E08 - losing and regaining a passion for building

[00:00:00] everybody welcome back to another episode of the mindful builder. As always, I'm joined by my co host Matthew. How are you, buddy?

Good buddy, how are you

Very well. Very well. Today we are joined by a very good friend of ours, , Mr. Brad from Sanford build. Co. How are you, Brad?

Oh, I'm not too bad Hamish. Not too bad. Good to be here.

see you sitting there nice and relaxed. You're nice and relaxed there in your, uh, in your element, having a VB. I love it.

FYI, it's only 1. 15pm.

Ten before eleven or eleven before one, mate.

That's the old brickies motto when they start whacking up some bricks, isn't it?

Something like that.

for everybody out there listening. He's had Brad on their building site before. I can say that he does not drink on his building sites. It is just a nice, relaxed environment here.

you don't know of.

Nah. Nice early knock off to come and have a yarn to you boys. So I thought I might as well enjoy a frothy while we're at it.

Awesome, mate. Thank you so much for coming on.

So what's been happening with you recently Brad? What's happening in the building industry? What are you building?

I am building a hempcrete house. Very close to being finished, finally. It's dragged out a little bit. [00:02:00] Been a few challenges, but we're right at the nitty gritty end. Probably got four or five weeks to go. So I'll be glad to knock that one over and then, um, yeah, just in the process of hopefully signing up the next one.

So pretty excited about, about that one. Another one on a big acreage property and lots of cool things in the build, which is what I enjoy.

You love your details, eh?

do, yeah, it keeps me engaged in the project. It

makes me want to, keep rocking up to work every day.

When did you start that Hemcrete house?

Late Jan last year. So we're running,

what's that now? Like 14 months, which is a bit disappointing. I was really hoping to smack it out a lot quicker, but when you're doing things you've not done before and. Whatever these things happen, we had a big delay in the middle of the job cause the hempcrete didn't cure or didn't cure as quickly as it, as it should have, um, we probably lost, three and a bit months in the, in the middle of the build, waiting for the hempcrete to cure so we could crack on.

do you wanna give us a bit of a rundown on what Hemcrete is, just for anyone that doesn't know?

It's a hemp plant. And then they basically shred the stalk put it in a bucket, mix it with some lime and some sand and some water and piff it in the walls.

This isn't the shit sprinkles, is it?

This is not the shit sprinkles.

I just add a little bit to what hempcrete is? it's actually the herd of the hemp. So It's like that central stalk that's cut up into small bits. And Brad's right. It gets put in a big mixer mixed with some lime, a lime binder. I actually don't think they use, sorry to correct you Rabbit, I don't think they use any sand

it

It depends on the binder that you use. Some binder requires the, silica in the sand.

So is, is hemp, cannabis? Is hemp, is that what it is? is, hemp cannabis?

Look, I don't know if we should get into the details of what it is, but it has no THC, so you, can't smoke it. Like, you can't just be swanning down your hallway, rip a bit off And put it in your bong but I'm pretty sure yours is the same as mine, Brad?

it was in situ hemp. So you've got formwork on one side around [00:04:00] a structural frame, then formwork in the other, and it's just lightly tamped in place and typically has a lime render at the very minute on the outside, sometimes on the inside too. But yeah, I think it's a pretty cool building material, which we're going to see a lot more as we move forward into more of a healthy, healthier buildings.

Thanks.

Before we just go too far though, on this whole hemp crate house, and I want to sort of loop back to probably a few months ago, you lost your passion for building Brad and you were done. Tell us about it.

yeah, I've had a bit of a mental battle with whether what I'm doing is worth it, you know, Just had a few challenges to try and overcome and like a big part of it has probably been. few of the challenges on this hempcrete, hempcrete project. You know, I've always struggled to try and build a good team of people around me, especially in terms of like carpentry and, and that sort of stuff.

you know, as you guys know, I like wear my heart on my sleeve. I'm very passionate about, I do. And as a result of that, the hard times I take, really personally. And I just sort of got to the point, you know, even currently now my family's actually away on a holiday that I was supposed to be on and, um, had to pull the pin on it and send them away on their own.

You know, and all that sort of stuff, slowly mounts up and you sort of think,

Is it really worthwhile being self employed? You know, my wife's away with all of her family who all just have, nine to five jobs, but they're actually all school teachers. So every school holidays they can nick off and, do whatever they like and switch off.

And, you know, as much as I sort of try and be able to have that freedom working for myself, sometimes it's not the way the cookie crumbles. The Hemp Creek build, we actually

had a big drama With the engineering and that's given us, another huge delay. Um,

important

issue we should touch on.

we can go down that road, but basically the house was under engineered for the weight of

the hemp, especially the wet weight of the hemp. You know, it's the product mixed with water and [00:06:00] installed and it weighs, roughly double. in its wet weight as what it weighs Once it's cured.

