1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,009 Restream.io on 2023-12-14 at 15.13.53: Hello and welcome to the 2 00:00:02,015 --> 00:00:05,699 e-Commerce Podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmondson. 3 00:00:05,705 --> 00:00:09,420 Now, this is a show all about helping you deliver e-commerce. 4 00:00:09,479 --> 00:00:09,839 Wow. 5 00:00:09,845 --> 00:00:10,379 Yes, it is. 6 00:00:10,650 --> 00:00:15,460 And to help us do just that today we are chatting with Ilene 7 00:00:15,479 --> 00:00:17,699 Richardson from Imaginary Content. 8 00:00:18,275 --> 00:00:20,894 And we're going to get into all kinds of things about content and eCommerce 9 00:00:21,265 --> 00:00:24,134 and what it means and all that sort of good stuff so don't go anywhere because 10 00:00:24,134 --> 00:00:27,424 you're definitely going to learn some great stuff from Ilene today, who? 11 00:00:28,830 --> 00:00:32,599 It's fair to say that we met at Subsummit, another amazing guest 12 00:00:32,599 --> 00:00:33,790 from the Subsummit conference. 13 00:00:34,710 --> 00:00:36,440 We would no doubt we'll be talking about that. 14 00:00:36,450 --> 00:00:41,109 So yes, get ready, get your pens ready, get your notepads out, because you're 15 00:00:41,109 --> 00:00:42,430 going to want to take some notes today. 16 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,839 And before we get into it, let me just say, if this is the first time with 17 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:48,650 us, welcome to the eCommerce Podcast. 18 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,110 Always great to welcome new listeners to the show. 19 00:00:51,590 --> 00:00:52,890 Always great to have you with us. 20 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,360 And if you are watching The live stream of this recording. 21 00:00:57,260 --> 00:00:58,200 A warm welcome to you. 22 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,709 We do live stream the recording out to our cohort members. 23 00:01:02,660 --> 00:01:06,090 So if you want to know more about eCommerce Cohorts, where you can get 24 00:01:06,100 --> 00:01:09,649 to watch the recording of the podcast, get to come and ask questions all 25 00:01:09,649 --> 00:01:12,910 yourself, then check out eCommerceCohort. 26 00:01:12,970 --> 00:01:13,200 com. 27 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,559 It's our monthly mastermind, our monthly membership group. 28 00:01:15,850 --> 00:01:16,580 Love to see you in there. 29 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:17,899 We're in there every day. 30 00:01:17,899 --> 00:01:19,320 We're in there all the time. 31 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:20,660 So come join us, eCommerceCohort. 32 00:01:21,860 --> 00:01:21,890 com. 33 00:01:23,225 --> 00:01:24,494 Now, let's talk about Ilene. 34 00:01:24,514 --> 00:01:27,565 I'm going to read from my notes to make sure I get this right. 35 00:01:27,964 --> 00:01:34,324 But Ilene is the Dynamo's CEO and founder of Imaginary Content, where she is 36 00:01:34,334 --> 00:01:39,804 shaking up the agency world by cutting the fluff, love this by cutting the 37 00:01:39,804 --> 00:01:41,985 fluff and delivering top notch content. 38 00:01:42,700 --> 00:01:44,490 Without the hefty price tag. 39 00:01:45,150 --> 00:01:51,259 With a trophy case that includes a Clio award and credits spanning TV to digital. 40 00:01:51,259 --> 00:01:55,629 Ilene is the Swiss army knife of content creation, which I think is 41 00:01:55,629 --> 00:01:56,840 the best job title in the world. 42 00:01:57,660 --> 00:01:59,449 But don't let the accolades fool you. 43 00:01:59,450 --> 00:02:04,340 She is a caring boss lady who fosters a creative playground for her team to 44 00:02:04,340 --> 00:02:07,660 produce their best work every single time. 45 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:08,990 Ilene, welcome to the show. 46 00:02:08,990 --> 00:02:09,629 Great to have you. 47 00:02:09,629 --> 00:02:10,520 Great to see you again. 48 00:02:10,530 --> 00:02:11,690 How are we doing today? 49 00:02:13,020 --> 00:02:14,830 Hi, thank you for having me. 50 00:02:14,830 --> 00:02:16,890 I'm so excited to be here and that might go down as like 51 00:02:16,890 --> 00:02:18,790 the best intro for me ever. 52 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,106 So I'm going to take some notes. 53 00:02:22,106 --> 00:02:26,344 I like the Swiss Army knife of content creation. 54 00:02:26,344 --> 00:02:29,369 Yeah, I like that too, that's great. 55 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:33,980 It's definitely got a sort of zing to it, that's for sure. 56 00:02:34,010 --> 00:02:36,029 But whereabouts in the world are you, Ilene? 57 00:02:36,959 --> 00:02:39,909 So we're just outside of New York City, in Connecticut. 58 00:02:39,959 --> 00:02:44,479 But we do have team members spread all across the country, even across the globe. 59 00:02:44,789 --> 00:02:49,409 But our headquarters and content studio is based in lovely Norwalk, Connecticut. 60 00:02:49,790 --> 00:02:52,739 Ah, a beautiful part of the world Connecticut. 61 00:02:52,799 --> 00:02:55,309 I was there a few years ago, some friends of mine live in Connecticut. 62 00:02:55,839 --> 00:02:56,739 And just stunning. 63 00:02:56,850 --> 00:02:57,320 Loved it. 64 00:02:57,389 --> 00:02:57,609 Loved. 65 00:02:58,149 --> 00:03:00,609 I can see why they live there and why you would want to live there. 66 00:03:00,609 --> 00:03:01,479 It's just beautiful. 67 00:03:01,489 --> 00:03:03,509 Here you are beaming across the Atlantic. 68 00:03:05,089 --> 00:03:07,609 And we we were talking about this before we hit the record button that 69 00:03:07,610 --> 00:03:13,089 we met at Sub Summit, didn't we, in 2023 you were speaking at the event. 70 00:03:13,099 --> 00:03:14,349 Do you speak at many events? 71 00:03:15,529 --> 00:03:17,029 I did a bit last year. 72 00:03:17,029 --> 00:03:20,729 It's great to go out, and talk about what we're doing and listen 73 00:03:20,779 --> 00:03:22,269 to other people in this space. 74 00:03:22,279 --> 00:03:24,709 So it's really, it's been really fun. 75 00:03:24,709 --> 00:03:25,219 I enjoy that. 76 00:03:25,219 --> 00:03:26,579 I probably do some more next year. 77 00:03:26,929 --> 00:03:28,929 Yeah, get out and see the world a little bit. 78 00:03:28,999 --> 00:03:29,769 And yeah. 79 00:03:29,909 --> 00:03:30,399 And enjoy it. 80 00:03:30,419 --> 00:03:33,129 It's nice, actually, post COVID that we're back doing these sort 81 00:03:33,129 --> 00:03:34,579 of big live events, isn't it? 82 00:03:35,349 --> 00:03:36,139 Yeah. 83 00:03:36,344 --> 00:03:37,604 It's great, it really is. 84 00:03:37,604 --> 00:03:39,514 It was a little bit of like re entry, right? 85 00:03:39,514 --> 00:03:42,594 When it first started again, you're like, oh my gosh, we're around all these 86 00:03:42,594 --> 00:03:46,064 people, and if somebody sneezes, everybody would turn around and be like, oh, no. 87 00:03:46,449 --> 00:03:48,729 But it's great to have some more normalcy because the in person 88 00:03:48,729 --> 00:03:50,049 connections are so valuable. 89 00:03:50,269 --> 00:03:52,419 It was great to meet you I just happened to at your table 90 00:03:52,419 --> 00:03:53,339 and see what you're up to. 91 00:03:53,339 --> 00:03:54,009 It was great. 92 00:03:54,049 --> 00:03:54,439 Yeah. 93 00:03:54,439 --> 00:03:54,789 Yeah. 94 00:03:54,889 --> 00:03:55,979 Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? 95 00:03:56,009 --> 00:04:00,819 it's going back in these sort of chance connections that you make and We've 96 00:04:00,819 --> 00:04:05,809 had a few of the what's the best phrase to describe people from subsummit? 97 00:04:05,810 --> 00:04:05,959 Subsummiters. 