00:00:00.717 --> 00:00:05.537
How many terrorist attacks have you survived? What about breast cancer?
00:00:05.777 --> 00:00:08.497
What about being poisoned by anthrax?
00:00:08.877 --> 00:00:12.117
I'm hoping that you said no to all of the above.
00:00:12.377 --> 00:00:18.677
But for today's guest, Dr. Nina Cerfolio, she can check off each of those.
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You can basically say that this woman is about to present you with a masterclass in resilience.
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I welcome you to episode 274.
00:00:30.877 --> 00:00:34.957
What's up, my friend, and welcome to Grit, Grace, and Inspiration.
00:00:35.137 --> 00:00:40.097
I am your host, Kevin Lowe. 20 years ago, I awoke from a life-saving surgery
00:00:40.097 --> 00:00:42.817
only to find that I was left completely blind.
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And since that day, I've learned a lot about life, a lot about living, and a lot about myself.
00:00:48.457 --> 00:00:52.237
And here on this podcast, I want to share those insights with you.
00:00:52.397 --> 00:00:55.957
Because, friend, if you are still searching for your purpose,
00:00:55.957 --> 00:01:02.777
still trying to understand why or still left searching for that next right path to take,
00:01:02.877 --> 00:01:08.017
we'll consider this to be your stepping stone to get you from where you are to where you want to be.
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Curious, how did you sleep last night? Me, I slept like a baby,
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all thanks to our brand new sponsor, MyPillow.
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It's time that you start sleeping like a baby too.
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I'm a psychiatrist and I am actually a mass shooting terrorist trauma expert.
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So early in childhood, I think I always was interested in understanding myself
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and other people and what made them do the things they did.
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So I always think I was very psychologically minded and motivated in terms of
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understanding human behavior.
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But more recently in my adulthood, I survived two terrorist attacks.
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One was I was a first responder down to 9-11.
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I made a conscious decision to go down there and to help survivors.
00:03:06.148 --> 00:03:11.928
And what it turned out being was helping other first responders and family members
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that had somehow gotten down there. You know, they had lost loved ones.
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And then as a consequence of
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being a first responder, I developed breast cancer and had a mastectomy.
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And continue to be a patient as a breast cancer patient under guidance of a
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great, great oncologist, actually. I'm very blessed.
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And then in 2005, I chose to go into the second Chechen war and genocide.
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So just to give a brief background of Chechnya, because people often don't know
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where it is or its history, which is very complicated, but Chechnya is a part of Russia.
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It's in the North Caucasus, which has the tallest Mount Elbrus is the tallest
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mountain range in Europe.
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And it's very rich with oils and minerals.
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And the Chechens have been trying to be independent from Russia since Catherine the Great.
00:04:07.088 --> 00:04:11.708
And they're often portrayed by Russians as being terrorists,
00:04:11.768 --> 00:04:17.068
even though, in my experience, they're Muslim and there are these farmers who
00:04:17.068 --> 00:04:20.308
are loving and would give you the shirt off their back.
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They're just the most loving, loyal people.
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And I chose to go into the Second Chechen War.
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So Putin had waged war with Chechnya in the early 90s, and this is what brought him into power.
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And there was an incident called the apartment building bombings in Russia,
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where in seven cities, apartment buildings were demolished by bombs that were planted.
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Hundreds were killed, thousands were injured.
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And Putin blamed these bombings on the Chechens.
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And it turned out that Putin actually was the KGB was the one who planted them.
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I don't know if you remember Alexander Leventenko, but he was the defected KGB
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agent who went to London and was killed by radioactive iodine.
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And he basically came forth and said that he and others were the ones that,
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as a KGB agent, planted bombs, which was blamed on Chechens.
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And also, there was the last apartment bombing.
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There were people that were community members that were being hyper-vigilant
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and checking for bombs at this point.
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And these community members found bombs underneath an apartment building.
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Building, they were found to
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only have been, the materials could only have been put there by the KGB.
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They obviously disassembled them. And then Putin said that this was an exercise
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that the KGB were practicing.
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But it's a long story and it's very complicated.
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But to make it short, he went into Chechnya and started bombing civilians and
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killed probably over 200,000 civilians.
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And I chose to go there at the time in 2005.
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It was the most dangerous place on earth. It was largely internationally ignored.
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And America actually joined forces with Putin in the war against terrorism.
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So as a consequence of that war, he's just continued on because there was no
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protest really by the West or by the world.
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And he did the same thing in Syria and Georgia and now in Ukraine.
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Although the world has, at least for a moment, seemingly woke up with Ukraine
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and the West has given a lot of money for ammunition and backing for Ukraine.
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So that is at least good. But when I was in Chechnya, it was a total genocide.
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It was it was Gaza Strip times 100.
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Yeah. Wow. So so back up a ways for me, though, back to 9-11 was this this first big event.
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And so my understanding when you talked about with your your career as a psychiatrist,
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you were really in the field of dealing with this type of situation, if I'm not mistaken.
00:07:23.438 --> 00:07:28.218
Yes. So I had been in academic medicine. I ran the psychiatric emergency room
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and walk in clinic. So for about five years, I taught residents and medical students.
00:07:33.718 --> 00:07:39.198
So I always was really in the trenches and dealing with people that had been
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arrested or murderers or psychotic people often that didn't get proper psychiatric
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treatment that then became violent.
00:07:47.378 --> 00:07:51.398
Yes. So although I've always had a private practice as well,
00:07:51.558 --> 00:07:54.458
but my expertise is in trauma.
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Yes. Yeah. So I'm curious, when 9-11 happened, would you mind sharing with me
00:08:02.718 --> 00:08:06.278
a little bit about that story as far as your experience?
00:08:06.398 --> 00:08:09.398
Where were you and what you were able to do?
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Yes, I would love to. So the day of 9-11, I'll never forget it.
00:08:14.418 --> 00:08:16.258
There wasn't a cloud in the sky in Manhattan.
00:08:16.498 --> 00:08:18.518
I was walking to see a patient.
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At 8 a.m., the first tower was already hit and on fire.
00:08:23.317 --> 00:08:27.997
And there were rumors that there was a plane, like a small plane that went in,
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but it was like an accident.
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And I'll never forget, my patient said, this was a terrorist attack.
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And then throughout the day, most of my patients canceled because public transport
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was stopped. So they couldn't get to me.
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A few of my patients I did see on that day. And we shared the trauma together.
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Other, but I was literally in the street in front of my office.
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So my office was on University Place and that's about a mile away from the towers.
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And I was an elite endurance athlete at the time. I was running marathons.
00:09:03.237 --> 00:09:06.397
I ran my first marathon in 2001.
00:09:06.737 --> 00:09:10.917
So my training route actually was to run down the West side highway,
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past the towers, the tip of Manhattan to the East side and back.
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It was about a 10-mile loop.
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And the towers really, for me, were a symbol of resilience and strength.
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They had been bombed earlier in, I think, in 1993.
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And they withstood that bombing. A bomb was placed in the parking lot.
00:09:32.977 --> 00:09:37.917
But to me, they were also my running companions. I always looked to them in
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terms of getting a sense of direction. And they always seemed to instill energy
00:09:42.397 --> 00:09:45.917
in me when I was really tired from a full day of patience.
00:09:46.297 --> 00:09:54.497
So I saw the towers, both the towers come down when I was standing on University
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Place, which was a suite in front of my office. I...
