1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,790 Matt Edmundson: Hello and welcome to the eCommerce Podcast with 2 00:00:03,809 --> 00:00:05,840 me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:10,959 This is a show all about helping you deliver eCommerce wow. 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:16,419 And to help us do just that today, I'm chatting with Steven Schneider from Trio 5 00:00:16,479 --> 00:00:22,919 SEO about why, you should still have a blog on your eCommerce site and how to 6 00:00:22,919 --> 00:00:25,009 get content right on your product pages. 7 00:00:25,009 --> 00:00:26,669 We're getting into all of that kind of stuff. 8 00:00:26,869 --> 00:00:27,639 Oh yes. 9 00:00:27,650 --> 00:00:28,419 So you want to. 10 00:00:28,490 --> 00:00:32,100 Grab your notebooks, you're going to want to grab your pens, I think you're 11 00:00:32,100 --> 00:00:35,160 going to be taking a lot of notes from this episode, but of course, if 12 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:37,690 you're listening to this in the car, or you're walking the dog around the 13 00:00:37,690 --> 00:00:40,769 park and you don't have said notebook and pen, we've got you covered. 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:41,980 Just head over to ecommercepodcast. 15 00:00:42,599 --> 00:00:46,629 net, all of the notes, the links, the transcript, everything will be there. 16 00:00:47,039 --> 00:00:50,730 And of course, if you sign up to the newsletter, you'll Then it'll all 17 00:00:50,730 --> 00:00:52,100 come to your inbox automatically. 18 00:00:52,100 --> 00:00:53,420 You don't even have to go to the website. 19 00:00:53,469 --> 00:00:55,910 It just ends up in your inbox, which is a beautiful thing. 20 00:00:56,210 --> 00:00:58,509 So make sure you go ahead and do that. 21 00:00:58,509 --> 00:01:01,930 And of course, if you're new to the show this week, this is your 22 00:01:01,930 --> 00:01:04,959 first episode of the eCommerce podcast that you've listened to. 23 00:01:05,270 --> 00:01:06,379 It's great to have you with us. 24 00:01:06,430 --> 00:01:10,280 My name's Matt and I just love doing the whole podcast thing. 25 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:11,980 It's just, it's such great fun. 26 00:01:12,260 --> 00:01:13,840 We get to chat to amazing people like Steven. 27 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,130 We're gonna have a great conversation. 28 00:01:15,130 --> 00:01:16,289 So hopefully you enjoy it. 29 00:01:16,700 --> 00:01:20,710 And subscribe to the show, join in the community and all that sort of good 30 00:01:20,710 --> 00:01:22,500 stuff, but a very warm welcome to you. 31 00:01:23,090 --> 00:01:29,460 Now let's chat about Steven, the maestro of Trio SEO, where 32 00:01:29,460 --> 00:01:31,320 he transform, transforms? 33 00:01:31,550 --> 00:01:37,640 No, he transforms even, blogs into lead generating machines, previously 34 00:01:37,870 --> 00:01:42,550 ruling over a domain of 40 blogs and churning out 400 articles a 35 00:01:42,550 --> 00:01:45,530 month to hit seven figure Nirvana. 36 00:01:45,530 --> 00:01:45,804 I don't know. 37 00:01:47,205 --> 00:01:48,015 I love that. 38 00:01:48,295 --> 00:01:52,725 He now joins forces with Connor, Nathan, who has been on the show 39 00:01:52,805 --> 00:01:54,224 actually we'll get into that. 40 00:01:54,474 --> 00:01:58,054 And the trio SEO talents to make content your business's best friend. 41 00:01:58,064 --> 00:01:58,524 Oh yes. 42 00:01:58,524 --> 00:02:03,604 Together, they are turning the digital world into a customer catching carnival. 43 00:02:04,774 --> 00:02:06,324 That's a good alliteration. 44 00:02:06,324 --> 00:02:07,584 Steven, welcome to the show, man. 45 00:02:07,584 --> 00:02:08,234 Great to have you on. 46 00:02:08,234 --> 00:02:08,844 How are we doing? 47 00:02:08,844 --> 00:02:08,884 Thanks 48 00:02:09,909 --> 00:02:10,349 Steven Schneider: Thanks, Matt. 49 00:02:10,349 --> 00:02:14,639 That's quite the intro to have to carry, just carry my life in buckets 50 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,599 and just follow me around wherever I go. 51 00:02:16,654 --> 00:02:18,589 That was the best way to start my morning. 52 00:02:18,589 --> 00:02:22,020 If I can get that just as a automatic alarm clock, that's magnificent. 53 00:02:22,384 --> 00:02:24,225 Matt Edmundson: Yeah just take the clip, just turn it into an alarm clock. 54 00:02:24,665 --> 00:02:25,274 And why not? 55 00:02:25,434 --> 00:02:26,045 And why not? 56 00:02:26,404 --> 00:02:28,614 It's funny how you said, this is great for you to start the 57 00:02:28,614 --> 00:02:30,584 morning and I'm ending my day. 58 00:02:30,595 --> 00:02:34,815 Such is the beauty of time zones and worldwide conversation. 59 00:02:35,235 --> 00:02:36,525 But we were talking before we went on air. 60 00:02:36,525 --> 00:02:37,389 You're from London. 61 00:02:37,660 --> 00:02:40,540 You're based, I don't know if you're from Seattle, but you're in Seattle, right? 62 00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:41,290 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 63 00:02:41,290 --> 00:02:42,370 Just about an hour north. 64 00:02:42,370 --> 00:02:43,180 Born and raised. 65 00:02:43,210 --> 00:02:44,070 Been here all my life. 66 00:02:44,090 --> 00:02:45,970 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic, which means you're on the other side of the world. 67 00:02:46,250 --> 00:02:49,830 Now, if you're regulars to the show will know that last year I took a trip 68 00:02:49,830 --> 00:02:52,590 to the US and I took a slight detour. 69 00:02:52,590 --> 00:02:55,370 I went over to SubSummit which I'm going to again this year, by 70 00:02:55,370 --> 00:02:58,170 the way, if you're going to be at SubSummit, anybody listening, come 71 00:02:58,170 --> 00:02:59,220 say how's it'd be great to see you. 72 00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:02,750 But yeah, I was, I took a sort of slight detour. 73 00:03:02,790 --> 00:03:04,220 I went to Oregon. 74 00:03:04,450 --> 00:03:05,800 To Astoria, Oregon. 75 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,910 So the furthest I've ever been west in the United States the 76 00:03:08,910 --> 00:03:11,620 home of the Goonies which is just, you know what, it is famous. 77 00:03:11,620 --> 00:03:13,090 The only it's a beautiful part of the world. 78 00:03:13,090 --> 00:03:14,560 Claim to fame is the Goonies movie. 79 00:03:14,900 --> 00:03:16,610 And short circuit the film there. 80 00:03:16,610 --> 00:03:18,950 I think there's a few others that I can't remember the names of. 81 00:03:18,980 --> 00:03:22,240 Oh I think Arnold Schwartzenegger shot a movie there, but it is 82 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:23,560 a beautiful part of the world. 83 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,680 I can see why you would wanna live on that side of the of the Americas. 84 00:03:27,530 --> 00:03:29,320 Steven Schneider: Yeah, no, it's a nice little oasis. 85 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,680 We only get two months of sunshine a year, but take what we can. 86 00:03:33,405 --> 00:03:34,265 Matt Edmundson: Welcome to England. 87 00:03:34,545 --> 00:03:35,715 We don't even get two months. 88 00:03:35,735 --> 00:03:36,485 I'm not even sure, 89 00:03:39,050 --> 00:03:39,410 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 90 00:03:39,610 --> 00:03:41,250 Hard to complain when you're preaching the choir, 91 00:03:41,250 --> 00:03:42,550 Matt Edmundson: yeah, it's just one of those, right? 92 00:03:42,550 --> 00:03:44,540 Oh boy, yeah, that was a little bit sun stunned. 93 00:03:44,540 --> 00:03:45,440 I'm looking out the window now. 94 00:03:45,500 --> 00:03:46,310 Don't know where it's gone now. 95 00:03:46,340 --> 00:03:47,350 Behind a cloud somewhere. 96 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,410 So Trio SEO, working with Nathan, what's that 97 00:03:50,410 --> 00:03:51,170 Steven Schneider: it's been great. 98 00:03:51,170 --> 00:03:55,650 Yeah we met out of a really random spur of events, just connected through LinkedIn. 99 00:03:55,700 --> 00:03:59,180 Small talk led to another as I connected with Connor Gillivan, 100 00:03:59,180 --> 00:04:00,830 who's been a long time SEO. 101 00:04:02,085 --> 00:04:04,845 And yeah, we just started talking about each other's backgrounds. 102 00:04:04,845 --> 00:04:07,805 Obviously, I was aware of their free up success. 103 00:04:08,545 --> 00:04:11,575 My background in blogging, which we dive into and all this sort of stuff 104 00:04:11,575 --> 00:04:17,815 just came serendipitously to the perfect match and started discussing what would 105 00:04:17,815 --> 00:04:22,675 it be like to create a blog writing agency, given all of our expertise and 106 00:04:22,965 --> 00:04:27,565 just the kind of demand out there and this unmet match between people in the 107 00:04:27,565 --> 00:04:31,745 eCommerce space, people in other spaces looking for SEO, but also not really 108 00:04:31,745 --> 00:04:38,135 knowing how to, tread into SEO because it is this abyss of unknown territory 109 00:04:38,135 --> 00:04:40,375 for people who think it's, Black magic. 110 00:04:40,375 --> 00:04:43,875 Other people think it's out of reach and they think it's just 111 00:04:43,875 --> 00:04:45,175 never going to happen for them. 112 00:04:45,595 --> 00:04:50,305 So we're trying to take a really simple approach to delivering results 113 00:04:50,365 --> 00:04:52,565 and just keeping that our core offer. 114 00:04:52,635 --> 00:04:53,555 And it's been working really well. 115 00:04:54,060 --> 00:04:54,730 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 116 00:04:55,070 --> 00:04:58,380 Now, Nathan Hirscher, dear listeners, you may or may not remember if you're a long 117 00:04:58,380 --> 00:05:01,910 time listener, I say long time listener, he was on a couple months ago, Nathan, 118 00:05:02,350 --> 00:05:06,970 and I'd not spoken to Nathan before, I think we'd connected either on Facebook 119 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,300 something before he came on the show. 120 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,470 And so as I always do before we get to record an episode, I do a little bit of 121 00:05:13,470 --> 00:05:17,710 stalking on our guests to find out some information, and I saw that he was friends 122 00:05:17,710 --> 00:05:21,370 with Jared Mitchell, who has also been on the eCommerce Podcast and someone 123 00:05:21,370 --> 00:05:22,390 who I've become great friends with. 124 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,505 And so when Nathan came on, I'm like we're just going to We're 125 00:05:26,505 --> 00:05:27,785 going to get Jared on as well. 126 00:05:27,805 --> 00:05:29,105 It was the three of us just chatting. 127 00:05:29,105 --> 00:05:30,555 I totally sprung that on everybody. 128 00:05:30,615 --> 00:05:31,525 Which was quite good fun. 129 00:05:31,575 --> 00:05:34,365 The only time I've ever had a co host on, on the eCommerce Podcast. 130 00:05:34,635 --> 00:05:35,245 I'll remember that. 131 00:05:35,245 --> 00:05:36,305 And Nathan was a good sport. 132 00:05:36,325 --> 00:05:37,325 Yeah, it was good fun. 133 00:05:37,615 --> 00:05:40,135 So let's get into it then. 134 00:05:40,345 --> 00:05:42,575 You mentioned you've got a blog writing agency. 135 00:05:42,825 --> 00:05:45,945 Can I start off then with a slightly contentious question? 136 00:05:46,025 --> 00:05:49,325 Cause I know the answer, but surely blogs are dead, aren't they? 137 00:05:49,860 --> 00:05:51,500 Steven Schneider: We would be out of business if that was the case. 138 00:05:51,510 --> 00:05:52,870 So thankfully it's not. 139 00:05:54,835 --> 00:05:55,245 Matt Edmundson: Yep. 140 00:05:56,730 --> 00:05:58,890 Steven Schneider: Yeah, no blogging is far from dead. 141 00:05:58,890 --> 00:06:03,930 I think everyone is up in arms with just how SEO is changing nowadays. 142 00:06:03,930 --> 00:06:07,740 The most recent core algorithm update in March which was really 143 00:06:07,810 --> 00:06:10,640 targeting, spammy AI content. 