0:00:00.440,0:00:06.720
a black executive perspective whether you're aware
of it or not it's a topic that is often avoided
0:00:06.720,0:00:12.840
we'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and
how we didn't even talk about this topic cuz we
0:00:12.840,0:00:20.120
were afraid a black executive perspective that's
where I struggle like I don't know like how am
0:00:20.120,0:00:26.560
I how am I supposed to navigate this without
diminishing her without calling attention to
0:00:26.560,0:00:33.080
her in a negative way but resolving the issue
and and hopefully making some progress so that
0:00:33.080,0:00:38.200
there's a lesson learned here welcome to a
black executive perspective podcast a safe
0:00:38.200,0:00:44.240
space where we discuss all matters related to
race especially race in Corporate America I'm
0:00:44.240,0:00:53.280
your host Tony tidbit in July 12th 1967 the US
Supreme Court unanimously interracial marriage
0:00:53.280,0:01:00.400
legal in the United States prior to the ruling
interracial marriage was still against the law in
0:01:00.400,0:01:08.000
16 States if you believe that or not only 1% of
newlyweds were interracial couples at that time
0:01:08.000,0:01:16.320
today almost 20% of all Newly Weds differ from
one another when it comes to race or ethnicity
0:01:16.320,0:01:27.160
today 94% of Americans approve of interracial
marriage versus 3% in the 1960s although we've
0:01:27.160,0:01:33.800
made tremendous strides in marriage have the
same strides been made in couples navigating
0:01:33.800,0:01:41.000
And discussing their differences regarding race
in their marriage Brian Stern welcome to a black
0:01:41.000,0:01:46.360
executive perspective podcast no thank you for
having me I'm excited to be here buddy we're so
0:01:46.360,0:01:53.880
glad that you came this is awesome this is a very
um I don't want to say unique topic but it is a
0:01:53.880,0:02:00.800
topic that is very important you know especially
based on where we were in 1967 where 16 States
0:02:00.800,0:02:07.280
it was illegal to uh for interracial marriage in
that state and as I talked about 3% of that time
0:02:07.280,0:02:14.080
approved of interracial marriage now 94% 20%
of all newlyweds of new of Newly Weds are now
0:02:14.080,0:02:20.480
interracial couples so we've made tremendous
strides from an external standpoint however
0:02:20.480,0:02:27.000
and you're here to help us navigate in terms of
internally um you know how the couples uh work
0:02:27.000,0:02:32.480
together in terms of communicating about their
racial differences so exactly I'm very excited
0:02:32.480,0:02:37.600
for you to be here for us to to dive into this
but before we get started tell us a little bit
0:02:37.600,0:02:44.760
about yourself what do you do where do you live at
sure so uh I'm a career ownership coach um I help
0:02:44.760,0:02:49.520
people that are primarily in career transition
maybe looking for something a little bit different
0:02:49.520,0:02:55.400
um I do specialize in helping people navigate the
world of entering entrepreneurship um and this is
0:02:55.400,0:03:00.400
a recent change for me but I'm having a lot of
fun doing it um I do live down on the uh the
0:03:00.400,0:03:06.040
Jersey Shore uh with my wife as you mentioned in
an interracial marriage and I do have a daughter
0:03:06.040,0:03:12.320
uh 12 years old um that uh we share a lovely home
with so in all transparency uh Brian and I have
0:03:12.320,0:03:19.120
known each other for 23 years and we met in the
advertising industry and uh you've thus have made
0:03:19.120,0:03:27.000
a transition over to you know uh coaching future
entrepreneurs so what made you you know want to
0:03:27.000,0:03:33.640
make that change in your life at this time frame
I think a lot of it was uh getting to a point in
0:03:33.640,0:03:37.920
my career where I realized I was turning 50 years
old and still didn't know what I wanted to do when
0:03:37.920,0:03:44.880
I grew up um and because of that I actually went
and got a coach myself and in figuring out what I
0:03:44.880,0:03:50.960
wanted to do I actually just enjoyed the process
of the figuring out piece so instead of moving on
0:03:50.960,0:03:56.200
to something else I actually asked my coach can I
just do what you do I love helping people figure
0:03:56.200,0:04:01.120
out what they want to do because I've enjoyed
the process myself so much that's how I fell
0:04:01.120,0:04:06.760
into it and well that is awesome man and and so
dovet telling on that tell us a little bit about
0:04:06.760,0:04:13.520
why you wanted to appear on this podcast and talk
about this subject yeah so uh I got to be honest
0:04:13.520,0:04:17.720
with you I'm I'm a loyal listener and I and the
thought of being on the podcast was actually kind
0:04:17.720,0:04:24.200
of intimidating um I just listening to the the the
like the expertise the credentials of the people
0:04:24.200,0:04:30.120
you've had on and I'm just a middle-aged white guy
from New Jersey you know so um it is a little bit
0:04:30.120,0:04:36.640
intimidating but I I have to say like I've I've
gotten so much value out of listening and I love
0:04:36.640,0:04:42.040
the Mantra making uncomfortable conversations
comfortable because there's a conversation I've
0:04:42.040,0:04:48.400
wanted to have for over 15 years and I've tried
to have it and I've just not been successful I've
0:04:48.400,0:04:54.120
stumbled through it a couple of times it's just
you know something that I've struggled with and
0:04:54.120,0:04:59.840
knowing that you've created this safe space um
I'm here for ulterior motives I'm here to learn
0:04:59.840,0:05:06.080
how to have this conversation I'm here to get your
perspective on how to have this conversation about
0:05:06.080,0:05:11.760
being in an interracial relationship and how to
navigate it and the issues that we face I know
0:05:11.760,0:05:16.560
what the issues are and I have a perspective on
it I can't say that I'm an expert can't say I have
0:05:16.560,0:05:22.400
it figured out that's why I wanted to be here to
talk about it out yeah I mean that is awesome and
0:05:22.400,0:05:27.120
I gotta say this to you too right I mean number
one I'm you know I'm glad that you're a loyal
0:05:27.120,0:05:32.280
listener to a black executive perspective podcast
that is great I'm glad you like what we're putting
0:05:32.280,0:05:39.040
out there um here's the kicker though and look
I I'm not an expert either but I can share with
0:05:39.040,0:05:45.120
you my experience um in terms of what I dealt
with when it comes to interracial marriage and
0:05:45.120,0:05:51.840
some of my friends and family that are in racial
uh uh uh uh relationships um but you you're kind
0:05:51.840,0:05:55.920
of lucking out a little bit I got to say that
right because you know you get to come on the
0:05:55.920,0:06:01.320
platform and and and talk about this and and ask
me question and if I didn't have this podcast I
0:06:01.320,0:06:06.560
would be charging your ass all right just to be
clear all right you there would be a feet all
0:06:06.560,0:06:13.120
right but guess what we have the platform that's
what this is about it's for us to be able to learn
0:06:13.120,0:06:22.080
and share and hear other people's stories so more
importantly I am uh ecstatic that you you know are
0:06:22.080,0:06:27.160
willing to come on this is not an easy thing to
do to come on and and talk and share your story
0:06:27.160,0:06:32.400
to you know who knows thousands maybe millions
of individuals who may hear this right I know
0:06:32.400,0:06:38.040
we're not at Millions uh in terms of subscribers
yet but you know I'm I'm being optimistic yeah
0:06:38.040,0:06:43.720
so so so that is awesome so you ready to have
this conversation my friend I've been waiting
0:06:43.720,0:06:48.400
for 15 plus years to have this conversation okay
let's talk about it so when you say you've been
0:06:48.400,0:06:55.280
waiting for 15 plus years to have a conversation
tell us give us some background in terms of what
0:06:55.280,0:07:01.920
you mean specifically so I've been married for
15 plus years uh met my wife obviously before
0:07:01.920,0:07:10.040
that and honestly race was never really something
that was top of mind for me growing up it just I
0:07:10.040,0:07:13.840
I would have said if you had asked me when I was
a kid how much does race impact your life I would
0:07:13.840,0:07:19.120
have said it doesn't impact it at all right my
perspective has changed dramatically I realize
0:07:19.120,0:07:22.880
now it impacts 100% of my life and it always has
and it always so hold on right there real quick
0:07:22.880,0:07:28.480
right so you you just got finish saying hey if you
I would asked you 15 years ago and how this race
0:07:28.480,0:07:32.600
impact your life you have said it doesn't impact
my life why would you have said that at that time
0:07:32.600,0:07:41.960
frame I think it's because I I took for granted
that it wasn't something that impacted me because
0:07:41.960,0:07:50.640
I felt free to go almost anywhere I'd like to go
I felt like I could um play in any Arena that I
0:07:50.640,0:07:57.280
wanted to play in um now I know the reason I felt
that way is because of my race right so now I know
0:07:57.280,0:08:02.360
that that that was actually a privilege that I had
um and it just didn't really occur to me until you
0:08:02.360,0:08:07.360
become more sensitive to it and you become more
sensitive to it by being exposed to more diversity
0:08:07.360,0:08:13.800
I mean I grew up in a very homogeneous rural
