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Track 1: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. And now on to the show.

Track 1: Hello, this week on Left of the Projector, we are bringing you another fresh

Track 1: from the box office, a box office drop.

Track 1: We'll be discussing the new Nia DaCosta film, 28 Days Later,

Track 1: The Bone Temple, which is the second in a new trilogy from the original series.

Track 1: It stars, of course, Ray Fiennes, Jack O'Connell, Alfie Williams,

Track 1: Aaron Kelman, and Chai Lewis Parry. It was written by Alex Garland and,

Track 1: of course, produced by Danny Boyle, who created the initial film 28 Days Later.

Track 1: I have Bill with me today. How are you doing today?

Track 2: I'm doing well. Snowed in as you are, I believe.

Track 1: Yes. Everyone up here in the Northeast, lots of snow going on.

Track 2: Honestly, I think it's most of America right now.

Track 1: Yeah. Or if they're not snowed in, they're just like deeply frozen and it's

Track 1: negative 8 million degrees.

Track 1: Yeah. But this film is, I was, well, let me, we didn't do an episode on the 28 days, 28 years later.

Track 2: No.

Track 1: And we don't need to necessarily talk about that. But I'm wondering,

Track 1: being that the two films came out so close together, do you think that was a bad choice?

Track 1: I'm seeing a lot of people saying that they think it was, but only because the

Track 1: first one didn't do as well as maybe they thought. And then now this one is

Track 1: suffering because of it.

Track 2: But I'm curious to why people think that waiting would have made that made an impact on that.

Track 1: Yeah. I mean, the theory I heard, and again, this is like from people who are

Track 1: like really into looking at, you know, how much movies make and all these things

Track 1: as indicators of anything other than nothing.

Track 1: Is that because the first one didn't do well, they're like, oh,

Track 1: I just see another movie with the 28 days later.

Track 1: Like, why would I go or 28 years later? Like, why would I go see that if I didn't

Track 1: really like the one before it?

Track 2: I mean, I don't really like, I don't really get that.

Track 2: Um, I, I mean, I also don't like, you know, track, I don't try box office shit.

Track 2: I'm like, you know, you know, I mean, I've watched every 28,

Track 2: you know, every movie in the 28 days later, like, you know, franchise.

Track 2: I, I do think that 28 years later, I don't think it matters that it came out

Track 2: close to it because honestly, any of the problems people had with the 28 years

Track 2: later, they're going to have the same problem upon temple.

Track 2: This movie is in the same vein as Bone Temple. I mean, I'm sorry.

Track 2: Bone Temple is in the same vein as the first 28 years later in many ways.

Track 2: So anybody that doesn't like the first one isn't going to like this one.

Track 2: It's going to suffer from the same misunderstandings and honestly misconceptions regardless.

Track 1: Yeah, I liked this one more than 28 years later, and I liked the first one.

Track 1: Like, it was good. But I do know a few people who didn't like the first one

Track 1: who actually did like this one more.

Track 1: I mean, maybe they didn't hate the first one, but they definitely like this

Track 1: one more, which is interesting because in some ways, I hate this term, but like, less happens.

Track 1: Like, it's a very short period of time, and there's sort of two simultaneous

Track 1: plots that are happening, and then they sort of mix together.

Track 1: And if you'd seen the previous one, you start, you basically like,

Track 1: it takes all, it takes place immediately after the first one ended like days

Track 1: later, if not the day later or something.

Track 2: Yeah. If you've not seen the first one and then you go see this one,

Track 2: like you're, you're going to be confused. Like, like you, I,

Track 2: I don't think this movie stands alone.

Track 2: And I don't mean that as a criticism. I also think the first one was an exceptional movie.

Track 2: And I think that people overall, the criticisms against it are unwarranted and

Track 2: largely come from a place of people don't like change and they don't like growth.

Track 2: and they go into things like this expecting one thing and when they don't get

Track 2: it, despite the fact that they were not promised that thing.

Track 2: No one promised them 28 days later. Danny Boyle's 28 days later. No one promised that.

Track 2: That's not what they offered. They never promised that. If you went into it

Track 2: and expected that and they came out of unhappy, that's on you.

Track 1: Yeah. And the other thing I was looking at, the first film, 28 years later,

Track 1: not the first in the franchise, 20 years later, made $150 million on a $60 million

Track 1: budget. So it didn't even do badly.

Track 1: So that's why I don't buy. The new one has only made $46 million on a $63 million budget.

