Speaker: 00:00:00

I believe

again, if you want to get a blessing,

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you need to make a leap of faith.

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And for different people that those are

different steps, different leaps.

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don't be discouraged.

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I would say don't be discouraged

because you feel lonely,

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because there are number

of people who feel lonely.

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But if they would know about each other,

they would be less lonely.

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Well,

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Matthias, it's an honor

to have you on the podcast today.

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So we're here in Ireland,

but you're originally not from from here.

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Could you tell me where you were born?

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And if you were raised in a Christian home

and just a little bit about your

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your background as we get started Sure.

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I, I originally come from the Netherlands.

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Moved to Ireland

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two years ago and born and raised in a,

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Dutch Reformed church

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the Dutch Reformed Church that

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and to see what it resembles,

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what it is, kind of what you compare it

with in, in the States,

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which kind of would be

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well, back in 1819, I've read,

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the Dutch, established

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the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church

in New Amsterdam,

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nowadays

in, in New York and back and back then.

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No. After that they, renamed it

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rebranded to the RCA,

the reformed Church of America.

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So and out of that many branches,

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came, but

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that's where you kind of

can compare it with the.

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That's the Dutch Reformed Church

I grew up in.

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So born and raised in that church

in that setting,

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really appreciated that.

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And also my parents,

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they made sure I, I knew the word and,

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went to a Christian schools and,

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so and yeah, always have been active

within the church.

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And well after when,

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when when growing up, I always have had a,

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a passion

and zeal for evangelizing, reaching out.

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So I, I've done that also in

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different ways.

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later on, I when, when I grew up in that

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and started living on my, on my own and

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I went and I met my wife

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and she went to a Baptist church,

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well, that's kind of trouble, of course,

because in my Dutch

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Reformed Church, you have, for example,

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the infant baptism,

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and the Baptist churches

do the believers baptism.

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So that's an issue.

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And that was also an issue between

my wife and myself.

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That's at the beginning,

because I was very,

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fond of, or convinced about the

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infant baptism and, yeah.

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So that was an issue.

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But later on I came to realize

the believer’s baptism actually was,

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the biblical one.

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so, yeah, the,

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and while we were going out,

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my, my wife and I, we,

we visited that, Baptist church, but,

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we also went to a reformed church

that I went to.

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So it was back and forth, back and forth.

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But after, after, after marriage,

we we decided,

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after six months I believe, or something

we decided to go to the,

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Baptist Church and,

when at the Baptist church,

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it was a small church, but it was

it was good and nice to be there.

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However, I always sense

there was something doctrinally,

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especially with the,

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dispensation and those kinds of things.

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I never understood it, okay,

I want to grab on to that one.

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So the dispensation, dispensationalism

and so forth.

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I always thought that was just

more of a thing in American churches.

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But you're saying you definitely had

that where you were at?

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Well, American churches all over.

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All over, all over the place.

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So was that with this? What,

like like the church?

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There was this was a, Canadian missionary.

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Okay. Okay. That.

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yeah, but there are plenty,

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or plenty, plenty,

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Dutch churches

who who would believe in that?

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Okay.

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That's helpful context.

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Yeah, I would that would be initially

that was a little confusing

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when hearing that part of like okay.

But it's interesting.

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It's a, a, it's

a, it's a big it's a big thing.

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And of course you have differences

within dispensationalism.

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I've learned of course.

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But I back

then I never really understood it.

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And I didn't really want to,

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explore that topic because,

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you know, I didn't really saw the benefit

to anything. So,

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but yeah, at some point,

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there were some other things,

in that church,

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and we left that church in 2017.

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But at the end.

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There was I'm not sure how or why,

but we came across,

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there was a question about,

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one Corinthians 11 and,

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what that would mean.

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So I found that interesting.

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So I went, into that for myself.

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I came to the conclusion

there is so much to it,

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to one Corinthians 11,

to the head covering.

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So it took me a few months.

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I made a report of 55 pages out of it

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because there is so, so much to it,

because I want to understand the meaning

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of the words, the Paul using, for example,

what means praying?

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What means prophesying,

what means shame, nakedness?

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What is covering,

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what is gathering,

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what is glory, etc., etc.

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so there are many things angels, you know,

there are so many things attached to it.

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So to and I believe personally,

it took the devil centuries

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to take away that from

the Christian churches, because Protestant

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and Catholic churches, they will use it,

especially the Protestant have,

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rejected it. More and more.

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And also within

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anabaptist churches it’s

becoming less and less

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or smaller and smaller,

however you want to define it.

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But there's so much, so much to it.

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so, yeah, I came to the, to the conclusion

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that,

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but that we should use it

and that we should practice it

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and, not just in the sense of the,

the headship order,

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although there is a sense to it, but

I think its main the main point is glory,

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as in, I believe God is way

more important, main way more focused on,

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receiving his glory

than in maintaining his headship.

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Because if if his position is really,

truly his,

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his main interest,

then he would not come in his son

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to die for a sinful people like us,

so that in the sense

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he he want to be glorified by

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something, someone, right?

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And that is with the with the glory.

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And I found that so fascinating.

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So and I came to that conclusion

and I looked around in the Netherlands.

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And where, where is that practiced

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Were you able to

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find anywhere that it was a no,

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So I so I had

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I had to go I had to go online.

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Okay.

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And I came across the Anabaptist groups,

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so I thought, wow, that's nice,

but they are pretty far away.

