how are you?

I'm great.

We haven't chatted for

about a week and a half.

You've been away

I have been mountain

bike riding, talking

about these kinds of

connections with my

friends and doing things.

doing things for me.

And I will having a bit

of a chat before this

started I really enjoy

with my mates and then

debriefing afterwards.

You know, exactly what sort

of Sven was saying in his

episode is really important

for me and my mental health

and fitness and, you know,

getting away from, I guess

the, my life is certainly

anything but mundane, but

just, I guess the routine

that you kind of find

yourself into, like, is

it, I find that I come

back incredibly motivated,

which I am, so I'm, I'm

pretty pumped between now

and the end of Chrissy.

and you're not the type of

person to take long breaks.

I think you more, what

I know of you take

sort of a lot more

sort of shorter breaks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, Christmas time,

I'll definitely take at

least three weeks off.

But yeah, this was

a short and sharp.

We left Tuesday afternoon.

So managed to get a good

day's working on Tuesday,

drove up to Eden, rode

Eden Wednesday, sat at

our family house Wednesday

night till Saturday.

Saturday night, so I

drove home Sunday and

rode the new trails at

Mogo and at Naruma and

it was just incredible.

So, so good.

that's awesome.

You saw your three

weeks of Christmas this

year shutting down.

I think we're about the

same 20th to the 13th

or something like that.

Yeah.

I'm going to do a little

bit of work on my own home.

We're a bit off

building here.

Uh, we're currently doing

some landscaping and

just got the planning

permit in for the barn.

So just going to give this

a bit of a freshen up and

make it a little bit more

bearable for the next few

years before we build.

But your, you got

your house underway.

That must be exciting.

yeah, it's fun.

we had some glulam

beams go up yesterday.

So we designed all

the steel out with

Yasha from Aurinic.

So we had some, we had

three 400 by 140 mil

glulam beams are about six

and a half meters long.

So we needed two duct lifts

to actually lift them up.

And a trolley to move

them around on site.

We just can't

get a crane in.

That would have been the

ideal situation, but I

didn't want a crane sitting

there all day when you've

got to check around beams

and I've actually realized

how complex my build is

over the last few weeks.

I'm like, Oh, this

is pretty full on.

I was reading

the engineering.

I'm like, have I ever

lost it or is this just

really complicated?

And I called my team.

They're like, Oh, thanks.

You're finally

acknowledging how

difficult it is.

I'm like, okay, cool.

it sounds as if you're like

me with my own projects,

you're kind of like, oh, I

probably won't plan that as

well as my other projects.

Because I know yours

are pretty tight.

Your projects are pretty

tight and mine are.

And I know when we did

our extension, granted

it was during COVID.

I certainly was nowhere

near as, as busy.

Dialed in as my

projects on site.

So I am and I'm not, I

know it back to front.

But what I think you

realize, so when you go

through an estimation part

of the pre con at the end

of, at the start of any

other project, you know,

those plans back to front

and you pick them apart

because you're estimating

you're going through

them, you're costing them.

I think with my house,

I haven't gone through

as much of that process.

I've kind of have an idea.

And I think that's

the, like, I'm, I've

got all the models,

I've got everything.

Probably more working

it out on the fly.

We do have all the

interiors at AlterEco

and design and all

these other things.

But I think I've probably

been a little bit, I

shouldn't say lazy cause

lazy is not the word.

I do understand the build

very, very well in my head.

I just, I'm going into

details as they come.

And just, just probably

like my boys would on site

or my team would on site.

I mean, and that's

probably a really great

segue into today's topic.

And you know, this is

going to be part two

for your rifle range

retrofit project.

Where I know that you spent

an incredible amount of

time in pre construction

and for listeners, you

remember the last episode

we did about this project,

we focused a lot on pre

construction and, today

we thought we'd have a

chat about what it was

like during construction.

So I'm gonna start

this conversation off

and maybe just rehash

and just tell us.

Who were the key people

that were involved

in this project?

And then we might

lead into, you know,

the, the onsite stuff

and your experience

during the build.

Yeah, so the thing Funnily

enough, I was walking the

dog last night with my wife

and we're just actually

staying at Nicole's

parents at the moment's,

why our house gets

painted, because they're

doing a trip down to

Antarctica of all places.

And we're walking past the

rough range and the clients

were sitting in the front

room and waved in and I'm

speaking to them for half

hour last night, like, I'm

just so happy for them and

their lived experience.

So other than ourselves,

there's probably three

real key players in this.

Actually, we'll

go with four.

So, I'm gonna say the

clients are a key player

in this one because they

made a lot of decisions

and sort of went out on

a whim to seek passive

house certification

on this, alright?

So, without them being on

board for this, definitely

this, obviously, we don't

get to where we are now.