And unfortunately, that wasn't calculated and allowed for. So we actually had a fair bit of deflection in the bearers, which is obviously then, caused a lot of issues every, everywhere else. Yeah, and unfortunately the engineer has since shut down his business and legged it. So sort of no recourse or no easy recourse for the client. You know, just a really shit ass situation. Honestly, like a terrible way to have to have to finish a build.

It's obviously a really shitty thing to have gone through. And obviously Maddie and I know it pretty well, because we've had some pretty extensive conversations with you about this,

what I'd like for you to share, or I guess what I'd like our listeners to know, like, particularly if we've got builders listening to this podcast is, unfortunately, sometimes this shit just happens. No matter how good your pre construction process is, sometimes you get curveballs like this and it's completely out of your control. I mean, who were you to know to like question the engineer's calculations? I mean, you get these trained professionals into

Do their specified, item within the project and you just have an expectation that it's all been sorted through.

So you wouldn't even think that this kind of stuff would happen. But the reality is the construction industry, this is not the first time I've heard stuff like this happen. Would you give some advice around how you would go about trying to prevent something like this from happening again?

Look, it's always been a challenge for me dealing with engineers, you know, even before I became a builder, as a carpenter, I was predominantly a framer through my carpentry career before I got my license. So, you know, you're because you're the one slapping it together, um, and always found engineers quite difficult to get along with.

So, , you're the one slapping it together, um, and always found engineers quite difficult to get along with. A lot of things that they sometimes do don't make sense or [00:08:00] whatever. This particular engineer, there was definitely a lot of red flags through, the design phase.

There was basically zero kickback from him on anything. Zero input. And they're all things now for me, knowing what I know now that would be huge red flags. If we were going through this process again, I'd sort of be questioning why don't you have an opinion or some input and it was like, obviously, like this build, like, we're really trying to push a lot of boundaries, basically build it thermal bridge free, you know, really reduce the amount of material that we're putting in a lot of stuff like that.

And he just was sort of like, yeah, whatever, and then, um, you know, we got a second engineer involved once we had sort of worked it all out. And then after speaking to

that engineer, it was like a

facepalm moment. I was like, Oh, These are the sorts of people that we should be working with. And now after having a little bit more experience

myself, over the last, you know, three or four years building it's a lot easier now to identify people that are taking their own job seriously and would be better to work with. And I think that's probably, A real big way to avoid that sort of stuff. And then you know, now understanding carry forward insurance for engineers. A lot of engineers in the residential sector don't have to have that. So once they've done the drawings and signed it off, if they shut their business down,

Where is

you're on your own lot, you know, if clients engage that consultant that's it too bad.

So sad.

So that moment that you find the problem out, and there's that probably, you're feeling like, oh what the fuck am I

going to do? I've got to talk to the client about this. What's going through your head? Because obviously when I've been in a

similar situation, you have your palms get sweaty.

You're anxious. It's like, how are they going to take it? Like, am I at fault? Is it my fault? How are you feeling in that moment? And when you actually broke the news and how did you go about breaking that news to the client?

Well the client lives on site, so you know, he's sort of around a fair bit, [00:10:00] and he also knows my personality, like the back of his hand now I'm assuming. So I'm pretty sure he's well aware that something's going wrong just by the way I'm acting. He wouldn't even have to be in the same room.

If he saw me across the field, he'd know. Fuck. Something's wrong. He would just know by the look on my face. And so obviously there was a couple of like little things that, sort of started to raise their head. nothing outside the realms of, discrepancies in a normal build.

And then actually had the floor sander there to do the pre sand, like we sort of get the timber floor all pre done anywhere that there's like joinery, skirting, that sort of stuff to make his life a little easier. And we started to pick up a little more. And then once that happened, I just like, that was it, panic stations.

I was like, fuck, what have I done? Obviously like stress to the eyeballs, like, day in, day out at work, like I'm trying to do the absolute best. possible job that I can do. So yeah, highly stressed. I'm really thankful that, that Jace, my floor sander was the one that was there. Cause you know, we've built a really strong relationship and friendship over the years that we've been working together and he could say that I was absolutely beside myself. So I actually just made the call to go home. I was like, I can't be here and function properly now. so I went home and I came back the next day, think I had a chat to you, Matt you know, reached out to a couple of other people, what do I do? Went back the next day with a plan of attack and then sort of assessed everything so that when I, bridge that conversation with the client, like I was armed with all the information that I could possibly have.

