1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,610 Matt Edmundson: So welcome back to the 2 00:00:01,620 --> 00:00:03,710 e commerce podcast with me, your host, 3 00:00:03,730 --> 00:00:04,560 Matt Edmundson. 4 00:00:04,580 --> 00:00:07,940 This is a show all about helping 5 00:00:07,940 --> 00:00:10,010 you deliver eCommerce Wow. 6 00:00:10,070 --> 00:00:11,449 And to do that. 7 00:00:12,579 --> 00:00:15,089 I am chatting to the wonderful chap 8 00:00:15,089 --> 00:00:17,860 called Jay Neyer from Lantern Sol. 9 00:00:18,250 --> 00:00:20,210 We are going to be getting into what it 10 00:00:20,210 --> 00:00:23,339 looks like to grow your brand from six 11 00:00:23,339 --> 00:00:25,370 figures to seven figures to eight 12 00:00:25,370 --> 00:00:26,490 figures and beyond. 13 00:00:26,499 --> 00:00:28,190 From the man who has been there, done 14 00:00:28,190 --> 00:00:29,579 it, read the book, seen the film, got 15 00:00:29,579 --> 00:00:32,239 the t shirt and all of that good stuff. 16 00:00:32,239 --> 00:00:33,429 So grab your notebooks, grab your 17 00:00:33,429 --> 00:00:34,410 pens because you're going to want to get 18 00:00:34,410 --> 00:00:35,500 into all of this. 19 00:00:35,500 --> 00:00:36,830 But before we do. 20 00:00:38,010 --> 00:00:40,250 Let me just take a few moments 21 00:00:40,260 --> 00:00:41,589 just to say if you haven't done so 22 00:00:41,589 --> 00:00:43,310 already, make sure you go over to the 23 00:00:43,310 --> 00:00:44,790 website, sign up for the newsletter, 24 00:00:45,789 --> 00:00:46,189 ecommercepodcast. 25 00:00:46,220 --> 00:00:48,430 net, uh, and we'll be sending 26 00:00:48,430 --> 00:00:49,039 stuff out to you. 27 00:00:49,050 --> 00:00:50,009 It's all getting revamped at 28 00:00:50,020 --> 00:00:51,109 the moment, the newsletter. 29 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:52,350 It's going to be so much better than 30 00:00:52,350 --> 00:00:53,960 it was and it was pretty cool before, 31 00:00:53,980 --> 00:00:55,909 but it's going to be so much better. 32 00:00:56,410 --> 00:00:58,420 Uh, so those changes at the time of 33 00:00:58,420 --> 00:01:00,120 recording probably were about two weeks 34 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:01,210 off, I think, so. 35 00:01:01,620 --> 00:01:02,780 Let me tell you, that means by 36 00:01:02,780 --> 00:01:04,009 the time this has come out, it's 37 00:01:04,009 --> 00:01:05,339 been working for a little while. 38 00:01:05,339 --> 00:01:06,830 So go over to the website, e 39 00:01:06,830 --> 00:01:07,750 commerce podcast. 40 00:01:07,770 --> 00:01:09,139 net, sign up to the newsletter. 41 00:01:09,300 --> 00:01:10,550 We only send out one email a week. 42 00:01:10,550 --> 00:01:12,600 It's pretty cool, pretty tame, uh, and 43 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:13,649 pretty insightful. 44 00:01:13,710 --> 00:01:15,279 Uh, and so yeah, go do that. 45 00:01:15,289 --> 00:01:17,300 Also come follow me on Instagram, 46 00:01:17,300 --> 00:01:17,409 not Instagram. 47 00:01:17,409 --> 00:01:17,979 What's the other one? 48 00:01:18,009 --> 00:01:18,249 LinkedIn. 49 00:01:18,795 --> 00:01:20,165 That's what I'm using a lot of, 50 00:01:20,585 --> 00:01:22,155 uh, come find me on LinkedIn. 51 00:01:22,155 --> 00:01:23,175 Would love to meet you there. 52 00:01:23,215 --> 00:01:25,375 Matt Edmundson, uh, come say, how's it? 53 00:01:25,445 --> 00:01:27,380 Uh, we get to meet a lot of e commerce's 54 00:01:27,380 --> 00:01:28,355 on LinkedIn. 55 00:01:28,365 --> 00:01:30,065 A lot of, a lot of listeners, 56 00:01:30,065 --> 00:01:30,964 which is great. 57 00:01:30,975 --> 00:01:33,235 And you tell me the stories and, uh, and 58 00:01:33,264 --> 00:01:34,084 I love to hear them. 59 00:01:34,094 --> 00:01:35,784 So yeah, do come do that. 60 00:01:35,919 --> 00:01:36,829 Anyway, enough about that. 61 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,279 Let's talk about Jay, a modern 62 00:01:39,409 --> 00:01:40,249 Renaissance man. 63 00:01:40,259 --> 00:01:42,419 It says here in my notes, which I 64 00:01:42,419 --> 00:01:43,279 think is fantastic. 65 00:01:43,589 --> 00:01:45,719 A philosopher, a musician, a 66 00:01:45,719 --> 00:01:48,019 multilingual mastermind beyond 67 00:01:48,019 --> 00:01:49,739 his creative pursuits. 68 00:01:49,979 --> 00:01:52,659 He's a powerhouse in e commerce has 69 00:01:52,659 --> 00:01:54,639 generated over a hundred million 70 00:01:54,639 --> 00:01:57,479 in sales and developed over 500 71 00:01:57,509 --> 00:01:59,549 websites and apps. 72 00:01:59,940 --> 00:02:01,759 He's a featured speaker for Shopify 73 00:02:01,759 --> 00:02:04,199 and Amazon and Jay blends big 74 00:02:04,199 --> 00:02:05,089 picture thinking. 75 00:02:05,365 --> 00:02:07,114 With technical expertise to turn 76 00:02:07,125 --> 00:02:09,405 six figure brands into eight figure 77 00:02:09,435 --> 00:02:12,335 success stories, which coincidentally 78 00:02:13,035 --> 00:02:14,325 is why we have him on the show. 79 00:02:14,594 --> 00:02:15,235 Yes, it is. 80 00:02:15,475 --> 00:02:17,654 So, uh, Jay, welcome to the show, man. 81 00:02:17,954 --> 00:02:19,835 Uh, great to have you all the way from 82 00:02:19,844 --> 00:02:22,055 Cincinnati, which I believe is in Ohio. 83 00:02:22,234 --> 00:02:23,875 If my American geography serves me. 84 00:02:24,255 --> 00:02:25,325 Yeah, it's great to have you. 85 00:02:26,235 --> 00:02:27,305 Yeah, it's good to have you. 86 00:02:27,305 --> 00:02:27,625 It's good. 87 00:02:27,675 --> 00:02:31,085 Are you a Cincinnati Reds fan? 88 00:02:31,085 --> 00:02:32,285 That's what I know about Cincinnati. 89 00:02:32,285 --> 00:02:33,195 There's a baseball team. 90 00:02:33,405 --> 00:02:34,625 Jay Neyer: Yeah, for the sports 91 00:02:34,635 --> 00:02:35,644 scene, you know, we don't have a 92 00:02:35,644 --> 00:02:36,525 lot of accolades. 93 00:02:36,795 --> 00:02:38,815 Um, I also travel a fair amount. 94 00:02:38,815 --> 00:02:41,024 So, Cincinnati's home base, but I 95 00:02:41,025 --> 00:02:42,445 bounce around all over the world. 96 00:02:42,595 --> 00:02:44,105 Uh, fortunately, my work I can just 97 00:02:44,105 --> 00:02:45,085 do from a laptop. 98 00:02:45,085 --> 00:02:48,145 So, whether it be in Brazil, or Colombia, 99 00:02:48,145 --> 00:02:49,755 or somewhere in Europe, I'm, I'm 100 00:02:49,755 --> 00:02:51,985 most often not traveling, so I've 101 00:02:52,055 --> 00:02:54,555 lost track of their games and scheduling 102 00:02:54,565 --> 00:02:55,015 over the years. 103 00:02:55,015 --> 00:02:58,265 I, I frankly, uh, prefer to put my 104 00:02:58,265 --> 00:02:59,495 time and attention to other things 105 00:02:59,495 --> 00:03:02,094 outside of sports, but I, I root for 106 00:03:02,094 --> 00:03:04,054 them just for the sake of my friends 107 00:03:04,054 --> 00:03:05,385 and family wanting to be happy. 108 00:03:06,095 --> 00:03:06,815 Indirectly. 109 00:03:06,815 --> 00:03:07,394 You could say I'm a fan. 110 00:03:07,875 --> 00:03:08,515 Matt Edmundson: Indirectly. 111 00:03:08,524 --> 00:03:09,045 A fair play. 112 00:03:09,054 --> 00:03:10,174 I, I appreciate that. 113 00:03:10,174 --> 00:03:12,495 I, I remember when I was a kid, 114 00:03:12,525 --> 00:03:13,685 and I appreciate this is going 115 00:03:13,685 --> 00:03:14,385 back a long time. 116 00:03:14,814 --> 00:03:16,795 Uh, but when I was a kid, my dad, 117 00:03:17,174 --> 00:03:19,265 uh, traveled to the States with, 118 00:03:19,265 --> 00:03:20,444 for business for the first time. 119 00:03:20,444 --> 00:03:21,575 And it was a big deal. 120 00:03:21,894 --> 00:03:22,824 You know, this was sort of in the 121 00:03:22,825 --> 00:03:23,504 early eighties. 122 00:03:23,504 --> 00:03:24,814 This was a big deal when your dad 123 00:03:24,815 --> 00:03:26,494 sort of traveled to the States and 124 00:03:26,494 --> 00:03:28,654 he ended up going to Cincinnati and 125 00:03:28,654 --> 00:03:30,014 he bought me back this t shirt, the 126 00:03:30,014 --> 00:03:31,384 Cincinnati t shirt, which I think is 127 00:03:31,384 --> 00:03:32,734 still in my mum's attic, if I'm 128 00:03:32,734 --> 00:03:33,509 going to be honest. 129 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,390 Uh, and he bought me back a Cincinnati 130 00:03:36,390 --> 00:03:39,829 Reds cap, um, and he said, you have 131 00:03:39,829 --> 00:03:41,180 to support the Cincinnati Reds 132 00:03:41,180 --> 00:03:41,870 baseball team. 133 00:03:41,870 --> 00:03:43,179 And I'm like, well, sure, why not? 134 00:03:43,179 --> 00:03:44,519 I don't know anything about 135 00:03:44,519 --> 00:03:44,910 baseball. 136 00:03:44,910 --> 00:03:46,320 We didn't have the internet back then. 137 00:03:46,450 --> 00:03:47,560 I was never going to see the game. 138 00:03:48,190 --> 00:03:50,330 Um, And then that's the last time I 139 00:03:50,350 --> 00:03:51,370 thought about it until I've just 140 00:03:51,370 --> 00:03:52,120 spoken to you now. 141 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:52,210 So 142 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:53,980 Jay Neyer: yeah, well fun fact for 143 00:03:53,980 --> 00:03:55,700 you, Cincinnati Reds, they were 144 00:03:55,700 --> 00:03:57,310 the very first professional 145 00:03:57,340 --> 00:03:58,210 baseball team in the U. 146 00:03:58,210 --> 00:03:58,510 S. 147 00:03:59,229 --> 00:03:59,900 Matt Edmundson: Ah, okay. 148 00:04:00,309 --> 00:04:00,539 Jay Neyer: Yeah. 149 00:04:00,559 --> 00:04:01,050 Well, there you 150 00:04:01,050 --> 00:04:01,190 Matt Edmundson: go. 151 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:02,700 Jay Neyer: Some trivia, some useless 152 00:04:02,710 --> 00:04:04,029 trivia knowledge you'll never need, 153 00:04:04,030 --> 00:04:04,830 but now you know. 154 00:04:05,019 --> 00:04:05,510 Matt Edmundson: Well, you never 155 00:04:05,510 --> 00:04:07,019 know, it might come up in a pub quiz. 156 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:08,629 Um, you know, those, those kind 157 00:04:08,629 --> 00:04:10,150 of questions come up all the time, don't 158 00:04:10,150 --> 00:04:11,690 they, in, in pub quizzes, which is, 159 00:04:11,690 --> 00:04:12,870 uh, it's wonderful to have it. 160 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:13,640 I'll have forgotten it by 161 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:14,820 the time we finish recording, though. 162 00:04:14,940 --> 00:04:17,000 But, uh, at least I know it now. 163 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,380 Ha, ha, ha, ha. 164 00:04:19,580 --> 00:04:20,900 Well, listen, let's jump into 165 00:04:20,900 --> 00:04:22,580 it because I, I loving your bio. 166 00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:24,050 You know, you've done a lot of work. 167 00:04:24,050 --> 00:04:25,820 You've had your own e-commerce store, 168 00:04:25,820 --> 00:04:27,230 which you, you mentioned before 169 00:04:27,230 --> 00:04:28,400 we hit the record button, which 170 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,820 you built, sold, and uh, and, and 171 00:04:30,820 --> 00:04:31,510 got out of there. 172 00:04:31,510 --> 00:04:34,570 You, you now help other companies with 173 00:04:34,690 --> 00:04:36,400 their own eCommerce stores and, and 174 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:37,270 helped them scale. 175 00:04:37,950 --> 00:04:39,270 Uh, and so I'm intrigued 'cause 176 00:04:39,270 --> 00:04:41,099 your story is a little bit similar 177 00:04:41,159 --> 00:04:42,359 to mine in the sense we both 178 00:04:42,359 --> 00:04:43,859 built quite big online businesses 179 00:04:43,890 --> 00:04:44,880 and sold them. 180 00:04:45,485 --> 00:04:48,505 Uh, and so it's like, it's like 181 00:04:48,525 --> 00:04:50,485 looking into a mirror, uh, J is, 182 00:04:50,505 --> 00:04:51,055 is, is what it is. 183 00:04:51,724 --> 00:04:53,294 Um, and so I'm kind of curious 184 00:04:53,294 --> 00:04:54,154 about your story. 185 00:04:54,154 --> 00:04:55,275 How did you, how did you get 186 00:04:55,275 --> 00:04:56,104 into e commerce? 187 00:04:56,835 --> 00:04:57,025 Jay Neyer: Yeah. 188 00:04:57,025 --> 00:04:59,535 So in school, back in university, I 189 00:04:59,535 --> 00:05:01,995 was doing a double major in philosophy 190 00:05:01,995 --> 00:05:04,174 and accounting, and I figured if I just 191 00:05:04,204 --> 00:05:05,605 picked the two most opposite things, 192 00:05:05,695 --> 00:05:06,625 I'll find something in the middle. 