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Mia Hobbs: Hello, and welcome to
the why I knit podcast. My name

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is Dr. Mia Hobbs, and I'm a
clinical psychologist who's

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passionate about knitting and
its benefits for our mental

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health. Each week on the
podcast, I interview a different

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knitter about why they knit and
how it benefits their well

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being. This is the last episode
of Series one, and I'm very

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lucky to be joined by Dana
Williams Johnson or DW J, who is

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a Professor of Marketing and a
passionate knitter of sweaters

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for humans and very small dogs.
You can find out more about Dana

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by reading her blog at www dot
yards of happiness.com. She's

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also on Instagram at call me DW
J. You can find a link to Dana's

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blog, and any of the yarns and
patterns we discussed in the

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show notes.

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Hi, Dana, welcome to the
podcast.

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DWJ: Hello, hello.

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Mia Hobbs: So I always start
with asking about where your

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story with knitting began.

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DWJ: Um, so I learned it's only
been about 11 years I think. I,

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I've always been crafty. And but
never I've never done anything

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really with yarn before I can
sew, a big papercraft person, I

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paint place for a long time.
And, but I didn't know anybody

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who knit that or crochet. In
fact, actually, I didn't know

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someone crochet but she never
crochet in front of me. And so I

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just never my best friend I find
out later on crochet. Like,

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what, um, so I started this new
job. And I kind of needed I was

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at that phase in my life where I
hadn't figured out 100% still

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what I really wanted to do, I
think I was, I'm a late bloomer,

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in terms of career, I'm good at
lots of things. But there was

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nothing that like my husband is
an engineer has always known and

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wanted to be an engineer and
absolutely loves his job, and I

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never had that in my life. Until
I started teaching. And so I was

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like, Well, I'm doing this job.
And it's pay is great. hours are

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easy, like, I'm learning some
new stuff, but I need something

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really creative. So I got one of
those Groupon deals were like,

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discounted to get. And it was
for Knitting Lessons in a

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knitting shop in DC that doesn't
exist anymore. And I said to my

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mom, like, I think I'm gonna
take Knitting Lessons. And I

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always tell the story, because
she said to me, you don't need

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another craft. You don't need to
learn nothing. You don't need to

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spend money, on anything. I was
like rude. And then, like a week

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after I said that, she was like,
Can You knit me this hat? You

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literally just said to me, like,
I assume you ignore me like

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always. Okay. So I signed up for
lessons.

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And it took a little bit for me
to kind of get it. But once I

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got it, I was hooked. And that
was kind of it for me. And I had

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a teacher who really like, like,
I was an intro knitting class,

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but it learned very quickly how
to do cables and knitting in the

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round. Like, she was kind of
really aggressive.

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But I think it kind of helped
give me a little bit of

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confidence, because you just
kind of go into like, well, I

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guess I can do this, like, I can
do anything. Um, but I also took

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it upon myself to like, usually
once a year, I take class

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because of that. So every year
for the last year, usually at my

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local yarn shop, I sign up for
some type of class, to learn

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some new skills, some new thing,
or if I want, like when I wanted

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to get into sweater knitting, I
took a intro sweater knitting

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class, I can ask all the
questions.

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And so for because I'm realised
I'm nerdy in that way. And then

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I love education. I mean, um,
and so if that's what knitting

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is, for me, it's there's a,
like, before you started

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recording we were talking about,
there's always something that

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you can learn. So I don't feel
bad when I'm like, Oh, I haven't

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learned that yet. Because I'm
like, I'll get there. Like I've

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been saying forever. I really
want to do something with

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intarsia it hasn't happened yet,
will it? Yeah.

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I think it would just be I have
to find the right project that

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has excited me to say

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Mia Hobbs: it's such a great
idea to do a class of something

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new once a year. So is it always
knitting related? Or could it be

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something completely random that
you've never done before? Like,

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ceramics or

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DWJ: For me it's always been
knitting, okay. Like when I took

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a class a year, but I am also
one of those people who

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encourages people to take
classes. So like

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be away from me for four to six
hours. So he was like, learn to

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play golf with me. So I signed
up into Clemson. So I play golf.

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Um, so anytime there's something
we're like, Hmm, I love Creole

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food. I love to cook. So when we
travelled to New Orleans, I take

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cooking lessons.

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It's the thing of, I don't know
how to do it. But there's

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usually somebody out there who
can teach me Yeah.

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Mia Hobbs: So you love to learn.

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DWJ: I love to learn. So like,
lets take advantage of that.

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Like if somebody is willing,
someone, I'm not the best Sewer.

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And I have a follower who is in
the area, an older woman who I

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see all the time and help her
out with stuff. And she's an

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amazing Sewer. And I happen to
say one day on Instagram, like,

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I would love to make a quilted
coat. Like, I wish my skills are

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up to par. And she was like, I
have a long arm quilting machine

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at my house. So it's just like,
I'm 100% can make that with you.

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She's like, I can help you. So
I'm all about like, Oh, if

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you're willing to teach me. I'm
all for it.

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Mia Hobbs: Yeah. Oh, that's
great. And was there something

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special about knitting that
this? I mean, I don't know if it

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is your main craft now. But was
there something particular that

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you think that hooked you in to
it?

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DWJ: I think I am a person who I
enjoy being alone. And I can do

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it my by myself. And I don't,
you can literally just be me in

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a ball yarn and needles, and I
can take it anywhere.

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And so for me, I think that was
the thing that hasn't made it my

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main craft that I always have
some knitting with me. Yeah. And

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I can whip out a hat or cowl. Or
maybe I'm working on a sweater

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or you know, like, so it's
constantly with me, my students

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know when I'm proctoring exams,
I walk around the room while I'm

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knitting. And it's, it's
soothing for me, it calms

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nerves, it helps.

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I think I've always had anxiety
since I was a kid. So I think

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for me, it can also be um and a
good way to kind of relieve some

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of my anxiety.

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I talked once about how when my
dad died I was knitting

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something, when you know, people
come to your house and like pay

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their respects and all that. And
instead of asking the obvious

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questions about how are you
feeling and loss when you know

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you feel horrible. So they asked
me about what I was knitting.

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And it made it a little bit
easier to have conversations and

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to be present with people
instead of focusing on that

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thing that was kind of weighing
you down.

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Mia Hobbs: Yeah. And does it
matter what you knit? Like, is

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all knitting equal? Or does it
make a difference? What it is?

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DWJ: I don't think it matters. I
mean, I have an affinity for

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sweaters.

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Like thats My you know, I mean,
I tell you, every knitter has a

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thing. I don't get people who
knit socks like that. Just, I

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have absolutely zero.

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But what is

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Mia Hobbs: it about socks? Is it
the process or the end result?

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DWJ: I love and here's the thing
I love a knit sock? Yeah. And I

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have friends who knit me thought
and I'm giving it five gifts. I

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have absolutely zero desire to
knit a sock for myself. I just

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don't. And as much as I knit and
make. I think it's the tiny

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needles and the tiny yarn.

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It's not appealing. I would buy
a sock machine before I would

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knit.

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Mia Hobbs: Okay, that's
interesting. So is a bit about

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the process?

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DWJ: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would
totally like I've looked at

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whenever I see somebody was
really gorgeous sock knitting

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machines I wanna do that. She's
like well, my not gonna knit a

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sock. Okay. fortunately, I have
a really good girlfriend who has

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given me like a couple pairs of
socks. Yeah, like, as long as I

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have good friends. It's fine.

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Mia Hobbs: dYeah, you don't need
to knit them yourself. Yeah, so

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sweaters are your main love.
Would you say

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DWJ: sweaters are my main love?
Yeah. And I associate you with

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some with some bright coloured
like combinations of colours

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like

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it. I think it's that colour is
such a mood booster and so like

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this is the audio podcast but
you can see me in . You can See

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my house?  And there's a lot of
artwork, um, and growing up, my

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parents always encouraged that
in me, because I always would

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draw and paint. And, you know, I
remember being a kid and getting

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to pick the paint colours and
the carpet colours for the wall.

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My mom was like, I hate it. And
my dad was like, but it's her

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room

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Mia Hobbs: so they encourages
that form of self expression for

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you.