144 00:06:11,090 --> 00:06:14,415 I think, without a doubt, we're going to see changes in the foreseeable 145 00:06:14,425 --> 00:06:18,645 future when it comes to SEO and how content is created and published and 146 00:06:18,645 --> 00:06:21,635 ranked, but blogs aren't going anywhere. 147 00:06:22,155 --> 00:06:22,565 Matt Edmundson: yeah. 148 00:06:22,905 --> 00:06:25,835 It's interesting you mention, we'll get into blogs and obviously how 149 00:06:25,835 --> 00:06:28,045 we do blogs and how your tools and recommendations for that. 150 00:06:28,545 --> 00:06:31,015 But I was smiling because at two, what time is it now? 151 00:06:31,015 --> 00:06:31,665 It's 4 PM. 152 00:06:31,675 --> 00:06:34,165 So an hour and a half ago, I got an email from Neil Patel. 153 00:06:34,195 --> 00:06:35,505 It wasn't a direct email. 154 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,360 I'm on Neil's email list, but apparently Neil and Jared Mitchell, who I 155 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,050 sprung on Nathan, quite good mates. 156 00:06:41,450 --> 00:06:45,650 So maybe we'll get Neil on the show, but he sent an email going through 157 00:06:45,650 --> 00:06:51,000 saying Google's March 2024 core updates was a wake up call for many in SEO. 158 00:06:51,470 --> 00:06:53,740 Outdated practices and shortcuts don't work anymore. 159 00:06:53,790 --> 00:06:54,590 Join our webinar. 160 00:06:54,755 --> 00:06:57,635 To find out why and I thought this is an interesting statement. 161 00:06:57,665 --> 00:06:59,995 So what happened in March, 2024? 162 00:06:59,995 --> 00:07:05,575 You mentioned about how Google are now looking for spammy AI articles or they're 163 00:07:05,575 --> 00:07:08,085 penalizing you for that, but was that it? 164 00:07:08,535 --> 00:07:09,935 Or was there more to it? 165 00:07:11,375 --> 00:07:12,825 Steven Schneider: that was pretty much the gist of it. 166 00:07:12,855 --> 00:07:16,205 There's always going to be some minor, tweaks under the hood when it comes 167 00:07:16,205 --> 00:07:19,635 to whatever they're changing, but there was a couple of big pillars 168 00:07:19,975 --> 00:07:25,185 of what they were trying to shake out and AI content was definitely 169 00:07:25,185 --> 00:07:26,605 at the forefront of those pillars. 170 00:07:26,910 --> 00:07:30,860 I think that it's been a long time coming, early on, Google said that they even 171 00:07:30,860 --> 00:07:36,460 had difficulty in trying to decipher AI versus non AI and human written content. 172 00:07:36,460 --> 00:07:40,300 And even if you look at a lot of the tools available where you can go and 173 00:07:40,420 --> 00:07:45,240 I can personally upload an article that I've handwritten myself and it 174 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,200 might come back as 99 percent AI. 175 00:07:47,310 --> 00:07:50,020 And these tools nowadays are just not sophisticated enough 176 00:07:50,090 --> 00:07:52,520 to decipher good from bad. 177 00:07:52,550 --> 00:07:54,930 And a lot of people are saying do you think Google can really 178 00:07:55,170 --> 00:07:56,640 decipher good as bad as well? 179 00:07:56,700 --> 00:08:04,200 And so up until this point, it had been this gray area of if you post AI content, 180 00:08:04,350 --> 00:08:07,220 be ready for any of the repercussions that might come down the road. 181 00:08:07,310 --> 00:08:12,060 And in March 2024, those repercussions finally came to life. 182 00:08:12,060 --> 00:08:17,950 And Google took their best stab at trying to pinpoint sites that, were 183 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:22,210 teetering that line or just flat out abusing it and publishing hundreds, 184 00:08:22,210 --> 00:08:26,880 if not thousands of pieces of content and was pretty unrealistic in terms 185 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,270 of how content should be produced and just the guidelines around it. 186 00:08:30,270 --> 00:08:32,120 And they were trying to abuse the system, of course. 187 00:08:32,645 --> 00:08:37,445 However, double edged sword of that is that sites that are playing 188 00:08:37,445 --> 00:08:39,145 by the rules are not creating AI 189 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:39,940 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 190 00:08:40,190 --> 00:08:43,400 Steven Schneider: And are actually top tier sites also somewhat got penalized. 191 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,900 So of course, it's never going to be a perfect foot however you look at it, but 192 00:08:47,910 --> 00:08:52,740 at the end of the day I think that what it shows is that, you can't really just 193 00:08:52,870 --> 00:08:56,110 abuse AI and expect that content to rank. 194 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,080 It's going to be looked at differently as it should, people shouldn't be able 195 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:05,090 to post an article from chat GPT about how to cure cancer and expect that to 196 00:09:05,090 --> 00:09:07,020 rank, there still have to be guidelines. 197 00:09:07,835 --> 00:09:12,285 Given the niche, given the industry and how people are receiving that content. 198 00:09:12,295 --> 00:09:15,015 Cause if you rank on Google, there's a lot of trust that 199 00:09:15,015 --> 00:09:16,875 comes from being that top result. 200 00:09:16,885 --> 00:09:19,895 So if you read that content, you have to assume that there's 201 00:09:19,895 --> 00:09:21,195 some legitimacy behind it. 202 00:09:21,275 --> 00:09:25,645 Yeah, it was a interesting world and SEO kind of landscape for the last month. 203 00:09:26,340 --> 00:09:29,440 Matt Edmundson: I want to get into that, but before I do, let 204 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,980 me jump forward slightly and then we'll come back if that's alright. 205 00:09:31,980 --> 00:09:37,320 Because we're talking about this topic of AI, and I know, myself included, I have 206 00:09:37,330 --> 00:09:40,410 used AI tools to help me generate copy. 207 00:09:40,910 --> 00:09:40,960 Yeah. 208 00:09:41,430 --> 00:09:44,640 Whether that's, with the podcast, like generating show notes, help 209 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,090 me generate show notes, or whether it's things like I don't know, 210 00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:48,540 just a bit of copy for the website. 211 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,230 I'm sure I'm not the only person that's done that. 212 00:09:52,230 --> 00:09:54,440 So are we safe? 213 00:09:54,650 --> 00:09:56,110 Because I've not done a thousand articles. 214 00:09:56,110 --> 00:09:59,780 I've just done a bit of AI here and there, or should I be in a cold sweat night right 215 00:09:59,890 --> 00:10:01,830 now, rewriting everything that I've done? 216 00:10:03,945 --> 00:10:04,255 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 217 00:10:04,255 --> 00:10:09,265 I would say everything in moderation, if you're changing the primary CTA on your 218 00:10:09,265 --> 00:10:14,250 hero section of your homepage, You're not going to be slapped on the wrist for that. 219 00:10:14,590 --> 00:10:21,260 But, if you're doing a 200 blog article update, and it's equivalent to maybe 220 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:27,000 100, 000 words of content, you should expect some sort of backlash from that 221 00:10:27,060 --> 00:10:28,580 in the event of something happening. 222 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:33,170 I think that to the degree to which you are choosing to engage 223 00:10:34,170 --> 00:10:36,240 is going to dictate the end result. 224 00:10:36,300 --> 00:10:41,160 And I would say at the other side of that, your ability to take the original piece of 225 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:46,650 content from AI and edit, improve, match it to your brand tone, match it to your 226 00:10:46,660 --> 00:10:53,070 formalities and take it from a, say maybe a six out of 10 and then modify it into 227 00:10:53,070 --> 00:10:56,260 a 10 out of 10, which I would hope you do to put it on your site and have some. 228 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,890 All the other things and guidelines attached to it, that's not going 229 00:10:59,890 --> 00:11:02,540 to be an original piece of content, quote unquote, at the end of the day. 230 00:11:02,550 --> 00:11:07,140 So if you're strictly just taking it from chat to BT, pasting it onto your 231 00:11:07,140 --> 00:11:11,780 site and letting that stand I would say, take it with a grain of salt, that bulk. 232 00:11:12,155 --> 00:11:12,555 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 233 00:11:12,595 --> 00:11:13,385 No fair play. 234 00:11:13,525 --> 00:11:14,365 Let's get into it then. 235 00:11:14,395 --> 00:11:16,795 I Let's go back to the beginning. 236 00:11:16,795 --> 00:11:24,825 I mean you said that blogging is not dead So if I am an e commerce on why I'm an e 237 00:11:24,825 --> 00:11:28,565 commerce entrepreneur, we do have a blog so I've got I'm okay I feel like I'm in 238 00:11:28,565 --> 00:11:33,685 safe territory Steven if I'm honest with you, but if I wasn't I If I didn't have 239 00:11:33,685 --> 00:11:36,765 a blog on my established eCommerce site or if I was starting up a new eCommerce 240 00:11:36,765 --> 00:11:38,835 site, why should I think about blogs? 241 00:11:38,855 --> 00:11:39,895 Why should I have one? 242 00:11:40,900 --> 00:11:41,280 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 243 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:42,420 So it's one of my favorite questions. 244 00:11:42,420 --> 00:11:47,290 And I think the reason being is that websites and SEO, like I said, it's this 245 00:11:47,690 --> 00:11:50,140 unknown, what is it, how does it work? 246 00:11:50,140 --> 00:11:52,770 And so the best kind of description I like to tell people is that. 247 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,810 If you want your content or your site to rank organically, meaning there's 248 00:11:57,810 --> 00:12:01,480 no paid ads on top of it, you're just popping up in the results, you have 249 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,620 to give Google or any other search engine a reason to recognize and 250 00:12:05,650 --> 00:12:08,230 understand what your website is about. 251 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:13,360 So if you have, say, 10 product pages, an about page, a Contact 252 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,670 page, and a Home page that's pretty much the cap right there. 253 00:12:16,690 --> 00:12:20,970 So Google or the search engine can only understand what you have to 254 00:12:20,980 --> 00:12:24,290 offer customers based on that content. 255 00:12:24,340 --> 00:12:30,050 And so if you have a blog and you have all of these different articles and 256 00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:34,390 they're clustered together in terms of the topics and how they're over interwoven 257 00:12:34,390 --> 00:12:36,080 and maybe one builds off of another. 258 00:12:36,515 --> 00:12:41,695 If you picture an iceberg where you have all of this content below the water, so 259 00:12:41,695 --> 00:12:45,335 to speak, of your website, and that's what kind of builds out your topical 260 00:12:45,335 --> 00:12:49,955 authority and just helps Google and other people recognize, hey, you are an 261 00:12:49,955 --> 00:12:55,470 expert, you are credible, you do have this trust in all of the Kind of EAT acronym, 262 00:12:55,480 --> 00:13:00,180 which is your experience, expertise, authoritativeness and the trust built 263 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,830 into your site that proves, hey, this brand knows what they're talking about, 264 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,990 and we can actually send people to their site with some sort of trust behind that. 265 00:13:10,675 --> 00:13:11,345 Matt Edmundson: So super. 266 00:13:11,455 --> 00:13:16,685 So the reason then for me having a blog is really to help Google rank my website 267 00:13:16,695 --> 00:13:18,645 to let Google know what's going on. 268 00:13:19,165 --> 00:13:23,525 How should I approach my blog then from, I say, a customer's point of view? 269 00:13:24,860 --> 00:13:25,060 Steven Schneider: yeah. 270 00:13:25,060 --> 00:13:25,600 Great question. 