Saving money has become possible again. If it wasn't for Bitcoin, we would be spending the money as it comes in because of that lingering feel that if you don't spend it now, it will be worth less in the future.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to Orange Hatter. Julia. Welcome to Orange Hatter. I'm so excited to have you on the show. And I can't wait to dive into your Bitcoin story. Would you start by telling us a little bit about yourself?

Sure. first of all, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to meet you and to be here. And let's hope that we can inspire some other people or women to go a little bit further towards Bitcoin world. Hey, so what do you want to know about me, my background? So I was born in Germany. Thank you. Uh, 1970s. And that seems like a awfully long time ago. And then when I was, uh, about 20, I settled over to Portugal. where I live since then. So I've been here a long time and my whole adult life is in Portugal. Now I am completely settled in. I've got a Portuguese husband, two children, and I have no intentions of leaving this place again. So I really, really enjoy being here. Very little connections to Germany, but my close family, my parents and my brother, they did settle over to Portugal after me as well. So that's very nice having them here. Um, and quite close by. My parents are literally five minutes down the road and my brother's half an hour drive. So that's excellent. And, yeah, I would say the red line of my life seems to be horses. Um, so I've always been a horse fanatic since I was a small child and, That's definitely not a part of the family because my family, they come from Berlin, where I was born as well. Um, so I was always a horse fanatic and then started riding lessons and, uh, got my own horse when I was 13. And. The whole, all the way through settling to Portugal, I moved here with the horse. I've always done horse jobs until really 10 years ago when I got pregnant with my first child. It kind of came to an end because also the job where I was working at the place was falling apart a bit. And, you know, it was, it felt like a natural and to the whole chapter of horses, basically. And I decided to completely focus my life on family and homesteading and raising the children by now I've got two. And so I kind of moved the animal side of my life away from horses, more towards goats, dairy goats, and, and. chickens and pigs and, you know, that side of farming, raising animals mostly. Um, and, but recently my children have both decided that they've got the horse buck too, and they have started taking riding lessons in a very nice local school here and I'm drawn back into this world and I'm now thinking of probably going back professionally as well. So, but that's, that's very early days. So I don't really know yet if and how, but It's there. The idea is there. Um, I did have other jobs in between. I worked in a bakery and I was, I am a yoga teacher, even though I'm not practicing at the moment or not teaching at the moment. And you know, the young people's jobs like waitressing and stuff. so I've done many things, but like I said, the horses are the red line. yeah. So here we are in the year 2023.

I love that background just because I'm always fascinated by horses. So I would love to ask you a few more questions about that side of your life. So what did you do with horses that brought you to Portugal?

It was simply, I mean, I was 19. So it was simply the, the thing when 19 year olds are not skilled in many things. So I, you know, applying for jobs is hard, but I was skilled with horses. So I applied for horse jobs and that's how I came over, because there was work available. So yeah, that's a skill question.

So after you moved to Portugal and you can continue to work with horses, were you a trainer? Were you competing? What were you doing?

So competing, I was in Germany in my teenage years. I, I started off being a classic English rider in the school and then it was in the 80s, 90s, that the first Western riding wave came from the United States. And I was there with somebody who had picked it up and created his riding school and riding stable, but in the Western style. And so this is where I competed, uh, in, in my younger years. And, and then I came to Portugal and was mostly tracking, uh, Out in the countryside many times with tourists, obviously, because it's very pretty and it's a great way to enjoy this beautiful scenery here. So yeah, and then, and then I got my other big job was a yard management job, which is the one that eventually fell apart. And there we were focusing on classic dressage. I had a trainer there and she taught us a lot. and now it's the, for me, the ideal, I really, I think it's a little bit of a mixture of Western and dressage. So I think the working horse equitation kind of stuff is where I feel probably most comfortable at.

I love that. I live in Kentucky the Kentucky Derby takes place here and there's just a lot of horses. I live on a street with eight houses and we first moved in three out of the eight horses in their yard and my daughter just started taking horseback riding lessons. And she's trying out for the vault team in college. So I mean, we just we love horses. So I love that aspect. so what was it like moving from Germany to Portugal?

