I, I could go five, six days with no human interaction. It is so detrimental because self-isolation causes depression. Loneliness, you don't have a sense of touch. You're not interacting with people intimately, meaning you're not in somebody's face. You're not. I. Hey John, here's a handshake, here's a hug. This is a problem. And a lot of people don't know. Once they self isolate, they go down a rabbit hole of self-isolation and it creates a problem. And by the time they figure out they have a problem, it might be too late for 'em. We'll

discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk about this topic 'cause we were afraid. A black executive

perspective,

we are coming to you live from the new BEP studio for another thought-provoking episode of A A Black Executive Perspective podcast. I'm your host, Tony Tidbit. So before we get started, new Year. But guess what? We still want you to follow our partners. Don't forget to check them out. Code M Magazine, whose mission is saving the black family by first saving the black man? Check them out @codemmagazine.com. That is code m magazine.com. So you know, one of the things when I was growing up. Self-image was a big thing as being a kid. You know, how people perceive me, how I thought of myself, how I thought the world saw me was huge. My mother was a big proponent and, uh, providing a lot of positive feedback to make sure that regardless of how I felt or what I thought. I had a positive, uh, outlook in terms of my self image and who I am. Well, unfortunately, today that's not the case. So I'm joined today by Brad Bowling, president of CODE M Magazine to discuss his thought provoking article. I. Looking glass self theory, we're gonna examine its significance and are digitally driven and increasingly disconnected world. We're gonna explore how self image is influenced by others, the impact of social media isolation, and the essential importance of human connection and self-kindness. Brag, boing, my brother. Welcome back to a A A Black Executive Perspective podcast,

Mr. Franklin. How are you sir? Happy New Year to you.

Happy New Year, man. I'm doing well. You know, look, I have a, you know, every year I, you know, I'm no different. You probably do the same thing. We set goals 'cause you are very. You know, uh, a mission-focused individual, you wouldn't be where you are if you didn't set goals. And I always have certain words for the new year, right? Those words are the things that supposed to remind me of what I'm trying to accomplish. So my logo, my, my phrase for 2025. Is strive and thrive. Mm-hmm. In 25.

Okay.

Okay. So that's what I'm looking, excuse me. That's what I'm gonna do. But also I'm praying that all my friends and partners and everyone is able to thrive and strive in 25.

Let's go. Let's go. Mine is purpose and power, bro. Oh, I love that.

You know, so

the purpose of the magazine is to highlight and showcase black man doing incredible things, but the power comes from the nonprofit that we're launching in 2025, so we can touch people at a visceral local level. And so, uh, my, my goal this year is to live in purpose and power. I.

Buddy. I love it. Here's the thing though. Not, don't. Not only do I love the words, I love the way you said it, your

conviction.

Right, right. Whoop power. Right. That's the thing. You speak it into existence.

Yes, sir.

Okay. So I really love it. And guess what, I'm gonna add that into my repertoire as well, right? No, you can't take it. That's mine. I'm not gonna take it. I said, oh, alright. I said bad. Right. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I got my own words right. Oh, it's all good my brother. I ain't, no, I'm messing. I'm not. Take nothing from you.

I'm messing with it.

No, it's all good, man. So look bro, you know, one of the things that we did last year is, you know, we had you come on a few times. Your magazine is awesome. Obviously you're doing great things in the community. People enjoy it. But a lot of the articles, not a lot, but there's certain articles that you write that are off the script. That really touch and talk about issues across the whole spectrum of human beings around the world. Right?

Yeah.

And this is one of them. So I wanted to get an just from you, man, why did you wanna come on and talk about this topic? The Looking Glass Self Theory.

So, you know, the pandemic brought a lot out of us that I don't think we knew we had. It was a lurking problem underneath the surface of who we are as people. But I think the pandemic, the pandemic exacerbated the problem. And so I wrote the article to kind of address self-isolation and how people don't realize how taking a step back from interacting with other people. Taking the conveniences that we think are helping life are actually making life worse for certain people. We wanted to bring that to people's attention, so if they do experience any issues with loneliness, depression, suicidal thoughts, this could be the culprit. And we wanted to kind of identify some solutions that they could use to overcome something that they might have unintentionally created. Uh, for themselves. So I wanted to come on and talk about that today.

Oh yeah, I, I, I love it. I love it. And so I'm excited to dive into this. I've read it multiple times. It's very thought provoking. There's a lot here. So you ready to talk about it? Let's go. Alright man. Let's talk about it. So, let's start off, you know me, man. One of the things I always want to do is start off at the beginning, keep things simple, right? Because even I didn't know so. Can you talk a little bit about what is the Looking Glass self theory?

The Looking Glass Self Theory, uh, was written or de developed by Charles Horton Wood, uh, Charles Wooden Horton in 1902. A sociologist who identified, uh, the humans, uh, need to understand how we perceive ourselves. So the look and glass cell theory is the concept that you derive who you are based on how others perceive you to be. And I know that sounds a little complicated and it's wordy, but really we get, we, we get our self worth from how we perceive others feel about us, right? And so it's very important that we recognize how we perceive ourselves and how we. Use the world to perceive ourselves, because right now the world's con conflicted, uh, and so our self perception is conflicted as well, especially with the, with the invention of the internet.