area in New Jersey so until you get exposed to
0:08:13.800,0:08:18.720
those things and you start to realize and become
more sensitive to it you know you don't recognize
0:08:18.720,0:08:23.160
that race does impact you no matter who you are
no matter where you are so and and you're 100%
0:08:23.160,0:08:30.040
correct what changed though in terms of now I see
the world totally different than you did you know
0:08:30.040,0:08:35.840
prior to 15 years ago I mean I did start to see a
little bit of a difference when I went to college
0:08:35.840,0:08:41.800
naturally you get exposed to to to more people to
more environments to more experiences but I will
0:08:41.800,0:08:48.880
say I became extraordinarily sensitive to it when
I met my my wife right because you start to notice
0:08:48.880,0:08:55.960
things that impact you on a on a deeper level than
would if you just see them out in the wild so to
0:08:55.960,0:09:03.040
speak things like walking into a store and know
noticing how the the the uh the retail reps in the
0:09:03.040,0:09:09.720
store don't talk to your wife or the way that they
do talk to her right and then the way that that
0:09:09.720,0:09:15.760
I'm used to them talking to me or treating me and
when you see the disparity there and you get hyper
0:09:15.760,0:09:24.600
sensitive to it um it's it's it kind of disrupts
your entire way of thinking your entire reality
0:09:24.600,0:09:29.960
gets adjusted by that I mean we've had incidents
in stores like I mentioned we had had an incident
0:09:29.960,0:09:35.360
with um once my child was born you have different
difference experiences I think a big turning point
0:09:35.360,0:09:41.320
for me was when I realized how much is this going
to impact my child so my my wife took my daughter
0:09:41.320,0:09:49.920
to a daycare to just explore it see if this would
be a good fit for us and as soon as she walked in
0:09:49.920,0:09:54.080
they told her that she couldn't afford it they
told her that this wasn't the right environment
0:09:54.080,0:10:01.680
for her the child and she came home upset and she
she knew at this time this is a racial issue it
0:10:01.680,0:10:06.720
was clearly racial cuz she looked around the
room it was entirely white you know there was
0:10:06.720,0:10:12.920
no diversity there and you know my my inclination
is I'm driving right back to this place and I'm
0:10:12.920,0:10:18.720
going to raise hell I'm going to go give him a
piece of my mind but my daugh my wife her her
0:10:18.720,0:10:24.960
her initial reaction was just let it go don't
don't worry about it just let it go we'll just
0:10:24.960,0:10:32.480
move on and that's been the the the the the course
of action in almost every incident that I've that
0:10:32.480,0:10:37.200
I've experienced with her whether it's in a store
and somebody I I feel is not treating her right
0:10:37.200,0:10:43.560
or anytime I I I get a sense that something might
be related to race I want to you know stand at the
0:10:43.560,0:10:49.440
top of the mountain and start screaming my lungs
out you know this isn't right um her reaction is
0:10:49.440,0:10:54.200
always don't worry about it just let it slide
it's not a big deal or I don't think this has
0:10:54.200,0:10:58.240
anything to do with race I don't think it does
or you see it differently you you definitely
0:10:58.240,0:11:03.840
think it hasn't and I am I'm hyper sensitive to
it now and I always have been and and it's been
0:11:03.840,0:11:08.640
exaggerated since I've had a child because that's
where you know you of course you know you don't
0:11:08.640,0:11:12.840
want your child to have to face these things so
my wife is from the Philippines she was born and
0:11:12.840,0:11:17.560
raised there she came here after she's completed
high school and was this the first time you ever
0:11:17.560,0:11:24.040
dated somebody outside of your race yes seriously
yes you you hesitated a little bit like you you
0:11:24.040,0:11:29.120
well I I I had but it was really like you know a
one first date kind of one date thing and then you
0:11:29.120,0:11:34.560
know but this was the first relationship okay all
right and then you know growing up in South Jersey
0:11:34.560,0:11:41.200
did you ever see yourself being with somebody
outside of your race at that time frame I don't
0:11:41.200,0:11:47.040
know that I ever considered it either way it just
it it just wasn't part of the thought process to
0:11:47.040,0:11:53.000
me it it when I met her it really wasn't part
of my thought process even when I met her it
0:11:53.000,0:11:57.600
really wasn't like it just wasn't something I
had considered that she is a different culture
0:11:57.600,0:12:02.960
A different race it's just she's a cool person
I'd like to hang out with so it really wasn't
0:12:02.960,0:12:09.880
an issue for me there I think meeting her family
um you know I wanted to see how I'd be perceived
0:12:09.880,0:12:14.720
as an outsider similar with my family I I was
curious to see how she'd be perceived and both
0:12:14.720,0:12:19.560
of our families were very welcoming we're very
thankful for that and I think that's part of what
0:12:19.560,0:12:25.320
made me so hyper sensitive to when I'd see things
externally because if my family could could could
0:12:25.320,0:12:30.760
approve of her and love her I don't understand
why everybody else has right let me ask you this
0:12:30.760,0:12:38.160
did um did you guys ever talk about race at all
before you got married did you talk about the
0:12:38.160,0:12:42.360
differences did you you just said hey I wanted to
meet her parents and wonder if there was going to
0:12:42.360,0:12:48.320
be an issue and was there I mean did any of that
come up did you guys talk about any differences
0:12:48.320,0:12:52.280
how the world you would have to deal with the
world did you any of that stuff come up I'll
0:12:52.280,0:12:59.040
tell you the one time something came up I met her
stepfather he was an African-American man Alabama
0:12:59.040,0:13:03.880
so her mother had come here uh before Ruby had
come here her mother had been here and had gotten
0:13:03.880,0:13:09.520
remarried and so that added another Dynamic he
was actually the one person who brought it up
0:13:09.520,0:13:15.520
what did he say what's this white boy doing in
my he said what what's this white boy doing in
0:13:15.520,0:13:22.320
my apartment was he joking he and I were great or
was he really serious it was hard to tell with him
0:13:22.320,0:13:26.520
it was hard to tell with him but I think there
was something behind that but it was interesting
0:13:26.520,0:13:31.560
because he himself was in an interracial marriage
being African-American his wife was Filipina but
0:13:31.560,0:13:38.680
uh you know that he it took a while for me to
win him over U but uh but in general it was very
0:13:38.680,0:13:45.120
accepting and there really wasn't a a tremendous
strain or tension in the fact that we were coming
0:13:45.120,0:13:50.080
from different races okay so that's great there's
yeah everybody's you know singing kumaya they all
0:13:50.080,0:13:58.240
for it back to my question though did you two
do you and Ruby ever when you're dating I mean
0:13:58.240,0:14:03.080
I would imagine imine before you got married you
went to a restaurant or you went to a store so
0:14:03.080,0:14:08.800
I would imagine and you tell us did you see these
type things back then before you even got married
0:14:08.800,0:14:14.280
did you guys ever talk about absolutely you know
how it is that she the world that she deals with
0:14:14.280,0:14:19.800
versus the world that you deal with I I tried
many times and this is what I wanted to talk
0:14:19.800,0:14:28.000
to you about in part because the conversation is
extremely labored right we tried when I would see
0:14:28.000,0:14:33.880
something that she not getting serviced in a in a
store or or you know somebody would kind of push
0:14:33.880,0:14:38.720
her out of the way in the subway station right
like when I see little things like that or you
0:14:38.720,0:14:44.240
know I'd have to jump out and call the taxi right
like there are little things like that um and I'd
0:14:44.240,0:14:50.280
want to talk about it but the response I would
constantly get is don't worry about it don't make
0:14:50.280,0:14:57.200
a big deal about it just move on like let's just
yeah go go go somewhere else let's do something
0:14:57.200,0:15:02.880
else there really wasn't the ability to talk about
it like I I mentioned in my you know when we were
0:15:02.880,0:15:08.240
first talking about why I want to come on the
podcast I tried I stumbled you know through it
0:15:08.240,0:15:13.640
and it was difficult it's a hard conversation
to have and the problem is we could talk about
0:15:13.640,0:15:19.080
anything we can talk about finances we can talk
about our kid we can talk about vacations we're
0:15:19.080,0:15:26.200
equal footing when we talk about all those things
this is the one area where we are not equal the
0:15:26.200,0:15:30.480
the the way that she walks through the world is
always going to be different than the way I walk
0:15:30.480,0:15:37.440
through the world and because I can I see these
things now and I'm hyp sensitive to them I can
0:15:37.440,0:15:45.880
sympathize with her I cannot empathize and that's
a big issue and because of that I struggle having
0:15:45.880,0:15:50.000
those conversations so you know you you beat me to
the punch and you but you answered the question I
0:15:50.000,0:15:53.360
was going to ask you right away like do you guys
talk about other stuff and you just said hey we're
0:15:53.360,0:16:00.160
