Mia Hobbs: Hello, and welcome to the why I knit podcast. My name
is Dr. Mia Hobbs, and I'm a clinical psychologist who's
passionate about knitting and its benefits for our mental
health. Each week on the podcast, I interview a different
knitter about why they knit and how it benefits their well
being. This is the last episode of Series one, and I'm very
lucky to be joined by Dana Williams Johnson or DW J, who is
a Professor of Marketing and a passionate knitter of sweaters
for humans and very small dogs. You can find out more about Dana
by reading her blog at www dot yards of happiness.com. She's
also on Instagram at call me DW J. You can find a link to Dana's
blog, and any of the yarns and patterns we discussed in the
show notes.
Hi, Dana, welcome to the podcast.
DWJ: Hello, hello.
Mia Hobbs: So I always start with asking about where your
story with knitting began.
DWJ: Um, so I learned it's only been about 11 years I think. I,
I've always been crafty. And but never I've never done anything
really with yarn before I can sew, a big papercraft person, I
paint place for a long time. And, but I didn't know anybody
who knit that or crochet. In fact, actually, I didn't know
someone crochet but she never crochet in front of me. And so I
just never my best friend I find out later on crochet. Like,
what, um, so I started this new job. And I kind of needed I was
at that phase in my life where I hadn't figured out 100% still
what I really wanted to do, I think I was, I'm a late bloomer,
in terms of career, I'm good at lots of things. But there was
nothing that like my husband is an engineer has always known and
wanted to be an engineer and absolutely loves his job, and I
never had that in my life. Until I started teaching. And so I was
like, Well, I'm doing this job. And it's pay is great. hours are
easy, like, I'm learning some new stuff, but I need something
really creative. So I got one of those Groupon deals were like,
discounted to get. And it was for Knitting Lessons in a
knitting shop in DC that doesn't exist anymore. And I said to my
mom, like, I think I'm gonna take Knitting Lessons. And I
always tell the story, because she said to me, you don't need
another craft. You don't need to learn nothing. You don't need to
spend money, on anything. I was like rude. And then, like a week
after I said that, she was like, Can You knit me this hat? You
literally just said to me, like, I assume you ignore me like
always. Okay. So I signed up for lessons.
And it took a little bit for me to kind of get it. But once I
got it, I was hooked. And that was kind of it for me. And I had
a teacher who really like, like, I was an intro knitting class,
but it learned very quickly how to do cables and knitting in the
round. Like, she was kind of really aggressive.
But I think it kind of helped give me a little bit of
confidence, because you just kind of go into like, well, I
guess I can do this, like, I can do anything. Um, but I also took
it upon myself to like, usually once a year, I take class
because of that. So every year for the last year, usually at my
local yarn shop, I sign up for some type of class, to learn
some new skills, some new thing, or if I want, like when I wanted
to get into sweater knitting, I took a intro sweater knitting
class, I can ask all the questions.
And so for because I'm realised I'm nerdy in that way. And then
I love education. I mean, um, and so if that's what knitting
is, for me, it's there's a, like, before you started
recording we were talking about, there's always something that
you can learn. So I don't feel bad when I'm like, Oh, I haven't
learned that yet. Because I'm like, I'll get there. Like I've
been saying forever. I really want to do something with
intarsia it hasn't happened yet, will it? Yeah.
I think it would just be I have to find the right project that
has excited me to say
Mia Hobbs: it's such a great idea to do a class of something
new once a year. So is it always knitting related? Or could it be
something completely random that you've never done before? Like,
ceramics or
DWJ: For me it's always been knitting, okay. Like when I took
a class a year, but I am also one of those people who
encourages people to take classes. So like
be away from me for four to six hours. So he was like, learn to
play golf with me. So I signed up into Clemson. So I play golf.
Um, so anytime there's something we're like, Hmm, I love Creole
food. I love to cook. So when we travelled to New Orleans, I take
cooking lessons.
It's the thing of, I don't know how to do it. But there's
usually somebody out there who can teach me Yeah.
Mia Hobbs: So you love to learn.
DWJ: I love to learn. So like, lets take advantage of that.
Like if somebody is willing, someone, I'm not the best Sewer.
And I have a follower who is in the area, an older woman who I
see all the time and help her out with stuff. And she's an
amazing Sewer. And I happen to say one day on Instagram, like,
I would love to make a quilted coat. Like, I wish my skills are
up to par. And she was like, I have a long arm quilting machine
at my house. So it's just like, I'm 100% can make that with you.
She's like, I can help you. So I'm all about like, Oh, if
you're willing to teach me. I'm all for it.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. Oh, that's great. And was there something
special about knitting that this? I mean, I don't know if it
is your main craft now. But was there something particular that
you think that hooked you in to it?
DWJ: I think I am a person who I enjoy being alone. And I can do
it my by myself. And I don't, you can literally just be me in
a ball yarn and needles, and I can take it anywhere.
And so for me, I think that was the thing that hasn't made it my
main craft that I always have some knitting with me. Yeah. And
I can whip out a hat or cowl. Or maybe I'm working on a sweater
or you know, like, so it's constantly with me, my students
know when I'm proctoring exams, I walk around the room while I'm
knitting. And it's, it's soothing for me, it calms
nerves, it helps.
