Can we make the podcasting technology invisible? This is the

future of podcasting, where we ponder what awaits the

podcasters of today. From the school of

podcasting, here's Dave Jackson. And from the audacity

to podcast, here's Daniel j Lewis. Daniel,

future of podcasting episode 50. Whoo. We're

50. I can feel the gray hairs coming

in. Oh. Dave, I hate to break it to you.

They all came in for you a long time ago. Yeah.

Actually, I was 29 when I got my first gray hair, which was also the

same year I got married. Coincidence? I don't think. I don't know. Anyway,

but we're talking about invisible technology? What what what

what's the idea here? I asked Dave if I could have

another soapbox on this because I wanted to dig into this further, and

I've posted some stuff on x Twitter about this. Way back in

2015, I did a presentation, a keynote,

on the future of podcasting, and we'll have the link to that in the

notes for this episode. I'd love for you to check it out because

while in hindsight, I kind of regret some of the ways that I presented

that, maybe not the most keynote worthy style of presenting the

information. To be honest, I am humbly proud, like in a good way,

proud, happy, I'll put it that way, happy with my predictions

because they're coming true and because they were

unique predictions where many of the predictions that people have for podcasting

basically comes down to the word more. You know, we'll have more of this, we'll

have more money, more podcasters, more celebrities, more opportunities, more this,

more that. Just put the word more in it, and that's all the predictions pretty

much out there. I had some specific predictions, not like

this company will do this thing, but some specific

things of what I think will happen in the podcasting

industry. And one of those was

the technology will disappear. And by that,

I don't mean our technology that we use

or the things that technology can do will cease,

but that the technological aspect of it

will no longer be visible to us. Just like with our

phones that we have and our computers, and there are a lot of things

that we do that are extremely complicated processes

that we do that we have no idea what's going on in the

background. We don't care. We shouldn't have to know what's

going on in the background. We just want to see our latest

email or the latest social post or we want the quick answer to our

question. We wanna know if so and so team won the game last night so

we can get a free donut from Kroger today. That's the kind of stuff that

we want to know. We don't care what kind of technology happens in the

background. I want that for podcasting. Dave, who is

it that you often talk about as your symbol for this? Well,

that would be aunt Cheryl. She's the person that when you go just copy

and paste that, she goes, what do you mean copy and paste?

So we want that person, and there's nothing wrong with aunt Cheryl, by the way.

But we want it to be easy. When I was talking with,

a member of the Apple staff at podcast movement, They

he just said this podcasting 2 point o's looks really interesting. He goes, but it

has to be easy, like, easy. And the

minute you're like, okay. First, you gotta do this and then the thing and

do the hokey pokey and turn yourself. Nope. We've already lost aunt Cheryl.

So it got easy for a minute there when we had Albie

kinda going in. Now we're looking for okay. We tried that.

We can check that off. That did work, but it's not long

term maybe the best solution. And I wouldn't even call that easy either.

Yeah. That's true. It was well yeah. Because you had to okay. Well, first you

have to set up a wallet. And then the other thing was

that nobody ever really asked, which was kinda good, but I didn't get

anybody going. How do I get my satoshis and get them into my bank?

It was always just, how do I set it up to receive them? I didn't

have anybody really, and they want to give them back. And so that was kind

of something I thought was kind of unique and in an

interesting insight that nobody was like, okay. How do I put this in my, you

know, wallet so I can go buy some groceries? And I'm like, well, I think

you can get a Mountain Dew with 4,000 sat, something like that.

But, yeah, that was still too hard. The reason I've been thinking about this a

lot lately is looking at the inflection points within

podcasts and the podcasting industry. And where I

differentiate that is podcasting is the art of making

podcasts. So a podcasting app is an app that

helps you make podcasts. So Steve Jobs was

wrong when he said he was bringing podcasting to iTunes

4.9 way back in 2005. He brought

podcasts. But that was the

first major inflection point for podcasts since their

birth was when they came to Itunes 4.9 in

2005 because well, for me, that was my

introduction to podcasts. Dave, what was it like

listening to podcast before that? Oh, before that, it was insane.

