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HR party of one is brought to you by

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Bernie portal joining me on HR party of

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one today is meline man A former HR

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party of one as a successful job search

0:12

coach and social media influencer meline

0:14

man has garnered an audience of Millions

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on her Channel self-made Millennial many

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of whom are the Millennials or the

0:22

younger Jen zers meline spoke at our

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most recent weekday with Bernie

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conference and in her session she shed

0:29

light on effects that digitization and

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social media have had on the workplace

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and how viral Trends transform workplace

0:37

discourse hope you enjoyed the interview

0:39

I know I did mine thank you so much for

Interview with Madeline Mann

0:42

joining us I really would love to dive

0:44

in and get to know a little bit about

0:45

you and really how you started in HR if

0:49

we think about kind of our first job is

0:51

the starting line of our career not all

0:54

the people in HR are started in HR so

Madeline’s HR Origin Story

0:57

talk to me about your HR story I thought

1:00

I was going to be journalist okay I

1:02

worked on a newspaper every Leading Lady

1:04

in every movie who has brain cells is a

1:07

journalist so I thought that's what I

1:08

was going to do and I worked at

1:11

newspaper and realized oo the pay

1:14

doesn't get much better and the the

1:16

number of roles are dwindling and I'd

1:18

have to live deadline to deadline so I

1:20

thought I have to find something else to

1:22

do with my career so I was really into

1:26

psychology that's what I studied in

1:27

school and it was something that I was

1:29

really naturally good at that and so I

1:30

just talked to everyone I found online

1:33

or connected to my network who had a

1:36

psychology degree and I said what did

1:37

you do with it and I talked to human

1:42

capital consultants and marketers and

1:45

advertisers and school psychologist

1:47

everything and then I finally met

1:49

someone who worked in human resources

1:51

and as she described what she did I said

1:54

that's what I want to do every day so I

1:57

went all in Full Tilt and I pursued an

2:00

HR career and it was the best decision I

2:03

could have made absolutely funny you

2:05

mentioned that because light bulb went

2:07

off of my head I have kind of a

2:09

psychology background I studied child

2:11

and family studies thought I wanted to

2:12

be a teacher but here I am so what

2:16

industry like what talk to me about your

“Building the Plane as it Flys”