So they are a key player

and a stakeholder,

definitely stakeholder,

but a key player, probably

more than most projects

considering we didn't

have an architect or

building designer, we

did rely on them being a

little bit more involved

in traditional sort

of projects probably

not something I would

recommend, to be really

honest with you, whilst

Shane and Sarah are

awesome, I do think

that we still need a

designer or an architect

involved in a project, I

wouldn't, I wouldn't Do

this without one again.

Not saying that we

had a bad experience.

I probably just, you don't

know what you don't know.

Live and learn, don't you?

You live

and learn.

yeah.

we had Erin from

HeyHeyDesign who's been

on the podcast before and

she did all the interiors.

Now, she did all the

interiors and was awesome.

I think maybe, well,

maybe actually maybe

take that comment back.

You can have her involved

as the lead person.

I just think there needs

to be someone that's a lead

other than the builder.

I would say like, I have

the knowledge and To

build it, I just think

we probably there's a

probably we started hitting

a lot of the exterior

stuff at some point as

well which I'll talk

about because we needed

to detail the windows

and I think that's when

the architect that would

have really liked to have

someone on board to help

with those conversations.

So we had the client

as a key player.

We had Erin from HeyHey.

We had our good friend

Cameron Munroe, the

rocket scientist

as our passive house

consultant on the project.

Gee, I spoke to him

a lot without him.

The project doesn't get

to where it is today.

I have an immense

amount of love for that

guy and what he has

done for this project.

I think that any

architect or builder,

anyone listening, that if

you're looking at doing

a high performing home.

It needs to start and

stop with Cameron.

I'm not just saying

that cause he comes

out and helps us out

with his podcast.

In all honesty, like he,

the amount of information

that he was able to

provide us on a retrofit

with retrofits can get

quite dangerous because if

you get it wrong, you're

in a lot of problem.

You're changing the drying

potential of the wall.

We weren't taking out

the bricks or the roof

tiles, which we'll

talk about in a second.

I need someone that

helps and help to help

me and educate me and

know the nerdy science

background of what's

going to happen there.

And so was vital

to the project and

without him mistakes

will have been made.

Okay.

And probably big ones.

It was again, a case

of, I didn't know what I

didn't know with certain

things around moisture

and I'm definitely learn

a lot from him now.

What, can I just

chime in quickly?

So when you talk about

mistakes, are you

talking about you doing

something that might've

changed the physics

of the building, which

could then lead to mold,

condensation, degradation

of building health,

et cetera, et cetera.

Is that what you're

exactly right.

Yeah.

So, and really, really

fine detail points and

all, for example thing

that we did is we actually

used a bitumen paint on

all the bottom plates and

probably the first hundred

mil of the The projects

the bottom plates for the

internal external walls.

Now, the reason for this

is because we had the

cork floor going in, and

I'll talk about this in

the future, and there

was a lot of water in

the cork mix to create

like a mix of concrete.

And Cameron's like,

well, what happens

if the, that sucks?

Moisture into the pine?

I'm like, yeah, I

didn't think of that.

So that's probably a really

good example of the value

that he provided in that.

And that's not even,

we'll get onto the windows

in stuff in a second.

so that's, the reasoning

why he was so vital

in the project.

Okay.

But that's apart from

running all the numbers and

helping us get into Passive

House certification levels.

And it looks like it's

pretty much going to

be, we're going to have

a, hopefully a plaque

by the end of the year.

You might even have one by

the time we're listening

to this, someone's

listening to this podcast,

which means it will be

ticked off certified.

so Cameron, another

vital player.

the other vital players in

this were um, hit the hype.

So Marcus, who was a

certifier in this project.

So we reached out to Liam

and Marcus very early

on, chose them as the

certifier on the project.

No reason why.

But they were awesome.

And Marcus did

They're good dudes.

They're good dude.

That's

why but in, in saying that

you've got Detail Green

who are equally amazing.

And also Scott Stewart up

in Northern New South Wales

is also an absolute weapon.

So yeah, going wrong

I think just because

they're a little bit local

on this project and being

something that hadn't been

done before and turning an

old volume builder house

into a passive house, maybe

it was the security of

them being a little closer.

I'm going to start,

I'm going to digress

just for a second.

I know we've talked about

this before, but you've

obviously got Pam Munro,

who's the passive house

designer and all around

building physics guru.

And then you've engaged

Hip Versaille or Marcus

Strang, um, as a certifier.

Just want to quickly,

quickly touch on the

difference between those

two people, because

some would think they're

doing the same thing.

Okay.

So I'm actually doing my

Passive House Designer

course at the moment.

So I have a pretty

good understanding

of the difference.

Now, the certifier

being Marcus in this

case needs to remain

impartial to the project.

So he's a third person

that he's going to verify

the part, the project,

and he is there to check

over Cameron's numbers.