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Saw people walking away from the towers covered in dust.
00:10:04.606 --> 00:10:09.726
They looked like ghosts. They were in shock. I witnessed people were trying
00:10:09.726 --> 00:10:11.326
to get news what was going on.
00:10:11.526 --> 00:10:13.566
You couldn't really get a dial
00:10:13.566 --> 00:10:17.126
on your cell phone because it was so overwhelmed with all the calling.
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So people were trying to call loved ones. They couldn't get through.
00:10:21.206 --> 00:10:26.126
So people were listening on the radios for news as is what had happened.
00:10:26.206 --> 00:10:31.186
And then we learned that there was also the attack on our, on our Capitol in DC.
00:10:31.646 --> 00:10:36.046
And it was, I can't even really put it in words.
00:10:36.086 --> 00:10:42.686
It was a horror film, you know, to see the towers come down.
00:10:42.766 --> 00:10:47.366
And literally there were a hundred people gathered on the street and we all
00:10:47.366 --> 00:10:51.126
collectively gasped. Like we all couldn't believe what we saw.
00:10:51.446 --> 00:10:55.526
It was really mind boggling because I never thought the towers would come,
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come to like, they literally came down like pancakes, floor by floor,
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like they enveloped, enveloped inwards.
00:11:02.506 --> 00:11:07.106
And the next day I decided that because a lot of my patients also had canceled
00:11:07.106 --> 00:11:11.826
because they couldn't come to me, I decided that I would go down and help people.
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So I packed a lunch, I packed water, also extra water for people,
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blankets for people that needed them, and put on my work boots and went down
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there and And getting down there, I had to cross several checkpoints.
00:11:27.206 --> 00:11:33.746
And really, the only time I processed any fear was after I passed a checkpoint in Soho.
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And initially, the police didn't want to believe I was dead.
00:11:37.732 --> 00:11:42.792
A doctor at the time I was in my forties and I looked very young and I had to
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prove to them that I was a doctor.
00:11:44.352 --> 00:11:50.192
So they let me through and Soho was a ghost town there. You could literally hear a pin drop.
00:11:50.492 --> 00:11:57.012
I've never heard New York city. So quiet. It was quiet after Trump won, but not like this.
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This was like a vacuum of silence.
00:12:00.632 --> 00:12:05.892
And a voice said to me, you know, turn around and run because everyone had left Soho.
00:12:06.232 --> 00:12:13.012
Most people had evacuated. But I continued down and then I started moving debris.
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It was unrecognizable down there.
00:12:16.612 --> 00:12:23.512
It was fires going on and stacks of debris, like 10, 12 stories high.
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There was ash raining. I don't even remember the color of the the ash.
00:12:28.372 --> 00:12:34.172
There was a toxic, noxious smell to your eyes, to your skin.
00:12:34.472 --> 00:12:39.972
It was hard to breathe down there. Someone handed me work gloves and a surgical mask.
00:12:40.032 --> 00:12:44.432
And just spontaneously, the people that had gone down there formed a bucket
00:12:44.432 --> 00:12:48.212
brigade and started moving debris along the line.
00:12:48.232 --> 00:12:53.692
We handed it off to the next person in an attempt to look for victims under all the debris.
00:12:53.972 --> 00:12:59.272
And then And eventually, I was down there the first day for about 16 hours.
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And there was a medical triage unit that was just spontaneously formed with other doctors.
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I was the only psychiatrist that went down there then.
00:13:09.752 --> 00:13:16.692
And we helped provide medical and psychiatric aid to people.
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I dealt with a construction worker who was having anxiety because he had built
00:13:24.092 --> 00:13:28.232
the World Trade Center and then he had gone down with his crane and couldn't find any survivors.
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He was having extreme anxiety. And actually, somehow we had medication there.
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I was able to give him some Ativan.
00:13:38.093 --> 00:13:42.973
And to talk to him for a while. And eventually he was able to go back and go
00:13:42.973 --> 00:13:44.693
back to work to look for survivors.
00:13:45.213 --> 00:13:53.493
I also was asked to see family members who were disturbing the rescue process.
00:13:53.713 --> 00:13:59.653
They were insisting that their loved one, they had last spoken to them at a
00:13:59.653 --> 00:14:04.253
certain point under the World Trade Center and they wanted rescuers to go look for them.
00:14:04.353 --> 00:14:09.493
So I had to work with them to try to support them so that they would be better
00:14:09.493 --> 00:14:12.913
able to really accept that most likely they weren't going to find their loved
00:14:12.913 --> 00:14:14.933
one at this point, which they didn't.
00:14:14.953 --> 00:14:18.793
Other like firemen getting them medical help as well.
00:14:18.893 --> 00:14:28.173
So yeah, it was really a radically unifying experience of all these first responders
00:14:28.173 --> 00:14:31.313
who came together to help our brothers and sisters.
00:14:31.953 --> 00:14:37.433
And we really rose rose above the horror, the devastation, the death,
00:14:37.613 --> 00:14:40.333
the loss, the injury, the sorrow, and,
00:14:40.838 --> 00:14:44.138
And it was, for me, a very spiritual experience.
00:14:45.178 --> 00:14:50.178
Yeah, absolutely. One question that I am wondering about is,
00:14:50.278 --> 00:14:55.418
here you are, a psychiatrist, you're there to help others.
00:14:55.678 --> 00:15:02.498
Was there a moment in time, whether down at ground zero or maybe back at home
00:15:02.498 --> 00:15:05.238
when you broke down yourself?
00:15:05.778 --> 00:15:14.378
That's a great question. So I was brought up to not show any emotion, to super perform.
00:15:14.618 --> 00:15:19.398
I was expected to be a good little Catholic girl, not express my feelings,
00:15:19.518 --> 00:15:21.178
but super perform in sports.
00:15:21.518 --> 00:15:26.458
And luckily, I was a natural athlete. A lot of people in my family are natural athletes,
00:15:26.618 --> 00:15:31.838
but I was expected to super perform at sports, often not being given the proper
00:15:31.838 --> 00:15:37.338
tools to do so as well, but to rise above that. and at school as well.
00:15:37.438 --> 00:15:40.818
It's sort of my parents' motto was, you know, we're going to break you down,
00:15:40.878 --> 00:15:42.918
but then they never really built us back up.
00:15:42.978 --> 00:15:46.278
Kind of like in the military, they break you down, but then they build you back up.
00:15:46.518 --> 00:15:50.478
My parents would break us down, but not really build us back up.
00:15:50.618 --> 00:15:58.358
So I was a person that grew up, it's called counterphobia in psychiatry,
00:15:58.458 --> 00:16:03.198
which is where where you go into your fears and you overcome them.
00:16:03.478 --> 00:16:07.998
So because I felt unseen, unloved, unworthy in my childhood.
00:16:08.758 --> 00:16:14.578
I felt that I needed to constantly super perform or super achieve to overcome those feelings.
00:16:14.678 --> 00:16:20.938
So to answer your question, no, I never really had a breakdown or processed or cried.
00:16:21.098 --> 00:16:26.918
What I did have was recurrent nightmares of planes flying into buildings,
00:16:27.218 --> 00:16:31.138
buildings collapsing, collapsing, people jumping out of burning buildings.
00:16:32.218 --> 00:16:39.218
These things, I did have recurrent nightmares, but I never had a breakdown or...
00:16:40.118 --> 00:16:43.938
Cried or processed my sorrow there.