I think I've always had anxiety since I was a kid. So I think
for me, it can also be um and a good way to kind of relieve some
of my anxiety.
I talked once about how when my dad died I was knitting
something, when you know, people come to your house and like pay
their respects and all that. And instead of asking the obvious
questions about how are you feeling and loss when you know
you feel horrible. So they asked me about what I was knitting.
And it made it a little bit easier to have conversations and
to be present with people instead of focusing on that
thing that was kind of weighing you down.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. And does it matter what you knit? Like, is
all knitting equal? Or does it make a difference? What it is?
DWJ: I don't think it matters. I mean, I have an affinity for
sweaters.
Like thats My you know, I mean, I tell you, every knitter has a
thing. I don't get people who knit socks like that. Just, I
have absolutely zero.
But what is
Mia Hobbs: it about socks? Is it the process or the end result?
DWJ: I love and here's the thing I love a knit sock? Yeah. And I
have friends who knit me thought and I'm giving it five gifts. I
have absolutely zero desire to knit a sock for myself. I just
don't. And as much as I knit and make. I think it's the tiny
needles and the tiny yarn.
It's not appealing. I would buy a sock machine before I would
knit.
Mia Hobbs: Okay, that's interesting. So is a bit about
the process?
DWJ: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would totally like I've looked at
whenever I see somebody was really gorgeous sock knitting
machines I wanna do that. She's like well, my not gonna knit a
sock. Okay. fortunately, I have a really good girlfriend who has
given me like a couple pairs of socks. Yeah, like, as long as I
have good friends. It's fine.
Mia Hobbs: dYeah, you don't need to knit them yourself. Yeah, so
sweaters are your main love. Would you say
DWJ: sweaters are my main love? Yeah. And I associate you with
some with some bright coloured like combinations of colours
like
it. I think it's that colour is such a mood booster and so like
this is the audio podcast but you can see me in . You can See
my house? And there's a lot of artwork, um, and growing up, my
parents always encouraged that in me, because I always would
draw and paint. And, you know, I remember being a kid and getting
to pick the paint colours and the carpet colours for the wall.
My mom was like, I hate it. And my dad was like, but it's her
room
Mia Hobbs: so they encourages that form of self expression for
you.
DWJ: Yeah. He was always like, but it's her room. It's her one
little space. And it really makes her happy. So let us just
let her have that. Um, and I know, my mom. Never. It was
always just a minor I parent and it's funny because I grew up in
a house. I think my parents have really great taste, but it's
very classic and very, like neutral than me. I'm like, I
want to paint this wall teal. Yeah. And my ceilings are mint
and it's, um, fortunately, my husband kind of just goes with
it like, sure. Dana loves colour. Um, but I think wearing
all black, like, when I wear all black to work people have asked,
Are you okay, whats wrong.
Because it is so rare. I went years not owning a pair of black
pants,
I can't get through this. Um, and I just think it makes you
your wardrobe way happier. I am sometimes envious of like people
who have like, a colour palette and are like, I wear like these
five colours, because my wardrobe is essentially a
rainbow. I'm always like, I'll figure out some combos today.
But I just think it makes me way happier to knit things.
Especially rainbows. Like I love a good rainbow. So to knit
things that have so much kind of joy and levity to them.
Mia Hobbs: So it sounds like that affects your mood while
you're making the garment. But also when you then get to wear
it.
DWJ: Yeah yarn is beautiful, I think Yeah. Especially indie
dyed skeins are like little works of art. And I got recently
I bought myself a sweater quantity for Christmas of the La
Bien Aimee confetti yarn that
Mia Hobbs: yeah.
DWJ: Whoa, a little bit. Yeah. And I, I asked people for like
suggestions for patterns and stuff online. I know when I
think about it in the day, like, I just want something that's
gonna showcase how beautiful that yarn is. And and that you
can see all the little flecks and I don't want that to get
lost.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. Did you decide on a pattern?
DWJ: I'm not 100% I'm also like, I have so much yarn and so many
patterns and projects that I'm considering or thinking about
and my hand is a little academic life in all my typing is not
helping
Mia Hobbs: Oh, okay.
DWJ: So I'm trying to get my hand a little bit of rest, as
I'm like halfway through a sweater from my husband. I just
want to make this the body on this sweater but my hand like no
mam, we're not doing it
Mia Hobbs: That must be quite difficult, then if you can't
knit as much as you'd like to.
DWJ: I think there's well this year I have knit the least in
that and learn and a lot of it was I've been I've been ill. And
then because I'd had illness. And I had I had multiple
pulmonary embolisms, um, and because of that, I, I have
insane fatigue sometimes. And so I literally will get through the
day. And it's like, I'm just glad that I made it home and I'm
still standing. And then I tell my husband like I'm just a
potato on the couch like I can't do anything because I haven't
knit as much. I had a bit of a brief moment in November where I
felt super like knitting energised. And then once
Thanksgiving hit. And I had multiple papers. And then I just
finished comps so much typing and I know every year all the
typing affects my joints and all that so I have to be mindful of
that because I tell people like it isn't necessarily about being
an academic writing. I want to be able to knit.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, yeah, does it. I mean, I feel like I would find
it difficult to not be able to do the, the thing that like you
said, kind of gives me joy and makes me feel calmer. If I'm
stressed Maybe you're more used to managing that.
