1 00:00:05,930 --> 00:00:10,555 Well hello and welcome to The eCommerce Podcast with me, 2 00:00:10,565 --> 00:00:11,935 your host, Matt Edmundson. 3 00:00:11,935 --> 00:00:12,675 Sorry about that. 4 00:00:12,675 --> 00:00:16,265 My voice went a little bit hoarse at the start, but welcome to the show. 5 00:00:16,595 --> 00:00:18,205 Hopefully it's going to carry on working. 6 00:00:18,565 --> 00:00:19,245 That's bizarre. 7 00:00:19,245 --> 00:00:20,325 This is working all right a minute ago. 8 00:00:20,545 --> 00:00:24,725 Anyway, this podcast is all about helping you deliver eCommerce well. 9 00:00:25,045 --> 00:00:29,495 And to help us do just that, we're chatting with today's guest, 10 00:00:29,605 --> 00:00:35,005 Kristians Sikora from Aime Media about maximizing Google Ads. 11 00:00:35,410 --> 00:00:38,970 Performance Max and Customer Acquisition Strategies. 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,870 I mean, that's a heck of a topic, isn't it? 13 00:00:41,370 --> 00:00:44,650 And so we're gonna get into all of that, just turning my phone off. 14 00:00:47,050 --> 00:00:52,800 Now, before we jump into it, let me tell you, be like me, put your phone in Do Not 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,600 Disturb before you hit the record button. 16 00:00:55,210 --> 00:00:57,820 We are gonna let you know about the newsletter. 17 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,830 Now, the newsletter is an awesome piece of kit. 18 00:01:01,830 --> 00:01:04,080 If you've not already subscribed, why not? 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,000 If you're a regular to the show, uh, you should be subscribed. 20 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,230 If you're new to the show, check it out, just go to ecommercepodcast. 21 00:01:09,860 --> 00:01:13,610 net, sign up to the newsletter because each week, all of the tips, the 22 00:01:13,860 --> 00:01:17,900 strategies, the notes, the transcripts, they all come straight to your inbox. 23 00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:19,900 Don't even have to lift a finger, it's awesome. 24 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,260 Now, this show is brought to you by the eCommerce Cohort. 25 00:01:24,620 --> 00:01:28,920 The eCommerce Cohort, if you don't know, is our monthly membership group where you 26 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:35,110 get access to some amazing, uh, workshops around the topic of eCommerce from amazing 27 00:01:35,110 --> 00:01:37,450 people all over the world, many of whom. 28 00:01:37,965 --> 00:01:43,425 Have been amazing guests on this show, so do go check them out, uh, this week 29 00:01:43,435 --> 00:01:47,205 we've got Claire Daniels, uh, this week, this month, next month, November, coming 30 00:01:47,205 --> 00:01:52,285 up, we've got Claire Daniels, uh, doing her workshop, which I'm super excited 31 00:01:52,285 --> 00:01:55,535 about, all about marketing, so you're not going to want to miss that, she was 32 00:01:55,535 --> 00:01:58,095 a great guest, so do come check that out. 33 00:01:58,095 --> 00:02:00,035 Prices start from just 14. 34 00:02:00,036 --> 00:02:00,385 99 a month. 35 00:02:01,110 --> 00:02:01,930 It's pretty low really. 36 00:02:02,060 --> 00:02:03,620 Uh, so yeah, come and check it out. 37 00:02:03,650 --> 00:02:08,140 eCommerce Cohort dot, that's eCommerce Cohort dot com. 38 00:02:08,140 --> 00:02:08,350 Right. 39 00:02:08,450 --> 00:02:09,520 That's the show sponsor. 40 00:02:09,850 --> 00:02:16,170 Let's talk about Christians, an eCommerce wizard with a golden Google ads touch. 41 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:16,730 Love that. 42 00:02:16,730 --> 00:02:20,990 Turning eight figure budgets into success stories across the glove from 43 00:02:20,990 --> 00:02:23,910 boosting numerous under the radar brands 44 00:02:23,940 --> 00:02:26,870 to cofounding an agency that's rocked over 20 million 20 million in ad spend, 45 00:02:26,870 --> 00:02:28,341 ah be nice to have 20 million to spend on ads in a lot of ways, wouldn't it uh 46 00:02:28,341 --> 00:02:40,221 he's mastering, google now Kristians', 47 00:02:40,221 --> 00:02:40,625 not just a strategist he's the go to guy for making. 48 00:02:40,625 --> 00:02:41,560 ecommerce magic happen. 49 00:02:41,610 --> 00:02:43,970 Kristians great to have you on the show. 50 00:02:44,590 --> 00:02:45,560 Loving your bio, man. 51 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,860 The go to guy for making eCommerce magic happened. 52 00:02:49,210 --> 00:02:50,280 No pressure there, then. 53 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:56,400 Um, yeah, that's probably the, the touch of one of my, uh, partners at the agency. 54 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:04,030 So he loves, he loves talking me up, but, uh, yeah, um, that, that puts 55 00:03:04,030 --> 00:03:06,990 some, uh, some pressure, honestly. 56 00:03:07,460 --> 00:03:08,310 It does a little bit. 57 00:03:08,785 --> 00:03:16,005 It's always, it's always exciting to be the go to guy or, or to make, make 58 00:03:16,005 --> 00:03:20,385 the strategy to, to build up that strategy and, and actually see it work. 59 00:03:20,385 --> 00:03:26,365 It's uh, really frustrating or, or nervous at the beginning, but, but uh, 60 00:03:26,855 --> 00:03:29,485 yeah, uh, apparently it has paid off. 61 00:03:30,130 --> 00:03:30,740 very good. 62 00:03:30,850 --> 00:03:34,800 Well, you know, it's, it sounds like it's paid off, which is, which is awesome. 63 00:03:35,260 --> 00:03:37,920 I actually think your bio was rewritten by Sadaf. 64 00:03:38,265 --> 00:03:39,575 Uh, is what tends to happen. 65 00:03:39,585 --> 00:03:42,915 So you send your bio in and Sadaf normally goes, yeah, I'm just 66 00:03:42,915 --> 00:03:44,135 going to jazz that up a little bit. 67 00:03:44,565 --> 00:03:47,565 Uh, cause she just does that with every single guest on all our podcasts. 68 00:03:48,305 --> 00:03:51,375 Um, and nine times out of 10, the guest sits there listening to me 69 00:03:51,375 --> 00:03:58,855 reading the bio going, I didn't write that, but it sounds really good. 70 00:03:58,855 --> 00:03:59,445 I'll take it. 71 00:03:59,885 --> 00:04:03,295 And so the amount of requests we get for people from guests to say, 72 00:04:03,295 --> 00:04:04,635 could you just send us that bio? 73 00:04:04,635 --> 00:04:06,465 So then it appears on their LinkedIn or whatever 74 00:04:06,465 --> 00:04:06,755 is quite 75 00:04:07,035 --> 00:04:08,055 actually, that would be nice. 76 00:04:08,055 --> 00:04:08,345 Yeah. 77 00:04:08,580 --> 00:04:09,760 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 78 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:11,960 So whereabouts in the world are you, sir? 79 00:04:12,575 --> 00:04:14,855 So, um, yeah, I'm in Latvia. 80 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:16,130 Okay. 81 00:04:16,131 --> 00:04:18,580 Yeah, 82 00:04:18,835 --> 00:04:22,395 been, yeah, basing mostly, mostly here. 83 00:04:22,525 --> 00:04:28,135 Um, and then, uh, yeah, we're, we're kind of doing our stuff all over the world. 84 00:04:28,135 --> 00:04:33,115 So, uh, one of our partners is also in Latvia, other one is, uh, He's a nomad, 85 00:04:33,125 --> 00:04:38,125 you know, traveling around, spent some time in Amsterdam, uh, now he's in Lisbon. 86 00:04:38,135 --> 00:04:42,705 So it's always interesting, uh, how our, uh, kind of work together goes as well. 87 00:04:43,115 --> 00:04:45,865 But yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm here in, uh, Latvia, 88 00:04:46,770 --> 00:04:47,710 It's interesting, isn't it? 89 00:04:47,710 --> 00:04:50,250 Now, because the way the internet is and the way the world is, it doesn't 90 00:04:50,260 --> 00:04:53,790 really matter where you're from, uh, is the, is a genuine response. 91 00:04:53,790 --> 00:04:59,050 It's like, actually, um, we have partners in, uh, Hungary. 92 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,010 We have partners in, um, trying to think, 93 00:05:06,690 --> 00:05:07,580 do we have any in that? 94 00:05:07,580 --> 00:05:14,250 No, we have, um, Well, we got partners in most of those old Baltic nations, 95 00:05:14,250 --> 00:05:18,830 you know, and I, and I, and it, and it's wonderful because I really, one, 96 00:05:18,870 --> 00:05:21,120 it's just always nice to connect with people from different cultures who 97 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,480 always interpret the world in a very different way to what I do, which is 98 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,710 always quite helpful, I feel, um, because my worldview can be quite limited. 99 00:05:29,130 --> 00:05:29,510 Um, yeah. 100 00:05:30,335 --> 00:05:35,635 But also, it's just really interesting how the world is a much smaller place, and 101 00:05:35,645 --> 00:05:39,015 you know, you're based in Latvia, I'm in Liverpool right now, we're recording this 102 00:05:39,015 --> 00:05:43,315 over the web like we're next door to each other, uh, and it's the most remarkable 103 00:05:43,325 --> 00:05:46,055 thing, and um, I, I just love that. 104 00:05:46,055 --> 00:05:48,835 I love the fact that you've got a partner that's a digital nomad, 105 00:05:48,855 --> 00:05:51,415 because, you know, if you're that phase of life, why would you not do that? 106 00:05:51,415 --> 00:05:53,025 Go and enjoy yourself a little bit, you know? 107 00:05:53,685 --> 00:05:57,905 Um, and it's, it's, it's one of the, the more wonderful sides 108 00:05:57,905 --> 00:05:59,905 of technology, uh, I find. 109 00:06:00,255 --> 00:06:00,975 So how did, 110 00:06:01,175 --> 00:06:05,025 Like everything is just that, that much closer and so much, 111 00:06:05,075 --> 00:06:06,815 yeah, that much reachable. 