Track 1: and this is going to be one of those cases

Track 1: where i think in 10 years people are going to look back and say like that

Track 1: movie was actually awesome the people who didn't see it and

Track 1: the box office and critics or whatever like they're just idiots

Track 1: you know it's one of those reappraisals and for

Track 1: people who don't also know the director uh nia da

Track 1: costa she has had two films released this

Track 1: well i guess the other one was the end of last year was head

Track 1: was heda which i have not seen and i need to go

Track 1: see because i've heard it's really good she also directed the reboot of candy

Track 1: man which was excellent amazing and the marvels which i think is also maybe

Track 1: one of the more underappreciated marvel movies and probably suffers less from

Track 1: her being involved than marvel and disney just being shitty but.

Track 2: Also because brie larson and women and sexism like let's be honest like i don't

Track 2: think Like most people, most people, the average viewer,

Track 2: like, I don't mean to be, because I include myself in this, the average person

Track 2: that watches movies does not pay attention to the director is.

Track 2: Like, this is something that people who like movies need to come to terms with.

Track 2: Like, movie people need to come to terms with the fact that the average person

Track 2: that watches a movie does not give a shit who the director is.

Track 2: They don't know and they don't care.

Track 1: Yeah, you're true. It's true. I sometimes forget that as someone who like carefully

Track 1: knows these things like knows other movies they've made yes you're you're you're right that.

Track 2: I personally, like, I know very specific directors, and, like,

Track 2: there are times when, like, I know directors, but, like, for the most part,

Track 2: it's not the first thing I look at at all. It's far from the first thing I look at.

Track 2: I think the Marvels really didn't have any, like, Marvel suffering had nothing

Track 2: to do with Nia Dikasa, but everything had to do with every other woman involved

Track 2: in that movie, and the sexism against those women.

Track 1: Yeah, that's true.

Track 2: She was spared the sexism because nobody knew that she was the director.

Track 1: That's true yeah and i think separate from that

Track 1: like talking about the movie today because we said how 28 years

Track 1: later bone temple is literally just days or

Track 1: less later than the first one it's kind of like a spoiler for the first one

Track 1: like if you haven't seen most likely if you haven't seen if you've seen the

Track 1: bone temple you saw the first 20 years later because it wouldn't really make

Track 1: a whole lot of sense so just like as a spoiler of spoiler double spoiler you

Track 1: know alert but the the The film, like,

Track 1: leads off with the child who's in it, who's Spike, who, like,

Track 1: escapes or is sort of had gone to Ralph Fiennes, who was a doctor,

Track 1: to try and get some help for his mother in the previous film.

Track 1: And he is now sort of, like, abandoned and comes across this group of the Fingers,

Track 1: which is led by Sir Lord Jimmy Crystal, played by Jack O'Connell,

Track 1: who is absolutely incredible in this movie.

Track 1: I mean, pretty much every movie I see him in, he's incredible.

Track 1: And this is no exception.

Track 1: And he has this group of fingers, which is a bunch of other people that wear

Track 1: blonde wigs and all go by the name Jimmy.

Track 1: And they have this, he's essentially the child or the son of the Satan.

Track 1: And they're out to basically...

Track 1: What would you call it? Get retribution for the, you know, for,

Track 1: I don't know. What would you call it?

Track 2: They are serving old Nick's purpose because old Nick, Satan,

Track 2: has unleashed his demons upon the world, the infected.

Track 2: And they are fulfilling his purpose of cleansing the world of the people that are left, basically.

Track 2: They perform what they call acts of charity, which are all just various brutal

Track 2: methods of murdering people, which is really at the heart of it.

Track 2: And this is why I think a lot of people that go into this expecting a zombie

Track 2: movie or a or even a 28 Days Later

Track 2: like movie are going to be not thrilled because this movie really does.

Track 2: take the notion of humans are the monsters to a next level and that it does

Track 2: not require the rage virus for someone to lose their humanity and in fact the

Track 2: people with the rage virus there is still someone in there yes.

Track 1: I think i think it's almost goes back to sort of a fundamental misunderstanding

Track 1: maybe even of just like the franchise as a whole as a viewing as a zombie movie

Track 1: like there's lots of movies that are, you know,

Track 1: quote unquote zombie movies or vampire movies where sort of the script is flipped

Track 1: on sort of the typical way you think of zombies, maybe in like Dawn of the Dead

Track 1: or things like that, like the George de Romeo films.

Track 1: This is not like that. This is a virus.

Track 1: I mean, I guess some of them do use similar things like that.

Track 2: I do think that overall, just in general,

Track 2: the way most people, like the way pop culture in general,

Track 2: the reductive nature of the way zombie movies are treated within pop culture in general,

Track 2: I think is displays almost universally a fundamental misunderstanding of the

Track 2: genre because it always is like people focus on the zombies to the detriment

Track 2: of the material and to their detriment.

Track 2: And they, they, they miss the point.

Track 2: This goes back to the conversation we've had before about how people call zombie movies fascist.

Track 2: And it's like, no, they fundamentally display the need for community.

