in this episode, we're delighted to have on Emma Cottington, who is a journaling therapist, and she's come on today to chat to us about the benefits of journaling for anybody who's nervous driving, and also to talk about her learner driver logbook, which uses journaling as part of it. So, hi Emma. Thanks for joining us.

Hi. Thanks for having me.

No problem at all. So Emma, obviously I know you quite well with what we've done training wise. Can you just explain. What a journaling is. If someone is never heard of journaling before, how would you describe journal?

I think, the best way to describe it is as a pen and paper, brain dump, an organized pen and paper brain dump. I think the. The point to it is to not be too sort of structured, so not to get too involved in that brain dumping and just kind of let the pen and the paper flow, it's your connection to your thoughts that you might not even realize was in there.

Fantastic. I love that. So it's just a put everything down on a bit of paper, out your mind.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's the best thing that I love about journaling is there is no rules. There's no rules to it. There's no right, there's no wrong. You can't get it wrong. And you know, you've not gotta follow a certain way or method or anything like that. You can literally just do whatever you want on the paper. Most of it's prompted or can be prompted. But I also journal literally on pieces of scrap paper if I feel I need to empty the mind at any time. If there's pen and paper's there, then it, it goes on the pen and it goes on the paper, and that's, that's it.

Sounds interesting. It's, but I've done a little bit of journaling, but I suppose I'm too busy. That's my problem. I just

Never too busy for a journal Kev. Never too busy.

Well, that's probably, that's probably what it is, isn't it? Because you're too busy. It's like, why am I too busy? And that would be then to

It would be the reason. Yeah, absolutely. Would be the reason. I mean, I, I started journaling, God, it must be four or five years ago now. What started, probably, probably would've said exactly what you've just said. I've done a bit and I did a bit then, but I'm too busy. And, and then, and then it kind of went out my head again and then it came back and it was actually in. The first lockdown in 2020 that I really looked at it because I couldn't sit still, like I couldn't go to work and I couldn't sit still. And that was it. I was like, I need to do something. I need to learn something or I need to do something. And that's when I became a journal therapist. That's when I did my course. Okay. Um, and I've used it religiously ever since then because I learned so much on that course. The psychological connections and everything, it just blows my mind. it feels like. Wow. Um, but yeah, I was exactly the same as you. No time. There's never any time for this. And now I journal, in a morning and the evening. I do it twice a day. My evening journal is three minutes that. three minutes before bed, on a, a completely clean sheet of paper. Nothing on the, I used to do it with prompts when I first started cause I found that easier. Basically answering a question. But basically now I'll just dump down on in three minutes and I'll just give myself a page and say, write, write whatever comes to your mind. And then, and that's it. I turn it off and go to sleep. So. Hmm.

And I, and it is really, it is interesting cuz while listening to you, I'm sort of, I'm getting all these little thoughts popping into my head. So one of the thoughts that popped into my head there was the temptation to, instead of using it as a journal, to then go, oh, I must remember to do this. Or I must remember to, and sort of it's handing into a bit of a to-do list, And I'm guessing that you need to resist the urge to, to do that, or is, or would that be okay?

Um, there's, there's actually various types of journal. So you, you can have like goal journals, reflective journals, dream journals, You can have creative journals, so you can have all sorts of different types and dependence on what you're looking for. What it is that you, you're wanting to use it for. You could have a to-do list, I sometimes use a a to-do list, I suppose, as part of a journal, cuz it's a way of me just getting everything out of my head, and down onto a piece of paper because then I feel like I can close my mind down a little bit. So I might add a to-do list, in my evening journal, but I know that because I know me well. So a to-do list, you've gotta be careful at what point you do it, because for some people, that will spark their mind into action and they'll want to start attacking that to-do list. For me, it's a way of putting things on a piece of paper so that they're not then playing in my mind why I'm trying to go to sleep. Once I've written them down, I'm able to go, right, it's outta your head now. Shut that off and you can deal with it tomorrow because it's all on the paper. And that paper will still be there in the morning. And then I'll attack it, the day after or what have you. So I think it is having that, if you're gonna use a to-do list as part of your journal, I think it's definitely something to be mindful of, of yourself. You have your own awareness and kind of know what impact that to-do list is gonna have. Because for, I know for a lot of people, a to-do list can be overwhelming. And then for other people like myself, I love nothing more than making a list and ticking boxes when I've done it. Cause it's like, yes, go me I've just ticked five boxes, I can sort of relate to both sides of it cause I've done both sides of it. But yeah, I think it's a bit of a self-awareness one. That one as well that you'd have to bring into it.

