1 00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:13,420 Hello and welcome to a new episode of The Art Engager. 2 00:00:14,055 --> 00:00:18,645 Today I'm chatting with illustrator and educator Jessica Hartshorn. 3 00:00:18,675 --> 00:00:23,545 But before our chat, if you haven't already, do go back and listen to the last 4 00:00:23,595 --> 00:00:29,515 two solo episodes created to celebrate the launch of my book, The Art Engager. 5 00:00:30,054 --> 00:00:31,199 Episode 1 3 6. 6 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:36,260 Episode 6 explores what questioning practices are, why I created 7 00:00:36,260 --> 00:00:41,169 them, and how they can help you to create engaging museum experiences. 8 00:00:41,650 --> 00:00:47,049 And episode 137 does a deep dive on one of the key questioning 9 00:00:47,050 --> 00:00:49,440 practices in my book, the universal. 10 00:00:50,239 --> 00:00:55,140 Listen in to discover how the universal came about and how you can use it 11 00:00:55,309 --> 00:00:57,750 with art and objects in the museum. 12 00:00:58,965 --> 00:01:02,115 And please help me spread the word about my book. 13 00:01:02,475 --> 00:01:04,575 You can do this in a number of ways. 14 00:01:04,825 --> 00:01:09,785 You can give a rating or write a short review on Amazon, Goodreads 15 00:01:09,855 --> 00:01:12,015 or your favourite book platform. 16 00:01:12,414 --> 00:01:15,945 You can post a photo or video on social media with The 17 00:01:16,015 --> 00:01:17,935 Art Engager in its new home. 18 00:01:18,005 --> 00:01:20,964 And do tag me in, I'd love to see it. 19 00:01:21,695 --> 00:01:25,135 So, back to today's guest, Jessica Hartshorn. 20 00:01:25,785 --> 00:01:30,665 Jessi is an illustrator based in the UK who specialises in creating 21 00:01:30,675 --> 00:01:34,965 beautiful, engaging artwork for the cultural and heritage sector. 22 00:01:35,414 --> 00:01:39,884 As a former museum educator, Jessi has a unique perspective. 23 00:01:40,024 --> 00:01:45,325 She understands both the creative and the operational sides of museum work. 24 00:01:45,859 --> 00:01:50,479 And Jessi uses this knowledge and experience to design family trails, 25 00:01:50,509 --> 00:01:56,199 maps, educational resources, and more, that are not only visually engaging, 26 00:01:56,350 --> 00:02:01,789 but also practical and effective in creating deeper connections with museum 27 00:02:01,789 --> 00:02:04,959 collections, even the unloved objects. 28 00:02:05,699 --> 00:02:10,104 So in this episode, we explore Jessi's journey from museum educator to designer. 29 00:02:10,105 --> 00:02:17,045 and focus on how she uses art to make history and heritage accessible and fun. 30 00:02:17,524 --> 00:02:23,105 Jessi shares insights on her Draw Along sessions, designed to help participants 31 00:02:23,144 --> 00:02:29,424 overcome their reluctance or hesitation around drawing, to slow down and to 32 00:02:29,464 --> 00:02:32,744 observe artworks and objects in new ways. 33 00:02:33,300 --> 00:02:38,890 So listen in for lots of practical and useful advice on incorporating creative 34 00:02:38,950 --> 00:02:44,600 activities into museum experiences and also for Jessi's thoughts on how 35 00:02:44,609 --> 00:02:48,380 drawing can transform visitor engagement. 36 00:02:50,829 --> 00:02:54,079 Hi Jessi and welcome to The Art Engager podcast. 37 00:02:54,079 --> 00:02:54,419 Hello. 38 00:02:55,510 --> 00:02:58,980 So could you tell our listeners who you are and what you do? 39 00:02:59,904 --> 00:03:01,684 Yeah, I'm Jessica Hartshorn. 40 00:03:01,735 --> 00:03:05,445 My business name is Jessi Illustrates and I'm an illustrator. 41 00:03:05,695 --> 00:03:10,725 I mostly work for museums and galleries and create illustrated trails and 42 00:03:10,725 --> 00:03:13,554 packs and bring collections to life. 43 00:03:14,794 --> 00:03:17,854 I know that you started as a museum educator, so can you tell us a 44 00:03:17,854 --> 00:03:21,444 bit about your journey from being a museum educator, to a freelance 45 00:03:21,484 --> 00:03:23,744 illustrator working with museums? 46 00:03:24,629 --> 00:03:25,779 Yeah, absolutely. 47 00:03:25,839 --> 00:03:29,219 So, way back when I was a child, I've always loved art. 48 00:03:29,249 --> 00:03:34,239 So, I actually studied illustration and I graduated and started doing a 49 00:03:34,239 --> 00:03:36,039 little bit of freelance illustration. 50 00:03:36,079 --> 00:03:39,359 But like a lot of people, quite a few years ago, I fell 51 00:03:39,359 --> 00:03:41,379 into museums by accident. 52 00:03:41,399 --> 00:03:46,109 A job came up as an apprenticeship and I started working at 53 00:03:46,219 --> 00:03:48,679 an art centre and museum. 54 00:03:49,014 --> 00:03:56,124 As a Apprentice Education Officer and progressed to my next job in 55 00:03:56,124 --> 00:03:58,174 rugby at Rugby Art Gallery Museum. 56 00:03:58,314 --> 00:04:01,614 I moved on to being an Education Manager, Learning and Outreach 57 00:04:01,614 --> 00:04:03,154 Officer and I loved that job. 58 00:04:03,314 --> 00:04:05,404 I absolutely fell in love with museums. 59 00:04:05,764 --> 00:04:09,624 I've always liked history, I studied it at A level, but it's a whole new 60 00:04:09,624 --> 00:04:13,244 world of looking at collections and caring for collections, and then 61 00:04:13,254 --> 00:04:17,974 helping people to appreciate them and understand more about them, which 62 00:04:17,974 --> 00:04:19,754 was obviously my role in education. 63 00:04:20,115 --> 00:04:25,044 I absolutely loved that for over 16 years, so quite a long time, but towards 64 00:04:25,044 --> 00:04:30,374 the end of that journey, I started to want to be creative myself again. 65 00:04:30,809 --> 00:04:34,799 So in my role I was doing a lot of facilitating other people being 66 00:04:34,799 --> 00:04:39,667 creative, working with collections and artists together and putting together 67 00:04:39,667 --> 00:04:43,239 collaborations, so projects and events. 68 00:04:43,819 --> 00:04:47,319 So it's a lot of enabling other people, which I loved, and it was 69 00:04:47,329 --> 00:04:51,029 still creative, but it's not the same as making and doing myself. 70 00:04:51,649 --> 00:04:56,069 So while I was still in my role, I started painting again, and it 71 00:04:56,069 --> 00:04:59,409 was just more for fun initially, just not really painted for me. 72 00:04:59,409 --> 00:05:00,829 So 16 years. 