00:00:06 Sana: In a world that feels honestly listeners. Faster, louder. Sometimes really, really crazy and more uncertain than ever, what does what does it actually mean to live a spiritual life. Now, it's not the aesthetic version, listeners. The Instagram or the social media version are not the perfectly aesthetic, curated morning or beauty routine, but we are talking about the real, the messy, the human version in here, the one that has to survive traffic deadlines, health scares, FOMO, the days when simply getting out of bed, it just feels like enough. It's like we're going to war. Because the truth is, many people aren't searching for information anymore, but they are searching for steadiness. You, me, everyone is looking out for that steadiness, that stability, and for meaning that holds up when life doesn't go according to the plan.

00:01:16 Sana: Listeners, welcome back to another very, very interesting episode on the Mindful Living podcast. And I'm Sana as always. And today's guest, well, he understands that journey in a deeply personal way. Now listeners, meet Kevin Roth. He's a renowned dulcimer, a dulcimer artist, singer, author, and songwriter. He has recorded sixty five albums, won numerous awards and listen. It even sang the theme to the beloved PBS show Shining Time Station. But in twenty fifteen, everything shifted when Kevin was diagnosed with stage three melanoma and given only a few years to live. And in that moment, listeners success stopped mattering the way it used to. So the real question became for Kevin, how do you actually live fully when times suddenly feels fragile and Kevin chose to get busy living. And what followed was not just healing, a profound redefinition of happiness, spirituality, and what it means to truly be present in your own life. That's what mindfulness is, right? So with that, let's begin with this conversation. And Kevin, welcome to the Mindful Living. And I'm really, really honored to have you here with us.

00:02:45 Kevin Roth: Well, thanks.

00:02:45 Kevin Roth: For having me.

00:02:48 Sana: Oh, okay. Awesome. Um, Kevin. Um, okay. First of all, I think in fact, the topic itself, it can have different meanings in a spiritual spirituality. It's, it's often kind of, um, you know, considered, like connected with your faith or your religion, your background, uh, but time and time, you know, this is something I've also realized that there's definitely a difference in there. We're talking about soul care. I mean, there can be different backgrounds, different cultures or faith or religions. But then when you talk about living a spiritual life today, Kevin, in today's scenario, uh, minding that the day we are, we are recording, you know, the world is kind of in a very surprising, uh, state here. What does that actually look like in real, everyday human terms?

00:03:44 Kevin Roth: Well, I teach something I call practical spirituality because it's not a woo woo kind of, uh, spiritual existence that I live.

00:03:57 Speaker 6: Yeah.

00:03:58 Kevin Roth: Um, so the world, as you mentioned today is in craziness. The world's always been crazy and it will always be crazy. So you are not the world. You are you and Who you are is the ultimate question. Spiritually, are you son of this person or are you, uh, what they call consciousness or God, you know? So really, in this world, in this existence, we are spiritual beings having a human experience. So even though spirituality in quantum physics tells you that all of this doesn't really exist, we experience it. So how can we experience being a spiritual being inside a crazy world? So the Buddhists say, no mind, no problem. If you say, oh, I just, you know, shut your door, turn off your phone.

00:05:10 Speaker 6: Yeah.

00:05:10 Kevin Roth: Um, how I came into spirituality is a long story, but what really shifted me was a teacher from India named Ramana Maharshi.

00:05:22 Speaker 6: Okay.