So that made it a little bit easier. To have that conversation with the client and, nature of the build, we've had a few conversations, through the course of the build where I've had to drop a bomb on him and be like, Hey, this is no good, or this doesn't work or whatever.

So he knows now, like, I'm just going to rip the bandaid off and just let you have it straight. You know, and then, yeah, from there it was, yeah, a couple of weeks of backwards and forwards working out, you know, what the process is I engaged a lawyer to get some [00:12:00] advice on like my position and, and where we all stood and whatever else.

And thankfully we've

got you know, a good line of communication between myself and the client and we sort of just worked through it

that way.

And in that same week, you had your Instagram hacked as well.

Oh yeah, It was like in the

space of like three days or something. I can't remember what the other thing was, but there was like three shit ass things. But yeah, basically had my personal email hacked and lost all my social media at the exact same time that, yeah, we, we worked out that the floor was fucked.

do you think you dealt with it? Would you have done anything differently or you think you handled it quite well? What did you learn?

Oh, like obviously I learned a hell of a lot. I don't think I would have done anything differently. Like in hindsight, like I wouldn't have had a stupid password for all my things and

enabled my email to get hacked so easily.

Brad1234.

Yeah, like, obviously I would change that, but like, I think the way that I dealt with everything was, to the absolute best of my ability. I'm the first to put my hand up and say that, like, I'm incredibly thankful for, guys like you, Matt and Hamish and Jack from Nook and, and Al you know, this close network of, Builders and incredibly good mates that I've got to be able to lean on. I'm the opposite to you, Matt. I'm real good at swinging a hammer and I'm in shit house at business. So, it's nice to be able to reach out to people and, get that advice. And I'm super, I honestly couldn't be more thankful that I've got that network.

Had I not had that network, I've got no idea how I would have, Even begun to understand what the hell to do.

there's two key takeaways for me from that story, Brad. One of them is clear communication because it could have gone the complete opposite way. If you hadn't have been really open with the client about what was, actually going on.

And the other takeaway for me is the [00:14:00] people that, you surround yourself with. I know you and I spent a lot of time on the phone together. I know you and Matt spent a lot of time on the phone together and, every single, not just me, not just Matt, but all these other people within your network all had little bits of, pieces of advice and offer to some support for you to be able to then go back to the client with the best possible solution And then work out an outcome. And I think that's a really great lesson for everyone who's running a business that one, you're not in it alone. And two, communication is the key.

that is something that I look back in the last five years of my building journey. And when I first got my builder's license. It was like, fuck everyone else. You're the competitor. it's me versus everyone. It's me versus the world where I now look at the situation I'm in now and having a network around you is so important, but two of the projects I've got going on or one I've got going on and one I'm about to start, you pass me on that contact Hamish.

that network. Is so important

and the mindset change that I've had from where I am now to where I was, say five, six years ago,

has completely flipped on my head. I even look back at other older builders that I know and their mindset is still that, that way. And you can visibly see that they're struggling.

And all I need to do is reach out to other builders and ask for help. Like the information there. And it's one of the biggest suggestions that I give to any fresh new builder or anyone starting their own business from a carpenter coming out of their apprenticeship is Develop yourself a network, get a group of people that you know, in the same situation, find yourself a mentor that might be building that's a little bit more experienced and just sponge off them. And that's something I think we just need to, we need to think through, but Brad, how, how did you develop your network? Like, because it's been such a big part of your sort of recent journey. How did you get your network going? how did you start speaking to Jack, myself, Hamish, Alistair, all these people

Oh, really just like, like Instagram initially. just started sharing my work and then,

you know, following other people that, [00:16:00] you know, had a passion about what they were doing. And, I guess it's a little bit like Tinder, isn't it? you know, you're like sliding someone's DMS, like, Hey, I like that,, you know, you realize you know, the people that you click with we had, like, Dwayne Pearce set up, or you know, initiated like a builder's breakfast. And I think that was the first time that, that maybe me and you, Haym, and Jack all met

in the flesh. I had met Alistair before

actually, he gave me a bit of advice at the VBA office when I was actually in there sitting my exam for my builder's license, just randomly started having a yak to me in the reception. So I had already met him before. But yeah, I guess like. At that initial builder's breakfast, I guess the four of us just really clicked obviously an amazing tool for, being able to network. You know, so just giving you access to be able to see and understand other people that share the same passions as you do. not trying to work

someone out, you know, like, Oh yeah, they stand for the same things as me.

So, I want to look back to something you, I've got this written down on my notes right here, and it's something that we spoke about at the start, and you made one comment, and it's been playing in my head for the last few minutes. You said you struggled to build a good team.

