Brittney Sherman: Hey, Hey,
Sonia Meza-Leon: Scarlett autos.
We are back and I am looking forward to this episode in particular, because
number one, I get to take a little break and sit back and listen to Brittany.
Tell me a story, which is so exciting right now.
And the reason I'm excited about it is because she's, she
is excited about the story.
So, um, without further ado here is Brittany Sherman talking
to me about the black Dahlia.
Brittney Sherman: Well, I told you I was going to throw you a
little bit of surprise and, um,
I guess I'll say without further ado, I am not going to cover
the black doll yet tonight.
What I know, I know.
And this was a last minute decision, like four hours ago.
I decided to change it up and.
Here's why I decided to change it because you believe you did that.
I, I know.
So the black doll yet is a topic that has fascinated me for years when we started
doing this podcast, I, that was one of the first topics I wanted to cover.
And as I really started investigating and learning about the black Dalia, uh,
what I found is that the information out there is pretty straight forward.
Every article I read, every podcast I listened to about it, it all
had the same information and none of it was new information from
what's been around there forever.
And the most interesting information that is out there is
all subjective, conjecture about.
Who could be responsible for those killings.
And there's a lot of really interesting, fascinating narrative conversations
about the occult about devil worship about, uh, really, I don't see,
Sonia Meza-Leon: I don't, I don't know much about the black Dahlia, so I was
so looking forward to you telling me
Brittney Sherman: no, but here's the issue that I have with it.
All of that is just like potentially made up.
Like there's no actual real information.
Like there's, it's not factual.
And there's another reason why I wanted to switch it out because
this isn't factual information.
And a lot of it could be hyperbole.
Maybe it's factual.
If it is, it's like the most unbelievable story in the world.
And it, at some point maybe I will get to it, but there's another reason
I wanted, I decided to change it up because I wasn't super confident because
the stories were just kind of all over.
And there wasn't real hard evidence to support it.
I wanted to talk about a topic that I felt like I knew just about
everything there is to know about it.
Oh.
And I felt like I'm not going to go off book per se, but something that I feel
like I can talk about without needing to, to take notes and read much about it.
So the topic I am actually going to cover tonight is the Crispin
wad, double murder suicide.
What the
Sonia Meza-Leon: fuck is that?
Brittney Sherman: I
Sonia Meza-Leon: can't believe you threw me for a loop.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited because now I really don't have to say anything.
So
Brittney Sherman: I almost, I almost texted you earlier to tell you, I,
I changed my mind, but I thought, no, I want to get your raw reaction.
And I'm so glad you
Sonia Meza-Leon: didn't.
I'm so glad
Brittney Sherman: you didn't.
That's awesome.
Uh, so, okay.
So black Dalia depths, I think, well, black Dahlia side, but that's a topic
I think I'm going to still continue to go to, I'm going to learn more about,
because it is interesting, but because there's so much like, well, maybe it's
this, or maybe it's that, or maybe it's this, or maybe it's that, or who knows.
Maybe it's this completely different thing or until I can feel like I get
like some real narrowing down, this is more of the likely situation.
That's kind of why I wanted to put it off to the side.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Okay.
So we're still going to talk about the black Dahlia in the future, but
Brittney Sherman: not right now.
Exactly, exactly.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Fair enough.
Let's go
Brittney Sherman: roll with it.
All right.
So, um, black delegate aside, uh, we are talking about the.
Double murder, suicide.
Uh, Nancy, Daniel, and Chris Benwah.
That took place between June 22nd and June 24th, 2007.
And based on your response, I think, you know what we're talking about?
Sonia Meza-Leon: I is
Brittney Sherman: this, the wrestling guy is the wrestling guy.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Oh my God.
You totally threw me for a loop.
I don't know anything about this.
So you are going to
Brittney Sherman: have to tell me this.
All right.
Well, feel free to jump in with questions, but, um, so w you know,
I should probably take a deep breath here because we're, we're kind of being
lighthearted and laughing and joking.
Uh, this is, uh, this is an extremely tragic story.
And, uh, this is one that as, as I said, at the top, I know very, very well.
And I feel comfortable with not to say that I know everything about it,
but I want to take you through not just the crimes, but really the key
points and life of Chris and Nancy.
Benwah leading up to the fateful weekend in June of 2007.
So Chris Ben wall is a Canadian, was a Canadian professional wrestler.
Uh, he was considered a, uh, he was, he was a stellar standout,
one of the best in the world.
He was a world champion, professional wrestler, uh, air quotes.
If you want with world champion, uh, he, he wrestled all over
the world from Mexico to Japan.
Canada.
And of course in the United States, he got his start in the eighties in
stampede wrestling, which is known for, uh, wrestling fans out there.
And even those who might not be wrestling fans, uh, it was run
by Stu Hart, the father of Bret, the Hitman Hart and Owen Hart.
And it's where the British bulldogs came from.
And B it was the, uh, the premier wrestling territory in Canada.
And from his roots in Canada, he then went to, uh, wrestle in Mexico
where he teamed with who would become his best friend, Eddie Guerrero.
Uh, Eddie Guerrero was a champion Lucia Liberi wrestler.
Uh, he comes from a long line of, uh, Lucia Libris wrestlers,
the Guerrero family, his.
Uh, nephew Chapo.
And you he's like a couple of years younger than him.
Uh, his, uh, uncle Chapo, Sr.
And, uh, Eddie was also known around the world, but Chris really gained
his biggest popularity when he went to Japan and wrestled as the
Pegasus kid and Japanese wrestling is known for its more realistic style.