Track 2: Like, every time. It's like, there is never a zombie movie where it's like,

Track 2: oh, yeah, the guy who, the individual that, you know, is like,

Track 2: you know, the prepper is the one who lives and survives. It's like,

Track 2: no, that never, ever happens.

Track 1: No and i i would uh i would encourage anyone

Track 1: who you know maybe doesn't always go into back

Track 1: catalogs or podcasts we did like one of the

Track 1: very early episodes of this show was dawn of the dead the sequel

Track 1: to night of living dead and i think that one more than any it's it's people

Track 1: usually say like the original one of that franchise is the best one but sometimes

Track 1: i think dawn of the dead is more interesting from uh in different ways but it

Track 1: really dives deep into that community and like what it is to be zombies.

Track 1: Like the main plot of that is they're at a mall and people are,

Track 1: zombies are like attracted to the mall. Like what is it they're actually attracted to?

Track 1: And a lot of it is their loss of like a communal space where they can actually be together.

Track 1: And this, you see, all of the communities you see that exist in this franchise,

Track 1: the 28 Days Later franchise, is a community trying to like relive a world that

Track 1: no longer exists to them.

Track 1: And generally speaking, they do are welcoming of, people they find,

Track 1: It's hard because the rage virus is different. It's not like a zombie that slowly

Track 1: walks around with his hands up and says, like, I want to eat brains.

Track 1: They actually are just chasing after you and are led by these alpha male jacked

Track 1: dudes who we have in this as well. Yeah.

Track 2: So how spoilery do we want to get here?

Track 1: I mean, I think we can. I think we. Well, usually, I mean, pretty much every

Track 1: episode is a spoiler. But we could.

Track 2: How spoilery did we get? Yeah. on um Predator Badlands.

Track 1: We I feel like we didn't hit the end of it I mean I just did we just did the

Track 1: one or you weren't on it but I did the one on Marty Supreme.

Track 2: Yeah and.

Track 1: We basically went to the like the end I mean granted maybe it's a different kind.

Track 2: Of film because I want to you know a lot of people like you know they complain

Track 2: about these movies and they talk about George Romero and it's like oh they compare

Track 2: it to those but this movie,

Track 2: has one of the most fundamental aspects of like George Romero and like because

Track 2: people hold George Romero up as like the like.

Track 2: The creator of the zombie genre. And then they forget all the things he did,

Track 2: such as implement the idea of the zombies evolving,

Track 2: the zombies having personality, the zombies being individuals.

Track 2: And this movie really with Kelsen.

Track 2: So in this movie, to go back to the first one, Dr.

Track 2: Ian Kelsen, they show him in the first one. He has this blowgun with the morphine

Track 2: darts, and that's how he subdues the infected so that he can basically peaceably

Track 2: coexist with them to a degree.

Track 2: He lives outside of their general hunting grounds, doesn't go in there,

Track 2: and if they come out, he darts them and then kind of just leaves them and they go back on their own.

Track 2: and then in this you see he darts

Track 2: an alpha and then heals the alpha i

Track 2: really loved the nhs joke i thought that was really hilarious i thought

Track 2: that was really funny uh um and

Track 2: over time he develops a relationship with this alpha and it's again it goes

Track 2: back to like the need for community because kelson is alone and you see this

Track 2: like sadness he's like remembering everything and he's kind of reliving everything

Track 2: he lost, but with this infected.

Track 2: And then in the end he actually heals him or at least he makes,

Track 2: he, he makes it, he makes, he makes it so that he,

Track 2: think it's almost like he can control the virus or the rage because i don't

Track 2: think he's totally cured i don't think he lived through all of that those attacks

Track 2: without with i don't think that was uh.

Track 1: Yeah i.

Track 2: Don't think that was totally cured i think he basically he's reached equilibrium

Track 2: with it which isn't in itself its own lesson.

Track 1: And i think it's like a good juxtaposition so as you went through sort of like

Track 1: the ray fines character he's living you know in the in that we we are introduced

Track 1: to this bone temple which is really just kind of a.

Track 1: Memoriam to the dead from this rage

Track 1: virus and on the other side you have Jack O'Connell as

Track 1: you know Jimmy Sir Lord

Track 1: Jimmy Crystal and he is sort of the opposite of

Track 1: this as he's going around there terrorizing people

Track 1: skinning people alive he's forcing Spike

Track 1: who's this little you know how maybe it's like 10-12 years old

Track 1: as part of the gang because he was able to kill someone else

Track 1: in there so he becomes a Jimmy and in the

Track 1: same way like you eventually learn

Track 1: that he is actually just a sad depressed

Track 1: person who probably doesn't believe in any of these things and he's like coming

Track 1: to terms with like do you think that do you think that uh that jack o'connell

Track 1: actually by meeting ray fines and seeing that like you know he's not actually dr nick and he does he

Track 1: Let me see if I can ask her, wait. Is he admitting to him that I'm just making

Track 1: this all up this whole time, which he obviously was, and he was just doing it for control?