98 00:04:05,959 --> 00:04:14,364 I don't know the subsummit cohort the subsummit clan maybe Yeah, the Sub Summit 99 00:04:14,364 --> 00:04:22,404 Clan, the SSC, maybe we should call it the SSC, I'm going to call Chris and 100 00:04:22,404 --> 00:04:23,824 tell him we're going to call it the SSC. 101 00:04:25,634 --> 00:04:28,494 But yeah, we've had quite a few people from SubSummit now on the show. 102 00:04:28,674 --> 00:04:32,554 So it's great to have you on and recently we had Neil Hoynes on the 103 00:04:32,554 --> 00:04:35,824 show who was one of the keynote speakers from SubSummit as well. 104 00:04:35,854 --> 00:04:38,384 So yeah, we're getting our money's worth. 105 00:04:38,464 --> 00:04:41,424 If you weren't at SubSummit 2023, basically all the really good 106 00:04:41,424 --> 00:04:42,864 speakers have been on this podcast. 107 00:04:44,334 --> 00:04:45,294 Yeah, exactly. 108 00:04:46,554 --> 00:04:47,234 Just tune in. 109 00:04:47,234 --> 00:04:48,154 You don't need to go next year. 110 00:04:50,574 --> 00:04:51,334 Oh funny. 111 00:04:51,335 --> 00:04:51,664 Yeah. 112 00:04:52,114 --> 00:04:53,764 Did you hear that someone's banging on my window? 113 00:04:53,764 --> 00:04:54,514 Sorry about that. 114 00:04:54,594 --> 00:04:55,034 Yeah, no problem. 115 00:04:55,034 --> 00:04:56,014 They're clinging something outside. 116 00:04:58,094 --> 00:04:58,774 Just let them in. 117 00:04:58,784 --> 00:04:59,184 Hello? 118 00:04:59,184 --> 00:05:00,934 Yeah. 119 00:05:01,679 --> 00:05:05,589 So tell me a bit about what you guys are doing in Connecticut at Imaginary Content. 120 00:05:05,599 --> 00:05:05,969 What's that? 121 00:05:06,039 --> 00:05:06,959 What's the MO? 122 00:05:08,089 --> 00:05:08,689 Not much. 123 00:05:08,699 --> 00:05:08,959 No. 124 00:05:09,009 --> 00:05:10,489 We're so thrilled. 125 00:05:11,729 --> 00:05:15,969 We're so excited to be going into the new year with, our clients 126 00:05:15,969 --> 00:05:17,029 and the work we've been doing. 127 00:05:17,029 --> 00:05:24,039 We developed eCommerce content creation, strategy, execution, 128 00:05:24,069 --> 00:05:27,369 and it's been a space we've been playing in for over five years now. 129 00:05:27,479 --> 00:05:27,769 Wow. 130 00:05:27,809 --> 00:05:28,409 Last year. 131 00:05:28,874 --> 00:05:30,914 We were, we moved into our new headquarters. 132 00:05:30,914 --> 00:05:32,394 We built out a content studio. 133 00:05:32,394 --> 00:05:36,464 So not only were we doing the, copywriting and graphic design elements 134 00:05:36,464 --> 00:05:40,504 of the content, but we're all actually shooting and photographing in house. 135 00:05:40,514 --> 00:05:42,124 So it's been great. 136 00:05:42,134 --> 00:05:42,834 It's exciting. 137 00:05:42,864 --> 00:05:43,474 It's exciting. 138 00:05:43,474 --> 00:05:46,814 I really feel like we're on the forefront of where, Kind of advertising 139 00:05:46,814 --> 00:05:51,024 creativity needs to be right now because that's exactly where the consumer 140 00:05:51,024 --> 00:05:52,724 is making their purchase decision. 141 00:05:52,724 --> 00:05:54,514 So what's more critical than that, right? 142 00:05:54,564 --> 00:05:58,584 Like communicating to the consumer exactly at their point of decision 143 00:05:58,584 --> 00:06:00,494 making in their path to purchase. 144 00:06:00,794 --> 00:06:03,974 So we get really fired up and excited. 145 00:06:04,934 --> 00:06:07,904 In the old days, it used to be all about everybody wanted to have those, 146 00:06:07,904 --> 00:06:09,884 big flashy commercials on broadcast TV. 147 00:06:09,884 --> 00:06:12,084 And now we're all like, no, this is where it's at. 148 00:06:12,094 --> 00:06:13,484 This is where we're really getting. 149 00:06:14,084 --> 00:06:15,744 Consumers to pay attention. 150 00:06:16,044 --> 00:06:17,764 Yeah it's, yeah, it's interesting. 151 00:06:17,764 --> 00:06:21,324 I was talking to my son about this the other day, because he mentioned to me 152 00:06:21,324 --> 00:06:25,884 that he'd understood for the first time, the expense of TV advertising, and this, 153 00:06:25,954 --> 00:06:28,394 the sheer crazy costs involved with it. 154 00:06:29,694 --> 00:06:30,204 Yeah. 155 00:06:30,204 --> 00:06:33,114 And he's I don't understand how companies can do this. 156 00:06:33,124 --> 00:06:36,204 And I'm like it's definitely not something that I'm that interested in myself as 157 00:06:36,204 --> 00:06:38,334 a, as an eCom entrepreneur, because. 158 00:06:38,874 --> 00:06:42,834 I'm just not, I'm just not big enough to convey that amount of money, 159 00:06:43,314 --> 00:06:48,014 but I'm intrigued a little bit, Ilene, if I can about the studio. 160 00:06:48,184 --> 00:06:52,694 So I'm sat in a studio that we built down at our warehouse where 161 00:06:52,694 --> 00:06:55,284 we do all of the fulfillment from for ourselves, for our clients. 162 00:06:56,589 --> 00:07:00,189 So I'm in a studio, in a podcast studio, because we have a podcast agency as well. 163 00:07:00,469 --> 00:07:02,629 I am big into the whole podcasting thing. 164 00:07:02,629 --> 00:07:04,079 I love doing the whole podcasting thing. 165 00:07:04,459 --> 00:07:07,039 But you guys have taken it one step further, haven't you? 166 00:07:07,039 --> 00:07:08,409 What's going on with your studio? 167 00:07:08,989 --> 00:07:13,009 We discovered as we were creating the content that not, in order 168 00:07:13,009 --> 00:07:15,979 to have your content register on the digital shelf it needs to be 169 00:07:16,219 --> 00:07:17,919 live when your product goes live. 170 00:07:18,149 --> 00:07:19,039 So if you're dealing with. 171 00:07:19,484 --> 00:07:24,044 A new product, a lot of those other materials, whether you're doing social 172 00:07:24,044 --> 00:07:28,094 marketing or you're doing, any traditional marketing methods, those materials don't 173 00:07:28,094 --> 00:07:32,594 get done until right up until potentially the product launch and the live date. 174 00:07:32,814 --> 00:07:37,674 But in order to be listed on Amazon, Walmart, you name it, on the first day 175 00:07:37,704 --> 00:07:43,024 of sale, you need to have your base level of content to qualify for the listing. 176 00:07:43,314 --> 00:07:45,934 So we were in a situation where there was a lot of work we were 177 00:07:45,934 --> 00:07:47,484 doing and we didn't have any assets. 178 00:07:48,024 --> 00:07:50,354 There weren't any, brand assets yet to work with. 179 00:07:50,354 --> 00:07:54,434 And we started shooting our own and we started going to external studios to 180 00:07:54,504 --> 00:07:56,754 rent to space or outsource in some way. 181 00:07:56,804 --> 00:08:00,749 And really realize that, especially with my background in, in television 182 00:08:00,749 --> 00:08:05,154 and video production, it just made sense to do it all in house, so we're not. 183 00:08:05,724 --> 00:08:11,444 We're a creative, cohesive unit here that we can come up with the 184 00:08:11,444 --> 00:08:12,844 idea and we can go execute it. 185 00:08:12,844 --> 00:08:15,774 So a lot of what we've been doing in the six months we've built out this 186 00:08:15,784 --> 00:08:20,454 studio is a lot of recipe videos, hands and pans videos, lifestyle 187 00:08:20,454 --> 00:08:22,584 videos, and we shoot them at scale. 188 00:08:22,844 --> 00:08:27,094 We, it's to your point about how TV commercials are so expensive in the 189 00:08:27,094 --> 00:08:30,574 old days you would have had like a gigantic crew and three days of pre 190 00:08:30,574 --> 00:08:34,994 pro and this and that to just shoot a recipe video, but we've really started 191 00:08:35,004 --> 00:08:39,864 pushing the boundaries of how you do great content at scale that works in 192 00:08:39,864 --> 00:08:42,044 the digital space specifically, right? 193 00:08:42,054 --> 00:08:46,164 So that it's not a super busy frame so that people who are watching 194 00:08:46,164 --> 00:08:49,514 it on mobile, which is where 70 percent of the consumers are. 195 00:08:50,104 --> 00:08:53,424 Can get what they're looking for out of your content. 