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DWJ: Yeah. He was always like,
but it's her room. It's her one

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little space. And it really
makes her happy. So let us just

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let her have that. Um, and I
know, my mom. Never. It was

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always just a minor I parent and
it's funny because I grew up in

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a house. I think my parents have
really great taste, but it's

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very classic and very, like
neutral than me. I'm like, I

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want to paint this wall teal.
Yeah. And my ceilings are mint

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and it's, um, fortunately, my
husband kind of just goes with

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it like, sure. Dana loves
colour. Um, but I think wearing

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all black, like, when I wear all
black to work people have asked,

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Are you okay, whats wrong.

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Because it is so rare. I went
years not owning a pair of black

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pants,

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I can't get through this. Um,
and I just think it makes you

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your wardrobe way happier. I am
sometimes envious of like people

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who have like, a colour palette
and are like, I wear like these

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five colours, because my
wardrobe is essentially a

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rainbow. I'm always like, I'll
figure out some combos today.

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But I just think it makes me way
happier to knit things.

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Especially rainbows. Like I love
a good rainbow. So to knit

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things that have so much kind of
joy and levity to them.

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Mia Hobbs: So it sounds like
that affects your mood while

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you're making the garment. But
also when you then get to wear

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it.

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DWJ: Yeah yarn is beautiful, I
think Yeah. Especially indie

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dyed skeins are like little
works of art. And I got recently

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I bought myself a sweater
quantity for Christmas of the La

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Bien Aimee confetti yarn that

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Mia Hobbs: yeah.

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DWJ: Whoa, a little bit. Yeah.
And I, I asked people for like

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suggestions for patterns and
stuff online. I know when I

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think about it in the day, like,
I just want something that's

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gonna showcase how beautiful
that yarn is. And and that you

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can see all the little flecks
and I don't want that to get

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lost.

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Mia Hobbs: Yeah. Did you decide
on a pattern?

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DWJ: I'm not 100% I'm also like,
I have so much yarn and so many

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patterns and projects that I'm
considering or thinking about

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and my hand is a little academic
life in all my typing is not

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helping

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Mia Hobbs: Oh, okay.

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DWJ: So I'm trying to get my
hand a little bit of rest, as

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I'm like halfway through a
sweater from my husband. I just

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want to make this the body on
this sweater but my hand like no

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mam, we're not doing it

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Mia Hobbs: That must be quite
difficult, then if you can't

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knit as much as you'd like to.

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DWJ: I think there's well this
year I have knit the least in

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that and learn and a lot of it
was I've been I've been ill. And

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then because I'd had illness.
And I had I had multiple

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pulmonary embolisms, um, and
because of that, I, I have

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insane fatigue sometimes. And so
I literally will get through the

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day. And it's like, I'm just
glad that I made it home and I'm

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still standing. And then I tell
my husband like I'm just a

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potato on the couch like I can't
do anything because I haven't

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knit as much. I had a bit of a
brief moment in November where I

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felt super like knitting
energised. And then once

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Thanksgiving hit. And I had
multiple papers. And then I just

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finished comps so much typing
and I know every year all the

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typing affects my joints and all
that so I have to be mindful of

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that because I tell people like
it isn't necessarily about being

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an academic writing. I want to
be able to knit.

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Mia Hobbs: Yeah, yeah, does it.
I mean, I feel like I would find

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it difficult to not be able to
do the, the thing that like you

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said, kind of gives me joy and
makes me feel calmer. If I'm

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stressed  Maybe you're more used
to managing that.

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DWJ: Um, I'll say that. So this
year has changed my perspective

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on a lot of things.  I mean, I'm
fairly young, I'm 43. And you

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don't expect to have a major
life event at 43.

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Mia Hobbs: mmmm

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DWJ: And, I mean, I was
essentially told, what I came in

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with is what most people die
from. When you find out we hear

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people die from pulmonary
embolism, and disability because

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of the level of embolisms, that
I had had a massive one,

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restricting blood flow right out
of my heart, so my body wasn't

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getting enough oxygen. And then
my lungs were riddled with clots

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like, riddled. So for me to have
made it as far as I had before

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being hospitalised was kind of
miraculous. And so I'd say about

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two weeks before I went to
hospital,

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I'd stopped knitting. And I also
stopped talking as much which is

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hard to do when you're a
professor but I talked only when

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I had to, and found ways to
really engage students in my

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classroom to do the talking so
that I wouldn't have to. And so

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I kind of switched over a little
bit and had started working in

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polymer clay.

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And which is a medium that I
worked on before. But I had seen

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some fun things on Instagram, I
wanted to make like jewellery

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and things like that. So I kind
of switched over, because I

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realised, now I did not have
enough oxygen in my body. So I

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did not have the brainpower to
read a knitting pattern.

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Which I couldn't, I didn't know
that at the time. Um, and

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Polymer Clay don't follow
patterns, or you don't, I could

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just sit down at the table and
make whatever. And so when you

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realise after going through all
that, like when I was in

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hospital, I legit was just
trying to survive, and, and

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you're just kind of there. And,
you know, people are like, Oh,

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I'm terrified of needles, and I
hate all that. You, when you

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have someone slice into your
neck artery while you're awake,

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anything is possible.

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And you stop being afraid of
certain things. And so I had to

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I had to come to the realisation
when I came out of hospital, how

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sick I was, and how long the
recovery I had had. So they give

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you about a year before you are
expected to feel normal. And I

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spent three months of the
summer, essentially waiting for

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my heart to go back to normal,
which meant a lot of rest. A lot

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of naps. And so my husband I
think was the person who noted

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like, a couple weeks out of the
hospital, I finally picked

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Polymer clear. And so I saw him
like grinning, and I'm like what

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he goes, you're just being
creative. And I'm happy about

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that. Like, I haven't seen this
in weeks. he's like, so this is

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positive. And I would look at my
knitting and I would want to do

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it.

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Your blood oxygen levels aren't
still normal. So clearly, you're

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not. And like if people were
like, how are you in grad school

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and teaching? And I was like,
Well, things, I stopped doing

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certain things because I
couldn't, I wasn't functioning.

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So I think this year, I realised
like, I have to have patience

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with myself. Yeah, i'm a fairly
patient person. But I'm also

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very efficient and like I do
things for myself. So learning

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to be more patient with myself
has been something that I've

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dealt with this year. And now
I'm getting frustrated when I

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can't do the things I want to
do, because there's so many

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things that I can do now that I
couldn't do six months ago.

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Mia Hobbs: Yeah. So you're
really focusing on the process

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of recovery and trying to give
yourself time for that.

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DWJ: And sometimes you have to
remind yourself of that, like,

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Yeah, we had to travel and do
things and I was exhausted. But

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I was like, but you know what,
two months ago, I would not have

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been able to walk up that hill.

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Mia Hobbs: Hmm.

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DWJ: And so let's be happy that
I walked up that hill today.

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And, and me and my husband is
great at reminding me of those

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little things and being like,
Oh, you've done so much better

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like, because I think he knows
me so intimately and has seen me

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at the absolute lowest in the
hospital. So he knows like, this

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is progress. So eventually, like
I was hospitalised early May. I

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think I started knitting again.
About six weeks out so mid June

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into July. So that was, that was
a while.

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Mia Hobbs: Yeah.

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DWJ: I was like, okay, yeah, do
it. And then I will go. Let me

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read the instructions. Let me
just read it through. And now

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still doesn't make sense yet. So
me give myself time. So it's

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about it's been about patience
for me.

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Mia Hobbs: Yeah. And I guess one
of the things that when we talk

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about therapeutic knitting one
of the I think the reasons we

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think knitting is helpful is
because you can break it down

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into quite small steps. And it
kind of makes it more

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accessible, I think, in some
ways. So for example, if

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someone's feeling really low, or
like you, when you were

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struggling to get back in, that
you could do a teeny tiny

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amount, I suppose. Unlike other,
it might be hard to start, I

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don't know much about painting,
but to start painting and only

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paint a tiny piece of a canvas
or something. Whereas knitting,

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like if you're doing a couple of
stitches, or like winding a ball

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of yarn, you are still making
progress towards the end thing,

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even if it's in a very small
increment of what you can manage

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in a given day, I suppose.

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DWJ: Yeah, I mean, even for me,
when I wasn't on pre embolisms.