271 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:30,580 So at True SEO, we take a, what we call as like a BowFu bottom of funnel 272 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,280 approach to all of our content. 273 00:13:32,630 --> 00:13:36,900 And we start to prioritize your content based on however we can get 274 00:13:37,210 --> 00:13:41,180 people who are closest bottom of the funnel engagement to your site. 275 00:13:41,190 --> 00:13:45,750 So if it's an eCommerce product, we might talk about like how to guides or 276 00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:49,980 maybe it's a versus guide or, A versus B, or it could be all these different 277 00:13:49,980 --> 00:13:54,190 things that might help people make that decision or that, click in their 278 00:13:54,190 --> 00:13:55,650 head that says, Oh, I'm ready to buy. 279 00:13:56,350 --> 00:13:58,700 Obviously, as you move away from that funnel, there's going to be 280 00:13:58,700 --> 00:14:02,560 different levels or different types of content that kind of work people in. 281 00:14:02,590 --> 00:14:07,380 But overall, it adds this cohesive strategy that allows Google and 282 00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:10,510 everyone else to understand that, Hey, maybe I need a couple extra minutes to 283 00:14:10,510 --> 00:14:13,480 decide, and I'm going to go read this article and bounce back to the product. 284 00:14:13,510 --> 00:14:15,050 And within that entire experience. 285 00:14:15,455 --> 00:14:19,715 The readers are still met with CTAs or maybe an accident to have pop ups. 286 00:14:19,725 --> 00:14:22,995 So they're still, in touch with the brand and kind of all that process. 287 00:14:22,995 --> 00:14:26,515 But at the end of the day, we like to think about blogs and specifically 288 00:14:26,515 --> 00:14:31,955 the keywords that we merge within blogs as doors to your website. 289 00:14:31,955 --> 00:14:35,795 So even though an article might go after a primary keyword. 290 00:14:36,060 --> 00:14:39,320 Within the outline of the body of that article or that blog, we might 291 00:14:39,330 --> 00:14:42,540 add in 15, 20 secondary keywords. 292 00:14:42,580 --> 00:14:45,610 And those are then entry points for people to find your website based 293 00:14:45,610 --> 00:14:52,500 off FAQs or an H2 heading that could be like what is a blank, et cetera. 294 00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:53,880 So we're trying to always. 295 00:14:54,410 --> 00:14:58,060 Pinpoint what people are going to be searching for and then how we can 296 00:14:58,070 --> 00:15:01,790 bake that into the blog experience and just drive traffic to the site. 297 00:15:01,790 --> 00:15:03,639 Yeah. 298 00:15:03,719 --> 00:15:04,835 Matt Edmundson: Steven, there's a lot there. 299 00:15:04,945 --> 00:15:05,305 Jeez. 300 00:15:05,365 --> 00:15:06,225 We'll get into that. 301 00:15:06,225 --> 00:15:07,665 So just explain. 302 00:15:09,890 --> 00:15:11,320 Some terminology for me if you can. 303 00:15:11,340 --> 00:15:14,640 So Bofu, bottom of funnel, what do you mean when you say bottom of funnel? 304 00:15:16,090 --> 00:15:18,120 Steven Schneider: So bottom of funnel, there's, that's going to be the 305 00:15:18,340 --> 00:15:20,790 closest people who are ready to buy. 306 00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:23,950 So if we look at like top of funnel, these are more of the people who are 307 00:15:23,950 --> 00:15:28,600 just doing research, anything of how much does a, XYZ costs, like they 308 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,470 might be closer, but they're not ready. 309 00:15:30,490 --> 00:15:32,770 They're just getting their feelers out there. 310 00:15:33,070 --> 00:15:35,230 Middle of funnel is going to be people who are in between. 311 00:15:35,260 --> 00:15:37,050 So they are closer along. 312 00:15:37,060 --> 00:15:41,290 Maybe they're looking for something else to make that decision for them. 313 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,170 And then that's that kind of end result. 314 00:15:43,570 --> 00:15:47,220 And then bottom of the funnel is if you're looking for something, a product brand 315 00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:51,365 name specific with a serial number, like chances are you're looking to buy that 316 00:15:51,365 --> 00:15:56,010 on the go, or if you're an eCommerce website, like best articles, like best. 317 00:15:56,395 --> 00:15:58,425 Hiking jacket or best, et cetera. 318 00:15:58,455 --> 00:16:02,495 Like they're looking for the best product and they're ready with their credit card. 319 00:16:02,505 --> 00:16:08,365 So in an eCommerce landscape, if you were to curate a roundup of the top 320 00:16:08,385 --> 00:16:13,365 10 best ski jackets, and you were ranked for that organically, Against 321 00:16:13,365 --> 00:16:15,165 REI, whoever's out there, good luck. 322 00:16:15,395 --> 00:16:18,455 Chances are you're gonna be getting a lot of traffic and a lot of sales because 323 00:16:18,485 --> 00:16:20,255 people are looking for that product. 324 00:16:20,255 --> 00:16:22,355 They're already envisioned, they've already gone through all 325 00:16:22,355 --> 00:16:24,665 the work and they're just saying, gimme the best product here. 326 00:16:24,665 --> 00:16:26,145 I'm bottom funnel means. 327 00:16:26,565 --> 00:16:28,815 Bottom of the funnel if you think about conversion tactics 328 00:16:28,815 --> 00:16:29,965 like they're ready to convert. 329 00:16:30,025 --> 00:16:30,625 They're ready to go. 330 00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:36,230 Matt Edmundson: So this is interesting because years ago when blogs, not 331 00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:38,930 when blogs started out, blogs started out in some respects before eCommerce 332 00:16:38,930 --> 00:16:43,530 did, but a while ago when we started doing the blogs in eCommerce, we were 333 00:16:43,530 --> 00:16:45,770 always told top of funnel, right? 334 00:16:45,810 --> 00:16:49,310 Go and create articles for people, top of funnel, get them onto your website, 335 00:16:49,310 --> 00:16:52,240 get their email address, nurture them through your email sequences, 336 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:53,370 and then hopefully you'll buy. 337 00:16:53,780 --> 00:16:58,180 What you said is slightly different to that tactic in the sense of you're writing 338 00:16:58,180 --> 00:17:01,920 articles to people who are bottom of funnel, they are ready to buy which sounds 339 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:03,990 to me like a very deliberate choice. 340 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,920 Or are you doing I assume you're doing both is reality is what is 341 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,620 happening, Steven, but I've not really heard that distinction before. 342 00:17:10,165 --> 00:17:13,445 In terms of blog writing before, so has that been successful for you guys? 343 00:17:13,445 --> 00:17:15,835 And I guess, how did you stumble across this concept? 344 00:17:17,295 --> 00:17:20,125 Steven Schneider: Yeah, so two questions I'll start with the latter. 345 00:17:20,125 --> 00:17:26,085 So my background is in kind of the large scale blogging aspect So this is like back 346 00:17:26,125 --> 00:17:29,925 when SEO was the Wild West and you can get away with a lot more you know back in 347 00:17:29,925 --> 00:17:35,320 the day we had 40 different blogs each in hyper focused niches and We went after all 348 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,450 of those bottom funnel keywords because they were affiliate style articles. 349 00:17:38,460 --> 00:17:40,000 So it'd be like best XYZ. 350 00:17:40,030 --> 00:17:41,210 We'd post about that. 351 00:17:41,220 --> 00:17:46,730 So having that bottom of funnel kind of idea wasn't really new news when 352 00:17:46,730 --> 00:17:50,470 we talked about trio SEO because at the end of the day, the other side of 353 00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:54,710 that conversation with anybody who's looking to SEO is there's this Kind of 354 00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:58,580 double-edged sword dilemma where people want to invest in SEO, they want to 355 00:17:58,580 --> 00:18:02,560 have all the benefits of it, but they also don't wanna wait a year for it. 356 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:07,390 And SEO is such a game of delayed gratification that when you look at how 357 00:18:07,390 --> 00:18:11,315 do you balance those two worlds, you have to say anybody who's in business, 358 00:18:11,375 --> 00:18:12,210 regardless of what you're doing. 359 00:18:13,055 --> 00:18:14,315 Is ROI focused? 360 00:18:14,605 --> 00:18:14,985 Agree. 361 00:18:14,995 --> 00:18:19,305 So at the end of the day, you can't be spending 6 to 12 months 362 00:18:19,305 --> 00:18:22,335 of someone's time and resources going after the wrong content. 363 00:18:22,455 --> 00:18:27,785 So what we do is we go after high intent keywords that are closely related 364 00:18:27,785 --> 00:18:30,185 to ideal customers for that brand. 365 00:18:30,655 --> 00:18:33,665 And then outside of that, do a reverse funnel approach. 366 00:18:33,705 --> 00:18:35,185 We'll go bottom, middle, top. 367 00:18:35,545 --> 00:18:38,935 Because at the end of the day, if SEO is not working and driving 368 00:18:38,935 --> 00:18:40,790 results, What's the point? 369 00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:45,100 Obviously, you might get backlinks, you might get other leads, but everyone who's 370 00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:50,320 engaging in SEO wants the cream of the top organic traffic that leads to more sales. 371 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,400 And so by going from bottom first. 372 00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:53,960 That's exactly what you get. 373 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,980 And then all of the other kind of topics between middle and top are more of 374 00:18:58,980 --> 00:19:00,630 what we call like solidifying topics. 375 00:19:00,630 --> 00:19:04,970 And they bake in the the well roundedness of your site and just help 376 00:19:04,970 --> 00:19:06,840 strengthen the inner pieces of it. 377 00:19:08,550 --> 00:19:09,280 Matt Edmundson: Super powerful. 378 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,770 So if I'm just looking over here on my shelf because I've actually, 379 00:19:12,580 --> 00:19:14,250 cheap plug, we have a brand. 380 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,630 Which does Omega 3, right? 381 00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:18,240 It's a vegan certified Omega 3. 382 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,470 I could wax lyrical about the amazingness of this product, Steven, 383 00:19:21,490 --> 00:19:24,150 but I won't, because this is not what this product this podcast is about. 384 00:19:24,170 --> 00:19:29,020 But let's say I'm launching, I've got my website, I sell my Omega 385 00:19:29,020 --> 00:19:30,380 3, I don't really have a blog. 386 00:19:30,780 --> 00:19:35,430 Should I then start with something like, the best Omega 3s for vegan and 387 00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:37,620 vegetarians that are out there today? 388 00:19:38,190 --> 00:19:42,745 And then, I would write a blog post that would obviously contain my 389 00:19:42,755 --> 00:19:47,745 Omega 3, as well as, say, the Omega 3 from various different competitors. 390 00:19:47,745 --> 00:19:51,795 Is that what the, these sort of the best of articles are actually about? 391 00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:53,360 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 392 00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:57,710 So in that case, yeah it's also a toss up because nobody who wants to mention 393 00:19:57,710 --> 00:20:01,310 their competitors on their site and say, Hey, here's how you direct traffic. 