196 00:08:53,764 --> 00:08:55,904 So we have our studio space here. 197 00:08:55,954 --> 00:08:58,214 We have a full kitchen and we have a prop library. 198 00:08:58,214 --> 00:09:01,924 We built that all out and we're expanding beyond just food and actually 199 00:09:02,154 --> 00:09:05,064 starting Monday, we're shooting lifestyle products in here as well. 200 00:09:05,394 --> 00:09:10,294 And just being really nimble and agile in the full creative process to make sure 201 00:09:10,294 --> 00:09:13,064 our clients are getting great content. 202 00:09:13,064 --> 00:09:15,264 That's going to help drive conversion for their products. 203 00:09:16,479 --> 00:09:17,649 Yeah, it's fascinating. 204 00:09:17,659 --> 00:09:22,819 I'm intrigued by it because I know for me, when it came to creating video 205 00:09:22,929 --> 00:09:27,819 content it, life became a lot easier when I had a place where I could just go 206 00:09:27,819 --> 00:09:31,949 and switch something on and just do it. 207 00:09:32,229 --> 00:09:36,029 It was just, it was a beautiful thing, but it's probably fair to say, cause I 208 00:09:36,039 --> 00:09:40,329 appreciate that not everybody listening to this podcast will, will have the 209 00:09:40,329 --> 00:09:41,799 ability to go and create a studio. 210 00:09:43,069 --> 00:09:43,509 Yeah. 211 00:09:44,499 --> 00:09:47,349 But you, there are, you can rent studios out. 212 00:09:47,399 --> 00:09:50,929 I know when we do recipe videos, actually, I don't have a kitchen in our studio, 213 00:09:50,989 --> 00:09:54,959 but we there's a friend of mine who has a beautiful kitchen and we pay her a rental 214 00:09:54,959 --> 00:09:57,139 fee every day that we're down in there. 215 00:09:57,139 --> 00:10:01,369 So there are, and maybe to speak to this, there are some creative ways to 216 00:10:01,369 --> 00:10:03,139 get around not having a studio, right? 217 00:10:04,099 --> 00:10:05,059 Yeah, for sure. 218 00:10:05,129 --> 00:10:09,154 At the bottom line, if you're talking about sort of Smaller 219 00:10:09,154 --> 00:10:12,894 brands, new brands, some content is better than no content, right? 220 00:10:13,004 --> 00:10:16,574 The content needs to be good, but you have to make sure you are 221 00:10:17,544 --> 00:10:19,204 creating content for your site. 222 00:10:19,214 --> 00:10:22,324 So you don't necessarily need a studio to do it. 223 00:10:22,554 --> 00:10:26,474 You just need to have a plan for what's going to work best to showcase 224 00:10:26,474 --> 00:10:29,574 the benefits of your product for us, because we're doing it at scale and 225 00:10:29,574 --> 00:10:34,064 we're doing You know, thousands and thousands of PDP pages every single year. 226 00:10:34,264 --> 00:10:38,304 It just made sense for us to bring it in house as a core capability, a lot 227 00:10:38,304 --> 00:10:44,224 of brands or a lot of brands that have smaller SKU counts, smaller SKU lists and 228 00:10:44,224 --> 00:10:46,374 are just, working a little more nimbly. 229 00:10:46,594 --> 00:10:51,264 You don't need to invest in the whole studio. 230 00:10:51,264 --> 00:10:55,451 Our studio was quite large, but we know agencies that have a studio that 231 00:10:55,451 --> 00:10:57,751 are the size of just the small office. 232 00:10:58,441 --> 00:11:04,261 In studio, you put a camera and light, it doesn't have to be a 10,000 233 00:11:04,311 --> 00:11:06,011 square foot space with tons of gear. 234 00:11:06,011 --> 00:11:10,651 It just has to be equipped for what you need. 235 00:11:10,651 --> 00:11:15,374 But there are plenty of resources to do that out of house, whether it's renting 236 00:11:15,374 --> 00:11:19,574 spaces or subcontracting out that content, the important thing is that 237 00:11:19,574 --> 00:11:23,534 you're thinking about your content as part of your go to market strategy, as 238 00:11:23,534 --> 00:11:26,354 part of your, omni channel sales plan. 239 00:11:27,664 --> 00:11:32,314 So the, you mentioned that, some content is better than no content. 240 00:11:33,879 --> 00:11:35,569 But the content should be good. 241 00:11:35,579 --> 00:11:39,637 So how, if we're going to start thinking about this say from a 242 00:11:39,717 --> 00:11:43,787 startup's point of view, what sort of things should I be thinking 243 00:11:43,787 --> 00:11:45,177 about that is going to make it good? 244 00:11:45,187 --> 00:11:48,017 How do I know if it's good or bad? 245 00:11:48,017 --> 00:11:51,887 Because I think we're the biggest deceiver of ourselves sometimes when it comes to 246 00:11:51,887 --> 00:11:56,257 this kind of thing, that's a great phrase. 247 00:11:56,257 --> 00:11:56,787 Yeah, we do. 248 00:11:57,427 --> 00:12:01,077 And I'm just curious, what do you mean by good and what sort of 249 00:12:01,077 --> 00:12:02,887 things should we be thinking about? 250 00:12:03,767 --> 00:12:07,167 Yeah, so I think that there's a scale. 251 00:12:07,177 --> 00:12:09,297 We call it the content maturity model. 252 00:12:09,637 --> 00:12:16,217 And if you're a smaller brand or a new brand, the important things are you're 253 00:12:16,267 --> 00:12:21,227 giving the consumer the information they need to have confidence in the purchase. 254 00:12:21,477 --> 00:12:24,477 So if it's a new product, your content needs to communicate. 255 00:12:25,222 --> 00:12:29,812 What your product is, what it does or how it tastes, or the flavor 256 00:12:29,812 --> 00:12:31,852 profile or the usage occasion. 257 00:12:32,402 --> 00:12:38,422 You need to be in a quick, short, ideally, visual style. 258 00:12:38,712 --> 00:12:42,462 You need to be able to communicate that to the consumer and consumers are looking to 259 00:12:42,467 --> 00:12:45,012 understand the product benefits clearly. 260 00:12:45,412 --> 00:12:47,032 What your point of differentiation is. 261 00:12:47,032 --> 00:12:50,592 So let's just say it's a different flavor or let's just say it's a different scent. 262 00:12:50,812 --> 00:12:53,802 Those are the things that need to be simply and clearly communicated 263 00:12:53,872 --> 00:12:55,232 in whatever content you produce. 264 00:12:55,522 --> 00:12:59,762 And that could be a graphic tile, in your PDP page. 265 00:12:59,782 --> 00:13:03,592 It could be a small video 15 seconds, 20 seconds. 266 00:13:03,887 --> 00:13:06,797 That clearly illustrates these points. 267 00:13:07,207 --> 00:13:11,867 And in terms of execution, yeah, we've gone a long way from even a few 268 00:13:11,867 --> 00:13:15,607 years ago where you would see like a cell phone picture of a like wrinkly 269 00:13:15,607 --> 00:13:17,747 package on a shelf somewhere that was. 270 00:13:18,272 --> 00:13:20,962 That was basically standing up a product. 271 00:13:20,972 --> 00:13:28,102 It does have to, it does have to have kind of the value that your company has. 272 00:13:28,112 --> 00:13:32,152 So if your company is that I'm thinking of earthy crunchy brands, right? 273 00:13:32,212 --> 00:13:36,122 Granola bars or things that you would eat on a hike, those brands, you 274 00:13:36,132 --> 00:13:39,072 might want to shoot something outdoors because that's in the vibe of what 275 00:13:39,072 --> 00:13:41,382 your consumer's usage occasion will be. 276 00:13:41,712 --> 00:13:44,172 And that maybe could be a little more user generated or. 277 00:13:44,367 --> 00:13:48,687 From an organic point of view, but if you're presenting something that's 278 00:13:48,687 --> 00:13:52,957 really slick and maybe at a higher price point, you need to reflect that a bit 279 00:13:52,967 --> 00:13:56,307 in your content, which doesn't mean you have to pay more for your content. 280 00:13:56,307 --> 00:13:58,957 It just means that you need to have a cohesive strategy. 281 00:13:59,167 --> 00:14:03,467 Your content has to reflect the visual language that you're establishing 282 00:14:03,467 --> 00:14:05,357 or have established for your brand. 