People now or ever since have always said to me, Oh, you were so brave. I'm like, no, I wasn't really brave. It's more on the side of stupid because you don't really know what you're doing. Uh, and really the idea was to only stay. Three months and then go to another country and work there for three months. The initial idea was to travel the world by doing horse jobs, but as it happened, um, and as it happened, Portugal was the one that was free immediately. So I went to Portugal first. It was not a decision that I planned on or thought a lot about. In fact, when I got the replies from the people saying you can come and work, the first thing I did, I was, I checked on the map where Portugal was, is how, how prepared you are at this age. Um, and then it was really not the idea to stay, but then life happens. And, um, one thing led to the next. And here I am, 25 years later or whatever.

Well, you know, I think I feel like Young people being ignorant is also a blessing. Now. I feel like we know maybe too much So I want to ask you about your yoga background as well because I'm fascinated by that aspect and actually learning some yoga breathing exercises Just this week. My husband and I were talking about that. So tell us how you got into yoga from your horse work

Hmm. Um, how did I. end up with the yoga idea. Maybe it was, you know, honestly, I can't remember, um, maybe it was even because of the riding because, or maybe it was more of a spiritual idea at the time. I really don't remember what was the trigger to get me to, to do yoga, but I started it off. I think what it was, if I remember clearly, a friend of mine said, I'm going to yoga every week. And I was like, okay. I'll try it. And I, and I stepped into this class and I physically fit obviously from working outside all my life. And there was this 50 year old woman and she, she made us do these things and I couldn't do them. And she was just like at ease with her body in a way that I just couldn't comprehend much and that kicked me, huh? Um, I thought, okay. I think I've got some work to do here. I think this is what it was, yes. When I think back. And then I, uh, obviously, uh, by understanding your body, you also discover that it really helps along your riding practice. And then I did for a while, specialized yoga, equestrian yoga. And I'm thinking now of offering that at the local stables, which, you know, it's, it's yoga, but it specializes in the body parts that you need for riding.

That is so cool because my daughter who's crazy about horses, she also trained as a yoga teacher and she's in college right now and she's trying to figure out what to do with her life. So I'm going to have to tell her about what you're doing. That's so cool. I don't have a lot of experience with horses, but I've seen horse shows and I hear people talking about how horses are very, very intuitive to how you feel. Do you feel that, maybe the yoga training also in your connection with the horse that you're working

I think, I think it helps in connection to yourself. I mean, yes, horses are great therapy animals. Um, yes, they have this special emotional, I don't know if it's bond, but they, they, they can really, through their presence, they can really help people come to terms with themselves. the breathing helps a lot. Obviously it helps with everything, hey? I'm not sure.

okay. So let's, let's jump into what you're doing now because you're working more with, homestead animals. Right. Tell us about that transition. What was that like?

So, that started, so, um, already in my early twenties, I, Had great interest in the connection between health and food. Huh? That's always been something that I was fascinated about because the quote, you are what you eat is really, it always rang true to me and really resonated with me. So, uh, I was a vegetarian for many years in my twenties. You know, that seems to be the first go to when people start thinking about healthy food. And then that didn't really. I mean, that was good, but it was unsustainable. If you want to go traveling, you just can't, you know, you want to be. Truly open minded and you can't just walk into people's homes who offering you some place to stay and then say, Oh, no, but I don't eat that if they want to offer you food. I think that's rude, personally. And so there the journey started there. And then I became aware of the Western A Price Foundation, the American Foundation may have heard about through another horse woman actually who I'm still in touch with it was probably Oh yeah, I did a little bit. Monty Roberts training together with her many, many years ago. And she said, you would really like. Western a price and she talked a little bit about it and something sparked interest and I went into this thing. And since then I'm chapter leader for the Western a price foundation here in Portugal South. And so there came the whole chapter of traditional foods. And with it came the realization that what you can get in the supermarket is really suboptimal. And so I thought, okay, so I want good food. So I have to do it myself. There we go. So I started and it really, came more pronounced when I thought about getting pregnant and having children. I really wanted my children to have raw milk and fresh eggs. And then eventually also the meat. And so I started keeping chickens first, obviously, and then that was still with the horses, intermingled, and then I kind of stopped the horses, but I replaced them with goats. And then I got into the swing of things of having my little homestead running and eventually also got pigs on the go, so yeah, it's very, very satisfying, huh, to be able to raise your own food. Especially animal foods.