394 00:20:01,310 --> 00:20:05,190 So what we can do in that case is, you'd want to shine light on 395 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,010 your product, put that first and say, this is why it's the best. 396 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:09,780 And then you can always. 397 00:20:10,325 --> 00:20:13,175 Include that and say, here's are some alternative options and here's 398 00:20:13,175 --> 00:20:16,645 where we stand, competitiveness and why this is superior. 399 00:20:16,995 --> 00:20:20,805 But on top of that, if you just strictly post that one article and expect that 400 00:20:20,805 --> 00:20:24,935 to rank you just, it's not gonna have the same likeliness of success because. 401 00:20:25,790 --> 00:20:29,990 An SEO, the content strategy, you need all of the other pieces of the 402 00:20:30,050 --> 00:20:31,550 puzzle in order to bring it to life. 403 00:20:31,570 --> 00:20:35,860 And so strictly having that one article doesn't really show Google that you 404 00:20:35,860 --> 00:20:39,790 have the credibility to speak on that subject, especially if you're a new 405 00:20:39,790 --> 00:20:42,355 website and you have no domain rating. 406 00:20:42,365 --> 00:20:43,615 You don't have any backlinks. 407 00:20:43,625 --> 00:20:47,785 You don't have anything that points to your site saying, send people 408 00:20:47,785 --> 00:20:52,925 to this website, we trust that what you're offering people is factual, 409 00:20:52,935 --> 00:20:55,325 realistic, and comes with authenticity. 410 00:20:55,715 --> 00:20:57,555 And so sure. 411 00:20:57,555 --> 00:21:01,045 It'd be great to start with that article, but at the end of the day, you 412 00:21:01,045 --> 00:21:02,575 definitely want to add other content. 413 00:21:02,585 --> 00:21:05,055 Maybe it's, what are the benefits of Omega 3s? 414 00:21:05,075 --> 00:21:06,225 What are Omega 3? 415 00:21:06,245 --> 00:21:07,495 Are there other types of them? 416 00:21:07,515 --> 00:21:08,405 What are the downsides? 417 00:21:08,455 --> 00:21:09,315 What are the pros and cons? 418 00:21:09,365 --> 00:21:10,285 Like all of these. 419 00:21:10,750 --> 00:21:14,330 Other pieces of content that when you're reading that guide, you can 420 00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:19,070 internally link to other pieces and show people, Hey, if you're unfamiliar 421 00:21:19,070 --> 00:21:22,350 with Omega 3s in general, read our ultimate guide on what they are, the 422 00:21:22,350 --> 00:21:24,410 benefits of taking supplements like this. 423 00:21:24,460 --> 00:21:30,610 So just like with anything, you'd hope that there's a kind of ultimate 424 00:21:30,620 --> 00:21:34,630 sphere of content or a library of content that you can refer to if 425 00:21:34,660 --> 00:21:38,750 you're a very basic reader and you need to learn everything under the sun. 426 00:21:38,790 --> 00:21:39,750 That's how Google looks at it. 427 00:21:40,580 --> 00:21:43,380 If you're trying to be this top tier brand. 428 00:21:44,030 --> 00:21:46,390 You hopefully should know everything about it as well. 429 00:21:46,460 --> 00:21:50,860 And so that's the logic behind why more content is always better, 430 00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:55,460 but how you produce that content and how it's connected to each 431 00:21:55,460 --> 00:21:58,520 other is the core strategy of what kind of brings it all the way. 432 00:22:00,220 --> 00:22:03,180 Matt Edmundson: So this is this is an important thing actually, because we 433 00:22:03,180 --> 00:22:06,840 often say, I get asked a lot, Steven, if I'm going to start an eCommerce business, 434 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,450 what product should I sell online? 435 00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:12,790 And one of my responses is to show them what I call the product knowledge matrix 436 00:22:12,820 --> 00:22:14,490 sorry, the knowledge demand matrix. 437 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,855 This matrix is, how in demand is the product and the other axis is how 438 00:22:19,855 --> 00:22:21,225 much do you know about the product? 439 00:22:21,225 --> 00:22:24,035 And if you don't know an awful lot, how much can you know about it? 440 00:22:24,045 --> 00:22:26,255 Can you learn about this product quite quickly? 441 00:22:26,735 --> 00:22:29,885 Because you're going to want to be seen as an expert in this whole thing. 442 00:22:30,385 --> 00:22:34,195 And so presenting that knowledge then to the world, not just to Google, but 443 00:22:34,195 --> 00:22:36,145 to your customers, it becomes important. 444 00:22:36,715 --> 00:22:39,875 You mentioned then the structure becomes then the strategy of it, so 445 00:22:39,875 --> 00:22:43,975 what sort of thing should I be thinking about from a structural point of view? 446 00:22:43,975 --> 00:22:47,775 You've just given me 20 titles of a blog post that I could write about Omega 3. 447 00:22:47,795 --> 00:22:49,465 To be fair, we've got them all written thankfully. 448 00:22:49,795 --> 00:22:51,635 But say that I'm just, I don't actually know. 449 00:22:51,635 --> 00:22:54,785 I'm going to ask Jen who will know, but what sort of things 450 00:22:54,795 --> 00:22:57,155 should I be thinking about then from a structural point of view? 451 00:22:57,155 --> 00:22:58,835 You've mentioned things like backlinks. 452 00:22:58,965 --> 00:23:01,905 You've mentioned things like internal links, high intent 453 00:23:01,905 --> 00:23:03,665 keywords, all these kinds of things. 454 00:23:04,085 --> 00:23:05,545 Where do I start with that? 455 00:23:05,545 --> 00:23:07,295 Because it can be a bit bamboozling. 456 00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:11,410 Which is a great word actually, bamboozling. 457 00:23:12,610 --> 00:23:13,570 Steven Schneider: I'm going to start using that. 458 00:23:13,660 --> 00:23:18,900 Yeah, there's definitely a lot, there's SEO and that's why you know, at least at 459 00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:21,120 TrioSEO, we take a really simple approach. 460 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,920 We say, Hey, we'll focus on the content. 461 00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:24,500 We'll create the strategy for you. 462 00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:25,380 We'll do the outlines. 463 00:23:25,380 --> 00:23:25,910 We'll write it. 464 00:23:25,910 --> 00:23:26,700 We'll publish it. 465 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,670 We upload it as well and make sure that it's a very hands off approach. 466 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:35,360 Alternatively, if you have a team of writers, you can also look at just 467 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:39,000 doing strategy and outlines through us, and then we'll pass that over to you. 468 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,940 But like you were saying, when it comes to backlinks, Everyone I think is heard 469 00:23:42,940 --> 00:23:46,450 of backlinks, but at the end of the day, it's all about just maintaining 470 00:23:46,450 --> 00:23:51,590 partnerships and creating, relationships with people who can offer that trust 471 00:23:51,590 --> 00:23:55,580 or that vote of confidence over to your site and link from theirs to yours. 472 00:23:55,590 --> 00:24:00,530 So we always suggest that backlinks are like a passive, out of sight, out of mind 473 00:24:00,530 --> 00:24:01,870 thing that you should be doing regardless. 474 00:24:01,870 --> 00:24:06,480 It's very similar to investing in your retirement starting from age 20. 475 00:24:06,580 --> 00:24:07,820 If you're a brand new site. 476 00:24:08,165 --> 00:24:11,125 You're not going to touch that money for 40 years, 45 years, but 477 00:24:11,215 --> 00:24:14,165 you're going to be thankful that you did it at the end of the road. 478 00:24:14,185 --> 00:24:16,265 And so same thing with backlinks. 479 00:24:16,555 --> 00:24:21,345 But when it comes to content, the strategy is so difficult to grasp at some degree, 480 00:24:21,345 --> 00:24:25,325 because if you don't have the right tools to do the competitor research 481 00:24:25,355 --> 00:24:29,395 or perform the gap analysis on your top competitors, You're just throwing 482 00:24:29,395 --> 00:24:31,335 darts against the wall in the dark. 483 00:24:31,675 --> 00:24:35,965 And that's scary because there's time and resources that go into all of this. 484 00:24:35,985 --> 00:24:41,105 And at the end of the day, if you're coming in this with zero SEO knowledge, 485 00:24:41,125 --> 00:24:44,725 and you just know that you need content, FAQs are a great place to start. 486 00:24:44,755 --> 00:24:46,435 What are your customers asking you about? 487 00:24:46,785 --> 00:24:49,575 How can you help them by creating that content on their site? 488 00:24:49,575 --> 00:24:53,945 And then maybe if one really is popular, expand on that, take that 489 00:24:53,945 --> 00:24:56,485 into an ultimate guide and look at what competitors are doing. 490 00:24:56,745 --> 00:25:00,295 You can Google any keyword and probably get an article on it and then take a 491 00:25:00,295 --> 00:25:02,215 look at their, the structure of it. 492 00:25:02,225 --> 00:25:06,445 What are the headings reading as, what are the subheadings, all that sort of stuff is 493 00:25:06,455 --> 00:25:12,385 the outline structure and the psychology that goes into a well rounded article. 494 00:25:12,405 --> 00:25:16,655 So there's a lot to unpack, as you said, but I think at the same time, it 495 00:25:16,655 --> 00:25:21,425 depends on just taking it slow and coming in with a different set of eyes and 496 00:25:21,425 --> 00:25:22,685 looking at it through a different lens. 497 00:25:22,725 --> 00:25:25,855 And then as you're reviewing your competitors, you start to see all 498 00:25:25,855 --> 00:25:28,695 of these random keywords that you actually just glanced over previously. 499 00:25:28,695 --> 00:25:29,725 They're all baked in a copy. 500 00:25:30,365 --> 00:25:32,805 They're baked into headings across the site. 501 00:25:32,855 --> 00:25:35,685 I think it just comes in with a trained eye, I guess is a 502 00:25:35,685 --> 00:25:36,905 different way to look at it. 503 00:25:37,470 --> 00:25:40,520 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I can imagine quite, when you look at content, 504 00:25:40,530 --> 00:25:43,650 you quite quickly pick up, having done it so long, what's going on. 505 00:25:44,150 --> 00:25:46,080 But it's the untrained eye, they look at it and go, I 506 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,450 just don't know, I don't know. 507 00:25:47,860 --> 00:25:51,590 So the tools then that you mentioned there are various tools 508 00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:52,850 out there that I've come across. 509 00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:56,370 Obviously, SEMrush, Ahrefs, these are different pieces of software, which I 510 00:25:56,370 --> 00:25:58,100 think are industry standard these days. 511 00:25:58,740 --> 00:26:01,690 They all want, 50 million a month subscription fee. 512 00:26:01,740 --> 00:26:02,490 I'm jesting. 513 00:26:02,540 --> 00:26:06,080 Obviously, it's not that expensive, these aren't cheap investments, I don't think. 514 00:26:06,490 --> 00:26:09,570 Which is why I do think actually, if you're starting out, do look at an 515 00:26:09,570 --> 00:26:13,190 agency because the costs of learning and the costs of software, the cost, 516 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,430 the barriers to entry are quite high. 517 00:26:17,425 --> 00:26:19,535 And that's before you even think about the expertise and getting 518 00:26:19,535 --> 00:26:20,705 them right from sort of day one. 519 00:26:21,275 --> 00:26:24,025 I liked your analogy on the pension fund of backlinks. 520 00:26:25,175 --> 00:26:26,205 That was quite clever. 