1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,272
Rachel: What do you do to unwind
after a long and difficult day?

2
00:00:03,272 --> 00:00:07,202
Is it a glass of wine and a takeaway
or an hour scrolling Instagram?

3
00:00:07,354 --> 00:00:10,131
When we're pushed to the limit, getting quick dopamine hits.

4
00:00:10,151 --> 00:00:11,914
Seem to be the easiest thing to do.

5
00:00:11,919 --> 00:00:15,219
But we know how small improvements can compound over time.

6
00:00:15,459 --> 00:00:17,859
And my guest this week is living proof.

7
00:00:17,954 --> 00:00:20,264
So in today's episode, I'm speaking with Dr.

8
00:00:20,364 --> 00:00:26,886
Hussain Al-Zubaidi, the RCGP lifestyle and physical
activity champion, who went from being diagnosed

9
00:00:26,886 --> 00:00:34,296
with nonalcoholic fatty liver disease in his twenties
to losing 30 kilos, to competing as a triathlete.

10
00:00:34,472 --> 00:00:39,957
Hussain shares some really practical tips that will
help you find tiny, tiny changes that will help

11
00:00:39,987 --> 00:00:46,317
you to rescue your time, help you practice that
necessary care, even if you're stuck in overwhelm

12
00:00:48,930 --> 00:00:54,510
If you're in a high stress, high stakes, still blank
medicine, and you're feeling stressed or overwhelmed,

13
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,436
burning out or getting out are not your only options.

14
00:00:58,667 --> 00:00:59,117
I'm Dr.

15
00:00:59,117 --> 00:01:02,597
Rachel Morris, and welcome to You Are Not a Frog

16
00:01:06,097 --> 00:01:07,667
Hussein: My name's Hussain Al-Zubaidi.

17
00:01:07,687 --> 00:01:15,893
I'm a GP based in Warwickshire and I have a portfolio career
including the Royal College of GPs Lifestyle and Physical

18
00:01:15,893 --> 00:01:24,473
Activity Champion, as well as the Lifestyle Medicine course
lead at Red Whale and Parkrun's health partnerships lead.

19
00:01:24,773 --> 00:01:27,533
I have a few other roles outside of
that, but those are my core ones.

20
00:01:27,683 --> 00:01:29,463
Rachel: I'm sure we'll get to those, those other roles.

21
00:01:29,463 --> 00:01:32,123
So Hussein, thank you so much
for coming on the podcast today.

22
00:01:32,423 --> 00:01:39,473
I'm really interested to explore your story, so
I'd love to hear how you got into all of this.

23
00:01:39,473 --> 00:01:44,003
How did you become like the Parkrun
lead and the RCGP lifestyle champion?

24
00:01:44,003 --> 00:01:48,863
Have you always been into fitness, healthy
living and all that, that sort of thing?

25
00:01:49,013 --> 00:01:53,183
Hussein: So quite simply, I
haven't always been into fitness.

26
00:01:53,183 --> 00:01:59,483
And in fact, when I think about my younger years
and going through school and university, you know,

27
00:01:59,603 --> 00:02:06,893
movement, physical activity, the exercise was not
only something I didn't do, but I actively hated.

28
00:02:07,013 --> 00:02:10,163
Um, you know, like I, I used to despise people running.

29
00:02:10,163 --> 00:02:12,503
Like I wouldn't even give them way when I'd be driving.

30
00:02:12,533 --> 00:02:16,270
Uh, and it was raining, just 'cause I just
didn't understand why they were doing it.

31
00:02:16,270 --> 00:02:18,010
I thought it was a waste of time and energy.

32
00:02:18,310 --> 00:02:25,840
It wasn't until I was, you know, on a hospital
bed essentially with an ultrasonographer who had

33
00:02:26,140 --> 00:02:32,920
just told me that I had the, the fattest liver
that he had ever seen, that it sort of gave me the

34
00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:40,180
wake up call that at, you know, in my mid twenties
to be already diagnosed with non-alcoholic fatty

35
00:02:40,180 --> 00:02:42,627
liver disease, I thought something wasn't right.

36
00:02:42,627 --> 00:02:48,957
And, and I started to explore and try and
understand why I'd gotten myself in that situation.

37
00:02:49,257 --> 00:02:56,757
And as part of that journey, movement was a key element
to help reverse the changes that were going on there.

38
00:02:56,757 --> 00:03:02,537
And, and although my first priority was correct
this issue of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease,

39
00:03:02,837 --> 00:03:08,777
what I learned on that journey and that process
was the benefits were far wider than that.

40
00:03:09,113 --> 00:03:11,947
And now, looking back on it,
I'm glad I went on that journey.

41
00:03:11,947 --> 00:03:17,887
Not because of improving my liver's health,
but just improving my life, you know?

42
00:03:17,887 --> 00:03:21,787
And the way that I enjoy life
and, and I get things out of life.

43
00:03:22,087 --> 00:03:26,947
And if I'm being honest, if I didn't have
something as, as dramatic as that, I don't

44
00:03:26,947 --> 00:03:28,897
know whether I would've ever made that change.

45
00:03:28,897 --> 00:03:32,437
I think I still wouldn't be letting
runners across the road, even in the rain.

46
00:03:32,553 --> 00:03:34,953
Rachel: What were you doing when
you, when you had that scan?

47
00:03:34,983 --> 00:03:37,743
What, what role were you in at that point in your career?

48
00:03:37,893 --> 00:03:40,503
Hussein: So that was junior doctor role.

49
00:03:40,503 --> 00:03:42,183
So I went straight into medicine.

50
00:03:42,213 --> 00:03:49,143
I didn't do sort of a graduate entry program and like,
it really does propel you into life just so quickly.

51
00:03:49,143 --> 00:03:51,993
You know, I, I think in my mind, I, I was still a child.

52
00:03:51,993 --> 00:03:56,043
I think I was still a teenager, probably in my head
because I hadn't done anything kind of serious.

53
00:03:56,343 --> 00:04:01,593
And I just found it really stressful, not, not
just sort of the latter years of medical school,

54
00:04:01,593 --> 00:04:04,563
but just taking on all this extra responsibility.

55
00:04:04,623 --> 00:04:10,563
I felt quite alone and isolated, and I used
a lot of the things that I know now, sort

56
00:04:10,563 --> 00:04:12,993
of certain lifestyle behaviors just to cope.

57
00:04:13,323 --> 00:04:18,673
Whether it was, um, you know, going out with friends
and potentially not eating or consuming the right

58
00:04:18,673 --> 00:04:24,703
things there, or just eating takeaways or foods
that gave me kind of pleasure in the short term,

59
00:04:24,703 --> 00:04:27,133
but were, were causing harm in the long term.

60
00:04:27,433 --> 00:04:32,863
And, you know, before I knew it, I, I developed
certain behaviors and traits over a number of

61
00:04:32,863 --> 00:04:38,473
years, which had completely changed, you know,
who I was, not just visually in that I gained

62
00:04:38,473 --> 00:04:41,623
a lot of weight, but just my behavior as well.

63
00:04:41,653 --> 00:04:47,113
You know, when, when I think back and, and a lot of the
comments that my friends and families were saying, in a

64
00:04:47,113 --> 00:04:52,208
nice way, they were trying to let me know that, you know,
I, I was, I was starting to head in the wrong direction.

65
00:04:52,508 --> 00:04:59,978
But it only took sort of that realization of the diagnosis
for me to sort of actually reflect and realize that I'd,

66
00:05:00,038 --> 00:05:05,168
I'd come a long way and I wasn't heading in the right
direction, and I needed to make a course correction.

67
00:05:05,318 --> 00:05:10,913
Rachel: And in terms of your career, were you, were
you sort of very, very focused on, on success or were

68
00:05:10,913 --> 00:05:13,223
you not that bothered about career at that point?

69
00:05:13,373 --> 00:05:15,323
Hussein: I think that was my main priority.

70
00:05:15,323 --> 00:05:21,177
I think everything that I did at university
and in my early career was I wanted to seem

71
00:05:21,177 --> 00:05:23,937
successful and I wanted to be successful.

72
00:05:23,937 --> 00:05:32,217
You know, like my, my parents were very academically
focused and throughout my, um, schooling, always

73
00:05:32,217 --> 00:05:38,712
pushed me to try and achieve the best, you know, at
the real neglect of anything like physical activity.

74
00:05:38,712 --> 00:05:45,918
You know, I remember once when I was in primary school, I
think I was year three and I'd, I joined the local football

75
00:05:45,918 --> 00:05:48,378
club 'cause I wanted to try and play a bit of football.

76
00:05:48,678 --> 00:05:51,198
And I've never been in more trouble in my life.

77
00:05:51,198 --> 00:05:54,258
You think, so most kids get in trouble
for like, you know, doing something wrong.

78
00:05:54,528 --> 00:05:59,388
You know, like I remember it was days where my
parents wouldn't speak to me because they just

79
00:05:59,388 --> 00:06:04,218
thought, you know, he's neglecting his, his studies,
he's neglecting his focus that, you know, all

80
00:06:04,218 --> 00:06:06,498
I wanted to do is play a bit of footie with my,

81
00:06:06,808 --> 00:06:07,098
Rachel: Year

82
00:06:07,103 --> 00:06:07,998
Hussein: with my friends.

83
00:06:08,392 --> 00:06:12,682
So going through uni, you know, I've really
pushed myself and I, I I achieved very well.

84
00:06:12,682 --> 00:06:16,822
You know, if you looked at the results and kind
of what I was doing, you know, I was achieving

85
00:06:16,822 --> 00:06:21,232
fantastically, you wouldn't think that this person
physically is, you know, slowly falling apart

86
00:06:21,262 --> 00:06:24,652
because of how he's trying to get to that result.

87
00:06:24,952 --> 00:06:29,962
And in fact, going on this journey of, of reducing
a lot of the pressure that I was putting on

88
00:06:29,962 --> 00:06:36,292
myself academically, reducing a lot of the key
workload and, and responsibilities actually had the

89
00:06:36,292 --> 00:06:39,922
opposite effect than what I was trying to achieve.

90
00:06:39,922 --> 00:06:44,692
I thought I'd have to let go of a lot
of those kind of career ambitions and

91
00:06:44,692 --> 00:06:47,422
pushing myself from an academic standpoint.

92
00:06:47,722 --> 00:06:48,742
But it's done the opposite.

93
00:06:48,742 --> 00:06:51,952
In fact, it's, it's just given me the
head space to be a lot more creative.

94
00:06:52,252 --> 00:06:58,852
I find that when I'm, I'm trying to apply myself
at work, I can do so far more productively and in

95
00:06:58,852 --> 00:07:01,552
far more sort of focused and, and intelligent way.

96
00:07:01,852 --> 00:07:06,352
When before I think I was just, you know,
putting absolutely everything just to try to

97
00:07:06,352 --> 00:07:08,422
get that goal and it wasn't very efficient.

98
00:07:08,632 --> 00:07:14,092
Yes, it was getting results in some respects,
but it was doing that at the neglect of my

99
00:07:14,092 --> 00:07:16,132
own health and the other priorities of life.

100
00:07:16,282 --> 00:07:22,942
Rachel: And I know when we spoke before the podcast,
you told me that as soon as you focused on, yeah, how

101
00:07:22,942 --> 00:07:30,862
do I make my life easier rather than how do I become
very, very successful, that was what actually made

102
00:07:30,862 --> 00:07:34,162
you successful and that was what I'm so fascinated by.

103
00:07:34,162 --> 00:07:39,952
Because we hear, hear all this leadership stuff
around, you know, how to be more productive, how to do

104
00:07:39,952 --> 00:07:41,727
this, how to have better conversations and all that.

105
00:07:41,727 --> 00:07:47,092
And, and that's all well and good and we
talk about that a lot on this podcast.

106
00:07:47,392 --> 00:07:53,752
But it's something that I have realized pretty recently
and pretty late in life, which is really annoying to

107
00:07:53,752 --> 00:07:59,512
myself because I'm now maximizing on the self-care.

108
00:07:59,512 --> 00:08:04,312
And I did a podcast recently about, you know, I
was pretty close to burnout earlier on this year.

109
00:08:04,662 --> 00:08:08,181
And since putting the self-care in a, I feel a lot better.

110
00:08:08,181 --> 00:08:11,961
But b I'm actually getting more
done and I'm, I'm more productive.

111
00:08:11,961 --> 00:08:15,951
But it's this very, very weird,
it, it's this paradox, isn't it?

112
00:08:16,594 --> 00:08:22,954
And the way we've been brought up and everything
in us, as medics says, work harder, work harder.

113
00:08:22,984 --> 00:08:25,444
That's how you achieve more, that's
how you've been more successful.

114
00:08:25,444 --> 00:08:28,834
And like there's a little boy in year
three not being allowed to play football.