It is hard-hitting, uh, they don't pull the punches per se.
The, uh, the hits on the mat are brutal.
The kicks are real.
The holds are meant to hurt that choke holds are meant to choke you out.
Uh, it's called hardstyle and Chris took the.
To heart and, uh, Russell wrestled hard and he largely mimicked his
wrestling style after a, another wrestler who he met and idolized in
Canada, in stampede wrestling, who also went onto the WWF dynamite kid
who was part of the British bulldogs.
And one of dynamite kids, signature moves was a top rope diving head butt
onto a promo opponent laying on the mat.
And that
Sonia Meza-Leon: wasn't that like the Jimmy, the snicker?
No, he did like this flying squirrel kind
Brittney Sherman: of thing.
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure what a flying squirrel is, but he does splash.
Yes.
But so imagine instead of a splash and landing on your belly, you are leading
with your head and you're landing on your.
So he's why who did that?
So that's what Crispin law took up after dynamite kid who learned
that move from Harley race and Harley race was Oop to terrible.
These are all porn.
These sound like all porn, but Harley race was a, he was like
a king of Southern wrestling.
Literally his, he went by a king Harley race.
He, uh, you know, he told after he did it for years, he told
everyone don't ever do it.
It's gonna mess up your head.
Then Tom Billington, the dynamite kid started doing it.
And dynamite told Ben watt don't do this.
Ben watt did it and made it his signature move.
It looks as bad as it sounds if not worse.
Uh, he, his goal was to dive headfirst and tried to connect with the neck
shoulder head area of his pronoun.
So, well, Chris was learning the ropes in Canada and Japan, Nancy Benwah.
His future wife was becoming a staple of Southern wrestling in
the NWA and Florida championship wrestling your territory song now.
Sonia Meza-Leon: I think that the last time I watch wrestling, I
think dusty Rhodes was involved.
Well, this
Brittney Sherman: would have been me.
Rick flares would have been the dusty Rhodes Ric flair time.
And so this is the mid to late eighties.
Nancy is getting involved and she joins a stable.
They're called a group of wrestlers led by Kevin Sullivan and Kevin Sullivan.
Is this a character?
He portrays a character.
Who's a cult leader, devil worshipper and Nancy goes by the name fallen
angel a as one of Kevin's fault.
Well quickly life imitates art and Nancy having fallen in love and get married.
So, uh, now we have Nancy Sullivan and Kevin Sullivan married and they
go in, go from Florida championship wrestling to Georgia wrestling, which
would become the WCW world championship.
In the nineties, Crispin walking back from Japan, and then he signed a long-term
contract with WCW in 1995, as a premier featured wrestler at this time, WCW
was famous for, they had whole Cogan.
They had macho man, Randy Savage soon, the, a NWI was going to be famous.
And you had guys like Crispin woah and Eddie Guerrero that were very small.
They're under six foot they're, uh, they first were considered cruiser weights,
which are guys I don't, I don't know what the standard is, but like under
220 pounds or something like that, small guys, I said a cruiser, like, what is it
referring to a little guy, little guy.
Yeah.
I think it's a backtick I think it's a boxing term also.
I think, I know, I know there's I know there's a UFC division
called cruiserweight also.
Uh, but essentially Eddie and, and Chris were, uh, were premiere cruiser weights.
They knew each other from working with each other previously and they
found a lot of frustration because they routinely would steal the show by
putting on the best performance, but were never considered top caliber guys.
So later in the nineties, Kevin Sullivan became head Booker.
Remember, Kevin is married to Nancy and head Booker means he essentially
decides the creative for the show and decides to write a storyline where
his real life wife Nancy gets into a relationship with Chris and the storyline.
Is that Kevin B.
Living up to his psychotic kind of Satanist type character
is too much for Nancy.
And so she seeks the consultation or support or whatever.
Yeah.
That's what
Sonia Meza-Leon: she's looking for.
His consultation.
I'm sure he has a big consultation.
Hey, quick, wait.
So back up, hold on a
Brittney Sherman: second.
Kevin Sullivan was here, wrestler.
He was a wrestler, but he was also like a behind the scenes guy.
Sonia Meza-Leon: I feel like he was like, from that Sullivan, wasn't there like
a Sullivan family that was like Gordy.
No, that was Gordon soul.
Was it Gordon Sullivan?
That was
Brittney Sherman: Gordon.
There was an announcer.
Right.
So
Sonia Meza-Leon: right.
Sorry.
Okay.
Got it.
That's the guy.
I remember the little coma where he was so cute.
My dad loved that guy.
He had like these big glasses
Brittney Sherman: and
Sonia Meza-Leon: he was always standing between these wrestlers who were spitting
Brittney Sherman: all over him.
He had such a distinct.
Yeah, I liked that guy.
Uh, so, uh, all right.
Sorry.
I digress.
So, so Kevin writes this narrative of Nancy and Chris are starting to
have a, an on-screen relationship because, uh, Kevin is on a line
and Nancy can't take it anymore.
And they start to shoot these vignettes where, um, you know, Nancy is starting
to fall for Chris at the same time.
Chris is going through a divorce of his own will when she know it, lo and behold,
Life imitates art and they're spending so much on screen-time together that
they develop a relationship off screen.
And, uh, ultimately Nancy leaves heaven for Chris and this, uh, As oftentimes does
in wrestling when real life of interacts with wrestling, it bleeds onto the screen.