521 00:26:26,775 --> 00:26:34,120 Um, but tools wise, what is, we mentioned ChatGPT earlier on, should I just forget 522 00:26:34,130 --> 00:26:38,670 writing content with ChatGPT altogether and just, should I use it to outline? 523 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,800 Should I, I'm curious where you sit with the whole AI thing. 524 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,620 There's like programs I'm just thinking of when we came across SEO Surfer that will 525 00:26:45,630 --> 00:26:50,050 go and analyze and write blog posts for you based on information that it's found. 526 00:26:51,210 --> 00:26:53,690 I guess where should I not play is a good question. 527 00:26:54,535 --> 00:26:54,885 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 528 00:26:54,885 --> 00:27:00,655 So start by saying, I would not suggest writing a full article with ChatGPT. 529 00:27:01,015 --> 00:27:02,305 I think it's a great tool. 530 00:27:02,305 --> 00:27:06,175 I think it works great for ideas around FAQs. 531 00:27:06,185 --> 00:27:12,495 If you were to say, here's a topic or my brand or my niche and mega threes, 532 00:27:12,495 --> 00:27:17,825 for example, give me a set of customer focused FAQs that might be useful 533 00:27:17,825 --> 00:27:19,475 to someone learning about Omega 3s. 534 00:27:19,525 --> 00:27:21,415 That's your Chachapiti prompt right there. 535 00:27:21,805 --> 00:27:25,795 Switching gears and looking at things like Surfer SEO, great tool. 536 00:27:25,825 --> 00:27:30,235 We use SEO Wind, which is a very similar aspect of that. 537 00:27:30,285 --> 00:27:35,002 And what it does is it uses AI to analyze the top 10 search results for 538 00:27:35,002 --> 00:27:39,832 a given keyword and then scans what headings they're using and then allows 539 00:27:39,842 --> 00:27:43,672 you to create an outline based on that. 540 00:27:43,682 --> 00:27:47,572 So you have a competitive edge and you can alleviate having 10 million 541 00:27:47,572 --> 00:27:51,002 open tabs trying to sit between all of them and read them and memorize them. 542 00:27:51,002 --> 00:27:53,592 So anything to save time on that aspect. 543 00:27:55,822 --> 00:28:00,142 We use Ahrefs, as you were mentioning, which is a more data analysis tool 544 00:28:00,142 --> 00:28:01,682 to look at keywords specifically. 545 00:28:01,962 --> 00:28:05,752 But with that, you can look at an average estimated monthly 546 00:28:05,752 --> 00:28:07,362 search volume for any keyword. 547 00:28:07,362 --> 00:28:11,532 You can also look at the competitiveness of that relative to what's ranking. 548 00:28:12,087 --> 00:28:14,097 You take a look at people's backlink profiles. 549 00:28:14,097 --> 00:28:17,707 So if you went and looked at a competitor site and saw that they had a bunch 550 00:28:17,707 --> 00:28:20,987 of links from someone you never even thought about, maybe it's a different 551 00:28:20,987 --> 00:28:25,067 podcast or a publisher, whatever it may be, reach out to them and say, Hey, I 552 00:28:25,067 --> 00:28:28,097 noticed you have a podcast and I know that you've talked about mega threes a lot. 553 00:28:28,337 --> 00:28:30,607 I'd love to come on your show and talk about it as well. 554 00:28:30,667 --> 00:28:34,077 So just creating those relationship industries, however, you're looking at it. 555 00:28:34,077 --> 00:28:37,517 There's a ton of resources out there, but yeah, we kind of stick to the 556 00:28:37,597 --> 00:28:41,297 heavy hitting ones, like you said, they are spendy, but when you take a 557 00:28:41,297 --> 00:28:45,707 look at the fact that Ahrefs would be impossible, like not having Ahrefs, 558 00:28:45,707 --> 00:28:47,177 it's impossible to have our business. 559 00:28:47,477 --> 00:28:53,487 Like the ROI on Ahrefs is pretty successful, in terms 560 00:28:53,487 --> 00:28:54,417 of how it's leveraged. 561 00:28:54,867 --> 00:28:57,867 Yeah, it really comes down to what you're in need of at that time. 562 00:28:57,867 --> 00:29:02,337 But I think if you're a beginner who's looking to DIY it, SEO wind, Surfer 563 00:29:02,337 --> 00:29:04,547 SEO, you can get pretty far with those. 564 00:29:04,897 --> 00:29:08,727 But to your point, if you're looking to make SEO a serious investment over. 565 00:29:09,137 --> 00:29:14,147 A six to 12 month plus timeline agency is definitely gonna be best bang for 566 00:29:14,147 --> 00:29:15,737 your buck, especially with trio, SEO. 567 00:29:15,737 --> 00:29:19,937 Because not only do you not have to learn everything, we have the expertise, 568 00:29:19,942 --> 00:29:23,757 we have the infrastructure and system to take it from zero to 10, but at the 569 00:29:23,762 --> 00:29:26,492 same time, even if you were to hire an in-house person, it's probably gonna be. 570 00:29:27,417 --> 00:29:30,057 That's going to be two or three times more expensive than an agency. 571 00:29:30,067 --> 00:29:34,167 So you have to weigh out your options and see what's best for you. 572 00:29:35,572 --> 00:29:39,882 Matt Edmundson: So I guess then some deep practical questions if I can, Steven. 573 00:29:40,112 --> 00:29:42,802 If I'm writing a blog post, how long should it be? 574 00:29:43,922 --> 00:29:45,542 I imagine that's quite a common question. 575 00:29:46,267 --> 00:29:47,357 Steven Schneider: it is, yeah. 576 00:29:47,387 --> 00:29:51,087 So we usually aim for 1500 to 2000 words with an asterisk on that. 577 00:29:51,117 --> 00:29:56,707 And what I mean is that if there's a topic out there that is likely 578 00:29:56,707 --> 00:29:59,587 going to exceed that, we're not going to cut out information. 579 00:29:59,597 --> 00:30:05,167 If it's a one off thing, maybe it's like the ultimate A to Z guide on Omega 3s. 580 00:30:05,242 --> 00:30:07,912 I would hope that there's more than 1500 words of information about that. 581 00:30:08,612 --> 00:30:09,212 But 582 00:30:09,767 --> 00:30:10,137 Matt Edmundson: Depends 583 00:30:10,252 --> 00:30:12,462 Steven Schneider: devil's advocate, exactly. 584 00:30:12,862 --> 00:30:15,762 You also don't want, nobody wants to read a 6, 000 word article. 585 00:30:15,862 --> 00:30:18,772 So there has to be this thing where people say you're writing 586 00:30:18,772 --> 00:30:20,162 content for Google at that rate. 587 00:30:20,172 --> 00:30:22,452 And you're trying to stuff keywords and do all this sort of stuff. 588 00:30:22,882 --> 00:30:28,642 And on the flip side of that, we say not really, because, we understand the logical 589 00:30:28,652 --> 00:30:33,612 flow of how someone gets on that page and what information you're looking for. 590 00:30:33,662 --> 00:30:38,792 If it's something about, like a off brand thing, we might add in like a TLDR 591 00:30:38,902 --> 00:30:42,442 snippet at the top and try to summarize different sections of it because it's. 592 00:30:42,867 --> 00:30:46,257 We can, we just know how people are gonna lose interest over anything over 593 00:30:46,257 --> 00:30:48,647 4, 000 words, even that thousand words. 594 00:30:48,697 --> 00:30:52,087 You have to keep that in mind, but yeah, to play rule of thumb, 1, 595 00:30:52,087 --> 00:30:53,917 500 is probably a good ballpark. 596 00:30:54,177 --> 00:30:55,687 But don't be afraid to go over or under. 597 00:30:55,747 --> 00:30:58,097 I've even ranked articles that are 500 words. 598 00:30:58,107 --> 00:31:00,637 If it's an FAQ don't expand on it. 599 00:31:00,637 --> 00:31:04,107 Like we always like to say, there's nothing worse than trying to find a 600 00:31:04,107 --> 00:31:09,227 recipe and having to read 6, 000 words of content about your grandma's historical 601 00:31:09,227 --> 00:31:11,727 pastime, making cookies in her kitchen. 602 00:31:11,727 --> 00:31:12,917 And it's nah, just give me the recipe. 603 00:31:12,977 --> 00:31:13,197 That's what I 604 00:31:13,332 --> 00:31:15,932 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I guess you are right, yeah. 605 00:31:16,642 --> 00:31:19,122 The one of the most annoying things, isn't it, about recipe sites is you 606 00:31:19,122 --> 00:31:21,892 have to scroll right down to the bottom just to actually get to the recipe. 607 00:31:22,502 --> 00:31:25,892 And you just okay, I understand why you've done it, and I appreciate, 608 00:31:25,902 --> 00:31:29,432 you've got to make a living from this, but blimey, can we think about this 609 00:31:29,517 --> 00:31:32,047 Steven Schneider: put the recipe at the top and just put everything else below 610 00:31:32,182 --> 00:31:32,702 Matt Edmundson: please. 611 00:31:33,342 --> 00:31:36,262 Yeah, so I guess about 1, 500 words. 612 00:31:37,492 --> 00:31:39,972 Should I, how does this work? 613 00:31:40,502 --> 00:31:43,382 I feel like I'm getting a lot of free counsel here on Omega 3s, 614 00:31:43,402 --> 00:31:46,392 but let's say I want to throw in some video aspects as well. 615 00:31:46,392 --> 00:31:51,502 Does could I take my 1500 words, use that as a video script, create a talking head 616 00:31:51,502 --> 00:31:55,432 video for YouTube, throw in some nice B roll or whatever add that to the article. 617 00:31:55,432 --> 00:31:56,212 Does that help? 618 00:31:57,597 --> 00:31:58,197 Steven Schneider: Yeah, definitely. 619 00:31:58,197 --> 00:32:01,147 So that's where we look at what's called off page SEO. 620 00:32:01,502 --> 00:32:06,402 And so off page is like anything that is outside of your website, but has the 621 00:32:06,832 --> 00:32:08,622 intent to point back to your website. 622 00:32:08,622 --> 00:32:12,302 So if you posted that content on YouTube and then you embedded that YouTube 623 00:32:12,302 --> 00:32:17,372 video in that article, and that would be like a supplementary resource for 624 00:32:17,372 --> 00:32:20,862 that reader, that's going to be a great engagement tool, not only for the reader, 625 00:32:20,862 --> 00:32:24,697 but it shows Google that, Hey, Your competitors don't have a video on this, 626 00:32:24,707 --> 00:32:26,747 like maybe that has value to offer people. 627 00:32:26,757 --> 00:32:31,197 So however you can bake in more value overall is going to be 628 00:32:31,197 --> 00:32:32,167 a win at the end of the day. 629 00:32:32,642 --> 00:32:33,002 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 630 00:32:33,062 --> 00:32:33,312 No. 631 00:32:33,352 --> 00:32:33,952 Fantastic. 632 00:32:34,282 --> 00:32:34,872 Fantastic. 633 00:32:34,892 --> 00:32:40,482 So internal linking, just explain what you mean by that and why that's so important. 634 00:32:42,187 --> 00:32:42,427 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 635 00:32:42,427 --> 00:32:45,887 So internal linking a great way to visualize that is if you picture a spider 636 00:32:45,887 --> 00:32:50,787 web and the center of the spider web that kind of holds everything together, it's 637 00:32:50,787 --> 00:32:56,977 going to be your core homepage or like the main page of your content or your site. 638 00:32:57,467 --> 00:33:01,797 And then if you picture like each ring of that spiderweb as it expands 639 00:33:01,857 --> 00:33:06,727 out is going to be a content hub or what we call a content cluster. 640 00:33:06,727 --> 00:33:10,297 So maybe if it's Omega 3s, maybe it's about I'm just making stuff 641 00:33:10,297 --> 00:33:12,307 up like the history of Omega 3s. 642 00:33:12,327 --> 00:33:14,407 And then you can go into all the articles of, where they were 643 00:33:14,407 --> 00:33:15,777 discovered, why are they important? 644 00:33:15,787 --> 00:33:16,687 How long have they been used? 645 00:33:16,687 --> 00:33:18,997 And those are going to be like little string subjects off that. 646 00:33:19,257 --> 00:33:20,427 And then maybe it goes into. 647 00:33:20,882 --> 00:33:21,512 Production. 648 00:33:21,522 --> 00:33:22,212 How are they made? 649 00:33:22,222 --> 00:33:23,002 Where are they made? 650 00:33:23,002 --> 00:33:24,212 How often are they produced? 651 00:33:24,212 --> 00:33:25,192 How often should you take them? 652 00:33:25,192 --> 00:33:27,212 And it goes into all of these different little subcategories. 653 00:33:28,052 --> 00:33:32,542 And then once those pieces of content are produced, you start to find 654 00:33:32,542 --> 00:33:37,542 keywords within the body of the content that relates to a second article. 