115
00:08:28,834 --> 00:08:31,294
No wonder that's the mindset that you had.

116
00:08:31,324 --> 00:08:31,684
Right?

117
00:08:31,834 --> 00:08:32,354
Hussein: A hundred percent.

118
00:08:32,741 --> 00:08:39,641
Rachel: What else do you think in our training and
in the way that we work contributes to that mindset?

119
00:08:40,101 --> 00:08:44,541
Hussein: You know, like, I think we always
feel that if we work harder, we'll get more.

120
00:08:44,871 --> 00:08:46,851
And that's just not the case.

121
00:08:46,851 --> 00:08:48,381
You know, it wasn't the case for me.

122
00:08:48,681 --> 00:08:57,891
In fact, like if we work smarter and actually work
on the tool that is going to get us the results,

123
00:08:57,891 --> 00:09:00,467
which is ourselves, then you're gonna get further.

124
00:09:00,467 --> 00:09:07,232
You know, I, I often use the analogy with colleagues
and patients of a bicycle in the sense that, you

125
00:09:07,232 --> 00:09:08,972
know, I actually have two bikes in my garage.

126
00:09:09,002 --> 00:09:13,082
One is a bike that I absolutely rag,
you know, it's like my commuter bike.

127
00:09:13,082 --> 00:09:14,372
I'll just go anywhere on it.

128
00:09:14,372 --> 00:09:15,542
I give it no love.

129
00:09:15,782 --> 00:09:18,212
I haven't lubricated it for God knows how long.

130
00:09:18,512 --> 00:09:20,582
I haven't changed the tires for God knows how long.

131
00:09:20,792 --> 00:09:23,912
And I have another bike, which is my, my pride and joy.

132
00:09:23,942 --> 00:09:29,672
You know, it's, it's carbon fiber, it, it gets more
love than even myself or probably even anyone else.

133
00:09:30,072 --> 00:09:35,622
And if you asked me to ride a hundred kilometers
on each of those bikes, same person, same fitness,

134
00:09:35,922 --> 00:09:40,946
I would be able to do it far quicker on the
bike that I've given a hell of a lot of love to.

135
00:09:41,192 --> 00:09:47,612
And it's a far more effective tool to get anything
done, whether it's climbing a mountain, covering

136
00:09:47,612 --> 00:09:50,342
a hundred kilometers or reaching a top speed.

137
00:09:50,522 --> 00:09:53,702
And that's the same case for ourselves.

138
00:09:53,882 --> 00:09:59,372
You know, I'm more able to complete
that project, that task, that busy day.

139
00:09:59,672 --> 00:10:04,952
If I myself am the well-oiled bike rather
than the bike that's been absolutely ragged.

140
00:10:04,952 --> 00:10:12,152
Done far more miles, it's done far more miles than
the, uh, than the nice bike, but it's not as effective.

141
00:10:12,452 --> 00:10:17,402
And for me, when I was looking and I was making
these changes, I didn't do it with that in mind,

142
00:10:17,432 --> 00:10:23,492
but I just quickly realized that the work that
I was doing was just to a far higher quality.

143
00:10:23,792 --> 00:10:27,542
I wasn't doing it in two weeks because I
just wanted to rush it out and get it done.

144
00:10:27,542 --> 00:10:31,622
I was taking a bit more time, but
the quality was far, far better.

145
00:10:31,922 --> 00:10:33,512
And it was starting to get noticed.

146
00:10:33,632 --> 00:10:37,202
It was starting to get rewards and acknowledgements.

147
00:10:37,202 --> 00:10:40,772
And that motivates you, but it also
helps with that career progression.

148
00:10:40,772 --> 00:10:47,372
And a number of the roles that I have gotten, and
these are dream roles that I absolutely adore doing,

149
00:10:47,372 --> 00:10:51,692
you know, it's in things that I'm really passionate
about, they've all come about because of, I've

150
00:10:51,692 --> 00:10:54,482
been noticed with some of the work that I've done.

151
00:10:54,782 --> 00:11:01,202
And if I'm being honest, if I'd done them with the
previous mindset, then they just wouldn't have had

152
00:11:01,202 --> 00:11:05,012
the same effect because I just would've done that.

153
00:11:05,042 --> 00:11:06,752
Yes, to try to do my best.

154
00:11:06,752 --> 00:11:13,944
But as we always trying to squeeze it around, not giving
it the, the real thought and care that we should give,

155
00:11:14,207 --> 00:11:18,287
Rachel: I completely agree with that, but
I have some yes buts going on in my head.

156
00:11:18,587 --> 00:11:23,957
Because I think, you know, presumably this diagnosis came
when you were sort of just finishing up being a junior

157
00:11:23,957 --> 00:11:26,507
doctor and moving into GP training and stuff like that.

158
00:11:26,837 --> 00:11:28,277
There's an awful lot to get done.

159
00:11:28,577 --> 00:11:31,607
You've gotta do a lot of surgeries, you've gotta
do your exams, you portfolios, and then you

160
00:11:31,607 --> 00:11:35,313
become a GP and there's a lot of work to do.

161
00:11:35,313 --> 00:11:38,253
And if you're a partner, there's
all the extra partnership stuff.

162
00:11:38,283 --> 00:11:44,463
And so it's a bit of a paradox saying, well, you'll
perform better if you look after yourself, but there

163
00:11:44,463 --> 00:11:49,023
is so much you're not gonna be successful unless
you get that stuff done that you need to do, which

164
00:11:49,023 --> 00:11:51,003
then gives you no time to look after yourself.

165
00:11:51,003 --> 00:11:53,168
So how did you navigate that?

166
00:11:53,396 --> 00:11:56,156
Hussein: If I'm being honest, it's hard, hard decisions.

167
00:11:56,616 --> 00:12:03,396
You need to start really reflecting on both the
small and big decisions when they come upon you.

168
00:12:03,621 --> 00:12:05,721
You know, often we want to be helpful.

169
00:12:05,991 --> 00:12:10,951
We want to look to seem like we are being productive.

170
00:12:10,951 --> 00:12:16,471
But what you need to do is decide what is really
important, what's kind of important, and what

171
00:12:16,771 --> 00:12:23,701
potentially can be left to one side regardless
of how painful leaving that to one side is.

172
00:12:24,001 --> 00:12:31,051
So there may be some fantastic opportunities that you've
had to accept that you're not gonna take it up right now.

173
00:12:31,351 --> 00:12:35,101
And I think it's that constant feeling
that another opportunity will never come.

174
00:12:35,401 --> 00:12:45,001
But if we just focus on achieving things that are within our
sphere of influence at this time, and really making tough

175
00:12:45,001 --> 00:12:51,931
decisions on potentially leaving really good opportunities
that have come at this point in time, to focus on doing

176
00:12:51,991 --> 00:12:57,661
what you can do right now to the best of your ability,
I promise you those opportunities will come again.

177
00:12:57,961 --> 00:13:00,691
And one of the key things I did was reduce my sessions.

178
00:13:00,931 --> 00:13:01,801
I'll be totally honest.

179
00:13:01,801 --> 00:13:04,771
I reduced the amount that I was earning quite significantly.

180
00:13:04,771 --> 00:13:07,531
In fact, I, I probably reduced about 40%.

181
00:13:07,831 --> 00:13:09,961
Um, so my paycheck reflected that.

182
00:13:10,261 --> 00:13:15,301
But at the beginning I thought that that just wasn't
achievable 'cause I wasn't exactly rolling in money.

183
00:13:15,301 --> 00:13:22,081
You know, I didn't feel like, uh, I, I, I had that
much finances to spare, but then as soon as I adapted

184
00:13:22,081 --> 00:13:28,921
my lifestyle to accept that I was gonna be earning
less, it didn't negatively impact my quality of life.

185
00:13:29,101 --> 00:13:33,301
Yes, I was buying different things and I
was spending my time doing different things.

186
00:13:33,601 --> 00:13:41,551
But just that time, that space to not feel like I
have further responsibilities and, and to be able

187
00:13:41,551 --> 00:13:47,534
to focus it on myself, to do things like sleep,
to, to do things like spend time with friends and

188
00:13:47,534 --> 00:13:50,714
family, that was worth every pound that I'd lost.

189
00:13:51,087 --> 00:13:57,267
And it enabled me now, whenever I think about
how I undertake work, a key part of it is like,

190
00:13:57,567 --> 00:13:59,967
what's gonna be the worth to me of that work?

191
00:13:59,967 --> 00:14:05,547
Not just financially, I want it to ensure
that it can allow me to work the hours

192
00:14:05,547 --> 00:14:07,737
that I want to do rather than have to do.

193
00:14:08,037 --> 00:14:13,467
And also the work that I'm doing, does it
reward me outside of that financial impact?

194
00:14:13,497 --> 00:14:15,627
Does it make me feel excited?

195
00:14:15,657 --> 00:14:18,507
Does it push me in a certain way?

196
00:14:18,807 --> 00:14:22,557
So I think when it comes down to it
is it's really difficult decisions.

197
00:14:22,857 --> 00:14:26,187
You know, I'll be lying to say that it's really
easy, you can just reduce this and then you're

198
00:14:26,187 --> 00:14:28,467
suddenly gonna be able to get what you want.

199
00:14:28,527 --> 00:14:34,677
I had to say no to things that I really wanted
to do that were financially really great.

200
00:14:34,977 --> 00:14:42,117
And it's by saying no to those things that it enabled me
to be able to be on a kind of a platform that allowed me

201
00:14:42,117 --> 00:14:45,027
to feel strong, rather than constantly chasing my tail.

202
00:14:45,297 --> 00:14:48,297
'Cause it was just the worst feeling
of constantly having things to do.

203
00:14:48,597 --> 00:14:50,037
Don't get me wrong, we're busy people.

204
00:14:50,037 --> 00:14:53,787
We'll always have things to do, but
that list, it needs to feel manageable.

205
00:14:54,087 --> 00:14:59,397
That treadmill speed that you are walking on needs
to feel like it's something you can maintain rather

206
00:14:59,397 --> 00:15:01,917
than constantly hoping that it's gonna get better.

207
00:15:02,217 --> 00:15:04,797
'Cause that was the other thing I was doing, you
know, I was constantly thinking, oh, do you know what?

208
00:15:05,007 --> 00:15:05,787
It's a busy month.

209
00:15:05,847 --> 00:15:08,427
Let me just smash through this 'cause it's gonna get better.

210
00:15:08,427 --> 00:15:09,357
December's better.

211
00:15:09,657 --> 00:15:14,997
I remember my wife just admitting to me one
day going Hussein, december never comes.

212
00:15:15,081 --> 00:15:16,431
It never comes.

213
00:15:16,731 --> 00:15:18,651
You keep saying this and it never comes.

214
00:15:18,656 --> 00:15:20,331
And, and, and she was totally right.

215
00:15:20,391 --> 00:15:21,651
It was, she was totally right.

216
00:15:21,651 --> 00:15:27,081
And unless I make changes right now and say no to things
that I desperately wanted to do, it wouldn't change.

217
00:15:27,081 --> 00:15:29,121
And I'm grateful that that's the case.

218
00:15:29,121 --> 00:15:31,521
And it, and as time goes on, you become better at saying no.

219
00:15:31,821 --> 00:15:35,001
Um, you, you just realize that, do you know
what another opportunity's gonna come if you

220
00:15:35,001 --> 00:15:39,171
keep applying yourself in the right way and
doing what you can do more opportunities come.

221
00:15:39,321 --> 00:15:40,761
Rachel: So what did you say No to?

222
00:15:41,048 --> 00:15:45,308
Hussein: I eventually said no
to a partnership that I was in.

223
00:15:45,398 --> 00:15:52,088
So a really well-working partnership at a practice,
um, that I'm still at, uh, in, in a different role

224
00:15:52,388 --> 00:15:55,178
that I really enjoyed, I enjoyed that partnership.

225
00:15:55,178 --> 00:16:02,348
There were a great set of partners doing fantastic
work, but at the end of the day, I just, for me, and

226
00:16:02,378 --> 00:16:07,088
with the position that I was in and the work that
I needed to do on myself, I had to say no to that.

227
00:16:07,388 --> 00:16:12,038
I had to move away from that
and, uh, allow myself the space.

228
00:16:12,338 --> 00:16:13,298
And it was difficult.

229
00:16:13,448 --> 00:16:21,098
And it probably took about five months of deliberating,
of discussing with my closest friends and family.

230
00:16:21,398 --> 00:16:28,838
And even when I sent that email and wrote that letter,
I still, a huge part of me did not want to leave.

231
00:16:29,211 --> 00:16:35,421
And looking back on it now, I'm so glad that I did, you
know, not because there was anything wrong with that role.

232
00:16:35,751 --> 00:16:40,221
Because it just wasn't right for me and what I needed to do

233
00:16:40,621 --> 00:16:42,481
.
Rachel: I guess it becomes a virtuous cycle, doesn't it?

