1
00:00:01,490 --> 00:00:02,411
thanks.

2
00:00:02,532 --> 00:00:04,270
Hey, I'm Patrick G.

3
00:00:04,270 --> 00:00:15,926
I was the handler for Demnatia Memoriae for the fine people from Hands on the Door and uh
Dead Letter Bureau.

4
00:00:16,367 --> 00:00:23,134
I also helped uh edit and made some of the handouts for Demnatia Memoriae.

5
00:00:25,772 --> 00:00:29,989
Is it cool?

6
00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:35,520
Sam, I played mole and I'm from hand on the door also.

7
00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,021
I'm the game mom.

8
00:00:37,523 --> 00:00:39,538
And then I popcorned to Jimmy.

9
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doubt.

10
00:00:39,859 --> 00:00:48,182
uh

11
00:00:49,924 --> 00:00:55,384
Yeah, I'm Jordan from Dead Letter Bureau and I was Agent Magpie today.

12
00:00:57,177 --> 00:01:03,368
And I am Nick, I played Miles, and I'm from Dead Little Bureau as well, and I edit the
show.

13
00:01:04,051 --> 00:01:05,272
Over to you, Hank.

14
00:01:06,556 --> 00:01:07,349
Hi, I'm Hank.

15
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I wrote the campaign with lot of help from Patrick and yeah, just very excited that you
guys uh got to play it.

16
00:01:14,691 --> 00:01:15,986
Yeah, it was a blast.

17
00:01:16,354 --> 00:01:18,019
Yeah, dude, it was really fun.

18
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There were a bunch of times where I was like, fuck yeah, when stuff was happening.

19
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So I was very stoked most.

20
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I don't want to hype it too much, but I've played a lot of the scenarios, not necessarily
campaigns, like the Delta Green official ones, and this was so much more fun.

21
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The writing and stuff was much more interesting, and the twists and turns, I felt like it
didn't follow that.

22
00:01:45,763 --> 00:01:50,710
that like, hey, investigate, kind of fight a monster cover up, right?

23
00:01:50,710 --> 00:01:53,765
Like the structure of this was really cool.

24
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And I know it's kind of a, you can only do it once type of thing, but it's super cool.

25
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So thank you.

26
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Yeah.

27
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yeah, definitely the takeaway when writing this was like go for the big swing because it
started out as a single scenario adventure and then basically it after Yeah, well then it

28
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was like well, you know if you get to do this twist once um What's the biggest what's the
biggest swing you can take with that?

29
00:02:25,079 --> 00:02:26,391
Yeah, that's cool.

30
00:02:26,432 --> 00:02:27,777
Sam, did you have question?

31
00:02:27,777 --> 00:02:36,520
Yeah, I mean, I could kind of see the breakdown of that because the structure was this
nice, ah you know, three part.

32
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eh And then you're obviously playing with expectations because I know when Patrick was
like, oh, now you go in the past.

33
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I was like, book.

34
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Yeah.

35
00:02:45,864 --> 00:02:48,104
Which I guess spoilers and.

36
00:02:49,086 --> 00:02:51,661
Don't listen to this before you've listened to the show.

37
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Or fuck it, listen to this before you listen to the show, whatever.

38
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Fuck it, man.

39
00:02:57,121 --> 00:02:58,641
You got free will.

40
00:02:59,181 --> 00:03:00,841
Yeah, yeah, what?

41
00:03:00,881 --> 00:03:01,681
Why?

42
00:03:02,621 --> 00:03:06,821
I had a couple questions about that actually, like thinking through that.

43
00:03:06,821 --> 00:03:12,221
think my first big one, and you know, maybe everybody writes differently.

44
00:03:12,221 --> 00:03:20,781
I know when I write for our show or when I write for any of the stuff, you know, we do,
there's always something.

45
00:03:20,897 --> 00:03:22,308
that I'm basing it around.

46
00:03:22,308 --> 00:03:25,760
Sometimes it's based around like a personal experience that I'm like working some shit
through.

47
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,592
Sometimes it's based around something really weird that sits with me for a while.

48
00:03:29,592 --> 00:03:34,924
You know, we do a lot of improv games on our show and that's usually how I come up with
stuff.

49
00:03:34,924 --> 00:03:44,479
Seems like that there could be something there or what was, was there anything like that,
I guess, underlying this or how did that inspiration happen?

50
00:03:44,812 --> 00:03:45,611
Hank, you're on air.

51
00:03:45,611 --> 00:03:46,738
What's your trauma?

52
00:03:47,105 --> 00:03:50,013
Yeah, ready to hear the drama dump.

53
00:03:50,013 --> 00:03:53,783
And we've got a therapist here, so this is actually a patient-client relationship.

54
00:03:53,783 --> 00:03:54,725
uh

55
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:55,908
Yeah, so.

56
00:03:55,908 --> 00:03:57,166
have to roll psychotherapy.

57
00:03:57,166 --> 00:03:58,466
Yeah, correct.

58
00:04:01,506 --> 00:04:02,926
Oh yeah, and two doctors, man.

59
00:04:02,926 --> 00:04:04,506
This is going to be expensive.

60
00:04:06,059 --> 00:04:06,979
god.

61
00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:17,187
I'm dealing with, I'm going through a braces treatment right now and a whole insurance
problem so I got enough going on with that.

62
00:04:17,869 --> 00:04:27,356
But no, the actual trauma is that um when I was in high school there was uh what we
thought was a very real school shooter situation.

63
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um Pretty much everyone hiding in the, um I was hiding in a dark room.

64
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um

65
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basically thinking about like did I not send enough text to my family and Then it kind of
happened to a lesser extent again when I was in college And then the other so that's kind

66
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of the mass violence Aspect of it which just kind of started I started noticing that I got
kind of anxious around just being in crowds and Just like oh gosh, what what if something

67
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happens?

68
00:05:04,776 --> 00:05:12,560
And the other thing was that the memory loss, which I've been scared of for ages, I used
to be scared of Groundhog Day, where it was like, they're just forgetting every loop, But

69
00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:26,178
no, that's kind of from my great grandmother and um my grandfather, who uh recently
passed, of Parkinson's.

70
00:05:26,178 --> 00:05:31,921
And ah he basically is Roger Douglas in this campaign.

71
00:05:31,921 --> 00:05:34,602
um So this is kind of my...

72
00:05:35,411 --> 00:05:38,485
to him I guess even though he would not approve of this work.

73
00:05:38,485 --> 00:05:40,539
um

74
00:05:40,539 --> 00:05:45,091
appreciate it as Roger Douglas doesn't get a super great light in the...

75
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No.

76
00:05:46,415 --> 00:05:48,118
Well, it's a tribute anyways.

77
00:05:50,803 --> 00:05:52,664
That's good, that's good.

78
00:05:54,225 --> 00:06:04,893
Yeah, but that's kind of where the intersection kind of happened was trying to think
about, um you know, that thinking of, you know, so many, you know, terrible mass violent

79
00:06:04,893 --> 00:06:07,915
things happen in the United States, at least right now.

80
00:06:07,915 --> 00:06:10,357
And um I definitely can't remember them all.

81
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So.

82
00:06:11,115 --> 00:06:20,645
that's what I was gonna say just to that comment is that it, that's what it struck me as
is like this idea that we have so many things coming at us at once.

83
00:06:20,645 --> 00:06:23,888
And then, uh yeah, yeah.

84
00:06:23,888 --> 00:06:30,245
This idea that like the mytho stuff or the weird stuff is just a reflection of the awful
things that we deal with every day.

85
00:06:30,245 --> 00:06:32,177
It really struck me with that.

86
00:06:32,177 --> 00:06:33,638
So good job on that.

87
00:06:33,694 --> 00:06:34,128
Yeah.

88
00:06:34,128 --> 00:06:34,821
you.

89
00:06:35,982 --> 00:06:43,166
I forgot to send you guys, now you can download it and look at it, which you might think
is fun.

90
00:06:43,259 --> 00:06:44,615
yeah, that'd be great.

91
00:06:45,685 --> 00:06:46,429
drop your link.

92
00:06:46,429 --> 00:06:47,092
interesting.

93
00:06:47,092 --> 00:06:51,469
ah Just to see all the beats.

94
00:06:52,450 --> 00:06:57,823
Yeah, I am kind of interested in some of those things potentially.

95
00:06:58,487 --> 00:06:59,994
I feel like there's a lot of.

96
00:06:59,994 --> 00:07:02,973
to even understand just the corners that we didn't look at.

97
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:03,424
Yeah.

98
00:07:03,424 --> 00:07:06,016
guys covered a lot of ground.

99
00:07:06,016 --> 00:07:13,221
um I think there's a very scant handful of things you guys didn't do.

100
00:07:13,221 --> 00:07:26,970
um I think the only clue I worked on that you guys didn't follow up on was you never
translated the chant because you hated the chant and avoided the chant at all costs.

101
00:07:27,495 --> 00:07:37,129
I think that may have been because I saw the geometric shapes and I was like don't tell me
this I don't want to know it because I get the sense that if I see the shapes and then I

102
00:07:37,129 --> 00:07:40,730
hear the chant I'm gonna turn into a worm god.

103
00:07:40,730 --> 00:07:44,852
Okay oh yeah.

104
00:07:44,852 --> 00:07:45,843
For sure.

105
00:07:45,843 --> 00:07:48,421
think for Moll it's because he started with 40 sanity.

106
00:07:48,421 --> 00:07:52,656
So it wasn't exactly the best starting, but it was actually 30 technically.

107
00:07:52,656 --> 00:08:01,629
thought narratively that was like one of the most fun components was just like knowing
that he was the powder keg that we had to kind of like work around because also like we

108
00:08:01,629 --> 00:08:03,281
did depend on you for an awful lot.

109
00:08:03,281 --> 00:08:06,946
em Yeah.

110
00:08:06,946 --> 00:08:07,809
em

111
00:08:07,809 --> 00:08:08,419
ahead, Mack, bye.

112
00:08:08,419 --> 00:08:09,639
Or Jordan.

113
00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:10,400
I'm gonna.

114
00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:11,050
Yeah, yeah, right.

115
00:08:11,050 --> 00:08:12,241
That's just me now.

116
00:08:12,241 --> 00:08:17,363
I honestly had to work really hard not to ask my characters or my questions in character
here, too.

117
00:08:17,363 --> 00:08:22,425
If there's anything else about that other topic, I was just going to launch into a trio of
questions.

118
00:08:22,425 --> 00:08:32,910
um So I do have to roll relatively soon, but I had three questions that are all kind of
centered around the um the big bad lady in the center of this.

119
00:08:32,910 --> 00:08:39,013
um So I'm curious, first and foremost, how how Mother Hydra chose her victims?

120
00:08:40,298 --> 00:09:00,237
Yes, so that is basically reaching out to people who were already kind of susceptible to
this kind of on-the-short voice in your ear um telling you again and again and again for

121
00:09:00,237 --> 00:09:05,972
ages to do terrible things until eventually just kind of broke you down.

122
00:09:08,290 --> 00:09:10,871
Yeah, enough sleepless nights.

123
00:09:11,113 --> 00:09:14,757
If your willpower hits zero, you become Mother Hydra's killer.

124
00:09:14,757 --> 00:09:21,724
I don't remember if we actually wrote that in or if that's just how I'm running it.