I think I can feel the urge to be like, no, I don't want to do in, if I'm gonna do a journal, I think I would need to have me to-do list by the side of me. So if something came up, I could bung it on

and Yeah. Separate

and separate it because I think otherwise. Yeah, I can feel that. Mm, yeah. So I sort of, I took that off track a little bit really, didn't I?

Mm-hmm.

sorry, I'm just interested. Yeah, because, because like I said, I've done it for two days. And then, um, oh yeah, I haven't done that. Two days later I was like, oh, I should have done that. So what's the benefits of sort of like journaling in general, I suppose, because we're gonna talk about your book in a little while, but what are the benefits for journaling?

Your key benefits really is problem solving, organizing your thoughts and. Getting yourself to a perspective where it's almost, once you really get into journaling, there's been times where I've written on, I've written and I'm writing and writing and writing and writing and writing, and then I'll read back and I'll go, wow, did I really write that? it's almost like you, you are brain is kind of, cuz you, obviously you've got your left and your right side of your. And you're left's doing all your problem solving and your right's, doing all your creative stuff. So journaling will allow you to do either. So it depends on what it is that you're looking for really from it. But some of the biggest benefits from it is your reflection, because then that's where your growth comes from. You know, so when you are, you are doing something or you are in something, when you are in that. You're not able to view yourself from an outside perspective because you're in it and you're doing it, so there's no reflection there. There isn't room for it because you're in the action. and your brain can't deal with the action and the reflection of the action at the same time. So quite often when, because we're human and this is what we do, and we don't have time, like Kev said, that we get so involved in the action and we move from that action and we move to the next action, and then we move to the next action and we move to the next action. And before you know it, you've not reflected on any of those things that you've done throughout the day, the week, or what have you. And actually the action can become ineffective if it's an ongoing action that you're gonna try and achieve. So for me, the biggest thing is being able to, to reflect and then grow from that because you soon work out and you quickly work out where your problems are, and then you can move on to then how do I solve this, and where do I go? Then you can use your journal as a goal setter. So you can then set your goals based on your reflection then, so that you can move on. I think the, what I've got, one of my favorite quotes now I'm gonna have to try and remember. This, is from a guy called Peter Drucker. He's like a, a business, entrepreneur type of guy, but he is, he does a lot of education stuff as well. And his quote was, this is gonna, I'm gonna how am I gonna get this right? follow effective action with quiet reflection from that quiet reflection will come even more effective. Action.

Well done.

Yes. I dunno where that come from, but it was the, um, it's cuz it's one of my favorite quotes, but it, it really resonated with me that because. if you don't have that reflection, how do you grow on the action? Like how do you improve that or make that better, or go about setting your goals? If it is like a goal setting or a focus on that, and without that quiet reflection of it of, you know, what I've achieved, what have I achieved so far? What is it that I'm not achieving, or what do I need to do better at? How do you then create more effective action? Otherwise, you kind of just go back into the same action. Repeat without it sort of moving forward or it will, but a bit slower maybe.