Uh, buddy. So, so true. You know, when I was reading this, obviously I was going back to my childhood because a lot of the things that you just got finished talking about is developed. Um, in your childhood, right? Yes. Yes. And it's a different world today. So I wanna read an excerpt of your article, um, and, and then I wanna dive into it further, right? So you are right here. The looking glass self theory can affect self-esteem in either a negative or a positive way. For example, a person's self-esteem may increase if they continuously believe others perceive them. In a positive manner. The looking, this has become a problem in modern society because there is so much fake information on the internet. The false information coupled with a lack of human contact can affect anyone who's vulnerable to public perception as they might develop a negative attitude towards themselves. So talk a little, so, 'cause here's the thing, I get the first part. Okay. As I kicked off the episode, I, you, let's be fair here. Growing up the way we grew up. It was all about social contact and the way you perceived yourself is exactly how you thought people looked at you, right? Correct, yes. How they interacted with you. Did they think you were handsome or ugly? Even though, even though it may not be true what they thought, okay, you could have been the most handsomest person, but if they're saying you are ugly. You would start it, then you start to take that in, right? Yes. Vice versa. Right, right. And so if you were weight overweight or skinny or, or whatever, if you were strong or weak. I remember, I don't, buddy. I remember back in the day and I used to have these comic books and magazines and in every magazine they had the little, um. The little, uh, uh, article of the dude getting kicks sand in the beach. Remember? Arch and comics? Yeah. Yeah. And the dude would be laying there and this big dude come and kicks sand in the face. Yeah. Right? And then he'd be like, ah, you little weakling. And then he comes, he goes and works out, and he comes back and then he, you know, he beats the dude up and then takes his girl. Right? But so that perception, right? Yes, yes. I'm a weakling, this and that. Then I gotta do something to get better. But now. It's different because of social media. Speak to that a little bit, my brother.

It, it's different because you know, back when you and I were growing up, we got our information from the local news and then the people around us. So our self-perception. Was based on our daily interactions with people. We went out, we ventured out, we went to school. You went to practice, you went to work. You know, you went to the playground and you develop your self-awareness based on how others perceived you, and then of course, how your social circle was around you. We were closer to family. We had parents around us, we had siblings around us. We had cousins around us. Well, today you don't have to have that, right? So you're on social media. If somebody says something you don't like, you can delete them. Have you ever seen. You know the comments, Hey, anybody that disagrees with my belief systems, I'm just gonna unfriend them. You know, hey, if you're a Republican or Democrat and I don't like what you're saying, I'm gonna delete you.

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So our self-awareness has become skewed because now you can go out and you can seek like-minded individuals. So now people don't have perspective. Right. The problem with that is if you don't see a difference of opinion and you only see people who are around you, if I'm fat, I can go to a fat support group. Now fat is okay. So, you know, the, the, the problem with that is, and I know you're laughing, but you, you develop no coping skills and you also don't develop a sense of awareness about yourself to improve yourself.

Right?

So now you're saying people not have to go seek improvement. And so, you know. There's so many problems with what we have right now as a society. One, because you know, you got DoorDash, you have Zoom, you have GrubHub. You don't have to go out and, you know, internet banking, you literally don't have to leave your house if you don't want to. That lack of human interaction, the false information that's spread on the internet, whether it's true or false, uh, tends to create the kind of personality. That can get you in trouble and lead to loneliness, isolation, and suicidal thoughts. Wow. And so it's a big problem that we have to address, and that's what we're trying to do with the article.

No, that is number one. You're correct. Number two is a shame. Um, and then number three, just hearing the effects because you, you are a hundred percent right. You know, one of the things I was thinking about. As you were, you were chatting, is that when I was a kid? Right? You, you hit it on the head. You're out. Um, and a lot of who you are was not just shaped by your family, but shaped by your friends. Yes. A lot of things that you learned that you may have thought you knew, but you learned from your friends or they learned from you. Right. And then not only that, the only perception in terms of what we would call beauty. Or success or failure would be what we saw with individuals, with human beings, actual people. Very rarely we would take what we saw in a magazine or something of that nature and say, oh, I wanna be this. Well, today with social media, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, you can name it. You have images of people. That there's no imperfections.

Correct.

Okay.

Yeah.

You have people. Uh, who, and this was, this drives me crazy 'cause I've, I've seen it a million times. I've even chatted with people who, when you talk to 'em one on one, they're telling you they're having problems with their significant other, right? And they don't know if they're gonna make it. And then the next day you look on social media and there's a picture. And then, and the other person said, the love of my life, I wouldn't know if I, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for this. Person. Right. Everybody help me

wish my boo happy birthday.

Yeah. And it's, they putting out a perception that's not real based on what they've said. Right. But they want people to think it's real. Here's the other thing, I wanna read this because this is also a key. In your article, it says, the looking glass theory can hugely impact children. Children develop a perception of self, uh, through interactions with other people. What we just got finished talking about children would often take the feedback that they got from others to develop their own concept of self. This frADDRA stage in development has typically, typically protected the positive reinforcement of, of the parents.

Yes.

However. The children gaining access to social media earlier and earlier in life. They are susceptible to developing negative feelings about themselves before they're able to differentiate between their sense of self and other people's possible perceptions of them.

Correct.

Talk a little bit about that, my brother.

So, you know, our children are vulnerable because the internet is so powerful today. Right. And so experts, you know, there's a debate on how soon you should let your child onto the internet because their access to information, their access to content, uh, constructively, you know, know, determine who they, how they perceive themselves based on the internet. You know, usually we used to get. Social acceptance through interpersonal communication. Now people take a look at how many life they get, and that helps them determine how they perceive themselves. So it's important for our children to develop a sense of awareness, self-awareness first before they get on the internet. Because once they get on the internet, it's very difficult to control what they take in when they're by themselves. Right? So, you know, you're with your phone, it's at nighttime, you should be in bed, but you're scrolling. Uh, a lot of your contact with, with the in outside world come, the information comes from the news, comes from the internet, uh, going viral information. You know, the tiktoks, the all, all the different apps. And so it's very important that you slow your child's access to the internet down as much as possible, so then you can help them develop a sense of awareness. Because listen, Tony, once they hit 10, 11 years old. It might be too late. They might have already decided who they are, and that is so young to put that kind of pressure on a child, they haven't had a chance to succeed, to fail, to know who they are, to know who they want to be. Uh, they haven't given, been given time to experiment. You know, do I play football? Do I play the violin? You know, do I go for acting? Do I want to be an engineer? They don't have, they don't have the time to develop a sense of awareness anymore, right? And so it's very, very important that you delay your child's introduction into the internet for as long as possible.