All right.

So essentially Cameron's

there to check over

me and the way I

install certain things.

So making sure, and we'll

talk about the windows

in huge amount of detail

coming up, Cam would

make sure that my install

detail was correct.

that would match, that

would get the right

value into the PHPP.

And then Marcus would pick

his detailing apart and

be like, you forgot this

number, what about this?

Too many double studs,

now a thermal bridge.

So Marcus would be there.

He's not really there

to offer advice.

That's, I think, from

my understanding, the

certifiers are pointing

you in the right direction.

But I can't import and

change the data and

tell you what to do.

All right.

So they're, that, which

is great because they're

literally making sure we're

doing our project properly.

All right.

think it might've been Luke

Plowman from Detail Green

explained it like this.

You can't set the test

and sit the exam as well.

To a hundred percent.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yeah.

and, also be the examiner.

Yeah.

there's some things we

got pulled up on the

project that we thought

this won't get certified.

All right.

There were two, two

situations that were on,

we had the project on thin

ice and whether it'd be

certified or not due to the

backend PHPP calculations,

which we might even

do a whole episode and

get Cameron on to talk

about the retrofit, the

difference between passive

house, normal and passive

house retrofitting and NFS.

cause there are two

different methods of

seeking certification.

Well, I think it'd also

be great to come on, get

Cam to come on and talk

about the component method

as well, because even I

would love to know more

about that, but totally,

totally digressing.

So, so you've got, so

you've got the clients,

you've got Heihei, you've

got Sam Munro, you've

got Hibbers Height.

Who was the

fifth person?

so the last one I've

actually just sort of like

at the end of the day, my

team or that my, my wider

team, and I probably need

to acknowledge that that

they were working shit

out on the fly a lot.

There's actually, I'm going

to add another one in too.

So there's actually

a few people.

So the team, so my team

directly, so my carpenters.

uh, Kayla who works in

the office with me, but

also just my wider team

of like trainees that

I've worked on multiple

passive houses that are

certified but a retrofit is

a whole different ballgame.

Alright.

You have no idea what

you're going into

to start to achieve.

So, uh, you've got no idea

what's behind those walls.

All right.

And it's not a,

we're not attacking

it from the outside.

We're attacking everything

from the inside.

Essentially, this is just

a an interior fit out.

Think of it this way.

That's the best way

to describe this

project is to think of

an interior fit out.

We didn't touch the

external brickwork

or the roof tiles.

All right.

So my team uh, definitely

some, people in there that

really helped And push that

project along the line.

We definitely had some very

hard conversations around

mechanical ventilation,

we drew working out

because we had issues

with ceiling heights

being we need minimum 2.

4 in certain rooms.

Um, That we were

really tight with

trying to achieve that.

Okay.

So trying to work out

odd ways to get ducks

through and can we have

them from the walls here

and working within the

boundaries that we have.

So that's a very good

example of the wider

team that done that.

But also probably

something that I not

directly related to it.

But also like, we've got a

group of builders that were

in a chat on the side of

just sort of talking about,

a lot of crap sometimes.

But uh, just checking in

on certain things about

what would you do here?

I'm confused here.

Like, I think something,

and I've spoken about

this in the past where my

cousin said, put yourself

and surround yourself

with some builders to

help yourself learn and

create a bit of a network.

And I always thought it

was a load of crap and why

would I share my secrets?

But that group also got me

through some very stressful

times in that build.

There was one point,

which we'll probably talk

about in another episode,

which I pulled my hair

out and probably the most

stress I've ever been

on the building site.

But that group were

there to offer some

very high level advice.

So there's probably

four really big

key stakeholders.

And then there's some

people on the side

that helped me with the

project, not directly,

but indirectly.

So,

All of this, and we talk

about collaboration and,

teamwork and getting

the team together and

all that kind of stuff.

Like we bang on about

that all the time.

I mean, this is just a

classic example of how

that has worked on this

project and, you know,

yes, substitute a couple

of different people in

and out, but It's just

so important to have

everybody on the same page.

I've done a lot of research

because I'm flipping

my Precon method on its

head at the moment, like

completely changing it.

We've been doing it

for nearly 10 years.

I think it can be improved.

We're constantly

looking to improve it.

there's one thing with

Precon, everyone's

starting to get involved

in doing it because

everyone else is doing it.

All right.

yes, you can go do a

day course or you can

learn from other people

around what you're

doing, but there's being

involved in a project and

there's being involved.

They're two

separate things.

So I think when you want

to take on a project

and like with me and

Hamish, and I'll speak

on behalf of you, is that

we're being involved.

We're not, we're just

not being there on the

sidelines being like, Oh

yeah, like, that's cool.

I would just jump in here

and there when it suits us.

Like, no, we want to

be involved to help.

