# ep 127. Breaking Barriers The Journey of Jimmy Smith Part

[00:00:00]

## [00:00:00] Introduction and Personal Anecdote

[00:00:00] **Tony Tidbit:** So she didn't know you were Black and then all of a sudden changed the, the opportunity. You can't meet with the creative director. You know, I just wanted to meet you. Thanks a lot.

[00:00:09] **Jimmy Smith:** Yep. That gig evaporated. So that's when I, that's when I said, Oh, this is like, this is like back to kindergarten, first grade, second grade.

[00:00:22] **Jimmy Smith:** Again, this is starting. All over again, because I'm not a basketball player, right? And here we go again. So that's when I knew. We'll

[00:00:33] **Tony Tidbit:** discuss race and how it plays a factor, how we didn't even talk about this topic, because we were afraid.

[00:00:40] **Jimmy Smith:** A Black Executive

[00:00:43] **Tony Tidbit:** Perspective.

## [00:00:44] Welcome to the Black Executive Perspective Podcast

[00:00:44] **Tony Tidbit:** Welcome to a Black Executive Perspective podcast, a safe space where we discuss all matters related to race, especially race in corporate America.

[00:00:52] **Tony Tidbit:** I'm your host, Tony Tidbit. So.

## [00:00:56] The Importance of Diversity in Advertising

[00:00:56] **Tony Tidbit:** As you guys know, the advertising, uh, is a [00:01:00] powerful medium that shapes our perceptions, influences our choices, and reflects on our society. However, it often falls short in representing the rich tapestry of our diverse world. The advertising industry has been criticized for its lack of diversity in its workforce, campaigns, and leadership roles.

[00:01:23] **Tony Tidbit:** It often fails to truly represent different races, ethnicities, genders, and background. This lack of diversity has far reaching implications, not only in terms of representation, but also in terms of the messages it sends and the opportunities it provides. Diverse perspectives bring creativity, innovation, and fresh ideas to the table.

[00:01:53] **Tony Tidbit:** When we lack diversity, we risk perpetuating stereotypes, excuse me, we risk [00:02:00] perpetuating stereotypes, unintentional biases, and alienating large portions of the audience.

## [00:02:08] Introducing Guest: Jimmy Smith

[00:02:08] **Tony Tidbit:** Our guest today, Jimmy Smith, Chairman, CEO of Amusement Park Entertainment, is a renowned figure in the world of advertising and entertainment.

[00:02:18] **Tony Tidbit:** With a career spanning over three decades, he has constantly pushed creative boundaries and championed diversity and inclusion in the industry. Today, Jimmy will discuss his story in the advertising industry. His challenges, successes, and how he was able to help break down barriers. To make it a more inclusive field for all.

[00:02:45] **Tony Tidbit:** Jimmy Smith, welcome to a black executive perspective podcast. My brother. What's good,

[00:02:50] **Jimmy Smith:** man. How you doing, Tony?

[00:02:52] **Tony Tidbit:** Buddy. I'm doing well, man. Look, I'm very blessed that you're here, bro. You have a, I mean, I could still, I had to cut the bio a little short. [00:03:00] You should know, right? We've been on here about 20 minutes, but every one of the accolades and all the things have you, you've already, um.

[00:03:08] **Tony Tidbit:** Achieve is very well warranted. So really appreciate that you're here and talk about the industry, which, you know, I've been in for 27 years. So I'm, I'm excited to get into your background and hear a lot of the stories and things that you've accomplished, but also what we're talking about, you know, how the industry can be more diverse, but before we go there, let's, let's do a little warm up first, buddy.

## [00:03:31] Getting to Know Jimmy Smith

[00:03:31] **Tony Tidbit:** Can you tell me a little bit where you live in now and tell me about your family? Oh,

[00:03:35] **Jimmy Smith:** I'm in Southern Cal and, um, you know, we, we enjoying that, you know, LA life, Irvine, Newport beach, all around up in there. The team is, uh, up and through Southern California. We dig the beaches.

[00:03:53] **Tony Tidbit:** Got it. So beaches, but you didn't grow up there though.

[00:03:56] **Tony Tidbit:** You grew up in the Midwest, correct? I

[00:03:58] **Jimmy Smith:** grew up in the Midwest, but [00:04:00] I'm a lifelong water guy. I grew up my, um, you know, Lake Michigan. Is, you know, basically where I grew up. And, um, matter of fact, my home hometown is, I was born in Muskegon. Um, which is right where the Lake Michigan is. And, and, um, the actual communities, Norton shores.

[00:04:22] **Jimmy Smith:** So, uh, everywhere I, when I left home and got my first gig. Was in Chicago that was on Lake Michigan and, you know, lived in Hawaii and so on. I could go on and on, but it's always been some water around, even in, in, in Portland. We had the rivers. So it's, it's about the water. I'm a water guy, man. I'm aqua man.

[00:04:46] **Jimmy Smith:** You're a water.

[00:04:47] **Tony Tidbit:** I hate to ask you what your sign is. Cause he may be Aquarius.

[00:04:52] **Jimmy Smith:** Nope. Nope. Sagittarius. That's all

[00:04:56] **Tony Tidbit:** right. That's all right. But I'm glad you love the water. I don't totally get it.

## [00:04:59] Jimmy's Early Life and Family

[00:04:59] **Tony Tidbit:** [00:05:00] So married kids. Tell us a little bit about that.

[00:05:02] **Jimmy Smith:** Yes. Got, um, been married to my high school sweetheart since, you know, since college, I met her the first day I got to school and, um, Then, um, got two sons born in Chicago and but raised on the west side of things and, um, L.