You know, I think the other thing though, too, is that they're not able to develop a sense of what failure is. Okay, so in other words, you know, a, a world has been created that everybody wins. Okay. A world's been created, that everybody gets a trophy. A world has been created that, you know, uh uh, and I don't wanna say you don't have to do your best, but whatever you do is good enough. Okay. Right, right. And at the end of the day, you know, as growing up with our friends and, you know, we learned the difference between, you dealt with failure all the time. You playing, uh, football in the streets, okay, that was your Super Bowl playing baseball, being in class, and the teacher says, what's this? And blah, blah, blah. But if you live in a world where everything is coming to you and there's no, uh, antithesis of that, right? There's no feedback saying this is not right, or, so it's hard to develop. In terms of you only think of one way, and if this way doesn't work, then I'm no good, because that's the only thing that you interact with in when it comes to social media. Let me ask you this. When it comes to, is there any data that has, you know, in terms of backing up the Looking Glass theory in terms of how children used to be prior. The two thousands and then how they're now when it comes to self-esteem and how they're now, uh, when they look at their self-esteem in this digitally driven society.

Absolutely. And so, you know, there was just a report, and I don't wanna say this is recent. I think this might have came out either a last year or the year before, but the number one health risk for children under 16, especially girls. Is the internet, it is more harm. The internet is one of the most harmful things to the development for a young female for all kids, by the way. But specifically young females because they get a sense of self based on the internet, beauty, how they should behave, what should they wear, uh, what should they be listening to. You know, uh, unfortunately I have two daughters and you know, women are so hard on each other, not as hard as men are. Men tend to develop hierarchies in their social circles. You know, if you walk into a room of men, we're instantly sizing each other up and down. Correct? Correct. So you quickly find out who's the leader. Who's the worker? You know, uh, who should be at the bottom? Who should be in the middle? Uh, a lot of times men will self-identify what roles they have. Hey, I'm gonna work on the wood. You go over here, you cut this, I'm gonna build. So men tend to find out through their social circles, they hierarchy, and we trust that hierarchy. Right? Hey, you know what? I acknowledge that you might be smarter than me. You might be stronger than me. I'm okay with that. It doesn't make me less, it makes me different, but it doesn't make me less with young ladies. There's combativeness, right? So, you know, when, when young boys play video games or they play football or whatever, you get an idea of who's good at what, and then you, you, you work on those traits. You also, you know, you can take criticism, Hey, I need to work on my throwing. I need to work on dribbling. I may need to work on my right hand because I'm dominant. Left hand playing basketball. Girls when they play games. They don't tend to look at that and say, okay, here's a leader. Here's the follower, here's the winner, here's the loser. If you take a look at girls, it's playing. Do. You know, uh, it's playing house, so there's no social development in that. A lot of times if you have disagreements with females, they just stop playing the game. Men, we tend to say, okay, well let's figure out what the solution is to this and let's continue. And so girls struggle with the internet more than boys. And so the data is out there to support that The internet is detrimental to young females.

Wow. Let me ask you this, you know, and, and look, we went to the children. Which makes total sense 'cause they're the ones, you know, they're growing up in the world and this is all, especially a digitally driven world. This is all they know. Right. However, talk a little bit about the adults though, right? That, that grew up like we grew up alright. That have self isolated, that have used the, uh, the, the looking glass theory is, is, uh, is, is they have a negative connotation about themselves too, based on social media.

Well, you know, again, the pandemic has created such a, a vicious cycle. Uh, problems for us as, uh, Americans and just humans in general. Before the pandemic, I think people ventured out. They went around, they felt safe. I. Uh, they, they experimented in social settings. The world was just different. Now, post pandemic, the world is so different. You know, you have zooms, people are going to the office less. Remember when you, when you went to the office, you interacted. Now we could all complain about that Monday meeting where the manager talked about our two kids that we hated. You know what I mean? Remember those mor Monday morning meetings where it's like, I gotta sit here and go over my sales projections again in front of 20 other people for two

hours. I just, and I just told you that on Friday.

Yeah. Yeah. And I just told you that on Friday. Right. John, what are you doing the next quarter? But, but the, the, the, the thing that we actually loved about that is you came into the office, you fought traffic, you got coffee. You know, your teammates were in the same room. You touch people, you hugged people, you joked, you know, you laughed with your coworkers, man, people miss that now. Now everything is on Zoom, and so now we're starting to come back and so it's being taken care of slowly. But a lot of people now have self isolated Tony, but they're like, you know what? I'm in a business now where my job is in Texas. I live in Ohio. I don't have to go to the office so I can log in. I'm on a, I'm on a computer all day. I log off. Well, you know, it's kind of cold up here, Northeast. I get the DoorDash, I get GrubHub. My bank, my money goes into the bank deposited. I can shop on Amazon. All my boxes come to me. I, I can go five, six days with no human interaction. It is so detrimental because self-isolation causes depression. Loneliness, you don't have a sense of touch. You're not interacting with people intimately, meaning you're not in somebody's face. You're not, Hey John, here's a handshake, here's a hug. This is a problem. And a lot of people don't know. Once they self isolate, they go down a rabbit hole of self-isolation and it creates a problem, and by the time they figure out they have a problem, it might be too late for 'em. Right. So, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a growing problem across the country.