125
00:09:22,365 --> 00:09:23,136
Okay, yeah.

126
00:09:23,136 --> 00:09:25,048
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

127
00:09:25,048 --> 00:09:27,030
Because it's maybe mean.

128
00:09:27,104 --> 00:09:27,995
Hmm.

129
00:09:28,657 --> 00:09:37,726
Yeah, so some of the killers are definitely um sympathetic, but some of them are also
just, you know, they did not need a lot of encouragement.

130
00:09:37,726 --> 00:09:48,197
Which that's a pretty cool underlying like mirror of the whole like intrusive thoughts
like I can't you know it's like I don't want to do this but like my brain like why do I

131
00:09:48,197 --> 00:09:53,499
keep having this thought and then eventually it becomes a plague and yeah but anyway keep
going Jordan

132
00:09:53,499 --> 00:09:56,044
Yeah, I'm writing down comments.

133
00:09:56,789 --> 00:09:57,209
Yeah.

134
00:09:57,209 --> 00:09:59,161
a groove like a wheelbarrow.

135
00:09:59,161 --> 00:10:04,370
I'm writing down some comments cause Jordan, I want you to get your questions, but this is
like, there's a couple things about.

136
00:10:05,211 --> 00:10:06,212
Yeah, for sure.

137
00:10:06,212 --> 00:10:09,736
Believe me, I would not have three questions if I had more time, I would have many more.

138
00:10:09,736 --> 00:10:12,379
um yeah, what?

139
00:10:12,540 --> 00:10:13,781
Yeah, yeah.

140
00:10:13,781 --> 00:10:25,634
What, from like a game timeline perspective, what if we pussyfooted around the Bon Marché
and we didn't get there until Anthony Hayden's timeline progressed?

141
00:10:26,094 --> 00:10:36,082
So, January 2nd, a woman with a bomb vest detonates it on the ferry to Bainbridge Island.

142
00:10:36,082 --> 00:10:55,310
um If that happens and you do nothing about it, you could theoretically fuck around for
another 66 days before another mass casualty event, but Mother Hydra is like

143
00:10:55,310 --> 00:11:01,791
growing pretty slowly down in that basement actually.

144
00:11:01,791 --> 00:11:04,235
I don't think there's an exponential growth here at all.

145
00:11:04,235 --> 00:11:22,104
um The killings happen in accelerating and decelerating waves and I think you could
potentially leave Hydra in that basement for years and just let her kill...

146
00:11:22,830 --> 00:11:24,326
I don't know.

147
00:11:24,326 --> 00:11:25,206
Ten...

148
00:11:25,208 --> 00:11:32,005
five, 10 people every couple of months and it will never resolve itself.

149
00:11:32,005 --> 00:11:42,072
It will expand in area, but it won't, and it might expand in like consequences, like, I
don't know, airliners start going down or something.

150
00:11:42,414 --> 00:11:46,778
But I think it's all very small.

151
00:11:47,379 --> 00:11:51,077
It's not an apocalypse, you know, it's into.

152
00:11:51,077 --> 00:11:53,318
to become an epicenter, right?

153
00:11:53,318 --> 00:11:58,820
So it's, well, right, but she wouldn't want to be known for that, right?

154
00:11:58,820 --> 00:12:04,299
And so it's escalating, but in a malignant way, not in, like you said, not an exponential
way.

155
00:12:04,299 --> 00:12:05,260
right.

156
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:11,886
And I do think that she wants to be here too.

157
00:12:11,906 --> 00:12:25,398
Like it's an intrusion that this is some way of pulling herself into reality while
obliterating the parts of it that are a threat to her.

158
00:12:26,646 --> 00:12:40,641
Yeah, when you read the text, it's not super spelled out, but there is kind of some
implication that the dimension that she comes from is pretty awful and...

159
00:12:40,641 --> 00:12:46,469
question is what was the inspiration or what did that mean to you, to her, to everything?

160
00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:54,515
Yeah, so this started off as a game based off of the Labyrinth source book.

161
00:12:54,515 --> 00:12:58,677
um So there is, does everyone know that?

162
00:12:58,677 --> 00:12:59,931
um

163
00:12:59,931 --> 00:13:01,351
actually have not read it.

164
00:13:01,484 --> 00:13:02,900
Yes, yes I do.

165
00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:11,815
Okay, well it's not spoilers to say that one of the factions in that game is centered on
the town of Stanton.

166
00:13:12,075 --> 00:13:14,396
And Stanton is just Chelan.

167
00:13:14,396 --> 00:13:19,719
um And I read that and I grew up around or going to Chelan a lot.

168
00:13:19,719 --> 00:13:21,320
And I was like, this is bullshit.

169
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,081
Like, they got all this wrong.

170
00:13:24,081 --> 00:13:32,906
um And so, sorry, I'm trying to remember the question now.

171
00:13:33,165 --> 00:13:40,742
It's really just about Mother Hydra's home plane and what that represented metaphorically
or what it meant to her also.

172
00:13:41,163 --> 00:13:47,878
Yeah, so the main villains from those, uh from that, are very nihilistic in nature.

173
00:13:47,878 --> 00:14:06,763
yeah, ah so drawing on that was kind of the idea of, yeah, a place that is just so
terrible, you feel so terrible, and then breaking into this reality is almost her uh

174
00:14:06,763 --> 00:14:10,646
spreading that uh misery and nihilism and just...

175
00:14:10,646 --> 00:14:12,007
tearing down other people.

176
00:14:12,007 --> 00:14:21,676
um The actual inspiration for it, like the other dimension and everything, I think Patrick
came up with a lot of the stuff that you guys saw.

177
00:14:21,676 --> 00:14:27,752
um I was drawing from uh the short story Hydra by Henry Kuttner.

178
00:14:29,326 --> 00:14:30,621
I should have read that.

179
00:14:31,830 --> 00:14:32,541
It's hard to find.

180
00:14:32,541 --> 00:14:34,496
I could only find an audio version.

181
00:14:34,562 --> 00:14:35,245
Really?

182
00:14:35,245 --> 00:14:36,267
What?

183
00:14:37,274 --> 00:14:38,231
Interesting.

184
00:14:38,231 --> 00:14:45,994
mean, to make it unsearchable in today's terms means that like, you know, your creative
juices are safe, which is, that's pretty fun.

185
00:14:45,994 --> 00:14:51,397
eh Sick.

186
00:14:51,397 --> 00:14:52,977
Thank you so much for entertaining me.

187
00:14:52,977 --> 00:14:54,688
I do got a skedaddle, but thank you guys.

188
00:14:54,688 --> 00:14:56,339
This was phenomenal.

189
00:14:56,807 --> 00:14:58,003
thank you.

190
00:14:58,494 --> 00:15:00,445
It was delight to play with you.

191
00:15:00,445 --> 00:15:01,397
Same, same, same.

192
00:15:01,397 --> 00:15:02,038
Many more times.

193
00:15:02,038 --> 00:15:02,889
Bye.

194
00:15:03,054 --> 00:15:03,897
Thanks.

195
00:15:04,630 --> 00:15:08,238
I also gotta run at 6.30 because I'm also playing this campaign.

196
00:15:08,238 --> 00:15:09,620
I'm trying to wrap it up.

197
00:15:09,657 --> 00:15:10,587
You're good.

198
00:15:10,587 --> 00:15:11,162
Yeah.

199
00:15:11,162 --> 00:15:12,676
lined this right up.

200
00:15:12,676 --> 00:15:15,211
Where's your team?

201
00:15:15,211 --> 00:15:16,723
Are they about to go in?

202
00:15:17,367 --> 00:15:18,973
Are you hoping they are about to go in?

203
00:15:18,973 --> 00:15:22,277
guys experienced the attack on your families.

204
00:15:22,277 --> 00:15:25,182
um They are dealing with that right now.

205
00:15:25,182 --> 00:15:26,231
One of them...

206
00:15:26,231 --> 00:15:27,844
Jimmy's wife.

207
00:15:29,129 --> 00:15:31,795
I, oh, I meant to tell you this.

208
00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:34,161
No, actually Sam did.

209
00:15:34,221 --> 00:15:34,601
will.

210
00:15:34,601 --> 00:15:35,961
No, I did.

211
00:15:35,961 --> 00:15:37,631
And I know I did.

212
00:15:37,631 --> 00:15:38,612
You killed the mood.

213
00:15:38,612 --> 00:15:39,922
I killed my wife.

214
00:15:39,922 --> 00:15:40,592
And I think.

215
00:15:40,592 --> 00:15:44,153
Well, so this is what's interesting is you're like, do you want to do anything?

216
00:15:44,153 --> 00:15:49,465
And we had I've been thinking over this, which I think is a credit to like a good.

217
00:15:49,465 --> 00:15:53,673
No, I think it's a credit to like a good game when you leave and you're like.

218
00:15:53,673 --> 00:15:55,823
shit, I should have done this differently.

219
00:15:55,844 --> 00:15:59,335
And you there's one point where like, what do you want to do?

220
00:15:59,335 --> 00:16:02,735
Because essentially, I'm like playing my wife as like a proxy.

221
00:16:02,735 --> 00:16:04,416
And I'm like, I should have just told her to run.

222
00:16:04,416 --> 00:16:06,016
And we even talked about it before.

223
00:16:06,016 --> 00:16:07,757
But I got invested in the situation.

224
00:16:07,757 --> 00:16:08,867
And I didn't.

225
00:16:08,867 --> 00:16:11,428
And one, like, that's not what I should have done.

226
00:16:11,428 --> 00:16:17,249
And especially at playing like a character with a search and rescue kind of crisis
management background.

227
00:16:17,249 --> 00:16:18,990
That's what I should have done.

228
00:16:19,123 --> 00:16:20,150
But

229
00:16:20,506 --> 00:16:29,170
even like the best of the best of like crisis management, like emergency response people,
they're gonna make bad fucking calls when it's their family involved, which is why as a

230
00:16:29,170 --> 00:16:32,571
doctor, when people are like, my family, they're like, hey, what should I do?

231
00:16:32,571 --> 00:16:39,194
And I'm like, I'll give you some general advice, but I don't wanna be your doctor, cause I
have blind spots when it comes to my family.

232
00:16:39,194 --> 00:16:44,406
I should have told her to run and I didn't and she died because I didn't tell her to run.

233
00:16:44,406 --> 00:16:49,798
I mean, maybe she would have died anyway, but running would have been the smart choice and
I didn't make that call.

234
00:16:49,982 --> 00:16:54,038
Um, and that's, that's on me and realistic.

235
00:16:54,038 --> 00:16:56,761
I was aghast.

236
00:16:57,382 --> 00:17:00,083
I was not trying to kill your bond.

237
00:17:00,244 --> 00:17:02,786
I was actively trying not to.

238
00:17:03,106 --> 00:17:06,509
And you guys kept calling for rolls.

239
00:17:06,509 --> 00:17:10,272
You're like, okay, can she roll to sneak away?

240
00:17:10,272 --> 00:17:12,633
I'm like, yeah, I guess.

241
00:17:12,633 --> 00:17:14,615
She's not gonna succeed and then she'd bomb it.

242
00:17:14,615 --> 00:17:17,417
And can I roll to take the knife from him?

