Narrator [00:00:04]:

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the voice of global supply chain. Supply Chain Now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today's critical issues, the challenges, and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on Supply Chain Now.

Scott W. Luton [00:00:32]:

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, Scott Luton and always special guest, Mike Griswold, here with you on Supply Chain Now. Welcome to today's show. Hey, Mike, how you doing today?

Mike Griswold [00:00:42]:

Doing great, Scott. Great to be with you again. Hard to believe it's been a month. It feels like just yesterday we were talking about things. So I'm excited.

Scott W. Luton [00:00:49]:

Oh, I'll tell you, velocity speeding up across industry. I think it's impacting the hours in the day too. But hey, we'll save that for another show, folks. Back by popular demand, one of our longest running and most popular series, Supply Chain Today and Tomorrow with the one and only Mike Griswold with Gartner. So Mike, of course you all know this, serves as vice president analyst with Gartner. And today, folks, is just about Thanksgiving. And that is my favorite holiday of the entire year. No gifts, no stress, just good food, family and football to three Fs, right.

Scott W. Luton [00:01:25]:

So on that note, with all the gratitude this time of year that fortunately brings us all, hopefully I'm going to see what supply chain trends that Mike Griswold is most thankful for as we approach the end of the year. So folks, stay tuned for a wonderful, intriguing conversation with me and Mike here today. So Mike, fun warm up question, folks know what's coming, right? It's my favorite holiday chiefly because of the food. So today's fun warm up question is simple and apropos. What is one of your favorite Thanksgiving food dishes? And what's one of your least favorite dishes? Mike?

Mike Griswold [00:02:04]:

So the favorite is a pretty easy one, Scott. My wife makes a very good pumpkin pie. She makes the crust from scratch. It's by far the best pie that we have for Thanksgiving. So it's going to be her pumpkin piece. It's interesting, Scott, cause there's not a lot I don't like about Thanksgiving. So hard to think about. I mean, if there was one thing which I which will probably sound sacrilegious is I'm not, I'm not a huge cranberry guy.

Scott W. Luton [00:02:32]:

Okay.

Mike Griswold [00:02:33]:

And it's not that I don't like cranberries. It tends to be a prioritization problem for me, right. The plate is only so big. I've got the turkey, the stuffing, the Gravy the squash, the mashed potatoes, and then cranberries are kind of an afterthought, and then I just don't have room. So not that I just like cranberries, but they. They just are farther down my thought process and they end up getting left off. So those would be the two.

Scott W. Luton [00:03:00]:

I'm with you halfway. I'm with you halfway. So cranberry sauce, I've never like. I like my savory stuff savory and my sweet stuff sweet. So I don't like it on turkey or dressing like my dear wife Amanda does. But there's not much I don't like. Green beans, fried turkey, Mac and cheese, potato salad. One of my favorites of all time.

Scott W. Luton [00:03:23]:

But where I kind of differ from you, I'm not a big pumpkin pie fan. I love pecan pie. But I think one time as a kid, Mike, I ate too much pumpkin pie. And I think that that has stayed with me all these years later. So I'm sure your wife makes a wonderful pumpkin pie, but I am pecan pie all the way with real. Either ice cream or homemade whipped cream.

Mike Griswold [00:03:48]:

Yeah, I. Up here or out here, I should say, in Idaho, we. We don't get. We don't have the quality of pecan pie that you have. Pean pie is my favorite pie, hands down. Usually, usually if it's the first thing on the dessert menu, I don't get to the rest of the dessert menu because I don't care after that, if there's pean pie. I'm. I'm all in for that.

Mike Griswold [00:04:09]:

It's interesting. I've. I've tended to have that reaction around pumpkin pie, more around adult beverages and necessarily food. But I know exactly where you're coming from. Sometimes those things stick with you for a lifetime, fortunately or unfortunately so.

Scott W. Luton [00:04:26]:

And there's a Goldschlager story on my end there, which I'll save for when I get much, much older. A couple of quick. You know, we've been pulsing our audience, our guests, these questions and other favorites we've heard from folks. Ooey gooey spinach loaf. And Karen said, hey, don't. Don't let the title of the dish get you. It is delicious. And then grandma's rice.