112 00:06:06,816 --> 00:06:08,015 yeah, 113 00:06:08,215 --> 00:06:11,025 as long as you got a fast internet connection, the world is now at your 114 00:06:11,025 --> 00:06:12,285 feet, isn't it, really, in a lot of ways. 115 00:06:12,286 --> 00:06:17,775 Um, so you're, you're in Latvia, you've got this agency, how long 116 00:06:17,775 --> 00:06:19,125 have you been doing Google Ads? 117 00:06:20,300 --> 00:06:23,950 Uh, yeah, so I started with Google ads basically four, four 118 00:06:23,950 --> 00:06:29,150 years ago, a bit less, uh, it was pretty sudden to be honest. 119 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,780 I was just asked that this company I was working for, um, yeah, I 120 00:06:33,780 --> 00:06:37,500 was a general marketing or junior marketing specialist basically. 121 00:06:37,970 --> 00:06:41,530 Um, and they asked me like, do I do, do I, do I know Google ads? 122 00:06:41,530 --> 00:06:43,120 I was like, yeah, sure I do. 123 00:06:44,201 --> 00:06:49,670 I started jumping on calls, uh, learning everything I could about it. 124 00:06:50,210 --> 00:06:54,350 Um, and six months later, it already felt like I'm kind of, you know, 125 00:06:54,820 --> 00:06:58,430 in my, in my comfort zone with, uh, and I actually found the thing that 126 00:06:58,430 --> 00:06:59,900 I didn't know I was looking for. 127 00:07:00,420 --> 00:07:04,275 Um, and then gradually starting with, with. 128 00:07:04,605 --> 00:07:09,435 That company then further moving to an e comm agency and then deciding 129 00:07:09,435 --> 00:07:13,285 with, uh, actually my friends to start our own, our own agency. 130 00:07:13,635 --> 00:07:18,805 So yeah, really these past three, four years have been, uh, have 131 00:07:18,805 --> 00:07:20,295 moved really, really quickly. 132 00:07:22,105 --> 00:07:26,635 as they do, because years in digital industries tend to be, we, I don't know 133 00:07:26,635 --> 00:07:29,605 if you have the same thing in Latvia, in the UK we have things called dog years. 134 00:07:30,515 --> 00:07:34,755 And a year, and we call it a dog, it's like, apparently one dog year is like 135 00:07:34,755 --> 00:07:37,635 seven normal years or something like that, you know, and it's kind of like, 136 00:07:38,105 --> 00:07:42,105 um, and so I think that applies to the digital sphere, doesn't it really? 137 00:07:42,115 --> 00:07:45,635 It's like one year in the digital world is, is the equivalent of seven 138 00:07:45,635 --> 00:07:46,895 years outside it sort of thing. 139 00:07:46,895 --> 00:07:49,392 And so if you've been involved with it for four years, that's actually 140 00:07:49,392 --> 00:07:53,305 quite a long time, which is why I often refer to myself as a dinosaur. 141 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,060 Because I've been involved with website design since the late 142 00:07:57,060 --> 00:08:00,950 nineties and I've been an eCommerce since the early noughties, 2002 was 143 00:08:00,950 --> 00:08:05,240 my first eCom, so, so, hence the reason I'm a bit, bit of a dinosaur, 144 00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:07,850 Kristians, but, um, but that's okay, 145 00:08:09,490 --> 00:08:12,510 I mean, they'll actually, I never thought about it that way, but that 146 00:08:12,550 --> 00:08:15,120 actually sounds, sounds really true. 147 00:08:15,140 --> 00:08:19,400 Cause for me, the, the four years feel really, really long. 148 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:24,590 Like I, I basically know, know half of the stuff or, or, or not most of 149 00:08:24,590 --> 00:08:27,343 the stuff about Google ads, but then there are guys like who are doing 150 00:08:27,343 --> 00:08:30,100 this for 10, 15, 20 years, basically. 151 00:08:31,125 --> 00:08:34,305 And I just can't imagine the knowledge that they have and the, 152 00:08:34,585 --> 00:08:36,135 yeah, how they feel about this. 153 00:08:36,910 --> 00:08:37,830 Yeah, but it's interesting, isn't it? 154 00:08:37,930 --> 00:08:42,290 Because, uh, you see, I knew a lot about Google Ads, say, ten years ago when we 155 00:08:42,290 --> 00:08:43,970 did it in house in our eCom businesses. 156 00:08:44,945 --> 00:08:48,535 But the reality of it is Google ads 10 years ago are very, very 157 00:08:48,535 --> 00:08:50,145 different to Google ads right now. 158 00:08:50,205 --> 00:08:56,035 And actually some of my old thinking is unhelpful because I'm tethered 159 00:08:56,035 --> 00:08:59,215 to a way a system used to be rather than the way the system actually is. 160 00:08:59,725 --> 00:09:05,275 And Google, uh, Google is one of those companies that is constantly 161 00:09:05,275 --> 00:09:07,015 reinventing everything, isn't it? 162 00:09:07,015 --> 00:09:08,405 And constantly changing the rules. 163 00:09:08,885 --> 00:09:10,435 So how do you stay on top of it all? 164 00:09:10,455 --> 00:09:12,655 How do you keep, keep up to date? 165 00:09:12,765 --> 00:09:15,775 You know, what, what are some of the tips and tricks you've got for, for 166 00:09:15,775 --> 00:09:17,125 making sure you know what's going on? 167 00:09:17,126 --> 00:09:20,840 Yeah. 168 00:09:20,945 --> 00:09:25,715 you can be a part of, uh, that actually cause, uh, cause something 169 00:09:26,115 --> 00:09:27,175 that they are great value. 170 00:09:27,175 --> 00:09:33,675 But the best value I think you can get is actually from podcasts and LinkedIn. 171 00:09:33,975 --> 00:09:36,415 There are hundreds, hundreds of. 172 00:09:36,750 --> 00:09:42,170 Really awesome Google media buyers that are posting amazing value on LinkedIn. 173 00:09:42,660 --> 00:09:46,420 Uh, both here in like Europe, uh, in, in, um, in UK as well. 174 00:09:46,420 --> 00:09:50,840 A lot, I know like three guys that I'm following myself, uh, us as well. 175 00:09:51,340 --> 00:09:53,370 Um, yeah, we try to do that as well. 176 00:09:53,370 --> 00:09:57,010 Kind of give free value, uh, tips, recommendations, 177 00:09:57,010 --> 00:09:58,150 anything that can actually. 178 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,890 Kind of the thinking now around Google is that Google is trying 179 00:10:02,890 --> 00:10:06,130 to maybe push and take your money. 180 00:10:06,140 --> 00:10:11,100 So the, the, the easiest value can, becomes, uh, the things that you can 181 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:16,060 do to actually save your money and, and leverage it in the most efficient way. 182 00:10:16,630 --> 00:10:22,465 So um, Yeah, just, just following people on LinkedIn, reading their basically 183 00:10:22,485 --> 00:10:26,465 daily, daily, uh, content is an amazing way to learn and up your game. 184 00:10:26,895 --> 00:10:31,005 Uh, even if you're just at the very beginning, because the, the tips range 185 00:10:31,005 --> 00:10:34,655 from, yeah, the most basic stuff to some really high level stuff, but 186 00:10:34,900 --> 00:10:35,280 yeah, 187 00:10:35,735 --> 00:10:39,075 that's, that's the best way, uh, yeah, place to get, get the value. 188 00:10:39,076 --> 00:10:40,395 Yeah, 189 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:41,110 get that. 190 00:10:41,170 --> 00:10:41,850 Totally true. 191 00:10:42,170 --> 00:10:45,150 Um, LinkedIn is a gold mine of information in a lot of ways. 192 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,490 Um, to be fair, part of me was expecting you to say Twitter, or 193 00:10:49,710 --> 00:10:51,260 X as it's now called, isn't it? 194 00:10:51,260 --> 00:10:52,390 It's not called Twitter anymore. 195 00:10:52,540 --> 00:10:53,220 I must stop that. 196 00:10:53,740 --> 00:10:56,450 Um, but yeah, do you do the Twitter thing or not really? 197 00:10:56,460 --> 00:10:57,200 Just LinkedIn? 198 00:10:58,155 --> 00:11:01,815 I actually wanted to, yeah, kind of follow, follow that up with, uh, 199 00:11:02,105 --> 00:11:07,315 yeah, the, the The Twitter topic is we did actually, or I did actually 200 00:11:07,325 --> 00:11:11,465 find value there previously, but then it just got too crowded for me. 201 00:11:11,465 --> 00:11:17,195 So I actually find that, uh, LinkedIn with the longer form posts, um, kind 202 00:11:17,195 --> 00:11:22,255 of makes it, I don't know, more, more easily digestible for my brand at least. 203 00:11:22,585 --> 00:11:29,605 Um, and, uh, yeah, maybe Twitter is a bit too crowded or X is a bit too crowded. 204 00:11:30,150 --> 00:11:31,700 Yeah, there's a lot of noise, isn't there? 205 00:11:33,585 --> 00:11:34,525 Yeah, that's the problem, isn't it? 206 00:11:34,525 --> 00:11:37,085 It's like, how do you find the people that you definitely want to hit 207 00:11:37,415 --> 00:11:39,425 and sort of filter out the noise? 208 00:11:39,425 --> 00:11:43,855 There's a lot of noise, I think, on social media, uh, which is, is, is, 209 00:11:43,855 --> 00:11:46,565 you know, again, makes me sound a little bit old, doesn't it, I suppose. 