You are listening to the we need to Talk About Oscar podcast.

And this is our conversation with Dido Montiel, director of Riffraff.

Probably the thing that got me excited about this in that sense, because I've always found family in my life, you know, through the punk rock scene growing up or a bunch of misfits that find each other.

And I always played in bands as a kid because I always think of bands as the family you're trying to build.

And usually it's pretty dysfunctional, too, so.

So I'm drawn to that idea of blood versus who you choose.

To begin with.

I believe the script is penned by John Paulowno, who, if we are talking big screen only, has written and directed.

So Small Engine Repair wrote Stronger, directed by David Carden Green.

And now Rif Raff.

How did the project find you?

Well, you know, a friend who's an actor, PJ Ransohne, who I love.

He's totally crazy.

He said, there's this.

There's this play that we're messing with.

I think you should come read it.

Written by his friend John.

So I got to meet John and I read the play and I really enjoyed it.

Like, I.

I always like a family that has major dysfunction.

It's kind of a specialty in my mind.

And I got really excited about it.

I thought it was.

There was something very interesting in it, you know, something to play with.

Can you recall the moment when it's all clicked?

Do you have moments like that on all of your ventures, or at least some of them, and it's like the light bulb goes off or something like that.

You know, it's a dim light bulb, but, you know, it's always like, you know, you read a lot of things and there's so many great things different people write, and I write myself.

So every once in a while, something just catches your attention.

And usually for me, it's a selfish thing.

You know, I see my mother in it or my father or a little bit of someone I know that I get excited about.

And for me, this.

The character Ruth in this movie, I really.

I thought of my mother and my sister for some reason.

And then I love DJ So that really excited me about it.

But you never know.

You know, you read.

I read a movie years ago called Boulevard that I ended up doing, and it was about a guy in his 60s coming out, and something really touched me about his story.

So you never know.

It's.

It's go.

It's always has to be a personal thing for me.

I wish it didn't because I could probably make a lot more money doing some crazy movie.

But my personal taste is weird, so I just get attracted to who knows what.

It's usually a personal thing.

I find a connection to it.

You know, as for the cast, which is absolutely batshit crazy.

And, yeah, I mean, Ed Harris, Jennifer Coolidge, Bill Murray, Gabriel Union, Louis Pullman.

Wow.

Just.

Yeah.

How did all the pieces come together?

You know, it's always crazy and you never know.

And to be honest, I get lucky sometimes because I love to write, too.

So, you know, John writes a script or whoever, I mess with it a little bit, and then I think, okay, who would be perfect?

You know?

And I was watching White Lotus at the time, and I remember thinking, this lady's really good.

And I didn't know who she was, but turns out she's a big deal.

And I thought, oh, my God, I gotta find a way to her, because she would just make Ruth so special in a.

Luckily, I got through to her manager through one of the producers, Patrick Muldoon, and they said, okay, we'll give it to Jennifer.

I said, oh, my gosh.

And then she said she'd do it.

You know, then it was like, you know, Ed Harris was a.

I went through a thing called the Sundance Labs as a writer originally, where they pick eight people and they bring you in.

And Ed was one of my advisors, so I never forgot his email, you know, I thought, let me send him an email, you know, and he wrote me right back after all these years, and he said, I'll read it tonight, you know, And I said, oh, my God.

And then, you know, Pete Davidson and all these other people start coming, and it was just a bunch of.

An embarrassment of riches is what it was.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I mean, after such amazing actors as Jennifer Coolidge and Ed, Harry's life gets easier.

It's like Bruce Lee, you know, you go through one door, then you go through two doors.

You know, eventually you get there.

Yeah.

And something you've already somewhat alluded to is this film especially centers around family.

And I think while there is, of course, a somewhat universal definition of family, the truth is we all have different experiences with it.

First, if we were to really simplify it, there is the old versus new family, the one we are born into versus the one we choose for ourselves.

What was it like to bring that to life on screen and.

Yeah.