Scott W. Luton [00:04:49]:

We had a wonderful Stephanie and Catherine, mother, daughter, supply chain, dynamo story. And one of the things they've told us about was this special grandmom's rice dish. So, hey, it sounds great. I'm a load up the plate. We'll have to taste it and get all the recipes. Yes, but Mike, we got a lot to get to here today. And the main theme is all about in this season of gratitude, several supply chain trends that we are most grateful for here today. And I think you've got three to share and then I've got a few I'm going to add on, so what's number one here today, Mike?

Mike Griswold [00:05:21]:

So let's keep this fairly recent and topical. I'm going to use an overarching umbrella of around risk management disruption and resilience, I think, and the focus that people have put on that kind of post-pandemic. But even now after Tuesday, right. There's been a lot of, I guess for those folks, maybe not from the US we had a huge election on the first Tuesday of November and there's been lots of speculation and discussion around what the new administration might put in place around policies, right. We've heard things around tariffs all of a sudden. And you know, I think when we think about companies going through COVID and we've had conversations on this show, Scott, around risk management and resilience and how do you create what we refer to in Gartner as antifragile supply chains, right? This idea of having a risk playbook, this idea of reviewing that risk playbook fairly frequently and I think the fact that people have been doing that, the fact that people have been updating that risk playbook, trying to become more resilient. We've had conversations here around diversification of manufacturing, right.

Mike Griswold [00:06:39]:

Going to different countries for manufacturing. We've had discussions around different modes of transport. How do you diversify that? So the fact that people, or the thing that I'm grateful for is the fact that we didn't when COVID was over, we didn't put the risk book on the shelf and kind of leave it there. We were pretty diligent, most companies around examining that and keeping it as current as you can. I think the other thing that we have talked about in the past is this idea of not falling into the trap of trying to predict everything that could happen, but rather create an infrastructure of resiliency within your supply chain so that you can quickly respond. I think one of the examples that I think we've learned from that we didn't necessarily do well during COVID was reacting to the fact that we were going to have physical stores shut down for significant periods of time, right. No one had that in their playbook.

Mike Griswold [00:07:43]:

And I think for really good reasons, right. No one saw that coming even in the early stages of the pandemic. I don't think Anyone made the leap that we're going to actually close stores, physical stores, for significant periods of time. And I think people are now much, much better at thinking of some of those scenarios that may be less likely and how are we going to respond to those. And I think after our election here in the United States, there's a lot more, there's many more organizations reviewing that playbook to see what do we need to do in certain scenarios, you know, what are the capabilities that maybe we haven't invested in as quickly or as consistently as maybe we should have. So I think what I'm thankful for and grateful for is the fact that we develop those playbooks and those risk mechanisms and we have that good muscle memory that we're going to need again, I think, over the next few months and then potentially over the next couple of years.

Scott W. Luton [00:08:47]:

Undoubtedly, Mike, as I've heard it put one of our other guests, as he talks about kind of the four buckets, four big buckets of risk from on one end, your known knowns to all the other other end, the unknown unknowns and all points in between. Two of the things I heard you say there is the, the value of targeted scenario planning and modeling, right.

Scott W. Luton [00:09:11]:

Instead of, you know, doing the whole ecosystem, all the possibilities, very targeted. And then kind of at the same time, though, just like we didn't, so many folks had no idea the brick and mortar is going to shut down far and wide everywhere. I think more supply chain leaders as they examine the risk. And what I'm hearing you say is they're adding more permutations of what might factor into the path ahead. Is that right, Mike?

Mike Griswold [00:09:40]:

That's very well said, Scott. Yes.

Scott W. Luton [00:09:42]:

Okay. Permutations, they don't let me use that word too often around here. You gotta have a certain intellect. And I fall just short of that bar pretty regularly. But Mike all right, so the first one is that risk mitigation, risk management, I think number two you're gonna talk about is disruption.

Mike Griswold [00:09:58]:

No, I think, I think that was, it could be in that category. Scott. But I think when I think about the risk management stuff, there is an element of disruption in there. The second one that I'm going to highlight I think does or could be impacted as the new administration comes in. And one of the teams that I'm responsible for is around sustainability. And we've taken a lot of calls in the last 12 to 18 months around scope three. scope three emissions, and in particular carbon. And for those who may be not quite as familiar, scope three are the emissions and the Carbon that's produced by your suppliers.

