009
And you know how
you felt when your dad left.
368
00:18:57,010 --> 00:19:00,556
And I don't think you want to do that
to your boys.
369
00:19:01,098 --> 00:19:02,683
it's just wrong.
370
00:19:02,683 --> 00:19:07,938
And so you need to come back with me...
371
00:19:08,522 --> 00:19:12,568
figure out whatever you need to do with
your wife and get things resolved. And
372
00:19:13,735 --> 00:19:15,571
and be with your family.
373
00:19:15,571 --> 00:19:17,865
No, he said, I'm not not going to do that.
374
00:19:17,865 --> 00:19:20,868
And, I said, well,
375
00:19:22,161 --> 00:19:25,622
you know, it's the right thing to do,
and you know, what you're doing is wrong.
376
00:19:26,123 --> 00:19:29,334
And, so why can't you come back?
377
00:19:29,334 --> 00:19:31,044
And he said, well, I'm working here.
378
00:19:31,044 --> 00:19:32,546
I have a job.
379
00:19:32,546 --> 00:19:33,714
I said, yeah.
380
00:19:33,714 --> 00:19:35,757
And up in the corner of the store
is the office.
381
00:19:35,757 --> 00:19:39,094
And two weeks ago you walked in here
and you asked that man for a job,
382
00:19:39,761 --> 00:19:43,015
and he gave you a job,
but what you did was wrong.
383
00:19:43,015 --> 00:19:46,018
And what you're going to do
now is you're going to go up to the office
384
00:19:46,476 --> 00:19:48,645
and you're going to tell that man,
you can't work here anymore
385
00:19:48,645 --> 00:19:51,815
because you're getting back together
with your wife and you're leaving town.
386
00:19:51,815 --> 00:19:55,235
And if he's any kind of a man,
he'll respect you for what you're doing.
387
00:19:56,528 --> 00:19:58,864
So. And I said, I'm going with you.
388
00:19:58,864 --> 00:20:02,367
And, so we went up to the office
and he quit his job.
389
00:20:02,367 --> 00:20:05,662
And then he said, well,
I have to go get my stuff at the house.
390
00:20:05,662 --> 00:20:07,289
And he said,
that woman's going to kill me.
391
00:20:07,289 --> 00:20:07,915
No, she's not.
392
00:20:07,915 --> 00:20:10,792
I'll run interference with her. And,
you get your stuff.
393
00:20:10,792 --> 00:20:14,963
And so we went over to the house,
got his stuff, and went back and, and,
394
00:20:14,963 --> 00:20:18,050
and he and his wife got
395
00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:21,053
together, talked about their issues, and,
396
00:20:21,929 --> 00:20:23,305
you know,
he and his wife are still together today.
397
00:20:23,305 --> 00:20:25,349
It hasn't been a
398
00:20:25,349 --> 00:20:28,310
an easy road, but.
399
00:20:28,435 --> 00:20:31,438
And he and I have talked about it
a number of times how
400
00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:36,193
his children's experience is so different
from what his was.
401
00:20:36,568 --> 00:20:40,072
And he knows his grandchildren
and he's there with his family.
402
00:20:41,281 --> 00:20:43,909
But we when people
403
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:46,912
do things, when we experience things
and we can
404
00:20:47,663 --> 00:20:51,792
we can do those things for other people
as well, and it just becomes part of
405
00:20:52,793 --> 00:20:56,046
generationally helping each other
to to walk on
406
00:20:56,546 --> 00:20:59,341
a good path.
407
00:20:59,341 --> 00:21:01,927
But I need guides and so do others.
408
00:21:01,927 --> 00:21:05,722
And I can be part of, of,
receiving guidance
409
00:21:05,722 --> 00:21:07,724
and input and correction
and also giving it.
410
00:21:07,724 --> 00:21:08,976
Yeah.
411
00:21:08,976 --> 00:21:11,979
It's, it sounds like you were given a gift
412
00:21:12,187 --> 00:21:15,774
at one point in your life
of some correction
413
00:21:15,774 --> 00:21:18,777
when you needed it,
and then you're taking that
414
00:21:18,777 --> 00:21:22,447
on to the next in your own life
and doing that for others.
415
00:21:22,739 --> 00:21:23,949
Yeah.
416
00:21:23,949 --> 00:21:28,328
It's not easy to do to do what you did,
but it was it just
417
00:21:28,453 --> 00:21:31,456
this is the right thing to do,
and I need to stand for what's right.
418
00:21:31,623 --> 00:21:34,626
And it was also somebody that I knew
really, really well.
419
00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:37,713
so I wouldn't have done that
for just anybody.
420
00:21:37,713 --> 00:21:40,507
But yeah, I did know this man really well.
421
00:21:41,842 --> 00:21:43,635
That's powerful though.
422
00:21:43,635 --> 00:21:44,261
That's powerful though.
423
00:21:44,261 --> 00:21:46,555
yeah. What other what other lessons?
424
00:21:46,555 --> 00:21:50,017
Well, a wise man told me one time,
you'll never make yourself
425
00:21:50,017 --> 00:21:51,393
happy with your own money.
426
00:21:51,393 --> 00:21:53,979
You can make other people
happy with your money,
427
00:21:53,979 --> 00:21:56,940
but you'll never make yourself happy
with your own money.
428
00:21:56,940 --> 00:21:58,108
That's.
429
00:21:58,108 --> 00:21:59,026
Ooh, I like that.
430
00:21:59,026 --> 00:22:01,361
That's pretty profound, actually.
431
00:22:01,361 --> 00:22:01,903
And I.
432
00:22:01,903 --> 00:22:03,363
And I think that's true.
433
00:22:03,363 --> 00:22:05,282
And there are people that chase wealth
434
00:22:05,282 --> 00:22:07,743
and think that, well,
if I just have a little more.
435
00:22:07,743 --> 00:22:09,578
I have this or that than I'd be.
436
00:22:09,578 --> 00:22:11,371
Then I'd be happy.
437
00:22:11,371 --> 00:22:13,874
And, it's a false narrative.
438
00:22:13,874 --> 00:22:15,042
It's not really true.
439
00:22:15,042 --> 00:22:19,671
It's,
it's it's, it's a false dream to chase,
440
00:22:19,671 --> 00:22:22,924
to think that wealth
is going to bring bring happiness.
441
00:22:25,594 --> 00:22:26,762
of course, we spent most of
442
00:22:26,762 --> 00:22:29,806
our lives in, in ministry,
443
00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:34,936
I have never, I haven't done things
in life because of how much it pays.
444
00:22:34,936 --> 00:22:38,690
And, so, Yeah.
445
00:22:39,149 --> 00:22:41,443
Never have been,
never will be a wealthy person.
