Welcome back to The Action Catalyst. Today we

are joined by Ron Alford, a senior partner and VP of

recruiting executive coach and speaker at Southwestern

Consulting. It's awesome to have you back on the podcast you've

been others before. I am excited to formally interview you

because you're trapped. I could ask you all the embarrassing

things publicly that I've always wanted to.

Thank you for having me on.

But in all honesty, you know, one of the

things that I've always respected about you and how

you've lived your life outside of business is, I guess, first

and foremost and how you run my first experience learning about

you. I remember who's when you talked about how you just run 35

miles one year for every year you've been alive, because it

was the 35th birthday. I was both amazed and thought you were

a masochist at the same time. But then when you unpacked you

know why you did it what it meant to you. I thought that was

really cool. But talk about when did running start for you?

Yeah, it's such an interesting thing, how gut

feelings happened. I remember walking into a running store,

you just get some shoes, not thinking much of it. My whole

life was basketball, football, just more team sports. And I saw

this fundraiser for the Leukemia Lymphoma Society where you can

do a triathlon, you can go to Kona, Hawaii with a group of

people you don't know and raise, I think I believe a six and a

half 1000 to go to Hawaii and do this this triathlon, this

Olympic distance triathlon. And I didn't have a bike I didn't

y'all really run other than to score a basket or a touchdown.

Or if and I just thought, man, it'd be neat. I was, you know,

getting a little older and team sports were the thing anymore.

And I remember fundraising for that and falling in love with

the whole philanthropic side of what we were doing there. But

then also the actual race itself and the endurance side of it,

and just really what it took to prepare there. And so after

doing the race, I thought, Oh, the bikie was cool. The swimming

was cool. But man, the running art was awesome. And so that

that started a series of like, okay, let's see what these half

marathons and marathons and these things are like, and

finally got into some some trail stuff where you're not as

consumed with the watch. You can't really you know, when

you're going up a mountain or doing technical single track,

you can have an 18 minute downhill mile that changes

everything. So that's that's kind of where the running part

started, and how I've more fallen in love with the distance

endurance side of it.

And today, like roughly how many ultras?

So in actual events, roughly 20 things. I've done

more on my own. Yeah, I'd say 35, 40.

How does running fit into your book Redefining

Possible? Where do you feel like how the psychology of how you do

what you do? Because for listeners that don't know, how

long is it typical ultra?

Anything typically 50k or above, so anything lot,

technically longer than a marathon louder than 26.2. So 50

ks 31 miles, but the thing about Ultra is, is they are usually in

mountains or deep trails, or they're not your typical road

kind of terrain. You know, obviously the book I'm sure

we'll talk more about it. But it alludes to belief barriers that

alludes to, to unconditional confidence, and running humbles

any person. Like there it is, it crushes your soul. And so it's

so good for me to get out there and just get beaten. And I don't

know any other pretty way to say it. And you remember those

moments where you were so depleted, your legs were shot,

you could hardly move the cramps were in can you take some

breaths, you take a minute, you recollect your thoughts, your

mind receptors, and suddenly your body follows your mind. 10

miles later, you're eating snacks, you're reinvigorated.

You're, you keep rallying. I would say the other part of it

is just in a world where it's, if you're in business, if you

have, you know, multiple kids like I do, I'm in a blended

family. You know, we're all have stress environments. And I

welcome that I want to be in areas where I feel pressure, I

want to be in areas where I feel stress, I think that's a healthy

thing. If I don't let it get to me too much. And that's where

the running really helps me. Calm, I come home from Iran. I'm

a better listener to my kids. I'm more calm with my wife, more

loving my wife and more patient with prospects or clients, you

name it.

I've noticed, I think that's a common trait. A

lot of people found this this success is that a number of them

not all but a number of found their ability to manage

controllable actions on a physical level, so, Arnold

Schwarzenegger going to the gym and knowing all the reps and see

the results from the reps he put in, you control your body, and

the results are an extension of that.

Absolutely. And yeah, Schwarzenegger's story. So

you know, he talks about how that fitness aspect helped him

in the world of acting and becoming, you know, arguably the

top actor of his time then in the world of politics, and so I

can't agree more it just it blends in to every part of life

and it doesn't matter if it's extreme weightlifting, like

Arnold or running or whatever the person's thing is, but it's

finding that.