Track 1: Like, what do you make of sort of his—the way that the two stories come together

Track 1: is that one of the Jimmys sees Ralph Fiennes and thinks that he is the devil. And so they go to see him.

Track 1: And he, you know, goes ahead of him to meet him first. And obviously he learns

Track 1: that he's not the devil and that he's just this doctor. and they become sort

Track 1: of friendly. He's good to talk to.

Track 1: I don't know. Like sort of coming back and forth on.

Track 2: I think, I think that, well, first of all, we need to talk about like where Jimmy came from.

Track 1: Yes.

Track 2: Jimmy is the child from the first, from the first 20 years later,

Track 2: who watches everybody he knows die to the infected.

Track 2: Yeah. After watching Teletubbies.

Track 2: And then as his father welcomes the infected into the church,

Track 2: raving, and then he watches his father die.

Track 2: Like, I think that all, like all of this is like a, it's, it's a story about

Track 2: deep, deep, deep trauma.

Track 2: And the, the fact that if you don't address trauma and you don't learn from

Track 2: things and you don't have anybody to lean on and you don't have anybody to listen to.

Track 2: And the first person that he was forced really because of the circumstances

Track 2: to sit down and converse with was Dr.

Track 2: Kelson because everybody else he had to put on that show right to maintain his

Track 2: own power for his own purposes in response to his trauma.

Track 2: He had to put on a show all the time. He could never like sit down with like

Track 2: a random person like, hey, so, you know, I'm having a rough time.

Track 1: No, he's acting. Everything he's doing is an act the whole time.

Track 2: Right. And then he basically, through chance,

Track 2: he encounters someone that, due to the circumstances,

Track 2: he is granted the ability to basically sit down and talk to a human being,

Track 2: an adult human being, one-on-one, and really divulge some things.

Track 2: And that is not to say that he is like,

Track 2: you know, he doesn't, he's still

Track 2: guilty of terrible things and deserves punishment, which he receives.

Track 2: But like, I really, you know, this is deep seated, deep seated trauma.

Track 2: And he basically sits down with a doctor and kind of like unpack some of it.

Track 1: And it's, it was like almost sitting down to therapy.

Track 2: Yeah. A hundred percent. Like, I don't think it's, it's not,

Track 2: I don't think it's, you know, it's not a coincidence that this is a doctor.

Track 1: Yeah, I mean, he even says to him, like, you know, you're easy to talk to.

Track 1: And, like, he just stays there. And, I mean, in, like, a real world,

Track 1: he probably wishes he could just, like, live with this guy.

Track 1: Yeah. And have, like, a normal life. Because he's probably the age of his father, too.

Track 1: Like, be a father figure to him. And not have to lead these fingers around just

Track 1: committing horrific crimes.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: And just skinning people alive. And, like, it's also clear that I don't think

Track 1: he actually does any of the crimes himself. He's really just the one who.

Track 2: I don't know. I mean, like.

Track 1: I guess it's hard to say. You don't see him.

Track 2: It's hard to say, yeah. I mean, you know, they also say Manson didn't do all the crimes.

Track 1: That's funny. I was about to just compare him to Manson, too.

Track 2: But he was still a fucking serial killer. I mean, and it's clear that,

Track 2: like, you know, the fingers, not all the fingers, it's like they live in a world

Track 2: in which there is no stability, no security, no anything for them.

Track 2: It's like, because it's also clear, like, they don't.

Track 2: don't all buy into it, you know, when the one is like walking away and she's

Track 2: just basically like talking shit about like the whole, like the dipsy dude dance

Track 2: or whatever from the teletopies. And she's like, yeah, I said, what the fuck?

Track 2: You know, it's like, they don't take that seriously.

Track 1: They don't. It's kind of, it's hearing all that.

Track 1: And this is another thing that I wonder, and maybe this movie suffers from that.

Track 1: Maybe even the previous 28 years later suffers from that is,

Track 1: do you think that people maybe who hadn't either hadn't seen the original or

Track 1: hadn't seen it in a long time were sort of just confused as to who and what these things,

Track 1: you know, they didn't maybe understand what was going on.

Track 2: What, The Infected?

Track 1: Do you think that matters?

Track 2: Well, I mean, 28 Years Later opens up with a screen crawl that explains The Infected.

Track 1: Oh, you're right, it does. I hadn't seen it since then.

Track 2: No, I don't.

Track 1: Okay, okay, so sorry. But this one, they didn't do that because they're like,

Track 1: you just saw that one like months ago.

Track 2: These movies, they were filmed back to back.