You know, you know, one of the things, all the things you were talking about in terms of post pandemic, you know, um, GrubHub, right? Um, um, being able to work from home, um, all those things that technology, um, has allowed us zoom, you know, all those things, right? Right. And so obviously you can also say, well, look, to be honest, those things are also a convenience. Because people were, you know, wearing themselves out to be fair, commuting a long period of time. Um, all the other negative things that go along with it, right? People were going to work and felt like I can, I don't need somebody, you know, having me come in here. Um. It's just like being you, being my babysitter. Right? You gotta see me work before you believe that. Mm-hmm. So, you know, there was also that, however, one of the things I wanted to, to bring up here, you know, I think it was a few years ago I saw something National Geographic ID or whatever it was about Antarctica and that they had put people on our art, they were using Antarctica. As a, a, a, a, a preamble to go into Mars. I remember that. Yep. Yep. And they wanted to. And why did they use our, our Anica an Antarctica? There's nothing there. Alright. So at the end of the day, they had, they put humans there and wanted to see how they could, uh, interact with no human connectivity. With no social connectivity because now you're isolated. Okay? And one of the things that's very important is having human touch, is being able to speak to someone. So if you can't do that. And then now we're gonna put you in a rocket ship that's gonna take you seven months to get somewhere.

Mm-hmm.

And then you're gonna be on a planet all by yourself. What would happen to human beings if that happened? Right? Correct. And obviously there's only a few people that can do that. So one of the things that you wrote in your article was about touch starvation. Okay. About now, you know, as being a, being physical human beings and touch. Now people are not doing that. So talk a little bit of what, what touch star starvation is and how it affects individuals.

So touch starvation is the lack of touch that humans, uh, either seek or have, uh, on a daily basis, weekly basis, you know. Or throughout their lives. And so we wanted to include touch starvation in the article about looking glass cell theory, because it's a part of it. The skin is the largest organ on your body, and the skin sends receptors to their brain. So touch is a huge, in, is a huge, uh, how can I put it? Motivating? Or, or, or. Touch is taken so much into consideration in how you perceive yourself, right? If you get a lot of touch, you feel better about yourself. If you don't have a lot of touch, that touch starvation creates a, a sense of lack of self. Yes. Go ahead.

So, real quick question though, I just wanna be clear. When you say you get a lot of touch, what do you mean by a lot of touch? Is it a hug, a handshake? What do you mean?

Yes, absolutely. You know, if you take a look at, you know, for instance in our, you know, New York City. Right. New York City, the people in New York City, they, they don't have cars. They're all walking. They're on the subway, they're touches, even incidental. Got it. Got it. You're walking, you're talking to people, your interactions, uh, it, it, it, it's all healthy, uh, because you have, you know, you get feedback. Your, your body is getting

touched as being a physical human being, right?

Correct. As being a physical human being. Uh, and so lack of touch also creates a problem. So you get positive endorphins when you, when you have touch, the receptors in your body tell you, okay, this is, I'm getting positive feedback and this is helping me understand who I am. I'm happier when I have human interaction and I have touch, you know? And so one of the ways we talked about a lack of touch is if you're not around family, you're not around friends. If you take a look at American society, we have less marriage. We we're having less children. We're seeing each other less. Uh, and I think we talked about this on our other podcast, you know, when you used to be around family and friends, when you went to social events, when you went to family functions, you know, you would hug cousins, you would talk to people even at work, shaking a hand, putting your arm around a coworker, congratulating each other. Sporting events, attending sporting events, the jumping up and down the high five. You know, you, you'd be surprised how much you touch other people if you're venturing out in your daily life. And so that's all important to human development and maintaining a positive sense of self. So touch starvation, we see it in children in orphanages, and we also see it in older people when they don't have a sense of touch, they become lonely, depressed, um, they develop stress, anxiety. That anxiety leads to, you know, suicidal tendencies and thoughts. And so we highlighted if you are seeing family members, if you're seeing friends who are kind of disappearing a little bit, you're not hearing from them a lot, that you seek these people out. You know, Tony, I used to sell life insurance back, uh, a lifetime ago, and I would go into homes and I would, you know, give older people, uh, insurance. And you would walk into the house and, you know, you would see the grandmother there. She's not getting, getting visited by anybody. She's got three cats, you know, the walls are soft. It's damp and air. It's dark. And she's touched, deprived. Mm-hmm. You know, her, her social interaction is so limited, uh, that she's depressed, she's fatigued, she's tired. Um. Just being around other people, man, having healthy conversations, even if they're surface conversations. I can't tell you how much this helps people in their daily lives. You see it. A lot of people who retire, right? They retire,

they die, they lose

their sense of, uh, purpose. Mm-hmm. And the next thing you know, you know, their life expectancy is reduced drastically because their lifestyle changes so much.

You know what's interesting is that, you know, um. Number one, this is very educational. Number two, never thought about how physical touch is so important and part of us, and from a self-esteem standpoint, from a, from a, um, social standpoint. Right.

Right.

How do talk a little bit of how it affects from a mental health standpoint. You know, one of the things that, that when we, again, when we think of mental health, we think, um, somebody's going down a rabbit hole because they're, uh. Mentally off or, you know, they're crazy or, or you know, talk about how touch starvation can, can, you know, affect mental health.