193 00:05:08,345 --> 00:05:10,965 And, uh, it, it, it worked 194 00:05:10,965 --> 00:05:11,805 out pretty well. 195 00:05:11,865 --> 00:05:14,385 I, uh, I started doing accounting 196 00:05:14,385 --> 00:05:16,375 internships and I was just bored 197 00:05:16,375 --> 00:05:17,155 out of my mind. 198 00:05:17,155 --> 00:05:19,325 I was sitting behind a cubicle, just 199 00:05:19,665 --> 00:05:21,685 hating my life, hating my job, 200 00:05:22,245 --> 00:05:24,094 hating my outfit that I had to 201 00:05:24,094 --> 00:05:27,065 put on every day, really not liking 202 00:05:27,075 --> 00:05:27,984 where I was at. 203 00:05:28,555 --> 00:05:30,074 And I remember very vividly one 204 00:05:30,075 --> 00:05:33,174 day driving home after, um, there 205 00:05:33,355 --> 00:05:35,465 was like a pub crawl or something like 206 00:05:35,465 --> 00:05:36,065 that after work. 207 00:05:36,065 --> 00:05:37,584 And I just, I felt like I was 208 00:05:37,585 --> 00:05:39,165 just surrounded by the most. 209 00:05:39,835 --> 00:05:41,605 Uninspiring people you could imagine 210 00:05:41,605 --> 00:05:42,405 just having the most boring 211 00:05:42,455 --> 00:05:43,335 conversations. 212 00:05:43,395 --> 00:05:45,545 And I remember just crying on 213 00:05:45,545 --> 00:05:46,045 my way home. 214 00:05:46,045 --> 00:05:46,985 Like, how is this my life? 215 00:05:46,985 --> 00:05:48,085 Like, how did, how did this, how 216 00:05:48,085 --> 00:05:48,645 did this happen? 217 00:05:48,675 --> 00:05:49,295 Like, where did I, where 218 00:05:49,295 --> 00:05:50,135 did I go wrong? 219 00:05:50,135 --> 00:05:53,554 And so shortly after that, I decided 220 00:05:53,575 --> 00:05:55,274 I'm going to start reading about famous 221 00:05:55,274 --> 00:05:56,825 entrepreneurs, try to make something 222 00:05:56,825 --> 00:05:57,374 of my life. 223 00:05:57,424 --> 00:05:58,724 And it seemed like technology was 224 00:05:58,725 --> 00:05:59,544 a common theme. 225 00:05:59,774 --> 00:06:01,074 And so I figured I'm going to 226 00:06:01,404 --> 00:06:02,234 learn how to code. 227 00:06:02,244 --> 00:06:03,114 How do I do that? 228 00:06:03,164 --> 00:06:04,244 I'm going to start building a 229 00:06:04,254 --> 00:06:05,334 website and I'll start building 230 00:06:05,334 --> 00:06:06,134 it for myself. 231 00:06:06,675 --> 00:06:08,675 Uh, so I started off making a website, 232 00:06:08,675 --> 00:06:10,595 making a blog, just screwing around, 233 00:06:10,595 --> 00:06:11,775 really making a couple of websites 234 00:06:11,785 --> 00:06:14,355 and then sharing it, publishing it out. 235 00:06:14,395 --> 00:06:15,955 And then someone approached me and 236 00:06:15,955 --> 00:06:17,745 said, Hey, my family business needs 237 00:06:17,745 --> 00:06:18,465 a new website. 238 00:06:18,865 --> 00:06:19,975 Can you build it for us? 239 00:06:20,005 --> 00:06:21,215 We'll pay you a thousand bucks. 240 00:06:21,794 --> 00:06:24,014 And my eyes just lit up cause that 241 00:06:24,015 --> 00:06:25,124 was the first time someone had ever 242 00:06:25,124 --> 00:06:27,145 offered me money for something like that. 243 00:06:27,145 --> 00:06:28,885 And I just couldn't believe it, that 244 00:06:28,995 --> 00:06:29,854 people pay for this. 245 00:06:29,885 --> 00:06:31,375 And so that just sent me down this 246 00:06:31,375 --> 00:06:34,135 whole path of building websites. 247 00:06:34,370 --> 00:06:36,470 Later launched, uh, some e 248 00:06:36,470 --> 00:06:37,620 commerce brands. 249 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,530 My first one was unsuccessful 250 00:06:39,530 --> 00:06:41,120 and had a lot of lessons from that. 251 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,320 I can tap into, but the second one, 252 00:06:43,340 --> 00:06:45,829 uh, really took off after lots of years 253 00:06:45,829 --> 00:06:48,330 of perseverance and, um, we were 254 00:06:48,330 --> 00:06:49,400 fortunately able to grow that to 255 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:50,029 eight figures. 256 00:06:50,910 --> 00:06:51,620 Matt Edmundson: That's great, man. 257 00:06:51,750 --> 00:06:52,220 That's great. 258 00:06:52,220 --> 00:06:55,690 I do feel like we connected somehow. 259 00:06:55,690 --> 00:06:57,120 I did accounting at uni, although 260 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,459 I did accounting and law, so they 261 00:06:59,459 --> 00:07:00,450 were quite similar. 262 00:07:01,579 --> 00:07:02,869 I left university and thought, I 263 00:07:02,869 --> 00:07:04,700 never want to be an accountant, ever. 264 00:07:05,679 --> 00:07:07,020 But it's been quite useful 265 00:07:07,020 --> 00:07:08,500 knowledge to have. 266 00:07:08,749 --> 00:07:09,019 Jay Neyer: Absolutely. 267 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:09,490 So 268 00:07:09,579 --> 00:07:10,820 Matt Edmundson: I'm super grateful 269 00:07:10,830 --> 00:07:12,298 for it, and I'm grateful for good 270 00:07:12,298 --> 00:07:13,150 accountants, I really am, but 271 00:07:13,150 --> 00:07:14,110 it was never going to be me. 272 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:14,910 Right. 273 00:07:15,670 --> 00:07:17,360 I read the business books, got into 274 00:07:17,370 --> 00:07:19,290 entrepreneurship and the reason I 275 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,200 got into e commerce was because somebody 276 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:22,100 came to me and said, can you 277 00:07:22,100 --> 00:07:23,000 build me a website? 278 00:07:23,060 --> 00:07:23,740 I'm like, sure. 279 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:24,620 And they said, do you know 280 00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:25,070 how to do it? 281 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,680 I'm like, no, but how hard can it be? 282 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:28,950 Right. 283 00:07:28,950 --> 00:07:30,750 And this was in 1998. 284 00:07:30,819 --> 00:07:33,369 So, uh, here we are, however many years, 285 00:07:33,399 --> 00:07:34,350 almost 30 years. 286 00:07:34,350 --> 00:07:35,830 Geez, is it really that long? 287 00:07:38,980 --> 00:07:40,880 And so I did fascinating, 288 00:07:40,940 --> 00:07:42,250 uh, absolutely fascinating. 289 00:07:42,260 --> 00:07:44,690 So you, you've, uh, you've built 290 00:07:44,690 --> 00:07:45,390 businesses. 291 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:45,820 Some of. 292 00:07:46,710 --> 00:07:48,060 not worked, but one obviously 293 00:07:48,060 --> 00:07:49,240 clearly did work. 294 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:50,960 Um, and you've, you've learned 295 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:51,730 a lot from that. 296 00:07:51,750 --> 00:07:52,890 So let's jump straight into it. 297 00:07:52,900 --> 00:07:56,500 Cause I know, um, I know I'm fascinated 298 00:07:56,500 --> 00:07:58,500 by your insights and stories in this. 299 00:07:58,510 --> 00:08:00,869 So we've got a website. 300 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,050 Um, in fact, I was talking to a couple 301 00:08:05,050 --> 00:08:08,319 today, their company turns over a half 302 00:08:08,319 --> 00:08:08,909 a million a year. 303 00:08:09,189 --> 00:08:11,315 Um, they, they, Um, sell 304 00:08:11,315 --> 00:08:12,075 products online. 305 00:08:12,165 --> 00:08:14,015 They got an econ business sells half 306 00:08:14,015 --> 00:08:14,575 a million on year. 307 00:08:14,575 --> 00:08:15,765 We're looking about do we do an 308 00:08:15,765 --> 00:08:16,855 equity partnership with them? 309 00:08:17,425 --> 00:08:20,505 Um, how do I grow that brand from 310 00:08:20,535 --> 00:08:22,995 its six figures up to eight 311 00:08:22,995 --> 00:08:23,434 figures and more? 312 00:08:23,444 --> 00:08:24,284 Let's jump straight into it. 313 00:08:24,285 --> 00:08:25,604 What's your first thing that we 314 00:08:25,604 --> 00:08:26,135 should think about? 315 00:08:26,729 --> 00:08:27,150 Jay Neyer: Yeah. 316 00:08:27,190 --> 00:08:28,490 First, I just like to look at the 317 00:08:28,490 --> 00:08:30,070 overall economics of the business. 318 00:08:30,099 --> 00:08:31,590 What type of industry is it in? 319 00:08:31,620 --> 00:08:32,600 Is it in a growing and 320 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:33,800 expanding market? 321 00:08:33,830 --> 00:08:35,050 Is it in a contracting? 322 00:08:35,589 --> 00:08:37,359 Um, it's very different strategies 323 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:38,959 when we have price points of items that 324 00:08:38,959 --> 00:08:42,299 are, uh, called like 600 to 1000 bucks 325 00:08:42,340 --> 00:08:44,919 versus it's more of a consumable product 326 00:08:44,919 --> 00:08:47,780 where it's maybe 20, but you're trying to 327 00:08:47,810 --> 00:08:50,010 just build out that that lifetime value. 328 00:08:50,410 --> 00:08:52,080 So one of the very first things I 329 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:53,729 do is just look at the historical 330 00:08:53,740 --> 00:08:54,510 standing of it. 331 00:08:55,020 --> 00:08:56,820 Um, and just the total addressable 332 00:08:56,820 --> 00:08:57,580 market size. 333 00:08:57,610 --> 00:08:58,530 What does that look like? 334 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:00,650 Uh, after that, what I would look at is 335 00:09:00,670 --> 00:09:03,350 how are its current revenue channels. 336 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:04,980 So how's it getting new customers 337 00:09:04,990 --> 00:09:05,640 specifically? 338 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,259 Is that coming from referral, SEO, 339 00:09:08,309 --> 00:09:10,310 paid ads, email? 340 00:09:10,369 --> 00:09:11,849 What is their customer retention 341 00:09:11,849 --> 00:09:12,349 look like? 342 00:09:12,925 --> 00:09:15,395 Um, and then really typically the main 343 00:09:15,405 --> 00:09:16,825 growth magnets are going to be 344 00:09:16,875 --> 00:09:19,285 the paid ads, SEO front, uh, working 345 00:09:19,285 --> 00:09:20,295 with influencers. 346 00:09:20,335 --> 00:09:21,245 We can dive into some of 347 00:09:21,245 --> 00:09:21,854 that in a bit. 348 00:09:22,355 --> 00:09:23,865 Um, but if those economics are 349 00:09:23,865 --> 00:09:25,504 positive, like I, what I often find 350 00:09:25,505 --> 00:09:26,825 is many business owners just don't 351 00:09:26,825 --> 00:09:28,644 know their numbers in terms of like, 352 00:09:28,654 --> 00:09:30,434 what is, what is the max we can acquire 353 00:09:30,435 --> 00:09:32,925 a customer against the AOB versus LTV. 354 00:09:33,395 --> 00:09:34,575 Um, and if they really know those 355 00:09:34,595 --> 00:09:36,615 numbers and it can help determine 356 00:09:36,625 --> 00:09:37,715 just how aggressive you want to get 357 00:09:37,725 --> 00:09:38,355 with scaling. 358 00:09:38,895 --> 00:09:40,845 Um, we have some accounts where they 359 00:09:40,845 --> 00:09:42,765 just have insane lifetime value from 360 00:09:42,815 --> 00:09:44,915 a single customer and, you know, 361 00:09:44,915 --> 00:09:46,975 we've been acquiring customers for say 362 00:09:46,975 --> 00:09:49,295 that lifetime value is 250 and we're 363 00:09:49,355 --> 00:09:52,205 acquiring customers for 18 and like, I'm 364 00:09:52,205 --> 00:09:54,105 telling you, like turn up the gas, 365 00:09:54,134 --> 00:09:56,074 put more fuel in people, just, you 366 00:09:56,074 --> 00:09:56,935 know, apprehension. 367 00:09:56,935 --> 00:09:59,035 So you'd be surprised, like, I 368 00:09:59,045 --> 00:10:01,375 think just, I, I'm kind of numb to. 369 00:10:01,995 --> 00:10:03,645 Uh, or I guess I just have less 370 00:10:03,715 --> 00:10:05,555 emotional investment because oftentimes 371 00:10:05,555 --> 00:10:06,775 this is like someone's precious 372 00:10:06,775 --> 00:10:08,655 baby that they're trying to care for. 373 00:10:08,655 --> 00:10:10,514 I'm like, Hey, I, I can't do anything 374 00:10:10,514 --> 00:10:11,964 to potentially put in a position 375 00:10:11,964 --> 00:10:12,495 of jeopardy. 