2:18

first job like first day on the job as

2:20

HR so I have worked in the tech industry

2:24

okay almost exclusively and uh at mostly

2:28

growing grow stage companies so we're

2:31

hiring constantly going from several

2:33

hundred employees to several thousand

2:34

employees so I really caught that bug of

2:38

I like that HR department where we're

2:42

building the plane as it flies you know

2:44

we're just mixing the cake as it's in

2:46

the oven and we were just that was one

2:49

of the best things was being able to

2:52

impact what what are the policies what

2:56

are the programs all that and that's

2:58

what I could get from working in a grow

3:00

Stage Company so like startup culture

3:03

yes yeah definitely so in that industry

3:06

were you considered to be an HR party of

3:09

one were you managing everything at one

3:12

of my jobs I was brought in as the first

3:15

HR hire and I completely thought I was

3:18

in over my head I even though I had done

3:21

HR work I went out and bought a bunch of

3:23

HR for dummies books and stuff like that

3:26

just to say I don't want to screw this

3:28

up it was so much pressure but it was

3:31

also the greatest job I've ever had

3:33

because I got to work closely with the

3:36

CEO and other Executives and the board

3:37

of directors to build the type of

3:39

company that I always wanted to work for

3:41

yeah and that was extremely thrilling

3:44

gave me a tremendous amount of

3:46

confidence and really pav the path for

3:48

the rest of my career absolutely and I

3:51

definitely feel that too in my role it's

3:53

like energizing like you really want to

3:56

serve like being able to work across the

3:58

organization um but then also make a

4:01

direct impact to the people it it's

4:03

great yes I love that take me through

Making the Career Change

4:07

you're working for small to mediumsized

4:08

business startup Tech how did you land

4:12

where you are now so what happened was

4:16

when I was at HR party of one and

4:18

building the department and then

4:19

eventually building a team I had my

4:22

hands on everything so there wasn't a

4:24

promotion that was had or a job

4:28

candidate who was chosen or rejected

4:31

that I didn't have my paws on and that

4:35

Drew very interesting insights of there

4:38

are key things that certain

4:40

professionals can do to either get very

4:43

ahead in their careers or fall behind

4:45

and not land the job and with my

4:48

psychology background I was very precise

4:51

about what were those actions what were

4:53

those triggers what was leading to these

4:54

things and I would collect a lot of data

4:57

as well as a little bit of a DIY

5:00

psychologist and I would put that online

5:03

I would share it on YouTube and Linkedin

5:06

and people were hungry for this kind of

5:09

content because there were quite a few

5:12

career influencers thought leaders at

5:15

the time but they were saying a lot of

5:17

the things that were true 10 or 15 years

5:21

prior so it hadn't been updated and here

5:25

I was giving extremely specific

5:28

information about how to win in today's

5:30

market and it call like wildfire that's

5:33

amazing was this preco this was this I

5:35

got started around 2017 okay and how did

5:39

how did the pandemic change

5:41

things so or did it what was interesting

5:44

was so many people said wow now the

5:47

pandemic's hit meline you know you're on

5:48

all these platforms you're on Tik Tok

5:50

you're on YouTube you're on LinkedIn

5:51

your viewership must be going wild

5:54

actually what happened was viewership

5:56

did not go up in the

5:57

pandemic creators increased dramatically

6:01

in the pandemic so many more people were

6:03

at home with their phones realizing hey

6:07

I can say some things yeah and so

6:09

actually all of the social platforms got

6:12

so much more saturated during that time

6:14

so it was pretty demoralizing as a

6:16

Creator to say hey I was making such a

6:18

big impact and that was a bit foiled but

6:22

as far as the conversations that were

6:24

happening around the pandemic around

6:26

employment around HR that was

6:28

invigorating I going live constantly I

6:30

was giving people the live update I was

6:32

in an organization handling the HR

6:35

aspect dayto day and able to pass along

6:38

a lot of those insights to people when

6:40

they really needed answers so 2017 would

An Important Life Lesson

6:43

you say that was kind of your shift from

6:45

working in an organization and kind of

6:48

serving an organization to kind of

6:50

serving the job Seeker or were you still

6:52

working for an an organization at the

6:55

same time oh yes so this is this is life

6:58

lesson don't start a YouTube channel

7:00

then quit your job immediately I

7:02

definitely cuz it's a slow rule right

7:05

yeah and uh and so what I did is I think

7:09

I ultimately left my job in

7:11

2021 okay so I had been building that

7:14

for four years which really was it was

7:17

really building the foundation where to

7:19

the fact where I had such high demand

7:21

for my coaching and my courses to where

7:24

at a certain point it didn't make sense

7:25

to stay at my job even though I

7:27

absolutely loved it and anyone who asked

7:28

me I said oh no I'm going to stay at

7:30

this job forever I'm going to stay in

7:31

this profession forever but at a certain

7:33

point the demand got too big yeah and

Are Influencers Giving Bad Career Advice?