So, you know, your mental health man right now, mental health is one of the most important topics that we can discuss as Americans, as black people. Uh. Because it's so critical to our development and our sense of our identity and our sense of self right now, right? So if you don't have touch, you're not getting any visceral feedback from society. So you don't really, you, you start to lose your own self identity and then depending on how you perceive yourself already, it can exacerbate the problem. So, you know, think about the, the what comes with building stress. The hormones that are released when you have high stress levels? Well, a lack of touch exacerbates that when you do have touch, you get positive endorphins, you get a positive reinforcement that, okay, I'm a good person. I'm light. Uh, let me reciprocate that. Which then, uh, only solidifies that thought, right? So you're touched, so now you reciprocate that behavior. Well, guess what? It goes the same way when you don't have touch. Well, if I'm not being touched, I'm not reciprocating touch. So it's a ugly rabbit hole that you go down when you don't have positive interactions with people. This is why we recommend joining a social club.

Mm.

You know, going to seek out family and friends if you find yourself not being around a lot of people. You've gotta get out the house. You gotta find different ways to get out, talk to people, seek touch, whether you know, massage, uh, going visit fam, going, going to visit family man. It's very, very critical to your self care, uh, that you have positive interactions with people

with. Does this have anything to do in terms of different type of personality types? Right. Because one of the things, you know, and, and let's just go back, let's, let's you know, back up a little bit when we talked about all the convenience that technology has allowed us to be able to order food work from home, um, all these things that we can be able to do, right?

Right.

Um, however, for myself, I'm a touchy feely person. Okay? So I can't. I need to be around people. Right. I now, don't get me wrong, I like, there's times I wanna be by myself and this and that and all, but there's, if I don't, if I don't have people around me, I don't have the energy, I don't feel it's important. I'm a, I'm a hugger, I'm a, all the things that we got finished talking about, but then there's other people that, they're just not that way. Right, right. So does, does personality affect this one way or the other?

I think it does. And a lot can be said for an introvert versus an extrovert. Right, right. I'm, I'm the same way. I love talking to people. I'm a, I'm a touchy feely person. Touch is my love language.

Right. It's my love language as well. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, for me, uh, I thrive in it. I desire it, uh, I initiate it. Um, and so for me it's important. Now I have two kids that are introverts. And I, I, you know, I used to always, you know, Hey, get out there and do this and do that. And, um, they are like that. I'm, I'm good. And what I've noticed as they become adults is you kind of have to let them do them. Right. And they're okay. You know, so I have four kids, right? So two of my kids are outgoing. Two of my kids are pretty quiet, and they're, they're reserved. And so what I've noticed is that you tend to, you know, if you're introvert, you're okay having one, two friends. Uh, you don't need a whole lot and you're okay with that. So yes, I think personality types definitely play a factor in this. And if you're the kind of person that doesn't require a lot of social interaction and you're okay, I'm, I'm happy for you. My concern is the people where they may need it. They're not seeking it, and then that creates either a state of depression or they go down a rabbit hole of even a higher degree of self isolation, and then that they become mentally unhealthy behind it.

Right.

So, yeah.

So let me, you know, one of the thing, you know, when I was a kid, uh, and your parents probably taught you the same thing. You know, eating vegetables is good for you. Yeah.

Right,

right. And at the end of the day, they were right. But you were like, this is nasty. I don't want to eat it.

Mm-hmm.

How much of this is people just don't know because again, you, the con, this has been around 1902, I think it was since

1902, since 2

9 2, right? Correct. Right. And, and I read it and I was like, I never heard of it before. It all makes sense, but I've never heard of it before. I didn't even, like I said, even the Antarctica thing, I was like, wow, that I never even thought of that. People being by themselves and they couldn't stand being by themselves. Right. I I never saw that. So how much is this? Is that people are just not aware. They're thinking, Hey, me being by myself is a good thing. Me not touching somebody because I don't know what they got. That's a good thing. Right? Me, you know, not having to deal with people's BS or their issues or them not liking me or making up stuff or whatever. It's a good thing. Right? Right. But what I'm hearing is, is they're creating their own cave that they now is affecting. So how much of it is that? Uh, lack of awareness?

Well, excuse me. It's it, man. You just said a lot there, so I'm trying to figure out.

No, good. My brother. Take your time.

I'm trying to figure out how to break that down because the way that I wrote the article, I wanted to make people aware if you're self isolating. I need you to be cognizant of the ramification of self isolation. Got it. Right. But at the same time, there are people out there who are introverts, who are comfortable, totally comfortable not being around other people, but,

but over they may not know that this can help them go down a rabbit hole.

Listen, why am I not sleeping?

There we go. Yeah.

Why? Why did I lose my appetite?

Why am I cranky?

Why am I cranky? What is going on? You know, like, uh, I used to be a much nicer person. Now I've become more intolerable of other people. Well, we used to be tolerant of other people's opinions. I remember I used to look at other people. I. Fox News. Remember, yo, sometimes I go look at Fox. I just need to know what they're thinking, bro.

I used to watch, uh, what was my man, he died. Um, um, the dude that used to be the staple of Fox, they, I used to listen to his program. Yeah. Every day. I forget his name. Um, he went on ESPN for a minute and then, uh, it, uh, he and it blew up, but whatever we can get to it. But point, uh, yes, yes, yes. Yes. To your point. Uh, Ru Limbaugh, rush Limbaugh, I used to listen to his show. Okay. Yes, all the time. I used to listen to a bunch of people's shows. I'm like, I can't believe they said that, or whatever the case would be. But I would listen because sometimes they would say stuff that I was like, that's a good point, but finish your thought.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you used to listen to the. Opposing side's thoughts All the time. All the time. If we could agree to disagree, then we still went and, and we went to the ball game. And you have friends of a different opinion and a different background. Exactly. Exactly. Now again, bro, if somebody's saying something that you don't like, I'm done. I'm unfriending you.