You know, in prior interviews, we focused on some

of your kind of your earlier life and how you built into

Southwestern consulting and the impact that you've had there,

I'm wondering, I guess, more recently through COVID. And in

these last few years, what are some lessons that you've taken

back and thought about the work that you wrote and Redefining

Possible and new applications, new inspirations that you've

had? Just over the last three or four years?

Man, I love the question. I think for every

listener, for each of us, like I really am more and more

convicted on the seasons of life. You know, it's crazy how I

could have spoken with you six months ago on some of these

concepts. And today be in a totally different frame of mind.

For listeners that are familiar with the book, the the

overriding theme is impact, and you cannot grow older, you can't

go through things and not think about what is my legacy? What is

significance really mean? We all know that dollars don't equal

the joy. And yet, it's still so easy to fall into that trap of

whether it's more money, a new title at work, a better race

time and my running or whatever the carrot is, is going to bring

that joy. Yeah, you and I both know, man, it just the thing

that's really going to fill that cup is the difference I believe

I'm making in the lives of others. I think I could have

known that maybe a few years ago, and but I feel like I'm in

a season now where it's like that that is it. That is the

metal, that is the thing that we're going after. And so if I

believe that, then what am I doing in my life? What are my

morning routines? What are my habits? What am I who's holding

me accountable to where I can get the best out of what I've

been given?

I've always seen you as a long term thinker. But

when you said recently, there's been a reflection on legacy.

We'll go into that a little bit more like what how have you kind

of reset legacy for yourself? Like how have you started to

reassess or refresh legacy and what's important to you?

Really, it's just more top of mind. And I wasn't

planning to go here, but they have a recurring event, every

other Monday afternoon, Ron's call with Mark Stacy. And Mark

is a mentor for 1000s of people and impact her as as joyful of a

person I've ever worked with Cindy on life with, and I got to

work closely with him. And for years, he and I had our

recurring calls, and I got to go to Austin, Texas, to travel with

them and be with them. And Mark passed away, gosh, little over a

year ago to now incredibly unexpectedly, it just you can't

go through things like that every every listener that's had

a loved one go through a terminal condition or lost a

loved one unexpectedly. And so for me, I actually keep that

recurring event, it's still on my calendar. And I don't want to

remove that because it's as much as it can kind of make me sad

for a moment. Emotional. It also reminds me of like, if

perspective is brought back instantly, I might be thinking,

Oh man, I'm behind on my goals, right? I'm this or that? Or what

was me or Gosh, our profit margin is a little off. Or it's

like, come on, stop. And perspective comes back

instantly. And so trying to have those kind of reminders in my

life daily, where it's more top of mind.

Yeah, and I think you have this ability to hold

things loosely. Like maybe you even said this analogy years

ago, and I probably heard it from you, but you grip sand too

tightly in your hand it slips through your fingers. If you if

you cradle it, it's the only way to hold that. I think that might

have been you bid but I hear that I almost in that story

where it almost like that early reminds you to hold sort of

things that maybe we think are important can hold it loosely

instead because it's not as important as that perspective.

Yea, and just even as a parent, you hold your kids

lives, ya know, it's hard to not squeeze, my kids are gonna get

good grades, they're gonna be respectful, they're gonna look

people in the eyes, and they're gonna greet people, well,

they're gonna be little athletes and et cetera, et cetera, you

know, good music and art. And so you use like, you know what, I'm

going to do the best I can. I'm gonna have a ton of faith. I'm

going to lead by example, and I'm going to hold those things

loosely. Otherwise, I put so much pressure on my dang kids,

they they turn into a little monster.

Exactly. Yeah, control you can and don't try

and control things that you can't I love that. Another

question would be of some of the principles that you bring up

redefining possible What's another one, I guess, that

you're really been focused on here over the last year or two?

I'm really into focus because I think when

you're juggling things, think of the wheel the spokes of the

wheel right you know, and I've got my my spiritual goals like

for me, my faith is this the beginning and the end, right?