243
00:17:17,417 --> 00:17:19,503
It's like, yeah, sure.

244
00:17:19,503 --> 00:17:20,534
You

245
00:17:20,534 --> 00:17:25,036
And then you like crit failed twice in a row, like trying to run.

246
00:17:25,036 --> 00:17:27,030
I'm like, yeah, she's dead.

247
00:17:27,030 --> 00:17:28,954
I'm so sorry.

248
00:17:29,094 --> 00:17:30,121
And I think even in...

249
00:17:30,121 --> 00:17:36,776
time I should just tell you instead of rolling anything my wife gets away safely And I
should just say that

250
00:17:36,776 --> 00:17:39,768
It was supposed to make you nervous and be like, get out of there, honey.

251
00:17:39,768 --> 00:17:42,042
Get out of there and call the police.

252
00:17:42,042 --> 00:17:47,399
Yeah, Patrick, I watched this all go down as somebody who has played with Jimmy now for a
third of my life.

253
00:17:47,399 --> 00:17:53,117
And I was like, A, don't do that because he's going to be like, I'll roll this and do that
and do this.

254
00:17:53,117 --> 00:17:56,061
And then when you called on me, I was like, second mistake.

255
00:17:56,061 --> 00:17:59,796
was like, you are second strike here to play the.

256
00:18:01,225 --> 00:18:02,410
it's intense.

257
00:18:02,418 --> 00:18:04,308
of like permission to do thicc.

258
00:18:04,308 --> 00:18:04,888
I don't know.

259
00:18:04,888 --> 00:18:16,122
I I think like as a player I want to like and you're great as a handler and so I don't
want to I've played games that go badly where players don't understand what's happening

260
00:18:16,122 --> 00:18:23,684
and they're like I do that you know you're playing a D &D game and the wizards like I cast
kill all the enemies and you're like that's not a thing

261
00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:26,532
Yeah, you gotta respect the fiction.

262
00:18:26,532 --> 00:18:34,984
uh Sam, can you give Hank here a preview of the voice you did for Morrison's wife?

263
00:18:36,107 --> 00:18:38,305
In what I believe is the most...

264
00:18:38,305 --> 00:18:39,651
like The Simpsons.

265
00:18:39,651 --> 00:18:41,518
Yeah, what was your first name?

266
00:18:41,683 --> 00:18:43,700
What was Agent Morrison's first name?

267
00:18:44,210 --> 00:18:46,556
well, it was his name is chase Brown.

268
00:18:46,556 --> 00:18:47,519
That's his real name

269
00:18:47,519 --> 00:18:50,359
like, oh, Jace, Jace!

270
00:18:51,179 --> 00:18:55,479
I didn't know we were going for a serious moment, so I went real fucked up on it.

271
00:18:55,479 --> 00:18:59,119
And then it landed, but didn't land.

272
00:18:59,419 --> 00:19:00,359
Yeah.

273
00:19:00,679 --> 00:19:04,319
And she was like, oh no, oh no!

274
00:19:05,679 --> 00:19:06,679
Yep.

275
00:19:07,919 --> 00:19:09,419
Yeah, I did.

276
00:19:10,259 --> 00:19:12,885
Yeah, I really hit the tone perfectly.

277
00:19:12,885 --> 00:19:13,886
mean, it was great.

278
00:19:13,886 --> 00:19:24,832
Like I, you know, I, I think that one of the things that makes Delta Green good, or one of
the things that I think we all appreciate about Delta Green, Call of Cthulhu, as opposed

279
00:19:24,832 --> 00:19:30,204
to D &D or other systems is like people you care about die.

280
00:19:30,345 --> 00:19:32,606
Like it's, that's a thing.

281
00:19:32,606 --> 00:19:37,459
And I think that's some of the catharsis to like writing these things and playing them out
as people.

282
00:19:37,459 --> 00:19:40,400
It's like, there's something real about this or at least

283
00:19:40,410 --> 00:19:42,283
mirroring reality.

284
00:19:42,447 --> 00:19:47,632
And I do feel attacking or going after bonds is a really good uh thing.

285
00:19:47,632 --> 00:19:52,050
It's something that doesn't get done a lot, I think, em but it's a very good,

286
00:19:52,050 --> 00:19:58,176
made me want to run this scenario, is in Home Sweet Home, you get two calls.

287
00:19:58,176 --> 00:20:01,419
The first is like a shooting threat.

288
00:20:01,419 --> 00:20:05,202
And the second is, I'm outside of your bond's house.

289
00:20:05,202 --> 00:20:07,767
In five minutes, I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna kill them.

290
00:20:07,767 --> 00:20:09,896
I'm like, holy shit, that's so cool.

291
00:20:09,935 --> 00:20:18,301
Cause if I think back to like the published scenarios, there's probably only, there's like
one I can think about that does that um in any form.

292
00:20:18,301 --> 00:20:20,002
And it's a lot more magical.

293
00:20:20,002 --> 00:20:20,942
You know what I mean?

294
00:20:20,942 --> 00:20:23,434
At least that's okay.

295
00:20:23,434 --> 00:20:27,066
I won't say anything, but it just in general is a lot, this was a lot more grounded.

296
00:20:27,066 --> 00:20:27,807
Do you know I mean?

297
00:20:27,807 --> 00:20:34,541
And I feel like fucking with bonds in a grounded manner is really good because when it
becomes this whole like,

298
00:20:34,607 --> 00:20:38,329
uh, you know, some monster, yeah, like shoots a laser or something.

299
00:20:38,329 --> 00:20:39,689
Then it's like, yeah, this sucks.

300
00:20:39,689 --> 00:20:43,351
But like, but when it's like something that you can actually see, it just drives home.

301
00:20:43,351 --> 00:20:46,843
It's like it forces a good scene between you and your bond.

302
00:20:46,843 --> 00:20:55,547
And even somebody who maybe doesn't want to do the acting part, who isn't as comfortable,
um, not that we did any acting there, but like who's less comfortable, you know, role

303
00:20:55,547 --> 00:20:55,837
playing out.

304
00:20:55,837 --> 00:20:57,718
It still kind of forces some of that.

305
00:20:58,118 --> 00:20:58,942
Yeah, it's.

306
00:20:58,942 --> 00:20:59,671
wild.

307
00:20:59,671 --> 00:21:00,492
Yeah.

308
00:21:00,492 --> 00:21:01,132
Yeah.

309
00:21:01,132 --> 00:21:03,733
I will say like two quick thoughts on that one.

310
00:21:04,013 --> 00:21:10,256
I feel like for a lot of our games and I think for a lot of people's games, bonds just
become like a sanity sink.

311
00:21:10,517 --> 00:21:14,349
And yeah, and yeah, it's not enjoyable.

312
00:21:14,349 --> 00:21:18,251
I think this forced bonds to be what I think bonds should be.

313
00:21:18,251 --> 00:21:22,754
And especially because there was a point afterward where you're like, do you guys want to
project on your bonds?

314
00:21:22,754 --> 00:21:24,565
And I was like, well, one of mine's dead.

315
00:21:24,565 --> 00:21:26,486
And you're like, yeah, shit.

316
00:21:26,486 --> 00:21:27,292
So.

317
00:21:27,292 --> 00:21:29,584
You know, it, becomes also like a reminder.

318
00:21:29,584 --> 00:21:40,636
Um, so I just loved, I think it was, I like that use of bonds as like a weak point more
than I like bonds being used as a San Los sink.

319
00:21:40,636 --> 00:21:42,048
Um, and then

320
00:21:42,048 --> 00:21:47,321
better as like a narrative device that you that the player has given the DM I think

321
00:21:47,321 --> 00:21:53,854
And then also Hank, when you said, Hank, when you said you have to leave at six 30, did
you mean like in three minutes?

322
00:21:54,923 --> 00:22:04,698
in a few minutes that I'm joining a discord call so I'm sure it'll take I'm sure it'll
take five minutes for everyone to actually show up 15 minutes to actually get playing

323
00:22:04,698 --> 00:22:05,006
Yeah.

324
00:22:05,006 --> 00:22:07,381
All right, Nick, do you got any questions?

325
00:22:08,441 --> 00:22:11,361
Yeah, I mean, I have more than I can ask.

326
00:22:11,361 --> 00:22:17,021
I would say to distill it down, I, sorry I wrote it down.

327
00:22:17,021 --> 00:22:19,569
Whoops, I had like four, so.

328
00:22:19,569 --> 00:22:21,964
Happy to answer questions in Discord as well.

329
00:22:21,964 --> 00:22:22,787
also fine.

330
00:22:22,787 --> 00:22:24,763
And I'll stick around for a couple minutes.

331
00:22:24,763 --> 00:22:27,963
Do you have anything specifically for Hank, who wrote?

332
00:22:27,963 --> 00:22:28,663
yeah.

333
00:22:28,663 --> 00:22:33,790
So Hank, um you you talked about the trauma that led up to writing this.

334
00:22:33,790 --> 00:22:36,643
uh How long did it take to write?

335
00:22:36,643 --> 00:22:39,627
And then how did Patrick interface with you?

336
00:22:39,627 --> 00:22:40,559
Was it mostly you?

337
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:43,112
Was it both of you?

338
00:22:43,112 --> 00:22:45,825
What was the process like behind it?

339
00:22:46,998 --> 00:22:56,366
I this over kind of like the week of Christmas and I want to say I wrote the first draft
in

340
00:22:57,974 --> 00:23:00,914
maybe even 2022.

341
00:23:02,134 --> 00:23:05,474
And that went nowhere and it sat there for a year.

342
00:23:05,474 --> 00:23:10,594
And then I rewrote it after thinking about it for a year.

343
00:23:11,034 --> 00:23:18,554
And Patrick randomly responded when I shared it in the reanimators discord like, yeah, I'd
run this.

344
00:23:18,554 --> 00:23:20,974
And then I learned that he was running it.

345
00:23:21,254 --> 00:23:26,534
And just having one person actually like run something that...

346
00:23:27,752 --> 00:23:40,453
I was like working on basically encouraged me to actually take it seriously and try to
push it extremely, extremely hard towards making it look like a finished product.

347
00:23:40,453 --> 00:23:52,543
And I couldn't have done that without Patrick, who's also offering a bunch of, you know,
great feedback and uh additional writing even, I would say, and just great editing all

348
00:23:52,543 --> 00:23:55,896
around and providing scans of props.

349
00:23:55,896 --> 00:23:56,706
So

350
00:23:57,262 --> 00:24:02,285
I think it is, think truly like Patrick kind of got it to the finish line.

351
00:24:02,285 --> 00:24:03,966
Awesome, that's great.

352
00:24:05,968 --> 00:24:08,169
Yeah, yeah, I love it.

353
00:24:08,169 --> 00:24:10,330
And I'm excited to read it look at the layout and stuff.

354
00:24:10,330 --> 00:24:11,141
I haven't opened it yet.

355
00:24:11,141 --> 00:24:18,696
But um yeah, I have a last question, unless somebody else has a question for Hank.

356
00:24:20,494 --> 00:24:22,485
maybe one other thing, so go for it, Nick.

357
00:24:22,485 --> 00:24:25,869
Well, I just want to say, are you writing anything like now?

358
00:24:25,869 --> 00:24:27,561
Like, are you going to release anything soon?