00:16:44.258 --> 00:16:49.698
I mean, I have subsequently, I think, in my own therapy, but not like,
00:16:49.778 --> 00:16:55.258
I know some people that went down there who were psychologists started having
00:16:55.258 --> 00:16:57.778
a breakdown there. They couldn't process and they had to leave.
00:16:58.078 --> 00:17:04.338
I very much was brought up, up, so to speak, in an emotional war.
00:17:04.578 --> 00:17:08.958
So going into a war for me was a reflex.
00:17:09.278 --> 00:17:13.438
It was something that I knew too well.
00:17:13.558 --> 00:17:18.038
So it wasn't unfamiliar to me at all. It was how I was brought up.
00:17:18.138 --> 00:17:21.038
So no, no, to answer your question, no.
00:17:21.358 --> 00:17:27.358
Other than with flashbacks and nightmares, yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:27.658 --> 00:17:33.018
Understandable. My other question is, is did you find yourself in the years
00:17:33.018 --> 00:17:38.778
after 9-11 working with a lot of people who were directly impacted by the terrorist
00:17:38.778 --> 00:17:42.598
attacks, whether by losing a loved one or were they or themselves? himself?
00:17:43.038 --> 00:17:47.398
Absolutely. I had many patients that worked down there.
00:17:47.458 --> 00:17:51.358
I had a lovely female patient who had just gotten married.
00:17:51.438 --> 00:17:55.358
She didn't like New York City, who hated working in the World Trade Center buildings.
00:17:55.678 --> 00:18:01.498
She was trapped in the second building and was told to stay at her desk.
00:18:01.638 --> 00:18:03.238
And luckily she didn't listen.
00:18:03.498 --> 00:18:09.058
She hated the World Trade Building. She found them really claustrophobic and hated working in them.
00:18:09.218 --> 00:18:13.918
And luckily, she didn't listen to what she was told and her and her co-workers
00:18:13.918 --> 00:18:18.438
left and narrowly escaped the second building collapsing.
00:18:18.938 --> 00:18:24.558
And then I also had patients who lost their father who worked for...
00:18:24.558 --> 00:18:31.198
So Cantor Fitzgerald was a Wall Street investment firm and it was impacted.
00:18:31.378 --> 00:18:36.778
The first plane literally flew into the floor that the Cantor Fitzgerald was on.
00:18:37.078 --> 00:18:43.158
So no one was ever found from that firm who worked there on that day.
00:18:43.358 --> 00:18:46.698
My patient's father, they never found his body.
00:18:47.018 --> 00:18:51.618
And I worked with her for many, many years. And 12 years after 9-11.
00:18:52.578 --> 00:18:57.898
They found a humerus on top, like the bone in the arm, the humerus,
00:18:58.118 --> 00:19:03.578
on top of a building, A high storied building in Manhattan downtown.
00:19:03.958 --> 00:19:08.738
And it turned out to be her father's bone, like DNA.
00:19:09.038 --> 00:19:14.698
So, you know, most people that lost loved ones down there did not receive a
00:19:14.698 --> 00:19:16.358
body or a bone or anything.
00:19:16.821 --> 00:19:22.401
Any remnants of their loved ones. Yes, I had many patients that either were
00:19:22.401 --> 00:19:23.381
down there that escaped,
00:19:23.541 --> 00:19:32.121
that lost loved ones or that worked down there and were just so traumatized by the whole event.
00:19:32.261 --> 00:19:34.381
Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
00:19:34.801 --> 00:19:41.001
My last question with direct, you know, related to 9-11 is, is I know that a
00:19:41.001 --> 00:19:44.961
lot of people in the years after had medical issues.
00:19:45.561 --> 00:19:51.261
Did you experience anything yourself? Yeah. So I have difficulties breathing.
00:19:51.621 --> 00:19:56.541
I've been told that I developed asthma recently. And I wonder if it's not.
00:19:56.881 --> 00:20:01.701
I know that several, many people have developed asthma from being down there.
00:20:01.761 --> 00:20:03.681
I guess I just don't even really want to know.
00:20:03.801 --> 00:20:08.761
I developed breast cancer as a result of being down there and my work down there
00:20:08.761 --> 00:20:17.161
in 2017. and I'm followed by the World Health Trade Center Insurance and they're wonderful actually.
00:20:17.381 --> 00:20:24.601
And they basically provide care to people who have 9-11 related diseases.
00:20:24.701 --> 00:20:29.401
Many people who have developed cancer like me from being a first responder down
00:20:29.401 --> 00:20:31.301
there and many people have died.
00:20:31.361 --> 00:20:34.981
So now there are many more people that have actually died from cancer related
00:20:34.981 --> 00:20:42.761
9-11 disorders than actual people who died during that horrible day on terrorists. Yes.
00:20:43.281 --> 00:20:48.421
Wow. Yeah. Yes. Wow, wow, wow. Isn't that almost hard to believe?
00:20:48.981 --> 00:20:55.481
It is. It's so hard to believe. And it's such a testament to how human spirit
00:20:55.481 --> 00:21:00.861
is so interconnected and beautiful that we're all so willing to,
00:21:00.921 --> 00:21:03.501
you know, firemen, policemen, doctors, contractors,
00:21:03.721 --> 00:21:09.561
construction workers, really put our own life on the line to go down there to
00:21:09.561 --> 00:21:14.621
help our brothers and sisters who were vulnerable and in a horrible situation and needed our help.
00:21:14.721 --> 00:21:19.721
It really is a testament to human kindness and love and interconnectedness.
00:21:20.021 --> 00:21:21.301
Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:22.281 --> 00:21:29.321
So my next Next question is, you go through this experience during 9-11.
00:21:29.761 --> 00:21:40.361
What then makes you want to go over to Russia, over out of the country to pursue other endeavors?
00:21:40.801 --> 00:21:45.581
I almost would feel like you might have been like, okay, it's time for me to play it safe.
00:21:45.961 --> 00:21:49.721
But you kept going. And so I'm kind of curious what led to that.
00:21:49.921 --> 00:21:54.041
That's a great question. So I think it would have been wise for me to process
00:21:54.041 --> 00:21:56.421
that or to think that, but at the time...
00:21:57.250 --> 00:22:03.650
I was an elite endurance athlete. I was actually winning some ultra marathons
00:22:03.650 --> 00:22:06.890
and, you know, overall, not just even in my age group.
00:22:07.010 --> 00:22:11.750
And I had won the half marathon on the China wall in Beijing.
00:22:12.030 --> 00:22:17.490
I had placed second overall of women in the Kurt Steiner.
00:22:17.810 --> 00:22:22.910
It's a 32 mile race. And that's, you know, normal marathon is 26.2.
00:22:22.970 --> 00:22:27.230
So this is longer than that. in Central Park, the woman that beat me was a pro
00:22:27.230 --> 00:22:29.350
when she was 10 years younger than me.
00:22:29.530 --> 00:22:39.430
So I was really running sort of in this invincible, macho, I call it the warrior queen.
00:22:41.690 --> 00:22:47.910
Which is very much, you know, that was my defense growing up because I really
00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:52.530
felt unseen, unworthy, unloved. And I felt like I had to super perform.
00:22:52.730 --> 00:22:58.510
And if I won a race, I was loved for like 10 seconds and then it would go away.