I was using I know on the Mac, it was called iPad or X. I

think it was called Juice, and it had a big picture of a lemon on

it. And I would fire that up in the morning. It would

go out and check for new episodes. And while I was showering

and doing my hair and eating my bra, I'd come down, like, a half hour,

45 minutes. Hopefully, I would have, like, 5

or 6 episodes because there really weren't that many podcasts that I was listening to.

But there was no iPhone. There was no iPad at that point

even. And so I had this little thing called an iRiver 899.

I think it held was either 256 or 528

megabytes. And it back then, it was like, oh, holy cow.

And when you plugged it in, it looked like a little hard drive. So I'd

have to know where Juice had downloaded my files,

open up that folder, copy them, open up the iRiver, paste them

there, wait for it to transfer over, and then I would go out. And I

forget how I had them wired up in my car. I know at one point

I used, like, a cassette converter, and that sounded awful.

And I think I had I think and back then, that was huge. I had

an auxiliary in. It was so I think that's how I ended up plugging

this into it. But what was sad is I would listen to Howard Stern in

the morning. I'd start listening to all my podcasts, all 5

episodes that I had copied over. And by 3 o'clock, you're like, oh,

man. I'm on a podcast. And he was like, well, gotta wait till I get

home. So it was not a fun you know? And and to say the

technology was way like, you know, that's why when

you ask people, do you listen to podcasts? A, they thought you had to have

an iPad once the iPad was invented. That's why the

iPad was such a great thing because I literally would wake up,

plug my iPad into my computer, and that was it. I would

come down later, grab my iPad, and get in the car because everything had

already transferred over. It had already downloaded. And that was the first time

when Apple brought in podcast. It's the first and only time I've ever

actually seen hockey stick growth. Because I remember going into my

stats and just it was just it just shot right through the roof. I'm like,

what is going on? We're like, oh, it's the Apple thing. I was like, oh,

yeah. That might help a little bit. Well, and even before that

so that was complicated enough. How did you even

get the podcast? How did you discover them? How did you

even start downloading them? Where did RSS fit

into this? Well, the the first one, and I think

I have the clip for this, but when I downloaded Juice, the

voice of 1 Adam Curry came out. Nice.

And I was like, hey. I know that guy from the Headbangers Ball. So that's

what really one of the first things that got me into it. And I started

listening to The Daily Source Code, and then he would mention C.

C. Chapman from Accident Hash, which was a radio show. Okay. So

then you hear another podcast or of another podcast. How would

you get that other podcast into your podcast app? Oh,

yeah. You'd go over to let's say I was gonna listen to the scene scene

by Marcus Couch. I'd go over to his website. He'd have an RSS button.

And because we were all nerds, I knew don't click on it. I had to

right click and copy and then go into the Juice

software and paste in the RSS feed. So then it would go out and

check, and you're like, oh, wow. Marcus has, you know, 5 episodes. He's been doing

this a long time. And then you would just wait for them

to download. And then, you know, like, okay. And then you'd

you'd put them on your iRiver and off you go. So those who fell

asleep through all of that wake up. Now we

have iTunes and Itunes

well, now we have Apple Podcasts actually, but Itunes was a major

inflection point in that it made all of that so much

easier that discovering a podcast or adding

a podcast was as simple as pressing

a button to subscribe, and that was it. And it added

it to your library. It would automatically check for new episodes every

I think the default might have been every hour or maybe it was once a

day back then. I forget. But it would check for it automatically frequently.

And if you had an iPad or even for a little while,

the Itunes app would synchronize with a Motorola Razr flip

phone, but you could synchronize your media. And other people

made special little scripts that could then synchronize what was in

your Itunes library with some other third party MP

3 player that you could take with you, and there were other things.

But Apple Itunes was a huge inflection point for

us because it made things easy.