73 00:05:01,329 --> 00:05:07,079 And just to get back into it, and I started a secret Instagram account 74 00:05:07,079 --> 00:05:11,209 where nobody knew it was me, and I started posting on there just, it's 75 00:05:11,209 --> 00:05:14,669 almost like to set myself, be a bit accountable I suppose, I said I'm 76 00:05:14,669 --> 00:05:18,444 going to post two, three, artworks a week, which is quite ambitious I think 77 00:05:18,444 --> 00:05:21,324 but I did do it and it made me paint. 78 00:05:21,854 --> 00:05:27,294 And then after a little while I applied for a big mural in Birmingham at the 79 00:05:27,294 --> 00:05:32,534 MAC which is a big art centre so It was four 13 metre walls, so it's huge. 80 00:05:33,094 --> 00:05:35,924 Just off a whim really, and I got it. 81 00:05:35,924 --> 00:05:37,154 I couldn't believe I got it. 82 00:05:37,474 --> 00:05:41,494 And as a result of that, all of a sudden, a lot of my museum network 83 00:05:41,504 --> 00:05:46,004 people saw that I could paint, and it kick started this new journey for 84 00:05:46,035 --> 00:05:51,504 me that I could use both the heritage aspect and my illustration skills to, 85 00:05:51,944 --> 00:05:53,704 to work in the sector in a new way. 86 00:05:54,689 --> 00:05:57,769 What does your role include these days? 87 00:05:57,779 --> 00:06:01,529 So you've now fully made the transition to freelance illustrator. 88 00:06:01,529 --> 00:06:03,849 What sorts of things do you do on a daily basis? 89 00:06:04,894 --> 00:06:09,944 So, I use my knowledge and experience working in museums, and I take that and 90 00:06:09,944 --> 00:06:14,924 create things like trails for both schools and families, and also adults, and I've 91 00:06:14,924 --> 00:06:20,614 also created them for ESOL learners, so adults with English as a second language. 92 00:06:21,209 --> 00:06:27,429 And I've created things like maps and floor vinyls and wall vinyls too. 93 00:06:27,479 --> 00:06:31,039 I'm just doing some characters at the moment that are going to be 94 00:06:31,039 --> 00:06:33,169 made into products for museum shops. 95 00:06:33,179 --> 00:06:36,869 So a real range and breadth of different things. 96 00:06:37,199 --> 00:06:40,629 But one of my skills obviously working in learning, I did quite a lot of 97 00:06:40,679 --> 00:06:43,209 delivery within the museum itself. 98 00:06:43,539 --> 00:06:48,589 So I also collaborate with museums to maybe run workshops and test 99 00:06:48,639 --> 00:06:52,189 the trails as well as illustrate and put the content together. 100 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:58,459 So it's quite a kind of unique skill really to be able to actually understand 101 00:06:58,669 --> 00:07:03,039 how they work, like physically work and practically work, as well as doing 102 00:07:03,039 --> 00:07:06,219 this pretty visual things as well. 103 00:07:07,629 --> 00:07:11,469 So you talked about creating illustrated trails for some museums there. 104 00:07:11,879 --> 00:07:16,189 How do you go beyond simple treasure hunt approaches and how 105 00:07:16,369 --> 00:07:20,069 do you create actual meaningful engagement through these trails? 106 00:07:21,099 --> 00:07:22,609 That's a really good question. 107 00:07:23,379 --> 00:07:26,589 For me, I love heritage, so as soon as I see an object, I 108 00:07:26,589 --> 00:07:28,079 get really excited about it. 109 00:07:28,079 --> 00:07:33,949 So I've already got that kind of understanding and appreciation for things 110 00:07:33,969 --> 00:07:41,019 like how we care for collections, how we physically display them, how we might 111 00:07:41,019 --> 00:07:45,259 want to find out what they're made out of and why they might have survived, who 112 00:07:45,529 --> 00:07:47,159 owned them and the stories behind them. 113 00:07:47,159 --> 00:07:51,519 So I've already got all that kind of in depth knowledge from my museum background. 114 00:07:51,789 --> 00:07:56,799 So I bring all of that to my trails and try and I embed that into them. 115 00:07:57,099 --> 00:08:00,799 So for example when I'm creating the trails, one of the first thing 116 00:08:00,799 --> 00:08:06,259 I do is actually walk the journey and look at the practicalities. 117 00:08:06,259 --> 00:08:06,709 So. 118 00:08:07,284 --> 00:08:11,284 Are the objects that maybe the staff have identified maybe too high or 119 00:08:11,324 --> 00:08:16,194 too low, or is there a glare on the glass from the lighting so the 120 00:08:16,194 --> 00:08:17,664 children won't be able to see them? 121 00:08:17,884 --> 00:08:20,984 Because before I start illustrating and doing all the other things, I want 122 00:08:20,984 --> 00:08:25,594 to know that it's going to flow nicely and that everything is accessible. 123 00:08:26,339 --> 00:08:29,259 So that's one thing I bring straight away from knowing how 124 00:08:29,259 --> 00:08:31,229 we display and use the objects. 125 00:08:31,419 --> 00:08:33,509 Also, is the object going to stay out? 126 00:08:33,859 --> 00:08:36,499 Is it going to get rotated and put in the store? 127 00:08:36,899 --> 00:08:40,259 So that's a quite key thing if all this time and money potentially 128 00:08:40,269 --> 00:08:44,014 have gone into it and it's going to be taken somewhere else. 129 00:08:44,024 --> 00:08:47,864 So that's something, again, I bring that knowledge with me to 130 00:08:47,864 --> 00:08:51,184 ask the right questions, I suppose, right at the very beginning with 131 00:08:51,414 --> 00:08:53,224 the team that I'm working with. 132 00:08:53,794 --> 00:08:58,694 And then the content itself, I try and bring the different learning styles 133 00:08:58,724 --> 00:09:00,794 that children might have into it. 134 00:09:00,814 --> 00:09:05,384 So rather than just running around finding something and not really engaging 135 00:09:05,384 --> 00:09:10,429 with The collections themselves I try and use the collections, so illustrate 136 00:09:10,459 --> 00:09:15,749 them and maybe make them into characters or focus on something in particular 137 00:09:16,019 --> 00:09:21,269 within the drawing but then I also ask questions I do, like, missing word 138 00:09:21,319 --> 00:09:25,409 Texts, so they have to read some of the information and find the missing word. 139 00:09:25,889 --> 00:09:30,219 I do illustrations where the children have to finish off the design of 140 00:09:30,219 --> 00:09:33,179 a pot, for example, or a tile. 141 00:09:33,779 --> 00:09:40,809 And I just try and make it Really rich in terms of visual, maybe using some 142 00:09:40,809 --> 00:09:44,699 numbers in something, trying to use lots of different ways of learning 143 00:09:44,729 --> 00:09:48,949 and engaging people, rather than just running around and finding some things. 