Get this project along.

All right.

I think there's

two different ways.

We need to look at that

pre con process and this

project was definitely,

you needed to be involved

100%.

I mean, I would say

sometimes we're probably

annoyingly involved to

some people just because

we need to understand

how things go together.

Because ultimately

we're the ones

taking the risk on site

when we go to build it.

I want to talk about the

construction for a second.

I mean, let's start

right back there.

At the beginning of it.

So you obviously

didn't demo this and

it's essentially an

internal fit out.

Did you find anything with

the initial demolition

of the project that you

maybe didn't think about

in the pre con process?

And

Well, it was a deceased

estate, so no one lived

there for over a year.

And.

I think when you're

built and you know, you

go into that project for

the first day, it's a

very old house that's got

that real fluffy carpet.

Yeah.

Like it's just like really

musty, Those windows hadn't

been open for a year.

All right.

I think we'd gone in the

project, like obviously

they did the sales.

There's probably a few

people that walked in and

out when they bought it.

And then we went there

to do a measure up

for the, the design.

And that was probably it.

All right.

So going in there, that

house had not been open

for months and it stunk.

It was like we actually

went there in the morning.

We wanted to do just a bit

of a bit of investigation.

We had a blow it all test

to start the project.

We wanted to see what it

was and see if we could

identify any potential

leaks that might be

a problem in getting

airtight because we're

having to work within

with what we have.

All right.

It's not like we can

start putting starter

strips in the project.

Where we're framing in

the corner junctions and

internal junctions, like

we actually literally.

And we're a bit of that

and then we'll get into

the actual, um, Um, Um, Um,

Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um,

Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Yeah,

definitely over a year.

But around the wet

areas and just in some

of the internal hallway

walls, there was just

black mold everywhere

behind the plaster.

Now, visually, you

couldn't see any mold.

You could see a bit of

water staining here and

there being painted over.

That's one of the

biggest myths that we

need to understand.

Just painting over mold

doesn't solve the problem.

So visually, you couldn't

really see it, but there

was a ton of black mold

behind the frames, okay?

So that's something

that we expected, didn't

expect, but the plaster was

going anyway, all right?

So We did that what

we did is we did a

boiler door test.

Now, we couldn't get

the boiler doors to

give us a reading

of the air exchange.

I think from memory

it was sitting around

20, was it 25 or 35?

We calculated roughly the

roughly air exchange of

the existing building.

just for those playing

along at home, you can

do that by measuring

the volume of air

that's actually passing

through the machine, you

know, and you kind of.

Get all nerdy with your

maths and take the volume

and kind of work out, you

know, how much air

is passing through

per minute, et

cetera, et

cetera.

So you can work it out.

the Minneapolis Bloordoor

I think does it for

you on the screen.

It like says, oh, we can't

get a reading but roughly

we think it is this.

I think from memory

one of them does.

So we did that.

Okay, cool.

So this house sucks.

We knew it.

Alright.

I'm going to be open here.

I'm not the greatest

with the recycling.

we tried to, we've

been burnt by in the

past a fair bit but we,

we just did a bit of

investigation into this.

Now we use, where we

send our rubbish to

the people we use, it

actually gets all sorted.

So way of recycling

isn't as pretty as

everyone else on site.

We don't really sort it.

It just gets sorted

post us on site

going to jump to your

defense a little bit,

because we have talked

about this and we're

digressing slightly,

but your building

sites typically aren't

as large as ours.

Like in terms of

space around, yeah,

the homes themselves

are similar, but like

we're, we're fortunate.

A lot of our projects

allow us to have that kind

of, waste management, but

at my house at the

moment, I probably

have a two by one meter

spot to put any form of

rubbish on a project.

That's

it.

And the material gets

stored on the slab.

So that that's to give

you a reference, but we

do know the people that

where we get sent to,

they do separate it and

they do have all the

certificates that, but

what we did find for this

project is a way to yeah.

Recycle plaster.

So we got a company, I

think from memory they

were called Regip and they,

we pretty much got a bid

on site and they just,

we put all the plaster in

that and off it got taken.

So they recycled that.

You could have your

nails in it, could

have glue in it.

It could be painted.

It could be horse hair.

It didn't matter.

As long as it was plaster.

So from my understanding

that all got recycled.

what we did find behind

the walls, surprisingly,

some of the external

walls were insulated.

So, they had that

old yucky glass wall

and it sagged and it

was it was all dirty.

So, whenever, and when

anyone says like a house

needs to breathe, that

was a prime example

of no, a house doesn't

need to breathe.

Because you could see

what the filter was,

was the insulation.

All right, there was

this black and dark

and dark and yuck.

So, that was something

that we come across.

We assumed there'd be

a metal size isolation

of some sort on the

frame, which there was.

