00:00:00 Sana: You have your house, the job is there or the family is there. The version of you that your younger self would have been proud of is technically standing in the room. It's probably hosting a podcast right now, but then there is a particular kind of pain also that doesn't show up in any any photograph of your life. And still somewhere quietly underneath all of this, there is a whisper that says, is this it? Is this how my life is supposed to be? Is this how I dreamt about it? We generally don't talk about this whisper enough. Listeners, we are taught to be grateful, to push through. To keep moving. To want what we already have. But then still, that whisper doesn't just go away just because we are ignoring it. Sometimes it gets louder.

00:01:13 Sana: Welcome to the mindful living. I am Sana, and today we are going to slow down and have a very, very honest conversation about what happens when the life you build doesn't feel the way you thought it would, and what becomes possible when you stop fighting that truth and start listening to it. And today I'm joined by Sarah Collins, an intuitive life coach and creator of The Living Fully with Sarah, who spent over twenty years as a civil engineer before her own journey through depression, overthinking, and the quiet ache of an outwardly successful life led her into mindfulness, self-inquiry, and a deeper understanding of what exactly does it mean to live. So, Sarah, welcome to the Mindful Living. Thank you for being here. Really honored.

00:02:07 Sarah Collins: Yeah. Thank you so much. And I loved that intro. It really spoke to me.

00:02:13 Sana: And, you know, Sarah, uh, some of the things I find kind of very, very similar. Of course, I also come from an engineering background, but I haven't done any kind of engineering in my professional life. You know, that's kind of the trend. It used to be like, you know, a decade back, um, yeah, ten, fifteen years back that, uh, you either will be doing an engineering degree or you getting a doctor medical degree and you'll earn lots and lots of money. Life will be all good and, you know, prosperous. Then you will get married. You'll settle. Yeah. Everything's going to be so good.

00:02:51 Sarah Collins: Yeah. It's the picture perfect life, they tell you.

00:02:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. So, um.

00:02:58 Sana: So I want to begin somewhere gentle because I think a lot of what you teach, um, it gets misunderstood from the very first sentence that, you know, when we hear that, um, when people hear that he went from a life that looks successful on the outside, um, civil engineer house, married kids, the whole picture then to talking about depression and self inquiry and presence. I think, um, I think it would be assumed, you know, one of two things either that you must have hated your life or, uh, your work is for people whose lives are visibly falling apart. So what do you think? You know, what is the misconception, uh, you keep running into about who this conversation is really for?

00:03:51 Sarah Collins: Yeah. I mean, deep down, these conversations are really for me and Whoever's listening also. I mean, I'm learning so much and growing myself, there's no end to growth, per se. But it really comes down to people who keep striving for success. This future moment that is going to supposed to make them happy, more money, all these different things that are a future projection of I'll be happy in the future when really all we have is right now. And it's, I don't want to dismiss it like it's just a choice, but it really comes down to can you be happy in this moment, no matter what the circumstance looks like? Um, it's not something that happens Overnight, but it's kind of the peeling away of the layers of like, what our conditioned mind has convinced us.

00:05:04 Speaker 3: Mhm.

00:05:05 Sarah Collins: This life should look like, or that you need to strive for things that are acceptable to everyone around you. So I think it comes down to that. And like people just feeling this sense that what I'm doing isn't working anymore. They know there's more, but it's kind of I mean, I went through this, I knew there was more, but I really didn't know where to go. I felt so alone for so many years of like, searching for things. I, I guess I'll get into my, like back in, I was very depressed in my teens, attempted suicide twice, went through my twenties kind of on Autopilot like I was living. But I really, if I think back to my twenties, I really was not. I was living in the future past. That's my whole life of my twenties. Um, and then I just had this kind of moment of, wait, there's something more. A lot of synchronicity started happening and I started getting into like reading a lot of books, a lot of videos of like eastern teachings and kind of just like weaving through what I needed out of life in those certain moments. So yeah, sorry, I went a little off topic, but.

00:06:39 Speaker 3: It was.

00:06:40 Sarah Collins: Just explaining kind of what happened with my own, um, process.

00:06:45 Sana: I'm really, really glad. I'm really happy. And, that, that, you know, you. You are here openly sharing, you know, with with all of us because I, I believe that the people who suffer the loudest, at least have permission to say something is wrong. Because unfortunately, it's, it's like what you see what you believe. But the people whose lives look fine by every external measure, they often don't even feel allowed to call it pain. You know, it's, it's like, um, and it's so unfortunate, sir. I mean, sometimes I, I feel that it's sometimes so stupid that, you get a job. Uh, probably, you, you leave your small town, you go to a big city, you work there and probably sometimes, people whom you may know from your childhood, they'll say, oh, you know, son is earning lots and lots of money. She's so happy. She's so prosperous. And here we are sitting in a small town just, uh, probably chatting in the, in the, in the afternoon and nothing else. She is very successful. So, so she is happy. It's like your level of happiness or fulfillment. Your success is equal, equal to what you are earning and what you are doing. The role that you are, you are performing.