And that's what that. Like to me, when you were talking about it, it feels like it's something that helps get you unstuck, gets you off repeat. Would that be right?

yeah. Yeah, I would, yeah, definitely agree with that. It, it gets you out of that cycle of just repeating patterns, really. I mean, that's been a big thing for me cuz as much as I've, I've been a journal therapist since 2020 now, and it's part of my life every day. This sort of last six months has been really hard for me. So I've had a lot of stuff going on and I was definitely stuck in cycles and I think I've got myself that stuck in the cycle and the action and I hadn't, I've made myself busy. So even though I was doing the journal, the busyness was a distraction. So even though I was still doing the journaling, my brain or eye was blocking me journaling about being stuck in that cycle. So if you journaling about your cycles and you, you've got that awareness of it, and then you start to journal it, that's when you can start to unpick it. And that's what I've been doing for the last six months, is I'm picking that cycle and finding out, you know, what's going on. And I'm not out of it yet. By far I'm not. But I've got the awareness of it, and I know now you know, what I'm doing and, and how I'm gonna sort of change that for myself, going forward. But yeah, I, I think it's, it's just one of those things where if. Reflect on yourself with anything. You know, it can literally be what's going on at home. It can be what's going on at work. It can just literally be your, your health, your wellbeing, that type of thing. Um, which is what I mainly journal on these days personally, to, to sort of move forward with things. So yeah, I just love it. I just absolutely love it.

And I can tell that by the way, your face lights up when you talk about it. It's like

love.

So I suppose this might be a perfect time then

Mm-hmm.

to talk about your book.

Okay.

So what was the purpose of, I've got it in front of me. It's called The Learner Driver Log book.

It is,

Your journal to Driving Success.

it is.

What was the purpose, I suppose, of writing this?

I think the, the purpose came directly off the back of me doing my journal therapy course. So once I got that qualification, it had been something that was in my mind for quite a while to to write a book for learner drivers that was different. Because most of the books out there would be your publications and they'd be textbooks. So a lot of sort of weighty information about this and that. And, you know, you, you might recommend them to your learners or promote them on your social media or what have you because the, the, you know, they're obviously very relevant and they're very good books, but not everybody's a book reader. I am, but not everybody's a book reader. I'm definitely a book reader. But, not everybody processes information that way. When there's an industry, we moved over to being more sort of client focused and client centered, I. Wanted to come up with something that could be used alongside driving lessons that would allow a learner or, or a newly qualifier or a driver, any, anybody really could use it to, to be able to kind of come out of the action, come out of the driving lesson, and be in that quiet reflection. Be in that moment of quiet reflection afterwards. Because as you know, Kev, we, but you know, you're in a driving lesson. And it's action after action, after action, after action, you're in a moving classroom so that that learner is dealing with one action after another, after another, after another. And we, we may pull over and we may take a break and reflect there and then on something that's just happened or what we wanna do next, if it's a goal focus or something like that. But you are then quickly into another action. Because as quickly as they process dealing with the roundabout that they, that they've just done, then we're now on dual carriageway and that's a different action that they've gotta process. And then all of a sudden we might have sort of touched on a bit of reflection from the roundabout, but now you're on a dual carriageway. The reflection from the roundabouts gone. Because you're now, they're now in another action and they're now having to deal with that action. So when you've done even just a 60 minute driving lesson, that's compiled of various actions all piled up on top of each other, and then by the time you get to the end, the chances are they're not remembering the first 10 minute action, whatever actions happened in the first 10 minutes on their drive lesson or what have you, because they've all stacked on top of each other throughout the hour. So the idea with it was, I think at first it was to help people sort of structure and organize their driving lessons for themselves. So not having to be structured and organized on their actual driving lesson, but be able to kind of come out of the lesson, reflect on what they've done on that lesson, really think about what the progress is and what it is that they're wanting from the next one so that when they go into the next one, Rather than having to have that, that conversation with their instructor at the beginning, even though that would still happen, they would be sort of better prepared for, well, actually after I've reflected on that last week, I wanna have a do it this or this or this, or I wanna speak to you about this because that now I've processed it, I'm not sure about it. Or now as I, that I'm actually better equipped to handle that now. And it's, it's more about empowerment. I guess. That was the, the thing. It was about empowerment for, for the learner driver really. And giving them something, a tool that could be used outside of being in that, that lesson with their instructor and continue that sort of client centered. Thing and to sort of realize for themselves that they are their own learner. They are themselves, and how they're gonna learn and how they're gonna process this situation isn't the same as their mate at college or isn't the same as the person that they work with. It's allowing them to realize that they're on their own learning journey and they can process it however they want to, you know, whatever they wanna do.