And we also came across the

fact that, so, you know,

So, this was built by a

very well known Melbourne

folding builder, and all

of the internal cross

bracing or angle bracing

had been cut or grinded,

like all of it, period.

it actually,

surprisingly, the house

hadn't moved more, to

be honest with you.

So, all the bracing

they put internally had

been cut out by trades.

whether it would be

electricians, probably or

plumbers or HVAC people.

Now, this is why I'm a

big advocate that we need

a pre plaster inspection.

And apparently the

other week at the VBA

conference in Melbourne,

they did talk about

this being introduced.

Which is really good news,

so, because at the end

of the day you get frame

inspection and then no

one sees anything to the

final and building surveyor

walks away and assumes

everything stays the same,

but we, I mean, as what

we need to understand is

it doesn't things might

get in the way sometime,

and that's okay, but,

it's about replacing it.

Yeah.

Here's a, bit of a

hot tip for listeners.

Get onto CR Kennedy and

get yourself one of those

3d scan cameras because,

uh, they're a game changer.

Yeah, they're awesome.

We so we did that and that

was pretty much you've got

that back to the frame.

Now this is our first

point of being under really

understand the building.

All right.

So I spoke about that.

We weren't taking

roof tiles or

brick cladding off.

Now reason for that

is because they are in

perfectly good condition

and whilst we understand

there may be some water

and moisture and issues

that we can run through

any simulation or basic

building of understanding

that water can leak.

We thought that if we need

to prove that health and

comfort of the building

and building things durable

in an internal aspect

meant that need to make a

model that, and everyone's

trying to search for at

the moment, but there are

10 million houses at the

moment don't meet current

Seven star minimum code.

How can we retrofit

these maybe without

taking the claddings off?

All right.

There's no point

removing all the external

brick and roof tiles.

So yes, we

couldn't wrap them.

All right.

We couldn't do an

external membrane.

And that is probably the

number one on any building

that we need to get in.

It's my, the biggest

thing I advocate for.

But in this case, , we

opted not to put one in.

Can I be the devil's

advocate here?

I just want to be

the devil's advocate.

Because I mean, I'm

pretty familiar with this

project because I know

how you, you insulated it.

How do you measure,

justify, reconcile, however

you want to describe it,

that you're minimizing the

wind washing in the wall?

this is one of the

parts where we thought

this project might

fail or fall over from

a passive house part.

in short from my

understanding, I think we

probably do need to get

Cam on to explain this.

Okay.

But we have to achieve

an average U value.

So, hypothetically,

we're putting R three

and a half in the wall.

We've got 2.

5 plus a one.

on the wall and

then a one in your,

um,

the cavity.

So, so for example the

average U value might have

needed to be, I forget

what it was, maybe say 2.

5.

Marcus might have said,

okay, you need to remove

30 percent or 40 percent

due to wind washing

and see if it still

averages out.

All right.

So he would have

punished us for

the wind washing.

you, picked a.

Met some kind of

metric, which reduced

the performance

of that assembly.

Conservatively, I would

Yeah, it's very

conservative.

But at the same time, we

understood that, and we

knew that we were going

to get punished by that.

That's why we chose

polyester insulation,

because it was more dense.

From my memory, it's

32 kilograms a cubic

meter, so it's not going

to be affected as much

as, say, a glass will.

Alright?

And also being

polyester, it handles

Yeah, so it's hydrophobic.

So water can move

through it and drain out

and not soak into it.

All right.

that's why we

decided with that.

It's probably a

good segue into it.

So we, our building method

was because we're going to

have no external membrane.

What we were going to

do is stripped the whole

place out and it absolutely

pissed down for three days.

So we got a really quick

indication on how good

those roof tiles were.

And we didn't find any.

There's not one

drip inside.

we were looking very full

on to see if there's any

issues getting in there.

Now we had discussed

with Cameron about maybe

insulating at the top cord

and wrapping up there.

But then I was like, well,

now we're just pushing

the problem up higher.

We're not allowing any

ventilation to that roof.

And how are we ever going

to know if it does leak?

interrupt, but you

know, another thing that

probably ironically was

in your favor was the

fact that it was a tiled

roof, because a tiled

roof's It's going to have

less condensation on the

back of your roof sheet.

it?

I thought it was

the opposite way.

I thought with.

Well, do you have, did

you have scisolation

on the top of your,

No.

underneath the

I have a feeling that if

you build with the building

code in NCC, you need this

isolation if you've got

roof tiles, but you don't.

If you use metal, because

I think they say it can

travel along the back

end of the corrugations.

I'm talking more, , of

the existing structure.

Because I know my home

here, you know, you look

up and you pop your head

up in the roof, it's just

roof tiles on battens

and you can see daylight.

that air was obviously,

we needed to prove

that we were getting

ventilation through that.