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Yeah. But we've been friends since third grade. Yeah. But you like green and I like red and so we can't be So you know, now all of this like-minded stuff is creating a perception that I'm right. And if you're wrong, I don't have to listen to you and I don't need to be around you. These are the pro, this is why we have so much red and blue in our country now. Right,

right, right, right. So we've

gotta make sure. That we are tolerant of other people's thoughts. That we're respectful of other people's opinions. And it doesn't mean they're bad. No, they're still an American. They still love their kids. They still big, they still want to, they still wanna be, they're still people. So the thing that I wanted to do in making people aware about the looking Glass self theory is you want to be careful. How you treat yourself, because I think Tony Post pandemic, I don't know if we're kind to ourselves, let alone other people. You know, you see a lot of stuff when you take a look at the social media memes and some of the scrolling that you do, and you say, man, I. You know, people are so mean out here. That's kind of the theme right now of America in 2024 going into 25 is America's not as nice as it used to be. But I don't know if we're as nice as to our, if we're as nice to ourselves as we used to be. I don't think we're treating ourselves well anymore. I. You know, we're not working out like we should. We're eating bad foods. I'm gonna tell you, man, that's a whole nother podcast, is the food that we're eating on top of the, so, hey, yo, yo, yo. You get in the DoorDash, you getting processed food, you're not seeing anybody killing yourself. You know, you look at the same videos over and over and over, and there are videos that you chose. So the algorithm is throwing you more junk at yourself that you're taking in. And now you think the world is this and the world really isn't. Right. Right.

How much is, so let's, let's, let's, let's put a pin in just what you said, right. How much is, um, you know, you isolating you. So let's back up. You said how we are not loving, and I'm mean, I'm gonna paraphrase. Yes, sir. We're not loving ourselves enough like we used to. Right. How much of that. Is based on, uh, pandemic is based on isolation because you are right. Um, you know everybody, what's that old somebody taught me this years ago, they said, uh, happiness is not a noun. It's not a person, place, or thing. Okay? Okay. So in other words, you don't become happy 'cause you got a new house. You don't become happy because you got a new me. All right? You aren't happy because you went to Rome, right? You gotta be happy first. Within. Right. It's a, it's a, a, it's a, it's a always ongoing thing. It's a verb, right? It's not a noun. That means I don't become happy 'cause a noun is a person, place, or thing, right? How much of what's going on today of people not loving themselves and stuff to that nature has to do with the, uh, the, the looking glass theory?

Well, I think it's not necessarily because of looking glass theory. But we're using,

does it play a factor? I should. It

definitely plays a factor because we, we determine our own self value based on so many external factors. How many likes you get? Uh, how many dates do I go on? Look at the dating apps. The dating apps are designed to make, you never get a date, but success supposedly is finding a date. Right? Right. So if you take just, let's, let's use dating apps as an example. Uh, it's, it's, uh, I think the statistics say that a man may have to scroll over a thousand times and swipe right a thousand times to get one match, one, one feedback from a female. Do you understand how devastating and stressful that is to be a man on a dating app and you have to like, or, or try to match with over 1000 women before you get one single female? Uh, to say, Hey, I like you too. Do you, do you understand? Will you understand what that does to your psyche, to your self-confidence? You know, to, to your self-perception. If you're already kind of, you know, maybe I'm a beta, maybe I'm not as tall as I want to be, okay, well, I'm not working out like I should. Maybe I'm not making what I need to make. And you know, with inflation and how hard life is and how hard we are on ourselves. And then when you have social media and all of fakeness, hey, he's got 13 gold chains. He's driving a Porsche. You know, and you read, you know, this athlete got a $800 million four year contract. You going, Jesus Christ, I suck as a human being. I'm failing miserably. I can't even, because I, I can't even

a date.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got a 2% raise, which took me to 40 K. Right. I'm not doing sit-ups like I'm supposed to.

Inflation went up 10%, so Yeah. Bro. Behind.

Yeah. Right. And so, you know. It is so self-inflicting right now. That's my, that's my problem with what's going on with American society is that, you know, we've kind of become an own victim to our own behaviors. Right? Sure. And that's the, that's the reason we wrote the article is we wanted people to kind of wake up realize, hey, I might be in this, and I'm not aware of it. Because when you go to the doctor, they don't treat the cause, they treat the symptom. And we want people to be aware of the cause.

That is an excellent point. Now, what can people do? Hey, I didn't know this. I'm listening to a A A Black Executive Perspective podcast. I went on Code M, I read the article, right? This could be me, right? So what can they do to build a healthier self-esteem? What's your thoughts?

So if you take a look at American Society right now, right? You have more single people than ever. You have more divorced people than ever. And so, you know, a lot of times people say, well, you know, I'm not going out. There's not a lot of places to go. That's just not true. There's so many social organizations that are doing things that you're in interested in. Gardening, clubs, you know, uh, book clubs. Workout clubs, there are travel clubs. There are so many or painting clubs. Uh, you know, you still have the social organizations, NAACP Urban League, uh, ACL U. There's so many things that you can go do. To throw yourself back into being socially not accepted, but being around people. You start there with social interest like yours, where now you're developing friendships, you're developing commonality with other people that jumpstarts your ability to get out the house. Now you have somewhere to go. The meetings are every Wednesday night at seven o'clock, so you're in front of people, right? Get off the zoom, go back to the office. If you have an opportunity where the office is saying, come on back in. Go back in. Go back in, Tony. It's so important because guess what? Remember you're going to the cafeteria for lunch. You're going across the street at the cafe for lunch. Now this the waitress that you used to know. You know again, the guy that sat at table two, your table one that you used to talk to from across the room, you're talking to him again. Go golfing. Go join the volleyball club. You know, there are soccer clubs out there. There are walking clubs. Right. Remember I used to go to the mall, you see the old people walking. Then they went to the McDonald's and they sat there and they talked. We still need that.