And so Chris and Kevin have this like blow off, aha, no holds barred,
violent match to, uh, end it all.
And I don't think it was explicit, but you know, the, the idea
of being winner gets Nancy.
Now Kevin Sullivan would go on to say, at this point there
was actually no hard feelings.
That was all character because he and Nancy had been separated for eight months.
Anyway, there are others that argue this and say, no, in fact,
Nancy's sister is one of them all.
Nancy's sister was at a show one night, but Nancy was not.
And Kevin and Chris got into a real life backstage fight and Kevin
was asking her to ride with him.
Chris said, no, come with me.
And, uh, Nancy was on the phone, told her sister no, get in the
car with Chris at the time.
Nancy was so married with Kevin.
Chris took Nancy sister to see Nancy and Nancy was battered and bruised,
and she claims that it was from Kevin abusing her Kevin denies these
allegations for what it's worth there.
You have it with the, uh, the start.
The tumultuous start of the Crispin wall.
Nancy Sullivan relationship Nancy gets pregnant, has a son.
They got married.
Their son was the best man.
They're living a happy life, but Chris is still frustrated with his position in WCW.
And Kevin Sullivan now is kind of running WCW.
And Kevin sees Chris as his top guy to lead WCW into the future.
So decides to make him their world champion.
And Chris wins the world title and quits in the same night and takes Nancy
with him along with his best friend, Eddie Guerrero, and two other guys
named Perry, Saturn and Dean Malone.
And they show up the next night on number one, competitor WWF as the radicals.
And now this is the next big moment in Crispin was life.
He is promised a lot of success in WWF.
Uh, he is seen as the, a plus player in the group of four and he is excited and
proud to be, uh, to be beyond WCW and beyond the confines of Kevin Sullivan.
So at this point, WWF is still, still favoring.
The big hulking dyes that you always saw in eighties and
nineties wrestling and well, Chris.
Any standard had an impressive physique.
He still was a short guy and couldn't stand up to the real big top strong guys.
So like many wrestlers do it is highly suggested that Chris started on steroids.
And if he didn't start on them, he was continuing on them.
Despite the quote unquote ban on the use of steroids, he would have a, a, a
pretty successful run in WWF over the course of the first few years he was in
what would be considered the mid card.
He was not a, a top guy, but he was still a successful, uh, he fought through a
lot of injuries because he fought through the injuries and didn't take the time
off like you should have he developed.
A pain killer habit.
Then in 2005 a night, that probably was the linchpin point for Crispin
was before he took his family's life.
Eddie Guerrero, his best friend for the last 10 years was found
dead in a hotel room by Eddie's nephew Chapo, Chris was destroyed.
He became a, a different person.
He would go to work.
He did his business and left.
There was no friendly interaction.
There was no, uh, the, the personality, if not the person in Crispin wall
was gone, he was destroyed because a year and a half before Eddie's death,
Chris and Eddie shared the spotlight.
With confetti falling down at the, uh, pinnacle moment of WrestleMania 20.
And that's a moment that the two of them always fought to achieve, and they were
able to share the spotlight at the end of the night together in Madison square
garden, which is considered the, uh, the greatest venue in sports, indoor sports.
I guess you could say it's worth noting.
Eddie was 38 at the time of his death.
His official cause of death was, uh, a cardiac arrhythmia leading to arrest.
He was clean.
He did not have drugs in his system, but he had a long storied use of drug
use that is believed to have led to the.
Essentially overworking of his heart and his, even though he was clean at the
time, his heart couldn't take it anymore.
So in the immediate aftermath of Eddie's death, Eddie's wife,
Vicky Guerrero was inconsolable.
And knowing that Eddie and Chris were so close, Nancy spent a week at the
Guerrero's house, helping the kids, helping Vicky and getting, essentially
getting the family back to normal.
And while she was doing that, no one was there to support Chris.
And so Chris went into a tremendous, terrible deep depression at one point,
Nancy filed for a restraining order and filed for divorce called Vicky for hell
Vicki, called a neighbor to step in.
And the neighbor stepped in Chris and Nancy.
Pretended to be amicable.
And within 48 hours of filing for a restraining order, the
divorce was called off and Chris and Nancy were back together.
Also during this time, Nancy and Vicki got together and thought as a
way of trying to help Chris get by this, get through the death of Eddie.
They will give him a journal.
And Chris wrote letters to Eddie in his journal.
So in June of 2007, crisp.
His personality was continuing to deteriorate.
Uh, he had never fully gotten over the death of Eddie.
He had, he was continuing to struggle and he was put in this tournament to
compete for the vacated ECW championship.
He was in the finals against the Dressler known as cm, punk, and they were going
to wrestle Sunday, June 24th, 2007 at the pay-per-view called vengeance.
The way the story goes is on June 22nd, Friday, Chris and Nancy
Benwah were outside by their pool and they had an argument and Chris
was never someone who drank and.
Did drugs after the death of Eddie grill, he became a drinker, not what you might
consider a heavy drinker, but enough that it was uncharacteristic for Chris.
So on the night of the 22nd of June, both Chris and Nancy had been drinking,
it is suggested that they had an argument, a half drank a bottle of
wine, which really isn't that much was not, not at all, not in my house.
I mean, yeah, it's really not that much.
So, you know, maybe, maybe there was more that.
Thrown away or something, but it was found outside and it is suggested
based on the evidence that would be found later that Chris tied Nancy's
arm, her wrists and ankles behind her, carried her to their bedroom.