Through that area, and

this is something Cam needs

to explain because it was

way above my knowledge.

Like, there was an

email chain between

Marcus and Cameron and

honestly, it felt like

it was another language.

know, when your roof tiles

overlay, you can kind of

see little bits of light.

So the light means

air is coming through.

So air can obviously

exchange through there,

but also means you can

come back in and it

can start to um, wind

wash the insulation.

But the other thing is

it also allows drying

and other things.

So there was some

positives.

that's what I

was getting to.

That's what I

was getting to.

You're probably beneficial

for you in that sense

that you essentially do

have a roof space because

you've got a foil on the

It's also easier to pop

a roof tile off in the

future and have a look

around and monitor it,

which we have a little bit.

So we're probably going to

drop some sensors in there

and see what's actually

happening in that area.

So, at that point.

We realize your timber

frame now our methods

of construction, what

we were aiming for.

So going into it we

worked with the Bink

uh, UPVC windows.

that Was one of the biggest

challenges on the project

that we knew was going

to be quite confusing

and how we were going

to install the windows.

And what we found out

very, very quickly is from

the laundry to the back

door, which is our need.

10 meters away.

It was 110 mil out of

level on the slant.

The whole building was sort

of like tipped on a slant.

So now the question

is like, how do we

install the windows?

Do we put them in level?

Where do we put

them in level?

what are we

going to do here?

Because now things are

going to look odd.

I know there's a lot

of builders out there

thinking, hang on a

minute, what's going

on with that slab?

And I'm sure that

you would've done

investigations around

whether or not that

slab has failed and

where did you land?

We just think it was

built 110mm out of level.

There's no crack.

There was literally

no crack in the

brickwork whatsoever.

So we think it was actually

built 110mm out of level.

maybe it's built

50 and it's sunk,

it's just sunk 50.

we think there was

definitely built

out of level.

It was really interesting

because now we had the

problem of where do we sit?

We're going to, we

know where we're going

to sit our window in

the insulation layout

because we need to bring

it back into the start,

not on the brickwork

like it originally was.

How are we going

to flash it?

Because typically we want

to drain any moisture

down into our brick cavity

because we've got our

WRB, but we don't have

one anymore because we've

actually ripped out all

the metal sisylation.

Now, the reasoning behind

that is Cameron run a

Wolfie analysis and it's

a hydrothermic analysis

of more water moisture

through the building.

that Wolfie analysis

said that the project was

going to fail and that

we would get mold after

a certain period of time.

If we insulated, and if we

left the size of isolation,

that was with the Intello

remaining in there.

So we ripped out as much

as we possibly could.

Now, there's areas we

definitely couldn't

got to because there

was ply bracing and

things like that.

But we got as much of

that stuff out as we

possibly could, alright?

So that was why we

chose the polyester

insulation because it's

hydrophobic, alright?

Now, what I'm saying

here now, doesn't

mean you can do the

same on your project.

This is really, really

important to say because

every project with this is

really, really different.

And in some situations,

you can't copy it.

Retrofit is not,

it's not, it can't

be produced en masse.

And every building is

different because your

cuttings are different and

your wall build up might

be different and your

studs might be different.

There's so many different

things to factor in.

So this advice here

is, it's not advice.

This is how we did

this project, okay?

if you're taking, notes

of the key plays in the

project, put a big circle

around the one that says

passive house designer.

In this case, Cameron

Munro, because he's

the guy that's going

to get you out of shit.

Yeah, so the installation,

that's why we went to

polyester, the windows now,

the windows, we had to work

out where we're going to

situate them in the wall.

All right.

How are we going to

make it look good?

Where's the water

going to drain?

So we had to come up

with this method and me

and 40 hours on this.

Like it was complicated.

All right.

So all we wanted to do

was get water out onto the

face of that brickwork.

Okay.

So we came up with a system

that I'll probably talk

about maybe on the next

episode when we do this

on how we actually did it.

It was super,

super complicated.

And even to this day we

relied heavily on the

pro climber products to

get us out of trouble,

but we also had to

introduce some different

things that we hadn't

ever worked with before.

All right.

So we run with a polyester

external insulation

with a cavity batten.

We intalloed the

whole project.

So that was our methods

of getting air tightness.

And so one of the first

issues that we had on

the build, we originally

thought double glazing

would be enough with

the component method.

We found out very quickly

that, so the average U

value we needed on the

project was to be under U1.

25.

Okay.

So that meant we

needed to go to triple

glaze big windows.

All right.

And that's

Aluplast profile.

Now to throw a

curveball into the

project, the client

wanted a doggie door.

We can't, couldn't

do a triple glazed

doggie door with them.

So what we actually had

to do is you couldn't

even do a doggie door with

soft E coating for low E.