234
00:16:42,481 --> 00:16:47,521
That once you say no once, and then it feels
like it, it really benefited you, it gives you

235
00:16:47,521 --> 00:16:51,931
a bit more permission to say no again, and,
and then it like becomes a real, a real habit.

236
00:16:51,931 --> 00:16:57,721
And it sounds like you've really nailed
the criteria that you use to say yes or no.

237
00:16:57,721 --> 00:17:02,251
What, what criteria would you say you use to
weigh up a decision about, should I do this?

238
00:17:02,251 --> 00:17:03,361
Should, shouldn't I do this?

239
00:17:03,577 --> 00:17:05,287
Hussein: Yeah, I've definitely massively improved.

240
00:17:05,347 --> 00:17:07,927
I, I, by no means have nailed
it though, if I'm being honest.

241
00:17:07,927 --> 00:17:08,977
I don't think anyone can.

242
00:17:09,277 --> 00:17:13,477
And what often happens is I go through cycles
where, you know, I've done really well, made those

243
00:17:13,477 --> 00:17:16,507
tough decisions, and then things start seeping in.

244
00:17:16,507 --> 00:17:19,837
And then you start to realize, oh, wait
a minute, I'm starting to carry a bit

245
00:17:19,837 --> 00:17:22,117
too much baggage as I like to call it.

246
00:17:22,417 --> 00:17:25,027
And then I then have to do another sort of mini purge.

247
00:17:25,027 --> 00:17:30,037
But I, I luckily, I haven't had to do this sort of major
purge that I had, that I did back at the beginning.

248
00:17:30,374 --> 00:17:34,424
But the, the criteria is, is one,
when it comes to paid work, like.

249
00:17:34,724 --> 00:17:41,504
Is it financially gonna allow me the
space to not work at other times?

250
00:17:41,504 --> 00:17:42,254
Does that make sense?

251
00:17:42,254 --> 00:17:47,174
You know, like we don't often need as
much financially than, than we get.

252
00:17:47,474 --> 00:17:53,504
And that was my first lesson in trying to actually
lean my lifestyle to a point where I didn't have

253
00:17:53,534 --> 00:17:56,444
to earn huge amounts of money to maintain it.

254
00:17:56,444 --> 00:18:04,214
So I, I very much changed my behaviors to, to mean that, I
can reduce the responsibility that financially work brings.

255
00:18:04,514 --> 00:18:07,694
So the work that I do, do I wanna make
sure does, is it financially rewarding?

256
00:18:07,994 --> 00:18:12,884
The other element is what I'm taking
on, does it fuel me beyond money?

257
00:18:12,944 --> 00:18:15,974
Does it fuel me to keep motivated?

258
00:18:15,974 --> 00:18:22,814
Does it fuel me to push me actually outside of
my, my boundaries of, of what I feel I can do?

259
00:18:23,114 --> 00:18:31,074
And then the final, and I think most important
element is will this role, will this responsibility,

260
00:18:31,074 --> 00:18:37,254
will this task that you've taken on, is this
gonna make a difference in five years time?

261
00:18:37,554 --> 00:18:42,534
So once this, this is done and you've done what
you needed to do, or potentially you've maintained

262
00:18:42,534 --> 00:18:45,174
it, how does it change things in five years?

263
00:18:45,474 --> 00:18:51,084
And I think that's been a really important element
because as I've seen my career progress to, um, where it

264
00:18:51,084 --> 00:18:58,649
is now, often it's been because I've taken on tasks that
actually were completely voluntary, i, I got no money

265
00:18:58,649 --> 00:19:02,489
for, but they've enabled me to get me where I am now.

266
00:19:02,789 --> 00:19:06,299
And I think that's the key because
yes, you need to be financially safe.

267
00:19:06,299 --> 00:19:06,899
Yes.

268
00:19:06,989 --> 00:19:11,339
You need to be pushing yourself from
a academic or creative standpoint.

269
00:19:11,639 --> 00:19:16,649
But there needs to be thought about where do you
wanna get to because you can't make those steps.

270
00:19:16,649 --> 00:19:20,189
For example, the Parkrun role, I couldn't
have just walked into that Parkrun job.

271
00:19:20,489 --> 00:19:22,679
I had to make certain steps.

272
00:19:22,679 --> 00:19:26,639
And a lot of them, you know, a hundred
percent unpaid in order to get there.

273
00:19:26,639 --> 00:19:31,949
So you need to have that, that, that sort of thought
ahead and build those building blocks in early.

274
00:19:32,249 --> 00:19:34,589
So therefore, when you're doing
these tasks, they have meaning.

275
00:19:34,589 --> 00:19:38,369
I go, yes, look, you know, this is taking
up time at the moment, but it's getting me

276
00:19:38,369 --> 00:19:40,829
to an end goal, which I want to try and do.

277
00:19:40,829 --> 00:19:45,899
And I want that role because I know the influence that
it can have on what millions of people essentially.

278
00:19:46,199 --> 00:19:52,799
So I'd really think about those kind of three criteria
when you are deciding on taking on responsibilities.

279
00:19:52,949 --> 00:19:55,832
Rachel: Do you think people use money as an excuse?

280
00:19:55,885 --> 00:19:56,215
Hussein: Often.

281
00:19:56,215 --> 00:19:56,665
Yes.

282
00:19:56,905 --> 00:19:57,625
Often yes.

283
00:19:57,625 --> 00:20:02,875
And I remember when I was leaving the partnership
and I was changing kind of what I was doing, the

284
00:20:02,875 --> 00:20:06,295
work, the amount of my friends that said, you're mad.

285
00:20:06,585 --> 00:20:12,015
Like how are you going to survive off, you
know, this massive reduction in your income.

286
00:20:12,045 --> 00:20:14,755
How are you going to, maintain X, Y, Z?

287
00:20:14,755 --> 00:20:21,685
And, and in reality, I think often we, we kind
of always live to our means and we often create a

288
00:20:21,685 --> 00:20:27,535
lifestyle which matches the earnings and sometimes
potentially even a bit more than what our earnings

289
00:20:27,535 --> 00:20:36,415
are which, which forces us to make decisions that
may not be right for our happiness, may not be right,

290
00:20:36,415 --> 00:20:39,325
for our health, may not be right for those around us.

291
00:20:39,625 --> 00:20:47,605
And what I found by reducing my need for a certain set of
earning, by trying to live a different lifestyle, that was a

292
00:20:47,605 --> 00:20:50,965
lot leaner from that respect, it just gave me that freedom.

293
00:20:51,265 --> 00:20:54,685
It reduced that pressure that I needed to maintain.

294
00:20:54,685 --> 00:20:58,345
And yes, it means that I moved to a smaller house.

295
00:20:58,345 --> 00:21:07,465
Yes, it means that I sold my Mercedes, uh, for a Mazda,
but at the end of the day, I'm, I'm so glad I did.

296
00:21:07,465 --> 00:21:14,725
Those things were giving me short-term reward, but in
reality, they weren't making me the person I wanted to be.

297
00:21:14,845 --> 00:21:18,055
They weren't giving me reasons to get up in the morning.

298
00:21:18,355 --> 00:21:22,465
So yes, they're hard decisions and yes,
it can seem like you're going backwards.

299
00:21:22,555 --> 00:21:28,315
And I think even to certain members of my family who are
kind of just so academic and career focused, they thought,

300
00:21:28,315 --> 00:21:30,415
oh God, Hussain really has gone backwards, you know.

301
00:21:30,765 --> 00:21:33,045
But when I see where I am now.

302
00:21:33,345 --> 00:21:36,015
I'm actually more financially secure than before.

303
00:21:36,315 --> 00:21:41,805
Rachel: They do say that, um, freedom of time in
good health is, is the ultimate wealth, don't they?

304
00:21:41,805 --> 00:21:48,435
And, and what you've illustrated about how you have
bought, you've used finances to get freedom of time

305
00:21:48,435 --> 00:21:53,565
or you, you've not tied yourself into getting certain
amount of money or you've not exchanged masses

306
00:21:53,565 --> 00:21:59,025
amounts of your time for money, and actually you
could have had that free time off, not had the money.

307
00:21:59,025 --> 00:22:04,275
And, and I was listening to podcasts recently about
free fun, about actually the, the fun that people

308
00:22:04,275 --> 00:22:10,125
seem to enjoy the most is stuff that comes for
free anywhere, like having a laugh with your mates.

309
00:22:10,475 --> 00:22:11,915
That is free, isn't it?

310
00:22:11,915 --> 00:22:16,025
And we, yeah, I've just been on a, a lovely holiday
and it was a really nice hotel and stuff, but

311
00:22:16,025 --> 00:22:18,515
I got quite used to it by the end of the week.

312
00:22:18,695 --> 00:22:20,435
You get hedonistic adaption, don't you?

313
00:22:20,495 --> 00:22:22,355
No, not he hedonic adaption.

314
00:22:22,355 --> 00:22:23,165
I think that's the phrase.

315
00:22:23,165 --> 00:22:27,705
Like your Mercedes, you probably loved it for the first
month, then it just became like, it's my Mercedes.

316
00:22:27,765 --> 00:22:32,415
And yes, it's nice to have a nice car, but
a Mazda does exactly the same job, you know.

317
00:22:32,415 --> 00:22:37,215
And how many extra sessions would you have to
work to get the Mercedes versus the other thing?

318
00:22:37,615 --> 00:22:42,652
So I think this, this thing about money,
we use it as an excuse and then we can

319
00:22:42,652 --> 00:22:44,602
get ourselves trapped into the lifestyle.

320
00:22:44,752 --> 00:22:46,342
Hussein: And it's a taboo topic as well.

321
00:22:46,342 --> 00:22:48,322
It is a taboo topic to talk about.

322
00:22:48,622 --> 00:22:55,372
And often, like I'll see friends, uh, and other
colleagues and other GPs that, they're making

323
00:22:55,372 --> 00:23:02,122
financial decisions that I just know is gonna tie
them into a lot of responsibility and a lot of stress.

324
00:23:02,422 --> 00:23:08,722
But I feel unable to really be able to talk to 'em
about it in a, in a just an open and, and, and kind

325
00:23:08,722 --> 00:23:10,462
of honest way and just discuss things, you know.

326
00:23:10,462 --> 00:23:16,822
These things, it just, it's very taboo to talk about
and I think that we should speak about it more because

327
00:23:17,122 --> 00:23:21,502
we get no training really on how to finance our life.

328
00:23:21,852 --> 00:23:23,262
Such an important thing.

329
00:23:23,262 --> 00:23:28,812
And, and it is important not just for us, but for those
around us and the people that we're responsible for.

330
00:23:29,041 --> 00:23:34,681
Rachel: And most of us have no idea what we
need to live and we have no idea what we spend.

331
00:23:34,681 --> 00:23:35,611
And it's just like the end of the moment.

332
00:23:35,611 --> 00:23:37,051
This is sort of this finger in the air thing.

333
00:23:37,051 --> 00:23:40,831
And Tommy and Ed from Medics Money,
they are absolutely brilliant on this.

334
00:23:40,831 --> 00:23:46,538
So we've, I've done some podcasts, so then they've, Tommy's
done, some for, for us just about thinking about what's

335
00:23:46,538 --> 00:23:50,123
the value of your time and actually having a budget.

336
00:23:50,123 --> 00:23:55,103
And when you think about it, you actually
do need a lot less often than you spend.

337
00:23:55,133 --> 00:24:04,193
And I, I, my one advice for, for sort of, I guess, younger
doctors is I, I remember a, a younger doctor talking to

338
00:24:04,193 --> 00:24:07,553
me about, um, deciding what school to send her kids to.

339
00:24:07,613 --> 00:24:12,973
And they had some really good options, like
locally, really good state, state school options.

340
00:24:12,973 --> 00:24:16,513
And she thought, well, we might as well 'cause things
we've got into the private, might as well do it.

341
00:24:16,513 --> 00:24:21,403
And I'm like, you've got three kids and your
other half wasn't in a really high paying job.

342
00:24:21,703 --> 00:24:25,873
Think about what you are now tying
yourself into for the next 15 years.

343
00:24:25,873 --> 00:24:31,153
So there are those, there are those things that we, we
can, and there's no judgment around this, no judgment

344
00:24:31,153 --> 00:24:33,763
whatsoever, whatever you choose to spend your money on.

345
00:24:33,763 --> 00:24:36,793
But I always come back to freedom of time in good health.

346
00:24:36,793 --> 00:24:39,103
That is, that is the real wealth.

347
00:24:39,126 --> 00:24:40,491
Hussein: Yeah, I think that's so important.

348
00:24:40,521 --> 00:24:43,311
'Cause like every decision in
this, there's no right or wrong.

349
00:24:43,311 --> 00:24:48,351
You know, everyone will have different set of circumstances
will mean that a different decision is right for them.