655 00:33:37,762 --> 00:33:39,832 So you'd link that article from A to B. 656 00:33:39,902 --> 00:33:44,562 And what that helps Google do is crawl your website more efficiently. 657 00:33:44,572 --> 00:33:48,612 So if you have a ultimate guide and you're like enjoying this guide, learn 658 00:33:48,612 --> 00:33:50,172 more about the history of Omega 3s. 659 00:33:50,577 --> 00:33:54,987 History of Omega 3s, quote unquote, would then be linked to a guide 660 00:33:55,077 --> 00:33:56,867 about the history of Omega 3s. 661 00:33:57,097 --> 00:33:59,667 And it just helps Google crawl and understand your website 662 00:33:59,667 --> 00:34:01,447 better as it does readers. 663 00:34:02,252 --> 00:34:07,212 Matt Edmundson: And is there, I guess I, as I'm listening to you talk, I'm 664 00:34:07,222 --> 00:34:11,372 thinking of a particular website that I know about where there is no real internal 665 00:34:11,372 --> 00:34:14,412 linking, but there's 400 blog posts on it. 666 00:34:14,872 --> 00:34:15,759 And I'm thinking, Yeah. 667 00:34:15,759 --> 00:34:21,007 And how in the world will someone's got to read 400 blog posts to figure 668 00:34:21,007 --> 00:34:24,797 out what's being said where, and then have that understanding of the 669 00:34:24,807 --> 00:34:28,137 content to then create those internal links based on what's going on. 670 00:34:28,667 --> 00:34:31,637 Is it as old school as that, or is there something out there that can 671 00:34:31,637 --> 00:34:33,167 help me create these internal links? 672 00:34:33,217 --> 00:34:35,407 Please, God, let there be something that will help me. 673 00:34:36,477 --> 00:34:36,707 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 674 00:34:36,707 --> 00:34:40,247 So there are definitely tools out there when it comes into I think Surfer has a 675 00:34:40,247 --> 00:34:42,047 tool built in that kind of offers that. 676 00:34:42,397 --> 00:34:46,157 I'm old school, so I have always steered away from tools like that because. 677 00:34:46,947 --> 00:34:51,447 What I've learned over time is that they're good, but they're not perfect. 678 00:34:51,507 --> 00:34:54,667 And so it might offer something that's not the greatest link 679 00:34:54,697 --> 00:34:58,547 opportunity, or at the end of the day, they just show you all of them. 680 00:34:58,627 --> 00:35:00,937 And maybe someone actually goes, yeah, click add all. 681 00:35:00,977 --> 00:35:02,157 And maybe that's 15 links. 682 00:35:02,337 --> 00:35:06,097 You should only aim for 3-5 internal links. 683 00:35:06,097 --> 00:35:08,737 In some cases, they're just not the most optimized. 684 00:35:08,767 --> 00:35:09,477 They're getting better. 685 00:35:10,387 --> 00:35:15,337 But what we do at Trio is we'll start with all of the content on the site, 686 00:35:15,387 --> 00:35:19,107 throw that into what we call an internal linking library, so that all of the 687 00:35:19,107 --> 00:35:24,227 writers moving forward then have access to those links and can just crawl that 688 00:35:24,227 --> 00:35:25,867 spreadsheet and say, This is what Perfect. 689 00:35:25,887 --> 00:35:27,807 There's a link on this or an article about this. 690 00:35:27,847 --> 00:35:29,887 I'm just going to bake that into my content. 691 00:35:29,907 --> 00:35:31,937 So that when we go and upload it, it's already there. 692 00:35:32,287 --> 00:35:36,227 But to your example, if you have a ton of content on your site that hasn't been 693 00:35:36,227 --> 00:35:40,497 internally linked, it's definitely going to be a one time push to get that done. 694 00:35:40,497 --> 00:35:41,437 It's probably going to suck. 695 00:35:41,627 --> 00:35:41,947 I don't know. 696 00:35:41,947 --> 00:35:43,977 There's just no, no way around it. 697 00:35:44,027 --> 00:35:47,947 But at the end of the day, like internal linking is probably one of the more. 698 00:35:49,327 --> 00:35:53,927 Underappreciated and overlooked strategies that can move the needle for a site. 699 00:35:53,937 --> 00:35:59,267 So if that person had zero internal links across 400 articles and you 700 00:35:59,267 --> 00:36:02,347 look back two months later, they're all perfectly internal linked. 701 00:36:02,657 --> 00:36:03,977 That site's definitely going to benefit from it. 702 00:36:03,977 --> 00:36:05,647 It's going to be a big win. 703 00:36:05,757 --> 00:36:09,797 But yeah, it's always better to do it in the process while you're doing anything 704 00:36:09,807 --> 00:36:11,427 rather than going back and doing it later. 705 00:36:11,427 --> 00:36:14,277 It's just, I used to do that and I learned once you got to 706 00:36:14,277 --> 00:36:15,567 touch the stove to know it's hot. 707 00:36:15,697 --> 00:36:16,737 That's never going back. 708 00:36:18,722 --> 00:36:22,892 Matt Edmundson: It used to be that I what you see now is you'll see in an article, 709 00:36:23,322 --> 00:36:27,322 an internal link on a specific phrase, which I'm assuming is deliberate in the 710 00:36:27,322 --> 00:36:30,582 sense that phrase will be a keyword of some point that will rank on Google. 711 00:36:31,352 --> 00:36:35,887 It used to be that you would just put tags at the bottom, almost like 712 00:36:35,887 --> 00:36:38,527 hashtags on an Instagram post, at the bottom, we're going to put a little 713 00:36:38,527 --> 00:36:42,717 tag cloud in and this is about Omega 3s, this one over here is about Vitamin 714 00:36:42,717 --> 00:36:45,557 D, and we'll just, we'll tag all these different things at the bottom of it. 715 00:36:46,087 --> 00:36:49,577 Do we still do the tags or are we actually putting the internal links on the text? 716 00:36:49,587 --> 00:36:51,647 Sorry to get granular, but I was just curious. 717 00:36:53,057 --> 00:36:53,277 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 718 00:36:53,277 --> 00:36:56,917 So the internal linking with the text is like a non negotiable. 719 00:36:56,957 --> 00:37:00,687 And what you described is like that keyword being optimized is 720 00:37:00,737 --> 00:37:01,787 you get the nail on the head there. 721 00:37:01,837 --> 00:37:07,837 What I usually say is the anchor text or that keyword that you're linking should A. 722 00:37:07,977 --> 00:37:11,267 Describe what the other piece of content is about so you can 723 00:37:11,277 --> 00:37:13,467 be able to look at that and know exactly what's on the other end. 724 00:37:14,007 --> 00:37:18,997 And it should also match or be close to the primary keyword that 725 00:37:18,997 --> 00:37:22,147 you want that piece of content on the other side to rank for. 726 00:37:22,237 --> 00:37:25,537 So if it's History of Omega 3s, and that's the keyword you're trying 727 00:37:25,537 --> 00:37:28,657 to go for with that second guide, that should be what's linked. 728 00:37:28,987 --> 00:37:30,907 But you want to be able to use some variants, you don't want to 729 00:37:30,907 --> 00:37:32,357 repeat it over and over again. 730 00:37:32,747 --> 00:37:37,187 To your second question about the tags, it's pretty dated, I would say 731 00:37:37,277 --> 00:37:40,657 very, probably a few people are using those cluster clouds like we used to 732 00:37:40,657 --> 00:37:44,277 see on the widgets of the sidebar and all that sort of stuff but categories 733 00:37:44,277 --> 00:37:48,147 are still a great, very effective way to organize your blog and we always 734 00:37:48,147 --> 00:37:53,707 encourage them to because, just people usually see the blog on the footer. 735 00:37:53,757 --> 00:37:58,307 If you have seven or five other categories that are worth reading, we'd put those 736 00:37:58,317 --> 00:38:01,917 on your footer, put them somewhere else and people can just quickly access them. 737 00:38:01,917 --> 00:38:05,157 And there's a lot of like tips and tricks you can do to increase 738 00:38:05,207 --> 00:38:07,977 the efficiency of your SEO. 739 00:38:08,027 --> 00:38:10,827 And so categories is definitely a great way to do that. 740 00:38:12,442 --> 00:38:17,192 Matt Edmundson: If I was if I was thinking then of doing a blog and I have a site, 741 00:38:17,202 --> 00:38:21,352 say on a standard eCom platform, I'm going to pick, I'm going to pick on Shopify 742 00:38:21,352 --> 00:38:22,742 because it's the one people know about. 743 00:38:23,252 --> 00:38:23,272 Yeah. 744 00:38:23,377 --> 00:38:29,297 I personally can't tell you if Shopify has an inbuilt blogging platform. 745 00:38:29,797 --> 00:38:33,367 I know it didn't have necessarily, and there were some apps that 746 00:38:33,367 --> 00:38:36,027 were able to help you do that. 747 00:38:36,547 --> 00:38:41,397 I don't know whether that's still the case, but do I, what software? 748 00:38:42,257 --> 00:38:46,207 Out there, if I've got to say a Shopify site, should I go and say this is a 749 00:38:46,207 --> 00:38:49,377 great blogging platform that I can use for my eCommerce website, and I'm going 750 00:38:49,377 --> 00:38:52,497 to put all my blogs on this, and it'll probably be a, I don't know, blog. 751 00:38:52,747 --> 00:38:53,037 shop. 752 00:38:53,287 --> 00:38:55,517 com domain name or something like that. 753 00:38:55,997 --> 00:38:57,757 Do, what would you recommend? 754 00:38:59,107 --> 00:38:59,327 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 755 00:38:59,327 --> 00:39:01,697 So Shopify, they have a built in blog. 756 00:39:01,717 --> 00:39:02,497 Component. 757 00:39:02,527 --> 00:39:03,577 It works really well. 758 00:39:03,607 --> 00:39:07,717 I've seen tons of sites crush, SEO from their blog through Shopify. 759 00:39:08,237 --> 00:39:11,297 The way it's set up is it's not even on a subdomain, which is, you don't have to do 760 00:39:11,297 --> 00:39:17,717 like a blog.brand.com, they just have it as an extension, as a secondary folder. 761 00:39:17,717 --> 00:39:23,947 So it'd be.com/black blog, excuse me, and then whatever that slug is gonna be. 762 00:39:24,187 --> 00:39:26,947 So yeah, it is pretty streamlined nowadays and very efficient 763 00:39:26,947 --> 00:39:28,207 if you're using Shopify. 764 00:39:28,402 --> 00:39:32,042 Even if you're like using WordPress and WooCommerce, WordPress 765 00:39:32,042 --> 00:39:33,332 is a great blogging platform. 766 00:39:33,642 --> 00:39:34,642 Squarespace. 767 00:39:34,642 --> 00:39:37,442 They're all, it's, yeah, it's 2024. 768 00:39:37,482 --> 00:39:38,552 Everyone has that 769 00:39:38,737 --> 00:39:39,707 Matt Edmundson: Everyone's doing it right. 770 00:39:39,927 --> 00:39:40,257 Yeah. 771 00:39:40,257 --> 00:39:41,877 So you don't need a separate blog these days. 772 00:39:42,772 --> 00:39:44,772 Steven Schneider: And I wouldn't even recommend that even if it wasn't an 773 00:39:44,772 --> 00:39:49,632 option because you're pretty much then essentially having to build two sites. 774 00:39:49,692 --> 00:39:55,932 So you want all of that domain authority and your brand credibility in one place. 775 00:39:55,942 --> 00:39:58,182 Again, I think going back to that iceberg mentality. 776 00:39:58,642 --> 00:40:02,322 You want the deepest, biggest iceberg in the water. 777 00:40:02,322 --> 00:40:04,182 You don't want two smaller ones. 778 00:40:04,232 --> 00:40:05,752 It's just, you don't want to build two brands. 779 00:40:05,752 --> 00:40:08,182 You don't want to have two different things going hyper focus 780 00:40:08,202 --> 00:40:10,182 everything at once, put it there. 781 00:40:11,377 --> 00:40:12,277 Matt Edmundson: That's really interesting. 782 00:40:12,437 --> 00:40:12,937 Really interesting. 783 00:40:13,387 --> 00:40:19,577 So the what about companies that have multi site as in or for 784 00:40:19,577 --> 00:40:23,247 example, our business, we have our main website, but then we have a U. 785 00:40:23,247 --> 00:40:23,407 S. 786 00:40:23,407 --> 00:40:24,447 version of the site. 787 00:40:24,457 --> 00:40:26,937 There's like an Australian version, a Canadian version, I 788 00:40:27,097 --> 00:40:28,197 think there's an Irish version. 789 00:40:28,197 --> 00:40:28,822 There may be a British version. 790 00:40:29,162 --> 00:40:34,552 A Spanish version of the website, all with their own domains in some respects. 791 00:40:34,562 --> 00:40:37,312 So actually no, it's all, as I'm saying this out loud, I'm 792 00:40:37,312 --> 00:40:39,182 answering my own question because it's all on the same domain. 