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So. So you had not heard

of the Anabaptists

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or encountered

that teaching until this point?

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Yes and no.

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Yes. In the sense

of when I went to high school,

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I still remember

there was in religious class

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we had every week,

we had 1 or 2 hours of a religious class,

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and there was half a page

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or one page about Anabaptists.

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Now, this is in the Dutch school system.

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Correct. A Christian, or a Christian?

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Reformed school system.

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And I'm not sure

if they are still using that book.

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But anyhow, in the book that I was using,

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and that was connected to Munster.

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So it was, it was negative.

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Yeah. So and that's a whole,

a whole story.

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And I actually want to do an Episode

on Munster or something, but,

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that's one of the, unfortunate examples

of the Anabaptist story, right?

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Where it went

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horribly wrong and, and a lot of heresy

and things got got mixed in with it.

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That's interesting.

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That's the example that they used.

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But if you would ask

a regular Dutch person, but also a regular

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Christian in the Netherlands

and say Anabaptist, they say what?

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Baptist?

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No, no, no Anabaptist.

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And they wouldn't have a clue.

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They wouldn't have a clue.

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So, there is, some kind of

Mennonite church,

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very liberal

one, in the Netherlands as you,

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how would you call that

a remnant of the previous times?

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But it is once and again that's liberal.

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That is.

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I wouldn't

find the head covering it there.

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I just put it out that way.

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So, so yeah, I came to that conclusion.

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Well, and I saw the Anabaptists

and I said, well,

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that's that's good to know

that at least some people do it.

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However, they are not nearby.

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But, you know, if you start with that,

you also come to,

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you encounter other topics

as the nonresistance and as,

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as jewelry. And,

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just later on, also did, the kingdom,

Two Kingdom Concept.

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You encounter that and then,

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especially with the two other topics

after the head covering,

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topic was,

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I came to a conclusion and again,

it was the Anabaptists.

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They that they practice

it and or believed it and

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so yeah, that's, that that's a bit,

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2000, 17, 18, 19 kind of that period.

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so a lot of these

you mentioned others too.

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So nonresistance or, you know, enemy love,

I guess you could say, two kingdoms,

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you know, modesty, you know, some of the

teachings on jewelry, things like that.

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Where are you finding this teaching?

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Just on online as you searched

or where were you encountering these?

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Well, I would,

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because I,

I would encounter Anabaptist websites

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and thus learning more about what

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what they believed.

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And we also

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we, me and my wife, we had one child, boy,

nine years at the moment.

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We want to do homeschooling or

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we are homeschooling, but we want to back

then we want to homeschool.

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And, you don't really have Dutch,

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curriculum

for homeschooling in Netherlands

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because it's a very small group of people

to do to do homeschooling in that place.

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People can, though, people can though.

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Yes, at the moment.

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But, my personal opinion

is that it is going,

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the wrong direction

politically at that point.

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So, but that's,

that's a whole other topic.

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But that, that is one of the main reasons,

one of the two reasons why

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me and my wife are so moved to Ireland,

just because we

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we know certain things,

we expect certain things to change.

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And, in Ireland it's more

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ingrained, in the Constitution, the, the,

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freedom of education by the parents

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and in the Netherlands

is more in an article within the law.

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So they can they won't really change it

and I suspect, but they will

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go around it,

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without changing that, that is,

that is what,

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what what I think I'm seeing, so.

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But anyhow, we we

we were thinking of going,

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to do homeschooling and we need to have

a, an English curriculum,

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and we've learned through friends,

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About an address in Wales.

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And there you have the nationwide church.

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Yeah. And they have a mission there.

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And they, they send out books and,

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I believe, and also the, curriculum.

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So we ordered a curriculums there.

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And at one point they

they also added to the,

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to the package, they added,

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an invitation to the conference

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that they have

at the end of November, early December.

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It always have a conference then.

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so we thought, well, we should go there.

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So we,

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we went there and at that point we, we,

we didn't know any Dutch anabaptists.

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But when we went to

that, when we went to that,

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conference in Wales, we,

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we got to know two other Dutch

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Anabaptist families

that that was an eye opening.

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It was, happy to to know

that there are some other people,

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going into that direction and,

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well, from there on,

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we we especially with one other couple,

we, we maintained contact,

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although they,

they lived 2 - 2.5 hours away from us.

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So it's not something that you do it

every week, you know.

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But anyhow, it was good.

256

00:14:00,506 --> 00:14:03,926

Oh, and at that conference, we also met a

257

00:14:03,926 --> 00:14:06,929

and a couple, a couple from Wisconsin,

258

00:14:07,304 --> 00:14:10,724

and they invited us

to come over to visit them.

259

00:14:10,724 --> 00:14:13,060

And I believe we

we went there for two weeks, I think.

260

00:14:13,060 --> 00:14:15,020

I'm not sure. I think so.

261

00:14:15,020 --> 00:14:16,105

And, so, yeah.

262

00:14:16,105 --> 00:14:18,566

So we said, to that invitation

we said yes.

263

00:14:18,566 --> 00:14:23,737

So we went there and, the brother asked

before we came, what do we want to do.

264

00:14:24,363 --> 00:14:26,782

So, we want to meet the people

265

00:14:26,782 --> 00:14:29,702

because we want to see what is life like.