283 00:14:05,547 --> 00:14:08,957 However that best suits you while communicating the key 284 00:14:08,957 --> 00:14:10,417 attributes of your product. 285 00:14:12,392 --> 00:14:16,142 That's really, it's a really good point, actually, communicating the visual aspects 286 00:14:16,142 --> 00:14:20,422 of your brand, because, and I like that if you're doing an outdoor, if you're 287 00:14:20,422 --> 00:14:23,862 doing a granola bar, I can see why you can see the image in your head, can't you? 288 00:14:23,862 --> 00:14:24,862 Let's shoot that. 289 00:14:24,872 --> 00:14:27,782 Yeah, there's gonna be some grass or some guys up a mountain or something. 290 00:14:28,062 --> 00:14:28,342 Yeah. 291 00:14:28,512 --> 00:14:31,932 Versus if I'm doing a premium skincare product, I'm probably 292 00:14:31,932 --> 00:14:34,732 not going to shoot that in the same place for obvious reasons. 293 00:14:35,202 --> 00:14:38,032 It's going to be in a high end bathroom or something like that, isn't it? 294 00:14:38,032 --> 00:14:40,452 And I'm going to, I'm going to do that sort of imagery. 295 00:14:40,977 --> 00:14:45,457 What do you think about and the reason I'm asking this is because at the time 296 00:14:45,647 --> 00:14:51,197 Ilene we're actually, my company is about to launch another brand which 297 00:14:51,197 --> 00:14:52,717 is a premium skincare brand, right? 298 00:14:52,717 --> 00:14:55,217 So we're thinking again about assets and imagery. 299 00:14:56,227 --> 00:14:56,507 And so. 300 00:14:57,157 --> 00:15:04,237 What do you think about for example, me going on to say Midjourney or 301 00:15:04,237 --> 00:15:08,707 an other AI image generator and say, Hey, give me an image of this 302 00:15:08,717 --> 00:15:11,737 product in a high end bathroom. 303 00:15:12,127 --> 00:15:14,397 Should I be entertaining things like that? 304 00:15:14,417 --> 00:15:16,877 Or should I just be avoiding at all costs? 305 00:15:17,432 --> 00:15:19,432 That's a, that's like the million dollar question. 306 00:15:19,472 --> 00:15:20,952 Billion dollar question, right? 307 00:15:21,002 --> 00:15:21,442 Isn't it? 308 00:15:21,682 --> 00:15:22,024 That's absolutely. 309 00:15:22,024 --> 00:15:25,828 If someone wants to pay me a million dollars for the answer, that'd be awesome. 310 00:15:26,388 --> 00:15:31,188 From my perspective, what's different than about just looking at a stock footage, 311 00:15:31,208 --> 00:15:36,653 going to Shutterstock or Pond5 or whoever you use, find a high end, background, 312 00:15:36,743 --> 00:15:40,723 bathroom, and have someone Photoshop your product in, at least then the usage rights 313 00:15:41,003 --> 00:15:42,633 of the image you're using are clear. 314 00:15:42,813 --> 00:15:46,793 What worries me about that, and I know Google and everyone's working on, ensuring 315 00:15:46,793 --> 00:15:49,223 that usage rights are taken care of. 316 00:15:49,533 --> 00:15:51,693 So sure, you can do that. 317 00:15:51,723 --> 00:15:53,953 There's no reason not to. 318 00:15:53,973 --> 00:15:58,258 You just might find that If you're looking for video, that's 319 00:15:58,268 --> 00:16:00,278 a harder plug and play solution. 320 00:16:00,668 --> 00:16:03,278 Just looking to create some still images. 321 00:16:03,278 --> 00:16:06,728 And you also want to make sure your product looks great and, 322 00:16:06,778 --> 00:16:10,058 probably have some retouching on your product to some products have 323 00:16:10,058 --> 00:16:12,108 lots of extra writing on them. 324 00:16:12,108 --> 00:16:13,328 You want to have it super clean. 325 00:16:13,328 --> 00:16:15,388 So it's a clean read for the consumer. 326 00:16:15,398 --> 00:16:18,338 Just the key things about your product, the size. 327 00:16:18,893 --> 00:16:23,673 The servings or the usages, if there's any variants for skincare, if it's for 328 00:16:23,673 --> 00:16:26,553 oily skin or dry skin, those things you want to make sure are accentuated 329 00:16:26,603 --> 00:16:31,703 on the product, not just where you're putting it in situ, but how the product 330 00:16:31,703 --> 00:16:34,608 itself is cleaned up and really forceful. 331 00:16:36,428 --> 00:16:36,888 That's good. 332 00:16:36,888 --> 00:16:37,688 It's interesting. 333 00:16:37,988 --> 00:16:45,328 I think the interesting thing with AI for me is I tend to use it for ideas rather 334 00:16:45,468 --> 00:16:47,848 than final content, if that makes sense. 335 00:16:47,848 --> 00:16:51,118 It's it's helpful to generate ideas for me to go, oh, okay, That's 336 00:16:51,118 --> 00:16:52,348 the kind of thing that I want. 337 00:16:52,358 --> 00:16:56,388 So I can give that to the design team or, the graphic designer or 338 00:16:56,388 --> 00:16:59,818 whoever's involved and say, in my head, this is the kind of thing that 339 00:16:59,818 --> 00:17:01,568 I'm thinking, can you run with that? 340 00:17:01,628 --> 00:17:05,968 And yeah, it's great, but also here's a little tip. 341 00:17:05,968 --> 00:17:07,713 You can use it for keywords. 342 00:17:08,203 --> 00:17:12,923 For your SEO optimization, it's one of the things we use for 343 00:17:12,923 --> 00:17:14,313 keywords and it's actually great. 344 00:17:14,643 --> 00:17:18,763 What keywords are relevant for this retailer, this product, this, it comes up 345 00:17:18,763 --> 00:17:22,783 with some things that are at least as good as other sources that you might pay for. 346 00:17:23,423 --> 00:17:26,683 And it really helps round out making sure your keywords are 347 00:17:26,703 --> 00:17:28,003 as robust as they should be. 348 00:17:28,423 --> 00:17:28,753 Yeah. 349 00:17:29,173 --> 00:17:29,783 No powerful. 350 00:17:30,143 --> 00:17:32,803 So should I be let's talk about the skincare brand. 351 00:17:32,803 --> 00:17:34,973 Cause it's a great example for maybe of a start and then we'll get 352 00:17:34,973 --> 00:17:36,033 into some more established stuff. 353 00:17:36,573 --> 00:17:40,973 Should I get the need just having done some research on competitors 354 00:17:41,003 --> 00:17:42,753 and actually haven't been in the beauty space for a while. 355 00:17:43,043 --> 00:17:49,223 I understand the need to have images which portray prestige and high 356 00:17:49,223 --> 00:17:51,963 end in the product photography. 357 00:17:52,093 --> 00:17:53,773 So I know we're going to have to do that. 358 00:17:53,773 --> 00:17:54,113 Wow. 359 00:17:54,648 --> 00:17:57,468 I'm not going to get away with just putting the product on a 360 00:17:57,468 --> 00:18:00,578 table and taking a picture and it'll be fine with my iPhone. 361 00:18:00,578 --> 00:18:02,308 I appreciate that's not going to work. 362 00:18:03,578 --> 00:18:07,638 Should I also then be thinking about video? 363 00:18:07,638 --> 00:18:07,778 Yeah. 364 00:18:07,778 --> 00:18:08,828 Obviously you've got your studio. 365 00:18:08,828 --> 00:18:10,308 You've mentioned it a couple of times. 366 00:18:10,768 --> 00:18:15,488 Should I be thinking about video and what sort of things should I be thinking about 367 00:18:15,498 --> 00:18:19,578 video if I should be, that's a really long winded way of saying, what should 368 00:18:19,578 --> 00:18:21,393 I be thinking about video, video or not. 369 00:18:21,733 --> 00:18:23,253 That's a really good question, right? 370 00:18:23,533 --> 00:18:28,703 What we know is that video impacts the algorithms, the search 371 00:18:28,723 --> 00:18:32,873 algorithms, for all the major retailers on the digital marketplace. 372 00:18:33,323 --> 00:18:38,873 So having video on your PDP page will help you capture some organic search. 373 00:18:39,123 --> 00:18:45,833 So you're gonna need some video somewhere to skincare product. 374 00:18:46,048 --> 00:18:48,758 Yours is one of the first they see. 375 00:18:49,378 --> 00:18:54,708 That being said, we do see tons of research and take it for what it's 376 00:18:54,708 --> 00:18:59,248 worth, but consumers engage better with video than with stills because 377 00:18:59,248 --> 00:19:04,118 it's easier for them to learn more about the product quicker, right? 