350
00:24:48,351 --> 00:24:52,821
But what they need to also think about
is not just the outcome of spending that

351
00:24:52,821 --> 00:24:54,801
money, but what's the outcome of not.

352
00:24:55,101 --> 00:24:56,601
What are the benefits for potential?

353
00:24:56,601 --> 00:25:02,601
For example, let's just use that example of that family of
having more time to spend with each other and the growth

354
00:25:02,601 --> 00:25:08,871
and the development that that will have on the child,
compared to the child goes to a great school, fantastic.

355
00:25:08,871 --> 00:25:11,691
But do they see their parents or are
their parents constantly working?

356
00:25:11,691 --> 00:25:13,911
And when they see their parents, are their parents stressed?

357
00:25:14,211 --> 00:25:17,151
Are they able to give them the time and, and the energy?

358
00:25:17,451 --> 00:25:19,281
So all these kind of things, it's so important.

359
00:25:19,551 --> 00:25:24,381
I remember when I looked at my own finances
and I was making cutbacks, I couldn't believe

360
00:25:24,381 --> 00:25:28,221
the stuff that I was paying for, something I
didn't even realize I was still paying for it.

361
00:25:28,521 --> 00:25:33,321
And it wasn't until I just brought an Excel sheet, it was
like, okay, what are the things that I have to pay for

362
00:25:33,471 --> 00:25:36,741
unless someone's coming to the door to, to sort myself out?

363
00:25:36,741 --> 00:25:43,311
And, and I actually found out that a good chunk of what I
was spending were things that I no longer was really using.

364
00:25:43,311 --> 00:25:46,101
And if I was using, I wasn't really getting much from it.

365
00:25:46,401 --> 00:25:51,861
And it's, it's now that whenever I look to spend
again, I always go back to this Excel sheet and

366
00:25:51,861 --> 00:25:54,081
just go, okay, look, what am I gonna get out of it?

367
00:25:54,381 --> 00:26:00,861
What do, how do I maximize, if I do spend my money on
it, how do I really maximize the outcome from that?

368
00:26:01,131 --> 00:26:06,021
And it's about having that thought process always
going through, because I know that it's not just

369
00:26:06,021 --> 00:26:12,021
about spending money, but it's the impact that
that does on the time and space in your life.

370
00:26:12,021 --> 00:26:16,821
That is also a commodity that you should
measure rather than just the bank account.

371
00:26:16,971 --> 00:26:21,111
Rachel: The problem is, and I'm gonna challenge
you back here, is that it sounds like you

372
00:26:21,111 --> 00:26:23,631
had this wake up call in your late twenties.

373
00:26:23,901 --> 00:26:28,641
And while obviously nobody would, would, would wish
health problems on anybody, you say it actually was

374
00:26:28,641 --> 00:26:31,161
good for you in terms of it made you change your life.

375
00:26:31,461 --> 00:26:33,681
What advice would you give to people like me?

376
00:26:33,681 --> 00:26:35,751
I'm about to turn 50 next year.

377
00:26:35,751 --> 00:26:37,521
I can't quite believe that's happening.

378
00:26:37,571 --> 00:26:37,951
Hussein: can I.

379
00:26:38,618 --> 00:26:38,948
Rachel: I know.

380
00:26:38,948 --> 00:26:39,848
I'm so young looking.

381
00:26:40,267 --> 00:26:40,567
Okay.

382
00:26:40,567 --> 00:26:47,007
But I've got, you know, three kids and my kids are at, you
know, school, university, you know, we've got mortgage.

383
00:26:47,307 --> 00:26:52,107
Um, lots of people my age are in
partnerships, maybe leading partnerships.

384
00:26:52,287 --> 00:26:54,837
PCN directors, clinical directors in hospitals.

385
00:26:55,137 --> 00:26:57,417
So, a lot of financial responsibilities.

386
00:26:57,417 --> 00:27:02,257
But even if they got their finances totally sorted
out, which I believe that people, that people can do

387
00:27:02,257 --> 00:27:06,607
that with a bit of, a bit of, you know, let's just cut
out that skiing holiday, let's not do this, you know.

388
00:27:06,907 --> 00:27:08,167
You can make it work.

389
00:27:08,467 --> 00:27:13,537
So if you've got that sorted out, there are other
things stopping you, like the responsibility you

390
00:27:13,537 --> 00:27:18,952
feel to your, to your practice, to your colleagues
and just feeling that you, you've got to do it all.

391
00:27:19,027 --> 00:27:22,777
And I guess when you did your change, you were just
coming up through that and yet made a decision not

392
00:27:22,777 --> 00:27:29,017
to, not to be the partner, but what can people do
who are in that position and who thinks, well, I

393
00:27:29,017 --> 00:27:32,947
would love to do any of that, I'd love to have that
mindset, but I just can't 'cause I've got so many

394
00:27:32,947 --> 00:27:36,127
responsibilities to employing all these people, perhaps?

395
00:27:36,649 --> 00:27:42,469
Hussein: I think first message is that, you know, it
doesn't matter what point or what stage you are, I think

396
00:27:42,619 --> 00:27:49,579
focusing and, and refocusing potentially on, on not
just your health, but the health of those around you.

397
00:27:49,879 --> 00:27:53,059
It's something you should do at, at, at any age, regardless.

398
00:27:53,089 --> 00:27:58,309
'Cause there are, it's not just the long-term benefits
here, there, there are short-term benefits and kind of

399
00:27:58,309 --> 00:28:01,849
relief that you can get by just reducing that burden.

400
00:28:01,849 --> 00:28:08,749
Now, the ability for, from person to person
of how much weight you can essentially shed.

401
00:28:08,779 --> 00:28:13,069
I'm not talking about weight on the weighing
scales, I'm talking about weight of responsibility.

402
00:28:13,369 --> 00:28:17,989
That varies and I think we have to be totally
open and honest with ourselves that for some

403
00:28:17,989 --> 00:28:23,239
of us it can be really challenging to, to, to
shed significant bits of responsibility and,

404
00:28:23,239 --> 00:28:25,099
and for others, maybe potentially a bit easier.

405
00:28:25,099 --> 00:28:25,909
I think I was lucky.

406
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:30,049
I think I was, because I was, I was, I
was far younger and I had other options.

407
00:28:30,104 --> 00:28:33,529
It was easier to shed that, but still
felt very difficult at the time.

408
00:28:33,829 --> 00:28:39,649
Now if you do feel like you're in that camp where those
kind of key responsibilities are very difficult to share

409
00:28:39,649 --> 00:28:45,649
and maybe you don't want to, maybe you want to, uh,
stay in, in those kind of high pressure, high stress

410
00:28:45,949 --> 00:28:49,339
roles, then really consider even the small things.

411
00:28:49,689 --> 00:28:58,209
Because it can be even tiny little decisions if stacked
up upon each other over time, that can make a difference.

412
00:28:58,509 --> 00:29:01,659
And for many of us, it's about
trying to go below a threshold point.

413
00:29:01,689 --> 00:29:07,269
You know, for me, I know that there's a certain
threshold that when I go over things start to present

414
00:29:07,269 --> 00:29:12,489
themselves when maybe I'm a bit more irritable,
maybe I'm, uh, less compassionate, et cetera.

415
00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:14,579
And so it's about being aware of that fresher point.

416
00:29:14,579 --> 00:29:20,649
So it may be for you that you just need to make lots of
little decisions that may seem insignificant, but they help.

417
00:29:20,649 --> 00:29:26,729
And if I could just use an example, I had a friend
of mine who has two kids in fact, but one of them's

418
00:29:26,729 --> 00:29:30,459
four, and has joined the football club, unlike me.

419
00:29:30,749 --> 00:29:39,702
But, um, he was asked by his, uh, kids' football team if
he would be up for coaching and, and, and, and supporting

420
00:29:39,702 --> 00:29:42,012
them., 'cause he was a pretty decent footballer himself.

421
00:29:42,312 --> 00:29:45,732
And he said yes, and he didn't even think about it.

422
00:29:46,032 --> 00:29:51,582
And he told me later, he goes I'm really annoyed
that I'm, I said yes because I have no time.

423
00:29:51,882 --> 00:29:55,902
You know, like I'm, I'm, I'm working
eight sessions, I'm doing out of hours.

424
00:29:56,262 --> 00:30:00,342
I'm, you know, doing X, Y, Z and, and
I don't have time to do this coaching.

425
00:30:00,342 --> 00:30:03,972
But then, you know, he asked and I wanted
to be helpful and it's my kid's club.

426
00:30:03,972 --> 00:30:05,892
And, and I didn't wanna say no.

427
00:30:06,192 --> 00:30:11,352
And so now he, he's doing something that, don't
get me wrong, he enjoys, he likes coaching and he

428
00:30:11,352 --> 00:30:13,902
loves obviously doing it where his kid does it.

429
00:30:14,202 --> 00:30:16,062
But actually that was the wrong decision for him.

430
00:30:16,362 --> 00:30:22,122
And it was a discussion that I had with him a few
times, and eventually he made the realization that

431
00:30:22,122 --> 00:30:24,943
he had to say no and, and, and give that role back.

432
00:30:24,943 --> 00:30:29,503
And it was the right decision for him because
now he's got that space and that bit of time

433
00:30:29,503 --> 00:30:31,603
and, and that just put him over the edge.

434
00:30:31,873 --> 00:30:33,193
So it's little things like that.

435
00:30:33,193 --> 00:30:38,893
And, and it may be that it's about taking decisions going
forward rather than cutting things that you've currently

436
00:30:38,893 --> 00:30:40,873
got, if you're finding that really difficult to do.

437
00:30:41,173 --> 00:30:47,413
But where possible, even good decisions, even decisions
that seem like it's the thing you wanna do, just

438
00:30:47,413 --> 00:30:53,353
stop for a second and think, how is this going to
interact with everything else that I've got going on?

439
00:30:53,653 --> 00:30:57,973
Will this enable me to get my goals and my outcomes?

440
00:30:57,973 --> 00:31:03,223
Because I think we often don't make those
priority decisions at the right time, and we're

441
00:31:03,223 --> 00:31:06,163
just thinking about that specific decision.

442
00:31:06,463 --> 00:31:08,263
And at the time it seemed like the right thing.

443
00:31:08,263 --> 00:31:11,113
He loves football, he loves his kid, he loves coaching.

444
00:31:11,413 --> 00:31:13,243
So it seemed like this is a no brainer.

445
00:31:13,543 --> 00:31:19,153
But when you then put it in the context
of his life, it was the worst decision.

446
00:31:19,183 --> 00:31:23,473
Rachel: That's a really interesting example
because it's something he really wanted to do.

447
00:31:23,473 --> 00:31:29,593
And I think, you know, when, when we talk about saying
no to stuff and, and, and leaving decisions, I'm often

448
00:31:29,593 --> 00:31:31,813
talking about the guilt and the shame of saying no to stuff.

449
00:31:31,813 --> 00:31:33,373
But often that's stuff you don't wanna do.

450
00:31:33,557 --> 00:31:38,072
it, it, it is much, much harder saying no
to the stuff that you do want to do, or,

451
00:31:38,117 --> 00:31:41,117
or you do, you do partially want to do.

452
00:31:41,417 --> 00:31:46,817
Uh, and I think one of the problems that a lot of
us have is that we're generally pretty competent.

453
00:31:46,847 --> 00:31:49,517
I think medics, people work in
healthcare are pretty good at everything.

454
00:31:49,517 --> 00:31:52,157
And, and there are skills that you, you have built up.

455
00:31:52,157 --> 00:31:54,467
So you're quite good at doing this,
you're quite good at doing that.

456
00:31:54,467 --> 00:32:01,127
And that, that quite good or that even pretty good is
really dangerous because that, that zone of excellence

457
00:32:01,127 --> 00:32:06,287
just detracts from your zone of absolute genius,
'cause you'll just end up doing it and end up doing it.

458
00:32:06,287 --> 00:32:10,997
And the problem is as you go further on and you reach
the, my age, you've picked up this role and then that role

459
00:32:10,997 --> 00:32:13,007
and then this role and you're pretty good at doing it.

460
00:32:13,007 --> 00:32:15,257
And then it becomes really, really hard to say no.

461
00:32:15,257 --> 00:32:19,757
So I love that thing about, about going forwards, you
know, think about what you're saying yes to going forward.

462
00:32:20,057 --> 00:32:25,577
In the back of my mind though, I'm thinking,
what a shame that your friend had to say no to

463
00:32:25,577 --> 00:32:30,317
something that potentially was probably more
life affirming than doing an out of hours shift.

464
00:32:30,890 --> 00:32:36,110
And wouldn't that been nice if he'd had the, the head
space and the time in his week to be able to do that?