210 00:11:47,175 --> 00:11:50,955 Um, so here you are in Google, what are some of the things that we then 211 00:11:50,975 --> 00:11:57,695 should be thinking about right now as eCommerce entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, 212 00:11:57,695 --> 00:12:02,125 uh, you know, um, I totally lost the ability to speak for a minute, but, 213 00:12:02,165 --> 00:12:05,905 uh, you know, as business owners, as entrepreneurs, people running eCommerce 214 00:12:05,905 --> 00:12:11,415 websites, what are some of the things that we should be thinking about, um, 215 00:12:11,425 --> 00:12:15,085 where Google ads is concerned right now? 216 00:12:18,425 --> 00:12:23,965 probably say if you're an eCommerce brand running, uh, Google ads, the first 217 00:12:23,965 --> 00:12:29,355 place you have to kind of think about and look is, or actually I would say two 218 00:12:29,395 --> 00:12:35,145 most important pitfalls that I've seen over the accounts, um, is the conversion 219 00:12:35,145 --> 00:12:38,515 tracking, uh, itself and, and then. 220 00:12:39,050 --> 00:12:47,160 A lot of people tend to rely on PMAX too much, um, so I would say that's kind of 221 00:12:47,930 --> 00:12:53,640 maybe a worrying part, actually, because it can get out, out of hand, especially 222 00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:56,130 with, uh, faulty conversion tracking. 223 00:12:56,710 --> 00:13:01,160 So, yeah, I think I'll probably try to address the points one by one. 224 00:13:01,955 --> 00:13:05,845 Yeah, let's dig into those because, uh, well, let's start with conversion 225 00:13:05,845 --> 00:13:07,095 tracking first and foremost. 226 00:13:07,135 --> 00:13:10,505 Well, let's not assume that everybody knows what that means. 227 00:13:10,890 --> 00:13:14,880 Um, what do you mean by conversion tracking and then let's dig into 228 00:13:14,890 --> 00:13:16,650 why we're not getting this right. 229 00:13:17,070 --> 00:13:20,960 yeah, so, um, essentially the easiest example that I've 230 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:22,270 found people understand is. 231 00:13:23,115 --> 00:13:26,265 It's the Facebook pixel, but for Google. 232 00:13:26,705 --> 00:13:30,765 So, um, it's the tracking code or the tracking parameters that you 233 00:13:30,765 --> 00:13:32,325 install in your website that help. 234 00:13:33,335 --> 00:13:38,645 You understand and Google understand how many of those clicks resulted in sales 235 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:39,200 Yeah. 236 00:13:39,565 --> 00:13:45,665 what were the You know amount of amount of the purchases and also really important 237 00:13:45,665 --> 00:13:53,195 if you want to do remarketing so dynamic marketing Filter out your existing 238 00:13:53,195 --> 00:13:58,995 customers from new customers Separate that so you don't overbid on existing 239 00:13:58,995 --> 00:14:05,590 customers and what we see and I think a big issue is that One, people try to do 240 00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:12,680 it themselves or two, people try to do it with Google support, but even there, kind 241 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:17,690 of recommendations and steps differ from each other and usually they don't check 242 00:14:17,730 --> 00:14:20,220 whether everything's installed correctly. 243 00:14:20,220 --> 00:14:25,880 So what usually tends to happen is that you have multiple purchase conversions. 244 00:14:26,315 --> 00:14:31,155 Uh, conversion actions running as primary at the same time, meaning that one sale 245 00:14:31,155 --> 00:14:36,135 will be counted as two, three, four sales, giving false data to the algorithm. 246 00:14:36,645 --> 00:14:41,645 Uh, then also having, you know, add to cart, page view, even phone calls as 247 00:14:41,645 --> 00:14:44,685 primary conversion, uh, kind of goals. 248 00:14:44,685 --> 00:14:49,560 So that means whenever someone That's basically kind of what I think is 249 00:14:50,180 --> 00:14:54,660 giving Google the signal that a phone call or a page view is just 250 00:14:54,660 --> 00:14:56,890 as important as a purchase to your 251 00:14:57,130 --> 00:14:57,140 hmm. 252 00:14:57,150 --> 00:14:57,510 Mm hmm. 253 00:14:58,030 --> 00:15:00,560 brand, which is what you don't want to do. 254 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,640 So it also gets tricky because then if you don't know your conversion 255 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,520 tracking, you might go to your kind of campaigns to see the performance 256 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,690 and see, oh, I'm doing like 20x ROAS while it's actually being counted. 257 00:15:13,475 --> 00:15:18,355 The conversion value of a page view or add to cart, not the purchase itself. 258 00:15:18,535 --> 00:15:22,635 So that's how you can really, really lose your way. 259 00:15:22,685 --> 00:15:26,645 Like right at the beginning, as you start running Google ads is just seeing 260 00:15:26,645 --> 00:15:30,345 one number on Google, thinking it's true while you're not seeing the same thing. 261 00:15:30,895 --> 00:15:32,605 On your, on your, yeah. 262 00:15:32,875 --> 00:15:34,165 In your bank account basically. 263 00:15:34,165 --> 00:15:34,585 Mm-Hmm. 264 00:15:35,330 --> 00:15:39,860 Which to be honest with you, I mean, it comes up time and time again 265 00:15:39,870 --> 00:15:42,370 and I think it comes up time and time again because the problem in 266 00:15:42,370 --> 00:15:43,700 a lot of ways is still not solved. 267 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:50,310 Um, there is always a discrepancy between what Google tells you, um, and 268 00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:54,700 what you think is true based on the numbers that you see on your website. 269 00:15:55,830 --> 00:15:59,500 And so, trying to get more and more accurate data becomes this 270 00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:04,365 sort of The, the, the sort of the, the holy grail, doesn't it? 271 00:16:04,365 --> 00:16:08,235 That we sort of almost chase after is like, how do we get perfect attribution? 272 00:16:08,755 --> 00:16:10,855 Um, how do we get perfect numbers out of Google? 273 00:16:10,855 --> 00:16:13,935 I, I still don't know if there's an answer, but some of the things that 274 00:16:13,945 --> 00:16:18,085 you said strike me as quite interesting that actually we can inadvertently 275 00:16:18,095 --> 00:16:22,715 set up the, the tracking, um, the conversion tracking on the Google site 276 00:16:23,735 --> 00:16:26,015 in, in a way that's maybe not helpful. 277 00:16:26,335 --> 00:16:28,375 Um, so how? 278 00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:31,970 Is this something you see a lot of people doing? 279 00:16:32,675 --> 00:16:33,155 Yeah. 280 00:16:33,305 --> 00:16:34,985 Uh, yeah, a lot actually. 281 00:16:34,985 --> 00:16:35,615 I think. 282 00:16:36,225 --> 00:16:40,115 Um, and just disclaimer, I don't know how to do conversion tracking myself. 283 00:16:40,115 --> 00:16:43,175 That's my, my colleague, my partner, partner at our agency. 284 00:16:43,235 --> 00:16:45,605 He's the one who's master conversion tracking. 285 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,260 Um, and it's really, uh, kinda. 286 00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:52,510 a specific thing to, to master. 287 00:16:52,510 --> 00:16:56,490 So one is like Google ad strategy and one is conversion tracking on itself. 288 00:16:57,610 --> 00:17:00,720 um, that's why I can understand why people get it wrong. 289 00:17:01,450 --> 00:17:06,520 Um, but yeah, sorry, I forgot the initial question. 290 00:17:06,790 --> 00:17:07,330 Yeah, no problem. 291 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,870 I'm curious if people, if you see a lot of people making this mistake, and I think a 292 00:17:11,870 --> 00:17:16,260 lot of people, a lot of people listening will be going, it's 293 00:17:16,260 --> 00:17:17,260 interesting what you've just said. 294 00:17:17,260 --> 00:17:18,660 What are some of the things? 295 00:17:18,995 --> 00:17:21,855 I mean, I appreciate your, your, your partner does it, um, hopefully 296 00:17:21,855 --> 00:17:24,115 you've picked up one or two things, but what are some of the 297 00:17:24,125 --> 00:17:25,725 things that we should be aware of? 298 00:17:25,725 --> 00:17:27,735 How can we check it ourselves? 299 00:17:27,875 --> 00:17:32,315 Um, how, how do, how do we know if we've got conversion tracking wrong? 300 00:17:32,455 --> 00:17:33,195 Okay, yeah. 301 00:17:33,585 --> 00:17:39,225 Uh, so actually out of all of the audits I've done this year, um, 302 00:17:39,615 --> 00:17:42,455 I think only two accounts had the conversion tracking correctly. 303 00:17:43,085 --> 00:17:47,005 Uh, the best way to ensure that you have set it up correctly is 304 00:17:47,005 --> 00:17:49,275 to, uh, using Google Tag Manager. 305 00:17:49,905 --> 00:17:54,265 Uh, that's the, probably the most accurate data you can, you'll be able to get. 306 00:17:54,885 --> 00:17:58,525 But, uh, the first, yes, thing you can do to check it is just go 307 00:17:58,525 --> 00:18:00,315 under settings, under conversions. 308 00:18:00,345 --> 00:18:07,505 And if you have More than one action basically set as primary, then something's 309 00:18:07,505 --> 00:18:12,785 probably not being counted right, or it's being counted multiple times. 310 00:18:13,565 --> 00:18:18,085 So, under the first tab or first table that is, you're seeing 311 00:18:18,115 --> 00:18:21,835 purchase actions, you should only have One action set as primary. 312 00:18:21,835 --> 00:18:26,065 And that should probably be, uh, connected with server side tracking 313 00:18:26,065 --> 00:18:28,265 or like direct website tracking. 314 00:18:28,885 --> 00:18:33,795 Um, and then if you move, uh, further in the settings tab, then you'll, 315 00:18:33,825 --> 00:18:37,870 you'll should see only All of the remaining actions are secondary. 