446
00:22:41,443 --> 00:22:44,863
But, when we lived in Dryden,
447
00:22:44,863 --> 00:22:48,533
there was a, a couple there
business couple that we related to,
448
00:22:49,576 --> 00:22:52,496
and it was a wealthy business couple
449
00:22:52,496 --> 00:22:55,707
and, and, he was an agnostic.
450
00:22:56,625 --> 00:22:59,920
he felt like, well, he believed that
you can't know if God exists.
451
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:01,755
Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't.
452
00:23:01,755 --> 00:23:04,758
And you don't find out until you die,
and then it's too late.
453
00:23:05,133 --> 00:23:10,430
So. And he and I had a lot
of conversations about it, but, anyway,
454
00:23:10,430 --> 00:23:13,767
that was he maintained that that position
455
00:23:14,726 --> 00:23:17,437
he got in his strategy was that
he would get involved in the church
456
00:23:17,437 --> 00:23:21,525
just enough that if he died and God
did exist, he thought he'd be okay,
457
00:23:21,983 --> 00:23:25,237
but not too much
so that if he died and God didn't exist,
458
00:23:25,237 --> 00:23:27,406
he hadn't wasted
a lot of time and money in the church.
459
00:23:27,406 --> 00:23:31,076
So that was sort of his his strategy and.
460
00:23:31,660 --> 00:23:35,914
Odd philosophy Yeah,
but it was kind of how he, he lived life.
461
00:23:36,164 --> 00:23:39,543
And then and we had been to
their we'd go to their house for dinner,
462
00:23:39,543 --> 00:23:42,546
they'd come to our house for dinner
some times and, and,
463
00:23:42,879 --> 00:23:47,217
and we enjoyed talking to each other and,
and then we went to Haiti.
464
00:23:47,217 --> 00:23:48,718
We lived in Haiti for a year.
465
00:23:48,718 --> 00:23:50,762
And when we came back from Haiti,
466
00:23:52,180 --> 00:23:53,473
he said, Merle, I want to
467
00:23:53,473 --> 00:23:57,394
have you come over to my cottage
and, and, talk about Haiti.
468
00:23:57,686 --> 00:24:01,189
So he said, I'll meet you up
by the Trans-Canada highway because it's
469
00:24:01,189 --> 00:24:02,816
a little challenging to find my cottage.
470
00:24:02,816 --> 00:24:04,943
And so he did,
471
00:24:04,943 --> 00:24:05,861
and it was good.
472
00:24:05,861 --> 00:24:07,571
He did, because there were a lot of turns
back,
473
00:24:07,571 --> 00:24:09,990
these little gravel roads
back to his cottage on the lake.
474
00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:13,869
And, and my problem started
when he met me by the Trans-Canada highway
475
00:24:13,869 --> 00:24:17,205
because he was driving a Jaguar,
and I was driving
476
00:24:17,205 --> 00:24:20,459
a Ford Escort station wagon
that wasn't too new. And,
477
00:24:21,668 --> 00:24:24,880
looking at his car and thinking,
you know, we parked beside him
478
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,340
when we got to his cottage
and I'm looking in his car
479
00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:28,967
and thinking, that's a real car.
480
00:24:28,967 --> 00:24:31,094
And like, I wonder what wonder
what he thinks of my car.
481
00:24:31,094 --> 00:24:34,181
And I wonder what it feels like to drive
a Jaguar like that.
482
00:24:34,431 --> 00:24:35,640
That would be.
483
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:36,850
That would really be something.
484
00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:39,311
And, then went to their cottage.
485
00:24:39,311 --> 00:24:40,812
Well,
their cottage, we'd been to their house,
486
00:24:40,812 --> 00:24:41,980
but this was their cottage,
487
00:24:41,980 --> 00:24:44,983
and their cottage was bigger
and nicer than my house and that.
488
00:24:44,983 --> 00:24:47,110
Oh, this is yeah, this is really nice.
489
00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:49,029
And then he said, well, dinner's
490
00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:52,073
not quite ready yet,
so, I'll take your family sailing.
491
00:24:52,073 --> 00:24:54,576
while we wait for dinner to be ready.
492
00:24:54,576 --> 00:24:58,371
So he had a 40ft sailboat,
and we went out on the lake sailing, and
493
00:24:59,164 --> 00:25:01,374
and I'm out on the lake with him
sailing and I’m thinking, you know,
494
00:25:01,374 --> 00:25:04,377
this is how a person ought to live.
This is.
495
00:25:04,419 --> 00:25:06,338
This is the way life should be done.
496
00:25:06,338 --> 00:25:10,300
You have the jaguar,
the cottage, the sailboat.
497
00:25:10,300 --> 00:25:13,428
And this is this is living.
498
00:25:13,428 --> 00:25:16,431
This is this is how life should be done.
499
00:25:16,932 --> 00:25:19,684
And then we go back into the dock and
500
00:25:19,684 --> 00:25:23,063
and we were going to have dinner
down on the dock and, and he said, now
501
00:25:23,063 --> 00:25:24,481
we're going to have dinner down here
on the dock.
502
00:25:24,481 --> 00:25:27,609
And, but after dinner we're going to go up
to the cottage and talk about Haiti and,
503
00:25:28,318 --> 00:25:30,237
but we have a Jacuzzi on the dock.
504
00:25:30,237 --> 00:25:32,113
And so if your children
want to go in the Jacuzzi
505
00:25:32,113 --> 00:25:33,823
while we go talk about Haiti,
they could do that.
506
00:25:33,823 --> 00:25:36,243
And I'm thinking, now,
he has a Jacuzzi, too.
507
00:25:36,243 --> 00:25:41,289
And and, so we're there, and
we had steak and baked potatoes,
508
00:25:41,289 --> 00:25:42,541
and my steak and baked
509
00:25:42,541 --> 00:25:45,585
potato didn't taste very good
because I was feeling sorry for myself.
510
00:25:45,585 --> 00:25:50,590
And I'm thinking, you know, like,
I don't have anything like he has it all.
511
00:25:50,590 --> 00:25:54,553
He has the Jaguar, the sailboat,
the cottage, the jacuzzi, and
512
00:25:55,178 --> 00:25:56,763
and I had nothing.
513
00:25:56,763 --> 00:26:00,016
And the problem is, the way
I'm living my life, I never will,
514
00:26:00,016 --> 00:26:02,394
and I even have to go to somebody else's
house to eat steak.
515
00:26:02,394 --> 00:26:05,397
And it's just like
my life is so miserable.
516
00:26:05,438 --> 00:26:07,566
And, then we get up to the cottage
517
00:26:08,733 --> 00:26:09,734
and we're talking about Haiti.
518
00:26:09,734 --> 00:26:11,987
And partway through the conversation,
519
00:26:11,987 --> 00:26:14,573
he turned to his wife and said,
you know what, Pat?
520
00:26:14,573 --> 00:26:17,576
We should have got more involved
in the church.
521
00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:20,328
because he said,
we never have done anything for anybody.