[00:05:21] **Jimmy Smith:** A. And also, um, Portland. And, um, you know, they're big now. They aren't. They aren't the boys anymore. They're young, young men. And I got two grandsons and I got a rocket and Prince and I got, um, Another one on the way. Her name is going to be retro Laura's willing. And I got two beautiful, um, um, daughter in laws.

[00:05:45] **Jimmy Smith:** I call them daughters. I don't stick the in law thing on them, but, um, McFly and Armani.

## [00:05:51] The Influence of Family and Early Experiences

[00:05:51] **Jimmy Smith:** So between smoke, keeping me straight, my wife and, and the rest of the family, doing all right, and I, we wouldn't be, you [00:06:00] wouldn't even be talking to me if it were not for my brother and sister D who's the executive producer.

[00:06:05] **Jimmy Smith:** Um, writer, creative extraordinaire, and then poetry. He was a, um, Grammy, not a Grammy, but a Tony award winning an Emmy award winning writer. Wow, buddy.

[00:06:17] **Tony Tidbit:** So look, I'm listening. Number one, you seem very blessed, beautiful family. They're still growing. Um, um, so I, you know, I love the names I'm hearing. Everybody has, they got, everybody's got a cool name.

## [00:06:30] The Power of Names and Identity

[00:06:30] **Tony Tidbit:** How, who does, what's the naming convention? How does that work? Then some of them in your family, some of them come

[00:06:35] **Jimmy Smith:** with it. But, um, you know, like Armani was born Armani, um, Rocket, my grand, one of my grandsons, he was, he was born, um, Rocket and, uh, but Smoke, I gave her the first, that name the first day I met her at, um, college, cause, um, I thought she was smoking.

[00:06:54] **Jimmy Smith:** So the first, that's how she got that one.

[00:06:58] **Tony Tidbit:** I love it, [00:07:00] buddy. So your creative juices started a long time ago and, and they're still, you know, activated

[00:07:06] **Jimmy Smith:** today. That's, and you know, I forgot Jor El is named after Superman's dad. That's my youngest son. I figured he'd be wondering why sequel was named after me and he wasn't.

[00:07:16] **Jimmy Smith:** So I said, well, we'll name you, name him Jor El. So I snuck that by smoke. She was never allowed if she, if he knew, if she knew he was named after a comic book character. So, but I had, you know, sequel had such a cool one. Every time somebody hears sequel, they go, ah, where did you get

[00:07:32] **Tony Tidbit:** that from? Exactly. That is awesome.

[00:07:35] **Tony Tidbit:** So listen, my friend, look, like I said, we're blessed to have you. And I don't say that lightly. Um, And in the audience, you can look up Jimmy Smith, and when you do, you'll see that he has been on pretty much every platform in terms of not just from a creative standpoint, but also from an interview standpoint.

[00:07:53] **Tony Tidbit:** I mean, from Ebony, LA Times, CNN, you name it. There's not Forbes. There has not been. a [00:08:00] platform that has not reached out to you and you've chatted and talked about your career, which is awesome. So the question I have for you is like, why did you, what was one of the reasons why you wanted to appear on a black executive perspective podcast?

[00:08:12] **Jimmy Smith:** Well, I met your daughter. I met your daughter at, uh, Medria blues, um, school six through 12th grade. Med, Medria, um, is. is a superstar and um, you talk about cool name. She's got a cool name and I'm, I'm sure I'm slaying it, but I, I love you Madrid and anyway, she built the school from the ground up. She had all these, um, dope kids at her, um, school and one of them was your daughter and she immediately came up to me while after I finished speaking and said, you gotta meet my dad.

[00:08:48] **Jimmy Smith:** You gotta meet my dad. He's He's doing this. He's doing that. And um, do you mind if I introduce you? And I said, of course. So you, you thank your daughter for that.

[00:08:58] **Tony Tidbit:** Look, buddy, I [00:09:00] did as soon as we

[00:09:00] **Jimmy Smith:** chatted. And anytime, um, I mean, I remember there weren't that many blacks at all in the industry when I was coming up, so I didn't have anybody to talk to.

[00:09:10] **Jimmy Smith:** And my dad was an entrepreneur. And I remember the things that he went through. you know, as a black man. And so anytime somebody was doing something positive and like you are brother, you and Adrian, I'm in.

[00:09:25] **Tony Tidbit:** Well, thank you, buddy. And we're glad that you're in because we want to dive into some of the stuff you even you talked about in terms of not seeing a lot of representation in the advertising industry.

[00:09:36] **Tony Tidbit:** But all that being said, like I said, ton of accolades, a ton of things that you have accomplished. So you ready to have this conversation? Let's

[00:09:42] **Jimmy Smith:** go. Let's do it. All

[00:09:44] **Tony Tidbit:** right. Let's talk about it.

## [00:09:45] The Impact of Racial Discrimination in Early Life

[00:09:45] **Tony Tidbit:** So you spoke a little bit in terms of where you grew up, which I believe was Muskegon, Michigan, um, right there on Lake Michigan, right?

[00:09:55] **Tony Tidbit:** Which, you know, started off your water, the love of love of water, [00:10:00] right? But talk a little bit about those early years growing up in Muskegon with your family. You talked about your father being entrepreneur and how That shaped you as you got ready to move forward into, to the advertising.

[00:10:13] **Jimmy Smith:** Well, we grew up in a, like I said, born in Muskegon and, uh, my mom was a school teacher in Muskegon Heights.

[00:10:20] **Jimmy Smith:** That's where all the blacks lived, um, at the time. And, um, So all my friends are black interacting with her students is a little little boy, um, black folks, black folks, black folks. We had the club. It was called the Cape Canaveral Club. All the blacks that were doing big things in Muskegon at organization and all the kids.