Track 1: Which is so interesting to me in the sense that they did that where Danny Boyle

Track 1: only was involved directing lies from the first one.

Track 2: It's an attraic, considering...

Track 2: he didn't direct both of them and they filmed it back to me.

Track 1: I know that's it well i mean i mean they feel like they almost had to in the

Track 1: sense that like they have all these sets for the bone what are they going to

Track 1: do like tear down this big money that's true and also spike would.

Track 2: Grow up and it would be yeah.

Track 1: That's yeah but i think that generally though

Track 1: that like the the the i think the cinematography for

Track 1: this one the bone temple i thought was better than

Track 1: danny boils i thought that the just the the shots

Track 1: and all of the sort of feeling you got

Track 1: from all of the different moments where they there's like lots of it's in

Track 1: both movies too they show lots of shots of just empty fields and mountains and

Track 1: and you know meadows and these things and it's sort of like this is what life

Track 1: is like and it could be this peaceful existence but then you have people like

Track 1: out there like jimmy in the same way like the at the cross of this in my review

Track 1: for this movie on Glitterbox,

Track 1: I said, it's basically sort of the long-standing sort of battle between science and religion.

Track 1: And kind of like at the crux of it, it is because you have this doctor who presumably

Track 1: has found a potential cure or at least somewhat of a cure to this devastating virus.

Track 1: And then you have someone who doesn't care about that and maybe doesn't even

Track 1: really know that actually.

Track 1: I guess he doesn't really tell him he had a cure and destroys everything because

Track 1: of his own ego of having to still prove to everyone that he's the son of, of St. Nick.

Track 2: Yeah. I, I really feel like these movies very much feel like these past two

Track 2: movies very much feel like an evolution of the zombie film,

Track 2: the zombie genre in response to what we are seeing in the real world. Because I.

Track 2: Historically we have mostly focused on

Track 2: throughout history of the genre what we've

Track 2: mostly focused on is survival and you

Track 2: know dealing with this and like coming to terms with it and like survival and

Track 2: this both of these movies very much feel more like it's the reconciliation with

Track 2: what comes after and kind of like confronting the viewer with what comes after large scale,

Track 2: like social devastation.

Track 2: It's almost like a lesson being, it's like, listen, you feel like we are facing

Track 2: right now, existentially as

Track 2: a species on this planet, we are facing wide scale, like climate collapse.

Track 2: We are looking at major fucking problems.

Track 2: we are staring down the barrel at like

Track 2: major social collapse in a lot of ways and what

Track 2: these movies are it's like to me

Track 2: it's like two things it's like first of all the

Track 2: sorry the world will go on the world will go on without you like you as a speak

Track 2: like you are not fucking important the world will go on so you need to make

Track 2: the choice are you going to change what needs to change so that humanity can move forward?

Track 2: Or are you going to hold on and then watch as humanity dies and what's left

Track 2: is open fields for the next thing?

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 2: Or, you know.

Track 1: Yeah, I like that. I mean.

Track 2: What are you going to do? Are you, and are you going to do what Kelson does,

Track 2: which is understand that you need as everybody, as a system,

Track 2: you need to reach equilibrium with the material reality you exist in,

Track 2: what the world has given you. You need to come to terms with that.

Track 2: You need to accept it for what it is and live in harmony with it,

Track 2: or you're going to fucking die.

Track 2: What can you do? You can either be Jimmy and prey on people and destroy what

Track 2: they have built, or you can be Dr.

Track 2: Kelson and you can live in harmony with the fucking world and understand what

Track 2: the material conditions have given you.

Track 1: I mean, basically in that description is Jimmy is the exploitation of capitalism.

Track 2: 100%.

Track 1: And Dr. Kelson is the living in harmony with your neighbors under socialism.

Track 1: I mean, it couldn't be any more blatant.

Track 1: And knowing what I know about sort of Alex Garland and some of his other films,

Track 1: I'll say I feel like his politics can be a little bit—we don't need to go down that rabbit hole.

Track 1: But I think in this case, I think it's very clear what he was trying to show.

Track 1: Maybe he wasn't thinking capitalism versus socialism.

Track 1: Maybe he's thinking, you know, barbarism or, you know, whatever term he wants

Track 1: to have in his head. Yeah.

Track 2: But it still comes down to the same thing. It's like that it just,

Track 2: it always comes back in comparison to most other movies in this genre.

Track 2: You very, so rarely have that kind of like bittersweet coverage of like sweeping,

Track 2: but acknowledgement of what, what was lost, but also like look at the way the world continues.

Track 2: That's not a thing you really say.

Track 1: Usually when I think of a lot of zombie movies that have now,

Track 1: how it's in the future, things are degraded.

Track 1: It's usually cruel and just people are monstrous and they have no willingness to change.

