Episode 58 — How Breast Thermography Amazingly Detects Early Inflammation Naturally

Today’s episode feels like opening another God-given tool for caring for our bodies with wisdom instead of fear. We’re talking about medical thermography—a way of reading the temperature of the skin to see where the body is working harder, healing, or calling for attention.

This isn’t new technology. People have used heat patterns to understand the body since ancient times—think clay warming on an injury. And in the 1950s, Dr. Lawson showed that heat differences could distinguish cancerous from non-cancerous tissue. In other words, long before we had fancy machines, God had already written signals into our skin.

If you’ve heard my episode on the candida diet, you know we talked about ATP—your body’s little energy workers—and how they rush to the places that need repair. That surge of energy and blood flow creates heat. Thermography can see that. It can even show how your lymphatic system is draining and whether lymphatic therapy is making a difference.

And here’s something most women never hear:
So much drains into the breast area—your mouth, sinuses, lymph pathways. Add dense breast tissue into the mix, and it’s no wonder so many women get called back for second-round mammograms and extra radiation.

Thermography offers a gentler, proactive piece of the puzzle. It can detect patterns before something becomes something.You don’t have to wait until you’re standing at a crossroads trying to decide whether to take a treatment—you can begin supporting your body early.

Now, thermography isn’t a stand-alone answer. It’s part of a whole-body, whole-person approach for women who want to stay ahead of their health instead of reacting to it.

A quick heads-up: our audio dips in and out a bit, and I’m so sorry about that. But Jenny is an absolute wealth of knowledge, and what she shares is worth leaning in for.

Be sure to check the show notes for how to get in touch with Leawood Thermography if you are in the Kansas City area or links to nationally recognized professional groups that can steer you in the right direction wherever you live.

Alright. This is Penny fromThBecoming Natural. And I am talking with my friend Jenny Bitar. Welcome to becoming National. I'm so glad to have you here. Thank you for having me, Penny. Jenny is a certified thermography technician, and I'm just going to get a little intro to Jenny, because we met when we were meeting with some minds of holistic thought. It was really fun, this group of women that got together, and I had no idea what thermography was. And I've done a lot of homeopathic things, and I'm willing to try anything that's out there within reason. And when she started telling me about thermography, I was very interested. the reason that I decided to try thermography was that many people use it as an alternative to their annual exams, to check their bodies, to make sure that, we don't have anything bad going on in our body. And I personally have, made all the mistakes. Like I said, I've done all the medicine, done all the surgeries, but I've also done 1,000,001 different radiological exams on my body. if anybody's going to die of radiology, it's going to be me. But I feel like when you know better, you do better. this was something that I was willing to try and just to see. You know, I'm always a skeptic just to say, what is what's this going to tell me about myself? And I have to admit, I was floored the first time I did it. And then we did a follow up a year later, which even further made me a huge believer. So we'll get into those details a little bit later, because I just want the audience to know what is thermography? Sure. For sure am I? And thank you for having me on. I too, when I first was introduced with thermography, I hadn't heard of it. And I'm 51 now and I wish I would have known about thermography in, you know, my early 30s. but like you said, know better, do better. So, what is and and I always like to say, what is medical thermography? medical thermography is a non-invasive, radiation free imaging tool that, assesses the physiological function, by detecting skin temperature variations. so it's reading the temperature of your skin in a very layman's term. we use a high tech infrared camera to do that. again, there's no there's no contact. So it's just. You in front of a camera, taking images, different, positions, taking different images of the body. and it's identifying with this advanced screening. It enables trained thermalogists to identify areas of inflammation, vascular changes and metabolic activity that may indicate underlying health concerns. Right. Very good. So when you get a thermography, when I let's start let's let's go a step backwards. What do we expect when we walk into your office. And we're going to elect to get a thermography exam. Well let's first of all throw me under the bus and say that the first time that I did this, there are rules that are important because you want to make sure that your body doesn't have heat going on in places that are not concerning. So number one rule that I broke was I wore a sports bra, and you're not supposed to wear a sports bra the day of. Correct. So there are a list of protocols that you need to follow leading up to your scan. and we provide