DWJ: Um, I'll say that. So this year has changed my perspective
on a lot of things. I mean, I'm fairly young, I'm 43. And you
don't expect to have a major life event at 43.
Mia Hobbs: mmmm
DWJ: And, I mean, I was essentially told, what I came in
with is what most people die from. When you find out we hear
people die from pulmonary embolism, and disability because
of the level of embolisms, that I had had a massive one,
restricting blood flow right out of my heart, so my body wasn't
getting enough oxygen. And then my lungs were riddled with clots
like, riddled. So for me to have made it as far as I had before
being hospitalised was kind of miraculous. And so I'd say about
two weeks before I went to hospital,
I'd stopped knitting. And I also stopped talking as much which is
hard to do when you're a professor but I talked only when
I had to, and found ways to really engage students in my
classroom to do the talking so that I wouldn't have to. And so
I kind of switched over a little bit and had started working in
polymer clay.
And which is a medium that I worked on before. But I had seen
some fun things on Instagram, I wanted to make like jewellery
and things like that. So I kind of switched over, because I
realised, now I did not have enough oxygen in my body. So I
did not have the brainpower to read a knitting pattern.
Which I couldn't, I didn't know that at the time. Um, and
Polymer Clay don't follow patterns, or you don't, I could
just sit down at the table and make whatever. And so when you
realise after going through all that, like when I was in
hospital, I legit was just trying to survive, and, and
you're just kind of there. And, you know, people are like, Oh,
I'm terrified of needles, and I hate all that. You, when you
have someone slice into your neck artery while you're awake,
anything is possible.
And you stop being afraid of certain things. And so I had to
I had to come to the realisation when I came out of hospital, how
sick I was, and how long the recovery I had had. So they give
you about a year before you are expected to feel normal. And I
spent three months of the summer, essentially waiting for
my heart to go back to normal, which meant a lot of rest. A lot
of naps. And so my husband I think was the person who noted
like, a couple weeks out of the hospital, I finally picked
Polymer clear. And so I saw him like grinning, and I'm like what
he goes, you're just being creative. And I'm happy about
that. Like, I haven't seen this in weeks. he's like, so this is
positive. And I would look at my knitting and I would want to do
it.
Your blood oxygen levels aren't still normal. So clearly, you're
not. And like if people were like, how are you in grad school
and teaching? And I was like, Well, things, I stopped doing
certain things because I couldn't, I wasn't functioning.
So I think this year, I realised like, I have to have patience
with myself. Yeah, i'm a fairly patient person. But I'm also
very efficient and like I do things for myself. So learning
to be more patient with myself has been something that I've
dealt with this year. And now I'm getting frustrated when I
can't do the things I want to do, because there's so many
things that I can do now that I couldn't do six months ago.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. So you're really focusing on the process
of recovery and trying to give yourself time for that.
DWJ: And sometimes you have to remind yourself of that, like,
Yeah, we had to travel and do things and I was exhausted. But
I was like, but you know what, two months ago, I would not have
been able to walk up that hill.
Mia Hobbs: Hmm.
DWJ: And so let's be happy that I walked up that hill today.
And, and me and my husband is great at reminding me of those
little things and being like, Oh, you've done so much better
like, because I think he knows me so intimately and has seen me
at the absolute lowest in the hospital. So he knows like, this
is progress. So eventually, like I was hospitalised early May. I
think I started knitting again. About six weeks out so mid June
into July. So that was, that was a while.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah.
DWJ: I was like, okay, yeah, do it. And then I will go. Let me
read the instructions. Let me just read it through. And now
still doesn't make sense yet. So me give myself time. So it's
about it's been about patience for me.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. And I guess one of the things that when we talk
about therapeutic knitting one of the I think the reasons we
think knitting is helpful is because you can break it down
into quite small steps. And it kind of makes it more
accessible, I think, in some ways. So for example, if
someone's feeling really low, or like you, when you were
struggling to get back in, that you could do a teeny tiny
amount, I suppose. Unlike other, it might be hard to start, I
don't know much about painting, but to start painting and only
paint a tiny piece of a canvas or something. Whereas knitting,
like if you're doing a couple of stitches, or like winding a ball
of yarn, you are still making progress towards the end thing,
even if it's in a very small increment of what you can manage
in a given day, I suppose.
DWJ: Yeah, I mean, even for me, when I wasn't on pre embolisms.
Even if I could just do a row at night, I will be like, I feel
accomplished. Like I got at least I got in a couple stitches
tonight. Before I went to bed, like it was a long day, I just
want to let something go. Let me just get a couple rows in and
then I'll feel a little bit better. Yeah. So I do think that
is part of the beauty of it is that you kind of constantly
working on this thing. And to me, I think it's all still like,
it's all a little bit of being an artist and a work of art. I
definitely think of knitting is an art form. And
Mia Hobbs: I was gonna ask you about that as somebody who has
an art kind of background about whether knitting is an art form
for you, because I never quite know for myself?
DWJ: No, I think it is I think we all you and I can pick the
exact same pattern.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah.
DWJ: And interpret in so many different ways. From the yarn
choices to maybe you make your sweater with long sleeves, and
I'm going to go short, maybe you decided you want to in some
waist shaping, or some bust darts. Or I'm like now I want to
make it oversized, or you're like I want this to be really
fitted. I think
it is such an individual thing. And we each get to put our own
spin on it. Like I love I love because people always like oh,
do you should design patterns? No, I love other people writing
patterns and their designs and the vision in the ideas that
they have. And then how I get to interpret that from
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. And without doing the maths.