144 00:09:49,409 --> 00:09:53,709 There's always a place for that, to just get people into museums and start off 145 00:09:53,739 --> 00:09:58,619 perhaps at a lower level, but particularly when I've done school related trails. 146 00:09:58,859 --> 00:10:02,709 We've tried to maybe link it to the curriculum as well, just make it 147 00:10:02,709 --> 00:10:06,499 really varied in the way that the children engage with the objects. 148 00:10:07,479 --> 00:10:10,769 And what sorts of trails have you worked on recently? 149 00:10:12,109 --> 00:10:15,819 So I'm just finishing one at the moment, which is really exciting. 150 00:10:15,829 --> 00:10:19,929 And we are hopefully going on to make products and other things from 151 00:10:19,939 --> 00:10:21,609 the character that I've developed. 152 00:10:21,999 --> 00:10:24,979 I've done quite a lot of that this year where I've developed a character 153 00:10:25,419 --> 00:10:28,599 specific In a bespoke way for a venue. 154 00:10:28,999 --> 00:10:35,679 And this is a medieval elephant, and it's for a medieval guild hall and one of the 155 00:10:35,789 --> 00:10:40,209 lovely things I get to do is that problem solving element where the staff will 156 00:10:40,209 --> 00:10:45,663 say 'right we've got a logo already and it's an elephant and got a castle and I 157 00:10:45,663 --> 00:10:50,213 can't see how we can put those two things together' and so my elephant character is 158 00:10:50,213 --> 00:10:55,213 wearing a bit like a robe with a castle on it so he's standing up with his hands free 159 00:10:55,213 --> 00:11:00,423 so he can hold things and that was my kind of way of using my historical knowledge 160 00:11:00,453 --> 00:11:01,853 doing a little bit of research about what. 161 00:11:02,283 --> 00:11:05,833 what they wore in that era and putting all those pieces together. 162 00:11:06,203 --> 00:11:10,903 And the trail it goes into a medieval kitchen and an armory 163 00:11:10,943 --> 00:11:15,013 and some really beautiful and interesting places in the space. 164 00:11:15,293 --> 00:11:18,753 Looks at things like witch marks on the wall that have been carved in 165 00:11:18,763 --> 00:11:20,853 and yeah, lots of textural things. 166 00:11:20,853 --> 00:11:24,183 We did a lot of like, Touching and feeling, you know, kneel on the floor 167 00:11:24,183 --> 00:11:26,243 and feel the texture of the tiles. 168 00:11:26,553 --> 00:11:31,783 So incorporating our senses, listening and smelling in the kitchen and 169 00:11:31,783 --> 00:11:33,503 then using their own ideas as well. 170 00:11:33,513 --> 00:11:37,983 So, there's some signatures that have been carved into the wall, like graffiti, and 171 00:11:37,993 --> 00:11:43,213 we get them to design their own medieval signature using this style of writing. 172 00:11:43,223 --> 00:11:45,033 So that was really lovely. 173 00:11:45,033 --> 00:11:49,003 It was beautiful aesthetically to take pieces of stained glass window 174 00:11:49,143 --> 00:11:50,553 and things like that to illustrate. 175 00:11:50,893 --> 00:11:53,743 And yeah, I'm really excited to see it come together. 176 00:11:54,903 --> 00:11:59,003 And when you're designing a trail, something that I was just thinking 177 00:11:59,003 --> 00:12:00,943 about then was what comes first? 178 00:12:00,943 --> 00:12:06,153 Is it the logistics and the objects or does the design come first? 179 00:12:06,203 --> 00:12:07,223 How do you approach it? 180 00:12:07,223 --> 00:12:08,983 Always the objects for me. 181 00:12:09,473 --> 00:12:12,943 I think, yeah, objects and logistics, because otherwise it just doesn't work. 182 00:12:13,293 --> 00:12:17,483 And that's why I love testing them with children, because they're super honest. 183 00:12:17,803 --> 00:12:20,403 'I can't find it, Miss' or 'this is too hard'. 184 00:12:20,793 --> 00:12:22,313 So when I test. 185 00:12:22,548 --> 00:12:26,668 With children, I do get them to be, at the beginning we'd say, your role 186 00:12:26,698 --> 00:12:30,248 here is really important, you're going to influence how other people see 187 00:12:30,248 --> 00:12:33,848 this, and if there's anything that doesn't work, tell me and be honest. 188 00:12:34,208 --> 00:12:38,548 And that's really helpful because you want it to work, you want it 189 00:12:38,598 --> 00:12:42,768 to be, when you put so much effort in, you want it to be successful. 190 00:12:43,688 --> 00:12:48,988 So I like to know physically it will work, there's a good flow, obviously 191 00:12:48,988 --> 00:12:51,108 the objects are key, but they could be. 192 00:12:51,943 --> 00:12:54,883 What people would perceive as dull objects that I can then 193 00:12:54,883 --> 00:12:57,883 make them more interesting, that's kind of part of my role. 194 00:12:57,903 --> 00:13:00,683 And that's where the aesthetics meet in the middle, because 195 00:13:01,193 --> 00:13:03,273 that's in a way a joy for me. 196 00:13:03,273 --> 00:13:05,893 If someone goes, this is in our collection, what is classed 197 00:13:05,913 --> 00:13:07,083 as a really dull object? 198 00:13:07,093 --> 00:13:08,403 Can you make it interesting? 199 00:13:08,683 --> 00:13:11,423 And that's like, yeah, bring it on, bring on that challenge. 200 00:13:11,423 --> 00:13:17,043 So the aesthetics is really important from that point of view as well as of 201 00:13:17,568 --> 00:13:19,758 Making people more engaged in something. 202 00:13:20,258 --> 00:13:24,738 We've just done a test in a canal museum and the children were 203 00:13:24,738 --> 00:13:29,528 looking at the objects around the site and every single child was 204 00:13:29,528 --> 00:13:31,738 walking past a case of canal art. 205 00:13:32,588 --> 00:13:37,918 plates and I think it's because there was glass in front of it, there wasn't 206 00:13:37,998 --> 00:13:40,188 anything massively engaging about it. 207 00:13:40,498 --> 00:13:44,488 They were going for everything they could touch and feel or go inside 208 00:13:44,488 --> 00:13:46,468 or that's what was engaging them. 209 00:13:46,838 --> 00:13:50,228 So now I'm like right, those plates, we're going to get those children loving 210 00:13:50,228 --> 00:13:52,108 those plates, I'm going to find a way. 211 00:13:53,238 --> 00:13:55,398 Because I find them really beautiful as well. 212 00:13:55,698 --> 00:13:59,708 So we're looking at how we can potentially, that they've got ribbon 213 00:13:59,708 --> 00:14:03,788 threaded through them, the plates, the ceramic plate, and we could get 214 00:14:03,788 --> 00:14:07,758 replicas that could be put in front of these cases, and the children can 215 00:14:07,768 --> 00:14:11,788 thread the ribbon through themselves, and then I'll hand paint some plates 216 00:14:11,788 --> 00:14:13,568 as well that they can engage with. 217 00:14:13,578 --> 00:14:19,288 So yeah, the aesthetic is important sometimes to add value in the 218 00:14:19,288 --> 00:14:23,418 sense of making it more interesting and accessible for people. 