7:37

you know you mention during a specific

7:40

time there were so many more creators

7:42

joining the platform and you know we

7:45

actually have a episode on our Channel

7:47

talking about kind of how to identify

7:50

some red flags with some ticktockers

7:53

providing advice good good topic yeah so

7:57

I mean what advice could you Pro provide

7:59

there as far as like Tik tokers to trust

8:02

and not to trust cuz like I I feel like

8:05

I open the app and maybe it's my

8:08

algorithm but there's somebody giving me

8:10

advice for you know my professional

8:13

career but I can't say that um leaving

8:17

my job every year to make more money I

8:20

can't say that that's like the best

8:22

advice so the really tough part about

8:26

getting advice on Tik Tok and of course

8:29

give advice on Tik Tok so I I'm I'm I'm

8:31

in this yeah is that you're getting

8:34

advice in 60c Snippets roughly which

8:37

it's never going to apply to every

8:38

situation it's never going to apply to

8:40

every person so for example the example

8:41

you gave of moving jobs quickly I did a

8:44

full video on that about the issues

8:47

around that but also the people who are

8:49

doing it successfully look at what their

8:52

job titles are look at the companies

8:54

they've worked for that might not be

8:56

your career path and that might not be

8:58

your industry and your company size so

9:01

there was so much that when I did all

9:03

this research I said okay what this the

9:06

situation this is working for is not

9:08

necessarily a situation that most people

9:10

are in and so it can be very deceiving

9:14

especially I would say especially when

9:16

when a content creator is specifically

9:18

talking about their personal experience

9:20

because that's a data point of one

9:22

that's right yeah when you work in HR or

9:24

recruiting you have thousands of data

9:27

points of you're saying I'm reading

9:28

these resumes I'm will these

9:29

applications every day and here's what

9:31

I've derived from thousands of data

9:34

points but if it's someone saying I did

9:36

this and it worked for me I'm not saying

9:38

it's the wrong advice but tread lightly

9:41

yeah great great point there um because

9:44

yeah just one person's path is not

9:48

everyone's so completely understand that

9:50

you know this idea of shopping for jobs

9:53

and I love that idea um rather than you

9:56

know constantly chasing and and

9:58

submitting hundreds of applications and

10:01

um it's a tough job market right now um

10:04

but what advice can you give to the HR

10:06

parties of one who are looking for top

10:09

talent like what are the common mistakes

10:11

that you're seeing that they're making

10:13

that's keeping the good talent from

10:15

coming in absolutely I think that one of

Enforcing Best Practices in the Organization

10:20

the amazing roles that the HR party have

10:22

won has is enforcing best practices in

10:26

their organization they really are the

10:28

voice of reason and so being that

10:31

strength in the organization who says

10:34

hey let's get extremely clear about this

10:37

role because I that's what I'm seeing

10:38

with a lot of companies right now is

10:40

because they're a little bit nervous to

10:42

hire because maybe they don't have as

10:44

much headcount as they have had in

10:45

previous years they are a bit vague

10:49

about what they're looking for or

10:50

they're asking for everything and so

10:52

being that person who's standing up

10:53

saying hey let's build out this this

10:55

roll

10:56

scorecard this what you're asking for is

10:59

a unicorn candidate let's let's narrow

11:01

it down to what we must have and some of

11:03

the nice toes and really get clear about

11:06

what we want and that can really help to

11:10

make it so that that HR party of one can

11:14

more easily go through these

11:15

applications and be more precise but

11:18

also that we're not over rejecting

11:21

people who could have really great

11:23

potential in the role absolutely yeah is

11:26

there like a specific job board that you

11:29

find is better for the small businesses

11:33

because I find that like there are so

11:35

many jobs on LinkedIn but then you know

11:37

people have this notion about indeed

11:39

being more of a not as higher level

11:44

candidates going to indeed right yeah it

Job Boards

11:47

totally depends on your

11:49

industry there are certain job boards

11:54

that for some reason seems to attract

11:57

more of the people from that specific

11:59

industry or with people with higher

12:01

intention like I remember when I was

12:03

hiring I used to use Angel list a lot

12:06

which is good for growth stage companies

12:09

and all that and so that then targets

12:13

that right candidate and so I would say

12:16

that

12:17

unfortunately so platforms like LinkedIn

12:20