you with that information all the way from, there are a couple, like if you have minor surgeries or cool sculpting or cupping things like that. It's, you know, you need to wait six weeks before you come in for a thermography. up to, like, sun exposure. You don't want to have a sunburn. Anything that's going to increase the temperature of your skin or your body, you don't want to. There's a time where you don't want to be working out. You don't want to be wearing a bra. no lotions, things like that. No heated seats, no heated seats, things like that. And granted, it's, it's easy to mistake that. So we are very hopefully was welcoming. And, you know, I sent you on your way and allowed you to come back. Right. Well, and it makes sense, like when you're going down that list, you're like, oh my gosh, all these things. I mean, it's really for our benefit. You don't want to get a false positive because something is showing up hot in your body. That's unnecessary. Right. Not meant. Yes. I mean, you're investing your your time and your money, your health. And so we want you to have us accurate scan possible. Right. Okay. So if you follow the rules like I did the second time. Yes, yes. So when you come in and you followed your protocols and we do, we make sure we, we we talk about that. I had a friend come in and so I knew them. And so I went to give her a hug and she's like, oh, I just worked out. Don't hug me. don't worry if I don't know you. I will not attack you with a hug. But so I was like, oh, okay, well, can't work out before, so. Saying that you came in and you followed all of your protocols. then the way you come into the room with the camera and how I like to do is we obviously we're just going to have a conversation and talk about your intake form. I've given a history and filled out your intake form. I go through and I show you the positions that we're going. I'm going to be talking you through. But the reason I do that is because everything happens behind a curtain. So you have your utmost privacy because the exam is done. without clothing, because the thermography camera cannot see through clothing or hair. so I show you the positions. I shut the show. There's a lot of positions, by the way, and Jenny has them all memorized. Well, and you don't have to. You as as the client, do not have to memorize them. I talk you through them. We're a great it's a great teamwork thing. but then as when I shut the curtain, you get, you get undressed, and then there is a 15 minute acclimation period. I say, that's the that's the most tedious part of the entire exam. But it's important because your body needs to acclimate with the room, meaning your body needs to come in to temperature range of the room so that we don't have a discrepancy and we're getting an accurate scan. During that 15 minutes, we're going over your intake form more or we're just talking. I find that that, helps people pass the time, and then we go ahead and we take those images, the images themselves, whether you do the different types of scans, which I'm sure we'll probably talk about later. take anywhere from 5 to 15. So all in all, it's about a 30 minute appointment. So when you take the images, it's it looks like a camera. It's I mean, it's not this huge funky machine or anything you begin inside of like, it's just. No, it's just a small camera. It's very quiet. And I'm, I'm controlling it from behind the curtain. with with my camera. and then we take the images and then, I, we are a member. We would thermography as a member of breast thermography international. So I take your images, and then I send them off, to breast thermography or international. And then they go through three tiers of review with homologous so three levels of interpretation ensuring that you, we have precise readings. And then they put together a comprehensive report that gets sent back to us and to you. You are then given a access to a what we call our your client portal, a patient portal where you can access your report, and then there is a 15 minute consultation afterwards to go over that report, because that's very important. You're going to you're going to get these images that are in color and in an inverse grayscale aka black and white, and then you're going to have all this things and you're going to be like, what does this mean? And so having that follow up to go over the report I think is really crucial. And that's one of the reasons why I know being a member of Breast survivor for the international, we we do that, do it that way. And very important to have a credible source like that, that that you're linked to. Because I'm sure that not all thermography is the same as the thermography exam like those different and want to make sure you're getting a quality exam. Exactly. Not all equipment is the same. Not all. and just as we talked about all the protocols we make, there is also a room needs to be temperature. Like you can't have variations in temperature. You there's a lot of things. And so we are very particular about that. Our camera goes away once a year for calibration. and then we also act as member. As a member of BTI. we are all certified through the Professional Academy of Clinical Thermography. and so and that's an annual like, I take, you know, continuing education every year