00:05:22 Kevin Roth: Uh, there's many gurus, especially in India, uh, nizagara all these people. But, um, what I learned from Ramana Maharishi is to ask the question, who am I? And when you discover that you're really living in a dream. Then what matters, you know? So that's a that's a long answer. But I would add to it that in this life you need to know three things. The first thing is you need to know what your greatest asset is in life, and that's your health. So what does that mean? You need to keep yourself healthy mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. So mentally do things that are full of wisdom. Emotionally. Uh, again, keep your heart clear and, and do things that are emotionally supportive, physically exercise spiritually, have some sort of grounding practice every day, whether it's meditation or it's prayer, whatever it is for you go out into nature. So that's your number one asset because if you don't have your health, it doesn't matter how much money you have or how much fame you have. Life is pretty miserable. The second thing is you need clarity. You need to ask yourself, and I wrote about this in my book, Between the Notes, which is what that whole book is about. You need to ask yourself what really matters. Why does it matter and what are you going to do about it? And the third thing you need is some sort of spiritual root system to understand that, uh, what is reality and what's real doesn't come and go. It's always real. And the only thing that is always real is consciousness. Everything else is dependent on something else for its existence. So essentially, we're God, uh, and we're just, um, having this dream experience due to mind and ego, neither of which physically exists.

00:07:41 Speaker 6: HMM.

00:07:43 Sana: I mean, especially I loved, um, one sentence that you mentioned. You are not the world. You are you. I love that. Love that. Kevin.

00:07:53 Kevin Roth: Out of all that stuff, I said.

00:07:54 Kevin Roth: Only.

00:07:54 Kevin Roth: one. Only kidding you.

00:07:56 Speaker 6: No, no, that.

00:07:57 Sana: Sentence is going to stay in my mind for a very long time because sometimes we we completely, you know, give away our our power to our surroundings or the people around us, or the circumstances or, you know, whatever is externally in there. Even if we know that, you know, maybe somewhere down the line, it lies within us still, we kind of we get that adrenaline rush that, you know, I'm just making everyone happy or I'm just being successful. Yeah, having money or having ambition. I'm not discounting it. As you know, it's bad to have. But then at the cost of your health, your emotions, your mind, your spirit, that is something that you know, it needs to be discussed.

00:08:44 Kevin Roth: Yeah, absolutely.

00:08:47 Speaker 6: MM.

00:08:48 Sana: And, um, Kevin, um, you know, whatever you shared just now, this is something that you realized after the cancer diagnosis because, um, because you were having, you had, you were having a great musical, you know, successful career in there. So was it already like you were not feeling something like. You were not feeling aligned or. This is something that you realized after your diagnosis.

00:09:15 Kevin Roth: Well, I was born spiritual, so it's just in my nature as an artist to always be searching.

00:09:22 Speaker 6: Okay.

00:09:24 Kevin Roth: But, you know, sometimes you have to hit bottom to, uh, have an awakening, so to speak. So when you're told that you probably are going to be dead with a knee or and a half to two, that's really a spiritual wake up call. And, um, I happened to. Um, find, uh, Yogananda on a, um, in a movie one day after I had been diagnosed, which led me to, uh, search for what's Nonduality was self-realization. and I began to learn about Ramana Maharshi and Robert Wolf and okay, those were my teachers. I just knew it. As soon as I read what they were talking about and watched some videos, I just knew, ah, this is the truth. So I thought that fame and fortune would make me happy, and I achieved what I wanted to a certain degree, but it didn't make me happy. It stressed me out. And stress and inflammation are the two major causes of illness. So you have to eliminate as much of it as you can. the problem is the mind. So if I ask you, where is your mind? You probably would say somewhere in my brain or, you know, something like that. Yeah, but you can't dissect a brain and find something physical called a mind. It doesn't exist. The same thing with ego. If you said, well, you know, the ego is always a problem, I'd say, well, bring your ego to this discussion and we'll have a talk. You can't find something called an ego. So what is it? So it's consciousness. So because these desires arise and we believe in them, we get into trouble. So think of it like this. You have a movie screen that never changes. It's always the same screen no matter what movie's playing on it. Your life, your dream existence is a projection on the screen. So when the ship is going down in icy waters, the screen doesn't get wet. But you buy into the movie, you believe the movie. And that's what we do. We believe the the crap that happens in our life and we hold on to it. But it's not worth it because it passes. It's not real. So you have to wake up to what reality is. This is what I learned. I think the reason that I love being a teacher of this is because I teach from experience.