Mike Griswold [00:10:38]:

scope one, scope two, pretty straightforward. Those are the things that you control. Electricity, trucks, transportation, the CO2 emitted by your transportation fleet and so on. Those are all scope one, scope two, scope three is really around the suppliers. And what we're hearing from our clients is this real desire to understand how can we take some of these things out of the environment? How can we become more sustainable through partnering with our suppliers? If you talk to many organizations, I think they feel pretty good about the work that they've been doing around scope one. scope two. If you look outside the United States, a lot of that is being pushed through regulations. If you look to Europe as an example, there are a lot of existing regulations and I would say imminent regulations that are going to force people into some of these sustainability discussions that haven't necessarily happened here yet.

Mike Griswold [00:11:36]:

And I think depending on where the current or the future administration puts an emphasis on those types of things or not, and to the degree that it looks like where those legislation would originate is going to be in a more conservatively held part of our government, we may not see the regulation type of push that we see in other places in the world. Regardless of that, though, it really comes down to these exercises around supplier segmentation. You know what suppliers, you know what we traditionally think of supplier segmentation. It's all about spend. And so what suppliers do we spend the most money with? And I think to a degree, some of that is still relevant, but it's also, I think, relevant how much carbon do those suppliers produce as well? And how do we start to segment our suppliers that way? How do we use technology to help track those emissions from our suppliers and our own emissions? So I think regardless of the political environment, there is enough pressure outside the United States for companies that are global, right? You may not necessarily have to worry about it for US operations, but if you have operations pretty much in Europe, regulations are coming fast and furious and they're going to be targeted around this idea of scope three. So what am I thankful for around that? What I'm thankful for is we have places to look like Europe. We have companies to look at, like companies in Europe who've already started to embrace this idea of scope three.

Mike Griswold [00:13:08]:

So there's things that we can learn. We have some case studies that we're going to be publishing in the not too distant future around companies that have done specifically things like segmentation with an eye towards scope three. We've got some technology research to help people understand what role can technology play in this. So We've got the groundwork, I think, for this, Scott, but I also think it's, you know, if I say grateful but also add hopeful, I'm going to put kind of both of those together because I'm grateful that we've got the framework. I'm hopeful that we'll be able to put some of those frameworks in place to help start to work on some of these scope three challenges that we have.

Scott W. Luton [00:13:48]:

Yeah, we could do a whole library of series and conversations around this, this second thing that you're grateful and hopeful for. And that's a good way of putting it. I would, I would just add, when you look at analysts and the economists, all that stuff, there's lots of similarities in some of the vision between the two major presidential candidates, right. There are some stark differences too, though, of course. And one of the big stark differences I think is what we're talking about here in terms of how each one would approach either speed up or slow down the regulatory environment here in the states of what, how fast that would, that would manage, how fast companies need to make more progress when it comes to scope one, scope two, scope three, you name it. The good news here, politics aside, Mike, is you, you got a carrot and a stick, right? And with regulations, oftentimes they're talking about stick, right. But the good news is, and where I've learned a lot more this past year on some of our conversations, Sparq360 great team over there have helped me better understand that despite whatever regulatory environment it is, we can use sustainability outcomes and an optimized approach there and results there as revenue drivers.

Scott W. Luton [00:15:00]:

Because regulation, no matter where that is here in the states and elsewhere, sustainable companies, sustainable ecosystems are in demand. And the companies that are leaders there and can show the visibility across their ecosystem and the gains they're making, they can use that as a tool to get more business. And I'm not a big fan of glazed carrots on the Thanksgiving table, but I love carrots when it comes to revenue and performance incentives. Mike, does all that make sense to you? Is that, is that similar to what you're seeing out there?

Mike Griswold [00:15:33]:

It is, and I think it's interesting. You know, I think the, the European approach has really started with, I would say the stick only from the standpoint. And the reason I characterize that is it's really through regulations.

Scott W. Luton [00:15:49]:

Right.

Mike Griswold [00:15:49]:

And it's around, you know, regulations to drive compliance. I'm a firm believer that, you know, you get more flies with honey than with vinegar, I think, is the saying. So I'm Much more of a carrot person, right. You know, I, I go back to my, my basketball practices, right. That we just started our season, you know, at the beginning of, of the month. You know, I, I would much rather tell the girls, hey, let, let's do this drill correctly and we don't have to run versus doing this drill incorrectly and we're going to run, right.