465
00:32:36,110 --> 00:32:41,975
Because like, I think doctors should be able to, to
coach a football team, they should be able to, you

466
00:32:41,975 --> 00:32:46,100
know, I mean, don't coach 10 football teams, be a
member of the local choir, orchestra and run this

467
00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:48,290
charity as well as being a full-time partner, no.

468
00:32:48,590 --> 00:32:52,280
But you know, we should be able to
have a life and do stuff like that.

469
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:58,010
So, sounds like his life was just at capacity with
work, and we actually want to be working a little

470
00:32:58,010 --> 00:33:03,080
bit below capacity, so we've got the time and space
is, is that something you'd be advising people to do?

471
00:33:03,380 --> 00:33:04,310
Hussein: Precisely.

472
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:06,380
And, and that's what we talked about, in fact.

473
00:33:06,380 --> 00:33:11,510
We said that, look, this was the right decision at the
wrong time, and why it's so important that if you're

474
00:33:11,510 --> 00:33:14,565
going to add something, you make sure there's space.

475
00:33:14,865 --> 00:33:21,465
And so hopefully this is gonna trigger him to
consider what can he reduce within his capacity

476
00:33:21,465 --> 00:33:23,535
at the moment to take on things like that.

477
00:33:23,535 --> 00:33:28,688
So therefore, when the next opportunity arises for
something that he's passionate about, that as you say

478
00:33:28,688 --> 00:33:32,258
is, is is life affirming, that he's able to pop it on.

479
00:33:32,258 --> 00:33:36,698
'Cause at the moment, too often I see people
just adding, they'll just add this on, they'll

480
00:33:36,698 --> 00:33:42,638
make it work, they'll make it work, you know,
we'll find the time, but you don't find time.

481
00:33:42,638 --> 00:33:44,318
You know, like time is just there.

482
00:33:44,618 --> 00:33:50,078
And so it's really important that when you
are thinking about taking on something new,

483
00:33:50,378 --> 00:33:53,348
consider what, where is it gonna replace?

484
00:33:53,378 --> 00:33:55,868
Rather than constantly adding it in.

485
00:33:56,168 --> 00:34:00,548
And so it can be really useful to constantly reflect.

486
00:34:00,848 --> 00:34:03,428
And often I do it like on a six monthly basis.

487
00:34:03,428 --> 00:34:08,168
Every six months I'll just take a moment and
I'll look at my kind of calendar and I'll think,

488
00:34:08,468 --> 00:34:11,258
where am I currently spending all my time?

489
00:34:11,528 --> 00:34:12,968
Is it where I want it to be?

490
00:34:12,968 --> 00:34:14,558
Are there things that I can cut back?

491
00:34:14,558 --> 00:34:16,898
And I'm always looking at things where I can cut it back.

492
00:34:16,898 --> 00:34:22,148
Because I know that if I create that bit of
capacity, it enables me that when I get that

493
00:34:22,178 --> 00:34:28,898
email, that message, or someone gives me a ring
with an opportunity that is fantastic, I've got

494
00:34:28,898 --> 00:34:31,418
the space to go, okay, yeah, let's give that a go.

495
00:34:31,418 --> 00:34:37,958
But if you don't constantly consider and
refine and tidy up your time, then it will

496
00:34:37,958 --> 00:34:40,388
always just be added on, added on, added on.

497
00:34:40,388 --> 00:34:43,238
And before you know it, it'll be bursting from the seams.

498
00:34:43,568 --> 00:34:49,598
And then you won't be able to do the things that you really
want to do, spend time with your kid teaching the local club

499
00:34:49,658 --> 00:34:55,688
football instead, as you say, you're doing an out of hour
shift, which you know, I doubt most people would rather do.

500
00:34:56,060 --> 00:35:01,102
Rachel: Getting sort of back to practical and reality
of people that probably do have too many roles and

501
00:35:01,102 --> 00:35:07,252
they probably can't change it overnight, and as a
lifestyle medicine guru yourself, I wanna ask you,

502
00:35:07,252 --> 00:35:12,742
right, if, if I'm that overwhelmed doctor working
all hours, and yes, I'm gonna start to say no to

503
00:35:12,742 --> 00:35:15,322
stuff, I'm gonna do a bit of a, a tidy up of my time.

504
00:35:15,322 --> 00:35:19,762
I'm gonna start looking at where I'm spending my
time, but what's the low hanging fruit in terms of

505
00:35:20,062 --> 00:35:25,162
making myself feel better and practicing some, well, I
don't call it self-care anymore, I call it necessary.

506
00:35:25,462 --> 00:35:26,482
Necessary care.

507
00:35:26,782 --> 00:35:28,132
What would you start with?

508
00:35:28,132 --> 00:35:33,112
When I'm thinking about I need to focus on
oiling oiling my bike, making my bike a high

509
00:35:33,112 --> 00:35:35,422
performance bike, where would you start then?

510
00:35:35,650 --> 00:35:40,630
Hussein: I'm gonna stick to cycling on this one
because the best cycling teams in the world, they

511
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:48,610
use a philosophy called marginal gains, which is
the fact that even small, absolutely tiny changes

512
00:35:48,910 --> 00:35:52,000
when stacked up over time, make a big difference.

513
00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:59,020
And when I think about my initial journey, one of
the key reasons why I had failed in the past to make

514
00:35:59,020 --> 00:36:08,470
changes was I'd always try to make big sweeping moves,
which invariably never got me very far for very long.

515
00:36:08,770 --> 00:36:14,530
And in fact, when I just changed my mindset to
going, okay, let me make some tiny changes, little

516
00:36:14,530 --> 00:36:19,000
things that on their own they're gonna do nothing,
really, nothing on the grand scale of things.

517
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:25,420
But when you combine them and, and, and you, you
allow yourself to increase with confidence as

518
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:27,670
you move from goal to goal, they get you far.

519
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:34,930
And I remember one of the first things I did was I
gave myself 15 minutes more time to sleep, 15 minutes.

520
00:36:35,230 --> 00:36:40,960
And it sounds crazy, but what was happening was something
that's called rev revenge, revenge procrastinating.

521
00:36:41,261 --> 00:36:42,765
Rachel: bedtime, revenge, procrastination.

522
00:36:42,970 --> 00:36:44,590
Hussein: Oh man, I was the best at it.

523
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,000
I was absolutely the best at it.

524
00:36:46,030 --> 00:36:52,480
'cause I was just constantly working, constantly stressing,
constantly doing stuff that when it came to it, even when I

525
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,760
could have gone to bed, I was just like, do you know what?

526
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,140
I've had no time to myself.

527
00:36:56,260 --> 00:37:00,640
And I'm now just going to not do actually
something that's gonna be useful and feed me.

528
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,960
It was generally just scrolling through
Instagram or watching something on Netflix

529
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,810
or whatever and I just decided that okay.

530
00:37:08,110 --> 00:37:11,500
I'm gonna give myself 15 minutes more
sleep, and that's where I started.

531
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,300
And I can tell you that just getting better
sleep enables you to do that a little bit better

532
00:37:16,300 --> 00:37:21,220
the next day, make little bit better decisions
and feel a little bit more like you're coping.

533
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:28,150
And then I moved from 15 minutes of extra sleep and
I said, okay, now I want to spend 10 minutes in my

534
00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:31,630
day doing something I actually really want to do.

535
00:37:31,930 --> 00:37:35,890
And so in fact, those 10 minutes
was spending time in my garden.

536
00:37:36,170 --> 00:37:43,700
And at that time reflecting on how terrible it was because
I didn't have any time to look after it or prune it.

537
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,230
So then what ended up happening was those 10 minutes was,
okay, I'm gonna spend five minutes just sitting in the

538
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:51,200
garden and five minutes doing something in the garden.

539
00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:54,950
No matter how small it was, 'cause
hell, it took more than five minutes.

540
00:37:54,950 --> 00:37:57,920
It would probably take days to
sort out that garden at that time.

541
00:37:58,220 --> 00:38:02,210
But just five minutes, I just felt like I
could just fix that little bit that's there.

542
00:38:02,510 --> 00:38:06,200
Let me just weed it out, and then I felt like
I was accomplishing something in that day.

543
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:11,600
So at least I've tidied up maybe a half
square meter of the vegetable patch.

544
00:38:11,900 --> 00:38:14,480
And so it just, it just, it just snowballed from there.

545
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,010
And then I'll just move on to something else.

546
00:38:16,010 --> 00:38:21,080
And I kept stacking on little things and I kept a
little Excel sheet of all the things because, you

547
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,790
know, we're doctors, we like to tick things off.

548
00:38:22,810 --> 00:38:24,705
Rachel: I would love to see your Excel sheet.

549
00:38:25,005 --> 00:38:25,605
Hussein: Oh, it is amazing.

550
00:38:25,905 --> 00:38:31,605
And red had various shades of orange as sort of, I
felt increased confidence, uh, to eventually green.

551
00:38:31,905 --> 00:38:34,365
And, and I, I just kept stacking them up.

552
00:38:34,365 --> 00:38:39,675
And then when you look back at it, now,
what, 10, 12 years later, like those little

553
00:38:39,675 --> 00:38:41,445
things have made a massive difference.

554
00:38:41,445 --> 00:38:46,395
And in fact, there came a point where I
had enough small little changes and I got

555
00:38:46,485 --> 00:38:48,645
more confidence to make bigger changes.

556
00:38:48,945 --> 00:38:49,605
And I said, do you know what?

557
00:38:49,605 --> 00:38:54,825
I've, I've created and carved out a bit more
energy, a bit more motivation, a bit more time.

558
00:38:55,125 --> 00:38:56,415
I can now take this on.

559
00:38:56,715 --> 00:38:59,925
And then it just slowly, slowly, eventually snowballed.

560
00:39:00,225 --> 00:39:06,825
And it's can seem a bit demoralizing to take on such
small things to start off with that on their own, that

561
00:39:06,825 --> 00:39:09,725
15 minutes, it didn't do that much, but it was the start.

562
00:39:10,025 --> 00:39:14,165
And I think that's what's really important
is that you make those little changes, not

563
00:39:14,165 --> 00:39:16,415
thinking that they're gonna sort out the world.

564
00:39:16,615 --> 00:39:24,332
But thinking that what will 50 little changes do in six
months time if I take on a new thing every, let's say

565
00:39:24,332 --> 00:39:27,542
week or whatever time you wanna have interval between it?

566
00:39:27,572 --> 00:39:31,712
'Cause I promise you, you put them together
by God, it makes a massive difference.

567
00:39:31,862 --> 00:39:33,902
Rachel: and you start getting the rewards quite soon.

568
00:39:33,902 --> 00:39:40,562
I remember coaching a, a GP who, um, was yeah, his
senior partner had had no time in the day whatsoever.

569
00:39:40,562 --> 00:39:44,762
And, um, I think at the, the end of one of the coaching
sessions, he'd come to the conclusion that he was

570
00:39:44,762 --> 00:39:48,992
so stressed in the afternoon and staying so late
and not get anything done, he just said he needed

571
00:39:48,992 --> 00:39:51,752
to get out in a, a lunchtime into the local park.

572
00:39:51,752 --> 00:39:52,142
So we left.

573
00:39:52,202 --> 00:39:53,642
He was gonna go for a walk at lunchtime.

574
00:39:53,647 --> 00:40:00,602
And, and so six months later I got an email from him
saying that every day he goes to the park for 45 minutes,

575
00:40:00,662 --> 00:40:07,982
started off 10 minutes, 45 minutes, eats his lunch under
a tree, and he was in the afternoon, getting home sooner,

576
00:40:08,102 --> 00:40:10,472
getting more done, and the practice income had gone up.

577
00:40:10,992 --> 00:40:11,442
Amazing.

578
00:40:11,442 --> 00:40:13,872
So you, you think, oh, I haven't got time to do that.

579
00:40:14,172 --> 00:40:15,342
Actually you get that time back.

580
00:40:15,342 --> 00:40:19,452
It's almost like you haven't got time not to do
it and I can imagine, yeah, the benefits of the

581
00:40:19,452 --> 00:40:24,552
tiny benefits from a tiny amount extra of sleep
actually that probably, that probably balanced.

582
00:40:24,552 --> 00:40:25,812
That's like exercise, isn't it?

583
00:40:25,812 --> 00:40:31,062
We know that the productivity you gain
from doing that exercise is, is huge.

584
00:40:31,392 --> 00:40:37,032
I mean, would you be looking to go across
all of the, well, five ways away, wellbeing?

585
00:40:37,032 --> 00:40:43,332
I think there's eight ways to wellbeing, but uh, you
know, or do you, would you like try and maximize movement

586
00:40:43,332 --> 00:40:46,062
or maximize ice or what would you be focusing on?

587
00:40:46,175 --> 00:40:51,905
Hussein: I would encourage the person just
to consider what they want to do most.