I just want to unpack that a little bit more. I think it's really important that. We hit this topic because it is something that's hard and I know You care you really really care and one of the questions I've had to ask you coming up is like why you care so much Do you think that is something that?

prevents you from having A good team or finding a good team because people just don't care as much about building as you do

I think my biggest struggle in building a team as in a team, that's like directly employed by me. So carpenters, I think my biggest struggle is that when I started carpentry. I saw this huge opportunity in front of me and I grabbed [00:18:00] it, wholeheartedly and, and really immerse myself in it. And I always carry the assumption that other people are going to see the same opportunity that I saw.

Whereas, not everyone does, and I probably need to be better at finding the right people as opposed to finding any person and trying to convince them that this is. their path and that they should be as passionate as me, you know, I've come to the realization now that you can't

teach the passion.

You've got to find it in someone else and, facilitate their own growth. It doesn't matter how much effort you put into someone. If they don't have that passion, your energy is wasted.

And where does your passion come from

I don't know. I've honestly always just been, all the jobs that I've had, like I worked retail you know, was super passionate about that.

I actually, with another mate of mine, we thought, as youngsters, like, let's set up our own. Our own business and we'll, we'll do all these awesome, group tours to the snow and surfing and, and all that sort of stuff. And, that idea sort of fizzled out because we had no money and couldn't really do anything because we worked retail.

and then I went overseas and I worked as a greenkeeper at a golf course. Absolutely loved it. you know, I've just always been that sort of person that if I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it properly. It's just my personality. I probably would've been

just as passionate about another career path if that's

what I, ended up staying in.

Do you think that there's been a change in work ethic over the last 15 to 20 years? I mean, you've been in. the industry for around about that time, haven't you, Brad?

Yeah, I reckon there's definitely been a change in work ethic and culture. I don't think all of that's a bad thing, you know, like I did my time and even my attitude's

changed, you know Like, I used to wear a huge badge of honor of how hard I worked and how fucked I felt at the end of the day and,

All the risky things that

we did on site, to get things

done. and I was a real, Ultra proud blue collar, [00:20:00] yeah, type of thing. And you know, now I look back at a lot of the shit that I did, and I think you're a fucking idiot. Like, why did you do that? You know, Risking my life to build someone else's house.

Do you want to give us an example? CC

very, very early on, To attach some fascia onto a building, my boss's cousin held me, because I'm small, held me by my tool belt.

I stood on the top plate and he hung me out over the edge of the building while I attached the fascia. I could go on for ages. We did the sketchiest shit. Like, full blown.

WorkSafe.

Oh, and at the time I was like, Oh, how loose is this This is a laugh. Like, I honestly did, I didn't give a shit.

if this isn't part of, if this isn't part of the little grads we've run on social media, then I don't know, what is man. Like, look, I think the change in industry around safety is a real, positive thing. I know that I've, I've come from like that

kind of yelling the way of communication back in the day, like when I first started out, and I definitely think that that having changed is a really positive thing.

I don't know,

if this is controversial or not. I Do want people,

most of the time just come to work and show some energy around the building site. I think that's really important, particularly from an employer, employee's point of view.

Do you

think we've lost that some stories about

some dodgy shit back in the, day too.

Yeah,

I reckon that passion, like, I just, I find that, I think my generation, our generation, a very different mindset to working hard and what we Considered working hard. It was a how high you want me to jump like you do

whatever now and not saying that this is that way of approaching.

It was great, but I feel like we had a life where there was no mobile phones. So we not being on a phone inside where something that was fine. These these days kids. Fuck me. They're on Instagram, whatever grind. I don't know all at the same time. Also [00:22:00] trying to work. just, I feel the work ethic is completely different to what it is,

so many positive movements in, people, you know, striving for like better working conditions. And, you know, like

we had no regular day, like, you know, obviously doing my apprenticeship, I was still living at home. My mum be like, what time are you going to be home?

Fuck if I know when we're finished I don't know. Because we would do some days, like long, long, long days, and then we would do a day

that was short, you know, it rained, or we were finished for the day, whatever, and, don't know how many hours a week I used to do, I just got paid for the four days, your four eight hour days or whatever, my boss refused to work Friday, so I only did a four day week.

And there's so many people that have been taken advantage of, doing apprenticeships and, and that sort of stuff, where they're overworked, treated like shit, so it's awesome that there's been some kickback from that and conditions have improved.

I just think it's skewed a little bit too far the other way where now it's like, oh, we

shouldn't really have to focus on that.

For the most part obviously there's some good workers, but for the most part, it's like, oh, we want to do the absolute bare minimum and get really well looked after. And it's not a, it's not always a win win situation anymore.