[00:10:44] **Jimmy Smith:** And then, um. When I was about four or five, we moved to an all white neighborhood and I was following, um, Dr. King NAACP. And, um, that was a shocker.

[00:10:59] **Tony Tidbit:** [00:11:00] Now, why was that

[00:11:02] **Jimmy Smith:** a shocker? Um, Up until that point, I had never been called.

[00:11:09] **Jimmy Smith:** What's that? The look in the faces. Don't don't see like they say, Hey, cool kid. What's up?

[00:11:15] **Tony Tidbit:** So, so in other words, that was your, uh, racial turning point, I

[00:11:19] **Jimmy Smith:** should say. Yes. Yes, um, that was bad. You know, I was getting in fights every other, um, every other day. It seemed like and, um, you know, different from today where if you get in a fight, you get expelled or whatever.

[00:11:34] **Jimmy Smith:** But I had the dopest, dopest principal. His name was Mr. How, and he was a white guy. And, um, this kid, you know, got in a fight with this kid. He called me and we, you know, you had to go to the principal's office, both, both of us. And, um, you know, after he got done scolding, doing what he, what needed to be done to that kid, um, he, he was just me and him [00:12:00] one on one and he explained, Jimmy, you can't fight everybody.

[00:12:05] **Jimmy Smith:** But you know what, what he was saying, I didn't get in trouble. I wasn't in trouble. He was. The kid was in trouble, but he was just explaining to me, um, I can't go swinging on everybody, but, um, but I did,

[00:12:25] **Jimmy Smith:** but he never, he never was angry with me at all. He was, he was, um, so he was one of the, one of the, um, one of the white guys who was in a position of authority. And so because of people like him, I knew that all white people weren't assholes. Right. Cause in the beginning, there was like, I don't know about these dudes.

[00:12:49] **Tony Tidbit:** And when you went, so you moved and went to an all white school, how many, you know, what was approximately the number of kids, people, kids of color in the [00:13:00] school?

[00:13:00] **Jimmy Smith:** Oh, when I say all white, I mean, you know, two, three. So

[00:13:07] **Tony Tidbit:** yeah, so got you. And how old were you at this time?

[00:13:10] **Jimmy Smith:** This was, um, this is kindergarten.

[00:13:13] **Tony Tidbit:** Wow, so, okay,

[00:13:15] **Jimmy Smith:** you were five, six years old?

[00:13:16] **Jimmy Smith:** Yeah, Jump Street. Um, I think I was six, because my birthday, I had a funny birthday, so I couldn't go right when I turned five. So, um, it was when I, I was Coming on six. I think so. Yeah, it was, um, it was only like two or three of us. It got a few more. Once by the time I got to high school, maybe five, six, you know, literally you can.

[00:13:48] **Jimmy Smith:** I had more fingers than I did, um, black kids that were at the school.

[00:13:54] **Tony Tidbit:** So how did that, I mean, growing up to, I mean, that's, that's a big, [00:14:00] that's a big contrast growing up all black neighborhood, all black school, and then young going to an all white school. hearing terms you never heard of before. Um, and then being in that environment, you said all the way through high school.

## [00:14:16] The Journey to a Career in Advertising

[00:14:16] **Tony Tidbit:** So how did that shape you as you started growing up and started thinking a little bit about what you wanted to do for a career standpoint?

[00:14:25] **Jimmy Smith:** Well, in the beginning, it was, um, all the trappings, but they were good, fun trappings. It led to me being able to do what I do today as a creative and as a writer.

[00:14:36] **Jimmy Smith:** But in the beginning, I want, you know, I wanted to be a singer like the Jackson 5, um, and the kids used to, um, bounce, the white kids used to bounce their hands on my Afro, right? And it's like, dude, come on now. And, but when the J5 came along, it was cool to have an Afro. Right. So I said, well, you know, I [00:15:00] should be in a singing group then, cause that, that'll be cool.

[00:15:03] **Jimmy Smith:** And as I grew, I'm, I'm pretty tall. So as I grew, I said, okay, well, I'll play basketball. That, that seems like a cool thing to do, but always in the back of my mind, um, my dad was an entrepreneur. So the pride that I had when he owned the Arby's, he, he owned the very first and still to this day, the only Arby's in Muskegon.

[00:15:28] **Jimmy Smith:** Um, he owned it and, and people I bring, we'd have a Pop Warner football or whatnot, have a game. And my white friends on the team, we were, we would go to Arby's and dad was feeding everybody. So it was like, yeah, yeah. So that I know that was in the dome. Like, okay, this is cool. Ownership is cool, but, um, but in the day to day, um, grind of it all the way up till, [00:16:00] um, fourth, first kindergarten through fourth grade was really interesting.

[00:16:04] **Jimmy Smith:** There was this kid named Jimmy Turner, black kid. He was, um, he wasn't in, in. He was like in sixth grade. I was like second grade or something like that. And, but he was being bussed in and he jumped off the bus and he beat my brains in literally his lover, bam, beat me up. And it's like, dude, what the hell do I got to do with where I'm living?

[00:16:34] **Tony Tidbit:** So you're getting it from both sides,

[00:16:37] **Jimmy Smith:** getting it from the white kids. You get it from getting, getting it from the black kids. But, uh, well that one in particular, it was basically him angry about the circumstances of where, um, um, where he was growing up, which wasn't a good neighborhood. And, um, so, you know, if I talked to him today, we could have a conversation and I'm sure drink beer [00:17:00] over it and whatnot.

[00:17:01] **Jimmy Smith:** But, um, it was real interesting because from that period on, I got my cousins in Gary, Indiana, and I got my other cousin on the other side of the, um, tracks. Um, uh, Mark and his and his family, my dad, my uncle Henry and all that. And then Angie and Keith, my cousins in, in, um, Gary, Indiana. So when we, and my mom.