It made it so easy that you didn't have to know what

an RSS feed URL was for a podcast you wanted. You didn't have to

copy and paste. You didn't have to try and do any of that. You

pressed subscribe. You searched for the podcast by name

or by subject, and you pressed subscribe. And we still have that same kind

of workflow today, although the language is mostly followed now, but it's

still the same basic thing. It's now just that simple. You

click or tap and you have it. None of this having to

worry about the RSS stuff. It's there. And

then look at other major inflection points within the podcasting

consumption and podcast creation, like the invention of the

iPhone. So the iPad was way back in 2002, I

believe, when that came out. The iPhone was

2,007, I believe. And so that was after the

invention of podcasting. The iPhone made it even more convenient

because then your device could do some of the synchronization

a little bit more for you, and especially when they started doing things like being

able to download the episodes directly onto the device instead of having

to synchronize through your computer, again, making the technology

disappear. And now people never connect their

smartphones to their computers to synchronize or transfer stuff hardly

ever, and that technology has disappeared. Think about it from the

perspective of the podcasting side. So

creating podcasts, we give Anchor a lot

of grief, but what did Anchor do

to the growth of podcasting? They brought a lot of crap into the

space? Yeah. They also made it easy. The word

crap. That sentence is still correct. They brought a lot into the

space. There was an explosion of interest in podcasting

because Anchor made it so dead simple

that, yes, it was super simple to make a lot of crap, and that's what

happened. But it was a win for the industry

because it was so dead simple. People didn't

have to worry about technology. They didn't even have to worry about

microphones or mixers or stuff like that. It was just open the app, press

record, press stop, type a little bit of text, give it a

title, press publish, and it's, you're a podcaster now with

whatever you just said. You're a podcaster now, and it's in the Apple Podcast

Store and some other places. It made it simple, and that created

a measurable explosion in the growth of new podcasts.

Yeah. A lot of them crap. Yeah. You didn't even need talent.

Exactly. But there are, I think, today,

a lot of talented now podcasters who

got their start because Anchor made it

so dead simple for people. Think about the gear that we

use now with podcasting. Dave, you and I have both

been around long enough to have experienced

having to mess with mix minus. The good old

days. That's something we haven't had to say for years. Right?

Yes. Mixed minus. That was such it was such a thing that, like, once

you got it, you got it. But getting the light bulb to turn

on was not easy at all. There are a lot of people that were like,

so I do what? I'm hearing an echo. What? And it's like, And

then trying to make it work like some gear, you would get these tiny little

mixers because people would hear, oh, I need a mixer to connect with my microphone.

And how do I get the mixer connected to my computer? Oh, now I need

a USB audio interface. And now with this tiny mixer that I only

spent $50 on, how do I do mix minus with this? And

it's, like, it's not possible where you have to do this convoluted thing with

the auxiliary output, the auxiliary sends, or maybe you do something where it's

like the left and right balance of the audio. It starts getting complicated.

Now huge credit to RODE, I think, really led the industry. I'm

not gonna say they're the first on this, but they certainly

led and continue to lead the industry with the innovation of the RODEcaster

Pro. And that one device, when the

Rodecaster Pro came out, that one device

designed for podcasters made so much of the

technology just disappear. Yes. There's a mix minus

toggle switch inside of the Rodecaster Pro, but that's

it. And I think out of the box, it's doing the mix minus

for you. Yeah. So you don't even have to think about

it at all. It just works. When I

first got the Zoom PodTrak p 4, I was going through all

the menus looking for the mix minus setting, and it was

so bad. I actually had to look at the manual.

I was trying to think, what is it? And then finally, you know, I think

I emailed support, and they're like, yeah. It's just there. It's on already. You don't

have to turn it on. And I was like, this is amazing. So,

yeah, it's that's another one where you take it for granted. It's kind of

funny now when you stumble across old pieces of

technology and you're like, oh, I remember I remember mixed minus. And I remember,

you know, you even right there, you said you the whole panning sometimes. You could

pan things different ways to get separate tracks, all sorts of weird it

was just we're all just hacking everything good because nothing was made

for podcasting yet. But that technology, the

actual thing that technology is doing hasn't disappeared, but our

view of the technology has disappeared that now it's just we plug it in, we

turn it on, it is plug and play. Or even look at stuff

like as much hate as we give to the Blue Yeti microphone.