00:08:16 Sarah Collins: Yeah, exactly. And I've, I've actually questioned friends and family, like, what does success actually mean to you? Because we have this idea that it's what society says is successful. And even I still hear it today. Um, even through like when I went through my coaching course, it was like, oh, you can be successful. And to me, success is not how much money you're bringing in what your life looks like. It's that internal state. Can I be completely content? And essentially, I won't. I don't want to say love your life because there's obviously going to be times where you don't love it, but just kind of going through life and accepting the things in life, which will then bring joy in your life. And it comes down to like, yes, I still have a home. I'm still lucky enough to have these things.

00:09:26 Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:09:26 Sarah Collins: But I've often said like, I just at least where I am in my life, I know that no matter what happens with our like housing status, um, I know that I can accept it and work through things. Um, So yeah, it really comes down to like what you define success as. And I've just like suggest to the listeners to really think about that. Like, what does true success really mean? Once you get to your deathbed, are you going to say you have a successful life going through this? I don't know, a very lucrative business or a position of status.

00:10:18 Speaker 3: Mhm.

00:10:19 Sarah Collins: Deep down, you are not happy. Um, deep down, you kind of felt like there was something missing in your life or there was a lack of joy. Um, and yeah, I just really suggest kind of noticing those things that come up and kind of questioning what success means to you. Um, and yeah, what you really do want out of this life.

00:10:48 Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely. No doubt in there. No doubt on there. Sarah.

00:10:53 Sana: I think, uh, you know, this is a very different kind of awakening than the ones we usually celebrate. And then, I mean, there are, there are, you know, industries thriving, you know, call it toxic positivity, call it the aesthetic, uh, face of, you know, wellness or self-help or self-love. Um, and, and sometimes I believe, you know, all of these have a very, have become very distorted. The intention with which the conversations they may have started, uh, the tools, the, the, the, the modalities or the channels out there. Um, I believe sometimes, you know, we kind of lose, we have, we have lost their meaning. You know, maybe, maybe for example, I actually, maybe, you know, from a childhood I am, you know, I want to be a successful business person. I want to be a successful businesswoman. And yeah, I am ambitious. Fine. Go ahead with it. But for someone you know, there's no one size fits all motivational advice or wellness advice for everyone. Just how you mentioned, Sarah, that, you know, how do you define success? Maybe for someone else, um, earning that, level of, of, uh, money or having their own house, uh, or having a car. Maybe there's a very unique story attached which gives them that inspiration. Go for it. I'm, I'm all up for it. But maybe for me that is not success. Maybe I have a very different approach at looking towards life, probably because I was handed a very different kind of template right from my childhood that this is how success looks like. You know, you get your good grades, life will be good. You get into the college, you don't even understand. You know, even if you got your good grades, your college, your education, your higher education is completely different there. The competition is completely different. Okay, fine. You are graduated. You get your job. Okay. There is AI, there is, there is the economic, you know, all the different scenario. Now, how will you navigate? So is there any stop where I can at least, you know, take some break. I can take some sigh of relief and then I can say, fine, now I need not always kind of, you know, feel like, um, suppressing myself, uh, just to achieve that success, which has been kind of handed over to me.

00:13:31 Sarah Collins: Yeah, I think, well, first, I want to comment on the awakening piece. Yeah. Um, it's really interesting that you brought it up because I so back in, it was twenty eighteen when I like started questioning life and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going through an awakening, not knowing what that meant and kind of like striving for the full awakening. And it got to a point where I was like, what does that word even mean? Like, there's so much. Like, do this, this, and this and you'll become awakened. Um, and there was just kind of a realization of like, who is the awakening actually happening to? Um, I mean, I can go very deep into that, but it was just, I don't use the term awakening. Um, because it's more of like a peeling away of all these things. We believed we were. Um, and yeah, learning, unlearning conditioning that we've had. Um, so that piece and then, um, just kind of about, I think you had said like, is there ever a break I can take or.

00:14:59 Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:15:00 Sarah Collins: Um. I mean, so if you decided I'm just gonna stop everything, I'm gonna stop striving. That actually won't stop. It's the attachment to those thoughts that you need to do something. Um, like I'm kind of at the point where building this business.

00:15:31 Speaker 3: Mhm.