Scott W. Luton [00:16:24]:

Right.

Mike Griswold [00:16:25]:

So you're putting the, really, you're empowering in my example, the girls to do it right and then have the care. And I think what we need to think about is how do we incent and empower organizations to do the right things around partnering with their suppliers and those types of things. And how can we, you know, to the best of ability, avoid the regulation piece? Because my experience has been, and I'll narrow this to the United States, cause I haven't seen this necessarily in operations outside the U.S. we don't have a great track record of putting in regulations in a minimal bureaucracy type of environment. It's like we have this regulation. So now we need this group to kind of monitor and enforce and police. And that group tends to get, you know, larger.

Mike Griswold [00:17:16]:

I think that we need to deal with the regulation. So, right. That's why I'm much more in favor of let's find some incentives, let's get people to want to do this, to your point, which was a great one, so that we can generate positive business outcomes and at the same time, right.. You know, make the planet a little bit better place.

Scott W. Luton [00:17:35]:

So, yeah, you know, Mike, I would be remiss if I didn't say if Ms. Hayes, my ninth grade psychology teacher, I think it was ninth grade, and the students affectionately called her Purple Hayes after the Jiimi, Jimi Hendrix album. But there's a psychological, there's a psychological play here too, because as we're talking about the carrot and stick or honey and vinegar, as you were, as another analogy, different organizations, different leaders react to different ways of being motivated. And unfortunately, some of the, I'll call it some of the laggard organizations that just aren't going to move unless you force them with big penalties. That's what's in some cases required. I'm like you. I'm hoping that the demand for more sustainable outcomes and demand for cleaner operations, less carbon, less empty miles, all the good stuff that comes with that will drive more change. So we'll see, Mike. But I think that's an excellent one that I'm also grateful and hopeful for. On your list, what is number three, Mike?

Mike Griswold [00:18:36]:

Yeah, I saved the third one for the end, Scott, because, you know, some people, I think, are not grateful for this, for, for some good reasons for. But for me, it's the whole discussion topic around artificial intelligence. I'm grateful for that because I think what's emerged over the last probably year, year and a half has been some really exciting use cases around how AI can drive business performance for organizations. And I think without that, without the kind of the unlocking of the value of AI, you know, we would still be doing a lot of things the same old way, you know, and really missing out on some of the, not only the efficiency opportunities that AI provides us, but also some of the other, you know, business benefits we can get through. Things like using AI in the forecasting area and creating better forecasts. I think, you know, it's certainly AI is still not without its challenges. And I think people need to be very prescriptive around the problem they're trying to solve. And is AI, generative AI, all those types of things, are they the right solution for that problem? You know, for example, you know, you could use AI to screen candidates based on reading resumes, right? And you can use AI to screen suppliers and their contracts based on preset criteria.

Mike Griswold [00:20:15]:

We probably don't want AI actually picking job applicants or actually picking suppliers. I think we want those personal interactions where we can gauge emotion, where we can ask specific behavioral types of questions. So I think there's definitely an opportunity for the use of AI. I'm grateful that it has been uncovered and started to be unlocked. I still think, though, there's a responsibility for us to smartly deploy it in the situations where it's going to be the most successful. And I think where companies tend to struggle is being at the two ends of the extreme. One, I don't see any use case at all for AI, so I'm going to ignore it. And the other end of the spectrum saying I'm going to use AI for everything.

Mike Griswold [00:21:06]:

I think what smart companies have figured out is the truth is, and the benefits lie somewhere in the middle, right.? Where we've used AI maybe to augment some of our decisions, where we've used AI to maybe narrow a big list into a smaller list, those types of things. So that's why I think there's still a lot of untapped potential. And again, if I put maybe the hopeful hat on, you know, I continue to be hopeful that we're going to, you know, figure out the most effective ways for us to use that technology to drive, you know, business results.

Scott W. Luton [00:21:44]:

The right gear, the right gear and for the right problem, the right tech for the right problem. Well said there, Mike. I am grateful and hopeful for all three of those things as well. I'm going to share three quick thoughts. They're not quite as full as what you've shared here with us. And then I'm going to get your reaction to any one of the three. And the first one kind of plays on what you just what you just shared there. I love seeing this notion of how small and medium sized businesses and how the more and more they're competing with the bigs in all sorts of new ways and finding success.