Nilda on her back, strangled her and Chris's signature finishing move was
called the crippler cross face where he would wrench someone's neck back
until they tapped out or submitted.
So it's not that he did that move to her, but what he did is he took ligature,
yanked it around her neck, pulled it so hard that the pressure between
the, uh, ligature on her neck and his knees on her back called her, caused
her back to break and she suffered.
Sonia Meza-Leon: What the fuck.
Why did he wait, hold on.
So
Brittney Sherman: he pretty much talked tighter.
That's pretty much right.
I mean, well not, he did not hear wrists and ankles together, but tied, tied her
wrists together and her ankles together.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
Got it.
Behind her.
She couldn't, she couldn't fight back.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Why did he do
Brittney Sherman: that?
Why?
Because she's so she couldn't defend herself.
I mean, not that he needed to know, but I mean, why in general, why did he kill her?
We'll get to that.
Get to that.
So that was on Friday night on Saturday, Chris was supposed to go
to what's known as a house show, uh, which is a wrestling show.
It's not televised.
It's usually in front of a smaller crowd and he called Chavo Eddie's
cousin, Eddie's nephew, excuse me, and said, Hey, I'm not going to make.
Nancy and Daniel have food poisoning and I'm in the hospital with them.
Nancy's throwing up blood.
I can't make it tonight, but I'll make it to Houston for the pay-per-view tomorrow.
Okay, cool.
Take care of your family.
You know, we'll deal with it then early in the morning on a Sunday, the
24th as well as a WWE referee, Brad Armstrong get very strange text messages.
They are identical and they say, this is my address.
The dogs are out by the pool.
The gate is open from Chris.
Who did they wait?
Who got the Javo Guerrero at east nephew?
And Brad Armstrong, a WWE referee.
Oh, I know that name.
Okay.
Yeah.
Brad
Sonia Meza-Leon: Armstrong.
I know.
I mean my limited knowledge of wrestling.
Uh, okay.
So
Brittney Sherman: what happens?
Uh, Chapo didn't think it thought it was weird, but didn't think much of it.
He essentially replied to the text message and thought, okay.
You know, I'll pick you up at the airport in a few hours.
Cause he was expected to pick him up at the Houston airport for the event
that night we never heard from Korea.
Chris Don never confirmed his flight.
And so throughout the day, everyone started wondering
where Chris is, where Chris is.
Uh, someone said that they had a, another conversation that Chris said that, uh, now
his son was vomiting blood and in the ER, which is actually contradictory, he said
the day before that Nancy was vomiting blood and in the ER and Chris was with
them, but he'll catch a later flight.
So don't worry about it.
Well, they still couldn't get ahold of him.
It was getting close to the start of the show.
And so someone from WWE security called the local police, uh, in Chris's hometown
and said, can you go to a welfare check?
It's from one of our wrestlers, Chris Benwah, the police gets.
They don't know what they're going to see.
The dogs are out just like the text messages said, and
the dogs are, uh, curtailed.
They're fine.
And, uh, you know, move to the side officers, get in the house
and they find Nancy's body face down in the bed, tie it up.
Like we discussed with a Bible next to her.
Now Chris was never one to, he was never a religious guy, but any turned
to religion after he started to get clean and he started to get his best
friend, Chris involved in religion.
Chris was never, still, never followed it, but started to read
some passages and start to find his way through Christianity.
I guess you could say, Hmm.
The police then continue their way through the house.
And they come to Daniel's bedroom.
Daniel, seven years old.
He is face down in a pillow, under a pillow on his bed dead.
Now, strangely there's also a knife next to Daniel's bed, but there is no evidence
that the knife was used against Daniel.
So now there's obviously a double murder and they still have not
found the person that they were sent to try and find in the house.
Chris.
So now they're concerned that they have a violent person possibly still
in the house and they draw their guns and they start looking for him.
So they look throughout the house, they go down to the basement where
Chris has a gym, a home gym, and they see Crispin tie tied up around.
With Jim chord and hanging from the top of a gym unit that is being supported
or pulled down by excessive weights.
Uh, so he snapped his neck and killed himself.
The, uh, the WWE superstars were con in formed of the, the, uh, Vince the
findings, I guess you could say, just before that show went on the air.
I don't know how they went through with the show, but they did the next day.
And investigation continues that night.
Now Monday night, June 25th, WWE goes on the air with a tribute show to
Crispin wall because at this point, Say that they have been informed that
the three of them have died, but they have not been told holiday have died.
Now, this is obviously it's a, it's a point of controversy because
this is more than 24 hours later.
And it's pretty amazing that the police would not have reported their findings
26 hours earlier or whatever it was.
So WWE goes on the air with a tribute show.
You've got all sorts of superstars crying, talking about how great he was.
They show his best moments as a wrestler.
It's a, it's a really great, beautiful show.
WWE claims that two hours into the three-hour show is about when they found
out the true matters of the, the events of the death that Chris actually was
responsible for killing his wife and child, and then taking his own life.
Wait,
Sonia Meza-Leon: hold on a second.
What so ho how he may not know that and why didn't they check into it before they,
I mean, what he was, he killed himself.
Two people died that couldn't have killed themselves.
He was the only likely suspect.
How did they not know that before they did some kind
Brittney Sherman: of like the thoughts was carbon monoxide poisoning because
they hadn't, they claim, and this is supported by a lot of people.
They thought that it could have been carbon monoxide poisoning or some
sort of freak accident that killed all three of them that they didn't know,
Sonia Meza-Leon: her hands were tied
Brittney Sherman: and her feet, they didn't have that information yet.