219 00:14:23,488 --> 00:14:28,248 I love the challenge of working with boring objects. 220 00:14:28,248 --> 00:14:32,298 I did a whole episode about how to work with boring objects because 221 00:14:32,298 --> 00:14:36,588 I think there are so many corners of museums that we overlook. 222 00:14:36,958 --> 00:14:40,408 We may just pass by, we may think, oh, I'm not sure how I 223 00:14:40,408 --> 00:14:41,578 could work with that object. 224 00:14:41,908 --> 00:14:42,513 And I like. 225 00:14:43,023 --> 00:14:47,263 Flipping that on its head, as you say, and the challenge of it and thinking about 226 00:14:47,263 --> 00:14:49,773 well, how could we work with that object? 227 00:14:49,783 --> 00:14:52,253 Are there different ways that we could look at it? 228 00:14:52,833 --> 00:14:57,948 What is it about that object that perhaps is making people just turn 229 00:14:57,948 --> 00:14:59,568 away from it or not look at it. 230 00:14:59,978 --> 00:15:02,858 What are the things that we could do to really get engagement there? 231 00:15:02,888 --> 00:15:07,028 So I love the fact that you're bringing love to unwanted corners 232 00:15:07,058 --> 00:15:09,718 of museums and galleries as well. 233 00:15:10,178 --> 00:15:15,578 And I think your love and your passion for drawing extends into other areas as well. 234 00:15:15,598 --> 00:15:19,228 So you run these amazing draw along sessions in galleries. 235 00:15:19,248 --> 00:15:23,298 Can you tell us a little bit about how these work and what makes them successful? 236 00:15:24,513 --> 00:15:26,713 Yeah, so they came out of lockdown, really. 237 00:15:26,713 --> 00:15:31,623 I started doing daily drawalongs online and live drawalongs in lockdown. 238 00:15:31,923 --> 00:15:35,523 And when we came out of lockdown, I thought, oh, I've got this audience now 239 00:15:35,523 --> 00:15:37,613 of people that want to draw along with me. 240 00:15:37,993 --> 00:15:40,573 And a few galleries approached me. 241 00:15:40,593 --> 00:15:45,183 To do them live in the galleries and I absolutely jumped at the chance, 242 00:15:45,213 --> 00:15:50,443 knowing that using my background again I know how to unpick paintings 243 00:15:50,483 --> 00:15:54,743 and really delve deeply into them by asking lots of questions, but 244 00:15:54,743 --> 00:15:58,023 also with drawing, especially if you're doing something from life 245 00:15:58,023 --> 00:16:00,833 drawing, still life, you have to look. 246 00:16:00,913 --> 00:16:03,213 And I teach a lot of workshops as well. 247 00:16:03,213 --> 00:16:06,453 And as part of that, we do an activity where we have a 248 00:16:06,453 --> 00:16:09,083 looking part for 30 seconds. 249 00:16:09,093 --> 00:16:14,433 So before we do anything, before pencil touches the paper, we look for 30 seconds. 250 00:16:14,783 --> 00:16:18,693 And children find that quite difficult, especially with attention spans nowadays, 251 00:16:18,733 --> 00:16:23,403 but it's so important to look at the texture, look at the shape, look 252 00:16:23,433 --> 00:16:25,033 at the shadow, does it look heavy? 253 00:16:25,033 --> 00:16:25,863 Does it look light? 254 00:16:26,023 --> 00:16:28,883 We talk about all those different things that we're looking for. 255 00:16:28,933 --> 00:16:31,433 And we do that in these draw alongs. 256 00:16:31,443 --> 00:16:35,523 So we maybe choose an artwork that we're going to be inspired by. 257 00:16:35,773 --> 00:16:40,043 We have a chat about it, thinking about the materials used, thinking 258 00:16:40,043 --> 00:16:43,153 about the atmosphere maybe that it has. 259 00:16:45,033 --> 00:16:48,743 And then I'll choose something from the artwork that we'll all draw together. 260 00:16:49,433 --> 00:16:52,913 And I break it down into shapes so it's quite step by step. 261 00:16:53,213 --> 00:16:59,113 And it's amazing, I was so shocked because obviously in lockdown 262 00:16:59,113 --> 00:17:00,723 I can't see the responses. 263 00:17:00,753 --> 00:17:03,823 When I'm drawing a line you just have nice feedback but you don't 264 00:17:04,133 --> 00:17:08,253 see them come to life drawing themselves and how proud they are. 265 00:17:08,253 --> 00:17:11,738 So, when they've completed something, especially if they think they're 266 00:17:11,978 --> 00:17:13,908 'not a good drawer' in quotes. 267 00:17:13,958 --> 00:17:16,638 So I've absolutely loved doing those. 268 00:17:17,858 --> 00:17:21,958 What are some of the responses that you get from these sessions then from people? 269 00:17:21,958 --> 00:17:28,118 I can imagine the pride in having completed stuff, but also do they reflect 270 00:17:28,178 --> 00:17:32,558 on how they engage with the object itself, the artwork or the sculpture? 271 00:17:33,258 --> 00:17:33,968 Yeah, definitely. 272 00:17:33,968 --> 00:17:37,538 I think that initially it's sometimes shocking that they've 273 00:17:37,538 --> 00:17:38,988 managed to achieve something. 274 00:17:39,328 --> 00:17:43,248 A lot of the comments are, 'oh yeah, if I didn't really think about it, if I 275 00:17:43,268 --> 00:17:47,168 just break it down into shapes, it seems a lot more simple and straightforward'. 276 00:17:47,588 --> 00:17:50,948 People get overwhelmed by looking at something as a whole, which I think 277 00:17:50,948 --> 00:17:55,468 we do with artwork as well sometimes, where if we just focus on one, smaller 278 00:17:55,468 --> 00:17:59,798 element first and break that down into smaller parts it's a lot easier. 279 00:18:00,338 --> 00:18:03,278 And particularly with grandparents, I get a lot of grandparents bringing the 280 00:18:03,278 --> 00:18:07,288 children and initially they're just like, 'oh no, we'll just, we'll hang back'. 281 00:18:07,288 --> 00:18:11,198 And they're doing the activity and by the second drawing, 282 00:18:11,208 --> 00:18:13,033 they're eager and going for it. 283 00:18:14,313 --> 00:18:17,703 And a lot of the grandparents are actually people as well that will 284 00:18:17,703 --> 00:18:21,993 say, I've learned so much, I would always say I can't draw and I'm 285 00:18:21,993 --> 00:18:23,833 really pleased with what I've created. 