376 00:10:12,495 --> 00:10:13,324 And I totally get that. 377 00:10:13,324 --> 00:10:15,665 But, um, the nice thing about my 378 00:10:15,775 --> 00:10:17,794 perspective has just been from just, you 379 00:10:17,794 --> 00:10:19,514 know, comes down to a spreadsheet at 380 00:10:19,515 --> 00:10:20,075 the end of the day. 381 00:10:20,075 --> 00:10:20,935 And if you know those numbers, 382 00:10:20,935 --> 00:10:22,895 you can turn those knobs dial it up 383 00:10:22,895 --> 00:10:25,025 and just get the whole machine, uh, 384 00:10:25,104 --> 00:10:25,994 producing more. 385 00:10:26,595 --> 00:10:28,095 Um, and then on the backend. 386 00:10:28,095 --> 00:10:29,135 So I'd say that's typically like 387 00:10:29,135 --> 00:10:30,425 more of the front end top, top. 388 00:10:30,655 --> 00:10:31,795 piece of the funnel of the 389 00:10:31,795 --> 00:10:33,665 growth engine, more middle funnel. 390 00:10:33,665 --> 00:10:35,175 I'd start looking in terms of like 391 00:10:35,204 --> 00:10:37,555 the, the website CRO, how's the 392 00:10:37,555 --> 00:10:38,415 conversion rate? 393 00:10:38,795 --> 00:10:42,095 Um, what is that, uh, bounce rates and 394 00:10:42,095 --> 00:10:42,864 things like that. 395 00:10:43,334 --> 00:10:45,015 Um, I would also be looking at their 396 00:10:45,025 --> 00:10:46,135 email performance. 397 00:10:46,214 --> 00:10:48,134 Generally, we look to have a benchmark 398 00:10:48,145 --> 00:10:50,645 of email doing 25 percent of total 399 00:10:50,645 --> 00:10:51,395 store revenue. 400 00:10:51,885 --> 00:10:52,064 Matt Edmundson: So 401 00:10:52,324 --> 00:10:53,165 Jay Neyer: in your case, if you 402 00:10:53,165 --> 00:10:53,855 guys are doing. 403 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:55,500 Uh, half a million. 404 00:10:55,540 --> 00:10:56,890 I'd be looking to see that email is 405 00:10:56,890 --> 00:10:59,010 doing at least 25 percent of that. 406 00:10:59,050 --> 00:11:00,870 If it's not, chances are, it's probably 407 00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:01,770 under optimized. 408 00:11:02,359 --> 00:11:04,760 Um, and yeah, just going through that 409 00:11:04,780 --> 00:11:06,450 kind of complete audit and then 410 00:11:06,450 --> 00:11:08,149 figure out what are, what's, what, 411 00:11:08,180 --> 00:11:10,580 what pain points, where can we massage 412 00:11:10,589 --> 00:11:11,929 friction out of the system to probably 413 00:11:11,929 --> 00:11:14,990 get the most return on, um, time or 414 00:11:15,010 --> 00:11:15,890 capital invested. 415 00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:17,490 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's 416 00:11:17,490 --> 00:11:18,130 a long list. 417 00:11:18,130 --> 00:11:19,300 I wish she's great. 418 00:11:19,370 --> 00:11:20,310 Um, thank you. 419 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:21,980 I've been hearing, um, 420 00:11:24,235 --> 00:11:27,775 Uh, the, the fray, maybe it's just me, 421 00:11:27,785 --> 00:11:29,955 maybe I've just been out of the wrong, 422 00:11:29,965 --> 00:11:31,315 the right circles for a little while. 423 00:11:31,315 --> 00:11:33,965 But more recently I have heard people 424 00:11:33,965 --> 00:11:38,874 talk about Tam than I have, maybe in 425 00:11:38,874 --> 00:11:40,164 the last two months I've heard people 426 00:11:40,164 --> 00:11:43,004 talk about that more than I have in 427 00:11:43,005 --> 00:11:44,084 the last six years. 428 00:11:44,124 --> 00:11:45,485 I don't, I don't know if this is 429 00:11:45,485 --> 00:11:48,065 just me, uh, or whether this is 430 00:11:48,065 --> 00:11:49,645 something that has come out of it, but 431 00:11:49,645 --> 00:11:50,855 you mentioned that and I was kind of 432 00:11:50,855 --> 00:11:51,745 curious as to why. 433 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:53,600 Jay Neyer: Uh, I find it 434 00:11:53,610 --> 00:11:55,180 very relevant specifically if I'm 435 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,370 calculating like SEO or even paid 436 00:11:58,390 --> 00:11:59,150 ads for that matter. 437 00:11:59,150 --> 00:12:00,520 If like, I'm trying to just get a sense 438 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,530 how much global search, so if I'm 439 00:12:02,530 --> 00:12:03,390 trying to capture. 440 00:12:03,695 --> 00:12:05,605 Whatever percent of a specific 441 00:12:05,605 --> 00:12:07,115 keyword or phrase that has a lot of 442 00:12:07,115 --> 00:12:07,955 purchase intent. 443 00:12:08,595 --> 00:12:09,655 I want to see how many people are 444 00:12:09,655 --> 00:12:10,425 looking for that. 445 00:12:10,435 --> 00:12:12,585 So like insurance in the U S is 446 00:12:12,585 --> 00:12:14,554 one of the most competitive keywords 447 00:12:14,554 --> 00:12:15,714 that's going to have way more 448 00:12:16,235 --> 00:12:18,765 competition than Cincinnati plumber, 449 00:12:18,785 --> 00:12:19,315 for example. 450 00:12:20,024 --> 00:12:21,814 And so just getting a sense of how many 451 00:12:21,815 --> 00:12:23,025 people are actually looking for the 452 00:12:23,025 --> 00:12:24,655 specific service or product is going to 453 00:12:24,665 --> 00:12:25,655 give you a sense of. 454 00:12:26,075 --> 00:12:28,665 How much ceiling is there for really 455 00:12:28,665 --> 00:12:29,665 scaling and growing? 456 00:12:30,165 --> 00:12:32,105 Um, and it's, it's more so also just 457 00:12:32,105 --> 00:12:35,135 see directional, uh, growth. 458 00:12:35,205 --> 00:12:37,045 So I look for growing industries 459 00:12:37,045 --> 00:12:38,294 or collapsing industries. 460 00:12:38,605 --> 00:12:40,594 So like, Hey, newspapers, physical 461 00:12:40,594 --> 00:12:42,004 print is probably not an industry I 462 00:12:42,004 --> 00:12:43,315 want to be investing a lot in right 463 00:12:43,315 --> 00:12:46,384 now, but maybe digital collectibles 464 00:12:46,574 --> 00:12:47,614 or other things where I see 465 00:12:47,614 --> 00:12:48,714 market expansion. 466 00:12:49,044 --> 00:12:51,015 It's really easy to just, you know, 467 00:12:51,055 --> 00:12:53,235 ride a wave that's carrying you forward 468 00:12:53,245 --> 00:12:55,015 versus trying to row a canoe upstream. 469 00:12:55,490 --> 00:12:57,230 Um, and, and that happens with 470 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:58,730 business owners that we consult with. 471 00:12:58,740 --> 00:13:00,520 So, you know, we can quickly, 472 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,390 easily identify, is this a growing or 473 00:13:02,420 --> 00:13:03,460 contracting market? 474 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:04,890 And when it's growing, it just 475 00:13:04,890 --> 00:13:06,449 makes it a lot easier for us to 476 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,360 do our jobs and position them well 477 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,480 versus, Hey, we have a full team trying 478 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,379 to paddle a canoe upstream for you. 479 00:13:12,769 --> 00:13:14,939 And we can probably make some 480 00:13:14,939 --> 00:13:16,520 distance and some performance, but at 481 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,510 the end of the day, we're, we're still 482 00:13:18,510 --> 00:13:19,370 rowing upstream. 483 00:13:19,370 --> 00:13:20,450 And so there's only so far we 484 00:13:20,450 --> 00:13:21,130 can get with that. 485 00:13:21,130 --> 00:13:23,340 So I find that very helpful for just. 486 00:13:23,815 --> 00:13:25,065 Getting sense of direction 487 00:13:26,265 --> 00:13:27,825 Matt Edmundson: like it can be a 488 00:13:27,825 --> 00:13:29,735 simple case of I like what you said 489 00:13:29,775 --> 00:13:31,605 there, Jay, about just going to Google 490 00:13:31,605 --> 00:13:33,255 and typing stuff in and seeing what 491 00:13:33,284 --> 00:13:34,895 the search volume is on something 492 00:13:34,965 --> 00:13:36,385 to give you some sort of idea. 493 00:13:36,385 --> 00:13:37,905 I mean, obviously, you can research it 494 00:13:37,915 --> 00:13:39,145 further and get more accurate figures 495 00:13:39,145 --> 00:13:41,414 on the market size, but, um. 496 00:13:43,675 --> 00:13:45,465 It's a, it's a, it doesn't have 497 00:13:45,465 --> 00:13:48,064 to be massively complicated to 498 00:13:48,064 --> 00:13:49,074 give you some kind of insight, 499 00:13:49,074 --> 00:13:49,594 which I like 500 00:13:50,655 --> 00:13:51,765 Jay Neyer: to give you more specifics. 501 00:13:51,765 --> 00:13:53,645 We typically use like a trust 502 00:13:53,705 --> 00:13:56,614 keyword, get a mapping of how 503 00:13:56,615 --> 00:13:59,204 much search volume keyword difficulty 504 00:13:59,445 --> 00:14:01,115 also using the Google ad planner. 505 00:14:01,134 --> 00:14:02,514 So, I mean, honestly, just 506 00:14:02,515 --> 00:14:03,835 between both those tools, you can get 507 00:14:03,835 --> 00:14:05,515 enough information if you feed in like 508 00:14:05,645 --> 00:14:06,415 a good list of. 509 00:14:06,900 --> 00:14:08,330 of keywords or phrases that we 510 00:14:08,330 --> 00:14:10,340 want to, those tools will summarize very 511 00:14:10,340 --> 00:14:11,360 effectively for you. 512 00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:13,300 How much monthly searches, even 513 00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:14,370 if you're just doing that monthly 514 00:14:14,370 --> 00:14:17,049 searches and keyword difficulty, um, you 515 00:14:17,050 --> 00:14:18,069 can get a sense of like, where does 516 00:14:18,070 --> 00:14:20,320 it make sense to direct my attention 517 00:14:20,339 --> 00:14:20,790 and efforts. 518 00:14:21,970 --> 00:14:23,069 Matt Edmundson: And do you find yourself 519 00:14:23,069 --> 00:14:24,410 just predominantly looking at, say, 520 00:14:24,410 --> 00:14:26,640 keyword searches in the States? 521 00:14:26,839 --> 00:14:29,190 Um, or are you looking at all 522 00:14:29,190 --> 00:14:30,590 the countries that you're selling in or 523 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:31,590 potentially selling in, I suppose? 524 00:14:32,345 --> 00:14:33,475 Jay Neyer: Yeah, we know we look across 525 00:14:33,475 --> 00:14:35,435 the board, majority of our clients 526 00:14:35,435 --> 00:14:37,195 are U. S. based, but we have plenty 527 00:14:37,195 --> 00:14:37,975 international. 528 00:14:38,025 --> 00:14:39,165 We have some, you know, 529 00:14:39,255 --> 00:14:40,055 throughout Europe. 530 00:14:40,184 --> 00:14:41,875 Uh, I'm also really into 531 00:14:41,875 --> 00:14:42,975 languages myself. 532 00:14:43,014 --> 00:14:46,124 So, uh, the volume from those is also 533 00:14:46,324 --> 00:14:47,165 pretty noteworthy. 534 00:14:47,185 --> 00:14:48,924 So Spanish speaking markets, even in the 535 00:14:48,925 --> 00:14:51,094 U. S. The Spanish speaking market is 536 00:14:51,115 --> 00:14:51,794 pretty significant. 537 00:14:51,934 --> 00:14:54,275 And I think Expected to be at least 50 538 00:14:54,275 --> 00:14:57,275 percent by 2050 or I'm not sure 539 00:14:57,275 --> 00:14:58,665 the exact year, but it's, uh, 540 00:14:58,665 --> 00:15:00,225 it's an important demographic as well. 541 00:15:00,225 --> 00:15:02,034 So, um, I would pay attention 542 00:15:02,035 --> 00:15:02,745 to both of them. 543 00:15:02,865 --> 00:15:04,584 Um, but it really just depends 544 00:15:04,584 --> 00:15:05,555 on where you can service 545 00:15:05,564 --> 00:15:06,094 your clients. 546 00:15:06,094 --> 00:15:07,555 And sometimes you might have logistics 547 00:15:07,555 --> 00:15:09,524 of like, Hey, we'd love to be able to 548 00:15:09,635 --> 00:15:12,065 fulfill to people in the EU, but we 549 00:15:12,065 --> 00:15:13,265 just don't have a warehouse there. 550 00:15:13,265 --> 00:15:15,025 And for us to fulfill a single 551 00:15:15,425 --> 00:15:17,065 unitary order, the economics of it just 552 00:15:17,065 --> 00:15:17,725 don't make sense. 553 00:15:17,725 --> 00:15:20,775 So, um, it can apply in both contexts. 554 00:15:21,130 --> 00:15:21,770 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, 555 00:15:21,780 --> 00:15:22,230 fair enough. 556 00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:23,040 And of course, if you don't have a 557 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,960 warehouse in Europe, give us a ring. 558 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,240 We've got one in the UK. 559 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,730 Anyway, um, do you, switching back to 560 00:15:30,730 --> 00:15:32,270 what you mentioned a second ago about 561 00:15:32,420 --> 00:15:33,600 you love languages. 