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Even if I could just do a row at
night, I will be like, I feel

316
00:21:36,220 --> 00:21:40,510
accomplished. Like I got at
least I got in a couple stitches

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00:21:40,510 --> 00:21:43,150
tonight. Before I went to bed,
like it was a long day, I just

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want to let something go. Let me
just get a couple rows in and

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then I'll feel a little bit
better. Yeah. So I do think that

320
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is part of the beauty of it is
that you kind of constantly

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working on this thing. And to
me, I think it's all still like,

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it's all a little bit of being
an artist and a work of art. I

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definitely think of knitting is
an art form. And

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Mia Hobbs: I was gonna ask you
about that as somebody who has

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an art kind of background about
whether knitting is an art form

326
00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:11,680
for you, because I never quite
know for myself?

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DWJ: No, I think it is I think
we all you and I can pick the

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exact same pattern.

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Mia Hobbs: Yeah.

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DWJ: And interpret in so many
different ways. From the yarn

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choices to maybe you make your
sweater with long sleeves, and

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I'm going to go short, maybe you
decided you want to in some

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waist shaping, or some bust
darts. Or I'm like now I want to

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make it oversized, or you're
like I want this to be really

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fitted. I think

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it is such an individual thing.
And we each get to put our own

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spin on it. Like I love I love
because people always like oh,

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00:22:46,980 --> 00:22:50,730
do you should design patterns?
No, I love other people writing

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00:22:50,730 --> 00:22:53,610
patterns and their designs and
the vision in the ideas that

340
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they have. And then how I get to
interpret that from

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Mia Hobbs: Yeah. And without
doing the maths.

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DWJ: Without doing all that I
don't want to do grading one of

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my girlfriends to do that. And
I'm like no, and I'm and we made

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00:23:06,690 --> 00:23:12,120
her make us design a pattern for
us for Rhinebeck with you. Like

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00:23:12,150 --> 00:23:15,510
make us a sweater. Thank you.
And she did all the work.

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Mia Hobbs: Yeah, the closest
I've ever got was actually this

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00:23:19,260 --> 00:23:22,440
sweater that I'm wearing now,
which is a like, you know, Tin

348
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,510
Can knits Strange Brew.

349
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DWJ: Oh, yeah,

350
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Mia Hobbs: but I just added
these kind of like snowflakes to

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00:23:28,570 --> 00:23:29,980
make it a bit more, you know,

352
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DWJ: I like it though

353
00:23:30,510 --> 00:23:33,073
Mia Hobbs: Christmassy, thank
you. But there was quite a lot

354
00:23:33,125 --> 00:23:36,421
of maths involved. And that was
a sense of achievement. I got a

355
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bit different than the way I
normally get a sense of

356
00:23:39,246 --> 00:23:42,438
achievement from knitting. But
that was probably enough as it

357
00:23:42,490 --> 00:23:43,380
happened. For me.

358
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DWJ: I have some books and some
formulas. So sometimes I will. I

359
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,490
love saddle, shoulders. Okay.
Yeah. Not a bunch of people make

360
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patterns like that. So I will
often do that for myself. And

361
00:23:57,130 --> 00:24:00,940
like I have kind of a standard
pattern and again, and so people

362
00:24:00,940 --> 00:24:04,090
are like, oh, you should and I'm
like I'm going off of bits and

363
00:24:04,090 --> 00:24:08,620
pieces from a book and slicing
things together. Yeah. I'm not

364
00:24:08,620 --> 00:24:11,890
designing this. Like I can make
anything from my bust size.

365
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,110
Yeah. You want to ask me to make
it for somebody else? No, but

366
00:24:17,110 --> 00:24:19,240
it's my bust size. I got you.

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Mia Hobbs: Yeah. Yeah. Fair
enough. I'm interested in the

368
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,610
thing you said about patience.
Because I think I certainly I

369
00:24:27,610 --> 00:24:29,800
don't know whether you do
people, lots of people say

370
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,230
you're you're much more patient
than I am. I couldn't wouldn't

371
00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:35,260
ever have the patience for
knitting, and associate patience

372
00:24:35,260 --> 00:24:37,840
with knitting. And it sounds
like you've felt like you've had

373
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to use a lot of patience in your
recovery. I wonder whether you

374
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feel like patience is something
knitters have, did you get more

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patient through knitting or is
that just something people say?

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DWJ: Something people say
because I think if you want

377
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something you will be patient
for it. A lot of things that you

378
00:24:56,060 --> 00:24:59,540
want or need don't aren't
instantaneous. I also think and

379
00:24:59,540 --> 00:25:03,230
because I deal with students
that we're in a culture right

380
00:25:03,230 --> 00:25:07,700
now, instant gratification and
immediacy, you know, students

381
00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:10,250
are always asking like, Well,
how did you all do such as that

382
00:25:10,250 --> 00:25:12,650
for you and your undergrad? I'm
like, well, first of all, we

383
00:25:12,650 --> 00:25:15,350
didn't have Ubers. I couldn't
call a con man, like, I had to

384
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:19,550
make a plan. We had to figure
these things out. We didn't all

385
00:25:19,550 --> 00:25:25,640
have cell phones. Um, so I think
I am patient in that respect.

386
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,740
I've always kind of been a
patient person when it comes to

387
00:25:27,740 --> 00:25:33,860
things that I want. And so I
think when people see other

388
00:25:33,860 --> 00:25:36,770
knitters and are, like, oh, I
can never do it. I think people

389
00:25:36,770 --> 00:25:40,970
are just intimidated. It seems
like it's this really complex

390
00:25:40,970 --> 00:25:43,970
thing, because I remember seeing
it for the first time, like, how

391
00:25:43,970 --> 00:25:47,210
long do people get it to do
that, and it become this thing,

392
00:25:47,210 --> 00:25:52,490
but, um, I mean, it just takes a
little bit of practice. And then

393
00:25:52,490 --> 00:25:55,550
I'll have to tell my students
that do. I wasn't a sweater

394
00:25:55,550 --> 00:25:59,960
knitter on day one, everybody
makes a crappy potholder or a

395
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:05,120
scarf with really big holes in
it. Yeah. And you have to accept

396
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,290
that, um, and especially like,
I'm, I am a person that's very

397
00:26:09,290 --> 00:26:14,570
much a perfectionist. I can be a
little bit anal about things.

398
00:26:15,740 --> 00:26:18,440
And so I had to let that go in
knitting,

399
00:26:18,620 --> 00:26:19,100
Mia Hobbs: okay.

400
00:26:20,740 --> 00:26:24,520
DWJ: And that that took a little
bit for me, but to realise like,

401
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,400
the perfection is in the
practice. And then I'm better

402
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,300
now. Because I know how I have
more confidence, I can fix a

403
00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:40,810
dropped stitch, I can see my
mistakes and frog back. And I

404
00:26:40,810 --> 00:26:44,890
think the beauty in it is that
if I really really mess it up, I

405
00:26:44,890 --> 00:26:49,210
just unravel it. Yeah. And
sometimes I think it's people

406
00:26:49,210 --> 00:26:52,930
like, it's just such a waste of
time. But it isn't, if you learn

407
00:26:52,930 --> 00:26:57,850
from it and like, again, I go
back to like, I like learning.

408
00:26:57,910 --> 00:27:02,410
Yeah. And so as long as I'm
learning and getting something

409
00:27:02,410 --> 00:27:06,790
out of it, then there's joy to
be had at that. And I think we

410
00:27:06,790 --> 00:27:11,350
missed that. Sometimes I have a
class that I teach students, and

411
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:15,730
I'm like, the goal is for you to
make mistakes, and learn from

412
00:27:15,730 --> 00:27:19,150
the mistake that you make.
Because it's the problem solving

413
00:27:19,150 --> 00:27:23,920
class so I'm, like, you all are
so afraid that you're gonna give

414
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,460
me the wrong answer that you
just don't do it. Like you won't

415
00:27:27,460 --> 00:27:31,330
show me the work you want. And
the goal is, I want to see

416
00:27:31,330 --> 00:27:35,470
multiple tries, I want to see
how you attempted to do it the

417
00:27:35,470 --> 00:27:39,250
first time to then figure out
where you went wrong. And if you

418
00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:45,220
don't make the mistake, I can't
help you like I can't. And so I

419
00:27:45,220 --> 00:27:47,890
often have to, and I had a
really good semester with them

420
00:27:47,950 --> 00:27:50,980
this year, because I really kept
pressing like, no, no, I want to

421
00:27:50,980 --> 00:27:54,700
see the mistakes. Like I want to
see the mistakes, I need to see

422
00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:59,350
all the work. But I think that's
the really hard part for people

423
00:27:59,350 --> 00:28:02,590
that to kind of get to them
mistakes or how we learn like

424
00:28:02,590 --> 00:28:06,100
it's okay, you don't have to be
perfect. And because we're in

425
00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:13,120
such a social media perfection,
ultra filtered world. Um, it

426
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:16,720
makes it hard for people to
understand or process that and

427
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,270
I'm like, that's how you grow.
It's ok.