[00:17:25] **Jimmy Smith:** And her sisters were extremely tight. So I'd be over at their house often, right? So I'd hear the J five for the first time. Never forget it. It was Keith brought the record over. Check this out. P funk, um, Al green, Marvin Gaye, all that stuff. Um, I'm hearing from when I go visit, but when I was going to my white friend's house, I'm hearing.

[00:17:51] **Jimmy Smith:** Um, you know, stuff that they were digging, which is Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, Bob Dylan, Brad, all that kind of stuff. So [00:18:00] it's real. That was really interesting. And then, like I said, as I got older, the getting called names, you know, and it wasn't just the kids. I'm talking about the adults. I'm talking about walking to school.

[00:18:13] **Jimmy Smith:** There's only a few blocks, um, the school, but when you're that age, it seemed like 10 miles or something like that. Right. And, um, the things that would go on from adults was, Pretty trippy. We actually had, um, one girl who was like my best friend, white girl and live kitty corner to us. And, um, her dad actually moved out of the neighborhood because, um, he thought we might get married.

[00:18:40] **Jimmy Smith:** We were second grade.

[00:18:41] **Tony Tidbit:** Wow. Wait a minute. Stop for a second. Dude moved out of the neighborhood because he thought you guys get married. You're seven years old. Yep.

[00:18:50] **Jimmy Smith:** Yep, true story. So it was deep. I didn't know that. I did not know that because we ended up [00:19:00] going to the same high school. I didn't end up finding that out until I was in high school.

[00:19:04] **Jimmy Smith:** I just thought, oh, they moved. Dang. That was one of my good buddies. Then that's, that's all I knew. How did you find out though? Um, one of her best friends who was also my best friend, um, told me, but we ended up going, like I said, going to the same high school and I was over at, um, her best friend's house and she told me, wow, I don't even think she was telling me.

[00:19:30] **Jimmy Smith:** I think. She told me cause she thought it was common knowledge.

[00:19:38] **Jimmy Smith:** I didn't know. So, but by the time I got to, um, junior high and I was hooping and, um, High school, it was, it, it all flipped and some of my best friends still to this day as those, some of those white kids, including, um, I haven't seen them in a while, but one of my starting, [00:20:00] starting forwards on the basketball team, white dude, Bobby Andre, um, he called, he had been watching all in the family.

[00:20:08] **Jimmy Smith:** So in, I don't know, fourth, fifth grade, he was calling me spade. So we would get into it over that. And the teachers handle it. I had really good teachers at that time. They, they would handle stuff, but, um, you would think we wouldn't grow up to be friends, but he was just a kid. He'd just seen, you know, what to do, whatever that character's name on TV, Archie Bunker saying so, but, um, he ended up being one of our best friends and still to this day, Chris Fitzpatrick.

[00:20:38] **Jimmy Smith:** is a homie, homie. And, um, he's over here in California. So a lot of an long like going on and on. A lot of those white kids were awesome. Kim Hubble, Sherry, I'm gonna leave somebody out. So I'm gonna stop.

[00:20:51] **Tony Tidbit:** No, no, no. All good though, buddy. Let me ask you this. So how did that, you know, in terms of a self esteem standpoint, you [00:21:00] know, how did that If it did it affect you at all in terms of, you know, you're you're being called names that you're not didn't even know what was about.

[00:21:08] **Tony Tidbit:** Um, and and again, you saying your friend who watched all and family called you spade, which kind of speaks a little bit to what we're going to get into when we talk about advertising, how somebody can see something over and it doesn't have a nice event. There's not a representation of it. People are going to automatically repeat it just like this nine year old kid did with you.

[00:21:28] **Tony Tidbit:** How did that make you feel as a person just being in that type of environment? You know, it's

[00:21:32] **Jimmy Smith:** the weirdest thing. Um, and it's tragic, tragic when I'm seeing, um, these kids committing suicide, um, because they were bullied at school. You know, I was just a step below. What you see in, um, you know, in the South when they were, um, desegregating the, um, the schools, right.

[00:21:56] **Jimmy Smith:** Couple of steps below that. I didn't have it as [00:22:00] that severe where you had to call in the national guard. It wasn't cool. Right. And, um, it was very usual to get bullied, um, up until about fifth. Fifth grade, probably it was very, it was unusual is something didn't go down that day. Right. But man, it, it, it made me stronger.

[00:22:25] **Jimmy Smith:** I had mom and dad are like, look at here. If he calls you this, then you call him this. They gave me a whole repertoire, a dictionary book of names to call him. And I didn't get in trouble if I, if I need to whoop somebody up, it was like, well, what did he do? Okay. Well, okay. Did you, you know, did you win?

[00:22:51] **Jimmy Smith:** Exactly. So I don't. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead, my friend. Go now finish it. So, um, I just didn't, [00:23:00] they, I had, they had my back. I had, um, the principal had my back when fighting with him. And so, um, and my parents always taught me that you need to be twice as good. This is the way it is. You need to be twice as good.

[00:23:17] **Jimmy Smith:** So make sure you handle that and my mom being a school teacher. So, you know, I wasn't like I wasn't into school like that, but you know, it was fine with my grades and whatnot. So it didn't make it. I didn't have any. It only had positive impact because what I was able to take into the workforce. It was very, very positive in the long run.

[00:23:44] **Jimmy Smith:** Short term, it was fucked up, you know, make no bones about it. That's what it was. But in terms of affecting me psychologically or some, um, I came out of it thinking I was a badass. But not in [00:24:00] a, um, hopefully not in an arrogant way, but it takes a lot, um, takes a whole lot to, you know, when something racist happens for it to, you know, for me to even get upset about it.