286 00:18:24,423 --> 00:18:28,113 And yeah, I do hope that then they go away and look at the artwork in a different 287 00:18:28,123 --> 00:18:35,063 way that they can slowly look at an artwork and unpick elements and have 288 00:18:35,063 --> 00:18:37,463 more confidence in drawing, generally. 289 00:18:38,223 --> 00:18:40,393 Yeah, I think drawing is one of those things. 290 00:18:40,903 --> 00:18:45,573 It's always the same when I suggest in my workshops, if I suggest anybody 291 00:18:45,573 --> 00:18:49,853 does any drawing or if they write any poetry, there's always a kind 292 00:18:49,853 --> 00:18:54,643 of, either an element of fear passes through people's faces or a kind of 293 00:18:54,653 --> 00:18:59,953 eye roll that you get, so there's a hesitancy sometimes about drawing. 294 00:18:59,953 --> 00:19:05,088 So how do you really help Participants of all ages, like you just mentioned, 295 00:19:05,088 --> 00:19:08,868 the grandparents, the adults, as well as the children, overcome 296 00:19:08,878 --> 00:19:13,288 their reluctance and really build their confidence in these sessions. 297 00:19:14,493 --> 00:19:19,303 So I always start off every session with a few games, and they're very silly 298 00:19:19,303 --> 00:19:23,683 games generally in the sense of we do drawing with our eyes closed, for example. 299 00:19:24,103 --> 00:19:28,843 And so I start off drawing a circle, then we all close our eyes, and I'm 300 00:19:28,843 --> 00:19:32,393 quite theatrical when I run these sessions, I'm a little bit over the 301 00:19:32,403 --> 00:19:37,063 top and I'll come on everybody and I'm checking on you and that sort of thing, 302 00:19:37,083 --> 00:19:39,021 make sure you don't open your eyes. 303 00:19:39,021 --> 00:19:39,428 And. 304 00:19:39,578 --> 00:19:42,538 Make it really fun, to start off with, make it fun. 305 00:19:42,768 --> 00:19:45,758 Make it a bit silly, so everybody's is going to look ridiculous, 306 00:19:45,758 --> 00:19:48,198 whatever you do, because you're drawing it with your eyes closed. 307 00:19:48,728 --> 00:19:52,858 And that straight away seems to break down barriers if I can't draw, because 308 00:19:53,138 --> 00:19:55,028 it doesn't matter, it's a bit of fun. 309 00:19:55,378 --> 00:19:57,448 So we start off with those sorts of games. 310 00:19:57,448 --> 00:20:02,338 We do a game where I get people to draw three random weird shapes. 311 00:20:02,573 --> 00:20:05,573 Then they swap that with a partner and then they have to make 312 00:20:05,573 --> 00:20:07,313 those shapes into something new. 313 00:20:07,323 --> 00:20:12,583 So it could be a new creature or an object or a building. 314 00:20:12,933 --> 00:20:16,753 And again, we're using our creativity, we're using our imagination, but there's 315 00:20:16,753 --> 00:20:18,633 no pressure to make it look right. 316 00:20:18,733 --> 00:20:19,683 It is what it is. 317 00:20:20,053 --> 00:20:24,823 And just doing those sort of games initially to break down those barriers of 318 00:20:24,993 --> 00:20:27,693 it doesn't matter, seems to really help. 319 00:20:28,293 --> 00:20:29,703 And then from that, I'll start. 320 00:20:29,983 --> 00:20:33,623 With the draw alongs where I'll step by step draw a bit of 321 00:20:33,853 --> 00:20:35,553 something and they follow along. 322 00:20:36,053 --> 00:20:40,173 And generally, I mean, I've had really young children create the most amazing 323 00:20:40,723 --> 00:20:43,363 drawings following along with me. 324 00:20:43,663 --> 00:20:47,443 And I think it's that comfort blanket of knowing they're doing 325 00:20:47,443 --> 00:20:51,933 what I'm doing, gives them that confidence to not be fearful. 326 00:20:53,158 --> 00:20:54,138 Yeah, absolutely. 327 00:20:54,168 --> 00:20:57,588 And it's not that fear of the blank page as well because they're following along 328 00:20:57,598 --> 00:20:59,898 a process and they're following you. 329 00:20:59,948 --> 00:21:03,028 And I think it's all about creating the space as well. 330 00:21:03,038 --> 00:21:07,488 So if you were providing the instructions, but not creating 331 00:21:07,488 --> 00:21:11,698 the environment that was warm and welcoming, it wouldn't work as well. 332 00:21:11,698 --> 00:21:15,658 So it's a combination of the two that really creates the magic, I think, 333 00:21:15,688 --> 00:21:19,778 and makes people relax and feel that this is something that they can do. 334 00:21:19,778 --> 00:21:25,228 Yeah, and I always try and leave it open for, Their own ideas as well. 335 00:21:25,238 --> 00:21:27,998 So it might be that there's a framework that we create. 336 00:21:28,008 --> 00:21:32,088 Say it was, we did one linked to owls with a Quentin Blake exhibition 337 00:21:32,088 --> 00:21:33,348 I was working on last year. 338 00:21:33,808 --> 00:21:37,638 And we created characters that almost interacted with each other. 339 00:21:37,948 --> 00:21:41,638 So I got them to create facial expressions for me. 340 00:21:41,648 --> 00:21:43,278 So this owl is going to be cross. 341 00:21:43,638 --> 00:21:47,048 So show me how you might do that do that with your eyebrows and getting 342 00:21:47,048 --> 00:21:51,678 them to, with their hands, make their eyebrows in a cross shape and get them 343 00:21:51,678 --> 00:21:54,158 really interacted in my drawing as well. 344 00:21:54,158 --> 00:21:57,238 So it's not just follow me for the whole time. 345 00:21:57,238 --> 00:21:58,978 I'll also say, right, how could we do this? 346 00:21:59,038 --> 00:22:02,358 What do you think that facial expression would look like? 347 00:22:02,728 --> 00:22:05,988 And then we'll get to a point where, like freestyle, you can add your 348 00:22:06,188 --> 00:22:07,718 own accessories and you can add... 349 00:22:07,868 --> 00:22:08,698 it's a windy day. 350 00:22:08,698 --> 00:22:11,718 So what would you put on on the character, would he have a 351 00:22:11,718 --> 00:22:13,228 scarf flowing in the background? 352 00:22:13,238 --> 00:22:16,718 And so I try and get them to, once they've got that framework and 353 00:22:16,718 --> 00:22:19,448 they're really confident, they can start to add their own things. 354 00:22:19,498 --> 00:22:21,938 And through that, we start to do a bit of storytelling as well, 355 00:22:22,148 --> 00:22:26,408 and with their characters and a relationship between two drawings as 356 00:22:26,408 --> 00:22:30,238 well, how they might be interacting and one's happy, one's sad, why? 357 00:22:30,418 --> 00:22:32,148 And get them to come up with the stories. 