Right? Right. It gave

people a sense of purpose and identity and commonality and you, you talk to people with different backgrounds and you got a chance to see and socially interact. Man, we've gotta get back to that.

So the reason I was laughing, because number one, obviously the things that you were saying is, is, is true. Right? Right. But if I'm, like I said, if I'm on the other side of it, I'm like, none of that I'm, you might as well tell me eat vegetables again. None of that sounds attracting to me, you know? So number one, your point of the article makes so much sense, right? To make people aware. What could they do from a baby step standpoint, right? Because all those things that you just gotta finish, say, and look, let, let's break it up. Maybe there are, maybe there are introvert, maybe they're extroverts as well as introverts, but let's just look at it from a personality standpoint, right? For whatever reason, some people just don't want to at this moment for however they got there in terms of interaction and didn't know. That this can is a detriment. This can affect them from mental health standpoint. All that self-esteem, the whole nine yards. Right. What's little steps? Because all those other things have been offered to them a million times. Yeah. They're probably aware of them. Right. And they still don't wanna do it. What little steps could they take that can get them back on that little treadmill? Or it may not be as big as joining a GLO club or, or, or those type things, but it's still giving them that physical touch, still giving them that interaction with human beings outside of social media.

Let me, let me attack this from the other side for a second, if you will.

Yeah,

please. Uh, I wanna throw a challenge out there because we all know somebody in our lives who we don't talk to as much as we used to. Somehow the relationship's falling off. Uh, you don't see 'em as much as you used to. You don't talk to 'em as much as you used to. I'm challenging people that if you don't have a problem in your social surroundings or social circles to reach out to that person, right? Sometimes in order to have good friends, you have to be a good friend. Yeah.

We go,

so maybe we attack this from the other side and we say, okay, you know what? If I see that Bob is not calling me like he used to let me reach out to him. Let me be the catalyst to him getting back. Right. 'cause sometimes throwing that lifeline is all they need.

Right?

Uh, so, and, and because I'm, and I'm only saying this, Tony, because you're right, Bob already knows that all of that stuff is available to him. Right. He's choosing not to engage, right? Correct.

Correct.

Well, Bob needs his friend to call him and say, you know what, Bob, Hey man, I'm coming over.

Well,

no, no, no. I didn't clean up. No, I don't care about that. I'll see you Tuesday at three o'clock.

Or just show up, but just show up. Bob, I'm knocking

on the door. I know you home. I'm coming in. Right? So I think that we have to save each other. Um, Bob doesn't know that he's self isolating, and even if this article tells him he is, he may not have the confidence. Or the desire to pick himself up by his bootstraps, because guess what? Depression set in. Exactly. He's so used to self isolating. You know, I just was talking to, uh, somebody who, you know, they, they said they wanted to work out for 2025, so, hey, guess what? Yesterday they got up and went to the gym this morning I caught him. He said, Brad, it's snow on the ground. I'm not going. It's, it is a what? A dusting of snow. And they decided they're not going. I'm like, you gotta go. You gotta go, because guess what? Once you get there, you're gonna find out, man, my body feels so good. I mentally feel so good. I put myself through so much agony to go to the gym. And guess as soon as you got there, the first three steps on the treadmill, you're kicking yourself going, dang, I cannot believe. I just went through all of that and I'm so happy that I came. You know what I mean? When you know how you get done, you are in a shower, you're like, dude, I feel like, like a million dollars because I worked out.

Exactly. Exactly. Well, and

that's it.

Go ahead. Finish buddy.

I just, I just told him I'm hanging up. You go into the gym, call me when you come back. And he said, damnit, bro. Oh, I didn't mean to cuss. He said, darn it. Darn it, Brad. I, I appreciate you calling me. I appreciate you kicking my butt. I'm going, and so sometimes we have to be that for each other, Tony,

buddy, you are a hundred percent right. And those little steps matter, right? Because even with that one-on-one, I. Going over to Bob's house, Bob is now having social interaction with another human being. Bob, now you shake Bob's hand or you give Bob a hug. Now he's having physical touch. Right? Right. Now you guys are talking about what's going on in the world and you know, you guys may agree, disagree, but there's some, now you know, we are having some verbiage together. Our brains, his brain is being stimulated.

Right? And Bob finds out there, that's not as bad as he

thought. Not as bad as he thought. Right? So those little bitty things can be big things, right? Versus Bob doing all the other things. So I really appreciate you breaking that down. And I love the way you came about it from the other side, right? Because. And I, I, I remember, man, when, when we talked about it in my, uh, last episode when my son passed away. Yes sir. Right? And if you remember, well, you wouldn't remember, but obviously you probably had people, um, pass away in your family. But when that happens, people self isolate. They don't wanna be around nobody. Yeah. They don't want, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I remember, I never forget it. Um, I just wanted to be in a hole. I just wanted to stay home. I didn't wanna talk to nobody. People were reaching out to me. I didn't want anything. Then the doorbell rang and I went to the door and there was my best friends. They just showed up. Just showed up. They came, right. And for that moment, for that hour or two. That they were in the house. And prior to them coming, I was totally against chatting with anybody. But that hour or two what they was there, it took my mind off things. It was better. I felt so much better at that. Just like you talk about when you went to the gym, right? All right. All those things. But they just showed up and it was one of the most important things to help me move forward. Right. So it was a small gesture. They didn't call. 'cause they had, they called, I would've said, don't. You would've said no. Exactly. Don't come. Right. They showed up. So those things are important. Brad. Boing. Final thoughts, my man. Where do you wanna leave the audience?