359
00:24:27,561 --> 00:24:29,192
Like what's coming up?

360
00:24:30,210 --> 00:24:45,777
Yeah, so I'm going to try to do a like re layout version of this for kind of a Final draft
and especially like incorporating any feedback that you guys have like very seriously um

361
00:24:45,777 --> 00:24:55,391
So now that it's actually been and Just keep learning them where people keep playtesting
this and says like my gosh, like we can actually do something here um Right now I'm

362
00:24:55,391 --> 00:24:58,262
writing a Hawaii uh

363
00:24:58,262 --> 00:25:03,154
kind of one shot for Delta Green uh for the Night of the Opera contest.

364
00:25:03,154 --> 00:25:06,666
I'm trying to finish a Puerto Rico scenario.

365
00:25:06,666 --> 00:25:11,248
I have family from both places, trying to touch on that.

366
00:25:11,248 --> 00:25:18,230
then I would like to, the other campaign idea I actually have would be a Cthulhu campaign
in the modern day.

367
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:26,644
um And, because I feel like no one has really given a good shot at uh mirroring the three
acts of

368
00:25:26,644 --> 00:25:31,838
Yeah, the three acts of the Call of Cthulhu into a Delta Green campaign.

369
00:25:31,838 --> 00:25:34,644
And then after that, I hope to never write for this game again.

370
00:25:35,130 --> 00:25:36,882
move to a different game yeah

371
00:25:37,295 --> 00:25:41,140
You just wrote something for, um, what's that system called?

372
00:25:41,799 --> 00:25:42,741
Arkham Herald.

373
00:25:42,741 --> 00:25:50,751
It's an upcoming system for uh like, Brindlewood Bay, if you know that card from
Brindlewood.

374
00:25:50,751 --> 00:26:01,333
So they're doing a game where you play as journalists in the 70s investigating Cthulhu
mythos stories basically as reporters.

375
00:26:01,657 --> 00:26:02,032
That's cool.

376
00:26:02,032 --> 00:26:09,818
Yeah, I may have been talking with you on Discord actually, uh and maybe 9mm someplace
about that, because that sounds very familiar.

377
00:26:09,818 --> 00:26:11,750
Yeah, hey!

378
00:26:12,574 --> 00:26:13,692
How's it going?

379
00:26:13,692 --> 00:26:14,833
Small world.

380
00:26:15,092 --> 00:26:19,022
Yeah, I was like, I was like, yeah, I I this person enjoys it.

381
00:26:19,044 --> 00:26:19,884
Yeah.

382
00:26:21,267 --> 00:26:22,488
That's so funny.

383
00:26:22,488 --> 00:26:26,773
Yeah, that was going to be my question is what you're doing next with it.

384
00:26:26,773 --> 00:26:32,300
um I guess where you're.

385
00:26:34,340 --> 00:26:48,330
Where things are, how'd you feel about doing this from a taking something of yourself that
is so personal and kind of, um again, I mean, it sounds lame kind of, but like drama,

386
00:26:48,330 --> 00:26:55,825
which I totally get and turning it into that, was that cathartic for you or does it make
you not want to run it again, do something like this again?

387
00:26:55,825 --> 00:27:04,016
Does it make you want to do something more surface level or more like involved in like the
Delta green, like reading through the labyrinth and running something?

388
00:27:04,016 --> 00:27:11,796
Cause I could kind of see either way, especially with it being put out there and people
like playing through it, you know?

389
00:27:12,296 --> 00:27:13,992
So I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

390
00:27:14,944 --> 00:27:22,942
I know, guess, I don't feel any, um, like, self, um...

391
00:27:24,916 --> 00:27:28,750
I don't feel any hesitation about that just because it feels like, um

392
00:27:32,246 --> 00:27:35,098
I know, it felt like important to share in some sense.

393
00:27:35,098 --> 00:27:36,509
Like this was, uh...

394
00:27:36,509 --> 00:27:42,969
I just was a part of me and it was, uh...

395
00:27:42,969 --> 00:27:47,936
I'm always, like as a poorer writer, trying to think of like, okay, well what am I scared
of?

396
00:27:47,936 --> 00:27:49,516
What am I scared of?

397
00:27:49,678 --> 00:27:54,658
Yeah, we had that conversation and you're like, what are you afraid of?

398
00:27:54,658 --> 00:27:55,658
I'm like the ocean.

399
00:27:55,658 --> 00:27:56,857
Fuck the ocean.

400
00:27:56,857 --> 00:27:57,745
you

401
00:27:58,463 --> 00:28:01,003
Yeah, same.

402
00:28:01,003 --> 00:28:02,193
I feel that.

403
00:28:02,193 --> 00:28:03,594
that's interesting to me.

404
00:28:03,594 --> 00:28:15,433
Would you consider, I haven't read through it obviously, would you consider adding any
part about your own personal, what the horror means for you kind of, even if it's somewhat

405
00:28:15,433 --> 00:28:16,284
small?

406
00:28:16,284 --> 00:28:25,131
The reason I ask that is that I know when I run things, it's helpful for me to get into
the head space of what the writer was doing when they wrote it for like where the horror

407
00:28:25,131 --> 00:28:25,602
came from.

408
00:28:25,602 --> 00:28:27,964
Cause you could pick up on a lot of different things from this.

409
00:28:27,964 --> 00:28:29,435
You could pick up on memory loss.

410
00:28:29,435 --> 00:28:31,150
You could pick up on mass shooting.

411
00:28:31,150 --> 00:28:38,387
You could pick up on, I mean, there's probably even ways you could go about this with it
becomes more of like the governmental conspiracy side of things, you know?

412
00:28:38,387 --> 00:28:46,405
um But, you know, to me, I like hearing those things because even if it's small, it gives
me that sense of like, this is what they were going for.

413
00:28:46,405 --> 00:28:47,875
These are the themes.

414
00:28:47,888 --> 00:28:49,541
Yeah, that was in the first draft.

415
00:28:49,541 --> 00:28:51,608
I hope to include that in the final draft.

416
00:28:51,608 --> 00:28:52,542
Yeah, you should.

417
00:28:52,542 --> 00:28:53,326
love that.

418
00:28:53,326 --> 00:29:00,628
do like kind of a jump off to that question, which is one I've been thinking for a second,
you can totally answer this on Discord if you need to for time.

419
00:29:01,229 --> 00:29:05,030
Is there something that you would hope the players would get out of it?

420
00:29:05,030 --> 00:29:13,992
Not just like, I had a good time, but like on Sam's note, like themes, it's like, cause we
talk about themes a lot when we're working on stuff.

421
00:29:13,992 --> 00:29:21,814
And it's like, if you wanted someone to take away something from this as like a, sticks
with me, what would that be?

422
00:29:22,192 --> 00:29:26,309
And that's a heavy question, so don't feel like you have to answer that now.

423
00:29:28,244 --> 00:29:40,006
Yeah, no, I I think I know exactly what that is and I think what I'm going to plan for my
own group Is that you know in epilogues, you know, let's say they stopped the bad guy

424
00:29:40,006 --> 00:29:45,774
Later on they'll just see a another mass shooting on TV not cause my mother hydra or
anything.

425
00:29:45,774 --> 00:29:48,414
It's just still happening

426
00:29:48,452 --> 00:29:52,568
Right, yeah, that's excellent.

427
00:29:52,568 --> 00:29:55,668
the sign into you gives you early onset dementia.

428
00:29:55,751 --> 00:29:58,376
Oh yeah, no that would- that's the other thing.

429
00:29:58,376 --> 00:30:04,205
One of my players has done that and so their ending is going to be finding sticky notes
around their house.

430
00:30:04,205 --> 00:30:06,189
Um, much like Roger.

431
00:30:06,189 --> 00:30:08,812
Oh no!

432
00:30:09,177 --> 00:30:10,194
yeah, we were.

433
00:30:10,194 --> 00:30:13,284
that downside warning we wouldn't have, but...

434
00:30:13,454 --> 00:30:16,089
Uh, there's no warning.

435
00:30:16,089 --> 00:30:18,217
That's a trap.

436
00:30:18,217 --> 00:30:19,317
so.

437
00:30:20,233 --> 00:30:21,104
Yeah.

438
00:30:21,393 --> 00:30:29,316
So just very briefly, that is what you just said is really the idea of, how do I put this
together?

439
00:30:29,316 --> 00:30:39,062
The idea that you have uh these mass shootings that are happening and you almost have
something that comes in and alleviates you of that pain of the mass shootings of mass

440
00:30:39,062 --> 00:30:40,503
casualties of violence.

441
00:30:40,503 --> 00:30:44,905
And then you take it away only for people to realize that,

442
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:47,442
They didn't change the actual real world, right?

443
00:30:47,442 --> 00:30:49,565
That just changed that we were missing out on stuff.

444
00:30:49,565 --> 00:30:58,298
In some ways, it's almost a worse world for people that Mother Hydra is not there because
you are seeing all of these terrible things.

445
00:30:58,298 --> 00:30:59,740
Maybe you forget all of that stuff.

446
00:30:59,740 --> 00:31:01,372
Maybe you feel more safe, kind of.

447
00:31:01,372 --> 00:31:01,838
uh

448
00:31:01,838 --> 00:31:15,358
of the questions or comments I wrote down is like population health standpoint question
mark at what level is like the therapeutic index of like removing mother Hydra versus like

449
00:31:15,358 --> 00:31:22,358
the damage humans are doing by their own mass shootings because it's like I mean, I don't
remember the number.

450
00:31:22,358 --> 00:31:26,120
I think you said a number earlier, Patrick, but you're like, I don't know.

451
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:35,697
five to 10 people a year and then maybe like once every year or two there's like 35, 50
people who die in like a mass casualty event and I'm like that's pretty well within the

452
00:31:35,697 --> 00:31:37,956
statistical norms so like

453
00:31:37,956 --> 00:31:38,601
yeah.

454
00:31:38,616 --> 00:31:39,426
Yeah.

455
00:31:40,068 --> 00:31:44,994
But she's only hiding her own associations.

456
00:31:44,994 --> 00:31:47,077
She's not hiding all of them.

457
00:31:47,077 --> 00:31:54,546
She's only hiding things that she personally influenced that maybe wouldn't have happened
otherwise.

458
00:31:55,442 --> 00:32:05,336
But still, and not to keep you, Hank, you can totally sit down, but still, there is
something to be said that if she is preventing those things from people from remembering

459
00:32:05,336 --> 00:32:12,389
them and feeling that pain, and we're not doing anything to stop mass casualties, we're
not doing anything as a society to fix this.

460
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:15,191
then your next step is like, well then forget about it.

461
00:32:15,191 --> 00:32:19,365
Like if you can just forget about these things, and cause we're not gonna fix them, right?

462
00:32:19,365 --> 00:32:23,358
As a society, we've said we accept gun violence, we accept mass casualties.

463
00:32:23,358 --> 00:32:26,140
So really in some way, thoughts and prayers, right?

464
00:32:26,140 --> 00:32:26,995
And this is like.

465
00:32:26,995 --> 00:32:30,034
in the context of therapeutic index.

466
00:32:30,735 --> 00:32:31,547
Yeah, no, it is.

467
00:32:31,547 --> 00:32:33,754
It's like almost like a population health.