378 00:19:04,338 --> 00:19:08,098 So if you were to do a video, user generated video is really 379 00:19:08,098 --> 00:19:11,398 popular in certain demographics of someone trying your product, 380 00:19:11,398 --> 00:19:12,628 showing how to use your product. 381 00:19:13,008 --> 00:19:15,388 That's really key, especially in skin care. 382 00:19:15,608 --> 00:19:17,448 Anecdotally, I know that's a huge. 383 00:19:18,148 --> 00:19:20,608 A huge thing is making sure people are using the product in 384 00:19:20,608 --> 00:19:24,988 the proper way and those product usage videos are very popular. 385 00:19:25,478 --> 00:19:29,368 And you can also look at it as amortizing your assets because if you're creating 386 00:19:29,368 --> 00:19:35,308 a video for social, potentially, you can use it or adapt it for the PDP page 387 00:19:35,328 --> 00:19:41,098 as well and really maximize your spend across different platforms in that way. 388 00:19:41,618 --> 00:19:45,038 But at a net level, you gotta do some video because you're 389 00:19:45,038 --> 00:19:46,508 never gonna show up in search. 390 00:19:46,698 --> 00:19:52,358 Google searches are now actually pulling videos from Amazon PDP pages. 391 00:19:52,758 --> 00:19:58,708 So it's super important to find your consumer to have some video on that page. 392 00:19:58,918 --> 00:20:02,823 That being said, when the consumer's on that page, We see data every day that 393 00:20:02,823 --> 00:20:04,523 they prefer to engage with a video. 394 00:20:05,063 --> 00:20:08,563 And what that video can do is, demonstrate the product, highlight 395 00:20:08,563 --> 00:20:13,863 features of the product show, demonstrate how actually you would use it or 396 00:20:13,863 --> 00:20:15,653 work it into your skincare routine. 397 00:20:15,853 --> 00:20:17,503 And these don't have to be super complicated. 398 00:20:17,513 --> 00:20:20,433 You don't have to go look for, a supermodel and, set 399 00:20:20,433 --> 00:20:21,533 this on a beach somewhere. 400 00:20:21,543 --> 00:20:25,133 Like it, it can just be very organic to your brand. 401 00:20:25,873 --> 00:20:29,943 15 seconds, 20 seconds hey, here's, a moisturizer we're using today or 402 00:20:30,503 --> 00:20:36,683 whatever the demonstration might be, but it is really important to 403 00:20:36,683 --> 00:20:37,963 have that as part of your plan. 404 00:20:38,923 --> 00:20:39,583 That's really good. 405 00:20:39,973 --> 00:20:40,673 That's really good. 406 00:20:40,673 --> 00:20:42,953 So I've got some video ideas there. 407 00:20:43,193 --> 00:20:47,636 Just for the, for those listening that might not know, Ilene just explain 408 00:20:47,636 --> 00:20:50,203 what you mean when you say PDP. 409 00:20:51,113 --> 00:20:51,383 Sorry. 410 00:20:51,383 --> 00:20:53,503 PDP is your product description page. 411 00:20:53,863 --> 00:20:56,573 So if you're on Amazon buying. 412 00:20:57,433 --> 00:21:03,653 Face wash, the page that has a product you might be looking at often has 413 00:21:03,783 --> 00:21:07,163 bullets and copy describing that product. 414 00:21:07,353 --> 00:21:10,493 And then on the left of the main image, you'll see these smaller images that 415 00:21:10,493 --> 00:21:12,183 you can click on for more information. 416 00:21:12,183 --> 00:21:13,683 That's also where you could see a video. 417 00:21:14,513 --> 00:21:19,643 So your product description page, that PDP page, whether it's on your own website, 418 00:21:19,643 --> 00:21:24,643 whether it's on a Shopify website, or whether it's on a retailer like Amazon or 419 00:21:24,643 --> 00:21:30,998 Walmart or whomever, That is where your product really needs to shine and make 420 00:21:30,998 --> 00:21:33,508 sure it's communicating, in all points. 421 00:21:33,518 --> 00:21:36,688 Some people might look at the bullets and not look at the video, every 422 00:21:36,688 --> 00:21:41,988 touch point you have to use on those pages needs to be very clear product 423 00:21:42,128 --> 00:21:44,038 benefits and features communication. 424 00:21:44,458 --> 00:21:45,838 Yeah, no I totally agree. 425 00:21:46,138 --> 00:21:46,968 And I, it's. 426 00:21:48,238 --> 00:21:53,288 I'm curious, do you have an opinion on, so if I'm thinking back to earlier on today, 427 00:21:53,288 --> 00:21:59,278 I was on the Amazon website I was looking at a product, a diesel heater, bizarrely I 428 00:21:59,548 --> 00:22:03,178 won't explain why, it's just a very boring story, but I was looking at a diesel 429 00:22:03,188 --> 00:22:08,888 heater on, a diesel heater on Amazon, and there was like seven photos and a 430 00:22:08,888 --> 00:22:10,448 video, and I'm listening to you talk. 431 00:22:10,458 --> 00:22:12,618 The first thing I did was I just literally go straight to 432 00:22:12,628 --> 00:22:13,998 the video and watch it, right? 433 00:22:13,998 --> 00:22:18,808 It's like a minute long video showing me how to install the said diesel heater 434 00:22:18,808 --> 00:22:20,418 and how easy it is for me to do that. 435 00:22:20,418 --> 00:22:21,258 So I'm like, okay, cool. 436 00:22:22,488 --> 00:22:25,338 And I've got all that with inside of a few seconds of just watching the video. 437 00:22:25,728 --> 00:22:32,928 But thinking back to it, the video itself is embedded into Amazon's ecosystem. 438 00:22:32,928 --> 00:22:34,988 It didn't take me to a YouTube video. 439 00:22:35,618 --> 00:22:37,868 It didn't have a pop up with a YouTube video in. 440 00:22:38,448 --> 00:22:40,118 Is that important? 441 00:22:40,188 --> 00:22:43,608 Amazon must be doing it for a reason or does it, if you're just starting out, 442 00:22:43,638 --> 00:22:45,678 an embed from YouTube is just as good. 443 00:22:45,728 --> 00:22:46,868 I'm curious as you thought on this. 444 00:22:47,438 --> 00:22:49,838 That's a really good insight that you uncovered. 445 00:22:49,838 --> 00:22:52,488 Amazon does not allow you to link out to any other site. 446 00:22:52,528 --> 00:22:53,648 So you don't have a choice. 447 00:22:53,788 --> 00:22:57,378 If you're listing on Amazon, you have to upload that video, as part 448 00:22:57,378 --> 00:23:00,128 of their vendor central product page. 449 00:23:00,828 --> 00:23:02,578 In general, the fewer clicks. 450 00:23:03,073 --> 00:23:07,913 And, redirects a consumer has in their journey to purchase the better, right? 451 00:23:07,933 --> 00:23:09,713 Because you're going to lose them somewhere along the way. 452 00:23:09,993 --> 00:23:12,633 So wherever possible, embed it. 453 00:23:12,943 --> 00:23:16,963 If you need to click it out to a YouTube it's better than not, but 454 00:23:17,113 --> 00:23:18,793 embedding it is your first choice. 455 00:23:20,583 --> 00:23:21,063 Very good. 456 00:23:21,853 --> 00:23:24,283 So I've, okay, so I've got my brand. 457 00:23:24,283 --> 00:23:27,203 I've got some really nice photographs of my skincare product. 458 00:23:27,263 --> 00:23:29,973 I've got some videos showing how to apply it. 459 00:23:30,478 --> 00:23:33,308 Just talking about maybe some of the features of it, why it's, some of the 460 00:23:33,318 --> 00:23:35,678 things that you need to think about when using it, et cetera, et cetera. 461 00:23:35,978 --> 00:23:38,608 And I've done all that within sort of 15, 20 seconds. 462 00:23:38,628 --> 00:23:42,058 I say I, there's no way I'm doing that video, Ilene, because 463 00:23:42,058 --> 00:23:43,468 I'm not my target market. 464 00:23:43,518 --> 00:23:44,348 So I get that. 465 00:23:44,848 --> 00:23:47,908 I don't think ladies will want to see, the white bearded man 466 00:23:47,978 --> 00:23:49,258 just applying this to his face. 467 00:23:49,338 --> 00:23:49,838 Maybe they would. 468 00:23:49,838 --> 00:23:50,068 I don't know. 469 00:23:50,168 --> 00:23:51,038 Maybe I'm misjudging. 470 00:23:51,038 --> 00:23:51,848 I should test it, perhaps. 