You know, Tony, I love life. Uh, life is best lived when you're living. Push the envelope, uh, live life to the fullest. If God let you wake up today, you are to get the most out of your debt. Right? And so we wrote the article. As a reminder and as a guide to people to take care of yourself, take care, better care of yourself. And so, you know, I just want people to get everything they're supposed to get. You don't have to have all the money in the world. You don't have to look the best. You don't have to be the brightest, you don't have to have the best career, but you can have purpose and meaning. You have to go out and create it. And so we wrote the article to remind people, love yourself, love those around you. Here are the warning signs. So if you're kind of dealing with some self isolation, if you're not getting as much touch as you need here, you know, here's what you can do to create it, to jumpstart it, uh, and, and to kind of get back to enjoying life like we used to. I think it's so difficult right now, uh, post pandemic to find purpose, to find intention, to find intentionality. And a lot of times, you know, it all starts with one article. It can start with one phone call. It can start with one handshake, bro. And, and so hopefully that handshake, you know, the article was a handshake to somebody out there to say, Hey, we love you and uh, we hope you love yourself.

Number one, I love you.

I appreciate you. I love you too, bro.

Number for you to write this. And again, a lot of the articles you write is all about love because you're educating people on things that they may not be aware of, right? And so this was great and you are a hundred percent right. Um, we, number one, have to love ourselves first. Okay? And we have to take care of ourselves first. 'cause guess what? There's nobody else gonna take care of you. Better than you. Than you, right?

Exactly.

So I wanna thank you for coming on and, and back up. Let's back up a second, sir. What's your words for 2025? Say it again? Purpose and power, baby. Purpose and power. Purpose and power. Yes, sir. And look, buddy, I, I, I give it to you. You came on the show and you provided purpose and power. This article that you wrote, and I know this for a fact, all right? I know this for a fact. When somebody reads that article or listens or watch this podcast, it's going to help a ton of people. So I want to thank you, number one, for having the, the, the, the thought. The thought process of thinking of other people and putting something together that 99% of us have no clue what it is, even though we're dealing with it. That shows how much love you have for your fellow man. So I really appreciate, and then also coming on a A A Black Executive Perspective podcast to share it. Provide more in depth, uh, uh, thought process behind it. So Brad Boland, president Code Magazine, I love you a lot. Thanks for attending my brother.

I love you too. So, and, and let me just say, I thank you for allowing us to come on to talk about this, uh, because, you know, having it be in print and online is one thing, but then bringing it to life, talking to you about it, it makes it so much more impactful. And so I thank you for allowing me to come on to talk, brother. I'm so proud of you. What you're doing, your show, the award that you got, just being one years old bro, keep kicking life in the butt. Keep getting it done and I will see you around the corner.

Thank you buddy. We gonna thrive. We gonna strive and thrive's, right? Live.

Alright.

Alright. You stay right there because you gonna help us with our call to action. So I think it's now time for Tony's tidbit. So the tidbit today, your self worth isn't defined by likes or follows. But by the love and compassion you show to yourself. True confidence comes from understanding that your value isn't dictated by others judgments, but by your own self-acceptance. And you heard a lot of that and more from our, uh, guest, Brad Boland, president of Code M Magazine. So real quick reminder, please don't forget to check out every Thursday. Need to know by Dr. NAA Burton on a A A Black Executive Perspective podcast. Dr. Burton dives into the timely and crucial topics that you need to be a part of and listen to and learn from that shape our community and world Tune in to gain the insight and deepen your understanding of the issues that matter that you may not be aware of. Just like the Self Looking Glass Theory, you don't wanna miss it every Thursday on a A A Black Executive Perspective podcast. So now it's time for our. Beeps call to action. Our goal is to eliminate all forms of discrimination and to achieve this, we're asking everyone to embrace our call to action. Our word less, LESS, Brad Bowling. Kick us off my brother.

So the first L is learn. Educate yourself on racial and cultural nuances.

Exactly. Then after you learn, you have the letter E, which stands for empathy. Right? So now you've learned, now you've understand other people's perspective. You put yourself in their shoes. So now you know exactly what your friends and colleagues are going through.

The uh, first s is share, share your insights to enlighten others.

Absolutely. And then once you share, now you wanna stop. That's the final S. You wanna actively stop discrimination as it walks in your path. So again, if Auntie Jenny says something at the Sunday dinner table that's inappropriate, you say, auntie Jenny. We don't believe that. We don't say that, and you stop it right there. So if everyone can incorporate our word less LESS, we'll build a more fair and a more understanding world, and more importantly, we will. All be able to see the change that we want to see because less will become more so again, continue to follow a A A Black Executive Perspective wherever you get your podcast. We're on YouTube, apple, Spotify, on all the podcasts platforms. You can also follow a Black Executive's Perspective podcast on all our social channels of LinkedIn, X, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook. At a black exec for our fabulous, inspiring, powerful and purposeful guest president of Codem Magazine, Brad Boland. I'm Tony Tidbit. We talked about it. We learned about it. We strove. We strived about it, and we're gonna thrive about it. We love you. And guess what? We're out

a black executive perspective.