It's a lot of work though. I mean, I tried some of those things and failed miserably. Let's talk about, the first time you heard about Bitcoin.

Yeah. So from it really, the connection was again, funny enough through the, the food, huh? Because COVID started and everything went upside down. and strangely enough, I remember quite vividly that on New Year's Eve, 2000, 2001, Somebody asked me, what's your New Year's Eve, resolution. And I said, Oh, I think I said, I want to learn about Bitcoin and, uh, one, uh, and also the, the ice bath thing from Wim Hof. So this is the two things I really wanted to get into. and then. A month later a friend gives me an email and says, Oh look, we've got, they're vegan, Uh, we've got somebody visiting here and he's a carnivore and he wants to meet you. Because, oh yes, I remember at the time I was full on carnivore. So I've come all the way from vegetarian to traditional. And then what happened is I learned about Jordan Peterson and how the carnivore diet really, really turned around his health and his daughter's health to a massive degree. And I got curious again, huh? It's curiosity. And pulls me into these things. And. I listened to him and I thought, dang, I'm going to try this because I'm not unhealthy, but I really want to know it's so counterintuitive. I really want to try. And so I went on to this carnivore journey for a few months of taking out plants completely. And I never felt better. Hey, it's a mind blowing what It does to you this resetting. So yes, yes to carnivore. Anyway, she said, here's this carnivore. He wants to meet you. And so I was like, send him over. Um, so he rocked up, uh, the doorstep and was wearing a Bitcoin t shirt. And I was like, Hey, this is so interesting. I'd really like to know more about Bitcoin. As it turns out, he's a proper. Um, and really, really, you know, opened the door to this world. So because of him, I was incredibly lucky not to have to wade through all this shit coin casino stuff going on. So I went straight to the top, straight to the best educators. And since then, really, I'm, you know, going down that rabbit hole. It continues to be very fascinating. So, yeah.

I think it's so cool that, that you have, uh, looked into Wim Hof because I tried his breathing technique for a while. And the Jordan Peterson, uh, the, ruminant animal only diet is so interesting. And my husband and I try that it's really hard to sustain, but we, while we were on it, like you said, you just feel different and you feel better. Okay. Okay. So. This guy comes up to your door. He's wearing a Bitcoin t shirt. Was there any point when you were talking to him where you thought, No, this can't be real.

No, because I trusted him immediately. There was immediately, I, I didn't have any doubts really. What that what you just said was before, you know, obviously, um, I had heard about Bitcoin every now and then in the years before, but you know, you put it away. You just think nah, this cannot be true. And it's a digital thing. Come on, you know, how could it be safe? How could it be capped? I mean, I don't even think I It was, it just seemed ludicrous before the idea that this could be something, something and something so important even, huh?

So what did this guy tell you that made you feel more comfortable beyond the fact that you kind of, you trusted him, but what did he say about Bitcoin that made you feel comfortable with it to keep learning about it?

Well, he just, you know, I don't know what it was, not something specific that he said it was just his, uh, His being, I guess, you know, that installed the, the, the trust. I mean, he, he pointed me towards some of the educators, maybe. And he helped me set up wallet and explained everything. And was always there when I needed help with the technological side of things, which is. my weakest point and, and it just kind of flowed from there. You know, we did a few Bitcoin workshops at my place and there was never any question after that point. There was never really, Oh, do I really trust him? Nah, you know, it just never came to mind.

What about your husband? Um, did he hop on board as easily as you did?