522
00:26:20,328 --> 00:26:23,290
We travel, but we just go
look at stuff and come home.
523
00:26:23,290 --> 00:26:26,167
And he said, look at the things
that Marle and his family did.
524
00:26:26,167 --> 00:26:27,627
Like, we don't know anything about that.
525
00:26:27,627 --> 00:26:29,462
Like we've never done anything like that.
526
00:26:29,462 --> 00:26:34,134
And you know, I just kind of find it
kind of felt God talking to me and saying,
527
00:26:34,134 --> 00:26:34,509
you know what?
528
00:26:34,509 --> 00:26:35,218
Like you were down there
529
00:26:35,218 --> 00:26:38,430
crying into your steak and baked potato
and feeling sorry for yourself,
530
00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:41,433
but actually, if anybody should feel
sorry for themself, it's him.
531
00:26:41,558 --> 00:26:44,978
Because, yeah, he has all the stuff.
532
00:26:45,186 --> 00:26:51,276
but he's never really done
anything of significance, for people.
533
00:26:52,694 --> 00:26:55,488
And, you know, if I get
to the end of my life and I had lived 70
534
00:26:55,488 --> 00:27:00,493
or 80 years, and all I had was a sailboat
and a Jaguar and a Jacuzzi, it's not.
535
00:27:00,910 --> 00:27:03,913
It's not enough. Like it's not worth it.
536
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,708
and the world's filled with people
that are 45,
537
00:27:06,708 --> 00:27:10,420
50 years old that met
all their financial goals and are bored
538
00:27:10,754 --> 00:27:13,757
and don't know what to do
with the rest of their life. And
539
00:27:14,466 --> 00:27:18,428
so chasing wealth is just kind of a it's
a phantom
540
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,932
and we'll never make ourselves happy
with with the pursuit of wealth
541
00:27:23,141 --> 00:27:28,396
and the things that make a difference for
eternity are the things that are really
542
00:27:29,105 --> 00:27:32,108
fulfilling and.
543
00:27:32,609 --> 00:27:33,652
You know, the
544
00:27:33,652 --> 00:27:38,114
the path that God takes us on is it's a,
it's a it's a life of adventure,
545
00:27:38,448 --> 00:27:41,534
because you don't know
what he has coming next.
546
00:27:41,534 --> 00:27:45,163
And we'd like to have the 20 year plan,
but he doesn't do that.
547
00:27:45,372 --> 00:27:50,085
And, and so it's it's exciting
because you never know
548
00:27:50,085 --> 00:27:54,756
what God has around next year
or that round the next bend.
549
00:27:54,756 --> 00:27:57,384
And it's also fulfilling
because you realize
550
00:27:58,343 --> 00:28:01,346
it's making a difference for for eternity.
551
00:28:01,888 --> 00:28:05,308
So, I think you had something,
552
00:28:06,309 --> 00:28:08,478
something powerful there
where you said money,
553
00:28:08,478 --> 00:28:11,981
our own money won't, won't make us happy,
but it can make other people
554
00:28:11,981 --> 00:28:17,195
happy in this sense of
you can use it in service to others.
555
00:28:17,529 --> 00:28:20,323
Do you want to elaborate on that statement
at all?
556
00:28:20,323 --> 00:28:23,618
Well, I think of, like
557
00:28:23,618 --> 00:28:27,789
when people have have needs
and we are generous and give,
558
00:28:28,415 --> 00:28:31,418
we can bless people
in their moment of need
559
00:28:32,001 --> 00:28:36,548
and what they experience is
560
00:28:36,548 --> 00:28:39,759
way beyond the joy of what
we'll experience by keeping it.
561
00:28:40,301 --> 00:28:44,055
And so it's true what Jesus said, that
562
00:28:44,055 --> 00:28:47,809
it's more blessed
to give than than to receive.
563
00:28:48,309 --> 00:28:52,814
And in the church community, that giving
and that caring for one another is
564
00:28:52,814 --> 00:28:58,236
just there's a blessing there
that that is really, really powerful.
565
00:28:59,529 --> 00:29:00,655
When we lived in Haiti.
566
00:29:00,655 --> 00:29:04,033
one Sunday morning in Sunday
567
00:29:04,033 --> 00:29:08,997
school, the lesson in Sunday school was,
I've been young and I've been old,
568
00:29:08,997 --> 00:29:12,000
but I've never seen the righteous forsaken
or his seed begging bread.
569
00:29:12,917 --> 00:29:16,337
And the people were like,
yeah, that's right, that's that's true.
570
00:29:16,546 --> 00:29:21,342
And so that afternoon
I was talking to the, the Haitian pastor,
571
00:29:21,718 --> 00:29:24,637
and I said to him
now we had that verse in Sunday School,
572
00:29:24,637 --> 00:29:25,764
I've been young and I've been old
573
00:29:25,764 --> 00:29:28,767
and I've never seen the righteous forsaken
or his seed begging bread.
574
00:29:29,225 --> 00:29:33,229
But you and I both have people coming
to our house every day asking for food.
575
00:29:33,730 --> 00:29:37,066
So? So how can you say, yeah, that's true.
576
00:29:37,734 --> 00:29:40,820
When we have people.
577
00:29:41,821 --> 00:29:44,824
coming every day asking for food.
578
00:29:44,908 --> 00:29:47,202
So they are begging bread, right?
579
00:29:47,202 --> 00:29:51,039
And he's like, no,
what you're what you're thinking is wrong.
580
00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:54,834
He was saying,
you will never see a person in our church
581
00:29:55,335 --> 00:29:58,296
at the market begging from the public.
582
00:29:58,338 --> 00:30:01,716
But we do tell each other what we need
and we give to each other
583
00:30:02,133 --> 00:30:03,343
and we help each other.
584
00:30:03,343 --> 00:30:05,470
And so you will never see
585
00:30:05,470 --> 00:30:08,765
one of our church members
begging bread from the general public.
586
00:30:08,973 --> 00:30:12,560
and there's that dignity in being able
to give to someone else
587
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:13,645
in their time of need
588
00:30:14,854 --> 00:30:18,316
that brings joy and and, yeah.
589
00:30:19,984 --> 00:30:23,363
To both, to both us as a giver
and to the person who receives it.
590
00:30:24,239 --> 00:30:27,116
That's so powerful
because of the deception
591
00:30:27,116 --> 00:30:30,745
that comes with wealth
is, is really hard to untangle.
592
00:30:30,954 --> 00:30:31,246
Yeah.
593
00:30:31,246 --> 00:30:34,999
Because it can feel like such a solution
to life's problems.
594
00:30:34,999 --> 00:30:37,252
And maybe it's a, it's,
595
00:30:37,252 --> 00:30:39,629
I heard someone say money
doesn't solve all your problems.
596
00:30:39,629 --> 00:30:43,800
It does solve money problems, but
it doesn't solve the really deep things
597
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:44,217
in life.