have made it so that you're able to

12:22

reach more people which I think is

12:23

wonderful so that's the plus the minus

12:25

is that the the easy apply makes it so

12:29

that it's actually encouraging people to

12:31

spam you most of these people who are

12:33

clicking easy apply are not reading the

12:36

job description yeah that's true and

12:37

you're paying per click so it really is

12:41

especially if you're if you have a

12:43

smaller recruiting budget it's not

12:46

really a great idea to go to these

12:48

massive job boards and sometimes if you

12:50

post on a smaller job board a lot of

12:52

these job boards will actually pick up

12:53

your job posting and post on theirs

12:55

absolutely for free so it's good to me

12:57

get it out there but then they'll pick

12:59

it up and and angelist never even heard

13:01

of it that's awesome there's so many

13:03

little ones like that um and it really

13:05

depends on your industry okay okay so

13:07

question some of the biggest changes in

13:09

regard to recruitment that you've seen

13:10

in the past couple years and then what

13:12

do you see moving

13:13

forward one thing I've seen that there's

Recruitment Trends & Challenges

13:16

a lot of recruiting departments that are

13:19

pretty Bare Bones right now recruiters

13:22

are a bit overworked right now and

13:24

they're getting a lot of flack for

13:26

you're not responding to people and all

13:27

of that that's so so true right but

13:30

really I mean these these departments

13:32

have been stripped down and these

13:33

recruiters are really have the weight of

13:35

the company on their backs and so not to

13:37

say that you can't respond to candidates

13:39

or whatnot but there is there is quite a

13:41

bit of pressure on them and so really

13:44

them working to to try to cut through

13:48

the noise because there's so much noise

13:50

also as well today in that with the use

13:54

of AI so many more job Seekers are

13:56

saying okay great I'll pop my resume

13:58

into a I it'll come up with a cover

14:01

letter it'll come up with a a tailored

14:03

resme I'm going to send it out and so

14:05

that has increased the clip of people

14:07

applying dramatically and so again then

14:11

that just LS to more noise that the

14:13

recruiters are

14:14

experiencing and so it's really a matter

14:17

of how do we then sift through the

14:21

people who don't actually want this role

14:22

aren't really qualified didn't really

14:23

read the job description from the people

14:25

who actually are very talented maybe

14:27

aren't as gifted when it comes to

14:29

presenting themselves in the job search

14:31

but that's a separate skill set from the

14:32

actual job they're going for so that's

14:34

really been a challenge I think for a

14:36

lot of recruiters is yeah cutting

14:38

through the noise and dealing with this

14:41

accelerated workload absolutely and then

Using AI to Sort Resumes

14:44

you know you mentioned an AI um what are

14:47

your thoughts about you know using AI to

14:51

sift through

14:53

rumes I did a very deep dive on this a

14:58

few months ago I ran a poll in LinkedIn

15:00

and I said does your company use an

15:04

applicant tracking system that sorts

15:06

resumés and when I say sorts I don't

15:08

mean knockout questions knockout

15:10

question is are you eligible to work in

15:12

the US yes no and if you say no if it's

15:15

required that you work in the US you get

15:17

knocked out I'm not talking about that

15:19

I'm talking about scanning the resume

15:21

for keywords and I there was there was

15:24

about 20% or so people who said yes it

15:27

does I then messaged every single person

15:29

who said yes and said tell me what is

15:32

the ATS you're using how do you use it

15:35

and I think at least half or or three

15:37

three fours of the group said oh I just

15:40

clicked a random thing like I don't

15:42

actually no it's not actually or it's

15:44

just knockout questions so it really I

15:46

had to get down to that very core of

15:47

people and yes there are people using

15:49

this but it's mostly sorting so at you

15:52

use the word sorting which is absolutely

15:55

exactly it is they're they're stack

15:57

ranking these resumés

15:59

and there when I talk to these people

16:02

who actually use it I think it's helpful

16:05

in some ways in that let's let's get

16:07

some semblance of help with sorting

16:10

things I think ultimately if there is

16:12

someone who is a bit more intentional I

16:15

actually think that's a really great

16:16

thing for them to appear higher though

16:19

they did say things like I would get to

16:21

kind of the bottom of the stack and

16:22

there was a resume down here that I

16:23

actually really liked and so what what

16:25

went wrong so that's actually a big part

16:29

of me educating job Seekers is when

16:32