428
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:21,810
Mia Hobbs: And I think
certainly, that's something that

429
00:28:21,810 --> 00:28:24,780
knitting has helped me with. And
I think in the therapeutic

430
00:28:24,780 --> 00:28:28,200
knitting groups I've been
running we have been focusing on

431
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,020
like, the worst thing that can
happen, but you still got unless

432
00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:34,050
you get the scissors out, you
still got what you started with,

433
00:28:34,350 --> 00:28:38,490
which is a ball of yarn and the
needles. And, and that is a kind

434
00:28:38,490 --> 00:28:42,330
of, in a way, a place for making
safe mistakes. Like because how

435
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,270
wrong can it possibly go with
knitting?

436
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,980
DWJ: My husband is really good.
Because he knows me and I'm

437
00:28:49,980 --> 00:28:54,960
anxious and I will be like, when
we first got a dog, and like

438
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,930
we'd be late or stuck in
traffic, and he'll be like,

439
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,580
Okay, what is what's the worst
thing that can happen? Now, like

440
00:29:02,580 --> 00:29:07,140
what should poop in the house?
And he goes, Okay, so how do we

441
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:09,660
how do you fix them? Like, why
me? I would just clean it up

442
00:29:09,660 --> 00:29:15,180
like that. Okay, so let that go.
And understand that. If we're

443
00:29:15,180 --> 00:29:19,110
late, she might have accident,
but we have the tools and means

444
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:23,490
to clean it up. Yeah, and she'll
still be fine. Like, she's not

445
00:29:23,490 --> 00:29:27,270
gonna starve to death. We're 30
minutes late coming home. Um,

446
00:29:27,810 --> 00:29:30,240
he's like, she'll probably be
even more excited when you walk

447
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:36,600
in the door. So he, he is very
good at refocusing me and saying

448
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,220
like, Okay, tell me the worst
thing that can happen. And how

449
00:29:41,220 --> 00:29:45,540
then, do you have how do you
overcome that hurdle once you

450
00:29:45,540 --> 00:29:48,150
get there, which is one of the
things I did do a lot with, like

451
00:29:48,150 --> 00:29:52,170
before school started after
having kind of been out of the

452
00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:55,710
game for three months. He was
like, tell me all the things

453
00:29:55,710 --> 00:30:00,210
that you're afraid of. And then
let's figure out how we resolve

454
00:30:00,210 --> 00:30:05,610
Those fears. Um, and that was a
great exercise for him to sit

455
00:30:05,610 --> 00:30:07,860
down and be like, well, these
are the things that make me

456
00:30:07,860 --> 00:30:11,910
nervous. Okay. Think about
solutions and how we make it

457
00:30:11,910 --> 00:30:14,400
better. Or maybe only the
practice if he things before

458
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,640
school starts. So you feel more
comfortable like that. And so I

459
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,600
think that's how I feel to a
knitting is that. Alright, this

460
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,520
cable looks insane. And I'm a
little nervous. Let me practice.

461
00:30:26,580 --> 00:30:29,400
Yeah, let me let me try this
out. You know, that's what I

462
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,520
tell people too with swatches
like, that's why swatches are

463
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,420
helpful. Yeah, give you a chance
to see how something's gonna

464
00:30:36,420 --> 00:30:39,120
react or respond. And then you
can figure out if thats the

465
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,000
right needle, if that's the
right technique, or maybe it's

466
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,410
not the project for you at that
time.

467
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,040
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. And do you have
more than one thing on the go at

468
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,480
once if you got projects for
different?

469
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:48,810
DWJ: Always!

470
00:30:50,490 --> 00:30:52,650
Mia Hobbs: And are they
different, for different I don't

471
00:30:52,650 --> 00:30:55,410
know, moods or different
situations in your life where

472
00:30:55,410 --> 00:30:56,880
you need a different type of
project.

473
00:30:57,780 --> 00:31:03,060
DWJ: I'm usually I have multiple
sweaters going on at once.

474
00:31:04,770 --> 00:31:08,820
Because they require different
things at different times. So I

475
00:31:08,820 --> 00:31:12,570
like a sweater will have like, a
lot of stockinette in the body

476
00:31:12,570 --> 00:31:15,300
where I don't have to really
look that great for just some

477
00:31:15,300 --> 00:31:19,470
mindless knitting. Whereas if
I'm just starting a sweater,

478
00:31:19,470 --> 00:31:23,220
maybe I have to pay a little bit
more attention to my increases,

479
00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:29,340
I'm building out the yoke. Two
colour brioche when I'm really

480
00:31:29,340 --> 00:31:33,450
stressed, because it makes me
take my mind off of whatever it

481
00:31:33,450 --> 00:31:36,240
is that I was thinking about and
makes me focus on the project at

482
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:36,840
hand.

483
00:31:38,340 --> 00:31:40,230
Mia Hobbs: So you'll gravitate
towards something more

484
00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:42,780
complicated if you're really
stressed, and you need to kind

485
00:31:42,780 --> 00:31:44,430
of Yeah, same

486
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:53,580
DWJ: yeah, it helps me recenter
and say like, I need to not

487
00:31:53,580 --> 00:31:56,370
think about this for 30 minutes.
Let me pick this up. Because

488
00:31:56,370 --> 00:31:58,530
then I'm gonna have to really
look at this because I don't

489
00:31:58,530 --> 00:31:59,760
want to mess this up. Yeah.

490
00:32:00,660 --> 00:32:04,530
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. It's kind of a
bit of an escape from stress.

491
00:32:04,890 --> 00:32:09,240
DWJ: Yeah, and then just have
stuff like I get. I get in the

492
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,880
mood. I'm like, I just really
wanted to knit a colourwork

493
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:18,840
sweater. Yeah. Or I just really
want to use the yarn. Um, and

494
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,360
I've had moments where like,
yarn will arrive and I'm like,

495
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,380
well, casting on something else
immediately. Um, I actually got

496
00:32:25,380 --> 00:32:28,200
some, some boucle yarn
yesterday. And I'm like, Well,

497
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,390
I'm gonna make a hat.it's cold,

498
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:37,950
Mia Hobbs: yeah. Yeah. I always
ask about a significant knitting

499
00:32:37,950 --> 00:32:38,790
project.

500
00:32:39,870 --> 00:32:44,190
DWJ: Um, I always love. I always
love for my mom

501
00:32:44,790 --> 00:32:45,330
Mia Hobbs: for your mom.

502
00:32:46,530 --> 00:32:52,080
DWJ: She always, always always
gets excited. No, it can be a

503
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,260
wrap can be a sweater, it
doesn't matter.

504
00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:57,210
Mia Hobbs: She's not a knitter.

505
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:03,600
DWJ: No, no, no one else in my
family is, um, so anytime I make

506
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,600
her something, there is this
level of joy and excitement from

507
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:17,070
my mother that is so genuine and
so. So pure. And it's that it's

508
00:33:17,070 --> 00:33:19,620
that thing where you're like,
This is why you make something

509
00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:22,800
for other people because they
genuinely like get it and love

510
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,210
it. And she wants to tell
everyone that her daughter made

511
00:33:27,210 --> 00:33:32,940
it for her. So I made her a
sweater called a. simmetrie that

512
00:33:32,940 --> 00:33:38,700
I love. That was a little bit
complex for me. And she wore it

513
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:41,790
the first time she had to travel
out of town after my dad passed

514
00:33:41,790 --> 00:33:46,890
away. And a woman she was
sitting eating in a hotel bar by

515
00:33:46,890 --> 00:33:50,820
herself. And a woman came up to
her and asked her if she had

516
00:33:50,820 --> 00:33:55,020
knit that sweater. And she said
no but my daughter did. And

517
00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:57,510
turns out the woman was like a
knitting instructor and Blah

518
00:33:57,510 --> 00:34:00,330
blah and she ended up sitting
down having lunch with my mom

519
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,080
and my mom made a friend. And it
was just one of those things

520
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,320
where it's like something that
you knit that brings my mom

521
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:11,670
comfort and excitement but then
also found find a way to like,

522
00:34:12,090 --> 00:34:17,130
connect her to other people. Um,
she's also notorious for talking

523
00:34:17,130 --> 00:34:20,040
to people in public when she
sees other people knitting like,

524
00:34:20,220 --> 00:34:24,270
well my daughter knits and then
I'll get like Instagram message

525
00:34:24,270 --> 00:34:33,090
like I met your mom today. Um,
and so that that 100% Makes me

526
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,920
feel incredibly special and that
I understand that she

527
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:43,500
appreciates what I make her so
she's probably my favourite

528
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:46,200
person to knit for and she's
hilarious because like I'll wear

529
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,400
a sweater I was FaceTiming her
the other day. And I had on a

530
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,950
new sweater that I made for
myself. And like we're in the

531
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:54,900
middle of talking about
something else and she goes. And

532
00:34:54,900 --> 00:34:56,880
that sweater you're wearing is
real cute.