562 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,289 It said here in your little research 563 00:15:36,290 --> 00:15:37,430 that you're a polygot, which I 564 00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:39,729 think is one of the best words around. 565 00:15:39,729 --> 00:15:40,730 I just think it's just such a 566 00:15:40,740 --> 00:15:42,270 great word, but you can, you can 567 00:15:42,270 --> 00:15:43,800 obviously speak multiple languages. 568 00:15:45,070 --> 00:15:46,520 How important is it for e 569 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,020 commerce sites? 570 00:15:48,250 --> 00:15:50,240 So, for example, I'm a U. S. website, 571 00:15:51,330 --> 00:15:55,040 um, obviously there is a lot of Spanish 572 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:56,680 speaking, and certainly in certain 573 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,530 parts of the U. S., like I was in Miami 574 00:15:58,530 --> 00:16:01,230 a few, a few months ago, and actually I 575 00:16:01,230 --> 00:16:02,920 was, I was surprised because I've not 576 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:04,160 been to Miami for a long time and 577 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,819 I was surprised how little English 578 00:16:06,819 --> 00:16:08,100 was spoken and how much everything 579 00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:08,780 was Spanish. 580 00:16:08,810 --> 00:16:11,220 I don't know why, I just, it just 581 00:16:11,569 --> 00:16:12,240 was what it was. 582 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,949 Um, how important is it then to 583 00:16:16,979 --> 00:16:18,819 think about or look at, say, 584 00:16:18,819 --> 00:16:19,799 multilingual sites? 585 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,359 Would you do an English version and 586 00:16:21,359 --> 00:16:22,319 a Spanish version? 587 00:16:22,430 --> 00:16:24,150 Um, or do you just focus on English 588 00:16:24,219 --> 00:16:26,160 and think actually everybody can copy, 589 00:16:26,189 --> 00:16:27,959 paste and put it into ChatGPT for 590 00:16:27,959 --> 00:16:28,650 the translation? 591 00:16:29,115 --> 00:16:29,755 Jay Neyer: It definitely starts 592 00:16:29,755 --> 00:16:30,665 with English first. 593 00:16:30,695 --> 00:16:31,975 It will make a difference of like 594 00:16:31,975 --> 00:16:33,525 somewhere like Miami is probably gonna be 595 00:16:33,525 --> 00:16:35,015 more, that's going to be more of the 596 00:16:35,015 --> 00:16:37,045 case than somewhere like Minnesota, 597 00:16:37,635 --> 00:16:38,225 for example. 598 00:16:38,374 --> 00:16:40,555 Um, but in general it's like, Hey, 599 00:16:40,555 --> 00:16:41,995 why would we not want to have 600 00:16:42,055 --> 00:16:43,954 more keywords and potential volume? 601 00:16:44,045 --> 00:16:45,404 Like, is there anything that 602 00:16:45,405 --> 00:16:47,324 would impede this product from being 603 00:16:47,325 --> 00:16:48,815 sold to someone who speaks and 604 00:16:49,105 --> 00:16:51,065 feels more natively comfortable in a 605 00:16:51,065 --> 00:16:51,835 different language? 606 00:16:51,835 --> 00:16:53,475 Like very rarely is that the case. 607 00:16:53,815 --> 00:16:55,865 So, uh, it's always going to be a value 608 00:16:55,865 --> 00:16:56,695 add, I would say. 609 00:16:57,190 --> 00:16:58,580 Is it going to be the most value add 610 00:16:58,580 --> 00:17:00,130 compared to, uh, you know, your list 611 00:17:00,130 --> 00:17:01,660 of 10 or 20 other things you could 612 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,079 be focusing on, you know, that could be 613 00:17:03,079 --> 00:17:03,990 subject for debate. 614 00:17:04,349 --> 00:17:05,839 Um, but I would say when in doubt, 615 00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:07,279 like it's, it's, it's definitely 616 00:17:07,279 --> 00:17:09,289 a value item in my experience and 617 00:17:09,339 --> 00:17:10,489 can potentially also just help 618 00:17:10,540 --> 00:17:11,809 unlock other different keywords 619 00:17:11,809 --> 00:17:12,520 or phrases that. 620 00:17:13,074 --> 00:17:14,655 Um, otherwise you wouldn't be able 621 00:17:14,655 --> 00:17:15,625 to optimize around. 622 00:17:16,824 --> 00:17:17,385 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's an 623 00:17:17,385 --> 00:17:18,554 interesting, it's quite 624 00:17:18,554 --> 00:17:19,814 timely actually, because one of 625 00:17:19,814 --> 00:17:21,165 our companies, which does sell 626 00:17:21,165 --> 00:17:25,925 into continental Europe, um, we're 627 00:17:25,925 --> 00:17:29,064 to, we're now looking at getting, 628 00:17:29,074 --> 00:17:30,804 say, the labels of the product 629 00:17:30,814 --> 00:17:32,634 translated into French, possibly 630 00:17:32,725 --> 00:17:33,674 French, German. 631 00:17:34,405 --> 00:17:37,270 Um, And seeing if that has an 632 00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:38,199 impact on things. 633 00:17:38,370 --> 00:17:40,070 Uh, and so this whole language and 634 00:17:40,090 --> 00:17:44,159 translation and, um, understanding search 635 00:17:44,189 --> 00:17:45,899 terms in German are going to be very 636 00:17:45,899 --> 00:17:47,729 different to search terms in English. 637 00:17:47,810 --> 00:17:48,899 Uh, but understanding what 638 00:17:48,899 --> 00:17:51,369 they are is, uh, that's a skill 639 00:17:51,369 --> 00:17:52,070 in its own right. 640 00:17:52,334 --> 00:17:52,564 Right. 641 00:17:52,564 --> 00:17:55,195 I mean, you've got to have a good 642 00:17:55,195 --> 00:17:56,374 grasp of things going on there. 643 00:17:57,134 --> 00:18:00,284 So you've, you've sort of, you've, 644 00:18:00,294 --> 00:18:01,324 you've given your list, so you 645 00:18:01,324 --> 00:18:02,164 take an overview. 646 00:18:02,174 --> 00:18:03,924 You're looking at, you know, is 647 00:18:03,924 --> 00:18:05,554 this growing, is this expanding? 648 00:18:05,965 --> 00:18:07,164 So let's assume we're in an 649 00:18:07,164 --> 00:18:08,165 expanding industry. 650 00:18:08,195 --> 00:18:09,175 It's a growing market. 651 00:18:09,244 --> 00:18:11,084 The company, the company that I 652 00:18:11,084 --> 00:18:13,274 spoke to earlier, um, I won't mention 653 00:18:13,274 --> 00:18:14,955 their name or their industry because if 654 00:18:14,955 --> 00:18:16,495 they're listening, I've not got their 655 00:18:16,495 --> 00:18:17,735 permission to share their story. 656 00:18:17,745 --> 00:18:19,594 But, uh, you know, if I did, I would 657 00:18:19,594 --> 00:18:24,409 quietly say, um, They are in, I would 658 00:18:24,409 --> 00:18:26,839 say, a very fast growing market. 659 00:18:27,249 --> 00:18:29,549 Um, but it's quite a, I say fast 660 00:18:29,549 --> 00:18:30,429 growing market, I think it's 661 00:18:30,439 --> 00:18:32,049 more of a very established market. 662 00:18:32,279 --> 00:18:33,729 It's a very big, sort of, 663 00:18:33,739 --> 00:18:34,509 niche space. 664 00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:37,939 Um, they've stagnated for 665 00:18:37,939 --> 00:18:38,439 two years. 666 00:18:38,439 --> 00:18:39,839 They've not, sort of, grown, 667 00:18:40,219 --> 00:18:41,779 uh, in any way. 668 00:18:42,449 --> 00:18:44,149 Um, their profit isn't, they, so 669 00:18:44,149 --> 00:18:45,929 they focused more on profitability 670 00:18:45,929 --> 00:18:47,620 than new customer acquisition. 671 00:18:48,455 --> 00:18:49,824 Um, which I thought was an 672 00:18:49,824 --> 00:18:50,804 interesting choice. 673 00:18:51,125 --> 00:18:54,264 Uh, so that's sort of them. 674 00:18:54,274 --> 00:18:54,945 I don't know if you want to 675 00:18:54,945 --> 00:18:56,064 throw anything else in there. 676 00:18:56,165 --> 00:18:57,334 I appreciate the limited data. 677 00:18:59,140 --> 00:19:01,360 Jay Neyer: Uh, so like roughly what 678 00:19:01,379 --> 00:19:03,070 type of average order value 679 00:19:03,220 --> 00:19:03,610 would you say 680 00:19:04,530 --> 00:19:05,320 Matt Edmundson: about 30 U. 681 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:05,990 S. Dollars. 682 00:19:06,570 --> 00:19:06,860 Jay Neyer: Okay. 683 00:19:06,929 --> 00:19:08,120 And is this a consumable or 684 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,080 something you would have a repeat usage 685 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,389 or what would that LTV look like? 686 00:19:11,879 --> 00:19:13,889 Matt Edmundson: Well, the in an 687 00:19:13,889 --> 00:19:15,019 interesting question because they 688 00:19:15,019 --> 00:19:16,189 didn't actually know what their 689 00:19:16,189 --> 00:19:17,180 lifetime value was. 690 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:18,459 Um, of a customer. 691 00:19:18,519 --> 00:19:19,790 So going back to your earlier point 692 00:19:19,790 --> 00:19:22,379 of customers, not People not actually 693 00:19:22,379 --> 00:19:24,639 knowing their data, which I find 694 00:19:24,639 --> 00:19:25,909 intriguing because I'm like, well, this 695 00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:27,429 has got to be one of the first questions 696 00:19:27,429 --> 00:19:28,600 I'd like to know the answer to. 697 00:19:29,090 --> 00:19:29,929 So they're looking at that. 698 00:19:29,929 --> 00:19:31,329 Now I'm going to suggest their 699 00:19:31,330 --> 00:19:32,679 lifetime value is probably 700 00:19:32,679 --> 00:19:33,610 around 70 bucks. 701 00:19:33,999 --> 00:19:39,090 And I think they, um, they have about 702 00:19:39,090 --> 00:19:43,320 a 25 percent return customer rate. 703 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:44,780 So 25 percent of the customers come 704 00:19:44,780 --> 00:19:46,230 back and buy for a second time. 705 00:19:46,645 --> 00:19:46,945 Jay Neyer: Okay. 706 00:19:47,024 --> 00:19:48,125 And then last question for the 707 00:19:48,125 --> 00:19:51,534 sales that they are getting, um, do you 708 00:19:51,534 --> 00:19:52,675 know, break down what channels are 709 00:19:52,675 --> 00:19:53,145 this coming from? 710 00:19:53,145 --> 00:19:54,574 Paid ads, search. 711 00:19:54,615 --> 00:19:55,284 95 712 00:19:55,324 --> 00:19:56,365 Matt Edmundson: percent is coming 713 00:19:56,365 --> 00:19:58,844 from paid meta ads. 714 00:19:59,524 --> 00:20:00,465 Jay Neyer: 95%. 715 00:20:00,474 --> 00:20:00,654 Okay. 716 00:20:00,884 --> 00:20:02,705 So not like Google that egg hasn't 717 00:20:02,705 --> 00:20:03,264 cracked yet. 718 00:20:03,885 --> 00:20:04,115 Matt Edmundson: No. 719 00:20:04,164 --> 00:20:04,804 Well, yeah. 720 00:20:04,805 --> 00:20:06,114 Jay Neyer: Step number one 721 00:20:06,114 --> 00:20:07,574 is definitely the LTV piece. 722 00:20:07,655 --> 00:20:09,284 And even if you want to, like, those are 723 00:20:09,284 --> 00:20:10,985 pretty different numbers between 724 00:20:10,985 --> 00:20:13,284 that 30 and 70. 725 00:20:13,284 --> 00:20:15,094 Um, like that just highlights some of 726 00:20:15,114 --> 00:20:18,909 the main differences between, um, Like 727 00:20:18,919 --> 00:20:20,580 looking at it from the LTV versus the 728 00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:23,439 AOV standpoint, because 30 is like, 729 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:25,180 you're, you're going to have, 730 00:20:25,530 --> 00:20:26,790 you're going to have a tough time 731 00:20:26,829 --> 00:20:28,109 regardless, just because of that 732 00:20:28,110 --> 00:20:29,090 lower price point. 733 00:20:29,230 --> 00:20:30,720 So I will also look to see what we could 734 00:20:30,730 --> 00:20:33,359 do to raise that AOV to whether bundle 735 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,180 more items, increase the perceived value, 736 00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:39,389 even if it's digital add ons or other 737 00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:41,530 guides or whatever things to just 738 00:20:41,540 --> 00:20:43,080 improve the overall value, because. 