316 00:18:37,870 --> 00:18:42,700 So add to cart, secondary action, not being counted into, uh, the 317 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:47,360 overall accounts, performance, page views, leads, directions. 318 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:50,720 If you have those as well, everything should be set as secondary. 319 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,410 I would probably, if you're an eCommerce brand, delete the kind of 320 00:18:54,410 --> 00:18:57,190 phone calls and, and lead any, any. 321 00:18:57,455 --> 00:19:00,465 Lead related conversion actions from the account. 322 00:19:00,465 --> 00:19:04,515 So leave, uh, add to cart, leave page view as secondary actions. 323 00:19:05,055 --> 00:19:09,205 Um, but yeah, then just have the best, yeah, the best ways to 324 00:19:09,205 --> 00:19:13,175 check if you have only one primary conversion action, which is purchase. 325 00:19:13,785 --> 00:19:19,445 Um, yeah, I would say there are steps or there are strategies where you can, 326 00:19:20,135 --> 00:19:25,255 can maybe trick your ad account if it's completely fairly new, where you are 327 00:19:25,275 --> 00:19:31,525 using An add to cart action as a primary one, but, uh, yeah, for the majority 328 00:19:31,525 --> 00:19:36,235 of cases, I would say just leave it for purchase primary conversion and, and 329 00:19:36,655 --> 00:19:41,205 that should be kind of the first maybe step to success with conversion tracking. 330 00:19:41,505 --> 00:19:45,505 And I actually liked what you said before, that it is this kinda 331 00:19:46,095 --> 00:19:48,465 topic that no one knows if we. 332 00:19:48,541 --> 00:19:53,257 So like I said, I don't know how many of you ever will get it right. 333 00:19:53,257 --> 00:19:57,490 Even now the cookie of Google is not able to track all of the conversions. 334 00:19:57,490 --> 00:19:59,920 So there's still discrepancy of what Google is showing 335 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:00,504 hmm, mm 336 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,960 what the actual kind of impact of Google Ads is to your business. 337 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:10,920 Usually, I've seen, if you're using apps like TripleWhale or Nordbean, which 338 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:16,360 are third party attribution tools is where you can see more accurate data 339 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:22,930 and Using those apps, you can actually see that there's usually a 20 40 percent 340 00:20:22,940 --> 00:20:26,890 discrepancy from what you're seeing on Google and what you're actually getting. 341 00:20:27,250 --> 00:20:31,550 So, you're actually getting much better performance than what 342 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,330 Google is showing you with kind of the conversion tracking there. 343 00:20:35,810 --> 00:20:43,075 Um, and, and it is Yeah, I can't even say how important it is to get it right, 344 00:20:43,415 --> 00:20:49,045 because Google is essentially a smart bidding, it's the smartest algorithm for 345 00:20:49,045 --> 00:20:55,395 any paid channel, and if you feed it bad data, your outcome is going to be bad as 346 00:20:55,395 --> 00:21:02,015 well, so it relies on that data, it relies on the quality of that data, so that's 347 00:21:02,015 --> 00:21:06,515 kind of the I really the foundation of everything because once you start reading 348 00:21:06,515 --> 00:21:13,825 it that one sale is actually worth four sales Then it will start thinking that 349 00:21:13,875 --> 00:21:18,175 you know I can bid more to get that one sale and then then you find yourself in 350 00:21:18,175 --> 00:21:23,115 the situation where you're where you're Yeah, metrics are just in the ground. 351 00:21:23,450 --> 00:21:28,860 yeah, no, very, very good, uh, key information there, and so go away and 352 00:21:28,860 --> 00:21:34,120 check your It's interesting actually, one of the things that, um, I do, uh, 353 00:21:34,170 --> 00:21:37,710 Kristians, when I go And see clients. 354 00:21:38,860 --> 00:21:43,250 So I do a, you know, I do a bit of e-comm coaching, um, with, with people 355 00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:44,990 and I, it's something I quite enjoy. 356 00:21:45,260 --> 00:21:48,380 One of the questions that I like to ask clients whenever I sit down with 'em 357 00:21:48,380 --> 00:21:54,580 for the first time is I ask them, what's the primary purpose of your website? 358 00:21:55,220 --> 00:22:00,250 Uh, and, and, and everyone looks at you like you, you're talking crazy talk 359 00:22:00,550 --> 00:22:04,070 because it's like, what, what, what do you mean that it's an eCommerce site? 360 00:22:04,090 --> 00:22:07,570 And I'm like, yes, but is the primary purpose of your website to sell product? 361 00:22:07,570 --> 00:22:08,180 Yes or no? 362 00:22:08,855 --> 00:22:09,165 Mmm. 363 00:22:09,210 --> 00:22:12,680 Um, because the amount of eCommerce websites who will say that, 364 00:22:12,690 --> 00:22:15,220 but actually the rest of their site is not geared towards that 365 00:22:15,230 --> 00:22:16,650 is quite extraordinary, right? 366 00:22:17,570 --> 00:22:20,460 And so, but we agree 99 percent of the time for most eCommerce 367 00:22:20,460 --> 00:22:25,110 websites, the primary purpose of that website is to sell stuff, okay? 368 00:22:25,590 --> 00:22:29,450 So we write that on the, on the board, you know, primary purpose to sell stuff. 369 00:22:29,860 --> 00:22:33,110 And this ties in with what you're telling Google really, your primary conversion 370 00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:35,250 tracking is obviously is a purchase. 371 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,750 Interestingly that Google want you to put in secondary, because one of the 372 00:22:40,750 --> 00:22:45,850 questions that I follow up with is what's the secondary purpose of your website? 373 00:22:46,185 --> 00:22:49,765 Um, and it's one of the questions I've been asking for years and it 374 00:22:49,765 --> 00:22:53,055 throws people because it's like, well, I just want to sell stuff. 375 00:22:53,415 --> 00:22:56,195 And I'm like, yeah, but what happens to the people that come to your website 376 00:22:56,195 --> 00:22:57,635 that don't want to buy your stuff? 377 00:22:58,045 --> 00:23:00,805 They're not ready for whatever reason to buy the stuff. 378 00:23:01,225 --> 00:23:05,485 If you exist just to sell them stuff, if that's your primary purpose, 379 00:23:05,485 --> 00:23:07,355 how are you engaging with them? 380 00:23:07,535 --> 00:23:10,305 And I think that all comes down to your secondary purpose. 381 00:23:10,305 --> 00:23:15,425 And for me, Again, not true necessarily all of the time, but for 382 00:23:15,425 --> 00:23:19,015 most eCommerce websites, most of the time, the secondary purpose of that 383 00:23:19,015 --> 00:23:23,405 website is to get the email addresses of highly relevant traffic, right? 384 00:23:24,005 --> 00:23:29,385 So using lead magnets, freebies, whatever mechanism, you know, makes 385 00:23:29,395 --> 00:23:31,105 sense for your site and for your brand. 386 00:23:31,895 --> 00:23:35,935 The key aim has got to be to get the email address of the person 387 00:23:35,935 --> 00:23:40,665 that's come to your website and then put them into some kind of email 388 00:23:40,665 --> 00:23:43,905 sequence or funnel that eventually will hopefully lead to a purchase. 389 00:23:43,905 --> 00:23:45,745 You build a relationship with them over time. 390 00:23:46,325 --> 00:23:48,955 Um, so if you can't get the sale, can you get the email address? 391 00:23:48,955 --> 00:23:49,335 Yes or no. 392 00:23:49,835 --> 00:23:53,845 Um, and it's a, it's a remarkable, it's very simplistic way of 393 00:23:53,845 --> 00:23:55,405 thinking about your website, right? 394 00:23:55,455 --> 00:23:59,065 But if they're your two primary, if your primary is purchase, your 395 00:23:59,065 --> 00:24:00,665 secondary is to get the email address. 396 00:24:01,465 --> 00:24:07,215 Um, it changes, I think, quite a bit how you do your website and it 397 00:24:07,215 --> 00:24:10,665 changes quite a bit how you, how you do Google, I think, Google Shopping. 398 00:24:10,675 --> 00:24:14,375 And what's fascinating to me in this conversation is that actually if you 399 00:24:14,385 --> 00:24:20,935 set, if I've heard you right, setting the secondary purpose on Google as 400 00:24:20,945 --> 00:24:23,485 lead generation or getting someone's email address is not something 401 00:24:23,485 --> 00:24:25,285 that you would necessarily advise. 402 00:24:25,305 --> 00:24:25,365 Mm. 403 00:24:26,855 --> 00:24:32,305 Yeah, because, um, yeah, really email for Google doesn't tie 404 00:24:32,315 --> 00:24:35,295 in with, with, uh, purchases. 405 00:24:35,645 --> 00:24:40,500 Uh, if you want to do like lead gen phone calls, uh And then try to get that 406 00:24:40,510 --> 00:24:45,400 email address, those would be, yeah, for lead gen kind of accounts and lead 407 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,480 gen businesses or, yeah, B2B basically. 408 00:24:48,690 --> 00:24:48,910 Mm 409 00:24:49,620 --> 00:24:54,950 That's kind of, yeah, for Google lead gen or phone calls, that's 410 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,670 tied with the campaigns that are. 411 00:24:57,100 --> 00:24:59,290 Already created towards Legion as well. 412 00:24:59,290 --> 00:25:02,550 So, um, and I'm second saying, yeah, secondary action. 