Right. It was accessible. It was easy for people. They

go out to Best Buy or Circuit City, and they buy the microphone,

or they plug it in, and they start recording. And let's not forget its predecessor,

of course, the brilliant blue snowball.

I always think that there's this doctor who a series of

these episodes with these particular characters, the Ood,

who hold their brains in their hands in a little ball that is then

connect with this like it looks like an umbilical cord to their heads, and their

brains are in the ball. And they talk, and it, like,

glows as they talk. So I always I did this the first time I

held a Blue Yeti. I did I went live on Instagram

video, and I said, you know, we must feed. We must feed

because that was a line from when you meet the oud because that's that's what

it like, it's this giant softball sized microphone,

but it was easy. Yeah. Because you just plugged it directly in. It

was a USB microphone. You're like, wait. I don't need a mixer or anything. Nope.

Just plug the microphone in. So Yeah. And you look at other things

too, like Spotify. Okay. They're doing a lot

that we don't like in the podcasting industry,

but we have to give them credit that like Apple did

with bringing podcasts to iTunes, Spotify bringing

podcasts to Spotify has made podcast consumption

easy for countless people because it's right

there with their music so that they can listen to

their music, they can listen to their podcasts, and now they can listen to audiobooks

through Spotify too. That is brilliant for them to put it all there

and make it easy. It's kind of funny though that

now Apple has split out the different media consumption

from their app. And that might eventually happen with Spotify where we'll have a

Spotify podcast app and a Spotify music app and a Spotify audiobooks

or books app or that might happen someday. But while it's

still all in one app, they made it easy. They made

the technology disappear. They made other podcast

apps disappear. And that is what we

need to do in the future of podcasting and with podcasting 2.0

development and stuff. And I know everything starts out geeky. So I'm

not saying, hey, we need to make this dead simple on

arrival or else it's dead on arrival. I'm not saying that.

I think we need to constantly think of how can we make

this super easy. Dave, you've asked me a

question a couple of times on the kind of advice I would give.

What is that question? Yeah. I had somebody

ask me, hey. You you talk about this 2 point o thing, and they were

talking about the streaming satoshis. And they're like, how do I get started in

that? And I was kinda like, well, you go to oh, wait. You're in the

US. Yeah. And that's where I was kinda I

guess I need to find I mean, I know originally, I I was doing something

with Telegram. I don't even remember how I did it. I just remember there was

this thing, and you put it in. And setting it up on the index is

pretty much the same, but the whole wallet thing is the part that's gotten we're

we're all kind of in a holding pattern right now. I I know we could

do probably something with fountain. I know in terms of receiving

no. For sending sats, Sam over Truefans

has a setup, so it's super easy to fill your wallet and then

send to people. But if you're the podcaster looking to receive,

I'm kinda like, fountain, I think.

So what so what would be your answer to that? What I would

love to say is talk to your hosting

provider, and they can help you get set up with it. Years ago,

now at this point, it was podcast movement, I believe, 2021.

I was talking to Tom Rossi from Buzzsprout, and so maybe he'll remember

this conversation, but I shared a vision of what this could look like. And

this is the vision I would still love to see. It's developed a bit more

since then. And I touched on this previously in our episode about the

future of ad slots. This technology of streaming satoshis

and boostergrams and such, I love it. I love what

we've built. I think it's a fantastic foundation.

Now it's time for all of that technology to disappear

because I think the whole thing of getting a wallet, that shouldn't be

necessary. The whole thing of learning how to

even go to the index or connect your wallet or there's a

hosting provider. I don't wanna throw them under the bus, so I'm not gonna name

them. But they do a lot of things very innovatively. And they have a

field where you can add your value information, but they have this

drop down for when you add your wallet.