to keep that certification. Awesome. So let's just talk first about safety. Is this safe, I'm assuming? Sure. Yes. So as we kind of mentioned it is non-invasive meaning it's not it doesn't touch your body at all when you're having your screening. It's radiation free. So there's no radiation and it's no compression. which obviously, since it's no contact, no compression, it is safe. I mean, it is safe for children, you know, to do all the way up until you know any age and safe for it's safe for pregnant moms. It's safe for nursing moms. There's really no contraindication. As long as you have. And I've had people with kind of mobility issues and we can work around that with with the positioning. Oh yeah. Totally. I can see that. That's actually a great benefit I never thought about because your room is spacious and yeah, I see that a lot. I actually always feel like I'm like a skeleton behind the screen, like dancing. And you're like, yeah, but like, can she see me like. Yeah. So. And a lot of people have said when I'm showing them the positions, they're like, oh, like a spray tan. And I don't, I don't know that world. So I was like, yeah, okay. Perfect. Yes. You're right. Like a spray tan. So all right. So why why would one why would someone choose to do thermography. That is a great question. I think there are a couple of different reasons. One, you have those people that just really want to be very proactive on their health, and they want to see how their body is currently functioning. Like I said, this is physiological. It's not an anatomical, tool. So it's not going to meaning it's not going to show structures. We're not going to see your stomach. We're not going to see your heart. We're not going to see structures. We're not going to see actual tumors. it's physiological. So we're going to see how the body is currently functioning from that standpoint. So we can see areas that are working harder. So kind of from that perspective the the infrared camera detects and measures heat radiation. So get a little technical but not too technical emitted by the body. And these sensors analyze infrared emissions and translate them into what we call temperature readings. That data is displayed in a digital thermal map. So in your report, when you see those color images, that is known as kind of the color spectrum and thermal. Just use this to access assess physiological function. So high areas appear red and white and that is indicating increased vascular activity. Or how I like to say layman. Layman terms your body is working harder than it should. the cool areas appear magenta and black and they're showing, reduced circulation or your body's not functioning as well as it should. It's under functioning versus over functioning. And then by evaluating these patterns, medical thermography can help identify areas that may require further clinical evaluation. Like I said, thermography is not going to like you're not going to come in for a thermography and walk out with like a diagnosis or say you're going to walk out with you've got a lot you've got a lot of inflammation. Looks like you've gotten lymphatic stagnation stagnation. It looks like there is some vascular patterns that concern us. it looks like there's areas of concern. and I don't know if we're going to dive more into kind of just the breast specific area later, but those then would be like, okay, there's a recommendation for to do this. Whether that's going on for an ultrasound, because you really want to make sure that that's not something more concerning, or it's just like, hey, you've got a lot of like physiological stuff going on. We want to quote unquote, clear that out. So here are some active steps you can take. So you said red and white are overactive and magenta and black are underactive, which means we need to tend both of those. So what's the ideal colors. Yeah. And I mean obviously like in the middle there is green I think, you know, you're gonna and nobody comes in with just a perfectly green body. Like I've never seen that. Our body is like always, you know, functioning whether we have an acute something going on or we have more chronic something. but kind of like that green area, yellow we're starting to look at or like a orangey color, like we're starting to look. But that's like, what I love is one of the great benefits of thermography, which there are many, is that you are able to catch these early. Like a lot of times people come in, just jumping. Let's talk about our, nine times out of ten, people show some sort of activity in their mouth area. And they're like, well, I just want to do that. Or like, I'm into the dentist. Everything's fine. A lot of times that's subclinical and your dentist isn't going to see that either. But things like that, whether it's just, lymphatic lymphatic stagnation or you've got like subclinical, like you have an infection, maybe you had dental work, you know, years ago and you've got some sort of cavitation, all of that thing. I don't want to get into the weeds, but all of those things left untreated, just speaking of the mouth, drain down into your breast. And that's one of the things when we talk about breast health, getting just doing a thermography of the breast always isn't it always isn't, isn't necessarily the best picture