739 00:20:43,550 --> 00:20:45,429 CPMs, even for like really good 740 00:20:45,429 --> 00:20:47,129 accounts, I would say if we're a 741 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:48,929 20 is a pretty good benchmark. 742 00:20:48,959 --> 00:20:50,509 So just the cost of advertising 743 00:20:50,530 --> 00:20:52,540 for a thousand impressions, like 744 00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:54,149 you're already going to be eating 745 00:20:54,149 --> 00:20:57,110 into that 30, um, acquisition 746 00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:57,990 pretty quickly. 747 00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:59,849 And so it's kind of like, I'm guessing 748 00:20:59,849 --> 00:21:01,109 probably why they haven't scaled 749 00:21:01,109 --> 00:21:03,169 is because they have the top out 750 00:21:03,179 --> 00:21:04,470 for the ad spend of what they're 751 00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:06,810 willing to go relatively capped. 752 00:21:07,344 --> 00:21:10,205 And honestly, based on those numbers, 753 00:21:10,235 --> 00:21:11,875 I would say it's probably higher 754 00:21:12,575 --> 00:21:14,765 at the 25 percent because if it's 755 00:21:14,795 --> 00:21:17,255 30 average order, and we call it 70, 756 00:21:17,284 --> 00:21:18,175 that means like 2. 757 00:21:18,185 --> 00:21:20,665 1, 2. 1 or 2. 758 00:21:21,335 --> 00:21:23,945 3, 2. 2 in that range, in terms of 759 00:21:23,964 --> 00:21:25,674 orders per customer. 760 00:21:26,205 --> 00:21:27,665 And I, I, they should ideally look 761 00:21:27,665 --> 00:21:31,535 at that on like a, uh, a 60 or 90 day 762 00:21:31,545 --> 00:21:32,715 interval, because sometimes where 763 00:21:32,715 --> 00:21:34,604 LTV can screw you off, it's like. 764 00:21:35,074 --> 00:21:36,495 It affects your cash flows a lot, 765 00:21:36,514 --> 00:21:37,735 which I learned from when I was 766 00:21:37,735 --> 00:21:38,995 previously having a business myself. 767 00:21:38,995 --> 00:21:41,235 So you're paying for tomorrow's inventory 768 00:21:41,235 --> 00:21:43,874 with funds today, um, and so you don't 769 00:21:43,874 --> 00:21:46,495 want to be like in a negative cash, 770 00:21:46,845 --> 00:21:47,905 cash cycle crunch. 771 00:21:47,905 --> 00:21:50,444 If you're building on that LTV, but 772 00:21:50,444 --> 00:21:51,644 that capital isn't coming in for 773 00:21:51,644 --> 00:21:53,214 another, you know, if it's, if it's 774 00:21:53,214 --> 00:21:54,845 six months or 12 months instead 775 00:21:54,845 --> 00:21:56,235 of that, and that can get a little 776 00:21:56,235 --> 00:21:57,475 bit more tougher to calculate. 777 00:21:57,504 --> 00:21:57,754 But. 778 00:21:58,189 --> 00:22:00,629 Um, I would say the retention 779 00:22:00,629 --> 00:22:01,449 seems really big. 780 00:22:01,489 --> 00:22:03,249 I would look to at least get 25, 781 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:04,840 even pushing up to 30 percent 782 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:05,540 on the email. 783 00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:07,269 So making sure that they're really 784 00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:08,749 retaining customers as best as they 785 00:22:08,750 --> 00:22:10,250 can, since it seems like it's an item 786 00:22:10,250 --> 00:22:12,559 that people come back and reproduce. 787 00:22:13,079 --> 00:22:15,719 Um, the meta dependency, what I 788 00:22:15,719 --> 00:22:17,920 would do, walk into meta in a second. 789 00:22:17,930 --> 00:22:19,050 What I would do outside of meta 790 00:22:19,050 --> 00:22:20,070 is look at SEO. 791 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:21,889 If they haven't done any specific 792 00:22:21,889 --> 00:22:23,570 strategies, you'd be surprised at 793 00:22:23,570 --> 00:22:24,699 how well that still works. 794 00:22:25,310 --> 00:22:27,680 Um, and then Google ads as well, uh, 795 00:22:27,690 --> 00:22:28,900 very oftentimes. 796 00:22:29,620 --> 00:22:30,769 Without knowing the product, I would 797 00:22:30,769 --> 00:22:32,139 say like, I'd be surprised if they 798 00:22:32,139 --> 00:22:33,870 can't replicate some of those models 799 00:22:33,870 --> 00:22:34,749 over to Google. 800 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:36,949 Um, but getting on the meta side, 801 00:22:36,949 --> 00:22:38,120 cause that seems like where it's 802 00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:40,409 ultimately working and I'm, I'm usually 803 00:22:40,409 --> 00:22:42,059 a fan of going deeper in areas 804 00:22:42,069 --> 00:22:43,689 versus trying to go wider, like 805 00:22:43,839 --> 00:22:44,769 before you've really built out 806 00:22:44,769 --> 00:22:46,939 a channel, I think for many businesses, 807 00:22:46,939 --> 00:22:47,819 it's like, Hey, we don't need to 808 00:22:47,819 --> 00:22:48,459 do more things. 809 00:22:48,459 --> 00:22:50,090 We just need to do the, the handful 810 00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:51,080 of things that we're doing just 811 00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:52,080 exceptionally better. 812 00:22:52,529 --> 00:22:54,320 And so of all the things I'd say, 813 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:55,479 probably going deeper on meta 814 00:22:55,479 --> 00:22:56,979 would really help starting with those 815 00:22:57,019 --> 00:22:59,209 economics would be step number one. 816 00:22:59,709 --> 00:23:01,370 Um, what we've been doing for a 817 00:23:01,370 --> 00:23:02,549 lot of brands that we've been able to 818 00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:04,669 grow up to eight figures is, uh, 819 00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:06,679 doing whitelisting with influencers. 820 00:23:06,709 --> 00:23:09,789 So we're in this age of influencers now 821 00:23:09,789 --> 00:23:12,100 where people just have a much better 822 00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:14,209 relationship with an individual than 823 00:23:14,219 --> 00:23:15,860 like a corporation or a logo. 824 00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:18,129 And many of these businesses are 825 00:23:18,129 --> 00:23:19,610 just going to have frankly, zero 826 00:23:19,610 --> 00:23:20,560 brand recognition. 827 00:23:20,620 --> 00:23:20,949 So. 828 00:23:21,314 --> 00:23:22,725 Where we've had a lot of success 829 00:23:22,725 --> 00:23:24,954 is, um, running these ads through 830 00:23:24,985 --> 00:23:26,694 influencers accounts, and 831 00:23:26,694 --> 00:23:28,144 these can be micro influencers. 832 00:23:28,174 --> 00:23:29,344 We've had people with a thousand 833 00:23:29,344 --> 00:23:30,764 followers, 2000 followers, and 834 00:23:30,764 --> 00:23:31,904 have really great success. 835 00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:34,069 And we've had, you know, notable, 836 00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:37,629 famous people like Joe Rogan or 837 00:23:37,790 --> 00:23:40,610 Gronk, uh, having ads as well. 838 00:23:41,050 --> 00:23:42,149 And those are obviously like very 839 00:23:42,149 --> 00:23:44,069 different calibers in terms of level 840 00:23:44,069 --> 00:23:44,709 of influencer. 841 00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:46,569 But even on the smaller end, we 842 00:23:46,569 --> 00:23:48,600 continuously see that whenever brands 843 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,540 do this, they have better results. 844 00:23:51,109 --> 00:23:52,249 And it's a win, win, win. 845 00:23:52,300 --> 00:23:53,850 It's a win for the brand 846 00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:55,030 because they're getting better 847 00:23:55,090 --> 00:23:56,159 acquisition costs. 848 00:23:56,199 --> 00:23:57,659 You know, their economics on the ad 849 00:23:57,659 --> 00:23:59,930 model makes sense for the influencer. 850 00:23:59,930 --> 00:24:00,880 It's a win for them because the. 851 00:24:01,165 --> 00:24:02,534 The brand is essentially paying 852 00:24:02,544 --> 00:24:03,965 to send traffic to their page. 853 00:24:03,975 --> 00:24:05,345 So like for one of the influencers 854 00:24:05,345 --> 00:24:07,754 I calculated, we had sent them over 855 00:24:07,774 --> 00:24:10,084 18 million, uh, impressions from a 856 00:24:10,084 --> 00:24:13,434 different accounts that they paid 0 on. 857 00:24:13,434 --> 00:24:14,984 So obviously you can imagine a lot 858 00:24:14,984 --> 00:24:16,534 of that converts into followers. 859 00:24:17,565 --> 00:24:18,704 And then hopefully it's a win for the 860 00:24:18,704 --> 00:24:19,454 consumer as well. 861 00:24:19,454 --> 00:24:21,244 Assuming you have a product that people 862 00:24:21,244 --> 00:24:23,605 want and need and, uh, ultimately, 863 00:24:23,875 --> 00:24:24,915 you know, you're, you're providing 864 00:24:24,915 --> 00:24:26,095 your service by getting it to them 865 00:24:26,095 --> 00:24:28,050 at a. Uh, and more economies of scale. 866 00:24:28,050 --> 00:24:31,710 So we'll oftentimes do more whitelisting 867 00:24:31,710 --> 00:24:34,149 at, um, on the ad creative side. 868 00:24:35,010 --> 00:24:36,610 And then on the landing page side, 869 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,250 what we've been doing lately is 870 00:24:38,250 --> 00:24:39,590 having specific landing page 871 00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:42,679 funnels, uh, carry off of 872 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:43,449 that influencer. 873 00:24:43,460 --> 00:24:45,249 So I'll give you an example of that. 874 00:24:45,249 --> 00:24:47,050 We had an account where we had all 875 00:24:47,050 --> 00:24:49,660 the ad creative specific, um, with 876 00:24:49,660 --> 00:24:50,610 an influencer, and then you 877 00:24:50,610 --> 00:24:51,810 come to that page and, Oh, it's 878 00:24:51,810 --> 00:24:52,630 the same person. 879 00:24:53,854 --> 00:24:55,124 So you just have a consistency of 880 00:24:55,124 --> 00:24:56,474 that buying funnel that's worked 881 00:24:56,474 --> 00:24:59,024 really well, um, for top of funnels. 882 00:24:59,024 --> 00:25:02,215 Also, I'd say like doing listicle type 883 00:25:02,215 --> 00:25:04,655 of content of having a landing page that, 884 00:25:05,094 --> 00:25:06,474 um, especially if you have an item 885 00:25:06,474 --> 00:25:08,114 that's less of a commodity and you 886 00:25:08,114 --> 00:25:09,694 need to do a lot more education on. 887 00:25:10,139 --> 00:25:11,470 Uh, I'll give you the example of 888 00:25:11,470 --> 00:25:13,440 like, maybe, maybe you're selling a 889 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:14,640 sleep supplement. 890 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:15,800 You want to help someone get 891 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:16,430 better sleep. 892 00:25:16,830 --> 00:25:18,550 What we do is put together a guide. 893 00:25:18,550 --> 00:25:20,699 Here are the top five recommended 894 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,129 neuroscience, uh, tips for getting 895 00:25:23,139 --> 00:25:23,699 better sleep. 896 00:25:24,210 --> 00:25:25,829 And maybe three or four of them 897 00:25:25,829 --> 00:25:28,139 will be like peer reviewed articles 898 00:25:28,139 --> 00:25:29,410 or things pointing back to doctors 899 00:25:29,410 --> 00:25:30,159 and medical advice. 900 00:25:30,169 --> 00:25:31,979 And then maybe we'll slip one item 901 00:25:31,979 --> 00:25:33,739 in that's about their product or 902 00:25:33,739 --> 00:25:35,099 service that's being offered. 903 00:25:35,529 --> 00:25:36,790 So it's, it's kind of going for 904 00:25:36,790 --> 00:25:37,840 a softer sale. 905 00:25:38,169 --> 00:25:39,869 Where you're not like pitching 906 00:25:39,869 --> 00:25:40,999 directly your product, but just 907 00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:42,599 educating on a subject or a pain 908 00:25:42,599 --> 00:25:44,179 point that they have, and then 909 00:25:44,179 --> 00:25:45,629 introducing your product as part 910 00:25:45,629 --> 00:25:46,429 of that solution. 911 00:25:46,629 --> 00:25:47,729 So we see that work really well 912 00:25:47,729 --> 00:25:48,600 for top of funnel. 913 00:25:48,979 --> 00:25:50,149 And then going down to the bottom 914 00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:51,289 of the funnel, it's honestly just 915 00:25:51,289 --> 00:25:53,479 like static images still work great. 