598
00:30:44,217 --> 00:30:47,762
You know, the search for joy
and meaning and fulfillment and purpose.
599
00:30:48,805 --> 00:30:49,764
wow. That's that's.
600
00:30:49,764 --> 00:30:51,391
There's a lot to unpack there.
601
00:30:51,391 --> 00:30:51,891
Yeah.
602
00:30:51,891 --> 00:30:55,687
I will say I'm glad you didn't,
go for the sailboat and the Jacuzzi
603
00:30:55,687 --> 00:30:58,147
and the cabin because I feel like. Wow.
604
00:30:58,147 --> 00:31:01,234
You know how many of these stories
that you have wouldn't even exist
605
00:31:01,359 --> 00:31:02,443
if you'd went that route?
606
00:31:02,443 --> 00:31:02,610
What other lessons do you have?
607
00:31:02,610 --> 00:31:04,279
What other lessons do you have?
608
00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:09,492
Well, I think, another one is,
there is a god, and it's not me.
609
00:31:09,826 --> 00:31:12,912
And, God is sovereign.
610
00:31:13,288 --> 00:31:15,039
He knows what he's doing.
611
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:18,376
And the reassurance is
612
00:31:18,376 --> 00:31:22,046
not only is he sovereign,
but he's good and he loves me.
613
00:31:23,006 --> 00:31:23,798
And so
614
00:31:23,798 --> 00:31:27,427
there are things that have not gone
the way I thought they should go.
615
00:31:27,677 --> 00:31:31,306
And in Romans chapter 11
it talks about, you know, who is God's
616
00:31:31,306 --> 00:31:34,267
counselor, who's been his counselor,
or who understands the mind of God.
617
00:31:35,143 --> 00:31:38,563
Well,
I've had times when I was God's counselor.
618
00:31:38,563 --> 00:31:40,690
I told him what I thought he should do.
619
00:31:40,690 --> 00:31:42,650
And, and he doesn't...
620
00:31:42,650 --> 00:31:44,485
He doesn't always do it.
621
00:31:44,485 --> 00:31:47,322
And he doesn't do things the way
I think it should be done.
622
00:31:47,322 --> 00:31:51,284
but I rest in that
he knows what he's doing.
623
00:31:51,284 --> 00:31:52,911
I don't know what he knows.
624
00:31:52,911 --> 00:31:58,958
And,
And he he's good, and he loves me, but,
625
00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:02,629
there are things that just, didn't go
626
00:32:03,963 --> 00:32:05,632
the way I thought they.
627
00:32:05,632 --> 00:32:07,717
They should go.
And sometimes we misunderstand
628
00:32:08,676 --> 00:32:09,677
who God is.
629
00:32:09,677 --> 00:32:14,349
Back when we lived in Dryden,
630
00:32:15,183 --> 00:32:19,312
I was on the board of the food bank,
and it was just, a little.
631
00:32:19,312 --> 00:32:23,691
We rented a room
that was just a small, small room.
632
00:32:23,733 --> 00:32:26,194
And the grocery stores
donated all the food.
633
00:32:26,194 --> 00:32:29,948
And so our budget
was basically the rental of, of the room,
634
00:32:30,490 --> 00:32:34,744
but we were giving food
to between 90 and 100 families a week.
635
00:32:34,744 --> 00:32:37,789
Out of that,
out of that space that we had.
636
00:32:38,414 --> 00:32:39,290
But we had plans.
637
00:32:39,290 --> 00:32:42,669
We wanted to do Bible studies
and financial literacy classes
638
00:32:42,669 --> 00:32:45,672
and cooking classes,
but we had no room to do it.
639
00:32:46,005 --> 00:32:50,593
So we thought, well, rather than rent
a bigger space, we should buy a building,
640
00:32:51,177 --> 00:32:54,639
and then we'd be able to do all those
all those things.
641
00:32:54,639 --> 00:32:58,059
So we looked around at buildings
and, buildings the size
642
00:32:58,059 --> 00:33:01,396
we needed at
that time would have been maybe $150,000.
643
00:33:01,396 --> 00:33:04,399
So we started a building fund
and and we started talking
644
00:33:04,399 --> 00:33:07,402
to people about money
for the building fund.
645
00:33:07,568 --> 00:33:10,780
And we weren't getting very much
because people didn't
646
00:33:10,780 --> 00:33:13,866
think we were going to be able
to raise $150,000.
647
00:33:13,866 --> 00:33:18,788
So we wound up after a number of months
with maybe around $3,000.
648
00:33:18,788 --> 00:33:19,664
And,
649
00:33:20,707 --> 00:33:22,542
so we're thinking, oh, you know, the thing
650
00:33:22,542 --> 00:33:25,545
is, and there were people who would say,
well, when you get close, let me know.
651
00:33:25,545 --> 00:33:27,213
Yeah, I want to help you.
652
00:33:27,213 --> 00:33:31,759
when you get close, let me know
and I'll give you something and so.
653
00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:33,845
But they didn't want to give us
$5,000 or $10,000.
654
00:33:33,845 --> 00:33:35,471
Just have it
sit in a bank account forever.
655
00:33:35,471 --> 00:33:39,809
So, at the point where they realized
we were going to make it,
656
00:33:39,809 --> 00:33:41,644
then they were going to help us.
657
00:33:41,644 --> 00:33:42,311
So we thought, you know what?
658
00:33:42,311 --> 00:33:46,399
We need somebody
who will give us a donation of $25,000
659
00:33:46,816 --> 00:33:48,609
that will kickstart our building fund.
660
00:33:48,609 --> 00:33:50,987
And if we would have $25,000
in our building fund,
661
00:33:50,987 --> 00:33:53,740
then we could go back to all those people
and say, okay, we're
662
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:54,532
we're going to make it.
663
00:33:54,532 --> 00:33:57,035
so this is the time to help.
664
00:33:57,035 --> 00:34:01,664
So we were praying for somebody
to give us, $25,000.
665
00:34:01,664 --> 00:34:03,833
And during that time we had a,
666
00:34:04,751 --> 00:34:04,876
there
667
00:34:04,876 --> 00:34:08,171
was a trade show in Dryden, and the food
bank had a booth at the trade show.
668
00:34:08,171 --> 00:34:12,675
And as board members, we were taking turns
manning the booth at the trade show.
669
00:34:13,426 --> 00:34:16,888
So, I was taking my turn,
670
00:34:17,263 --> 00:34:21,142
and this man came by and he looks
at the booth and goes, oh, the food bank.
671
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:23,144
Tell me about the food bank.
672
00:34:23,144 --> 00:34:26,856
So I told him about the food bank,
and he said, what do you need?
673
00:34:27,523 --> 00:34:30,526
And I said, well, we need spaghetti.
674
00:34:30,943 --> 00:34:33,529
and he said,
how much spaghetti do you need?