00:22:59.030 --> 00:23:06.330
So I very much was in this warrior queen mode where I was overcoming my fears
00:23:06.330 --> 00:23:11.430
with Ironman and ultra marathons and, and sometimes, you know,
00:23:11.450 --> 00:23:13.030
winning them or placing overall.
00:23:13.310 --> 00:23:17.750
And I always have identified with marginalized people.
00:23:17.830 --> 00:23:22.550
I felt I felt marginalized growing up. I always have been the champion of people
00:23:22.550 --> 00:23:25.570
that have been bullied or ostracized or marginalized.
00:23:26.210 --> 00:23:29.650
So I felt a calling to go to Chechnya.
00:23:29.750 --> 00:23:35.050
I went there with the man who started this disabled running track club.
00:23:35.735 --> 00:23:38.475
And I had worked with blind people.
00:23:38.755 --> 00:23:43.315
Actually, I led a blind climber to the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro.
00:23:43.755 --> 00:23:49.175
I had also led people in the New York City Marathon who were in wheelchairs.
00:23:49.175 --> 00:23:51.715
So I had done a lot of work with disabled people.
00:23:52.215 --> 00:23:56.895
And I felt a calling, not only to go to Chechnya to help people medically,
00:23:57.175 --> 00:24:01.615
psychologically, psychiatrically, but we also started a running club there for
00:24:01.615 --> 00:24:07.115
the disabled kids as well. Well, so for me, it was just reflex.
00:24:07.535 --> 00:24:10.735
You know, my family didn't want me to go. A lot of people said,
00:24:10.955 --> 00:24:12.995
why am I going to help terrorists?
00:24:13.255 --> 00:24:18.095
And then I eventually did work to bring three of the boys back to get medical
00:24:18.095 --> 00:24:21.815
care who had lost arms, legs, part of their penises blown off,
00:24:21.915 --> 00:24:27.575
horrible, horrible, horrible injuries as a result of being in the second Chechen War.
00:24:27.995 --> 00:24:30.915
I had people say to me, why are you bringing terrorists here?
00:24:31.095 --> 00:24:34.295
You know, they're not going to want to leave. And these, these were like salt
00:24:34.295 --> 00:24:38.855
of the earth, kind, simple, loving farm people.
00:24:39.035 --> 00:24:44.455
They all had farms and they came here and they got their medical care and they
00:24:44.455 --> 00:24:47.675
wanted to go back home and they were, they were not terrorists, you know?
00:24:47.695 --> 00:24:50.415
So for me, it's just, it was reflex.
00:24:50.715 --> 00:24:56.015
I know it's maybe hard to understand, but for me, it was just like going home.
00:24:56.015 --> 00:25:02.095
You know, going home to me was a war of avoiding where the next explosion was.
00:25:02.315 --> 00:25:08.575
And in Chechnya, it was no different. So for me, it was going home in a lot of ways.
00:25:09.015 --> 00:25:12.755
Yeah, yeah. Understandable. How long were you over there?
00:25:12.975 --> 00:25:18.855
So I was only there 10 days and we were constantly the only reason we got in
00:25:18.855 --> 00:25:21.015
was because a KGB agent was with us.
00:25:21.115 --> 00:25:28.035
He he was with us. He shadowed us the whole time. he basically hated me because
00:25:28.035 --> 00:25:32.875
I did care about the Chechens and I did provide medical and psychiatric and
00:25:32.875 --> 00:25:34.135
psychological care to them.
00:25:34.435 --> 00:25:39.895
And he poisoned me probably like the fifth day I was there.
00:25:40.055 --> 00:25:45.935
And I knew pretty much immediately as if I was my own emergency room patient
00:25:45.935 --> 00:25:47.195
that I had been poisoned.
00:25:47.515 --> 00:25:51.615
And given the severity of my symptoms, I was in bed for three days.
00:25:51.635 --> 00:25:53.295
If I I tried to get up out of bed. I fell.
00:25:53.535 --> 00:25:55.995
I never had falling issues or balance issues.
00:25:56.615 --> 00:26:01.315
I had projectile vomiting of blood and diarrhea with blood.
00:26:01.455 --> 00:26:07.715
I had really high fever. I couldn't eat for at least three days. I lost 10 pounds.
00:26:07.795 --> 00:26:13.675
And at that time, I was in incredible shape. I'm 5'6". Then I weighed 110 pounds.
00:26:13.875 --> 00:26:16.015
I got down to 100 pounds then.
00:26:16.255 --> 00:26:20.355
I almost died there. And there There was no international doctors.
00:26:20.695 --> 00:26:22.515
Doctors Without Borders had been there.
00:26:22.955 --> 00:26:27.335
And one of their female physicians had been kidnapped and killed. So they left.
00:26:27.675 --> 00:26:31.515
So I was the only help that was really there. You know, it was a genocide.
00:26:31.555 --> 00:26:33.535
People were just as sick as me.
00:26:34.961 --> 00:26:37.941
So I have to stop real quick and ask you.
00:26:38.081 --> 00:26:44.681
So you're saying the guy who was hired to help you was the same guy who poisoned you?
00:26:44.821 --> 00:26:46.901
Yeah. So, I mean, help, quote unquote.
00:26:47.301 --> 00:26:52.361
I mean. Yes. Yes. He wasn't there to help us. He basically stole all our money.
00:26:52.441 --> 00:26:56.621
I had brought $3,000 to give to the Chechens to try and help them.
00:26:56.841 --> 00:27:00.501
At one point, the person I was with started protecting him.
00:27:00.521 --> 00:27:04.901
He stole clothes that we brought for the Chechens. and then the person I was
00:27:04.901 --> 00:27:07.961
with started protecting our passports because that was the next that was going
00:27:07.961 --> 00:27:10.281
to go, but he wasn't there to protect us.
00:27:10.381 --> 00:27:13.021
So, I mean, this is the game that Putin plays, right?
00:27:13.881 --> 00:27:18.701
So the man that I was with has had a long relationship with this KGB agent and
00:27:18.701 --> 00:27:22.481
I didn't, I didn't know he was a KGB agent until I figured it out myself.
00:27:22.641 --> 00:27:26.621
So he, he was presented to me as a sports Reuters journalist,
00:27:26.881 --> 00:27:32.881
which is what he was, but he also was a KGB agent and they had a long long embedded
00:27:32.881 --> 00:27:35.801
relationship that I don't even know about.
00:27:35.941 --> 00:27:40.981
But I do know that the man that I went with to Chechnya, who was the head of
00:27:40.981 --> 00:27:44.621
this disabled running club, helped this person get into,
00:27:45.181 --> 00:27:49.721
college in America, Queens, helped him get housing in Coney Island and,
00:27:49.961 --> 00:27:54.981
you know, facilitated what I'm sure is spying on our country.
00:27:55.121 --> 00:27:58.081
I mean, this is what he did. He was a professional killer.
00:28:01.881 --> 00:28:06.781
I And I figured out really quickly because I've dealt with people that kill
00:28:06.781 --> 00:28:15.061
people and are sociopaths that this was a professional killer and he was not
00:28:15.061 --> 00:28:17.501
interested in our helping people.
00:28:17.681 --> 00:28:21.041
He was not interested in any of it.
00:28:21.121 --> 00:28:27.521
He was there really to supervise us and to make sure that we did,
00:28:27.641 --> 00:28:29.381
I think, as little as we could do.
00:28:29.541 --> 00:28:36.001
So it's complicated. It is very complicated, but no, he was there very much
00:28:36.001 --> 00:28:38.081
to try to minimize our impact.