266

00:14:29,702 --> 00:14:31,453

You know, for an Anabaptist

267

00:14:31,453 --> 00:14:34,790

thinking it is totally different

from what I normally do.

268

00:14:35,124 --> 00:14:38,085

So, yeah. So, he said.

269

00:14:38,085 --> 00:14:39,169

Yeah, sure. So,

270

00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:41,964

we went there and we

271

00:14:41,964 --> 00:14:45,259

visited almost every day,

at least 2 families.

272

00:14:45,718 --> 00:14:48,470

So it and it was really, really nice.

273

00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:52,141

I myself,

I could, just throw in with a revisit,

274

00:14:52,141 --> 00:14:55,936

a different topic, you know, and,

and this is that so really, really fun.

275

00:14:56,353 --> 00:14:58,063

So, but,

276

00:14:58,063 --> 00:14:59,732

Yeah, that was, that was good.

277

00:14:59,732 --> 00:15:04,069

So really,

really appreciate that from from them.

278

00:15:05,446 --> 00:15:07,448

three years ago we,

279

00:15:07,448 --> 00:15:10,451

we kind of as a family, we came,

280

00:15:11,243 --> 00:15:13,454

we saw things changing.

281

00:15:13,454 --> 00:15:16,457

Well, we think we see things

changing politically.

282

00:15:17,875 --> 00:15:20,878

And that always takes time

in politics. So,

283

00:15:21,503 --> 00:15:24,089

concerning homeschooling

and we at that point,

284

00:15:24,089 --> 00:15:27,092

we were not part of the church.

285

00:15:27,384 --> 00:15:29,887

We were, well, sitting at home,

286

00:15:29,887 --> 00:15:33,182

doing some, on a Sunday,

we would listen to

287

00:15:33,223 --> 00:15:36,185

church, church services and,

288

00:15:37,728 --> 00:15:40,105

from Anabaptist in, in the States,

289

00:15:41,190 --> 00:15:43,859

and, but we we missed

290

00:15:43,859 --> 00:15:46,946

the fellowship with people and,

291

00:15:47,905 --> 00:15:50,908

some gray haired men have told me that,

292

00:15:51,951 --> 00:15:53,369

they told me Matthijs,

293

00:15:53,369 --> 00:15:57,957

if there is a big thing in your life

that you need to do, do it.

294

00:15:57,957 --> 00:16:01,835

Do it before your child

or your children are 10.

295

00:16:02,586 --> 00:16:04,922

So and I think there's some truth in that.

296

00:16:04,922 --> 00:16:07,925

If it is ten, 11 or 12,

it doesn't really matter, I think.

297

00:16:07,925 --> 00:16:11,428

But the, the meaning,

you know, the, there's truth in that.

298

00:16:12,012 --> 00:16:14,223

And what we thought at least.

299

00:16:14,223 --> 00:16:17,226

And compared to that, with that,

300

00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:20,771

and homeschooling changes

and not having fellowship.

301

00:16:20,771 --> 00:16:24,316

So there are multiple reasons

why we came to that.

302

00:16:25,109 --> 00:16:28,112

Thought and later

on, the decision to move.

303

00:16:28,237 --> 00:16:31,198

And, but we ourselves, we

304

00:16:31,657 --> 00:16:35,160

we started thinking, well, what if we go

where we, where would we go to.

305

00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,996

yeah, because if there's

306

00:16:36,996 --> 00:16:40,207

because if there's no other groups

in your own country you're talking about,

307

00:16:40,332 --> 00:16:43,502

you're gonna have to leave your home

country, you know, and go somewhere else.

308

00:16:43,585 --> 00:16:46,588

That's a that's a that's significant.

309

00:16:47,256 --> 00:16:49,633

And, you know, to to move like that.

310

00:16:49,633 --> 00:16:51,885

Yeah. Is it not. yes, yes, yes.

311

00:16:51,885 --> 00:16:57,683

Because it's in the mind of a Dutch person

and also for me, myself, of course.

312

00:16:58,642 --> 00:17:00,853

But also for family and friends.

313

00:17:00,853 --> 00:17:03,856

Who, who, who are not in that process.

314

00:17:03,856 --> 00:17:07,067

You go to a different country,

you know, it's kind of

315

00:17:07,109 --> 00:17:10,154

you go in the States,

you go from one state to another, but

316

00:17:10,154 --> 00:17:13,240

it's not the same thing,

I think, because it's

317

00:17:14,116 --> 00:17:17,745

culture wise, language wise

and perhaps rules.

318

00:17:17,745 --> 00:17:20,831

There are some differences

in rules and regulations in states, but,

319

00:17:21,707 --> 00:17:23,959

yeah, I think it's less,

320

00:17:23,959 --> 00:17:26,086

less changes. But

321

00:17:26,086 --> 00:17:29,006

yeah,

but one benefit is here with Ireland.

322

00:17:29,006 --> 00:17:31,425

It's part of the EU.

323

00:17:31,425 --> 00:17:34,428

So we've been thinking of,

324

00:17:34,553 --> 00:17:37,514

Well, we didn't want to leave Europe.

325

00:17:37,514 --> 00:17:39,433

We wanted to stay in Europe.

326

00:17:39,433 --> 00:17:43,062

there were three options

that we were thinking of and.

327

00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:47,149

Well, Wales, the nationwide in Wales,

nationwide also has another

328

00:17:47,733 --> 00:17:50,194

mission in, in Denmark.