Yeah. and

it has to be win win, has to be win win, has to be win win.

so Brad, I told you I was going to ask this question. Why do you

care so much?

it's just always been ingrained in my

personality. like say I've had a bit of work done to my car recently. and the people that

have done some work on it probably shouldn't be working on cars or advice. But I went to them because they've got a shop front and, they're set up like a professional or whatever and, so I hand over my hard earned money and hope to get something good in return and I didn't and I think that's a joke.

You know, Like if you're not taking what you do seriously, you just shouldn't be doing it, you know, and I think the construction [00:24:00] industry is probably one of the most guilty industries in terms of how many people are in the game, just to make a quick buck and couldn't care less, you know, who they impact, along the way.

And um, I know like when me and Hamish first started becoming like really good mates, I was still doing a lot of developer work and regularly having a rant on Instagram about how shit things were or whatever. And you know, Hamish was like, Hey, maybe instead of whinging, you know, why don't you try and encourage people to be better?

And obviously at that point, I still cared just as much as I care now. I just put my energy into it a different, a different way now. I

If you could change one thing to make people care, what would you do?

honestly don't know what you can do to make, to make people care. I, like me personally, I would really like to see, good trades

be really valued in society. People really value that, that skill set. for a lot of people, the mentality that, traders are Too stupid to go to uni.

Obviously, you know, like the three of us, we all went to uni, and have ended doing well in the trades or whatever. But like, we're an anomaly. Like most people fall into a trade because you've been told at school, You're too stupid to do anything else. My wife came home upset a few months ago because, a friend of hers had said, Oh, I couldn't think of anything worse than my son growing up to bear, bear trading.

that mentality is still sort of floating around a little bit. And I think if trades were more respected as a whole, They would respect themselves more, and then probably put a little bit more in. But when you keep telling someone that you're just doing this because you're stupid, how can you really expect them to put 110 percent in?

You can't.

Mate, I could not have said it

better myself.

I don't know why tradies are considered to be dumb people. I don't know why that has ever been a thing and where that ever come from. [00:26:00] Cause if you, if you think if, yeah, it's just a different type of smartness.

Does they, like tradies typically aren't academic, like that's okay, but they're fucking good at other things. Like problem solving, they're exceptional. They're, they're people who are genuinely people pleasers and just want to do the right thing by everyone else and they're honest and transparent. Yeah.

Yeah, there are some people that are not, but that's like any other industry or any other job or any other walk of life. So

I think one of the things, one of the things that I think Dwayne Pierce is doing, really good thing for the industry is actually really changing that narrative around just tradies and really trying to sell that narrative that we're actually professionals because it's true.

We are professionals at building. I don't

totally. All right. So Brad, tell us about shit sprinkles. I

So obviously, the Hemp Creek build, they're pushing a lot of boundaries, not just in terms of the build, but you know, they're about as hippie as hippie can get. They don't drive cars, they just ride their bikes. The house is a co living house, so it'll be a shared space with other people.

They're very mindful of their carbon footprint and, their impact and how they use resources and

all that sort of stuff. And a big thing that they're doing is, is composting toilets, which is a recycled, uh, plaster as bucket that they snap it off in. With that, you also need to put some organic matter on top.

And so the question has been asked a couple of times as we, as we've been milling timber and, and that sort of stuff, Hey can we collect the sawdust or the wood chips or whatever, and, and uses organic matter so yeah, we've, we've coined the phrase shit sprinkles actually Mark from NVH has been very generous and he's donated a few big, bagfuls of shit sprinkles.

so hopefully the clients have got, plenty to keep them going for a [00:28:00] while now.

don't know what to say.

You've worded

it so well, like you've been so politically correct on the way that you just worded that.

I'm going to change. I'm going to change topic for a little bit, but hey, Brad, a couple of years ago, you had a pretty bad accident. And you're off the tools for a while. And I know like someone who, , really identifies as themselves as a, real hands on carpenter all of a sudden that was pretty much taken away from you.

How did you deal with, That particular time in your life, because I do know that you and I spent a lot of time on the phone, working through that time, and I know it was really hard

for you

it was incredibly difficult, I guess the saving grace was that I had struggled with anxiety, the years leading up to having an accident and had, sought out professional help and, you know, whatever for that and being geared with, I guess that knowledge around, you know, anxiety and depression and, having already been through a couple of things.

You know, I sort of think I was in a good sort of position to manage that as best as I could. I definitely took it really hard because, that is my identity. sort of staring down the

barrel of, you, know, you might not ever work on, the tools again. Was pretty, pretty bloody hard.

I sort of just really had to like divert my attention a bit.