[00:24:13] **Jimmy Smith:** One thing I noticed, One thing I noticed, Tony, to this day, I didn't realize it, but I'll be in meetings. I've been in meetings and smoke is with me. She works at the company or somebody else's in there with me. And somebody said something they shouldn't have said or done or whatever, whatnot. And it won't register that they were offensive.

[00:24:32] **Jimmy Smith:** It doesn't register. And did you I didn't like when he said that that smoked up. I didn't like when she did this or whatever the deal was. And I said, what happened? I'm there. I'm at the meeting. Right. And I realized, um, as I got older, well, damn, that was my coping mechanism. And when I was growing up in there, if I, I literally, like Mr.

## [00:24:56] Dealing with Racism in the Workforce

[00:24:56] **Jimmy Smith:** House said, you can't fight everybody. I literally would have been fighting [00:25:00] every single day over every faux pas and distress, you know, so there were certain triggers. If you did this, you know, cross that is like, Oh, Hey, but a lot of this stuff, it didn't even register. Cause I had to do that in order to.

[00:25:16] **Jimmy Smith:** To make it through and that, that served me well in the workforce because, um, most of these dudes are racist. Now I'm not saying they're pointy hat races. They don't even know they're doing it, but I've had, I had, I hired this, this one woman when I started this car, I'll tell you this last one to shut up.

[00:25:33] **Jimmy Smith:** You ask you whatever follow up questions. Oh, good.

[00:25:36] **Tony Tidbit:** That's what we want. I want to listen

[00:25:37] **Jimmy Smith:** to the story. Go ahead.

## [00:25:38] Hiring a Strong Black Woman

[00:25:38] **Jimmy Smith:** I had, this is like, I had, my company was like a year old. And there's this one black chick. Oh, she's a soul power sister. You could have seen her in Oakland back in the Black Panther days and whatever.

[00:25:52] **Jimmy Smith:** Yeah, man, she, she was dope and she was a writer and I, and I hired her and I had, um, this [00:26:00] one, um, white guy who was a partner at the company and she was there a day. And he said, Jimmy, Jimmy, we, we can't keep her. We, we cannot keep her. And I said, what's wrong? Homie, home chick is, she's dope. What are you talking about?

[00:26:21] **Jimmy Smith:** Um, worked at Wieden Kennedy or worked on that. She's dope. Well, she called me an asshole. And I said, the first day? And I went and

[00:26:32] **Tony Tidbit:** talked to her.

[00:26:33] **Jimmy Smith:** And she said, yeah, I called him an asshole because he did such, such, such, such.

[00:26:38] **Tony Tidbit:** I said, you

[00:26:40] **Jimmy Smith:** could at least talk to me. I can. You can't call my partner and ask. I mean, did he call you a, a, you know, it, it was just she was feeling that vibe from him.

[00:26:51] **Jimmy Smith:** Right. But he hadn't called her, uh, you know, or anything like that. This, it was something we could easily talk about, but she was hyper [00:27:00] Right. Sensitive. Sensitive to it. Yeah. Where I was a little dumbed down on it. And, and, and, and, you know, I won't say any more about that, but I love that sister. She's dope.

## [00:27:10] Growing Up Black and Dealing with Racism

[00:27:10] **Tony Tidbit:** So, so, so speaking of that, right, just growing up the way you grew up and then you said the negativity that you face, it was positive because you know, it prepared you for the world, right? There was no sugarcoating it. You knew, but at the same time, to be fair to your point, um, you became desensitized to it.

[00:27:35] **Tony Tidbit:** So when stuff even happens today, you're less, you know, likely to say, well, back up a second. What did you say? Whatever the case may be, right? Let me ask you this.

## [00:27:46] The Role of Parents in Shaping Perspective

[00:27:46] **Tony Tidbit:** How, where was your mother in all of this? Cause it seems like, number one, it seems like you had a good foundation with your parents who taught you.

[00:27:55] **Tony Tidbit:** And to be fair, I'm just, you know, just, um, I grew up in Detroit. You grew [00:28:00] up in, in, in Muskegon, but my parents, my mother taught me the same thing. Right. You know, These are the things you have to deal with. You have to work twice as hard. So that same talk. So where was your mother? How did your mother help you prepare for life?

[00:28:16] **Tony Tidbit:** Um, in a world where, you know, you were the minority, you're the minority.

[00:28:21] **Jimmy Smith:** It was, it was, it was really interesting because, um, dad's family owned a bunch of land and, um, mom's family owned a bunch of land and she, um, her dad was a, he owned a mortuary. He actually owned a business. Right. So those, those were my parents.

[00:28:51] **Jimmy Smith:** So it was, when you say, how was my mom? It was a combo thing. And, um, she, she would come in from school, um, [00:29:00] whatever position she held. She wasn't the principal, but she, you know, she had a, um, Had a lot of say, I'm going to tell you what you're not going to do. I'm not, not talking to me, but talking about what happened at work and, um, her boss, black guy, black guy, or whatever it was, she was like, you're not going to do this.

[00:29:20] **Jimmy Smith:** I'm not doing this. And I'm going to do it this way. And so on and so forth. So I'm picking up on, on that stuff. And dad was laid back. So dad would, um, you know, here's, I remember coming home. We were on a swing set and we were rocking it too, too hard for, for the white neighbor. And he told us that, you know, get off that swing.

[00:29:47] **Jimmy Smith:** You're going to, you're going to me and my cousin, you're going to break it. And we went home and told my dad, but I didn't tell him that. This guy such a such a such a such it was like daddy. He told us to get off the swing cuz um you say who is he wait and it's [00:30:00] like uh oh that was unusual for dad that if I would if mine would have been this first one.