329

00:17:51,403 --> 00:17:54,323

We visit them as well.

330

00:17:54,323 --> 00:17:57,326

And here in Ireland,

331

00:17:59,369 --> 00:18:01,080

we knew about,

332

00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,374

Wales later on, but that's later on.

333

00:18:04,374 --> 00:18:08,504

They only started that,

just before we moved to Ireland.

334

00:18:08,504 --> 00:18:09,213

To Denmark.

335

00:18:09,213 --> 00:18:11,381

We didn't know,

336

00:18:11,381 --> 00:18:14,384

kind of, but it was do I start?

337

00:18:15,052 --> 00:18:18,013

here in Ireland,

we at first we didn't know about Ireland,

338

00:18:18,347 --> 00:18:21,350

but one of the Anabaptist friends,

339

00:18:22,309 --> 00:18:24,728

they they bought a house

in the Netherlands.

340

00:18:24,728 --> 00:18:27,523

They needed to have that house.

341

00:18:27,523 --> 00:18:30,150

Needed some remodeling.

342

00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:33,821

And he asked some brothers here in Ireland

because he knew Ireland.

343

00:18:34,363 --> 00:18:36,865

And some brothers

went there for a week or so,

344

00:18:36,865 --> 00:18:39,451

and when they, drove back

345

00:18:39,451 --> 00:18:43,205

after that week, at the end of the week,

they to the to the airport,

346

00:18:43,330 --> 00:18:47,376

they passed our house

and they visit us for about 15 minutes.

347

00:18:47,709 --> 00:18:50,420

And that is how we got to know.

348

00:18:50,420 --> 00:18:54,091

And I also personally know, here

people from from Ireland,

349

00:18:54,716 --> 00:18:58,679

That 15 minute visit ended up

being very significant in your life.

350

00:18:59,096 --> 00:19:02,099

Yes. Then, yeah,

that's that's kind of incredible.

351

00:19:02,850 --> 00:19:04,643

And maybe that's a bit of a lesson.

352

00:19:04,643 --> 00:19:07,855

The small moments of time

that we interact with other

353

00:19:07,855 --> 00:19:10,858

people may have a much bigger effect

than we realize.

354

00:19:10,899 --> 00:19:12,067

It's specially in your case.

355

00:19:12,067 --> 00:19:14,278

So this is where you first meet people.

356

00:19:14,278 --> 00:19:17,030

From here.

You're hearing about the church.

357

00:19:17,030 --> 00:19:19,741

What then is the decision process?

358

00:19:19,741 --> 00:19:20,701

It says, okay,

359

00:19:20,701 --> 00:19:21,243

you're actually going

360

00:19:21,243 --> 00:19:24,246

to pack your family up

and move to another country completely.

361

00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:26,665

Yeah, I mean, that's that's a big step.

362

00:19:26,665 --> 00:19:30,419

I mean, it's first of all, you know, I,

I want to know.

363

00:19:30,419 --> 00:19:31,962

God. Do you want me to go?

364

00:19:33,213 --> 00:19:35,757

and I do think,

365

00:19:35,757 --> 00:19:38,927

God is blessing the ones who take action.

366

00:19:39,428 --> 00:19:41,263

The blessing only comes after the action.

367

00:19:41,263 --> 00:19:43,682

I don't think the blessing comes

before the action.

368

00:19:43,682 --> 00:19:47,019

So if, if we do a good thing

369

00:19:47,019 --> 00:19:50,230

or a pure thing or whatever,

I think God will bless that.

370

00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:52,608

Anyhow,

371

00:19:52,608 --> 00:19:55,402

and I think this step is a good step.

372

00:19:55,402 --> 00:19:58,780

I don't have to read it in a Bible,

Matthijs, you have to move, you know?

373

00:19:59,239 --> 00:20:02,159

But there are principles in the Bible,

you know, to, to

374

00:20:02,159 --> 00:20:05,162

to stay, pure, to stay, whatever.

375

00:20:05,746 --> 00:20:08,749

still asking him, you know, God,

if you want.

376

00:20:09,208 --> 00:20:12,211

If you want me to, to go, then,

377

00:20:12,711 --> 00:20:15,839

my main issue was the house I had,

378

00:20:16,131 --> 00:20:20,636

I bought a house

and I needed money to to buy a house here.

379

00:20:22,346 --> 00:20:25,098

But the

first thing was when we bought that house,

380

00:20:25,098 --> 00:20:28,727

it was for on the market

for for more than over a year.

381

00:20:29,603 --> 00:20:30,854

so, yeah, we were afraid.

382

00:20:30,854 --> 00:20:32,731

Well, that's going to take a while.

383

00:20:32,731 --> 00:20:37,319

And back then, our son was seven years,

so we thought, well,

384

00:20:37,486 --> 00:20:41,531

we still have some time left until ten,

you know, so let's,

385

00:20:41,531 --> 00:20:44,534

let's put it on the market

and then we'll see what happens.

386

00:20:46,411 --> 00:20:47,621

But my main concern,

387

00:20:47,621 --> 00:20:51,917

our second concern was concerning

the house was, well, the price wise

388

00:20:51,917 --> 00:20:57,130

I needed money, so I needed

a, I needed to have a good amount.

389

00:20:57,547 --> 00:20:58,173

Right.