Oh my God.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Now what the, what a mess there.
Well, what happened?
So what happened?
They halfway through, what did they, did they stop?
Did they, we
Brittney Sherman: finished the show.
Um, now you might be familiar with a wrestler named Chris Jericho.
He's a pretty famous guy.
I guess maybe not.
Okay.
Uh, no.
Well, he says he was watching that show.
I don't know if he was, I don't know if it was with WWE at the time or not,
but he said he was watching that show and he said that he has a hard time
believing that WWE didn't know because during one of their, like, what are
the wrestler videos paying tribute?
There was almost like a, a cryptic message.
That pretty much, it was something like, I used to think that I would never
trust anyone else more with my family.
And he just thought that is a really strange thing for someone
to say what, who said that, uh, it, I'm not cording that exactly.
But, uh, another wrestler by the name of, I think you get
went by William Regal at the.
Sonia Meza-Leon: And why would he say something like that?
Was he saying it about, about crisp Anwar or was he just
Brittney Sherman: saying it in general saying it about Crispin and water?
So that's the question.
Why would he phrase it in such a weird way?
Chris Jericho feels like some people knew something and they just weren't saying it.
So WWE goes off year.
The news starts to flood with the facts of what actually happened the next night.
They have another show and WWE chairman, Vince McMahon, who ran the previous show
starts the show saying we did what we thought was the right thing to do since
that time new evidence has come to light.
This is the last you will hear.
Crispin was named mentioned on this program.
And Crispin was name has never been mentioned on WWE Everest.
Sonia Meza-Leon: But don't you think that's, I mean, I'm, I think that's,
I don't know, I guess the right thing to do, but I mean, think about the
underlying reasons behind his behavior, which is probably that, you know,
prefrontal lobe damage from wrestling.
And then I, I mean, we all know the Vince of men is an opportunist.
So any time that he can overdraw drum dramatize something
to his benefit, he does.
So making a statement like that, I mean, he didn't have a choice,
but I mean, yes, I feel like that that in and of itself was an act.
I agree with whoever said that they knew,
Brittney Sherman: um, I, I, I don't disagree with you.
The Vincent man is an opportunist, but I think when you're talking about
a murder, that's a different thing.
That's a different level.
When you're talking about events happening in the world, in the media, Even your
own people that can kind of be written off as a period in life or something.
Yes, he's absolutely an opportunist, but now it's talking about getting
involved in a murder investigation and I think that's, I personally, that's
my opinion of the difference, I,
Sonia Meza-Leon: I guess, but how was he getting involved in a murder?
I mean, how, I mean, sure.
They reported too quickly without getting their facts straight, but
I'm not sure that that meant that they participated in any way in the
Brittney Sherman: murders.
No, no, no.
I agree.
But I think that they wanted to do everything that they could to
distance themselves from Chris.
He, he was completely removed.
Now.
You, they, you can.
You can look all over WWE.
You will not find his name anywhere like his wrestling matches.
You can still find on their streaming network, but if you
search for Crispin wall on the streaming network, it comes up empty.
It's only if you know where to look, will you be able to find them because
they're part of a larger program.
Uh, but more importantly, let's talk about exactly what you just said.
That pre frontal lobe damage due to the activity, the profession,
the livelihood that he was in.
And let's talk about that diving head, but that he did thousands.
Upon thousands of times, there was one wrestler whose name is Chris Nowinski,
who retired from wrestling to get into neuroscience after he had six concussions.
And he asked Chris at one point in his career, how many
concussions have you had increases?
I can't even tell, I can't count how many.
So there is no doubt that he had tremendous brain damage so much so that
his brain was autopsied afterwards.
It had severe CTE, which we all know is what's found largely
in a lot of NFL players now.
And it's actually suggested that the rate of CTE and early death of wrestlers could
be doubled that of NFL players suggested I have heard that said I don't have
the confirmed science to back that up.
So I want to emphasize that.
Sonia Meza-Leon: But this is a surprise me because they don't have any gear on
that's protecting them and they bang each other on the head with folding
Brittney Sherman: chairs.
That's exactly right.
And after that and after me, so after Crispin Wawa, they outlawed
exactly the act that you just said, bang each other on the head.
I swear.
Absolutely.
They definitely did.
They, uh, they got rid of like allowing that diving head butt or allowing
that head first type of contact.
They had a drug policy previously and after Crispin law, they
strongly started to inform.
And in addition to the CTE, Chris had a, uh, a posthumous blood tests done
to check for drugs in his system.
He had some alcoholic system because there were half drank, bottled wine found all
around the house, not just by the pool where Nancy was probably killed or at
the very least tied up, but no illegal drugs, no real prescription drugs, no
steroids, but he had 10 times the normal amount of testosterone in his body.
And if you listen to a WWE attorney, he will tell you that that's not uncommon
for someone getting over steroids is usage because steroids decrease the
amount of testosterone in your body.
And when you stop using the steroids, you need to replenish your loss to stop.
Others will tell you that is a way to get around using steroids by
increasing your testosterone levels.
Huh?
Interesting.
All right.
The way the services of Nancy and Daniel were attended only by one WWE participant
Jim Ross, who was a talent relations guy and onscreen play by play guy.
He was asked to leave.
Crispin wa had a private service only with his surviving son, David from a previous
marriage and Chris, his ex wife, uh, an immediate family in the time after the
murders, that diary that he was given.
So he.
Right to Eddie was found and read, and it had some very telling signs in there.