00:28:38.561 --> 00:28:45.441
And one day we met this lovely Chechen deaf refugee who had started this school.
00:28:46.221 --> 00:28:52.661
She had literally a mud room. It was like a house built of mud and it was one room.
00:28:52.661 --> 00:28:59.981
And this KGB agent was with us when she served us tea and she was so proud that
00:28:59.981 --> 00:29:02.461
she had built the school for other deaf Chechen refugees.
00:29:02.981 --> 00:29:05.261
We started a race there.
00:29:06.181 --> 00:29:12.181
It was the first, what we believe is the first time Muslims ran against terrorism. Right.
00:29:12.663 --> 00:29:19.663
And this woman was one of the Chechens who ran this race. It was a 5K and a government car.
00:29:19.923 --> 00:29:23.083
And I wasn't in the country at this time. This was reported to me.
00:29:23.183 --> 00:29:25.783
A government car rolled over her and killed her.
00:29:25.963 --> 00:29:30.563
And the message was to the Chechens, never have this race again. And they never did.
00:29:31.483 --> 00:29:35.503
So, I mean, this very much was orchestrated by the person that I was with.
00:29:35.603 --> 00:29:38.023
This was his amount. So, yeah.
00:29:38.543 --> 00:29:42.303
Wow. Now, just for context, can you explain to me?
00:29:42.663 --> 00:29:49.363
A KGB agent. What is that? So KGB agent is like a CIA agent.
00:29:49.563 --> 00:29:54.463
They're basically, so it's like Putin. So I can look there in my book,
00:29:54.543 --> 00:29:58.503
there's a whole chapter on Putin called Victim, Morrison to Perpetrator.
00:29:58.823 --> 00:30:03.443
He aspired to be a KGB agent. He went to KGB school. You go to KGB school.
00:30:03.703 --> 00:30:08.103
So first he became a lawyer, just a little, I can give a little background of
00:30:08.103 --> 00:30:11.083
Putin, Putin, which is, it's a very complicated story.
00:30:11.263 --> 00:30:15.003
There's two stories. One was that he was born out of wedlock.
00:30:15.003 --> 00:30:19.263
And then this woman married a man who was abusive.
00:30:19.283 --> 00:30:22.863
And then she sent Putin back to her parents.
00:30:23.703 --> 00:30:26.863
And then her parents couldn't deal with him.
00:30:27.023 --> 00:30:32.143
So they gave him to this couple who had lost two children during the siege of Leningrad.
00:30:32.423 --> 00:30:35.863
And those are actually Putin's parents today.
00:30:36.762 --> 00:30:43.942
And that here is this man that is abandoned, betrayed, handed off like a football, right?
00:30:44.062 --> 00:30:50.462
That is not wanted, has a mother who's ambivalent, then is given to this family.
00:30:50.542 --> 00:30:55.042
So the family that he was given to, they had survived the siege of Leningrad,
00:30:55.142 --> 00:30:56.482
which was in World War II.
00:30:56.922 --> 00:31:00.422
And the mother almost died from starvation.
00:31:00.602 --> 00:31:04.282
The father had been on the front and came home to find her body,
00:31:04.442 --> 00:31:07.722
her corpse on a wheelbarrow with other dead people. And he said,
00:31:07.762 --> 00:31:08.982
wait, she's still breathing.
00:31:09.102 --> 00:31:13.762
And he took her body and resuscitated her and she eventually survived.
00:31:14.182 --> 00:31:18.762
But then one of their biological sons died from starvation and diphtheria and
00:31:18.762 --> 00:31:21.462
another son died and then they were given Putin.
00:31:21.662 --> 00:31:28.862
And then he grew up in this horrible, horrible post-war environment in Leningrad.
00:31:29.262 --> 00:31:32.702
He grew up in a one-room apartment with like 12 other families.
00:31:32.802 --> 00:31:36.082
He was a skinny, scrawny kid. He was bullied, made fun of.
00:31:36.282 --> 00:31:39.422
He was a hooligan. He would fight people on the subway.
00:31:39.922 --> 00:31:45.462
And it was very much about him having this macho bravado to cover up his vulnerabilities
00:31:45.462 --> 00:31:52.462
and his sense of loss and not being wanted as a child. And he eventually went
00:31:52.462 --> 00:31:54.702
to law school, then KGB school.
00:31:54.902 --> 00:32:00.642
He wanted to be a KGB agent internationally, but apparently he wasn't that good
00:32:00.642 --> 00:32:02.462
of a student at KGB school.
00:32:02.562 --> 00:32:07.942
So he stayed in Russia and then he was brought into amazing power. hour.
00:32:08.042 --> 00:32:14.602
And so that just gives you a background of what a KGB agent is.
00:32:14.682 --> 00:32:16.702
And they're basically taught to kill people.
00:32:16.802 --> 00:32:22.322
I believe I was poisoned with manmade anthrax and both Russia and America had
00:32:22.322 --> 00:32:25.442
stockpiled manmade anthrax for biological warfare.
00:32:25.882 --> 00:32:29.922
And they agreed to stop, but Russia continued to stockpile it.
00:32:30.569 --> 00:32:38.049
And this is, you know, what you learn in KGB school. Wow, wow, wow. So insane.
00:32:38.489 --> 00:32:46.569
So insane. Yes. Now, when you were poisoned, how long did it take you to get
00:32:46.569 --> 00:32:48.869
over being poisoned with anthrax?
00:32:49.269 --> 00:32:52.989
I'm still dealing with the consequences of being poisoned. When someone's poisoned,
00:32:53.129 --> 00:32:55.929
there's always sequelae. But really for three years.
00:32:56.049 --> 00:33:00.869
So I was I went there in 2005, almost died there. But for three years,
00:33:00.889 --> 00:33:05.609
from 2005 to 2008, I lived in a liminal space closer to death than life.
00:33:05.749 --> 00:33:08.929
I couldn't get out of bed. I could barely lift my head.
00:33:09.209 --> 00:33:15.089
Because I'm a really resilient, determined person, somehow I got myself to work.
00:33:15.229 --> 00:33:17.589
It was a block away, like just walking a block.
00:33:17.809 --> 00:33:20.749
Here's this ultra endurance athlete that couldn't walk a block.
00:33:21.029 --> 00:33:24.289
Like I would walk a block and have to rest for like an hour.
00:33:24.289 --> 00:33:28.249
It had tremendous, I had pneumonia a hundred times.
00:33:28.389 --> 00:33:33.869
I had GI parasitic infections for 12 years. I developed 20 food allergies,
00:33:33.869 --> 00:33:35.829
never had a food allergy in my life.
00:33:36.269 --> 00:33:41.789
And then developed a chronic immunosuppressive disorder, which I still have.
00:33:42.029 --> 00:33:47.269
And I have consequences from that as well. But, you know, I'm a very determined person.
00:33:47.329 --> 00:33:52.869
I'll leave no rock unturned. So I had to do a lot of alternative medicine that's
00:33:52.869 --> 00:33:54.309
actually illegal in this country.
00:33:54.429 --> 00:33:58.649
But through my education with being poisoned and other people that had been
00:33:58.649 --> 00:34:03.409
poisoned, like the post office people here in New York City who were poisoned
00:34:03.409 --> 00:34:08.869
with anthrax, I learned how to fight it.
00:34:08.869 --> 00:34:13.109
You know, with thieves as an example, it's an essential oil that kills anthrax.