Partners in everything but you know finances our
our child's education vacation just regular how's
0:16:00.160,0:16:06.040
your day you guys talk about everything but when
it comes to race it doesn't she's just always very
0:16:06.040,0:16:13.400
you know no big deal let's leave it alone um so
let let me ask you this how about your daughter
0:16:13.400,0:16:18.960
tell us to tell us a little bit about the dynamic
there does Race come up her based on her being
0:16:18.960,0:16:28.280
biracial do is it a different Dynamic is does that
conversation come up so with her it comes up often
0:16:28.280,0:16:34.880
and she's open to talk about it so my daughter's
interesting in that she can fit in almost anywhere
0:16:34.880,0:16:38.560
I've had people walk up to her and start speaking
Spanish I've had people walk up to her and start
0:16:38.560,0:16:45.160
speaking Arabic you know she she can fit in to
to almost any culture she has this that you know
0:16:45.160,0:16:51.640
this deep Olive complexion she's got this this
really like I don't know how you would say it
0:16:51.640,0:16:55.880
but it's just like this face of like you know
everybody that's in every commercial now where
0:16:55.880,0:17:03.160
you can't tell what race they are right that's
the kind of face she has right so for her she is
0:17:03.160,0:17:09.640
just as hyp sensitive as I am and she's willing
to talk about it and she's willing to make a big
0:17:09.640,0:17:15.920
deal about it which is so interesting because she
takes after her mother in so many ways except for
0:17:15.920,0:17:21.800
this one way in that she will you know want want
to take the mantle and she'll stand up for people
0:17:21.800,0:17:28.240
when she sees things she'll want to talk about
it she'll she'll want to call people out um it's
0:17:28.240,0:17:32.960
just a very different Dynamic and I don't know
how much of that is because she can like walk
0:17:32.960,0:17:39.840
between Both Worlds or is it a generational thing
you know that's what I wonder you know so have you
0:17:39.840,0:17:46.840
you so backing up a little bit you said when you
met her father and first thing he said is who's
0:17:46.840,0:17:54.360
this white dude why he in my house all right so
for him to say that I would imagine race came up
0:17:54.360,0:18:00.080
at some point in their relationship um just for
him to say that right right he's her father he's
0:18:00.080,0:18:08.040
black his her Mo you know her mother is Filipino
I would I would imagine that came up so I mean
0:18:08.040,0:18:15.440
have you chatted with her parents in terms of this
issue and that she won't speak on it and cuz what
0:18:15.440,0:18:21.000
I'm thinking is there an issue that happened when
she was a kid that you know could been traumatic
0:18:21.000,0:18:25.160
and and she just don't want to talk about it
and so when this comes up she's just like I
0:18:25.160,0:18:30.160
don't even want to deal with it so I'm just trying
to I'm just I'm in Pro here any conversation with
0:18:30.160,0:18:35.600
the family on any history anything like that
so I never really got in depth with her her
0:18:35.600,0:18:42.000
stepfather on it he was very standoffish and stuff
and he didn't even meet her until like got so yeah
0:18:42.000,0:18:48.440
he don't know you know but her mother I've had
conversations with and she interestingly she was
0:18:48.440,0:18:55.640
a school teacher in Manhattan for about 30 years
um and so she dealt with the Dynamics of you know
0:18:55.640,0:19:01.360
a very diverse classroom and had a lot of those
conversations over time she had actually even
0:19:01.360,0:19:05.640
been called in front of the board of education
for a student claiming that she was a racist at
0:19:05.640,0:19:10.840
one time and so she brought me her son-in-law
she brought her her husband who happened to be
0:19:10.840,0:19:14.800
African-American and we went and sat with her and
they were like who's this and she's like that's
0:19:14.800,0:19:23.960
my family right so I've had some conversations
with her about it um and she's very much in that
0:19:23.960,0:19:31.560
similar vein of I you know I'll talk to you about
it but she's not going to really give me what she
0:19:31.560,0:19:37.880
really feels or what she really believes or or the
depth of of of what her experience is because it's
0:19:37.880,0:19:46.880
very much a um we just deal with it so it's not a
big deal and to me it is a big deal and I I this
0:19:46.880,0:19:51.960
is why I wanted to talk to you too because I know
that you you you're in an interracial marriage as
0:19:51.960,0:19:57.840
well and I'm curious I'm so curious if your wife
brings stuff up the way I bring stuff up with my
0:19:57.840,0:20:05.120
wife does she bring stuff up and how do you react
to it yeah you know so that's a good one right so
0:20:05.120,0:20:14.400
so I answer your question specifically yes was it
that way in the beginning no okay so so and the
0:20:14.400,0:20:19.760
reason I'm I'm asking the questions I can I can
relate to your wife a little bit I think a lot of
0:20:19.760,0:20:29.040
people who are listening to uh uh this this this
episode who are people of color um they can relate
0:20:29.040,0:20:37.200
a little bit in terms of you know the um not
just let it go right just let it go you know what
0:20:37.200,0:20:44.400
forget about it and you know here's the kicker
well there's a lot you I don't know if we got
0:20:44.400,0:20:50.200
enough time double A is this an hour episode or
we is this a 247 you know what I'm saying is this
0:20:50.200,0:20:54.600
uh you know what I'm saying this is one of those
bin series and stuff that nature right we'll see
0:20:54.600,0:21:00.720
what people's attention span is nowadays cuz I can
take a long long time right so there's a lot right
0:21:00.720,0:21:08.040
there there there's historical issues there's
self-esteem issues there's uh there's there
0:21:08.040,0:21:14.920
there there there are you cultural issues there
there's a lot to it right I for me I I can speak
0:21:14.920,0:21:26.240
specifically for me for me it was a self-esteem
issue okay and so when things like that happened
0:21:26.240,0:21:35.720
to me I didn't say a whole lot I didn't like
now you kidding me I I you know don't even try
0:21:35.720,0:21:41.480
it right but yeah there was times when I was a kid
was called every and this wasn't and just be clear
0:21:41.480,0:21:48.240
this wasn't by white kids this was by black kids I
was called every you know black name under the sun
0:21:48.240,0:21:54.880
um because of colorism okay because colorism in
terms of you know groups every group I don't care
0:21:54.880,0:22:00.000
if you're Hispanic you're you're you're you're
you're Cuban you're you're African-American you're
0:22:00.000,0:22:07.000
Italian uh darker people are are are are are done
and lighter people are better they're smarter
0:22:07.000,0:22:11.960
they're so that that that is for real right and
I dealt with that and then more importantly you
0:22:11.960,0:22:19.200
know my I had a different father than my my um
my siblings I was the oldest my father I was dark
0:22:19.200,0:22:26.400
skinned and my my sister my brother and my two
sisters were light-skinned okay and so even with
0:22:26.400,0:22:30.800
them when I get in fights with them remember one
time my sister called me a black blah blah blah
0:22:30.800,0:22:35.560
my mother heard and she went off on her and don't
you ever do that so so so so just when you hear
0:22:35.560,0:22:42.680
that and you're a young kid it be for me it was
a self-esteem issue okay and then as I got older
0:22:42.680,0:22:49.320
I was just I hate to say it just trying to stay
out of the way I mean I didn't because you know if
0:22:49.320,0:22:54.440
somebody did something or whatever I didn't even
want to deal with the confrontation where does
0:22:54.440,0:23:02.800
that go how am I by me being uh uh uh combative
you know how do that make that situation better
0:23:02.800,0:23:08.800
I should have been but at that time frame I wasn't
trying to make no wavs all right so so there's a
0:23:08.800,0:23:17.760
lot to it in terms of you know why people just
say Let It Go why people um don't really push
0:23:17.760,0:23:22.560
back and and there's things I'm not even thinking
about I remember when you know I go to Martha's
0:23:22.560,0:23:28.880
Vineyard every year right for vacation and we had
brought my my uh my wife's sister and her husband
0:23:28.880,0:23:35.200
they came and stayed a week with us and we were
walking around and then my nephew um who who uh
0:23:35.200,0:23:43.720
my my sister's son he came we we flew him up and
he's like 6'5 um and he and he was like 18 at the
0:23:43.720,0:23:50.840
time last year in high school and he's tall black
guy right and then uh he was holding hand to hand
0:23:50.840,0:23:58.720
with my my my wife's um my nephew from my wife's
side who's Lily White right and we're walking
0:23:58.720,0:24:02.840
down Martha we walking in edger toown I think it
was we're walking around and we're having a good
0:24:02.840,0:24:09.280
time and I'm just minding my business and then
later that day her husband said to me he was
0:24:09.280,0:24:13.200
no it wasn't even later that day I think it was
it was that around not I think it was around the
0:24:13.200,0:24:18.080
same time frame he was like I don't get it how do
you take what these people are looking at you the
0:24:18.080,0:24:23.720
way you know he said something like how do you and
and I didn't even he because he was like where you
0:24:23.720,0:24:29.160