00:15:31 Sarah Collins: And kind of speaking, teaching. I let go of expectations of it and kind of got to the point of what's needed now, what's needed today, I don't know what that future me is gonna look like, but there's no point in me stressing about what it should look like. Um, because if I keep doing the things I need to do today and allow kind of intuition to run my life, I don't right way to say it, but like letting life live through me and kind of like experiencing life, um, like there's no lack of drive here, but there's lots of attachment to what it should look like.

00:16:23 Speaker 3: Um, I think.

00:16:26 Sana: That's a very important point.

00:16:27 Speaker 3: Sarah.

00:16:27 Sana: That you mentioned very important distinction that whether it's the lack of drive or willpower or it is something, you know, kind of a lack of, or an attachment or maybe, you know, sometimes an addiction that you just need to be doing something, then only you know life is meaningful for you.

00:16:50 Sarah Collins: Yeah. I mean, I've a lot of the teachers I follow, and what I often say is our strongest addiction is to the mind. and to this kind of separate self, but the addiction to the mind, believing what the mind is saying when the mind is really just a tool to, um, differentiate life and to experience life.

00:17:18 Speaker 3: It is. Yes. And so.

00:17:21 Sana: that brings me, to the, the heart of your work. you talk about how identification with our thoughts is what creates so much of our suffering. That's what you just mentioned. And I think, you know, when people hear that for the first time, maybe it can feel a bit abstract or you know, it wouldn't probably make a sense. but then how does it exactly look like in in someone's everyday life? Like, where does that identification with thought quietly show up in a day in a way that, you know, most of us even wouldn't notice that we are doing it?

00:18:03 Sarah Collins: Yeah. I mean, it's not this like, easy thing to just jump in and notice what your mind is doing essentially for your life. Um, but it's, I always suggest start small, become that awareness of your thoughts because that's who we are is the awareness of everything. Um, and just kind of like, if you're very particular about what the weather is.

00:18:38 Speaker 3: Mhm.

00:18:39 Sarah Collins: If you get really upsets that it's an extremely hot temperature or that it's cold. It rain. You may not like rain.

00:18:46 Speaker 3: Mhm.

00:18:47 Sarah Collins: There's nothing you can change about that. You can't change the fact that it's raining, but it could completely ruin your day. For whatever reason, you had big plans to be outside, and it started raining. Um, and just kind of noticing those thoughts. Um, and it's just the idea that life, most of us believe that life should be different than it is. And life is exactly where it should be at this moment. If it wasn't supposed to be this way, then it would look different. Um, so yeah, I always suggest starting kind of small. Um, if you try to tackle the big things like you notice, oh my gosh, I'm in this horrible mood. I shouldn't be thinking this way. That's just another thought pattern, a negative thought pattern that things shouldn't be happening the way they do. Um, so it's just kind of starting with the awareness and noticing those thoughts, um, a slight annoyance and just kind of being like, can I, so I usually would say, can I let it go? But I've kind of started to reframe and say, can I just let it be? Can I let this situation be? Because that's the way the situation is. Um, and it's not that you're fully accepting and saying everything in life is good.

00:20:35 Speaker 3: Mhm.

00:20:35 Sarah Collins: It's just kind of saying, I can't change everything that I don't enjoy in life. So what can I do right now to change? And one thing is kind of changing your attachments to those thought patterns. but yeah, just kind of coming back to accepting, which I have a feeling a lot of, or there's going to be listeners who don't like that term accept.

00:21:05 Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:21:06 Sarah Collins: Um. But yeah, I guess just noticing those thoughts and what it's kind of doing with your day.

00:21:16 Speaker 3: Um, well, if.

00:21:18 Sana: Sarah, in a way, you, shared the essence of, of, mindfulness and yeah, I know that, uh, this word acceptance, it has a very, it could have different meaning for, you know, different people, listeners out there, but.

00:21:35 Speaker 3: It's.

00:21:35 Sana: Not about that you are escaping away or you are denying that, maybe, you don't have everything in your control or it's kind of, you know, you are accepting defeat. But, um, I believe that it's, it's this, uh, realization that try to understand what you can control. I think most, you know, as, as you said, sir, and you gave a beautiful example because, um, often we, we try to sometimes, you know, be angry or rant or, or curse on something which is completely out of hands. You know, we say that maybe, you know, we can change this, but in, in, in, in possibility, in, in attaining that possibility, we kind of lose focus or we ignore that what exactly is in our hands? Maybe, you know, we can control our thoughts. Maybe we can. We can be aware of how we are reacting right now, or how maybe if we flip this or we look at this from a different, very different perspective, what kind of doors it can open of possibilities.