00:34:13.109 --> 00:34:18.449
And I did many, many detoxes. But one of them was a heavy, heavy,
00:34:18.509 --> 00:34:22.309
high dose detox with thieves, which is an essential oil.
00:34:22.509 --> 00:34:27.609
Yes. So no, it's, it's had ramifications that I still live with today.
00:34:27.669 --> 00:34:33.089
Although I would say right today, I'm probably 80% better, but really for three
00:34:33.089 --> 00:34:35.389
years, I was closer to death than life.
00:34:36.178 --> 00:34:47.938
Wow. Has that experience alone made you bitter, angry at the Russians who did this to you?
00:34:47.978 --> 00:34:51.858
I mean, like, I'm just trying to understand like your mindset and getting through
00:34:51.858 --> 00:34:53.258
this and even where you are today.
00:34:53.598 --> 00:34:58.878
So I think I was very upset with this particular person, especially when I heard
00:34:58.878 --> 00:35:03.958
that he killed the salt of this earth death Chechen refugee who started a school
00:35:03.958 --> 00:35:08.358
for other other deaf Chechen refugees and brutalized her,
00:35:08.418 --> 00:35:11.898
like run over her body when she's running a race against terrorists.
00:35:12.018 --> 00:35:13.038
I mean, it's just like outrageous.
00:35:13.658 --> 00:35:19.678
I certainly was enraged and angry with what he did to me as well for a long time.
00:35:19.898 --> 00:35:26.938
But I feel that my work here in the world and in my life is to overcome this
00:35:26.938 --> 00:35:34.418
type of tragedy and this type of darkness that I think we're all all capable of, unfortunately,
00:35:34.618 --> 00:35:43.118
but that I want to help people that are marginalized and ostracized and often
00:35:43.118 --> 00:35:48.318
suffer from undiagnosed psychiatric illness to get the psychiatric illness that
00:35:48.318 --> 00:35:52.438
they deserve and not to resort to retaliation and violence.
00:35:52.698 --> 00:35:57.918
Like I could have tried to retaliate and I didn't. I mean, you know,
00:35:57.918 --> 00:36:03.178
I mean, I did have an encounter with him, I should say, where he walked in on me in the bathroom.
00:36:03.358 --> 00:36:07.858
So we were sharing a house. It was a general's house in Ingushetia,
00:36:08.038 --> 00:36:11.218
which is the neighboring province from Chechnya.
00:36:11.898 --> 00:36:16.338
And I was in the bathroom. He walked in on me in the bathroom and he told me to get out.
00:36:16.518 --> 00:36:21.938
And I told him, don't talk to me like that. If you talk to me, you show me respect.
00:36:22.158 --> 00:36:24.178
You don't talk that way. That's embarrassing.
00:36:24.618 --> 00:36:27.118
And, you know, I refused to get out of the bathroom.
00:36:28.698 --> 00:36:33.018
Yeah. So, I mean, I'm the type, probably not the wisest move.
00:36:33.258 --> 00:36:36.698
You know, this man was barely five foot tall. He was like a Napoleon.
00:36:36.818 --> 00:36:37.998
He's barely five foot tall.
00:36:38.278 --> 00:36:42.818
He had an issue with his height. He was very angry.
00:36:42.938 --> 00:36:47.918
He was very angry with the Chechens. They also project and complicate things.
00:36:48.238 --> 00:36:52.718
For instance, he had told the man that I was with that the Chechens hated me.
00:36:52.818 --> 00:36:56.818
And the Chechens loved me. Like I was always playing with the Chechen girls
00:36:56.818 --> 00:37:02.198
and giving them like clothes and gifts and they were teaching me Russian lessons and Chechen lessons.
00:37:02.438 --> 00:37:07.338
And so it's always like a projection. It's a denial, deflection and projection.
00:37:07.698 --> 00:37:12.718
And I knew that Chechens knew exactly who he was. I could see it in their eyes.
00:37:12.938 --> 00:37:17.878
And we had an interpreter, but I could see how they recoiled from him.
00:37:17.918 --> 00:37:20.238
They knew exactly who he was and why it was there.
00:37:20.658 --> 00:37:27.578
So, yeah, no. No, but he was telling the person I was with that they didn't
00:37:27.578 --> 00:37:29.358
like me when they didn't like him.
00:37:29.538 --> 00:37:35.558
So this is what they very much do. It's all projection and deflection, but...
00:37:36.232 --> 00:37:39.992
No, I feel like I can't, I won't live my life with bitterness.
00:37:40.172 --> 00:37:45.712
I feel like the paradox is that I had the spiritual awakening from being poisoned.
00:37:45.792 --> 00:37:50.972
And what I learned was to slow down, to accept my vulnerabilities,
00:37:51.132 --> 00:37:55.812
to accept that my body's aging and it's not perfect,
00:37:56.052 --> 00:38:02.432
to accept that I am a human human being with frailties, but,
00:38:02.512 --> 00:38:09.492
but yet I am interconnected to, to everyone in the world and what we do or don't do has consequences.
00:38:09.752 --> 00:38:16.392
And I feel impassioned to try to decrease the gun violence that's happening in our world.
00:38:16.412 --> 00:38:24.432
Just yesterday, I was on script news with the Kansas city Superbowl championship parade, mass shooting.
00:38:24.692 --> 00:38:30.552
And, you know, ironically it was the six year year anniversary of the Parkland
00:38:30.552 --> 00:38:34.692
shooting where 17 students and teachers were killed.
00:38:34.812 --> 00:38:41.372
And that Parkland shooter suffered from hearing voices and was bullied and ostracized,
00:38:41.432 --> 00:38:45.512
was given up by his, so his parents had died and he was adopted.
00:38:45.992 --> 00:38:52.072
And here again is a kid who's unwanted, shuffled around and his biological mother
00:38:52.072 --> 00:38:53.792
was the only one who stabilized him.
00:38:53.932 --> 00:38:58.432
I mean, this is a kid that was was completely isolated and alone and bullied
00:38:58.432 --> 00:39:02.272
and ostracized his stepbrother, also bullied him.
00:39:02.392 --> 00:39:05.612
And in a moment, he chooses to
00:39:05.612 --> 00:39:10.452
retaliate and, you know, probably regrets that for the rest of his life.
00:39:10.592 --> 00:39:14.692
I mean, he, I listened to the videotape of him after the shooting, he did regret it.
00:39:14.772 --> 00:39:20.732
So no, I just feel impassioned, more impassioned to, to help people in that
00:39:20.732 --> 00:39:24.612
I won't live my life with bitterness or anger, because in my mind,
00:39:24.612 --> 00:39:28.432
that's what this person wanted. I mean, he clearly wanted me dead.
00:39:28.692 --> 00:39:33.812
And I think because I was in such incredible physical health and also because
00:39:33.812 --> 00:39:37.292
I'm a medical doctor, I could put the medical pieces of the puzzle together.
00:39:37.432 --> 00:39:40.872
I mean, it took me, so I was poisoned in 2005. 2010,
00:39:41.292 --> 00:39:46.992
I had enough strength to begin to sit up in my computer and start investigating
00:39:46.992 --> 00:39:52.952
my symptoms and then symptoms of people that had been poisoned with Anthrax. So our military.
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:58.120
Was vaccinated with anthrax. And many of the men died from heart attacks.
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:03.980
Many of the women developed very similar symptoms to me with chronic immunosuppression symptoms.