And even I, with understanding of some of these

things, I sometimes don't know what am I supposed to pick from

these things that use the Cyrillic alphabet, but I

have no idea what that means. It's like, is it

the the, you know, the x y z wallet type or is it

a satoshi or is it a a whatever, a hash or is I don't

even remember what it was, but I remember that someone

else, unless they were told, use this option,

they're not going to know, and they shouldn't have to know. Even just

simply copying your wallet address into your podcast

feed, I think you shouldn't have to do that. So the vision that I

have for this is I would love to see,

let's follow this from the very start. The

podcast apps, I think, should make wallets

where the podcast consumer simply

purchases tokens. We don't even have to call it Satoshis. We can because that's

probably what's going to power it. But we could call it credits,

tokens, Satoshis, whatever. They put

some money into this podcast app. That

app then converts that to whatever digital

currency necessary, and then the podcast

consumer can choose where that money goes.

Then the podcast app will send that to the podcaster.

Now the podcaster, of course, needs a way to receive that money. That's where the

podcast hosting providers, I think, need to get into this. And I know there

are certain concerns about custodial wallets

and cryptocurrency exchanges and some of this stuff.

I think and I I am not a lawyer on this.

Please keep that in mind. So this is not legal advice.

But my perception of things looking at the

industry is that when you are

handling and holding someone else's money, that's when things

get complicated. But if you are selling them something

or you are regularly paying them out for something, that's when things are

simpler. Like you look at all of these affiliate programs that you can

join. I have an affiliate program for Podgageman. I'd love for any podcaster

to join that affiliate program and recommend it to other podcasters. Most of the

way that these affiliate programs work is that you earn a certain amount of

money. And then probably once a month, usually near the beginning of the month

or maybe near the end of the month, you get paid what you have

earned up to that point or up to a certain cutoff point

for accounting for any kind of refunds or anything like that. They're

not managing your money for you. It's you've earned this

amount and we will pay you this amount at the end of this

particular term or waiting period or anything like that. That's the way it could

be for podcast hosting providers where they set up

maybe they need only a single wallet on their

side. So they set up their own Albi Hub or whatever technology

they need to do that is invisible to the podcaster. They

receive the payment. With the payment, there's the information of what

podcast it goes to, what episode it's for, you know, all of that stuff that

currently we talk about being in the TLV record. Maybe it will be in some

other thing like an activity stream in the future. Whatever technology that

is, doesn't really matter in this context. But they get that information.

They then can add that to a balance to

the podcaster, and the podcaster can then either

set up something that's automatic or maybe it's a manual payout,

but then just they decide, I want to get my payout,

and then it goes out to some other place where it's less

complicated. Like, you look at Coinbase, what Coinbase has done in the United

States. Coinbase is working really hard to follow all of

the laws, and they're doing a much better job than places like Binance

US and many other places who had just decided, nope. We're not going to

even serve people in the United States. Or if you're from the US, you cannot

use our cryptocurrency platform. But Coinbase, it's

even a publicly traded company. I do not own stock in Coinbase. I do

use Coinbase, but I don't I'm not invested in them currently.

They do have a lightning wallet feature, but it's the

traditional style where it does this kind of invoice

thing in the background that is still a little bit technical.

But to get that money then from the podcast hosting

provider to your Coinbase wallet, From Coinbase,

then you can take that cryptocurrency, convert it

to dollars, deposit it into your bank account. And even

that could be a little bit easier. Yeah. But I think that

is fairly easy right now. Once you're in that

space of having an exchange account, you're very familiar with the concept

of depositing and withdrawing and converting between different

currencies and tokens and such. But this whole process

should be invisible. I think it should be as simple for the

podcast consumer of, I wanna upload $10.

How many credits does that give me? Okay. It gives me this many credits. I

want to disperse these credits across these podcasts in this particular way.