DWJ: Without doing all that I don't want to do grading one of
my girlfriends to do that. And I'm like no, and I'm and we made
her make us design a pattern for us for Rhinebeck with you. Like
make us a sweater. Thank you. And she did all the work.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, the closest I've ever got was actually this
sweater that I'm wearing now, which is a like, you know, Tin
Can knits Strange Brew.
DWJ: Oh, yeah,
Mia Hobbs: but I just added these kind of like snowflakes to
make it a bit more, you know,
DWJ: I like it though
Mia Hobbs: Christmassy, thank you. But there was quite a lot
of maths involved. And that was a sense of achievement. I got a
bit different than the way I normally get a sense of
achievement from knitting. But that was probably enough as it
happened. For me.
DWJ: I have some books and some formulas. So sometimes I will. I
love saddle, shoulders. Okay. Yeah. Not a bunch of people make
patterns like that. So I will often do that for myself. And
like I have kind of a standard pattern and again, and so people
are like, oh, you should and I'm like I'm going off of bits and
pieces from a book and slicing things together. Yeah. I'm not
designing this. Like I can make anything from my bust size.
Yeah. You want to ask me to make it for somebody else? No, but
it's my bust size. I got you.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. I'm interested in the
thing you said about patience. Because I think I certainly I
don't know whether you do people, lots of people say
you're you're much more patient than I am. I couldn't wouldn't
ever have the patience for knitting, and associate patience
with knitting. And it sounds like you've felt like you've had
to use a lot of patience in your recovery. I wonder whether you
feel like patience is something knitters have, did you get more
patient through knitting or is that just something people say?
DWJ: Something people say because I think if you want
something you will be patient for it. A lot of things that you
want or need don't aren't instantaneous. I also think and
because I deal with students that we're in a culture right
now, instant gratification and immediacy, you know, students
are always asking like, Well, how did you all do such as that
for you and your undergrad? I'm like, well, first of all, we
didn't have Ubers. I couldn't call a con man, like, I had to
make a plan. We had to figure these things out. We didn't all
have cell phones. Um, so I think I am patient in that respect.
I've always kind of been a patient person when it comes to
things that I want. And so I think when people see other
knitters and are, like, oh, I can never do it. I think people
are just intimidated. It seems like it's this really complex
thing, because I remember seeing it for the first time, like, how
long do people get it to do that, and it become this thing,
but, um, I mean, it just takes a little bit of practice. And then
I'll have to tell my students that do. I wasn't a sweater
knitter on day one, everybody makes a crappy potholder or a
scarf with really big holes in it. Yeah. And you have to accept
that, um, and especially like, I'm, I am a person that's very
much a perfectionist. I can be a little bit anal about things.
And so I had to let that go in knitting,
Mia Hobbs: okay.
DWJ: And that that took a little bit for me, but to realise like,
the perfection is in the practice. And then I'm better
now. Because I know how I have more confidence, I can fix a
dropped stitch, I can see my mistakes and frog back. And I
think the beauty in it is that if I really really mess it up, I
just unravel it. Yeah. And sometimes I think it's people
like, it's just such a waste of time. But it isn't, if you learn
from it and like, again, I go back to like, I like learning.
Yeah. And so as long as I'm learning and getting something
out of it, then there's joy to be had at that. And I think we
missed that. Sometimes I have a class that I teach students, and
I'm like, the goal is for you to make mistakes, and learn from
the mistake that you make. Because it's the problem solving
class so I'm, like, you all are so afraid that you're gonna give
me the wrong answer that you just don't do it. Like you won't
show me the work you want. And the goal is, I want to see
multiple tries, I want to see how you attempted to do it the
first time to then figure out where you went wrong. And if you
don't make the mistake, I can't help you like I can't. And so I
often have to, and I had a really good semester with them
this year, because I really kept pressing like, no, no, I want to
see the mistakes. Like I want to see the mistakes, I need to see
all the work. But I think that's the really hard part for people
that to kind of get to them mistakes or how we learn like
it's okay, you don't have to be perfect. And because we're in
such a social media perfection, ultra filtered world. Um, it
makes it hard for people to understand or process that and
I'm like, that's how you grow. It's ok.
Mia Hobbs: And I think certainly, that's something that
knitting has helped me with. And I think in the therapeutic
knitting groups I've been running we have been focusing on
like, the worst thing that can happen, but you still got unless
you get the scissors out, you still got what you started with,
which is a ball of yarn and the needles. And, and that is a kind
of, in a way, a place for making safe mistakes. Like because how
wrong can it possibly go with knitting?