413 00:25:02,550 --> 00:25:07,040 'cause basically you don't have, uh, more options to choose from. 414 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,120 So it's either primary and it's getting used as the, uh, you know, 415 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,160 nor Northern Star for your account. 416 00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:17,090 And, and you know, it's counting the conversion value or secondary, 417 00:25:17,450 --> 00:25:21,055 which is basically you can, yeah, you can observe the, uh. 418 00:25:21,890 --> 00:25:25,740 Kind of values that are going through those actions like add to carts and 419 00:25:26,060 --> 00:25:30,350 and see maybe how I took how many add to carts like Google God versus the 420 00:25:30,350 --> 00:25:38,520 percentage of purchases it got so but that's yeah the the yeah as a secondary 421 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:39,010 Yeah. 422 00:25:39,015 --> 00:25:39,265 Yeah. 423 00:25:39,325 --> 00:25:40,045 No, fair enough. 424 00:25:40,045 --> 00:25:40,795 Fair enough. 425 00:25:40,855 --> 00:25:41,665 Fascinating. 426 00:25:41,905 --> 00:25:45,535 So the, the second, so the first thing you said was conversion tracking, 427 00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:46,820 Yeah, 428 00:25:46,975 --> 00:25:49,855 and then the second thing you said was relying on max too much. 429 00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:57,770 yeah on on on performance max cuz yeah, it's basically I think the the Google 430 00:25:57,770 --> 00:26:03,410 Media buyers around the world are either You know, move away from PMAX completely 431 00:26:03,410 --> 00:26:05,660 or have PMAX in your account still. 432 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:12,440 Um, I've seen accounts where PMAX has done, you know, great things. 433 00:26:12,820 --> 00:26:17,550 Uh, but there are far more many accounts where I've seen it 434 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,710 drain your, it drain your money. 435 00:26:20,290 --> 00:26:26,870 Um, especially when it goes to that, you know, plus 10, 20, 30k a month. 436 00:26:28,405 --> 00:26:28,735 Mm. 437 00:26:29,660 --> 00:26:35,830 PMAX can do a fairly good job on shopping and search campaigns, even if 438 00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:37,720 there's a little bit of a brand in it. 439 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,150 But once you try to scale it past a certain point where it If you cannot 440 00:26:42,180 --> 00:26:46,600 meet the demand with, with, you know, shopping and search, then it 441 00:26:46,650 --> 00:26:51,750 just starts cannibalizing your own, uh, other paid media, uh, channels. 442 00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:56,570 So either you're also organic traffic or the traffic that would have 443 00:26:56,570 --> 00:27:00,820 gotten to your site and made the purchase from meta ads or, or TikTok. 444 00:27:02,270 --> 00:27:06,210 And yeah, PMAX just kind of swoops in, takes, uh, says, thank you for the sale. 445 00:27:06,210 --> 00:27:10,910 I'm gonna, I'm gonna accredit to myself for, um, yeah, showing, I don't know, 446 00:27:10,910 --> 00:27:15,570 a display ad maybe, or, or a video ad that doesn't have a click on it, 447 00:27:16,550 --> 00:27:21,230 but because of engaged view, uh, yeah, it will say thank you for the sale. 448 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,350 This, this one is all, all Google. 449 00:27:23,730 --> 00:27:27,880 Um, and that's why you probably see oftentimes, like, crazy 450 00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:31,050 On, on your p max campaigns. 451 00:27:31,540 --> 00:27:36,190 One thing is that you, you have a lot of branded terms there, which should 452 00:27:36,190 --> 00:27:42,170 have gone to your brand search or maybe even your organic, uh, listings 453 00:27:42,260 --> 00:27:49,050 or rankings, and then it's just, or, or attributing, uh, or cannibalizing 454 00:27:49,050 --> 00:27:50,880 on, on your other traffic channels. 455 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,330 So, um, there's really, because PMAX is such a black box, 456 00:27:55,330 --> 00:27:56,980 it's, it's difficult to tell. 457 00:27:57,665 --> 00:28:02,345 Where you are getting these sales, but that's why it's important to look at 458 00:28:02,345 --> 00:28:09,235 your overall kind of business numbers and look at your marketing efficiency ratio. 459 00:28:09,785 --> 00:28:17,395 Maybe try to pinpoint that moment in time when when you started scaling PMAX. 460 00:28:18,365 --> 00:28:23,855 And look whether your revenue actually grew with that PMAX because Google 461 00:28:23,855 --> 00:28:26,875 will show that, you know, you, you started running PMAX from, I don't 462 00:28:26,875 --> 00:28:29,815 know, 200 a day to 1, 000 a day. 463 00:28:30,105 --> 00:28:34,175 It will show you're still keeping up with 4x, 5x ROAS, but then you 464 00:28:34,185 --> 00:28:37,095 look at your backend numbers and see that nothing actually changed. 465 00:28:38,065 --> 00:28:41,725 that's when, when, when you have those first signals that you have 466 00:28:41,725 --> 00:28:45,825 to look deeper into it, um, because Google might be just stealing. 467 00:28:46,125 --> 00:28:51,065 Your, your Facebook or meta traffic or, or your organic traffic and 468 00:28:51,615 --> 00:28:56,995 kind of wanting you to spend more on Google, showing you great numbers, 469 00:28:56,995 --> 00:28:59,875 but, but you are actually just, yeah. 470 00:28:59,875 --> 00:29:01,075 Losing money on those sales. 471 00:29:01,075 --> 00:29:04,505 'cause you would've gotten them for, for free most of the time. 472 00:29:04,505 --> 00:29:05,315 So, or, uh. 473 00:29:05,365 --> 00:29:05,905 Yeah. 474 00:29:06,460 --> 00:29:07,700 For, for better cost. 475 00:29:08,585 --> 00:29:09,785 So how do we mitigate that? 476 00:29:11,450 --> 00:29:16,130 Um, yeah, so first thing, probably if you're running a high scale or even 477 00:29:16,180 --> 00:29:20,890 some sort of PMAX campaign, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily true for you. 478 00:29:21,370 --> 00:29:26,350 You have to, you have to do your own research, basically look at your, all of 479 00:29:26,350 --> 00:29:28,435 your channels, look at your, uh, yeah. 480 00:29:28,725 --> 00:29:28,905 M. 481 00:29:28,905 --> 00:29:29,005 E. 482 00:29:29,005 --> 00:29:29,205 R. 483 00:29:29,205 --> 00:29:35,065 or Media Efficiency Ratio, see whether that really might be the case, look 484 00:29:35,065 --> 00:29:39,775 at like insights within PMAX, how much is branded in there, how many 485 00:29:40,465 --> 00:29:44,105 conversions are you getting from your shopping campaigns, so those you can 486 00:29:44,115 --> 00:29:46,995 find under listing groups and products. 487 00:29:47,755 --> 00:29:48,643 Uh, yeah. 488 00:29:49,410 --> 00:29:52,670 And, um, and see whether that might be true for you. 489 00:29:53,220 --> 00:29:57,300 If you have a, yeah, if you have a feeling that it might be the case, start 490 00:29:57,300 --> 00:30:01,370 lowering your PMAX spends and see whether that affects affects your top line. 491 00:30:02,030 --> 00:30:07,260 Um, if it does, then yeah, then maybe PMAX is actually doing something good 492 00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:09,020 for you and you can explore it kind of. 493 00:30:09,111 --> 00:30:10,560 Cuz we're pushing more into it. 494 00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:16,860 But what most of the times we see is that with decreasing or even shutting 495 00:30:16,910 --> 00:30:21,540 PMAX off completely, the top line doesn't really change that much, so, and that 496 00:30:21,540 --> 00:30:28,520 can be actually gonna managed much more efficiently with using the, you know, good 497 00:30:28,530 --> 00:30:30,840 ol reliable standard shopping campaigns. 498 00:30:31,230 --> 00:30:35,580 If you are an eCom brand, that's probably the best way for you to grow actually. 499 00:30:36,155 --> 00:30:40,715 Past that, that certain point that actually PMAX could, so PMAX 500 00:30:40,745 --> 00:30:43,265 basically becomes a problem at scale. 501 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:46,090 Fascinating. 502 00:30:46,570 --> 00:30:47,230 Fascinating. 503 00:30:47,230 --> 00:30:50,930 So actually the old standard, I like what you called it, the standard shopping 504 00:30:50,930 --> 00:30:57,770 campaign, uh, is actually still, should still be part of your, uh, arsenal, um, 505 00:30:57,780 --> 00:31:02,050 your, your strategy, even in the, in the light of things like performance 506 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,490 max and, and all the sort of the new fangled things that are coming forward. 507 00:31:06,745 --> 00:31:08,785 because it just gives you much more control. 508 00:31:08,785 --> 00:31:11,505 You actually have control over those, those search terms. 509 00:31:11,505 --> 00:31:16,775 I know Google is pushing out a lot of new features for, for PMAX as well, 510 00:31:16,775 --> 00:31:20,690 but it's still Not that manageable. 511 00:31:20,690 --> 00:31:22,550 It still feels like a black box. 512 00:31:23,630 --> 00:31:28,540 Um, so, and you can still start or leverage your kind of the smart 513 00:31:28,540 --> 00:31:31,840 bidding algorithm for standard shopping as well, because that's 514 00:31:31,860 --> 00:31:33,830 kind of one of the best strategies. 