are he was like I couldn't take this look how they
looking at you how do you take it and I was just
0:24:29.160,0:24:35.960
like what are you talking about because I was at a
point where I don't even pay attention to that no
0:24:35.960,0:24:43.280
longer it's so prevalent it's been so part of who
I am everywhere I've been at and especially since
0:24:43.280,0:24:49.360
you know I married my wife or we started dating
you you just become uh what's the word I want to
0:24:49.360,0:24:55.680
use um I'm not even sensitive it just becomes like
a callous you don't even think about it because if
0:24:55.680,0:25:04.520
I had to think about that all the time Brian I
could not be who I am I couldn't Prosper cuz I
0:25:04.520,0:25:11.360
would always think everything is they're doing
this to me because I'm black they're they're and
0:25:11.360,0:25:17.400
nobody wants to be in that your wife doesn't
want to be in that nobody that's an area and
0:25:17.400,0:25:23.520
I know I got friends of mine people I know who
are talented who could be anything but because
0:25:23.520,0:25:29.480
that is their mindset they don't go far because
now every the leaf blew down my street cuz I was
0:25:29.480,0:25:35.280
black all right so so and again I'm I'm I'm I'm
I'm I'm embellishing a little bit but what I'm
0:25:35.280,0:25:43.480
saying is that has a lot to do with it right and
and so back to your question um when when me and
0:25:43.480,0:25:49.360
my wife who I met when I worked up in Boston we
worked at the same company okay and she was our
0:25:49.360,0:25:55.280
marketing person I was a sales account executive
selling television advertising um and it was it
0:25:55.280,0:25:59.840
wasn't love at first sight we just we started
working together and then we you know started
0:25:59.840,0:26:05.080
all as an office we all hung out and we went
drinking and you know then her and I started
0:26:05.080,0:26:09.200
chatting and the next year you know we went to
the movies and you know then it became you know
0:26:09.200,0:26:16.360
we started you know taking it seriously um and so
I'll be honest with you so for me I was like cuz
0:26:16.360,0:26:20.560
my this is my second marriage my first marriage
I was married to a black lady all right loved her
0:26:20.560,0:26:26.440
to death we loved her just didn't work out right
so did I ever say that I would marry um somebody
0:26:26.440,0:26:32.600
outside of my raise no but I wasn't opposed to it
my mother always was you know she always you know
0:26:32.600,0:26:37.840
taught us about you know whoever loves you who all
I care about is they take care of you I don't care
0:26:37.840,0:26:41.560
what color they are I don't care where they come
from long as they love you for you and they take
0:26:41.560,0:26:46.880
care of you that's all that matters right so that
was always our mindset however so but when me and
0:26:46.880,0:26:51.720
my my wife got together you know and she grew
up in a small town outside of Boston I'm from
0:26:51.720,0:26:57.280
Detroit Michigan you know I was like wow this
is great you know and I was I was thinking oh
0:26:57.280,0:27:04.120
she must know what black people go through okay
because she's willing to to to to to date a black
0:27:04.120,0:27:11.560
guy right no she ain't had no clue okay she a had
no clue right that was me being naive that was me
0:27:11.560,0:27:18.320
being like oh this must be right and so you know
we had our own issues in the beginning right she
0:27:18.320,0:27:24.560
noticed a few things when we first started dating
going to restaurants and stuff to that nature she
0:27:24.560,0:27:28.600
would see my face change when I'm waiting for
the waiter you know I'm like I said when I was
0:27:28.600,0:27:33.480
a kid and I was younger I really didn't push
back or same thing and then finally a button
0:27:33.480,0:27:39.320
went off and I was like no I'm not doing that no
longer so you know I I hold people accountable I
0:27:39.320,0:27:46.720
call things out as I see them um when it comes
to disrespecting me in my face if I'm walking
0:27:46.720,0:27:50.840
down the street and people looking at me fny I
don't care about that that's your problem right
0:27:50.840,0:27:58.200
but when I go to the store or I'm in a restaurant
or you know people just like just SHO sh me away
0:27:58.200,0:28:03.120
or don't give me the respect that I deserve as a
human being then I'm going to call him out right
0:28:03.120,0:28:09.000
so so but in the beginning she saw a couple of
things um but the big thing happened is when we
0:28:09.000,0:28:18.120
had kids and then she saw how our kids the na the
world they had to navigate how the school system
0:28:18.120,0:28:24.360
you know same things that you were talking about
with your um your daughter right and then so my
0:28:24.360,0:28:32.280
wife became more sensitive she it wasn't that she
wasn't sensitive she was sensitive to overt racism
0:28:32.280,0:28:39.120
like the disrespect stuff in restaurants but she
wasn't you know uh um sensitive to all the issues
0:28:39.120,0:28:45.440
and all the microaggressions and all the misnomers
and stereotypes and all that type stuff she just
0:28:45.440,0:28:51.320
wasn't so so that was stuff and to be honest that
we sit down and have a conversation and I say well
0:28:51.320,0:28:57.600
look you know you can't do this you know or this
is no I read I can give you a million examples I
0:28:57.600,0:29:04.080
remember I don't know what case this was I can't
remember what it was but it was a police brutality
0:29:04.080,0:29:11.040
case uh the police said they did this and the
black dude or was a woman I can't remember exactly
0:29:11.040,0:29:16.240
what it was and they said no that didn't happened
okay and then my wife I mean we were watching the
0:29:16.240,0:29:23.280
news and she was like why would the police make
something up okay that because because the bottom
0:29:23.280,0:29:29.120
line she's like where she grew up the police
they're your friend right they they're they're
0:29:29.120,0:29:35.120
they're there to protect you right where I grew
up that ain't the case all right and that so so
0:29:35.120,0:29:42.760
right then this is my point here she was like
why would the police lie and I'm like because
0:29:42.760,0:29:47.600
they lie because here's a a person of color
and they treated this person any way and they
0:29:47.600,0:29:53.040
know that this person who's telling them who's
who's basically uh making an accusation a lot
0:29:53.040,0:29:58.240
of people won't believe that person because they
are the police right but I and and I had a million
0:29:58.240,0:30:02.800
experiences with this so is a lot of people of
color who's listening to this friends and stuff
0:30:02.800,0:30:07.840
that nature but this is my point so there was
still even though we fell in love even though
0:30:07.840,0:30:17.720
we had kids even all that there still was uh what
you was is it unconscious and conscious issues um
0:30:17.720,0:30:25.280
because of where she grew up what she saw her
experiences and what I grew where I grew up and
0:30:25.280,0:30:32.200
what I saw in my experiences and to be fair going
back to your situation with your wife I didn't sit
0:30:32.200,0:30:38.080
her down and say let me tell you everything that's
going on I I didn't even want to talk about it I
0:30:38.080,0:30:44.920
didn't why and that's what I struggle with want
to talk about right because it's just one you
0:30:44.920,0:30:52.040
use the word I I think I'm I'm sorry to interrupt
but you know you use the word callous that you've
0:30:52.040,0:30:58.840
developed this over time so when you're a newborn
baby and you're skin is Super Fresh right and
0:30:58.840,0:31:04.640
Hyper sensitive to everything well that's what
I feel like I was like when I first got together
0:31:04.640,0:31:11.120
with my wife I don't have the callus and and your
wife didn't have the callus either right so when
0:31:11.120,0:31:20.080
these things happen we are not equipped in any way
to to to to process it in in the right ways or the
0:31:20.080,0:31:26.200
wrong ways I don't know but we're not equipped to
process it in any way right so what happens is I I
0:31:26.200,0:31:30.840
get hyper sensitive I want to talk about it and I
want to I want to do something and take some sort
0:31:30.840,0:31:39.600
of action right and there's this imbalance because
my wife has the callus and wants to just you know
0:31:39.600,0:31:44.240
let it slide or move past it because she doesn't
want to focus on it I don't know how to get to
0:31:44.240,0:31:49.320
that point where we are on the same page and
how to manage these things and it's a particular
0:31:49.320,0:31:55.680
concern as you mentioned once you have a child
once there are children in the mix because do
0:31:55.680,0:32:01.640
you want to let these things slide what kind of
example is that setting for my kid right my kid
0:32:01.640,0:32:06.280
wants to talk about it but my wife tells her don't
worry about it and I'm like no no what happened we
0:32:06.280,0:32:12.880
got to we got to fix this who can I talk to who do
who do I got to go smack on the butt right like so
0:32:12.880,0:32:17.840
we're coming at it from a very different way I
feel like after 15 years I'm starting to learn
0:32:17.840,0:32:23.280
how to process it I'm starting to I wouldn't call
them calluses but my Skin's getting a little bit
0:32:23.280,0:32:31.280
tougher but I still don't know the right way
to address these situations right if we are in
0:32:31.280,0:32:37.120
a store and my wife is waiting to be helped and
three other people who've come in after her are