390

00:20:58,173 --> 00:21:02,427

So I asked God, God,

if you want me to go, then,

391

00:21:03,637 --> 00:21:04,805

it has to be sold.

392

00:21:04,805 --> 00:21:09,518

The house needs to be sold quickly and

it has to be sold for a very good price.

393

00:21:10,394 --> 00:21:13,522

So what we normally do when we, when we,

394

00:21:14,731 --> 00:21:15,315

have someone

395

00:21:15,315 --> 00:21:18,568

over to, to do, some work for us.

396

00:21:19,236 --> 00:21:20,904

So we, we asked to real estate.

397

00:21:20,904 --> 00:21:25,075

We asked three real estate agents

to come on Monday.

398

00:21:25,450 --> 00:21:28,161

The first one came,

and that is the one I really liked

399

00:21:28,161 --> 00:21:31,164

as a person I had a, I click,

I click with him.

400

00:21:31,665 --> 00:21:34,668

And, there was, the second guy on Tuesday.

401

00:21:35,210 --> 00:21:37,087

the, the third I had on a Wednesday.

402

00:21:37,087 --> 00:21:40,632

And I really didn't like that guy

because from, from the first minute

403

00:21:40,632 --> 00:21:43,635

I really didn't have that click,

you know, but,

404

00:21:44,511 --> 00:21:48,765

but I'm, do you know, Otto

Koning the missionary

405

00:21:48,765 --> 00:21:51,768

there in far away land.

406

00:21:53,061 --> 00:21:54,604

it's slipping me where it where it was.

407

00:21:54,604 --> 00:21:56,982

But yes, I know southeast Asia somewhere.

408

00:21:56,982 --> 00:21:58,400

Papua New Guinea.

409

00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,444

Yeah.

410

00:22:00,444 --> 00:22:03,447

I remember him saying that,

411

00:22:04,906 --> 00:22:05,365

he believed

412

00:22:05,365 --> 00:22:09,202

God had signed him as a protection

there in the jungle.

413

00:22:09,202 --> 00:22:12,789

The most ugly, ugliest

guy of the jungle to protect him.

414

00:22:12,998 --> 00:22:15,375

And he was afraid of that guy

at the start.

415

00:22:15,375 --> 00:22:19,296

So that is how God sometimes works. So.

416

00:22:19,296 --> 00:22:22,257

But anyhow, I had to think about that.

417

00:22:22,257 --> 00:22:24,301

Yeah, just just a while ago.

418

00:22:24,301 --> 00:22:27,512

But I really didn't had it

click with this guy.

419

00:22:27,512 --> 00:22:30,474

But during our conversation halfway, we

420

00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:33,685

he said, well Matthijs,

I think I know someone for your house.

421

00:22:34,978 --> 00:22:38,106

So. But I didn't want to give him him the,

422

00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:42,569

the the permission to sell the house,

you know, so I, I told him, well,

423

00:22:43,987 --> 00:22:49,034

Yeah, well, you can show him the house,

but it doesn't mean that you can do

424

00:22:49,034 --> 00:22:50,911

the whole process of selling the house

425

00:22:50,911 --> 00:22:53,914

and put it on the internet or whatever,

you know, that, that kind of person.

426

00:22:54,164 --> 00:22:56,500

So he said, oh, that's fine.

That's fine, that's fine.

427

00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:57,751

So that was on Wednesday.

428

00:22:57,751 --> 00:23:01,254

And then on Friday

the guy came, he said was interested

429

00:23:01,797 --> 00:23:03,673

and that was an investment guy.

430

00:23:03,673 --> 00:23:06,676

He did an investment in, in properties.

431

00:23:07,010 --> 00:23:10,013

He walked around,

432

00:23:10,013 --> 00:23:13,016

our, our property

and we had a cup of coffee.

433

00:23:13,475 --> 00:23:16,937

During the cup of coffee,

the price went up and we sold the house,

434

00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:21,274

and we were allowed to stay in the house

for six more months.

435

00:23:21,525 --> 00:23:25,195

So we we you sold it

in, like, four days or five days, like

436

00:23:25,237 --> 00:23:28,907

if you had the first realtor on Monday

and the buyer came on Friday.

437

00:23:29,825 --> 00:23:31,284

That's amazing.

438

00:23:31,284 --> 00:23:34,287

God still makes, does wonders

and He still answers prayers.

439

00:23:34,413 --> 00:23:35,122

Oh, wow.

440

00:23:35,122 --> 00:23:36,873

So he,

441

00:23:36,873 --> 00:23:39,876

and we, we were allowed to stay there

for six more months.

442

00:23:40,377 --> 00:23:43,380

We just rented our own house from him.

443

00:23:43,463 --> 00:23:44,131

He was real.

444

00:23:44,131 --> 00:23:45,549

He was an investor.

445

00:23:45,549 --> 00:23:47,217

He wasn't going to live in it himself.

446

00:23:47,217 --> 00:23:51,596

So, So, yeah, during

that time, we bought the house in Ireland.

447

00:23:51,596 --> 00:23:53,932

We did some remodeling in the house.

448

00:23:53,932 --> 00:23:56,309

Well, we started remodeling,

449

00:23:56,309 --> 00:23:58,603

and then we, we moved,

450

00:23:58,603 --> 00:24:01,606

so to about two years ago

now, we moved here to Ireland.

451

00:24:01,982 --> 00:24:04,359

Yeah. That's again that's a big step.