It's the center obviously, my role as a husband, my role as a

dad, my role, my business role, you know, with internal clients,

all of our coaches and company external clients. So you have

all these things on your plate that I've chosen. So that's the

ownership piece. This isn't a oh my gosh, look at this is like

thank goodness, I made these choices. So I'm fully owning it,

but the focus piece is big. And just even as I talk to you,

looking down making sure my phone is upside down, there's no

lighting there's no notifications of y'all my

computer screen man, no way would it would there be a

notification pop up that would somehow Take a little bit of my

momentum or my inertia or my focus away from our

conversation, just the blinders are more and more and more

fascinated with that concept. And I love studying it with

people, learning from people that just no matter how much

they have on their plate, whenever I'm with them, they

really seem present and engaged. I would say one last part of

that is because, again, to my three kids, my twin boys are

literally just about to start getting their driver's licenses.

And so it's like, Man, I don't have a ton of time with my kids

at home. I want to have focused time with these kids. You know,

I want to make sure the time I have with my wife counts, I want

to make sure the time I have in my co workers get Yeah, you get

Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of focus, writing a

it.

book takes a lot of focus. I mean, to get your ideas on

paper, and not even second guess yourself. It's really difficult.

It's me, there's a couple questions around just writing

and putting these ideas on paper. What was the best way for

you to focus on writing that book?

Yeah, I look back now. So I would say three,

there's kind of three phases. The first was just a loose over

a couple years loosely, having a having notes of Ron's rambles I

call them and it was just little little rambles, little thoughts,

little things I wanted to study, I had no idea what I wanted to

do with them. Maybe it'd be a blog, or a video or part of some

different keynote speaking things or a book. But that was

just a number of years of just kind of collecting thoughts and

pondering and just almost journaling and writing and

processing it. That was absolutely the first part. The

second was getting myself in a room and kind of organizing the

thoughts into something that made sense. Like, if I'm

beginning with the end in mind, what is the finished product

look like? What do you want readers to take away? If no one

read it, except my three kids? And maybe their spouses someday?

Would they be proud of their dad, if this is like my journal,

and are some sort of a way to process part of my life and part

of the things I believe deeply in, essentially, what I'm

devoting my professional life, but even a lot of my personal

life, too, if I can get this organized on paper, will my kids

be proud of it? That was the second part that was there was

more of an intense focus of getting it all arranged. The

third part was evenings, where I had help and had a bit of a team

that would you know, from six to 8pm, and thankfully, my wife was

awesome. She said, Hey, you have total permission to take that

time at night, and just you know, so it was two to three

hour segments at night, where I would grab a bite of dinner with

my family, and then by six or 615 be back in my office. And it

was just book work time from like, maybe six to eight 830.

And then they'll kind of relax a little bit with my my wife and

family before bedtime. So just more spurts two to three hours a

couple of nights a week.

I always get in a place where I question whether

I'll still think what I'm putting down as important. Five

or 10 years later. You now have this perspective. I guess coming

back and adding some highlights to the book when you wrote it, I

guess how did you know that this was gonna be something that you

read again five years later and go yes, I still believe these

things are still important to me.

I think just anything that is principles like

to me trends come and go right fads come and go 30 Day diets

and clothing styles, I have a lot of old pictures of clothes

that shirt or not in style, right? But But principles are

just there. They've been there the rock, I really believe the

character traits that I want to be known for the character

traits that I wanted this book to be about, and the principles

I want it to be centered on. And really the principles that

represent Southwestern, this isn't my book, I worked hard to

put a lot into it. But this is stuff that thankfully,

southwestern has given me over 30 years. And so that was really

important as well as that making sure anything we really dove

into was things that were going to last things like vision right

having a purpose for one's life is not a come and go topic. It

has been since the beginning of time and will always be right

things like belief systems, and really rewiring thoughts and

being hyper aware of the thoughts running through my head

and how do I reframe beliefs and not let my story go into a

negative way? Those are principles that are going to be

truths, right I call them truth versus lies. I unfortunately,

like any human pick up on a lie frequently in my mind starts

doubting and fill in blame and fill and worry and anxiety and

but these are truths that bring my mind back to center. I love

that. Yeah. And then we just wanted a fun mix of some

personal stories, of course and examples and but then a lot of

his history, right, we learned from history. So a lot of

historical whether it's data and studies and actual case studies,

but But history that kind of backs up a lot of these

principles of how important they are to our lives.

100% Yeah, I love that. You know, there are a lot

of listeners that probably haven't had a chance to pick up

the book yet. I know you said you wrote it with even your own

kids in mind like would they be proud of you, but in the world

of business and the people that are listening in here, who did

you write This book for like, who are the people that are

going to pick this up, read it and go, gosh, that's exactly

what I need it?