It sort of worked out good and bad that. I had a

baby on the way when I had the accident. So that's obviously like a really good, distraction. Like once he came along, I don't know, maybe six or seven months post accident. I was doing rehab for about 12, 12 odd months. I broke both wrists and having a child to sort of, take a bit of the attention away from, you know, what I was battling myself was probably a good distraction. I think that helped a lot. But honestly, like a lot of things like that, I sometimes look back and I go, I honestly fucking have no idea how I managed to it. Get through it. I think like just like the support of the people around me and, a willingness to soldier on [00:30:00] and take each day as it comes.

obviously not everyone can just go and have a baby after having a severe accident like that as a distraction, but you, you did touch on going and seeing, Someone for help prior to that. Do you mind talking about that at all, Brad? I know, like I say, a psychologist every three weeks and it's a big part of how I deal with my own anxiety.

Is that something that you've, done a lot of in the past?

went through like a good period where, was seeing someone regularly, like weekly for a bit, probably, probably a good, good six months maybe longer. I never had, like, bad anxiety until I, sort of crept on in being self employed.

Like, initially self employed, I didn't have that bad of anxiety. I realise now I did have some anxiety, but I just thought it was having a bad temper. And I always thought that it was justified because people are dickheads. You know, I never looked at it. Yeah, maybe I could manage these situations better and not have to blow up and not break things.

And then, yeah, after I bought my first house on my own, it was such a huge accomplishment, and I actually just still felt like it wasn't really what I wanted to do. I just was like, ticking that box and I thought it would make me feel fulfilled and it didn't.

And then, you know, I sort of hit panic stations around paying for stuff , and whatever else. And I actually worked 72 days straight from the day that my house settled. And absolutely fucking cooked myself, no surprise. And in that period split up with my girlfriend, who's now my wife. we had a bit of a separation , and then sort of started talking again and, and she's very, very bluntly said, Hey, you need to fucking sort this out. Yeah. So I went to see someone. It's honestly the absolute best thing.

that I've done, being able to understand myself so much better, understand other people, , and potentially what's going on with them has been huge.

My wife actually came to the first good few sessions with me. So she gained a really good insight [00:32:00] into,

What was going on with me.

And I guess that's probably made it a lot easier for her to be super supportive and understanding. Yeah, so that's been a really big thing and, and all the things that I sort of learned through that process has been the things now that I sort of still, lean back on every time that I, every time that I have a challenge,

Do you think that experience makes you better a better person for who you are today and now having a kid do you think that's something that Easier learning from that that you sort of look to instill in your children

Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Like I could go on for ages about, all the little things that I've learned, but I didn't know different personality types. I didn't know different ways that people communicate. I didn't know how to read body language.

I fucking knew nothing. I was so stupid, about something that's so integral, and then through all of the exercises that I did. counseling or whatever, even if I didn't have anxiety, just learning like people's social cues and facial expressions and body language and that sort of stuff is fucking huge.

Cause now I can look at someone that might be having a shit day on site and I can go, Oh fuck. They're probably not right for whatever reason, and now that , I've, had those experiences and, I'm happy to talk about it, and I openly tell people about it, you know, they're like, oh fuck, I've felt like that before, and then same now having a kid, he's a lot like his mum, you know, she's very introverted and I can see how uncomfortable he gets in, in certain situations because now I can read his body language.

Whereas like before all that, if I had the same kid, I just would have thought the fuck's wrong with you. Like, why don't you want to play with all these kids? Why don't you want to jump in the ball pit? Whereas now I look and I understand, okay, hey, you don't have the same personality that I have and that's sweet, what's going to make you feel comfortable,

Do you.

think it's like a superpower

now? Like you going through that is like this superpower that you have been able to go through it.

A hundred percent. I would, I just have a different [00:34:00] outlook on, on life. Now, you know, and I think there's so many things that are so important in life that we don't get taught, that would have such a huge impact on, yeah, like people's mental health, their relationships, And I'm so fucking grateful to have that knowledge now. And a hundred percent, it makes me, a better friend, a better partner, a better dad. like, I just think it's something that, should be probably spoken about more because it's for me absolute fucking life game changer

I'm sitting here with fucking goosebumps at the moment, Brad, cause I didn't know, any of this stuff about You and I think what's so special about the experience that you've gone through, And going through that therapy. and understanding yourself better and then seeing your child struggle in some areas and knowing now that you have the tools in your tool bag to help your kid navigate situations that, maybe you didn't have the support for when you were growing up. now.

I know in my experience, I had exactly the same thing. I sit on a certain neurodiversity, which doesn't allow me to understand some things and I see This in one of my kids now and knowing what I've gone through recently and understanding myself, it's actually allowed me to show up differently to him and

actually explain to my wife why he is behaving in a certain way.