452

00:24:06,153 --> 00:24:09,531

And one of the questions that I have

with that, you know, there's

453

00:24:09,531 --> 00:24:12,534

probably people listening to this

that are they're searching

454

00:24:12,742 --> 00:24:16,746

for a church, for a community

somewhere to, to join and be a part of.

455

00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,459

You clearly went through through

a process of this.

456

00:24:21,293 --> 00:24:23,378

In the Netherlands, pretty isolated.

457

00:24:23,378 --> 00:24:26,381

And then finding a place to to come to.

458

00:24:27,382 --> 00:24:30,385

What encouragement

would you give to those people

459

00:24:30,385 --> 00:24:33,388

who are maybe going through this

similar process that you went through?

460

00:24:33,972 --> 00:24:36,433

It's quite a question

because every person is different.

461

00:24:36,433 --> 00:24:36,641

Yeah.

462

00:24:36,641 --> 00:24:39,644

And there are differences

even between men and women.

463

00:24:39,686 --> 00:24:42,939

but the main thing is in, in the,

464

00:24:42,981 --> 00:24:46,860

in the Netherlands there are not,

not really that many Anabaptists.

465

00:24:47,652 --> 00:24:50,155

And if there are

466

00:24:50,155 --> 00:24:53,241

no one knows about

each other most probably.

467

00:24:54,242 --> 00:24:57,662

So that would perhaps be a good thing

to start something out for that.

468

00:24:57,662 --> 00:25:01,374

But as an encouragement.

469

00:25:02,167 --> 00:25:03,835

To start

470

00:25:03,835 --> 00:25:07,923

having the contacts

with those Dutch Anabaptist, people.

471

00:25:09,299 --> 00:25:11,927

It's easy and especially in our day,

472

00:25:11,927 --> 00:25:14,930

popular to to have the contacts

through the internet.

473

00:25:15,972 --> 00:25:18,934

And, from the States most often.

474

00:25:18,934 --> 00:25:21,937

And there is value in that.

475

00:25:23,188 --> 00:25:25,148

But one of the main

476

00:25:25,148 --> 00:25:28,318

things of Anabaptist is the, community,

477

00:25:29,569 --> 00:25:32,864

and the sense of people being together.

478

00:25:33,782 --> 00:25:36,785

So to start that,

479

00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,122

and one of the challenging thing is if,

if you

480

00:25:41,915 --> 00:25:44,501

finding other seekers,

481

00:25:44,501 --> 00:25:46,253

so to say, you know, it's, it's

482

00:25:46,253 --> 00:25:50,507

it's I'm not really sure

seekers is the right word, but it's just

483

00:25:50,507 --> 00:25:54,678

that, you will and you will encounter

other people who are not,

484

00:25:56,346 --> 00:25:59,099

thinking the same thing

about, for example, a divorce

485

00:25:59,099 --> 00:26:03,061

or remarriage or the covering

or the two Kingdom concept.

486

00:26:03,061 --> 00:26:05,313

They've never probably

haven't considered that,

487

00:26:05,313 --> 00:26:08,191

although I think that's the glue of the

whole, whole whole puzzle.

488

00:26:10,235 --> 00:26:12,070

And that is challenging.

489

00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:15,574

And I think that is a good thing,

because if you're going

490

00:26:15,574 --> 00:26:19,202

to, as an outsider,

to come and join later on

491

00:26:19,452 --> 00:26:23,039

in Anabaptist church,

perhaps here and perhaps somewhere else,

492

00:26:25,250 --> 00:26:27,669

there will be some challenges,

493

00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:32,132

especially from European and,

or even the Protestant mindset.

494

00:26:32,382 --> 00:26:35,343

There will be challenges,

and you would need to,

495

00:26:36,094 --> 00:26:39,055

need to cope with that. But,

496

00:26:40,307 --> 00:26:44,185

I believe if you have the desire to do so,

497

00:26:45,478 --> 00:26:48,481

you should make the step and the effort

498

00:26:48,898 --> 00:26:51,818

to actually engage

499

00:26:51,818 --> 00:26:54,821

with the people you want to engage with.

500

00:26:55,405 --> 00:27:01,119

Most people are looking for a church,

we did as well, to just establish church.

501

00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,914

Where is, some kind of stability?

502

00:27:06,166 --> 00:27:09,169

people will need to,

503

00:27:09,502 --> 00:27:12,505

make a leap of faith.

504

00:27:12,964 --> 00:27:16,384

And again,

I believe if the if the step is right,

505

00:27:16,843 --> 00:27:19,763

not selfish, but for others, I think,

506

00:27:21,431 --> 00:27:23,850

God will bless that.

507

00:27:23,850 --> 00:27:27,187

Our main point

for one of the main points for us

508

00:27:27,354 --> 00:27:31,107

was not really, ourselves,

but more for the son.

509

00:27:32,150 --> 00:27:35,153

So in that sense, because I think we would

510

00:27:35,737 --> 00:27:40,867

we would have as us to we would have coped

within that environment,

511

00:27:41,409 --> 00:27:44,913

but for him in the future, etc.,

I think that would be a good thing.

512

00:27:45,664 --> 00:27:48,667

And I think God blesses that. And,

513

00:27:49,501 --> 00:27:52,504

where to live is one of the main points,

514

00:27:53,046 --> 00:27:57,634

where my main questions

and I believe God provides, you know, the

515

00:27:57,842 --> 00:28:02,263

I cannot I cannot work for the amount

that that the house went up.