916 00:25:53,509 --> 00:25:55,339 Like we, people often jump straight 917 00:25:55,349 --> 00:25:57,249 to video, but we see like images 918 00:25:57,249 --> 00:25:59,079 really work really well for that 919 00:25:59,339 --> 00:26:01,969 reconversion, just product shots, maybe 920 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,100 testimony or feature feature a call out. 921 00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:06,820 And those, those still do wonders. 922 00:26:08,225 --> 00:26:08,855 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, they do. 923 00:26:09,065 --> 00:26:11,544 Uh, I, I can attest the images are still 924 00:26:11,544 --> 00:26:12,175 doing very well. 925 00:26:12,665 --> 00:26:14,804 Um, I'm, I'm curious again. 926 00:26:14,825 --> 00:26:16,585 I've got lots of notes here, Jay. 927 00:26:16,614 --> 00:26:17,965 So I, I'm going to pick on the, 928 00:26:18,024 --> 00:26:20,125 the first thing that stands out. 929 00:26:20,125 --> 00:26:24,350 So talk us through the, Influence, 930 00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:25,919 uh, thing a little bit more. 931 00:26:25,919 --> 00:26:27,449 So more and more people are talking 932 00:26:27,449 --> 00:26:27,870 about this. 933 00:26:27,870 --> 00:26:29,909 I was just on LinkedIn earlier, 934 00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:31,389 and Jordan Wester just posted. 935 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,160 Jordan Wester, previous guest. 936 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:34,180 I don't know if you know Jordan. 937 00:26:34,770 --> 00:26:36,389 Really interesting guy about 938 00:26:36,389 --> 00:26:37,170 social commerce. 939 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,809 And he was, he was posting 940 00:26:39,809 --> 00:26:41,589 about influence marketing, as has 941 00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:42,180 Jordan's been. 942 00:26:42,530 --> 00:26:47,264 And he He was waxing lyrical about it and 943 00:26:47,274 --> 00:26:48,534 more and more people are, especially 944 00:26:48,534 --> 00:26:50,274 with the way social commerce is now 945 00:26:50,274 --> 00:26:52,075 starting to, it's seemingly starting 946 00:26:52,075 --> 00:26:52,635 to take off. 947 00:26:52,645 --> 00:26:54,974 Finally, we'll see what happens 948 00:26:54,975 --> 00:26:56,205 with tick tock, obviously, in 949 00:26:56,205 --> 00:26:58,814 America, but it seems to be sort 950 00:26:58,814 --> 00:27:00,334 of taken off at least a little bit. 951 00:27:02,104 --> 00:27:04,814 How do you go about finding 952 00:27:04,834 --> 00:27:07,624 and recruiting good influencers? 953 00:27:07,634 --> 00:27:09,215 Is this something you do as 954 00:27:09,215 --> 00:27:10,134 a in house? 955 00:27:10,134 --> 00:27:11,254 Is this something you get 956 00:27:11,254 --> 00:27:11,854 clients to do? 957 00:27:11,854 --> 00:27:13,284 Is this something that you get an 958 00:27:13,284 --> 00:27:14,094 agency to do? 959 00:27:14,094 --> 00:27:15,464 What's your, your tips there? 960 00:27:16,084 --> 00:27:16,465 Jay Neyer: It's a little 961 00:27:16,465 --> 00:27:17,264 blend of both. 962 00:27:17,385 --> 00:27:19,015 Um, there's platforms that 963 00:27:19,015 --> 00:27:20,534 we've utilized in the past too. 964 00:27:21,165 --> 00:27:23,134 Honestly, the best what we've seen, 965 00:27:23,304 --> 00:27:25,375 uh, either working directly ourselves 966 00:27:25,375 --> 00:27:26,554 or with clients that we work with 967 00:27:26,554 --> 00:27:29,545 is just get a VA and spreadsheets 968 00:27:29,575 --> 00:27:30,885 and just direct outreach. 969 00:27:31,374 --> 00:27:33,715 It's very much in the paint, like 970 00:27:33,815 --> 00:27:35,785 just getting into the weeds and 971 00:27:36,385 --> 00:27:38,195 sending out massive messages and trying 972 00:27:38,195 --> 00:27:39,824 to be targeted and engaged with it. 973 00:27:40,330 --> 00:27:41,689 That's frankly what we've seen work 974 00:27:41,689 --> 00:27:43,469 best compared to other platforms 975 00:27:43,469 --> 00:27:45,399 where you've paid to facilitate 976 00:27:45,399 --> 00:27:46,449 those marketplaces. 977 00:27:46,819 --> 00:27:49,039 TikTok and Instagram also 978 00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:50,699 have marketplace for creators. 979 00:27:50,709 --> 00:27:54,379 So I anticipate more tools coming around 980 00:27:54,379 --> 00:27:55,360 that specifically. 981 00:27:55,779 --> 00:27:58,300 Um, the model is still very 982 00:27:58,540 --> 00:28:00,250 nascent and I'd say continuously 983 00:28:00,250 --> 00:28:00,770 growing. 984 00:28:00,810 --> 00:28:01,340 And I think it's. 985 00:28:01,995 --> 00:28:03,685 Even though it's like, there's a lot 986 00:28:03,695 --> 00:28:04,805 already in that, I think we're just 987 00:28:04,805 --> 00:28:06,965 going to see more and more over the 988 00:28:06,965 --> 00:28:09,435 next five years of what I, I predict 989 00:28:09,445 --> 00:28:11,154 that to get even bigger, not less. 990 00:28:11,165 --> 00:28:11,554 Yeah. 991 00:28:11,745 --> 00:28:12,924 That's what, that's like one of the 992 00:28:12,924 --> 00:28:14,334 examples of, I was referring to 993 00:28:14,334 --> 00:28:17,165 of like, what are growing pools versus 994 00:28:17,184 --> 00:28:18,184 shrinking pools. 995 00:28:18,284 --> 00:28:18,664 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 996 00:28:18,734 --> 00:28:21,124 Jay Neyer: Um, and so honestly, 997 00:28:21,124 --> 00:28:23,215 yeah, getting a, getting a VA and. 998 00:28:23,489 --> 00:28:25,659 Going through the DMS is, it's frankly 999 00:28:25,659 --> 00:28:27,139 where we see many brands get that. 1000 00:28:27,509 --> 00:28:28,509 Um, but you also want to make 1001 00:28:28,509 --> 00:28:29,869 sure you have a compelling offer. 1002 00:28:29,879 --> 00:28:31,389 It can point to examples, keep it 1003 00:28:31,389 --> 00:28:32,179 focused on them. 1004 00:28:32,199 --> 00:28:34,229 So again, when we do that, we just 1005 00:28:34,229 --> 00:28:36,889 show like, here's another influencer. 1006 00:28:36,899 --> 00:28:38,740 Here's, here's Brian, for example. 1007 00:28:39,239 --> 00:28:40,929 Here's the numbers of how many millions 1008 00:28:40,929 --> 00:28:42,549 of people we've sent to his profile. 1009 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,689 Oh, yeah, I spent 0 on this. 1010 00:28:44,689 --> 00:28:46,860 So we're giving you free marketing 1011 00:28:46,860 --> 00:28:48,769 so you can have some assets to just 1012 00:28:48,769 --> 00:28:50,559 make it a, a no brainer for them. 1013 00:28:50,995 --> 00:28:53,274 Um, that I think will also, you know, 1014 00:28:53,314 --> 00:28:54,864 you could send the exact same pitch, 1015 00:28:54,864 --> 00:28:56,764 but then you make it more about them, you 1016 00:28:56,764 --> 00:28:59,384 get significantly sign up rates versus 1017 00:28:59,384 --> 00:29:00,834 before, like, Hey, we want to do this 1018 00:29:01,424 --> 00:29:02,504 confusing thing that you don't 1019 00:29:02,504 --> 00:29:03,844 fully understand, you know, like 1020 00:29:03,845 --> 00:29:05,955 I found so much message of what you 1021 00:29:05,955 --> 00:29:08,464 sent sent to the prospect in mind. 1022 00:29:08,464 --> 00:29:09,934 So just keep it focused on 1023 00:29:09,934 --> 00:29:11,445 them, how they're getting benefit, 1024 00:29:11,905 --> 00:29:13,564 um, why it's a win, win, win. 1025 00:29:14,374 --> 00:29:15,034 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, clarity, 1026 00:29:15,034 --> 00:29:16,685 I think is super important, isn't it? 1027 00:29:17,004 --> 00:29:18,215 So you mentioned that you're 1028 00:29:18,225 --> 00:29:18,884 sending them. 1029 00:29:19,264 --> 00:29:21,435 A lot of people to the influencer's 1030 00:29:21,435 --> 00:29:23,024 social profile, if I've understood 1031 00:29:23,024 --> 00:29:23,705 that correctly. 1032 00:29:24,215 --> 00:29:27,104 Um, and so the influencer is also 1033 00:29:27,124 --> 00:29:29,424 therefore benefiting in terms of growing 1034 00:29:29,424 --> 00:29:30,374 their following. 1035 00:29:30,664 --> 00:29:34,334 Um, and I'm curious, how do you drive 1036 00:29:34,374 --> 00:29:35,674 people to there? 1037 00:29:35,814 --> 00:29:38,114 So when you say that about an 1038 00:29:38,114 --> 00:29:39,165 influencer, we're going to drive, 1039 00:29:39,175 --> 00:29:41,104 you know, whatever people to you. 1040 00:29:41,124 --> 00:29:44,414 Are you using paid ads to drive traffic 1041 00:29:44,414 --> 00:29:45,114 to their channels? 1042 00:29:45,905 --> 00:29:46,245 Jay Neyer: No. 1043 00:29:46,305 --> 00:29:48,465 So, uh, how, how it looks in the 1044 00:29:48,465 --> 00:29:50,765 back end is we link our ad account 1045 00:29:50,835 --> 00:29:52,085 to their profile. 1046 00:29:52,165 --> 00:29:54,215 So suppose you're the brand, you're 1047 00:29:54,215 --> 00:29:55,925 still footing the entire bill for 1048 00:29:55,925 --> 00:29:56,835 all the ad spend. 1049 00:29:57,125 --> 00:29:58,565 They're just linking their profile 1050 00:29:58,565 --> 00:29:59,275 to your account. 1051 00:29:59,805 --> 00:30:01,665 And majority of the cases too, 1052 00:30:01,715 --> 00:30:03,445 we're still sending them to the brand 1053 00:30:03,475 --> 00:30:05,195 landing page or the brand website. 1054 00:30:05,715 --> 00:30:07,805 Um, but this is coming up from their 1055 00:30:07,915 --> 00:30:10,465 profile, so we're not, we're generally 1056 00:30:10,465 --> 00:30:11,855 still doing conversion based 1057 00:30:11,855 --> 00:30:14,385 campaigns that are the pixels incentive 1058 00:30:14,385 --> 00:30:16,495 and goal is to capture an actual 1059 00:30:16,495 --> 00:30:18,495 purchase versus like sending traffic 1060 00:30:18,495 --> 00:30:20,895 to profile or something like that. 1061 00:30:21,295 --> 00:30:22,215 Um, but they're getting the 1062 00:30:22,215 --> 00:30:23,675 spillover from people who also 1063 00:30:23,675 --> 00:30:25,255 just see them, see their content, 1064 00:30:25,255 --> 00:30:27,515 uh, click on their page, you know, 1065 00:30:27,515 --> 00:30:28,775 cause from that, from that ad, you 1066 00:30:28,775 --> 00:30:30,815 can, who's, who's this guy who's. 1067 00:30:31,335 --> 00:30:32,295 Talking about this product. 1068 00:30:32,305 --> 00:30:33,955 What are they all about? 1069 00:30:34,705 --> 00:30:36,295 Click on the page and go down their 1070 00:30:36,295 --> 00:30:37,075 funnel that way. 1071 00:30:37,555 --> 00:30:39,335 Um, so it's still typically conversion 1072 00:30:39,335 --> 00:30:40,505 campaigns that we're running. 1073 00:30:41,065 --> 00:30:41,695 Matt Edmundson: And do you find 1074 00:30:41,695 --> 00:30:43,735 with influencers, it's, it's, um, a 1075 00:30:43,735 --> 00:30:46,445 case of, you still need to set a fee 1076 00:30:46,445 --> 00:30:48,365 or are people a lot more aware of. 1077 00:30:48,930 --> 00:30:50,700 Uh, no, I want a percentage of sales. 1078 00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:52,940 I, I, I, um, I, I think I'm going 1079 00:30:52,940 --> 00:30:54,340 to send a lot of people to your site. 1080 00:30:54,340 --> 00:30:56,077 So I, I want, you know, 10 percent 1081 00:30:56,077 --> 00:30:56,433 or whatever. 1082 00:30:56,433 --> 00:30:57,326 I don't know, whatever a 1083 00:30:57,326 --> 00:30:57,861 good rate is. 1084 00:30:57,861 --> 00:30:58,039 This 1085 00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:58,570 Jay Neyer: is a good question. 1086 00:30:58,580 --> 00:31:00,290 This is where we see a lot of variance. 1087 00:31:00,330 --> 00:31:01,760 And so I'll give you an example. 1088 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,150 We have, we have one particular 1089 00:31:03,150 --> 00:31:05,350 client who has, uh, very expensive 1090 00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:07,039 products that are very heavy to ship. 1091 00:31:07,570 --> 00:31:09,470 So it's not feasible for them to just be 1092 00:31:09,490 --> 00:31:11,290 like slinging these things all around 1093 00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:12,880 giving you a free product because 1094 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,410 you can either go free, you can 1095 00:31:14,410 --> 00:31:16,450 go paid route for paid for posting 1096 00:31:16,890 --> 00:31:19,430 or commission route of based on volume. 