0:32:37.120,0:32:45.440
getting helped before her what's my role right
what I mean what what would you expect of an
0:32:45.440,0:32:52.240
ally in that situation should they come forward
and say hey why aren't you helping my wife and
0:32:52.240,0:32:58.640
bringing up that maybe it's racial or is it just
yeah I I don't know the right thing to do here
0:32:58.640,0:33:03.800
because if my daughter's there do I want to make
it a different conversation or I just want to you
0:33:03.800,0:33:12.040
know wait patiently for her to be so so so again
dou way is this a B series because that's I I can
0:33:12.040,0:33:18.640
go a million ways I can go a million ways with
your question right um's nod and say no it's not
0:33:18.640,0:33:25.440
a business Series so we got to stay on point okay
so so here's here's the thing right number one so
0:33:25.440,0:33:30.120
let's be clear here and I'm going to be clear and
I know you love your wife and I'm going to use me
0:33:30.120,0:33:38.120
in this example and I said earlier I didn't say a
lot that was a mistake nothing changes unless you
0:33:38.120,0:33:43.320
hold people accountable okay you have to speak
out on it that doesn't mean you got to bring a
0:33:43.320,0:33:50.200
club back and like or you know but you have to
speak on it you have to okay you you you have to
0:33:50.200,0:33:55.320
do that right so and let me give you an example
give you a and again I I just told you earlier
0:33:55.320,0:34:01.600
I just let it go cuz it was more of a self-esteem
issue okay but then once I got past that you know
0:34:01.600,0:34:08.000
when I moved out here to Connecticut um I used
to drive to Detroit uh from Connecticut all the
0:34:08.000,0:34:14.160
time visit family it was I was doing business
out there so it was just a regular thing I was
0:34:14.160,0:34:20.160
driving I would you know at a certain way I go
84 80 I go through Pennsylvania so I remember
0:34:20.160,0:34:26.080
this one time I was going through Pennsylvania I
had to pull over and get some gas small town in
0:34:26.080,0:34:33.000
Pennsylvania I don't remember and as I pulled up
and this was back in the '90s uh early '90s where
0:34:33.000,0:34:41.560
you had to go inside to pay for the gas okay so
I remember uh I pulled up and as I pulled up this
0:34:41.560,0:34:48.960
white guy on this Harley motorcycle he pulled up
the same time okay and big dude I mean and he had
0:34:48.960,0:34:56.000
the U was was what's the Hell's Angels right he
had the Hell's Angels uh jacket on you know tats
0:34:56.000,0:35:01.840
whole n yards I'm like look at this dude right so
I'm like automatically I'm on my Spidey senses are
0:35:01.840,0:35:08.080
going off right so I I was like look let me get
the gas and get up out of here right so I walk in
0:35:08.080,0:35:14.240
he walked in right behind me in the store we get
to the counter there's a lady right in front of me
0:35:14.240,0:35:21.200
I'm right behind the lady and then this big dude
is right behind me okay the lady gets whatever
0:35:21.200,0:35:29.320
she wants she leaves I step up to the counter
the dude looks around look I'm I'm getting away
0:35:29.320,0:35:33.520
from the mic so cuz I'm getting hyped let me stay
in the mic cuz you're not going to hear me cuz I
0:35:33.520,0:35:40.840
still get mad at this right the Dude Looks around
me and says to the big motorcycle dude can I help
0:35:40.840,0:35:48.960
you and the Motorcycle Dude this I mean this
dude was like 65 200 he he started to take a
0:35:48.960,0:35:54.760
step up and said yeah and I was like hold on I I
mean immediately I was like hold on man I looked
0:35:54.760,0:36:00.400
at this dude I was like I was next and the dude
was like oh I didn't see you I was like what do
0:36:00.400,0:36:04.960
you mean you didn't see me I was standing right
here there's only three of us in the store I you
0:36:04.960,0:36:10.880
can see how I buddy I was so mad right and then
I looked at this dude for he was like trying to
0:36:10.880,0:36:16.600
back up a little bit and then I looked at him
from like 30 minutes 30 seconds I was Furious
0:36:16.600,0:36:22.520
right so I said he said what do you want I was
like fill it up on whatever number it was right
0:36:22.520,0:36:27.640
then immediately after I started comaling down
if I got this big dude this big har motorcycle
0:36:27.640,0:36:32.840
dude was behind me I was like oh man now this is
going to be so I turned around I said sorry about
0:36:32.840,0:36:41.480
that man you know what he said he said no man you
were right okay so you got to call it out you have
0:36:41.480,0:36:51.320
to call it out right he didn't see me you kidding
me here okay so so so but I had to get up to that
0:36:51.320,0:36:59.000
level of being able to hold people accountable
same thing with my wife okay my wife now is you
0:36:59.000,0:37:05.200
know it's funny because in the beginning she had
no clue you know uh there was some difficulties
0:37:05.200,0:37:10.560
just be clear here because she grew up different
and it's not her fault she grew up in a way her
0:37:10.560,0:37:14.920
experience was just different than mine okay
it was naive for me to think oh she likes me
0:37:14.920,0:37:20.920
so she'll be okay with all the black experence no
because what she heard and what she saw and her
0:37:20.920,0:37:26.120
friends and family and what they said or didn't
say about black people people of color you know
0:37:26.120,0:37:34.840
it it just didn't fit that narrative however now
she's the white Angela Davis okay and I I I I mean
0:37:34.840,0:37:42.720
that I'm not even flat out my wife is she's
like you Brian she is very sensitive she sees
0:37:42.720,0:37:48.920
everything right I'll tell you another quick story
and this is Martha venard thing okay we this was
0:37:48.920,0:37:54.240
back our daughters were we went we go to Martha Z
every year so this was our daughters maybe three
0:37:54.240,0:38:01.280
or four and typically when the the the the ferry
we take the ferry home it stops off in Woods Hole
0:38:01.280,0:38:08.200
and then you drive and there used to be this IHOP
um you know and we were like we going we we call
0:38:08.200,0:38:13.160
6 o'clock in the morning FY we're like we'll just
get breakfast at IHOP so we drive to IHOP it's on
0:38:13.160,0:38:21.200
the way home right we get there place is packed
we put our names in it tooks a while they look we
0:38:21.200,0:38:27.520
finally get in we sit at the table right we're
hungry the kids are hungry and they just don't
0:38:27.520,0:38:33.760
come by to ask us for anything how can we help you
hey just so you know it's really crowded we'll be
0:38:33.760,0:38:41.000
with you short nothing all right they just kept
walking past us serving everybody else my wife and
0:38:41.000,0:38:49.640
and again she sees it she sees it right and I'm
getting mad and to be honest I'm trying to stay
0:38:49.640,0:38:56.520
calm because I know me but she's getting becoming
Furious right and then all of a sudden she uh the
0:38:56.520,0:39:01.560
waitress was walking past her and she grabbed the
waitress arm and said are you going to effing come
0:39:01.560,0:39:06.280
and serve us what's the issue and the waitress
was like you know trying to play oh I'm sorry I'm
0:39:06.280,0:39:13.680
sorry and then the waitress went into the kitchen
my wife followed her in the kitchen and then start
0:39:13.680,0:39:20.040
saying where's the manager at I want her fired all
I mean everybody in the whole IHOP is looking and
0:39:20.040,0:39:24.680
and and she's like I want her fired I want her
fired so I'm trying to calm her down I'm like
0:39:24.680,0:39:29.720
Gail Gail calm down she's like look don't take
up for them you know what I'm saying and I'm like
0:39:29.720,0:39:37.840
I'm not taking up for them I'm just trying to calm
you down right hold them see when you see it when
0:39:37.840,0:39:48.920
you see it and you're not used to that you become
Furious and this is what people of color deal with
0:39:48.920,0:39:56.120
all the time so now here's here's my my thoughts
on that because I've had this same experience and
0:39:56.120,0:40:02.400
i' I don't get I didn't go into the kitchen but
similarly in a in a restaurant you know we we got
0:40:02.400,0:40:06.240
served but then they never came to check on us you
know we're eating spicy food they wouldn't give
0:40:06.240,0:40:11.080
us water like it was one of those things where I
was like what's going on here like I'm dying but
0:40:11.080,0:40:16.400
uh you know finally I just grabbed somebody and
I was like where can I go to get my own water for
0:40:16.400,0:40:21.280
for me and my family right like I'll go get it
since you're obviously too busy for us right and
0:40:21.280,0:40:27.320
I clearly expressed that I thought this was like
you know a racial thing now my wife was furious
0:40:27.320,0:40:34.360
with me for doing that right for calling attention
to it now so my perspective is I'm standing up and
0:40:34.360,0:40:42.520
trying to do the right thing and her perspective
is that I somehow called more attention to her
0:40:42.520,0:40:49.600
and my daughter unwanted attention because of
the situation so in my in my view I thought I
0:40:49.600,0:40:56.320
was doing the right thing by standing up for but
in her perspective I was in some way I don't I
0:40:56.320,0:41:03.240
don't know if this is the right word but like
diminishing her in a way right because I was
0:41:03.240,0:41:08.400
calling attention to this inequity and making a
bigger deal out of it than my wife wanted me to
0:41:08.400,0:41:13.560