516

00:28:02,263 --> 00:28:04,724

You know, I cannot work for that.

517

00:28:04,724 --> 00:28:07,727

And when I came here, I didn't have a job.

518

00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,730

I just did remodeling for six months.

519

00:28:10,730 --> 00:28:13,108

I send out two resumes, and I found,

520

00:28:14,109 --> 00:28:17,112

the job that I, prayed for.

521

00:28:17,529 --> 00:28:20,281

I believe God answers prayers,

522

00:28:20,281 --> 00:28:22,367

but I believe again,

523

00:28:22,367 --> 00:28:26,079

if you want to get a blessing,

you need to make a leap of faith.

524

00:28:26,538 --> 00:28:30,667

And for different people that those are

different steps, different leaps.

525

00:28:31,584 --> 00:28:33,253

Yeah, don't be discouraged.

526

00:28:33,253 --> 00:28:36,297

I would say don't be discouraged

because you feel lonely,

527

00:28:36,297 --> 00:28:39,384

because there are number

of people who feel lonely.

528

00:28:39,384 --> 00:28:42,387

But if they would know about each other,

they would be less lonely.

529

00:28:43,179 --> 00:28:45,598

And if God wants,

530

00:28:45,598 --> 00:28:49,018

a church there,

then he can start a church there.

531

00:28:49,018 --> 00:28:52,188

But you will need to have humble people.

532

00:28:53,022 --> 00:28:56,234

And if people stick with their own,

533

00:29:00,196 --> 00:29:01,614

Doctrines and beliefs

534

00:29:01,614 --> 00:29:05,577

at certain points,

you know, it's difficult to to get a

535

00:29:06,286 --> 00:29:08,580

a church established.

536

00:29:08,580 --> 00:29:11,082

I think many things are possible.

537

00:29:11,082 --> 00:29:12,333

Many things are possible.

538

00:29:13,918 --> 00:29:14,753

But again,

539

00:29:14,753 --> 00:29:18,298

for every person that that might see,

might look different.

540

00:29:19,299 --> 00:29:21,551

And if someone really

541

00:29:21,551 --> 00:29:24,679

is searching or,

searching for something, then

542

00:29:25,472 --> 00:29:28,683

there are conferences, you know,

you can go to Wales for conference.

543

00:29:28,683 --> 00:29:32,645

You can come to Ireland for conferences,

you can come for a visit

544

00:29:33,271 --> 00:29:36,274

and then experience.

545

00:29:36,274 --> 00:29:39,277

You don't really have to go to the states

for that anymore, right?

546

00:29:39,569 --> 00:29:43,490

So we're happy that the Anabaptists

came back again, you know, after those,

547

00:29:43,573 --> 00:29:45,116

that many centuries, right?

548

00:29:45,116 --> 00:29:46,618

So we're happy about that.

549

00:29:46,618 --> 00:29:49,621

Well, it's so is so interesting

because Netherlands,

550

00:29:49,621 --> 00:29:53,750

not probably not far from where you lived

is where Menno Simons would have lived.

551

00:29:53,792 --> 00:29:55,126

Right.

552

00:29:55,126 --> 00:29:56,753

So it's kind of ironic in a way.

553

00:29:56,753 --> 00:30:00,965

You you come from where a lot of this

started for many of our people

554

00:30:01,090 --> 00:30:03,092

right there in the Netherlands. Yeah.

You know.

555

00:30:03,092 --> 00:30:05,094

I think. Yeah, that was that was

556

00:30:06,179 --> 00:30:07,639

really helpful, what you just shared.

557

00:30:07,639 --> 00:30:09,808

I think the,

558

00:30:09,808 --> 00:30:12,769

the piece I'm I'm taking away from this is

559

00:30:13,144 --> 00:30:15,980

the isolation is a real thing

560

00:30:15,980 --> 00:30:20,109

to remember, you know,

and for you and your family saying,

561

00:30:20,443 --> 00:30:24,072

we need to have a real community around

us, that you I guess you,

562

00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,990

you know,

you can listen to sermons on zoom

563

00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:28,368

and you can,

you know, talk to people on the phone,

564

00:30:28,368 --> 00:30:31,538

but it's not the same

as living in a community with others.

565

00:30:32,664 --> 00:30:35,583

And that's I think that's powerful. So.

566

00:30:35,583 --> 00:30:39,838

Well, as we bring this, story to a close,

567

00:30:39,838 --> 00:30:42,257

is there anything else

you would like to leave with our listeners

568

00:30:42,257 --> 00:30:43,758

or anything else

that maybe there's something

569

00:30:43,758 --> 00:30:46,761

I missed, in the story as we went along?

570

00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,889

Well, I'm, I just shared,

571

00:30:51,307 --> 00:30:54,102

a few, a few thoughts also for the ones

572

00:30:54,102 --> 00:30:57,605

who are searching for things

and looking for answers.

573

00:30:58,022 --> 00:31:01,609

But I would like to address Anabaptists

574

00:31:01,818 --> 00:31:06,531

who grew up, most often in the states

or Canada, where. But,

575

00:31:07,532 --> 00:31:12,328

they are who are in, those groups for,

576

00:31:13,454 --> 00:31:15,206

multiple years.