515 00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:39,350 Moving forward is not using manual CPC with standard shopping, but actually use a 516 00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:43,970 TROAS strategy with standard shopping and 517 00:31:44,145 --> 00:31:47,105 Christians, just that there's a lot of terminology there, and I'm aware 518 00:31:47,105 --> 00:31:50,805 that people listening to No, no, no, I'm aware that we have different 519 00:31:50,805 --> 00:31:53,025 people listening to the show and some people just starting out. 520 00:31:53,025 --> 00:31:55,625 Some people like me maybe have been around a little while. 521 00:31:55,855 --> 00:31:58,615 So just explain some of the different terminology that you've 522 00:31:58,615 --> 00:32:00,165 used and then let's dig into it. 523 00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:07,610 So one of probably the yeah The the most used strategies with standard shopping 524 00:32:07,610 --> 00:32:13,170 previously was using manual CPC or manual cost per click where you Tell Google how 525 00:32:13,180 --> 00:32:20,255 much you are willing to pay for For that click and it will find you sales, uh, or 526 00:32:20,255 --> 00:32:25,755 not sales clicks, set you in into bidding actions where you will, you know, not pay 527 00:32:25,755 --> 00:32:28,515 more than that click, uh, that, that bid. 528 00:32:29,265 --> 00:32:35,395 Um, so it's, it's more of a manual setup and, uh, it doesn't really maybe take 529 00:32:35,395 --> 00:32:42,515 into account how, um, Purchase intent that click is, if that makes sense, like 530 00:32:42,525 --> 00:32:46,685 how warm that user might be to actually wanting to purchase or whether that's 531 00:32:46,695 --> 00:32:53,265 someone who's just, you know, Googling, uh, random products, trying to learn more 532 00:32:53,265 --> 00:32:56,085 about them or, or find images or whatever. 533 00:32:56,735 --> 00:33:01,405 Uh, so now the idea is actually to leverage that smart bidding. 534 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:06,720 Algorithm that Google has that, you know why it's so important actually to, 535 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,360 uh, give all of your best data to it? 536 00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:16,420 'cause it can make this decisions on showing the ads, shopping ads, uh, to 537 00:33:16,425 --> 00:33:18,970 people who are more likely to convert. 538 00:33:18,975 --> 00:33:19,750 Basically, those who have. 539 00:33:20,665 --> 00:33:27,045 Showing a history in Google's opinion that, yeah, they might buy something. 540 00:33:28,105 --> 00:33:33,095 So you leverage that and move to a target ROAS strategy where you 541 00:33:33,165 --> 00:33:37,255 basically already, it's essential for you to know your cost as well. 542 00:33:38,155 --> 00:33:43,295 It will not work in a way where you set up 4X or 400 percent target ROAS 543 00:33:43,835 --> 00:33:46,485 and, you know, a thousand euro a day. 544 00:33:46,765 --> 00:33:51,175 Add spend and you'll suddenly make, start making, uh, yeah, 40, 000 a day. 545 00:33:51,845 --> 00:33:56,665 Uh, yeah, Google will probably tell you that it's, uh, that they, it 546 00:33:56,705 --> 00:34:01,315 is not able to spend your, your money at that, at that space. 547 00:34:02,175 --> 00:34:07,575 But where it does become helpful is knowing your numbers and knowing that 548 00:34:08,335 --> 00:34:13,405 Google will probably under attribute the conversion value, the sales. 549 00:34:14,225 --> 00:34:16,275 Uh, that it can get its hands on. 550 00:34:17,025 --> 00:34:22,605 Um, and so you, let's say you, you know, that a 2X ROAS works for you. 551 00:34:22,605 --> 00:34:27,725 You know, there's like a 20, 25 percent discrepancy from what Google is showing 552 00:34:27,725 --> 00:34:31,605 you to what you're actually seeing, uh, in the back end, in your top line. 553 00:34:32,425 --> 00:34:33,925 And then adjusting that. 554 00:34:33,925 --> 00:34:37,735 So let's say running your standard shopping at 150%, so 1. 555 00:34:37,736 --> 00:34:42,805 5X ROAS, but you know, that, you know, 2X ROAS would suffice for you 556 00:34:43,105 --> 00:34:45,010 and you know, In real life, that 1. 557 00:34:45,010 --> 00:34:49,900 5 on Google is actually closer to two or about two extra hours 558 00:34:49,930 --> 00:34:51,440 in, in, yeah, in real life. 559 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:57,270 Um, and that's where you can start kind of playing with, uh, with, with those 560 00:34:57,270 --> 00:35:00,240 smart bidding algorithms and strategies. 561 00:35:00,250 --> 00:35:04,210 So, uh, I know cases where people are actually spending. 562 00:35:04,575 --> 00:35:08,045 You know, five, four or five figures a day on, on shopping 563 00:35:08,535 --> 00:35:10,625 with a target draw as goal of 0. 564 00:35:10,626 --> 00:35:12,995 5 or 50 percent basically. 565 00:35:13,455 --> 00:35:17,045 And still that is, that is profitable for them. 566 00:35:17,045 --> 00:35:20,135 And that's actually scaling the brand, the account, not just Google 567 00:35:20,135 --> 00:35:23,570 wise, but the brand itself as well, because it just gives that. 568 00:35:24,410 --> 00:35:28,470 You know, visibility around the shopping network, it puts you first place. 569 00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:32,280 It lets you, uh, compete in the bidding actions with your competitors. 570 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,360 Plus it's, it's kinda saying Google that I still need to make, you know, 571 00:35:37,370 --> 00:35:42,130 I still need to find those, I still need for you to find those people 572 00:35:42,130 --> 00:35:46,220 that are more likely to convert as opposed to throwing the ad to everyone. 573 00:35:46,220 --> 00:35:50,850 So probably Google is gonna adjust its bids then to bid 574 00:35:50,860 --> 00:35:52,620 a bit more on people that. 575 00:35:53,035 --> 00:35:58,405 Have shown, you know, uh, uh, purchase history previously and bid less to 576 00:35:58,405 --> 00:36:02,685 someone that might not, might, might not result, um, in a conversion. 577 00:36:02,685 --> 00:36:10,515 So that's kind of one of the, I would say, most popular kind of advanced strategies 578 00:36:10,535 --> 00:36:16,235 going around there, um, is, is actually, uh, giving Google the opportunity to 579 00:36:16,235 --> 00:36:22,385 use smart bidding and, and knowing your numbers, still limiting it in a way 580 00:36:22,865 --> 00:36:28,505 Um, yeah, but kind of trying to make the most of it and, and, and actually 581 00:36:28,515 --> 00:36:34,155 having control over it, adding your negative keywords, um, uh, all the time. 582 00:36:34,825 --> 00:36:38,955 And, um, yeah, working your way kind of from there. 583 00:36:41,250 --> 00:36:45,920 The smart bidding strategy that you just talked about, which 584 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,270 makes a lot of sense in my head. 585 00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:50,920 I mean, and it's nice that technology is getting to a place where you can look 586 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,420 at the numbers and go, right, actually guys, what I'm after is I'm after a row. 587 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:55,320 If we can hit this. 588 00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:00,570 target ROAS number the return on ad spend in other words for every dollar 589 00:37:00,570 --> 00:37:04,660 that I spend on advertising every pound I spend on advertising with you I need 590 00:37:04,660 --> 00:37:09,640 to generate two pounds or two dollars in revenue that would be a two times ROAS 591 00:37:10,490 --> 00:37:14,090 very oversimplified but in essence that's what we're saying and so we're saying 592 00:37:14,090 --> 00:37:19,785 right Um, the product that I'm selling, in effect, if I hit a two times ROAS, I 593 00:37:19,785 --> 00:37:21,505 know I'm breaking even on the first sale. 594 00:37:21,505 --> 00:37:24,765 If you're sending me people with good buyers intent, I'm okay because 595 00:37:24,765 --> 00:37:27,745 they'll buy from you a second time, a third time or whatever the strategy 596 00:37:27,745 --> 00:37:29,025 is that you, you know, you've set. 597 00:37:29,785 --> 00:37:33,805 Um, and so now we're getting to a stage where we can tell Google, actually, 598 00:37:33,805 --> 00:37:36,575 this is a kind cause before, like you say, you'd manually have to do it. 599 00:37:36,825 --> 00:37:38,735 Are we, are we near my ROAS numbers? 600 00:37:38,735 --> 00:37:39,165 Yes or no. 601 00:37:39,605 --> 00:37:43,345 Turn that one off, switch that one, you know, ramp that one up kind of a thing. 602 00:37:43,965 --> 00:37:48,535 Um, and so we, we would spend hours doing that really, wouldn't you? 603 00:37:48,535 --> 00:37:49,225 In Google AdWords. 604 00:37:49,245 --> 00:37:50,375 Now it's all this sort of smart. 605 00:37:50,385 --> 00:37:54,165 And I like how you can tell Google and Google all that, well, let's 606 00:37:54,165 --> 00:37:58,075 increase the bids then to get those types of people to your website. 607 00:37:58,575 --> 00:38:01,675 You said something which was a bit of a throwaway comment that 608 00:38:01,675 --> 00:38:03,125 I want to sort of come back to. 609 00:38:03,945 --> 00:38:07,385 Um, about therefore sharing the data with Google. 