Track 1: They've just accepted the barbarism as that that's the only possible way to live forward.

Track 1: I just think of the movie or the show, what's that show, Walking Dead.

Track 1: I mean, I gave up on that show half a decade ago, but that show is cruel.

Track 2: I've seen it all.

Track 1: Oh, you've seen it all?

Track 2: Oh my God. I've seen it all. much to my dismiss, you know, like much to my own personal victimhood.

Track 1: Yeah, I got to where Negan was like, well, spoiler, I got to where Negan was captured.

Track 2: I do think that part of this has to do with peeing English,

Track 2: honestly, because it does harken back to those like old English ideals,

Track 2: like the romanticism of the pastoral nature of like English history.

Track 2: I do think that's part of it.

Track 1: I mean, that brings me to the very end, the final scene of the film,

Track 1: when they're literally talking about the history of, I mean,

Track 1: granted, not in the same way you're describing, but you still have to understand what came before you.

Track 1: And I think most people are unwilling to even do that in today's society.

Track 2: Yes which no one will learn from the past big spoiler okay so if you don't want

Track 2: to hear the ending of a big spoiler cut now and by cut i mean stop listening,

Track 2: the ending of the movie we cut to uh

Track 2: killian murphy and his daughter um

Track 2: only we only said and she is studying for upcoming quit or test which he is

Track 2: clearly like administering he's the And they're talking about post-World War

Track 2: I behavior of European countries and how it led to World War II.

Track 2: And the classic, like, when you destroy your enemy and then leave them with

Track 2: nothing, what do they do?

Track 2: they come back and try to eat you it's.

Track 1: Like the most such a like heavy fisted metaphor that i the but that's because

Track 1: the movie's woke bill that's why that's.

Track 2: Why they did that but i mean like it's such

Track 2: like but at the same time it is i feel

Track 2: like it makes the point that if you

Track 2: know actual history um because he's

Track 2: teaching it from a very it's presented as from

Track 2: a very like you know western bourgeois liberal

Track 2: kind of perspective but if you know actual history you're like well in reality

Track 2: like they still exploited those people still punished them even after world

Track 2: war ii and really all we did was just fold all that in like you know and the

Track 2: allied powers just attacked Soviet Union.

Track 2: When you really, it's like, they didn't keep that problem. He's like,

Track 2: what is it? I forget what he says.

Track 2: Basically, you have to learn the lessons. They didn't fucking learn those lessons either.

Track 2: He makes it be like, they didn't fucking learn those lessons either.

Track 1: You know what's weird is that technically Cillian Murphy's character is uncredited in this?

Track 2: I think it's probably because I wanted to keep him secret.

Track 1: Oh, okay. There you go. I mean, there was a lot of pretty heavy rumors that he was going to be in it.

Track 1: People thought he was going to be in the previous one as like a zombie.

Track 2: Well, they showed that zombie that looked like him.

Track 1: That was very intentional to like people, right?

Track 2: I think they wanted to keep it secret, even though like, yes,

Track 2: there was a lot of rumors, you know, but I think they wanted to keep it secret. I think that's why.

Track 1: Yeah, and apparently he's in talks to be in the third of the trilogy.

Track 1: It hasn't been announced yet.

Track 2: But I mean, I can't imagine. Yeah, I can't imagine I'm not.

Track 1: Yeah. And I think, and you see like the kindness that he shows to save this person.

Track 1: His daughter's like, you know, are we going to, are we going to help them?

Track 1: And he's like, of course we are.

Track 2: Of course we are.

Track 1: And he didn't, he wouldn't have survived the initial 28 days later,

Track 1: if not for other people helping him. So, I mean.

Track 2: Exactly.

Track 1: You see, you see again, like the Ralph Fiennes version of the world actually

Track 1: being necessary. Otherwise you're just going to end up with just, you know, barbarism.

Track 2: Barbarism. Yeah.

Track 1: Death. Killing. I thought that the actress, Erin Kellyman,

Track 1: who played the version of Jimmy that was basically the strongest one of all

Track 1: of them, for the most part. Kind of like the leader of the fingers.

Track 1: She was really good in it, I thought, her character.

Track 2: You mean the one that kind of protects Spike?

Track 1: Yes. I think that she eventually reveals her name is Kelly at the end.

Track 2: Yes, which they also foreshadow if you see when they're hanging out. That's Jimmy Inc.

Track 1: Yes.

Track 2: When they're hanging out by the trees, when they're all watching Dr.

Track 2: Kelsen, she's carving a K into the tree.

Track 1: You're right. You're right. I was thinking about that. I'm like,

Track 1: what is she putting into it?

Track 2: Because she did not.

Track 2: abandoned her identity the others you could tell like they really had abandoned

Track 2: their identity they fully bought into it she had not abandoned who she was she

Track 2: was still holding on to that part of her her humanity yeah.