471 00:23:51,848 --> 00:23:53,828 So what else do I need to be thinking about? 472 00:23:54,508 --> 00:23:58,108 I think there's a real shift and we see it with major brands as 473 00:23:58,108 --> 00:23:59,968 well as emerging brands, right? 474 00:23:59,978 --> 00:24:03,608 It's like really understanding I think that your digital marketplace 475 00:24:03,618 --> 00:24:06,628 strategy, and by that how you're representing your product on your 476 00:24:06,628 --> 00:24:08,788 website or on the Amazons of the world. 477 00:24:09,268 --> 00:24:13,948 It has to be as thoughtful and cohesive as the rest of your marketing strategy. 478 00:24:14,288 --> 00:24:18,888 It's still a bit of an also brand and it surprises me every day because, 479 00:24:18,948 --> 00:24:20,558 we're all buying stuff online. 480 00:24:20,558 --> 00:24:22,548 Like, how can it be a second thought? 481 00:24:22,938 --> 00:24:25,658 So it needs to be part of your overall marketing plan. 482 00:24:25,658 --> 00:24:27,488 The consumer messaging needs to be. 483 00:24:27,933 --> 00:24:31,903 Hide into your consumer messaging in anything else you're doing. 484 00:24:32,093 --> 00:24:35,233 The look and feel, as we said, the style down to the font you use in 485 00:24:35,233 --> 00:24:39,383 your Chiron, if you're, putting benefits on screen, it all needs to 486 00:24:39,403 --> 00:24:45,403 tell the full brand story cohesively and work with rest of your brand. 487 00:24:45,783 --> 00:24:46,973 And that's super important. 488 00:24:47,003 --> 00:24:47,903 That is a big mess, I find. 489 00:24:47,903 --> 00:24:53,623 People are still looking at this content as like oh, yeah, maybe I 490 00:24:53,623 --> 00:24:54,383 will throw this upon our website or throw it up on our Shopify store. 491 00:24:54,583 --> 00:24:59,173 No, it's not good enough anymore, you can't do that. 492 00:24:59,173 --> 00:25:06,973 If you start from that position of, here's my marketing plan, here's what, 493 00:25:06,993 --> 00:25:11,903 our key product benefits are, what our visual language, look and feel of our 494 00:25:11,903 --> 00:25:15,193 brand is, the packaging all relates into that, obviously, anything else 495 00:25:15,193 --> 00:25:18,303 you might be doing, if you're buying digital banners, if you're doing social, 496 00:25:18,793 --> 00:25:22,743 it all has to work together, and so if you take that approach when you come 497 00:25:22,743 --> 00:25:28,253 into how you design your page, You're already, many steps ahead of most. 498 00:25:28,593 --> 00:25:34,673 And I think you just always need to, focus on what you control, which is maximize 499 00:25:34,703 --> 00:25:41,283 the SEO opportunities, whether it's in the title, the bullets, the keywords 500 00:25:41,283 --> 00:25:47,003 you're using in the actual product descriptions, as well as backend keywords. 501 00:25:47,493 --> 00:25:49,893 You want to make sure you're capturing organic search. 502 00:25:49,893 --> 00:25:53,328 It's You're leaving money on the table if you're not and it's easy enough to do. 503 00:25:53,758 --> 00:25:56,308 So you want the cohesive overall strategy. 504 00:25:56,308 --> 00:25:58,888 You want to maximize your keyword. 505 00:25:59,173 --> 00:26:02,213 Optimization from your titles through to your copy. 506 00:26:02,523 --> 00:26:05,883 And then you want to design the creative to make sure that you're 507 00:26:05,903 --> 00:26:10,843 picking up on the communication points can see consumers need to know to 508 00:26:10,843 --> 00:26:12,273 have confidence in their purchase. 509 00:26:12,743 --> 00:26:17,713 So whatever you do on your product page in your tiles or in your video has to 510 00:26:17,713 --> 00:26:22,583 have that top line thought of okay, we know when we went out to test if this 511 00:26:22,593 --> 00:26:27,733 product was viable, that consumers were really excited about XYZ and really asking 512 00:26:27,733 --> 00:26:31,963 about then you want to make sure that you're commuting those, communicating 513 00:26:31,963 --> 00:26:36,683 those things very clearly on the page, in the visuals and in the copy. 514 00:26:37,083 --> 00:26:40,373 So the whole point of your page is to make sure that the consumer 515 00:26:40,373 --> 00:26:41,703 knows what they're going to buy. 516 00:26:42,133 --> 00:26:43,413 And then it's happy with it. 517 00:26:43,673 --> 00:26:48,133 We've worked with an auto brand that had a gigantic problem because they're the 518 00:26:48,133 --> 00:26:54,033 mechanics that were ordering parts from them would always order two or three 519 00:26:54,263 --> 00:26:59,133 because they were not sure if it was going to be the right thing that they needed. 520 00:26:59,593 --> 00:27:00,223 So what happened? 521 00:27:00,723 --> 00:27:02,303 What happens when they get two or three? 522 00:27:02,303 --> 00:27:03,393 They find the one that works. 523 00:27:03,393 --> 00:27:04,503 And what happens to the other two? 524 00:27:04,553 --> 00:27:06,633 They have to bring it back to the store. 525 00:27:06,993 --> 00:27:11,663 Somebody has to collect it, catalog it, get it back out to sale. 526 00:27:11,693 --> 00:27:15,683 And the cost of all that was enormous, right? 527 00:27:15,953 --> 00:27:20,513 So obviously you're building consumer loyalty by having consumers get 528 00:27:20,513 --> 00:27:23,983 what they think they're getting and you're avoiding the cost of returns. 529 00:27:24,273 --> 00:27:27,873 which is significant, especially for a small business. 530 00:27:28,073 --> 00:27:31,063 You don't want someone sending something back to you saying I thought 531 00:27:31,063 --> 00:27:35,483 it was a travel size and it's, it's the mega or whatever the case might. 532 00:27:36,093 --> 00:27:41,513 The point being, consumers need to know and understand what they're getting 533 00:27:41,823 --> 00:27:43,603 and have confidence in that purchase. 534 00:27:43,603 --> 00:27:46,633 So when it comes to them, the reviews they give you, which are 535 00:27:46,633 --> 00:27:49,543 extremely important, are positive. 536 00:27:49,653 --> 00:27:52,423 This is what they thought they were getting and they're happy with it, right? 537 00:27:52,443 --> 00:27:55,133 Nobody likes to be like, oh, this isn't what I ordered. 538 00:27:55,143 --> 00:27:56,763 How many reviews like that have you seen? 539 00:27:57,023 --> 00:27:58,993 I thought the texture was going to be thicker. 540 00:27:59,003 --> 00:28:03,578 I thought You know, I've used it on dry skin, but my skin, it says now 541 00:28:03,578 --> 00:28:09,078 it says oily skin, like you need to think through what your consumer 542 00:28:09,118 --> 00:28:15,078 research strategy you've used to develop this product tells you about 543 00:28:15,078 --> 00:28:19,088 your consumer and make sure that's reflected in the communication points. 544 00:28:19,838 --> 00:28:20,448 Love that. 545 00:28:21,068 --> 00:28:21,338 Love that. 546 00:28:21,368 --> 00:28:24,948 I'm just, as you're talking, I'm remembering with our supplement business, 547 00:28:25,578 --> 00:28:29,898 we, I remember we put on the site, the measurements of the supplements, right? 548 00:28:29,898 --> 00:28:32,808 Cause some of them, some supplements you take can be actually be quite big. 549 00:28:33,738 --> 00:28:35,228 And it was a common question. 550 00:28:35,228 --> 00:28:38,008 So we're like let's put on the website, the measurements of the supplement. 551 00:28:38,018 --> 00:28:40,908 So this supplement is whatever, 17 millimeters tall. 552 00:28:41,588 --> 00:28:44,398 The problem that we ran into and what I think you've just addressed 553 00:28:44,398 --> 00:28:45,618 there, Ilene, is actually. 554 00:28:46,248 --> 00:28:47,668 We had the right information. 555 00:28:47,668 --> 00:28:49,338 It was just presented in the wrong way. 556 00:28:49,758 --> 00:28:53,768 So you might not understand what 17 millimeters is, but you might 557 00:28:53,768 --> 00:28:58,098 understand the height of a, I don't know, a 10 P piece if you're 558 00:28:58,098 --> 00:29:00,148 in the UK or a 25 cent piece. 