Title: How a man applied for a job against the odds

There was no internet, no mobile phones, no social media. So literally unless it was add a note, you knew somebody, or you had a direct dial number, you have to write a letter.

For a lot of men and myself included. Daydreaming can be a form of relaxation, and out of body experience that helps us imagine alternate realities that don't have the stresses of day to day life. Jonathan was studying at university in Glasgow, when he decided that he was actually going to act upon one of his biggest dreams.

Another boring economy, what day the week it was in the lecture theatre, it was one of those old style ones like you see in the movies, you've got this chemistry teacher who's writing on a blackboard with chalk, and I was right at the back of the theatre that could probably see a few 100 just not paying attention. And I got my folder out of my bag. And inside, it had slipped a copy of enemy, which is this music newspaper, because I thought if there's nothing happening on the blackboard, I can thumb through some music reviews, I was going through the newspaper looking to see who was coming to the UK who was going to play because at the time, a lot of the bands that I was into came from the US and then I noticed a Alison chains, and even bear coming to Scotland, Glasgow Barrowlands. And when Alison chains come to the UK, they will also be replacing their bass player. And for that moment, I thought, you know, what, how cool would it be to be in a band playing bass and just rocking out all the time? So that was the moment when I thought they need me. I should be the bass player. It makes perfect sense. I knew almost all of their tracks, why wouldn't they want me to play bass for them? What I ended up doing was just turning in a page in my notes book. And I started writing a letter to Allison chains like dear Allison chains, I noticed that you're coming to Glasgow, and your base pay is leaving. And I would like to be considered for the job. It was kind of a bit sad. Write a job application letter to a grunge band, I have to remind you that it's in the early 90s. There was no internet, no mobile phones, no social media. So literally, unless it was add a note you knew somebody, or you had a direct dial number, you had to write a letter. But anyway, I put in there, why they should pick me what I could play. And I had a passport photograph from a wallet because I had one leftover from when we enrolled at uni. I just attached it to this letter, put it in an envelope and posted it to the venue, Glasgow Barrowlands bought my coach ticket and then waited for the gig. You know, we were hot and sweaty, and we're waiting for the band to come on. And they had this big curtain that they put up in front of the stage. And the lights went off. And then literally like panel, the lights go on. They drop the curtain, and then the band appears, you know leading coming on first guitarist drummer, oh, and a new bass player. Then he started walking to the front. Rather than just pick up the guitars. They walked to the front and started looking around the crowd. And everyone's thinking like, what are they looking for? And I was like, kind of mouthing, it's me. And then he waved and then he kind of nudged the other band members. Like it's him. He's there. And then they all waved people like look at me like, Okay, why are you guys smiling? Are you a celebrity? are you what are you? All I thought was yes. It was like scoring a goal. Or maybe it was like adding a winning a penalty. It was like, Yes, I deserve this. That's how I felt. And, and then it's what happens next. Everything else went on my head. It was just like, Yeah, this is freaking cool. I didn't get an audition. But I did get a wave. Who is this kid from Manchester to be asking to be part of Allison chains, a huge band. I mean, I looked on Spotify beforehand, and they've got 100,000,002 100,000,300 million hits for every single song that they do this What 1920 year old from Manchester, black kid from mosside council estate and infamous Councillor state in Manchester, I know it quite well. And you're in Scotland, where you sort of decide you know what, I'm gonna go for this. There's a side of my brain that just doesn't have boundaries. Like I just think, a wonder if I could do this or let me try this. And then there's this other side, which says you can't. And I think that other side of my brain is also very sensitive to external pressures because the Yukon is I'd say, it's almost based on some kind of rational arguments that people try to put forward. Whether that's your teachers, your classmates, your work colleagues, and they're, you're constantly told, I realise that a daily basis, people tell you don't do this, but I like to keep this other side of my brain that thinks Imagine if I could, and that's probably the side of my brain that spent too much time listening to music, watching too many TV shows, reading too many comics where you see all of these characters in this other world that just, they don't have those boundaries, they might have those doubts, but they seem to overcome them. That's why they're superheroes or that's why they're rock stars, or that's why they win the Olympic medals and score goals. We do create these boundaries for ourselves, and they're not necessarily helpful or they're not. They're not I mean, some boundaries are helpful. Otherwise, you know, you ruin yourself. But I think it's always worth questioning and testing, whether those boundaries should be applicable to you, and whether they're even still relevant, because some boundaries that you have, let me give you an example. Like, as I've gotten older, I've learned to trust my gut instincts a lot more. And I think that that's okay, when you're younger, you know, some of the questions you might want to ask yourself are like, how do you know, according to who have you got enough experience, you know, sometimes following your gut when you're young is just a disaster. But I think at a certain stage, if you've done enough air miles, you've read enough books, you've met enough people, you've held down a job, you've paid enough bills and taxes, you should treat yourself and allow yourself to follow your gut because it's drawing from something which is basically valuable experience. That means therefore, that there are some boundaries that you should just ignore. And there are some rules that you should definitely break.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. A lot of it is based on the Unreasonable Man, there's a quote there somewhere that change is only done through the thinking and the actions of an unreasonable man. Because if you're just reasonable with everything, then the world stays the same. Look, I want to be excited. And part of being excited is about being surprised. I don't ever like surprises. But I like being excited. So I'm willing to entertain being surprised. I don't know think of all those moments like things that are like bad anxiety. Like, I'm not the sort of dude that sits in exam or waits for their exam results and is excited about that. Night, I hate it. And of course, you have sleepless nights, and you have all those doubts, like what if I fail, but but other things, like, you know, going on going travelling to another country, or doing a show, like, you know, being in bands actually did get to play in bands and playing in front of loads of people, or even, you know, even asking somebody out on a first date, like, that little buzz is quite cool. And I think a lot of that excitement is what keeps us alive. When the excitement starts to decrease, that's when you notice that your life is going stagnant. I've felt that before in my life as well. The challenge becomes like, how do you maintain that buzz.