Those podcast hosting providers receive that, then

they disperse it to the podcasters, then the podcasters can choose when they

want to redeem that, or maybe they just withdraw it when they want

to. That's what I'd love to see. Yeah. If you think about it,

PayPal, if you think about all the stuff that goes on there where

when you say I wanna pay $18 to Daniel

using PayPal, it goes behind the scenes, goes to my

checking account, removes $18, sends it to

Daniel, goes into his PayPal, and then Daniel can throw it into

his account. And it's not invisible because you have to click the

PayPal button. But once you log in, you're done. At that point, it's

really easy. So if you think about in the I don't remember

what I really don't remember what life was like before PayPal. Right.

I guess you had to send somebody a check. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's

been around for a long time. But and now there are other

you know, there's Stripe. But Stripe has a thing called link now that

when I go to stuff, because I've used it once, it's like, oh, do you

wanna use your link information? I'm like, sure. And it puts in

everything. I think the only thing I have to do is put the little three

digit code for my credit card to to prove that it's me. So that's pretty

seamless too. So, yeah, if things are getting easier, we just need

to and like Daniel said, we aren't gonna do this

overnight, but that's where we wanna go. Yeah. And when it gets to that

point, I think that's when the companies like Apple who are

saying, you've got to make this easy, that's

when they can start supporting that same kind of thing too. And in the

background, maybe there can be multiple protocols. I

think Bitcoin is a great way to do this because what we can do through

specifically the lightning network with Bitcoin, Maybe it's something

else that can come about in the future. But the whole point is whatever

technology is happening behind the scenes, podcasters

and especially podcast consumers should not have to

care at all what it is. It should just

be a seamless transfer of value

from the consumer to the podcaster.

And if a few places in between take a small

cut, that's okay. As long as, of course, they disclose that.

I think that's totally okay and should be that way because those

places have some expenses when processing these things. And

also they should be compensated for their work that they're doing

in making the process easy. And to throw this back to the episode where I

initially kind of shared a little bit of this idea when we were talking about

more potential for ad slots, Sam Sethi from truefans.fm

had sent us a boostergram, and we didn't read that in our last note.

And he had mentioned something about our not reading that, and that's, I think,

a a great conversation to have. But something that he wanted to point out

and something that we briefly touched on in that episode is

another layer to this that we can still

think about. And what he said in his comment is the extra twist

is the user in their settings can set a minimum streaming

value. For example, 100 sats per minute for your

time and attention to listen to an advertisement.

If the advertiser only offers 10 sats per minute in

then the advertisement is skipped by true fans. However,

if the value offered is 100 sats per minute or

more, then I hear the advertisement. But I still have the choice

to skip if I don't like the advertisement and the streaming sats

stops so the advertiser is not paying if I don't listen. So

this is talking about some cool things you can do that Sam is doing with

True Fans, not only the option for the podcaster

to pay their audience in sats if they listen to

ads, but also certain things, ways that the

podcast consumer can change how they're paying

in sats and some of the skipping and stuff that goes on. That kind of

thing, the way that I explain that is probably kind

of confusing and scratching some people's heads. The idea here that I

want to touch on and why I'm bringing this in right now is that can

also disappear, but potentially be reserved

for apps that are promoted specifically for this thing.

So imagine if, like, with this podcasting 2 point o stuff that we've got with

value and all of these other great features, you can promote those

apps. And then you could even tell your audience if you would like

to earn some satoshis listening to my podcast or if you

want the opportunity to hear my podcast ad free while you're

streaming satoshis to me or exchanging value or

whatever language that we use, streaming payments would be better,

then use this app. Use Truefans or use whatever

app because then that unlocks these new things or

that helps you to skip the ads if you are paying this amount. So

then you are incentivizing them with an experience. That

experience could be skipping ads. That experience could be

getting paid for listening to the ads if they switch

apps, but still making that technology

aspect disappear. That's what I would love

so much to see. I know that a lot of this stuff is still

technical, and it will continue to be for a little while.