Um, no, he's um, He's just there. I said, no, he's not. So he didn't jump into the rabbit hole yet. Really. He just lets me, you know, he's hanging around on the fence, basically. I mean, he put some, you know, he knows what they were putting money in and all that, but it's not, he's never really studied it. And, um, Yeah, that's, uh, sometimes that's a bit difficult because you just want to exchange your, you know, your passion about it, but that's okay. It's okay. You know, we're in this together and he lets me be the Bitcoin person of the relationship.

That's unusual because usually it's the other way around. So what is his biggest hesitation about Bitcoin?

Why not ask him yourself? No, I'm joking. I don't really know because it's really something. We don't really talk about it much. It's just completely my thing. Like the chickens are completely my thing. You know, I'm the homestead of Bitcoiner and he's the tree surgery, whatever he does guy. And it's, it's, you know, we have our fields of expertise and that's what we do. There it's, sometimes I get a little bit stressed about it, but that's okay. You know, we've been together for a very long time and it's okay. We don't have to. Both do the same things and, you know, share the same opinions. So I don't really know. I think it's, he's still, he's not sure about it simply because he hasn't studied it yet.

What about sharing it with your children?

Um, they have their little wallets. They know about it. I have just ordered a couple of children's education books from the United States, which I'm waiting for them to come through the customs. so my children are six and ten. So yes, there is the conversation sometimes goes there, but I'm not giving them the deep down only to the point where they ask or they want to know. Thank But yes, I, what, what, what did my daughter say? So yeah, so they asked the other day, where does money come from? And I said, this is such an interesting question, huh? And so I explained to her that it gets printed by somebody. And she said like, okay, but that person could just print money for themselves, right? And I'm like, yeah, in, in a way that's a little bit what it is. Which it is. So it's starting, you know, it's going with the flow.

So what is life like in Portugal in terms of, your local currency? are you experiencing the same level of inflation that we are? well, at least in the United States over the last two years, because of COVID, there was a lot of money printing. And everybody's noticing that they're at least grocery bill has just. skyrocketed. What is it like in Portugal?

So we've got the, the Euro, there's the European currency now, huh? And, um, it's It's skyrocketing. Well, skyrocketing. Uh, you notice a huge difference. Yes. So I'm, when I'm going shopping, I intuitively make up my accounts and it usually always works out well. I recently, I find that without actually putting the numbers in the calculator, I've got a feeling of how much money I've got in my pocket and how much I can put in my basket. Recently, it hasn't worked so well because The prices have gone up. Yes, especially for products like animal products, butter, meat, milk, you know, the, the precious stuff, the nutrient dense products, they have gone up a lot, including animal feed. This is where I notice it the most. So animal feed has almost doubled. Grains for the chickens and the pigs. There's been a huge increase.

So how do you cope with that, that huge increase in the running of your homestead?

I made the price. So I'm selling products. Um, when I, I produce a little bit more than what we need and then the excess gets sold and I have increased the prices a little bit. Yes. That's how it is.

So do you accept Bitcoin at your farm?

Yes, we do. I have had several people already pay me on lightning. Yes.

That's exciting. Okay, so how has entering the Bitcoin space participating in that sort of ecosystem changed how you operate your life or your farm, either one?

Um, I think saving money has become, Possible again, if it wasn't for Bitcoin, we would be spending the money as it comes in because of that lingering feel that if you don't spend it now, it will be worth less in the future. Now Bitcoin has given me that tool of saving money, which I remember from my childhood, we had these little saving booklets. Yeah. And that you would put little bits of money in. And then when you were like 16 or whatever, you could have a bigger lump of money. Never really worked that way, but it was still in people's minds that you could save money. And I think that's gone lost over the last 20 years of a lot. People have. Especially, you know, especially the lower income classes, you know, of course, if you have huge income, you can always save some money, but even in the bigger income money and, you know, it becomes more and more challenging to preserve your wealth. And, um, Bitcoin has given us this tool to put money away for our future and for the children's future.

Yeah, for sure. I was talking to my son and his fiance last night and we're talking about them planning their future going forward. And I said to them, you can't save fast enough to beat inflation with your salary jobs. It's just, especially because they're in their early twenties, it used to be that you could. But not anymore. Okay, so you did mention that Your parents and your brother also moved from germany to portugal Would you mind sharing the reason for their move? Did they come to be with you? Or was there something happening in germany that prompted them to want to go to portugal?