[00:30:04] **Jimmy Smith:** I saw she'd been already over it. So you would have expected that, but I had so I had that balance of. And thank God is a black male to be able to understand to keep your composure, even when, you know, you need, you, you should rightfully have to say something, but I learned a composure piece from dad and then mom was.

[00:30:29] **Jimmy Smith:** You know, when you need to open up a can, it was, it was a good balance.

[00:30:35] **Tony Tidbit:** So speaking of opening up a can, my friend, number one, thanks for sharing that. Um, but in speaking of opening up a can, how did you eventually migrate? Cause you ended up going to Michigan state.

## [00:30:49] The Influence of Television Shows on Career Choice

[00:30:49] **Tony Tidbit:** How did you get into the advertising industry? And the reason I'm going to ask you this question, um, and I just reflect back on my career.

[00:30:56] **Tony Tidbit:** Um, I didn't even know anything about advertising. I kind of [00:31:00] fell into advertising. And that fell into the advertising industry. So I'd love to hear from you. How did you say, Hey, this is something I want to try. I want to get into. There's two

[00:31:10] **Jimmy Smith:** things.

## [00:31:11] The Journey into the Advertising Industry

[00:31:11] **Jimmy Smith:** One is be which, and, um, the other one is Chris Fitzpatrick, our starting point guard and one of my best friends in, um, high school.

[00:31:21] **Jimmy Smith:** So, um,

[00:31:23] **Tony Tidbit:** So tell us about Beewitch, a lot of people, our audience, may be familiar

[00:31:29] **Jimmy Smith:** with Beewitch. Okay. Beewitch was a witch. And, um, and, and, and she was integrating herself into human Society. So, so it was a television show? Show? Yes. It was a television show. Television show. Look it up. Be. Um, they should look it up.

[00:31:48] **Jimmy Smith:** Be, which it was. It was a dope show, . So it was, um, Darren, Steve, 30 Minute, um, sitcom. Sitcom, Darren Stevens. Was the husband. Samantha Stevens was his [00:32:00] wife and Larry Tate was the, the, the stereotypical white dude and account guy. So if you've seen the white hair guys on mad men, that was Larry Tate. And, um, and Dora was the mother in law that was Samantha's mom.

[00:32:18] **Jimmy Smith:** And Darren, she didn't like Darren. She, it was like, it was like, uh, you know, white family, doesn't like the son in law and, but it was even deeper than that. When you look at it, it's like the white family and the daughter married a black dude. So back, back, especially back then. Right. So they hated, she pretty, pretty much, they, the, the, um, the in laws except for aunt Clara.

[00:32:47] **Jimmy Smith:** Hated there and they'd be turning them into a horse or putting some type of casting some spell on them. And Samantha, the whole gig was, uh, Samantha trying to get them to stop trying to get them [00:33:00] to accept Darren and trying to get them to, uh, uncast the spell, but Darren was an advertising executive. And when, when he was like, had the spell on him or something is, is about to be a disaster.

[00:33:14] **Jimmy Smith:** But when Samantha finally would convince her mom or her father to. Undo the spell he'd snap out of it, but they had a meeting at the house and Advertise the clients over and whatnot and he had to go downstairs and save the day and he would come Yeah, so the pop pop pop he keeps you popping or what? You know, whatever he'd say in the in the cloud go.

[00:33:38] **Jimmy Smith:** That's great I love it And there was, and I said, Oh wow, that's, that seems pretty cool. That didn't, I mean, he's got a beautiful wife. He's got a big house and he doesn't seem to work that hard. And, uh, I'm down with the, let me do that. And, um, and I still don't work hard to this day. My wife thinks I [00:34:00] work hard, but because I love it so much, it is not works.

[00:34:02] **Jimmy Smith:** But, um, she says I'm working all the time, but, um.

## [00:34:06] The Impact of Racial Bias in Job Opportunities

[00:34:06] **Jimmy Smith:** So it was that, but I didn't think much of it at the time. It wasn't until around ninth grade and mom asked me, what am I going to do? And I'm just trying to give her something. So she'll go away. Cause I'm going to hoop I'm playing in the NBA. That's what I'm doing.

[00:34:23] **Jimmy Smith:** Let me just give her something. I hadn't thought about it, thought about it. And I said, uh, uh, Fitz told me, Chris Fitzpatrick told me, um, he's going to go into advertising. So I told mom, I'm going to be an attorney. So she'd go away. But I remember Fitz's thing was he was going to go into advertising. So a couple of years later, after I had done some program with, uh, for attorneys, I said, I'm not going to school for seven years.

[00:34:50] **Jimmy Smith:** I'm not, you know, I'm not doing that. So let me do it. It's advertising thing. That's, that's what I'll do it. The basketball doesn't work out, but the basketball work [00:35:00] out. I had to worry about it. And my mom had a fit. You were going to be an attorney. You're going to be a lawyer. I said, yeah, but I'm not doing any of these things.

[00:35:09] **Jimmy Smith:** Do you not understand? I'm playing in the NBA. I didn't do any of it. So between fits and bewitch, that's how that came about.

## [00:35:20] The Drive to Prove Oneself in the Face of Discrimination

[00:35:20] **Jimmy Smith:** I love it, buddy. Oh, and one other thing, Tony. Yeah. That was along the way. I was always into the commercials when I was young, I was big time, uh, the alphabets with the Jackson five and them singing ABC, um, um, count Dracula, Chris cereal commercials.