DWJ: My husband is really good. Because he knows me and I'm
anxious and I will be like, when we first got a dog, and like
we'd be late or stuck in traffic, and he'll be like,
Okay, what is what's the worst thing that can happen? Now, like
what should poop in the house? And he goes, Okay, so how do we
how do you fix them? Like, why me? I would just clean it up
like that. Okay, so let that go. And understand that. If we're
late, she might have accident, but we have the tools and means
to clean it up. Yeah, and she'll still be fine. Like, she's not
gonna starve to death. We're 30 minutes late coming home. Um,
he's like, she'll probably be even more excited when you walk
in the door. So he, he is very good at refocusing me and saying
like, Okay, tell me the worst thing that can happen. And how
then, do you have how do you overcome that hurdle once you
get there, which is one of the things I did do a lot with, like
before school started after having kind of been out of the
game for three months. He was like, tell me all the things
that you're afraid of. And then let's figure out how we resolve
Those fears. Um, and that was a great exercise for him to sit
down and be like, well, these are the things that make me
nervous. Okay. Think about solutions and how we make it
better. Or maybe only the practice if he things before
school starts. So you feel more comfortable like that. And so I
think that's how I feel to a knitting is that. Alright, this
cable looks insane. And I'm a little nervous. Let me practice.
Yeah, let me let me try this out. You know, that's what I
tell people too with swatches like, that's why swatches are
helpful. Yeah, give you a chance to see how something's gonna
react or respond. And then you can figure out if thats the
right needle, if that's the right technique, or maybe it's
not the project for you at that time.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. And do you have more than one thing on the go at
once if you got projects for different?
DWJ: Always!
Mia Hobbs: And are they different, for different I don't
know, moods or different situations in your life where
you need a different type of project.
DWJ: I'm usually I have multiple sweaters going on at once.
Because they require different things at different times. So I
like a sweater will have like, a lot of stockinette in the body
where I don't have to really look that great for just some
mindless knitting. Whereas if I'm just starting a sweater,
maybe I have to pay a little bit more attention to my increases,
I'm building out the yoke. Two colour brioche when I'm really
stressed, because it makes me take my mind off of whatever it
is that I was thinking about and makes me focus on the project at
hand.
Mia Hobbs: So you'll gravitate towards something more
complicated if you're really stressed, and you need to kind
of Yeah, same
DWJ: yeah, it helps me recenter and say like, I need to not
think about this for 30 minutes. Let me pick this up. Because
then I'm gonna have to really look at this because I don't
want to mess this up. Yeah.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. It's kind of a bit of an escape from stress.
DWJ: Yeah, and then just have stuff like I get. I get in the
mood. I'm like, I just really wanted to knit a colourwork
sweater. Yeah. Or I just really want to use the yarn. Um, and
I've had moments where like, yarn will arrive and I'm like,
well, casting on something else immediately. Um, I actually got
some, some boucle yarn yesterday. And I'm like, Well,
I'm gonna make a hat.it's cold,
Mia Hobbs: yeah. Yeah. I always ask about a significant knitting
project.
DWJ: Um, I always love. I always love for my mom
Mia Hobbs: for your mom.
DWJ: She always, always always gets excited. No, it can be a
wrap can be a sweater, it doesn't matter.
Mia Hobbs: She's not a knitter.
DWJ: No, no, no one else in my family is, um, so anytime I make
her something, there is this level of joy and excitement from
my mother that is so genuine and so. So pure. And it's that it's
that thing where you're like, This is why you make something
for other people because they genuinely like get it and love
it. And she wants to tell everyone that her daughter made
it for her. So I made her a sweater called a. simmetrie that
I love. That was a little bit complex for me. And she wore it
the first time she had to travel out of town after my dad passed
away. And a woman she was sitting eating in a hotel bar by
herself. And a woman came up to her and asked her if she had
knit that sweater. And she said no but my daughter did. And
turns out the woman was like a knitting instructor and Blah
blah and she ended up sitting down having lunch with my mom
and my mom made a friend. And it was just one of those things
where it's like something that you knit that brings my mom
comfort and excitement but then also found find a way to like,
connect her to other people. Um, she's also notorious for talking
to people in public when she sees other people knitting like,
well my daughter knits and then I'll get like Instagram message
like I met your mom today. Um, and so that that 100% Makes me
feel incredibly special and that I understand that she
appreciates what I make her so she's probably my favourite
person to knit for and she's hilarious because like I'll wear
a sweater I was FaceTiming her the other day. And I had on a
new sweater that I made for myself. And like we're in the
middle of talking about something else and she goes. And
that sweater you're wearing is real cute.
Mia Hobbs: is that her way of placing an order
DWJ: That was her hint so I too would like that sweater w'm
like, What do I have? in my stash As can I make this exact
sweater But yeah, so anything for my mom, I think is my actual
favourite thing. And then I have a former grad student who's
like a little brother to me, who, whenever he helps me out,
he always askes me for this very specific hat, asked for in a
different colour. Hmm. Um, and apparently, like, everybody
always tries to take this hat. Everybody loves his hat. His dad
was like, I mean, I've never heard that said like, can she
make me one of these? Like, no, you don't know her. And she has,
like, you have no relationship like, this is my special thing.
But it's this special moment. I think any knit is special, you
give it away, and then you see it in use. Like, I've seen him
post pictures, and it's winter time he forever has on one of
the hats. And for that, that always makes me happy to hear
that, like, you see a baby wearing something made, or a
blanket that you made like that, to know that it's being used in
love that makes me happy
Mia Hobbs: yeah, that actually happened to me. Last weekend, I
met up with my best friend who lives a few hours away. And she
was wearing the do you know, the scout shawl. And so I had knit
that when my dog was quite a small puppy and had like, so
it's intarsia and colour works that have like six balls of yarn
at once and I made it for my best friend's 40th. And we met
up in a different town and she was wearing it with this like
new yellow coat that just matched the which since she said
she hadn't bought especially because it matched the scarf,
but it looked great. And I happened to be wearing a
cardigan in the same yellow yarn that I'd used in her shawl. We
were like, looked like we were on a weird hen do or something
but it was. But it was so special to see her wearing that
I'd made her for her 40th which was in July. She's not a knitter
so, it was a slightly random gift. You know, you never quite,
I'm never quite sure if somebody who's not a knitter is gonna
appreciate you know, appreciate it.