610 00:38:07,385 --> 00:38:08,755 What did you mean by that? 611 00:38:10,785 --> 00:38:14,970 So, uh, yeah, again, it comes down to conversion tracking and, and. 612 00:38:16,420 --> 00:38:18,080 Give me Google the best data. 613 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,760 So one is obviously the data that's coming from Google, but 614 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,530 also uploading your customer list. 615 00:38:23,530 --> 00:38:29,160 So if, for example, you have, you know, uh, an epic history in, in Facebook 616 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,960 ads in, uh, or customers that I've come, sorry, from meta ads, from other 617 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,630 channels, and you're just starting off with Google or Google has been the smaller 618 00:38:37,630 --> 00:38:40,270 player in your whole kind of media mix. 619 00:38:40,830 --> 00:38:44,230 Uploading your customer lists might help the algorithm as well. 620 00:38:45,130 --> 00:38:47,170 So one, it can be used for. 621 00:38:48,550 --> 00:38:49,300 Exclusions. 622 00:38:49,300 --> 00:38:53,550 So, you know, Google knows that these X amount of customers 623 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:54,800 have already bought from you. 624 00:38:54,820 --> 00:38:56,270 Google just doesn't know about it. 625 00:38:56,540 --> 00:39:00,140 So you can start mix, uh, yeah, matching them and excluding them. 626 00:39:00,270 --> 00:39:01,640 Your type of funnel campaigns. 627 00:39:02,330 --> 00:39:07,980 Um, and then I do feel like that also, if you give Google enough data, that also. 628 00:39:09,125 --> 00:39:15,855 Helps the algorithm to kinda look for, for what it should target, kinda 629 00:39:15,855 --> 00:39:23,715 giving, giving the history and um, but yeah, it mostly is tied to the 630 00:39:23,715 --> 00:39:25,305 data that you're feeding Google. 631 00:39:25,305 --> 00:39:32,250 So again, don't give it the idea that one purchase is worth three purchases. 632 00:39:32,810 --> 00:39:36,270 If you have three conversion primary conversion actions running at the 633 00:39:36,270 --> 00:39:42,280 same, so yeah, that's just make sure you're your conversion tracking because 634 00:39:42,450 --> 00:39:43,790 everything else goes from there. 635 00:39:43,790 --> 00:39:44,190 So, 636 00:39:46,485 --> 00:39:50,675 So if you, uh, um, I mean, there's a, there's a lot there, Kristians. 637 00:39:50,695 --> 00:39:53,005 Thank you for, for your, uh, insight on it. 638 00:39:53,005 --> 00:39:54,695 I'm really curious by it. 639 00:39:56,110 --> 00:39:57,660 There's a lot there to think about. 640 00:39:57,660 --> 00:40:00,180 I mean, in some respects, what you've talked about is, I like it because 641 00:40:00,180 --> 00:40:01,690 it's quite straightforward and simple. 642 00:40:01,700 --> 00:40:05,270 It's not, you know, convoluted, which is quite helpful. 643 00:40:05,900 --> 00:40:09,750 Um, but it makes the assumption that you've got existing data. 644 00:40:10,190 --> 00:40:16,380 What happens if you are just starting out, uh, you start in an eCommerce business? 645 00:40:16,945 --> 00:40:20,115 How does your strategy for Google ads then change? 646 00:40:20,115 --> 00:40:21,205 I'm new to Google ads. 647 00:40:21,205 --> 00:40:22,185 I've got a new business. 648 00:40:22,185 --> 00:40:25,145 I've not really got any sales data of any history of any kind. 649 00:40:25,815 --> 00:40:26,985 I'm selling a widget. 650 00:40:27,235 --> 00:40:30,285 I know Google ads is going to be part of that campaign. 651 00:40:30,875 --> 00:40:33,855 What's the best place to sort of start with something like that? 652 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:42,880 um, I actually found from my experience that Google should be an add on channel 653 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:50,240 sometime further down the line, not the channel that you actually start with. 654 00:40:50,730 --> 00:40:51,160 Um. 655 00:40:51,950 --> 00:40:55,970 Yeah, there obviously are some exclusions to that, but generally 656 00:40:55,970 --> 00:41:00,570 for eCommerce, I found that being the case that usually Meta and, and, and, 657 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,440 uh, yeah, Meta is the primary one. 658 00:41:05,470 --> 00:41:09,740 And even when we have gotten our accounts up to a scale, usually 659 00:41:09,750 --> 00:41:15,190 the split is still like 30, where Meta is the biggest spender. 660 00:41:15,730 --> 00:41:18,910 Um, and just, if you're starting out, I would probably. 661 00:41:19,855 --> 00:41:27,265 Say, give your marketing spend to Meta first and then, uh, start kind of 662 00:41:27,295 --> 00:41:29,495 integrating Google in the picture as well. 663 00:41:29,925 --> 00:41:32,665 Um, and if you do start with a completely fresh account. 664 00:41:33,850 --> 00:41:37,230 Then I would say, uh, yeah, run the standard shopping campaign. 665 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:43,690 First go with manual CPC because you don't have the data to start running 666 00:41:43,690 --> 00:41:47,910 a target role as, or leveraging any smart bidding strategies. 667 00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:53,380 Uh, Do create a brand search campaign as well, uh, I'm not a fan of them or I'm 668 00:41:53,380 --> 00:42:00,070 not a fan of them at scale because, uh, I think that's a big, uh, big pain point 669 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:05,840 for, for Google as well and other agencies or other freelancers running Google ads 670 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,320 is telling you that your brand search is basically your Google ads and your 671 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,520 return on brand search is your Google ads, but for a fresh account to start 672 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:19,170 running a brand search campaign, it's, it can be Get you those first conversions 673 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:26,680 in those first kind of data points in so, uh, it's a slow process, but It will 674 00:42:26,780 --> 00:42:32,240 will help yet So just give Google some sort of an idea of how your customer 675 00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:37,940 looks like even if they came in through a branded search Campaign, but the first 676 00:42:37,940 --> 00:42:45,055 campaign is probably standard shopping manual CPC and Yeah That's probably 677 00:42:45,055 --> 00:42:47,715 the first part of running a campaign. 678 00:42:47,765 --> 00:42:51,975 Even before running a campaign, there's probably tons to do with 679 00:42:51,975 --> 00:42:56,195 your product feed optimization within your Google Merchant Center account, 680 00:42:56,255 --> 00:42:58,135 so that's another beast completely. 681 00:42:59,035 --> 00:43:03,815 But that's probably just as important as conversion tracking 682 00:43:03,825 --> 00:43:05,795 before you start running anything. 683 00:43:06,125 --> 00:43:06,455 Hmm. 684 00:43:06,865 --> 00:43:07,575 Um, yeah. 685 00:43:08,605 --> 00:43:08,835 Yeah. 686 00:43:08,845 --> 00:43:12,805 I mean, uh, the shopping feed optimization is something that we seem, 687 00:43:12,815 --> 00:43:14,235 we seem to be constantly tweaking. 688 00:43:14,700 --> 00:43:16,770 Uh, with our, with our stuff on Google. 689 00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:23,750 I'm intrigued though, why you would say if you're new, if you're, if 690 00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:28,420 you're established, um, I liked what you said, then your meta Google split 691 00:43:28,420 --> 00:43:30,920 should be around 60, 40, maybe 70, 30. 692 00:43:31,550 --> 00:43:35,650 Um, I'm curious as to why, if you're starting out, you would focus 693 00:43:35,790 --> 00:43:40,840 the majority, if not all of that budget onto something like meta. 694 00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:43,000 Why not Google straight away? 695 00:43:44,605 --> 00:43:49,255 Um, yeah, even though Google Is search intent based and even with 696 00:43:49,255 --> 00:43:53,285 shopping campaigns, you, you get to put your product out there with, 697 00:43:53,375 --> 00:43:55,425 uh, with all of the competitors. 698 00:43:55,595 --> 00:44:01,035 So you can, you know, they can compare the prices, they can compare, uh, reviews, 699 00:44:01,285 --> 00:44:05,415 images, like how the product looks itself before they make a decision to click. 700 00:44:05,925 --> 00:44:15,475 But there's probably been already some sort of, um, kind of awareness 701 00:44:15,475 --> 00:44:18,315 generated, like for that product itself. 702 00:44:18,530 --> 00:44:19,040 Yeah. 703 00:44:19,780 --> 00:44:24,660 And when someone goes looking for a product, they see, you know, your brand 704 00:44:24,670 --> 00:44:29,960 and brand A and brand B, it might be the case that they click on a competitor just 705 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,750 because they've seen them on Facebook and they have some sort of already 706 00:44:34,330 --> 00:44:40,045 brand recognition with them because Yeah, you're still, you're still fresh, 707 00:44:40,045 --> 00:44:43,235 you're still new, you're showing up there, but they just don't know you, 708 00:44:43,235 --> 00:44:46,955 and they might have seen, you know, one or two Facebook ads from a competitor, 709 00:44:47,285 --> 00:44:49,325 so that's where the click goes as well. 710 00:44:49,630 --> 00:44:50,020 Yeah. 711 00:44:50,495 --> 00:44:56,395 That's probably where Google and Facebook really ties together, is that 712 00:44:57,125 --> 00:45:03,335 Facebook is amazing for Brand awareness, visibility, and just building that kind 713 00:45:03,335 --> 00:45:06,435 of trust already with the product itself. 