00:12:23 Sana: It's like, uh, you know, all these screens are playing around. It's like the simulation that you are in.

00:12:30 Kevin Roth: Well, it's not. Yeah. But it's not even really that because the truth is really the real reality is something called a a a a a, t a, which means that really nothing has ever come into existence. So this whole thing doesn't isn't even real. It's like living in the twilight zone, but you experience it. So once you know it's not real. You don't become so attached to it. So. But you have to live a practical life. You have to pay bills. You have.

00:13:03 Speaker 6: To.

00:13:04 Kevin Roth: Do whatever you need to do. So you choose the things that are going to help you, and you let go of the things that don't. Now, when you work with a coach, let's say a life spiritual coach like me, my job is to pull out of you in clarity, what you want and what you don't want, and then to show you the path towards what you want. But along the way, when you trip and you make mistakes, I say, okay, let's understand this. Let's look at what you did. Does it reflect where you want to go? Well no more. Well, yes. And then over a period of time, you get familiar. It's like lifting weights. You don't go into a gym and lift one hundred pound barbell at once. You know, you you go in and you, you know, you start very small. This is a slow drip process.

00:14:00 Speaker 6: Oh. Yeah.

00:14:04 Sana: And, and, um, I, I do believe that. And, and, you know, this is something that can actually, that actually makes a difference in there. Um, we always look for, um, quick fixes and that's kind of natural because when we are deep down in, in that, um, quote unquote kind of trench, uh, we are feeling that, you know, we are disconnected or we are misaligned. We just want to get out of it as soon as possible. So we look for something, which is a quick fix and you may see the results instantly, but then it's not sustainable. So I think that's what um, I also kind of believe in. I would also advocate that we have to start small. Um, and sometimes it's difficult to have that patience. Uh, you may get impatient because you're not seeing the results immediately. And then you get into that, uh, rabbit hole of, you know, judging yourself. Or maybe this is not working for me, or maybe I'm not the person I need for this. So that is why I think, you know, just as you gave the analogy of, you know, at the gym and the bubble, I think it's, it's always good to start small. And then of course, um, you need, you need guidance, um, someone who can show you that path or someone who can actually get you to the starting point. And then, and then it's your journey. You get to decide what you want or what you do not want.

00:15:41 Speaker 7: Yes. It's consistency. You need.

00:15:45 Kevin Roth: Consistency. And when you let go of Toxic. Well, I'll tell you what I did when I was living in Kansas and I was diagnosed. I said the only things that really mattered to me are my dog, my music and art. That's it. I don't want to live in Kansas. I want to live in California, which is very expensive. But I said, what do I have to lose if I have to figure out a way to live in Kansas? I can figure out a way to live in California. So I packed my bags, my boxes, and my apartment before I even had a place to move. And I set the intention that I was going to find what I needed within two months. I gave notice to my landlord and I envisioned what I wanted. And then I walked into it and when I. I got rid of toxic People. I focused on living like a bohemian here in California. Very simple life. And, uh, I just have a handful of friends. I have a dog, I have my music. But at one point in my life, I was in credit card debt. I was with crazy people, I was crazy, I was fat, I was unhealthy. And all of that changed because when you get a taste of living, uh, with a sense of purity and authenticity being who you are, you prefer it over all the craziness. I mean, why watch the news every day? You know, what's what's the point in that? I mean, here we live. I live in the United States. We have a ridiculously crazy president. He's nuts, but he won't be around forever, so I. You know, all my friends get very upset with him. Did you hear what this guy did? I say, who cares what he does? I'm gonna vote him out. And I don't want to stick my nose up any more than I need to. I don't even like looking at him. Most people don't here, so. But if you feed into the politics, you go crazy. It's all crazy. But if you don't look at it, you know where it's there. But if it's not in in front of your face, it's just in the background. That's a good place for it. Let it sit there.