Track 1: I mean it's interesting like you we didn't really talk as much about the fingers

Track 1: but very clearly these are people who are in a way i almost think of thought

Track 1: of that as kind of like the lost boys in.

Track 2: Like peter pan.

Track 1: But like the version in like the movie the lost boys where they're like not

Track 1: good people they're vampires.

Track 2: And they're just they're.

Track 1: Willing they don't they don't have these are people also that i mean they were

Track 1: born presumably after the beginning of the plague right they're all under 28 years old.

Track 2: Yeah they're all on the 28 yeah but i do think that you

Track 2: know to go back to like you know holding on to humanity we also

Track 2: see that like samson the alpha that kelson

Track 2: um is you know like befriends and forms a bond with the fact that he keeps going

Track 2: back to that train is also again part of that like holding on to this humanity

Track 2: because that's where that's the last time he was a uninfected human as a child yeah.

Track 1: And that's the only is that the only flashback to the real time in any of the movies in the franchise.

Track 2: I believe so and.

Track 1: It's And it's really depressing.

Track 2: Yes, it is.

Track 1: And especially, too, when the person is asking for his ticket,

Track 1: and then it's actually one of the infected that's standing above him,

Track 1: and he just absolutely, colossally, just destroys in that scene.

Track 1: I don't have a ticket. Talk about brutality.

Track 2: I don't have a ticket. And we finally see why the infected behave the way they do.

Track 2: This is not simply a physiological. It is also a psychological.

Track 2: It is a mental illness that is...

Track 2: inflicted upon them similar to where it's like you know it creates a terror

Track 2: of a thing it makes people terrified of other people without the virus i.

Track 1: Mean isn't that what capitalism does though like.

Track 2: We're meant.

Track 1: To hate the people.

Track 2: Around us we're.

Track 1: In alienation have to be in it for ourselves who cares who you step on as long

Track 1: as you survive i mean yeah.

Track 2: It is a virus that creates is schisming and alienation and separates you from other people.

Track 2: It makes other people look like a monster that you have to kill to survive.

Track 1: Yeah, I think that's why you're saying is that you said he doesn't,

Track 1: Ralph Fiennes doesn't fully cure him, but he's able to lift that fog.

Track 2: Yeah. Yeah.

Track 1: Because he's still clearly, you

Track 1: know, I don't want to say like nearly invincible, right? Like he can't.

Track 2: Yeah, he's still he's still fought like fucking like, I don't know,

Track 2: like a dozen of them? came out like okay.

Track 1: And you briefly I feel like briefly you're like I think he's like he might.

Track 2: Die yeah I thought he was gonna die no and then he walks out just covered in

Track 2: gore it's like god damn he also ripped that once arm off you know.

Track 1: We haven't really talked. I mean, we did talk about Ralph Fiennes,

Track 1: but his performance, especially like the big reveal scene with.

Track 2: That's incredible. Just Iron Maiden.

Track 1: One of the best, like Ralph Fiennes. I hate saying this. I hate being like,

Track 1: oh, he's like an underappreciated actor.

Track 1: But in some ways he is like he's in so many. He's been a lot of horror movies

Track 1: recently, which is, I think, is an interesting career choice.

Track 1: Not in a bad way, but like he was in the menu and then he was in both of these.

Track 1: Um, I guess he wasn't in that many horror movies, maybe just those, but such a good actor.

Track 2: So incredible actor.

Track 1: I mean, maybe he's not underappreciated. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm like.

Track 2: Yeah, I don't think he's underappreciated, man. I mean, no, no.

Track 1: No, no.

Track 2: Let's see. Wasn't he full list of awards? Yeah.

Track 2: He has, uh, two Oscars.

Track 1: Wait, no, he doesn't. Does he?

Track 2: Yes.

Track 1: No, I don't think he's won.

Track 2: Oh, no, I'm sorry. He was nominated for two Oscars. He has won a BAFTA.

Track 2: He has won a Critics' Choice Award.

Track 2: He has won a Screen Guild's.

Track 1: Has he been knighted by the Queen yet or the King? I believe so.

Track 1: I just made that up, but maybe he was. Maybe he was. Who knows?

Track 1: He's also going to be in the new Hunger Games film.

Track 2: Yes. He has won 13 awards and been nominated for 57.

Track 1: He's not underappreciated. Sorry, he's not underappreciated.

Track 1: He's just a really good actor, and I like him.

Track 1: I also love him in, I mean, this is going back a long time,

Track 1: but he was really good in the movie Quiz Show, also really good in the movie

Track 1: In Bruges, even though he's not the main character, he's really good in that

Track 1: film. So, I love Ralph Fiennes.

Track 2: No, he has not been knighted. Okay.