And it would almost read like someone whose mental capacity
and sanity was deteriorating.
Even as much saying, as I know, I'll be seeing you soon,
I'm coming to be with you.
So he said,
Sonia Meza-Leon: so you feel like that he, he obviously had this planned?
Brittney Sherman: Yes, absolutely.
This was not
Sonia Meza-Leon: high.
The why?
Like how do you have it planned and then kill your wife and your son too?
Well, like why?
Because that seems like to me that was something, I mean, maybe it was planned,
but like why, you know, kill yourself.
Brittney Sherman: Why kill them?
Well, a hundred percent.
Exactly.
So he, uh, not only did he have terrible CTE, he had the brain
of an 85 year old Alzheimer's.
So he clearly was not in the right mental capacity.
He leading up to that time in the 18 months between Eddie's and Chris's death.
Chris was exhibiting more violent behavior, more erratic behavior.
He wasn't himself, whether or not he intended to take that action.
The weekend of June 22nd to the 24th, or it was something that snapped in him
that weekend that led him to choose.
Then maybe he was planning on just killing himself.
Maybe he had some sort of demons talking to him in his diseased brain.
We'll never know exactly what caused it.
It was a hideous, disgusting murder.
And.
Changed wrestling forever.
Um, as I said, there are no more chair shots to the head.
There are no more what are called pile drivers, where you throw a
guy straight down on his head.
There's no more diving headbutts or leading with your head.
There are stricter drug policies, but regardless three people, two completely
innocently, including a seven year old boy lost their life due to what many people
will argue was negligence in the way that a business worked for generations.
And the only way that Chris felt like he could succeed.
Sonia Meza-Leon: I mean, don't you think that still exists in
the world of wrestling though?
I think it
Brittney Sherman: definitely does.
I think that there are other wrestling companies out there.
Absolutely.
That still do it.
I think that.
I think that WWE tries to do the right thing.
I think that they say the right things, but whether or not they're
actually doing the right things, it's hard to tell here, I'm going to
Sonia Meza-Leon: ask you this.
What do you, what do you think about Vince McMahon as a
Brittney Sherman: person?
Uh, as a, as an individual person or as a businessman, those are,
they are, that's why I'm asking.
Um, it's hard to say because they're different, but they're also kind of the
same because he's business as business ethics drive his personal ethics.
And if it's right for his business, it will compromise his personal ethics.
But I think it's sort of verse
Sonia Meza-Leon: two, I think more so your bill, your personal
ethics should drive your business.
They should, but I don't think they shouldn't
Brittney Sherman: change because their money, I agree.
They shouldn't change because of money.
But I think with a lot of shrewd businessmen, and I'm not saying that
in women, and I'm not saying this.
To protect them or support them.
I don't think that's the way that it works.
Uh, you mean hit for him or him.
And I think a lot of people, I don't think he's unique in that situation.
I think there are a lot of business people that operate that way.
Sonia Meza-Leon: I guess I would just say that in his business, he's in the
business of exploitation of people.
And so I guess maybe by nature, that is the case.
I mean, it's, uh, he, he at times will exploit his himself to help prophets.
Brittney Sherman: Yeah.
I was just going to say, it's, it's his people, but he'll do it himself too.
He will put himself out there for better or worse.
Yeah.
Sonia Meza-Leon: He's very much, uh, um, uh, you know, he's, he's
very visible in that industry.
Um, and as part of what he does, I mean, he's, he's one of the characters.
Brittney Sherman: He is a character.
Yeah.
He, uh, he was one of their biggest characters for a few years.
That's
Sonia Meza-Leon: crazy.
That's so sad.
I don't understand why you would, what was, so go back.
How the boy was seven.
How did he
Brittney Sherman: die?
Uh, the, he was, oh, good question.
Uh, he was heavily drugged with Zabbix and suffocated most likely with a pillow.
Oh,
Sonia Meza-Leon: really?
Yes.
So he had the die at the hands of his
Brittney Sherman: father?
Yeah.
No.
And that's the thing.
So Nancy was killed on Friday night.
Daniel is most, most likely killed on Saturday morning.
And Chris stayed in the house until probably mid morning,
Sunday until he killed himself.
Sonia Meza-Leon: That's crazy.
So what the heck was he?
I mean, he must've been in some kind of state of mind.
Can you imagine what he was like walking
Brittney Sherman: around his house?
He exactly.
I, uh, I just, I can't, I mean, I can only imagine some sort of psychosis, like
I CA I can't imagine any other way that you could be, and he's, you know, leaving
voicemails and, and sending text messages, but, you know, he, even, he even talked on
the phone though, to a couple of people.
I, you know, they, they, they claim that he sounded like he was in distress.
Like you was, you know, disturbed, but I just, I can't, I can't imagine what
the, for over 24 hours, he walked around the house with his dead wife and son.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Yeah.
I mean, what happened?
I mean, he killed his wife, obviously.
And then what on Friday night?
And then he probably realized that by Saturday morning, his son would find
out that his wife was no longer living and he didn't really have a choice.
Brittney Sherman: So.
He probably felt like my son's going to find out.
And I either turned myself in and he probably wasn't the right state
of mind and did what he, the worst possible took the worst possible route.
Um, it's just, it's, it's so sad.
And you want to, you know, you want to talk about Vince McMahon
and, and how he exploits them.
Chris had an older son, David from, from a previous marriage,
as I mentioned, WWE did not once reach out to David to support him.
They did not reach out to Nancy's family to support them.
And it wasn't until last year, 2000, 19, 12 years after the horrific
events that David and Nancy.