358 00:22:32,158 --> 00:22:33,458 So yeah, it's really fun. 359 00:22:33,468 --> 00:22:33,878 I love it. 360 00:22:33,878 --> 00:22:36,848 so you have this real passion for drawing and encouraging people 361 00:22:36,848 --> 00:22:38,308 to draw, I can really see that. 362 00:22:38,318 --> 00:22:44,148 So what role can drawing play in really helping visitors to engage with the 363 00:22:44,158 --> 00:22:48,088 objects in our collection, but also to help them slow down and notice more? 364 00:22:48,578 --> 00:22:52,588 I think within the trails, it's something I've had a lot of teachers mention. 365 00:22:52,608 --> 00:22:55,888 Again, a bit like you said, when they, when you say you're going to 366 00:22:55,888 --> 00:22:59,363 draw, They get really frightened and teachers have done that as well. 367 00:22:59,363 --> 00:23:02,923 When we've done consultation earlier on, before I created a trail, when 368 00:23:02,923 --> 00:23:05,523 I've said, oh, we're going to do some creative activities within it. 369 00:23:05,863 --> 00:23:07,883 And they've gone, oh, but our kids hate drawing. 370 00:23:08,263 --> 00:23:13,503 I always try and make, again, the activities more fun and 371 00:23:13,853 --> 00:23:14,673 they're not just a blank page. 372 00:23:15,788 --> 00:23:19,628 So an example of another trail that I've done recently, we had 373 00:23:19,698 --> 00:23:23,028 about four different elements that, within it, that were creative. 374 00:23:23,408 --> 00:23:28,598 One was an illustration that I created and the children had to finish it off. 375 00:23:28,778 --> 00:23:32,848 So they were looking at something in front of them, and they had to look at 376 00:23:32,848 --> 00:23:35,198 the shapes and add the shapes within. 377 00:23:35,643 --> 00:23:37,103 an illustration I'd already done. 378 00:23:37,273 --> 00:23:40,463 So all of a sudden that wasn't frightening anymore, because they weren't having 379 00:23:40,463 --> 00:23:45,643 to draw this whole massive sculpture, they only had to add smaller elements. 380 00:23:46,013 --> 00:23:52,453 And then another one was, we had a shoemaker, and I illustrated a Victorian 381 00:23:52,453 --> 00:23:56,383 boot, and then we did some rubbings, because it was outside this particular 382 00:23:56,383 --> 00:24:00,373 one, we did some rubbings on trees within the boot to create the texture. 383 00:24:00,743 --> 00:24:03,673 And again, It all of a sudden wasn't frightening anymore. 384 00:24:03,923 --> 00:24:08,223 So I think some of the, both the drawing and anything creative really, 385 00:24:08,503 --> 00:24:13,063 I think it's sometimes helping people to take away that blank canvas and 386 00:24:13,303 --> 00:24:15,513 again break it down into smaller steps. 387 00:24:16,093 --> 00:24:19,753 Yeah, so at the same time it's actually encouraging them to notice 388 00:24:19,753 --> 00:24:21,573 more details in the world, isn't it? 389 00:24:21,583 --> 00:24:26,363 So drawing is observation when you look at it, there's a link between the two. 390 00:24:27,013 --> 00:24:28,513 Yeah, absolutely. 391 00:24:28,513 --> 00:24:32,583 And I love teaching life drawing as well We often say it's a bit like learning 392 00:24:32,583 --> 00:24:35,443 to drive when you're looking in your mirror constantly, you should be looking 393 00:24:35,443 --> 00:24:39,593 at the object, and then your artwork and then your object and then your 394 00:24:40,023 --> 00:24:45,238 artwork because your brain, looks at something often and then you think you 395 00:24:45,238 --> 00:24:48,578 know, you're going from your memory, but it's not actually right so it's 396 00:24:48,578 --> 00:24:53,068 that constant going back and checking and that helps you have to slow down, 397 00:24:53,078 --> 00:24:57,998 you have to do that to enable you to, especially if you're doing it from life.. 398 00:24:58,428 --> 00:25:01,718 When I do a lot of drawing there's the two elements really, there's the 399 00:25:02,078 --> 00:25:06,733 there's sort of drawing from still life or real life, and where you're pretty 400 00:25:06,733 --> 00:25:10,463 much copying, I would say and that's great, and there's a place for that. 401 00:25:10,743 --> 00:25:14,243 And then there's the other element where we're using an object to perhaps 402 00:25:14,483 --> 00:25:17,243 be the inspiration for a new artwork, a bit like you were saying with 403 00:25:17,263 --> 00:25:22,103 poetry, using it as inspiration, and both have really important places. 404 00:25:22,353 --> 00:25:27,758 The first, it's really useful to understand an object by Drawing and 405 00:25:27,758 --> 00:25:31,718 looking, because you're looking at the physical shape, the texture, what it 406 00:25:31,718 --> 00:25:35,688 might be made out of, is it heavy, is it weighted, you can see that from a shadow, 407 00:25:36,068 --> 00:25:40,088 and there's so much you can learn by just looking and drawing the object as 408 00:25:40,088 --> 00:25:44,998 it is, but then there's the other aspect of, well, What Maybe the story behind 409 00:25:44,998 --> 00:25:50,098 it, who owned it, or where's it come from, or create a new story, what you 410 00:25:50,158 --> 00:25:54,488 might think it might have come from, or what you might do with it, or whatever. 411 00:25:54,768 --> 00:25:58,988 So there's those two elements of almost like your imaginary element, 412 00:25:59,008 --> 00:26:03,408 and then the real thing, and both have such an important place, but 413 00:26:03,448 --> 00:26:07,808 you can only do either by looking, and looking really carefully. 414 00:26:08,648 --> 00:26:14,358 Absolutely, and how do museums create the environment for this to happen. 415 00:26:14,368 --> 00:26:23,008 So I'm intrigued as to how open museums are to host drawing events, how I'm also 416 00:26:23,038 --> 00:26:27,728 interested, I think, in how things are changing, how museums are using drawing 417 00:26:27,728 --> 00:26:29,628 and illustration to engage visitors. 418 00:26:29,658 --> 00:26:33,138 What trends are you seeing in how museums are using drawing? 419 00:26:34,143 --> 00:26:37,803 I definitely think that over the years I've been working in museums, 420 00:26:37,903 --> 00:26:42,223 they're more open to working with artists like myself to bring people 421 00:26:42,223 --> 00:26:44,453 in that can run different things. 422 00:26:44,453 --> 00:26:48,003 I was just, I work at a place called Compton Verney in the Midlands and they're 423 00:26:48,003 --> 00:26:50,833 running a neon life drawing session. 