And that takes a bit of soul searching and thinking and kind of like rehearsal or scaffolding because, like now that the tables are turned on, I give lectures, I have to get I know that I have to get hyped up going into a lecture because if I'm hyped, they're more likely to be hyped. Because on the other side, it's like, you know, I've taught 1000s of people. So it'd be easy just to go. This is lecture number 263. You know, I don't really want to teach that's like, you know, it doesn't mean anything, I'm already getting paid. But but that would be a betrayal of kind of my professionalism. So like, assuming that you're not going to rely upon stimulants to get you hyped, but you're naturally going to get hyped, then you have to go deeper into just tapping into those memories of moments when you were really happy or what really makes you kick.

Definitely, it's not about the destination. It's the journey that goes on there. I'm wondering when you're stepping on to the stage in this lecture hall, and you're teaching hundreds of students at a time. Do you almost feel like you're playing a concert?

Yeah, sounds sad, right?

I mean, like, you know, whether it's to, you know, lectures, 15 students, or it could be to 100 or it could be to 350. And I think at some conferences, I've spoken to professionals, it's been 5000.

And, as a musician, the most I perform to is between about 50 and 75,000. It might sound strange to people, but actually get a kick out of all of them. Even the 15 student ones. Yes. Yeah. Because you get direct feedback. You know, the thing is that, like, if it's 50,000 people, that is a massive rush, you know, to hear like a crowd Roar is ridiculous. It's one of the best buses you can get. But there's so many people and the barrier is a lot further away. You Don't get a personal connection. So I realised that a lot of that is just kind of like, it's just they're getting a buzz off the moment. And probably any band would impress them as well. I mean, yeah, okay, there's you they cheer or you do certain things, you can see a call and response thing. But I remember like one time, by, you know, you did the performance, and then you get offstage. And a lot of those people don't recognise you. Afterwards, they recognise you onstage with a guitar, and the light shining on you, but you could be wearing the same T shirt, same afro, whatever it is, and walk through the crowd. And that might seem strange to people. But I go back to that point of like, you remember, like that show I did, was in Serbia. Do a pretty much only white people in the crowd, probably almost exclusively white people in the crowd. So when I would walk through a crowd, it would be noticeable or the other band members, but a lot of people will notice you. Whereas if you, like, teach 15 people, and they smile, or like, you know, the call and response is directly related to what you're saying. And it's amazing, like you had one one student write to me. And it was funny, because we were having this debate, and he didn't agree. And it was, it was actually to do with, like racism, and what was offensive and stuff like that. And it was maybe 15 years later, the dude found me on LinkedIn and sent a message and it was after Black Lives Matter. And he said, You know, I've been thinking about that class that I had with you. And I think you were right. And I'm sorry, if I said anything offensive. And I was like, Man, you didn't say anything offensive. I just thought it was cool that we're having this debate. But that was a special moment to me, because it's like, you know, there's someone can remember a conversation that you had 15 years ago, and and the penny drops 15 years later, right?