577

00:31:15,206 --> 00:31:18,501

That it is important to do that outreach

578

00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:22,714

to go to those places because

579

00:31:23,339 --> 00:31:26,759

yesterday we, we sang a song

that at the school, the Christian school,

580

00:31:27,135 --> 00:31:30,138

and there was a sentence of that

581

00:31:30,138 --> 00:31:33,141

people are crying out

582

00:31:33,224 --> 00:31:36,227

to be loosened from the bond,

583

00:31:36,436 --> 00:31:39,439

and people are bound by Satan.

584

00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,692

And we know Christ took away,

585

00:31:44,110 --> 00:31:46,279

the bondage of Satan.

586

00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:48,573

But we still have to resist. We need to.

587

00:31:48,573 --> 00:31:51,576

People need to believe in Jesus

and resist the devil.

588

00:31:52,577 --> 00:31:57,248

And if we don't go there as a group of

people, if the Anabaptists,

589

00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,003

if they

are reactive and not really proactive,

590

00:32:02,253 --> 00:32:05,924

then then people will stay there

in that crying,

591

00:32:05,924 --> 00:32:08,927

just like Romans 10:14 and 15 says,

592

00:32:11,137 --> 00:32:12,889

if they cry out,

593

00:32:12,889 --> 00:32:16,225

how can they cry to him

who they don't know?

594

00:32:16,643 --> 00:32:19,646

And how will they know

if they are not preached?

595

00:32:19,938 --> 00:32:22,523

And who will preach if they are not sent?

596

00:32:22,523 --> 00:32:26,361

And that is why

I think it's a proactive attitude.

597

00:32:28,404 --> 00:32:33,910

And we should go with that mindset

because as Jesus says,

598

00:32:34,535 --> 00:32:37,872

the the the them the harvest is white

599

00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,043

and he's looking for harvesters,

600

00:32:43,044 --> 00:32:44,671

for workers.

601

00:32:44,671 --> 00:32:45,880

So who is willing?

602

00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,384

Because I believe if you go somewhere,

even if you're with

603

00:32:49,717 --> 00:32:53,763

if no one is asking you to come,

because that is one of the things that

604

00:32:53,763 --> 00:32:57,225

Anabaptists do, you know, if someone asks,

they will come and start a church.

605

00:32:57,934 --> 00:32:59,852

But if they would go somewhere

606

00:33:00,853 --> 00:33:03,856

without asking and they just go there,

607

00:33:04,023 --> 00:33:08,152

they will find those who are crying out

because Christ says so.

608

00:33:09,112 --> 00:33:13,741

And and I think also here in Europe,

609

00:33:13,741 --> 00:33:16,869

in Netherlands, Ireland,

I think that is the would be

610

00:33:18,079 --> 00:33:20,498

there's there will be a great harvest

611

00:33:20,498 --> 00:33:23,626

for that and people will be released

612

00:33:23,626 --> 00:33:26,629

from that bondage of darkness way sooner.

613

00:33:27,338 --> 00:33:30,299

If we have the more proactive,

614

00:33:30,591 --> 00:33:33,302

approach to that,

615

00:33:33,302 --> 00:33:36,180

and we don't have to fear

because the harvest is white,

616

00:33:36,180 --> 00:33:37,056

we don't have to fear.

617

00:33:37,056 --> 00:33:39,851

It's not dark, you know,

we don't have to fear anything

618

00:33:39,851 --> 00:33:41,519

because the problem is already

has been given.

619

00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:43,730

We just have to do.

620

00:33:43,730 --> 00:33:47,150

so. But I'm really grateful

that there are already

621

00:33:47,150 --> 00:33:50,153

some Anabaptists groups coming here,

622

00:33:50,653 --> 00:33:54,741

establishing some, establishing

something, reaching out to people,

623

00:33:56,576 --> 00:34:00,288

and that the kingdom of God is expanding.

624

00:34:02,874 --> 00:34:06,586

That's that's a powerful note to end on.

625

00:34:06,794 --> 00:34:11,007

You know, go and bring Christ's

light around the world to these places.

626

00:34:11,549 --> 00:34:13,051

Thank you. So much for sharing.

627

00:34:13,051 --> 00:34:16,846

I hope this was an encouragement

to many people who listen to this.

628

00:34:16,929 --> 00:34:20,516

And maybe they will take those steps

that you described, whether they're

629

00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,353

seeking for a community

or whether some of these other groups

630

00:34:24,353 --> 00:34:27,482

could go to some of these places

and share Christ's light.

631

00:34:27,940 --> 00:34:29,233

Yeah, it's a powerful message.

632

00:34:29,233 --> 00:34:30,401

Thank you for sharing today.

633

00:34:30,401 --> 00:34:32,028

Matthias, thank you so much for having me.

634

00:34:33,071 --> 00:34:35,615

Thanks for listening to this episode

with Matthias.

635

00:34:35,615 --> 00:34:38,743

If you enjoyed this conversation,

you might want to check out this episode

636

00:34:38,743 --> 00:34:40,036

we did with Sister Judy,

637

00:34:40,036 --> 00:34:43,706

where she shares her story of her journey

through the Christian spectrum.

638

00:34:44,165 --> 00:34:46,209

You can find all our content

on our website

639

00:34:46,209 --> 00:34:49,212

at anabaptistperspectives.org.

640

00:34:49,212 --> 00:34:52,340

Thanks again for listening

and we'll see you in the next episode.