And it actually allows us to be better parents with him and show him that it's okay to have the feelings that he's feeling, and we can actually help him understand the world a little bit better. So my fucking hats off to you for sharing that. Cause that takes a lot of courage to do that. So thank you for sharing it with us.

I think it's something that you, you should, and I, well, I hope you're proud of. Because I guarantee if we got your wife and we're sitting here chatting to her, I think she'd be super proud of you.

Yeah,

proud of you from where you've come from that separation to now [00:36:00] becoming the biggest rock.

yeah, like honestly, I'm just so glad she could have just said you're a grumpy fucking left You And I'd still probably just be a grumpy fuck. And I'd probably still wear it with a badge of honor. I'd probably be like, yeah, I'm, I'm stressed and angry cause I'm self employed and shit's hard. But now I see that yeah, shit's hard.

There's always going to be shit that's hard, but it doesn't have to be as fucking hard if you don't deal with it like a dickhead,

I think this is the perfect example of turning the poor me situation around on its head and not pointing the fingers at everyone else but sort of looking within and then dealing with it. Like I actually can't think of a better example of that.

I could go back now and I could pinpoint so many times where I made a mountain out of a molehill. where I literally could have just, so like one of the

biggest coping mechanisms for me now is flight. I just got to fuck off, So if something's, Getting to a point, and actually I had a conversation with the client of the hemp crate house.

One day he came over to have a chat to me and I was all sorts of fucked up and I just looked him straight in the face. I was like, Not a good time to

talk. I'll come get you

when I'm all sweet. and I got, I just got the fuck

out of there. You know, I could have had the conversation with him right then and there and it would have blown up.

It would have been

fucking dreadful. But I knew that I wasn't in a position to have any sort of conversation with anyone. So I just shut it down, went off, deep breathe, got myself away from the situation, reset my mind, came back. Had a perfectly normal conversation. All good. Moved on. Happy days. I would have. fucking flipped it,

So. advice would you give to 21 year old Brad knowing what you know, now?

I don't know. I always find that you know, like, what advice would you give your younger self? I wouldn't have fucking listened. It's awesome to look back and go, I wish I knew this at that [00:38:00] point, or whatever. But, like, without the experiences that, that you've had, you know what I mean? Like, I had a shit boss at at at one point. Like, he's a

fucking asshole. You know, not passionate about what we did, and it's fucking horrible.

So then when I did my apprenticeship and I worked for someone that was so fucking passionate about what we did, I was like, I fucking love this bloke and he's one of my best mates still to this day. know, I could have said to 20 year old Brad, don't work for people that aren't passionate. I wouldn't have known. How would I have known who's passionate and who's not? I only knew afterwards that I was like, oh fuck. Yeah, that person wasn't passionate about what they were doing,

I think as a leader within a business though, which is what we all are having that past experience.

learnings of what we've had over the years, I think puts us in a really good position to actually understand that 21 year old Brad, who maybe is not showing up the best and, you know, having the ability to maybe try and tap into something

within them.

That's going to make them perform better because you're absolutely right.

I know for sure as shit that 21 year old Hamish would not listen to 41 year old Hamish. That is for sure.

31 year old Hamish probably wouldn't listen to 41 year old Hamish. You give me this advice all the time.

Yeah, and honestly,

like, I, I, go through things regularly that both you guys have said, make sure you do this, here's all the fuck ups that I've had, and I listen to it, and I go, you know what, he's all right, and you know what I do after that? I fucking ignore it, and then it blows up in my face, and I go, I fucking should have listened.

So,

That's my personality. That's what I have to fuck it up. And then I go, ah, yeah, sweet. And then in hindsight, I go, you know what? 36 year old Brad, you really should have listened to fucking,

Ha ha

ha.

You should have listened to your mates who said to you, this was what was going to happen.

I want to do a full 360 though, and at the start we asked you, you went through a pretty tough time and you lost your passion. But it [00:40:00] seems you've regained that and you're a born again builder. what's changed?

There's light at the end of the tunnel. So,

the jobs that we're dragging out it's getting somewhere like I'm looking at stuff now that, I'm proud that we've achieved that definitely helps you know, I've had a really good job lead come in, you know, for a project, thanks to you, Maddie you know, that's got me really

excited I'm thankful that I'm the sort of person that doesn't take much to really light my fire. you know, it'll, it'll spin around quick and I

think it's always going to be a bit of a rollercoaster ride for me in the building game. Like Hamish, you would know at least probably three or four times that I've probably said to you I'm fucking done. I'm packing It in

The hardest thing for me is

like, I love building houses.