DWJ: I know. Yeah, I don't knit for everybody. And sometimes
I've been like pressured and i'm, like, just make it and then
And I've probably got to be what you feel like making at that
I'm like, I didn't need to make this person this because I will
never ever see evidence of this thing ever again. Um, well, my
knitting circle is incredibly small. And, and I do that so
that I can make whatever I want whenever I want. I don't
necessarily want people to put demands on what I choose to create.
particular time? Like what floats your boat just then.
Yeah, like sometimes I'm like, I like I have a friend who I know
really wants a sweater from me. And I know what sweater I want
to make him. But I have no interest in making this sweater
right now. Yeah, like January will hit and and i'll be like
now's the time lets make this sweater? Yeah. But um, and
that's I tell people you might get a sweater from me in July.
You might get a sweater from me in February. Like it just
depends on what the mood is and how I feel at the time.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, and it's difficult to know how long these
things take. Also, people are saying how long does it take to
knit a sweater? I don't know.
DWJ: I'm like It depends. Like especially now um, I was
supposed to knit. I'm usually a fast knitter but I'm not this
year. And I'm my best friend comes with me to all yarn
related events. And she was coming to Rhinebeck and so I
knit her Rhinebeck sweater before. And I didn't have it in
me. I barely got through making mine in time for Rhinebeck but
my girlfriends in my little knitting group. Were like we'll
knit it for her because they love her too. And so I think for
me, that has also been like, one of the best things this year is
that I have a really good small circle of girlfriends who, when
I couldn't knit did stuff for me. And when I haven't had the
energy or the enthusiasm, they be like that, don't worry, we'll
handle it. Um, and so like they knit it, but then I ended up her
sleeves need to be a little bit longer. So I frogged back her
cuffs and made it a little bit longer for her so that there was
still a little bit of me in there. Yeah. But yeah, I just I
you know, I tell people like you get one when I feel like it
there have been some sweaters where I've loved the process.
And so I'll just spend a little bit of time and and put it away.
And so, I've had a sweater that took me like three months where
I'm like, Yeah, I'm probably gonna sat down and done this a
couple weeks, but I enjoyed it. So I would savour it and be
like, I'll come back to this. Like, I'll pick this back up
later.
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, so it's a lot about the process for you than
the end result Oh, And you've mentioned the idea of knitting,
making you feel calmer, and you've mentioned the kind of joy
and the colour, are there any other ways you think knitting
kind of helps you in terms of your well being, or
DWJ: I think I have met amazing people. Um, and so like I, you
know, I'd said before and 2020, when the pandemic started, if I
didn't have my, the group of five of us, I didn't have those
four women in my life, I don't know how I would have made it
through 2020. And I really don't know how I would have made it
through this year after getting sick and, and what connects us
is yarn. And it, you know, we incurred Look, we all bought
yarn, advent calendars this year. So that we could all open.
And so like, when I log off with you, I'm sure my text messages
will be full of pictures of what was in each person advent,
because we all got different ones,
Mia Hobbs: you know, go get different ones, okay.
DWJ: And so that we talked about and ooh and ahh over what each
person got, and, you know, we encourage our own purchases and
get excited and ooh and ahh over what each other's making and do
knit alongs amongst ourselves. So I think for me, knitting has
also brought amazing relationships into my life. And
even at my old job, like, I have a friend who I worked with, and
we had the same birthday, but years apart. And it turns out,
she was in there too. And so that was a way we kind of bonded
at work. Like she was a person where I probably we she and I,
we didn't really have anything in common. And then when
someone's like, oh, you know, this person knits and so does
Dana. And then we started talking and then created, had a
friendship, like and would bring yarn and pass stuff back and
forth at work. So I think knitting has also brought me
some amazing people into my life which i am thankful for.
Mia Hobbs: That's amazing. Has knitting ever been unhelpful? Do
you think?
No, um, I mean, you get tired of people being like, make me this.
Yeah, they don't understand what all goes into it. You know, when
my dad was sick, my dad had cancer. And I was at the
hospital a lot. I knit a lot at the hospital. And the nurses
would come and talk to me about stuff or bring their projects
and show me things that they were working on. Now I think it
I think it is only brought good things into my life, and good
things and memories and things.
And I was interested you said when you're talking about your
mum wearing a sweater, that when she went out for the first time
after your dad had died, and it was like her wearing, I don't
know, superpower or like an added confidence when she wore
that sweater. I don't know whether you feel that
relationship with your sweaters that you or other garments that
you make when you wear them.
DWJ: What I remember, like the first time I did this sweater,
and it was it was done in like a Hemp yarn so I could wear it in
the summer because I did it in like May. Yeah, the very first
time I was like, please don't let this whole for some reason.
I was like, please don't let this whole thing like unravel.
And just be naked at work.