Got together again for the very first time.
And that was at the behest of Chris Jericho who arranged for the two
of them to meet and get together.
Sonia Meza-Leon: That's terrible.
That is a horrible story.
No,
Brittney Sherman: it's thank you, Brittany.
I'm sorry.
I brought you down, but you brought me down.
It's
Sonia Meza-Leon: okay.
Yeah, no, I pay it's.
No, I know.
I mean, it's hard to talk about these subjects are
Brittney Sherman: lighthearted.
No, they're not at all.
It's it's really tragic, uh, you know, to, to cover my sources.
Um, vice TV day, a a docu series called the dark side of the ring and they did
a two-part episode specific to Crispin wall, the, uh, the podcast, something
to wrestle with Bruce Prichard, a sports illustrated article, like a pedia.
Um, there's I, uh, What's happened in 2007.
So I've read a lot and watched a lot since that time.
But these are the ones that I particularly recently focused on that that kind of
gave me the most fresh information.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Do you feel, do you guys, do you feel like that?
Um, I mean, I'd like to think that the WWE, as well as the NFL
is taking, you know, head trauma seriously, um, you feel like, cause
you still watch wrestling, I think.
Do you feel like that there's some progress there?
I mean, cause they don't wear any protection.
Brittney Sherman: Just like I said, you know, they got rid of
chair shots, they got rid of a head to head or head first impact.
They, I think have gotten rid of blood or intentional bleeding sometimes
that happens just on accident.
But most of the times when we see blood in wrestling, it's intentional.
Uh, so I think that's out loud.
So I think they are taking those.
I think they are taking them seriously.
Uh, their, their drug policy has gotten much more stringent
and most of these things are a direct result of crisp and law.
And they might not tell you that it was direct.
They might tell you that it was, those were policies that were in
place, but they were just very lax and became more stringent, but most
people will tell you it's directly because of the Crispin wall murders.
Hmm.
Sonia Meza-Leon: So back to the drugs.
Do, do you mean like illegal drugs or?
Well, I mean, I guess I could still be steroids.
What kind of drugs are they testing for?
What?
I mean, I would say that most of those folks should probably be smoking
marijuana because they're probably like what, what kind of drugs are you?
Brittney Sherman: Are, is there, are there specific or just time.
I don't know, I don't, I haven't read their drug policy.
I don't even know if it's available to be read, but if you hear people
talk about it, it's pretty stringent.
Marijuana is on that list.
Steroids are definitely on that list.
Uh, anything that could be even considered a slight performance enhancing
drug or illegal drug, uh, cocaine, I think painkillers are all allowed,
assuming that they're prescribed.
I would hope to God that they're allowed because the amount of damage those bodies
go through, I can't imagine why they wouldn't be allowed, but I have really no
idea, but I've heard it's very stringent.
Sonia Meza-Leon: That's crazy about pot because,
Brittney Sherman: well, but hang on a second, but also hanging
out in the second they are.
I think they're incorporated, I think in Connecticut, that's where
their headquarters are, but they.
A national and even global company.
So they're on the road except for right now all the time.
So you're going potentially from one state to the next to the next night, after night
after night, it pot's legal in one state.
It's illegal the next day.
You kind of have to have a knock across the board policy.
I would think.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Yeah, I guess I just think it's kind of silly.
I mean, and by the way, anybody who says that pod is a performance enhancing
drug has, cause it's not enhancing when Michael Phelps got in trouble for pot.
I was like, this is like, It did not.
I mean, seriously, like you, he would be so much faster if
he smoked or he didn't smoke.
So God bless him, you know, like actually maybe gave those
other guys a fighting chance.
I mean, I think it's just silly.
Um, I think that there's something about the NFL policy that's changing
now and being able to use cannabis, or maybe they're using CBD.
Something has to change.
I mean, these guys, well, I think CBD is talking about
Brittney Sherman: getting hooked on narcotics.
Well, CBD is legal in the entire country, but there are going to be
a lot of people that are going to tell you that CBD and other narcotics
are not on the same playing field.
Sonia Meza-Leon: They aren't CBD.
Doesn't have any kind of hallucinogenic qualities at all.
It's
Brittney Sherman: really just CBD also.
So does not provide largely the same relief.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Oh, are you saying that it does?
Uh, well maybe, I guess you mean, you're saying that CBD doesn't
provide the same relief that
Brittney Sherman: TB, the THC does?
No, I'm saying CBD doesn't from a pain standpoint, no pain.
Um, THC doesn't touch pain.
I'm saying THC doesn't touch pain at the level that an oxycodone does.
Sonia Meza-Leon: No, of course.
Brittney Sherman: Oh my God, that you can't, you can't say that you can take
CBD over other prescription narcotics.
They're not the same.
They don't do the same thing.
Sonia Meza-Leon: No, no, no.
I would agree with you.
I mean, certainly beyond a certain point CBD or THC is not going to help.
Yeah, yeah, no it's but if it can, I mean, if it can help a bit, I would say, you
know, I mean, I considered marijuana to be effective for pain between anything
more than a Tylenol can take care of, but less than like, you know, a Vicodin, like
there's like a tiny little sweet spot where it's like, just enough, think if
Brittney Sherman: you get a strong enough.
Yeah.
I think that's probably true.
Yeah.
If you get a strong enough, you know,
Sonia Meza-Leon: Yeah.
I mean, some of that stuff is pretty, pretty hard, but it's
Brittney Sherman: true.