424 00:26:50,893 --> 00:26:53,223 So it's all glow in the dark, which is fabulous. 425 00:26:53,633 --> 00:26:58,473 So I think there's more and more places that are running drawing based activities. 426 00:26:58,833 --> 00:27:01,633 I think there's some fair stills in some places. 427 00:27:02,278 --> 00:27:05,148 Maybe not quite understanding how it could work. 428 00:27:05,568 --> 00:27:10,098 And I think, just ask artists, they're going to have some amazing ideas of 429 00:27:10,138 --> 00:27:13,258 seeing your collection and go, we could do this or we could do that. 430 00:27:13,268 --> 00:27:18,618 So I think having those conversations are really important and Potentially 431 00:27:18,648 --> 00:27:23,858 things like networking events for museums to invite artists in to just have a 432 00:27:23,858 --> 00:27:28,358 chat about different opportunities, because that's their job to problem 433 00:27:28,368 --> 00:27:33,008 solve and be creative and think of these amazing, exciting things that can 434 00:27:33,228 --> 00:27:38,368 bring in new audiences and engage with collections in different and unique ways. 435 00:27:38,378 --> 00:27:42,828 So yeah, there's definitely an opportunity and I do see that more 436 00:27:42,848 --> 00:27:46,618 and more museums are open to do that. 437 00:27:46,618 --> 00:27:53,318 However, I've seen a lot of museums lose their education officers and have 438 00:27:53,318 --> 00:27:57,098 less and less capacity, less funding. 439 00:27:57,418 --> 00:27:57,678 So. 440 00:27:58,128 --> 00:28:00,918 One of the reasons I've been quite busy this year, unfortunately for me, I 441 00:28:00,918 --> 00:28:06,048 suppose, is that people have lost their staff and I've been brought in to create 442 00:28:06,058 --> 00:28:10,198 trails for schools because they haven't got any learning staff to deliver anymore. 443 00:28:10,228 --> 00:28:13,768 So these packs I'm creating are being downloaded by the 444 00:28:13,788 --> 00:28:15,338 schools and are self led. 445 00:28:15,708 --> 00:28:20,498 So illustration and trails and that sort of thing can be used to supplement 446 00:28:20,698 --> 00:28:25,673 what's there, but you know, they can also be used as alternatives, I 447 00:28:26,123 --> 00:28:28,433 suppose, for teachers to have access. 448 00:28:28,793 --> 00:28:33,273 I mean, it's tricky, I say that, but a lot of the schools I spoke to, I've just done 449 00:28:33,403 --> 00:28:38,423 a project where we created three trails in a museum for all their different past 450 00:28:38,463 --> 00:28:43,163 projects and past workshops and actually the school said they wouldn't have visited 451 00:28:43,493 --> 00:28:45,828 at all, if they hadn't had the trails. 452 00:28:45,828 --> 00:28:49,608 So it's making sure that they are still being engaged and still 453 00:28:49,688 --> 00:28:51,448 coming and having an option. 454 00:28:51,448 --> 00:28:55,158 So, so yeah, it's really sad in that sense, but there are 455 00:28:55,188 --> 00:28:56,408 lots of people using them. 456 00:28:57,233 --> 00:29:01,633 in positive ways and still using them when they have got offices as well. 457 00:29:02,483 --> 00:29:05,823 Yeah, and it's still important to enable those self guided visits where 458 00:29:05,823 --> 00:29:09,083 there aren't the staff available to support them as well, and to do it 459 00:29:09,093 --> 00:29:13,293 in a way that encourages that deeper engagement, that observation, all the 460 00:29:13,293 --> 00:29:14,773 things that you were talking about. 461 00:29:15,313 --> 00:29:20,023 Now, I'm sure there's lots of people listening who are interested 462 00:29:20,203 --> 00:29:24,613 in incorporating more drawing activities, so what advice 463 00:29:24,663 --> 00:29:26,593 would you give anyone listening? 464 00:29:27,143 --> 00:29:30,263 I think, as I said, there's an opportunity to work with your local 465 00:29:30,263 --> 00:29:34,713 artists if you've got a community of local artists to get people involved. 466 00:29:35,063 --> 00:29:38,233 There's also lots of really great bodies out there, so if you're not 467 00:29:38,233 --> 00:29:42,103 aware of it, the Big Draw in the UK, and I think it's also international 468 00:29:42,103 --> 00:29:43,988 now, has a real range of artists. 469 00:29:44,328 --> 00:29:46,918 Resources on their website that you can download. 470 00:29:46,928 --> 00:29:51,598 They also have a range of books which have lists and lists of different drawing 471 00:29:51,608 --> 00:29:56,118 games and activities that you can use in cultural settings and heritage settings. 472 00:29:56,598 --> 00:30:00,168 And I think it's thinking about your objects. 473 00:30:00,693 --> 00:30:04,693 Little bits outside of the box and not being fearful of, 474 00:30:04,783 --> 00:30:06,743 yeah, using creative methods. 475 00:30:06,913 --> 00:30:11,253 But I think it is about having those tools to, as you said earlier, having a 476 00:30:11,253 --> 00:30:16,503 black, a blank piece of paper is really scary and it's tricky to engage people. 477 00:30:16,523 --> 00:30:20,813 So it's using different resources to find new ways of 478 00:30:21,153 --> 00:30:23,153 interpreting drawings and creating. 479 00:30:23,693 --> 00:30:29,543 new artwork, using tools that can help you, because it is quite overwhelming 480 00:30:29,543 --> 00:30:31,353 if you're not from that background. 481 00:30:31,833 --> 00:30:36,443 My brain automatically thinks in that way, and so when I, sometimes I've done, 482 00:30:37,243 --> 00:30:42,133 what I would class as quite basic things really, creative activities, and some 483 00:30:42,143 --> 00:30:46,383 museum staff are like, oh my gosh, this is so exciting, and I'm like, really? 484 00:30:47,063 --> 00:30:50,413 To me that seems quite straightforward and basic, but it's because 485 00:30:50,413 --> 00:30:51,703 they're not from that background. 486 00:30:52,043 --> 00:30:53,833 So it's either getting in. 487 00:30:54,273 --> 00:30:57,363 Those people, those specialists, or finding the resources 488 00:30:57,413 --> 00:30:58,273 that can support you. 489 00:30:58,273 --> 00:31:01,073 But it can be done and it doesn't have to cost very much at all. 490 00:31:01,543 --> 00:31:04,143 That's the other thing actually I'd point out is materials 491 00:31:04,143 --> 00:31:06,513 can make a real big impact. 492 00:31:07,063 --> 00:31:10,363 And I know it's hard with funding and things, but I would say the higher the 493 00:31:10,363 --> 00:31:14,163 quality of the material, the better experience people get, and that's 494 00:31:14,163 --> 00:31:16,913 not necessarily for every single thing that you do, but especially 495 00:31:16,913 --> 00:31:18,433 if you're offering workshops. 