So through my teenage years, my parents have kind of played with the idea of leaving Germany because they've always been, um, the odd ones out more alternative minded than the The people around them and it's always been there somewhere, but never anything concrete. Really. Now me going away and saying, I'm coming back just to pack my bags, to get my horse. And then I'm out again. Um, that was the trigger. And they initially, they just said, okay, we're gonna, while you're back here, packing your things, getting ready for your move, we're going to go on holiday to Portugal and see. where you are going to live, just so we have an idea of What's happening with you? Because, you know, I was 19. So that's still very young. And, um, off they went. I stayed with my brother, who's 12 years younger. So he was in school. And so I had to take him to school there. And they came back after two years and had bought a house in Portugal. And that was that. So, they were coming over to, they fell in love with the place, just like I did, and that's that, and they came over, and my brother went to school here, and nobody ever regretted the move.

Okay, this is a really ignorant question, but was there a language barrier? I mean in portugal they speak a different language than what you speak in germany, so Did it just decide that they were going to learn a new language? And it just, just like that?

Just like that. Yeah, just like that. It was, um, in Germany they speak German, and in Portugal they speak Portuguese, right? So yes, we all had to learn the language.

So no struggles there, because like, to me, that's a challenge.

It's a massive challenge and I'm still, uh, I can speak Portuguese, yes, but I'm nowhere near as confident with my Portuguese speaking as I am with my English speaking. It's no comparison. Now my parents, they get by, but you know, they were already a little bit older and my dad never really picked it up much. Only, you know, the words he needed. My mom gets by. My brother obviously is fluent cause he went to school. Um, But yeah, you have to learn the language.

Okay, so, I'm just gonna try to think this through, so, there must be something very special in Portugal for them to be willing to put up with the inconvenience of having to learn a new language and then having to, live in a culture where, for your dad at least, He's limited in his ability to communicate with the people, locally. So what was it about Portugal that drew them so much?

I believe it was the, the climate, huh? Germany has this Northern climate with deep cold winters and yeah, we have summer, um, but it's relatively short and Portugal is. South is Mediterranean. So you have zero snow to start with temperatures do not drop on the zero. I mean, there might be the odd peak downwards in a very cold winter's night, but it's just not a thing. Huh? And, uh, it makes life so much easier, the huge amounts of sunshine. So it's, it's warm. It's sunny most year round. You don't have to, worry about the cold winters. It's life's easier in that sense.

Yeah, I'm really jealous actually. Okay, um, also you had mentioned that, when your parents were in Germany, they felt a little bit out of place. What is it about Portugal that makes them feel more at home? In that sense.

Now I don't think they feel more integrated here than they did in Germany. Um, at all. But all the other things about Portugal are just weighing in the scales. it's a holiday country so that the vibe is completely different. especially for them because they never had to go to work here. So they're already in their retirement years and didn't have to worry about finding jobs and making money. So that was already ticked. So it's just a beautiful place to, to, to retire in.

What about Bitcoin? Are they open to Bitcoin? Do they care about Bitcoin?

They, yes, I have managed to orange pill them all. But none of them is as passionate or as educated about it as I am. So. I tried, I gave my mom, I bought her the Bitcoin standard in German, but she's like, ah, you know, it's difficult to read. I'll just trust you. Okay. Okay. Okay. But, um, they are, yeah, I'm the most passionate about it, but they are all in it. They all got some sats stacked away

What about your younger brother?

also.

How does he feel about it? Like is he just going along because you said it's a thing and you should, okay.

That's right. I say do and they do.

that's very lucky. What is the Bitcoin community like where you live?