675
00:34:33,529 --> 00:34:35,323
I said, I don't know,
but I'll give me your phone number
676
00:34:35,323 --> 00:34:39,410
and I'll call you and I'll find out and
I'll tell you how much spaghetti we need.
677
00:34:39,410 --> 00:34:42,163
So, okay, I'll see that
you have all the spaghetti you need.
678
00:34:42,163 --> 00:34:44,373
So he said, what else do you need?
679
00:34:44,373 --> 00:34:47,376
Well, we could use macaroni and cheese.
680
00:34:47,418 --> 00:34:49,837
And he's like, well,
how much of that do you need?
681
00:34:49,837 --> 00:34:50,129
I don't know.
682
00:34:50,129 --> 00:34:51,339
When I call you about the spaghetti,
683
00:34:51,339 --> 00:34:53,966
I'll tell you
about the macaroni and Cheese too.
684
00:34:53,966 --> 00:34:55,301
So he was like Okay.
685
00:34:55,301 --> 00:34:58,846
And, then he started walking away,
and he got maybe 20ft away.
686
00:34:58,846 --> 00:35:01,808
And then he came back and he said,
do you know who I am?
687
00:35:01,808 --> 00:35:03,643
And I was like, no, not really.
688
00:35:03,643 --> 00:35:06,437
I've seen you around town,
but I don't really know who you are.
689
00:35:06,437 --> 00:35:10,316
And he said, well,
I own a restaurant here in town,
690
00:35:10,316 --> 00:35:13,611
and my wife is a doctor,
and we've been in town about five years.
691
00:35:13,611 --> 00:35:16,656
And he said,
I'd like to give back to the community.
692
00:35:16,656 --> 00:35:20,576
And, and, I always thought the food bank
would be a great way to do it
693
00:35:20,576 --> 00:35:23,538
because I'm in the food business
and you're in the food business
694
00:35:23,538 --> 00:35:26,749
and we're Christians
and you're a Christian organization.
695
00:35:26,749 --> 00:35:28,209
And so I just thought
it was a perfect fit.
696
00:35:28,209 --> 00:35:30,378
But I never met anybody from the food bank
before.
697
00:35:30,378 --> 00:35:34,590
And and so he said,
this is the first time I've ever met
698
00:35:34,590 --> 00:35:37,051
anybody from the food bank.
And so I was interested.
699
00:35:37,051 --> 00:35:38,386
And in what do you need?
700
00:35:38,386 --> 00:35:40,805
I said, well,
do you want to know what we really need?
701
00:35:40,805 --> 00:35:42,849
And he said, yeah,
I've been trying to find out
702
00:35:42,849 --> 00:35:44,725
for the last 20 minutes
and you won't tell me.
703
00:35:44,725 --> 00:35:47,895
And so I explained
the whole building thing to him and,
704
00:35:48,437 --> 00:35:49,814
and he's like, well, what's the problem?
705
00:35:49,814 --> 00:35:52,358
And I said, well,
people don't think we're going to make it.
706
00:35:52,358 --> 00:35:54,235
And he said, well, how much do you need?
707
00:35:54,235 --> 00:35:57,155
So we need $150,000
and we have a building fund.
708
00:35:57,155 --> 00:36:00,032
But he said,
how much is in it? So we have 3000.
709
00:36:00,032 --> 00:36:02,285
And he just laughed at me and he said, so
710
00:36:02,285 --> 00:36:05,746
you're looking at $150,000 buildings
and you only have 3000.
711
00:36:05,872 --> 00:36:06,330
Yeah.
712
00:36:06,330 --> 00:36:07,999
Because we know God's
going to give us some money.
713
00:36:07,999 --> 00:36:09,041
We just don't know when.
714
00:36:09,041 --> 00:36:12,670
And we want to be ready so that when he
does, we're ready to buy a building.
715
00:36:13,838 --> 00:36:16,424
So he said, well, what's the problem?
716
00:36:16,424 --> 00:36:19,093
So I told him that people don't have
the confidence we're going to raise it.
717
00:36:19,093 --> 00:36:20,386
And we've been praying for somebody
718
00:36:20,386 --> 00:36:23,472
to give us $25,000
to kickstart our building fund.
719
00:36:24,432 --> 00:36:27,226
And he said, my wife and I will do that.
720
00:36:27,226 --> 00:36:29,103
And I said, I'm not joking.
721
00:36:29,103 --> 00:36:31,189
And he said, I'm not either.
You have my phone number, right?
722
00:36:31,189 --> 00:36:33,274
I said, yeah, he said,
call me when you're ready for the money.
723
00:36:33,274 --> 00:36:35,443
And so I did, and he gave the money.
724
00:36:35,443 --> 00:36:37,945
And today the food bank has a building.
725
00:36:37,945 --> 00:36:40,948
But, you know,
sometimes I think when we're done
726
00:36:41,032 --> 00:36:45,119
praying, God would like to turn around
and say, like, do you know who I am?
727
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,873
I think we're asking for the spaghetti
728
00:36:48,873 --> 00:36:52,835
and macaroni and cheese of life,
and and God's interested in those things.
729
00:36:52,835 --> 00:36:56,923
But but we're talking to the person
who is the sovereign of the universe.
730
00:36:57,965 --> 00:36:58,925
And and
731
00:36:58,925 --> 00:37:02,553
there's things that
no human being can do for us that he can,
732
00:37:03,429 --> 00:37:05,556
and just bring those things to him
733
00:37:05,556 --> 00:37:08,184
as as the King of kings
734
00:37:08,184 --> 00:37:11,187
and Lord of lords,
the person he really is.
735
00:37:12,063 --> 00:37:14,148
but then he doesn't always do
things the way we think.
736
00:37:14,148 --> 00:37:17,902
We had, my wife and I had a,
737
00:37:18,903 --> 00:37:21,322
well, we helped with a Sunday school
on the reserve,
738
00:37:21,322 --> 00:37:24,325
and, on the reservation,
739
00:37:24,367 --> 00:37:27,828
and we tried to have, an adult Sunday
school class,
740
00:37:27,828 --> 00:37:28,829
but the only adults
741
00:37:28,829 --> 00:37:32,375
that would come were people
that would come and a few couple of ladies
742
00:37:32,375 --> 00:37:33,834
that would come
when they were intoxicated.
743
00:37:33,834 --> 00:37:39,548
So, then we went to home Bible studies,
and we started doing home Bible studies.
744
00:37:39,548 --> 00:37:41,842
And my wife had a ladies Bible study.
745
00:37:41,842 --> 00:37:46,055
There were a couple of ladies that came
to the Lord and became Christians.
746
00:37:46,055 --> 00:37:51,018
And, one of those ladies
was the daughter of one of the ladies
747
00:37:51,018 --> 00:37:53,354
who would come to Sunday school,
when she was intoxicated.
748
00:37:54,605 --> 00:37:57,400
So she
was quite concerned about her mother.