folks go through my coaching they

16:34

realize oh wow like why am I getting so

16:37

many calls it's because I understand

16:40

what what these recruiters are typing in

16:42

I understand what they would put in ATS

16:44

and a lot of people don't realize I

16:45

think that they're these recruiters are

16:47

writing collaborative empathetic that's

16:50

not what they're writing no even though

16:52

that's that's on that's a that's a a

16:54

skill that they're asking for you must

16:56

collaborate you must be a great

16:58

communicator that's actually not what

16:59

they're searching for and so that's

17:02

that's something that a lot of job

17:03

Seekers don't realize yeah I feel like

17:06

as far as the soft skills go AI is not

17:09

able to identify or sort that they're

17:12

really looking for those keywords the

17:15

specific technology that they're have

17:17

experience with I would I'm not quite

17:20

there to a point where I would want um

17:23

something sorting these resumés like

17:25

with us being a smaller organization

17:27

culture and

17:29

um soft skills are so important to us

17:32

hiring the right person for our

17:34

organization is so important and also

17:37

just they don't have to have every

17:40

single bit of experience um we're really

17:43

just looking for someone that is

17:45

competitive aggressive and ready to take

17:47

on um projects and just be open to

17:52

change really can you share any insight

Gen Z vs. Millennials

17:54

into what sort of benefits or perks J

17:57

zers are looking for for versus

18:00

Millennials are looking for in their

18:01

next employer one thing that I'm

18:04

noticing especially with the discourse

18:08

going

18:09

online I as a millennial uh went into my

18:13

career with the expectation that working

18:16

long hours and being available some

18:19

evenings you know if something's urgent

18:22

is is a very normal part of working and

18:25

kind of we we kind of were built to have

18:27

this this uh work hard and and and you

18:32

know really Drive in your 20s and all

18:34

that kind of stuff mentality what we're

18:36

seeing from jenz is this push back of

18:39

saying work hours or work hours if you

18:42

are having me do work out of work hours

18:45

where's my compensation why was that not

18:48

delineated in my offer letter so there's

18:51

there's a lot more of a stricter saying

18:54

we need boundaries which is I think very

18:57

interesting to to see and um even we're

19:01

seeing actually legislation reflect this

19:04

as well Australia has a bill right now

19:06

that is looking to be passed where

19:08

companies can be fined if they penalize

19:12

it all their employees for not

19:15

responding outside of work hours so this

19:18

is something that's I think a a a a

19:22

throwback or or kind of a a a resistance

19:26

to this remote work culture that has

19:28

ultimately led to this always on

19:32

mentality remote

Remote vs. In-Office

19:34

work how do you feel about fully remote

19:37

versus fully in

19:39

office I think that you can be extremely

19:44

productive fully remote uh my team is

19:48

fully remote though we do meet up in

19:50

person as well I personally I thrive in

19:55

an inperson environment that is my

19:57

personality I loved working in offices

20:00

especially in the the the uptick of my

20:03

career that that you know first decade

20:06

or so being in office helped me to build

20:10

such deeper relationships I knew people

20:12

from across the business that I wouldn't

20:15

have had come come in contact with

20:17

otherwise because I was at the company

20:20

events or I was in the kitchen eating

20:23

lunch next to them or whatnot and so I

20:27

think that while

20:29

there's so many great things to be said

20:31

for remote

20:32

work if you haven't experienced in

20:35

person or if you it's been a while it's

20:38

easy to forget all of the positives I

20:41

completely agree and like being able to

20:43

like looking it in my HR career I would

20:46

not be where I am without having a

20:49

mentor I think having a mentor is so

20:52

important especially in HR um having

20:56

someone that has multiple years of

20:58

experience and and the thing about HR

21:00

you can't read a book and learn

21:02

everything it's all about experiences

21:04

what are you coming across and every day

21:07

is different last night your fireside

Cover Letters

21:09

chat you asked the question about cover

21:12

letters so are you Pro or con cover

21:17

letters what do you feel about is the

21:19

cover letter dead or should we continue

21:22

to be submitting those or the job Seeker

21:24

continue to be submitting cover letters

21:27

so we did ask the audience as well and

21:30

there was a overwhelming amount of

21:32

negativity to c letters which I totally

21:34

get yeah and it it's some I someone uh

21:38