Mia Hobbs: Did it stay together?
DWJ: It stayed together?I don't know why I thought but like, in
my head. I was like, this whole thing might just collapse. I
don't know what's gonna happen. Um, but I do feel better. When I
wear my own stuff. And then people like, Oh, what did you
make? And I'm like, yeah, yes, I did. Um,
Mia Hobbs: I always say I feel 20% happier when I'm wearing
something I made. And I used to also I don't know, i This
probably has happened to you as well. But once you're an
established, you know, have a reputation as a knitter, you
know, in your place of work or whatever. Then whatever you
wear, people say, oh, did you knit that? And then it's so
annoying. If you wear something that you bought in a shop and
you're like, No, I totally could have made this it would be so
easy. But I didn't
DWJ: I haven't bought a sweater. I bought Actually no, I bought a
sweater for the first time in the store the other day. And I
told my husband the only reason I bought it because it's in some
neutral colours that I would not. I wouldn't find joy in
knitting this for myself. So I'm just going to buy this because I
know I would be like, No, I'm not knitting this and I would
change it but I needed like a neutral to go with something
else. But I my students get the most excited about it. And I had
a student every day would come in. I will walk in and he's like
professor. Did you make it and I say Nate? I tell you every week
Yep. Yes, I made that like he was. So it is especially the
young man he was so like, amazed that I could make clothes.
Because they see me knitting. And so my students probably
asked me the most like, thing and you'll see the look on their
face might come in and like what's going on with them? Like,
did you make that one I'm Like, yeah, I made this one. Yeah. all
my sweaters I make all of them.
Mia Hobbs: I have one from when the dog was in the terrible like
shark teeth phase or if the kids are sick and you don't want them
to vomit on a handknit jumper that I keep in the back of the
wardrobe, but the others are all handmade now. Yeah, I was going
to ask about knitting high end and knitting low. If you've got
any in mind.
DWJ: Knitting High. Probably the first time I figured out how to
adapt a sweater for Jelly Bean's size.
Mia Hobbs: Oh, yeah. And can you remember what that was.
DWJ: Uh huh. It was an Angelina pullover. Um, and I knit it for
myself first. And she was an had been a new rescue. And so we
hadn't had her for long. But the whole time I've been knitting
mine, she had been using the ball of yarn as a pillow. And
she's so little, because she's just five pounds. And sometimes
you buy some of the store bought stuff. It's a little too big.
And I was like, You know what? I bought her stuff. And I paid too
much money for things. I need you to sit down. I've already
knit this. So I just need to do the math to shrink it down. And
I did it. And it was the most adorable, ridiculous thing I
ever knit.
Mia Hobbs: and she loves wearing them.
She loves I mean, she wears clothes every day. Because yeah,
they're cold. Yeah. And it just was one of those things where
you know, cuz, like, why would you do that? Or that? Cuz it
made me happy. Like, that's literally the reason. um so that
is a really good high, can you think of a low? Oh, I can tell
you low, I really there was just beautiful cardigan that I really
wanted to make. And I got halfway through it. But it was
fishermen's rib and it was killing my hands. Okay, and it
took me a year and a half to Frog it.
Oh!
I finally like I have to let you go. Because I'm never gonna
finish you. Because every time I pick you up, like I feel the
ache in my hand. And it wasn't even small yarn. It was just the
stitch and the positioning of the hand. Like it just was too
much. Um, and someone else saw it was like You're like halfway
through. And I was like, Yeah, but I'm never there. I can't, I
can't do that was sad. But in frogging it. I ended up using
the yarn and making something with an amazing rainbow. Like
something else. I'm not too sad anymore. Like, yeah, it had a
better life. So I think probably the low would be in realising
like what those limitations are. And I think this year, I've not
knit as much as I would love to. Yeah. Okay. I've still made some
really great things that I'm excited about. Just in my head
has all these things that I want to make sure. And I always end
need to be an octopus with multiple arms. Yeah, and knit
way more than I do.
Yeah. Yeah. So you're full of ideas. And is that part of the
joy of the knitting? Like the planning the next project and
what colours or yarn you're going to use? And?
DWJ: 100% 100% Yeah, yeah, I love like, especially if I'm
knitting for someone else. I love that moment. When I know
the person I figure out the yarn and the pattern, it all clicks,
and it's so perfect. And you're like, like, my husband wanted
some sweater and I realised I knit this version of this
sweater for my sister the year before. And I realised I had the
perfect combination of yarn to make it for him a colourwork
sweater. And he never pays attention. So like I've been
knitting it. And then finally I was like, Okay, I need to try
this on. He's like, why? And I was like, I've been knitting a
sweater. Right? Like that's for me. I'm I guess, I mean,
Mia Hobbs: I saw someone on Instagram. do you know. I think
drunk knitter I think is their Instagram and she was had a, she
was knitting next to her husband. And then she got him to
take a picture of her knitting something for him. And I was
thinking, I so could do that.
DWJ: My husband, we went, we went to New Orleans on a trip
one year, and we're in a store and he held up a scarf and he
was like, if you could make me something like this, I would
love it. So while we're there, I took him into the yarn shop like
we'll pick the Colour yarn you want. So he knew the yarn. And
we used to commute together in the car, and I knit that scarf
for him in the car in front of him for Christmas. And he never
noticed. He never noticed I pulled that scarf out every
morning and every evening in our commute, and I made it in the
car in front of that man. And he never noticed. So I realised if
I don't talk about what it is that I'm making. Yeah, he pays
absolutely
Mia Hobbs: screened it out.