588
00:40:52,235 --> 00:40:59,315
Whether it be they want a bit more sleep and energy,
whether it be that they wanna try and focus on their diet,

589
00:40:59,375 --> 00:41:02,795
let their motivation be the trigger to that first goal.

590
00:41:03,095 --> 00:41:06,395
It's so important that we consider
all the pillars, absolutely.

591
00:41:06,725 --> 00:41:10,895
But when it comes to those first small goals,
just go bare bare where you wanted to go.

592
00:41:10,895 --> 00:41:16,715
For me, I just wanted to wake up in the morning and
not feel like I'd been run over by a bus every day.

593
00:41:17,015 --> 00:41:20,135
And so for me, I wanted to start
off with that bit more sleep.

594
00:41:20,435 --> 00:41:26,015
And then, you know, my next goal, I wanted to just
sometimes feel like my head wasn't constantly going

595
00:41:26,015 --> 00:41:32,375
to explode with thinking and decisions, so that's
where the 10 minutes of doing nothing came from.

596
00:41:32,685 --> 00:41:38,025
And so just be guided based on what do
you want to try to work on right now?

597
00:41:38,325 --> 00:41:39,495
Create a goal based on that.

598
00:41:39,495 --> 00:41:43,395
And then as time goes on, consider
where else you need to move into.

599
00:41:43,395 --> 00:41:46,365
And so I actually got to my nutrition and diet.

600
00:41:46,665 --> 00:41:49,215
Quite late, even though it was probably the biggest problem.

601
00:41:49,455 --> 00:41:56,385
I, you know, my diet was hideous and it was probably, if you
were looking at it from an root cause analysis, you'd say

602
00:41:56,505 --> 00:41:59,415
that's where you need to put in most of your effort or work.

603
00:41:59,415 --> 00:42:06,225
But I actually got to it much later on because I knew
that I had such a, like a emotive connection with food

604
00:42:06,375 --> 00:42:09,975
and such an unhealthy relationship with it, it needs time.

605
00:42:10,125 --> 00:42:12,195
And I needed to improve my confidence.

606
00:42:12,495 --> 00:42:16,065
I needed to have a bit more energy
and head space through the sleep.

607
00:42:16,065 --> 00:42:20,175
I needed to reduce my stress before
I even think about tackling on it.

608
00:42:20,175 --> 00:42:23,505
Because in the past I would always just focus
on diet and I'd be like, okay, that's it.

609
00:42:23,805 --> 00:42:25,275
Mediterranean diet tomorrow.

610
00:42:25,275 --> 00:42:27,525
Like here we go, you know, no more takeaways.

611
00:42:27,825 --> 00:42:33,195
And I would maintain it for like four weeks and
then it would just go, it would just vanish.

612
00:42:33,495 --> 00:42:36,045
And so I knew that I couldn't just keep doing that.

613
00:42:36,045 --> 00:42:44,155
I had to build the space and the time and strengthen all
lots of other elements in my lifestyle and resilience, so

614
00:42:44,235 --> 00:42:48,105
therefore when I did approach nutrition, I felt stronger.

615
00:42:48,405 --> 00:42:53,685
And again, I was still still making small changes
in nutrition, but I knew that I couldn't make even

616
00:42:53,685 --> 00:42:59,025
small changes in nutrition until I did lots of the
other stuff, lots of the accompanying work around it.

617
00:42:59,295 --> 00:43:04,965
Because I'm telling you now, sleep stress,
they have huge, huge drivers on the

618
00:43:05,025 --> 00:43:07,515
reasons that we eat the food that we eat.

619
00:43:07,575 --> 00:43:12,995
And it was just creating this sort of cycle of guilt for
me, because I would eat something and feel hideous about

620
00:43:12,995 --> 00:43:19,235
myself for doing that and think that I'm useless and,
and why am I not doing what I said I was going to do?

621
00:43:19,535 --> 00:43:22,085
But then you realize that there's other strings at play.

622
00:43:22,385 --> 00:43:28,265
You know, the reason I I, I clicked that takeaway was
because, you know, work was really stressful and I

623
00:43:28,265 --> 00:43:32,165
didn't have much time and, and my sleep was just awful.

624
00:43:32,165 --> 00:43:32,975
I had no energy.

625
00:43:32,975 --> 00:43:34,505
I just wanted something quick and easy.

626
00:43:34,505 --> 00:43:35,765
I didn't have time to prepare.

627
00:43:36,065 --> 00:43:42,655
So really think about what you can do around
a difficult area before you just dive into it.

628
00:43:42,805 --> 00:43:48,085
We often really think about how, let's say if you
want to lose weight, people just focus on, okay,

629
00:43:48,085 --> 00:43:52,195
you know, how am I gonna change my diet, how I'm
gonna increase my activity, et cetera, et cetera.

630
00:43:52,495 --> 00:43:55,165
But they don't think about why am I here?

631
00:43:55,465 --> 00:43:59,995
And I think that's, it's, once I realized
that, look, I gained nearly what, 30 kilos

632
00:44:00,295 --> 00:44:04,225
because, not because of just what I was eating.

633
00:44:04,225 --> 00:44:06,145
Because you have to think about why was I eating that?

634
00:44:06,205 --> 00:44:08,215
You know, why was I not moving my body?

635
00:44:08,245 --> 00:44:10,975
Why was I not getting restorative sleep?

636
00:44:11,275 --> 00:44:18,715
And once I started to focus all my little goals on trying
to correct those underlying drivers, the weight came off.

637
00:44:18,805 --> 00:44:21,565
You know, the weight came off not,
not quickly, it wasn't like six weeks.

638
00:44:21,565 --> 00:44:22,365
And I was better.

639
00:44:22,645 --> 00:44:27,145
Over six years, just consistently, just slowly
lowering the weight to a point where I stopped

640
00:44:27,145 --> 00:44:33,715
weighing myself and instead measured where I was
going based on the, that Excel sheet, the outcomes

641
00:44:33,715 --> 00:44:35,965
that I was trying to create, those little goals.

642
00:44:36,025 --> 00:44:39,805
I just said, look, if I focus on that,
rather than looking at the weighing scales,

643
00:44:40,105 --> 00:44:42,205
that's where I'm gonna get my reward.

644
00:44:42,505 --> 00:44:48,535
Because not everything we need to do in life needs to be
focused on having an external outcome like weight loss.

645
00:44:48,535 --> 00:44:50,485
You know, it could, there's so much more to that.

646
00:44:50,785 --> 00:44:56,785
And so really do consider those kind of surrounding
environment that you are putting your body in.

647
00:44:57,085 --> 00:44:58,765
Rather than just what you can do.

648
00:44:58,765 --> 00:44:59,965
Because we always want to do more.

649
00:44:59,995 --> 00:45:03,385
I'm now going to eat more fruit and
vegetable, I'm now going to exercise more.

650
00:45:03,685 --> 00:45:06,535
And those are great, but they're also difficult.

651
00:45:06,625 --> 00:45:09,235
So think about what could I do less?

652
00:45:09,385 --> 00:45:15,595
What could I potentially have less
of that's going to drive less stress?

653
00:45:15,595 --> 00:45:22,465
And I remember be back 10 years ago, if you left
like an entire, let's say 24 multi-pack of crisps,

654
00:45:22,765 --> 00:45:24,885
I'm telling you now, I would eat all of them.

655
00:45:25,045 --> 00:45:29,815
Now, if I go to, let's say, a function,
there's crisps out, I don't even touch it.

656
00:45:30,115 --> 00:45:33,865
And it's not because I'm saying, look, you can't have
a crisp, oh my God, have one, no, knock yourself out.

657
00:45:34,165 --> 00:45:40,765
But that craving that was so strong before where
I would literally be killing myself trying not

658
00:45:40,915 --> 00:45:47,365
to eat them yet, still doing so, now, like it
when I look at them, there is no emotion anymore.

659
00:45:47,555 --> 00:45:54,095
And that didn't come through sort of a short term
psychological intervention that came through actually

660
00:45:54,095 --> 00:46:02,105
reducing the stress and the pressure, that, that valve
just letting it release to a point now where I'm in

661
00:46:02,285 --> 00:46:06,905
better control, you know, I pick the things that I
want to eat and don't get me wrong, I eat some crap

662
00:46:06,905 --> 00:46:10,145
sometimes, but I do that now in much better control.

663
00:46:10,295 --> 00:46:15,875
I don't do it because I have to have it because
I've been craving for it for days and months.

664
00:46:16,175 --> 00:46:19,745
And so therefore I'm now better able
to make those changes on nutrition.

665
00:46:19,745 --> 00:46:23,975
And I just realized I had to just change
that environment before I make those changes.

666
00:46:24,245 --> 00:46:29,405
Rachel: And what I'm realizing, and I think what
you're talking about a lot with the goals as well, is

667
00:46:29,405 --> 00:46:31,685
it's, it's much more about process goals, isn't it?

668
00:46:31,685 --> 00:46:32,855
Than outcome goals.

669
00:46:32,855 --> 00:46:37,205
So, you know, I signed up for, I think I've done a podcast
or this is, well, I signed up for Cambridge half marathon,

670
00:46:37,205 --> 00:46:39,908
which I hate running, so that wasn't gonna happen.

671
00:46:39,908 --> 00:46:41,978
And, you know, two months before I'm
like, mm, this isn't gonna happen.

672
00:46:41,978 --> 00:46:47,738
Whereas if I'd have set the process goal of three times
a week, I'm gonna go put my trainers on for 10 minutes,

673
00:46:47,768 --> 00:46:52,058
well, that would've, that would've happened that I'd
been more likely to hit the, the outcome goal anyway.

674
00:46:52,058 --> 00:46:55,988
But I think we are quite driven by results
and achievement and success, aren't we?

675
00:46:55,988 --> 00:47:01,388
So we just always make that mistake of going for the outcome
as opposed to the routine and the process and the habit.

676
00:47:01,465 --> 00:47:02,215
Hussein: Precisely.

677
00:47:02,215 --> 00:47:07,165
And my top tip is gamifying that process,
so therefore it feels like a reward.

678
00:47:07,435 --> 00:47:12,085
So for me, changing those colors, I know
it sounds silly, but it was lovely, and I

679
00:47:12,085 --> 00:47:13,795
could see an Excel sheet and I'd look back.

680
00:47:14,005 --> 00:47:17,575
I'd be like, look at all the things
that I've managed to do and maintain.

681
00:47:17,875 --> 00:47:19,345
And that is the reward.

682
00:47:19,345 --> 00:47:20,605
And you are absolutely right.

683
00:47:20,605 --> 00:47:26,695
The, the outcomes, they will come as a
result of hitting those kind of goals.

684
00:47:26,965 --> 00:47:32,395
And so, you know, when I think about where I
started, my first physical activity goal I remember

685
00:47:32,695 --> 00:47:40,075
was just, you know, going for a walk for five
minutes after food in the evening with my wife.

686
00:47:40,235 --> 00:47:44,045
Now, that's now stretched to, we
probably go for about 30 to 40 minutes.

687
00:47:44,045 --> 00:47:45,155
That sort of happened over time.

688
00:47:45,185 --> 00:47:47,435
'Cause initially I thought I had no more than five minutes.

689
00:47:47,705 --> 00:47:52,775
And it's amazing how, you know, your, um, person that
you were coaching, how he's now walking 45 minutes

690
00:47:52,775 --> 00:47:54,725
when initially it was just 10 minutes in the park.

691
00:47:54,995 --> 00:48:00,275
It's amazing how time opens itself up if
you change your direction of priorities.

692
00:48:00,575 --> 00:48:03,815
But, you know, that initial goal, that's where it started.

693
00:48:04,115 --> 00:48:11,375
And if I look now this year I've, I've, I've competed
in two world championships at long distance triathlon.

694
00:48:11,615 --> 00:48:16,085
And that started with five minutes
of walking with my wife after dinner.

695
00:48:16,085 --> 00:48:21,275
Now, if I set the goal of I'm gonna do a marathon,
or I'm gonna do a half marathon, then there would've

696
00:48:21,275 --> 00:48:24,815
been so many things that could have stopped me
from achieving it, because it's really difficult.

697
00:48:24,815 --> 00:48:29,855
It's another thing that I'm adding rather than
thinking about how I can support and remove.

698
00:48:29,855 --> 00:48:33,695
And so don't think always about the reward.

699
00:48:33,695 --> 00:48:34,955
Think about the process.

700
00:48:34,955 --> 00:48:38,555
Think about doing those elements, because I
promise you, the rewards will naturally come.

701
00:48:38,855 --> 00:48:40,895
And they will be amazing when they do come.

702
00:48:41,135 --> 00:48:44,435
And you will always be rewarded
for work that you do in yourself.

703
00:48:44,435 --> 00:48:50,495
And, and sometimes they'll be in areas that you hadn't
even imagined in, in, in subjects that are not even related

704
00:48:50,495 --> 00:48:53,255
to that initial goal that you haven't quite connected.