Handle those varying dynamics.

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a personal thing for me, you know, even though probably the thing that got me excited about this in that sense, because I've always found family in my life, you know, through the punk rock scene growing up or a bunch of misfits that find each other.

And I always played in bands as a kid because I always think of bands as the family you're trying to build.

And usually it's pretty dysfunctional too.

So it's.

I'm drawn to that idea of blood versus, you know, who you choose.

So this movie really sort of touches on that in many different ways.

So that was one of the things that excited me.

How do you film it?

I don't know.

I go one scene to the next.

I don't think about the big picture.

It's just, okay, then we're going to walk through this door and then we do this scene and.

And then you hope it all makes sense in the end, you know.

But yeah, that is certainly a theme of this movie.

Yeah, yeah.

And what we individually define as family versus the broader concept of it, it's a.

It's hard to watch a movie and not find something relatable.

So with that in mind, I'm curious how have your on set and film based experiences shaped your own perception of different situations, feelings, emotions and relationships throughout your career?

Yeah, well, you know, I shove in my feelings into the movie, you know, it's always personal for me, always, you know, and with this movie, what was interesting for me at least is I always loved Ruth.

And I thought I had this idea before we started filming that she would do a scene that's not in the script where she would look at all the things that someone with Sandy's wealth has and she doesn't have, you know, and for some reason that was the image that I thought of.

I know it's funny and there's murder and guns, but I, I wanted to see what she doesn't have, what she could have had and she lost.

So when we were on the set, I said to Jennifer, oh, we have 15 minutes before lunch.

Can we sneak over into this room and just look at all the expensive cosmetics?

You know, just look at, we'll film it.

And she says, okay, you know, sure, what are we doing?

I was like, just look at it, you know.

And then she decided to steal a couple, you know, which.

That's her because she's great.

For me, that was my way of sneaking in something real about this person.

You know, I didn't grow up with anything.

So when you saw someone that had wealth, you either were bothered by it or you were just intrigued by it, or you didn't understand it.

So I wanted to ground Ruth in that.

So as far as emotionally and all that, that was my little trick to not laughing at Ruth too much.

She's a person.

And I try very hard in every film I make to make characters real because I've known some people that have done things maybe that are not the best.

But there's always.

Usually there's a core to the human being, no matter who they are.

I mean, maybe sometimes there's an exception, but most people come from somewhere.

So it's always important to find that or else I don't think I'm making something I can relate to.

You know, I mean, there's.

There's great movies where it's just a maniac and kills people, but I like to find the root of who that person is and why.

And, yeah, now that you mentioned bringing something to the project and putting some of your experiences and some, dare I say, parts of yourself into it.

It's not that it's something that can be measured or strictly compared, but do you even think of the comparison in what you put into the project and what you can take away from it?

Yeah, well, you know, I just.

If it's a story that works for me, like, it starts with the story, you know, and there's usually something.

It's just like writing a song or anything, you know, like, you have a good hook, you know?

Once I read a script, I did a movie called Man Down.

The only thing I remembered about reading the script was at the end, the connection between the father and son.

And I thought of my father, who had epilepsy and he used to have seizures.

And I thought one time my father, he had a seizure and you're supposed to not be able to be conscious.

And we used to put our hand in his mouth to make him not bite his tongue, which is not the right thing to do.

So don't do it.

And it hurt so much.

I was a little boy and he stopped.

He was strong enough to stop for a moment, which they say is not possible, but he did.

And when I read that script, I thought of that scene and I said, oh, you know, so it was personal to me.

When I read Boulevard, I thought of my mother.

I wrote things that, of course, are personal with this movie.

I saw my sister.

I saw my mother.

So I.

I don't think of how much I can put into it, but I think how much I can relate to it, you know, because if I can't relate to it, I don't know how to do it.

I wish I did again.

Like, I would make Transformers.

I'd make a whole lot of money, but I have to relate to something.

And for this, I related to Ruth and DJ because he's always asking questions.