I mean, I, I love it and I think it's great, but I also think it's, you know, like you said, it's something outside of that driving lesson.

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, you, you have the, the normal driving lesson. We might give them homework or something, but the learning can continue and because they've got it there in front of 'em, they can use it two days after. They can reflect on it, an hour before their lesson, whatever it may be. And it's personal to them, isn't.

Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. I mean, you know, I have people that'll question like, do learners do this? And I'm like all of them. No, absolutely not. You know, because again, because we're human, we're all individual. Um, you know, there's gonna be some people that are like me that will take this book and they'll run and they'll get every colored pen that they've got in the world and they'll, you know, they'll fill every page with everything that they can fill. That would definitely be what I would be doing. You know, my inner teenage girl is definitely cried out when it comes to that, but, And then there's gonna be people. It's just not for them, you know? And completely recognize the fact that I am not gonna provide this book to every learner driver out there. But I 100% know that the ones that take it and enjoy it, definitely feel the benefit of it. And it definitely improves what they do with the lessons, the test, and beyond. So, you know, that's what makes the difference.

And I think it's, you mentioned they're the, the driving journey and that continues, doesn't it? So very much like yourself, who has 2020 and you've carried on journaling,

Yeah,

would be something that they would carry on when they're driving after post posttest, isn't it?

yeah, absolutely. I mean, the whole, when I was writing the book, I was very mindful of it not being a tool that was used just for lessons and then sort of not used again. You know, very careful with selecting, pages and questions. That was, I mean, there, there is a whole section actually about post test. So after they've passed the test so that they can, they can continue to sort of use it afterwards anyway. But even the questions that are asked, in the, what would be the earlier stages of their learning when they first start out on those pages when it comes to sort of reflection and, there's lots of mind map pages and, and goal setting pages. I was quite mindful of making sure that those pages could be used for just driving, not just for learning to drive so that if people wanted to kind of go, well, yeah, I've passed the test, but. Actually, I'm not quite sure about that motorway drive down to Nana's house. That's two hours away now. So I, I wanna sort of just get a couple of these things outta my head and, and have a little right about it and just see where my worries are so I can go about, you know, making sure that I feel more confident and happy about that drive, you know, that I've never done before or that I'm not sure of. So yeah, I was quite mindful of making sure that this was something that could be picked up. And at any point really in, in anybody's driving journey. So yeah, I love it even though it is mine.

When we had an episode talking about reflection and how important reflection is. And I think you've picked up on both sides of what we talked about in our reflection episode, which is that there's the reflection on your driving from a goal setting point of view, a sort of like, where am I? what do I need to improve? What do I need to research, find out more about? So it works really well from that checking in with where you are, checking in with what you need to do next, and being in the driving mindset so that lessons aren't the only time when you think about driving. Because if you can be thinking about driving in between lessons, then you're gonna have a much better result. But that also incorporates, like you say, that re that journal in that reflecting, getting everything down on paper so that you can work out where are my worries? Why am I nervous, why am I anxious? Trying to pinpoint exactly. Speak about that journey down to Nana's two hours away. I is probably not the whole journey. Journaling about it is that that real way of pinpointing exactly the nub of the problem. Cuz then you know what to work on.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, for me, no matter what I mean, outside of driving, what, no matter what you're doing, everything that you are doing, the decisions, um, subconscious a lot of the time, and it's coming from that emotions and feelings point of view. So you've got, Your thoughts and your feelings are going on, and that's then massively impacting the behavior of how you then approach or deal with something. If you've got this underlying feeling or emotion of nerves or what have you and you can't figure out where that feeling's coming from, or you choose not to figure out where that that feeling's coming from. You go and do that full two hour drive with that emotion going on when actually you was only feeling a bit anxious and nervous about following the road sign off a particular roundabout. So for what was one junction that you was feeling particularly nervous about? Cause you know it's quite a busy one or whatever it might be, has now manifested into you now being nervous for the full two hour journeys and. That then reflects and impacts your behavior or how you are then gonna drive the car down to Nana's and how safe that's gonna be or how you are gonna feel about doing that. And it was all for one junction. So you know, if you can journal about where that feeling is coming from and you can work through it a little bit and it might literally just take you five minutes to do a quick mind map and that's it. You've got the answer and you're going right, okay. Actually this isn't about the two hour journey Ns, this is about that junction. I don't like that junction. I don't like what people say about that junction. We've got a particular roundabout here and the amount of learners that are going, oh, we don't wanna go to that roundabout. And we've not been there yet. And they're like, I don't wanna go there. I don't like that roundabout. And I'm like, okay, we've not been to that roundabout, so why don't we like that roundabout? And it, and it's just from hearsay of other people who don't like that roundabout and then all of a sudden, the full two hour session that we've done on the learning to drive. Because we knew that that roundabout was gonna be tackled stake. It's part of our goal setting has now disrupted the full two hours because the feeling that, one feeling around that one roundabout has impacted the behavior for two hours. And if we can kind of get to the root of it quicker and pull it out and lock at it on its own and go, right, okay, what is this and what am I dealing with here? And then turn it around and put it back in. All of a sudden you've transformed that journey to nanos, or you've transformed that two hour driving lesson into something that's a much more productive and effective, and I think that's what the important part is, really.