Thankfully, you know, I remained living long enough to be able to find out that that penny dropped. I mean, to me, though, those, those create a buzz, which is equivalent to some of the other big crowds. And not only that, but the fact that he actually reached out to you because he could have remembered or the penny could have dropped him. But that doesn't mean necessarily, he's gonna reach out to you and tell you.

Yeah, and he could have forgotten he was me. I mean, it could be like, you know, like, sometimes the penny drops, and you're like, Oh, I remember like some guys, sometimes somewhere saying this. Because even I think about, like my education, I know that it's easier for me to remember people that I didn't like, like the teachers that didn't like, you know, top of the mind, like, oh, this teacher, that teacher, they were this, they told me I couldn't do this. But sometimes, like the teachers who were actually quite good are kind like, it takes you a little bit longer to remember their names. I don't know why. Unless people are really, really kind or they really make an impact. So I learned something about that in business as well. Like, you know, if you if you wind people up, or if you're upset people, yeah, they don't forget that. If you can't have people that kindness often gets forgotten. But you really, really, really have to go the extra mile to be memorable in a positive way. And that's something that I've tried to work on getting better at doing. Yeah, and I review a lot of people that I've met a lot of experiences I've had in my life, and you do remember the kind people they are the ones that come up at the top of the pile. I want to talk about purpose in your life as a man, Jonathan, because you've been through so many incredible experiences, you know, playing in rock bands, rugby player, Professor, playing to huge crowds at Glastonbury. that excitement, well, if you're a listener of this episode, who doesn't have the opportunity to play to 50,000 75,000 people? How do you create that excitement in your life? How do you have that purpose as a man that constantly fuels everything that you do? I would say, you know, look at people you admire, and think about why you admire them, and talk to your mates and savour wasn't in the room? How would you describe me and taking all of that information? And then just sit on that information and think like, Okay, what, what is the world telling me? And then think about where do you want to position yourself? And so for me, I realised that there's a lot of me, which is kind of a like, balance in my life. And so there are sides of me that yeah, loud music smashing people on a rugby field, like, you know, like, like really, kind of intense moments like, you know, learning Japanese samurai sword, all that stuff. Like, I suppose people would think that that would make me like a really kind of Butch macho guy that lives off T bone steaks. Yeah.

Is testosterone is through the roof. 1200 Yeah, you know, can't control his temper, but actually, that intensity, some

With me out, like, like, there's a lot of people that know me that know that like, you know, I've got clothes with flowers on them, I've got like, I've got like a pink sweater with, like, you know, hummingbirds and flowers on it, and I and all my own clothes, I can cook and fully domesticated.

15:19

Even one of my work colleagues was asking me about fashion tips, and I was sending a link says that, oh, this outfit would really suit you. And, you know, it was like, people were questioning what what my, what my preferences were and stuff like that. And I kind of enjoy that, to me, that's the excitement as well, which is like kind of proving people wrong, and just messing with people's heads. And I think being a man,

15:42

for me means trying to be a balanced person who is the full, complete picture, I love being the brute who tests out his physical strength, and my empower. But I also love testing out my brain, and also testing out my compassion and sensitivity. And having that that full picture together, you have the opportunity to really do something that's mundane, and there's beauty in that mundane, but to actually be present for that period. Because people go, Oh, I don't really want to cook or I don't want to clean the bathroom floor, get that mould off. But actually, there's a lot there. That gives you that time. So if it takes you an hour or two hours to do something like that, you've got all that thinking time that we take for granted, you might not have that opportunity to do that thinking in the in your normal week, in your your week working in an office job or, or whatever it is that you do. Yeah, and I think