He's the only person in the whole movie that doesn't know what's going on.

Nobody will tell him.

And he's.

He's trying to find out so hard.

So I related to those two characters and then the other people I recognized as selfishly, my father, my uncle, whatever, but those were the two I felt were closer to me, you know?

So, yeah, I look.

I look for something that I.

I can relate to, and then.

Then I start sneaking in my selfish things into it, you know, like, maybe we're going to look at this and steal something or, you know, whatever the thing is, you know, and then it's nice when you have a good story and there's some funny jokes or some good scenes with murder or something, but then the rest of it is the actors bring in their own thing, you know, Because I think usually an actor, at least when I usually work in a very small, independent space, even though it's big actors, they're not getting paid a lot of money to do it.

So if they show up to be on this set, it's probably because they found something in it that maybe they relate to.

So I like to see what they bring, too.

And I'm surprised.

Usually like, oh, wow, that's what's happening.

You know, Gabrielle Union had lots of input, you know, and be like, oh, this is.

This is how you feel?

Okay.

You know, takes me a minute to understand it.

So it's a give and take.

That's storytelling for me.

Whatever it is, songs, whatever, you know.

So often that we say they are not doing it for the money.

Well, yeah, in the indie space, they really aren't doing it for the money.

Yeah, I mean, you know, listen, all these actors, they don't need me, that's for sure.

And they don't need this movie.

Maybe they do for a different reason, which is what I hoped for.

You know, like, we need this because we are actors, too, and go shoot them up in Marvel movies.

I wish they called me for those.

But until they do, I'm happily making these movies because I feel very not comfortable, but connected to them.

I like the indie world.

It's dirty, in trouble.

Thank you for sharing.

Another aspect I always have to ask about when it happens in a movie, which is not to say it's rare, is the narration, what does that mean?

Or what does that change for your framing or even just in general, your approach to the project at hand?

Narration is tricky, right, because it could ruin you, too.

And it's almost every person that has ever written a story that's personal puts narration.

It's the first thing we all think of because you're so afraid to trust the pictures or the story.

So usually when I made my first movie, I had narration through the whole movie.

And I got to go through the Sundance labs, and they said, you're going to get rid of all of it.

And I said, no, no, no.

And I got rid of all of it except for the beginning and the end.

With this movie, I like the narration because it was doing more than telling me what I already know, because sometimes, you know, they'll say, and then I saw this, and then you see it.

I don't need that.

But this was DJ the character talking, and he's completely confused the whole movie.

So I liked him, the narrator being confused.

I thought that was an interesting thing.

And again, until I found the actor Miles, who plays DJ I was terrified of it because, oh, this is going to be so corny.

It's either going to be Urkel or it's going to be, you know, like Wonder Years.

But the.

When the actor showed up and the words flowed out of him very easily, then I got excited about it.

And it gives you the opportunity.

Look, it could be a bad crutch or a good crutch because sometimes you lean on it because you think, oh, this is going to be clever.

And maybe that's not the best idea, and I've lived it, but sometimes it's nice because it allows you the freedom to just show some weird pictures instead of being, you know, stick to the.

To the straight up scene, you know, it allows me to show a turtle walking down the street or something, you know, So I saw it.

Narration is tricky and.

And it could be good and really bad, you know, So I enjoyed that with this movie.

I was excited about it.

And as for the setting, there is this very idyllic atmosphere, New Year's Eve family and so on, but within underlying yet apparent suspense, of course.

And that's where this, I don't know how to put it, party crasher stroke comes into play, which brings us to, or at least me, patience.

What to reveal, what not to reveal, and when to do or not to do.

So even though you have your script as your guideline, or even more than that, how aware do you have to be of what you have on your hands and when to show them.

Everything is tricky with storytelling, right?

You know, I'm a weird viewer.

If I watch a movie, I don't care if I get lost.

If I enjoy it, it doesn't matter to me.

I'd rather get a little lost than know everything that's going on for me.

Like my.