And, and that's it. If you can start it earlier, when you first start driving, even just before driving, I'm thinking, it gives you a heads up on potentially what you are gonna be finding easy or, you know, you probably gonna enjoy that bit and bits that you, you're gonna find a little bit more harder or stressful. And, but then you are working towards that. If you start early, the journey down to n is if you start two weeks before you are getting everything out of your head, uh, the, the mind dumping as it's, as you've said earlier. And I think that's great and I think more people should do that. It's an interesting thought cuz journaling for driving, it's, it's, it's totally new, isn't it? I think it's,

Yeah, it is, and I think it's just, it's applying a very proven technique, that can quite literally work for anything. And just applying it to the thing that you need it for at the time. In this case, we're talking about learning to drive or driving in general, we're just applying a, a proven technique to say this works, and try it, you know, give it a go. See what it's like for you. Um, And like I said earlier, the best part about it is the fact that there is no reels to it. So it doesn't have to be structured. It doesn't have to be a big deal. It doesn't have to be something where you go, I've gotta fill this journal out this week. It's not gotta be that stressful, it's gotta be actually thinking about what happened on my driving lesson on Tuesday. I'm not. Sure about that. I'm just gonna make a few notes on it, and it could literally just simply be a few notes of what pops into your mind about that particular thing or about that particular drive that you're not happy about. I mean, some, somebody actually, used my own techniques on me, only about three weeks ago. I was out with a A P D I and we was talking about how everybody's an individual and we was talking about building rapport and things like that, and we was chatting about the, the learning styles came into it and how everybody's got different learning styles. And we got on the topic of journaling, as we do. And I said, journaling's a really great way of actually finding out what your learning style is. You know, a lot of people don't know what it is and if, again, if we can find that information from within ourselves. Cause everybody has got. The answer that they need within themselves, whether they choose to act on it or not. I mean, I'm definitely the, uh, the queen of not acting on things sometimes. But I'm getting better. I'm getting better. I processed it in my head. I've just gotta take the action.

Have you ever tried journaling?

actually I have fun enough Yeah, she, she kind of, we, we was talking about, using satin nav on driving lessons at, or post post-test and how it's there to create a distraction. Really, it's not there for them following the satin nav. It's not there for, for whether they can navigate themselves, before or after test. But, and I said to her, you know, to be fair, I said, if you put me in a, a major city center, I am born and bred in a small town, and I'm right in the middle of Manchester and Liverpool, so I'm literally 20 minutes from one and 30 minutes from the other, but I hate driving into the city. Hate it. And I don't know why I haven't got a clue, but if I've got the satin nav on and am in a city center and somebody starts talking to me or like, well, beside that person who talks to me at that point like, I need to concentrate on one of these that turns the radio down so I can concentrate more. And one are those people. And she said, have you ever tried journaling? I was like, she's got me here. I did a little Why you do that? Ever thought? I was like, no, I haven't actually. Maybe I should

You have to come back on and tell us how you get on with that journaling.

yeah,

I love it. I love.