468
00:32:33,754 --> 00:32:34,175
Yeah.

469
00:32:34,175 --> 00:32:35,657
So sorry.

470
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,081
Yeah.

471
00:32:38,025 --> 00:32:38,906
Yeah.

472
00:32:39,148 --> 00:32:39,587
Yeah.

473
00:32:39,587 --> 00:32:43,499
cool to have that kind of analysis, I guess.

474
00:32:43,499 --> 00:32:45,777
m

475
00:32:45,777 --> 00:32:52,854
a lot of stuff with that because I think a lot of the ways that you're talking about the
hydropaying on praying on people who are susceptible to impulsivity, when you get

476
00:32:52,854 --> 00:32:55,006
dementia, you end up being more impulsive.

477
00:32:55,006 --> 00:33:05,224
There's these whole there's a whole thing that you tapped tapped into with this that is
from our medical from Jimmy Nye's medical and Nick from your the medical kind of

478
00:33:05,224 --> 00:33:06,065
therapeutic mindset.

479
00:33:06,065 --> 00:33:08,497
You can like see those things occurring.

480
00:33:08,497 --> 00:33:13,411
And so it's like it makes sense to me that when you say it's somebody who's impulsive.

481
00:33:13,411 --> 00:33:18,562
is more likely to get this or that it's kind of that, because that is what you see with
people who are losing memory anyways.

482
00:33:18,562 --> 00:33:21,149
It's like a self-perpetuating thing.

483
00:33:21,149 --> 00:33:26,718
like inhibitory stuff and it manifests in very specific ways.

484
00:33:26,958 --> 00:33:40,011
Speaking of that, from the doctor uh point of view, from the therapist point of view, I
would love some notes from all of you on like versimilitude because one of the first

485
00:33:40,011 --> 00:33:45,147
things that happened is I was like, yeah, he looks like he's shaky.

486
00:33:45,147 --> 00:33:47,148
And you started asking me about symptoms.

487
00:33:47,148 --> 00:33:50,732
I was like, oh shit, I'm like right out of my depth.

488
00:33:51,163 --> 00:33:55,701
I saw your eyes get wide and I was like, eh how much can I do with this right now?

489
00:33:55,701 --> 00:34:00,368
I was like, I know him at least well enough that I could just keep asking some fucking
questions here, so.

490
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:00,919
Yeah.

491
00:34:00,919 --> 00:34:02,479
That's how you break any handler.

492
00:34:02,479 --> 00:34:03,420
Yeah, that's right, right?

493
00:34:03,420 --> 00:34:06,906
You're like, choose my thing that I know a lot about and I'm going to force it on you.

494
00:34:06,906 --> 00:34:10,020
Yeah, so fuck you.

495
00:34:10,020 --> 00:34:11,141
asshole.

496
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:12,998
not actual dementia.

497
00:34:12,998 --> 00:34:13,940
Yeah

498
00:34:13,940 --> 00:34:14,497
Yeah.

499
00:34:14,497 --> 00:34:16,015
We looked at his brain scans.

500
00:34:16,015 --> 00:34:17,008
They're normal.

501
00:34:17,008 --> 00:34:18,759
It's hypergeometric dementia.

502
00:34:18,759 --> 00:34:21,958
a Patrick original, think that improves the clue.

503
00:34:22,733 --> 00:34:23,603
It was cool, yeah.

504
00:34:23,603 --> 00:34:24,946
yeah, yeah, for sure.

505
00:34:24,946 --> 00:34:26,208
Yes, and we will do that.

506
00:34:26,208 --> 00:34:33,696
We should maybe have like just a discussion at some point, because I have, there's a lot
of things I think that I've got Radin-Loran in my brain, so.

507
00:34:33,696 --> 00:34:34,194
Mm-hmm.

508
00:34:34,194 --> 00:34:35,796
will also say, I...

509
00:34:36,338 --> 00:34:45,651
We sometimes on our show and in our games get bogged down in the medical stuff, and I feel
like at some point just being like, fuck you, I'm the handler and this is hypergeometry.

510
00:34:46,193 --> 00:34:47,039
Eat a dick.

511
00:34:47,039 --> 00:34:50,014
what we did, but that's only because I didn't know enough about medicine.

512
00:34:50,014 --> 00:34:51,774
And that's, I love that.

513
00:34:51,774 --> 00:34:57,294
like, yeah, no, there, yeah.

514
00:34:57,294 --> 00:34:59,034
And too many details.

515
00:34:59,114 --> 00:35:10,434
I, this is a tangent, been rereading the Dune series and there's an entry, like an intro
quote about like specialist will just like kill something with arguing over minutiae.

516
00:35:10,434 --> 00:35:13,474
And it's, like, that's, that's us.

517
00:35:14,154 --> 00:35:15,079
So.

518
00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:19,727
As doctors, I hope you appreciated trying to make guns scary in this game.

519
00:35:19,727 --> 00:35:22,619
Yes, yeah, yes, no, it is.

520
00:35:22,619 --> 00:35:27,733
the fear of, uh it's guns and it's also the idea of random violence.

521
00:35:27,733 --> 00:35:34,028
It's something that makes you, yes, it is scary to have these random acts of violence.

522
00:35:34,028 --> 00:35:46,627
And I think it's a very terrifying idea to me to think about the loss of memory, uh
specifically in regards to that, in regards to mass and how it affects, yeah.

523
00:35:46,627 --> 00:35:48,689
to just like function on a basic level.

524
00:35:48,689 --> 00:35:55,298
And also it was helped out by Magpie just like spraying everyone with gunfire.

525
00:35:55,759 --> 00:35:58,172
I thought we might all just dive in in there.

526
00:35:59,374 --> 00:36:02,605
That was a very close thing to ending the game.

527
00:36:02,605 --> 00:36:07,197
That could have, yeah, stopped the game.

528
00:36:07,197 --> 00:36:15,581
uh Somebody with a semi-automatic, a fully automatic SMG uh got fight and just unloaded on
the room.

529
00:36:15,581 --> 00:36:27,663
uh And uh I gave him a minus 20 for like spraying and that minus 20 was the difference
between hitting and not hitting.

530
00:36:27,663 --> 00:36:33,499
I also want to call out one thing about Patrick that you did that was very good with that.

531
00:36:33,499 --> 00:36:45,430
When you had, um what's his face, kill that officer, just straight up shoot him, even
though it was just like a miscommunication between our group, that was excellent.

532
00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:52,226
Because what that drove home was the idea that like, we weren't fucking, like, and
normally in our games we fuck around a whole lot.

533
00:36:52,226 --> 00:36:53,029
And so like,

534
00:36:53,029 --> 00:36:58,772
this was not as much of a fuck around game, but still we were like kind of fucking around
like, what do we do about this?

535
00:36:58,812 --> 00:37:02,541
And then you were just like pop and killed somebody and like exploded their head.

536
00:37:02,541 --> 00:37:03,655
And I was like, this is great.

537
00:37:03,655 --> 00:37:07,237
Like that is, it was a, it changed the tenor of things.

538
00:37:07,237 --> 00:37:11,739
And I think you kind of maybe felt bad cause you didn't, you thought maybe you
misunderstood us.

539
00:37:11,739 --> 00:37:15,081
Even if there was a, yeah, no, it was beautiful.

540
00:37:15,081 --> 00:37:20,324
would not, there was no way I would ever allow that to change because it immediately
brought into things.

541
00:37:20,324 --> 00:37:23,035
And one thing I would say is that having an agent

542
00:37:23,035 --> 00:37:28,407
do something like that, having him do that in the midst of things was excellent for that.

543
00:37:28,407 --> 00:37:36,940
It brought home that violence, that guns are real, that like, isn't just some superhero
fantasy that we're playing, not that it really is that way, but you it really brought that

544
00:37:36,940 --> 00:37:37,471
down.

545
00:37:37,471 --> 00:37:40,922
And I think all four of us were like, fuck, you know?

546
00:37:40,922 --> 00:37:42,792
So that was good.

547
00:37:43,473 --> 00:37:44,343
Yeah.

548
00:37:44,722 --> 00:37:46,643
And it, I think it mirrors.

549
00:37:47,963 --> 00:37:48,103
Yeah.

550
00:37:48,103 --> 00:38:00,303
No, I was gonna say, I think it mirrors the reality of like a high, um, a high risk
situation where like, I mean, that happens sometimes in Sam and I's line of work where

551
00:38:00,303 --> 00:38:04,103
like you tell somebody like, Hey, I want you to do this.

552
00:38:04,103 --> 00:38:09,203
And they misunderstand you and they do what you didn't intend and

553
00:38:09,298 --> 00:38:17,583
you know, nobody just shoots someone in our line of work, but translating that to Delta
Green, it's like, I didn't want you to do X, I wanted you to do Y.

554
00:38:17,583 --> 00:38:19,785
And they're like, I thought you meant X.

555
00:38:19,785 --> 00:38:23,367
And in this situation, well, X means I kill this guy on the spot.

556
00:38:23,367 --> 00:38:25,238
And you're like, well, fuck, there's no taking that back.

557
00:38:25,238 --> 00:38:28,341
It's just very realistic and awesome.

558
00:38:28,341 --> 00:38:29,641
pop quiz.

559
00:38:30,162 --> 00:38:32,124
You are a Delta Green agent.

560
00:38:32,124 --> 00:38:33,566
You have a gun.

561
00:38:33,566 --> 00:38:40,352
A cop just saw a super awful unnatural thing and is fleeing the scene.

562
00:38:40,613 --> 00:38:46,598
Your co-Delta Green agent points at the guy and shouts, him.

563
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:51,110
Yeah, it's so good.

564
00:38:51,110 --> 00:38:53,419
does that mean to you?

565
00:38:54,579 --> 00:39:01,255
He's gotta be recruiting to Friendly, No.

566
00:39:01,255 --> 00:39:02,145
No, it's bad.

567
00:39:02,145 --> 00:39:06,879
um Okay, I do really have to go right now.

568
00:39:06,879 --> 00:39:09,832
Yeah, thank you.

569
00:39:09,832 --> 00:39:10,634
Take care.

570
00:39:10,634 --> 00:39:11,126
meeting you, man.

571
00:39:11,126 --> 00:39:12,104
Appreciate it.

572
00:39:12,104 --> 00:39:12,364
Yep.

573
00:39:12,364 --> 00:39:13,275
Later.

574
00:39:13,377 --> 00:39:14,154
Yeah.

575
00:39:14,154 --> 00:39:20,571
I cause that was between Morrison and, uh, yeah, Liam.

576
00:39:20,571 --> 00:39:22,784
And what I meant was tackle them.

577
00:39:22,784 --> 00:39:24,326
Like in my mind, I'm like, get them.

578
00:39:24,326 --> 00:39:28,077
meant now, but I'm just saying.

579
00:39:28,077 --> 00:39:28,568
him.

580
00:39:28,568 --> 00:39:30,741
I told you straight up moment kill him.

581
00:39:30,741 --> 00:39:32,634
then the whole situation most like it fuck kill him.

582
00:39:32,634 --> 00:39:34,776
Like let's move on from this.

583
00:39:34,898 --> 00:39:35,748
Yeah.

584
00:39:35,980 --> 00:39:37,361
isn't like...