make so in that situation I mean your wife's
going into the kitchen and demanding someone
0:41:13.560,0:41:19.640
be fired like she's doing that with all the right
intentions as I would and I have but what is your
0:41:19.640,0:41:27.120
experience and that situation when your spouse and
like me for my my wife when we're going and trying
0:41:27.120,0:41:34.920
to you know right or wrong and with all the right
intentions but we may be doing it in a way that's
0:41:34.920,0:41:40.080
insensitive to your experience and I don't that's
where I struggle like I don't know like how am
0:41:40.080,0:41:46.520
I how am I supposed to navigate this without
diminishing her without calling attention to
0:41:46.520,0:41:53.400
her in a negative way but resolving the issue and
hopefully making some progress so that there's a
0:41:53.400,0:41:58.600
lesson learned here yeah I mean so look my friend
and and again can't speak for your wife right I
0:41:58.600,0:42:08.000
don't know if there's something that happened you
know when she was a kid and this is just a a a
0:42:08.000,0:42:15.840
you know uh a PS demo I don't know right there's
something there right so and and if she doesn't
0:42:15.840,0:42:22.640
communicate that way to you it's hard for you to
your point to be able to to know the right thing
0:42:22.640,0:42:27.320
to do but here's the kicker this is what I think
and I I wrote this down when you were asking this
0:42:27.320,0:42:36.840
question I think you have to do you and you
got to let her be her you can't make somebody
0:42:36.840,0:42:43.760
who doesn't want to deal with something deal with
it and and who knows maybe it's uncomfortableness
0:42:43.760,0:42:50.400
maybe to your point maybe she sees it as a a a a
diminishing her as a human being to bring it up
0:42:50.400,0:42:55.840
because you know she wants to walk her head with
dignity and no matter what somebody does that's
0:42:55.840,0:43:01.840
not going to stop her from you know seeing herself
as being you know a full human being with all the
0:43:01.840,0:43:09.320
respect so and it could be that I I I don't know
right however I think as you being her husband you
0:43:09.320,0:43:17.920
know that you know you ever read the book um the
five love languages buddy you should pick that up
0:43:17.920,0:43:24.880
it's a good book yeah sounds like I should right
and uh you know and just to give you an example of
0:43:24.880,0:43:30.920
the book maybe some body in the audience read it
I would recommend that every couple read it I re
0:43:30.920,0:43:36.880
be honest with you I would recommend that uh even
if you're not in a relationship you read it okay
0:43:36.880,0:43:44.200
because every human being has a different love
language okay everyone and N nine times out of 10
0:43:44.200,0:43:49.800
we struggle is because we don't understand their
love language and they don't understand our love
0:43:49.800,0:43:54.240
language right and in the book there's this five
love languages and just to give you an example you
0:43:54.240,0:44:02.960
know this couple goes to therapy and um you know
the the therapist says what's the issue and the
0:44:02.960,0:44:11.480
wife says he don't love me and my man was like
that's a lie I tell her I love her all the time
0:44:11.480,0:44:18.240
right I mean from from a a a bird's eye view you
be like well the dude's telling me he love her so
0:44:18.240,0:44:23.360
maybe she she ain't listening or whatever case
beat no that wasn't the case her love language
0:44:23.360,0:44:31.280
is not by affirmations her love language is by
what he does for her he can tell her all day
0:44:31.280,0:44:38.320
long he love her but he ain't taking the garbage
out okay he not doing this he not that's her love
0:44:38.320,0:44:46.240
that language by him doing stuff like that says
he loves me okay and then some other people you
0:44:46.240,0:44:51.600
know are you know affir Masia the dude never says
oh she don't never say she love me how do I know
0:44:51.600,0:44:56.520
she love me well I cook for you I do this That
Ain't My love language I want to hear you love
0:44:56.520,0:45:01.600
me right I mean so so that's to be honest nine
times of 10 those are big issues that we don't
0:45:01.600,0:45:07.520
even know because we don't understand each other's
love language like I'm a physical touch anybody
0:45:07.520,0:45:15.200
know me I'm a touchy Huggy person okay flat out
okay you ain't hugging me you ain't you don't
0:45:15.200,0:45:23.280
love me okay that's just how I am right my wife
is time okay spending time okay that's how I show
0:45:23.280,0:45:28.800
that I love her by spending time so everybody's
got different languages okay so I would recommend
0:45:28.800,0:45:35.320
you pick that up because that would be just in
general okay however back to the point at the
0:45:35.320,0:45:44.760
end of the day you can't make somebody want to
chat about something um and they don't want to I
0:45:44.760,0:45:52.840
always believe there's a root issue to everything
always all in every circumstance there's a roote
0:45:52.840,0:45:58.440
issue also I would add it's a cultural thing
too you know bu even though people of color
0:45:58.440,0:46:04.280
you know we're all different cultures and to my
knowledge you know I Asian friends and stuff very
0:46:04.280,0:46:11.080
very Reserve culturally generally speaking would
you would you agree right so like you know you
0:46:11.080,0:46:15.560
know the the the I I would say you know the
African American Experience or you know the
0:46:15.560,0:46:20.440
black experience here even the Latino latinx
experience you know we're we've been fighting
0:46:20.440,0:46:29.600
here you know like we you know up put your hands
up we scrap like know we're generally Scrappers
0:46:29.600,0:46:34.120
right like you know civil rights you know we have
these examples of just people just just not going
0:46:34.120,0:46:39.440
to take it anymore you know and then there's a lot
of that in our culture in American culture so I I
0:46:39.440,0:46:43.640
would say there something there's something I you
know maybe there's something to that you know just
0:46:43.640,0:46:48.560
I'm not a psychologist but that just my two cents
and and and so double way thanks for that and
0:46:48.560,0:46:53.160
that's an excellent point and that's where I was
talking about a little bit about you know at the
0:46:53.160,0:47:00.880
end of the day she may feel like this is beneath
her okay and you know what that's fine but she
0:47:00.880,0:47:08.360
has her husband who's her protector all right she
has her husband who's making sure that she's not
0:47:08.360,0:47:15.920
disrespected when he's around she has her husband
that's going to speak on their behalf as a family
0:47:15.920,0:47:21.000
as well as his daughter that is awesome and if you
were tell the the the the key is I mean there's
0:47:21.000,0:47:26.480
a lot of couples where somebody ain't saying you
know not even speaking up and and and their wife
0:47:26.480,0:47:33.560
or husband is being disrespected they say nothing
right so so it's it's a tough thing man so back to
0:47:33.560,0:47:41.040
doublea's point you know the it could be cultural
it's really what is the there's a root issue right
0:47:41.040,0:47:46.720
and let's just say if it was cultural let's let's
go by what da says let's say it's a cultural issue
0:47:46.720,0:47:52.200
how would you how would you deal with that how
would would things change from your standpoint
0:47:52.200,0:47:59.200
I don't know that they would I think that I still
am going to because the way that I react to these
0:47:59.200,0:48:05.200
things I haven't developed that callous yet right
I'm still hyp sensitive to it and because of my
0:48:05.200,0:48:10.160
daughter I'm also hyper sensitive and it's really
difficult for me to to watch and and see these
0:48:10.160,0:48:15.720
things and react in the way that may be more
appropriate for her culturally for example if
0:48:15.720,0:48:21.360
she is more reserved which she is I admit that her
culture they're very reserved they're not ones to
0:48:21.360,0:48:28.080
to to cause a stir and and push back um in the
face of inequity at any great length they will
0:48:28.080,0:48:36.280
behind closed doors but not in the moment right um
so I don't know that it would change dramatically
0:48:36.280,0:48:44.760
the way that I would act in a situation or the way
that I would um want to address it with her either
0:48:44.760,0:48:51.960
because I haven't processed there I haven't had
enough time to process the world that she walks
0:48:51.960,0:48:56.680
through and I don't know I ever will because I
I'm white you you know and it's not something
0:48:56.680,0:49:03.200
I'm going to be able to to again empathize with
experiencing those can I so I just want to push
0:49:03.200,0:49:09.040
back a little bit on what you just got finished
saying right I I think you can empathize right I
0:49:09.040,0:49:18.000
I really do because you see it you see the world
that she deals with your daughter deals with and
0:49:18.000,0:49:24.720
it's a different world than than you've dealt with
so you can you in other words I'm not saying that
0:49:24.720,0:49:29.920
you're going to know everything of course not so
I hear your point but that's part of the change
0:49:29.920,0:49:36.120
that's part of people learning is to be able to
empathize is to be able to put themselves in the
0:49:36.120,0:49:42.920
other person's uh shoes or see their own uh their
point of view and like wow I never understood
0:49:42.920,0:49:49.920
that wow now I got a better understanding so I