533
00:34:57,900 --> 00:35:00,870
Mia Hobbs: is that her way of
placing an order

534
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,738
DWJ: That was her hint so I too
would like that sweater w'm

535
00:35:03,808 --> 00:35:07,893
like, What do I have? in my
stash As can I make this  exact

536
00:35:07,962 --> 00:35:12,255
sweater But yeah, so anything
for my mom, I think is my actual

537
00:35:12,324 --> 00:35:16,547
favourite thing. And then I have
 a former grad student who's

538
00:35:16,616 --> 00:35:20,701
like a little brother to me,
who, whenever he helps me out,

539
00:35:20,771 --> 00:35:24,994
he always askes me for this very
specific hat, asked for in a

540
00:35:25,063 --> 00:35:29,079
different colour. Hmm. Um, and
apparently, like, everybody

541
00:35:29,148 --> 00:35:33,510
always tries to take this hat.
Everybody loves his hat. His dad

542
00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:37,595
was like, I mean, I've never
heard that said like, can she

543
00:35:37,665 --> 00:35:42,096
make me one of these? Like, no,
you don't know her. And she has,

544
00:35:42,165 --> 00:35:46,458
like, you have no relationship
like, this is my special thing.

545
00:35:46,527 --> 00:35:50,820
But it's this special moment. I
think any knit is special, you

546
00:35:50,889 --> 00:35:55,112
give it away, and then you see
it in use. Like, I've seen him

547
00:35:55,182 --> 00:35:59,336
post pictures, and it's winter
time he forever has on one of

548
00:35:59,405 --> 00:36:03,421
the hats. And for that, that
always makes me happy to hear

549
00:36:03,490 --> 00:36:07,298
that, like, you see a baby
wearing something made, or a

550
00:36:07,367 --> 00:36:11,799
blanket that you made like that,
to know that it's being used in

551
00:36:11,868 --> 00:36:13,530
love that makes me happy

552
00:36:13,870 --> 00:36:16,660
Mia Hobbs: yeah, that actually
happened to me. Last weekend, I

553
00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:21,640
met up with my best friend who
lives a few hours away. And she

554
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:26,650
was wearing the do you know, the
scout shawl. And so I had knit

555
00:36:26,650 --> 00:36:29,650
that when my dog was quite a
small puppy and had like, so

556
00:36:29,650 --> 00:36:33,280
it's intarsia and colour works
that have like six balls of yarn

557
00:36:33,940 --> 00:36:37,960
at once and I made it for my
best friend's 40th. And we met

558
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,110
up in a different town and she
was wearing it with this like

559
00:36:41,110 --> 00:36:44,200
new yellow coat that just
matched the which since she said

560
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,450
she hadn't bought especially
because it matched the scarf,

561
00:36:46,450 --> 00:36:49,150
but it looked great. And I
happened to be wearing a

562
00:36:49,150 --> 00:36:53,200
cardigan in the same yellow yarn
that I'd used in her shawl. We

563
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,440
were like, looked like we were
on a weird hen do or something

564
00:36:56,770 --> 00:36:59,590
but it was. But it was so
special to see her wearing that

565
00:36:59,590 --> 00:37:02,920
I'd made her for her 40th which
was in July. She's not a knitter

566
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,800
so, it was a slightly random
gift. You know, you never quite,

567
00:37:06,340 --> 00:37:09,820
I'm never quite sure if somebody
who's not a knitter is gonna

568
00:37:10,810 --> 00:37:12,940
appreciate you know, appreciate
it.

569
00:37:12,110 --> 00:37:15,858
DWJ: I know. Yeah, I don't knit
for everybody. And sometimes

570
00:37:15,926 --> 00:37:20,083
I've been like pressured and
i'm, like, just make it and then

571
00:37:17,070 --> 00:37:45,810
And I've probably got to be what
you feel like making at that

572
00:37:20,151 --> 00:37:24,445
I'm like, I didn't need to make
this person this because I will

573
00:37:24,513 --> 00:37:28,738
never ever see evidence of this
thing ever again. Um, well, my

574
00:37:28,806 --> 00:37:32,759
knitting circle is incredibly
small. And, and I do that so

575
00:37:32,827 --> 00:37:36,643
that I can make whatever I want
whenever I want. I don't

576
00:37:36,712 --> 00:37:41,210
necessarily want people to put
demands on what I choose to create.

577
00:37:45,810 --> 00:37:48,570
particular time? Like what
floats your boat just then.

578
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,340
Yeah, like sometimes I'm like, I
like I have a friend who I know

579
00:37:53,340 --> 00:37:56,160
really wants a sweater from me.
And I know what sweater I want

580
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,490
to make him. But I have no
interest in making this sweater

581
00:37:59,490 --> 00:38:02,850
right now. Yeah, like January
will hit and and i'll be like

582
00:38:02,910 --> 00:38:07,230
now's the time lets  make this
sweater? Yeah. But um, and

583
00:38:07,230 --> 00:38:10,530
that's I tell people you might
get a sweater from me in July.

584
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,060
You might get a sweater from me
in February. Like it just

585
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:18,240
depends on what the mood is and
how I feel at the time.

586
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,460
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, and it's
difficult to know how long these

587
00:38:20,460 --> 00:38:22,980
things take. Also, people are
saying how long does it take to

588
00:38:22,980 --> 00:38:24,870
knit a sweater? I don't know.

589
00:38:25,890 --> 00:38:30,150
DWJ: I'm like It depends. Like
especially now um, I was

590
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:35,010
supposed to knit. I'm usually a
fast knitter but I'm not this

591
00:38:35,010 --> 00:38:39,390
year. And I'm my best friend
comes with me to all yarn

592
00:38:39,390 --> 00:38:41,880
related events. And she was
coming to Rhinebeck and so I

593
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,710
knit her Rhinebeck sweater
before. And I didn't have it in

594
00:38:46,710 --> 00:38:50,790
me. I barely got through making
mine in time for Rhinebeck but

595
00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:55,320
my girlfriends in my little
knitting group. Were like we'll

596
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,340
knit it for her because they
love her too. And so I think for

597
00:38:59,340 --> 00:39:02,310
me, that has also been like, one
of the best things this year is

598
00:39:02,310 --> 00:39:06,840
that I have a really good small
circle of girlfriends who, when

599
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,100
I couldn't knit did stuff for
me. And when I haven't had the

600
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:15,120
energy or the enthusiasm, they
be like that, don't worry, we'll

601
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,800
handle it. Um, and so like they
knit it, but then I ended up her

602
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,530
sleeves need to be a little bit
longer. So I frogged back her

603
00:39:22,530 --> 00:39:26,010
cuffs and made it a little bit
longer for her so that there was

604
00:39:26,010 --> 00:39:31,170
still a little bit of me in
there. Yeah. But yeah, I just I

605
00:39:31,170 --> 00:39:34,680
you know, I tell people like you
get one when I feel like it

606
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:37,710
there have been some sweaters
where I've loved the process.

607
00:39:37,770 --> 00:39:40,560
And so I'll just spend a little
bit of time and and put it away.

608
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,600
And so, I've had a sweater that
took me like three months where

609
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,940
I'm like, Yeah, I'm probably
gonna sat down and done this a

610
00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:51,750
couple weeks, but I enjoyed it.
So I would savour it and be

611
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:54,570
like, I'll come back to this.
Like, I'll pick this back up

612
00:39:54,570 --> 00:39:54,990
later.