because yes, you're checking your breast area. But as you talk about in your podcast all the time, our bodies are so connected, right. Like one area and isn't just an island. So it's great to kind of at least we always recommend at least one time do at least a full body or what we call our kind of torso wellness scan, so that you can kind of see how your whole body is functioning, not just focusing on. So one thing that I thought was really interesting is I gave it a shot. I did it the first time. I thought it was really cool. Then what the first time? when we looked at it and we had the analysis, there's I've had so much done to my body that I forget to report a lot of things. And what was so amazing to me is that anything that I forgot to report, he was like, oh, what do we have going on over here? Like, you can see the things I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot to tell you, I have da da da da da da da. I mean, it was amazing and really my huge issue that I'm working on that everybody on my podcast knows I'm really working on trying to heal my thyroid and get rid of endocrine blockers and get rid of all the things in my body that could contribute because my thyroid is glowing bright red. Right. So what I thought was so interesting was so I had this first time and like you said, some people may come and say, okay, I did it, my body's fine. Well then I had my 12 month follow up and we did it. And it was remarkable with very few changes that I've made. You know, I say on my podcast, I've been trying to take out and do I do lymphatic drainage, I do red light sauna. I do, you know, I do lots of little things, but I've done nothing major. How much improvement I had in my body colors. They went from all this red everywhere to improvement. So I think just to encourage people who are even interested in this, just getting that second follow up is huge. Because you said a comment before, and I'm going to make you say it again because you articulated it best, but just how you can see if what you're doing is work. How did you say that? Yeah. I mean, one of I again like what the beautiful thing is like there's different reasons to do thermography. And one is you've got let's say that you're going and come in and you've just got a ton of lymphatic stagnation. And, and then you start addressing that, whether that be with manual lymphatic drainage or you go see a, you know, a licensed practice practitioner, those things, all of those things, it's it's great to come back and see are the things I'm doing working. And you can see that in real time. I always like to say like especially we recommend it to especially like six months for a breast because we want to really see breast is a little bit different than everywhere else because we're also looking at vascular patterns there, and we're looking at symmetry or asymmetry in the different breasts. And so coming in at six months, you really building a solid baseline. Because the one of the beauties of thermography, which I keep talking about, all the different beauties, is that you can catch things earlier. I mean, there are studies out there. So published studies that breast thermography can catch things 8 to 10 years before it would structurally show up on a different diagnostic. Unbelievable. And so my goal isn't like I think, you know, just speaking for myself, I used to go in and do these other tests and I'd have such nervousness and I'd go in and I was just like holding my breath, hoping that they're like, okay, we didn't find anything. You're good to go. But I gained nothing beyond that. I just could breathe. And then I would go back in 12 months and do the whole process. What I love about this, and looking at it from a physiological perspective is that our bodies are functioning like because of, you know, like so everybody's body is functioning. How is it functioning? Let's let's dig deeper. Let's go back like, you know, and see. And then with that information, you can take active steps to change the trajectory of your health. And I love what you said because I think we can easily fill into that. It has to be some grandiose thing that we have to make major changes and that and that involves it. That's hard. It's hard because we're humans. It's hard because of all of those things. It's also hard because it's just hard. And so sometimes we minimize that. Making small changes is huge over time. And so I was just speaking with a client today and we were talking about her scan, and we were talking about things she can do. And everyone always asked me, well, how often should I do that? Once I give them a recommendation? And my favorite response back is like, well, how often are you doing it now? And I'll answer, I'm like, okay, we'll do it more than that. And then do all these other little things more than you were doing them. And over time you'll see the benefit, right? So you've touched on this and I'm just going to bring it back around for the applications. So I went in just to get a baseline, which I would encourage everybody to get a baseline, because it was really remarkable. And then to be able to measure my changes, just like you said. But other applications, you're talking about your breast health. How how does it benefit people that are doing it for breast health? Yes