793 00:40:39,182 --> 00:40:43,452 It's just got the language tag after it to give you the different languages. 794 00:40:44,222 --> 00:40:47,262 Should I be blogging therefore in different languages as well 795 00:40:47,262 --> 00:40:48,512 as doing multi currencies? 796 00:40:48,512 --> 00:40:51,252 Should I, if I'm doing, if I've got these sort of multi sites, 797 00:40:51,252 --> 00:40:53,172 like Apple has Apple UK, Apple US. 798 00:40:55,957 --> 00:40:58,117 Should I be thinking about that on the blog as well? 799 00:40:58,782 --> 00:41:02,252 Steven Schneider: I would think about it if your customers are there. 800 00:41:02,362 --> 00:41:09,107 If you have a UK audience, like obviously you don't have to write in, the UK, 801 00:41:09,107 --> 00:41:11,437 because it's like English is English at the end of the day, but if you have a 802 00:41:11,717 --> 00:41:16,447 German speaking audience maybe it makes sense to, transcribe some content over 803 00:41:16,447 --> 00:41:19,057 to German and put it on a DE extension. 804 00:41:19,427 --> 00:41:24,567 Definitely want to ensure that you have your HREF Page Reference Language Tags, 805 00:41:24,567 --> 00:41:27,367 which is a little more technical SEO component, which I don't even want to 806 00:41:27,367 --> 00:41:31,887 get into because I don't know technical stuff don't care for it, but yeah, to your 807 00:41:31,887 --> 00:41:35,977 question, if people are there looking for it you can't expect everyone to only find 808 00:41:35,977 --> 00:41:41,447 it through US or English speaking pieces of content however, what I would say then, 809 00:41:41,447 --> 00:41:46,542 too, is that you also can't assume that the same strategy is going to be a one 810 00:41:46,542 --> 00:41:53,362 to one fit with that, because back in the day many moons ago, we dabbled in doing 811 00:41:53,362 --> 00:41:55,212 affiliate sites in different languages. 812 00:41:55,702 --> 00:41:59,482 And just based on the translation, the translations are never one to one. 813 00:41:59,682 --> 00:42:05,162 So how people search for content, like instead of it being best mountain 814 00:42:05,172 --> 00:42:11,512 bikes in the U S it might be best outdoor mechanical bikes, there's 815 00:42:11,522 --> 00:42:12,852 just so many different ways and how 816 00:42:12,922 --> 00:42:13,382 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 817 00:42:14,162 --> 00:42:15,152 Steven Schneider: differences are. 818 00:42:15,552 --> 00:42:19,832 But yeah, to your question, like I would definitely suggest it's more about if your 819 00:42:19,842 --> 00:42:22,702 customers are in need of that content, you always have to think customer first. 820 00:42:23,112 --> 00:42:23,452 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 821 00:42:23,922 --> 00:42:24,182 Yeah. 822 00:42:24,212 --> 00:42:24,862 No, fair enough. 823 00:42:24,872 --> 00:42:25,302 Fair enough. 824 00:42:26,152 --> 00:42:29,782 So all the principles then that you've just gone and outlined that we've talked 825 00:42:29,782 --> 00:42:35,612 through is it the same principles for on page SEO for say my product page? 826 00:42:36,552 --> 00:42:40,092 Or should I be some thinking about something a little bit different there? 827 00:42:40,197 --> 00:42:43,817 Steven Schneider: Yeah, so with product pages, they're a little bit more unique 828 00:42:43,827 --> 00:42:50,227 in that you don't really want to steer too far outside of what's that product is. 829 00:42:50,317 --> 00:42:53,987 So you know, if you're obviously talking about Omega 3s and that 830 00:42:54,067 --> 00:42:55,627 it's a supplement product page. 831 00:42:56,182 --> 00:43:01,672 It probably doesn't make sense to include what are Omega 3s as an FAQ because 1. 832 00:43:01,792 --> 00:43:03,742 The reader knows that, 2. 833 00:43:03,862 --> 00:43:06,382 You don't want to repeat it across any other pages, and 3. 834 00:43:06,382 --> 00:43:08,592 It's just does it actually add value to the page? 835 00:43:08,662 --> 00:43:09,032 No. 836 00:43:09,502 --> 00:43:13,152 When it comes to product pages, we usually recommend like FAQs are great. 837 00:43:13,922 --> 00:43:17,692 Maybe those are company wide term policies, size, packaging, 838 00:43:17,692 --> 00:43:18,832 all the sort of stuff there. 839 00:43:19,932 --> 00:43:24,342 And then just anything that kind of adds to your brand or that product. 840 00:43:24,352 --> 00:43:27,092 Shipping delays or how is it used? 841 00:43:27,092 --> 00:43:29,602 Are there any things that you need to be unique clothing wise? 842 00:43:29,622 --> 00:43:30,612 How is it washed? 843 00:43:30,622 --> 00:43:31,202 Sizes? 844 00:43:31,732 --> 00:43:35,602 Really should just be hyper focused on that product specifically, and 845 00:43:35,602 --> 00:43:38,542 then you can always use internal links to drive the conversation 846 00:43:38,562 --> 00:43:42,352 outward and expand on a specific topic if you wanted to go that route. 847 00:43:43,312 --> 00:43:45,202 Matt Edmundson: So use internal links on the product page if 848 00:43:45,212 --> 00:43:46,532 you feel like it's necessary. 849 00:43:47,472 --> 00:43:50,102 Steven Schneider: Yeah, and even if it's not the product page 850 00:43:50,152 --> 00:43:54,412 specifically, they should be absolutely mentioned in the footer of your blog. 851 00:43:54,412 --> 00:43:59,032 So maybe you're housing three ultimate guides in your footer, where people 852 00:43:59,232 --> 00:44:02,852 just automatically scroll down to see, ultimate guide to Omega 3s. 853 00:44:03,857 --> 00:44:06,907 All of owning these and, what have recent customers said? 854 00:44:06,927 --> 00:44:10,117 Like maybe it's like you're heavy hitting pieces of content that are 855 00:44:10,117 --> 00:44:13,377 just permanently living near footer and then they're currently there, 856 00:44:13,377 --> 00:44:16,947 but maybe there's a specific topic you want to highlight in that product 857 00:44:16,947 --> 00:44:20,857 page and if so, that's a great way to internally link to that content. 858 00:44:21,192 --> 00:44:21,582 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 859 00:44:22,612 --> 00:44:27,812 How important is it I'm, just, I'm listening to the question in my head 860 00:44:27,812 --> 00:44:30,532 and it's a bit of a strange question, but let's talk about Let's talk about 861 00:44:30,532 --> 00:44:35,762 the importance of strategy here, because the reason I'm asking this Steven is 862 00:44:36,052 --> 00:44:40,162 to quote a very good friend of mine who lives in North Carolina it sounds 863 00:44:40,162 --> 00:44:43,912 like you could get busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest. 864 00:44:43,962 --> 00:44:48,072 It's that kind of it's one of my favorite phrases, I don't know why but 865 00:44:48,072 --> 00:44:53,312 it's it's one of those things where it sounds like there's a lot to do. 866 00:44:53,812 --> 00:44:57,232 And I'm just thinking of, if I'm starting my eCommerce business or it's still 867 00:44:57,232 --> 00:45:00,022 like a side hustle or, there's just two or three of us in the business, 868 00:45:00,022 --> 00:45:02,372 we're turning over a couple of hundred grand, we've not reached the dizzy 869 00:45:02,372 --> 00:45:06,012 heights for a million a year yet, Steve, and I've not got the staff nor really 870 00:45:06,012 --> 00:45:08,062 the money to go and spend on agency. 871 00:45:08,612 --> 00:45:10,322 How important is strategy here? 872 00:45:10,322 --> 00:45:10,682 And I guess. 873 00:45:10,912 --> 00:45:14,772 How do we start to form the strategy so we don't become busy fools? 874 00:45:16,402 --> 00:45:16,592 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 875 00:45:16,592 --> 00:45:17,072 That's a weird question. 876 00:45:17,192 --> 00:45:21,432 So if you're doing like a DIY approach to your SEO and you're still like 877 00:45:21,432 --> 00:45:30,267 in that, you Like I said, I focus on how can you ensure that the customer 878 00:45:30,277 --> 00:45:34,737 has all that information needed to convert and pull the trigger on that. 879 00:45:34,767 --> 00:45:37,507 So what FAQs are they being asked a lot? 880 00:45:37,517 --> 00:45:38,977 How are the return policies? 881 00:45:38,977 --> 00:45:41,787 What's the shipping like, what's the packaging and handling like all 882 00:45:41,787 --> 00:45:45,167 those like easy wins, low hanging fruit, that should be done deal. 883 00:45:45,837 --> 00:45:48,107 if there's something that seems like it's a little bit more. 884 00:45:48,422 --> 00:45:51,832 In depth, create a blog around it and just know that you're creating 885 00:45:51,832 --> 00:45:55,842 that content for customers, not for the ranking purposes that you would 886 00:45:55,842 --> 00:45:57,552 hope to get organic traffic from. 887 00:45:58,042 --> 00:46:01,482 And then outside of that, look at the bottom funnel and really put 888 00:46:01,482 --> 00:46:05,382 yourself into the customer's mindset and take a look at the keywords. 889 00:46:05,382 --> 00:46:08,202 You can also use there's a lot of free tools out there that'll get 890 00:46:08,202 --> 00:46:11,682 you started and, at least show you what keywords are available. 891 00:46:12,062 --> 00:46:14,812 And then what we do is we just put on that customer hat and say, 892 00:46:15,252 --> 00:46:19,012 how are they thinking about this keyword and what is their actual end 893 00:46:19,012 --> 00:46:20,782 result when there's typing this in? 894 00:46:21,702 --> 00:46:24,342 Even take it one step further, go and type it in and Google yourself. 895 00:46:24,402 --> 00:46:25,392 See what's coming up. 896 00:46:25,412 --> 00:46:28,622 See what people are actually writing content around and then see how 897 00:46:28,622 --> 00:46:32,182 you can match that and exceed that content and put it on your site. 898 00:46:32,192 --> 00:46:32,652 So yeah. 899 00:46:33,052 --> 00:46:35,762 Like SEO is everything is, everything's going to be customer focused. 900 00:46:35,822 --> 00:46:39,762 So I feel like a broken record player to some degree, but it's so true, if 901 00:46:39,762 --> 00:46:42,982 you're creating content for yourself and because you think it's going 902 00:46:42,982 --> 00:46:46,302 to be this great piece of content, it's, you're not the decider at the 903 00:46:46,332 --> 00:46:46,762 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 904 00:46:46,762 --> 00:46:47,062 Yeah. 905 00:46:47,122 --> 00:46:47,922 Steven Schneider: someone else is. 906 00:46:48,092 --> 00:46:51,872 That really just ask your customers, don't be afraid to just say, Hey, what are 907 00:46:51,872 --> 00:46:53,242 these topics that are of interest to you? 908 00:46:53,252 --> 00:46:55,132 You don't actually have to produce them, but. 909 00:46:55,522 --> 00:46:58,372 Start talking to people, getting that, foot in the door and just 910 00:46:58,372 --> 00:47:00,142 seeing where that conversation lies. 911 00:47:00,492 --> 00:47:03,722 Cause they're decision makers at the end of the day for your brand. 912 00:47:03,792 --> 00:47:06,012 So everything should be focused around them. 913 00:47:06,752 --> 00:47:08,062 Matt Edmundson: That's super, super important. 914 00:47:08,072 --> 00:47:11,682 I've often told the story that one of the things that I look back at, my sort 915 00:47:11,682 --> 00:47:15,042 of eCom career, I've been around a little while, we had this one website, which was 916 00:47:15,042 --> 00:47:16,602 a beauty website, it was doing super well. 917 00:47:17,052 --> 00:47:21,012 And I came to a point where I looked at the site and I realised. 918 00:47:21,637 --> 00:47:27,997 I personally was the guy that had designed the layout for every single iteration 919 00:47:27,997 --> 00:47:29,507 of that website up until this point. 920 00:47:30,057 --> 00:47:32,857 And this was maybe, when would this have been? 921 00:47:33,807 --> 00:47:35,417 Maybe seven or eight years ago. 922 00:47:36,777 --> 00:47:38,307 Maybe even 90, it was a while ago. 923 00:47:38,507 --> 00:47:41,517 And I, we'd gone like through four different designs and I'd played 924 00:47:41,517 --> 00:47:43,917 around in Photoshop and gone, I think we could do this, that and the other. 