613
00:39:56,070 --> 00:39:59,070
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, so it's a lot
about the process for you than

614
00:39:59,070 --> 00:40:03,600
the end result Oh, And you've
mentioned the idea of knitting,

615
00:40:03,630 --> 00:40:07,080
making you feel calmer, and
you've mentioned the kind of joy

616
00:40:07,110 --> 00:40:10,650
and the colour, are there any
other ways you think knitting

617
00:40:10,650 --> 00:40:14,400
kind of helps you in terms of
your well being, or

618
00:40:15,350 --> 00:40:22,640
DWJ: I think I have met amazing
people. Um, and so like I, you

619
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,060
know, I'd said before and 2020,
when the pandemic started, if I

620
00:40:26,060 --> 00:40:31,310
didn't have my, the group of
five of us, I didn't have those

621
00:40:31,310 --> 00:40:34,760
four women in my life, I don't
know how I would have made it

622
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,520
through 2020. And I really don't
know how I would have made it

623
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:43,820
through this year after getting
sick and, and what connects us

624
00:40:43,820 --> 00:40:48,620
is yarn. And it, you know, we
incurred Look, we all bought

625
00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:53,240
yarn, advent calendars this
year. So that we could all open.

626
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:57,560
And so like, when I log off with
you, I'm sure my text messages

627
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,130
will be full of pictures of what
was in each person advent,

628
00:41:01,130 --> 00:41:02,270
because we all got different
ones,

629
00:41:02,270 --> 00:41:03,770
Mia Hobbs: you know, go get
different ones, okay.

630
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,980
DWJ: And so that we talked about
and ooh and ahh over what each

631
00:41:07,980 --> 00:41:13,590
person got, and, you know, we
encourage our own purchases and

632
00:41:13,980 --> 00:41:19,560
get excited and ooh and ahh over
what each other's making and do

633
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:24,210
knit alongs amongst ourselves.
So I think for me, knitting has

634
00:41:24,210 --> 00:41:27,060
also brought amazing
relationships into my life. And

635
00:41:27,810 --> 00:41:31,350
even at my old job, like, I have
a friend who I worked with, and

636
00:41:31,350 --> 00:41:36,090
we had the same birthday, but
years apart. And it turns out,

637
00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:38,880
she was in there too. And so
that was a way we kind of bonded

638
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,930
at work. Like she was a person
where I probably we she and I,

639
00:41:43,140 --> 00:41:45,360
we didn't really have anything
in common. And then when

640
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,970
someone's like, oh, you know,
this person knits and so does

641
00:41:47,970 --> 00:41:52,020
Dana. And then we started
talking and then created, had a

642
00:41:52,020 --> 00:41:55,530
friendship, like and would bring
yarn and pass stuff back and

643
00:41:55,530 --> 00:41:59,610
forth at work. So I think
knitting has also brought me

644
00:41:59,610 --> 00:42:03,330
some amazing people into my life
which i am thankful for.

645
00:42:06,420 --> 00:42:09,750
Mia Hobbs: That's amazing. Has
knitting ever been unhelpful? Do

646
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:10,260
you think?

647
00:42:13,020 --> 00:42:18,930
No, um, I mean, you get tired of
people being like, make me this.

648
00:42:19,950 --> 00:42:27,090
Yeah, they don't understand what
all goes into it. You know, when

649
00:42:27,870 --> 00:42:33,300
my dad was sick, my dad had
cancer. And I was at the

650
00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:37,590
hospital a lot. I knit a lot at
the hospital. And the nurses

651
00:42:37,590 --> 00:42:40,260
would come and talk to me about
stuff or bring their projects

652
00:42:40,290 --> 00:42:45,660
and show me things that they
were working on. Now I think it

653
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:51,270
I think it is only brought good
things into my life, and good

654
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:52,710
things and memories and things.

655
00:42:54,300 --> 00:42:56,310
And I was interested you said
when you're talking about your

656
00:42:56,310 --> 00:43:00,360
mum wearing a sweater, that when
she went out for the first time

657
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,190
after your dad had died, and it
was like her wearing, I don't

658
00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:08,730
know, superpower or like an
added confidence when she wore

659
00:43:08,730 --> 00:43:11,280
that sweater. I don't know
whether you feel that

660
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,790
relationship with your sweaters
that you or other garments that

661
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:16,410
you make when you wear them.

662
00:43:17,020 --> 00:43:20,230
DWJ: What I remember, like the
first time I did this sweater,

663
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:23,530
and it was it was done in like a
Hemp yarn so I could wear it in

664
00:43:23,530 --> 00:43:26,800
the summer because I did it in
like May. Yeah, the very first

665
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,110
time I was like, please don't
let this whole for some reason.

666
00:43:29,110 --> 00:43:31,360
I was like, please don't let
this whole thing like unravel.

667
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,290
And just be naked at work.

668
00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:36,700
Mia Hobbs: Did it stay together?

669
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,200
DWJ: It stayed together?I don't
know why I thought but like, in

670
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,130
my head. I was like, this whole
thing might just collapse. I

671
00:43:44,130 --> 00:43:48,690
don't know what's gonna happen.
Um, but I do feel better. When I

672
00:43:48,690 --> 00:43:51,240
wear my own stuff. And then
people like, Oh, what did you

673
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:54,780
make? And  I'm like, yeah, yes,
I did. Um,

674
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,660
Mia Hobbs: I always say I feel
20% happier when I'm wearing

675
00:43:57,660 --> 00:44:01,230
something I made. And I used to
also I don't know, i This

676
00:44:01,230 --> 00:44:03,570
probably has happened to you as
well. But once you're an

677
00:44:03,570 --> 00:44:06,750
established, you know, have a
reputation as a knitter, you

678
00:44:06,750 --> 00:44:10,080
know, in your place of work or
whatever. Then whatever you

679
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,540
wear, people say, oh, did you
knit that? And then it's so

680
00:44:12,540 --> 00:44:16,080
annoying. If you wear something
that you bought in a shop and

681
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,660
you're like, No, I totally could
have made this it would be so

682
00:44:18,660 --> 00:44:20,100
easy. But I didn't

683
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,290
DWJ: I haven't bought a sweater.
I bought Actually no, I bought a

684
00:44:24,290 --> 00:44:29,060
sweater for the first time in
the store the other day. And I

685
00:44:29,060 --> 00:44:31,940
told my husband the only reason
I bought it because it's in some

686
00:44:31,940 --> 00:44:35,240
neutral colours that I would
not. I wouldn't find joy in

687
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:37,670
knitting this for myself. So I'm
just going to buy this because I

688
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:40,940
know I would be like, No, I'm
not knitting this and I would

689
00:44:40,940 --> 00:44:44,780
change it but I needed like a
neutral to go with something

690
00:44:44,780 --> 00:44:48,860
else. But I my students get the
most excited about it. And I had

691
00:44:48,860 --> 00:44:53,180
a student every day would come
in. I will walk in and he's like

692
00:44:53,180 --> 00:44:57,920
professor. Did you make it and I
say Nate? I tell you every week

693
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:04,760
Yep. Yes, I made that like he
was. So it is especially the

694
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:11,150
young man he was so like, amazed
that I could make clothes.

695
00:45:12,110 --> 00:45:15,590
Because they see me knitting.
And so my students probably

696
00:45:15,590 --> 00:45:19,940
asked me the most like, thing
and you'll see the look on their

697
00:45:19,940 --> 00:45:22,040
face might come in and like
what's going on with them? Like,

698
00:45:23,210 --> 00:45:27,080
did you make that one I'm  Like,
yeah, I made this one. Yeah. all

699
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,880
my sweaters I make all of them.

700
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,780
Mia Hobbs: I have one from when
the dog was in the terrible like

701
00:45:32,780 --> 00:45:37,100
shark teeth phase or if the kids
are sick and you don't want them

702
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:41,240
to vomit on a handknit jumper
that I keep in the back of the

703
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:48,020
wardrobe, but the others are all
handmade now. Yeah, I was going

704
00:45:48,020 --> 00:45:51,470
to ask about knitting high end
and knitting low. If you've got

705
00:45:51,470 --> 00:45:52,280
any in mind.