[00:35:38] **Jimmy Smith:** Um, and then, uh, I like to teach the world to sing, um, the Christmas special, Charlie Brown Christmas special was brought to you by Coca Cola. Most people don't remember that. And then there, by the time I got in high school, soul train was the jam. And there is, that's where all your black commercials were on for Afro Sheen.

[00:35:59] **Jimmy Smith:** [00:36:00] And, but there was this joint called, um, Street Song, um, done by, um, Burrell Advertising. Tom Burrell's an advertising legend. Anna Morris. And I forget the art director's name. I'm sorry. Um, but that mug, Street Songs for Coca Cola. And that dude finishes up at the end. Coca Cola! I know I can't sing where the hillbinks.

[00:36:25] **Jimmy Smith:** But that was bananas and that always stuck in my brain. So when I, okay, well, if I don't, when I had to make that pivot, okay, this basketball ain't gonna work out. Who, who did that? And it ended up being Burrell advertising that ended up being my first gig.

[00:36:42] **Tony Tidbit:** So, so, so number one, I love it, my friend. I mean, think about it for a second.

[00:36:47] **Tony Tidbit:** And, um, you know, you watch a television show and you, the, the husband of the show was an ad exec. And you're like, wow, that's pretty cool. And then the next [00:37:00] thing, you know, your mother's all over you about what are you going to do for a career? And you said, I'm going to be an attorney. Right. But your friend said, I'm going into the advertising industry, but more importantly, you liked all the commercials.

[00:37:12] **Tony Tidbit:** You still remember them today. Okay. And so, you know, at the end of the day, just that, that little, um, that little trek right there, you know, made you go into an industry that, to be honest, you kind of. Really took off and did a lot of things and been a pioneer in a lot of areas. Um, I'm pretty sure you wasn't thinking of that in the ninth grade, because like you said, I'm going to be an NBA star

[00:37:39] **Jimmy Smith:** as it 100.

[00:37:42] **Tony Tidbit:** So tell us, man, because obviously there's a lot of people who watch this and listen to this are in the industry. How did you get that first shot? Um, you know, and I, and look, let's be fair tier, right? You know, you're African American. There isn't a lot of [00:38:00] African Americans or people of color in the advertising industry.

[00:38:03] **Tony Tidbit:** So how did you break in?

[00:38:05] **Jimmy Smith:** Tell you the truth. I mistakenly took what I had learned from, from sports into advertising. I thought you just need to be good. I thought that was, you know, if I'm better than you, then. You know, that's just the way it is.

[00:38:21] **Tony Tidbit:** So when you said that, you just thought you needed to be good.

[00:38:24] **Tony Tidbit:** Like, what did

[00:38:24] **Jimmy Smith:** you mean? What do you mean? There were a lot of ads that were terrible. Even, even I knew that back, back then I'm watching them. I said, I can do better than that. I can kill that. I can do this. They should. I was thinking that at a, at a young age. And, um, so you had to do a dope ad for it to stick in my brain.

[00:38:41] **Jimmy Smith:** And, um, I actually, you know, you hear about Colby or magic or, uh, MJ where they study the greats, I actually, I actually. Um, I actually studied, right? Actually, um, studied what those commercials without knowing I was [00:39:00] studying them. If you hear, if you hear about, um, magic Johnson and he's out there playing in his yard or playing it, they lived in the apartment complex.

[00:39:10] **Jimmy Smith:** He's playing on the court. He's playing the game. Um, from beginning to end, four quarters, overtime, timeout, all that kind of stuff. Chamberlain's out there, Kareem's out there and he's out there doing his thing. So I didn't, he didn't know he was. Well, maybe magic. Yeah, but yeah, magic. But I hear your point. I didn't, I didn't know I was, um, preparing myself to do, to do this.

[00:39:35] **Jimmy Smith:** Right. I just thought, well, they should have done it this way. They should have done it that way. So when the basketball didn't work out, I said, okay, let me put my, my portfolio together and I'll actually, um, you know, just send it in and that'll be that. And I'll get a job and I'll be cooking with Greece.

[00:39:53] **Jimmy Smith:** But, um, didn't happen that way that the first experience I had was, um, [00:40:00] Campbell Ewald in Warren, Michigan, and it was, um, 85 now sending my book out all over the place and, um, and. You know, there was no internet. So, and my name is Jimmy Smith and my mom's a school teacher. So we're using the Kings, no, the Queens English at that time.

[00:40:23] **Jimmy Smith:** And so, um, and I've been going to school with all these white kids and, you know, I'd go to black neighbor party and say, man, you talk proper. So I had that audit, um, shit going on, right? So, I, this, this woman, the internal headhunter from Campbell Ewald calls, Um, may I speak to Jimmy Smith? I'm at home, me and Smoke are at home, We're living with our parents, they've just gotten married.

[00:40:46] **Jimmy Smith:** And, um, she, she said, um, We have a job opening. I saw your portfolio. I think it's great and I want you to come in and, and, um, meet the creative director [00:41:00] because at that time there was a recession. So I said, um, she said, when would you like to come in? And I had just taken dad's car. To drive to Chicago for an interview.

[00:41:12] **Jimmy Smith:** I believe it was Burrell. I was driving the bro for the, um, interview. And so we just got back. I only tried to take dad's car like once a week, cause there wasn't like there were a whole bunch of ad agencies in Muskegon. So, um, I said, um, well, I just took dad's car. Can I come next week? Like I can come Monday or Tuesday.

[00:41:36] **Jimmy Smith:** And she said, Oh no, no, no, you need to come tomorrow. And it was strange at the time because first of all, you asked me when would I like to come in? And she said, you need to come in tomorrow. There was urgency, but it wasn't urgency in the beginning. And she said, I need for you to meet with the creative director because he's going on vacation and I'm afraid that if he goes on vacation, [00:42:00] you'll miss that opportunity because there is a job opening and I need for you to see him tomorrow.