We actually had to get

a hard low E coating

in one of the room,

in, in the doggie door.

So that was a little

bit complicated and

pushed us to the limit.

So, think from memory,

we're sitting at

average U value of 1.

245 or something.

So like, what, 0.

05 under.

So what actually

become the problem is

every single window

measurement became vital

from the installation.

And every little double

starting that project

needed to be documented

around the window for

thermal bridging, in,

in the calculation of the

window, there's a thing

called an install value.

And that changes depending

on what's happening.

All right.

So we now had to work

out with windows and

window openings that

weren't parallel, that

were out of square,

that were out of level.

we had to try and get

our window, as big as

possible because the frame

to glass ratio needed to

be bigger because it's

better insulation because

the frame itself is not

the greatest insulator.

in this case,

in this case.

Yes, in this case.

in this case, yes.

still in most cases or

in all cases, you, want

less frame, more glass.

Okay, that's the general

rule of thumb from my

understanding.

less structural material.

But more insulation.

Yes.

Yes.

frame, sorry.

sorry.

sorry, In the, profile,

sorry,

Yes.

just, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah,

UG, which is your

glass and then UF,

which is your frame.

So you want a bigger ratio.

just to confirm, Matt's

talking about window

frames and not actual

timber structural frame

of the house, because

it's, the opposite, more

your windows are the

weak point of a building.

Yeah, totally.

So, and we're cutting these

big holes, but because

it's brick, we just can't

make these windows bigger.

We can't come to brick

our lintels, change the

structure load of where

those lintels fall, like

there could be a pier

under there that's taking

that weight, like there's

so many different things.

And there's some real tiny

windows that the frame to

glass ratio is quite small.

So that made it

really difficult.

All right.

so we were pushing

shit uphill.

And at one point

we were failing.

Now, what we did with the

front door, the big door,

we had a timber door.

Now, I think we might've

been the first to do this.

And we come up with the

idea of the way they

build these doors is

like a frame and they

clad it with the timber.

So what we actually did

is we spoke to Stewie

Dawson from Thermalux.

we got some PIR board off

him and we actually got

a 50 mil board because

that was a thickness of

the, cavity in that door

and we insulated that

door, which pushed us

back over the line again.

and helped us get that

project back under that

average U value, which

is something I think

they're actually starting

to do on every door now.

And of course Cameron

Munroe would have run

that through his magical

spell book and told you

whether or not that PIR

board had any risk of

condensation, because

obviously PIR is not, is

vaporized.

he ran all that, did

all these things, but

That was a huge win.

So that was something

that we gained off

the project that we'll

put on every project.

I might as well just keep

talking about windows

while we're on it.

So the windows, what

we ended up doing is

we created this sort

of sill system that

they're up on a back dam.

We insulated with any,

we had some leftover XBS

lying around for some jobs.

So we kind of created this

little XBS window system

that had out, it was our

back dam to get our Y L L.

I think, is it the y

It's like this little

weird symbol install

value of the window down.

So it was better

performing?

Hang on, hang on, hang on.

This is, this

is fucking gold.

You just use a strip

of XPS as your backdam.

Can

Not really.

We actually rebated,

we used the timber

and then rebated some

XPS in like it was

funky.

can we stay on

this for a second?

Because I, I want to

know, does that add to

our install um, you value?

yes it does.

Yes it does.

So the bigger you make

it, the less performing

because again, you're

having more timber, less

insulating material.

So timber, whilst

it's an insulator

compared to say steel

or something like that.

It's still a mini thermal

bridge and we want to,

we do need to get as much

insulation around those

windows as possible.

Now, in Victoria, a

little bit more important.

Maybe you go to Sydney,

it's not as important.

But if you go a colder

climate or specifically

in Europe, you need to

get insulation everywhere.

Most likely, you're

insulating externally.

All right.

I can't wait to do an

Instagram story of me

putting my XSO still over

a strip of XPS and my, my

windows install moving

you've got to be

careful You've got to

make sure that you've

actually capturing.

Everything properly.

So what we actually did

is we actually created

like a little, a model on

site and what we did

is we actually built

that to scale and

sent that to Cameron

and said, model this.

Which is what he did.

All right.

So I think what we

had to forgo on this

project was actually

insulating the bottom.

On the outside around

our taping system.

Again, we couldn't take

the external because

we have nothing to fix

it on to because we're

draining down the cavity.

We actually don't want

to drain onto the cavity

like we usually would, we

want to send it outside.

So we had to use some

different tapes and

use them in a different

way than what we'd

ever used them before.

And that's what

we did with that.

And now I.

I have done on my

own social media,

post on this install.

I wouldn't recommend

copying it.

I would recommend

maybe using as a

basis for discussion.

If you're doing a retrofit

on a brick, I think

it can be improved on.