think the empathy is there go ahead yeah I had
0:49:49.920,0:49:55.960
a buddy of mine who um um he's from he's from the
Connecticut from you know from Daran and he lived
0:49:55.960,0:50:02.240
in Hawaii you know you know white affluent young
man um and you know lived out there was living his
0:50:02.240,0:50:06.720
you know living the dream you know was out there
with his brother Ren in a house and he told me
0:50:06.720,0:50:11.760
stories of how you know he was discriminated
against you know by the locals because he was
0:50:11.760,0:50:18.280
white you know he his house got robbed several
times because he was white you know and they told
0:50:18.280,0:50:24.600
him that was the reason so you know he ended up
realiz you know that he he learned it that way I
0:50:24.600,0:50:31.000
mean it wasn't fun but that's how he got empathy
you know he told me he's like wow you know I
0:50:31.000,0:50:35.640
experienced it personally you know as a as a white
person like I was discriminated against because it
0:50:35.640,0:50:42.120
happens right you know so sometimes until it
happens to you you know what I mean or or you
0:50:42.120,0:50:47.800
really see you know like I think you know until
it happens to you you won't really you know nobody
0:50:47.800,0:50:52.520
really has that ability to always have you know
get into other people's you know shoes and feel
0:50:52.520,0:50:57.920
that empathy it's not it's not an easy thing to
do you and speaking and and even taking it to the
0:50:57.920,0:51:05.200
next level this is where we as a as a uh as human
beings this is where we struggle is because when
0:51:05.200,0:51:11.680
and again I'm going to I'm going to I'll use me as
an example right let's say I met my wife and let's
0:51:11.680,0:51:17.520
say I wasn't there wasn't a self-esteem issues or
I didn't you know I was more you know proactive
0:51:17.520,0:51:22.200
and said you know these things happened and these
always watch when we go to this restaurant watch
0:51:22.200,0:51:27.320
and see what happen watch watch watch watch oh you
know what this because of this this and that well
0:51:27.320,0:51:34.080
guess what because she hasn't experienced that
there is no empathy so she's they could be looking
0:51:34.080,0:51:40.440
back saying he's making excuses okay because this
stuff ain't happening you know and that's what
0:51:40.440,0:51:46.240
that's real people they're today like oh they're
always complaining or they're always that ain't
0:51:46.240,0:51:51.000
true or this there it's no it's not a cultural
issue when it comes to people of color in the
0:51:51.000,0:51:56.840
police department is a few bad apples right so at
the end of the day there is you can't have empathy
0:51:56.840,0:52:02.680
like that because you haven't experienced it right
so now people just making it up or they trying to
0:52:02.680,0:52:09.120
get a buck or you know and that unfortunately
that's a narrative that people push out to say
0:52:09.120,0:52:16.760
this stuff is all people crying okay and so you
do have empathy my friend because you're taking
0:52:16.760,0:52:24.840
up for your family you see it right and you're
like I can't believe this and it's nothing wrong
0:52:24.840,0:52:34.000
with being hyper sensitive to it and to be fair
if more people were hyper sensitive to this this
0:52:34.000,0:52:41.400
podcast wouldn't even exist right there'll be
more uh uh uh uh people of color and uh in in
0:52:41.400,0:52:50.080
seite positions there'll be anything you can name
it would be better because people was sensitive to
0:52:50.080,0:52:57.200
it because they experienced it and theyve seen it
for themselves what's your thoughts on that I mean
0:52:57.200,0:53:04.320
I I agree I I I think I'm struggling with the word
empathy tell tell us why I still think of I still
0:53:04.320,0:53:10.400
feel like because I haven't experienced what dou
was saying about his friend going to why I haven't
0:53:10.400,0:53:18.960
had that level of of discriminatory action against
me um so I still struggle with with with really
0:53:18.960,0:53:24.520
believing that I can empathize I still think I'm
more on that that sympathize I'm on that I will
0:53:24.520,0:53:30.600
say I am on the the far end of the spectrum now in
terms of awareness which is I think that's big for
0:53:30.600,0:53:36.880
me because growing up that just it just wasn't an
issue that I that I was ever talked about I mean
0:53:36.880,0:53:41.560
my family was very open to everybody and you
know we we you know my my parents have always
0:53:41.560,0:53:46.560
been very open-minded and we were you know taught
that everybody's equal but when you grow up in a
0:53:46.560,0:53:51.360
homogeneous neighborhood you don't really see
the reasons why that's so important to believe
0:53:51.360,0:53:59.600
those things um so I still struggle with that
that I haven't really felt the Thousand Paper
0:53:59.600,0:54:06.680
cuts that you may have gone through that my wife
may have gone through right like I just i' I've
0:54:06.680,0:54:12.600
I've seen a few Beast thingss here and there right
and that's enough to get me riled up but the the
0:54:12.600,0:54:18.360
Thousand Paper Cuts over time that you develop the
calluses like that's where I struggle with with
0:54:18.360,0:54:24.120
believing that I can truly empath yeah so look
we may just have a different um definition of
0:54:24.120,0:54:30.320
the empathy because you will never to be honest my
friend you'll never get the million Cuts okay it
0:54:30.320,0:54:37.320
just ain't going to happen right so I I I think
and and and you consider your wife you and her
0:54:37.320,0:54:44.600
as one right when your wife hurts when your wife
hurts do you hurt so there you go absolutely and
0:54:44.600,0:54:49.520
I think in this instance what I what I believe
is that many times I feel like I'm hurting more
0:54:49.520,0:54:55.800
than she is and and and I don't know I can't say
it is I can't say it's not but maybe maybe maybe
0:54:55.800,0:55:01.760
that could be and but that's part of the empathy
part you are hurting you are those experiences
0:55:01.760,0:55:07.080
do hurt you because they're hurting your wife
they're hurting your daughter right so but I
0:55:07.080,0:55:12.760
I I hear your point if you're look at the end of
the day you're not it's just unless to like double
0:55:12.760,0:55:18.560
AES gave example unless you move somewhere and
you're the minority and you're getting stomped
0:55:18.560,0:55:25.320
on and and and and and and and and talked about
and and and disparaged over and over again then
0:55:25.320,0:55:30.880
absolutely absolutely cuz ultimately you know the
empathy has to come from you know acknowledging
0:55:30.880,0:55:37.120
that hey this is fundamentally wrong exact it's
real number one it's real all right and like you
0:55:37.120,0:55:43.720
said it's fund so that and you see that right now
and you've seen it let's be fair I'm backing up
0:55:43.720,0:55:51.080
because you said 15 years okay since you guys been
together right and you've been taking up for her
0:55:51.080,0:55:58.800
in these situations for 15 years okay I mean buddy
I you know it may not be the same cuts that I go
0:55:58.800,0:56:04.080
through but those are Cuts because if your wife
was white you wouldn't been dealing with those
0:56:04.080,0:56:12.080
cuts okay so so I think you definitely empathize
and I think I just think my friend number one I
0:56:12.080,0:56:21.520
want to thank you for coming on and sharing this
story I think that's I take it back I know there's
0:56:21.520,0:56:34.160
a ton of people who black white uh Native American
Indian uh Hispanic Uh Russian Jewish that are in
0:56:34.160,0:56:40.520
interracial interracial relationships and they
still struggle they they have a united front but
0:56:40.520,0:56:47.480
they don't communicate together not some of them
do right some of them I'm not gonna say everybody
0:56:47.480,0:56:52.680
but for me and my wife it was a struggle until
until we were able to get past that I I didn't
0:56:52.680,0:56:57.560
want to have that conversation because I got to
now educ I got to have this conversation with you
0:56:57.560,0:57:01.680
why I got to go out in the world and have the
conversation too you know I want to come home
0:57:01.680,0:57:07.080
and just chill and you know you know we arguing
about the grocery money okay and I got to talk
0:57:07.080,0:57:12.560
about this right I don't want to deal with that
right but at some point it has to and look I put
0:57:12.560,0:57:17.960
this way I think as a as a you said earlier that
you guys talk about everything finances everything
0:57:17.960,0:57:24.160
which is great I think you got to talk about this
too and you got to and and and and and to double
0:57:24.160,0:57:32.160
a point you could cultural issues whatever but I
think a good healthy partner um they would talk
0:57:32.160,0:57:37.200
about these things the differences what this
person sees and what the other person doesn't
0:57:37.200,0:57:43.800
see right and it's not about well you don't get
it or it's just more of like you said awareness
0:57:43.800,0:57:51.400
right and eventually eventually you know the
other partner I'm just being honest I and maybe
0:57:51.400,0:57:55.960
I'm being naive but I think eventually the other
partner will we'll see especially when you have
0:57:55.960,0:58:05.080
kids man when you have kids it changes the whole
dynamic changes the whole dynamic right and so now
0:58:05.080,0:58:11.640
does me and my wife talk about race all the time
no right she talk to be honest she talks about