Scott W. Luton [00:22:17]:

And of course the democratization of technology is not a new trend, but we're seeing, I think some new ways of it taking place. AI is one is one example and technology AI, many other versions of technology is that grand equalizer, right, where these SMBs can really, they can take advantage of what the bigs could only afford and pay for for years and years and years. So that's, that's pretty neat. Secondly, another common thread that I've seen like omnipresent in our conversations with, with supply chain leaders really all year and that's how important it is critically important to make life easier on our people, protecting that precious work-life balance. You know, that's one element from the pandemic in many ways that I'm hoping continues to stick despite technology's ability, kind of on the bad side to follow our team members home to dinner tables and the ball fields or gymnasiums or where you are or dance recitals on the weekend. More and more business leaders are working. From what I've seen and the folks I've spoken to and what we're trying to do here is protect the quality of family time. And here's just one data point.

Scott W. Luton [00:23:29]:

And again, it takes an army of data points maybe to really get a sense of what's going on out there. But according to a recent survey of 200 logistics professionals conducted by Protom, 75% of the workers said they are satisfied with current levels of work-life balance. That's not 100%. We still got some work to do. And 35% was still like more flexible working hours. But hey, that's a good data point in the right direction, I think. And then finally, and on a related note, right, I love talking about the human factor. And with the beautiful human factor that makes things happen in global supply chain come great responsibilities for the leaders they work for and the companies they work for.

Scott W. Luton [00:24:10]:

And a big part of that is prioritizing the safety and welfare of our workforce. Here's another. Here's a great data point. The U.S. department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics released data recently that showed injuries and illnesses among manufacturing workers. It decreased 10% from 2022 to 2023. That's wonderful news. And while this next data point is a bit, you don't, you don't like to think about workplace deaths, but unfortunately it goes with the territory.

Scott W. Luton [00:24:41]:

We get this OSHA, aka the Occupational Health and Safety Administration, right. OSHA investigated 11% fewer worker deaths in 2024 than it did in 2023. That's moving in the right direction. Of course, there's not a finish line till we hit zero. But both of those I take solace in and I'm grateful and hopeful for that. So, Mike, one on technology, small and bigs, using it to compete better against bigs. I love that movement. And the last two were focused on really protecting work-life balance, safety and health of our workforce.

Scott W. Luton [00:25:18]:

What's one of your reactions there?

Mike Griswold [00:25:20]:

Yeah, I think it's the people side, Scott. We've done a lot of research around this idea of the employee value proposition, evp, and what we're finding is it's becoming more and more important from the associate perspective around that work-life balance. And it factors into everything from, you know, someone's first job, right. What's my sense of that work-life balance to someone's, you know, in mid career or end of career asking themselves, you know, does my current situation give me that balance, those opportunities outside of work that, that I want to pursue. So, you know, one of the things we'll need to keep an eye on, I think, is, you know, we've seen more and more organizations start to push a little bit more return to the office type of environments. You know, what our research suggests is there is not, we don't have data to suggest that that makes people more productive, more creative and more collaborative. What our data does suggest is during the pandemic in remote environments, we still managed to get a lot of work done and we still manage to be collaborative.

Mike Griswold [00:26:31]:

We still manage to create and generate new ideas and great new ideas, from products and services to innovation. So to me, it is the work-life balance is the one that I think will be the most interesting to keep an eye on over the next several years. You know, as people evaluate, you know, their current situations, you know, do they want to move and then, you know, from a skill set perspective, what does that mean to the skills within our, within our own organization? Are we creating some self inflicted wounds by some of these back to office mandates that we potentially run the risk of losing good talent because they'll find another opportunity that maybe has a better balance. So that work-life balance I think Scott is going to be is huge. It's something that we at Gartner pay a lot of attention to. And yeah, I think a lot of our clients pay attention to that balance as well.

Scott W. Luton [00:27:25]:

Yeah, Mike, it's interesting. When my kids get a little older, I can't wait to share with them some of my prior to becoming an entrepreneur entrepreneur. Some of the employer expectations of after hours work, weekends work. I can remember coming into the plant one day to review blueprints on Labor Day because we were trying to hit this deadline and it was kind of expected. I remember Amanda getting a call for someone she was working for years ago at 10pm on a Saturday night to get her to do something, you know, and fast forward to 2024. That's crazy, right? People aren't going to put up with that kind of stuff. But you know, things evolve. Things evolve.