[00:42:06] **Jimmy Smith:** I said, well, let me check with dad. Dad was cool. So they got a job opening. Yes, absolutely do that. So, um, got done with him. Um, called her back, told her. You know, basically, um, I can come what time? 9:00 AM I need to be there at 9:00 AM brother Tony Muskegon is over here.

[00:42:29] **Tony Tidbit:** Yep. Where'd you had to go? Warren, Michigan.

[00:42:32] **Jimmy Smith:** Okay. Outside of Detroit? Outside of Detroit. So, um, me and Smoke had to get up at 3:00 AM get dressed by four. That's like a three hour drive, right? Yeah, but well back then the, the speed limit was 55 miles an hour. Right, so, um, that, you know, got up at 3, got dressed by 4, wanted to make sure we were there super early on time in case there's traffic and what, which there was.

[00:42:59] **Jimmy Smith:** [00:43:00] And we did made it and, um, smoke drove so I could sleep and get some rest and be sharp for the interview. And I get there and, um, I meet with the woman and she's going through my portfolio like she'd never seen it before. And I'm like, man, this is odd because, um, she's already seen seen it. That's why, that's why I'm here.

[00:43:22] **Jimmy Smith:** And then I saw she's trying to buy time because the creative director's in a meeting, no biggie. And just chill. The meeting is wrapping up is finishing. I said, I guess I better say something. I said, well, um, so, um, what am I, what time am I meeting the creative director? And she goes, Oh no, no, no. You're meeting the creative director.

[00:43:45] **Jimmy Smith:** I just wanted to meet you.

[00:43:48] **Tony Tidbit:** She didn't say that when

[00:43:50] **Jimmy Smith:** you talked to her on the phone, she didn't say that when I talked to her. I said, well, you're going to make me next week. She said, no, I just wanted to meet, meet you. I said, well, okay, but [00:44:00] what about the job opening? Oh, there's no job opening. For real? For real. For real, for real. And I'm like And I'm starting to become not, not rude, combative, but no, you said, Oh, she knows black.

[00:44:19] **Tony Tidbit:** Uh, buddy, I'm be honest with you. I, cause I'm like, what happened? But she didn't

[00:44:25] **Jimmy Smith:** know you were, she had no idea. Like I said, this is before the internet, before FaceTime and. All that kind of stuff. Name is Jimmy Smith. It was, it wasn't Kareem at, you know, yes,

[00:44:39] **Tony Tidbit:** it wasn't Abdul or

[00:44:40] **Jimmy Smith:** just good old or smoke the Sean.

[00:44:44] **Jimmy Smith:** It wasn't nothing like that.

[00:44:46] **Tony Tidbit:** So, so she didn't know you were black and then all of a sudden changed the, the opportunity. You can't meet with the creative director. You know, I just wanted to meet

[00:44:56] **Jimmy Smith:** you. Thanks a lot. It is that gig [00:45:00] evaporated. So that's when I, that's when I said, Oh, this is like, this is like back to kindergarten, first grade, second grade.

[00:45:10] **Jimmy Smith:** Again, this is starting all over again. Cause I'm not a basketball player. Right. And here we go again. So that's when I

[00:45:19] **Tony Tidbit:** knew. How did that make you feel though, buddy? What, what, well, on that three hour, four hour drive back to Michigan, I mean, back to Muskegon, what was going through your mind?

[00:45:29]

## [00:45:29] The Importance of Being Ten Times Better

[00:45:29] **Jimmy Smith:** I will show you, you, you, you will, you, you will regret that, um, that happened because I tell that story.

[00:45:39] **Jimmy Smith:** Every opportunity I get, if it comes up, I tell it and let them know and I'm not mad at them, but don't do that no more. And, and, and then I was just, it was good. It was, it was obviously it was tragic and, and screwed up, but it was good to know what I was walking into. [00:46:00] Cause I didn't know what I was sending out my portfolio and wasn't getting any love.

[00:46:04] **Jimmy Smith:** And I just thought, well, you know, I'd read, um, Maxine Pietro's, how to put your book together and get a job in advertising. And so I'm following all these steps. And people, when I'd send my letter, I wrote, um, I could write really well from a young age. So when I'd send out my letter, it wasn't a conventional, Hi, my name is Jimmy Smith.

[00:46:23] **Jimmy Smith:** I'm looking for employment. It was, you know, a creative letter and everybody would go, Oh, this is great letter and this and that. And so it started explaining some things like what was going down. So, uh, I said, I said to mom and dad. You were wrong. I don't have to, I don't need to be twice as good. I'm going to have to be 10 times as good to get to crap this one, but I was up to the task.

## [00:46:48] The Experience at Burrell, an African American Owned Agency

[00:46:48] **Jimmy Smith:** I was like, I'm excited to do it. And it also got me in the Burrell, which, um, you know, my first taste of advertising was Burrell. So I got all these black folks. [00:47:00] Um, Burrell is, uh, the, one of the first, um, African American owned agencies. In the United States in the history of the United States is one of the first, right?

[00:47:09] **Jimmy Smith:** So, and the audience that we were marketing to was black. So I got to be get eased in, you know, how they take a quarterback and like they had Patrick Mahone start behind Alex Smith and kind of learn for a little minute. So I got to ease into it with people that look like me, talk like me, acted like me and was trying to do that type of work from the culture.

[00:47:35] **Jimmy Smith:** Um, so if I would have gone in to, um, a white ad agency right off the back, trying to do what I was doing, that wasn't going to happen. A black executive [00:48:00] perspective.