Well, clients were top of mind through a lot of

this. And a lot of them are in sales, a lot of them are in

leadership. They lead small teams, some of lead small teams,

some of the lead companies, but at the end of the day, they're

people that that struggle with time, how do I how do I plan my

time more effectively? How do I manage my time more effectively?

How do I have boundaries and there are people that struggle

with the emotional side of being people pleasers or being control

freaks. So definitely the the clients internally and

externally. So I mentioned that earlier is you know, for us, we

hire coaches, they have this tremendous background, just as

you've got a brilliant resume and all these accolades and all

these certifications doesn't mean you don't get humbled

daily, put it that way. So I wanted this to be something that

are tools for our coaches that we can help coach on, but

obviously for our clients and, and again, stuff that people can

use not just in the boardroom, but things they could use when

they go home with their own children, or when they have

their own routines or their own quiet time where they're

wrestling with their thoughts. So that that was who it was

written for.

You know, I think you you really do exemplify what

you write about there not many people who are able to show up

at home and at work and live out things as much as you do. And

you've done a really good job being a living example. Just for

our back end of time. I wanted to do a little lightning round

of questions for you. It's kind of a fun question. I asked a lot

of folks we interview who is a person you always wanted to

meet, but never have?

It's funny I go to Troy Polamalu first, if

listeners know who that is that Google him whatever you know, as

a long, long, long time 45 year Pittsburgh Steeler fan, that's

one part of it. But way aside from that, he was the kite he is

for everything I've read, but the kindest, gentlest, calmest,

he would literally pray before every play, and yet he was

ferocious. Like if you go to go on YouTube and watch him, he was

just wreck. I mean, he was Raizy on the field and pro bowl after

Pro Bowl, all the all defense MVP, etc. So just crazy in the

field, but yet he had a way of calming himself down and the way

he treated people with so unconditional, I was read about

things he and his wife have done to impact people. And it just it

a ton of admiration for for Troy.

That's a really good one. Good balance of

humility and in prayer with aggression, that's appropriate.

Exactly.

What's something that significant, I guess, that

you've actually changed your mind about recently that you've

had a change of mind about?

I think, I think just right and wrong, it's hard

to be around politics or just divisive things. And I'm more

and more and I don't know if I like this about myself, but I'm

more and more becoming one of my co workers. He calls me

Switzerland sometimes, because we'll take aside at times. Now,

obviously, there's certain things that convictions are

like, come on, I have absolute principles and convictions I'll

die for, I'm gonna I'm gonna dig in on certain things. And a lot

of it I'm not, I'm not going to stick my flag on that I'm not

going to act like that's, I just think ego does these crazy

things to us humans where we think we have to be right, which

means they have to be wrong. Someone just as wise across the

aisle is saying the same thing about you. And so just more and

more and more, whatever the topic might be disbelieving

there can be some truth in both sides. How can we listen? And so

it's just more and more not being quick to judge quick to

speak but slower to ask questions and try to seek to

understand I don't know if it's a new principle, but it's

something I'm I have a higher conviction of lately than I did

years ago.

So you embrace the moniker Switzerland?

I do exactly. While other countries are going to

war. We're just like, hey, life's good. Like more wine more

cheese, more calm. Switzerland is happy.

What's the best piece of advice that you

ignored? Intentionally? Like when you're glad you did the one

piece of advice that maybe you've received that you didn't

take?

I think having to have data pros and cons always

have to be aligned, like logic is gonna win, always. And just

sometimes there is a gut, there's an art to as a big

baseball fan. You know, you can see that the analytical data

studies, where there's a lot of GMs that have baseball teams

that eyeball stuff. Yep, exactly. And so that's one thing

where I believe it out love data. I love trends. I love

studying analytics. And I believe there's absolutely a

world of logic. And there's times where it's like, you know

what, I'm going to trust my heart. Like there's something

there that is true and pure. And I don't want to always be a

slave to what the data says.

Really true. The pendulum swing sometimes like in

the tech sector at swing that swings all the way over to data

driven decision making, but you could dig your grave with the

amount of data there is to sift through and analyze and in data

at the same time ends up as being numbers we know that tells

a good portion of the story, but you can wrongly interpret data

and unpack it incorrectly.