I'm very friendly. Uh, we sometimes have some meetups. It's developing. People are starting to, especially where Holly is in the Western Algarve. So people are starting to really integrate shop owners into the network. And that's great. Um, so it's The seed is germinating, so to say. Other than that, I sometimes meet, I, so I run playdates here every Wednesday afternoon. I run playdates for, because my children are homeschooled and I run homeschooler meetups once a week and strangely enough, a lot of Bitcoiners show up, huh? Because a lot of Bitcoin's children seem to be homeschooled. Well, that's nice.

Yeah. Tell us about that. Why did you decide to homeschool?

Um, because of COVID, uh, um, so we, we sent, we initially we thought, okay, none of us has done alternative schooling, neither my husband nor me, we were just normally schooled in the public schools. And we thought, okay, um, how about we alternatively school our child? And then we decided against it because we don't have the experience. And the local school has got a very good reputation. It's very small. It's very local. And so we sent her to the local school and then COVID started and. The mania started with the masks and the fear and the testing and the vaccination and the, you know, it all. And we thought, no, we don't really want our child exposed to all of this. So we took her out quickly and started our homeschooling journey and have no intentions of ever sending a child back into public school.

So in the beginning, how did you prepare for it?

I didn't, I just jumped in the deep end. I had, uh, a good, um, I have, we have a good umbrella school who kind of led us into it a little bit, but in the end, it's just you and your child. You have to just find your way with it.

You seem so easy with new challenges and new projects. what would you say to a Bitcoiner who's thinking about homeschooling possibly?

Oh, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. It's just, it's been such an eyeopening thing. Again, you only realize when you do it, how much Time these children spend in school doing nothing or stupid things. It's just like this massive babysitting service and the stuff that they learn there. I can teach my children at home in an hour a day. And the rest of the time, they are out there playing with the neighbor's kids who are also homeschooled, doing creative things from morning till night, being with the animals, and just living their children's lives as they should be. And it's just the thought of putting them into a classroom and sit them down. Nah, not anymore. Those days are over for me. Totally.

I also homeschooled. I have four kids and they've all graduated. So I've gone from one end to the other. And what I loved about homeschooling was the fact that my boys, especially very, very active. I love that they could learn while they're being physically active. So for example, when they were memorizing the multiplication table, I had them jumping on our sofa while they were reciting and you couldn't do that. In school, you know, and even like my in laws will come over to my house and go, no, no, no, you can't stand up on the furniture and I'm thinking, why not? That's why it's there. You I'm like probably too, free about that, but I'm like, jump on the bed. I don't care. Jump on the furniture. That's what it's there for, you know, get your hands dirty, go outside, roll around in the mud. It's all good. It's all part of growing up. I don't believe that kids have to sit still and be clean all the time.

Mine are rarely clean, only in summer when they go in the pool. No, just joking, but you know what I mean. They are out there always.

As they should be, as they should be. It's, it's such a, more healthy lifestyle and, you get to teach them according to their needs,? So share maybe some challenges that you've had to overcome. when you started homeschooling up until now.

So the biggest challenge was dealing with the, with the system here. So getting her out and everybody off our backs was a very, very, uh, stressful. Cause we, uh, so there's different ways of doing this, but we were in a awkward situation. So. By law, we couldn't do what we do, but by constitution we can. So the constitution of Portugal says that the parent has the the right to choose the education for their child, but the law says the child has to go to a publicly, registered school. So there's this gray area, huh? And while the, while the law said no, and they sent, uh, from social services to youth protection people, it was awful, very, very stressful. But then we had a very good constitutional lawyer through our school, which is actually an American school as well, who operates here. And, We were always very transparent, but they really helped us close that case. in the eyes of big brother, so to say. So that's, and then since then we're through and nobody's knocking on our door again. It's all good. Um, but yeah, it was, it wasn't an easy journey because we already had her in the public school. Now, my second one, I don't think I will ever hear anything from anybody because he's, uh, he's never stepped into the system. But with her, it was difficult because we were in the spotlight.