00:23:01 Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:23:02 Sarah Collins: I think the biggest door of possibility is getting to a joyful life because you can notice those things that maybe would have made you angry before. And now there's a sense of calm. Um, and I think that's what a lot of people maybe don't have in their internal state is a sense of calm. Unless they're doing X, Y, Z, they're out in nature, they're meditating. But. You can get to a point that life becomes a meditation. Uh, and I'm not saying that I don't. I mean, I have young kids. I'm not saying I don't kind of get mad at them sometimes, but like the time it takes me to realize like, oh, I could do this kind of a different way. And I don't mean to follow that thought pattern of kind of anger or frustration overwhelm. Those things still come up, but it's not a loop in the mind. Um, that kind of just builds like, yeah, if you're frustrated about something, it's all these things come in and say, it shouldn't have happened this way. This person shouldn't have done this. Um, and it's yeah, just taking action in the moment. Um, and just being aware of or starting to become aware of those thought patterns and maybe realizing maybe I don't need to follow this. Um, and I just want to reiterate that, like kind of getting into those negative thought patterns. There's nothing wrong with it. Like there's never anything wrong with it. Um, because if you say that there's something wrong with it, then you're again fighting with reality, um, and adding negative thoughts to what already is.

00:25:23 Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely.

00:25:24 Sana: And I think a lot of people listening, they are going to Feel this one quietly, because.

00:25:31 Speaker 3: The.

00:25:32 Sana: Truth is that even the present moment isn't somewhere. Uh, we we go. I mean, it's already here, but we are the ones who keep leaving and and the practice is not about reaching it, but about returning again and again, but gently. And, uh, Sarah, um, it took years for you. And I'm very sure that, uh, you know, there are moments or there are days where the old patterns would probably come back, you know, because life is not going to be always the same. Um, changes are inevitable sometimes, uh, we, you know, sometimes it's, it completely, it completely, uh, you know, uh, it completely leaves, you know, it completely goes out of our expectation. Uh, we cannot even foresee that. So how do you sustain yourself through the long, um, quieter part of this journey? You know, the part where progress isn't visible.

00:26:39 Sarah Collins: I think it just comes back to accepting life, accepting myself really, and being that I don't know, that unconditional love for myself, but probably all of us have lacked in our life. Like it's always coming back to yourself. Um, and kind of giving yourself the internal hug. Like, yes, I'm having an extremely hard time right now. Um, and that's okay. And maybe even that aspect of it doesn't come right away. Um, but just know that like this life is to be Experienced, um, enjoy the little aspects of life and. Know that it'll bring you somewhere. Yeah.

00:27:41 Speaker 3: I think that's a very honest, uh, I mean.

00:27:47 Sana: Certainly it reframes something for me because, we often say that, uh, healing has, uh, a finish line or an expiry date that, you know, there's a version of us somewhere up ahead. Finally, everything is now fixed, but, it's not about that. You know, I have already arrived at a permanently peaceful self, but it's just that now I'm meeting myself in a kindly in a kinder and more compassionate way, in whatever version of of me which is here today.

00:28:23 Sarah Collins: Yeah. one hundred percent. And yeah, stripping away those conditioned ideas kind of about yourself and things that happened when you were younger. Um, they're not, I guess physically or any type of threat now in most cases, but they're a threat in your internal mind. Um, and just kind of releasing those and realizing kind of what it's holding you onto or holding you in the past.

00:29:07 Speaker 3: Absolutely. And Sarah.

00:29:10 Sana: Before we close, I want to make sure everyone listening knows where to find you and how, uh, they can keep walking alongside your work. So where should people go from here? Yeah.

00:29:25 Sarah Collins: Thank you. Um, my website is living fully with Sarah dot com and I'm on Instagram living fully period with Sarah.

00:29:38 Sana: Amazing. So listeners, I'm going to drop all the links and details in the show notes so you can check out living fully with Sarah, her coaching and you can connect with her and Sarah. I really, really, I, it's, it's really inspiring because you brought up a softness, honesty, uh, a bit of vulnerability, but at the same time, a different kind of, you know, courage and strength, which I believe, uh, we definitely need to revisit and redefine. Uh, so I, I really appreciate you sharing your journey, your experiences and your, your insights with us.

00:30:24 Sarah Collins: Oh. Thank you. This was such a good conversation. I truly enjoyed it also.

00:30:30 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, and thank you to all.

00:30:33 Sana: The listeners for being here, for showing up, for being present. And, um, what I would, I would love you to sit with after this episode is not as, as a task, not as a practice to perform. It's just a small noticing somewhere in your day to day pause just for a breath and just ask yourself that, am I here right now? Or am I in a thought about here? You don't have to do anything with the answer. Just notice. And that noticing. It's the whole beginning of living fully. So this was the mindful living. I am Sana and I'll catch you in the next episode. Thank you so much.