So, uh, well that was very interesting little conspiracy theory to wrap this up.
Oh, as you were talking about is how is it possible that the WWE didn't
know about these events beforehand the night between Daniel's murder and
Chris's suicide Wikipedia reported that Crispin wall was going to be replaced
in his championship match with John Morrison because of an illness in the
family that hadn't been reported yet.
Also that night, that post was deleted by Wikipedia and then a, another post came
up, reporting the deaths of his family.
That first post came from.
Stanford Connecticut.
The home of the WWE headquarters.
The second post came from somewhere in Australia, both posts were flagged and
deleted by Wikipedia for not meeting their standards of qualification.
Of course, there's a question of how did those posts ever make it up
there and you can still see them?
I think because, uh, you can do like a historical edit or historical read
or something of Wikipedia posts.
Hmm.
Sonia Meza-Leon: I mean, I, I would not be surprised at the
Brittney Sherman: WWE new it's.
Um, you know, it's hard to imagine that they didn't know if they knew some it's
hard to imagine that they would move forward with a tribute show if they did.
Sonia Meza-Leon: I know, think about what that meant, you know, think
about, think about their priorities.
And, but I mean, here, what I don't understand is how would they not know?
They knew that he hung himself.
They, they claim that he knew the other two knew that they knew that
other two other people died in the house, unless someone else came in
and killed those other two people.
I mean, crystal, you know what I mean?
Like,
Brittney Sherman: I don't know that they, they claim they did not know
that he hung himself and it's possible that it was a triple homicide.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Oh, Hmm.
Interesting.
I'm going to go read Wikipedia right now.
All right.
Interesting.
That was a good one.
Brittney Sherman: Britain is tragic story of the murders of Nancy and Daniel
Benwah and the suicide of Crispin wall.
Sonia Meza-Leon: Hmm.
That
Brittney Sherman: was sad.
But I'm planning.
I got you.
One that you are not familiar with.
Sonia Meza-Leon: I knew a little bit about it, but I didn't
follow wrestling that much.
Um, but I mean, I knew it was a sad situation.
I didn't know the extent, um, about, you know, the conditions of his wife and
then his little boy, that's just really
Brittney Sherman: sad.
It's horrible.
And
Sonia Meza-Leon: I mean, I think that what you said too, you know, back
to the, the brain damage, um, you know, we have to take that seriously
and I'm glad that there was evidence showing, you know, that, that there
was something behind his actions.
Absolutely.
I agree.
We'd love to hear from you guys as well.
You know, if you have suggestions or you want to hear us talk about certain things,
Brittney Sherman: feel free to share.
You know, some of the things that we find particularly important is to support other
independent podcasters and in a way to branch out and connect with others and
support the independent podcast community.
Uh, we have a couple, uh, little shout outs that we want to provide.
So I have a couple
Sonia Meza-Leon: of shout outs that I would love to do some
folks that I've worked with in the past and had communication with.
And I find quite lovely.
Um, the first would be, um, music city, 9 1, 1 Brandon Hall.
You guys should take a listen.
I, um, I he's a 9 1, 1 dispatcher from Nashville, Tennessee, very entertaining.
I love his approach and I cannot stop listening to his voice.
And the other podcast that I'd like to give a shout out to his meanwhile at the
studio, it's going guys in my hometown, you know, who created a podcast, um,
environment in a recording studio there.
And, um, they're doing really great.
So I did some, I sat in with them a couple of times and we had some fun.
So please take a listen to their trailer as well.
Meanwhile, at the station.
Brittney Sherman: Check out a couple other podcasters that support us and
we want to give them some support.
Hey fellow Scarlet, true crime listeners.
I'm CC the host of a new true crime podcast, sooner state, true crime as
a born and bred Oki I'll cover cases based in my wonderful home state of
Oklahoma, the term sooner actually refers to cheaters in the land run.
My state's very first true crime.
New episodes are released twice a month in apple podcasts and most
podcasts ups or visit our website, anchor.fm/crime state to listen now.
So come away with me to my crime state on the sooner state true crime podcast,
and please stay sooner safe out there.
Y'all
hi everyone.
I'm Ariel Cooksey host of now.
When violent acts occur, we tend to think the predators are monsters,
Charlene or human could do such things.
But if we're honest, only humans commit malicious crime.
And if you're like me, you want to know why to find out, join me at malice,
wherever you listen to podcasts by.
Hey, y'all I'm Brandon Hall.
I'm one of the hosts of music city, nine 11, a podcast about the good,
the bad, and the dark side of nine 11.
Dispatching me and my co-hosts are 9 1 1 dispatchers.
With over 60 years of experience.
Join us as we play 9 1 1 calls and discuss them.
Oh, did I mention that we get.
9 1 1, what's your emergency
You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at music city
nominal one, and we're downloadable on every podcast platform.
We want to give a shout out to the pod all the time podcast network that we Scarlet
TCP are proud members of other members
Sonia Meza-Leon: of the pot, all the time podcast network.
Creative intuitive, another digital citizen history of a haunting
round and round the podcast.
Real AKA truth podcast, ruck up podcast, random unnamed podcast, suburban folk,
three peas in a podcast, Ross sex podcast.
I think we're doing it
Brittney Sherman: podcast.
Just so if you like what you're hearing from Scarlet TCP, check out
these other shows that members of the pod all the time podcast network.
Alrighty, thank you.
Scarlett autos, stay healthy, stay safe.
We are the ladies of Scarlet.
Keep killing it
Sonia Meza-Leon: later.