00:40:04.200 --> 00:40:11.220
I had weird rash, horrible rashes, not feeling, you know, feeling like a car had hit you.
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:15.080
I mean, just devastatingly, no energy.
00:40:15.560 --> 00:40:21.100
Many of my symptoms were similar. And yeah, I just, he had probably put the
00:40:21.100 --> 00:40:22.560
poison in my food or drink.
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:26.240
So, yeah. And at the time I developed flu-like symptoms.
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:30.540
And then three days later I developed these severe symptoms and that's characteristic
00:40:30.540 --> 00:40:34.500
of anthrax poisoning, which is you develop flu-like symptoms.
00:40:34.520 --> 00:40:37.020
And then three days later, most people die.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:43.060
And then it looks like food poisoning because by the time you think of anthrax,
00:40:43.060 --> 00:40:45.100
so that's the other story here,
00:40:45.200 --> 00:40:50.740
which which is anthrax, because it has now become a biological weapon.
00:40:51.160 --> 00:40:58.260
Anthrax is a simple bacteria that is in the ground and that's found in sheep.
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:02.340
So often sheep herders get it from handling sheep, their skin.
00:41:02.660 --> 00:41:11.860
And when people are diagnosed with anthrax poisoning, there currently is no test as a sequelae.
00:41:11.860 --> 00:41:16.700
So it's only if you're acutely infected when you're septic, which means you
00:41:16.700 --> 00:41:18.060
have an infection in your blood.
00:41:18.180 --> 00:41:22.140
So that would have been when I was in Chechnya, you have to think about it,
00:41:22.180 --> 00:41:25.760
which is most people aren't going to think about it unless you're in Russia
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:29.220
or in the Middle East where it's more endemic to the soil.
00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:33.820
And then you have to draw the blood and culture the blood to look for anthrax.
00:41:33.820 --> 00:41:39.280
So I actually found someone at the NIH in Bethesda, Maryland,
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:46.700
who was trying to get a blood test to detect anthrax many years after being poisoned.
00:41:46.780 --> 00:41:50.320
And she said, after three years, you no longer had antibodies.
00:41:50.600 --> 00:41:52.600
And I think by the time I found her, it was 2012.
00:41:53.805 --> 00:41:59.465
And I didn't have antibodies for it. So, but I don't even know if she has marketed
00:41:59.465 --> 00:42:01.145
that. This was all like research.
00:42:01.425 --> 00:42:04.245
She was doing research with people who had been poisoned with anthrax,
00:42:04.245 --> 00:42:05.865
like the post office people and myself.
00:42:06.725 --> 00:42:10.485
Yes. You know, and Western doctors are ignorant with anthrax.
00:42:10.565 --> 00:42:11.705
They don't know about it.
00:42:11.805 --> 00:42:17.045
They misinformed me. I had the leading GI infectious specialist in Manhattan
00:42:17.045 --> 00:42:18.785
say, oh, come into my office.
00:42:18.865 --> 00:42:22.285
I'll test for it. And then he said, oh, wait, there is no test for it.
00:42:22.285 --> 00:42:25.965
And so things like that, which was there.
00:42:26.185 --> 00:42:31.865
Western doctors are ignorant when it comes to anthrax. And I really had to do
00:42:31.865 --> 00:42:33.885
all this digging and research.
00:42:33.965 --> 00:42:38.305
And it's in my book. And I published medical papers on it as well,
00:42:38.405 --> 00:42:43.325
where I put the pieces of the puzzle together. And I realized the best medical
00:42:43.325 --> 00:42:48.845
guess that was manmade anthrax. I should also say I had Rife testing.
00:42:49.085 --> 00:42:54.125
So a Rife machine works on energy. So everything has energy.
00:42:54.325 --> 00:42:56.625
Certain bacteria have a certain vibrational frequency.
00:42:57.345 --> 00:43:01.845
So I had biological testing on a Rife machine, meaning from my hair,
00:43:02.045 --> 00:43:04.625
morning sputum, and fingernails.
00:43:04.665 --> 00:43:08.745
And she's the one that detected I had man-made anthrax all throughout my body.
00:43:08.845 --> 00:43:12.025
And that was in, I believe that was in 2010. and 10.
00:43:12.205 --> 00:43:16.265
So, and then I did more research to make sure that that was accurate.
00:43:16.765 --> 00:43:22.525
Wow. Wow. You have definitely been through a lot because it was after that,
00:43:22.625 --> 00:43:25.345
that you ended up having breast cancer, correct?
00:43:25.925 --> 00:43:30.565
Yes. Yes. Yes. So 2001, I was a first responder.
00:43:30.685 --> 00:43:35.745
2005, I was poisoned with anthrax, I believe. And then 2017,
00:43:36.065 --> 00:43:37.845
yes, I developed breast cancer.
00:43:38.005 --> 00:43:40.265
Yes. Yeah. And had a mastectomy. Yes.
00:43:41.049 --> 00:43:48.149
Yeah. My goodness. My goodness. All of this then is what inspired you to write
00:43:48.149 --> 00:43:50.409
the book that has brought us here today.
00:43:50.729 --> 00:43:54.249
Yes, very much so. Tell me about the book.
00:43:54.589 --> 00:43:58.669
Yes, I would love to. It's my baby. It's my labor of love.
00:43:58.989 --> 00:44:03.209
I, you know, as a doctor, I didn't really know how to write.
00:44:03.349 --> 00:44:08.009
So it was my passion. I could write psychoanalytically, which is very different
00:44:08.009 --> 00:44:13.469
writing and medically, but not, not creative writing or for lay people writing.
00:44:13.669 --> 00:44:17.289
It's an art. And so I went back to school.
00:44:17.369 --> 00:44:21.389
I took classes at Sarah Lawrence, which is here in New York,
00:44:21.389 --> 00:44:24.429
to write and learned how to write.
00:44:24.589 --> 00:44:26.989
Initially, I didn't even know how to type or use the computer.
00:44:27.169 --> 00:44:30.629
I remember I would handwrite everything and send it to this lovely man in the
00:44:30.629 --> 00:44:32.749
Philippines who would type things for me.
00:44:32.749 --> 00:44:40.369
So that's where I began which is at the very like basics here and I was determined
00:44:40.369 --> 00:44:46.029
to write this book because like you and your story which is so inspiring and
00:44:46.029 --> 00:44:47.589
has such grit and perseverance.
00:44:48.229 --> 00:44:54.409
And love I wanted to write my book just to inspire one person to say look if
00:44:54.409 --> 00:44:59.749
I can go through all of this and I have and I'm I'm still you know I'm not a
00:44:59.749 --> 00:45:03.649
perfect person but I I'm a loving person I try to help my brothers and sisters.
00:45:03.749 --> 00:45:06.129
I try to make a difference in the world.
00:45:06.249 --> 00:45:11.509
And you can use adversity to transcend it to make you a better person.
00:45:11.549 --> 00:45:16.969
And I really feel like, ironically, being poisoned was this paradoxical gift
00:45:16.969 --> 00:45:19.889
where I changed as a person.
00:45:20.009 --> 00:45:23.429
I couldn't push my body anymore the way I used to.
00:45:24.089 --> 00:45:26.989
I couldn't super achieve anymore, really.