559 00:29:00,148 --> 00:29:04,098 If you're in the States, you might be able to do that, but, and I 560 00:29:04,218 --> 00:29:06,558 think this is one of the things that Apple did very well, wasn't it? 561 00:29:06,558 --> 00:29:06,968 With the iPod. 562 00:29:07,038 --> 00:29:08,008 It's what they're famed for. 563 00:29:08,028 --> 00:29:11,038 10, 000 songs in your pocket kind of thing, rather than 564 00:29:11,038 --> 00:29:12,508 a three gigabyte hard drive. 565 00:29:13,988 --> 00:29:17,778 So in terms of how they communicate it, actually that became 566 00:29:19,168 --> 00:29:20,478 as, as important, wasn't it? 567 00:29:20,488 --> 00:29:23,818 So you've got to communicate all the features, the benefits, you've got to 568 00:29:23,828 --> 00:29:28,768 answer the questions that consumers have in their mind on your pages but 569 00:29:28,768 --> 00:29:31,968 you've got to do it in a way that actually makes sense to them, right? 570 00:29:33,213 --> 00:29:35,603 So we saw crazy success. 571 00:29:35,613 --> 00:29:39,923 We were doing a product page for a product that came in a lot of different sizes. 572 00:29:39,923 --> 00:29:43,543 It's like the brick size or the pouch size or this or that. 573 00:29:43,833 --> 00:29:50,128 When we put the product in scale on a kitchen counter next to And or something 574 00:29:50,128 --> 00:29:51,588 that you could understand the scale. 575 00:29:52,278 --> 00:29:58,258 We saw a lift in conversion, greater than 20 percent just by making sure the 576 00:29:58,258 --> 00:30:02,908 consumer understood what this product looks like compared to that product. 577 00:30:02,938 --> 00:30:04,758 They really understood what they were getting. 578 00:30:04,788 --> 00:30:05,858 They could anticipate it. 579 00:30:05,858 --> 00:30:07,488 Just like you're saying with the vitamin, like with the 580 00:30:07,488 --> 00:30:09,388 vitamin size, that's a great. 581 00:30:09,633 --> 00:30:13,318 It's a great call out because it speaks to exactly what we're talking about here, 582 00:30:13,318 --> 00:30:15,898 which is like making sure the consumer knows exactly what they're getting. 583 00:30:15,898 --> 00:30:19,748 If somebody can't swallow a big pill, they're going to send that back to 584 00:30:19,748 --> 00:30:23,628 you or not buy it from you again and, be annoyed that they didn't get it 585 00:30:23,628 --> 00:30:25,838 right the first time because they were probably waiting to take that supplement. 586 00:30:26,058 --> 00:30:30,528 You lose all kinds of traction and confidence in addition to the cost of 587 00:30:31,038 --> 00:30:33,168 having to take that back and refunding. 588 00:30:33,568 --> 00:30:36,308 So the more specific you can be, and in a clever way, of 589 00:30:36,308 --> 00:30:37,838 course, like that, exactly that. 590 00:30:37,888 --> 00:30:39,568 Yeah, the Apple example is great. 591 00:30:39,568 --> 00:30:44,058 They do so many things so well, the rest of us are, always in awe, we 592 00:30:44,058 --> 00:30:47,548 play around a lot with serving size, if you say something is like 1. 593 00:30:47,548 --> 00:30:49,808 6 ounces, what does that mean to anybody? 594 00:30:49,858 --> 00:30:53,438 It's better if you tell them how many average servings that could be, and then 595 00:30:53,438 --> 00:30:56,208 you show them what an average serving looks like, because a serving for you 596 00:30:56,208 --> 00:31:01,038 might feel different than a serving for me, so getting really into that granular 597 00:31:01,038 --> 00:31:03,188 level, but in a way that is on brand. 598 00:31:03,863 --> 00:31:06,878 With the visuals and you know how you're actually communicating them. 599 00:31:08,088 --> 00:31:09,918 Yeah it's really powerful point, isn't it? 600 00:31:09,968 --> 00:31:13,928 And so you are actually using this content in effect, whether it's 601 00:31:13,928 --> 00:31:18,448 video, whether it's written text, to overcome every single objection. 602 00:31:18,453 --> 00:31:22,538 Maybe that's in a consumer's mind, but at the same time, educate them 603 00:31:22,828 --> 00:31:24,358 to what it is they're gonna get. 604 00:31:24,358 --> 00:31:27,338 So when they get it, there's no. 605 00:31:28,808 --> 00:31:31,018 hidden surprises in a bad way, right? 606 00:31:31,178 --> 00:31:32,678 It's this is not unexpected. 607 00:31:32,698 --> 00:31:33,968 You might want to do something. 608 00:31:34,398 --> 00:31:35,628 There's that phrase, isn't there? 609 00:31:35,628 --> 00:31:37,368 You sell the steak, but deliver the sizzle. 610 00:31:37,438 --> 00:31:42,068 You might want to deliver a good surprise, but they're not caught out in a bad way. 611 00:31:42,068 --> 00:31:44,238 And I think that's the essence of what you're trying to say, right? 612 00:31:45,368 --> 00:31:49,238 Yeah, I agree with all of that, but I think also to add onto that, you want to 613 00:31:49,238 --> 00:31:52,778 inspire you want to, build brand loyalty. 614 00:31:53,048 --> 00:31:56,418 You want whatever's unique about your brand, the tonality, 615 00:31:56,418 --> 00:31:58,718 the language, the, spirit. 616 00:31:59,078 --> 00:32:02,618 and you want to inspire usage occasions. 617 00:32:02,808 --> 00:32:09,768 Just for example, if you were selling your skincare product, you 618 00:32:09,768 --> 00:32:12,109 want us to be something a little bit aspirational, that one consumer 619 00:32:12,109 --> 00:32:12,129 telling to another consumer about. 620 00:32:12,129 --> 00:32:20,048 Or gives them ideas on how to Uses up the container faster. 621 00:32:20,048 --> 00:32:22,568 You need this morning, noon at night, or whatever it might be. 622 00:32:22,568 --> 00:32:25,958 In the case of food, since we do a lot of food, we like to show different usage 623 00:32:25,958 --> 00:32:30,163 occasions, different , different recipe usages that you might not have thought 624 00:32:30,168 --> 00:32:34,423 of, because we know that consumers are always looking for recipe inspiration, so 625 00:32:34,423 --> 00:32:35,653 it's oh, I didn't know I could use this. 626 00:32:36,353 --> 00:32:37,913 To make something like that sounds really good. 627 00:32:37,913 --> 00:32:42,683 And then you have a consumer needing it more often because they're using it more. 628 00:32:43,193 --> 00:32:45,533 So there's always a little bit of the aspirational aspect. 629 00:32:45,533 --> 00:32:49,283 We want to be really practical and pragmatic and ensure everything you 630 00:32:49,283 --> 00:32:53,353 just said that the consumer knows and what they're buying is happy 631 00:32:53,353 --> 00:32:54,883 and satisfied when they get it. 632 00:32:54,883 --> 00:32:59,123 But you also want to have a little surprise and delight slash inspirational 633 00:32:59,373 --> 00:33:01,273 aspect to what you're doing to help. 634 00:33:01,713 --> 00:33:04,423 Help continue the sales and inspire the consumers. 635 00:33:05,063 --> 00:33:06,393 Who do you see doing that? 636 00:33:06,443 --> 00:33:07,253 I'm really curious. 637 00:33:07,763 --> 00:33:10,773 There's people who are doing it well in different ways, right? 638 00:33:10,783 --> 00:33:15,243 Like we, we do so much content, we get lost in what we do, but we're 639 00:33:15,243 --> 00:33:18,423 always trying to see who else is out there doing things, I think. 640 00:33:20,493 --> 00:33:21,063 It depends. 641 00:33:21,083 --> 00:33:24,263 You have to give me a category because it's like one of those 642 00:33:24,323 --> 00:33:25,553 questions that are so broad. 643 00:33:25,553 --> 00:33:28,277 I'm like scanning my mind for everything I've looked at recently. 644 00:33:28,277 --> 00:33:33,667 Like in coffee, I think Dunkin Donuts has done some nice things on their PDP pages. 645 00:33:33,667 --> 00:33:35,688 They have a lot of seasonality. 