There is an art. I think it's the art and the

science. Both are great things. And again, maybe that's the

Switzerland in me. But art or science, it's both.

What's your current morning routine?

So you know, bathroom routine, come out, 30

seconds with my dog, I literally get on the steps and just

literally hug my dog and like lay with them and just kind of,

and then come down, feed the animals. And I come into my

office as then I lay on my office floor at about a 15

minute stretchy routine that just helps you know, some back

situations and some stuff with my dog. So it's quiet time with

my coach where I'm stretching and relaxing. And he does his

downward dog and his stretching. And then depending on the day,

he either gets a quick walk and I go to the gym, or I take a we

grab the leash, which of course he goes crazy for meaning we get

to go for a run and the trails that's absolutely morning

routine that it's back. By that time, my daughter's up and my

wife's up and the kids are up and whatnot and get to see the

family and then kind of get ready and ready for the day.

Nothing crazy.

Nope, that's perfect. And stretching, I think

is a big thing that I'm missing.

Yes. And I'll just quickly add to it the physical

side of course, but it's it's way deeper, I believe that

spiritual, the emotional, the physical, the mental, all four

components, that helps me with my my shoulders drop. And even

in the middle of the day, when when anxiety or stress starts to

add up having a quick routine, you know, maybe just after

lunch, or the two o'clock, 10 minute break, or something where

I can go out and kind of re stretch in a way maybe not the

same as I did in the morning, my breathing changes the tone of

voice, the calmness, like I said, the posture that, you

know, I can have neck issues or whatever. And so I think it

really does get your art, right. So it's because I've stretched

where my mind is in 18 different places, and I'm scrolling apps

and I'm my mental side is not there. And it's not nearly as

effective. But when I stretch with breathing, and with

calmness and with no distractions and just being

there with my dog, there's something more there's a deeper

level of health that comes from it.

Have you ever hired like a trainer or a coach

of some kind, like business or physical related to like prepare

for something?

Yes, not as much as I'd like to say I have. So I've

hired some trainers to help with, like, even physical

therapists, for example, definitely, I've hired physical

therapists not reactionary because I've got an injury but

more proactively to help me with preventative things from my back

or my hips or my knees or, you know, as I get older, and

you're, if I'm training for 100 mile race this August, and I'm

gonna spend a lot of time how do i proactively prevent injury

versus reactively? Do it. So I've done a lot of that kind of

thing for sure.

That's awesome. Probably a good analogy for

business coaching, too, is that so many people gravitate towards

coaching or help when it's already, not necessarily too

late. But the problems already become so painful, that they're

scrambling for a need, there's probably a lot of value to

preventative maintenance in every area of your life. Right?

Do you really want you know, marital counseling, when it's

really, really needed? Or do you want to get ahead of that,

right? I mean, there's lots of examples.

And in all seriousness, like I cannot agree

more, and it's painful to think of all the times I've made the

mistake of the opposite. Let me not act in any way. Like I've

been some proactive person my whole life. No way, messed it up

so much. But now it's like, I won't be able to do that

training. But I also still want to play basketball with my boys

every weekend. I want to be able to run with my daughter and do

things and keep up with them. And it's getting tougher, y'all

but it's like, I still can rock one on one with my twins. And

it's like, I wanna be able to do that and not you know, when they

have their kids, I want to go play with my grandkids some day.

So there's some deep emotional Of course, that's back to the

vision board type stuff. deep emotional purpose behind this,

that has sparked the action in hiring the PT on the on the

front end.

Yeah, it's really cool. This has been a really

insightful and energizing interview just spent a lot of

really great anecdotes and stories, things that I hadn't

heard before. And I think our listeners are gonna love hearing

this reading your book and and so on that last point. Where can

people find Redefining Possible?

So of course Amazon any any book selling places

there are southwest your websites so

SouthwesternConsulting.com or my own, RonAlfordSWC.com. Any of

those are good. Yeah. Even on my Instagram or LinkedIn or those

places that it has links for it.

Coaching, training, speaking, Ron does it

all here you can find more info on all those same places for

that as well. Right?

Correct. It's fun to learn with and that's why I

love being a part of this as we get to talk through stuff.

That's okay. I've got more focus and energy for my days. So

thanks for having me on talking about all this.

Yeah, you got it Ron, appreciate the time.