16:39

that's my way of of making that chore not seem so like, boring. I like to kind of multitask. Because if I just felt like, Oh, what did I do today, I clean some mould off a wall, I feel like it was like, I would feel it was a waste of a day or waste a few hours. But if I kind of, like paired it with, I got to sort out some things that have just been bothering me in my head. So it might be cleaning mould plus a pair of headphones, listen to music, and thinking and let my mind wander about like, what am I doing with my life afterwards that feel good. And if it isn't listening to music, then you know, even sometimes,

17:18

you know, sometimes you've got mates that you can just talk to on the phone about stuff. And I don't even mean like the things that are bothering you. But I think also I get stimulated quite nicely by other things. So you could be on the phone to your mate with your headphones on cleaning the mould. And those things together. That kind of talking about mundane stuff like Okay, so like, you know, what do you do like when it comes to mould on your bathroom wall and they're talking and then you end up on some random thing talking about you go to the cinema, nothing that's going to sort the world out. But there's something quite beautiful about indirectly, it might just start to unravel certain problems or something will reveal itself that otherwise wasn't there. I know that like, you know, therapists talk about I mean, there's always that joke, they always say, Tell me about your childhood or tell me about your parents or when you went to school. And when they asked that question. At the time, most people think like, what's that got to do with the problem that I'm presenting in front of you? And then maybe several weeks later, someone goes on? Okay, it kind of is and I'd forgotten about this moment. So I think often, like problem solving is about unravelling things that are not entirely apparent to you at the moment when you're trying to solve that problem. And even sometimes, it takes time for your brain just to kind of unpick those problems. And that could be when you're awake could be when you're asleep. But But yeah, you do need that kind of space. Jonathan has had a really eclectic and varied life. And in evidence to this, we were going through so many stories that you had before we started recording, it was actually really difficult to nail one down. Maybe this varied life is down to the fact that he's always willing to ask the question, even when the outcome seems improbable. Ask yourself, would you have seen that advert in enemy of your favourite band looking for a new bass player and done the same thing as Jonathan? I know I certainly wouldn't have done it would have shut me up too much, to be honest. And returning to my point earlier about George Bernard Shaw, the reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to Himself. Therefore, all progress depends upon the Unreasonable Man. I read that, quote years ago, and it always brings up that nonconformist side of me that wants to go ahead and do what everyone expects you not to do. Jonathan really embodies this quote, and he's defied convention and the thoughts of others throughout his life. What's the one thing in your life that you could be doing, but you've put barriers up as to why you can't do it? That promotion you've wanted that business, you've always wanted to start that once in a lifetime trip. Whilst we were doing the episode it reminded me of this viral clip that I saw a few years ago. It happened at Glastonbury and

20:00

There's this kid called Alex, he must be about 1516 He was wearing a bucket hat. And he went up on stage to the rapper Dave, to perform a song called Thiago Silva. Now it's not really my kind of music, but I just absolutely loved that whole scene. And this sort of wondering what's going to happen next. Anyone who's listening who's actually seen that clip will have thought, well, this kid is going to be shit as in, he actually gets up. he exudes confidence. And he knows every single word, every single lyric. And this story was really similar. Although unfortunately, Jonathan didn't get his chance on stage. He didn't allow negative thoughts to override his enthusiasm for wanting to get on the stage, though.

20:40

Because I think the majority of people watching who may have had the opportunity to get on stage like Alex did, or potentially, Jonathan, if his dreams had come true, would have had the self defeating thoughts that I'm not good enough. I can't do this. I can't do that. So I've got a question for you. What could you learn from Jonathan's approach to applying to be a bass player or whatever it is that you wanted to do? You know, really that thing that you've always desired?

21:06

Of the eight different types of men out there, Jonathan shot himself to be the archetypal dreamer, to absolutely go for whatever he wants. He spent a lot of time thinking about and planning for things to happen with Allison chains, which seemed impossible to others. But my question is, Which type of money you take the man test to find out? It takes less than three minutes to complete and you'll learn a lot about who you really are. The link is in the show notes.