in some meme called it fanfiction about

21:41

a company about like graveling to them

21:44

which I I can see how that could be the

21:46

perception but one of the things that

21:47

you brought up earlier was how uh at

21:51

Bernie portal you are are looking for

21:54

the full individual you're not

21:56

necessarily looking for do you check all

21:58

these B

21:59

you're saying what is your personality

22:02

what is your attitude what is your drive

22:05

and then do you have some skills to back

22:06

that up and if we're looking at small

22:09

and midsize

22:10

companies that is a lot of the way they

22:13

hire and so how do you know that about

22:15

someone how do you know that they have

22:18

that driver they have certain interests

22:20

maybe that's not reflected directly on

22:22

their resume now is the cover letter the

22:24

only way to convey those things no but

22:27

I've read so many cover letters where I

22:29

go whoa yeah that's really interesting

22:32

you actually have this amazing

22:33

connection to the business that I

22:36

wouldn't have noticed from your LinkedIn

22:38

profile or your resume and this actually

22:40

makes it the per makes you top of the

22:43

list whereas when I first WR rese you

22:45

were maybe middle of the list and so

22:48

that's why a cover letter can be really

22:49

great is especially for these lower

22:53

volume jobs such as a lot of companies

22:57

I've talked to who are really massive

22:59

thousands thousands of employees they

23:00

don't read cover letters very much you

23:02

don't have time exactly so it's really a

23:05

a matter of the context of where are you

23:07

going I like that and I I would say I'm

23:12

Pro cover letter yeah like you know

23:14

that's your your first impression to

23:17

like really kind of catapult your resume

23:20

forward and get somebody to actually

23:22

give you a call back rather than just

23:24

like get that email again like hey

23:26

thanks but no thanks

23:28

as a job Seeker how many interviews is

23:32

too many for like an organization like I

23:34

we have quite a lengthy interview

23:36

process but um what is The Sweet Spot

23:40

like in your opinion I think we've got

23:43

like you apply you do a dis assessment

23:46

you do a phone interview you come in you

23:48

meet with the panel you meet with our

23:50

CEO what do you think about that right

How Many Rounds of Interviews?

23:54

it so it does depend on the role uh I

23:57

would say as we get get especially more

23:59

senior and more senior it also might

24:02

extend what's really important

24:05

is especially that that scorecard for

24:09

the job of one thing that I'm noticing

24:11

that a lot of companies not all

24:13

companies who have really long processes

24:15

is that a lot of people are measuring

24:17

the same things over and over again

24:19

asking similar questions and what is

24:22

that interview process doing it's

24:23

getting Buy in from stakeholders it's

24:25

not actually evaluating this person

24:27

properly so it's so that everyone feels

24:29

good and they can give their sign off

24:31

but it's not actually systematically

24:34

evaluating this candidate from several

24:36

different angles and so your interview

24:38

process should be designed to where

24:42

every person in the interview debrief is

24:44

actually bringing a bit of a different

24:45

perspective so that you then have a

24:48

better whole picture because that's the

24:49

best use of time if everyone's measuring

24:51

the same three things 10 times well you

24:54

have a picture of you know about 30% of

24:57

that person right versus is the 100% H I

25:00

like that okay to wrap things up I would

What Motivates Madeline to Help Others

25:03

love to hear like what is your why like

25:06

why are you so passionate about helping

25:09

people in the job

25:10

Seeker I found my dream career and I

25:14

loved it I loved every day of it and

25:17

that is not the case for most people and

25:20

there are very few things like your job

25:24

that have such a deep impact on your

25:28

health

25:29

your your mentality your finances your

25:33

family life and so if you can get the

25:36

job right if you can get your career on

25:39

the right path that changes everything

25:42

and it completely lift this from your

25:44

shoulders so when I started putting

25:46

things out into the world and getting

25:47

these amazing results I said there's

25:49

nothing better I can do with my time

25:51

than continue to help people ah I love

25:53

that a huge thank you to meline for

Conclusion

25:57

coming on and sharing her journey

25:59

experiences and insight as an HR

26:02

professional I really enjoyed our

26:04

conversation if you'd like to hear more

26:06

from HR thought leaders like meline join

26:08

us for week t with Bernie

26:11

2025 more information on that coming

26:14

soon