585
00:39:38,110 --> 00:39:38,558
Thank you.

586
00:39:38,558 --> 00:39:46,534
imagined was we would grab him and have him prove to the other cops that we didn't kill
this woman and that's what I wanted him to do.

587
00:39:47,057 --> 00:39:48,378
I know, I know.

588
00:39:48,420 --> 00:39:48,917
Yeah.

589
00:39:48,917 --> 00:39:55,202
we're like, oh, let's like get them and then I'll roll persuade and be like, you got to
tell the cops that this isn't real and we're going to do this.

590
00:39:55,202 --> 00:40:01,176
And then so for somebody to just be like, pop, was like, okay, yes, this is yeah, it was
good.

591
00:40:01,176 --> 00:40:04,038
reaction to that uh interaction.

592
00:40:04,038 --> 00:40:08,361
Like I, I could not have come up with anything better if I tried.

593
00:40:08,361 --> 00:40:09,692
It was beautiful.

594
00:40:09,783 --> 00:40:10,369
That was good.

595
00:40:10,369 --> 00:40:16,968
guys have any favorite moments and or any things that you think didn't quite work?

596
00:40:17,948 --> 00:40:31,064
The only thing I would say that I wanted to talk eventually with everybody about is more
the playing mole, forgetting things was hard to do.

597
00:40:31,064 --> 00:40:36,988
I don't feel like I did a very good job of it, or maybe I did like a middling job of it, I
would say.

598
00:40:36,988 --> 00:40:47,438
but like hiding that you've forgotten something was the mission I gave you and you did it
because you had megalomania like

599
00:40:47,438 --> 00:40:58,440
that's probably the only thing that I think would be hard to do with that is that if the
options given to be able to do that, then what may be helpful with that is maybe even just

600
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,843
a couple examples of how that would look.

601
00:41:00,843 --> 00:41:01,764
Do you know I mean?

602
00:41:01,764 --> 00:41:03,442
Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

603
00:41:03,442 --> 00:41:05,622
some like A, A, B, C.

604
00:41:05,622 --> 00:41:06,402
Here's some examples.

605
00:41:06,402 --> 00:41:08,662
Here's how you can demonstrate it.

606
00:41:08,662 --> 00:41:09,522
This, that sort of thing.

607
00:41:09,522 --> 00:41:11,494
That's what I do want to put that in.

608
00:41:11,594 --> 00:41:20,734
I think that if you are at a table that's maybe new, not that I, I don't know, if you're
at a newer table or newer or whatever, they may not know how to communicate that and it

609
00:41:20,734 --> 00:41:21,888
may be kind of frustrating.

610
00:41:21,888 --> 00:41:38,865
So if you check out the, we actually added a bunch of notes to this on how to run it as
your first Delta Green campaign um with a bunch of notes for new handlers and stuff like

611
00:41:38,865 --> 00:41:39,585
that.

612
00:41:39,585 --> 00:41:49,549
Cause the Delta Green campaign jam had an optional uh make your first campaign for new
handlers.

613
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:50,910
Yeah.

614
00:41:51,318 --> 00:41:54,722
Cause that's a cool rule or a cool thing.

615
00:41:54,884 --> 00:41:59,671
But I think it need, if you have examples for how that could land, it's hard.

616
00:41:59,671 --> 00:41:59,967
Yeah.

617
00:41:59,967 --> 00:42:02,967
first person who has taken that option.

618
00:42:02,967 --> 00:42:08,489
Frankly, up till now, it has been a, like a fake option.

619
00:42:08,489 --> 00:42:14,851
It's so that you feel like there's this really awful consequence of what's going on on a
meta level.

620
00:42:14,851 --> 00:42:16,311
It's a threat.

621
00:42:16,311 --> 00:42:25,073
So you take the willpower loss every time, obviously, because the other thing is like too
crazy to like even consider.

622
00:42:25,274 --> 00:42:27,248
And then you did, and I was like, well, shit.

623
00:42:27,248 --> 00:42:29,080
Yeah, you're like, now how do we do this?

624
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:29,459
Right.

625
00:42:29,459 --> 00:42:35,665
And I think from the player perspective is that em you may not know how to interact with a
story.

626
00:42:35,665 --> 00:42:40,690
Cause it, I think the idea of doing it is excellent and playing it off is excellent.

627
00:42:40,690 --> 00:42:45,114
But I think a couple examples of how to continue to interact with the story.

628
00:42:45,114 --> 00:42:52,810
Cause I don't even know if you need to explain like how you should act and maybe give one
example, but really it should be like the agents are doing this.

629
00:42:52,810 --> 00:42:54,121
You want to participate.

630
00:42:54,121 --> 00:42:55,292
Here is how you would.

631
00:42:55,292 --> 00:42:57,635
participate in this manner kind of way.

632
00:42:57,635 --> 00:43:05,495
that was what I, that's where I felt, not loss is way too strong, but that's where I was
like, okay, how do I do something here?

633
00:43:05,495 --> 00:43:06,876
You know what I mean?

634
00:43:06,877 --> 00:43:11,742
Like do something now, but still also give off that I don't know what the fuck's going on.

635
00:43:11,863 --> 00:43:13,706
Luckily, Mole didn't know what the fuck was going on.

636
00:43:13,706 --> 00:43:14,446
So.

637
00:43:14,642 --> 00:43:29,638
Speaking of almost detonating the campaign, almost as uh wild as gunning down everyone in
the room was Miles pointing at Magpie and going, forget the investigation.

638
00:43:31,553 --> 00:43:32,957
He was gonna kill us.

639
00:43:34,594 --> 00:43:35,707
Man, like.

640
00:43:35,707 --> 00:43:36,170
about that.

641
00:43:36,170 --> 00:43:38,403
That's fucking yeah, that's fucking awesome.

642
00:43:38,403 --> 00:43:38,786
Yeah

643
00:43:38,786 --> 00:43:41,119
you were going with that, but I was along for the ride.

644
00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:43,130
I was excited to see where that went.

645
00:43:43,130 --> 00:43:43,871
sure.

646
00:43:44,446 --> 00:43:59,028
You so what's really interesting about giving you a spell like that, which is based or the
way I gave it to you as a ritual is very Loose right you assign a target and you say what

647
00:43:59,028 --> 00:44:13,760
they forget and then it happens and you kept picking these crazy like like these huge wide
but very hard to pick out things like

648
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:20,236
I would have imagined you could say something like, uh forget why you're angry.

649
00:44:20,397 --> 00:44:21,860
Yeah, something more.

650
00:44:21,860 --> 00:44:24,383
Yeah, I don't, just went big with it.

651
00:44:25,867 --> 00:44:27,791
I wouldn't know, right?

652
00:44:27,791 --> 00:44:30,477
demolishing like...

653
00:44:30,992 --> 00:44:41,067
That's excellent to me though in the way that if somebody was given access to something
that they don't understand what it is, but it carries a tremendous amount of power.

654
00:44:41,067 --> 00:44:44,918
That is like, that's like Spider-Man trying to figure out is like webbing shit.

655
00:44:44,918 --> 00:44:50,691
That's like the, you're like the baby Cole, like, or whatever, like trying to learn how to
walk or whatever the fuck that is.

656
00:44:50,691 --> 00:44:53,562
Like that truly, and like, you're just going to destroy people.

657
00:44:53,562 --> 00:44:57,606
It's a nuclear weapon that you don't even really understand that you have, you know?

658
00:44:57,606 --> 00:45:05,034
love that you didn't succeed at it until the boss fight, because yeah, that's what it does
is you take the memories.

659
00:45:05,241 --> 00:45:06,312
That's cool.

660
00:45:06,749 --> 00:45:07,543
there.

661
00:45:09,298 --> 00:45:10,108
That's interesting.

662
00:45:10,108 --> 00:45:11,799
Yeah, and I don't know.

663
00:45:11,799 --> 00:45:14,891
I mean, because Patrick, you've run this before, right?

664
00:45:14,891 --> 00:45:16,681
Did you have anyone do?

665
00:45:17,542 --> 00:45:26,727
I guess in that in that game, did anyone do the pinpoint like I'm going to do very because
I feel like in, I mean, it's basically like launching a missile, right?

666
00:45:26,727 --> 00:45:29,309
And missiles can be like carpet.

667
00:45:29,309 --> 00:45:36,993
Well, missiles are bombs and you can do like carpet bombing or you can do targeted
strikes, but targeted strikes are harder.

668
00:45:37,113 --> 00:45:39,294
And I think most people are going to

669
00:45:39,294 --> 00:45:41,570
just be like, let me carpet bomb this thing.

670
00:45:42,166 --> 00:45:57,907
No, so the two other people I ran this for, um it's Majde and Wilder, they're credited as
play testers in this scenario, and uh they're my core gaming group, and so we're super

671
00:45:57,907 --> 00:46:05,222
familiar with each other, it's really easy, you know, and they used it exactly the way I
imagined they would.

672
00:46:05,222 --> 00:46:09,665
uh They used it to steal a car.

673
00:46:10,106 --> 00:46:10,966
Hey.

674
00:46:11,064 --> 00:46:12,716
forget that's your car.

675
00:46:13,519 --> 00:46:17,245
And they use that to get out of shell and they

676
00:46:18,027 --> 00:46:21,164
No, well, so I, I, I say-

677
00:46:21,164 --> 00:46:23,349
in this like chat right now with you.

678
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:26,674
None of those people are people who would do something like that.

679
00:46:27,598 --> 00:46:27,941
Yeah.

680
00:46:27,941 --> 00:46:31,653
a fundamental and basic immediate level.

681
00:46:31,793 --> 00:46:38,047
And they used it to solve low stakes problems with willpower loss.

682
00:46:38,047 --> 00:46:43,760
And eventually the player who had access to it was like, oh, I'm in a dire threat now.

683
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:54,946
They had uh pissed off Teddy and Teddy's sister to the point where like Wilder was in the
stairwell killing Teddy by smashing his head against like the stairs.

684
00:46:54,962 --> 00:47:07,975
and his sister was in the truck with the other guy, like with a gun pressed to his
forehead, and he was like, I need to tell her to forget, like, that she's here, but I only

685
00:47:07,975 --> 00:47:11,538
have two willpower left, and it costs three.

686
00:47:12,734 --> 00:47:13,577
do I do?

687
00:47:13,577 --> 00:47:18,328
A, they need to go the Christian nationalist route that we went, which is always the
correct option.

688
00:47:18,328 --> 00:47:19,931
uh And then B,

689
00:47:21,186 --> 00:47:23,257
No, that works right up his alley.

690
00:47:23,257 --> 00:47:36,014
If you wanted to, oh think, um emphasize that more as a tool, if you gave even one example
of somebody using it, even talking about it as a tool, like quite clearly, where they used

691
00:47:36,014 --> 00:47:38,988
it in some small way, I think that would have primed us.

692
00:47:38,988 --> 00:47:41,069
But if you don't, then meh.

693
00:47:41,431 --> 00:47:41,998
Yeah.

694
00:47:41,998 --> 00:47:46,064
I just thought it was two super different ways of using it.

695
00:47:46,064 --> 00:47:47,574
and it

696
00:47:47,574 --> 00:47:51,879
thought to use it on mole so he wouldn't lose so much sanity at the beginning.