1097 00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:21,760 And usually we, I mean, we've 1098 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:22,910 done all three depending on the 1099 00:31:22,910 --> 00:31:23,950 size of the account. 1100 00:31:24,390 --> 00:31:25,890 I would say we also try to 1101 00:31:25,890 --> 00:31:27,930 leverage and get good social proof 1102 00:31:27,930 --> 00:31:29,470 in the forms of product reviews and 1103 00:31:29,470 --> 00:31:30,160 things like that. 1104 00:31:30,550 --> 00:31:32,260 So anytime you can combine that with 1105 00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:33,940 influencers, it's really helpful. 1106 00:31:34,380 --> 00:31:36,100 Especially on the micro level, they're 1107 00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:37,550 probably more likely to do that. 1108 00:31:38,340 --> 00:31:39,760 And it's a lot easier for you to 1109 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,740 facilitate like an actual purchase on 1110 00:31:41,740 --> 00:31:43,610 your website that can also lead back 1111 00:31:43,610 --> 00:31:46,590 into, uh, a verified review, getting 1112 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:47,580 the testimony, getting the 1113 00:31:47,580 --> 00:31:48,610 content from that. 1114 00:31:49,090 --> 00:31:51,940 Um, but we also, you know, again, some 1115 00:31:51,940 --> 00:31:53,200 of our partners have been able to work 1116 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,730 with influencers like Gronk or, 1117 00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:57,180 uh, or Joe Rogan. 1118 00:31:57,270 --> 00:31:59,590 And those have, you can imagine 1119 00:31:59,590 --> 00:32:01,490 like some of these have, actually 1120 00:32:01,490 --> 00:32:02,670 with Joe, it didn't have any cost. 1121 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,220 The product was just that good. 1122 00:32:04,615 --> 00:32:06,825 Um, but for Gronk, there's definitely 1123 00:32:06,825 --> 00:32:08,315 compensation payment affiliated 1124 00:32:08,315 --> 00:32:08,655 with that. 1125 00:32:08,655 --> 00:32:10,815 And so, uh, for smaller brands, 1126 00:32:10,815 --> 00:32:12,835 again, even, even when we run the 1127 00:32:12,835 --> 00:32:14,485 same content with whitelisting and 1128 00:32:14,485 --> 00:32:16,935 just from the brand account, 95 percent 1129 00:32:16,935 --> 00:32:17,865 of the time, we still see better 1130 00:32:17,865 --> 00:32:19,245 performance with the whitelisting. 1131 00:32:19,695 --> 00:32:22,815 Um, so even, even with individuals 1132 00:32:22,815 --> 00:32:24,465 who have like a micro influencer of 1133 00:32:24,465 --> 00:32:26,125 thousand, 2000, like we still see good 1134 00:32:26,125 --> 00:32:26,815 results with it. 1135 00:32:27,135 --> 00:32:27,415 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 1136 00:32:27,850 --> 00:32:28,800 That's really fascinating. 1137 00:32:28,940 --> 00:32:29,550 Really fascinating. 1138 00:32:29,860 --> 00:32:32,450 I am super curious about the influencer 1139 00:32:32,460 --> 00:32:33,430 landing page. 1140 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,530 Um, just explain, I mean, you said 1141 00:32:35,550 --> 00:32:37,090 obviously there's a photo of or an 1142 00:32:37,090 --> 00:32:38,800 image of the, the influencer on the 1143 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,360 page, so there's that connection, 1144 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,480 uh, which comes, which comes through 1145 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,030 that, um, uh, dig into that for me 1146 00:32:47,050 --> 00:32:47,970 a little bit more if you could. 1147 00:32:48,580 --> 00:32:49,420 Jay Neyer: I'll just go off of the 1148 00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:50,290 topic of sleep. 1149 00:32:50,340 --> 00:32:51,480 You know, this isn't a client at 1150 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:52,110 all by any means. 1151 00:32:52,110 --> 00:32:53,610 I'm just the first thing that popped 1152 00:32:53,610 --> 00:32:55,030 in my head, but we'll run with it. 1153 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,730 So suppose I have a product that's for 1154 00:32:56,740 --> 00:32:58,480 helping with sleep, and I found a list 1155 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,655 of, Um, 10 or so sleep experts on 1156 00:33:01,665 --> 00:33:03,275 Instagram, people who talk about it 1157 00:33:03,275 --> 00:33:03,965 on their channel. 1158 00:33:04,355 --> 00:33:05,925 What I would do is approach them and 1159 00:33:05,925 --> 00:33:07,365 say, Hey, I want to set up a win 1160 00:33:07,365 --> 00:33:09,265 win win partnership with you, where 1161 00:33:09,265 --> 00:33:10,075 we're going to be running this 1162 00:33:10,075 --> 00:33:12,305 whitelisting content from your account. 1163 00:33:12,685 --> 00:33:14,075 We'll build out landing pages. 1164 00:33:14,075 --> 00:33:14,725 We're going to be paying for 1165 00:33:14,725 --> 00:33:15,455 all this traffic. 1166 00:33:15,465 --> 00:33:16,745 You're going to get free impressions 1167 00:33:16,745 --> 00:33:19,014 for, you know, whatever the weekly. 1168 00:33:19,805 --> 00:33:22,115 Podcast or show that he, that they 1169 00:33:22,115 --> 00:33:23,505 do on their own individual, you're 1170 00:33:23,525 --> 00:33:25,215 not going to get new eyeballs on that. 1171 00:33:25,215 --> 00:33:27,555 So I'd approach them about that and then 1172 00:33:27,555 --> 00:33:29,045 I'd say, okay, you know, assuming they 1173 00:33:29,045 --> 00:33:30,485 give me the thumbs up, let's do this. 1174 00:33:30,515 --> 00:33:31,695 What I would maybe then do is 1175 00:33:31,695 --> 00:33:33,205 create a landing page specific 1176 00:33:33,205 --> 00:33:33,775 around that. 1177 00:33:34,245 --> 00:33:35,935 Uh, we'll just call him Dr. 1178 00:33:35,935 --> 00:33:36,385 Jay. 1179 00:33:36,455 --> 00:33:37,995 So Dr. Jay has a landing page 1180 00:33:38,005 --> 00:33:40,145 where it's his image at the top. 1181 00:33:40,165 --> 00:33:41,755 Here are five tips. 1182 00:33:41,755 --> 00:33:43,535 Dr. Jay has for getting better 1183 00:33:43,535 --> 00:33:45,225 sleep each night, and one of them 1184 00:33:45,225 --> 00:33:49,890 might be, um, using, uh, Like turning 1185 00:33:49,890 --> 00:33:51,030 off your screen at least an hour or 1186 00:33:51,030 --> 00:33:54,970 two before night using low light or 1187 00:33:54,970 --> 00:33:56,950 red light, ideally in the evenings, 1188 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,690 um, talking about caffeine, the latest 1189 00:33:59,690 --> 00:34:00,880 that you can have at the end of the day, 1190 00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:03,370 and then maybe item number four is this 1191 00:34:03,450 --> 00:34:05,120 specific supplement that helps. 1192 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:06,500 Uh, get sleep. 1193 00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:07,860 And then number five might be talking 1194 00:34:07,860 --> 00:34:09,510 about having a cooler bedroom. 1195 00:34:09,620 --> 00:34:11,340 And so like four of these items 1196 00:34:11,340 --> 00:34:13,290 are just kind of tips or items. 1197 00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:14,950 And then, Oh, one of these is also a 1198 00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:17,100 product or a service that I'm offering 1199 00:34:17,100 --> 00:34:18,280 that you could consume with that. 1200 00:34:18,770 --> 00:34:21,180 And so that would be more top of 1201 00:34:21,180 --> 00:34:22,620 funnel when we're trying to educate. 1202 00:34:22,700 --> 00:34:23,820 And that's generally going to be more 1203 00:34:23,820 --> 00:34:25,283 necessary for people who have zero 1204 00:34:25,283 --> 00:34:26,013 exposure to you. 1205 00:34:26,013 --> 00:34:28,460 It's going to be a much softer sale. 1206 00:34:28,510 --> 00:34:29,290 And we're trying to make that look 1207 00:34:29,290 --> 00:34:32,640 like more like a. An article or a blog 1208 00:34:32,670 --> 00:34:34,400 publishing versus being like, this 1209 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:35,720 is very obviously a website of 1210 00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:36,820 someone trying to sell me something. 1211 00:34:37,340 --> 00:34:38,660 Um, so that's about that would 1212 00:34:38,660 --> 00:34:40,350 look like a top funnel if you're 1213 00:34:40,350 --> 00:34:41,400 more middle funnel. 1214 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,480 And I have some notoriety, a simpler 1215 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,780 form of that could just be more of 1216 00:34:45,780 --> 00:34:47,580 like a collection or a product page. 1217 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,350 And the simplest form even is just 1218 00:34:49,350 --> 00:34:52,360 having your hero banner with Dr. J or 1219 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,370 whatever influence in that image, just 1220 00:34:54,370 --> 00:34:56,470 so you have some continuity and then 1221 00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:57,960 you can also, it'll be a lot easier to 1222 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,440 get into that, some of that tracking. 1223 00:34:59,855 --> 00:35:01,885 If you do have, uh, like commission, 1224 00:35:01,885 --> 00:35:03,365 revenue share, things like that. 1225 00:35:03,735 --> 00:35:05,695 See how traffic, how traffic is 1226 00:35:05,695 --> 00:35:06,425 coming in from it. 1227 00:35:08,195 --> 00:35:08,815 Matt Edmundson: Really smart. 1228 00:35:09,235 --> 00:35:09,705 I like it. 1229 00:35:09,705 --> 00:35:11,195 And you didn't know this, but I 1230 00:35:11,195 --> 00:35:12,435 actually sell a sleep supplement. 1231 00:35:12,525 --> 00:35:13,515 So I'm going to steal all 1232 00:35:13,515 --> 00:35:14,075 your ideas. 1233 00:35:14,455 --> 00:35:14,515 Thank you. 1234 00:35:17,035 --> 00:35:18,345 Uh, it, it, it, it. 1235 00:35:19,390 --> 00:35:23,310 It is, um, it is interesting, isn't 1236 00:35:23,310 --> 00:35:26,750 it, how it's, it's not, I don't think e 1237 00:35:26,750 --> 00:35:28,840 commerce is becoming more complex. 1238 00:35:29,340 --> 00:35:30,890 I just think it's becoming more 1239 00:35:30,890 --> 00:35:31,760 nuanced, isn't it? 1240 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,060 And you, you're now, years ago, you 1241 00:35:34,060 --> 00:35:35,050 just go, there's a sleep supplement, 1242 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,230 just take it, what's wrong with you? 1243 00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:37,746 And then you had to do the blog post 1244 00:35:37,746 --> 00:35:39,940 and say, this is, you know, something 1245 00:35:39,940 --> 00:35:41,240 interesting about sleep supplements. 1246 00:35:41,770 --> 00:35:42,470 And then you have to do the 1247 00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:43,080 YouTube video. 1248 00:35:43,940 --> 00:35:45,120 And all of these things sort of 1249 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,130 happen and now we're getting 1250 00:35:46,130 --> 00:35:47,550 influence to talk about it because 1251 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,950 like you say, um, building your own 1252 00:35:49,950 --> 00:35:51,490 brand, that brand recognition is not 1253 00:35:51,530 --> 00:35:53,230 as straightforward in a very crowded, 1254 00:35:53,230 --> 00:35:53,900 noisy place. 1255 00:35:53,900 --> 00:35:55,500 And so the influencers have got 1256 00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:56,170 to do it for you. 1257 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,220 Um, so I don't think e commerce 1258 00:35:58,290 --> 00:35:59,810 is becoming more complicated. 1259 00:35:59,810 --> 00:36:01,270 I do think it's becoming more 1260 00:36:01,270 --> 00:36:03,630 nuanced and learning these 1261 00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:04,950 new strategies. 