925 00:47:43,917 --> 00:47:46,007 And then we brought a branding guy in and he was like, Oh, 926 00:47:46,007 --> 00:47:47,037 you could redo your brand. 927 00:47:47,047 --> 00:47:47,897 And we redid the brand. 928 00:47:47,897 --> 00:47:48,907 And it was all wonderful. 929 00:47:49,437 --> 00:47:53,242 And then I realized the guy redid the brand, He's cool. 930 00:47:53,862 --> 00:47:56,982 I've laid out the website based on what I know about eCommerce. 931 00:47:57,152 --> 00:47:57,732 I'm okay. 932 00:47:57,762 --> 00:47:59,262 I got some insight into that. 933 00:47:59,732 --> 00:48:04,302 And then I realized that actually our customers were 95 percent female. 934 00:48:04,862 --> 00:48:07,242 And I'm like, you've got a guy doing branding and you've got 935 00:48:07,242 --> 00:48:08,692 a guy designing the website. 936 00:48:09,062 --> 00:48:13,292 As much knowledge as we have, I don't know if that's the right thing to do. 937 00:48:13,682 --> 00:48:16,462 So I called a friend of mine, a guy called Rich Wise and lives in Dallas. 938 00:48:16,772 --> 00:48:20,212 And I said, Rich, have you still got, he had quite a few female 939 00:48:20,262 --> 00:48:21,482 designers working for him. 940 00:48:22,092 --> 00:48:24,892 And I said, have you still got that team, of female designers, web designers. 941 00:48:24,892 --> 00:48:27,622 And yeah, I said, I need them to redesign my website and redo the branding. 942 00:48:27,622 --> 00:48:29,502 It's we don't really have any experience in eCommerce. 943 00:48:29,502 --> 00:48:30,852 I'm like, I've got that. 944 00:48:31,262 --> 00:48:34,662 What I don't have is the female psyche, the female knowledge. 945 00:48:34,662 --> 00:48:37,412 So I'm like, can you please just create something and we'll 946 00:48:37,412 --> 00:48:38,732 make it work around eCommerce? 947 00:48:38,742 --> 00:48:39,422 And it's sure, man. 948 00:48:39,432 --> 00:48:43,452 So we did this project together and it was utterly eye opening because 949 00:48:43,452 --> 00:48:46,662 what they came up with, they were thinking about it through the lens of. 950 00:48:47,352 --> 00:48:48,672 them as a customers they were buying the kind of products that 951 00:48:48,672 --> 00:48:51,952 we were selling it's like, we would like this, we would like that. 952 00:48:52,422 --> 00:48:58,372 And it was so far removed from what I did, but the conversion rate went vertical. 953 00:48:58,722 --> 00:49:00,702 It had a big impact on our business. 954 00:49:00,702 --> 00:49:06,092 I'm thinking about some of the other websites, some of the other Ecom 955 00:49:06,092 --> 00:49:11,202 sites, one of the things that we subconsciously done, since that time, 956 00:49:11,492 --> 00:49:15,872 is for example, on the supplements site is predominantly females. 957 00:49:16,432 --> 00:49:20,132 Again, it's not all it's not as heavy as it was on the beauty website. 958 00:49:20,792 --> 00:49:23,882 So the predominant people that write copy are females. 959 00:49:24,202 --> 00:49:25,452 I don't know if that's important. 960 00:49:25,512 --> 00:49:28,602 Steven, maybe you can comment on this that maybe I've got it wrong a little 961 00:49:28,602 --> 00:49:32,402 bit here because If it's predominantly female, I have female copywriters 962 00:49:32,402 --> 00:49:36,552 write the copy who are similar to the target audience, if that makes sense. 963 00:49:36,562 --> 00:49:41,152 So I don't have 20 year olds write to 40 year olds and so on and so forth. 964 00:49:41,692 --> 00:49:42,712 Is that what you guys do? 965 00:49:42,712 --> 00:49:44,372 Am I reading too much into this? 966 00:49:45,667 --> 00:49:48,537 Steven Schneider: No, I think you're on a similar trajectory. 967 00:49:48,597 --> 00:49:49,347 I would say that. 968 00:49:49,837 --> 00:49:52,187 Less important on maybe gender. 969 00:49:52,187 --> 00:49:56,717 And I would say more important on the technical expertise of 970 00:49:56,717 --> 00:49:58,217 the person writing the content. 971 00:49:58,507 --> 00:50:05,437 For example, some things that come to mind is like legal guides, like what is a, 972 00:50:05,507 --> 00:50:10,747 um, what is a letter of intent, something like that, where you probably don't want 973 00:50:10,757 --> 00:50:14,947 a generalist writer tackling that subject. 974 00:50:14,977 --> 00:50:19,607 You probably want someone who's a legal background, or even if you start 975 00:50:19,607 --> 00:50:22,657 dabbling in finance topics, which are always super sensitive, what is a 976 00:50:22,657 --> 00:50:25,447 Roth IRA or what is a versus anything? 977 00:50:25,447 --> 00:50:27,657 It's those have to be very specific. 978 00:50:27,967 --> 00:50:29,607 And Google also takes that into consideration. 979 00:50:29,607 --> 00:50:34,477 There are certain niches with that fall within the your money, your life 980 00:50:34,667 --> 00:50:39,257 kind of category of health and finance that they need that credible writer to 981 00:50:39,257 --> 00:50:41,377 succeed and for that content to flourish. 982 00:50:41,387 --> 00:50:44,427 So I definitely think that when it comes down to it, someone who's 983 00:50:44,427 --> 00:50:46,997 expecting a technical piece of content. 984 00:50:47,392 --> 00:50:49,772 Should be met with a semi technical piece of content. 985 00:50:49,802 --> 00:50:55,122 Obviously you want to simplify it, but it shouldn't be as easy as how to boil water. 986 00:50:55,192 --> 00:50:57,352 It should, have some depth to it. 987 00:50:57,557 --> 00:50:58,197 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, fair play. 988 00:50:58,572 --> 00:50:59,702 Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. 989 00:51:00,392 --> 00:51:01,142 It makes a lot of sense. 990 00:51:01,452 --> 00:51:02,672 Listen, Steven, I'm aware of time. 991 00:51:02,672 --> 00:51:05,562 I'm aware I've got 20 more questions, but I'm aware of time and I don't want 992 00:51:05,562 --> 00:51:06,892 to take up too much time from you today. 993 00:51:07,192 --> 00:51:08,262 Is there anything else? 994 00:51:08,272 --> 00:51:10,932 We've had a great conversation, but is there anything else from you that you 995 00:51:10,932 --> 00:51:12,412 want to mention before we sign off? 996 00:51:13,812 --> 00:51:15,032 Steven Schneider: No, I think we've covered a lot. 997 00:51:15,032 --> 00:51:18,452 I just want to remind people that, blogging is the iceberg of your 998 00:51:18,462 --> 00:51:22,842 brand that you're going to look back on 12, 16, 24 months later and 999 00:51:22,842 --> 00:51:24,102 wish you would have started then. 1000 00:51:24,152 --> 00:51:26,712 We're always helpful and happy to help people. 1001 00:51:27,012 --> 00:51:30,192 Get on the right track when it comes to their content and driving, 1002 00:51:30,232 --> 00:51:34,042 qualified people and the right customers to their blog and brand. 1003 00:51:34,082 --> 00:51:35,182 Yeah, trueoseo. 1004 00:51:35,182 --> 00:51:37,032 com and learn more about us there. 1005 00:51:37,872 --> 00:51:39,682 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, and if they want to reach out to you personally, 1006 00:51:39,722 --> 00:51:40,632 what's the best way to do that? 1007 00:51:40,652 --> 00:51:43,152 Just head to the website or are you on LinkedIn? 1008 00:51:43,162 --> 00:51:44,292 Do you do that kind of thing? 1009 00:51:44,932 --> 00:51:45,192 Steven Schneider: Yeah. 1010 00:51:45,192 --> 00:51:45,362 Yeah. 1011 00:51:45,362 --> 00:51:46,912 I'm pretty popular on LinkedIn. 1012 00:51:46,912 --> 00:51:48,142 I wish I'm just joking. 1013 00:51:48,442 --> 00:51:48,882 Yeah. 1014 00:51:49,252 --> 00:51:49,902 Get in line. 1015 00:51:49,942 --> 00:51:50,322 No. 1016 00:51:50,362 --> 00:51:51,372 Yeah, we're all on LinkedIn. 1017 00:51:51,382 --> 00:51:55,382 Me and Connor Gillivan, Nathan Hirsch, all of the trio founders. 1018 00:51:55,402 --> 00:51:57,942 That's the best way to get like a one on one with me and like talk. 1019 00:51:57,952 --> 00:52:00,392 I'm always loving to meet people and have coffee calls. 1020 00:52:00,812 --> 00:52:01,602 But yeah, that's great. 1021 00:52:01,602 --> 00:52:02,582 You can always reach out to the website. 1022 00:52:02,582 --> 00:52:04,972 I'm sure it'll find me somehow, but LinkedIn is definitely going 1023 00:52:04,972 --> 00:52:06,472 to be the best, more direct way. 1024 00:52:06,957 --> 00:52:07,637 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 1025 00:52:07,667 --> 00:52:12,167 We will of course link to Steven in the show notes as well. 1026 00:52:12,237 --> 00:52:15,247 And yeah, you can, if you've not got those and you're not subscribed 1027 00:52:15,247 --> 00:52:17,577 to the email, but you're not going to get them in your inbox, are you? 1028 00:52:17,577 --> 00:52:19,007 If you were, they're going to come to you. 1029 00:52:19,377 --> 00:52:21,247 But listen, Steven, thanks, man. 1030 00:52:21,247 --> 00:52:22,017 I really appreciate. 1031 00:52:22,017 --> 00:52:22,767 Great to meet you. 1032 00:52:23,852 --> 00:52:25,922 I've enjoyed the conversation about SEO. 1033 00:52:25,962 --> 00:52:27,452 I've got some questions for the team. 1034 00:52:27,812 --> 00:52:30,172 There's a few companies I'm going to send your way because I think they're going to 1035 00:52:30,172 --> 00:52:33,652 need a little bit of help, but genuinely really appreciate having you on the show. 1036 00:52:34,222 --> 00:52:36,482 Thanks for coming and sharing all your wisdom. 1037 00:52:37,432 --> 00:52:37,892 Steven Schneider: Thank you. 1038 00:52:37,932 --> 00:52:38,322 Cheers. 1039 00:52:38,332 --> 00:52:38,822 It's been great. 1040 00:52:39,442 --> 00:52:39,922 Matt Edmundson: Cheers. 1041 00:52:39,922 --> 00:52:40,232 Love that. 1042 00:52:40,262 --> 00:52:40,682 Cheers. 1043 00:52:41,852 --> 00:52:43,442 What a great conversation with Steven. 1044 00:52:43,672 --> 00:52:44,992 In fact, I can do this, Steven. 1045 00:52:45,012 --> 00:52:46,392 I can do the it was great. 1046 00:52:49,442 --> 00:52:50,002 Yeah, there we go. 1047 00:52:50,982 --> 00:52:52,802 Steven Schneider: Again, I need the soundbite for my life. 1048 00:52:52,802 --> 00:52:53,952 This is just, it's been. 1049 00:52:56,982 --> 00:52:57,262 Matt Edmundson: Awesome. 1050 00:52:57,702 --> 00:52:58,232 Awesome. 1051 00:52:58,232 --> 00:52:58,622 Brilliant. 1052 00:52:58,622 --> 00:52:59,182 Thank you. 1053 00:52:59,212 --> 00:53:03,142 And so let me just say be sure to follow the eCommerce Podcast wherever you get 1054 00:53:03,142 --> 00:53:06,772 your podcasts from because we've got more great conversations lined up and 1055 00:53:06,782 --> 00:53:08,152 I don't want you to miss any of them. 1056 00:53:08,262 --> 00:53:08,802 Any of them. 1057 00:53:09,092 --> 00:53:12,302 And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. 1058 00:53:12,532 --> 00:53:13,722 You are awesome. 1059 00:53:13,732 --> 00:53:15,452 Yes, you are created awesome. 1060 00:53:15,702 --> 00:53:17,892 It's just a burden you have to bear. 1061 00:53:17,892 --> 00:53:18,902 Steven has to bear it. 1062 00:53:19,122 --> 00:53:19,942 I've got to bear it. 1063 00:53:20,342 --> 00:53:21,422 You've got to bear it as well. 1064 00:53:21,462 --> 00:53:24,942 Now the eCommerce podcast is produced by Podjunction. 1065 00:53:24,952 --> 00:53:28,982 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 1066 00:53:29,352 --> 00:53:31,697 The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon. 1067 00:53:31,697 --> 00:53:32,947 Sadaf Beynon and Tanya Hutsuliak. 1068 00:53:33,467 --> 00:53:35,577 Theme music was written by Josh Edmundson. 1069 00:53:35,867 --> 00:53:38,547 And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or 1070 00:53:38,547 --> 00:53:42,887 show notes to simply head over to the website, ecommercepodcast. 1071 00:53:43,217 --> 00:53:46,357 net where incidentally you can sign up to the newsletter if you're 1072 00:53:46,357 --> 00:53:47,667 not signed up to it, but do that. 1073 00:53:48,177 --> 00:53:49,527 So that's it from me. 1074 00:53:49,557 --> 00:53:50,487 That's it from Steven. 1075 00:53:50,537 --> 00:53:52,577 Thank you so much for joining us. 1076 00:53:52,577 --> 00:53:54,507 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 1077 00:53:54,907 --> 00:53:55,707 I'll see you next time. 1078 00:53:55,847 --> 00:53:56,377 Bye for now.