DWJ: Because I'm always knitting. Yeah, why would he
think it's for him? Yeah. So it wasn't until I said them the
other day, like, you know, this what it is for you? He's like,
what?
Mia Hobbs: I was wondering whether you could get him a
surprise. Clearly you can. Yeah, yeah.
DWJ: All the time. And then I'm like, he's, like, yes, yes. paid
zero attention.
Mia Hobbs: But he's delighted for the outcome.
Oh, no, he's not. I know. It's like, there's certain certain
things that make like there are hats. I haven't even gotten to
block because as soon as I show him, like, I just finished your
hat. And the next day, I'm like, where did it go? And then he
comes home, and it's on his head. The process not over it
needs to be blocked. Um, so there's something that he
absolutely like. And he is very, He's usually very specific. He
is very specific in his request, and will like, show you a
picture or give you an example and then tell you what colour
okay. And he usually only asked for one thing a year, and I
can't so I always make it for him. So I made him a sweater
this year because I wanted to. But he has asked for a scarf and
a specific yarn, which I got for him. So I'll be working on that
mindlessly, for him garter stitch scarf, it's really more
about the yarn. He thought. He saw a speckled yarn in a sweater
that I made. He's like, I want yarn like that. But it like
blue, red and white. And so like, oh, he just wants
speckles. Okay.
He didn't know he wanted speckles,
DWJ: he didn't know. He kept looking at my sweater. I like I
like, like this effect. And so i'm like, you like the yarn?
Okay. That's what you're telling me is you'd like the speckled
yarn. Got it? I got it.
Mia Hobbs: So you just have to translate that. Yeah. For him.
It
DWJ: He usually gives me the visuals are enough thing. Yeah.
Where I can figure out and I'll ask questions like, Is it the
texture? Or is it the colour or how it's arranged? And he'll be
like, no, no, it's this and I'm like, oh, that I can do.
Mia Hobbs: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I always end the podcast with
asking, what's the greatest gift that knitting has given you for
the rest of your life?
DWJ: Creative expression, probably. I've always been a
really creative, artistic person. And I think it has
helped me find ways to express myself even like, embroidering
on my knits now. Hmm. So like, as I go through some quotes and
things I pull in grad school, and I was like, You know what, I
just need to start embroidering some of these things onto like
simple sweaters because these are like things that I live by
are things that are kind of what guide me in my research and my
academic work or like, things that I love. And so it has given
me another way to kind of have a creative outlet and express
myself, which I'm very thankful for. And isn't necessarily
something that we get all the time or, you know, I was raised,
where my parents really encouraged my creativity and for
me to express myself in those kinds of ways. So to find a way
as an adult to have an outlet, I think so often we get caught up
in work. Yeah, allow that to take over our lives and my dad
was always like, I do not live to work I work so that I can
live the life that I want to live and so I always tried to
find a balance and to find moments of joy for myself and
things that like that come outside of work when I leave my
my when I used to leave with nine to five job, I had other
things I wanted to do and enjoy and I told my students like it's
a little different for me as a professor, but like, I told him,
you know, my, my winter break is about Yes, I have some research
work I had to do, but also I'm gonna knit and I'm gonna play
video games. And I'm gonna give myself that mental break that I
need. Because I also think it rejuvenates me and it makes me a
better educator, a better person because I have creativity and
things that are exciting outside of just doing every day.
Mia Hobbs: That's great. I often like I often see young people
for therapy Who are in exam years and I find, they often end
up giving up their hobbies for those exam years, because
they're trying to focus on passing exams. And I'm like, No,
this is the time you need those things even more.
DWJ: This is when you need it. And I for me, you know, I just
sat for comps, so two days, for 12 hours total of writing. And I
just my in between hours and my in between days, I was knitting
as a way to say, I have all this stuff that I've stored in my
brain. So I need to just give myself a moment to not just
focus on what it is that I've been writing and working on
thinking about theories and methodology and, like, let's
work on this hat. Because
Mia Hobbs: I find sometimes that the ideas percolate a bit when
I'm knitting, like, I'm not trying to access thinking about
work or having ideas about things, but somehow they arrive.
When I'm knitting.
DWJ: Sometimes I have that verse. And so I scribble notes
on my patterns. Okay. Um, and then also for me, because a lot
of my research goes into the knitting community. Sometimes it
makes me think about or see things in different ways. So I
have time to kind of process that information. Yeah. No, I
always make my my best friend has a really stressful job. And
I'm like, You need to pick up crocheting or weaving. Because
they are stressing you out. And I want you to find a way to
disconnect and reconnect with yourself so that they don't pull
all of the creativity out of you just for this job that you get
to save a little bit for yourself.
Mia Hobbs: Dana, thank you so much for agreeing to be on the
podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure hearing your
experiences and all your ideas.
DWJ: Thank you for having me.
Mia Hobbs: Thank you so much for listening to series, one of the
why I knit podcast. I've really enjoyed having these
conversations and sharing them with you. If you've enjoyed the
podcast, please subscribe so that you're notified when series
two begins at the beginning of March. Thank you