I love being on site. I love putting shit together. I just don't love a lot of the other stuff that comes with building, and I also don't love the pressure that I put on myself,

Do you ever stop and celebrate your success? So,

you know, it's something

that I've, I've sort of been,

really looking within recently, that's probably something that I, that I need to do.

So Brad, you're gonna, you're someone we're gonna have back on in the future. Now, I. going to, hold you accountable for a minute. I'm going to put you on the spot. What are you going to do to celebrate your success? and next time when we open our conversation, I'm going to ask you, did you celebrate it?

What are you going to do?

Oh, I, might, I, might buy myself a ludicrous tool. I don't know

When I got

Do you know what? Do you know what though?

whatever you define as celebrating your success. has got to be personal, right? Like if you define your celebrating something as going and buying a tool, fucking happy days, if that's What fills your cup up and makes you feel good inside,

My version of that might be that I'm going to go and buy a nice bottle of whiskey and have a bottle of whiskey.

Like, I think it?

doesn't matter What fuck it is. I think it just stopping for one second and going you know what? I deserve this. And I think that's really important to

stop and

do that.

So what tool? Because I'm [00:42:00] writing this down. It's in my diaries.

I don't know. I've got a lot of tools. Like, I would struggle to think to pick one now, to be honest. I really,

I really garage, you got a big, you got a big garage there that could fit a big American truck in

Brad.

mate, I've heard you've been eyeing off that AEG nail gun though.

You couldn't pay me to have AAG, Matty. I, I would definitely love to have an American truck. I've sort of set myself a goal to have one by the time I'm 40. But probably by the time I'm 40, they won't make them anymore. I'll be some

going to be an electric American truck?

I don't want an electric American truck because I want to be able to drive far, far away from people, but, um, Nah, that or I actually really want to buy an articulated loader now, like a

tractor.

All right, so we've got a few things

Can't wait for you to celebrate that.

success. I can't wait for you to celebrate, cause I'm going to come and play with it. That's awesome.

I'm asking every guest that comes on our podcast what the biggest mistake they've made. What's your biggest mistake?

My biggest mistake is easily over investing time in people.

Do you want to elaborate a little bit more on that?

like I was saying earlier, I've always just, you know, I've got this person. I'm going to put all my energy in all of it, know, and, um, yeah, it's a lot of wasted time and energy, putting it into someone that doesn't want that energy. And this could be work related, personally

related, friendships,

relationships, whatever. But I think that's probably been like one of my biggest hindrances and probably one of the things that's, that's really, held me back is, rather than move

on to

what's better for me, I sort of hold onto things and just keep putting more and more and more and more and

more energy in

until I get to the point where like, I'm so.

burnt out and deflated that, it's a huge setback [00:44:00] for, for me, construction wise, I've made a few, fuck ups,

We all do, dude.

Nothing that's probably, you know, like if you were sitting down looking at like what's affected you the, the most, it would be that

by, by a fucking long shot.

Brad, thank you very much for joining us today.

You're welcome.

I'm a little bit stumped for words at the moment because

we're typically interviewing people for 40 minutes and we're already at an hour and I feel like Hamish and hour, but we want to save some for later, but thank you

very much.

we're

going to

Yeah, I think it's really important that what you've shared today that people can stop and listen and understand it. And not everything is rainbows and unicorns and the way that you put it just simplifies it. And I think you resonate very very well with the general what people refer to as the dumb tradie.

Like I think that you resonate very very well with that person.

And you're changing that image to show that you're professional and showing that you care and you're passionate and

you want better. And I just, if, if I could get in every young carpenter, Sparky first year apprentice,

third year apprentice, I would love them to listen to this podcast and I'd love them to understand your train of thought, because I just wish we had more people like you in this industry.

And I I'm lucky that over the years we've developed a great friendship and it's starting

to grow more. And but I, I'm super proud of you. I know Hamish, you probably are too.

And I think it's something that your whole family and everyone around you is proud of.

And I really do hope that you stop and celebrate that success. And I, I'm going to hold you accountable to that because I'd speak to you pretty much more than my life. And I'm going to hold you accountable that you have that American electric truck in here.

Or whatever. But thank you very much for jumping on today, dude. I, um, you've completely blown me away. I'm literally reading a text message in front of me from Hamish saying, fuck, I love this guy.

It's, uh, I sent it just before.

I'm certainly greatly appreciated. You know, the [00:46:00] friendship and support from you guys is, is unreal. And it's, you know,

It goes both ways, dude. Like, you've offered

us support. Like, you offer us so much support and I think you really need to understand that too. Like, I call you for problems all the time and you solve my problems. Like, you help us too, yeah?

going to go before I start crying.

Yeah, who's cutting onions?