I don't know how yet, but

it definitely something

that you can work on.

so when we were ordering

these windows though, we

had to literally get them

checked off like 20 times.

So we would send

it to Andre, Andre

would mark it up.

I would mark, make sure

that those measurements

were perfect, that they

fit it again, then Cameron

put the exact measurements

into PHP and be like,

we're still struggling.

Can we get anything wider?

Can we get it higher?

We'd go back, work it out.

So it's not like every

other project, like a new

build where you can order

these windows for the

moment you sort of start,

because we know the size

and what they're going

to be, or an extension.

We literally had

to order them.

When we demolished,

done some stuff inside

and then got, okay,

now we know nothing

changes from this point.

So one thing I did learn

is probably a little bit

more sitting around in

a retrofit, especially

on a brick veneer house,

because the windows do

take 12 weeks to come.

All right.

So you do lose a lot of

lag in that time there.

Lead to another question

I was going to ask too,

is like, did you have a

game plan around this?

And I know in my projects,

like in a new home,

particularly in a SIP

project, Like you can pull

the trigger on ordering

your windows, you know,

the moment you step on

site because you know that

that opening's not going

to change and for the most

part, when you're actually

framing it yourself you

know, you can pretty

much pull the trigger

on the windows as well.

But like, did you actually

have a game plan going into

this or was it sort of a

bit of a moving target?

We had a really good

game plan on what

we were going to do.

We knew that we knew early

because of the modeling

told us that we're going

to have to essentially

get triple glazed.

We were able to put

that into the pricing.

we had a really good idea.

All right.

We knew there was a

number of unknowns.

Probably the biggest one

we had a really good game

plan was air tightness.

Now I'd was always

like, well, how are we

going to insulate in

those external corners?

And those junctions,

because the old

framing method is

stud, block, stud.

How are we going to

get insulation there

to make it continuous?

So one of the things

we'd, I'd worked out in

my brain is if we cut

everything back around

external junctions, 90

mil, and we just inserted

a stud and block into that

method so we can run our

services, but also get

some XPS and cut it nice

and snug into that area.

Now, Cam was a bit

dubious about this.

He thought we would be

able to get XPS in nice

and snug and tight, but My

team are awesome and they

got it in very perfectly

and I sent him a few videos

to say, stick that up

your ass cam as a joke.

So that was one of the

things we thought through.

The other thing I thought

through is on our top

plates, I was like, how are

we going to get airtight?

Because we were all our

L brackets in the way.

So what we did is we

sprayed where every

single L bracket was or

any formal connection.

And we had a color coding

system for what was what,

L brackets that connected

the trusses to the wall

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's a truss

house timber frame.

So it's very typical

construction method.

So we actually took off the

L brackets, sprayed them,

cut about a, I think it

was a 300 mil sheet of ply.

And what we did is we

glued that down to the top

plate and used a roofing

screw to lock it in.

So then we had starter

strips that we could, and

that was our starter strip.

So instead of relying on

these floating bits of uh,

the IntelliConnect, we

actually just were able to

adhere directly to the ply.

Cause we knew the

ply would be airtight

And it's actually something

we've now taken into every

build, whether it's a new

build or renovation or,

because it's so much easier

to get you up to something

tight and something to

stable to because the

issue is when you're

working in those corners.

There's nothing to fix

it and hold it into

if there's no truss

or something there.

So we've found that

it's quicker on the air

tightness aspect and when

you're framing it takes no

time to run around on all

your top plates internally.

Put a bit of glue down

and then rip a strip of

ply and screw it down.

And then you haven't got

anything penetrating your

membrane like L brackets

where you might have nails

or anything like, or screws

or anything like that.

So, we were able to do

that and I'll talk about

air tightness, we'll

definitely turn this into

a two part on the, um,

on site side of things.

So, that's something we

had and actually went from

an air tightness, we got

it down to, I think, 0.

41.

was our final

result for Retrofit.

So, well under the

one ACH for Retrofit.

Um, 2.

6 is for a passive

house standard.

So, that was really cool.

All right.

That was something that we

we're really happy about.

But the one thing that we

had a game plan but didn't

have a game plan, we know

we had a very solid game

plan that we had really

investigated and we knew as

best as we possibly could.

Now, insulating the floor.

All right.

So.

This was the big item

because we had 2.

7 ceilings.

We did not want to

put like a 90 mil

joist 5 bat in there.

Then you put some chipboard

at 20 mil and then you put

another 20 mil flooring

down and all of a sudden

you're losing all this

room, all the old windows,

ceilings and stuff.

You start creating steps

to inside to out and it

was really complicated.

this is when I go back to

the conversation around

the little team that

we have, our builders

chat, I, um, kind of chat

with Dylan On projects.

If you don't know

Dylan, Dylan's the