like I. So it is. It is great. Like I mentioned because you can detect things earlier on. it is also beneficial because this is one of my favorite things about, about what I do is when my clients come back and that they've seen the fruits of their labor of making changes in their lifestyle. and then we see improvement because my goal is we catch things before they become disease. Right. You're doing this proactively before they become an issue. another thing is a lot of women have dense breasts and other diagnostic tools that makes it more challenging to see because they just show a Zoi cloud. And so with this, because it's physiological and we're measuring temperature, you can see abnormalities or issues, vascular pretty, patterns and heat patterns that could be considered, even up to obviously detecting, or helping dying be a tool to help diagnose, breast cancer and that being, If we see something suspicious and you track it over time and or this is an adjunct to then going on and whatever, whatever other diagnostic tool you and your health care professional you know, recommend. A lot of times people will be able to take in their thermography and get an ultrasound because they have exactly where they want to have them check and make sure that that's not anything that they need to be concerned with. So that's the question is so what's the protocol? So if you found something anywhere on your body that was abnormal that you thought was concerning, that was consistent because, wow, I didn't know seven years, I mean years ahead of time. Right. So it's not this emergency moment. Like sometimes we hear if you find something, what's the protocol for next steps for a patient? If you find a spot that is concerning you send them to their practitioner. Do I guess it similarly on my words a little bit? Maybe it has to do with how the patient prefers to treat themselves as well. If I'm going to take a homeopathic route or adjust their diet or address changes like what's your. Standard way that you send your patient out of the office if you have something. I think that depends right on all those things. It depends on how they came to us. A lot of people come to us through their through their doctor, right? Whether it's their PCP or their functional doctor or their chiropractor or whoever is, you know, who they may be already working professional. So it's just a matter of providing them with the information and, you know, providing their health care professional with it. we have people ask us for, you know, recommendations for health care providers. And so it can be it could be that, when it comes to I mean, I have practitioners that I refer, my patients to all the time. and it depends, like you said, what they, what they want. we don't claim to be a stand alone for anything. I don't believe any diagnostic tool is a standalone. I think it's a piece of the puzzle. I think it's a very powerful and important piece of a puzzle, especially for people who want to be proactive with their health and want to change the trajectory of things because it just gives you really valuable information versus, nope, we don't find anything or yes, we found something. so I'm not sure if I totally answer that question, but I think it like you said, it's dependent on what somebody is open or wanting to do. Yeah, no, I love it. And I love that doctors are actually referring people to you because it's just that they find value in it. Which before we got on, this is my favorite question to ask. But I always wonder, how did we discover this and how did it begin? And you had some great history to thermography I want you to touch on, if you don't mind. Yeah, for sure. I mean, because I was like, I'd never heard of it. So, you know, and I'm kind of holistic minded. And so I was like, well, what is this? And so I was kind of disappointed in myself that I had heard of it or, or maybe I had heard it in passing, but I never did it. And deeper dive to, to educate myself. But, Thermography and I'm using quotes. You can see me, but early is 4 60 BC. Hippocrates used mud or clay to detect warmer areas of of the human body to indicate disease. So that's very early on. And then there's a whole like timeline of, thermography and how it evolved. But the beginning of, medical thermography is in around 1956, Doctor Robert Lawson was the pioneer of medical thermography. and he was using it to differentiate cancerous from non-cancerous tissues. and so that earned him kind of the doctor or, I mean, I'm sorry, the father of medical thermography. and there was a lot going on in the 70s and 80s with thermography, a lot too, in, the Soviet Union and actually Doctor Who, spent a lot of time with, breast Thermography International. He recently passed away, but, I kind of would call him, like, my own thing. Like, he just was so into bringing medical thermography to where it is today. And then also, what was one of the reasons? A really important reason of joining, you know, decided to join BTI when, when we were looking at what thermography route to go. which one to partner with? but it's kind of interesting if it if it's been around so long. What happened? Right. And, in the 80s is kind of when, mammography became kind of the gold standard. And so I think it kind of pushed out other