Track 1: He was Lord Voldemort also in the Harry Potter.

Track 2: Unfortunately. Yes, he was.

Track 1: He was in Skyfall. I'm trying to think what else he was in.

Track 1: I guess he was in several of the new Bond.

Track 2: He's in a lot of movies.

Track 1: Yeah, I just look, in 2003, he was in six films.

Track 1: 2004, he was in three. In Conclave from last year, two years ago,

Track 1: he was nominated for this.

Track 1: Anyway, not underappreciated. He is appreciated.

Track 2: He's in Made in Manhattan, which is, you know, that was, I believe,

Track 2: actually a seminal work of his.

Track 1: Oh, man. Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think if there's anything else about

Track 1: this that, I mean, certainly this is more of, I wouldn't say it's like a short

Track 1: episode, but it's maybe not as in depth as some of the normal episodes.

Track 1: But is there anything we didn't mention or include here that we should have?

Track 2: No, I don't think so. I mean, I do think, you know, if you were going into this,

Track 2: if you're going into this expecting a standard zombie movie,

Track 2: you are going to be disappointed.

Track 2: This is a, this is...

Track 1: And also, it's a sad movie, but also not.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Like, at the same time. Like, it's sad, but then it also kind of has this ray of hope in it.

Track 2: Yeah, this movie is definitely one of those movies where it's like,

Track 2: it is a constant, it is a dichotomy in and of itself.

Track 2: It is constant, like, juxtaposition between the feelings and the presentation

Track 2: within it and, like, how you feel.

Track 2: you know it's like it's heartbreaking but also very hopeful and you know just

Track 2: idealistic or idealist in a way that is fulfilling um and also just like super just like,

Track 2: rough like the jimmy and the fingers like they're brutal people you know but

Track 2: then you switch to ray fines and it's like oh he's,

Track 2: such a caring and loving man and and.

Track 1: You see how spike has.

Track 2: Been influenced by all those things.

Track 1: Yeah i'm really curious if in

Track 1: because presumably like when you see him making sort of like the pills he gives

Track 1: to samson that kind of temporarily kind of cure him he's like writing in notebooks

Track 1: from like you know uh medical journals and books you do wonder in the third

Track 1: film if these are uncovered by...

Track 2: I guess we'll see.

Track 1: I hope if they didn't make the third one of this little trilogy or whatever

Track 1: you want to call it, I'd be disappointed.

Track 1: But this is well worth it. I think we both gave this four and a half stars in

Track 1: Letterboxd. I didn't give it a perfect five stars.

Track 1: And I don't know, maybe it's worthy of five stars. I don't know.

Track 1: I'm usually an over rater with things.

Track 1: I'm like, if I love this movie and I'd watch it again, for me,

Track 1: that's almost a five star.

Track 1: Close to a five. Very close.

Track 2: Yes, I also gave it four and a half stars, yes.

Track 1: Yeah, and I'm not a squeamish person when it comes to, you know-

Track 1: There is a couple of scenes in this that are tough to watch.

Track 2: Yeah. Yeah. I am far from squeamish. And there was, there was some scenes I was like, cool. Okay.

Track 1: Well, if you're listening to this episode, you can of course,

Track 1: subscribe at left of the projector.com or patrion.com slash left of the projector.

Track 1: And, uh, you can go to Instagram and see what movies we have coming up soon.

Track 1: If you're listening to this one and wondering what's going to be on tap,

Track 1: it's going to be THX 1138, which is a early George Lucas film.

Track 2: And if you go to our show notes, we have all of the links for both the show,

Track 2: but also all the individual hosts, all the,

Track 2: our various socials, including Letterboxd and Instagram and all the other places

Track 2: where you can, I don't know, tell us movies you want us to watch and talk about

Track 2: or yell at us, you know, whatever you, whatever you people do on the internets.

Track 1: We have gotten some, we have gotten some recommendations recently on Instagram.

Track 1: And so those do enter the queue for those out there listening,

Track 1: you know, Unless you pick something insanely crazy, like if you ask us to watch

Track 1: Red Dawn again, we're not going to do that.

Track 2: I've already committed to watching Black Panther 2 again, which I already feel

Track 2: not great about, so, you know.

Track 1: I haven't seen it since the theater, and I have this weird lack of memory of the movie at all.

Track 1: And so, maybe that's just because I sort of decided I'm going to just black it out in my mind.

Track 2: You memory hold that, baby.

Track 1: I think I just, yeah. But we have that coming up. We've got lots of good stuff.

Track 1: And Ward will be back soon from his quest to find... Gareth Edwards. Gareth Edwards.

Track 1: Ward, hope you find him. We need to chat with Gareth.

Track 2: Yeah, we need to get that chat.

Track 1: All right, everyone. We'll catch you next time.