706
00:45:55,130 --> 00:45:59,780
DWJ: Knitting High. Probably the
first time I figured out how to

707
00:45:59,780 --> 00:46:01,940
adapt a sweater for Jelly Bean's
size.

708
00:46:02,030 --> 00:46:04,760
Mia Hobbs: Oh, yeah. And can you
remember what that was.

709
00:46:04,990 --> 00:46:09,760
DWJ: Uh huh. It was an Angelina
pullover. Um, and I knit it for

710
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:16,870
myself first. And she was an had
been a new rescue. And so we

711
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:20,500
hadn't had her for long. But the
whole time I've been knitting

712
00:46:20,500 --> 00:46:25,180
mine, she had been using the
ball of yarn as a pillow. And

713
00:46:26,110 --> 00:46:29,470
she's so little, because she's
just five pounds. And sometimes

714
00:46:29,470 --> 00:46:32,020
you buy some of the store bought
stuff. It's a little too big.

715
00:46:33,340 --> 00:46:37,840
And I was like, You know what? I
bought her stuff. And I paid too

716
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,920
much money for things. I need
you to sit down. I've already

717
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,370
knit this. So I just need to do
the math to shrink it down. And

718
00:46:45,370 --> 00:46:49,720
I did it. And it was the most
adorable, ridiculous thing I

719
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:50,320
ever knit.

720
00:46:50,410 --> 00:46:51,790
Mia Hobbs: and she loves wearing
them.

721
00:46:52,110 --> 00:46:54,930
She loves I mean, she wears
clothes every day. Because yeah,

722
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:59,520
they're cold. Yeah. And it just
was one of those things where

723
00:46:59,550 --> 00:47:03,630
you know, cuz, like, why would
you do that? Or that? Cuz it

724
00:47:03,630 --> 00:47:11,310
made me happy. Like, that's
literally the reason. um so that

725
00:47:11,310 --> 00:47:15,780
is a really good high, can you
think of a low? Oh, I can tell

726
00:47:15,780 --> 00:47:19,320
you low, I really there was just
beautiful cardigan that I really

727
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,500
wanted to make. And I got
halfway through it. But it was

728
00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:26,580
fishermen's rib and it was
killing my hands. Okay, and it

729
00:47:26,580 --> 00:47:28,800
took me a year and a half to
Frog it.

730
00:47:28,860 --> 00:47:29,610
Oh!

731
00:47:30,140 --> 00:47:35,270
I finally like I have to let you
go. Because I'm never gonna

732
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:38,060
finish you. Because every time I
pick you up, like I feel the

733
00:47:38,060 --> 00:47:42,230
ache in my hand. And it wasn't
even small yarn. It was just the

734
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,050
stitch and the positioning of
the hand. Like it just was too

735
00:47:45,050 --> 00:47:49,100
much. Um, and someone else saw
it was like You're like halfway

736
00:47:49,100 --> 00:47:53,000
through. And I was like, Yeah,
but I'm never there. I can't, I

737
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,950
can't do that was sad. But in
frogging it. I ended up using

738
00:47:57,950 --> 00:48:01,010
the yarn and making something
with an amazing rainbow. Like

739
00:48:01,100 --> 00:48:05,630
something else. I'm not too sad
anymore. Like, yeah, it had a

740
00:48:05,630 --> 00:48:09,800
better life. So I think probably
the low would be in realising

741
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,950
like what those limitations are.
And I think this year, I've not

742
00:48:12,950 --> 00:48:20,480
knit as much as I would love to.
Yeah. Okay. I've still made some

743
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,840
really great things that I'm
excited about. Just in my head

744
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:28,310
has all these things that I want
to make sure. And I always end

745
00:48:28,310 --> 00:48:31,340
need to be an octopus with
multiple arms. Yeah,  and knit

746
00:48:31,370 --> 00:48:32,810
way more than I do.

747
00:48:33,530 --> 00:48:36,890
Yeah. Yeah. So you're full of
ideas. And is that part of the

748
00:48:36,890 --> 00:48:39,320
joy of the knitting? Like the
planning the next project and

749
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,450
what colours or yarn you're
going to use? And?

750
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,860
DWJ: 100% 100% Yeah, yeah, I
love like, especially if I'm

751
00:48:45,860 --> 00:48:49,190
knitting for someone else. I
love that moment. When I know

752
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:53,150
the person I figure out the yarn
and the pattern, it all clicks,

753
00:48:53,180 --> 00:48:58,100
and it's so perfect. And you're
like, like, my husband wanted

754
00:48:58,100 --> 00:49:02,690
some sweater and I realised I
knit this version of this

755
00:49:02,690 --> 00:49:05,510
sweater for my sister the year
before. And I realised I had the

756
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:10,190
perfect combination of yarn to
make it for him a colourwork

757
00:49:10,190 --> 00:49:14,270
sweater. And he never pays
attention. So like I've been

758
00:49:14,270 --> 00:49:16,970
knitting it. And then finally I
was like, Okay, I need to try

759
00:49:16,970 --> 00:49:19,700
this on. He's like, why? And I
was like, I've been knitting a

760
00:49:19,700 --> 00:49:25,190
sweater. Right? Like that's for
me. I'm I guess, I mean,

761
00:49:27,140 --> 00:49:30,260
Mia Hobbs: I saw someone on
Instagram. do you know. I think

762
00:49:30,290 --> 00:49:34,220
drunk knitter I think is their
Instagram and she was had a, she

763
00:49:34,220 --> 00:49:37,400
was knitting next to her
husband. And then she got him to

764
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,960
take a picture of her knitting
something for him. And I was

765
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,120
thinking, I so could do that.

766
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:49,670
DWJ: My husband, we went, we
went to New Orleans on a trip

767
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:52,880
one year, and we're in a store
and he held up a scarf and he

768
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,650
was like, if you could make me
something like this, I would

769
00:49:54,650 --> 00:49:59,480
love it. So while we're there, I
took him into the yarn shop like

770
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:03,380
we'll pick the Colour yarn you
want. So he knew the yarn. And

771
00:50:03,380 --> 00:50:06,440
we used to commute together in
the car, and I knit that scarf

772
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,490
for him in the car in front of
him for Christmas. And he never

773
00:50:10,490 --> 00:50:16,130
noticed. He never noticed I
pulled that scarf out every

774
00:50:16,130 --> 00:50:19,280
morning and every evening in our
commute, and I made it in the

775
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,240
car in front of that man. And he
never noticed. So I realised if

776
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:27,890
I don't talk about what it is
that I'm making. Yeah, he pays

777
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:28,760
absolutely

778
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:29,720
Mia Hobbs: screened it out.

779
00:50:30,980 --> 00:50:33,080
DWJ: Because I'm always
knitting. Yeah, why would he

780
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,140
think it's for him? Yeah. So it
wasn't until I said them the

781
00:50:36,140 --> 00:50:39,290
other day, like, you know, this
what it is for you? He's like,

782
00:50:40,190 --> 00:50:41,000
what?

783
00:50:42,020 --> 00:50:43,550
Mia Hobbs: I was wondering
whether you could get him a

784
00:50:43,550 --> 00:50:46,340
surprise. Clearly you can. Yeah,
yeah.

785
00:50:47,130 --> 00:50:52,830
DWJ: All the time. And then I'm
like, he's, like, yes, yes. paid

786
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,150
zero attention.

787
00:50:55,020 --> 00:50:56,460
Mia Hobbs: But he's delighted
for the outcome.

788
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,260
Oh, no, he's not. I know. It's
like, there's certain certain

789
00:51:00,260 --> 00:51:02,480
things that make like there are
hats. I haven't even gotten to

790
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,000
block because as soon as I show
him, like, I just finished your

791
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,080
hat. And the next day, I'm like,
where did it go? And then he

792
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:13,070
comes home, and it's on his
head. The process not over it

793
00:51:13,070 --> 00:51:16,490
needs to be blocked. Um, so
there's something that he

794
00:51:16,490 --> 00:51:20,870
absolutely like. And he is very,
He's usually very specific. He

795
00:51:21,410 --> 00:51:25,460
is very specific in his request,
and will like, show you a

796
00:51:25,460 --> 00:51:29,150
picture or give you an example
and then tell you what colour

797
00:51:29,210 --> 00:51:33,950
okay. And he usually only asked
for one thing a year, and I

798
00:51:33,950 --> 00:51:37,670
can't so I always make it for
him. So I made him a sweater

799
00:51:37,670 --> 00:51:42,380
this year because I wanted to.
But he has asked for a scarf and

800
00:51:42,380 --> 00:51:47,240
a specific yarn, which I got for
him. So I'll be working on that

801
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:53,570
mindlessly, for him garter
stitch scarf, it's really more

802
00:51:53,570 --> 00:51:57,530
about the yarn. He thought. He
saw a speckled yarn in a sweater

803
00:51:57,530 --> 00:52:02,270
that I made. He's like, I want
yarn like that. But it like

804
00:52:02,270 --> 00:52:05,990
blue, red and white. And so
like, oh, he just wants

805
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:06,800
speckles. Okay.