1262 00:36:04,970 --> 00:36:06,770 I say new, but it's sort of old school 1263 00:36:06,780 --> 00:36:08,655 thinking, but In a new way, isn't it? 1264 00:36:08,655 --> 00:36:10,735 Seems to be having quite a big impact. 1265 00:36:11,835 --> 00:36:12,405 Jay Neyer: Definitely. 1266 00:36:12,675 --> 00:36:13,835 Back in the day, at least from 1267 00:36:13,835 --> 00:36:15,765 my experience, as used to be, 1268 00:36:16,255 --> 00:36:17,715 their targeting was way better. 1269 00:36:17,775 --> 00:36:19,335 So you had some meta, you could 1270 00:36:19,335 --> 00:36:21,125 just tell it exactly the type of 1271 00:36:21,125 --> 00:36:22,295 person that you're trying to find. 1272 00:36:22,815 --> 00:36:23,805 Uh, and it was really good at 1273 00:36:23,805 --> 00:36:24,755 finding that person. 1274 00:36:25,285 --> 00:36:26,775 We see the opposite today. 1275 00:36:26,855 --> 00:36:27,875 So like, there's really only 1276 00:36:27,875 --> 00:36:28,825 four levers. 1277 00:36:29,355 --> 00:36:31,065 In the profitability equation, it's 1278 00:36:31,075 --> 00:36:32,465 like it's CPMs. 1279 00:36:32,515 --> 00:36:34,165 How expensive is it to advertise 1280 00:36:34,605 --> 00:36:35,315 click through rate? 1281 00:36:35,375 --> 00:36:36,835 Are people engaging in the content 1282 00:36:37,055 --> 00:36:37,805 conversion rate? 1283 00:36:37,815 --> 00:36:38,905 Are they making the purchase? 1284 00:36:38,945 --> 00:36:39,765 And then all that. 1285 00:36:40,195 --> 00:36:41,835 Multiply against the AOV, like how 1286 00:36:41,835 --> 00:36:43,485 much are people ordering for? 1287 00:36:44,045 --> 00:36:46,085 And today it's like, you actually want 1288 00:36:46,085 --> 00:36:47,625 to do as broad. 1289 00:36:47,665 --> 00:36:48,685 We see better performance just 1290 00:36:48,705 --> 00:36:50,505 going very wide and broad because 1291 00:36:50,505 --> 00:36:52,585 you're going to have lower CPMs versus 1292 00:36:52,585 --> 00:36:53,925 otherwise, if you're trying to dial all 1293 00:36:53,925 --> 00:36:55,635 these knobs and just try to get hyper 1294 00:36:55,635 --> 00:36:57,315 specific, you just, you just end up. 1295 00:36:57,535 --> 00:36:58,875 Cranking up your CPMs. 1296 00:36:58,875 --> 00:37:00,815 And so it eats up tremendously 1297 00:37:00,815 --> 00:37:01,695 into the equation. 1298 00:37:01,695 --> 00:37:04,785 So those four numbers and data 1299 00:37:04,785 --> 00:37:06,215 points haven't really changed. 1300 00:37:06,245 --> 00:37:08,275 Like even back in the day, those 1301 00:37:08,275 --> 00:37:09,535 were still the same numbers, but 1302 00:37:09,535 --> 00:37:11,605 now we're seeing like, okay, where, 1303 00:37:11,605 --> 00:37:13,065 where are those trends shifting? 1304 00:37:13,395 --> 00:37:16,145 So we anticipate CPMs to kind of 1305 00:37:16,165 --> 00:37:17,935 gradually increase more and more each 1306 00:37:17,935 --> 00:37:20,435 year as advertising gets more expensive. 1307 00:37:20,815 --> 00:37:22,935 How can we keep those CPMs lower, 1308 00:37:22,945 --> 00:37:24,225 still get the impressions. 1309 00:37:24,615 --> 00:37:27,225 Um, and still get the relevancy, but 1310 00:37:27,415 --> 00:37:28,735 without jacking up the rest of 1311 00:37:28,735 --> 00:37:29,405 the equation. 1312 00:37:29,890 --> 00:37:32,620 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, but all 1313 00:37:32,670 --> 00:37:36,940 excellent points Jay and I did Which 1314 00:37:36,990 --> 00:37:38,300 gives me another two hours of 1315 00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:39,700 conversation that I think we need to 1316 00:37:39,700 --> 00:37:41,650 have really just digging into this 1317 00:37:41,650 --> 00:37:44,190 a little bit more But I'm also aware 1318 00:37:44,190 --> 00:37:46,820 of time and and so what I want to do 1319 00:37:47,145 --> 00:37:48,585 Uh, before I get too carried away, 1320 00:37:48,635 --> 00:37:50,105 I've started and I've remembered, 1321 00:37:50,145 --> 00:37:51,635 uh, on this particular occasion. 1322 00:37:52,085 --> 00:37:54,185 Uh, I've started, I say I've started, 1323 00:37:54,185 --> 00:37:55,565 I've been asking guests now for 1324 00:37:55,565 --> 00:37:56,935 a while for a question, which 1325 00:37:56,935 --> 00:37:58,315 I go and answer on social media. 1326 00:37:58,315 --> 00:37:59,535 I don't answer on the podcast. 1327 00:37:59,635 --> 00:38:00,825 I go and answer on social media. 1328 00:38:00,825 --> 00:38:02,185 If you want to know my answer to Jay's 1329 00:38:02,185 --> 00:38:03,785 question, come find me on LinkedIn. 1330 00:38:04,165 --> 00:38:05,035 Uh, that's where I'll be 1331 00:38:05,035 --> 00:38:05,475 answering it. 1332 00:38:05,985 --> 00:38:08,125 Uh, so Jay, what's your 1333 00:38:08,125 --> 00:38:09,015 question for me? 1334 00:38:10,365 --> 00:38:11,155 Jay Neyer: My question would 1335 00:38:11,165 --> 00:38:14,645 be if you could leave one message 1336 00:38:14,675 --> 00:38:16,495 on a billboard for the world to 1337 00:38:16,495 --> 00:38:18,645 see, what would your message be? 1338 00:38:19,325 --> 00:38:21,785 Matt Edmundson: Oh, that's such 1339 00:38:21,785 --> 00:38:22,485 a good question. 1340 00:38:23,545 --> 00:38:25,065 As you started talking, I was like, 1341 00:38:25,785 --> 00:38:27,615 if you could just leave one message. 1342 00:38:27,615 --> 00:38:28,935 And for some reason I went to the 1343 00:38:28,935 --> 00:38:30,925 old school answer machine messages. 1344 00:38:31,265 --> 00:38:31,775 Do you know what I mean? 1345 00:38:32,255 --> 00:38:33,335 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 1346 00:38:34,005 --> 00:38:36,225 Uh, which I thought was, I thought, but 1347 00:38:36,465 --> 00:38:37,625 I like the billboard one as well. 1348 00:38:37,655 --> 00:38:38,405 So no, very good. 1349 00:38:38,405 --> 00:38:39,495 If you want to know my answer to that 1350 00:38:39,495 --> 00:38:40,505 question, like I say, come follow 1351 00:38:40,525 --> 00:38:41,275 me on social media. 1352 00:38:41,825 --> 00:38:44,255 Uh, but Jay, listen, I, uh, fascinating 1353 00:38:44,255 --> 00:38:45,905 conversation, but, and, um, 1354 00:38:46,115 --> 00:38:48,055 congratulations on all your success. 1355 00:38:48,275 --> 00:38:51,295 Uh, it seems to be, um, Well earned. 1356 00:38:51,415 --> 00:38:53,942 Uh, and I'm fascinating. 1357 00:38:53,942 --> 00:38:56,285 And if people want to reach out to you, 1358 00:38:56,285 --> 00:38:57,925 if they want to find out more about how 1359 00:38:57,925 --> 00:38:59,845 maybe you can help them, maybe they've 1360 00:38:59,845 --> 00:39:00,995 got a Shopify site. 1361 00:39:01,895 --> 00:39:02,915 Maybe they're six figures. 1362 00:39:02,915 --> 00:39:04,355 They want to go to eight figures and 1363 00:39:04,355 --> 00:39:06,415 just need some good old conversations 1364 00:39:06,415 --> 00:39:06,635 with you. 1365 00:39:06,645 --> 00:39:07,585 Good looking self. 1366 00:39:07,665 --> 00:39:08,485 How would they do that? 1367 00:39:09,035 --> 00:39:09,375 Jay Neyer: Yeah. 1368 00:39:09,435 --> 00:39:12,285 Uh, my website, lanternsol.com L A 1369 00:39:12,285 --> 00:39:15,175 N T E R N S O L. You can also find me on 1370 00:39:15,445 --> 00:39:17,435 most social media platforms, Twitter, 1371 00:39:17,435 --> 00:39:20,375 LinkedIn, Instagram, Jay Neyer, J A Y 1372 00:39:20,385 --> 00:39:22,275 and then N E Y E R. So just send 1373 00:39:22,275 --> 00:39:23,065 me a message. 1374 00:39:23,145 --> 00:39:24,765 Uh, come check out our website. 1375 00:39:24,825 --> 00:39:25,715 Be more than happy to help. 1376 00:39:26,555 --> 00:39:27,325 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 1377 00:39:27,365 --> 00:39:28,695 We will, of course, link to all of 1378 00:39:28,695 --> 00:39:30,115 those things in the show notes, which 1379 00:39:30,115 --> 00:39:31,405 you can get along for free with the 1380 00:39:31,405 --> 00:39:33,115 transcript on the website, e commerce 1381 00:39:33,115 --> 00:39:34,045 podcast dot net. 1382 00:39:34,435 --> 00:39:36,215 Or of course, you know this by now, 1383 00:39:36,215 --> 00:39:38,055 if you're listening to this on a podcast 1384 00:39:38,085 --> 00:39:40,005 player like Apple podcast or, um, 1385 00:39:40,045 --> 00:39:42,475 Spotify to scroll down because the 1386 00:39:42,475 --> 00:39:43,835 show notes, they show them these 1387 00:39:43,835 --> 00:39:44,355 days, don't they? 1388 00:39:44,825 --> 00:39:46,485 Uh, and so we will make sure all of 1389 00:39:46,485 --> 00:39:48,565 those links are in the show notes, 1390 00:39:48,565 --> 00:39:50,165 but Jay, listen, thanks for coming 1391 00:39:50,165 --> 00:39:50,905 on the show, man. 1392 00:39:50,935 --> 00:39:51,855 Really appreciate it. 1393 00:39:51,855 --> 00:39:52,665 Great to meet you. 1394 00:39:53,315 --> 00:39:54,515 Uh, and thanks for your work. 1395 00:39:55,490 --> 00:39:56,550 Thanks for giving me a massive 1396 00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:58,070 strategy around my sleep supplement. 1397 00:39:58,490 --> 00:39:58,970 Thanks for having 1398 00:39:58,970 --> 00:39:59,150 Jay Neyer: me. 1399 00:39:59,160 --> 00:39:59,410 It was 1400 00:39:59,410 --> 00:39:59,750 Matt Edmundson: awesome. 1401 00:40:00,540 --> 00:40:01,350 Uh, it was great. 1402 00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:03,060 Uh, what a great conversation again. 1403 00:40:03,290 --> 00:40:04,440 Now let me do this huge round 1404 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:04,810 of applause. 1405 00:40:04,940 --> 00:40:05,080 Yes. 1406 00:40:07,970 --> 00:40:09,250 We like the cheesy sound desk. 1407 00:40:09,260 --> 00:40:10,100 Oh yes, we do. 1408 00:40:10,140 --> 00:40:12,310 Now be sure to follow the e 1409 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:13,820 commerce podcast wherever you get 1410 00:40:13,820 --> 00:40:16,140 your podcast from because of course we 1411 00:40:16,140 --> 00:40:18,070 have got some more great conversations 1412 00:40:18,070 --> 00:40:20,130 lined up and I don't want you to miss. 1413 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:20,840 Any of them. 1414 00:40:21,170 --> 00:40:22,190 And in case no one has told you 1415 00:40:22,190 --> 00:40:23,160 yet today, let me be the first. 1416 00:40:23,540 --> 00:40:24,670 You are awesome. 1417 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:25,520 Yes, you are created. 1418 00:40:25,540 --> 00:40:25,960 Awesome. 1419 00:40:26,270 --> 00:40:27,160 It's just a burden. 1420 00:40:27,170 --> 00:40:27,730 You've got to bear. 1421 00:40:27,940 --> 00:40:28,910 Jay's got to bear it. 1422 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:29,930 I've got to bear it. 1423 00:40:30,330 --> 00:40:31,490 You've got to bear it as well. 1424 00:40:31,540 --> 00:40:33,970 Now, the e commerce podcast is produced 1425 00:40:33,980 --> 00:40:35,040 by pod junction. 1426 00:40:35,050 --> 00:40:36,570 You can find our entire archive 1427 00:40:36,570 --> 00:40:37,940 of episodes on your favorite 1428 00:40:37,940 --> 00:40:38,610 podcast app. 1429 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,230 The theme music was brilliantly written 1430 00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:42,620 by Josh Edmundson. 1431 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,200 And as I mentioned, the show notes, 1432 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:44,900 the transcript. 1433 00:40:45,340 --> 00:40:46,680 The links, everything are 1434 00:40:46,690 --> 00:40:48,550 on the website, ecommercepodcast. 1435 00:40:48,570 --> 00:40:50,200 net, which where is the place you 1436 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,520 go to to instantly sign up to the 1437 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:52,890 newsletter, which I mentioned earlier. 1438 00:40:53,420 --> 00:40:55,080 Uh, so go do that. 1439 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:56,200 But that's it for me. 1440 00:40:56,220 --> 00:40:57,140 That's it from Jay. 1441 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,810 Thank you so much for joining us. 1442 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:00,980 Have a fantastic week wherever you 1443 00:41:00,980 --> 00:41:01,410 are in the world. 1444 00:41:01,460 --> 00:41:02,220 I'll see you next time. 1445 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:02,670 Bye for now.