697
00:47:51,879 --> 00:47:57,317
I was gonna say, maybe I can negate all of his sand loss by telling him to forget it all
happened.

698
00:47:57,317 --> 00:48:00,460
But then magpie and I'm just like, all right, I'm gonna use it for that.

699
00:48:00,633 --> 00:48:01,453
Here's the question.

700
00:48:01,453 --> 00:48:02,057
the spell?

701
00:48:02,057 --> 00:48:03,450
Forget your sand loss?

702
00:48:03,450 --> 00:48:04,836
yeah.

703
00:48:07,935 --> 00:48:12,398
I wasn't going to let that work for housekeeping reasons.

704
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:24,728
Because we already had trouble with timey-wimey sand loss and being able to forget sand
losses means we have to dig back and figure out what that was and how much it was.

705
00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:35,697
Should we include a note that says, hey, they might use it this way, track sand loss on
paper?

706
00:48:35,697 --> 00:48:50,019
Yeah, I think two parts for that are that yes, second part is I would give an example for
how it moves from act one to act two to act three for maybe two player sanity so that it's

707
00:48:50,019 --> 00:48:52,762
directly spelled out what you want them to do.

708
00:48:52,762 --> 00:48:57,785
So like they lose this amount, so then it starts over and then they lose this amount and
this is what it is.

709
00:48:58,607 --> 00:48:59,100
Yeah.

710
00:48:59,100 --> 00:48:59,470
Yeah.

711
00:48:59,470 --> 00:49:05,955
And I think that's one point when you ask like, are there any like points that were
unclear that you'd add clarification?

712
00:49:05,955 --> 00:49:12,840
Honestly, the only point where I think from like a, like a, the, glance briefly at the
PDF.

713
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,663
The only thing I would add is like, try to make it.

714
00:49:16,663 --> 00:49:18,625
And I didn't read it.

715
00:49:18,625 --> 00:49:20,256
So maybe it's more clear in the PDF.

716
00:49:20,256 --> 00:49:26,170
I just flipped through it, but going from the like flashback and then back to current
time.

717
00:49:26,648 --> 00:49:31,012
make that a little bit more clear because I'm still not sure that I did it right.

718
00:49:32,018 --> 00:49:33,461
If I'm being honest.

719
00:49:33,461 --> 00:49:40,707
not in person, where we can't hold up our sheets to each other and say, oh, this is what
we're doing.

720
00:49:40,707 --> 00:49:46,046
and I did also have the thought that I'm like, this may be a problem of playing remotely.

721
00:49:46,046 --> 00:49:50,002
And you know, that is what it is.

722
00:49:50,606 --> 00:49:52,608
Because you guys shouldn't A.

723
00:49:52,608 --> 00:49:55,616
Have to know the mechanic or B.

724
00:49:55,616 --> 00:49:57,038
Know the mechanic.

725
00:49:57,448 --> 00:50:02,751
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with that.

726
00:50:02,831 --> 00:50:04,372
I think it's better as a secret.

727
00:50:04,372 --> 00:50:09,915
And I think the way you do that is to give a couple examples and say, this is what it is,
exactly how we have it.

728
00:50:09,915 --> 00:50:12,937
And so that way, all you have to do is be like, what was your sanity?

729
00:50:12,937 --> 00:50:13,716
What was your sanity?

730
00:50:13,716 --> 00:50:14,508
What was your sanity?

731
00:50:14,508 --> 00:50:16,379
And then boom, it's like done, you know?

732
00:50:16,379 --> 00:50:23,105
I'm a moderately lazy handler, so I don't like track that sort of thing in a way that I
could.

733
00:50:23,838 --> 00:50:26,168
And in a way that I know other people do.

734
00:50:26,168 --> 00:50:30,632
uh That's, yes.

735
00:50:31,794 --> 00:50:32,187
But...

736
00:50:32,187 --> 00:50:40,670
problem with the players tracking it is that if, if they don't know the mechanics and they
get something wrong or something happens, then it becomes the storm of now you have to

737
00:50:40,670 --> 00:50:41,971
kind of give the mechanic.

738
00:50:41,971 --> 00:50:43,011
Yeah, exactly.

739
00:50:43,011 --> 00:50:51,004
Whereas if you just had here is how it works and give the example or even give like, if
it's this, then this, then all you have to do is be like, what's your sand?

740
00:50:51,004 --> 00:50:51,404
Okay.

741
00:50:51,404 --> 00:50:52,224
And then we move on.

742
00:50:52,224 --> 00:50:52,975
You know I mean?

743
00:50:52,975 --> 00:50:53,705
What, what is it?

744
00:50:53,705 --> 00:50:54,558
Now it's this.

745
00:50:54,558 --> 00:50:56,987
that we screwed up malls and somewhere in the middle

746
00:50:56,987 --> 00:51:08,997
If you want players to track it, I would maybe put in a note to the handler that like at
the end of Act 1, tell the players like on your sheet or if you make a new sheet, make

747
00:51:08,997 --> 00:51:11,979
very clear what you're saying is at the end of Act 1.

748
00:51:11,979 --> 00:51:14,501
Like you have to know that number.

749
00:51:15,102 --> 00:51:18,421
Yeah, and I failed at it because I suck.

750
00:51:18,421 --> 00:51:19,754
all of you at the end.

751
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,341
Yeah, that's okay.

752
00:51:22,902 --> 00:51:23,762
Yeah, whatever.

753
00:51:23,762 --> 00:51:31,907
No, I think that those are the only two things that popped out is any part of uh
bottlenecks for just like doing stuff.

754
00:51:31,907 --> 00:51:34,539
Otherwise there was no, otherwise it was like fun as hell.

755
00:51:34,539 --> 00:51:37,829
So uh yeah, there's, yeah.

756
00:51:37,829 --> 00:51:39,895
like, it was, even that was fun as hell.

757
00:51:39,895 --> 00:51:41,204
The whole thing was excellent.

758
00:51:41,204 --> 00:51:43,504
Oh yeah, that was like not a problem at all.

759
00:51:43,504 --> 00:51:44,964
felt like it was anything.

760
00:51:45,204 --> 00:51:48,224
I do think the communication of themes is excellent.

761
00:51:48,264 --> 00:51:58,304
What I personally, when I read through things and when we play stuff, when I feel most
satisfied is when we walk away and somebody is like, oh, you did this maybe because of

762
00:51:58,304 --> 00:51:58,544
this.

763
00:51:58,544 --> 00:51:59,964
And I'm like, yeah, you know what I mean?

764
00:51:59,964 --> 00:52:04,084
And not like, oh, the guy shot this guy because his wife was cheating on him.

765
00:52:04,084 --> 00:52:05,404
Like not the story beats.

766
00:52:05,404 --> 00:52:10,993
mean, like they were like, oh, I picked up on the theme of like modern surveillance with
this and like that's.

767
00:52:10,993 --> 00:52:12,302
like perfect so

768
00:52:12,302 --> 00:52:17,125
So that's hilarious and that all goes to Hank because I don't do themes.

769
00:52:17,412 --> 00:52:17,734
really?

770
00:52:17,734 --> 00:52:20,054
uh

771
00:52:20,054 --> 00:52:28,779
do, um like, I am much better at, like, visual set pieces.

772
00:52:29,940 --> 00:52:40,505
And, like, I can imagine a scene and then tell you what I think it's going to look like,
but I can't, I don't, I'm not good at putting together a themed story like that.

773
00:52:40,505 --> 00:52:49,181
um Like, I was really happy with the red star place where Hydra lives.

774
00:52:49,181 --> 00:52:49,952
Yeah.

775
00:52:50,536 --> 00:52:51,376
Yeah.

776
00:52:51,860 --> 00:52:52,720
Yeah.

777
00:52:53,906 --> 00:52:54,459
Yeah.

778
00:52:54,459 --> 00:53:00,213
I noticed consistently throughout is I very much enjoyed your like physical description of
scenes.

779
00:53:00,213 --> 00:53:01,214
It was good.

780
00:53:01,214 --> 00:53:02,294
I liked it.

781
00:53:02,958 --> 00:53:09,748
Yeah, I'm really glad that Hank's themes can come through even with that.

782
00:53:09,849 --> 00:53:10,712
That's really cool.

783
00:53:10,712 --> 00:53:19,444
the argument that maybe you don't feel good at it, like you probably, mean, you're, you,
you're able to take this and, and the themes come through even with all that, you know?

784
00:53:19,444 --> 00:53:21,706
So, yeah.

785
00:53:21,747 --> 00:53:22,567
So.

786
00:53:22,956 --> 00:53:25,483
I'm glad you took the themes away with you.

787
00:53:26,096 --> 00:53:29,981
A technical question, uh what if we'd gotten to Hydra earlier?

788
00:53:29,981 --> 00:53:36,759
Because I know somebody, think maybe Jordan asked like, what if we didn't address it and
got to it later?

789
00:53:36,759 --> 00:53:40,248
And that made me think like, what if we got to it earlier?

790
00:53:40,248 --> 00:53:43,640
Very hard to, very, very hard to.

791
00:53:45,002 --> 00:53:46,943
You did, yeah.

792
00:53:46,943 --> 00:53:56,290
Gunning it straight from, um you could have, I don't know, cheated and gotten there
straight from Chelan without stopping at Hayden's house.

793
00:53:57,131 --> 00:54:06,798
I think you did find a record that he worked at Valerie's Coffee somewhere, but I think
the, I think we do kind of maybe need a stronger hint.

794
00:54:06,862 --> 00:54:07,288
Yeah.

795
00:54:07,288 --> 00:54:11,083
for towards the Bon Marché from Anthony Hayden's apartment.

796
00:54:11,083 --> 00:54:14,848
um Hayden's apartment, yeah.

797
00:54:15,870 --> 00:54:17,732
Yeah, that sucks.

798
00:54:18,013 --> 00:54:18,628
That's not a...

799
00:54:18,628 --> 00:54:19,812
I know what you mean.

800
00:54:20,579 --> 00:54:30,102
maybe this is just me and I don't, maybe something about the verbiage of what you said at
the time, but like in Act Two, when we were investigating the people who showed up to the

801
00:54:30,102 --> 00:54:36,103
retreat, you know, we talked to whatever name was the lady whose head imploded with worms.

802
00:54:36,103 --> 00:54:39,424
ah We talked to her about her past.

803
00:54:39,424 --> 00:54:41,805
We looked into Anthony's past.

804
00:54:42,845 --> 00:54:46,166
And maybe this is just my investigative style, but it's...

805
00:54:46,270 --> 00:54:49,470
very history focused, like personal history focused.

806
00:54:49,470 --> 00:54:57,670
And so I was like, we had information even back during Operation Hilo Legacy that he
worked there.

807
00:54:57,670 --> 00:55:00,510
And so even as far back as that, that was on my list.

808
00:55:00,510 --> 00:55:04,484
But again, I don't know if that's something the average person would do.

809
00:55:04,484 --> 00:55:11,279
we need to do a better job of flagging that information, I think.

810
00:55:12,119 --> 00:55:21,160
And that is the big key at Hayden's apartment is the $0, zero cents paychecks.

811
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:21,960
Yeah.

812
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:29,892
No, it keyed me in immediately that I was like, we should go there because something weird
is happening, AKA in memory stuff is going on.