0:58:11.640,0:58:18.600
it more than I do it's like you right we go you
know I you know they they chose her because of you
0:58:18.600,0:58:25.600
know blah blah blah I just listen okay and I'm not
disagreeing with her but I just listen because you
0:58:25.600,0:58:33.440
know she she now is running with the Mano so it's
all but when when you're when your spouses can be
0:58:33.440,0:58:39.680
on the same page when it comes to something like
this it makes life a lot better and listen I've
0:58:39.680,0:58:46.600
chatted with friends of mine who are now going
through some hard times from a you know um divorce
0:58:46.600,0:58:54.000
um because of the issue that you brought up Brian
is that one is uh African-American one is Hispanic
0:58:54.000,0:59:00.440
and uh one person sees this and the other person
doesn't see it and they don't want to the the the
0:59:00.440,0:59:06.120
uh the the husband don't want to talk about it
it and and nothing nothing can get solved that
0:59:06.120,0:59:11.520
way right so I think it's very important that at
least you try that's what you've been trying to
0:59:11.520,0:59:19.600
do and but net net you got to do you and you got
to let your wife your partner be them that's fair
0:59:19.600,0:59:25.000
and I I I just want to thank you for having me
on because I do think this was actually inform
0:59:25.000,0:59:31.120
and actually I I will use the term therapeutic for
me because I do think this I've been waiting for
0:59:31.120,0:59:35.520
15 years to have this conversation actually
longer than 15 years I've known my wife for
0:59:35.520,0:59:40.600
about 18 years so I've been waiting for for that
long to have a good honest conversation about
0:59:40.600,0:59:45.640
this so I I absolutely appreciate you and I just
thank you for having me on to have if I had have
0:59:45.640,0:59:50.280
known that we could have started a black executive
perspective 15 years ago I would matter of fact by
0:59:50.280,0:59:54.640
now we would been you know D way and I would be
you know we'd be talking we would have invented
0:59:55.240,1:00:01.640
I mean flat out right but all jokes aside my man
uh love you a lot I more important look this is
1:00:01.640,1:00:06.840
not easy to do especially come on a podcast and
talk about something and so I really appreciate
1:00:06.840,1:00:12.880
you sharing we want to have you back uh talk about
some other topics um but final thoughts that you
1:00:12.880,1:00:18.440
have you want to share with the audience my friend
well um I think couple things number one in taking
1:00:18.440,1:00:25.880
your advice you know it doesn't mean we have to
talk about it all the time but as as part of this
1:00:25.880,1:00:30.960
this husband and wife team when my wife's ready
when she's able when she's willing I'm going to
1:00:30.960,1:00:35.560
be there for her to talk about it in any way shap
or form I think that's critical important and and
1:00:35.560,1:00:41.480
to to be the listener not necessarily to like try
and you know solve everything but just be there to
1:00:41.480,1:00:46.640
listen uh to get a better understanding because
I do think you're right I probably do empathize
1:00:46.640,1:00:53.320
a little more than I than I realize but I want
to be there more completely um the other thing
1:00:53.320,1:00:58.360
I I I think that's really important to me is
this is going to sound like a weird analogy
1:00:58.360,1:01:05.240
maybe but there's a reason that TVs aren't black
and white anymore right there's a reason that we
1:01:05.240,1:01:10.600
evolve to see things in color right movies are in
color because they're better they're better and I
1:01:10.600,1:01:15.880
think just recognizing that there is a world out
there that's not just black and white and that
1:01:15.880,1:01:20.320
everyone has that different experience and the
different View and and being hyp sensitive to
1:01:20.320,1:01:25.480
it while it can be painful at times honestly it's
just made me a better person it's definitely made
1:01:25.480,1:01:30.360
me a better husband and and I hope a much better
father as well that is awesome my friend that is
1:01:30.360,1:01:36.720
great that's great stuff that you sharing here um
how can a black executive perspective help you Bri
1:01:36.720,1:01:46.240
well uh Shameless self-plug um I can be found at
b. eSource coach.com um I love talking to people
1:01:46.240,1:01:49.640
about where they are in their careers and how I
might be able to help them if they're looking to
1:01:49.640,1:01:57.120
make a change um I love talking to people from all
shapes forums careers any any any perspective that
1:01:57.120,1:02:01.480
they come from CU it's all about an education
for me as well well that's awesome so so if you
1:02:01.480,1:02:06.680
guys are looking to change careers you want to
do something different reach out to my man Brian
1:02:06.680,1:02:12.000
Stern at the email excuse me at the website he
just announced thank you for sharing this story
1:02:12.000,1:02:17.080
I is is is is really uh you know something that
really touched my heart and I'm pretty sure you're
1:02:17.080,1:02:21.920
going to you're going to touch a lot of other
people's uh heart as well I hope you enjoy uh
1:02:21.920,1:02:27.240
today's episode on a black executive perspective
podcast interracial marriage the conscious and
1:02:27.240,1:02:33.320
unconscious ways we relate to each other and the
world around us so you heard from Brian Stern he's
1:02:33.320,1:02:39.800
been with his wife for 15 years uh grew up uh
homogenous area all of a sudden now he's in an
1:02:39.800,1:02:46.960
interracial relationship very uh hyper sensitive
see how things are being how his wife is being
1:02:46.960,1:02:52.800
disrespected treated just in her daily walk and
you know loves it takes up for her but also at
1:02:52.800,1:02:58.640
the same time she does want to communicate about
it and then obviously you know they're not the
1:02:58.640,1:03:03.320
only ones that do that so A couple quick little
thoughts I have um you know look at the end of the
1:03:03.320,1:03:11.240
day we all grow at different time frames we don't
know what um somebody else goes through why they
1:03:11.240,1:03:17.080
do why they don't do so nine times out a 10 if a
person doesn't want to talk about something uh you
1:03:17.080,1:03:22.480
got to let them just be themselves right and it
doesn't stop you from doing the things that you
1:03:22.480,1:03:30.640
feel is the right thing to do for your family um
seeds all seeds grow at different times and um a
1:03:30.640,1:03:36.680
lot of times we're planting seeds and if they're
in Fertile ground at some point they'll grow so we
1:03:36.680,1:03:44.760
got to recognize that number two it is important
if you can for interracial couples to talk about
1:03:44.760,1:03:50.040
you know their racial differences when they're
together yes you guys came together the whole
1:03:50.040,1:03:54.640
world was against you it's you versus the world
you going to have kids you showed that you know
1:03:54.640,1:03:59.360
we could be together but there are differences
there are issues not everybody's educated on
1:03:59.360,1:04:02.960
the same things that you know like I said my
wife wasn't educated on everything that I've
1:04:02.960,1:04:08.520
been through um so it's important at some point
that you guys people can sit down and have these
1:04:08.520,1:04:16.640
conversations and then N Net push come to shove
you take care of your family and the one thing the
1:04:16.640,1:04:21.520
only way we're going to change things is we have
to hold people accountable we can't brush stuff
1:04:21.520,1:04:27.280
under the rug like I've did for years and other
people do and just let it go no you have to hold
1:04:27.280,1:04:31.840
them accountable you have to call it out right
you don't have to beat nobody up you don't have
1:04:31.840,1:04:37.880
to attack anybody but you have to call it out okay
because the more you call it out the more things
1:04:37.880,1:04:44.360
will change so that's a a very very important
thing to do so you know what time it is it's time
1:04:44.360,1:04:50.480
for Tony's tidbit it's time for Tony's tidbit all
right so based on what we talked about today with
1:04:50.480,1:04:58.240
Brian today's tidbit is by David M world and it
goes a great marriage is not when a perfect couple
1:04:58.240,1:05:07.480
comes together it's when a imperfect couple learns
to enjoy their differences okay and that's what we
1:05:07.480,1:05:14.040
spoke to Brian today about as well so again I
hope you enjoyed I'm glad you tuned in to this
1:05:14.040,1:05:18.920
episode of a black executive perspective podcast
please come to our website at a black executive
1:05:18.920,1:05:25.760
perspective.com sign up for updates you can follow
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Spotify LinkedIn at Tony tidbit be for my guest
Brian Stern my executive producer doublea I'm Tony
1:05:44.480,1:05:50.960
tidbit we talked about it I love you a lot and
we're out thank you for tuning in to this episode
1:05:50.960,1:05:58.240
of Tony tidbit a black executive perspective
and for joining in today's conversation with
1:05:58.240,1:06:05.400
every story We Share every conversation we Foster
and every barrier we address we can ignite the
1:06:05.400,1:06:11.920
Sparks that bring about lasting change and this
carries us one step closer to transforming the
1:06:11.920,1:06:17.640
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resonated with you consider subscribing and
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