705
00:48:53,376 --> 00:48:53,956
Rachel: Oh my goodness.

706
00:48:54,236 --> 00:48:59,021
I just think it's so amazing that you've gone from
like this person on that, you know, ultrasound

707
00:48:59,111 --> 00:49:02,981
couch to competing for your country in triathlon.

708
00:49:02,981 --> 00:49:07,631
I mean, that, that's just such an amazing story
and I think it's very useful for people to

709
00:49:07,631 --> 00:49:09,611
know you didn't start off like this, did you?

710
00:49:09,611 --> 00:49:15,251
You've, you've, you've had that journey and you've
obviously got amazing natural capacity for it.

711
00:49:15,251 --> 00:49:16,571
But it is amazing

712
00:49:16,601 --> 00:49:18,941
'Cause I think when you first
start, it just does seem impossible.

713
00:49:18,941 --> 00:49:22,001
And particularly when you are in
overwhelm, it seems really difficult.

714
00:49:22,001 --> 00:49:23,861
And I guess this is the same with patients as well.

715
00:49:23,861 --> 00:49:27,431
They, you know, busy lives, working
two, three jobs, haven't got much money.

716
00:49:27,641 --> 00:49:30,221
And that's the whole thing about
lifestyle medicine, isn't it?

717
00:49:30,281 --> 00:49:34,547
That, we know what a, a big change is for, for people.

718
00:49:34,547 --> 00:49:38,717
But actually I'm thinking, you know, when we are trying
to tell patients about it and we are not doing it

719
00:49:38,717 --> 00:49:41,417
ourselves, that's really, that's really hard, isn't it?

720
00:49:41,447 --> 00:49:47,657
What else do you think is stopping us from,
from doing this necessary care, from making

721
00:49:47,657 --> 00:49:49,697
these changes from, from working on ourselves?

722
00:49:49,697 --> 00:49:51,917
Is there anything else that you've come across with doctors?

723
00:49:51,975 --> 00:49:57,525
Hussein: Yeah, the, there's so many reasons why
it's really difficult to, to do this and, and

724
00:49:57,825 --> 00:50:02,595
one thing that's the case for not just doctors,
but everyone is just the environment we live in.

725
00:50:02,895 --> 00:50:09,825
You know, like whether it be the fact that movement's been
engineered out, that we now need to somehow bring it back

726
00:50:09,825 --> 00:50:13,515
in intentionally, that's, that makes it really challenging.

727
00:50:13,545 --> 00:50:18,405
You know, when we think about some of the healthiest places
on, in the world, they're active, not because they've

728
00:50:18,405 --> 00:50:21,825
gone to a gym or they've signed up for half marathon.

729
00:50:22,155 --> 00:50:26,595
They're active because it's just, you
have to be active to get to the next town.

730
00:50:26,655 --> 00:50:29,595
You have to cycle or walk or to wash your clothes.

731
00:50:29,625 --> 00:50:30,435
It's manual.

732
00:50:30,645 --> 00:50:34,605
And, and don't get me wrong, I'm not
going back to manually washing my clothes.

733
00:50:34,845 --> 00:50:39,795
However, we need to realize that
look, movement's been engineered out.

734
00:50:40,095 --> 00:50:48,705
And before you take on a new task, like a hit session or
you're going spinning or you're gonna go for a run, consider

735
00:50:49,005 --> 00:50:51,675
how can you just engineer movement back into your day?

736
00:50:52,025 --> 00:50:54,605
Maybe it's that walk to work as you described.

737
00:50:54,665 --> 00:50:58,565
Yes, it's 20 minutes extra, but that was 20
minutes that you potentially were gonna need to

738
00:50:58,565 --> 00:51:00,365
do exercising and now you've done two things.

739
00:51:00,665 --> 00:51:02,735
You've got to your destination and walked.

740
00:51:03,035 --> 00:51:08,195
Um, maybe it's around deciding that you are
not gonna take a lift or an elevator again.

741
00:51:08,495 --> 00:51:13,325
And that's a rule that I stick to unless you
are in New York and you've got like 22 flights

742
00:51:13,325 --> 00:51:15,906
of, of stairs to do that, that I'll allow.

743
00:51:16,186 --> 00:51:18,166
And then think about the things that are advertised.

744
00:51:18,166 --> 00:51:23,476
You know, when, when I'm on my phone in the evening
after stressful day of work, what's being pushed to me?

745
00:51:23,716 --> 00:51:25,306
Well, it's, it's takeaways.

746
00:51:25,306 --> 00:51:27,436
It's, you know, fast food.

747
00:51:27,436 --> 00:51:32,156
It's all the things that I crave
but don't really need for my health.

748
00:51:32,156 --> 00:51:37,346
And so all these factors is why we're living in,
you know, what's called an obesogenic environment.

749
00:51:37,646 --> 00:51:44,066
And we have to be compassionate to ourselves
that we are essentially living in a casino.

750
00:51:44,196 --> 00:51:49,476
We're living in a world which wants us to make
decisions that are not gonna be helpful for our

751
00:51:49,806 --> 00:51:52,656
long-term health, or even our short-term feeling.

752
00:51:52,956 --> 00:51:56,466
And they're trying to offer us a reward that unfortunately.

753
00:51:56,796 --> 00:51:58,926
Is, is, is lined with a lot of baggage.

754
00:51:59,196 --> 00:52:01,926
And so I think we have to be compassionate to that.

755
00:52:01,926 --> 00:52:07,356
And, and when you look at physical activity levels,
when we look at weight levels, we look at nutrition

756
00:52:07,416 --> 00:52:13,896
over the decades, you can see that there's been
a huge change in what we eat and how we move.

757
00:52:14,076 --> 00:52:17,286
And that's not be because we've
suddenly become lazy and greedy.

758
00:52:17,586 --> 00:52:20,946
Um, we're still the same people, we're
just living in a different environment.

759
00:52:20,976 --> 00:52:27,546
And that is the hardest thing to crack because
there's no point creating a preventative medicine, um,

760
00:52:27,576 --> 00:52:30,456
revolution that Labour wants to do, which is fantastic.

761
00:52:30,756 --> 00:52:37,596
Not until you've corrected the environment, there's no
point doing that unless you look to fix the root causes.

762
00:52:37,896 --> 00:52:46,836
And so what I always tell to patients and to colleagues
is be compassionate to that reality that you are not

763
00:52:46,836 --> 00:52:50,256
making bad decisions for the sake of making bad decisions.

764
00:52:50,256 --> 00:52:55,086
You're making it because they are being
advertised to you, encouraged to you, you adding

765
00:52:55,086 --> 00:52:57,456
in stress, then you've got a terrible cocktail.

766
00:52:57,606 --> 00:53:03,001
Rachel: And whatever barriers there are that will just
just stop you very, very quickly when you, you know,

767
00:53:03,271 --> 00:53:09,311
our local hospital, there was only a Burger King for
years and years, and now there is an M&S Food so you can

768
00:53:09,311 --> 00:53:12,101
get your salad, but it's like hungry doctors on call.

769
00:53:12,401 --> 00:53:13,301
What are they gonna get?

770
00:53:13,301 --> 00:53:16,571
You know, they're not, if they're, if
that's all there is, you know, you, you're

771
00:53:16,586 --> 00:53:18,901
Hussein: Precisely and just, and,
and, and, and that's the issue.

772
00:53:18,921 --> 00:53:24,172
And you think about then our people in population
that are in our lowest socioeconomic groups,

773
00:53:24,172 --> 00:53:26,572
and you think, what do they have on offer?

774
00:53:26,872 --> 00:53:29,872
Because you know, they can't afford M&S Food for that salad.

775
00:53:30,097 --> 00:53:37,477
And what alternative options do they have to really access
that kind of high nutritious food that's affordable?

776
00:53:37,747 --> 00:53:43,387
And I remember, um, so Michael Marmot, uh,
had one of his research projects which sort of

777
00:53:43,387 --> 00:53:50,677
outlined the amount that you'd need to spend of
your income in order to live a healthy lifestyle.

778
00:53:50,737 --> 00:53:57,367
And for the bottom 20% from an income
category, it was nearly 70% of all the

779
00:53:57,367 --> 00:53:59,617
earnings would need to be spent on that.

780
00:53:59,617 --> 00:54:05,947
And you just think this is not an environment, you
should not have to be wealthy and affluent to be healthy.

781
00:54:05,997 --> 00:54:11,867
And I, I feel really passionately that as
clinicians, we should be advocates for them.

782
00:54:12,097 --> 00:54:17,287
And we have a role, don't get me wrong, like whether
it be speaking to your counselor, speaking to your MP,

783
00:54:17,557 --> 00:54:22,267
promoting that because we're not just there to serve
appointments, we're there for the health of our communities.

784
00:54:22,597 --> 00:54:27,547
And we need to start really raising our voice
and our message that we gotta do better.

785
00:54:27,847 --> 00:54:32,797
We gotta do better for everyone in our society because
it's actually a failing to need an appointment.

786
00:54:33,007 --> 00:54:37,657
Don't get me wrong, we always need appointments, but every
extra appointment that we need to put on, that's a failing.

787
00:54:37,957 --> 00:54:42,727
And so we need to consider, rather than just constantly
going, reduce wait times, increase appointment

788
00:54:42,727 --> 00:54:49,897
numbers, we need to think about how can we actually
help our health, our health from the root causes.

789
00:54:50,002 --> 00:54:54,202
Rachel: And, and it strikes me as well, you know,
there is something about leadership as well, because

790
00:54:54,352 --> 00:54:59,782
doctors, yes, they have, they have money to spend
on stuff or, or more money maybe than other people.

791
00:55:00,082 --> 00:55:00,952
They don't have the time.

792
00:55:01,252 --> 00:55:03,232
And we do have the time.

793
00:55:03,352 --> 00:55:05,782
It's just we make time for what, for what matters.

794
00:55:06,210 --> 00:55:11,250
You've given me some practical
tips, um, before the, the session.

795
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,130
Can you just talk about those three
before, just before we wrap up?

796
00:55:14,130 --> 00:55:20,010
'Cause I'm quite interested in, in your top three
tips for, you know, making some of these changes.

797
00:55:20,114 --> 00:55:24,944
Hussein: my first tip would be
to speak to those closest to you.

798
00:55:25,244 --> 00:55:31,634
'Cause often they will pick up on signs and
on changes that you may have not understood.

799
00:55:31,634 --> 00:55:37,764
And they may also help to identify where you want
to focus your initial goals, because you want them

800
00:55:37,764 --> 00:55:40,194
to be as meaningful, as impactful, as possible.

801
00:55:40,494 --> 00:55:47,035
Um, my wife was really helpful in actually, you know,
informing me things that I just didn't fully appreciate

802
00:55:47,275 --> 00:55:49,825
and I didn't realize I was doing or not doing.

803
00:55:50,125 --> 00:55:55,525
And so my first tip is speak to those that you
trust that are close to you and find out, you

804
00:55:55,525 --> 00:55:57,685
know from them, you know, what's their opinion.

805
00:55:57,805 --> 00:56:01,105
You may not, you may not follow it, you may
not agree with it, but you definitely not

806
00:56:01,135 --> 00:56:03,235
gonna lose out in getting that perspective.

807
00:56:03,535 --> 00:56:09,295
My second tip is, I, I, I highlighted a bit
before, but is gamifying things, you know, like

808
00:56:09,565 --> 00:56:13,525
gamifying anything just makes it more engaging.

809
00:56:13,525 --> 00:56:18,535
If we think about what has been the most impactful
tool to increase physical activity in the world.

810
00:56:18,835 --> 00:56:19,975
It's been Pokemon Go.

811
00:56:20,435 --> 00:56:25,295
There's a really interesting study that was published
and it just demonstrated, if you look at the US

812
00:56:25,295 --> 00:56:31,175
population and what they did in that study, there has
been no campaign, there has been no intervention, no

813
00:56:31,175 --> 00:56:36,635
matter how well funded, that has been more impactful
than Pokemon Go at increasing physical activity levels.

814
00:56:36,935 --> 00:56:39,305
It just shows you the power that gamification has.

815
00:56:39,305 --> 00:56:44,555
You know, it increased, I think it was
somewhere between two to 3000 steps a day

816
00:56:44,555 --> 00:56:46,565
compared to what the user was doing before.

817
00:56:46,915 --> 00:56:47,905
That is huge.

818
00:56:48,145 --> 00:56:53,395
And so gamifying things, whether it be your goals in that
Excel sheet with the different colors or whether you are

819
00:56:53,395 --> 00:56:59,755
gonna build in certain rewards based on achieving certain
of those goals or whatever that may be, there's lots of apps

820
00:56:59,755 --> 00:57:03,625
out there that can help you to gamify movement or nutrition.

821
00:57:03,925 --> 00:57:05,185
Just do that.