646 00:33:36,098 --> 00:33:37,688 Which is something that's really great. 647 00:33:37,688 --> 00:33:42,518 Consumers respond to that, the, it brings to mind, to diverge from your question 648 00:33:42,518 --> 00:33:46,508 for one second, the other thing to keep in mind when your content is, you can't 649 00:33:46,508 --> 00:33:51,373 just set it and leave it there for three years, it needs to be refreshed. 650 00:33:52,143 --> 00:33:52,433 Yeah. 651 00:33:52,503 --> 00:33:56,113 You have to keep it fresh and like Dunkin Donuts is great at the seasonality. 652 00:33:56,373 --> 00:34:00,173 Most brands can't afford to seasonally update everything about all their content, 653 00:34:00,183 --> 00:34:04,993 but perhaps you can update some keywords to capture that search or you can have one 654 00:34:04,993 --> 00:34:10,333 image that is a usage occasion related to a holiday, but you want, You're going to 655 00:34:10,333 --> 00:34:15,393 lose traction in the algorithms as well as appear too generic to your customers 656 00:34:15,443 --> 00:34:18,333 if you're not doing some regular refresh. 657 00:34:18,853 --> 00:34:20,963 And then people always ask me like how often should we refresh? 658 00:34:20,963 --> 00:34:22,593 It's how often can you afford to refresh? 659 00:34:22,593 --> 00:34:23,113 I don't know. 660 00:34:23,113 --> 00:34:28,643 At least once a year but if you're really trying to make a stand with a new 661 00:34:28,653 --> 00:34:33,023 product, you should be updating those keywords, every quarter at the least. 662 00:34:34,208 --> 00:34:35,518 Yeah, super powerful. 663 00:34:37,108 --> 00:34:37,708 I love that. 664 00:34:37,718 --> 00:34:41,178 So I, and I'm actually, as you're talking, I'm thinking, oh, there's probably 665 00:34:41,178 --> 00:34:43,868 one or two things I need to refresh on our site, because it's probably 666 00:34:43,868 --> 00:34:46,298 been there for a couple of years. 667 00:34:46,298 --> 00:34:48,958 Just as you're talking, I'm going yes, I'm guilty, Your Honour. 668 00:34:48,998 --> 00:34:50,058 Guilty as charged. 669 00:34:50,748 --> 00:34:52,633 There's a few things we need to resolve there. 670 00:34:53,293 --> 00:34:57,713 Listen, I'm aware of time and it is rapidly rapidly escaping from us. 671 00:34:58,033 --> 00:35:01,683 And I feel like we're just getting going here but super useful some 672 00:35:01,683 --> 00:35:04,133 really good ideas for me actually on the skincare brand already. 673 00:35:04,773 --> 00:35:07,673 If people want to reach out to you, if they want to connect with you, 674 00:35:07,673 --> 00:35:09,353 what's the best way to do that? 675 00:35:09,353 --> 00:35:15,123 Yeah, feel free to check out our website, which is imaginarycontent. 676 00:35:15,133 --> 00:35:15,743 com. 677 00:35:16,063 --> 00:35:21,843 You could always reach out and email me directly, Ilene@imaginarycontent.com 678 00:35:22,033 --> 00:35:23,313 and this was so fun. 679 00:35:23,333 --> 00:35:26,213 Actually, I feel like maybe a part two sometime in our future 680 00:35:26,303 --> 00:35:28,083 because we did just get started. 681 00:35:28,603 --> 00:35:29,193 We really did. 682 00:35:29,193 --> 00:35:30,243 We should do it in the new year. 683 00:35:30,243 --> 00:35:32,163 We should, at the time of recording it's Christmas. 684 00:35:32,163 --> 00:35:35,393 I'm not sure when this comes out, but yeah we'll get set up on that. 685 00:35:35,393 --> 00:35:36,623 We'll do it like a part two. 686 00:35:36,763 --> 00:35:38,013 We would do, this is the warmup. 687 00:35:38,568 --> 00:35:39,878 Thank you so much for having me. 688 00:35:39,878 --> 00:35:40,888 This has been a lot of fun. 689 00:35:40,888 --> 00:35:42,498 I really appreciate the conversation. 690 00:35:42,558 --> 00:35:43,558 Oh, no, it's been great. 691 00:35:43,558 --> 00:35:44,698 And thanks for your insight. 692 00:35:44,698 --> 00:35:46,408 And we'll definitely get you on. 693 00:35:46,408 --> 00:35:49,638 And I'm going to pick your brain some more about what we're trying to do. 694 00:35:49,638 --> 00:35:52,038 So it's a beautiful thing. 695 00:35:52,118 --> 00:35:52,968 A beautiful thing. 696 00:35:53,158 --> 00:35:57,308 Ilene, thank you so much for joining us here on the eCommerce Podcast. 697 00:35:57,598 --> 00:35:58,818 What an absolute legend. 698 00:35:58,818 --> 00:36:00,368 Do make sure you reach out to Ilene. 699 00:36:01,193 --> 00:36:01,863 And see what they're doing. 700 00:36:01,883 --> 00:36:02,653 The website's awesome. 701 00:36:02,653 --> 00:36:04,763 Actually, I was on it earlier thinking that's really clever. 702 00:36:05,053 --> 00:36:06,053 That's really clever. 703 00:36:06,343 --> 00:36:09,193 There's a few ideas you can definitely steal just off of the website. 704 00:36:09,193 --> 00:36:12,653 No, dude, I think when people steal stuff, it's the highest form of compliment. 705 00:36:13,153 --> 00:36:13,473 What is it? 706 00:36:13,513 --> 00:36:15,923 Imitation's the highest form of compliment or something like that. 707 00:36:15,923 --> 00:36:16,853 Like a flattery. 708 00:36:16,853 --> 00:36:17,253 Yeah, exactly. 709 00:36:17,693 --> 00:36:18,333 Something like that. 710 00:36:18,333 --> 00:36:18,553 Yeah. 711 00:36:19,053 --> 00:36:19,963 But do check it out. 712 00:36:19,983 --> 00:36:25,473 So also do make sure you check out today's show, sponsor the eCommerce cohort. 713 00:36:25,473 --> 00:36:26,763 com come and have a look. 714 00:36:26,773 --> 00:36:29,123 If you've not been there already, come and see what it's all about. 715 00:36:29,123 --> 00:36:30,773 We'd love to see you in that group. 716 00:36:31,053 --> 00:36:33,973 Also be sure to follow the eCommerce podcast, wherever you get your podcast 717 00:36:34,153 --> 00:36:36,863 from, because of course we have yet more great conversations lined up. 718 00:36:37,013 --> 00:36:38,323 I don't want you to miss any of them. 719 00:36:39,308 --> 00:36:42,788 And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. 720 00:36:42,798 --> 00:36:43,998 You are awesome. 721 00:36:43,998 --> 00:36:45,468 Yes, you are created awesome. 722 00:36:45,798 --> 00:36:47,688 It's just a burden you have to bear. 723 00:36:47,968 --> 00:36:48,878 Ilene's got to bear it. 724 00:36:49,148 --> 00:36:49,938 I've got to bear it. 725 00:36:50,418 --> 00:36:51,478 You've got to bear it as well. 726 00:36:51,898 --> 00:36:54,928 Now the eCommerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 727 00:36:54,948 --> 00:36:59,038 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 728 00:36:59,078 --> 00:37:03,678 And the wonderful team that makes this show possible includes the majestic 729 00:37:03,688 --> 00:37:05,958 Sadaf Beynon and Tanya Hutsuliak. 730 00:37:05,978 --> 00:37:08,958 And also our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson. 731 00:37:09,448 --> 00:37:12,218 And as I said, if you would like to read the notes or the transcripts, 732 00:37:12,218 --> 00:37:15,458 you can get them for free on the website at EcommercePodcast. 733 00:37:16,248 --> 00:37:18,858 net, which incidentally is where you can sign up to the newsletter. 734 00:37:19,098 --> 00:37:20,628 if you haven't done so already. 735 00:37:21,023 --> 00:37:23,433 Because if you're on the newsletter, all of this stuff comes straight to 736 00:37:23,433 --> 00:37:25,073 your inbox every week automatically. 737 00:37:25,093 --> 00:37:25,893 It's a beautiful thing. 738 00:37:25,923 --> 00:37:27,963 So check it out at ecommercepodcast. 739 00:37:27,993 --> 00:37:28,383 net. 740 00:37:28,953 --> 00:37:31,503 So that is it for me. 741 00:37:31,563 --> 00:37:34,083 That is it from Ilene. 742 00:37:34,103 --> 00:37:36,903 Thank you so much for joining us. 743 00:37:36,933 --> 00:37:39,153 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 744 00:37:39,433 --> 00:37:40,343 I'll see you next time. 745 00:37:40,523 --> 00:37:41,173 Bye for now. 746 00:37:42,323 --> 00:37:42,733 Thank you.