I'm glad you got that sorted out. What about on the academic side? Was there any part of homeschooling that was particularly challenging?

well, we are now going into fifth grade. I always said that the primary school, elementary school, whatever you call it, uh, is the easy bit because, you know, that's, that's the basic. I can do this. Now going into fifth, et cetera, grade, I think I'm going to rely more on what's offered online. I'm gonna, use more courses and resources, which I find, and I'm hoping that that will be our path forward.

there are so many resources nowadays. It's, it's actually quite easy for parents to almost, there's almost too much information, you know, but there's, there's so many places you can get help. You don't have to do it yourself. I think that's what a lot of people misunderstand about homeschooling is that you have to do everything yourself. And that's just not true. Okay. So you mentioned that you had ordered some books to teach your kids about Bitcoin. What did you order? What are these books?

I can't even remember the title. And oh, I can hold on a something with monster that this, uh, I would have to look it up because it's ages ago. And then the stuff got held up in the customs and I've only now. Um, You know, filled in all the forms and sent him the extra payment and all that kind of stuff, which is always a problem getting things from America, unfortunately. wait, Chamori. Chamori is the name of the editor. Uh, you heard about it? Yeah.

a

Yes,

I think is

that's right. Yes, yes, yes. I think that's two of those books.

Got it. Oh yeah. we know the Couple who produces them. Scott is great. His name is Scott. My husband's name is Scott My husband actually designed a board game to teach me about Bitcoin a couple years ago And it was the way that I had to Interact with Bitcoin to understand it enough to go forward. So it's actually become a tool that we're sharing with All the Bitcoiners were willing to listen to us. It's a board game. And, uh, we actually created it for middle schoolers and up to learn about Bitcoin mining, but we've had a lot of customers who wrote us and said, you know what, I played the game with my five year old and they catch on so quick. Don't you don't think that they would think that way, but you know, they have nothing to unlearn and so it's just it's just been a Fascinating journey, but yeah, there are more and more resources coming online. There's something else you can use as well has an app that rolled out a few months ago And as long as you have access to an internet you can access their material Me premiere is another one. There was another guest who used their material to have a Bitcoin camp for her daughter and her friends who are in elementary school. So, lots of resources.

I would love to get in touch with you after and then maybe you can send me some stuff. I'm always very grateful for people sending me in the right direction. So that'd be awesome.

Yeah, no problem at all. Um, okay. So, last question. What would you suggest to women Bitcoin?

So I think the first thing I would recommend is to put an amount in that you feel comfortable uh, losing. Um, so to get off zero, yeah, that's the big motto here. And then after that, I think then educate yourself. But educate yourself, because there is like a handful of top educators out there, and these are brilliant people producing amazing educational material through their interviews, podcasts, you name it. Find the one that resonates with you, and then go from there. You will find one that resonates with you, I promise you that. There's going to be somebody out there who will grab your fascination. But another thing I would also say to them is why are you sitting on the fence? Do you think it's a scam? It's an old scam then. Hey, I mean, haven't worked that out. So do you think it's a scam? Ask that question or do you think you're too late? Is that why you're sitting on the fence or do you have no money? Do you feel like you can put nothing in? So on that one, I would say if you're really poor and you really can't afford to put anything in, there is. websites where you can stack free sets. You can find them and you can actually get sets for free. It's trickle stuff, but it's there and it works. And so if you really feel you have zero amount to spend, then start stacking free sets. And then about the other two, I think we also have to ask yourself, what's the worst outcome? So what's the worst outcome? If you put a hundred dollars in and it's a scam and then you lose a hundred dollars, okay. What's the worst outcome if you don't put the hundred euros in and or dollars and it's not a scam, then we're going to be in 10 years. So really, you know, always ask what's the worst outcome. And then think again. I think that's what I would say to everybody.

I love that advice about if you don't have money to buy Bitcoin, then start earning free sats. That is so true. I never thought of it that way, but it is so true. And there are apps that would give you, like you said, trickle amounts of sats, and you're already off zero if you just do that one simple thing. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Julia. I so appreciate you talking with us today. Thanks for joining us today If the discussion with our guests resonated with you and you would like to dive deeper into the world of Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club. The meetup link is in the show notes. Also, if there are women in your life whom you think would both enjoy and benefit from learning more about Bitcoin, please share Orange Hatter with them. Until next time, bye!