749
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,361
And and we were praying
for her mother and,
750
00:38:00,903 --> 00:38:03,030
and then one day her mother was found
751
00:38:03,030 --> 00:38:07,326
passed out in a house and unresponsive,
went to the hospital
752
00:38:07,326 --> 00:38:11,706
and things just started
going downhill for her.
753
00:38:11,706 --> 00:38:13,291
And she got worse and worse.
754
00:38:13,291 --> 00:38:15,918
And, and,
755
00:38:15,918 --> 00:38:18,921
her daughter, who had become
a Christian, was quite concerned about
756
00:38:19,964 --> 00:38:21,424
her mother's eternal destiny.
757
00:38:21,424 --> 00:38:26,095
And, and her mother had gone to,
Catholic school as a child.
758
00:38:26,095 --> 00:38:29,307
She and, of course,
we had had interaction with her.
759
00:38:29,307 --> 00:38:30,599
She knew the gospel.
760
00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:35,646
And, we were, praying for her salvation.
761
00:38:35,938 --> 00:38:40,109
And I told her daughter, you know,
they say that
762
00:38:40,109 --> 00:38:43,946
when a person dies, one of the last senses
they lose is their hearing.
763
00:38:44,071 --> 00:38:46,157
And so your mother can probably hear us.
764
00:38:46,157 --> 00:38:49,160
And so we went to the hospital room
765
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,330
and we talked to her, and I told her,
766
00:38:53,122 --> 00:38:56,625
you know,
you know, the way of salvation, like,
767
00:38:56,625 --> 00:39:01,964
you know about the Lord Jesus Christ,
and you can receive Christ in your mind.
768
00:39:01,964 --> 00:39:04,592
You can you can give your life to Christ.
769
00:39:04,592 --> 00:39:07,803
And you know you're not well. And
770
00:39:09,388 --> 00:39:10,431
before you die, you
771
00:39:10,431 --> 00:39:14,435
can you can be sure of where you're going
when you die.
772
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,480
And,
so I said, I'm going to pray a prayer
773
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,566
and you can pray the prayer with me
in your mind
774
00:39:20,775 --> 00:39:23,778
and, and receive Christ.
775
00:39:24,236 --> 00:39:27,990
So I did, and
and because there was no response.
776
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:30,868
And then her daughter wanted to know,
777
00:39:30,868 --> 00:39:32,661
so did she do that?
778
00:39:32,661 --> 00:39:36,290
Like I,
I don't want her to die without me knowing
779
00:39:37,208 --> 00:39:41,045
where she's going and what,
where she's going to spend eternity.
780
00:39:41,045 --> 00:39:45,424
And so we were praying and I was asking
God, like, just have her become conscious
781
00:39:45,424 --> 00:39:49,887
for 30s or something
just so she can let her daughter know
782
00:39:51,514 --> 00:39:53,432
whether she
783
00:39:53,432 --> 00:39:54,767
accepted Christ or not.
784
00:39:54,767 --> 00:39:59,647
And one day we were in her room
and just telling her, like we,
785
00:39:59,939 --> 00:40:04,360
your daughter really wants to know
if you become a Christian and
786
00:40:05,361 --> 00:40:05,694
if you
787
00:40:05,694 --> 00:40:08,697
have, if you could just squeeze my hand.
788
00:40:08,906 --> 00:40:11,033
but there was nothing.
789
00:40:11,033 --> 00:40:13,911
Well, she died, and I was really mad.
790
00:40:13,911 --> 00:40:14,995
I was really angry.
791
00:40:14,995 --> 00:40:17,415
I was like, God, that was really bad.
792
00:40:17,415 --> 00:40:19,583
Here's this lady
793
00:40:19,583 --> 00:40:20,459
who is a new believer.
794
00:40:20,459 --> 00:40:24,213
All she wants to know
is where her mother is for eternity.
795
00:40:24,213 --> 00:40:26,882
You could have had her become
conscious for 30s.
796
00:40:26,882 --> 00:40:30,886
You could have had her squeeze my hand
and you didn't like that...
797
00:40:32,179 --> 00:40:33,514
That wasn't good.
798
00:40:33,514 --> 00:40:35,516
And,
799
00:40:35,516 --> 00:40:40,104
well, in their community,
after a person died
800
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,483
within a week or so,
somebody would have a dream about them
801
00:40:44,525 --> 00:40:48,237
and they would say, well, I saw that
I had a dream about them last night,
802
00:40:48,237 --> 00:40:50,906
and they were in a good place.
They were happy and and,
803
00:40:51,949 --> 00:40:55,077
and so then, then people would be okay.
804
00:40:55,077 --> 00:40:57,830
So they're okay now and, and
805
00:40:57,830 --> 00:41:00,708
well,
nobody was having a dream about this lady.
806
00:41:00,708 --> 00:41:03,252
And, went a few weeks, then went a month.
807
00:41:03,252 --> 00:41:08,382
And people started to talk about it like,
why isn't anybody dreaming about her?
808
00:41:08,382 --> 00:41:10,634
What where did she go,
what happened to her?
809
00:41:10,634 --> 00:41:13,429
And and why is nobody dreaming about her?
810
00:41:13,429 --> 00:41:17,016
And then after about two months,
there was an old old man.
811
00:41:17,016 --> 00:41:19,894
And in their community,
the elders are just highly respected.
812
00:41:19,894 --> 00:41:24,857
And this very old man came to her daughter
and said, last night
813
00:41:24,857 --> 00:41:28,152
I had a dream about your mother,
and she was in a good place.
814
00:41:28,152 --> 00:41:29,695
She was happy,
815
00:41:29,695 --> 00:41:32,698
and she had one of those things on her
head that the Sunday school teachers wear.
816
00:41:33,365 --> 00:41:39,163
And, because it had become
a topic of conversation in the village
817
00:41:39,705 --> 00:41:43,959
about why nobody was having a dream
about this lady, then that story spread.
818
00:41:44,627 --> 00:41:48,422
All. Over and everybody heard it,
and everybody
819
00:41:48,964 --> 00:41:52,176
interpreted the fact
that she had that thing on her head, that
820
00:41:52,176 --> 00:41:55,596
the Sunday School teachers wear,
as she chose to go the Christian way,
821
00:41:56,263 --> 00:41:59,391
and it was just it was so powerful.
822
00:41:59,391 --> 00:42:03,979
And I was like, oh, like,
if she would have squeezed my hand
823
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,315
and we would have told people
that they would have said,
824
00:42:06,315 --> 00:42:09,777
yeah, lots of people twitch when they die
and it wouldn't have
825
00:42:10,402 --> 00:42:13,906
it wouldn't have had any impact in the
in the community.