Scott W. Luton [00:28:08]:

Okay, Mike, I'm excited. I've heard so many good things about the supply chain planning summit that took place in London a month or so ago. And of course you've got the next one coming up in Denver in December. Our dear friend Karin Bursa doing great things in supply chain. Of course, one of our wonderfully talented Supply Chain Now co-hosts here. She'll be there. Mike, why should folks, if they've had their head in the sand somewhere, what's one reason folks should come out and check out those planning summits?

Mike Griswold [00:28:38]:

Yeah, it's a great way to keep abreast of what's happening in the planning environment. You know, at least our perspective from a people, process and technology perspective. You know, what, what's happening in the planning world. We have a great collection of suppliers in our solution showcase. So you have a mix of hearing from us on trends and practices, hearing from your peers, but also if you're in the, in the need for some technology support, it's a great one stop shop to look at planning, you know, planning solution providers. You are one of the, one of the women on my team is delivering the keynote. Her name is Lindsey and it's an excellent keynote around the evolution of planners into what we're referring to as decision shapers and the personas that need to be emerging within planners to be able to be those true decision shapers. So I'm excited for it.

Mike Griswold [00:29:39]:

That particular keynote did really, really well in London and I'm excited to see how it does in Denver.

Scott W. Luton [00:29:45]:

Well, I love it. I've heard lots of key takeaways, especially about the keynotes and a lot of the data presented, a lot of perspective presented, but also just at a higher level, the leadership perspective far beyond the data points and the technologies. Lots of great perspective and positive feedback is what I'm hearing. So I hope I can't make Denver, Mike, but I want to make the next planning summit and will it be London and Denver again in 2025? Anything you can share there?

Mike Griswold [00:30:15]:

Yes, it should be. Yeah, it would be great to see you there, Scott. The last thing I'll say on that, much like what we've tried to do with our supply chain symposiums is just start to elevate some of these roles within the supply chain. Chief Supply Chain Officer for our symposium planners for our summits just to bring to the forefront the importance of this role in an effective supply chain and how can people in that role. You'll get better. So we're excited to be able to shine, at least for a couple of days, the spotlight on demand planning. Somewhere, somewhere, Greg White, I know is super excited that we've got these planning summits and that we're continuing to highlight the important role of planners in any supply chain.

Scott W. Luton [00:31:00]:

Yes, I bet my hunch is he is down there enjoying the beautiful weather of Hilton Head island in South Carolina while he continues to do big things in industry. So and kidding aside, I love lifting up the incredibly important role of the planner. They are the superheroes across supply chains everywhere. So kudos to the Gartner team for doing just that in many ways. Okay, last question Mike, the billion dollar question. How can folks connect with the one and only Mike Griswold?

Mike Griswold [00:31:29]:

Sure, LinkedIn email probably in reverse order. I'm much more responsive to emails than I am to LinkedIn. But yeah, love to hear from folks and any questions around any of our research in sustainability talent, broader supply chain, just reach out to me. I'm happy to help.

Scott W. Luton [00:31:45]:

And just a heads up, if you want to bribe Mike, the way to do it is not with cranberry sauce. The way to do it maybe is on the pumpkin pie side or really authentic in season pean pie. So I'll just a little advice for you there. Big thanks as always Mike Griswold, Vice President Analyst with Gartner. Mike, love these conversations we've been having monthly going back feels like since the dinosaur days. But I really have enjoyed and we hear a lot from our global audience. So thanks for taking time.

Mike Griswold [00:32:11]:

My pleasure. Looking forward to December.

Scott W. Luton [00:32:14]:

So, folks, I'll tell you what, another episode. Got some golden nuggets here from Mike Griswold. But you got homework. The challenge is you got to take one thing, one thing he's grateful for or hopeful for and share it with the team. Let's change how business is done with. The opportunities abound. But we got to put it in action. Deeds, not words.

Scott W. Luton [00:32:35]:

So with all that said, on behalf of the entire team here at Supply Chain Now, Scott Luton, challenging you - do good, give forward, be the change that's needed. Happy holidays, Happy Thanksgiving, enjoy it with the family, and we'll see you next time right back here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks, everybody.

Narrator [00:32:51]:

Thanks for being a part of our Supply Chain Now community. Check out all of our programming at supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and Follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain Now.