diagnostic, options, including thermography. And then today it's making a comeback. But, it, it's and I don't know, I can only speak for myself when, when I've said that I, I do thermography or that it's, it's, met with a lot of skepticism, especially in the conventional world. and I think just because more holistic people have embraced it now for various reasons. That just people are like in, in the conventional world, don't know a lot about it. And then just kind of like if you're over here holistic, you're kind of like, oh, then it must be something we we're not not credible. But it's got years of research. There's so many studies on it that that's where I always encourage people to do your own research. even if I could, I wouldn't tell somebody what to do with their bodies. I believe in informed consent and doing what is right for you. but I just I think that this can fit in with. I don't see who thermography can't help whether you are going and getting annual mammograms and doing all of those things, or you're way over here and don't do any of those things. It has a place because it is focusing on early, early, early detection. It's also for any age. So if I could do it all over again, I would have started getting that at least at 30. I have a daughter and when she turns 20, I say she'll be getting the mammography because how cool is it that she'll be able to have a baseline at the age of 20? So we'll be able to see changes and we'll be able to say, oh, wow. Like when she was 20, mom, one of my favorite cases, we had a 24 year old woman come in and her just she was just so, so had had so much lymphatic stasis and so much. And she was on a trajectory that in 20, 30 years, it would have become something. And six months later with doing the simple things that we kind of talk about. Nothing that was earth shattering. The life had, like she had to change her life, for she completely changed the trajectory of her breast health. And those are the things that excite me. And we have stories of that all in different parts of the body with our clients. Well, I can't hurt you. There's nothing that's damaging about it. But I think that's the common thread, which, you know, we're discovering. And I always kind of just whenever I start something, I'm like, well, it turns out, you know, this was actually been been used since before the dawn of time, and it's been suppressed because different things shifted in our medical world. And unfortunately, so many things are dictated by if your insurance will pay for it or if you know who blesses it or who encourages it. And so things get shoved under the rug that it shouldn't. And I think that's what leaves me hopeful. And by the way, I was one of those skeptics. I thought all of this was just hippy crazy. Whatever. I was too sick. I needed more help. I needed bigger guns, whatever. But I think that as more people understand and the holistic people aren't thought of as being hippies or, not having people tend to think that these things aren't scientifically proven, but they are. And when people realize that there is signs and there is evidence, and what I say is science is very important, but results are more important. So when people start seeing the results and they start seeing that this is actually very helpful, I think that the world is opening their eyes to embracing things like this more and so much better for your body than going in and having radiology. And and when you speak to breasts, just like the discomfort associated with getting yourself squished into a machine and manhandled, is that the word I mean, whatever or woman handle it. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. All I mean all of that. And there we could go so much deeper with so much. But hopefully this is just like a really nice, like, what is it just because I feel like I there's no one that it could not benefit? We haven't really talked, but like I don't see a ton of men. I see men that are more open minded to that or really who I see, or men that their wives are like, you're doing this. but it's such a great tool for just anything. We didn't talk, huge in depth. You know what kind of like you talked a little bit about the thyroid, which I love that. because one of the things with thyroid is it'll be we've I have many clients who it's just flaming red on their scan and they're well, I just had bloodwork done and it was all fine. It doesn't mean your thyroid is broken. It means your thyroid is working harder than it should. And over time, if it will, you know the trajectory. Your on is it it will stop working. So I love it from that perspective because we're catching things before. And so it's just awareness because sometimes we get bloodwork or we get different tests and we're like, oh, well, they said I was fine. But this is kind of peeling back more layers to see, okay, you're fine, but are you are you optimal? Well, and I would be completely remiss not to say this, that I've done a podcast about my thyroid and about taking iodine, and you are the reason that I did this. So if you've been listening long enough, Jenny, they'd put, put a little patch of iodine. It's a little patch of iodine on my skin. And they were like, this should be the same color. Betadine. It was yellow and it should be the same color in 48 hours. And