It's just, I know I keep coming back to the fact that there's no rules, but I think that's, cuz maybe I don't like rules. Maybe I should journal on that too. But yeah, I think anybody can do this. Anybody, anybody, you know, nobody's gonna spell check it. Nobody's gonna check to make sure you've put a, a full stop in the right place or you've written the correct word in the correct place because there is no right or wrong. So it's your. It's completely yours. There's no judgment from anybody cuz the only person who's reading it is yourself unless you choose to share it with somebody, obviously. It is purely just an observation of yourself and your situation. So you know, being able to then understand yourself, your thoughts, your feelings, you can then transform your behavior and then how you then impact. That learning journey or you know, whatever it is that you're, you're looking to use journaling for?

And that's it. It doesn't have to be in a particular style, like you said earlier. It can be a blank bit of paper and just. Even draw. I've seen some fantastic journals, um, that people have done and it's just like, you are really artistic and drawing and stuff like that. And then others are like bullet points.

yeah.

And then some are just like, it's like I can't even read it, you know, let alone what's going on. And it's just a mismatch of stuff, but it's not for me to understand it.

Well, this is it because there's, there's all sorts of different ways that you will. Or can journal. And it's interesting that you picked up there on the sort of the creative and the, the to-do list, the sort of more structured and organized, because that's the, that's each two sides of the brain.

Mm.

But the, there was a, a study done, um, by, do I wanna be quoted on this? Uh, James Penn Baker, I think his name was, it might be Baker or Barker, I'm not sure. Penn Baker Barker. And he, he did a massive study into journaling that that's all he did was study journaling, and he was studying the impacts on your brain. So they took actual images of people's brains and then asked them to journal about a particular, they'd ask the person what they was gonna, what they wanted to achieve from journaling, what was the goal with it. And then they, took photographs of the brain. Did the brain scans. Then they set them off journaling for different sets of times. So different groups would have say, a month of journaling. Some did six and so on, and then they then scanned again at the end. And the images was unbelievable to see how people's brains had changed and how they was then processing stuff because. We live quite left side, so we live quite like, quite sort of structured and organized and things happen at this time and then this happens at this time and and so on. And so when people first start journaling, they tend to structure themselves that way. It's a to-do list or it's a list of things or it's quite sort of orderly, um, in how they do go about journaling and. Quite often people will need a journal prompt to get going as well. So they're not quite, they might get the pen in the paper, but they're not quite sure what they wanna put on it. So they might look for a prompt with regard to a journal question or something like that. And what that then does is when your brain starts to process that and start someone unpick it is, it actually activates the right side, your creative side, so you naturally become more creative. But the creative side of us is the side of uss That makes them more. I'm quite a spiritual person, so this might come across as a sort of a spiritual saying really. But you then, once you're in your creative side, you are able to make decisions that are more for your higher self, for your higher purpose. Whereas when we stay on the left side and we say structured, we stay in society's box, if you like, for a want of a better word. And we make decisions based on what we think other people might want or what other people are expecting of us. And you know, when it comes to driving, we might not need to be creative in what we're doing. But what we do need to do is be able to do the things that work for us. So, for example, somebody who's gonna drive to Nana's for two hours after they've passed the test, if they stay left sided and structured, they'll quite often be. Driven by, I'll go that way because my dad said that's the best way, even though I don't feel that that's the best way for me, but dad said it is. So I'll go that way. And then that then heightens that emotion, then feelings that anxiety, and that makes the journey worse. Or it adds to it. Whereas if we kind of journal on it and pick it out and pull out the bits that we wanna pull out and why, why that anxiety's there, we then kick in this creative side and go, actually, I've got options here. I don't need to go the way Dad said. I don't need to say that that's the route I'm gonna take, because actually I've got options. And that option for me means I can avoid that roundabout that I don't wanna go to, and I'll go that way. You know, it's not gonna really take me that much longer or what have you. But all of a, all of a sudden you're managing them feelings and emotions better because you're going for your higher purpose, you're going for that reason, and that's where your creative side kicks in. So it's interesting that you picked up on people's journals are sometimes structured and sometimes are more creative. Depends on whether they working on the left or the right.