496 00:31:18,733 --> 00:31:22,513 When I do school sessions, I try and give them the best quality that I can 497 00:31:22,513 --> 00:31:26,223 afford within the budget, because when I go into schools and they've got the 498 00:31:26,223 --> 00:31:31,583 most horrific brushes that are all matted and bits falling out of them... 499 00:31:31,603 --> 00:31:32,043 Glue in 500 00:31:32,043 --> 00:31:32,373 them. 501 00:31:32,843 --> 00:31:33,943 Yeah, exactly. 502 00:31:34,003 --> 00:31:36,053 Glue in them and glitter in them. 503 00:31:36,053 --> 00:31:40,178 And they expect the children to create something Wonderful. 504 00:31:40,228 --> 00:31:41,988 It's like, well, it's just not going to happen. 505 00:31:41,988 --> 00:31:43,148 You wouldn't yourself. 506 00:31:43,438 --> 00:31:47,618 So I always take in good quality brushes, good quality paint painting on good 507 00:31:47,618 --> 00:31:51,968 quality paper where, you know, we can, and when it's suitable and what they 508 00:31:51,978 --> 00:31:53,648 then achieve is going to be far better. 509 00:31:54,118 --> 00:31:57,758 So that's something just to bear in mind that, and also children get 510 00:31:57,758 --> 00:32:02,928 really excited when they've got really, Beautiful materials by taking some rolls 511 00:32:02,928 --> 00:32:06,608 of black paper and then some really gorgeous oil pastels, and then they see 512 00:32:06,608 --> 00:32:10,988 that contrasting colour and texture, they get really excited, just like we 513 00:32:10,988 --> 00:32:14,758 would as adults when we see sparkly things or whatever in a workshop. 514 00:32:15,328 --> 00:32:16,998 So yeah, it's just something to consider. 515 00:32:17,933 --> 00:32:21,173 And also I would urge everybody listening to this to think that 516 00:32:21,173 --> 00:32:24,543 this is not just something for kids either, so this is something for 517 00:32:24,553 --> 00:32:31,563 all ages, and it's so rewarding seeing adults engage their creative 518 00:32:31,563 --> 00:32:33,203 side, especially when they're young. 519 00:32:34,363 --> 00:32:36,483 When you hear people saying that phrase, oh, I didn't know you could 520 00:32:36,533 --> 00:32:38,353 do this in a museum, isn't it? 521 00:32:39,073 --> 00:32:40,343 Yeah, absolutely. 522 00:32:40,343 --> 00:32:44,423 I do a lot of work with adults and it's so rewarding to see somebody 523 00:32:44,423 --> 00:32:47,953 that all their life, probably from school, they've been told they can't 524 00:32:48,043 --> 00:32:52,468 do art, they're rubbish, and then they find something that fits them. 525 00:32:52,898 --> 00:32:53,408 them. 526 00:32:53,828 --> 00:32:57,388 Because we're all creative in our own way, it just might be that some people 527 00:32:57,388 --> 00:33:04,578 are more drawn to drawing and other people are amazing at collage or clay or printing 528 00:33:04,578 --> 00:33:06,388 and it's finding what works for you. 529 00:33:06,738 --> 00:33:09,958 So yeah, it's really important at any age. 530 00:33:10,278 --> 00:33:14,388 I do a lot of work with adults living with dementia in museums and I was 531 00:33:14,388 --> 00:33:17,988 doing a session yesterday and we went and saw an exhibition and then 532 00:33:17,988 --> 00:33:19,228 we came and created some artwork. 533 00:33:20,423 --> 00:33:21,363 inspired by that work. 534 00:33:22,233 --> 00:33:26,893 And for a lot of these people, they may have been, say, an architect in a 535 00:33:26,893 --> 00:33:30,983 younger life, and they've lost a lot of their ability to do a lot of things, 536 00:33:31,643 --> 00:33:35,933 including sometimes mobility within their hands and sort of dexterity. 537 00:33:36,143 --> 00:33:42,058 Yet, they might try something new with me, such as printmaking, and They're 538 00:33:42,058 --> 00:33:45,528 amazing at it and they're so pleased that they've achieved something when they've 539 00:33:45,748 --> 00:33:50,038 lost so much already and especially when they're in a partnership of, say, maybe 540 00:33:50,038 --> 00:33:56,458 husband wife relationship, they've seen this person change so much, so to see them 541 00:33:56,458 --> 00:34:01,818 enjoy an exhibition and then, or a museum collection, and then to create something, 542 00:34:01,828 --> 00:34:03,938 it's really important, it has such value. 543 00:34:04,248 --> 00:34:06,733 People can't Don't always understand how much value that 544 00:34:06,733 --> 00:34:08,083 can add to somebody's life. 545 00:34:09,383 --> 00:34:10,163 Wonderful. 546 00:34:10,223 --> 00:34:11,323 I think we're going to leave it there. 547 00:34:11,333 --> 00:34:13,373 That's a really nice note to end on. 548 00:34:13,373 --> 00:34:16,423 Where can people learn more about your work? 549 00:34:17,443 --> 00:34:18,543 So I have a website. 550 00:34:18,553 --> 00:34:19,073 It's www. 551 00:34:19,073 --> 00:34:25,823 jessicahartshorn.com And I also am on social media, particularly 552 00:34:25,823 --> 00:34:27,473 Instagram because it's so visual. 553 00:34:27,663 --> 00:34:32,343 And you can also find me on Instagram at Jessi_Illustrates. 554 00:34:33,143 --> 00:34:33,723 Brilliant. 555 00:34:33,783 --> 00:34:37,233 Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing all the 556 00:34:37,233 --> 00:34:38,833 lovely details about your work. 557 00:34:39,258 --> 00:34:40,558 No problem, thank you. 558 00:34:42,598 --> 00:34:46,218 And a huge thank you to Jessi for joining me on the podcast today. 559 00:34:46,728 --> 00:34:50,978 Be sure to check out the show notes for more about her inspiring work. 560 00:34:51,798 --> 00:34:56,878 And if you've enjoyed this episode, or if any episode in our back catalogue 561 00:34:56,878 --> 00:35:01,138 has resonated with you, please consider supporting The Art Engager. 562 00:35:01,878 --> 00:35:06,248 You can now join us on Patreon with a simple monthly subscription 563 00:35:06,288 --> 00:35:08,288 to help keep this content coming. 564 00:35:08,753 --> 00:35:12,623 Thanks to all our supporters, you're really making a difference. 565 00:35:13,223 --> 00:35:18,973 Finally, don't forget to visit my website to learn more about The Art Engager book. 566 00:35:19,263 --> 00:35:22,313 Available now wherever books are sold. 567 00:35:22,933 --> 00:35:24,313 That's it for this episode. 568 00:35:24,663 --> 00:35:26,373 Thank you so much for tuning in. 569 00:35:26,703 --> 00:35:27,683 See you next time. 570 00:35:28,053 --> 00:35:28,463 Bye.