Because even back in the early days of podcasts and

podcasting, it was technical. That's why it was predominantly

tech based shows and predominantly men because

techy stuff stereotypically attracts more men than it

does women. But that has changed over the years

as the need for the technology aspect has

changed. Then now it's made it more accessible for people

who don't care about the technology. That's the thing

I would love to see is that for podcasting, well, it is basically

mainstream now because the majority of the population consumes podcasts at least

on a monthly basis. To make that even higher, I think

we need to make it so simple that people don't have

to think about technology to get it. It's not like podcasts are only

for geeks. And and I think we've crossed that point years ago of that

impression of, oh, podcasts are only for geeks or even the

impression that, oh, podcasting, creating my own

podcast is only for the geeky people who know how to work the technology.

No. It's now much simpler. So now the people who

don't know about the technology, don't need to know about it, don't have the

time, don't care about it, can still create

podcasts and distribute it through the podcasting ecosystem

without the technology because the technology is

disappearing. And that's what we need to do. With all of these

innovations in Podcasting 2.0, I plead for everyone thinking

through new innovations. Focus on how it's going to help the

podcast consumer first. And keep an eye to the

future of how can we make this technology disappear.

For the podcaster, maybe it's as simple as toggle the

switch or fill in this field with something super easy.

And for the consumer, making it that easy to

toggle this, enter your credit card information, start sending money to your

favorite podcasters, whatever that is. That's my dream for the

future. To dream the impossible

dream. Yes. It's not just for old geeky guys. Now

it's for wives who wanna secretly learn how to murder their husband and get away

with it. Well, see, I wasn't going to go stereotypical. You're the one

who Well, another thing, though, that has it's it's

slowly being phased out. I know with Patreon,

if somebody wants to listen to your show

not on the Patreon app, they have to still right click on the

RSS feed and copy and paste it where things like Supercast,

you basically when it signs up, it goes, oh, hey. You're on an iPhone. Do

you wanna listen to this in Apple Podcasts or I see you have Pocket Cast

installed? It somehow has some magic voodoo going on that it

knows what apps are on your phone and says you wanna listen to this one.

You go, oh, yeah. Pocket Cast. I love that app. Click. You're done. So

that's something else that's, again, getting much easier than it used to

be. And even that can still disappear to the point where you don't even have

to present that choice. It's just, I wanna support this podcast and get

this bonus content or skip the ads or or whatever.

You do that all within the podcast app. You never leave the

podcast app. You never have to switch your feeds or anything like that.

It just works. Yep. And it's possible. It

it it really is. Well, you mentioned the one Boostagram.

Do we have any other boostograms? We had the one from Sam. We also got

one from creativity found, and we mentioned this in our last

episode, but we didn't read the message. And so to read that message,

creativity found said it came a bit late to this episode. This was about the

episode Podcasting More Than Just Podcasts. They said,

holiday listening and liked the discussion around what more

slash differently you can do with a podcast format. I have planned a step by

step course format around the future of podcasting 2.0

with explainer episodes where guests tell me what the thing

is and why it's good, then practical episodes teaching the

listener how to do the thing. Still a talk show, but we'll

use the 2.0 features to teach the 2.0 features. I

love meta stuff like this. Inspired by books I

have worked on as a text editor, and this comes from Claire

Creativity Found. Thank you so much for that boostagram, Claire.

238 sets. And that boostagram, by the way, from Sam was

204 sets. So thank you so much for those boostograms. And we

continue to receive streaming satoshis too from, like, Brian Entsminger,

Randall Black, and Johns Creek Studios, Sam, and others. So

thank you so much. And as we record this, we hope this is

temporary, but we usually look at our boostograms

through Saturn. It's saturn.fly.dev. And

right now, they're not having a good day. We got a whole lot of nothing

and spinning going on. So hopefully the guys and gals at

at Saturn are figuring out what's going on. That's always kind of

spooky when you see that. I I love their dashboard. It was very easy. That's

where we could see who our top supporters were and things like that. So, hopefully,

they've just got, I don't know, a power outage somewhere,

something super simple to fix, though. Alright, Daniel. Future

podcasting episode 50. That is gonna do it for this episode.

Thank you for letting me have a soapbox again, and remember, keep

boosting and keep podcasting.