I took a picture like four hours later and it was completely gone. And while it's a very rudimentary procedure, yes, it indicated your body is starving for iodine like it drank it up. And so that was my first encouragement that maybe it's not my thyroid that's not working. It's actually deficient in iodine because that's our powerhouse. And ever since then I have been able to shift my focus and then take those iodine supplements. And it's changed my life. Well, that came from thermography. Well that's awesome. And then iodine is iodine is also really important in breast health. I mean, there's so many things that I think, breast health is underserved in our society because we talk about, we're coming up. It's, you know, we're we're filming this. It's right before, you know, breast cancer Awareness Month, I prefer to call it breast health awareness. because there are so many things we as women can do. And maybe we should do a podcast on that, because there are so many things we can do proactively to focus on our breast health. And it's just not talked about. and it's just really, for lack of a better word, it's just it's a shame, right? Well, and this just proves that there's instead of waiting until you're sick, instead of waiting until you have that bad exam, instead of waiting to treat. This gives you, as you've said this whole time, this gives you the tools, one tool, to focus on. How can we change the trajectory before it becomes a full blown crazy panic? We've got to take care of this in the moment kind of situation. And even for those people that do have pain, it can show you is is where you feel pain. Really the source? it brings to mind when we had. I had a client come in and he was referred, from somebody who had been in for thermography, and she was he's just go do it because he had injections in his back all the time. He had that pain and they weren't working. And so, he came in, we did thermography. he did a full body thermography. I see I had her focusing on, on his spine and he was like, well, I, I had an injection in my L4 and it didn't work. And you know, we well no wonder because it really wasn't your L4 that was was the source of the problem. It was his l 2 or 3. so just even those things, it's, who is it for? It's for lymphatic congestion, nervous system disorders, abdominal inflammation, vascular system analysis, neuromuscular disorders, muscular disorders, vascular screenings. I mean, anything that would produce inflammation in the body. it can be a good tool to help with. Diagnosis, and with just being more cognizant of what's going on in your body. And I'm going to close on that and that when I came and I saw the improvement after one year in my lymphatics, y'all actually said, you need to take this because y'all work with my friend Aubrey Hendershot Yes. Like, you need to take these pictures and give them to her to show up before and after. I'm sure how much my lymphatic drainage had improved from when I started to then. And it's not like I go every day to have lymphatic drainage. But I did it consistently. She taught me and I was saying she teaches you how to do it at home. Just amazing how all these little pieces fit together. yeah, how if anybody wants to get a hold of you, what is the best way to get off? Sure. So they can reach me at Leawood thermography. dot com and or it's probably just like I. So we, I do have an Instagram. I always forget I am not a good at social media. I'm trying to be. I aspire to be, but I'm not. but we are on Instagram at Leo Thermography as well. And then you can just you can call you can call me at (913) 717-8761 if you're I'm like a hotline 07I love it, I love it. Thank you so much for all that information. And and in the show notes, we'll read some links that you talked about, just informing people out the validity of the what was it, the thermography, the breast thermography was the the foundation. Oh, yes. Breast thermography. International? Yes. Yes. And then we're a member of pact. Yes. So thank you so much. Is there anything that I missed that is important to cover? I can't think of anything. Thank you so much. I love what you're doing, and I just love how you're shedding light on, alternatives, but also adjuncts. Right. Like, I don't think we have to live on an island. You can. You can do thermography and do other things. You can do other things and do thermography. I don't think it's a oh, you have to do one thing and you means you can't do another. Right. Well, and I think we definitely need a part two to follow up with some more of your I love your patient stories that hearing those patient stories is some of the best, results. You know, you don't get that scientific study but you get to hear how people live their lives. Well, and this is why I do it. I mean, I'm blessed with the most amazing patients that come in, and just helping them walk. Having a little piece of their health journey is humbling. And I'm just I'm so thankful to be a little piece of of their journey. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Make sure you look up Jennie Bitar and Leawood Thermography and learn a little bit more about thermography and how it can be a very, very important tool in helping us in long term health, for sure. Thank you. Penny. You're welcome. Thank you.