806
00:52:08,570 --> 00:52:10,010
He didn't know he wanted
speckles,

807
00:52:10,310 --> 00:52:14,510
DWJ: he didn't know. He kept
looking at my sweater. I like I

808
00:52:14,510 --> 00:52:19,310
like, like this effect. And so
i'm like, you like the yarn?

809
00:52:19,340 --> 00:52:22,340
Okay. That's what you're telling
me is you'd like the speckled

810
00:52:22,340 --> 00:52:23,930
yarn. Got it? I got it.

811
00:52:24,140 --> 00:52:27,590
Mia Hobbs: So you just have to
translate that. Yeah. For him.

812
00:52:27,590 --> 00:52:27,650
It

813
00:52:27,650 --> 00:52:30,530
DWJ: He usually gives me the
visuals are enough thing. Yeah.

814
00:52:30,830 --> 00:52:33,860
Where I can figure out and I'll
ask questions like, Is it the

815
00:52:33,860 --> 00:52:38,930
texture? Or is it the colour or
how it's arranged? And he'll be

816
00:52:38,930 --> 00:52:42,470
like, no, no, it's this and I'm
like, oh, that I can do.

817
00:52:42,570 --> 00:52:47,730
Mia Hobbs: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And
I always end the podcast with

818
00:52:47,730 --> 00:52:50,700
asking, what's the greatest gift
that knitting has given you for

819
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:51,780
the rest of your life?

820
00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:58,710
DWJ: Creative expression,
probably. I've always been a

821
00:52:58,710 --> 00:53:04,050
really creative, artistic
person. And I think it has

822
00:53:04,050 --> 00:53:09,120
helped me find ways to express
myself even like, embroidering

823
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,770
on my knits now. Hmm. So like,
as I go through some quotes and

824
00:53:13,770 --> 00:53:17,220
things I pull in grad school,
and I was like, You know what, I

825
00:53:17,220 --> 00:53:20,070
just need to start embroidering
some of these things onto like

826
00:53:20,070 --> 00:53:24,570
simple sweaters because these
are like things that I live by

827
00:53:24,570 --> 00:53:27,900
are things that are kind of what
guide me in my research and my

828
00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:33,660
academic work or like, things
that I love. And so it has given

829
00:53:33,660 --> 00:53:36,720
me another way to kind of have a
creative outlet and express

830
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:41,280
myself, which I'm very thankful
for. And isn't necessarily

831
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,840
something that we get all the
time or, you know, I was raised,

832
00:53:46,140 --> 00:53:50,670
where my parents really
encouraged my creativity and for

833
00:53:50,670 --> 00:53:55,350
me to express myself in those
kinds of ways. So to find a way

834
00:53:55,350 --> 00:54:01,170
as an adult to have an outlet, I
think so often we get caught up

835
00:54:01,170 --> 00:54:04,740
in work. Yeah, allow that to
take over our lives and my dad

836
00:54:04,740 --> 00:54:07,980
was always like, I do not live
to work I work so that I can

837
00:54:07,980 --> 00:54:11,220
live the life that I want to
live and so I always tried to

838
00:54:11,220 --> 00:54:16,200
find a balance and to find
moments of joy for myself and

839
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,770
things that like that come
outside of work when I leave my

840
00:54:19,830 --> 00:54:22,830
my when I used to leave with
nine to five job, I had other

841
00:54:22,830 --> 00:54:25,560
things I wanted to do and enjoy
and I told my students like it's

842
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,820
a little different for me as a
professor, but like, I told him,

843
00:54:29,820 --> 00:54:33,300
you know, my, my winter break is
about Yes, I have some research

844
00:54:33,300 --> 00:54:36,270
work I had to do, but also I'm
gonna knit and I'm gonna play

845
00:54:36,270 --> 00:54:40,260
video games. And I'm gonna give
myself that mental break that I

846
00:54:40,260 --> 00:54:47,730
need. Because I also think it
rejuvenates me and it makes me a

847
00:54:47,730 --> 00:54:52,140
better educator, a better person
because I have creativity and

848
00:54:52,140 --> 00:54:55,590
things that are exciting outside
of just doing every day.

849
00:54:56,350 --> 00:54:59,680
Mia Hobbs: That's great. I often
like I often see young people

850
00:54:59,710 --> 00:55:03,430
for therapy Who are in exam
years and I find, they often end

851
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:06,220
up giving up their hobbies for
those exam years, because

852
00:55:06,220 --> 00:55:08,380
they're trying to focus on
passing exams. And I'm like, No,

853
00:55:08,380 --> 00:55:10,720
this is the time you need those
things even more.

854
00:55:12,190 --> 00:55:16,210
DWJ: This is when you need it.
And I for me, you know, I just

855
00:55:16,210 --> 00:55:23,920
sat for comps, so two days, for
12 hours total of writing. And I

856
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,610
just my in between hours and my
in between days, I was knitting

857
00:55:27,730 --> 00:55:31,540
as a way to say, I have all this
stuff that I've stored in my

858
00:55:31,540 --> 00:55:36,700
brain. So I need to just give
myself a moment to not just

859
00:55:36,700 --> 00:55:39,160
focus on what it is that I've
been writing and working on

860
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,820
thinking about theories and
methodology and, like, let's

861
00:55:42,820 --> 00:55:44,290
work on this hat. Because

862
00:55:45,780 --> 00:55:48,990
Mia Hobbs: I find sometimes that
the ideas percolate a bit when

863
00:55:48,990 --> 00:55:53,880
I'm knitting, like, I'm not
trying to access thinking about

864
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,240
work or having ideas about
things, but somehow they arrive.

865
00:55:57,540 --> 00:55:58,590
When I'm knitting.

866
00:55:58,980 --> 00:56:02,400
DWJ: Sometimes I have that
verse. And so I scribble notes

867
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:08,730
on my patterns. Okay. Um, and
then also for me, because a lot

868
00:56:08,730 --> 00:56:14,940
of my research goes into the
knitting community. Sometimes it

869
00:56:14,940 --> 00:56:17,940
makes me think about or see
things in different ways. So I

870
00:56:17,940 --> 00:56:22,140
have time to kind of process
that information. Yeah. No, I

871
00:56:22,140 --> 00:56:25,980
always make my my best friend
has a really stressful job. And

872
00:56:25,980 --> 00:56:30,120
I'm like, You need to pick up
crocheting or weaving. Because

873
00:56:30,420 --> 00:56:34,080
they are stressing you out. And
I want you to find a way to

874
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:38,550
disconnect and reconnect with
yourself so that they don't pull

875
00:56:38,550 --> 00:56:41,490
all of the creativity out of you
just for this job that you get

876
00:56:41,490 --> 00:56:42,780
to save a little bit for
yourself.

877
00:56:45,090 --> 00:56:47,766
Mia Hobbs: Dana, thank you so
much for agreeing to be on the

878
00:56:47,821 --> 00:56:50,661
podcast. It's been an absolute
pleasure hearing your

879
00:56:50,716 --> 00:56:52,410
experiences and all your ideas.

880
00:56:52,410 --> 00:56:59,790
DWJ: Thank you for having me.

881
00:56:59,790 --> 00:57:02,286
Mia Hobbs: Thank you so much for
listening to series, one of the

882
00:57:02,333 --> 00:57:04,782
why I knit podcast. I've really
enjoyed having these

883
00:57:04,829 --> 00:57:07,749
conversations and sharing them
with you. If you've enjoyed the

884
00:57:07,796 --> 00:57:10,669
podcast, please subscribe so
that you're notified when series

885
00:57:10,716 --> 00:57:12,930
two begins at the beginning of
March. Thank you