822
00:57:05,185 --> 00:57:06,715
Don't consider it being silly.

823
00:57:06,865 --> 00:57:11,785
Actually, you'll, you'll get engaged with it and you'll
find it funny and you'll find it much more rewarding.

824
00:57:12,085 --> 00:57:19,515
And then the third and final tip is accept that you are
going to fail at a number of the goals that you set.

825
00:57:19,815 --> 00:57:21,585
My Excel sheet is not full of green.

826
00:57:21,915 --> 00:57:30,165
There are a number of, of dead goals on there that I've
tried over and over again to do, and I still can't do them.

827
00:57:30,465 --> 00:57:32,295
And you just have to accept that.

828
00:57:32,355 --> 00:57:37,335
There are some things that we will be able to
do, some things that we'll partially manage

829
00:57:37,635 --> 00:57:39,315
and some things that we'll be successful in.

830
00:57:39,615 --> 00:57:40,905
And that's, that's just life.

831
00:57:41,205 --> 00:57:43,155
And it doesn't mean that you're just gonna leave it.

832
00:57:43,245 --> 00:57:45,585
You may return like I have and try it again.

833
00:57:45,765 --> 00:57:47,805
And some of the things that I've returned to, I've managed.

834
00:57:48,105 --> 00:57:52,425
Some I've still not managed to do, but it's
appreciating that it's not a straight line.

835
00:57:52,455 --> 00:57:56,925
It's this sort of constant spiral and
fall down and spiral and fall down.

836
00:57:57,225 --> 00:58:00,225
And eventually you will get forward progress over time.

837
00:58:00,525 --> 00:58:05,265
And what it can often do is when you fail
at things, it can help you maybe reshape

838
00:58:05,415 --> 00:58:09,015
your future goals to be more achievable.

839
00:58:09,315 --> 00:58:11,535
But don't be hard on yourself.

840
00:58:11,585 --> 00:58:18,715
And even actually now when I think about my, um, sporting
career, it's the races that I have failed at that,

841
00:58:19,255 --> 00:58:22,495
that have truly enabled me to progress and to grow.

842
00:58:22,795 --> 00:58:26,305
And in fact, the races, which I've absolutely
nailed, when I think about what have I

843
00:58:26,305 --> 00:58:28,585
learned from them, not really that much.

844
00:58:28,805 --> 00:58:30,935
So, you know, those failures, cherish them.

845
00:58:31,085 --> 00:58:34,685
Don't think of them negatively and use them positively.

846
00:58:34,794 --> 00:58:36,324
Rachel: Oh, such, such brilliant tips.

847
00:58:36,324 --> 00:58:36,864
Thank you.

848
00:58:37,014 --> 00:58:40,074
The one thing that's made the
difference to me is actually planning.

849
00:58:40,374 --> 00:58:44,904
So, you know, actually sitting down at the beginning of
the week and going, right, when am I gonna do my self-care?

850
00:58:44,904 --> 00:58:46,134
When am I gonna do my exercise?

851
00:58:46,134 --> 00:58:47,154
What am I gonna eat?

852
00:58:47,484 --> 00:58:49,224
That's probably made the biggest difference.

853
00:58:49,254 --> 00:58:53,304
'Cause then, then it's in, and I've thought about it
rather than just being reactive when I'm, when I'm

854
00:58:53,304 --> 00:58:55,824
hungry, or when I'm tired and then not doing anything.

855
00:58:55,824 --> 00:58:56,604
So that's really

856
00:58:56,904 --> 00:59:00,384
Hussein: And plan, like for me, like
includes actually popping it in my calendar.

857
00:59:00,624 --> 00:59:06,204
So in the days that I have blocks where I've
popped in, I still do my 10 minute garden.

858
00:59:06,444 --> 00:59:11,034
So for example, that's actually in the calendar
and it stops me from putting a Teams call or

859
00:59:11,034 --> 00:59:16,554
putting in a meeting or whatever over it because
it's there and I find it difficult to replace it.

860
00:59:16,824 --> 00:59:17,934
I don't like deleting it.

861
00:59:17,934 --> 00:59:20,964
'cause then it feels like actually
I'm not prioritizing that.

862
00:59:21,264 --> 00:59:22,434
I'm not giving it the time.

863
00:59:22,434 --> 00:59:25,374
I'll move it around sometimes 'cause I'll
be like, well, okay, I need to move around.

864
00:59:25,374 --> 00:59:28,644
But it always needs to be in there
between nine to five at some point.

865
00:59:28,944 --> 00:59:34,692
Whether it be walking outside of,  of the practice
or whether it be, uh, when I'm working from home,

866
00:59:34,692 --> 00:59:39,432
you know, going out into the garden, whatever
that may be, think and prioritize in the same way.

867
00:59:39,522 --> 00:59:44,382
So whether it be a calendar, whether it be a diary,
whether it be you write it down, you know, be intentional,

868
00:59:44,622 --> 00:59:49,122
Rachel: Now I know you obviously the
RCGP lead for lifestyle medicine.

869
00:59:49,122 --> 00:59:54,102
You do the course for Read, well, you run the
course for, for, for healthcare professionals

870
00:59:54,102 --> 00:59:57,222
who, who deliver lifestyle medicine for patients.

871
00:59:57,222 --> 01:00:00,672
And presumably it's, it's this sort of
advice that you've been giving us now, is

872
01:00:00,672 --> 01:00:02,592
it, is there anything that extra in that.

873
01:00:02,746 --> 01:00:02,926
Hussein: Yeah.

874
01:00:02,926 --> 01:00:03,136
yeah.

875
01:00:03,166 --> 01:00:07,816
Because I think what's beautiful about Lifestyle
medicine is that when you train in that you

876
01:00:07,816 --> 01:00:14,986
develop so many skills for your patient, but
these skills are 100% transferable for yourself.

877
01:00:15,286 --> 01:00:21,016
And I'd really, really recommend anyone working in
healthcare to consider doing the lifestyle medicine

878
01:00:21,016 --> 01:00:27,976
course because it just, it enables you to get a better
understanding on topics that are so fundamental and

879
01:00:27,976 --> 01:00:35,026
so core for health, but when you think back on it,
how much time have you had to train yourself up on it?

880
01:00:35,326 --> 01:00:41,536
And in fact, one survey asked patients,
where did they get the lifestyle advice from?

881
01:00:41,536 --> 01:00:45,406
Would they get it from their GP or
from another healthcare professional?

882
01:00:45,706 --> 01:00:47,506
80% put Instagram.

883
01:00:47,806 --> 01:00:49,006
And come on.

884
01:00:49,006 --> 01:00:54,196
You know when the World Health Organization says
that 7% of the content on there is actually accurate?

885
01:00:54,196 --> 01:00:54,546
Rachel: Seven.

886
01:00:54,846 --> 01:00:57,066
Oh, I thought you was gonna say 7% is inaccurate.

887
01:00:57,216 --> 01:00:57,816
7%

888
01:00:57,861 --> 01:00:59,961
Hussein: 7% is accurate, okay.

889
01:01:00,201 --> 01:01:01,761
You know, we, we can't accept that.

890
01:01:01,761 --> 01:01:03,861
And, and can you blame them for accessing it there?

891
01:01:03,861 --> 01:01:07,011
Because we don't have the knowledge,
the confidence, or the skills.

892
01:01:07,311 --> 01:01:09,951
So it's really important that we consider doing it.

893
01:01:09,951 --> 01:01:15,591
And in particular for GPs, um, in April
this year, I co co-authored the role for

894
01:01:15,591 --> 01:01:18,141
an extended role in lifestyle medicine.

895
01:01:18,291 --> 01:01:22,341
And I really recommend going on the college
website, having a look at that framework.

896
01:01:22,581 --> 01:01:26,691
It details really kind of what the role
involves, what training's required, et cetera.

897
01:01:26,991 --> 01:01:27,351
And.

898
01:01:27,596 --> 01:01:32,996
I really feel passionately that all GPS
should have that lifestyle bow in their hat.

899
01:01:32,996 --> 01:01:37,916
And the more we can get, the more we can show
within healthcare and within primary care

900
01:01:38,096 --> 01:01:40,226
that we care about it, that it's important.

901
01:01:40,526 --> 01:01:46,166
And that can be such a important message
when it comes to policy makers and decisions.

902
01:01:46,166 --> 01:01:51,416
If healthcare is taking lifestyle seriously, then
hopefully we can have the policies that impacts our

903
01:01:51,416 --> 01:01:54,866
environment, and not only for ourselves, but our patients.

904
01:01:54,905 --> 01:02:00,305
Rachel: And I can imagine, um, for doctors and nurses and
other healthcare professionals that train in lifestyle

905
01:02:00,305 --> 01:02:04,805
medicine, it's a, it's a really rewarding field to be in.

906
01:02:04,805 --> 01:02:06,545
You probably get a bit more time with the patients.

907
01:02:06,545 --> 01:02:10,865
Actually, it's something that you probably
could say hell yes to in your day.

908
01:02:11,005 --> 01:02:13,705
Hussein: Really enjoyable, and it just feels.

909
01:02:14,005 --> 01:02:16,395
Like it feels like compound interest often.

910
01:02:16,455 --> 01:02:22,335
Because when you make lifestyle changes with patients,
often it's to try and remedy something specific.

911
01:02:22,365 --> 01:02:27,105
But what the patient and both the clinician
realizes is that you get compound benefits.

912
01:02:27,105 --> 01:02:32,440
So for example, when you support a patient to join a
community walking group because they wanna improve their

913
01:02:32,715 --> 01:02:39,825
fitness, for example, yes the fitness will improve,
but they'll also improve the connection with community.

914
01:02:39,915 --> 01:02:43,005
They'll also have a space to improve their mental health.

915
01:02:43,065 --> 01:02:46,845
They'll also be able to sleep better because
they're being active regularly through the day.

916
01:02:47,145 --> 01:02:48,465
It just compounds.

917
01:02:48,675 --> 01:02:54,585
So instead, unlike with medication where you have negative
side effects that compound the benefit that you're treating,

918
01:02:54,885 --> 01:02:57,915
the side effects in lifestyle interventions are positive.

919
01:02:58,215 --> 01:03:03,765
They're often things that the, the clinician or the
patient hadn't really focused on, but come about.

920
01:03:04,024 --> 01:03:04,294
Rachel: Yeah.

921
01:03:04,294 --> 01:03:09,454
And we are right back to where we started this podcast with
you saying you make the lifestyle change, actually, you

922
01:03:09,454 --> 01:03:12,604
find yourself more successful, more productive, happier.

923
01:03:12,664 --> 01:03:17,104
You are not just thinner and fitter and more
relaxed, but there's all that other stuff there.

924
01:03:17,104 --> 01:03:18,514
So, thank you so much.

925
01:03:18,514 --> 01:03:21,064
That has been so, so inspiring to me.

926
01:03:21,064 --> 01:03:22,654
There's loads of stuff I'm gonna do.

927
01:03:22,684 --> 01:03:25,234
Um, we'll have to have you back another time if that's okay.

928
01:03:25,234 --> 01:03:26,704
There's loads more to talk about.

929
01:03:26,772 --> 01:03:29,682
How can we find out more about you and
your work and all that sort of stuff.

930
01:03:29,832 --> 01:03:36,342
Hussein: I have a kind of, uh, an Instagram account which
is focused on trying to promote healthy lifestyles, give

931
01:03:36,342 --> 01:03:44,032
factual and important information, try to boost up that 7%,
and the account is Iron Doctor HAZ, which is my initials.

932
01:03:44,182 --> 01:03:48,502
And on LinkedIn is where I share a lot of the
kind of professional developments in terms of

933
01:03:48,502 --> 01:03:53,232
what the college is doing, and so just search
that through my name, Hussain Al-Zubaidi,

934
01:03:53,468 --> 01:03:55,928
Rachel: Thank you so much and
hopefully we'll speak again soon.

935
01:03:56,002 --> 01:03:56,470
Hussein: Take care.

936
01:03:58,969 --> 01:03:59,899
Rachel: Thanks for listening.

937
01:04:00,139 --> 01:04:04,549
Don't forget, we provide a self-coaching
CPD workbook for every episode.

938
01:04:04,849 --> 01:04:09,109
You can sign up for it via the link in
the show notes, and if this episode was

939
01:04:09,109 --> 01:04:11,419
helpful, then please share it with a friend.

940
01:04:11,929 --> 01:04:17,479
Get in touch with any comments or
suggestions at hello@unnotterfrog.com.

941
01:04:17,719 --> 01:04:18,649
I love to hear from you.

942
01:04:19,039 --> 01:04:24,499
And finally, if you are enjoying the podcast, please
rate it and leave a review wherever you are listening.

943
01:04:24,709 --> 01:04:25,759
It really helps.

944
01:04:25,994 --> 01:04:26,654
Bye for now.