826
00:42:14,448 --> 00:42:18,786
But the way God did that,
it was like everybody,
827
00:42:19,453 --> 00:42:22,873
everybody was sure that she had chosen
828
00:42:23,832 --> 00:42:24,875
the Christian way, and it was
829
00:42:24,875 --> 00:42:28,879
just so much better than what
what I would have done.
830
00:42:29,505 --> 00:42:32,049
And then we had, well.
831
00:42:32,049 --> 00:42:35,052
We were praying for a man in the village
to become a Christian,
832
00:42:35,427 --> 00:42:37,721
and I had some guys that I thought
were pretty good prospects.
833
00:42:37,721 --> 00:42:38,681
They were pretty good people,
834
00:42:38,681 --> 00:42:42,226
and I thought it wouldn't
take much for them to get saved.
835
00:42:42,226 --> 00:42:45,104
And so I'd be fishing with them
and doing stuff with them.
836
00:42:45,104 --> 00:42:49,400
But I couldn't get them interested
in studying the Bible and, and,
837
00:42:49,984 --> 00:42:51,986
and then a man,
838
00:42:51,986 --> 00:42:55,781
came to Christ who was an alcoholic.
839
00:42:55,781 --> 00:43:00,911
He would deal drugs and, and,
he came to Christ and his wife got saved.
840
00:43:00,911 --> 00:43:03,247
And so I started doing
a Bible study with them.
841
00:43:03,247 --> 00:43:04,665
And he was the kind of person that
842
00:43:05,916 --> 00:43:07,626
nobody in the village could say, yeah,
843
00:43:07,626 --> 00:43:09,545
it'll work for him,
but it won't work for me.
844
00:43:09,545 --> 00:43:12,339
Like, it was like,
if he got saved, turned his life around.
845
00:43:12,339 --> 00:43:14,133
Anybody can.
846
00:43:14,133 --> 00:43:15,175
So we're.
847
00:43:15,175 --> 00:43:17,344
So then we said, okay,
let's put our Bible studies together.
848
00:43:17,344 --> 00:43:18,804
My wife had this ladies Bible study.
849
00:43:18,804 --> 00:43:21,807
I was doing Bible study with this couple
and let's put them together.
850
00:43:22,057 --> 00:43:24,977
So we're going to put our Bible studies
together.
851
00:43:24,977 --> 00:43:27,980
And I took out a list of Bible
study books that we had.
852
00:43:28,355 --> 00:43:30,774
And so we're going to choose a book
that we're going to do.
853
00:43:30,774 --> 00:43:34,111
And so I'm trying to direct them
to something
854
00:43:34,111 --> 00:43:37,781
in the New Testament like the Gospel
of John or something like that.
855
00:43:37,781 --> 00:43:38,574
And so we're
856
00:43:38,574 --> 00:43:42,369
going through the list and we,
we had a Bible study book on Leviticus,
857
00:43:42,995 --> 00:43:46,749
and this guy, this man was like,
so what's Leviticus about?
858
00:43:46,749 --> 00:43:51,587
And I said, it's no,
you don't want to study Leviticus.
859
00:43:51,587 --> 00:43:52,546
Well, what's it about?
860
00:43:52,546 --> 00:43:56,050
I said well, it's about sacrifices
and dietary
861
00:43:56,050 --> 00:43:59,970
rules and, and and he sounds interesting.
862
00:43:59,970 --> 00:44:03,265
I said it's not like,
believe me, it's not interesting.
863
00:44:03,849 --> 00:44:06,226
And so I'm trying to get them to
864
00:44:06,226 --> 00:44:09,229
we could do John
or we could do this or that and
865
00:44:09,313 --> 00:44:12,858
but he kept saying well, I still think
Leviticus sounds interesting.
866
00:44:12,858 --> 00:44:16,779
And then one of the ladies was like,
well I sort of think Leviticus
867
00:44:16,779 --> 00:44:17,821
would be interesting too?
868
00:44:17,821 --> 00:44:19,907
And I realized I'm going to lose this.
869
00:44:19,907 --> 00:44:23,160
And so we agreed, okay,
we're going to study Leviticus.
870
00:44:23,869 --> 00:44:26,413
And then on the way home, I told my wife,
that's a disaster.
871
00:44:26,413 --> 00:44:28,248
Like,
I don't even want to study Leviticus.
872
00:44:28,248 --> 00:44:31,752
And here these are new believers
and to study Leviticus.
873
00:44:31,752 --> 00:44:32,753
Like, why?
874
00:44:32,753 --> 00:44:35,214
Like it's it's going to fall apart.
875
00:44:35,214 --> 00:44:36,548
We're going to get two weeks into that
876
00:44:36,548 --> 00:44:38,258
and they're going to,
they're going to lose interest.
877
00:44:38,258 --> 00:44:42,721
And, but I couldn't, I couldn't
persuade them to do anything else.
878
00:44:42,721 --> 00:44:45,557
And, and so we started doing Leviticus.
879
00:44:45,557 --> 00:44:48,644
We got there the first week
and we get into Leviticus chapter one.
880
00:44:48,644 --> 00:44:50,145
And it's the sin offering.
881
00:44:50,145 --> 00:44:56,110
And it has to be a lamb a year
old without blemish and you bring it.
882
00:44:56,110 --> 00:44:59,446
And the the person who, sacrificing it,
883
00:44:59,446 --> 00:45:03,367
has put his hand on its head
and slit its throat and and all that.
884
00:45:03,367 --> 00:45:05,119
And they were like,
that's really interesting.
885
00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:07,871
Like we have a sacrifice
kind of like that.
886
00:45:07,871 --> 00:45:12,376
It's a different animal,
but it has to be, a certain age.
887
00:45:12,376 --> 00:45:14,169
It has to be without any spots.
888
00:45:14,169 --> 00:45:18,382
It and there's a procedure
you go through as to how it's killed and,
889
00:45:18,966 --> 00:45:22,803
and and it's, it's to be to atone for sin.
890
00:45:22,803 --> 00:45:25,806
It's the same for the same purpose.
891
00:45:26,014 --> 00:45:28,600
And then we got
into the, the grain offering
892
00:45:29,893 --> 00:45:30,310
and they were
893
00:45:30,310 --> 00:45:34,273
like, we have something like that
in traditional religion.
894
00:45:34,273 --> 00:45:36,859
Like there's things
you have to mix together
895
00:45:36,859 --> 00:45:41,029
and then you do it and it's, it's
very similar to, to what this is.
896
00:45:41,029 --> 00:45:45,534
And then we get into, the wave offering
where you wave the thing through the smoke
897
00:45:45,534 --> 00:45:46,577
and it's for cleansing.
898
00:45:46,577 --> 00:45:49,246
And they were like,
that's like our smudging.
899
00:45:49,246 --> 00:45:53,459
And, and you wave, the smoke over you.
900
00:45:53,459 --> 00:45:54,585
And it's for cleansing.
901
00:45:54,585 --> 00:45:56,920
The purpose of the smoke
is the same thing.