One of my favorite movies is Once Upon a Time in America.

I don't know what's happening half the time, but it's so beautiful.

And it takes me into such a great place that I don't care, you know, and I don't worry too much.

I mean, I want to make sure that in the end you kind of understand the story, but in the moment.

Well, if you don't know we're in a flashback for 20 seconds, it's okay if somebody figures out the ending before the twist, you know, if you're making the Sixth Sense, then you better hide your secret, you know, Whole movie is based on the twist, right?

With a lot of the things I work on and with a lot of fun films, it's not so much about the twist.

So I don't worry so much about it.

I'm like, if you get a little lost, you'll catch up, you know, or maybe just enjoy it, you know, like, if you go into a flashback, sometimes they want to do something so we know you're in the flashback.

I'm like, just go.

And maybe they'll be like, why am I looking at this?

And.

But I think you'll catch up.

So I don't worry too much about it.

I mean, I think it through, of course, and we.

We really.

I mean, as much as I act like I don't care, I care about everything.

So we really plan these things out.

But I don't worry if they say, is the audience going to know what's going on?

I'm like, I don't know, but they'll catch up, you know, as long as you're enjoying it.

So it's a thin line, you know, especially with narration, you could start really making sure people know every second what's happening.

But I don't know if you want put on the news.

And then you really won't know what's going on either.

So I'm not sure how this works.

Everything's a surprise.

Through that, we started our conversation with the script and how it found you and the many characters your incredible ensemble plays.

First and foremost, it all has to work once again on paper.

But then you have to follow through with that recurring shift in focus between the Characters and different situations with your camera.

I'm not just gonna go ahead and spoil the ending part.

Rather ask you about it in a more general sen.

And this is a big question, because even though oftentimes it's not about the destination but the journey, what does the final shot say about a film in itself?

Oh, boy.

Well, a lot.

You know, I mean, it's what you leave the people with, you know, and it's funny, with this ending, it was written and I was not sure we needed it.

It doesn't need to go where it goes.

You know, it can end without it.

But of course, when you have.

If I'm gonna have the opportunity to push in on Ed Harris at the end of a movie, I'm gonna take it.

And we tried it a couple of different ways.

And he decided because he's a great actor, of course, and a great director too.

So you can't make my life much easier if.

If I have that to push in on at the end of my movie.

You know, the instincts that he had were pretty interesting because I thought.

I was a little worried that it might come across.

I don't know, but.

But I thought.

I thought what he did.

I really enjoyed what he does because it's kind of.

Look, when you make a big, gigantic budget movie that no one ever calls me for, but most of the movies like that, there's a big note that a lot of people get.

Where does the character grow?

You know, how does he change?

You know, a lot of big movies, you know, characters go from one place to another.

I don't believe people change that much.

This is my opinion.

Some people do, you know, Gandhi, big change.

Malcolm X, big change.

You know, these are big changes in life.

But most people, they start here and maybe they go here, and that's life.

And what I enjoyed about this film, where it goes, is they do a lot of crazy things.

A lot of horrible things happen and crazy, whatever happens, but they don't change all that much, in my opinion.

I like that it was maybe a little baby step, but in some ways they settle back into their life.

And I thought there was something interesting about that.

So we didn't give you this big happy ending or.

Or not happy ending or whatever.

So I believe.

I'm a big believer that people.

You know, there's a.

There's a movie I love with Dustin Hoffman, Lenny from many years ago, and he's got a scene and never think.

I never stop thinking about it with any movie I do.

He's putting a light on and he's putting it off and he's saying, people don't change.

They don't change, you know, they stay the same, you know, and that was a big thing about this film for me, is a lot of things happen to them, but I don't know if they change too much.

So it's not the most pop thing to do with a movie, but it was a fun one.

Yeah.

Well, Dido, just like in the film, I believe this is the perfect send off for a conversation as well.

Unfortunately, you don't have Ed Harris to push in on, but it's just me.

I'll take it.

Cool, man.

Once again, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you.