00:45:26.989 --> 00:45:33.649
So really, I went from living in the phenomenal world, which is the materialistic
00:45:33.649 --> 00:45:36.669
transactional world, more into the noumenal world,
00:45:36.889 --> 00:45:43.309
which is more of the spiritual invisible world where what matters to me is being
00:45:43.309 --> 00:45:44.609
connected with other people.
00:45:44.609 --> 00:45:50.629
What matters to me is helping other people with depression or psychosis or loss
00:45:50.629 --> 00:45:54.909
to transcend those feelings into joy, harmony, and bliss.
00:45:55.069 --> 00:45:59.569
I found those things as a result of being poisoned. And I certainly didn't have
00:45:59.569 --> 00:46:01.849
those, not harmony and joy.
00:46:02.069 --> 00:46:06.449
I didn't really have those feelings before I was poisoned.
00:46:06.589 --> 00:46:12.609
What I had was super achieving, feeling worthy, and then it all very quickly dissolving.
00:46:13.466 --> 00:46:20.246
And I wrote my book to try to say, if you're suffering from mental illness, please get help.
00:46:20.266 --> 00:46:22.546
Please get help. There are people that care like me.
00:46:23.246 --> 00:46:27.226
Leave no rock unturned. Get help. There is a TED Talk.
00:46:27.466 --> 00:46:33.126
Aaron Stark has this TED Talk called I Was Almost a School Mass Shooter.
00:46:33.166 --> 00:46:38.946
And it talks about how he was bullied, ostracized. He was made fun of because
00:46:38.946 --> 00:46:39.966
he was overweight. weight.
00:46:40.026 --> 00:46:45.046
He had a family that constantly dislocated and he had to move from school to
00:46:45.046 --> 00:46:47.646
school to school. So he couldn't make friends if he wanted to.
00:46:47.826 --> 00:46:54.486
And his family didn't have the means to feed him well or to dress him in proper clothing.
00:46:55.126 --> 00:46:59.826
He felt bitter and enraged and angry as we all were.
00:47:00.206 --> 00:47:04.166
But then poor decision was planning to go to his high school and be a school
00:47:04.166 --> 00:47:07.346
shooter. He went next door to say goodbye to his neighbor.
00:47:07.506 --> 00:47:11.006
His neighbor looked in his eyes, saw something was really off,
00:47:11.226 --> 00:47:13.766
said, hey, something's not right here. Come in.
00:47:13.846 --> 00:47:16.306
I want to talk to you. Fed him food.
00:47:16.646 --> 00:47:19.886
And this is his TED talk, Aaron Stark.
00:47:20.066 --> 00:47:24.226
He said, because of that kindness, one simple act of kindness,
00:47:24.466 --> 00:47:29.466
loving kindness, he didn't go to school and wasn't a mass shooter.
00:47:29.466 --> 00:47:34.966
And this is what my book is about, how all of us in society are responsible
00:47:34.966 --> 00:47:39.086
for every mass shooting, for any gun violence.
00:47:39.266 --> 00:47:44.806
What we do or don't do has ramifications. If we worry about our personal safety,
00:47:44.866 --> 00:47:49.406
and if we see someone who's being ostracized, shot, and bullied,
00:47:49.566 --> 00:47:54.506
and don't reach out to that person, all you have to do is say, hi, how are you, smile,
00:47:55.006 --> 00:47:57.706
show some just human kindness.
00:47:57.706 --> 00:48:03.506
It doesn't have to be a lot that this can make the difference in someone's world
00:48:03.506 --> 00:48:06.686
from making a really poor impulsive decision.
00:48:07.446 --> 00:48:11.946
Yeah, absolutely. Remind us where we can find your book at.
00:48:12.026 --> 00:48:16.986
Where's the best place for us to send anybody interested and remind us of the title.
00:48:17.486 --> 00:48:20.726
Yeah. So the title is a mouthful. I tried to get it changed,
00:48:20.886 --> 00:48:23.606
but my academic publishers Rutledge wouldn't let me change it.
00:48:23.606 --> 00:48:26.246
But I'll say the whole title.
00:48:26.406 --> 00:48:32.706
But if you remember Desire for Destruction and my name, Nina Serfolio on Amazon, it comes right up.
00:48:32.826 --> 00:48:38.726
The name is Psychoanalytic and Spiritual Perspectives on Terrorism,
00:48:38.906 --> 00:48:40.626
Desire for Destruction.
00:48:41.286 --> 00:48:46.426
And if you remember Desire for Destruction, Nina Serfolio on Amazon, it comes right up.
00:48:46.686 --> 00:48:52.146
OK, OK, perfect. Well, I will be sure that a link to directly to your book on
00:48:52.146 --> 00:48:55.286
Amazon is left in the show notes for anybody interested.
00:48:56.335 --> 00:48:59.315
Thank you, Kevin. Yeah, of course, of course.
00:48:59.435 --> 00:49:04.055
And, you know, honestly, thank you so much for being here today,
00:49:04.195 --> 00:49:10.615
for sharing your story and all the absolute just craziness that has comprised
00:49:10.615 --> 00:49:13.155
your story. I mean, my goodness.
00:49:13.315 --> 00:49:17.155
I mean, I listen to you think of it and I'm like, this sounds like some type
00:49:17.155 --> 00:49:18.735
of diehard movie or something.
00:49:18.735 --> 00:49:29.615
But, you know, it's just so it's your amazing outlook on life and the way that you see people,
00:49:29.695 --> 00:49:33.915
the way that you see all the situation that makes you so amazing.
00:49:34.015 --> 00:49:36.215
And I just appreciate you being here.
00:49:36.395 --> 00:49:41.615
Well, thank you so much, Kevin. And I say right back at you because I'm inspired
00:49:41.615 --> 00:49:48.555
by your incredible grit, perseverance, beauty, humanity, and everyone can learn as well.
00:49:48.735 --> 00:49:55.495
To be inspired to overcome such incredible adversity that I can't even imagine, actually.
00:49:55.675 --> 00:50:00.255
Like you just, you astound me. Your beauty, your love, your kindness,
00:50:00.415 --> 00:50:02.135
what you're doing on your podcast.
00:50:02.555 --> 00:50:09.635
If we have one person today, I'm honored. People like you is what inspires me and keeps me going.
00:50:10.195 --> 00:50:16.995
Oh, well, thank you so much. That honestly, honestly means so much to me. coming from you.
00:50:17.115 --> 00:50:19.415
I appreciate that so much.
00:50:19.875 --> 00:50:24.035
Again, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Kevin. I hope you have a
00:50:24.035 --> 00:50:27.735
beautiful day. And it was my honor to spend my birthday with you.
00:50:28.095 --> 00:50:34.595
That's right. Absolutely. Yes. We all have to remember wishing you a happy birthday and my goodness.
00:50:34.655 --> 00:50:41.135
And for you listening today, my hope is as always that you have been entertained,
00:50:41.375 --> 00:50:44.015
but more so that you've been impacted.
00:50:44.475 --> 00:50:49.195
Something said today that will impact your life from this day forward.
00:50:49.535 --> 00:50:53.795
Remember, if you like today's episode, be sure to share it with a friend,
00:50:53.955 --> 00:50:58.695
spread the news of this incredible woman who we just got to hear her story.
00:50:59.215 --> 00:51:04.015
Always in the hope that it will leave an impact on your life.
00:51:04.255 --> 00:51:07.475
My name is Kevin Lowe, and this is Great Grace and Inspiration.
00:51:07.475 --> 00:51:09.295
Get out there and enjoy the day.