813
00:55:29,892 --> 00:55:40,305
hadn't fully put together that he was there, but I definitely keyed in on the idea that
like something's happening there repeatedly and this happens only in repeated situations.

814
00:55:40,305 --> 00:55:51,081
I think even something as small as it being repeated in each aspect of meaning each
chapter would be enough to key a player in.

815
00:55:51,081 --> 00:55:58,659
where it's like there's one clue that points to Valerie there in first one, one clue in
the second, and then bring it up again in the third, then it's not just you saying

816
00:55:58,659 --> 00:56:01,006
Valerie's coffee shop, Valerie's coffee shop.

817
00:56:01,006 --> 00:56:01,482
Maybe.

818
00:56:01,482 --> 00:56:07,626
know how to put it in the first act without giving that information to Roger.

819
00:56:08,387 --> 00:56:14,440
And I don't want that to be information that Roger personally has.

820
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,072
it's already, Roger is an info dump.

821
00:56:18,593 --> 00:56:20,714
He's got a lot going on.

822
00:56:20,790 --> 00:56:24,562
so you could make the Bon Marché personal to Anthony, right?

823
00:56:24,562 --> 00:56:34,577
Like in the investigation, there could be something, details that like, maybe when he
caught that first charge, he was doing drugs at the Bon Marché, or maybe he worked there

824
00:56:34,577 --> 00:56:36,748
before it was shut down, or maybe his mom worked there.

825
00:56:36,748 --> 00:56:42,191
You can add like a personal hook where it's like, why?

826
00:56:42,191 --> 00:56:42,962
down.

827
00:56:42,962 --> 00:56:43,774
He's sad.

828
00:56:43,774 --> 00:56:45,849
That really perfect.

829
00:56:45,849 --> 00:56:46,535
There it is.

830
00:56:46,535 --> 00:56:47,998
like worming her way in.

831
00:56:47,998 --> 00:56:51,124
She's like, oh, he has these memories of the Bon Marché.

832
00:56:51,124 --> 00:56:53,516
Like, I'm gonna keep him there, right?

833
00:56:53,516 --> 00:56:54,326
Yeah.

834
00:56:54,366 --> 00:57:10,244
Oh, by the way, ah the name of the thing that is in Anthony, it killed me the first time I
read it because it is only referenced in the ah enemy block.

835
00:57:10,244 --> 00:57:10,955
What do you call that?

836
00:57:10,955 --> 00:57:14,097
ah Yeah, in the stat block.

837
00:57:14,097 --> 00:57:17,458
He has it called the Avatar of Worms.

838
00:57:18,203 --> 00:57:21,344
Avatar of Worms, aka Mother Hydra.

839
00:57:21,344 --> 00:57:22,253
card.

840
00:57:22,253 --> 00:57:23,535
fucking yeah.

841
00:57:23,535 --> 00:57:30,346
I was like, that's the only place it's mentioned and I like got to him like, oh that guy,
I know exactly who that is.

842
00:57:30,346 --> 00:57:31,524
What the hell.

843
00:57:32,265 --> 00:57:32,750
Metal.

844
00:57:32,750 --> 00:57:34,105
it's very layered, barren.

845
00:57:34,105 --> 00:57:35,164
It's excellent.

846
00:57:35,164 --> 00:57:37,497
Yeah, it is very learn-bearing.

847
00:57:37,598 --> 00:57:51,161
question for you, Nick, I think because you and Jordan have like a lot of personal
knowledge and history, just, we write a lot of our games or I don't know, Sam and I have

848
00:57:51,161 --> 00:57:53,602
talked about games around like Kansas city, St.

849
00:57:53,602 --> 00:57:55,042
Louis, Missouri.

850
00:57:55,042 --> 00:58:06,405
And I feel like there's something to that, that eases the cognitive burden of an
investigative game in the sense of like Bon Marché.

851
00:58:06,565 --> 00:58:14,091
and the coffee shop, do you think that like it being a setting you're familiar or even
like where the fuck is Chelan?

852
00:58:14,091 --> 00:58:15,172
Like I didn't know.

853
00:58:15,172 --> 00:58:22,458
And so that's like, I'm having to like try and like orient myself to a space that you just
have a natural orientation of.

854
00:58:22,638 --> 00:58:29,645
I guess, Patrick, in the game that you ran before, did the people have an intuitive
knowledge of that?

855
00:58:29,645 --> 00:58:34,929
And do you think that playing it with people from that geographic area had any influence?

856
00:58:35,234 --> 00:58:47,854
Yes, um without the knowledge of the geographical area, there was a lot of very easy, like
everybody had Google Maps open all the time.

857
00:58:47,854 --> 00:58:52,586
yeah, and that's totally OK.

858
00:58:52,946 --> 00:58:58,740
And having people super familiar with the area was also super easy and super clean.

859
00:58:58,740 --> 00:59:00,111
And it felt like gliding.

860
00:59:00,111 --> 00:59:02,753
And it was a little tough having half and half.

861
00:59:02,753 --> 00:59:04,614
uh

862
00:59:04,684 --> 00:59:09,273
because I didn't have a way to like slow it down for the people who have to Google map it.

863
00:59:09,273 --> 00:59:21,373
At that point, you think it would be worth including, again, maybe you did, but like
including a very like basic map of the geographic area?

864
00:59:21,873 --> 00:59:23,767
And maybe not even...

865
00:59:23,767 --> 00:59:28,959
of scenarios that have like, is here, this is here, like in it.

866
00:59:29,585 --> 00:59:31,096
Yeah, that's true.

867
00:59:31,096 --> 00:59:31,497
Yeah.

868
00:59:31,497 --> 00:59:31,858
Alright.

869
00:59:31,858 --> 00:59:32,109
Yep.

870
00:59:32,109 --> 00:59:32,909
Fair enough.

871
00:59:32,909 --> 00:59:36,617
San Juan Island, and I made you all pull up a Google map of it.

872
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:37,960
But we could.

873
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:38,290
matter.

874
00:59:38,290 --> 00:59:42,966
It's just like, you just need to know it's about three and a half hours away and that's
about it.

875
00:59:42,966 --> 00:59:43,463
Yeah.

876
00:59:43,463 --> 00:59:48,045
I'll say I'm someone who is very like heavily space oriented.

877
00:59:48,045 --> 00:59:50,164
And so maybe that's why I'm fixating on it.

878
00:59:50,164 --> 00:59:53,068
Because I'm like, wait, where the fuck are we going when it doesn't really matter?

879
00:59:53,068 --> 00:59:55,529
Like you said, Nick, it's three and a half hours away.

880
00:59:55,529 --> 00:59:57,550
It doesn't matter if it's north, south, east, west.

881
00:59:57,550 --> 00:59:59,671
But in my mind, I'm like, it does matter.

882
00:59:59,671 --> 01:00:02,812
Am I driving into the ocean or am I not?

883
01:00:03,682 --> 01:00:08,089
Yeah, I do like that it is oriented so that you can Google map it the whole time.

884
01:00:08,089 --> 01:00:10,873
And the Google maps do matter.

885
01:00:11,054 --> 01:00:18,811
I'm really upset that the location list I gave you didn't plot the spiral, because that
was a very fun moment for one of my players.

886
01:00:18,811 --> 01:00:19,965
Yeah, and that may-

887
01:00:19,965 --> 01:00:29,604
about that though, because I had the spiral plotted out, but there was, I don't know what
happened with that, but I had that spiral plotted out.

888
01:00:29,604 --> 01:00:38,242
Cause I remember that on, when we were all in discord talking, I was like, there's a
spiral or there was some moment where I was like, this is a spiral.

889
01:00:39,164 --> 01:00:39,555
Yeah.

890
01:00:39,555 --> 01:00:44,247
did a weird like jaggedy, it wasn't in the date order to make the spiral.

891
01:00:44,856 --> 01:00:47,078
Something odd, I gotta check up on that.

892
01:00:48,247 --> 01:00:50,299
No, it was cool though, that was a cool moment.

893
01:00:50,299 --> 01:00:51,351
Yeah, it was.

894
01:00:51,351 --> 01:00:59,352
And like very key to the investigation because that's like, that's how we knew to go to
Valerie's coffee shop.

895
01:00:59,352 --> 01:01:04,264
That is the second way of figuring out where you should be going.

896
01:01:06,605 --> 01:01:08,325
Well, should we cut it guys?

897
01:01:08,325 --> 01:01:09,613
Yeah, sounds good.

898
01:01:09,613 --> 01:01:10,387
Cool.

899
01:01:10,387 --> 01:01:11,832
got no more questions.

900
01:01:12,412 --> 01:01:14,095
I'm sure I have a bunch.

901
01:01:14,412 --> 01:01:20,240
I have to like sit and ponder for a little bit because I have more about the themes in
writing too, but yeah.

902
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:30,308
I'd say is like as a comment, um playing like 90 % of the games that I have with Sam,
Patrick, your style is different.

903
01:01:30,308 --> 01:01:36,273
And I think there were some miscommunications that resulted in some awesome like missteps
and I fucking loved it.

904
01:01:36,273 --> 01:01:46,671
Like I know, I know you were like, I'm not a detail oriented person, but compared to how
we play, I'm like, shit, he's asking me for an updated character sheet.

905
01:01:48,082 --> 01:01:52,590
I you are tragically the only person that did not track failures.

906
01:01:52,852 --> 01:01:54,284
I'm so sorry.

907
01:01:54,334 --> 01:01:58,497
intended to every time and then I didn't.

908
01:01:58,497 --> 01:02:00,368
It's like I'm going to keep track of it this time.

909
01:02:00,368 --> 01:02:02,379
And then you're like, what were your failures?

910
01:02:02,379 --> 01:02:05,251
And I'm like, I don't know.

911
01:02:05,276 --> 01:02:07,871
we don't even like update our character sheets on things.

912
01:02:07,871 --> 01:02:08,873
They don't want to get better.

913
01:02:08,873 --> 01:02:10,196
They want to fail.

914
01:02:10,196 --> 01:02:13,382
That's what their whole goal in this game is, is just fail forward.

915
01:02:13,382 --> 01:02:15,545
So it is, no.

916
01:02:15,545 --> 01:02:24,362
last time we played with our group and it was let's not update our character sheets too
often so that we our characters don't get too strong

917
01:02:24,894 --> 01:02:27,963
Oh, I don't know that you have to worry about that.

918
01:02:28,969 --> 01:02:32,077
Y'all were at the bottom of the barrel.

919
01:02:32,456 --> 01:02:35,300
yeah

920
01:02:37,165 --> 01:02:39,472
no thank you very much it was

921
01:02:39,472 --> 01:02:41,507
I hope to play with all of you again.

922
01:02:41,507 --> 01:02:43,868
This was a ton of fun.

923
01:02:43,868 --> 01:02:44,799
Yeah, thank you guys.

924
01:02:44,799 --> 01:02:46,110
Appreciate all of this.

925
01:02:46,110 --> 01:02:47,100
I love it so much.

926
01:02:47,100 --> 01:02:49,252
So yeah, this is a blast.

927
01:02:49,345 --> 01:02:50,226
Cool.

928
01:02:51,341 --> 01:02:52,451
See you guys later.

929
01:02:52,504 --> 01:02:53,295
Yep.