902
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:02,551
And and then we got to,
some of the laws about personal hygiene
903
00:46:02,551 --> 00:46:05,721
and stuff and the ladies were like,
that's what our grandmas told us.
904
00:46:06,138 --> 00:46:08,140
Like they told us that stuff.
905
00:46:08,140 --> 00:46:11,477
And then we got to I think it's chapter 25
906
00:46:11,477 --> 00:46:14,897
where it says you can't own the land
because it belongs to God.
907
00:46:14,897 --> 00:46:17,274
And they were like,
we've been trying to tell you white people
908
00:46:17,274 --> 00:46:20,319
that for 500 years,
and you think you can actually own.
909
00:46:20,319 --> 00:46:23,030
And we knew it belongs to the creator.
910
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:28,452
Then they started to say, so why is this
so similar to our traditional religion?
911
00:46:28,786 --> 00:46:31,121
Why is it so much the same?
912
00:46:31,121 --> 00:46:34,124
And we well, where did you come from?
913
00:46:34,124 --> 00:46:37,211
Like when when human beings
came off the ark, there was already
914
00:46:37,211 --> 00:46:40,589
a sacrificial system in place like,
Noah sacrificed.
915
00:46:40,589 --> 00:46:45,469
So their people left the ark
with a basic sacrificial system.
916
00:46:46,386 --> 00:46:49,389
And that sacrificial system
pointed toward Christ.
917
00:46:49,765 --> 00:46:52,768
And so just like the Jewish
sacrificial system
918
00:46:52,893 --> 00:46:55,896
that's detailed here
and in the Old Testament,
919
00:46:55,896 --> 00:46:58,899
pointed to Christ
as the ultimate sacrifice for sin.
920
00:46:59,441 --> 00:47:02,653
The sacrificial system
of traditional native religion
921
00:47:02,653 --> 00:47:06,156
points to Christ the need for a sacrifice
and points to Christ.
922
00:47:06,156 --> 00:47:09,243
So Christ is the fulfillment of your
923
00:47:09,743 --> 00:47:12,496
traditional religious practices.
924
00:47:12,496 --> 00:47:17,960
And and so this, man
that was in the Bible study said, I'm
925
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,921
going down to the medicine man,
and I'm going to tell him, you think
926
00:47:21,255 --> 00:47:22,589
that this is our
927
00:47:23,549 --> 00:47:24,716
original religion, but
928
00:47:24,716 --> 00:47:27,719
what you don't know
is all this stuff comes from the Bible.
929
00:47:27,761 --> 00:47:30,764
And and it was just like it
connected with them,
930
00:47:31,181 --> 00:47:33,767
like a tendency would be for people
to think, well, Christianity,
931
00:47:33,767 --> 00:47:35,644
that's the white people's religion.
932
00:47:35,644 --> 00:47:38,856
But all of a sudden it was like,
no it's not like it's
933
00:47:39,273 --> 00:47:44,069
our religion pointed us to Christ
and we had a sacrificial system
934
00:47:44,653 --> 00:47:45,612
that pointed to Christ.
935
00:47:45,612 --> 00:47:51,493
And it it did something
just for their sense of, of inclusion
936
00:47:51,493 --> 00:47:58,292
in the story, and that the Bible story
is also about them and about their system.
937
00:47:58,292 --> 00:48:00,252
And so I just realized, you know what?
938
00:48:00,252 --> 00:48:05,382
Like I had plans and I have things
that I think ought to be, but God is
939
00:48:06,049 --> 00:48:06,675
like, he’s just.
940
00:48:06,675 --> 00:48:11,305
He knows more than I do, and he has ways
of making happen what needs to happen.
941
00:48:12,139 --> 00:48:14,850
And so I just need to rest in.
942
00:48:14,850 --> 00:48:17,853
I'm not God. I don't know what God knows.
943
00:48:17,895 --> 00:48:20,439
And I can't do the things that God can do.
944
00:48:20,439 --> 00:48:23,650
And so he is sovereign,
945
00:48:24,276 --> 00:48:26,862
but he loves me and he's good.
946
00:48:26,862 --> 00:48:32,075
And so I can rest in that even when things
don't go the way I think they should.
947
00:48:34,077 --> 00:48:35,037
That's powerful.
948
00:48:35,037 --> 00:48:39,082
And it's also hard
because we humans, humans
949
00:48:39,082 --> 00:48:42,461
like to want to be in control of things,
you know, or know what's happening.
950
00:48:42,878 --> 00:48:45,464
And,
951
00:48:45,464 --> 00:48:47,758
Yeah, be able to figure everything out.
952
00:48:47,758 --> 00:48:49,968
so learning to rest in that. Wow.
953
00:48:49,968 --> 00:48:51,261
That's a powerful lesson.
954
00:48:51,261 --> 00:48:54,222
And it's probably pretty hard to
to live out.
955
00:48:54,222 --> 00:48:55,724
It is.
956
00:48:55,724 --> 00:48:58,727
So, do you have
957
00:48:59,019 --> 00:49:02,064
more stories or anything else
you would like to add to this episode?
958
00:49:02,064 --> 00:49:03,857
I think that's that's it.
959
00:49:03,857 --> 00:49:05,525
Wow. Well, thank you for sharing.
960
00:49:05,525 --> 00:49:08,528
and I think there's
961
00:49:08,612 --> 00:49:11,907
a lot of value in people
that have had experiences like you've had
962
00:49:11,907 --> 00:49:15,827
and, and done a variety of things
and being willing to pass that on.
963
00:49:15,869 --> 00:49:19,164
so I guess that's an encouragement
for people listening.
964
00:49:19,164 --> 00:49:21,291
You know,
if they have stories of life lessons
965
00:49:21,291 --> 00:49:24,002
they can pass on to the next generation
to encourage them to do that.
966
00:49:24,002 --> 00:49:26,964
And and I thank you for,
for doing that on this episode.
967
00:49:26,964 --> 00:49:28,256
Yeah. You're welcome.
968
00:49:29,508 --> 00:49:32,511
Thank you for listening to this episode
with Merle Burkholder.
969
00:49:32,636 --> 00:49:35,430
If you found this interesting,
leave us a rating and review.
970
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:37,808
It helps more people find this podcast.
971
00:49:37,808 --> 00:49:38,809
And of course, you can find
972
00:49:38,809 --> 00:49:42,562
all our content on our website
at anabaptistperspectives.org
973
00:49:42,729 --> 00:49:46,566
We also have an exclusive podcast
that's available to people who support us.
974
00:49:46,566 --> 00:49:49,736
For a monthly donation of any amount
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975
00:49:49,736 --> 00:49:53,323
to bonus content and a whole nother
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976
00:49:53,365 --> 00:49:56,368
It's available
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977
00:49:56,576 --> 00:49:59,538
Thanks so much for listening,
and we'll catch you in the next episode.