714 00:45:06,435 --> 00:45:11,985 So, um, yeah, in most cases, uh, Google success is really 715 00:45:11,985 --> 00:45:14,685 tied into, uh, Facebook success. 716 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:15,390 Yeah. 717 00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:16,500 That's interesting. 718 00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:20,100 Well, I, it's quite an interesting viewpoint. 719 00:45:20,100 --> 00:45:24,970 I wonder, I've heard before actually, um, and certainly the balance of ad spend. 720 00:45:24,970 --> 00:45:28,850 I've, we've talked a lot about that in the past, but I think, um, it's interesting. 721 00:45:28,850 --> 00:45:32,200 If you are starting out, Meta over Google is, is a probably a good place to start. 722 00:45:33,100 --> 00:45:34,200 What do you think dear listener? 723 00:45:34,590 --> 00:45:35,700 Agree or disagree? 724 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:36,860 I'm curious to know. 725 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,160 Right, Christians, listen, I've totally enjoyed the conversation, man. 726 00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:44,690 Lots of notes, as always, and but I'm also aware of time. 727 00:45:44,690 --> 00:45:46,270 So I probably should bring this to a close. 728 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,230 If people want to reach out to you, if they want to connect with you, 729 00:45:49,230 --> 00:45:50,530 what's the best way to do that? 730 00:45:51,405 --> 00:45:55,135 Um, yeah, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. 731 00:45:55,275 --> 00:45:56,645 Uh, I'm posting there a lot. 732 00:45:56,695 --> 00:46:00,345 Even if you just want to follow for the content, I'm trying to do 733 00:46:00,625 --> 00:46:03,275 more, more, more posts, uh, lately. 734 00:46:03,825 --> 00:46:05,865 Um, yeah, you can connect. 735 00:46:05,865 --> 00:46:09,255 I don't know if, uh, they probably see my name somewhere so they can 736 00:46:09,255 --> 00:46:12,165 find me on LinkedIn or go to imamedia. 737 00:46:12,505 --> 00:46:18,320 com, uh, And yeah, you can, you should find a Calendly button there 738 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,780 to, to jump on a call with us. 739 00:46:22,330 --> 00:46:29,670 Yeah, we, we even, uh, we know that kinda getting, getting, uh, starting to work 740 00:46:29,670 --> 00:46:31,400 with an agency is a tough commitment. 741 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:32,450 It's a tough decision. 742 00:46:32,450 --> 00:46:37,520 So even if you just want to have a free audit, uh, we do that as well. 743 00:46:37,730 --> 00:46:39,500 Uh, recommendations, everything. 744 00:46:40,755 --> 00:46:41,925 You know, no strings attached. 745 00:46:41,925 --> 00:46:48,495 So that's how we, we really want to give value first, uh, to anyone out there. 746 00:46:48,495 --> 00:46:52,145 Cause there's really a lot of ways for you to lose money on Google 747 00:46:52,145 --> 00:46:53,805 and, and not do the right thing. 748 00:46:54,295 --> 00:46:58,345 Uh, so we just, yeah, our priority is to, to make everyone happy. 749 00:46:58,345 --> 00:47:00,225 And if it leads to something, yeah, then yeah. 750 00:47:00,595 --> 00:47:03,005 Uh, but yeah, probably I would say LinkedIn then, uh, probably 751 00:47:03,385 --> 00:47:05,085 that was a longer answer that. 752 00:47:05,755 --> 00:47:05,935 No, she 753 00:47:06,250 --> 00:47:07,280 That's fine, find 754 00:47:07,770 --> 00:47:09,025 but, uh, 755 00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:12,240 we will of course link to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. 756 00:47:12,330 --> 00:47:13,040 Uh, 757 00:47:13,185 --> 00:47:14,555 Right, so that's, that's, yeah. 758 00:47:14,895 --> 00:47:15,085 Go 759 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:16,240 we'll put those in the show notes. 760 00:47:16,241 --> 00:47:19,300 So if you're listening on a podcast, just go to the show notes on the 761 00:47:19,300 --> 00:47:20,490 app, you'll find the link there. 762 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,340 If you're watching on YouTube, we'll put the link in the description. 763 00:47:24,495 --> 00:47:27,385 And, of course, if you've signed up to the newsletter, it'll just be in 764 00:47:27,385 --> 00:47:30,135 the email, just click the link in the email, it's very, very simple. 765 00:47:30,535 --> 00:47:31,145 Uh, but that's aimemedia. 766 00:47:31,146 --> 00:47:36,935 com, I pronounced it wrong, so it's not Aimee, it's Aimee, A I M E media. 767 00:47:37,285 --> 00:47:39,735 Yeah, so there are different ways to pronounce it. 768 00:47:39,736 --> 00:47:44,065 We honestly haven't settled on a one way, uh, ourselves. 769 00:47:45,830 --> 00:47:46,690 We just keep changing. 770 00:47:46,950 --> 00:47:49,520 I have a company called Aurion, A U R I O N. 771 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,660 Um, and that's actually the, you know, the, the group, the 772 00:47:52,660 --> 00:47:54,050 company's group is Aurion. 773 00:47:54,050 --> 00:47:55,110 Everything comes under Aurion. 774 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,820 And the amount of times you, I, you know, people will say 775 00:47:57,820 --> 00:47:59,290 it's Matt from Orion, Orion. 776 00:47:59,750 --> 00:48:02,480 I just, it's just, no one knows how to pronounce it. 777 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,660 I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it right, so I'm with you. 778 00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:05,620 You know, I just call it Aurion. 779 00:48:05,780 --> 00:48:06,815 I just sound really confident. 780 00:48:08,665 --> 00:48:12,075 But of course, we will have all of that, like I say, in the show notes. 781 00:48:12,405 --> 00:48:15,435 Listen, Kristians, thank you so much for coming on to the show, man. 782 00:48:15,465 --> 00:48:17,345 Genuinely love the conversation. 783 00:48:17,725 --> 00:48:21,565 Really, really appreciate it, and I hope, I hope you have a tremendous 784 00:48:21,565 --> 00:48:24,075 success with your agency and with what you're doing with ads. 785 00:48:24,875 --> 00:48:28,815 I'll follow you on LinkedIn, I'm gonna learn a lot, no doubt, but yeah, 786 00:48:28,815 --> 00:48:30,255 thanks man, really appreciate it. 787 00:48:30,585 --> 00:48:31,685 Pleasure being here, Matt. 788 00:48:31,715 --> 00:48:32,555 Uh, yeah. 789 00:48:32,615 --> 00:48:35,615 Uh, amazing, amazing, uh, podcast experience. 790 00:48:36,005 --> 00:48:37,625 That's good, wow, that's always helpful, 791 00:48:38,255 --> 00:48:38,615 Yeah. 792 00:48:39,185 --> 00:48:40,405 keeps people coming back. 793 00:48:40,965 --> 00:48:44,465 What a great conversation, huge thanks again to Kristians for joining me 794 00:48:44,465 --> 00:48:49,265 today, also big shout out to today's show sponsor, the incredible eCommerce 795 00:48:49,555 --> 00:48:54,140 Cohort, I appreciate, incredible I'm involved, hence it's incredible. 796 00:48:54,430 --> 00:48:55,330 Sounds a bit arrogant. 797 00:48:55,350 --> 00:48:59,780 Anyway, uh, but remember to check them out at ecommercecohort. 798 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:00,520 com. 799 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,020 That's the group, the membership, the mastermind, whatever you want to call it. 800 00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:03,960 We're all in there every month. 801 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:04,640 Come join us. 802 00:49:05,010 --> 00:49:07,800 Be sure to follow the eCommerce Podcast wherever you get your 803 00:49:07,820 --> 00:49:11,030 podcasts from because we've got yet more great conversations lined up. 804 00:49:11,570 --> 00:49:13,260 I don't want you to miss any of them. 805 00:49:15,705 --> 00:49:18,575 And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. 806 00:49:19,105 --> 00:49:20,325 You are awesome. 807 00:49:20,375 --> 00:49:20,955 Yes, you are. 808 00:49:21,095 --> 00:49:22,035 Created awesome. 809 00:49:22,065 --> 00:49:24,325 It's just a burden you have to bear. 810 00:49:24,365 --> 00:49:25,365 Christians has to bear it. 811 00:49:25,405 --> 00:49:26,305 I've got to bear it. 812 00:49:26,705 --> 00:49:27,765 You've got to bear it as well. 813 00:49:27,855 --> 00:49:31,135 Now, the eCommerce Podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 814 00:49:31,135 --> 00:49:34,995 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 815 00:49:35,385 --> 00:49:37,215 The team that makes this show possible is. 816 00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:40,970 The Wonderful, Beautiful and Talented Sadaf Beynon, and Equally 817 00:49:40,970 --> 00:49:42,770 Beautiful, Talented Tanya Hutzalak. 818 00:49:43,070 --> 00:49:46,690 Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you'd 819 00:49:46,690 --> 00:49:50,190 like to read the transcript or show notes, head over to the website eCommercePodcast. 820 00:49:51,110 --> 00:49:54,560 net, where incidentally you can sign up for the newsletter, which I've 821 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,180 mentioned if you haven't done so already. 822 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,230 So that's it from me. 823 00:49:58,240 --> 00:49:59,560 That's it from Kristians. 824 00:49:59,580 --> 00:50:01,940 Thank you so much for joining us. 825 00:50:01,970 --> 00:50:04,080 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 826 00:50:04,430 --> 00:50:05,390 I'll see you next time. 827 00:50:05,590 --> 00:50:06,240 Bye for now.