that's brilliant. Well, I know which one mine is. Mine's a blank bit of paper still. Well, I've had lots of signs ever since we asked you to come on. It's just come up again and again and again. Everywhere you know how certain things that are on your mind, you keep spotting them then don't you? And I, I've had a notebook on the shelf that I bought for journaling. Oh, it's gotta be four or five years ago. So that's now come off the shelf. It's come out of its wrapper. I've taken everything off of it, so, and I've flicked open the pages, so now there's no excuse not to use it.

Be very interested to see how you get over that. Tracy, I would be very interested to see in a month's time what you've, uh, what you've found of journaling.

well, I've only used it before when I've been on my mindfulness training courses and mindfulness retreats and things, so I've always, it's sort of like, it's always been part of my mindfulness training and mindfulness practices, but I've never used it as a,

You can.

practice. Mm-hmm.

there's, there's, um, so there's, there's a very loose mindfulness task in the learner driver log. Um, again, I'm a massive advocate for mindfulness as well, and you can use journaling for mindfulness as well. In the learner driver logbook, it's the coloring pages. So there's a section that's got coloring pages, which is dedicated to road signs, so people are learning the road signs, but again, there's a link between being mindful about something and being involved in the task. Is creating better paths in the brain to actually retain the information and keep that information in. So as much as in the learner driver logbook, it's just a coloring book and it's a bit of fun. There's a mindful coloring is a very mindful task. You know, when you're coloring in, you're just thinking about that task. You're not necessarily, your brain's not wandering off at all the things. So as they're coloring in, It is all a bit of fun, but they're actually absorbing a lot of information about what that sign means, what it means for my theory. How do I know what this sign means? Do I know how I'm gonna use this? You know, if I had to go and find the answers to what this sign is, how does this affect my driving lessons? How does this affect me driving? If I send this sign, how would I deal with it? But if you was gonna do it from, and you could also do it, um, from a another mindful perspective of using the mind maps and using your senses. So from a driving perspective, if you've had a particular drive and you thought I could have done better there, or, I, I'm really feeling quite anxious about that scenario that happened earlier today or what have you. And just by going through the five sense, Your process. So all you're simply saying to yourself is at the time, what could I see at the time? What could I smell at the time? What can I taste? What at the time, what could I hear at the time? What I could I touch? And you literally go in and you're bringing your whole awareness to that one moment and it stops you from can kind of going off into. All of the other stuff around it because all of a sudden what was just one small issue has now manifested itself into this massive anxiety of like that one little tiny thing went wrong, but it's now manifested into, oh my God, I can't ever do that again. And if you can bring yourself. Back to your five senses at that time. I actually used this on driving lessons. a piece of paper and a pen. If they've not got a, a log book with them and they've got particular anxious or stressed about something on the lesson, pull over some, whether it's safe, and to bring them back to it. Literally go through your five sentences, write 'em down on a piece of paper, and then when the lesson's over. I want you to reflect on that. I want you to reflect on how that made you feel at the time. It's a great way of using a journal if you, especially if you're new to it, it's an easy technique.

Yeah, definitely. Using the senses is one we talk about a lot, isn't it? It's just such a great way to get people to reset, get them out of their thoughts.

yeah.

And get them into the present moment and basically, am I safe right now? when your, your mind and your body can acknowledge that right now in this moment I'm safe. That allows that all of those anxiety feelings just to dissipate a little bit. Cause it's like, no, it's fine. I'm safe. And yeah, working around the senses is a brilliant way of doing it. Definitely. So it sounds like journeying is definitely for drivers.