00:18:24 Sana: I hope so so that, you know, we don't have to look at newsstands anymore. Goodness. I mean, I do not watch news, but these few days I was kind of forced to switch on mainstream media just because, you know.

00:18:40 Kevin Roth: I have an expression with my clients, I say don't step in it, Which means that if you're walking down the street and you see dog shit, you don't step in it, you walk around it. Same thing with things in life people, places and things. If you see them coming at you and you don't want them, walk around them. Don't step in it. But people are addicted to pain. They're addicted to feeling uncomfortable. You know, they're addicted to being people pleasers. And you don't need to be. There's no rules here, you know, except you need to be a decent person. But people keep going. People go into muddy waters to get clean. They stir the water to so that it appears deep. If you want to get clean, take a shower. Don't go into a muddy pond. But people like the mud.

00:19:31 Sana: I like that. That's kind of the irony in there. Yeah.

00:19:35 Speaker 8: It's just who we how we are.

00:19:37 Kevin Roth: Until we wake up.

00:19:38 Sana: Yeah, yeah. And before we wrap up, Kevin. Um, I just want to bring in a bit of, um, a different kind of perspective. Maybe, uh, some listeners, they might quietly be thinking, uh, there's a narrative in especially the spiritual spaces that, you know, if you're, if you shift your mindset enough life starts to flow more easily, kind of, you know, sometimes it can tend to go to something which is quote unquote, you know, toxic positivity, manifestation and all. But then many people, they do the inner work, but since still they are facing very real struggles. So in your experience, um, where does spirituality genuinely help and where does not magically fix things like not the magic wand?

00:20:30 Kevin Roth: It isn't a magic wand. Um, you know, I had someone ask me once, at what point did I become enlightened? And I said, I've never been enlightened. Who said I was enlightened. Who needs to be enlightened? I just need to have common sense and to know that there's something, whether it's God or whatever you want to call it. And that's running the show because quantum physics and spirituality tell me the same thing. So this is a slow drip process. You need to be kind to yourself. Don't be in a hurry. You're not. Where are you going? There's nowhere to go. So just find what you like. What resonates with you. Breathe. Be silent. And just every day. Read something spiritual. And try things that make you feel better rather than feel badly. If you're in a job you don't like, look for a different job. If you're in a lifestyle that you can't afford, downsize. There's nothing wrong with that. Less is more. But people, people get really tangled up and they need to know now. They need to fix it now. I'll tell you just really quickly, the biggest mistake that I made was saying, oh, I know all the spiritual stuff. People paying me, I teach it to them and yet I'm such an idiot. When will I wise up? When will I become. You know, you don't become anything. You. You're human. You make mistakes and you fix them. And that way it takes you off the hook.

00:22:05 Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah. And the most important.

00:22:07 Sana: Part that I mentioned is we make mistakes, but we have to fix them.

00:22:11 Speaker 9: Yeah. I think that's.

00:22:12 Sana: A very kind of a grounded realism that is refreshing. And, uh, Kevin, before we wrap up, if our listeners, they would like to connect with you personally, share their thoughts or opinions, what would be the easiest way?

00:22:28 Kevin Roth: Yeah, my website's the best way. That's Kevin Roth dot org.

00:22:34 Sana: Awesome. So listeners, as you all know, I'll have the website link mentioned. Connect with Kevin. Feel free to share your thoughts and your opinions with him and do follow the mindful living. And before we wrap this up, listeners, I hope that this conversation is giving you just maybe a one moment of pause or maybe self-introspection perspective, and we may not have all the answers. I mean, we don't, but because every week we sit down with people who are doing the real inner work behind the scenes of success, healing, and growth. So, Kevin, thank you so much. This was a really, really candid and straightforward conversation. Loved it. So thank you.

00:23:22 Speaker 7: Oh, thanks a lot of fun. Take care.

00:23:24 Sana: Yeah. And listeners, thank you so much for tuning in to the Mindful Living. Until next time. This is your host signing off. Thank you and take care.