Hundred percent,

Yeah. you've sold me. You've sold me. Yeah. Great. I mean it's, it's reflection, it's problem solving. It's working out where the worries are coming from. It's consolidating your learning. It's helping you be mindful and it's using both sides of the brain left and right it sounds like a winner all round.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It is.

So where can we find this book?

So you can find me in several places, So we're on the usual social media, Instagram, Facebook, and you'll find us at the Learner Driver logbook. We also have a website which is www.thelearnerdriverlogbook.code.uk.

And we'll put all that information in the show notes, ready for people to just go, I need that. And they can just click the link and then off they go.

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So they can click the link. It can be ordered through, um, Amazon Direct as well. They can find it on Amazon Direct if they don't wanna go through the website, but either is as effective. It gets, they're just the same.

Fantastic. Yeah, brilliant. And it sounds like a really great way for anyone who in the new year is deciding they wanna tackle driving as an issue, then that's gonna be a great support to it. It sounds, it doesn't it and it's something that they can use. They don't have to drive, they can just use this before they even start driving. See if they're considering in the new year, starting again. This might be the perfect starting point, aren't it?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, the people that, that come to us that have had lessons previously and give up because they was nervous or anxious and things, um, or are people that's just generally feeling anxious and nervous about even beginning because they've never done it before and they don't know, where to even begin with it. It's a great way of them starting to sort of already start to process their thoughts and feelings around it all because once. Kind of process that and dealt with that a little bit. They're already on, on that, you know, that better foot to, to a great learning journey and beyond and beyond.

Brilliant. Lovely. I've got no other questions. I'm Oh, I have one that we do ask. Oh yes, yes. So how could I forget before we finish Emma Owen, we didn't. Warn you about this either. Sorry, I did remember the recording button though, so I'm all with that. You're alright. Cast your mind back to when you were a learner driver,

Okay,

what did you find the most difficult about learning to drive?

now you're asking me to go back a long way here. Tracy It's a long,

It's, it's not that long

oh, it's Kevin. It's. Do you know what, and I don't know whether I kind of registered this at the time, but I certainly do now and I don't know that that's because of all my sort of learning and, and obviously for being an instructor for so long. But my most difficult thing was actually unpicking learnt behavior. That was actually my most difficult thing when I was learning to drive. I had grown up with both my parents driving, so I'd never not been in a car. I was in a car daily. And I hope my dad's not listening to this, but he probably would be, um, He, let's say, isn't the best driver and I had a lot of bad habits before I even started. And it was just from copying cuz I thought that's how it was done. So that was my biggest thing was actually unpicking some load behavior from, from my parents.

Which I'm sure actually is something that lots of driving instructors would recognize in their students. Kev, is that something you see a lot as well? It's, I asked the question, who's the best driver? Mum or dad?

Hmm. Yeah, it's a good question. Actually. It is a good question. One for the one for a journal that

Yeah.

It is. I mean, it, it really did. When I was learning to drive, it really did cause me a lot of problems because I was doing these things because I thought that was what it was, but it was obviously causing me complications in my learning then. And then I became anxious about it because I wasn't getting it right. And, you know, and I, I was frustrated because I'm thinking, I can't understand why I'm not getting this right. You know, it's, and that, obviously this was well before any client-centered stuff was, was, was about, but um, yeah, so that was definitely mine. Sorry, dad

I can almost isolate saying, dad, can you show me again how to do this

me, me and my dad. I vividly remember my dad saying, well, ensure your mom's car and I'll take you out in between lessons. We went once that was like, that was it. And it was like, I wanna look back now. Worry took me. I was like, oh my God, I cannot believe you took me there, Honest to God.

So I think that's actually a really good point for people listening in to have to think about are there any learnt behaviors, things that they've seen. From, you know, from a child. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Definitely playing into why they might be having difficulties now, so yeah, I think that's, that's great. It's a really good one to think about and a good one to journal about. I think. That's brilliant. Yeah. Lovely, Emma, thank you so much.

you're very welcome. Thanks for having me.

Brilliant. Yep. Thank you very much.

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